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Trust me, kids DO see these renders and think "thats not coooooll!" - i saw it live at a walmart. They might not have fancy words like "silhoette" or anything, but kids will see the difference between "ew" "meh" and "ayo thats actually pretty sick". That's how it's always been
Exactly what I wanted to say, even I look at games from their art styles and design and get turned off from them just because they don't look satisfying or interesting. Kids absolutely look at this stuff. He'll it's the first thing they look at.
Yeah, when I was a kid I could absolutely 100% tell the difference between how the Sonic Riders games had sick artwork that oozed style compared to the Sonic and All-Stars Racing games which just used renders. I actually never played the All-Stars series until I was way older cause I genuinely disliked how those games looked compared to Riders.
I definitely noticed this as well, even with myself when I was younger. I wasn't into Sonic in particular, but my opinions on games and other forms of media were shaped by artstyles and animation. I would tend to avoid stuff that I thought was ugly when I was younger
fr like, I grew up in the 2010s area of sonic when the renders started to get used more often but I still gravitated more to the adventure artwork because it looked alot better
His design absolutely has issues beyond just posing. You can make it work and Sega just never really tried that hard but it could be much easier if aspects of his character was toned down (like his hands). The Boom design was actually pretty good and he doesn't need to have sports tape and a scarf but if Sonic had proportions like Boom he'd look a lot better in more circumstances.
To put it simply: They need to be more creative with the rigging and posing. The renders look bad because they don't do much outside of just setting his limbs there. His quills, face and eyes never move enough. It sucks because they've proven that the marza design is ABSOLUTELY capable of looking better.
Imo, the marza designs never looked good. They just feel like crappy recreations of the artwork designs. I mean, look at eggman, they completely got his arms wrong! His coat arms are much larger than they should be, and his shoulders are too slim, despite being drawn to have really broad looking shoulders. It just makes his head look bigger than they should look.
@@areakastudios6704 um, no? I'm not, I literally joined the fandom since 2020, and even then, I notice the designs of the models looked terrible compared to the artworks.
For the longest time, it's driven me nuts how expressive Sonic and co. look in 2D art versus how soulless and goofy they look in 3D renders. Easily the best aspect of Boom was that it (mostly) fixed this, but that just drives me even nutsier because that means it's a completely fixable problem.
Agreed. The bland, flavorless, upscaling and Wii copycatting of the Wii U era kinda broke me. At least from the Switch's inception to now, it does seem that that missing level of energy, effort, and care is returning to video games.
It's partially the proportions. Modern Sonic has big hands because classic sonic has big hands. They kept it around without understanding why classic sonic needed big hands. Even then Classic Sonic's hands aren't that proportionately big compared to Modern. we're not trapped on some 64x64 sprite sheet anymore and we have the technology for proper facial and hand animation/posing. They made a good move making Sonic longer but seemed to have fired the Adventure designer halfway through the process.
I think it's ironic how one of my favorite render of Sonic... happens to be made by Nintendo with Smash Ultimate. It sort of feels like he's being cocky while also having a pose that sort of resembles his playstyle with faster movements and how most of the aerials he has revolves around kicks which is shown in the render. Though it's also ironic how one of my favorite Mario renders... is made by SEGA with the Olympic games.
@@sonicstar917 Yup people can hate on Brawl all they want but Sonic atleast made facial expressions and had expressive taunts in that game. I'll never forgive Smash 4 and Ult for making Sonic of all characters one of the most boring, basic, and least faithful characters ever added to Smash.
It wouldn't be that bad, it's just that they're so static in their posing. Like they need more dynamic angles or shots of them, kind of like the secret rings cover art or frontiers cover.
@@mint_1919 When Sonic and his friends were brought to 3d in the Adventure game, they were redesigned by Yuji Uekawa. Sadly the only modern Sonic games he was involved with are Unleashed and Lost World. The rest were done various artists.
I will always defend Boom/Movie's choice of smaller features, because it helps not only with hand expressions, but also the readability of the faces. That and a lot of 3D Sonic unfortunately relies on grey shading and non-emotive faces. Maybe that's why I love Sonic in comic mediums- that even when IDW is playing it safe, there's more emotions overall with it and Archie, with the only drawbacks being some limits, whether it be colourists or probably the brow-ridge that nearly never moves.
I DESPISE gray shading. First rule of satisfying art for me when I draw is to never shade with black unless it's a really bleak or monochrome piece, and even then I avoid it. I wish they would stop that... such a big pet peeve.
@@corruptedteka I'm hoping they try a more cel shading take, and more stylized models, but the eyes barely move or adapt, causing Sonic's eyes to seem more like a weird screen than anything.
Posing and lighting go a long way. The renders themselves could also stand to be touched up a bit to feel less overly smooth as well. Mario has this problem as well.
Well said. I agree that posing and lighting are important. That’s why most of the Unleashed renders of modern Sonic look so good imo. Sonic is posed well, he expresses a little bit of attitude, and the lighting is awesome. I wish Sega would go back to that type of render.
@GameKnight-GK Finally, finally they made Mario look shorter and fatter in this new 2D game that is more accurate to his charming promotional art back in the 90s allowing for more expressive animation, those New Soup renders where he's thinner but more lifeless had to go a long time ago. EDIT: they already changed it up in Odyssey to look better but only in that game and it seems like Nintendo has completely moved past that game already.
I find so bizarre vanilla the rabbit is the only adult looking character with a different body shape that still doesn't look that weird even tho she still feels like she fits that aestethic of regular sonic style (big head/hands/feet). I wish we had more variation in character design than every animal having to copy sonic body style and not only the big strong guys having to be the tall ones
Modern Archie and IDW sort of tried to push what could be done with these designs, with Modern Archie introducing more species and IDW playing more with design elements like eyes, snouts and ears, but it's still pretty bare bones in a lot of ways. At least the male character designs do get to pick between skinny, fat and bulky, meanwhile Thunderbolt the Chinchilla is the only character I can think of that actually tried to push the envelope on how female characters can look in that art style.
I do think the models could do with some subtle tweaks, but the main problem is definitely the poses and animation. Look at sonic prime, the characters look great there, and the models aren't that far off from the ones from the games, it's just that they made some subtle tweaks like adding a bit of texture and made the animations very expressive end exaggerated.
Tbh i love them i mean i know they look stiff but hey they look cool for me, i mean don't get me wrong i like almost all of the official renders from sonic (going trought the génesis era till modern era) but to be honest i don't like the sonic adventure 1 and the sonic 06 renders i mean it's not like that i hate them but for some reason seeing them so shinny is just unappealing for me, but hey if you want to disagree with me you're free to do it after all u do u i guess XDDDD
I think a big issue is how defined the lips are with the dimples and curls, they look just a tad too natural. Posing is also an issue as Sonic is a cartoon character meant to be in motion, and the still renders are very stiff and don't do many exaggerated poses, having more extreme angles in the leans, or stretching the limbs slightly would make it more interesting.
I think what irks me the most about these renders is how the mouths look really unnerving for some reason, it makes it look like Sonic’s lips got stung by a bee or something. (See 4:45 and 4:50 for examples of what I mean.)
My personal issue with these are how harsh the shading and texturing looks on most of them. Like with the glossy glass like eyes, the stains or damage on the shoes, the noticeably large gaps of thread on the gloves, the weirdly tiny lips on the mouth, the arm sockets on Sonic’s body, or with the barely noticeable fur texture that really stands out when everything else is super textured. I don’t hate these renders but they feel pretty outdated compared to some of the newer ones with better lighting and textures, making the old ones feel like they would have looked good back then but rough now.
Sonic's design flourishes best when his style is more "curvy" and well rounded. Current Sonic Model is too stiff to flex that aspect about Sonic, with sharp edges in all the wrong places. For instance. > The edge where his eye ends along his muzzle > His stiff, straight limbs > Spines have zero flow to the rest of his body, despite them being his trademark > Bulky shoes break the flow of his poses. > Eyebrow crease makes his head feel cut in half for the reason its extended too far up his head > Socks and glove creases are TOO round and TOO big in contrast to the rest of his body and makes it hard on the eyes > Mouth feels too gaping and sometimes his visible lips ruin everything > For the size of Sonic's hands, they are too realistic and angular that it destroys his aesthetic > Massive eyes are the first thing you see and the fact that they don't look good is already jarring.
i feel like even the way they use expressions on the models look stiff? like, instead of using the brows for extra emotion, they just use the eyelids and it's super weird and feels empty. other than that, completely agreed. great video!
