Fade, Interrupted: When the Elders Come Calling - Episode 2 (with Mark & Kimmy O'Donnell)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- When Mark & Kimmy O'Donnell chose to fade peacefully from their local Jehovah's Witness congregation in Maryland, initially their exit was met with minimal interference from elders. But after they went public with their knowledge of abuse within the religion, it didn't take long for the local elders to show up on their doorstep demanding a meeting.
Visit my website: reluctantapost...
Support me on Patreon: / cedars
Follow me on Twitter: / cedarsjwsurvey
Follow me on Instagram: / lloydevanscedars
Buy my book "The Reluctant Apostate": a.co/5qFN4JU
Buy my book “How to Escape From Jehovah’s Witnesses“: a.co/e9OQRi1
Leave a voicemail: www.speakpipe....
Check out my t-shirt designs: teespring.com/...
Elders knocked on my door for at least 6 months after I left. I just never opened door, didn't think I owed them an explanation, they soon stopped.
Did they eventually "disfellowship" you?
Boo R. Don't know and don't care. Although I am shunned, also don't care.
@@gaillarsen7863 ok
Gail Larsen You’re a brave dude for doing that lol
I wish didnt care about being ahunned
@@prettyboyboo6901 LOL @ "ok".
Congrats to Mark for taking these people on and not allowing them to keep victimizing him and his wife. I applaud you for showing strength and courage in spite of these men and their atrocious behavior.
As I was watching this, I kept thinking "I'd be going after them for harassment!" Mark, I am so glad you are taking on legal stand on this! You and your wife are commended for sharing this. People are watching!!!!!
They used to come to my work and harass me. Reminding me I was going to die. They had to be asked to leave several times.
I had a similar experience , 4 months after my last meeting 2 elders came unannounced and banged on my door for some time, Sunday afternoon, I didn't answer and they came again a month later, both times my door was damaged. Also had repeated text messages which also went on for ages, eventually I said to leave me alone and respect my privacy. I have since disassociated myself, crazy....
That legally defines harassment. Wow, they are legally ignorant.
If it hasn’t been long file charges for property damage. They need to pay for everything they do. 😠 About one month after I decided to not go back I sent my letter of disassociation saying that I did not want to discuss anything (I don’t want my “friends “ to be caused any more pain of judicial reviews or anything unnecessary investigations, even though they probably will not speak to me anymore). I helped my daughter with hers as well. She actually sent hers before me. I wanted to make sure they didn’t try to cause problems in my marriage. My husband is staying in right now, but I did tell him they may try to put him against me by some of the experiences I had watched so far. My husband sit up in his chair & said they’ll be getting a third letter then. 😆 I also made him aware that they would require him to kick our youngest daughter out because she disassociated at the same time. He said they can’t tell me what to do in my own home. He hasn’t seen the crap I’ve seen & experienced as a female in the congregation. He’s never been big on studying & doing all the witness things. I think he’s afraid of Armageddon.
Isn't it interesting that Mark and Kimmy were charged with "causing divisions" yet it's the Witnesses in Mark's mom's congregation who keep causing divisions within their family. What kind of people do this?!
I'm so glad you're legal counsel to fight this! Watchtower has pushed us around long enough. All the best to you!
Insane people do this
typical behavior of indoctrination into a narcissistic cult.
We had a similar situation with our local congregation that we haven’t attended in over two years. They kept calling and leaving voicemails saying they had gotten some information and wanted to meet with us. I also had witnesses from all over stalking my social media accounts. I handled it by writing them a certified letter saying that I did not appreciate the elders or their wives stalking my social media accounts. I asked them to stop and told them that if any announcements were made regarding me on the platform I would be suing the individual elders on the judicial committee and those who had been stalking my social media. I think they realized I was not going to be an easy target and left me alone.
Hal E
Excellent!!
That’s when they lay back on their reasoning of “ok let’s wait on Jehovah” smh! Good job on standing up to them and not letting them bully and harass you!
Good on you!
Back in 1985 when I had faded, the elders were called out by the circuit overseer for not finding out what had happened to me. Although the elders I am sure knew, I had disappeared when I was offered no assistance or spiritual help when my husband was disfellowshipped for adultery, which then lead to divorce.
Two of the elders actually showed up at my place of work to try and speak with me. I was a teller in the drive up at a bank, and was absolutely shocked up when they tried to discuss my personal business from the walk up window, while my co-workers looked on. I told them this was not appropriate and they needed to leave me alone at work. Then they started stalking me at home. I never received any letters for a meeting, nor have I ever been disfellowshipped.
