How to measure rod bearing oil clearance for ANY engine. Pontiac short block re-build, Part 3
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- Опубликовано: 20 май 2021
- Time to figure out our Rod Bearing Oil Clearance. This is something you have to be aware of when building your short block. It doesn't matter what engine you have, it's the same process. If you missed it, check out the tear down episode... the bearings were toast! In this episode, "How to measure rod bearing oil clearance for ANY engine. Pontiac short block re-build, Part 3" We get to measure for oil clearance, and compare my measurements with a professional engine builders results. Lots to learn in this one. Including how to use a bore dial gauge (or dial bore gauge), and micrometers. Special thanks to David Butler @butlerperformancepontiac for educating me on the proper Pontiac Bearing Clearances. If you need to source anything for your Pontiac mill, be sure to hit up www.butlerperformance.com Follow along with the Pontiac 400 (Now a 470) engine build, by subscribing below;
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This channel is all about muscle car how to's and what to watch out for, when working on your own car. Also fresh off of installing a New TREMEC TKX from Silver Sport Transmissions, and a FiTech fuel injection system. Subscribe to watch more projects on this built, not bought, 1969 Pontiac GTO.
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Part's and/or supplies used in this video;
Anytime Tools Premium Outside Micrometer Set 0-4"/0.0001" Precision Machinist Tool w/Carbide Tips
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...
HFS (R) Dial Indicator Bore Gage .0005" Gauge (2"-6" range)
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...
Speed Pro 87200CH - Speed-Pro Competition Series Rod Bearings (Keep in mind these are Big Block Chevy Bearings, which are used on some Pontiac Stroker kits)
www.summitracing.com/parts/sl...
Speed Pro 87200CH1 - Speed-Pro Competition Series Rod Bearings UNDERSIZED (Keep in mind these are Big Block Chevy Bearings, which are used on some Pontiac Stroker kits)
www.summitracing.com/parts/sl...
Here's the latest Walk Around of the GTO, filmed by RestoMods.com • A Walk Around of my "B...
Playlists of interest;
Hydraulic Clutch and Tremec TKO/TKX install;
• TREMEC (T56/TKO/TKX) I...
FiTech Fuel Injection Install;
• Fuel Injection Convers...
Here's the original Hydraulic Roller Lifter Fail Inspection, and process:
• Something is still WRO...
Here's the Official Part 1, where Mike starts the preparation of Engine removal
• Pontiac V8 Camshaft Re...
Here's the start of the TREMEC installation, • How to install a Wilwo...
Enjoy, and ask questions by leaving a comment below... See you on the other side!
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Just a quick piece of advice, place some felt in the v grooves of your wood blocks to keep from scoring those freshly polished journals... 😉
Agreed. I didn't mention I sanded those V's down to 800 grit, and wet sanded with WD-40, then covered them in oil. They won't score. :) Good tip for those that don't want to polish the V blocks.. .ha, ha.. Thanks for the comment!
@@FastMonty Nice, Ive seen quite few guys over the years forget that and scratch up a freshly cut crank. Good tip on polishing it with wd... 😉
I made a set about 25 yrs ago, still usin them...lol
@@sierraridgereaper Awesome to hear! (I hope to never use mine again... ha, ha...) See ya!
Great video! I'm in San Diego and I am having Greg @ Total Performance due all my blueprintint!
Where are you located?
Man, Monty, these videos are great. Thanks so much for making them. Great job with the crank jokes too :-)
Thanks Troy! And thanks for finding my sense of humor... not many people do. Ha, ha... Next week's video is more insane. Enjoy!
This is where OCD comes in handy! Vintage Starrett/Brown & Sharp/ Mitutoyo measuring tools are very reasonable on fleabay, work great and last. Nice work!
Ha! Aint that the truth. Good tip about Fleabay, I typically don't buy complex parts and tools on there due to the lack of return policies. But, definitely agree you could get a good deal. Thanks for the comment!
great topic & great video content put together here, well done Monty, keep it up !
Thanks Brother! Much appreciated!
Like always interesting stuff Monty. I learned something today
Thanks Brother! Next week's is even crazier... I learned more than I thought I could, ha, ha... Thanks for the comment!
