80. Autistic Empathy, with Terra Vance and Kate Jones

Discover what’s possible when communication breaks down both ways.
Our guests this week are Terra Vance and Kate Jones. Terra is the founder of NeuroClastic, an autistic-led non-profit organization that publishes articles by autistic writers and professionals advocating for autistic representation and human rights. Kate is an artist and visual designer at NeuroClastic.
In this conversation, we discuss:
Being diagnosed later in life and growing up without proper support
Anxiety and autistic burnout
The medical model vs the social model of disability
The consequences of masking
The double empathy problem
How to teach neurotypical children to interact with autistic peers
Utilizing special interests
Interdependence and collectivism
Advice for allies
We also touch on the controversial topic of Applied Behavior Analysis, or ABA, which Terra and Kate strongly oppose. In previous episodes, you may have heard from Autistic guests who have reported positive experiences from receiving ABA therapy, as well as autistic behavior analysts currently practicing ABA.
As many self-advocates have repeatedly reminded us on this podcast, if you’ve met one person with autism, you’ve met one person with autism. As we intentionally share different, and even opposing views in this space, we encourage you to step outside the realm of right and wrong and engage with the wide range of nuanced perspectives coming from the autistic community on hard topics like this.
I invite you to listen to this episode from a place of openness and curiosity. If you hear something that triggers an immediate thought of, “No, that’s not true!”, I encourage you to pause, and instead ask yourself, “Could this be true?” I know how hard this can be, mainly because it has happened to me many times since we started this podcast... But how much can we really learn if we’re not willing to lean into discomfort? What's possible lives in the realm of curiosity.
If you have any questions or comments, please join us in our online Global Autism Community, where very diverse opinions are continuously engaging in these types of conversations.
To learn more about Terra, Kate, and NeuroClastic, please visit neuroclastic.com/.
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[@Shilo2022]

I love this end "...we don't know how to market...we don't even try...we have no advertisements because...we generally hate capitalism." This is so me :) Great podcast I really enjoyed all perspectives.

[@enisedeane]

This is the first time that anyone has provided a reasonable explanation for how I have existed in such isolation. Being highly functional is one of the many reasons that I’ve gone undiagnosed and misunderstood. I’ve described my self as a rainbow child being on the spectrum . All forms of energy can easily overwhelm me. Physically I shut down with lights out and a weighted blanket to reset. This a is real possibility.

[@DEEPMOODYPURPLEBLUES]

I'm not autistic as far as I know, but whenever I listen to folks who are I feel like I'm hearing folks speak to my life experiences. I live with developmental and complex trauma and the overlap of experience with autism is astounding, including and especially, the further traumatization sustained from society because of this despicable myth of normal that hinders understanding of what it means to be human.

[@blessingblessed4141]

Hi Sir, please hear me out, am Carol am in kenya, my Son is autistic n ADHD, I was looking on how i can get help online n i found this, please do u know how i can get help coz have an autistic kid n i feel like i don't have strength to continue looking after him, i have a months baby,,n autism schools here in Kenya is very expensive , can't afford,so please if u know where I can get help please help me. Thankyou