The Furuli Expulsion - Episode 37 - Watchtower In Focus LIVE
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- On June 18, 2020, in Larvik, Norway, a congregation meeting of Jehovah’s Witnesses conducted over Zoom included a unique announcement. It was declared that "Rolf Furuli is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses." While disfellowshipping and the associated shunning is a regular occurrence in this religion, this was a disfellowshipping with a difference. A retired professor in Semitic languages at the University of Oslo, Furuli was one of the most well-known elders in Norway and a noted apologist for the religion. But when he published a book critical of his religion's leadership in May of this year, his expulsion was only a matter of time.
Timestamps:
04:35 - Who is Rolf Furuli?
12:40 - Chapter 1: The Religion of the Bible
30:46 - Chapter 2: The Faithful and Discreet Slave
37:11 - Chapter 3: The Governing Body
43:04 - Chapter 4: The Extreme View on Higher Education
47:57 - Chapter 5: Disfellowshipping Based on Human Commandments
1:00:34 - Chapter 6: The Governing Body's New View of the Bible
1:10:15 - News: Watchtower refuses to join Australian redress scheme
1:20:09 - News: Watchtower suing Truth and Transparency Foundation
1:24:48 - News: Montana "Hardin Ring" case update
1:27:47 - News: Watchtower offering JWs medical consultation in Covid-19 response
1:30:45 - Summary thoughts
PDF copies of "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body" may be obtained by sending an email to awatu-publishers@sf-nett.no
Carl Olof Jonsson's work on 607 BCE:
The Gentile Times Reconsidered kristenfrihet.s...
When Was Jerusalem Destroyed? (Part 1) www.jwfacts.co...
When Was Jerusalem Destroyed? (Part 2) www.jwfacts.co...
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#rolffuruli #watchtower
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Every time I hear Mark speak, I'm more and more impressed by his use of words and ability to explain things.
Of all the guests that Lloyd has on his show Mark is quickly becoming my favorite. His immense knowledge and clear, concise speaking manner makes him a joy to listen to.
I agree wholeheartedly but I think he's a co-host now, isn't he?
Yes he is a fantastic communicator
Same! I love that guy, he is very knowledgeable and passionate about his activism
yes, excellent speaker, clear and knowledgeable
He's my favorite too. He is very knowledgeable and has knows critical details about JW court cases.
I can imagine that he just got tired. I HATED getting dressed 3 times a week to go to meetings as a kid - can't imagine someone with Furuli's level of responsibility. I saw brothers and sisters growing up that were disfellowshipped and some seemed relieved. Furuli is probably at peace, and doubt he regrets it
I look back on all that getting dressed up and parading round the streets of South Leeds with a briefcase. Awful. Stop playing out. Get dressed we are off to the meeting! Wow.
I hate ties now cuz I was forced to wear them as a child at the Hall
Don't forget about getting dressed to go waste your precious time knocking on a strangers door
@@kitsurname5741
Me too!
@@jimbobaggans1564 I will never go back ... too much work! All I want is church on Sunday for a one-hour service period.
What a great examination today of what has recently happened. I find it most puzzling that someone with the intellectual rigour sufficient to achieve a Phd can also retain a belief in the doctrines and stories in the bible. Keep up the good work.
I know a doctor who's a JW and refuse to administer blood to his patients if needed... so rational thinking has little chance to stand when it comes to religious believes...
Not sure I understand your point. Am I right in thinking that you propose the idea that people can only believe in either academic research or Christian theology? That would be not only empirically false but also in line with the spurious JW's governing body position on academia.
It’s strange how any person with a PhD can choose to be an atheist. If nothing exists, then something can’t spontaneously happen. There must be an agent of action to create a reaction. God is the originator of the universe. With that basic logic, you’ll find many Christian PHD holders with faith in Christ. However JWs are not Christians. JWs have never known or experienced a true relationship with Jesus Christ.
shunning: a form of torture. Wow, you’re absolutely right!
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose...
