00:00 Suggestions in loft conversion (what NOT TO do) 07:13 Discussing the progress for the last couple of days (some days didn't have chance to film unfortunately) :( 11:05 Loft conversion repair work (time lapse) 12:13 Discussing rafter re-fitment process in detail 13:30 Loft conversion repair work (time lapse)
It's important to recognize that the situation involving AN Carpentry is rooted in a specific context. AN Carpentry was contracted to rectify structural issues INDENTIFIED by a Building Engineer. Their involvement was not based on subjective assessments but rather on documented findings regarding the deficiencies in the roof's integrity. Moreover, AN Carpentry's role was to execute the proposed solution PROVIDED by a Structural Engineer, not to independently determine the course of action. It is essential to understand that their actions were guided by professional recommendations rather than personal judgments. Suggesting that AN Carpentry was hired solely based on arbitrary opinions or granted unchecked authority reflects a misunderstanding of the situation and the professional protocols involved.
Bolting through rafters using timber connectors is an acceptable method of supporting roof structure. We have plans from structural engineer and passed building control using that method. This method was also used in removal of trusses.
I would disagree as if you put timber at the angle it's not taking the weight but relying on fixing instead, it will want to slip off the timber, if you cut beard's mouth weight gets directed straight down!
Why would you bolt through the existing ceiling joists with the new floor joists? The whole point of a new floor is that it should be totally independent of the existing ceiling joists. Are you sure you know what you are doing?
Those where specifications of engineer at the time all we did was follow the instructions, but as you say, i have done jobs where floor joists are kept separate from sealing joist for the reason you mentioned.
We have a timber frame mid terrace house. There are no breeze blocks in between the houses, can you still build a loft with dormer. We have had some engineers saying without the original plans it’s a no go, some saying we need pad stones, it’s so confusing.
Hi trouble with timber is that it is difficult to calculate the load so hence why engineers say that to you as with drawing they would have some figures to look at, but without it's to risky. What is usually done in modern days with stud walls, if it needed to be as load bearing wall it get's boarded either with ply wood or OSB board, thickness required gets calculated by structural engineer and unfortunately without engineers calculations you will not know what size timber, board you need to use which will stop you again from getting it signed off.
At the beginning, 1:01. So it’s ok to birds mouth thin as that I’m trying to research mine for the future. And they are 4 x 2 rafters Is angling the supports a way also
I wasnted to ask what would be classed as a bargain on a 3 bed property? Weve been quoted 19.5k and said we dont need metal rafts even though its a modern w truss loft.
My advice get 3 independent quotes and ask for detailed brake down what is included, however 19.5 k sounds cheap, loft conversion are starting around £40 k and upwards depending on specifications etc.
Oooh, need to seal that opening under the eaves. A continuous open soffit under the eave will make terrible drafts in winter and impossible coolong in the summer. 😮😮😮
You should never bolt the new attic floor rafters to the ceiling rafters they should always be independent to each other so weight and movement on the converted attic floor has no bearing on the bedroom ceilings underneath. The new rafters should be set a half inch gap so they don't touch the plasterboard if they sag over time.
I agree that if you fit new joists alongside of the existing sealing joist the should be kept separated to prevent noise transfer , but in this case where they are cut of on one end there is not much you can do about that as they can’t be left floating unfixed as still taking weight of ceiling, whats left of original.
One day I plan to convert my attic into a living space. I find this video informative. But I still have few questions: Who is responsible for deciding how the wood structure will be built; Structural engineer or the contractor who will built it? Second question is that once things go wrong, does any one gets punished? Any fines made or restrictions on responsible person?
Hi. Structural engineer is responsible for steels un structure, timber size used etc, but also you need good architect who can provide you with detailed plans, as the biggest problems with loft conversions is condensation problems solving( the easiest is by having worm roof link here: jtcroofing.co.uk/news/warm-flat-roof-cold-flat-roof/), as there is no need for cross ventilation, which is needed with cold roof link here: www.buildingregs4plans.co.uk/guidance_flat_roof_types.php) if height allows, warm roof is better option, but you need to have enough height in your attic space, I would say about 2400 mm upwards as all layers insulation, osb are installed on top of the deck( flat roof) if your height is not sufficient then you will have to use cold roof construction, with plenty of cross ventilation to avoid build up in condensation. But all this will be subject to drawings, and dimensions you have in your property, as for who's responsible, trad men are responsible to build it to the specifications of architect drawings and use materials specified by structural engineer.
