Hi, I've just watched your video and related to your experiences. I'm a 56 year old mechanic (fed up with cars) and can't believe the farcical education system especially with "qualified apprentices" in my trade. I'm currently installing 2 Ecodan heatpumps and seriously considering a career change. I would appreciate a conversation with you how to go about a transaction.
Thanks, great video, it fills me with confidence knowing that there are people like you trying to build things up when the mainstream media are trying hard to tear things down, keep it up.
Great video, and some interesting insights, especially the things about MCS, and how to handle things in future. My only (minor) gripe is the comparison at around 21:20. Where because leccy is 3.5x gas, a heat pump needs to achieve a SCOP of 3.5. It works in simple terms, but for most in the UK, gas boilers are likely (according to OVO) running at about 84% efficiency. So to break even with gas, a heat pump would only need a SCOP of 3. Obviously, every system is different, and I haven't seen anyone doing a proper test in actual gas efficiency in the same way openenergymonitor has been used for heat pumps.
@@BenIsInSweden absolutely and if I did a deep dive into that subject at 21.20 I could probably bore everyone for another hour 🤣 but yes I agree gas boilers are iro 85% efficient at best so yes your comparison is probably more accurate. Thanks for the positivity 🙂👍
Just watched your video with interest, had a verbal estimate for heat pump to replace a ageing combi. £15500 for a heat pump £2000 for a replacement combi, is someone having a laugh😂
One verbal estimate...? I had 2 estimates... 1 at 18000 and one at 11000, both with heat pump grant off and both for an entire wet system as no rads installed. Get another quote.
Same problem, installation costs are a joke. I had a quote last week £16,372 and that didn't include any emitter (radiatior) work. Absolute joke! The worst part is the installer was making huge profits on the hardware. I costed up the same equipment from City Plumbing and he had inflated the component parts to the tune of £4,935. @AdamRowlandson Your video was great and I think you observations are spot on but for me as a prospective customer for a heat pump, the greatest thing holding back 600,000 installs a year is FISCAL. Expecting customers to spend 3x the price of a Gas / Oil boiler (even after BUS grant) is taking the p**s.
excellent commentary with a lot of spot-on observations - really glad i listened through - thank you for posting and best wishes for the business. Appreciate if this seems a bit cheeky (have i just caught this vlog but missed a whole string of them?) but you could do the industry a big service here - and perhaps achieve more than our governments have over the last 15 years - by, maybe, making some follow-ups on such things as, e.g. the difficulties presented with most uk (especially post-80's) housing stock where space and/or structural capacity for a water-tank/thermal store has not been allowed. Also, maybe how 'smart' (electrical) power supplies an/or solar pv and/or domestic batteries and/or v2g/h/l ca all influence running costs and will do so increasingly in the next few years. Maybe also a 'this is our experience...' of measured noise levels at actual installs, where surrounding materials (and obvs the heat pump itself) give a real-world measurement (If smart electricity is the way we are going, then having neighbours griping about 'some whirring noise at 3 a.m. from your bl***y heat pump...' is something the installation industry doesn't need - but the energy supply industry does (!)) [Yeah, i'm a retired mech eng and would love to work with such admirably sensible people like you, but my wife would probably do bad things to me if i even mentioned it...] best of luck
Really appreciate your positivity, in answer to your question I have been talking about heat pumps face to face or as a public speaker for years now. I decided to post a few videos starting a couple of weeks back and 9000+views later here we are 🤣 the online space can be toxic so not sure how much I could take but comments like yours make it feel worthwhile.
@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow try to ignore the toxic a-holes - these are people whose contribution to the universe is entirely negative, whereas yours is entirely positive. Goforit. (p.s. was also a brat (apprentice) for a few years in the early 70's courtesy hm services - apprenticeships are so, so underrated. Have faith!(!)
I think the real issue facing most people is the cost, even with the £7.5K government subsidy. I've paid for a full MCS survey, heat loss equating to need a small 5KW unit, no radiator upgrades required and yet still £4,200 to pay. I want to switch to a heat pump but the installation costs need to come down.
@chester6343 cheaper finance and cashback should open improvements up to more people. I saw how much I would save with PV, batteries and heat pump and considered taking out a loan based on the £1000 per year savings (I didn't need to in the end). Even further into it I realised that changing gas and electricity tariffs also save me large amounts (so I save perhaps £500 with the tariffs but then only save a further £600 with the PV, batteries and heat pump).
@@Biggest-dh1vr I wouldn't advocate going into any kind of debt for a heat pump period, especially if you're banking on the energy savings paying for itself. It's a gamble. If you have the money then do it, if not then wait for costs to come down.