Got to say John, you are top notch when it comes to the quality of your show and all the information and effort put into each episode. Its fantastic to watch and you put the content out in such a way its very easy to digest and very informative.
Wow, thanks! You're very kind! :)
Fantastic video, fantastic book review by all guests. Answered all my questions. Thanks for posting, Lloyd!
This is the guy that wrote books to defend the JW chronology. His books are discussed in THE GENTILE TIMES RECONSIDERED by Carl Olof Jonsson. It was obvious that the 2011 articles were based on Furuli's work. This is such a huge blow to anyone that still believes in 607 and the entire JW timeline.
Rolf Furuli was an impressive knowledgeable JW here in Norway in the 70’s and 80’s.
In the early 90’s, he was in a heated debate with Carl Olof Jonsson regarding the fall of Jerusalem 607 vs 587. A witness friend of mine was kicked out of the org because of his leaning towards the 587 year. He had some correspondence with Furuli at the time where Furuli tried to weaken the 587 view. This heated topic was one of the main factors why he went into academia to try to accumulate scholarly weight in his aim to ‘defeat’ Jonsson . However, Jonsson had released the book: ‘The Gentile Times Reconsidered”, and against the arguments in that book, Furuli didn’t stand a chance! This was back in the early and mid 90’s, and the debate went on for some time, this before Furuli had any scientific credentials. But over the years since then, Furuli has written and co written several books on the topics of Chronology, Bible translation, Interpretation etc., but his theories have received rather harsh comments in the academic community.
Why he still believes Jehovah’s Witnesses is the true religion? IMO, I think for a man like Furuli in his ‘elevated’ position, to admit that his 59 years investment in this faith is all in vain - that’s just too hard to swallow. It would ruin his self esteem, his pride, his whole life. It HAS TO BE THE TRUTH, at any cost! Pointing to some ‘adjustments’ in the hierarchical structure of the organisation may be bold but legitimate, but to confess, both to others and not the least for himself, that he has been wrong his whole life, that burden is just too heavy. So human after all.
In other words, Furuli is lost.
It's called narcissism. He has to be true or has to be the hero, who is a victim of "unfair" treatment. No other choice for a "true" JW, nor for a true narcissist. The truth itself a heavy "burden", can't face it.
Mr Furuli has the right to believe whatever he wants to. However, it's highly unlikely he will ever face the facts that other JW doctrines are BS too, the society has never been "theocratic" in the meaning of this word, not even before 1972 and certainly not during Rutherford time etc. It's hard to find a meaning of 6 decades of dedication for a cult.
@@csillatorok5060 my thought as well, his big ego didn't get the attention he was craving. He defended his faulty teachings till the bitter end. The book seems more like a redemption
He's so far gone in the head, he'll probably crawl back to the elders soon and apply for reinstatement.
@@CEOCaveman I've just started to read his book. He's a hardcore JW who worked himself up in the ladder as well as the education system (as we all know there are certain people who can do anything). I have an impression from his story that he went to university with the mindset to defend JWs doctrines. "When we settled in Oslo,
in addition to Greek, I studied historical geology, biology, and chemistry to test the information in the creation account in Genesis chapters 1 and 2. I made a very detailed study of the living cell, and the complexity of each cell shows clearly that life must have been created by a living being. This strengthened my faith in God."
He wasn't cheated or misled unless blinded by his own ego (but it's different) because he had a knowledge and outlook that most of us didn't have while we were Witnesses. He used it for his own favour wrapped into the "helping others" positions within an organization that basically ripping people off, and he knew that. The sign of real intelligence is the person does not support this sort of ideology and does not pick up a position where he's aware that his hands are tight and cannot do anything within the system.
However, I'm basically happy he wrote that book and brought up those issues within the org. It was a brave move but nowhere near as Raymond Franz's or Barbara Anderson's act. I'm interested in how and where he can "sell" his JW doctrines outside the org. They won't work, in my opinion, but I'm curious.