Tell me about it, not just that, new roof looked old as it was badly supported before tiles went on, and by the time we got to rectify things it was a bit too late unfortunately
Tell me why your new pad stone above the window is balanced on the window cloak on the left hand side. Why is it not more central. It does not have enough bearing on the left hand side. It’s wrong you need to redo it.
Hi Dave, you might of missed that we took on this job, after it was bogged, in ideal world many things would of been done differently if build correctly from day one, we where working along side with Building control at the time getting things rectified as best as they could of been at the time.
Yes you need steels and or flitch beams, (steel sandwiched between timbers) they are are taking load of the floor above and taking some load of the roof as there is stud wall ( dwarf wall) build under roof rafters around 900 mm height of the floor joists spreading some of the roof load on low bearing walls etc.
It's a perfectly reasonable question Rodger although it's plausibly a safe answer if one is either unsure of any complexities of building regulatory requirements regarding the attics structural configuration whether it's fink, queenpost, modified queenpost, howe, kingpost, pan etc etc. But as we both no doubt know in respect to building regulations it's primarily common sense mostly and should be very simple unless one has stumbled over local building regulations or isn't entirely sure on the essential building works being carried out properly hence the building regulatory requirement notice! Installing the steel RSJs is the first of the major structural works to be completed as one would expect before replacing and securing everything into place with the reinforced struts! Tbh at this point if I was a structural engineer then I would be absolutely mortified!
If it's a "ridge beam" it will be supporting the weight of the roof & should be made of something rather substantial & you'd need proper SE calculations if you're doing a proper job. However in this I'd guess it is simply a "ridge board", which is mainly there to fix the top of the rafters into among other things, although it should be a decent thickness & of sufficient depth to match the angle cut into the rafter tops. With a "ridge board" the weight of the roof is transferred downwards to the wall plate or whatever at the bottom so you'd need to do something like tie the bottom of the rafters into the ceiling joists etc to stop the rafters spreading & pushing out the walls. The guy in the video remarks on the fact they need to fit something to stop the spreading.
Why would old floor joist connect with new joist anyway? I never seen structural engineer pointing out on it, and they would definitely do if that is important. Same about rafters support. The video is rubbish, sorry
You clearly haven’t noticed that in case if ceiling joists are cut short and not resting on old wall plate either end and just balancing on load bearing walls in a middle of the building they have to be fixed, to make sure that part of the ceiling what’s still left is held up, and clearly you have no idea on how to build, before you comment do research.
I get your tryna save the customer money not having to rip the roof off and retile again but after removing those 7 rafters that's like 12²m of unfixed roofing battern and tile will cost the client more in the long run
We didn't remove all at the same time, we done one by one where possible and also we used props to take weight of the roof, otherwise it wouldn't be safe to do at all.
Amazing that somebody took this on without a clue about what they were doing! If it was the homeowner, they deserve what they get; if a 'builder', I hope they weren't paid! If this wasn't properly sorted by these guys, it would have been impossible to sell the house.
Must say i agree on this, unfortunately so called builder got quite a big chunk of money before he was sacked but not everything so we did our best of what we had available.
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00:00 Suggestions in loft conversion (what NOT TO do)
07:13 Discussing the progress for the last couple of days (some days didn't have chance to film unfortunately) :(
11:05 Loft conversion repair work (time lapse)
12:13 Discussing rafter re-fitment process in detail
13:30 Loft conversion repair work (time lapse)
It's important to recognize that the situation involving AN Carpentry is rooted in a specific context. AN Carpentry was contracted to rectify structural issues INDENTIFIED by a Building Engineer. Their involvement was not based on subjective assessments but rather on documented findings regarding the deficiencies in the roof's integrity.
Moreover, AN Carpentry's role was to execute the proposed solution PROVIDED by a Structural Engineer, not to independently determine the course of action. It is essential to understand that their actions were guided by professional recommendations rather than personal judgments.
Suggesting that AN Carpentry was hired solely based on arbitrary opinions or granted unchecked authority reflects a misunderstanding of the situation and the professional protocols involved.
Bolting through rafters using timber connectors is an acceptable method of supporting roof structure. We have plans from structural engineer and passed building control using that method. This method was also used in removal of trusses.
You are correct, unfortunately non of the correct actions where taken in a beginning of this build!
@@ANCarpentry yeah shocking work. Good job, not easy putting peoples crap right
Notching rafter will weaken them.
never notch out existing rafters. Put the knee wall beneath them by cutting the stud at an angle.
I would disagree as if you put timber at the angle it's not taking the weight but relying on fixing instead, it will want to slip off the timber, if you cut beard's mouth weight gets directed straight down!
If anything the roof will spread out not inward, so cutting bird mouth becomes more disadvantages.