When I finally got caught by them at home, I asked them where had they been for the past year as I was going through a divorce and getting support from my “worldly” friends, because they were not there. I let them know I had no intention of returning, as they were hypocrites. Within a few years that congregation was dissolved and a number of elders were disfellowshipped.
Thank you so much for this Lloyd! One of my favorite parts of this interview was what both Mark and Kimmy responded when you asked them what their thoughts were on the prospect of being disfellowshipped for apostasy. Mark’s response was: “What a badge of honor to be
disfellowshipped for speaking out against the mishandling of child abuse in a corrupt involved Organization that fosters this kind of behavior.” And Kimmy concurred! Thanks so much, to all three of you, for giving us a voice!
Mark and Kimmy thank you for your courage, your grace and your reasonableness. You’re an example of what love thy fellow man. We are behind you... no, we stand beside you in solidarity
Watershed moments: Ray Franz's Crises of Conscience, The John Cedars YT Channel, The Australian Royal Commission and now Mark & Kimmy O'Donnell in the U.S. Can't wait to see what happens next.
Great Dayn wow! cannot wait to see what happens!!!!
@@alexflores9582 Right? 😁
Y'all are in some good company!
Absolutely!
When my wife’s son wanted to leave the JWs and come live with us, elders came looking for him. He had already told them he didn’t want to be bothered. They talked to my wife who hadn’t step foot in a Kingdom Hall in over 12 years. She told them she never believed the religion even though she had been baptized. They disfellowshipped her and her son the same night not long afterwards. Thanks for sharing this Lloyd and I’m so glad Mark and Kim are sharing their story on many platforms and fighting back. This will help people to see that people can take their power back and not lay down and take abuse from harmful people and organizations. 💪
Well done ODonnells. You have my support. Best wishes to your mom Mark.
The obsession with those that speak out and the stalking is unbelievable. I hope all of their activities are soon seen by congregation members. Thank you all for everything that you do. You are blazing a trail that will make it that will make it much easier for people that are beginning to wake up. Love to you all!!
I faded 25 years ago & when my husband passed away an elder came knocking on my door to give me his “condolences”... then he proceeded to ask me if I was ready to “come back to Jehovah” yet. I haven’t set foot in a KH since I faded!! I proceeded to tell him some of the things that’s been going on in the organization & he asked me if I was an apostate & left so fast that he was practically running.. lol It never ends!!!! 😳😬
I'd love to see that Elder's reaction if and when you have the opportunity to explain how Bethel Headquarters keeps its own apostate library down the hall from where the Governing Body meet at?😜🤣😉😂
Honest Conscience Dave - I doubt he will be back.. once they think you are an apostate... they run like the wind!
I am an animal activist/ cat rescuer. They told me I was wasting time. Ohhhhhhhhhhhh
Really?????
That is awesome. I'm currently looking for something to be passionate about to get the remaining wt. cob webs out of my head.
Faded & Forgotten47 look into your local humane society. That's how I started. I have been doing this over 30 years. It's rewarding bless you for your efforts. I love you!!
Fantastic! If you know my story, you know I do the same! We should chat!
Robin they remind me of the film men in black....only they were cool.😊
robin kishmiller
Ugh!!! Shame on them! I also am an animal activist and rescuer God put it in our hands to take care of his creation and that's what we are doing...just as he asked. Jws just "wait" for God to take care of everything so in my opinion they are going against what God asked us to do. Even with environmental issues they throw their hands up and wait on God to fix it all...they are not active members of society or the himan race. They are lazy and self righteous and it makes me so angry how they feel they have the moral high ground over everyone on the planet! Grrrr!
In their arrogance and power hungry disillusion they don't expect people to fight back.
It would be wonderful if this treatment will result in a legal precedent for harassment by the elders. The constant badgering of the O’donells and their mother is unacceptable. I hope they sue them into oblivion!
A jaw dropping and revealing interview of the underhanded and deceitful workings of the Watchtower Organisation ... Well done the three of you for a very informative broadcast... Thank you.. (Phil - ExJW - UK)
Plus the jaw-dropping horrid treatment inflicted on Mark's Mom when she is grieving. I bet all those insufferable jws who tried to blackmail Mom's Mom into not dining with Mark after the service feel terribly proud of themselves. Talk about not being Christian, how about not even rising to level of human decency. But yeah, the outside world is SO evil.