The Gentile times reconsidered was one of the best books I read when leaving. I needed that depth of evidence. I didn't quite believe the story at first (still brainwashed) but it still holds a valuable place on my bookshelf!
Wow so this is what got me looking for your channel with Ray Franz video great thanks again Lloyd!
I was the MBA Director at an Australian University. I can relate. As an Elder, I could not advocate the value of Higher Education.
No surprise there. I saw the disfellowshipping of Furuli as being only a matter of time. Believing in the Governing Body as the Faithful Slave is fundamental to remaining a captive of a the organisation
Yet they are not a cult, lol
Thus the reason why they coerce the followers into completely putting their trust in the GB.
And sadly, he is still a firm believer of the org. even though they don't want him anymore.
Loyds closing comments speaks volumes on how the Governing Body Think n Works...No Exceptions to the Rules... Having Furuli Disfellowship is a Done Deal...🤨🤨🤨
Even to their own determent.
The teaching of the generation of 1914 would by no means pass away in my view was one of the most signifcant changes that was made. I had stopped going to the Hall just a few years before this had happened. My parents who still attend to this day I spoke to them about this signifcant change. I explained to this this was a 180 degree turn, that this is to much of a change for me to rechencile with. What surprised me is that they just looked at each other and didn’t have much to say. That change was so signifcant that it made TIME magazine as a major article.
To JWs watching and wanting to leave, just become TOTALLY inactive and if BULLIED by the elders just stay silent it worked for Jesus when provoked by scribes and Pharisees, and mention to friends and family you personally have a CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE,they are obligated to respect your conscience....from Australia.
Justin Thyme I don’t think they are obligated to respect your conscience if it disagrees with their doctrines & rules.
@@carolwrinkles6204 but conscientious objection is very strong in the organization....
Yep! It works for me.
It works for me. Totally inactive and the elders don’t pester me. Even still married to a staunch JW wife. I just keep my mouth shut except for nuanced comments. I can only really talk about my discoveries in researching to my non-baptized exJW siblings and a couple of old inactive buddies. And I keep my social media comment incognito as well.
I wonder if Raymond Franz is looking down smiling?
From where?
Maybe a sermon from the mount? Ha Ha
He can't look down when he is beneath us. He is nothing but dust while he sleeps in the grave just like Job, Solomon and David.
Great job guys, I want the government to bring the hammer down hard on JWs here in Australia
I too was stumbled and discouraged when the GB discarded types/antitypes. I can relate to how Furuli felt. I talk about it in one of my videos...and specifically the Jehu/Jehonadab type as Mark outlined.
Just as it was with the wall of Berlin, taking down the watchtower,stone by stone. Good work!
Oh gosh. I cannot wait for the tower to go down. Boy. Armageddon for the tower is right around the corner. ;)
Such a shame!! Imagine rooting for someone and they still turn on you just because every little thing they said you didn’t agree with on. That’s like your wife asking for a divorce because you left the damn toilet seat up! He should actually feel like a real fool at this point defending this cult as “the one true religion” only to be kicked out of it!
@Nineteen84 I always get a little flushed 🤪
Brainwashing runs deep!
It blows my ever loving mind that he still believes it’s the true religion.
Hey McFly Yes maybe an educational man and a scholar but certainly does not make him wise.
@Matthias Abrahham hahaha
@Matthias Abrahham hes not claiming his views as a philosopher but as a historian, linguist and dabbling in medical science. If he claimed his views were philosophical that would be fine.
It is absolutely amazing to me that the organization chose to disfellowship him. It would have been in their best interest to simply ignore his book. By disfellowshiping him they brought attention to him and his book. It's foolish. It just goes to show how the organization is self destructive. The logical course would have been to distance themselves from him, then just ignore him and his book and pretend that it just doesn't exist. The organization will cut off their noses to spite their face.
" True religion" is not as critical following christ. Man created religion and men dont have a good track records as history shows. Stop wasting time on picking apart a religion.