Planning a vw 1.8 awp engine build. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. It's going to come in handy.
New sub here.
Looking forward to the next episode.
Thanks Joe! Welcome to the FMG family. Glad I could help... good luck on your build!
"Got my crank polished" 😆
Yes! At least once a week! Ha, ha...
you cannot shave down the caps on the rods of breakaway rod caps. Only the smooth ends or flat ends can be done. You never mentioned "bearing crush" either. That is important in a bearing cap if the bearing is longer than it should be and proper otherwise one can sand down the crush on the bearing. All bearings need a certain amount of "crush" to hold them tight and keep them from spinning in the rods. Otherwise you can bugger up the inside of a spun rod by hitting the race with a point hammering it to raise the metal some and then file it down or sand it down some and fill back with some JB weld under the bearing if the spun is really bad and you do not want to break the whole engine down with head off. I have done this before and never had any problems if done right.
Yup, definitely more than one way to skin the cat, right? Love the fix you mentioned. Thanks!
I am going to be utilizing your vids in the near future. Got a W72 to work with.
Great to hear! Welcome to the FMG family... any questions, just ask. Have fun!
Thats always the key to crank polishing, finding someone good at it... Not everyone can pull it off properly.
Agreed! I had asked several engine builders if they grind in house, etc... they all referred me to the same guy. That's how I knew who to use... ha, ha... thanks for the comment!
Be sure to subscribe for more ... click here; ruclips.net/user/fastmontysgarage Also be sure to source your Pontiac engine parts from @Butler Performance , they have everything you need!
Good job bro
Subscribing
Thanks, Brother! Don't be shy, I respond to all comments. See ya!
Dave Arce is awesome!!
I learned a lot that day. Ha ha.
It does but there comes a point where enough is to much and was told that .060 is it.
Was just in a conversation on GTO forum of a guy who just finished a 72 resto what a beautiful car, its maybe the most beautiful car in and out Ive ever seen he went way over the top.
Sorry Dan, that's just not true. You don't have to take it from me either... call an expert. And, if you haven't guessed who my Pontiac expert is, by what I wear in almost every video, it's Butler Performance. That's who told me it's ok to proceed with 0.070" over. Thanks again for the concern... talk soon.
Might want to stamp both half’s of the rod
Are you referring to marking the caps and rods with the same journal number? Good idea... I didn't have to, as I keep all of the components bolted together. (Rod, bearing, and cap) Until they're ready for final install onto the crank. I like the idea, just incase you take multiple rods apart. Thanks!
Great video, I'm about to do this on my Olds stroker 535. I purchased the exact same tools as you have
a while back. Are you using a Scat crank and rod assembly? Also what is the displacement of your engine?
Awesome! I have an Eagle Forged Crank and Rods... my engine is a 470, not quite as huge as yours! ha, ha... have fun building that beast, just remember to take your time, especially when measuring the bearings. Can't wait to hear how it goes! See ya!
All my life i have heard and seen this work. .0005-.0007 clearance on any rod or main. If loose then the rod will eventually "knock."
you meant .005 to .007, right? Really depends on engine set up.
@@FastMonty no..0007-.0005 which is tens of thousanths.
@@thorthunder3227 yeah, way too tight for old engines.
Just curious most bearings have a slight groove down the center for oil travel ,and I noticed your were smooth with out a groove.
I've actually never seen a rod bearing with an oil groove... I've seen some Ford/Dodge bearings with a hole, but no groove. Are you sure you're not thinking of Main Bearings?
I just watched your push rod measurement looks like 9.050, but im not doing that more curious. I was told .060 is the max bore, guess not
That's my measurement, yes. 0.060" is the max recommended, with a factor of safety. I'm pushing the envelope, and would not go past 0.070" Hope that helps.
Hi Mike I have a couple of questions for you as I beleive your engine and mine are the same Pontiac 400 bored .060 over? And you have 4.25 crank length? So 1 do you have aluminum lifters, and 1.65? Im hearing nightmares about PRW aluminum lifters. And 2 do you know your pushrod length? I think you did adjustable, do you know what you ended up with, length wise. Thanks man keep up the good work and thanks for the T shirt.