Here’s the thing. The current look of Sonic is actually my favorite look…sometimes. In stuff like Unleashed and Generations, And specifically in stuff like the CGI Unelashed Opening it’s my favorite look because in those instances the animators make I expressive and come to life. That should be the staple of Sonic Renders IMO.
I agree. Especially with the hands being to big… I kinda wish they’d just use the Uekawa art for the games again. Hell, do a cel-shaded Sonic game or something. His character design looks best when it’s done in 2D art, so I think they should adopt a more stylized art look for future games.
I'm a little surprised you didn't say anything about the texture mapping on the characters' "fur". Like sometimes, the blue on Sonic has these streaks that I guess(?) is supposed to stand in for actual quills, but if so it blends /too much/ into the overall shape of his spikes. Movie Sonic makes that work by rendering the individual quills, but that's easy on a Hollywood budget.
Sorta reminds me how although I like and approve it Sonic's in level looks in Sonic Rush and the DS port of Sonic Colors (I own the Wii version also, and am of the opinion that both ports have some of the most stunning graphics on the DS or the Wii). I have no clue why, but an off kilter mix of typical game Sonic royal blue, and Sonic X navy blue factor into Sonic's Rush Adventure appearance. I've only played Rush Adventure a few times via renting it from the now defunct chain, Family Video (more or less the Southeast Iowa/Northwest Illinois border equivalent of Blockbuster) yet I remember having thought: Sonic blue is supposed to be closer in shading to anime water, or royal blue than navy blue or VCR blue screen blue.
Crash Bandicoot remakes with more of a furry texture approach. And yeah those games run on Switch stop excusing Sega's laziness blaming Nintendo for their mistakes.
THANK YOU! For years I thought I was crazy for thinking Modern Knuckles looks weird, yet never being able to quite put my finger on why. I was introduced to this character through the Classic sprites and Sonic X and loved his design there, yet I always thought he looked really boring in the Modern art style.
The problem with Sonic's model may be that Mario, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Crash, etc. have been relatively close to the artwork in recent years, but the difference from the design is drastic.
Bro. I get it. But it’s okay you don’t have to apologize for exercising your observational skills. Picking niche topics like this and diving deep with it also really makes you appreciate the little details in all sorts of media. Never apologize for that❤️ great video keep it up fr
I think the big hands and head situation needs to be addressed by SEGA really soon. I think SEGA needs to give a slight overall update to the artstyle to make them easier to animate. Both Boom and Movie sonic understandably found the, hard to animate and even sonic prime. Literally any iteration of the character in a animated form has had to shrink it down. Forces gave sonic slightly smaller arms and frontiers used that to give us better animated cutscenes that don’t feel so stiff. I think subtle changes like that is what we need for fluid cutscene animation something the franchise has struggled with for a long time now. I honestly think Sonic’s Design in 06’s CGI cutscenes is the perfect design for him to be animated well.
I always prefered the 2d artwork for sonic and mario compared to the generic 3d models that lack emotion and are very generic to appeal to the wide kid audience for store merchandise.
I think the biggest thing about Sonic in modern renders at least, is the emphasis on his mouth and having his mouth open too much. If you cut the 3D mouth and just drew a cartoony one on his muzzle instead, it would already improve the renders tenfold.
I think what they should do is tweek the designs just a little bit, use better lighting, incorporate better posings, and make them more expressive. I feel as though Sonic Prime has given us a good idea of how pretty and expressive Sonic and his friends could look. Btw I totally agree with you on Knuckles. I think if Sega were to tweek the designs of Sonic's cast, Knuckles should be given special attention. He just doesn't give off the powerful echidna warrior vibe he should have. He honestly looks kinda wimpy to me.
What always bugged me about Modern Sonic's model is how he always has his mouth on the side of his face, obviously this is so that they can do the side smirk thing, but when he actually talks it's just one of the many things that make him look "off". Especially if you're looking at him from a front-on perspective. Which is why I'm glad for things like Sonic Boom and Sonic Prime, they decided to make his mouth centered so that it looks at least a bit more organic and expressive.
Sonic Prime doesn't middle mouth, they use all the positions, like Sonic was suppose to, like Sonic DID do since Sonic 1 that stopped in SA1 because Dreamcast
These feel like valid criticisms. There’s a lot of nuance that goes into charater design and 3d renders, so it’s hard to talk about it without sounding nitpicky. I really miss when they experimented more with the art style. Battle and Riders had so much personality.
Sonic Riders art style was kinda bad. The extra thick arms and legs and huge hands and shoes look terrible. You guys like to nitpick about the renders but praise the cgi in the games like the Unleashed opening. saying thats the best. Also praising the game cover arts. when the cgi and renders and all use the same Sonic model.
I think one thing they could do to shift up the artstyle is go for sharper edges like the 2D art of Sonic Riders. The Sonic Colors render you showed did exactly that, and when he’s animated in 2D, Sonic’s always given sharper edges as well. Sonic in the beginning was designed as an antithesis of Mario, so while he goes more round and soft, make Sonic more rough and sharp. Could be some fun visual contrast.
I feel the same honestly, knuckles's render bothers me the most I mean they really massacred my boi with the ridiculous dreadlocks. 😭 On another note why did they shorten his muzzle over the years? I love his long snoz ( to me at least) it made him differentiate from Sonic, I feel it made him resemble an echidna and not just another hedgehog. I'm glad us Sonic nerds can unite and discuss anything to do with this franchise, thank you Splash Dash. 🙏🏽
I 100% agree. Knuckles should look like a powerful echidna warrior who has the strength to disarm most of Sonic's attacks. Not a red Sonic the Hedgehog with a different haircut and massive hands.
@@GordanTheToad When Sonic and his friends were brought to 3d in the Adventure game, they were redesigned by Yuji Uekawa. Sadly the only modern Sonic games he was involved with are Unleashed and Lost World. The rest were done various artists.
YES! His snout is way too short in the modern art style. Has anyone at SEGA looked at any echidnas recently? Their snoots are long, boopable and blow bubbles. That's way more interesting than the default Sonic snout.
@@rainpooper7088 Definitely! The proportions of each character have become to vague now and they're loosing their individual designs that made them stand out from each over. : Hands too big , eyes too big and body too small. Sega please just extend HIS SNOUT.
The giant head and hands problem you've pointed had also been pointed out by Dan Floyd in his Animation of Sonic Games video. Dan is an animator, used to work with PIXAR Canada for the Partysaurus Rex short. He made the same criticism you made about how disproportionate the hands and head look in Modern Sonic. And why Boom Sonic have fixed up the problems.
How on earth did you not mention anything about the mouth and how it’s inconsistent for every character ? Some characters have side mouth Sonic ,Shadow ,Knuckles ,Rouge ,Espio ,Silver While others have a middle mouth Amy ,Tails ,Cream ,Blaze ,Charmy
i do think the sonic cast need either a remodel or the tiniest redesign (mainly designing them so that they have smaller hands, feet, eyes ect..) They could also use that to fix some of the noticeable rigging limitations and give them a bit more character in their design. also i think Amy needs a larger redesign shes so plain... but thats just me at the end of the day it doesn't matter and i dont really care
Hey here's hoping the sequel to Frontiers happens after a little timeskip so we can actually get some improved designs ! Heck you could make the characters have slightly less kiddy proportions just with that excuse.
Modern Amy's dress has been the hardest design for me coming in late to the Sonic franchise. So the return Classic Amy's outfit has been such a breath of fresh air!
*Someone brings up a small, general, inconciquential detail about Sonic in a positive light while acknowledging it's smallness* Sonic fans: That's really cool. *Someone brings up a small, general, inconciquential detail about Sonic in a negative light while acknowledging it's smallness* Sonic fans: Burn it with fire! Boy, do I just *love* it when people decide something is bad purely because it's negative.
