The Russian Ban - Episode 3 - Watchtower: In Focus (with Steven Hassan)
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- In the third episode of Watchtower: In Focus the JWsurvey team interviews cult expert and former Moonie Steven Hassan and gets his thoughts on the looming ban of Jehovah's Witnesses in Vladimir Putin's Russia.
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Thanks Steven Hassan! When I listen to you it always makes me so happy. I see that I am not the only idealist in this world. I hope to be as good as you are in helping to educate ppl some day. Thank you thank you for taking the time to be interviewed!
it can really make you sick right? To feel like you now in your heart your right but pressured to do wrong.
Hey Lloyd, thank your for your great videos and especially this one with Steven Hassan. Even though I think you made some unwise decision regarding communicating your point of view on the ban, I agree with most of it. I just decided to post my first video today after waking up during the last 6-9 Months. Would love to hear your thoughts!
There's one point you said, maybe in another video, I have to highlight here: I stopped watching most of the apostate videos after a couple of seconds during my wake up phase because of their attitude and aggressive message. But your videos helped a lot. Thank you!
Cheers from Filling the Bookshelf
Imagine...
15 or 16 yr old Russian boy, not keen on being a Jw just too young to stand up to his parents about it, ban comes and he's dragged along to underground meetings and gatherings with the risk of being attacked or thrown in jail.
Seems abit heartless to be happy to see that happen to people like that cause I'm sure there are people in Russia in that situation and given more time they'll start researching things for themselves
This was such a great episode. I was so glade that Steven Hassan was able to come on and share his perspective. There were so very many great points through out. I'm a huge believe in teaching social and emotional skills within schools, with the sort of programs advocated for by experts in the field of psychology and human development like Daniel Goleman, Daniel Siegel and others. Then making sure that the concepts of undue influence are also taught to help children grow into adult who are capable of recognizing individuals or groups of any type that function in a abusive or controling fashion. Schoolis about the only way you are going to get to the eight year olds who are getting baptised as long as they are allowed to actually go to public schools.
when my mum was a chaplin at a hospital a man came in from some kinda of accedent (it was 20 years ago) and the family busted into the O.R to prevent a blood transfusion. The surgeons had to stop due to contamination. The man died due to the interuption... the doctor said he probably didnt even need blood.
Thank you for speaking some sense about this issue. I can't understand why anyone would think that the ban is a good thing. Keep up the good work
Steven Hassan's psychological insights prompted me to recall a statement made by one of the professional facilitators at my first workshop with International Cultic Studies association for second generation cult survivors. It was asserted that our experience with our respective cults had deeply ingrained sadomasochistic patterns on our psyches. The claim was startling and very credible. Given the likelihood that this is the actual case, it behooves would-be activists to get therapy or examine themselves. I fully agree with Steven Hassan that LOVE, LOVE, LOVE is the way to deal with people still in a cult.
Thank you for quoting the poem from Niemöller. Since I was raised as a JW in Germany I know that a ban and persecution creates martyrs and a stronger feeling of identity. Even 40 yrs after my mother used to visit Dachau with me to remember how JWs suffered during Nazi Germany. We were very proud of them, and the JW organization in my opinion used this part of its history to show the JWs in a better picture.
Forgotten the letter sent to Hitler and many other details.
This is one of the reasons why I'm against a possible ban in Russia.
one more thought, which will earn me mega points, no doubt, is this -
there are many places in the earth, like El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras,
where being baptized into Jehovah's witnessess will be one of the more positive things to happen to you...
Now, before you unload your 'moonie-made' machine gun into my already lifeless corpse...
I say this as an ex-jw, an elder, bethelite and 25 year man (still waiting for my watch),
who did not try to talk my children into being baptized, but just waited until they wanted to talk about it (which they never did). The closest thing was when my daughter asked if I was a carpenter by trade because Jesus was.
