After getting through a decent chunk of this video, you’ve convinced me that this is a game worth experiencing properly! I will take your warning and absolutely be back to finish this when I’ve played the game:)
Dang, Wiz. You truly made some quality, personal essays that really hit on the bullseye. Seeing this makes me wanna play The Messenger for a 3rd time. Here's a great year for all of us (and the game's industry and everyone else since the layoffs just keep coming and coming)
Great video! I’m a big fan of The Messenger myself, and I can’t wait to see what else this studio has in store. Also, thanks for speaking on the layoffs that have already had a huge impact on the industry this year. I’m very excited to see the new direction you take your channel in!
loved this video man! thanks for showing a ton of LOVE to this studio and these games, as often enough, we see people talking (and talking and talking) about games but somehow without showing a real appreciation for the full work itself. really resonated, man. thank you!!
I feel so conflicted about Sea of Stars. (Warning: loooooong comment.) I started gaming in the 16-bit era, so Ninja Gaiden and the whole 8-bit aesthetics don't do anything for me. Yet, I gave The Messenger a try after seeing the positive buzz it was generating. It blew my mind to an astounding degree. It was GENIUS, from all perspectives. I loved how smooth and fluid the gameplay was, I loved the story, I loved the subversion of genres and the cross-generational graphical style. Above all, I loved the writing. And above all the writing, I loved the writing for the Shopkeeper. In reading the Shopkeeper's stories, I got the feeling that Sabotage studios had a stellar writer who was perhaps even a little bit frustrated with having to work on a game that wasn't dialogue-based. I have heard critics say The Messenger is "overwritten", and I agree! I just don't think it's a negative. The Messenger is just not the sort of game that needs to be so well written as it is. So when I heard the next game by the same studio was going to be an RPG, I was like "of course!" It felt natural to me that they'd be working on a genre with more space for the writing to shine. Sea of Stars immediately became my most anticipated game. And for the entire time, from announcement to release, it maintained that status. Not even Zelda Tears of the Kingdom managed to quite capture my hype as much as Sea of Stars. I am not used to feeling hyped for games like this, so I literally didn't know what to do with myself in the last 2 or 3 months leading up to Sea of Stars' release date. Even though I am not a fan of RPGs, the only way I found to tide myself over was to play other indie RPGs, so I started CrossCode. When Sea of Stars finally released, I was around 40% through with CrossCode and I was enjoying it a lot, but I immediately dropped it, of course. I started playing Sea of Stars and… I felt weird. I didn't recognize the writing. More than not recognizing it, after the second or third major area of the game, I had to admit to myself I wasn't really enjoying it. It didn't feel as sharp and creative and bursting at the seams with style. It didn't feel like it had been written by the same team or person that wrote The Messenger. And although the graphics were certainly very pleasing to look at, I was also not enjoying the game itself. I could recognize the battle system was well designed and creative, but it just wasn't captivating to me. Progression wasn't feeling super good. The music was surprisingly not great as well (although certainly far from being bad). I was disappointed. I decided to give it a few days and go back to CrossCode in the meantime. Then, I was surprised by how much more I was enjoying it than Sea of Stars. The game I merely used as a distraction to tide me over to Sea of Stars ended up becoming my favorite RPG of all time, surpassing even Chrono Trigger. As for Sea of Stars, I never got too far past the part when we first encounter The Sleeper. I just watched another video on Sea of Stars, a scathing critique by someone who wanted to like it as much as I did, and it didn't for many of the same reasons I didn't. After watching it and feeling validated, I remembered I had this video in my Watch Later for weeks now, so I decided to watch it as well, for a counterpoint. After watching these two long videos, one full of criticism and another full of praise, I think I'm decided for now: I'll wait for Sabotage's next game. I'll see if it hits me closer to how The Messenger hit me, or closer to how Sea of Stars hit me. If it pulls me into this world, I'll gladly give Sea of Stars another chance, and I'll play it even if for the worldbuilding alone. If not, then… well, at least it indirectly caused me to find and play the best JRPG I've ever known.
Haven't watched this yet but I know it's gonna be a banger, beat sea of stars last week and it was a joy seeing all the ways it subtly connected to the messenger which was already a game I loved, can't wait to see where things go from here
Hey, Wiz. While I had some glimpses of Sabotage studio through the stories of The Messenger and on Sea of Stars, your video gave a better context to them. Great video!