Great video on the sonic renders. I realized this maybe a year ago while thinking about the models and how bad they look but then thought about how they can look amazing in some renders and then like complete crap in others. I realized that it's really the horrible renders that make these model look worse than they really are. They still need to update the models tho.
Funny story so my school doesn't know much about sonic so I ask all my friends to choose which sonic model looks better a generic official modern render or a fan made render that looks like the sa2 art which looks great in my opinion, and every single one of my friends prefer the generic model they all said it's because it looks familiar that just goes to show how popular that model is to general audiences.
Modern Sonic has been very lifeless for awhile, feels more like a guy in a mascot suit than an actual character. They don't animate his eye shape at all, they animate him in mo-cap in alot of cutscenes, and his gloves and shoes are so big they can't be put anywhere.
The renders are fine, by and large, but I definitely would wanna see them take a bit of some cues from the original Classic, Adventure, and even to an extent, Unleashed designs to really give Sonic a design that carries his charm as well as fixes some issues like how big his eyes are
I think the Marza model is already great on it's own when you look at Sonic Unleashed opening cutscenes or those Werehog specials, very cartoony movement and expressive. It's just Sega being corporate lazy.
@@islandboy9381 Oh yeah, definitely. It's just the genuinely lack of proper expressions done with the face for such a cartoony design that feels lifeless. Admittedly I am biased towards the Adventure era proportions, especially on the eyes, moreso than the Unleashed ones.
@@unnamed12346 When Sonic and his friends were brought to 3d in the Adventure game, they were redesigned by Yuji Uekawa. Sadly the only modern Sonic games he was involved with are Unleashed and Lost World. The rest were done various artists.
5:50 after noticing there was no divide between sonics eyes like knuckles has, i started hating how huge his eyes were because it looks like the majority of his head is some freakish cyclope abomination
I absolutely agree. Take the birthday render for example... Sonic has this weird, lifeless smile that curls inward in this awkward way. His smile is always scrunched up, or his mouth is very slightly open and wrinkled at the corners for some reason. I don't mind the SIZE of his eyes too much, it's just they keep getting more reflective over time and now they look very glassy and lifeless. It definitely doesn't help that his poses are always very stiff, and his spines are often facing away from view so you just see the front of his head... and in that regard it doesn't help that his spines have gotten shorter and very stiff, so not being able to see them just makes him look kind of weird. Forces looked like it had some neat ideas but still made Sonic have huge mitts and feet, but Frontiers looks like it reigned it in a little bit and they did a way better job with posing the character and making him seem ALIVE. Overall I feel like the current renders tend to feel very lifeless and soulless and kind of devoid of style. The "style" they're going for always seems like some offshot of a Disney character, it feels very "default" and it feels like it lacks an identity.
I will always love the current Sonic models, but I can agree that sometimes they look goofy. I just kinda like the way they look, with them having that Pixar CGI look to 'em, specifically in pre-rendered cutscenes and trailers with how cool they look in action. IDK, it's just a preferenece, and it most likely has to do with the fact that my first exposure to Sonic was the Generations CGI Opening, which has arguably the same look. Also, why is the video so quiet-
Not an over reaction at all. While sonic is a product at the end of the day he is an expression of art as well. And all of your points here are very valid
i’d bet the reason the Superstars renders for the side characters (specifically Knuckles) look so good is because they were forced to create a brand new render because one of classic Knuckles didn’t exist yet, meanwhile they’re reusing the same ones for Classic and Modern Sonic from over 10 years ago
Honestly, as much as people hate Sonic 2006 for obvious reasons, I find the edgier designs very charming (well... not so much in game). 06 was my first exposure to modern sonic as a child, and yes while nostalgia probably plays a big part in it, those depictions of sonic in the artwork, in the cutscenes, and the loading screen really stuck with me. I think it does in fact have to do with the personality in his poses and expression. They really felt like they matched the character. Although to this day, I still have no clue what they were thinking with that eggman redesign.
Yeah, I think one of the things that really still feels off to me in Frontiers is the fact that you have this serious storyline, huge boss battles with metalcore music blaring, but all the character designs look straight out of Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. They're missing that edge from Adventure-'06, and it makes things feel...weird.
Honestly so relieved the new Sonic Superstar game has new renders that look good and a breath of fresh air. But I do hope they give Modern Sonic new renders that actually look good and full of life with detail like with Nintendo and Mario Odyssey. So glad I’m not the only one who thinks this. The 06 and Unleashed cinematic cutscene renders are amazing and I’d love to see their own twist on something like that.
One thing in particular that always irks me is their mouths. Their mouths are so weird and lumpy, it's like they're all suffering from the mumps. It looks especially bad when characters are doing a closed mouth smirk, the sides of their mouths just look so chunky and they don't fit with how their muzzle shape looks. Amy always gets it the worst. She always ends up looking like she's holding a pair of marbles in the sides of her mouth.
One of my BIGGEST nitpicks, one i have seen absolutely nobody point out, is how the white shine in Sonic's irises is coming from the BOTTOM of his pupil. This implies that the light sources are always coming from BELOW Sonic's eye level, and it always looked terrible to me. Sonic Prime fixed this, and it strangely looks infinitely better because it's more in-line with other cartoony character depictions. This problem wasn't something they started doing until Unleashed, so certain nuances like this have added up over the last 10 years to give us such a bland and offputting design for all the Sonic characters' renders.
I think the reason why no one complains is because literally everyone ignores that shit when doing fan art, even literal children drawing in MSP place the highlight at the top because even they instinctively know that's where it belongs. This isn't even a weird stylistic choice thing like with Mario (Mario's standard 2D art positions eye highlights inside or outside of the pupil depending on whether the character is male or female), it's just outright wrong, especially in 3D where you can see the effects of the light source extremely accurately everywhere else. In art school, this would definitely get you marked down, but I do get why no one on the internet actively takes issue with it.
What I would do to make sonic better: Make the head, hands and shoes smaller. Add necks and clothing for male characters. Stop being a age 4+ franchise and become a age 13+ franchise, make a seperate sub-franchise for classic sonic, turn modern sonic into adventure sonic, take more shonen influence from dragon ball and JoJo.
You know,I feel like the Kirby franchise did right for the renders on the Characters by making them unique looking in each different game without making them feel generic
I think the poses and the shading are mostly the main issue, the shading specially is something that I see tends to ruin a lot of 3D models in general, not only Sonic, at least Mario has started to fix that problem nowadays, "oh but now it looks so corporate" your mom looks corporate, the renders are objectively prettier, so I think Sega should also try, the Sonic Colors remaster is clearly the right direction so far
Yeah, I agree like renders from TSR & Frontiers are probably in my eyes the best renders But yes Sonic renders do need improvement to fully show the Character at its Prime
I think another part of the issue (in my opinion, tho this is a common one) is that the character's arms weren't intended to bend realistically at the elbow like they do now- at least not all the time. They were more curved to give an almost rubberhose animation era splash of class to otherwise very edgy modern designs, which paired well with their proportions and white glove motifs. Granted I do think his proportions have improved, but if you're gonna keep the big hands then the arms should be bendy, not angular. It makes it more stylistic and dynamic even during static poses. But if you *must* keep the elbow bend, then make their hands and feet smaller to compensate. Like the inconsistencies in the models themselves are basically a microcosm of the franchise now- inconsistent. But given how well Frontiers and the Sonic movies have done and Ian Flynn and Tyson Hesse being involved and fans themselves, I'm hoping this is the prelude to a comeback.
I don't know why they modelized Sonic to makes him stiff like a straw and make him walk like he's entirely leg/arm casted. I don't understand. 2000's Sonic don't have this problem indeed.