Lloyd, I don't understand the hate between ex jws. it really turns me off. I think your logical reasoning is absolutely the way to go. I hate the anger , reasoning is absolutely the best way. whatever Peoples opinion, let's respect all.
makes me very wary of the other ex jws. they show as much hate as I've encountered in any other walk of life. not good. keep true to yourself . x
he minute the hate and resentment starts, u loose your case. any educated person knows this . peace✌
I completely agree with you. I've been going back and forth with this issue, but this is simply as clear cut as it can be. I've been following Lloyd from the beginning of my exit, and while I've tried to watch others, the anger they spew just turns me away. I understand their anger, I'm angry at times also, but there's a better healthier way to express it. Some of these people have been out for quite some time, and yet still spew so much anger and abusive name calling one minute and in the very next breath say they still love these people still in. I think Steven Hassan is right, it's time to get counseling. It's sad when people view counseling as a negative thing. When you've been in an abusive, controlling cult for so long, I think it's a natural thing to get counseling after exiting. It's not a negative thing. These people could be so helpful if they got beyond the anger, because they do have so much to give. I honestly believe they care about JW's as they exit this cult, but believe me, as someone just leaving, I assure you the GB eat this up. They love the dissension that's going on in the ex JW community.
i think it is because of all the crimes related to jws, and personally, i have been through the religion. They dont give you much of a choice to leave or else they give you nothing and boot you out of the house. lots of homeless kids, most likely to be related to the jw controversy
glad to be able to watch a video with intelligent discussion without someone waving a gun around.
I love it when you have Covert and John and guest video discussions. It helps me to consider all aspects. I am still a JW but not 'active' although I do attend some meetings. My JW family and friends have no idea how I feel. I feel trapped within my double life. But these sorts of discussions strengthen my resolve not to cave in to pressure to conform.
17:30 To Steven Hassan's point: I don't think it's all that important that JWs use their own translation of the bible. In Russia, they had been using the official translation done by the Russian Orthodox church up until 2000s. Didn't make any difference. They were still indoctrinated in Watchtower teachings just fine, didn't make them Russian Orthodox. So, if you show JWs The King James translation it won't melt them. lol The texts aren't that different.
19:30 Although SH is right that the label of "extremism" is just an excuse to ban JWs, he's missing the real point. Putin is a former KGB agent, Soviet Union didn't happen too long ago. JWs were banned in USSR as well, the reason for the ban then and now is the same: JWs are considered CIA operatives. No matter how ridiculous it sounds, that's how the gov. REALLY views them. Their totalitarian organization and strict hierarchy doesn't do them any favors in disproving this view, either. lol
Another reason why SH's theory of making Russian Orthodox the only religion is wrong is that Russia is 15% Muslim, has Muslim ethnostates within itself, as well as some Buddhist ethnostates. And still, most people I know are either atheist/agnostic or non-denominational New Age types.
Btw, official explanation: they are called "extremist" because they preach they are the only true religion and everyone other than JW will be killed.
As a Gay American exJW I can't support the actions of the Russian government that has such a bad record on human rights.
Scott Peterson The reason the Russian government is banning all of these groups is because the Russian Orthodox Church, which is used as a propaganda arm of Putin's dictatorship, wants ZERO competition for members. I am an atheist and I am against this ban.
Then you sir are a clucking lunatic! The Watchtower has been lying, manipulating, stealing, raping children for over 100 years with the FEAR of dis-fellowshiping from their parents! AT ANY AGE... this is a horrific criminal act. It's idiots like you who should be JAILED in a time of war to save children!
I agree with you. I do not support a ban.... It is really NOT about helping people....It is Putin! Those people are being used and the Watchtower society will see them in jail used as an example for being pious and to set an example. This ban is not about exposing the injustices of a cult rather it is a political ploy by Putin to keep the plebs in line..
When I first listened to this and read the hateful comments, I couldn't understand it. Then I realized not one of these haters even mentioned Steven Hasaan's comments. A very successful, brilliant cult expert who actually respects Lloyd Evens...then I was able to see it. I've never seen so much petty jealousy over one man in my life! Yes, he's a successful activist, author and speaker with well over 12k followers. Shouldn't ALL activists be proud of his success? I've never heard him refer to himself as the only activist out here. I do not believe these haters are activists at all. They all say it's ok to have differing opinions, but when Lloyd expresses them, they all go on a rampage. It's sad and pathetic to see such childish jealous people making complete fools of themselves, to the point of ridiculing someone's appearance?? I think every jealous hater out there needs a good boost of manners and counseling.
Well said! I've watched some of these other videos. They are so childish attacking Cedars with youtube videos and comments. Those who are thinking of leaving and watch some of those videos will think exjws are crazy. Cedars has done so much good exposing the WT. You are right they are jealous.