They have to disfellowship him. Now the witnesses can't read it
Yeah, but it's the one true religion. Lol
Thank you J.C. Chanell. Keeping the Faith. Jehovah would be pouring blessings and Holy Spirt on you by the second. Jesus LOVES you.
@johncedars LOVE THE TIMESTAMPS IN THE VIDEO
Hello everyone you have support in the USA. 👍😃
I think Jill makes an interesting point that the author picks and chooses what works for him in the religion; however, I would argue that we all do that regardless of our religion or beliefs; we just rarely hear JW's express these views because of the consequences. Ultimately, I think Mark hit the nail on the head when he stated 'the scales have tipped, so the author doesn't have as much to lose at this time by speaking out'. Good video. Michele, Pittsburgh
Another RAY FRANZ what about BARBARA ANDERSON another good whistleblower....
Superb... thanks guys.
Furuli questioned a Religion! He is kicked out for questioning! Still he said this religion is the truth religion. I DON‘T GET IT 👩💻🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
You are not allowed to question anything
This happens all the time in the cult and many humiliate themselves to try and get back in. Shunning is strong with these people.
There is no need for disfellowshipping. End of story.
I hope this case will lead some Norwegian witnesses to think about God's organization and wake up.
@@darkness_of_the_night you probably won't be one of the ones I was talking about
Watching all the way from Barbados in the west indies
Appreciated Jill's insights and I hope to see her again on WTIF.
I remember studying the books Mark mentioned. JWs thought it was soooo deep. Please. A whole bunch of complicated Hoeey based on ancient Hooey written by men. Pffft.
@Matthias Abrahham haha! Horse pucky = bullshit = stories = fiction.
I remember being forced to study some of those publications for Book Study nights as a kid, late 60s-70s, being urged that these were the deeper things of God. Now all those are obsolete and in the huge WT Society TRASH PILE of old publications and doctrines ! !
@@ShoNuffSoulBro1 Super Deep Bull Shit is what it all is.
He's like all the creationists with legitimate degrees in biology or paleontology. They don't improve knowledge in their respected fields. They only use their intellect to make mental gymnastics to come to their desired conclusions. Most of them attributed very little to scientific research or understanding as such.
607 is my lunchbox combination....everlasting lunch
Hope he wake up soon
He is proven himself to be untrustworthy as a historian. It seems to think that different rules apply to him than other JWs. His statements in the newspapers display his crippling cognitive dissonance. My sympathy for him is limited.
It is possible that this is the beginning of a journey for him. But until he is able to use critical thinking he will struggle
Well, the beautiful lady in the bottom left upped the average good looks of the team several notches lol
What does Ferulili have to say about the disgusting child abuse "handling" policies and cover up?
And what does he think about disfellowshipping--other than in reference to apaostates?
And what is his stance on blood transfutions?
If he does not have a problem with these three doctrines, he is far off the mark in his concerns.
Great review of his book, although he will have an interesting afterlife since he has been kicked out of his Beloved Religion.
Thanks to all you and special shout out to Jill! Really appreciate her insights✨
"intergalactic leaps of logic"...15:02 powerful descriptive phrase..
I like Furoli's book! Even tho he still sticks to most of the JW beliefs I think this is a good book to wake up friends and family. He doesn't sound like an apostate and it doesn't come out as aggressive or hateful. I don't think active witnesses that read it will get over defensive even tho he is proving it wrong
Very interesting insightful remarks. Love Gill' Colliers Encyclopaedia, a deep resource for research.Kudos to all.👍🙋♀️🇵🇷
Thank you. Theyre practically an heirloom 😊
Awesome video chat. Again. Disappointed I missed the live. Damn technology 😂. I have been waiting to to hear the details of this book since hearing of his new admittance into the DF club with the rest of us 😉
Jill looks extremely pretty,
She is gorgeous!
Yes, I agree!!!
Ye's so beautiful!!!
Hi from Devon england
Hi from Sussex England 😊
Hi from Munich germany :)
Hi. From Yorkshire UK
Every plant that my Father has no planted will be destroyed!