Compared to air-to-air heat pump systems, air-to-water heat pump installations appear to be so much more complicated, bulky and possibly more expensive to fit. Most owners of smaller houses, after 20+ years of using combination boilers, will really not want to see the return of a hot water tank. "Needs must" and all that, but really not wanted.
It’s a fair comment. Filming and driving is currently legal in the U.K. car reviewers do it. Police do it during documentary’s but I do take on your comment.
Why aren’t ATA systems available from the government grant scheme? I would like to get rid of my gas boiler but looking of what’s available the ATA heat pump would suit my needs better.
@@KavanOBrien a2a are a great option and work well. The reason why the government don’t support them is a2a can cool, bringing a cooling option into a British home is a luxury and in most cases increase a house electrical consumption and therefore c02 emissions.
@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow Really wow that seems bizarre , why can’t the ATA system have the cooling option disconnected as an example or have ones that can only heat and not cool , if the main concept is to have the gas boiler replaced then I think the government are limiting themselves, many people I talk with would get rid of the gas boiler if ATA was an option not ATW , ok then unfortunately looks like I have to get a new gas boiler then , didn’t want to do that but ATW is far too expensive to run , lots of people who got ATW wished they hadn’t after finding out when they got the bills from the electricity companies.
@@KavanOBrien that’s a question for government I guess, potentially you could disable the cooling function. As far as run costs and a2w are concerned a well designed system will be cheaper to run than gas. And yes for some and it sounds like you a new gas boiler makes fiscal sense as it stands, however be sure your gas fitter designs any replacement rads to low temp as that is how you get maximum efficiency from any heating system including a gas boiler, then down the line a heat pump could easily be retrofitted on your system.
@@KavanOBrien For A2A, removing cooling means you're removing over half of the functionality (cooling and dehumidifying), and likely if something was done it would be something that could be "modded" back in, as A2A units need to be able to operate in "cool" mode for defrosting, so there's no hardware limitation. A2W on the other hand, cooling whilst possible, is far more complex - needing fan coils/ufh or an air handler instead of radiators. A2A you're provided with everything you need for cooling. IMO I would definitely forego the grant over having cooling disabled. I don't see it happening, but if consumption and CO2 emissions are the primary factors, then having solar (and enough capacity) should negate those for any sort of grant, as the net effect essentially becomes zero (i.e. the heat the solar panels have absorbed counters the additional heat output from the external unit). It being a luxury I can sort of get behind, but how many people have been hospitalised/died in the UK when there's been heatwaves?
@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow I am just relaying what I have seen and heard , having watched many RUclips videos especially with heat geek and the urban plumber even they are shocked by the amount of badly installed ATW systems, due to having extra stuff with in the systems that make it less efficient, one tend to hear oh that’s lack of training = great that’s ok then , the people who have had the systems installed now can’t afford to have the heating on , people who had gas or oil and thought ATW systems that would cost less to run turns out they can’t even switch it on because it’s just too expensive, many have said worst decision they have made , you hear things like oh it’s a new industry and going forward the installation will become more efficient in time , what I find annoying the people who had ATA have the opposite opinions and say this is brilliant and cost less to run because you can heat an area in the home when you want rather than heating the whole household with ATW when you don’t need too , I have even seen and spoken with people who had ATW that they changed to ATA and wished they had chosen ATA in the first place , it’s somewhat foolish of not only the industry but also the government who want to get rid of gas boilers but are limiting the solution, you can own a car but no driving on motorways = even Baldrick would say that’s not a cunning plan.
you only need to see how many student loans that are never paid off due to them not earning enough to tell you that degrees aren’t suitable for everyone
It was built in 1912, three bed semi with loft extension. I filled in a rudimentary questionnaire, received a phone call with that £15500 price. I'm one of those old guys you refer to in your vidio, retired after an engineering background and thirty year as refrigeration service engineer, I was building , commissioning and servicing industrial heat pumps on and off throughout the thirty years. You can see where my interest comes from.
I'll be keeping the versatility and reliability of my boiler. The more this net zero stuff gets forced on the public, the more they will resist. It's like a religion now. Nothing against so called 'low carbon' alternatives.
![ROSÉ(로제) - APT. (Band VER.) (With. 이영지) [더 시즌즈-이영지의 레인보우] | KBS 241129 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IW8qaemx74g/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi, I've just watched your video and related to your experiences. I'm a 56 year old mechanic (fed up with cars) and can't believe the farcical education system especially with "qualified apprentices" in my trade.
I'm currently installing 2 Ecodan heatpumps and seriously considering a career change. I would appreciate a conversation with you how to go about a transaction.
Thanks, great video, it fills me with confidence knowing that there are people like you trying to build things up when the mainstream media are trying hard to tear things down, keep it up.
