Видео

@@paulkearsley9509 sorry paul.

@@BenIsInSweden absolutely and if I did a deep dive into that subject at 21.20 I could probably bore everyone for another hour 🤣 but yes I agree gas boilers are iro 85% efficient at best so yes your comparison is probably more accurate. Thanks for the positivity 🙂👍

@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow I'm one of those people who would definitely watch an hour deep dive into it and not get bored😂

@@KavanOBrien a2a are a great option and work well. The reason why the government don’t support them is a2a can cool, bringing a cooling option into a British home is a luxury and in most cases increase a house electrical consumption and therefore c02 emissions.

@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow Really wow that seems bizarre , why can’t the ATA system have the cooling option disconnected as an example or have ones that can only heat and not cool , if the main concept is to have the gas boiler replaced then I think the government are limiting themselves, many people I talk with would get rid of the gas boiler if ATA was an option not ATW , ok then unfortunately looks like I have to get a new gas boiler then , didn’t want to do that but ATW is far too expensive to run , lots of people who got ATW wished they hadn’t after finding out when they got the bills from the electricity companies.

@@KavanOBrien that’s a question for government I guess, potentially you could disable the cooling function. As far as run costs and a2w are concerned a well designed system will be cheaper to run than gas. And yes for some and it sounds like you a new gas boiler makes fiscal sense as it stands, however be sure your gas fitter designs any replacement rads to low temp as that is how you get maximum efficiency from any heating system including a gas boiler, then down the line a heat pump could easily be retrofitted on your system.

@@KavanOBrien For A2A, removing cooling means you're removing over half of the functionality (cooling and dehumidifying), and likely if something was done it would be something that could be "modded" back in, as A2A units need to be able to operate in "cool" mode for defrosting, so there's no hardware limitation. A2W on the other hand, cooling whilst possible, is far more complex - needing fan coils/ufh or an air handler instead of radiators. A2A you're provided with everything you need for cooling. IMO I would definitely forego the grant over having cooling disabled. I don't see it happening, but if consumption and CO2 emissions are the primary factors, then having solar (and enough capacity) should negate those for any sort of grant, as the net effect essentially becomes zero (i.e. the heat the solar panels have absorbed counters the additional heat output from the external unit). It being a luxury I can sort of get behind, but how many people have been hospitalised/died in the UK when there's been heatwaves?

@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow I am just relaying what I have seen and heard , having watched many RUclips videos especially with heat geek and the urban plumber even they are shocked by the amount of badly installed ATW systems, due to having extra stuff with in the systems that make it less efficient, one tend to hear oh that’s lack of training = great that’s ok then , the people who have had the systems installed now can’t afford to have the heating on , people who had gas or oil and thought ATW systems that would cost less to run turns out they can’t even switch it on because it’s just too expensive, many have said worst decision they have made , you hear things like oh it’s a new industry and going forward the installation will become more efficient in time , what I find annoying the people who had ATA have the opposite opinions and say this is brilliant and cost less to run because you can heat an area in the home when you want rather than heating the whole household with ATW when you don’t need too , I have even seen and spoken with people who had ATW that they changed to ATA and wished they had chosen ATA in the first place , it’s somewhat foolish of not only the industry but also the government who want to get rid of gas boilers but are limiting the solution, you can own a car but no driving on motorways = even Baldrick would say that’s not a cunning plan.

Really appreciate your positivity, in answer to your question I have been talking about heat pumps face to face or as a public speaker for years now. I decided to post a few videos starting a couple of weeks back and 9000+views later here we are 🤣 the online space can be toxic so not sure how much I could take but comments like yours make it feel worthwhile.

@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow try to ignore the toxic a-holes - these are people whose contribution to the universe is entirely negative, whereas yours is entirely positive. Goforit. (p.s. was also a brat (apprentice) for a few years in the early 70's courtesy hm services - apprenticeships are so, so underrated. Have faith!(!)