You need to talk to my mum. She is good with plants.
I really believed in the types, antihypertensive when I was in the org. Why did the WT get rid of that belief?
I spent so much time and energy studying that dribble.
Who even cares about a 607 date--The Truth shouldn't be so hard to know--if a Creator wanted us to know what was right/wrong or what he wanted us to do--we shouldn't be in a guessing game ! ..........Is he/she/it on Vacation or what ?
Sam Tresenriter HE / SHE / IT went AWOL.....why would a creator want humans to know anything ? IT creates, experiments,.thats all...who knows,perhaps IT is like
the Chinese, experimenting with viruses......Sometimes things go wrong and so in our case, the creative force moved on..............leaving us on a tiny planet eventually becoming Extinct.....
There is no god or jehovah. Egyptian god tetragrammaton in Greek is four letters of ATON. ATON? ATUM, ATOMIC, ADAM, THE SUN!!!
Could people like Furuli start a new church called 'Conservative Unitarians' or something? Many JWs leave the organisation but are still inside mentally. If there was another church that maintained JWs core believes (like no-Trinity, no Cross, no Hellfire, Paradise on earth etc.). They could just join that church and still believe they are in the 'one true religion' with no nostalgia towards Watchtower. It would make it easier to escape Watchtower.
Bible Students have a lot of beliefs like JW
And with no condemnation if you want to celebrate a love ones birthday (in moderation), or Mother’s Day, or Thanksgiving, etc, etc
Anyone can start a religion. The thing with leaving is also having to give up the lifestyle of having family and lifelong long friend. The cruel use of "shunning" is what is keeping a lot of people in the cult.
Very interesting Stuff !
I think your video was very good and quite informative. I would just say this... in a sort of side note, Mrs Furuli has just gone through an incredible trauma. His entire life and his existence and reason for living has just been taken away from him because he spoke his mind. That is all he did. He spoke his mind. He is now disfellowshipped. I don’t know how long it took you to process your leaving and finding a level ground to stand on; but this man needs help and love. Please don’t expect too much of him. Please don’t criticize his views. He is just waking up. It is hard. It is devastating. It is unlike anything you ever go through in your entire life especially when it has been your life. He is just a man. Don’t look at his titles. He is not his titles. He is just a man needing love and understanding. Who cares what he believes now or if he is all the way woken up. Give him some time. I know you mean well but please don’t exploit him for his story. I know you would not do that purposely but think about it. He is after all just one of us. Thank you for all you are doing.
Christy, with greatest respect, I'll criticize whatever views I like. Rolf is not just a random guy who has woken up. He has positioned himself as one of the organization's foremost apologists, using his academic credentials to defend their most spurious teachings, and has exited the organization writing a book apparently intended to influence others to share his views. Along with the rest of the panel, I'm more than entitled to share my perspective.
John Cedars of course you can criticize whatever and whoever you like. You have free speech to do that. I am just one of your viewers giving you my personal view on one specific point. You can take it or leave it. Obviously, you have chosen to leave it and that is fine. As you know your viewers come from all backgrounds. From my own experience as a long term pioneer, with bethel service in New York, Gilead school, special pioneer work and then missionary work in a 3rd world country, and all those JW witness titles, I was in the end “just a person” and no more. Yet, I was completely devastated with the awakening. Likely the most difficult time of my entire life....glad to even be here. I made it through the rain. No RUclips then and no deprogramming group to get strength from. I had to find my strength and myself in my own ways. I sought professional help and I decided to get a “higher education” I went back to school, went to college, then law school,
and then became a licensed
attorney. I have been practicing law and running a successful law practice for well over two decades. As you age, you reflect on things over a long term. It is really a beautiful thing from my perspective looking back. Yet I was feeling the pain that this ex JW must be in now. I was not trying to attack you but giving you just one persons opinion. I don’t know Mr. furuli at all. Never even heard of him. I read his book though when it came out. Don’t agree with all he writes but I have to respect him for writing a book that states his personal viewpoint that he feels the governing body has gone too far knowing when he put it out there that this will likely be the end for him as to the organization and his beloved religion, as the organization itself cannot take any criticism and disfellowships those with a different viewpoint. It took courage to do this and you are correct that he basically brought it on himself by doing that. I just thought I would interject a bit of humanity from my just a one person viewer. Enjoyed the show overall. Your part and the other panel members as well did an excellent job with their 7 minute reviews. Thanks
Not only that but when you write a book you’re putting yourself out there and apt to critics. 🤷🏻♀️
Maryann Lockwood very true!