Very much enjoyed that and a good summary of the journey so far and both the struggles and opportunities of the industry going forward
Great video, and some interesting insights, especially the things about MCS, and how to handle things in future. My only (minor) gripe is the comparison at around 21:20. Where because leccy is 3.5x gas, a heat pump needs to achieve a SCOP of 3.5. It works in simple terms, but for most in the UK, gas boilers are likely (according to OVO) running at about 84% efficiency. So to break even with gas, a heat pump would only need a SCOP of 3.
Obviously, every system is different, and I haven't seen anyone doing a proper test in actual gas efficiency in the same way openenergymonitor has been used for heat pumps.
@@BenIsInSweden absolutely and if I did a deep dive into that subject at 21.20 I could probably bore everyone for another hour 🤣 but yes I agree gas boilers are iro 85% efficient at best so yes your comparison is probably more accurate.
Thanks for the positivity 🙂👍
@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow I'm one of those people who would definitely watch an hour deep dive into it and not get bored😂
Just watched your video with interest, had a verbal estimate for heat pump to replace a ageing combi. £15500 for a heat pump £2000 for a replacement combi, is someone having a laugh😂
One verbal estimate...? I had 2 estimates... 1 at 18000 and one at 11000, both with heat pump grant off and both for an entire wet system as no rads installed. Get another quote.
Same problem, installation costs are a joke. I had a quote last week £16,372 and that didn't include any emitter (radiatior) work. Absolute joke! The worst part is the installer was making huge profits on the hardware. I costed up the same equipment from City Plumbing and he had inflated the component parts to the tune of £4,935. @AdamRowlandson Your video was great and I think you observations are spot on but for me as a prospective customer for a heat pump, the greatest thing holding back 600,000 installs a year is FISCAL. Expecting customers to spend 3x the price of a Gas / Oil boiler (even after BUS grant) is taking the p**s.
excellent commentary with a lot of spot-on observations - really glad i listened through - thank you for posting and best wishes for the business.
Appreciate if this seems a bit cheeky (have i just caught this vlog but missed a whole string of them?) but you could do the industry a big service here - and perhaps achieve more than our governments have over the last 15 years - by, maybe, making some follow-ups on such things as, e.g. the difficulties presented with most uk (especially post-80's) housing stock where space and/or structural capacity for a water-tank/thermal store has not been allowed. Also, maybe how 'smart' (electrical) power supplies an/or solar pv and/or domestic batteries and/or v2g/h/l ca all influence running costs and will do so increasingly in the next few years. Maybe also a 'this is our experience...' of measured noise levels at actual installs, where surrounding materials (and obvs the heat pump itself) give a real-world measurement (If smart electricity is the way we are going, then having neighbours griping about 'some whirring noise at 3 a.m. from your bl***y heat pump...' is something the installation industry doesn't need - but the energy supply industry does (!))
[Yeah, i'm a retired mech eng and would love to work with such admirably sensible people like you, but my wife would probably do bad things to me if i even mentioned it...]
best of luck
Really appreciate your positivity, in answer to your question I have been talking about heat pumps face to face or as a public speaker for years now. I decided to post a few videos starting a couple of weeks back and 9000+views later here we are 🤣 the online space can be toxic so not sure how much I could take but comments like yours make it feel worthwhile.
@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow try to ignore the toxic a-holes - these are people whose contribution to the universe is entirely negative, whereas yours is entirely positive. Goforit.
(p.s. was also a brat (apprentice) for a few years in the early 70's courtesy hm services - apprenticeships are so, so underrated. Have faith!(!)
I think the real issue facing most people is the cost, even with the £7.5K government subsidy. I've paid for a full MCS survey, heat loss equating to need a small 5KW unit, no radiator upgrades required and yet still £4,200 to pay. I want to switch to a heat pump but the installation costs need to come down.
@UpsideDownFork's latest video covers some mortgage companies who are subsidising installation
@@Biggest-dh1vr which is just debt dressed in drag, there is literally no way that's better financially than just forking out to begin with.
@chester6343 cheaper finance and cashback should open improvements up to more people. I saw how much I would save with PV, batteries and heat pump and considered taking out a loan based on the £1000 per year savings (I didn't need to in the end).
Even further into it I realised that changing gas and electricity tariffs also save me large amounts (so I save perhaps £500 with the tariffs but then only save a further £600 with the PV, batteries and heat pump).
@@Biggest-dh1vr I wouldn't advocate going into any kind of debt for a heat pump period, especially if you're banking on the energy savings paying for itself. It's a gamble. If you have the money then do it, if not then wait for costs to come down.
@@chester6343 PV and batteries seem pretty sure-fire, heat pumps less so.