I honestly love the designs in Sonic Prime. They took the standard modern models, and added so much flare to them. Sonic’s eyes were made a little smaller and flatter, he has a way better shade of blue now, and every character has fur detailing. The Amy design from Sonic Prime is my new favorite design for Amy. I feel like Sonic Prime added some flare to the older models, and their so expressive in that show. Overall, Sonic Prime has made the modern designs WAY BETTER
I think SEGA really just needs to realize that it's okay to redesign characters. (I don't mean drastically, btw.) If you look at Mario, he has redesigns like every 3 or 4 years, it's crazy. And they're not massive redesigns, but you can still notice a lot of features in renders and games that was altered. And sometimes it's not even consistent across games. If you look at Odyssey's Mario and compare it to Mario Strikers Battle League's Mario-- they're not the same. And now with Super Mario Wonder, and the Super Mario RPG remake, we're seeing pretty large stylistic changes that adapt the character to look more appealing in different scenarios. And if you compare the in-game Wonder Mario to the Mario in Wonder's key-art, you'll see a huge difference. And it's because the key-art uses some of the current models they use for promotional renders, probably for consistency's sake. It's funny because Yoshi's design is drastically altered in-game, yet his promo render looks the same as always. And Yoshi really is the key here. It can be hard to change a design that is so cemented and recognizable-- but sometimes you have to! And you know what? Most people won't notice! I'm willing to bet most of the people reading this have no idea that Donkey Kong got a redesign in 2015, and that Mario Kart 8's DK model is outdated because of it. I know my main problem is less with the model and more with how Sonic is posed and animated. They look like mascot costumes, but with altered models, that wouldn't be as big of a problem. My biggest problem is actually Sonic's mouth, and how it's animated. They use constant side-mouth in games like Frontiers and it looks horrible. Sonic should be able to use center-mouth in a lot of situations, and only use side-mouth when it fits.
@@traviscunningham7062 To everyone except mario fans. I still dont know whats wrong with the one theyve used in stores for 15 years. If it aint broke, dont fix it
@@theinktician When people bring up Mario renders, they're typically mentioning the stock renders that were made around the GameCube and Wii eras that sometimes still get used to this day, which are obviously outdated in terms of texturing, lighting, the works. But I don't think I've seen people legitimately complain about it, more so meme on it. Hell, Nintendo actually remade some of them with their newer models.
@@traviscunningham7062 When Sonic and his friends were brought to 3d in the Adventure games, they were redesigned by Yuji Uekawa. Sadly the only modern Sonic games he was involved with are Unleashed and Lost World. The rest were done various artists.
with most of the renders with the hedgehogs, when they had their mouths closed, it always had a weird looking shape to it, like an over bite or with like that lol
everytime when I see Classic Sonic's design, it looks like he's saying: "hey, I'm Sonic, and I'm your friend!" but when I see this Sonic design.... it looks like: "PLEASE GIVE ME MONEY!"
Hi, I'm a 3D artist, and I think Sonic should be NPR instead of PBR. Give him some toon shading and a nice outline, like in Sonic Shuffle or Sonic Rush. That's the main issue in my opinion. Realism isn't always a good choice, especially for cartoony characters. The issue was not always as visible in older games/renders due to the lack of tech when it came to making realistic scenes. With NPR and/or 2D renders, Sonic wouldn't look as bad even with extremely generic poses.
Then again, this is the downside of relying on stock renders for merch and promotional material. You end up making your brand feel alot more homogenized.(Doesn't help that it seems to be compounded by the reliance on Green Hill zone.)
@@benmalsky9834 When Sonic and his friends were brought to 3d in the Adventure game, they were redesigned by Yuji Uekawa. Sadly the only modern Sonic games he was involved with are Unleashed and Lost World. The rest were done various artists.
Nonono this is important and you should say it ! We should be discussing the art direction and character designs, because thats literally WHAT YOU SEE when you look at anything from the franchise ! They should have appeal ! Look cool and pretty ! Being recognizeable just isnt enough.
Tbh in my opinion thats why i always liked how the younger sonic looked back in the older games ans now with orgins and superstars makes me go like he looks soo good i dont get why they decided to go with the sonic we have not when the other one looks so much better
Don't forget Yui Karasuno who does fantastic art for the Japanese Sonic twitter that the American one won't post for some reason, given they're too focused on lame memes, but I would just get her and Uekawa to do the art.
they also fail to use any other color of light than flourescent white in the renders you're talking about, which makes them look as if they were photographed in a hospital
I personally, love seeing you complain. You have very interesting points and its very fun to listen to you discuss your thoughts on a topic while thinking about my own on that same topic.
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No
No Mark! I won't
ARE WE SERIOUSLY *_STILL_* DOING THIS?!?!
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Fuck no
Trust me, kids DO see these renders and think "thats not coooooll!" - i saw it live at a walmart. They might not have fancy words like "silhoette" or anything, but kids will see the difference between "ew" "meh" and "ayo thats actually pretty sick". That's how it's always been
Exactly what I wanted to say, even I look at games from their art styles and design and get turned off from them just because they don't look satisfying or interesting.
Kids absolutely look at this stuff. He'll it's the first thing they look at.
Yeah, when I was a kid I could absolutely 100% tell the difference between how the Sonic Riders games had sick artwork that oozed style compared to the Sonic and All-Stars Racing games which just used renders. I actually never played the All-Stars series until I was way older cause I genuinely disliked how those games looked compared to Riders.
I definitely noticed this as well, even with myself when I was younger. I wasn't into Sonic in particular, but my opinions on games and other forms of media were shaped by artstyles and animation. I would tend to avoid stuff that I thought was ugly when I was younger
fr like, I grew up in the 2010s area of sonic when the renders started to get used more often but I still gravitated more to the adventure artwork because it looked alot better
@@SoIsticeI hated the 3D art for Sonic Adventure DX, but I'm glad I still got the game.
It really does just come down to posing imo. Some fan renders look so much nicer by just giving Sonic a more personality filled pose
Most of it cuz of materials/textures and lighting, your ass can do any Jojo pose you want, but if your shaders suck you are stuck being plastic like
His design absolutely has issues beyond just posing. You can make it work and Sega just never really tried that hard but it could be much easier if aspects of his character was toned down (like his hands). The Boom design was actually pretty good and he doesn't need to have sports tape and a scarf but if Sonic had proportions like Boom he'd look a lot better in more circumstances.
Nah
The design can onky range from okay to terrible. It can never truly be great
Idk. There's nothing wrong with the Frontiers poses - the models just...smh
yeah no
I’m so happy somebody recognized the whole “Knuckles’ head is way too flat” complaint because I swear I was going crazy.
i always felt the same even as a kid tho I feel movie knuckles fixed this by rounding the head
Bro spent 2 minutes on that thumbnail.
2 minutes was all he needed
works w the topic of the video
Looks like it was made by the social media team lol
That’s the point is it not
And it still looks legendary
To put it simply: They need to be more creative with the rigging and posing. The renders look bad because they don't do much outside of just setting his limbs there. His quills, face and eyes never move enough. It sucks because they've proven that the marza design is ABSOLUTELY capable of looking better.
I hope Sonic Superstars expressive animation will also be applied to Modern Sonic and not just a Classic thing.
Imo, the marza designs never looked good. They just feel like crappy recreations of the artwork designs.
I mean, look at eggman, they completely got his arms wrong! His coat arms are much larger than they should be, and his shoulders are too slim, despite being drawn to have really broad looking shoulders. It just makes his head look bigger than they should look.
@@michaeldunlap1032 I'm assuming you're a long time fine?
@@areakastudios6704 um, no? I'm not, I literally joined the fandom since 2020, and even then, I notice the designs of the models looked terrible compared to the artworks.
@@michaeldunlap1032 Ok, was just wondering. Also dang really? Even back in unleashed?
For the longest time, it's driven me nuts how expressive Sonic and co. look in 2D art versus how soulless and goofy they look in 3D renders.
Easily the best aspect of Boom was that it (mostly) fixed this, but that just drives me even nutsier because that means it's a completely fixable problem.
Comparing how Sonic looks in Sonic Jam art and how he looks in Sonic Superstars, man 2D easily sweeps for me no contest.
3D Sonic looks badass in black knight and secret rings renders, with decent posing or lighting 3D is just as good as 2D.
@@Breakaway-ic5gj Secret Rings and Black Knight CGI cutscenes mad underrated fr
Agreed. The bland, flavorless, upscaling and Wii copycatting of the Wii U era kinda broke me. At least from the Switch's inception to now, it does seem that that missing level of energy, effort, and care is returning to video games.