@@christyn.6656 Nicely put.
i had just missed the stream
Same
Buen día John traducelo al español.hay muchos latinos testigos que tienen que abrir sus ojos
Ver a exjw Santos Bonacci en español es importante. También a Jordan Maxwell. Pasalo.
Gentile Times revisited in online at COJ’s website
Matthias Abrahham COJ = Carl Olaf Jonson
If I went back now with what I believed that they taught me and if I mentioned those beliefs they would dis fellow ship me for not believing what they teach but it is what they taught as truth when I was still going. LOL The truth wasn't the truth. LOL
Barbara guest how ironic is that?
I couldn’t watch all of this but from what I heard in the 1st 40 minutes I gather that this Furuli guy is a bit of a narc and not a smart one regardless of his professorship. All the best to him.
27:40 32:10 42:30 54:02 55:40 1:06:33 1:07:55 1:20:56 1:45:02 1:45:45
45:20
I’m just learning about this. 😱
Por favor traducción al español me interesa mucho GRACIAS
Let's get Rolf Furuli and Carl Olof Jonsson in here for a hot debate on 607BCE !!!!
The sad part is that active witnesses won't dare to take a look at that book and just label it apostate lies. Heck, most don't even know the whole witness chronology is wrong.
Will there be closed captioning later?
Do you think Prof Firuli will in 6 months write a letter asking to be reinstated?
Ha!!! Even if he does, they won't accept him back I think.... to much damage to control
@@smellslikefreespirit670 I think you're right.
His elders will be in hot troubles should they decide to reinstate him in 6months. Elders were probably given careful instructions on when to maybe reinstate him-prolly,they will delay him for 2years or more under strict instructions.
Guys, i want to try something that i expecting for YEARS. For this experience i need someone who speaks Portuguese and english at high level.
.
I want to debate with JW people the "birthday" question. Do you know some jw english language people who would accept that?
Is there a debate? Their stance is something awful happened on someone's birthday celebration twice in the Bible. But what about every other holiday or cause for celebration? JW's spoon feed the people with "permission" to celebrate weddings, anniversary's, a baby shower in some places. Its all about self. No celebrating oneself. Just pay homage to Jehovah, the governing body, and your Elders. Control is the key here, stay in step, do only what we tell you to do, and have as little as possible association with those outside of the cult.
Olá sou do Brasil gostaria d pedir se pode traduzir suas matérias para português
Russel said October it was July.....They cant even get false prophesy right
Furuli's case goes to show that understanding and interpreting the word of God is not a child's play. It better to understand the Bible as it is writien and rely on Lord's sprit to guide us.
That’s my mummmmm
Hey baby!! 😘😘😘
Como puedo traducir al español
Oh my goodness Jill is so hot
Sounds like that medical document is a referral to medical personnel who sympathize with the org but, you can't hold us responsible if things go wrong.
Is Gerard Gertroux still a JW? Who do they have left with any pretence to having some scholarly credentials in related fields?
I dont understand.... In one hand they are begging for money, and in another they are booting their members....
Disfellowshipping is a part of dicipline ,thats gods part of giving a chance for the repentant its not the end of your journey to real life only God can see your real hearth what you though? Its helps other in the congregation protected againts bad influence and can ruin other spiritual relation to God.
Rolf Furuli foi expulso porque cometeu pecado grave e não se arrependeu , deixou que o 0rgulho dominasse seu coração ❤.