Great comment and in fact you’re correct, when the volumiser does reach temperature and the heat pump can’t reduce its output anymore cycling would start. However what the volumiser does on the journey to that point is increase the time it takes, and that is the key. What we’re trying to do is reduce cycle times not stop them altogether as in mild weather inevitably heat pumps will cycle. So in short the volumiser extends the on off time to reduce cycling to within acceptable parameters.

@ thank you that makes sense.

@@DavidHeath-xg9os wow that’s a chunk of money, how big is your house? 🤣

It was built in 1912, three bed semi with loft extension. I filled in a rudimentary questionnaire, received a phone call with that £15500 price. I'm one of those old guys you refer to in your vidio, retired after an engineering background and thirty year as refrigeration service engineer, I was building , commissioning and servicing industrial heat pumps on and off throughout the thirty years. You can see where my interest comes from.

One verbal estimate...? I had 2 estimates... 1 at 18000 and one at 11000, both with heat pump grant off and both for an entire wet system as no rads installed. Get another quote.

Hi thanks for the comment, I write the installation manual with a colleague of mine and it meets the minimum requirements. 🙂

@@speedmytube only in heating mode DHW return is direct as the last tee in.

Thanks for the comment Peter. Water softener? Where we life the water is as soft and fresh as mountain water. 🙂

@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow I live closer to London, the water is horrible. The water in Lancashire is soft and tastes much better, better than most bottled water too.

Hi, yea will post a link shortly 👍

Great comment 🙂 if you look down my videos there is one titled, Air Source Heat Pump Design……holistic approach. In this video I describe this exact scenario where our customer needs different temperatures on different days depending how they feel due to specific health needs. Now the on off approach you describe can be achieved with a heat pump and zone controls, however this approach is considered less efficient because it is………however depending on your usage patterns it may be cheaper to run as efficiency and run costs are not necessarily directly linked. Storing heat in water is not really that practical as the specific heat capacity of water is not that great, so the buffer you describe would need to be very large to hold any usable heat, not impossible but not always practical. 🙂

@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow thanks. I’ll take a look. I don’t see how it can be less efficient really, because it would accommodate a smaller heat pump running 24h but still give that nice boost to the radiators in the morning to get them back up to temp. In electronics terms it’s like just having a big capacitor in the system. Yes the specific heat capacity of water is low, but water is very cheap, including dumb storage tanks. The problem with lots of modern tanks is that they are over engineered with lots of heating coils and stuff in them which pushes up the cost per litre. I have to confess that on my heat pump I have not yet added a buffer tank. We tried just sleeping with the radiator on day and night but just couldn’t sleep, so now we turn off our bedroom rad and let the rest of the house stay warm. I would never want to go back to our oil boiler now.

The argument against on off controls and loss of efficiency stems from proper weather compensation, ie you lower your emitter temps according to the outside temperature, if you completely shut off zones and you’re running on weather comp you won’t have the correct heat up factor ie the room will take a long time to reach design temp. If you’re using on off controls literally and wanting a quick heat up time from a buffer store that buffer store will have to be high temperature and in doing that the cop of the heat pump will be lower while charging said store. Anyway all the above is hypothetical and you could move the numbers about to suit your situation and it may be the better fit for you, as you say what about the customers wants and needs. The reality is we struggle to convince most customers to have a 200l hot water cylinder and 50 litre volumiser let alone a 1000 litre buffer. Regardless these conversations are all positive and as far as I’m concerned nothing is off the table. 🙂

@@rolandrohde yea sure we do a 3 pipe configuration as you describe if the direct approach isn’t possible. I will do a video on it soon. I also still use 4 pipe if the customer can’t upgrade the pipework and or they are having a hybrid system. 4 pipe does reduce efficiency but if it saves the plant from premature failure and the customer gets the quoted run costs IMO that’s ok. Manufacturers have to start somewhere I guess and for them 4 pipe protects their equipment.