No the guy is right stud wall under rafters sat on with birds mouth….you don’t have to bolt your 8x2s to the old ceiling joists
There is a reason why rafters have birdsmouths cut on them ,if you can't work that one out ,don't touch it !
Wow some of those mistakes were mind boggling, thanks for explaining/showing how not to do it
Glad it was helpful!
Why would you bolt through the existing ceiling joists with the new floor joists? The whole point of a new floor is that it should be totally independent of the existing ceiling joists. Are you sure you know what you are doing?
Those where specifications of engineer at the time all we did was follow the instructions, but as you say, i have done jobs where floor joists are kept separate from sealing joist for the reason you mentioned.
On those rafters and new floor jois steel strapping wrapped over spacer blocking should dolve the issue.
There where lots of issues, and things done kets say not how I would done them if started the job from scratch.
It really highlights your commitment to quality workmanship 👍👍 I just cannot believe those steels where not resting on pad stones, that's a shocker.
Thanks glad to see someone that understand the difference!
We have a timber frame mid terrace house. There are no breeze blocks in between the houses, can you still build a loft with dormer. We have had some engineers saying without the original plans it’s a no go, some saying we need pad stones, it’s so confusing.
Hi trouble with timber is that it is difficult to calculate the load so hence why engineers say that to you as with drawing they would have some figures to look at, but without it's to risky.
What is usually done in modern days with stud walls, if it needed to be as load bearing wall it get's boarded either with ply wood or OSB board, thickness required gets calculated by structural engineer and unfortunately without engineers calculations you will not know what size timber, board you need to use which will stop you again from getting it signed off.
Try a new system called ecotrus
It will allow you to carry out your conversion
Great to see a video telling you what not to do... well done!! 👍🏻
Thanks for appreciating!
At the beginning, 1:01. So it’s ok to birds mouth thin as that
I’m trying to research mine for the future. And they are 4 x 2 rafters
Is angling the supports a way also
Bird’s mouth should be maximum 1/3 of the timber in ideal world, so if your timber is 94x45 then you could cut in 30mm deep.
I wasnted to ask what would be classed as a bargain on a 3 bed property? Weve been quoted 19.5k and said we dont need metal rafts even though its a modern w truss loft.
My advice get 3 independent quotes and ask for detailed brake down what is included, however 19.5 k sounds cheap, loft conversion are starting around £40 k and upwards depending on specifications etc.
Nice video with good explanations. What grade timber did you use to support the rafters and what grade did you use for new common rafters?
Hi Jim Bow. Thanks for comment, on structural stuff we only use C 24 grade wood ( use it on everything structural can't go wrong then).
Oooh, need to seal that opening under the eaves. A continuous open soffit under the eave will make terrible drafts in winter and impossible coolong in the summer. 😮😮😮
There was a little more problem to solve before that.
You should never bolt the new attic floor rafters to the ceiling rafters they should always be independent to each other so weight and movement on the converted attic floor has no bearing on the bedroom ceilings underneath.
The new rafters should be set a half inch gap so they don't touch the plasterboard if they sag over time.
I agree that if you fit new joists alongside of the existing sealing joist the should be kept separated to prevent noise transfer , but in this case where they are cut of on one end there is not much you can do about that as they can’t be left floating unfixed as still taking weight of ceiling, whats left of original.
One day I plan to convert my attic into a living space. I find this video informative. But I still have few questions:
Who is responsible for deciding how the wood structure will be built; Structural engineer or the contractor who will built it?
Second question is that once things go wrong, does any one gets punished? Any fines made or restrictions on responsible person?
Hi.
Structural engineer is responsible for steels un structure, timber size used etc, but also you need good architect who can provide you with detailed plans, as the biggest problems with loft conversions is condensation problems solving( the easiest is by having worm roof link here: jtcroofing.co.uk/news/warm-flat-roof-cold-flat-roof/),
as there is no need for cross ventilation, which is needed with cold roof link here: www.buildingregs4plans.co.uk/guidance_flat_roof_types.php)
if height allows, warm roof is better option, but you need to have enough height in your attic space, I would say about 2400 mm upwards as all layers insulation, osb are installed on top of the deck( flat roof) if your height is not sufficient then you will have to use cold roof construction, with plenty of cross ventilation to avoid build up in condensation.
But all this will be subject to drawings, and dimensions you have in your property, as for who's responsible, trad men are responsible to build it to the specifications of architect drawings and use materials specified by structural engineer.