Did the grandiöse scholar attended the Judicial Committee against him? Or did he hide?
Dam, I’ll do slave laborer to live on the intro compound
Why do John, Mark and Jill think Furuli is an Italian name??
Not sure we ever said that. But if mispronounced I apologise.
... Which G.Bis going up and pierce his side... 😎😈😊😊🤟🤟🤟
Mansion house for GBs
To me historic dates they try to base their hard coded doctrine on is like being struck dead for finding an empty snickers bar wrapper in the “paradise “ and reminiscing.
Pointless in relation to their current treatment of people.(example mismatched on purpose)
I like this from one of your other vids
Deut 18:20-22
20 But any prophet who falsely claims to speak in my name or who speaks in the name of another god must die.’
21 “But you may wonder, ‘How will we know whether or not a prophecy is from the Lord?’ 22 If the prophet speaks in the Lord’s name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the Lord did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared.
Woah, I new Terry O’Brien growing up, still a company man then 😂
I guess Tony Morris was correct lol
About what?
Why do you find your own comment so hilarious?
@@milham76 twas a joke. Tony said the more advanced education the more danger. I guess Furuli found that out the hard way.
Types and Antitypes are false comparisons. It was a way for the society to get creditability (they didnt deserve)by making false comparisons. Anybody can make a comparison with a bible story. Such comparisons are immoral and decietful. The society was correct in this instance for getting rid of types and anititypes.
Again i wanna say that everything rolf said was correct,he didnt just put his book out there, he wrote to the gb first which is in line with what jesus says about going to your brother to make peace.
I believe in Jehovah but the problem is many of us witnesses serve the organization over jehovah himself,some of these man made rules that has been elevated to divine status from the gb never came from Jehovah! And it makes my god look bad with high levels of misrepresentation. All of this has stumbled my brothers to do point that they leave so im happy that rolf spoke out some one had to do it! Whats sad in all of this is this is exactly what satan wants to create doubts in our mind that jehovah n the organization he is useing is not good, n as genuine as the gb may be they are not realizing that they r playing beautifully into to d devil plot
i know bcuz of the universal issue that Jehovah has allowed such foolishness to continue n has not heavily gotten involve in the affairs of man but "Jehovah n jesus who is head please i pray for your intervention"
Hello, I believe in Jehovah and Jesus but you may be still trapped into thinking the JWs are the only organization on earth God is using due to faulty reasoning (that the society gave us). The "universal sovereignty issue" was created by Watchtower. It has no historical christian theological basis and it only bolsters the idea that there is one group today who are vindicating Jehovahs name. Christian theology shows us that Gods sovereignty was never challenged. GOD is the almighty, he doesnt need to prove that to anyone but his creation fell and required salvation. This salvation came to fruition through Jesus Christ and it is by faith in Jesus and the witness of him that the father may be glorified and men will be saved. I hope you continue to search for truth. Look into the classical atonement model and read some of the early church fathers to understand a broader and more beautiful story as to why Christ died for mankind. (Hint, It wasn't to defend a petty, vindictive Gods name, the only person who needed vindication was J.F Rutherford after his failed prophecies ;) )
I understand what your saying but first to begin with i dont believe in the organization my full trust is in Jehovah however this organization is the only one that as at least come closest to jehovah requirements and that is the only reason i will remain for example the preaching work sunday to sunday. This was a command by jesus and only this organization is carrying that out so successfully for yearssss only by means of gods spirit. The problem is man,and that is why i am in full support of rolf book, Jehovah has allowed the crap and suffering but would correct such when the great tribulation comes satan wants to confuse us
They are not worshipping the true God. They are worshipping an imposter. Lucifer. He is the accuser. He has taken our families hostage. They are not baptized, Father son holy Spirit. They worship jabolon. They are being tricked
@@massiahson6391 but preaching a Gospel which is tied around 1914, last days and the faithful and discreet slave is not what Jesus commanded his disciples to do. He told them to go and preach to all the nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. Witnesses do not baptize in the name of the father, son and holy spirit at all, they tell new converts they are part of the great crowd which exludes them from partaking of one of the commandements (the memorial) which Jesus told the apostles to continue doing. When you convert someone door to door you are lulling them into a group where they are told they are not part of the new covenant unless you are "annointed", they can only be a friend rather then a son of God, their salvation depends on following the direction of men and that they are not mediated by Jesus Christ. This is a false Gospel which the apostle Paul warned about "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!". The same gospel that the apostles preached has been preached by churches all over the world since the first century. It is Christ, and him crucified. The society admits in the 2007 article "the first resurrection now underway" that they identified the great crowd in 1935 (which has become a major doctrine in their Gospel) by communication with someone who was a dead annointed christian. "It seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today." The society even claims they are communicating with the dead today!