You guys are the absolute best!
Thanks for another great video in this series.
I love his message of LOVE LOVE LOVE when strategizing on how to behave in your activism. He’s so right - help yourself FIRST before helping others.
Steven Hassan? AWESOME! Haven't even got past the title yet but I know this is gonna be good. Reading the latest edition of Combatting Cult Mind Control, which is an excellent book.
'The Holocaust Lessons' looks like an interesting book. Don't know what percentage of beaten children then do not stand up against wrongs when in such an intense situation as 30's nazi-ism but corporal punishment does not necessarily lead to compliance. I was attacked as a child regularly (to the point of the possibility of death) and it made me MORE likely to stand up against wrongs as I know the dangers of injustice. In my adult like I have risked my own health, liberty and freedoms in order to try and stop societal doctrines which are threatening lives.
Thank for you passionate point of view. You seem very strong in the truth, but I must ask. The Society has warn the friends against visiting apostate or ex JW sites. Why are you risking your standing with the congregation by commenting on this channel? No judgement just curious.
I'm still confused about the blood thing. wt says that blood transfusions aren't needed in most cases, all you need is volume that can be supplied by a saline solution. is this incorrect?
Rwssel the body makes its own blood cells in a short time. so I'm not sure if you're accurate on that point.
wt says it's more important that the volume of the circulatory system is maintained so it can circulate correctly.
+Sourcedrop - Your phrase "circulate correctly" is the key statement. The heart, itself, is the pump of circulation and is a body organ that lives by oxygen-feed. Only whole blood can carry and deliver oxygen-feed to the heart so it can "circulate correctly" to the whole body. Vascular volume by other than blood, deprives and will slow, even stop, the capacity of the heart to pump as it should. Impaired heart-beating will give rise to every manner of body malfunction. Hope this helps.
I guess we're all right lol. I found an article that discusses this. what I'm understanding is that a blood transfusion is only required when there has been massive blood loss to the point where red blood cell count is too low to oxygenate stuff.
if blood loss is minimal to moderate then all a person needs is a blood volumizing solution because the heart can't pump blood if the volume isn't high enough. that has nothing to do with oxygen or red blood cell count, just fluid volume.
in those cases they can also give you growth hormone so that your body increases production of more red blood cells but this takes time and would be ineffective if blood loss was too high.
www.cancer.org/treatment/treatments-and-side-effects/treatment-types/blood-transfusion-and-donation/blood-transfusion-alternatives.html
Yes, I believe we have it right...lol. You make the great point that massive blood loss requires a solution-feed. This, to my understanding, is primarily to prevent vascular collapse. Nothing will work if the veins collapse, but at the same time the heart needs to be fueled by oxygen-feed to pump adequate circulation to keep everything else going. There is a heart-organ-specific protein-enzyme called troponin that works in the lower chamber of the heart to indicate too much or too little electric salts, such as potassium. The heart actually runs on electricity and the beating rhythm must be correct. Rhythmic firing of the electric salts does that, and only blood itself can supply the heart with both the regulator-enzymes and the electric salts. Without getting too deep into this, good circulation must be maintained in the patient at all times, because the heart's supply of adequate electric salts depends on the distribution action of those salts by the Loop of Henle in the kidneys. The heart is, indeed, the well-spring of life. I would say that doctors insist on blood to do at least two jobs at the same time: Prevent vascular collapse and to maintain delivery of oxygen, proteins, and electric sales. I'm not sure the average JW is even aware of this life-giving mechanism, much alone its necessity. Amen.
so if i understand it correctly now, a person can lose a little blood with no issues. they can loose a moderate amount of blood or an alarming amount of blood, and either way medical personnel will want to give a blood transfusion.
but if you lose a moderate amount of blood you don't need a transfusion, you just need volumizers, but few medical personnel are equipped with those volumizers so you'll need the transfusion even though you don't "need" it.
back in my wt days i thought blood wasn't needed in any situation because of the alternatives. tbh, i never did research the blood stuff when i was a jw. which is strange because i read the insight books from cover to cover and spent 100s of hours on the wt library. but even while i was in wt i was using the same blood card i was using from the early 90s, you could hardly see what it was, and about a year before i left i just threw it away.
kinda strange, my reaction, but i guess they weren't really giving all the facts in the first place. i used to be a blood transfusion alternative warrior lol. i thought it was so superior. but i guess that wasn't the case.