@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow Thanks for your reply. I am in Germany, and was lucky that my Installer at least gave me a small buffer (45l). Others are often saddled with huge 200+l Buffers with 4 Pipes. Installers here seem very much adverse to putting the Buffer on the return side or even doing the 3 Pipe install, mine wasn't even aware that it is an option...🤷‍♂️ So yes, a Video on the Topic would be fantastic so we can show our Installers that it is possible...😉

@@rolandrohde We would assume the Germans know best 🤣 like I say in the video reliability is almost as important as overall efficiency and I guess that is the driver towards 4 pipe buffers from manufacturers and long term installers. There is no single solution other than a well considered one. 🙂

​@@rolandrohdeInstallers are just as ignorant here in the Netherlands. Little knowledge, no mastery, just quick money with standard components and systems.

I installed a 40 kW wood gasification heating system about 12 years ago , 2000 litres buffer tank and a 48' X 12' slab-on-grade radiant floor system to improve heating efficiency. Being in Canada we have wide temperature ranges and need a robust system.

Appreciate the comment and agree with much of what you say. Yes air change factors can swing heat loss calculations massively and getting it wrong can cause over or under size of a heat pump. MCS do give guidance but they will have pulled it from either building regs or CIBSE (they don’t have the knowledge to create anything) however how an engineer interprets or apply’s it is another story. Global Energy has a parent company Helical Technology Ltd. Helical are a family owned firm that have been running for over 60 years in Lancashire across two sites. Although they’re small compared to other heat pump manufacturers rest assured their guarantee is comprehensive.

@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow Thanks mate I’ll look at their products closer, I like the idea of them manufacturing in the UK. Here a wee tip for the Hard of Thinking. With big K3s & large emitters, buy a Scooter Jack👍👍

@@JohnBrophy-z1c correct those settings either extend the off time and overshoot the flow set-point. Most units will have both these settings and as you say they’re there to help reduce cycling. If you have correct system volume alongside correct parameters cycling will be limited. 🙂

It means a lot to get a positive comment from an industry expert such as yourself John. Really appreciate the positivity 🙂

What's the biggest risk of designing out a buffer tank John? I think volumisers serve a purpose, but see very little need for a 4-port buffer in a heat pump design.

@@MyHomeFarm if its a big-ish place, and not fully occupied, then the owner might turn quite a lot of radiarors off/down. The system could then spend too much of its time cycling. A buffer tank should at least increase the time spent at efficient steady-state running. Whilst I would always recommend calculating the emitter circut properly so that the heat pump gets a steady load (flow-rate enough, and/or water temperaures dont rise too quickly). However, A buffer can mean the emitter design does not have to be quite so exacting. All that said, we have seen on HPM where the buffer tank is introducing inefficiecy. e.g. radiators getting say 35c, but HP flow has to be 38c to achieve this. Remove the buffer, and the heat pump should now have the same flow temperature. (35c at HP, 35c at radiators). I prefer 3-port buffers (or very well-optimised 4-port) since this issue can be minimised. Finally, If radiators are automatically opening and closing, then the return temperature to the heat pump will be varying up/down. This can 'irritate' the heat pump.... it can rev-up/slow-down, stop and start. if the heat pump return is drawing from a volumiser or buffer tank, it can make for more stable opetration. That said, manufacturers build in time delays with sensors to smooth all this out. There are a lot of variables, so no easy answers.

​@@johncantor4056 Thanks, that's a pretty clear explanation on the use of buffers. It make me think that if a buffer or LLH is not fitted then it should be made clear to each customer how many rads can be allowed to shutdown and the consequences or allowing more.

I’m so busy I don’t have time to do slick videos with full on descriptions 😂. However I am planning on doing separate videos in the class room with a whiteboard and marker so watch this space. Appreciate your support and I too love watching your videos…🙂

@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow Thank you! I'm trying to help spread reassurance through my experience of living with a heat pump. I'll keep watching your stuff. I'm always eager to learn more from people like you who know a lot more than I ever will!