@@massiahson6391 my dear you are so misguided about the preaching work. Have you ever wondered why the churches continue to have millions of believers? It's because they also preach the gospel. They have missionaries that go all over the world and set up churches and win disciples for Christ. This is how Jehovah's Witnesses can go into those territories and exploit their work by twisting the scriptures to show them "another gospel" that looks new, shiny and attractive. Because the original Christians have already gone to these ends of the earth and preached the true gospel of Jesus Christ which is that we are sinners who need redemption and that belief in Christ and baptism in the name of the father, son and holy spirit and partaking in holy communion and bearing witness to others by living an exemplary Christian life is what saves us
The Palestinians are the Sons of Jehonadab son of Rechab who will forever have a standing before God because they obeyed their forefather's command never to drink any wine Jeremiah 35:19; vs 8-18 also. The sons of Jehonadab have been faithful to their forefather's command for over 3,500 yrs. And they have been and are being slaughtered and tyrannised out of their homes by cruel subjugation and who will speak up and say this is an abomination?
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Everything that rolf said is correct in this book ...
Please, his beliefs and the JWs are a lot of Hooey based on Hooey written by men for men. It's all just interpretations of interpretations of books written thousands of years ago by slave-owning, misogynist goat herders. There is no reason to base our lives on anything people write or say just because they claim it's from God.
Abigail Parker Even tho I’m no longer a believer in God or the Bible, Quran or whatever, I still find this old “Sacred” texts fascinating, if only as a way to compare how far we’ve come or how much we’ve regressed in our laws, philosophy and understanding of the world and human experience.
Anarchism is probably not the best answer either.
@@sleeplessdave9297 Anarchism? Who is proposing that?
Also Greek myths and other ancient works of literature reveal what life was like in the distant past.
Abigail Parker You kinda made it sound like it. But if that’s not the case regard the comment as a confusion on my part. And yes I agree on all the other examples you provided.
You've every right to think that if youre not insisting everyone else agree 😊
So, this is the gathering of the Apostate? Why not focus and talk about yourself why you have been kicked out or disfellowshipped, rather than inventing and dissecting books.
1. they have plenty of posts , lots with personal stories; 2. what's wrong with a book review/study?; 3. what do you mean 'inventing' books? Are you seriously suggesting this book discussed doesn't exist? Or maybe you don't believe the 'old light' books are real, or the secret shepherds book?
To the JW org a child is not worth $150K
First. Lol
Um um um uh uh
Wow you're pathetic. If you have nothing positive to say don't say it. Your energy would be better served trying to do a better job yourself, something tells me with all the time in the world you wouldn't achieve that ! Jealousy and negativity is an UGLY trait. I would be embarrassed if i was you.
GB is not inspired or not infaillable...
Nor do they get any insight into Bible scriptures. It's all just a stab in the dark.
Hahahahaha!!! He is tasting his own medicine. How many disfellowshiping cases he has on his conscience. The time also came for him. "Brother Furuli is no longer a JW! Hahahahaha!!!!! Maybe he can comfort himself reading "De elders Handbok". Lycka till Furuli! They like to play doctors, judges, police officers and experts in marital counseling without any academic study.