Great videos mate. Could you possibly do something on open loop and also solar gain and how to work around this?
There’s going to be even more of a skill shortage in a decade now the minimum wage is pushing on £400+ a week for sprog on a 4 day week 😬.
Compared to air-to-air heat pump systems, air-to-water heat pump installations appear to be so much more complicated, bulky and possibly more expensive to fit. Most owners of smaller houses, after 20+ years of using combination boilers, will really not want to see the return of a hot water tank. "Needs must" and all that, but really not wanted.
Good stuff, but should u really be driving and presenting at the same time. Setting yourself up for a prosecution if u have accident
It’s a fair comment.
Filming and driving is currently legal in the U.K. car reviewers do it. Police do it during documentary’s but I do take on your comment.
Why aren’t ATA systems available from the government grant scheme? I would like to get rid of my gas boiler but looking of what’s available the ATA heat pump would suit my needs better.
@@KavanOBrien a2a are a great option and work well. The reason why the government don’t support them is a2a can cool, bringing a cooling option into a British home is a luxury and in most cases increase a house electrical consumption and therefore c02 emissions.
@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow Really wow that seems bizarre , why can’t the ATA system have the cooling option disconnected as an example or have ones that can only heat and not cool , if the main concept is to have the gas boiler replaced then I think the government are limiting themselves, many people I talk with would get rid of the gas boiler if ATA was an option not ATW , ok then unfortunately looks like I have to get a new gas boiler then , didn’t want to do that but ATW is far too expensive to run , lots of people who got ATW wished they hadn’t after finding out when they got the bills from the electricity companies.
@@KavanOBrien that’s a question for government I guess, potentially you could disable the cooling function.
As far as run costs and a2w are concerned a well designed system will be cheaper to run than gas.
And yes for some and it sounds like you a new gas boiler makes fiscal sense as it stands, however be sure your gas fitter designs any replacement rads to low temp as that is how you get maximum efficiency from any heating system including a gas boiler, then down the line a heat pump could easily be retrofitted on your system.
@@KavanOBrien For A2A, removing cooling means you're removing over half of the functionality (cooling and dehumidifying), and likely if something was done it would be something that could be "modded" back in, as A2A units need to be able to operate in "cool" mode for defrosting, so there's no hardware limitation.
A2W on the other hand, cooling whilst possible, is far more complex - needing fan coils/ufh or an air handler instead of radiators.
A2A you're provided with everything you need for cooling.
IMO I would definitely forego the grant over having cooling disabled.
I don't see it happening, but if consumption and CO2 emissions are the primary factors, then having solar (and enough capacity) should negate those for any sort of grant, as the net effect essentially becomes zero (i.e. the heat the solar panels have absorbed counters the additional heat output from the external unit). It being a luxury I can sort of get behind, but how many people have been hospitalised/died in the UK when there's been heatwaves?
@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow I am just relaying what I have seen and heard , having watched many RUclips videos especially with heat geek and the urban plumber even they are shocked by the amount of badly installed ATW systems, due to having extra stuff with in the systems that make it less efficient, one tend to hear oh that’s lack of training = great that’s ok then , the people who have had the systems installed now can’t afford to have the heating on , people who had gas or oil and thought ATW systems that would cost less to run turns out they can’t even switch it on because it’s just too expensive, many have said worst decision they have made , you hear things like oh it’s a new industry and going forward the installation will become more efficient in time , what I find annoying the people who had ATA have the opposite opinions and say this is brilliant and cost less to run because you can heat an area in the home when you want rather than heating the whole household with ATW when you don’t need too , I have even seen and spoken with people who had ATW that they changed to ATA and wished they had chosen ATA in the first place , it’s somewhat foolish of not only the industry but also the government who want to get rid of gas boilers but are limiting the solution, you can own a car but no driving on motorways = even Baldrick would say that’s not a cunning plan.
you only need to see how many student loans that are never paid off due to them not earning enough to tell you that degrees aren’t suitable for everyone
That's £15500 less the grant
@@DavidHeath-xg9os wow that’s a chunk of money, how big is your house? 🤣
It was built in 1912, three bed semi with loft extension. I filled in a rudimentary questionnaire, received a phone call with that £15500 price. I'm one of those old guys you refer to in your vidio, retired after an engineering background and thirty year as refrigeration service engineer, I was building , commissioning and servicing industrial heat pumps on and off throughout the thirty years. You can see where my interest comes from.
I'll be keeping the versatility and reliability of my boiler. The more this net zero stuff gets forced on the public, the more they will resist. It's like a religion now. Nothing against so called 'low carbon' alternatives.
Alot of waffling
@@paulkearsley9509 sorry paul.
Looking forward to the 20 second edit!😂