It's partially the proportions. Modern Sonic has big hands because classic sonic has big hands. They kept it around without understanding why classic sonic needed big hands. Even then Classic Sonic's hands aren't that proportionately big compared to Modern.
we're not trapped on some 64x64 sprite sheet anymore and we have the technology for proper facial and hand animation/posing. They made a good move making Sonic longer but seemed to have fired the Adventure designer halfway through the process.
I think it's ironic how one of my favorite render of Sonic... happens to be made by Nintendo with Smash Ultimate. It sort of feels like he's being cocky while also having a pose that sort of resembles his playstyle with faster movements and how most of the aerials he has revolves around kicks which is shown in the render.
Though it's also ironic how one of my favorite Mario renders... is made by SEGA with the Olympic games.
Reminds me of the official render of Mario and Amy skating together.
Too bad Sonic's model in Smash 4 and Ultimate is freakin' soulless.
@@sonicstar917 Yup people can hate on Brawl all they want but Sonic atleast made facial expressions and had expressive taunts in that game. I'll never forgive Smash 4 and Ult for making Sonic of all characters one of the most boring, basic, and least faithful characters ever added to Smash.
@@juneru2 Subspace Emissary completely redeems Brawl tbh
My favourite Mario render at least for 3D titles is Odyssey's.
But you aren't ready for this conversation.
It wouldn't be that bad, it's just that they're so static in their posing.
Like they need more dynamic angles or shots of them, kind of like the secret rings cover art or frontiers cover.
Or Unleashed, have you seen the render on the back of the game?
@@mint_1919there’s a decent one on the back of lost world’s deadly six edition cover
@@mint_1919 When Sonic and his friends were brought to 3d in the Adventure game, they were redesigned by Yuji Uekawa. Sadly the only modern Sonic games he was involved with are Unleashed and Lost World. The rest were done various artists.
I will always defend Boom/Movie's choice of smaller features, because it helps not only with hand expressions, but also the readability of the faces.
That and a lot of 3D Sonic unfortunately relies on grey shading and non-emotive faces. Maybe that's why I love Sonic in comic mediums- that even when IDW is playing it safe, there's more emotions overall with it and Archie, with the only drawbacks being some limits, whether it be colourists or probably the brow-ridge that nearly never moves.
I DESPISE gray shading. First rule of satisfying art for me when I draw is to never shade with black unless it's a really bleak or monochrome piece, and even then I avoid it. I wish they would stop that... such a big pet peeve.
@@corruptedteka I'm hoping they try a more cel shading take, and more stylized models, but the eyes barely move or adapt, causing Sonic's eyes to seem more like a weird screen than anything.
@@corruptedteka best type of black shading is the one they used for Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog
And Eggman in boom looks so much cooler imo
do you ever NOT complain????
love ur channel
do your videos ever get any louder
This needs more likes
Can't believe LSMark would say that to his good friend Splash Dash, I'm shook.
Both voices sound the same, SUS.
Posing and lighting go a long way. The renders themselves could also stand to be touched up a bit to feel less overly smooth as well. Mario has this problem as well.
Well said. I agree that posing and lighting are important. That’s why most of the Unleashed renders of modern Sonic look so good imo. Sonic is posed well, he expresses a little bit of attitude, and the lighting is awesome. I wish Sega would go back to that type of render.
Yeah the problem with Mario was especially abundant in the Wii/DS era.
Mario, really? Can you elaborate? I'm very curious?
@GameKnight-GK true.
@GameKnight-GK Finally, finally they made Mario look shorter and fatter in this new 2D game that is more accurate to his charming promotional art back in the 90s allowing for more expressive animation, those New Soup renders where he's thinner but more lifeless had to go a long time ago.
EDIT: they already changed it up in Odyssey to look better but only in that game and it seems like Nintendo has completely moved past that game already.
I find so bizarre vanilla the rabbit is the only adult looking character with a different body shape that still doesn't look that weird even tho she still feels like she fits that aestethic of regular sonic style (big head/hands/feet).
I wish we had more variation in character design than every animal having to copy sonic body style and not only the big strong guys having to be the tall ones
Modern Archie and IDW sort of tried to push what could be done with these designs, with Modern Archie introducing more species and IDW playing more with design elements like eyes, snouts and ears, but it's still pretty bare bones in a lot of ways. At least the male character designs do get to pick between skinny, fat and bulky, meanwhile Thunderbolt the Chinchilla is the only character I can think of that actually tried to push the envelope on how female characters can look in that art style.
What about big the cat
I do think the models could do with some subtle tweaks, but the main problem is definitely the poses and animation. Look at sonic prime, the characters look great there, and the models aren't that far off from the ones from the games, it's just that they made some subtle tweaks like adding a bit of texture and made the animations very expressive end exaggerated.
i rlly like the textures as i always felt Sonic felt weirdly smooth adding some fur like helps give texture
im so glad that other people feel this way about these renders ive hated them since i was a kid
Yeah I preferred the edgier shiny renders from the early-mid 2000s
@@paulgilbert5278those heroes renders looked ugly asf imo
@@lemon5000-tj6nvyeah reminds me of early video game cgi
@@lemon5000-tj6nvI liked them. Besides the shine.
Tbh i love them i mean i know they look stiff but hey they look cool for me, i mean don't get me wrong i like almost all of the official renders from sonic (going trought the génesis era till modern era) but to be honest i don't like the sonic adventure 1 and the sonic 06 renders i mean it's not like that i hate them but for some reason seeing them so shinny is just unappealing for me, but hey if you want to disagree with me you're free to do it after all u do u i guess XDDDD
I think a big issue is how defined the lips are with the dimples and curls, they look just a tad too natural. Posing is also an issue as Sonic is a cartoon character meant to be in motion, and the still renders are very stiff and don't do many exaggerated poses, having more extreme angles in the leans, or stretching the limbs slightly would make it more interesting.
I think what irks me the most about these renders is how the mouths look really unnerving for some reason, it makes it look like Sonic’s lips got stung by a bee or something. (See 4:45 and 4:50 for examples of what I mean.)
i don't think that way at all, to me, they look normal
My personal issue with these are how harsh the shading and texturing looks on most of them. Like with the glossy glass like eyes, the stains or damage on the shoes, the noticeably large gaps of thread on the gloves, the weirdly tiny lips on the mouth, the arm sockets on Sonic’s body, or with the barely noticeable fur texture that really stands out when everything else is super textured.
I don’t hate these renders but they feel pretty outdated compared to some of the newer ones with better lighting and textures, making the old ones feel like they would have looked good back then but rough now.
Sonic's design flourishes best when his style is more "curvy" and well rounded. Current Sonic Model is too stiff to flex that aspect about Sonic, with sharp edges in all the wrong places. For instance.
> The edge where his eye ends along his muzzle
> His stiff, straight limbs
> Spines have zero flow to the rest of his body, despite them being his trademark
> Bulky shoes break the flow of his poses.
> Eyebrow crease makes his head feel cut in half for the reason its extended too far up his head
> Socks and glove creases are TOO round and TOO big in contrast to the rest of his body and makes it hard on the eyes
> Mouth feels too gaping and sometimes his visible lips ruin everything
> For the size of Sonic's hands, they are too realistic and angular that it destroys his aesthetic
> Massive eyes are the first thing you see and the fact that they don't look good is already jarring.
i feel like even the way they use expressions on the models look stiff? like, instead of using the brows for extra emotion, they just use the eyelids and it's super weird and feels empty.
other than that, completely agreed. great video!
Here’s the thing. The current look of Sonic is actually my favorite look…sometimes. In stuff like Unleashed and Generations, And specifically in stuff like the CGI Unelashed Opening it’s my favorite look because in those instances the animators make I expressive and come to life. That should be the staple of Sonic Renders IMO.
Sonic Prime also does this well😊
@@memescoffee3173 Sonic Prime looks fantastic
I agree. Especially with the hands being to big… I kinda wish they’d just use the Uekawa art for the games again. Hell, do a cel-shaded Sonic game or something. His character design looks best when it’s done in 2D art, so I think they should adopt a more stylized art look for future games.
As much as I enjoy the Uekawa art, i would prefer if every game went for a different artstyle altogether.