Thank you for a calm, logical and reasoning in point on the JW ban.
Hi, this is Lori Hightower Sanders, I have been one of 'Jehovah's Witnesses' for quite some time now, I just wanted to say that everyone has a right to their own opinion in life because Jehovah God did give us free will to make our own choices! And know matter what anyone has to say that is very heartbreaking toward my brothers and sisters, will be greatly forgiven, because Jehovah God taught us to love not to judge and to hate one another! Jehovah and our Lord Jesus Christ did a great act of Love for each and everyone of us, by Jehovah giving his precious Son Jesus in our behalf so that we might have life in a new world of peace and serenity without war and death and sickness! No more crying nor pain be anymore! The meek shall inherit the earth forever! Satan, who is lying to the whole inhabited earth, the one that is causing all of the pain and disgust right now will soon be destroyed! The world is lying in the power of the wicked one until Jehovah our God brings in His Kingdom Government upon earth as it is in Heaven! And He has appointed us a King to be Ruler over us and that is Jesus Christ, ruling from Heaven!!! We as Jehovah's Witnesses forgive those who persecute us! Jesus stated that if they will persecute Him, they will also persecute the ones who follow Him! Walk In Jesus footsteps! Jesus always looked to His Father, Jehovah God the Almighty over all the earth for all of the answers He needed! Jesus said: Forgive those who persecute you and your Father in Heaven will also Forgive you!!! Everyone can say what they will, ones who love and do not judge, Jehovah looks upon with loving approval! And We JW, and I myself as one one of Jehovah's Witnesses, Forgive as our Heavenly Father also Forgave us! Thank You, 'JW' Lori Hightower Sanders
in the 43rd minute ( thanks, guys for being patient and deferring to Steve's insights ),
he starts to talk about how an individual relates to the cult and that may be the key to understanding, and Unlocking the closed mind. Each of us joins - whatever - for perceived value. What did I join for ? ...you ? ...her/him ? ? ?
Only when we start to follow the weave and threads will the puzzle unravel.
"When you're first starting school you don't fully understand why you're not saluting the flag." When you're first starting school do you fully understand why you ARE saluting the flag? We need just as much reason to engage in an activity, as we do to abstain from an activity. I would tell my child not to salute the flag because they didn't understand what they were saluting and what it meant. I do, however, see that it is different when a child is expected to explain that they are doing it for a religion, and thus under pressure to then DEFEND something they don't understand.
Thank you for such an enlightening and reasonable discussion.
I still attend meetings as a dfsd person for various reasons one begin it helps me to keep my finger in the pulse about currant events and "new light" that keeps coming forward and to critically examine the flaws. Just how effective the governing body is able to control the message emerged just before the ban where an elder said in effect from the platform regaring the ban "you can be sure that "apostates" will be rubbing their hands with glee". I sat there sad that there is no meaningful mechanism in place to challenge such a wrongful assumption. And every "obedient" friend will go away thinking "if it's come from the platform, it is true. Even that elder himself will possibly not have researched it to find out if that really was the case because of breaking the "no research rule". Hence one more lie goes unchallenged.
Lloyd, it would be great to see the XJW you tubers do a video together discussing the Russian ban and sharing the differences of opinion! What are the chances you could get together with a couple of them via online video to discuss?
one of the things I discovered after leaving wt was that so much of the things they did such as convention formats, and so much of how they talk, is almost a carbon copy of other christian denominations. this floored me. it told me that wt was in those other groups too and keeping up on the best ways to execute their religious ideas.
this came to mind when you guys were talking about wt hiring trolls to get on the internet for them and the like.
The moonies. I remember my uncle telling me my religion was similar to them. If I had any knowledge of them I would have been surprised to find out that they are frighteningly a like. I have also noticed how narcissistic cult leaders can be.
Deep, compelling conversation.
Hey Lloyd, thank your for your great videos and especially this one with Steven Hassan. Even though I think you made some unwise decision regarding communicating your point of view on the ban, I agree with most of it. I just decided to post my first video today after waking up during the last 6-9 Months. Would love to hear your thoughts!