The way that elder's wife spoke to Mark's mother during that grieving is the most sadistic and pathetic thing a so called human could do to another. They have no heart or soul!!! That makes my blood boil!!!!
Call the police on these elders next time they harrase you and stalk you. This is an evil false cult. And they have no legal jurisdiction over you.
Agree! Call the cops. No-one has the right to harass you like that no matter what on your property or in the street.
Exactly, first visit by them they'd get fair warning! After that, my gloves are off! Good for you.
Kimmy and Mark are literally my favourite guests appearing on this channel. Well done guys for keeping strong and dealing with this situation like champs.
How kind. Thank you!
Mark and Kimmy, so sorry you are having to deal with this on top of your care giving. Glad you are standing up to these bullies. I was in a similar situation with my mother and her care, but no one tried to df me!
I had the elders track me down in a rehab to tell me that I was disfellowship. I haven’t been to the Kingdom Hall in three years.
I hope you’re doing well.
I’ve had my JC meeting for apostasy a few weeks ago even though I haven’t associated with the local congregation for over 3 years.
My charge was associating with a DF individual and for distributing leaflets bringing to light the JW rampant paedophillia problem and their shunning.
I appealed the decision but they upheld the DF on the grounds of apostasy.
Both meetings I secretly taped. It’s uploaded to RUclips under witness for Jesus RUclips channel.
The elders are running scared.
where can I listen to this tape?, please!!!
I’m glad that I woke up and left that organization. I will never step one foot in a Kingdom Hall again. Shame on them for attacking the victims.
Didn't the scribes and pharisees do the same thing in trying to hold an illegitimate trial with Jesus? And yet the elders are trying to do the same thing. Like Jesus said, "by their fruits you will recognize them".
Austin Perkins good point!
Talk about a David vs. Goliath story! We support you Mark and Kimmy! Watchtower messed with the wrong guy this time, sue their behinds for all us victims. Bless you Mark and Kimmy.
As a fellow child abuse survivor & an ex-JW I wanted to first say how sorry I am that this is the response Kimmy got after revealing her trauma history in the Atlantic article. You should have been congratulated for the courage to speak your truth rather than threatened with disfellowshipping. I read the article & watched both the videos with your stories thank you both for all your hard work in helping others. The response of the elders from your old congregation is so typical for men used to being in control of situations but nothing you said in the article was anything but honest & truthful. An organization built on lies & deception simply can't handle honesty or truth.
What an example of Conditional love that you’ll find in watchtower.
They loved me sooo much. We'd always be best friends, then when I started asking questions I was immediately cut off by everyone. Also, when my mom got sick, they all quit visiting her unless they needed service time. I know this because they told me. When they visited, they'd say, "don't worry about it, I'm pioneering and I needed time anyway.
Meryl Barnes ugh! I always hated that when going out with some in service. “Let’s stop by elderly sister so and so’s house” when you know good and well it’s so they can avoid door knocking and still count their time!
@@logicalreasoning4019Also Even when they are genually caring they are simply too busy to actually do anything to actually help fellow members
I've had similar experiences with elders, and thankfully they can't show up unannounced anymore since I moved. I haven't given anyone my address, so unless they manage to somehow figure out where I live I'm safe. It's ridiculous that they think they have the right to harass people. They somehow think the authority watchtower gives them somehow carries over into the real world. But once you leave, you realize that these guys have no actual authority over you unless you let them.
Thank you dear John Cedars for all your great work. Also to this dear couple you interviewed. This dear lady being abused by her own Mother. This is so heartbreaking. God bless her and her husband. Love and best wishes. Diane. R. Scigala.
I applaud the O'Donnell's for standing up to the Watchtower bullies! Thanks for publicizing this on your channel @Lloyd.
I had to pause this several times. So much to take in. So triggering, in parts. Truly, well done. I don't know how to express my appreciation for all that your team does.
Same happened to me!!!
I am sooooo upset about it!
I love that Marc Watney quote on your teeshirt, Lloyd.
Kimberley and Marc, you are truly heroes in the battle against the inhuman policies of the WT-cult.
Also I love Mark and Kimmy! You’re tenacity is such an inspiration for us all!
What a mess! Thank you Mark for your efforts on exposing all of this .... and your wife as well. You guys hang in there.
I haven't set foot in a KH since 2006. If some elders show up here, I'm sending my six ft nine, 350 lb husband to the door with his mountain man beard and hair to his waist, along with our pit bull, to say Hi. Hope they have their adult diapers on.