They tried to do cel shade with aonic shuffle.And it looked kinda good
I'm a little surprised you didn't say anything about the texture mapping on the characters' "fur". Like sometimes, the blue on Sonic has these streaks that I guess(?) is supposed to stand in for actual quills, but if so it blends /too much/ into the overall shape of his spikes. Movie Sonic makes that work by rendering the individual quills, but that's easy on a Hollywood budget.
I know some renders that makes Sonic's blue look...so weird and off.
Sorta reminds me how although I like and approve it Sonic's in level looks in Sonic Rush and the DS port of Sonic Colors (I own the Wii version also, and am of the opinion that both ports have some of the most stunning graphics on the DS or the Wii). I have no clue why, but an off kilter mix of typical game Sonic royal blue, and Sonic X navy blue factor into Sonic's Rush Adventure appearance. I've only played Rush Adventure a few times via renting it from the now defunct chain, Family Video (more or less the Southeast Iowa/Northwest Illinois border equivalent of Blockbuster) yet I remember having thought: Sonic blue is supposed to be closer in shading to anime water, or royal blue than navy blue or VCR blue screen blue.
@@ethancroll8896 Yeah.Some renders of Sonic I found or even some verson of Sonic and sega all stars racing also has the navy blue.
Tell that to Ratchet and Clank since the nexus saga or even f(u)cking STARFOX ADVENTURES FOR THE NINTENDO GAMECUBE.
Crash Bandicoot remakes with more of a furry texture approach.
And yeah those games run on Switch stop excusing Sega's laziness blaming Nintendo for their mistakes.
They should make the renders fit better with the adventure art style and experiment more with the in game model with things like cell shading
I miss the adventure style. I felt like it was the coolest.
Someone did a reanimated video of Heroes cutscenes with the Modern Sonic model and it looks very expressive and amazing.
No I prefer modern sonic model than adventure model
THANK YOU! For years I thought I was crazy for thinking Modern Knuckles looks weird, yet never being able to quite put my finger on why. I was introduced to this character through the Classic sprites and Sonic X and loved his design there, yet I always thought he looked really boring in the Modern art style.
The problem with Sonic's model may be that Mario, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Crash, etc. have been relatively close to the artwork in recent years, but the difference from the design is drastic.
Bro. I get it. But it’s okay you don’t have to apologize for exercising your observational skills. Picking niche topics like this and diving deep with it also really makes you appreciate the little details in all sorts of media. Never apologize for that❤️ great video keep it up fr
Large agree !
I think the big hands and head situation needs to be addressed by SEGA really soon. I think SEGA needs to give a slight overall update to the artstyle to make them easier to animate. Both Boom and Movie sonic understandably found the, hard to animate and even sonic prime. Literally any iteration of the character in a animated form has had to shrink it down. Forces gave sonic slightly smaller arms and frontiers used that to give us better animated cutscenes that don’t feel so stiff. I think subtle changes like that is what we need for fluid cutscene animation something the franchise has struggled with for a long time now. I honestly think Sonic’s Design in 06’s CGI cutscenes is the perfect design for him to be animated well.
Exactly ! They need to adjust the character proportions and anatomy a little.
Are the heads really a problem? I mean they look as big as they need to be, the hands tho
@@lordx7013 nah when it’s so big like that alongside the hands it’s hard to make it have snappy movements.
@@thabreez456 they aren't that big, it's the hands, THEY look janky af, the heads were always as big as that, take a look at older models
This is why the 2d cover art is superior i still miss them because they APPEAL to the audience
I always prefered the 2d artwork for sonic and mario compared to the generic 3d models that lack emotion and are very generic to appeal to the wide kid audience for store merchandise.
@@justinarzola4584yes
These renders have never bothered me before but now that you've pointed it out my thoughts are: oh shit you're right.
I think the biggest thing about Sonic in modern renders at least, is the emphasis on his mouth and having his mouth open too much. If you cut the 3D mouth and just drew a cartoony one on his muzzle instead, it would already improve the renders tenfold.
Very sad we don’t get 2D art with Sonic as much. Ironic cause he looks best in 2D.
I think what they should do is tweek the designs just a little bit, use better lighting, incorporate better posings, and make them more expressive. I feel as though Sonic Prime has given us a good idea of how pretty and expressive Sonic and his friends could look.
Btw I totally agree with you on Knuckles. I think if Sega were to tweek the designs of Sonic's cast, Knuckles should be given special attention. He just doesn't give off the powerful echidna warrior vibe he should have. He honestly looks kinda wimpy to me.
What always bugged me about Modern Sonic's model is how he always has his mouth on the side of his face, obviously this is so that they can do the side smirk thing, but when he actually talks it's just one of the many things that make him look "off". Especially if you're looking at him from a front-on perspective.
Which is why I'm glad for things like Sonic Boom and Sonic Prime, they decided to make his mouth centered so that it looks at least a bit more organic and expressive.
Sonic Prime doesn't middle mouth, they use all the positions, like Sonic was suppose to, like Sonic DID do since Sonic 1 that stopped in SA1 because Dreamcast
I think it’s because we’ve been so used to the 2D renders since the start and only recently we’ve started seeing 3D renders in all their uncanniness.
There are still people who pronounce Mario wrong?
These feel like valid criticisms. There’s a lot of nuance that goes into charater design and 3d renders, so it’s hard to talk about it without sounding nitpicky.
I really miss when they experimented more with the art style. Battle and Riders had so much personality.
I love the Sonic riders series art style. It's so slick and cool.
Sonic Riders art style was kinda bad. The extra thick arms and legs and huge hands and shoes look terrible. You guys like to nitpick about the renders but praise the cgi in the games like the Unleashed opening. saying thats the best. Also praising the game cover arts. when the cgi and renders and all use the same Sonic model.
An example of good “universal” promotional art (for me) would be Scott Johnson’s Spider-Man. Now that’s ICONIC
I think one thing they could do to shift up the artstyle is go for sharper edges like the 2D art of Sonic Riders. The Sonic Colors render you showed did exactly that, and when he’s animated in 2D, Sonic’s always given sharper edges as well. Sonic in the beginning was designed as an antithesis of Mario, so while he goes more round and soft, make Sonic more rough and sharp. Could be some fun visual contrast.
I feel the same honestly, knuckles's render bothers me the most I mean they really massacred my boi with the ridiculous dreadlocks. 😭
On another note why did they shorten his muzzle over the years? I love his long snoz ( to me at least) it made him differentiate from Sonic, I feel it made him resemble an echidna and not just another hedgehog.
I'm glad us Sonic nerds can unite and discuss anything to do with this franchise, thank you Splash Dash. 🙏🏽
I 100% agree. Knuckles should look like a powerful echidna warrior who has the strength to disarm most of Sonic's attacks. Not a red Sonic the Hedgehog with a different haircut and massive hands.
@@GordanTheToad My ally, everything you said is exactly how I feel.👏🏽
@@GordanTheToad When Sonic and his friends were brought to 3d in the Adventure game, they were redesigned by Yuji Uekawa. Sadly the only modern Sonic games he was involved with are Unleashed and Lost World. The rest were done various artists.
YES! His snout is way too short in the modern art style. Has anyone at SEGA looked at any echidnas recently? Their snoots are long, boopable and blow bubbles. That's way more interesting than the default Sonic snout.
@@rainpooper7088 Definitely! The proportions of each character have become to vague now and they're loosing their individual designs that made them stand out from each over. : Hands too big , eyes too big and body too small.
Sega please just extend HIS SNOUT.
I hate the weird hotdog bun lips sonic has when hes smirking in some of the art you mentioned. Totally agree with your take
The giant head and hands problem you've pointed had also been pointed out by Dan Floyd in his Animation of Sonic Games video. Dan is an animator, used to work with PIXAR Canada for the Partysaurus Rex short.
He made the same criticism you made about how disproportionate the hands and head look in Modern Sonic. And why Boom Sonic have fixed up the problems.
Is it just my headphones or is this video incredibly quiet? My volumes maxxed out and its like im listening to mark record the video from another room
agreeed
How on earth did you not mention anything about the mouth and how it’s inconsistent for every character ?
Some characters have side mouth
Sonic ,Shadow ,Knuckles ,Rouge ,Espio ,Silver
While others have a middle mouth
Amy ,Tails ,Cream ,Blaze ,Charmy
I hate side mouth so much.