This was great! I've had this video on my list for a while but wanted to wait until I finished the game (and life definitely got in the way of that). Really great to learn more about the team that created the game and how it all came to be. It was a very special game for me. I haven't played The Messenger and kinda figured it might not be my kinda game, but I'm definitely feeling more convinced that I should give it a go sometime.
God dude, you've come such a long way even between now and the last video. I think even by comparing the length of this to your past few videos one might think you paired things down a bit for tighter pacing, but honestly I feel like you still went full bore on both Sea of Stars, The Messenger and the devs Sabotage Studio. The production is really clean and nice. I think I could spend hours just soaking in your videos and find new edits/transitions/little things to be like YO HOLD UP WHAT WAS THAT? THAT WAS SLICK AS HELL. Ah man, I really loved this even as someone who bounced REALLY hard off The Messenger. Really, great stuff! Who knows maybe you got me considering firing up The Messenger again!
I'm glad you loved this game, but man, the combat definitely had not enough friction for me, as you put it. The lock system made it so that about halfway through the game I never saw boss special attacks anymore, because it was so easy to just break every single boss lock. The lock system is neat at first, but by the end it feels like it is just telling you exactly what the optimal move to do is every turn.
Yeah I think that's totally fair imo. I loved Sea of Stars but I thought of it less as a companion piece/soul sequel to Chrono Trigger but rather Super Mario RPG in terms of it's JRPG-ness and gameplay. Very easy going game; borderline comfy. But the story and the characters (and the graphics and music let's be real) were the real main feast of the game.
Totally fair criticism. That was actually a part of the game that I really enjoyed and I can further explain why it hit harder for me. It reminded me of Paper Mario - The Origami King. That system actually infuriated me because it felt as if there was always a correct solution that I was really struggling to find, and I ended shelving the game because of it. I recognize that Sea of Stars is perhaps a much easier game than maybe others felt it should be, but it hit a sweet spot for me unlike Origami King. I felt as though there were enough locks that encouraged players to think about several turns in advance to fully negate, and that gelled well with my playstyle while feeling really rewarding to pull off.
@@wizawhat Yeah, it just didn't gel for me the same way it obviously does for you and lots of other players. There's still a lot to like about Sea of Stars, but for me, it's what holds me back from loving it instead of just really liking it.
I'm absolutely with you about the concerns of a developer being TOO ambitious with their narrative when a future isn't secured. It's a problem with most television and of course it's gonna be a problem with games. Heck I think Shenmue is never getting finished because it's creator didn't take advantage of his crowdfunded goal to potentially increase the pace of the storyline and try to head it towards more of a conclusion (Because honestly Shenmue IIIs story has NOTHING going on imo and isn't even halfway done). Having just become a Trails series fan (Which seems to be the most ambitious idea of something like this, just with the same genre) if any day they decided they lacked the funding to continue making more of those that'd suck too cuz that's way deeper into what they're trying to do. In this case of Sea of Stars, I see signs of overambition but not so much in the world building but just making sure storylines are given the proper attention and reach natural conclusions. I think the messenger had a similar problem ending after a dlc chapter that felt like there was going to be more. Some of the larger characters at work in this story definitely need more but I did still receive a fair amount of closure from the experience. In addition I only recently learned they're working on DLC content for this game so hopefully that will help set up where Sabotages priorities lie in what they have vs where they want to go. Great video man, long spiel aside, just glad to look at this beautiful game for 50 mins honestly.
I appreciate your insight! I also felt the same way after completing The Messenger's DLC. I'm 99% sure I heard in one interview with Thierry that there was an initial plan for not just one, but several DLC additions to The Messenger, which could explain why Picnic Panic ended in that fashion. I'm unsure if that particular storyline will conclude in The Messenger as planned though - anything can happen at this point. I'm also really looking forward to Throes of the Watchmaker!
Yeah It seemed to be implied they were gonna keep going. Maybe budget restrictions? Or maybe as you say they'll find some way to carry it on in this universe they created. Throes of the Watchmaker should be dope@@wizawhat
I didn't end the video to avoid spoilers, but with your first statement about rpgs and jrpg... Have you tried the Octopath Traveler's? Specifically the 2?
I have not played either of the Octopath games. If you think based on that statement that I would enjoy Octopath 2, then I'll definitely keep it in consideration.
Never played the Messenger and did Sea of Stars, the game is great but its link with The Messenger is mishandled and the ending of SoS is downplayed because of it.