@J B he does wear size 19 shoes.
@@spellbound111 I do need my army boots on to kick their asses, though.
Im scared and i live in a different country!!!!
Thanks for everything you do Mark O'Donnell!
Who do these ppl think they are!!!!! They don't pay your bills!!! They think they have power over your life, yet if you were to grow old and were a life time faithful Witness and needed financial assistance, no one would come to your aid. These ppl are not Christian, Christians show love. These ppl have conditional love, they switch off immediately. Witnesses are liars, they will defend the org at any cost. They are dangerous.
Mark&kimmy all the best to you. Terrible what has happened, These elders have stooped so low
Awesome, awesome courage you both have! I've never been a jw but thanks to you all, and those who have formed part to expose the Watchtower, I'm never BECOMING a jw.
Lloyd, safe travels to here, in America. So close to such an awesome man. Welcome to Cali, and may you return home to your lovely family.
Years ago, I was summoned into the "back room" when I signed up to aux pioneer, as was my custom every other month. The elders explained that a person has to be exemplary to aux pioneer, but they heard that I was slandering Bro. "So & So", by saying that he was STALKING me. (They were trying to get me for slander.) I adjusted their accusation by saying that I had asked an ex-elder and his pioneer wife to help me deal with a brother that was violating my written instruction not to contact me in any way, that I had previously asked the Coordinator for help and he yelled at me, offering no help. I then said to the interrogating elders that I had never used the word STALKING, but that I had just that week contacted a Safe House and they said that Bro. "So & So" was violating most of the state stalking laws and to immediately contact law enforcement, (which I didn't). I gave the interrogating elders the phone number of the local Safe house so that they could verify the stalking laws. They began to speak in jest about STALKING and then laughing about it, ignoring me sitting there among them while I watched their antics . The back room meeting ended without further comment to me. They didn't announce my pioneering until mid month.
Long story short - I called the Circuit Overseer three times during this ordeal and when he came to visit, we had a back room meeting in which he actually came to my aid and corrected the elders, right in front of me. I was a recent widow and he was appalled by their treatment of me. He told horror stories about sisters who got no help and were told they couldn't get a restraint order because it would be "taking a brother to court", and how one sister was murdered and her family sued the congregation. However, my "help" was short lived as my loving shepherd elders slandered me unmercifully that week to the CO. After that I heard he never wanted to hear from me again. I was subsequently marked and I left that congregation that year. This was one of a series of events that lead to my disenchantment. By the way, the ex-elder who was trying to protect me got into trouble for protecting me from Bro. So & So.
I found out a year later that these same interrogating elders had been STALKING a single sister who they were trying to get into a back room kangaroo court, but she had stopped attending due to mental health issues (duh) and they had been banging on her door during the meetings (left the KH to do this) and that her neighbors were about to call the cops, it was so bad. She changed her phone number and they somehow got the number and continued to stalk her until they DF'd her without her attending their little court. I now get why they made jokes about STALKING. They love this behavior to bully and beat their sheep.
I had an elder, one , drop by two times, the first he came into my bedroom and closed the door, I’m bedridden from a stroke, so I was a bit foggy but I swear he did something bad, the second time my two family members were at the door do they opened it. And when he saw he couldn’t come in without bieng seen he turned and left, called me about half hr later and asked if he and another brother could drop. By, I said firmly no. Told him off another day and told him I don’t believe in ........ crazy stuff like overlapping generations. He didn’t come
Don't know why but I wasn't even a ministerial servant and an elder took me and another guy to who also wasn't an elder or an MS to creep on an inactive sister who I had never met. It almost seemed like we were there to intimidate her, three big watchtower goons looking for contraband or to find out if she's going to another church. She was like a 60 something year old lady too. My family is faded and they constantly came by for years.
So true
@@iamblessed3539 the standard procedure is creepy and intrusive but somehow it makes it worse when they go above and beyond. I guess he was training me for when I become an elder and have judicial committees or he needed two eye witnesses just so weird that he would do that. Christmas tree hunting as I call it lol
When I was undergoing the questions for baptism, the elder proudly told me he had heard a sister had a worldly boyfriend who would visit her. When they asked her, she denied it. This grown ass man tells me he hid in his car somewhere outside this sisters house to see the man creep in and shuffle out in the morning. I told him "Try that in MY neighbouhood nah!" He asked me what I meant. I told him in my neighbourhood, he would be dragged out of his car,and a proper cutarse would be put on him. He objected, saying he would contact the police.I said, "Who you think would be beating you?!!"