Side months have always been a series stable for Sonic. Guess you love Nintendo’s Sonic more in sports games
You mean Mario?
@@dreamsdeep1076 Just because it's a staple doesn't mean I like it.
It looks fine in 2D, but 3D should stick to middle mouth.
@@Gnidel hard disagree.
i do think the sonic cast need either a remodel or the tiniest redesign (mainly designing them so that they have smaller hands, feet, eyes ect..) They could also use that to fix some of the noticeable rigging limitations and give them a bit more character in their design.
also i think Amy needs a larger redesign shes so plain... but thats just me
at the end of the day it doesn't matter and i dont really care
Tails and amy definitely need redesigns.
Hey here's hoping the sequel to Frontiers happens after a little timeskip so we can actually get some improved designs ! Heck you could make the characters have slightly less kiddy proportions just with that excuse.
Modern Amy's dress has been the hardest design for me coming in late to the Sonic franchise.
So the return Classic Amy's outfit has been such a breath of fresh air!
Nah, Amy's design is fine
I always knew i just needed someone to speak out on the renders
*Someone brings up a small, general, inconciquential detail about Sonic in a positive light while acknowledging it's smallness*
Sonic fans: That's really cool.
*Someone brings up a small, general, inconciquential detail about Sonic in a negative light while acknowledging it's smallness*
Sonic fans: Burn it with fire!
Boy, do I just *love* it when people decide something is bad purely because it's negative.
I am surprised you did not talk about how some of 2D artworks tried to imitate the 3D renders
5:04 I CAN'T BREATHE LMAO
Great video on the sonic renders. I realized this maybe a year ago while thinking about the models and how bad they look but then thought about how they can look amazing in some renders and then like complete crap in others. I realized that it's really the horrible renders that make these model look worse than they really are. They still need to update the models tho.
I think he is being overreative.
I love TSR’s Renders, they look so clean and polished and the proportions look so good. I especially love Sonic’s silhouette and knuckles’ model.
Funny story so my school doesn't know much about sonic so I ask all my friends to choose which sonic model looks better a generic official modern render or a fan made render that looks like the sa2 art which looks great in my opinion, and every single one of my friends prefer the generic model they all said it's because it looks familiar that just goes to show how popular that model is to general audiences.
Modern Sonic has been very lifeless for awhile, feels more like a guy in a mascot suit than an actual character. They don't animate his eye shape at all, they animate him in mo-cap in alot of cutscenes, and his gloves and shoes are so big they can't be put anywhere.
The renders have been like this since 2010!
The renders are fine, by and large, but I definitely would wanna see them take a bit of some cues from the original Classic, Adventure, and even to an extent, Unleashed designs to really give Sonic a design that carries his charm as well as fixes some issues like how big his eyes are
I think the Marza model is already great on it's own when you look at Sonic Unleashed opening cutscenes or those Werehog specials, very cartoony movement and expressive. It's just Sega being corporate lazy.
@@islandboy9381 Oh yeah, definitely.
It's just the genuinely lack of proper expressions done with the face for such a cartoony design that feels lifeless.
Admittedly I am biased towards the Adventure era proportions, especially on the eyes, moreso than the Unleashed ones.
@@unnamed12346 When Sonic and his friends were brought to 3d in the Adventure game, they were redesigned by Yuji Uekawa. Sadly the only modern Sonic games he was involved with are Unleashed and Lost World. The rest were done various artists.
5:50 after noticing there was no divide between sonics eyes like knuckles has, i started hating how huge his eyes were because it looks like the majority of his head is some freakish cyclope abomination
I absolutely agree. Take the birthday render for example... Sonic has this weird, lifeless smile that curls inward in this awkward way. His smile is always scrunched up, or his mouth is very slightly open and wrinkled at the corners for some reason. I don't mind the SIZE of his eyes too much, it's just they keep getting more reflective over time and now they look very glassy and lifeless. It definitely doesn't help that his poses are always very stiff, and his spines are often facing away from view so you just see the front of his head... and in that regard it doesn't help that his spines have gotten shorter and very stiff, so not being able to see them just makes him look kind of weird. Forces looked like it had some neat ideas but still made Sonic have huge mitts and feet, but Frontiers looks like it reigned it in a little bit and they did a way better job with posing the character and making him seem ALIVE. Overall I feel like the current renders tend to feel very lifeless and soulless and kind of devoid of style. The "style" they're going for always seems like some offshot of a Disney character, it feels very "default" and it feels like it lacks an identity.
Well think about it, the modern designs of Sonic and friends WERE inspired by Disney and even Looney Tunes characters, so to me they are acceptable.
1:31 Ah yes, Super Merry-o...
I will always love the current Sonic models, but I can agree that sometimes they look goofy. I just kinda like the way they look, with them having that Pixar CGI look to 'em, specifically in pre-rendered cutscenes and trailers with how cool they look in action. IDK, it's just a preferenece, and it most likely has to do with the fact that my first exposure to Sonic was the Generations CGI Opening, which has arguably the same look.
Also, why is the video so quiet-
Not an over reaction at all. While sonic is a product at the end of the day he is an expression of art as well. And all of your points here are very valid
Glad I'm not the only one bothered by Knuckles' current model.
SEGA had made the best Knuckles model for M&S 2006 and never used it again.
Ball sack
Bro complained about sonic fans complaining and then made a whole RUclips video about why sonic renders look bad 💀
i’d bet the reason the Superstars renders for the side characters (specifically Knuckles) look so good is because they were forced to create a brand new render because one of classic Knuckles didn’t exist yet, meanwhile they’re reusing the same ones for Classic and Modern Sonic from over 10 years ago
*Sonic R Knuckles intensifies*
Honestly, as much as people hate Sonic 2006 for obvious reasons, I find the edgier designs very charming (well... not so much in game). 06 was my first exposure to modern sonic as a child, and yes while nostalgia probably plays a big part in it, those depictions of sonic in the artwork, in the cutscenes, and the loading screen really stuck with me. I think it does in fact have to do with the personality in his poses and expression. They really felt like they matched the character. Although to this day, I still have no clue what they were thinking with that eggman redesign.
Yeah, I think one of the things that really still feels off to me in Frontiers is the fact that you have this serious storyline, huge boss battles with metalcore music blaring, but all the character designs look straight out of Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. They're missing that edge from Adventure-'06, and it makes things feel...weird.
3:58 for me, Prime Sonic is the best render till now. It has all the life that the current promotional renders do not have. Also Movie Sonic. like pls
Honestly so relieved the new Sonic Superstar game has new renders that look good and a breath of fresh air. But I do hope they give Modern Sonic new renders that actually look good and full of life with detail like with Nintendo and Mario Odyssey. So glad I’m not the only one who thinks this. The 06 and Unleashed cinematic cutscene renders are amazing and I’d love to see their own twist on something like that.
3D Knuckles staring at us is scary
*Oh No!*
One thing in particular that always irks me is their mouths. Their mouths are so weird and lumpy, it's like they're all suffering from the mumps. It looks especially bad when characters are doing a closed mouth smirk, the sides of their mouths just look so chunky and they don't fit with how their muzzle shape looks. Amy always gets it the worst. She always ends up looking like she's holding a pair of marbles in the sides of her mouth.
One of my BIGGEST nitpicks, one i have seen absolutely nobody point out, is how the white shine in Sonic's irises is coming from the BOTTOM of his pupil. This implies that the light sources are always coming from BELOW Sonic's eye level, and it always looked terrible to me. Sonic Prime fixed this, and it strangely looks infinitely better because it's more in-line with other cartoony character depictions. This problem wasn't something they started doing until Unleashed, so certain nuances like this have added up over the last 10 years to give us such a bland and offputting design for all the Sonic characters' renders.
I think the reason why no one complains is because literally everyone ignores that shit when doing fan art, even literal children drawing in MSP place the highlight at the top because even they instinctively know that's where it belongs. This isn't even a weird stylistic choice thing like with Mario (Mario's standard 2D art positions eye highlights inside or outside of the pupil depending on whether the character is male or female), it's just outright wrong, especially in 3D where you can see the effects of the light source extremely accurately everywhere else. In art school, this would definitely get you marked down, but I do get why no one on the internet actively takes issue with it.