I really love your writing, and your style of video editing, but the way you... pause. And EMphasize words... Makes me feel slightly insane. It's probably a me problem, but it makes me feel like you're talking down to me, almost? Like you're reframing your actual thoughts into a cadence for a young child. Like I said, it's probably a me problem, but I wanted to mention it as something that keeps me from recommending your channel to people, even though I think you have really cool things to say.
I'm going to be honest with you because it seems like you're trying to give honest feedback. I actually think that if you really like what I have to say but cannot get over the way I speak, maybe the content is actually just not for you. I'm not even going to try to justify the way I speak in videos because I'm confident in my approach. I do think it's kind of weird that you felt the need to say this after repeatedly stressing that it is likely a you thing. The feedback is noted but I'm not so desperate for a recommendation that I'm going to change my pattern of speaking. Thanks for the consideration though. 👍
@@wizawhat That's fair, I just wanted to put it out there as something that might be off putting, if it was an affectation you were trying out as a presentation voice. I didn't mean to offend! Best of luck with video creation going forward 👋
@@wizawhat I wouldn't have made a comment about this, but as someone who had never watched one of your videos before, I respectfully agree. At some point I noticed I was actually getting a bit stressed out, like I was yearning for you to get to your point already, so I set playback speed to 1.5x and had a better time. Maybe this feedback was weirdly communicated, but I think you should probably give it more than zero consideration.
i just saw sea of stars and wanted to drop by and say it's the worst jrpg i've ever played. I'm an elitist though so i only try to play good games, cya
Wow, thanks for taking the time to put this together. We loved it! ❤
It makes me really happy to know you guys enjoyed this!
After getting through a decent chunk of this video, you’ve convinced me that this is a game worth experiencing properly! I will take your warning and absolutely be back to finish this when I’ve played the game:)
I hope you enjoy it and come back to this video whenever you're ready :)
Dang, Wiz. You truly made some quality, personal essays that really hit on the bullseye. Seeing this makes me wanna play The Messenger for a 3rd time. Here's a great year for all of us (and the game's industry and everyone else since the layoffs just keep coming and coming)
Thanks for your support as always my dude!
Aight, you've convinced me. Ima play both and come back to this vid someday. Dunno when, but it's happening 👍👍
Great video! I’m a big fan of The Messenger myself, and I can’t wait to see what else this studio has in store. Also, thanks for speaking on the layoffs that have already had a huge impact on the industry this year. I’m very excited to see the new direction you take your channel in!
Thank you friend!
loved this video man! thanks for showing a ton of LOVE to this studio and these games, as often enough, we see people talking (and talking and talking) about games but somehow without showing a real appreciation for the full work itself. really resonated, man. thank you!!
Thank you so much. It really means a lot to me to have that aspect of this video recognized.
I feel so conflicted about Sea of Stars. (Warning: loooooong comment.)
I started gaming in the 16-bit era, so Ninja Gaiden and the whole 8-bit aesthetics don't do anything for me. Yet, I gave The Messenger a try after seeing the positive buzz it was generating. It blew my mind to an astounding degree. It was GENIUS, from all perspectives. I loved how smooth and fluid the gameplay was, I loved the story, I loved the subversion of genres and the cross-generational graphical style. Above all, I loved the writing.
And above all the writing, I loved the writing for the Shopkeeper. In reading the Shopkeeper's stories, I got the feeling that Sabotage studios had a stellar writer who was perhaps even a little bit frustrated with having to work on a game that wasn't dialogue-based. I have heard critics say The Messenger is "overwritten", and I agree! I just don't think it's a negative. The Messenger is just not the sort of game that needs to be so well written as it is.
So when I heard the next game by the same studio was going to be an RPG, I was like "of course!" It felt natural to me that they'd be working on a genre with more space for the writing to shine.
Sea of Stars immediately became my most anticipated game. And for the entire time, from announcement to release, it maintained that status. Not even Zelda Tears of the Kingdom managed to quite capture my hype as much as Sea of Stars.
I am not used to feeling hyped for games like this, so I literally didn't know what to do with myself in the last 2 or 3 months leading up to Sea of Stars' release date. Even though I am not a fan of RPGs, the only way I found to tide myself over was to play other indie RPGs, so I started CrossCode. When Sea of Stars finally released, I was around 40% through with CrossCode and I was enjoying it a lot, but I immediately dropped it, of course. I started playing Sea of Stars and… I felt weird.