@@loisbiddy8248 how would an elder even explain to police what he is doing if the police find them spying on people? Like “sorry officer, I was here on a mission from God to see if that women over there has been having fornications”
It amazes me that when I was growing up I actually thought the elders’ behavior was completely acceptable. As an adult, I can’t imagine tolerating this type of harassment. The audacity of this cult is mind blowing!
I also accepted this behaviour by the elders. Now I see how preposterous and outrageous it all is!
For me it was a year. Someone saw me smoking and the elders wanted a meeting. Several calls and I was told I was still considered a part of the congregation. The only contact I had with anyone was with my mom. They finally disfellowshiped me and I felt lighter since.
Kristi Cutsinger smoking is harmful for your lungs but that your business. I am an alcoholic. I do attend A.A.
“Shepherd those who are in need of assistance” They are only worried about their own reputation.
Unannounced Pop-Up visits from Elders! Yup. Got them myself in 2018 after going to partake at the memorial for the first time in 25 years a JDub after waking up and after that March 31st partaking last year I talked to numerous JDubs in private about the child abuse issue and why professed Christians should partake. The elders banged on my door two weeks later at 7:00pm in the evening when I was away from home but my non-JW Aunt was staying there. She gave them my cell #, they called and a 40-minute conversation ensued starting with one of the elders stating "David, we're told you've been spreadin' stuff around". I brought up the child abuse cover-ups and the internal hidden JW pedophile database that has been given a number in the past of 23,720 by Bill Bowen of SilentLambs. They immediately started poo-pooing it to downplay it all and tried to change the non-flattering conversation to one of trying to get me NOT to pay attention to the child abuse problem and the elders started using emotional blackmail to assuage me to start "coming back to meetings and come out in service a little" with them.
Then I told them about their OWN INTERNAL APOSTATE LIBRARY Bethel Headquarters hides and they poo-pooed that by saying "that doesn't sound right". The conversation ended with the one elder stating "well it's one thing if the media says it but it's an issue that upsets the friends if you say it to them". I concluded by explaining that it's not rocket science to fix the child abuse problem by proactively calling the police and that these crimes never happen in front of two witnesses. We disconnected for some months.
Then two other elders showed up at my door later on the morning of October 23, 2018 right after I found out my JW ex-wife of 14 1/2 years suddenly passed away at 46 years of age in Chicago. Well these Wisconsin elders and NONE of the Wisconsin JW's even offered their condolences to me. No call, no text, no e-mailed, no cards, no "visits of concern". It's all about organization control and organizational bullying - from the top down. I get mistreated like this after two stints as a ministerial servant, being an accounts servant, giving public talks, and what I really loved to do as a moving overseer was helping JW friends get moved as they really needed help having to move to less costly apartments as rents were raised or building were converted to condominiums. These elders stalk in order to intimidate. It's time to "turn the spring garden hose sprinklers" on them when these elders themselves stalk and become uncivil harassing us. Or it's time to file police reports with restraining orders and attorneys legal actions against these JW elders like Joel Raniolo to make them STOP coming to our doors and BACK OFF!
Darn-tootin',
Just saying you need to turn up at there houses early in the morning and see how they like it!!!! This s*** has just triggered me be strong and don't give in to these Bully Boys.
I’m sorry to here about the manipulation some of the JDubs tried with your mother Mark. Stay strong both of you!
You guys should call the cops on them like the JW is do when they are doing cart witnessing and someone stands nearby with a sign that says it’s a cult. They don’t hesitate to call the cops on the apostates so maybe it’s time to turn the tables on them.🤷🏻♀️ obviously Mark and Kimmy are a lot nicer than I would be and have been!
agreed, I would have called the cops the second time they came back around. This is harassing.
I’ve had witnesses show up to my door looking for me uninvited. I believe at the time they probably got my address from my mother. She’s been deceased now for about a year and a half and I told him to take me off their list and not ever contact me again.
My mother passed my address on to Elders a few times as well. Ultimately After many years and having moved states a number of times She stopped trying.
I find this whole thing disgusting.
I can’t in good conscious not speak out when terrible behaviour like this is being conducted.
If they come after me I will make them regret it. I think this is the problem that these simple minded people have no idea who they are dealing with. Those who have left are the most courageous people I know. The more they push us the more attention they will receive as to the disgusting behaviour they are doing.