There's one point you said, maybe in another video, I have to highlight here: I stopped watching most of the apostate videos after a couple of seconds during my wake up phase because of their attitude and aggressive message. But your videos helped a lot. Thank you!
Cheers from Filling the Bookshelf
Excellent! I was wondering what Steve Hassan would have to say about this ban.
Great video! Thanks xx
Thank You!
Excellent interview, Lloyd. Thank you all for your 'big picture' approach.
Would an opposing view discussion be a consideration for a future video? Someone's differing opinion/view not fueled by emotion but a different perspective? I've visited two channels Christian Katja and Julian Watson. Interesting . 🤔❓
As a rule of thumb, if Steven Hassan think its right, its right.
Your cult programming is coming along nicely.
I've never been in a cult nor been a jw
Did anyone catch the name of the BBC Documentary on the Moonies? I'd like to check it out.
Alex Medina Bright. emperor of the universe
It's here: watch?v=u1KruPlKi68
Thanks, both of you!
Holding a SIGHN in hopes that some will research a site out of curiosity I'm not against but behavior is important. A quiet temperament is best. These people are only going to respond to a peaceful demonstration.
First Australia and now Russia! - Her "HOUR" of judgment has arrived!
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Revelation 18:10
while they stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and say, ‘Too bad, too bad, you great city, Babylon you strong city, because IN ONE HOUR YOUR JUDGMENT HAS ARRIVED!'.
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Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her,* MY PEOPLE *, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues.
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Romans 9:25-26
It is as he says also in Ho·se´a: “Those not my people I will call ‘* MY PEOPLE *,’ and her who was not beloved ‘beloved’; 26 and in the place where it was said to them, ‘YOU are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”
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[Name of person] is no longer a Jehovah's Witness --> ‘YOU are not my people,’
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Everything Jesus Christ said would happen, is really happening!
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If a Jehovah's Witness now wants to put faith in Jesus Christs commandment they will have to do so with losing their entire family as a consequence:
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Mark 10:29-30
Jesus said: “Truly I say to YOU men, No one has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the good news 30 who will not get a hundredfold now in this period of time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and fields, with persecutions, and in the coming system of things everlasting life.
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The wheat is being separated from the chaff!
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Luke 12:56
Hypocrites, YOU know how to examine the outward appearance of earth and sky, but how is it YOU do not know how to examine this particular time?
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Jesus Christ is AWESOME!
John Cedars & Steve Hassan < 0
No offense at all to Steven as he is very knowledgeable and has some very perceptive ideas but when it comes to JWs he seems very out of touch with how they think and what motivates them. His advice is still good tho. Not all cults are the same and the thinking and tactics can be employed quite differently. The sincerity of JWs is what gives them the most power. And unlike many other cults I believe that sincerity goes all the way to the top. I have worked with DO and COs and met GB members, I have lifelong Bethelite family members and they really are convinced they are right and want to help others live. The problem is they are wrong not that they are malicious. They need truth delivered to them in a similar form that they are used to. Employ the same reasonableness that the Watchtower tries to use. Use the Bible, use the reasoning of the Watchtower, we were taught blind faith is wrong and faith is based on evidence. Do so lovingly and compassionately so they can transition despite the loss of knowing that they may die permanently because the realizations are incredibly painful.
Steven Hassan expressed surprise at learning that some Ex JWs are in support of a ban in Russia. But I find it surprising that a psychologist with 41 years experience in the field should be surprised by their reaction. Many ex witnesses have suffered major trauma and abuse for many years, some in their 60s+ have given their whole lives to the Watchtower. It is devastating to wake up and realise your whole life has been spent serving a counterfeit pseudo religion. Many suffer guilt on waking up to the realisation that they have raised children in a restrictive manipulative cult I don't agree/disagree with the ban. But I can quite understand that the anger and emotional stress many feel makes them pro ban. That that these ones want a ban "even if it means a lot of family and friends and other innocent people persecuted or jailed" is a bit of a straw man argument. Whatever anyone's opinion, Russia will make its own decision on whether to ban or not to ban.
Damn you guys, stop interrupting each other.. It takes away from the content so much. Otherwise fascinating.
Namaste ❤️ Instagram @ iamloveiam