I didn't recognize the writing. More than not recognizing it, after the second or third major area of the game, I had to admit to myself I wasn't really enjoying it. It didn't feel as sharp and creative and bursting at the seams with style. It didn't feel like it had been written by the same team or person that wrote The Messenger. And although the graphics were certainly very pleasing to look at, I was also not enjoying the game itself. I could recognize the battle system was well designed and creative, but it just wasn't captivating to me. Progression wasn't feeling super good. The music was surprisingly not great as well (although certainly far from being bad). I was disappointed.
I decided to give it a few days and go back to CrossCode in the meantime. Then, I was surprised by how much more I was enjoying it than Sea of Stars. The game I merely used as a distraction to tide me over to Sea of Stars ended up becoming my favorite RPG of all time, surpassing even Chrono Trigger.
As for Sea of Stars, I never got too far past the part when we first encounter The Sleeper.
I just watched another video on Sea of Stars, a scathing critique by someone who wanted to like it as much as I did, and it didn't for many of the same reasons I didn't. After watching it and feeling validated, I remembered I had this video in my Watch Later for weeks now, so I decided to watch it as well, for a counterpoint. After watching these two long videos, one full of criticism and another full of praise, I think I'm decided for now: I'll wait for Sabotage's next game. I'll see if it hits me closer to how The Messenger hit me, or closer to how Sea of Stars hit me. If it pulls me into this world, I'll gladly give Sea of Stars another chance, and I'll play it even if for the worldbuilding alone.
If not, then… well, at least it indirectly caused me to find and play the best JRPG I've ever known.
Wonderful video
caught goose bumps around the 4th act.
Your making wondful stuff man
Thank you so much!!
Phenomenal vid! Definitely helped me appreciate both SoS and The Messenger more.
Haven't watched this yet but I know it's gonna be a banger, beat sea of stars last week and it was a joy seeing all the ways it subtly connected to the messenger which was already a game I loved, can't wait to see where things go from here
Hey, Wiz.
While I had some glimpses of Sabotage studio through the stories of The Messenger and on Sea of Stars, your video gave a better context to them. Great video!
Thanks Luke!
This was great! I've had this video on my list for a while but wanted to wait until I finished the game (and life definitely got in the way of that). Really great to learn more about the team that created the game and how it all came to be. It was a very special game for me. I haven't played The Messenger and kinda figured it might not be my kinda game, but I'm definitely feeling more convinced that I should give it a go sometime.
God dude, you've come such a long way even between now and the last video. I think even by comparing the length of this to your past few videos one might think you paired things down a bit for tighter pacing, but honestly I feel like you still went full bore on both Sea of Stars, The Messenger and the devs Sabotage Studio. The production is really clean and nice. I think I could spend hours just soaking in your videos and find new edits/transitions/little things to be like YO HOLD UP WHAT WAS THAT? THAT WAS SLICK AS HELL. Ah man, I really loved this even as someone who bounced REALLY hard off The Messenger. Really, great stuff! Who knows maybe you got me considering firing up The Messenger again!
Thank you my dude, I'm proud to know that this video inspiring you to pick The Messenger back up is even a possibility.
Fantastic script, as always!
People seems very happy by your work. That's great!
17:37 God this subtle edit with the audio is so clean. Love stuff like that.
Yeah, looks like I gotta add two more games to the wishlist. Ugh.
I appreciate you catching that :) I hope you can enjoy these games as much as I did if you get the chance to give em a try!
I watched this entire video because neither game was on my radar. I'm now pretty interest in both games, but man is my backlog huge lol.
That's great to hear! The first part, that is... not quite the backlog part which I can certainly relate to.
You deserve more subs!
let's fucking goooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
God I love this crazy lil' universe
Ima be completely honest I completely forgot this man existed. I subscribed in November and when I saw the video I was like “who the fu-“
I'm glad you loved this game, but man, the combat definitely had not enough friction for me, as you put it. The lock system made it so that about halfway through the game I never saw boss special attacks anymore, because it was so easy to just break every single boss lock. The lock system is neat at first, but by the end it feels like it is just telling you exactly what the optimal move to do is every turn.
Yeah I think that's totally fair imo. I loved Sea of Stars but I thought of it less as a companion piece/soul sequel to Chrono Trigger but rather Super Mario RPG in terms of it's JRPG-ness and gameplay. Very easy going game; borderline comfy. But the story and the characters (and the graphics and music let's be real) were the real main feast of the game.