Holy crap how much wood did they waste, no wonder price of wood has gone up
Tell me about it, not just that, new roof looked old as it was badly supported before tiles went on, and by the time we got to rectify things it was a bit too late unfortunately
Tell me why your new pad stone above the window is balanced on the window cloak on the left hand side. Why is it not more central. It does not have enough bearing on the left hand side. It’s wrong you need to redo it.
Hi Dave, you might of missed that we took on this job, after it was bogged, in ideal world many things would of been done differently if build correctly from day one, we where working along side with Building control at the time getting things rectified as best as they could of been at the time.
great advice mate thanks
Glad to be helpful!!!
I not a professional carpenter and even I can see that that was a cowboy job.
the homeowner
Very true!
I thought you needed steels running across for the floor. Good info..
Yes you need steels and or flitch beams, (steel sandwiched between timbers) they are are taking load of the floor above and taking some load of the roof as there is stud wall ( dwarf wall) build under roof rafters around 900 mm height of the floor joists spreading some of the roof load on low bearing walls etc.
At what point must a ridge beam be replaced with a steel?
It depends of Architects design and structural engineers calculations.
It's a perfectly reasonable question Rodger although it's plausibly a safe answer if one is either unsure of any complexities of building regulatory requirements regarding the attics structural configuration whether it's fink, queenpost, modified queenpost, howe, kingpost, pan etc etc. But as we both no doubt know in respect to building regulations it's primarily common sense mostly and should be very simple unless one has stumbled over local building regulations or isn't entirely sure on the essential building works being carried out properly hence the building regulatory requirement notice! Installing the steel RSJs is the first of the major structural works to be completed as one would expect before replacing and securing everything into place with the reinforced struts! Tbh at this point if I was a structural engineer then I would be absolutely mortified!
If it's a "ridge beam" it will be supporting the weight of the roof & should be made of something rather substantial & you'd need proper SE calculations if you're doing a proper job. However in this I'd guess it is simply a "ridge board", which is mainly there to fix the top of the rafters into among other things, although it should be a decent thickness & of sufficient depth to match the angle cut into the rafter tops. With a "ridge board" the weight of the roof is transferred downwards to the wall plate or whatever at the bottom so you'd need to do something like tie the bottom of the rafters into the ceiling joists etc to stop the rafters spreading & pushing out the walls. The guy in the video remarks on the fact they need to fit something to stop the spreading.
Thanks A N Carpentry!!!
You are welcome 👍
Ridge timber is not strengthened, and the ceiling ties are not bolted, the floor work is a dogs dinner, good luck with it mate
Nothing was strengthened on that job, wee had a "lot of fun". Good spot thou!!
Great vid.
Thanks, glad that you enjoyed it!
Do not cut a birds mouth in the rafter u Wally
What ever!
All that well intended work that doesn't meet building codes ... argh!!!! REDO!!
👍🏻
You wouldn't build a tree house like that. Shameful.
Now you would not definitely!
This looks like an expensive roof job
It turned out to be, more expensive than it should of been if done properly first time around.
It iiiis what it iiisss
Agree!
Why would old floor joist connect with new joist anyway? I never seen structural engineer pointing out on it, and they would definitely do if that is important. Same about rafters support. The video is rubbish, sorry
You clearly haven’t noticed that in case if ceiling joists are cut short and not resting on old wall plate either end and just balancing on load bearing walls in a middle of the building they have to be fixed, to make sure that part of the ceiling what’s still left is held up, and clearly you have no idea on how to build, before you comment do research.
So wrong your clearly not a Carpenter
That's it i am hair dresser 😁🤣
I get your tryna save the customer money not having to rip the roof off and retile again but after removing those 7 rafters that's like 12²m of unfixed roofing battern and tile will cost the client more in the long run
We didn't remove all at the same time, we done one by one where possible and also we used props to take weight of the roof, otherwise it wouldn't be safe to do at all.
@@ANCarpentry I see that but after doing that there is no longer any fixing through the roofing batten into the rafters
He is wrong immediately. Bye.
🤷♂️
Amazing that somebody took this on without a clue about what they were doing!
If it was the homeowner, they deserve what they get; if a 'builder', I hope they weren't paid!
If this wasn't properly sorted by these guys, it would have been impossible to sell the house.
Must say i agree on this, unfortunately so called builder got quite a big chunk of money before he was sacked but not everything so we did our best of what we had available.
I don’t think a pro doing job
But nice to show the mistakes
Moly mouse done it
No worries that's why we make these sort of videos hopefully people will avoid making same mistakes !
Quote 500 quid for thos job 😆😆
about 25%-%30 cheaper than should be
Sorry mush you lost me
That's a shame, can you tell me what was a reason.?