Leopold Theseconed yes. It’s the boldness that comes from entitlement that they are on the side of Good and Truth, and those opposed are on the side of Bad and Wicked. With thinking like that, anything is justified.
Leopold Theseconed
Yeah!!
Mara Fayde
Omg! Exactly! They are so arrogant because they believe they have God as their back up and we are all just garbage...so they behave in such ungodly ways...and they cant even see it! so much for loving thy neighbor.
It is disgusting. It's really annoying. But give some men power and they start acting like they're gods. But as soon as you stand up to them, they start acting like scared rats.
@@tanyadepoalo9085 4
Greetings Lloyd, Mark And Kimmy, THANK YOU FOR RECOUNTING, YOUR CRUEL EXPERIENCE....I hold you in my thoughts, as DEAR and KIND LOVING PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR A BETTER FUTURE FOR ALL....I saw some of this....”BEHAVIOR”......I know of ones, who went through something, similar......My Mother and I were targeted by a Congregation Overseer...IT IS A...” SICK, TWISTED, OUTRAGEOUS CULT”....I now have given this disgusting organization....NEW TITLES....”WATCHTOWER MAFIA”....”EIGHT GOVERNING WARLORDS”....”THE WET TEAM”...which is the...ELDERS...”WANNA BE WET TEAM”....Ministerial Servants”....and then...”Last in Line”....NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.....”THE SLAVES WHO ARE IN BONDAGE TO ALL THESE LEVELS”....THANK YOU AGAIN...”I APPRECIATE ALL YOU ARE DOING”.... Sincerely, Patricia A.E.T-Pierson
I am sorry that you went through this awful treatment and I admire your courage in reaching out to people and telling your story. In my case, the elders tracked me all the way from the east coast of the US to the west coast trying to get me to "come back to Jehovah." I told them never to call or contact me in any way again, or I would call the police and file a complaint, and then I would sue them for harassment. Problem solved!
CERTIFIED LETTERS. They think they are in charge.
I’m an ex JW. I was sexually abused. It didn’t come from anyone in the Kingdom Hall.
When I started to leaving I was followed all over town. They banged on my door, talked to my neighbors about me. I finally sent a letter to disassociate from the congregation.
I’ve had a wonderful life every since then.
It’s ridiculously disgusting behavior on behalf on the organization. (Faded JW-Houston, TX, USA)
Just adding my voice to these comments...firstly well done to Mark and Kimmy, you have ALL the power here, stand up to these bullies, we all support you!
Secondly, we've been bullied by an elder, and I genuinely feared physical abuse from him. Long story, but eventually he left us alone, but it was a scary time.
Thanks Lloyd and Mark and Kimmy and ALL people who stand up to bullies
Mark & Kim are legends as far as im concerned. That article they were featured in by The Atlantic was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. They played a part in helping SO MANY people because of that article. I’m so thankful for their work and their courage.
Micro managers. That's exactly what elders are. You can't poop without being monitored. Sorry folks but it is what it is.
Just like the "Curb Your Enthusiasm" episode with Larry David's bathroom visits being monitored by the secretary played by Tia Carrere. Google it. Hilarious on TV, extremely offensive and personally infringing when that happens in Corporate America and Watchtower is admittedly very much a Corporation.
I agree with one comment. The next time elders follow you, call the police. As a women, with two men following me, unsolicited, not relatives, I'd call the police. Period. With all the bad press or the sexual assaults and child molestations, I'd use that to my advantage. Really, you don't know what they are up to anyway. Thank God I left this cult when a young girl and decided to go to (and graduate from) college. They would be messing with the wrong person now. It'd call the police and ask for a restraining order.
Bravo to Mark & Kimberly!
reminds me so much of my own congregation. i was sexually abused by the pastor in more than one hundred cases over a period of two years, and i am still receiving threats from the congregation to keep my mouth shut. as we are more than one hundred victims of this one person over a period of some twenty years that he was kept in teaching youth and leading youth groups, the overall scandal was made public, and the church held a socalled mass of reconsiliation. the most ridiculous thing i can think of. the entire purpose of that mass was to burry the scandal by reconsiling the congregaton with the church leaders lies that nothing happened and that the victims were liars. of course no victims were invited. i would not have come as i am still so traumatized that i am unable to enter a church without flashbacks of the abuse overwhelming me.