Totally fair criticism. That was actually a part of the game that I really enjoyed and I can further explain why it hit harder for me. It reminded me of Paper Mario - The Origami King. That system actually infuriated me because it felt as if there was always a correct solution that I was really struggling to find, and I ended shelving the game because of it. I recognize that Sea of Stars is perhaps a much easier game than maybe others felt it should be, but it hit a sweet spot for me unlike Origami King. I felt as though there were enough locks that encouraged players to think about several turns in advance to fully negate, and that gelled well with my playstyle while feeling really rewarding to pull off.
@@wizawhat Yeah, it just didn't gel for me the same way it obviously does for you and lots of other players. There's still a lot to like about Sea of Stars, but for me, it's what holds me back from loving it instead of just really liking it.
I'm absolutely with you about the concerns of a developer being TOO ambitious with their narrative when a future isn't secured. It's a problem with most television and of course it's gonna be a problem with games. Heck I think Shenmue is never getting finished because it's creator didn't take advantage of his crowdfunded goal to potentially increase the pace of the storyline and try to head it towards more of a conclusion (Because honestly Shenmue IIIs story has NOTHING going on imo and isn't even halfway done). Having just become a Trails series fan (Which seems to be the most ambitious idea of something like this, just with the same genre) if any day they decided they lacked the funding to continue making more of those that'd suck too cuz that's way deeper into what they're trying to do.
In this case of Sea of Stars, I see signs of overambition but not so much in the world building but just making sure storylines are given the proper attention and reach natural conclusions. I think the messenger had a similar problem ending after a dlc chapter that felt like there was going to be more. Some of the larger characters at work in this story definitely need more but I did still receive a fair amount of closure from the experience. In addition I only recently learned they're working on DLC content for this game so hopefully that will help set up where Sabotages priorities lie in what they have vs where they want to go.
Great video man, long spiel aside, just glad to look at this beautiful game for 50 mins honestly.
I appreciate your insight! I also felt the same way after completing The Messenger's DLC. I'm 99% sure I heard in one interview with Thierry that there was an initial plan for not just one, but several DLC additions to The Messenger, which could explain why Picnic Panic ended in that fashion. I'm unsure if that particular storyline will conclude in The Messenger as planned though - anything can happen at this point. I'm also really looking forward to Throes of the Watchmaker!
Yeah It seemed to be implied they were gonna keep going. Maybe budget restrictions? Or maybe as you say they'll find some way to carry it on in this universe they created. Throes of the Watchmaker should be dope@@wizawhat
I didn't end the video to avoid spoilers, but with your first statement about rpgs and jrpg... Have you tried the Octopath Traveler's? Specifically the 2?
I have not played either of the Octopath games. If you think based on that statement that I would enjoy Octopath 2, then I'll definitely keep it in consideration.
Same
Never played the Messenger and did Sea of Stars, the game is great but its link with The Messenger is mishandled and the ending of SoS is downplayed because of it.
The writing in The Messenger, as well as how easy the game was made me refund it. The writing though genuinely made me groan, it's awful
I really love your writing, and your style of video editing, but the way you... pause. And EMphasize words... Makes me feel slightly insane. It's probably a me problem, but it makes me feel like you're talking down to me, almost? Like you're reframing your actual thoughts into a cadence for a young child. Like I said, it's probably a me problem, but I wanted to mention it as something that keeps me from recommending your channel to people, even though I think you have really cool things to say.
I'm going to be honest with you because it seems like you're trying to give honest feedback. I actually think that if you really like what I have to say but cannot get over the way I speak, maybe the content is actually just not for you. I'm not even going to try to justify the way I speak in videos because I'm confident in my approach. I do think it's kind of weird that you felt the need to say this after repeatedly stressing that it is likely a you thing. The feedback is noted but I'm not so desperate for a recommendation that I'm going to change my pattern of speaking. Thanks for the consideration though. 👍
@@wizawhat That's fair, I just wanted to put it out there as something that might be off putting, if it was an affectation you were trying out as a presentation voice. I didn't mean to offend! Best of luck with video creation going forward 👋
@@wizawhat I wouldn't have made a comment about this, but as someone who had never watched one of your videos before, I respectfully agree. At some point I noticed I was actually getting a bit stressed out, like I was yearning for you to get to your point already, so I set playback speed to 1.5x and had a better time. Maybe this feedback was weirdly communicated, but I think you should probably give it more than zero consideration.
i just saw sea of stars and wanted to drop by and say it's the worst jrpg i've ever played. I'm an elitist though so i only try to play good games, cya
I bet you're fun to be around
Makoto pfp spotted 🤢