Thanks for representing FMG! I'm now .070" over. (It was 0.060" over) You mean 1.65 rockers? Mine are Steel. Yes, I know my pushrod length. I'm not telling you what it is, because it's based off of my components. You need to get an adjustable push rod to measure it yourself, then order based off of that measurement. If you check out my video about it, I'd add an additional step and get a measuring spring. You have to remove a valve spring, and put the test spring in. Hope that makes sense. Thanks again...
Its just conversation, curious of a hobby, you must have sleeves in your cylinders? Or the walls are really thin?
No sleeves. On "thin blocks" you'd typically know you have a problem, when machining to 0.060". Since mine machined fine, and ran fine, at 0.060" No overheating, no leaks, etc... going an extra 0.005" on the wall thickness is not going to change anything. Hope that makes sense.
If the bearings are new do you still have to measure the clearance?
Yes, absolutely! all the bearings I'm using here are brand new.
OLÁ. Faltam diversos procedimentos. Não é tão simples assim. Sob olhar Técnico a aula é muito fraca. ABRAÇOS..
Thanks?
Is there any reason why you can't stamp the # on the rods.?
You mean with a rubber stamp? Of course you can. I didn't need to, because I'll be keeping all of the assemblies, with bearings, bolted together until I need to install them. Thanks!
tighter is better.
Not always. Depends on the engine
Doesn't mixing half bearings cause you to be out of round? I would think the difference is in sizes would cause a mismatch at the seams. Or am I thinking wrong. I've never done it before.
Good question... but, no. The bearing halves are identical to standard, except for the wall thickness change of + 0.0005" (Half a thousandth) So, the OD of two bearing halves put together, are identical to standard bearings. Hope that helps.
@@FastMonty That does make sense. I have a 66 Bonnie Convertible that I'm going to be bringing back to life I hope soon. Your videos have been a great help in the learning process. Based off the misshapen oil pan I'm expecting to find similar issues. Thanks!
@@pacoperkid13 Ha! You're welcome... good luck, and don't be shy with questions. Thanks again for the comment.
Did u just polish the crank or did it get resurfaced? Mine went .010 under and I ordered the subsequent .010 bearings. I verified with a micrometer. It sounds like it would have been easier for u to just have them to .010 under across the crank that way you weren’t trying to figure out using standard with undersize and all that? Also, are u still using plastigauge to verify?
Great questions... I actually discuss the whole 0.010" under trick in the next video concerning the Mains. My circumstance was a little different, as I took the crank to the polisher for an opinion and they said a light polish will be fine, and you'll be really close to my "standard" or 0.001" undersized. If it was worse, then yes, I'd have to measure the actual ID's of the undersized bearings, and have them target an undersized grind that would target the .0022" dimension, resulting in another trip to the polisher. (You typically can't just tell someone to take 0.010" off, and expect that 0.010" undersized bearings will give you the appropriate gap) And yes, I'll be using plastigage during the final assembly. The next video is going to blow your mind, because the PRO's that blueprinted my mains were WRONG. You'll see... always good to double check. Thanks for the comment!
Wow interesting. Thanks. Ya I took mine in and they said best to cut .010 across the board. I ordered the bearings but waiting on the rods to come back to double check everything. Great video. Good thing you’re checking. I suck at math and u seem to know what you’re doing and still had difficulty. I’ll try the best I can but idk if it’ll ever be perfect considering the error in gauges and what not.
@@Hayleyandmadisongrwm22 Yeah, it was an insane learning experience for me... the next video will help make the whole 0.010" undersized bearings make more sense. If you have any questions, when you get your hardware, shoot me an email.
Thanks brother!
what the clearance between ball bearing and race? Is that factory preset and no need to worry?
What ball bearing?
@@FastMonty tapered bearings for a boat trailer.
But even if they were say deep grove ball bearings, aren't all the clearances set at factory, especially for a specific application?
@@anthonyrochon3907 Yes they are, for roller, and ball bearings. This video is for Non-Ball bearing engine rebuilding. Thanks!
How much is too much? Trying to have a lot for a demo build
Not sure what you're referring to? Rod bearing Clearance? I'd guess that 0.002" above your engine's spec is close to too much.
@@FastMonty that was what I was referencing and thanks for the response. Never touched a motor but I want to try to build my own just so I can beat the piss out of it. From what I hear demo engine builders have big tolerances almost every to deal with excessive heat.