Shocking indeed but this is apparently how low these people will stoop to cover their behavior. So glad to hear that you have obtained legal counsel Mark and Kimmy we know you both will hold this Organization and its Stooges fully accountable. Thanks for all you both do, it is always a pleasure to follow along and benefit from your research.
Mark’s cat is very cute, but I might suggest getting a big scary dog to help scare those hired goons away!
Obviously, I found the page. I really admire this couple. Thanks, Lloyd.
Jaw dropping yet unsurprising. Thanks for sharing your experiences Mark and kimmy. Another excellent interview Lloyd.
I did call the police, all they could say was there was no evidence who it was, but logged it for future reference. Also took pics of damage to my door. Yes typical evidence of ' Christian love' . I'm very relieved to be out of it. And feel sad for the three people I studied with who accepted what I was teaching them. 😔
This is so encouraging. Thank you for standing up for child abuse victims.😃
What would happen if everyone just said no to shunning for any reason? What if people responded with “I’m calling my lawyer” as anyone in an interrogation room would?
Spooky. How can you guys keep so calm ? My blood would boil ?
Ah yes...the "unconditional" conditional love...been at the receiving end of it myself. Really set the ball rolling towards my waking up.
This is infuriating and fuels me even more to speak up. Thanks for your courage and perseverance.
Thank you Mark and Kimmy for all your activism and dedication to making more people aware of the horrible child abuse in all cults but especially the WBTS. Also, I resent when the JW’s just show up at my door. No respect!
Mark and Kimberly sorry you have to go through this. It is our worst fear when caring for our aged JW parents during our fade. You guys are legends!
Mark and Kimmy thank you for your courage and standing up for others. I only wish I would have had someone like you with me at the time of my disfellowshipping. (However, I will NEVER go back.) Elders called me a liar. Said I didnt do enough and I was made an example.
Mark you’re my hero. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for this informative sequence. I am hold heartedly with you Kimmy and John for your resistance towards the watchtower’s bullying and I will continue to support your work. You are helping so many people as well as Lloyd to find freedom from that cult that is suppressing people from expressing themselves. And most of all those who were abused and shut down now are able to express themselves, no matter what, they are able to find freedom and hopefully go on with their lives...that is powerful! 👏👏 Thank you for your relentless work!
They are so used to these things going to script for them where everyone goes along with their unquestionable power, and decisions. The arrogance is breathtaking. Did they really think they would just turn up for separate judicial meeting?? The tide is changing and people are standing up to them and exposing the bullying. Thank you Mark, Kimmy and Lloyd amazing work.
I am honestly shocked that there has not been a mass shooting or some sort of a physical attack on an elder or elders that have destroyed someone's family
Well done for not giving into the pressure from bullies! You have my support and admiration...!
@MarkODonnell @KimberlyODonnell so very sorry that you & your family are having to deal with this. I appreciate you sharing your story and hope that justice will prevail!
If you have 1 party consent in your state, you also need to get an android phone and a good Call Recorder app if you havent already
Thank you for protecting children. They are truly a gift from God. I’m so sorry your wife was abused. Praying for her healing and comfort.
Why does joel not follow their advice to "be courageous", "be bold"... why run in your house and hide!? Pathetic
Yeah, I thought (as Mark was conveying in this video what happened) he should have shouted out, "Be Courageous!" at Joel's cowardness. Oh, L'esprit de l'escalier
.
[BIG SMILE] I just read the piece in The Atlantic...stellar!
Thank you so very much Mark & Kimmy! My utmost respect & admiration to both of you! 🥰
Wow! Before I read any comments...I just want to say how much we appreciated this video, a lot! We are in a similar situation to Mark and Kimmi, not activists, yet, but faded and already have a plan in case of harassment. So thankyou for pointing out the extreme lengths elders will go to. We've a number of local JWs disfellowshipped and disassociated recently. All three of you.......Keep up the good work! Cheers M & S
I really enjoyed reading Mark and Kimmy’s article in The Atlantic. I had no idea about it until a friend of mine (non-JW) posted it on Facebook. I made sure to let him know that (based on my experiences) everything in the article was absolutely accurate.
Any link please?
Where is the empathy? Do they have basic knowledge how to handle others in their flock? Or do they just follow some instructions given on paper?
My wife and I are currently in hiding because of the same thing.
Efrain Rivera Junior hope you’re both ok, stay strong
@@mariemcintosh9268 - We will be OK, in time.
I was harassed by elders also. They even went round to my back door, banging hard on the glass door. They thumped on my kitchen windows as well.