What I would do to make sonic better:
Make the head, hands and shoes smaller.
Add necks and clothing for male characters.
Stop being a age 4+ franchise and become a age 13+ franchise, make a seperate sub-franchise for classic sonic, turn modern sonic into adventure sonic, take more shonen influence from dragon ball and JoJo.
You know,I feel like the Kirby franchise did right for the renders on the Characters by making them unique looking in each different game without making them feel generic
Kids very much can tell the difference, its just that they arent old enough or experienced enough to know how to express it.
I think the poses and the shading are mostly the main issue, the shading specially is something that I see tends to ruin a lot of 3D models in general, not only Sonic, at least Mario has started to fix that problem nowadays, "oh but now it looks so corporate" your mom looks corporate, the renders are objectively prettier, so I think Sega should also try, the Sonic Colors remaster is clearly the right direction so far
Oh god, Sonic really does need a flat face, he looks too goofy in close up shots nowadays
Yeah, I agree like renders from TSR & Frontiers are probably in my eyes the best renders
But yes Sonic renders do need improvement to fully show the Character at its Prime
Sonic Prime?
Sonic and the gang looked their absolute BEST with the Boom redesign.
They pose better, they’re expressive as hell. And they have better silhouettes.
I think another part of the issue (in my opinion, tho this is a common one) is that the character's arms weren't intended to bend realistically at the elbow like they do now- at least not all the time. They were more curved to give an almost rubberhose animation era splash of class to otherwise very edgy modern designs, which paired well with their proportions and white glove motifs. Granted I do think his proportions have improved, but if you're gonna keep the big hands then the arms should be bendy, not angular. It makes it more stylistic and dynamic even during static poses. But if you *must* keep the elbow bend, then make their hands and feet smaller to compensate. Like the inconsistencies in the models themselves are basically a microcosm of the franchise now- inconsistent. But given how well Frontiers and the Sonic movies have done and Ian Flynn and Tyson Hesse being involved and fans themselves, I'm hoping this is the prelude to a comeback.
I don't know why they modelized Sonic to makes him stiff like a straw and make him walk like he's entirely leg/arm casted. I don't understand.
2000's Sonic don't have this problem indeed.
6:17 that's funny because Spongebob and Knuckles have the same VA in French
I honestly love the designs in Sonic Prime. They took the standard modern models, and added so much flare to them. Sonic’s eyes were made a little smaller and flatter, he has a way better shade of blue now, and every character has fur detailing. The Amy design from Sonic Prime is my new favorite design for Amy. I feel like Sonic Prime added some flare to the older models, and their so expressive in that show. Overall, Sonic Prime has made the modern designs WAY BETTER
I think SEGA really just needs to realize that it's okay to redesign characters.
(I don't mean drastically, btw.)
If you look at Mario, he has redesigns like every 3 or 4 years, it's crazy. And they're not massive redesigns, but you can still notice a lot of features in renders and games that was altered. And sometimes it's not even consistent across games. If you look at Odyssey's Mario and compare it to Mario Strikers Battle League's Mario-- they're not the same.
And now with Super Mario Wonder, and the Super Mario RPG remake, we're seeing pretty large stylistic changes that adapt the character to look more appealing in different scenarios. And if you compare the in-game Wonder Mario to the Mario in Wonder's key-art, you'll see a huge difference. And it's because the key-art uses some of the current models they use for promotional renders, probably for consistency's sake. It's funny because Yoshi's design is drastically altered in-game, yet his promo render looks the same as always.
And Yoshi really is the key here. It can be hard to change a design that is so cemented and recognizable-- but sometimes you have to! And you know what? Most people won't notice! I'm willing to bet most of the people reading this have no idea that Donkey Kong got a redesign in 2015, and that Mario Kart 8's DK model is outdated because of it.
I know my main problem is less with the model and more with how Sonic is posed and animated. They look like mascot costumes, but with altered models, that wouldn't be as big of a problem. My biggest problem is actually Sonic's mouth, and how it's animated. They use constant side-mouth in games like Frontiers and it looks horrible. Sonic should be able to use center-mouth in a lot of situations, and only use side-mouth when it fits.
I think Mario's 2009's renders are still used on merchandise (like lunchboxes and party sets).
Mario renders are better than Sonic’s.
@@traviscunningham7062 To everyone except mario fans. I still dont know whats wrong with the one theyve used in stores for 15 years. If it aint broke, dont fix it
@@theinktician When people bring up Mario renders, they're typically mentioning the stock renders that were made around the GameCube and Wii eras that sometimes still get used to this day, which are obviously outdated in terms of texturing, lighting, the works. But I don't think I've seen people legitimately complain about it, more so meme on it. Hell, Nintendo actually remade some of them with their newer models.
@@traviscunningham7062 When Sonic and his friends were brought to 3d in the Adventure games, they were redesigned by Yuji Uekawa. Sadly the only modern Sonic games he was involved with are Unleashed and Lost World. The rest were done various artists.
These renders were the thing I remember most out of early and mid 2010s Sonic.
They were everywhere. You couldn’t escape them.
Yeah, I remember when I first became a big Sonic fan around 2014, and these renders of Sonic and his friends were the first thing I saw the most.
1:50 get the bag king 👑
with most of the renders with the hedgehogs, when they had their mouths closed, it always had a weird looking shape to it, like an over bite or with like that lol
It's probably because they've been using it so much that it just becomes boring
everytime when I see Classic Sonic's design, it looks like he's saying: "hey, I'm Sonic, and I'm your friend!"
but when I see this Sonic design.... it looks like: "PLEASE GIVE ME MONEY!"
I unironically think scarf sonic is one of the better 3d designs. It clearly defines a neckline and works to establish his speed when taking a render.
@SplashDash_ or LS mark, 3:19 Sonic was redefined in Sonic and The Secret Rings. Long before unleashed
I think that Sonic and friends mostly need more personality in there posing and movements [maybe slightly smaller eyes and hands tho]
Hi, I'm a 3D artist, and I think Sonic should be NPR instead of PBR. Give him some toon shading and a nice outline, like in Sonic Shuffle or Sonic Rush. That's the main issue in my opinion. Realism isn't always a good choice, especially for cartoony characters. The issue was not always as visible in older games/renders due to the lack of tech when it came to making realistic scenes.
With NPR and/or 2D renders, Sonic wouldn't look as bad even with extremely generic poses.
Then again, this is the downside of relying on stock renders for merch and promotional material. You end up making your brand feel alot more homogenized.(Doesn't help that it seems to be compounded by the reliance on Green Hill zone.)
I don't believe that.
@@benmalsky9834 When Sonic and his friends were brought to 3d in the Adventure game, they were redesigned by Yuji Uekawa. Sadly the only modern Sonic games he was involved with are Unleashed and Lost World. The rest were done various artists.
the most replayed bit was straight after the sponsor
I was literally only saying recently how the Amy render in the twitter takeover looks terrible
Nonono this is important and you should say it ! We should be discussing the art direction and character designs, because thats literally WHAT YOU SEE when you look at anything from the franchise ! They should have appeal ! Look cool and pretty ! Being recognizeable just isnt enough.
Tbh in my opinion thats why i always liked how the younger sonic looked back in the older games ans now with orgins and superstars makes me go like he looks soo good i dont get why they decided to go with the sonic we have not when the other one looks so much better
In my opinion Modern Sonic character renders' biggest issue is the mouth, more specifically the lips. I dislike Amy's frontal mouth too.
They should just get Yuji Uekawa, Tracy Yardley or Patrick Spaziante to do promotional art.
Don't forget Yui Karasuno who does fantastic art for the Japanese Sonic twitter that the American one won't post for some reason, given they're too focused on lame memes, but I would just get her and Uekawa to do the art.
they also fail to use any other color of light than flourescent white in the renders you're talking about, which makes them look as if they were photographed in a hospital
I personally, love seeing you complain. You have very interesting points and its very fun to listen to you discuss your thoughts on a topic while thinking about my own on that same topic.
Complaining is an art shunned by toxic positivity.
Promotional material could've stayed as the Uwekawa style and not only would it look better, it'd be a staple of Sonic's design.
video is oddly quiet