Key Factors Heat pump capacity Minimum output of the heat pump Desired start/stop frequency Flow rate requirements Calculation Method 1, Determine the heat pump's nominal capacity and minimum output. 2. Calculate the minimum flow rate: Typically, heat pumps require a flow rate of about 3 liters per minute per kilowatt of capacity 3. Calculate the hourly flow rate: Hourly flow rate = Minimum flow rate (L/min) × 60 minutes 4. Determine the desired start/stop frequency per hour: Lower frequencies (e.g., 2-3 times per hour) are preferable for system longevity and efficiency 5. Calculate the required system volume: System volume = Hourly flow rate ÷ Desired start/stop frequency Example Calculation Let's use a 7 kW heat pump as an example: 1. Nominal capacity: 7 kW Minimum output: 3.14 kW (assuming 45% of nominal) 2. Minimum flow rate: 7 kW × 3 L/min/kW = 21 L/min 3. Hourly flow rate: 21 L/min × 60 min = 1,260 L/hour 4. Desired start/stop frequency: 2 times per hour 5. Required system volume: 1,260 L/hour ÷ 2 = 630 L In this case, the correct system volume would be 630 liters Scraped from the web using Perplexity

@@James-zu1ijisn’t this assuming the heatpump will not lower its output to match demand? 600 L seems a lot for such a small heat pump

@@bishbashash5319that’s the point! This calculation is at the minimum output- the heat pump cannot modulate below its minimum - its only option is to cycle off - hence the volume calculation.

I have an petrol A3 ä, it does around 1100km on a tank of fuel. Drove from Stockholm to Hamburg without visiting a single fuelstation. Meanwhile my Mini Cooper Ev hardly took me to work and back.

Sincerest apologies you’re correct. kWh it is. The videos are raw un edited quick uploads. 🙂

@@Rowlysrenewableroadshow No problem , it's just that, for me, it throws everything else into doubt, despite the fact that you are obviously aiming to do a good job, Thanks for responding!

@@stevefairbanks835 Hi, I don’t have a problem with these electric boilers or any electric boiler. It’s just the fact they’re very expensive to run, and some consumers buy them due to confusing efficiency and run costs. They’re often marketed on the fact they’re 100% efficient (because they are) but that doesn’t make them reasonable to run. If a job lended itself to electric heating only I would go for high retention storage heaters over an electric boiler. However if a customer has a wet system already (radiators/ufh) I would always advise a heat pump. 🙂

@@petercooper7711 Great comment, and of course all you have mentioned should be considered. Now this particular Job the customer isn’t paying a penny as it’s funded by the HUG grant. 😂 Of course that’s not always the case. If this was to be privately funded it would be IRO £12500 all in less the BUS grant of £7500 so £6500 cost to customer. This particular customer will be saving at least £1800 per year and that’s a conservative estimate. Those amptec boilers are £900 each fyi. The way I see it is if you’re in the market for a new heating system anyway then a heat pump is well worth considering, however if you have a perfect functioning system that is reasonable to run and offers comfort why would you change it? 🙂 People sometimes try and portray a heating system as an asset and that it should pay for itself…….this simply isn’t the case, it is a necessary part of a modern home that provides a function. We don’t ask car salesmen what the payback period is. 😀

Correct, hence why it’s costing £20 per day not £99 a day. 🙂

Even 4 hours running, that's 18kWh x 0.25p = 18 pounds. What an aberration hahaha

@@nomad9296 Hi, we/you can get a pretty accurate prediction on how well a heat pump would perform using the 8mm micro bore if a full heat loss calculation was carried out along with pipe sizing calculations. Generally it is difficult to deliver the required heat at a low design flow temp through 8mm pipe. It isn’t impossible but it is difficult and will depend entirely on how much heat your house needs. In short, I wouldn’t just try it. Do the maths and let that guide your decision. 🙂

Thanks, the house does need quite a bit of heat, I've increased the rad size and that made a big difference. I was thinking of getting a solar and battery set up plus a heat pump for central heating, keeping my gas combi for hot water for now as it seems very reasonable and recently installed an expensive power shower which works off the combi. How would I go about working the heat and heat loss calculations - thanks