My husband finally had enough. And sent them on their way. There were 2 of them of course.
That was his introduction to Jehovah's Witnesses. He still talks about it to others, 20 years after the fact.
Great marketing skills.. ha!
We were recently disfellowshiped. I don't know what the reason in their records are, but I think it's for apostasy, because we told elders why we were leaving. We were stalked and watched for a long time before.
Why didn't you just formally withdraw or delete yourself from the record, why let that go on, I don't get it. It's part of leaving, shutting the door behind you. I'm not JW but this is all dramatic for lack of taking care of business on the part of the people leaving, no?
@@freshbeanne because when you do that, all of your family and friends treat you like you're dead. It's devastating enough realizing that your whole belief system for your entire life is a lie. This can push a person to suicide.
Meryl Barnes That's exactly it. There needs to be a support group. We lose all our family and friends and are shunned if we leave publicly. It's horrible. That's why we just try to fade.
Stand up to bullies!!!!
Thank you for standing up to these bully's
You are right when you say that most JW's have no idea how to handle these matters. I found it more simple to give them what they wanted. I just wrote a letter to the local hall and told them not to call, write, or visit my home and that I wanted to be disassociated. It was the best thing I ever did. Wish I had done it a long time ago.
I also experienced the loving-kindness of non-Witnesses recently. I missed out on so much due to indoctrination and it's taking me years to 'de-program'. Also, recently my mum ('still-in') was severely ripped-off by a fellow-Witness-tradesperson. Oh the irony! Do you know if it's true that you're 'discouraged' from taking other JWs to court, or otherwise risk disfellowship? Love your channel, Lloyd.
So they are coming after you two because you both have choosen not to be in the religion anymore and want to make people aware of the horrific acts going on in the religion, but they cant go to the police to protect an innocent child who was a victim of a serious crime. Wow, this is twisted and sick.
This is all very creepy! I remember when a young woman that was in my congregation and I was still mentally in, was leaving and returning to the Catholic Church. They, the elders, seemed to stalk this young woman reaching out and speaking to people in her life to find out information. It was all very creepy thinking back on it but at the time again I was mentally in so I just blocked it out with cognitive dissonance. But perhaps their determination to pin down Mark and Kimmy is to bring about a judicial hearing because they feel that it is of the utmost importance to keep the congregation "clean". They, jws, seem to be obsessed with keeping the congregation "clean". If there is someone that is a known "apostate" they may worry that this is blocking Jehovah's Holy Spirit into the congregation. But if this is the case I would think that for the elders the article in the Atlantic would be sufficient proof of apostasy and they could just disfellowship without Mark and Kimmy being there. I know that I was told that if I didn't appear at my judicial committee they had enough proof to disfellowship me without my being there.
From what I'm reading you're still in you're still mentally in
It's all Character assassination and slander on the part of the JW organization's policies and these elders behaviors in these matters.
I was announced at the meeting with NO judicial, no letter, no notification.....NOTHING! No accusation, no proof...only hearsay. I never got a chance to speak or defend myself. Marc and Kimmie will be d/f'd regardless. Just like I was.
@@lynnentler5725 oh God. Absolutely not. Maybe some things take longer to deprogram from but it is a cult and I wasted some of the best years of my young life believing otherwise.
@@Aylysh sorry to hear that. They are just terrible. As I watch the video I see that they bullied me like they did Mark and Kimmy. I mean I certainly did go against their strict belief system so I accepted it at the time but I can see it was strong arm bully tactics.
Hi, just thought you might like a laugh. My wife and I have relatives that live in Scotland. They are former JW's. So when I clicked on your clips I became interested. You should also know I watch The Atheist Experience. I have no interest in religion or really care. But yesterday I had a knock at the door. And to my surprise it was two ladies an old one and a young one in her 20's. So being the wise guy I am I set the bate. I asked the elder lady if she knew about the guy spending money on booze. She claimed ignorance, so I told her the story. She claimed it was ok to buy booze. I then asked if they kicked out people for being drunk. She admitted that. So I asked what was the guy going to do with that much booze. The younger lady started to laugh. She then stepped into the free will trap. I called her out and the young lady thought this was even funnier. I then pointed out that in the bible Jesus made more wine at the wedding. So Jesus was in fact encouraging drunkeness. Because he created more wine after all the wine was drunk. This made the old lady real flustered. The young lady was just about to bust a gut. I don't think they ever encounter people who actually read books and research facts.