Ahhh, gotcha. I'd look up specs for your particular build, everything down to the oil pump, once you have a target it's pretty straight forward. Good luck!@@Legend_Killers_Incorperated
in bearing why you say clearnce became 0.00225 after putting bearing with 0.001 us >>> and saying undersized >>> should be oversized by 0.001 us in order to decrease clearnce from 0.00325 to 0.00225 ?
No. To decrease the gap, from .003 to .002, you need to decrease the overall diameter of the bearing opening, which is "Undersized". Good question, as it does get confusing at times. Understandably confusing because, the "undersized" bearing is thicker than a standard bearing, which would make you think its "oversized". clear as mud now, eh? Keep in mind, the bearing manufacturers are always referring to the end result measurement, not the thickness of the bearing itself, when referring to undersized, and oversized. Thanks for the comment!
@@FastMonty this means to decrease gap you will bring a bearing which is thicker by 0.001 mm to decrease the clearance gap
@@ehabradiology Almost... each bearing half is 0.0005" (One half Thousandth of an inch) thicker towards the Inside Diameter. So, when both "Undersized" bearing halves are used, it's a total diameter reduction of 0.001" Hope that helps!
@@FastMonty so under sized means thicker....waw
@@ehabradiology Yup! It's referring to the Inside Diameter of the bearing halves, when put together.
I have a RUclips channel as well, (Restaurant Rewind), and I appreciate your attention to detail and how well you communicate. Good stuff!
Thanks Troy... I'll have to check it out. As you know, it's more difficult that people think, trying to film and build (or make) something at the same time. Much appreciated!
Mike - I hate to bring this up, but Not So Fast, Monty (okay, perhaps you will not find this funny, but you will learn something if you read on....) I reviewed your videos on engine building in great detail. So I froze your video on the ACRE Enterprises Report sheet. There is a very gross error by ACRE on there. Take a look at your sheet. Here are the numbers: "Mahle Rod Bearing Thickness per Chart .1238" Connecting Rod Big End Diameter 2.3240". "Big End Diameter w/ Bearing 2.2020". THIS IS WRONG - IT'S NOT 2.2020", but 2.2002"! Transcription error I assume on ACRE's part. So, your real clearance, as measured by ACRE data, is 2.2002"- Crank Journal 2.1990" = 0.0012"!!!! , not 0.0030". Would love to hear both your and ACRE's comments. Also, can you please elaborate on how you determined sufficient bearing crush for your engine, in particular for the rods and bearing in question here? Let's just say I am in process of building a new engine - identical rods and bearings as you are using, and I have a negative crush situation - yep, the bearing do not fully seat due to insufficient interference of the bearing halves (the "crush" is missing). Without measuring crush, it's really hard to have confidence in your build - long-term durability, that is.
Almost Michael... the measurements from ACRE are "sort of correct" They're subtracting the thickness of the bearing from the ID of the Bore. That said, please check out the Main Bearing video I did after this one for really eye opening issues that I caught from ACRE. ruclips.net/video/5KANmG3owuY/видео.html As for crush, there should be some crush, don't really care how much it is... but, there better not be an air gap. :) Let me know how you fix that issue.
Mike - they provided the bearing thickness of the bearing on your sheet as 0.1238”. And the Big end diameter (w/o bearing) at 2.3240”. Take your calculator and subtract these two numbers. Result is 2.2002”, not the 2.2020” which they report. They made a simple math error, resulting an overstated clearance of 0.0030”, when it is, in fact, by calculation, 0.0012” clearance. Look at your sheet! I understand how their method, they did a simple subtraction wrong - go have a look!
@@michaelriddell9829 Please read it again... the Mahle bearing chart says the MAX thickness is .1238" BUT, at the end of that Notes paragraph it says Total FM Rod Bearing Thickness Measured .122 Looking at Connecting Rod chart ... Rod bore measured 2.3240 minus the total thickness of .122 = 2.2020 The rod bearing chart is correct. AND, matches what I measured myself, which is the point of this video... measure it yourself. Did you see my Main Bearing video yet? That video I find a massive error by ARCE. Thanks for scaring me. lol