House of the Dragon | Episode 9 Spoiler Discussion
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2022
- Visit fightcamp.com/nerdsoup to learn more about the biggest boxing community in the world!
Use promo code NERDSOUP for 20% off sitewide at bit.ly/smilebrilliant_nerdsoup &
Subscribe to our podcast channel here: / @thenerdsouppodcast1633
FOLLOW US ON TWITTER, INSTAGRAM & FACEBOOK!
TWITTER! - NerdSoup
Aaron Twitter: @nerdsoupmonkey
Beau Twitter: @beausoup
Teddy Twitter: @TeddyNerdSoup
Nash Twitter: @AnthonyJQNash
Marissa Twitter: @purplegirlns
INSTAGRAM - nerdsoup
FACEBOOK! - NerdSoup
Visit our Patreon page here - patreon.com/nerdsoup
He got so excited to recite the “cake and eat it too” idiom 😂😂😂
To all the people that want cake, but don't want to eat it at any point. God have mercy on your brain.
Wish it would get said every episode
Not going to lie, that expression confused me for decades until Bo's clarification last episode. I'm in my mid-30s now...
but he broke my brain when he said "what if i just have a slice?"
@@fsmfsm9941 your brain is very healthy. I'm proud of you!!
I’m not ready for these spoiler discussions to be over😖
They might do a fun "oh hey this was referenced in season blah blah blah" after it all wraps up
@@jamesflowers1295 Same. Between the show and all the discussion podcasts I get about 8 hrs a week of entertainment out of it. I expect it’ll be quite a while before season 2 is out which really sucks.
I’m looping back on the old GoT reviews
@@johansmallberries9874 me too but some of the old videos are too short
“This guy heard cheers and thinks he’s like king…. I mean he is king I guess” 😂 Teddy is the best
“Yeah, the cake analogy somehow got lost” 😂 You know the funny thing is, my whole life I always questioned that saying. Who wants a cake but doesn’t eat it? I never thought about how once you eat it you no longer have it. So you blew my mind last week too.
Yeah the "have" is being able to look at it. If you eat it, you can't look at it anymore
it's phrased in such a bizarre manner. Especially since "have" is basically a synonym for eat now: "I had steak for dinner".
@@killapositionz2 and people don't normally eat the entire cake in one sitting.
@@EzraFieldsofStrawberry great point as well.
in Serbian the analogy we use is "you can't have a lamb and money too" and I could never understand why not but just last year I realized that it means you get the money only if you sell a lamb so you can't have both lol
A woman blew up kings landing. Another woman burned kings landing to the ground. A woman killed thousands of small folk with her dragon. Women have committed some of the the most evil acts on this verse.
Sshh no it's 'the patriarchy'.
Here to see how much Teddy learns this week.
Tyland Lannister is the one on the small council as master of coin, his twin Jason is ruling Casterly Rock. We haven’t seen Jason since Rhaenyra’s wedding.
Beesbury is master of coin, Tyland is master of ships. One of the reasons he was angry at the small council is because they were going over his head and moving funds around without consulting him.
@@barbara832001 yeah my bad. he becomes master of coin within the episode with beesbury dead so I was only half wrong lol
@@kylehousename5256 Yeah, I guess that's one way to get the job
I have not seen anyone mention when Otto asked Larys about how much time he had been spending with Alicent. Larys says there is no need for it to not benefit you. Then Otto meets with Mysaria, clearly is pissed about her threats. Next thing we know Larys is telling Alicent about Mysaria and her spy network and Alicent "okays" killing her. I think the suggestion came from Otto possibly. Seems like there is more to it though. Thoughts?
I can’t help but think Otto had to also pay Larys his “price”.
100
@@johansmallberries9874 showed Larys his old Otto toenails
Watch the alt swift x breakdown. He talks about that scene and Larys’ possible intentions etc.
@@mikethemulletman8419 Thank you!
The ending actually makes more sense to me the more I think about it, unlike anything in season 8.
Yes! 👍
Hibbard from The Hollywood Reporter interviewed Sarah Hess and the production team at House of the Dragon, and asked them specifically why Rhaenys didn't just blast "the Greens" with dragon fire after busting through the floor at the end of episode 9, briefly mentioning that “she murders a bunch of civilians by busting out anyway,” and the reporter was met with a simple exclamation from Hess: “It’s Game of Thrones - civilians don’t count!”
Pressed further by Hibberd as to why Rhaenys didn’t just “pull the ‘Dracarys!’ trigger and save countless lives - possibly including her own - by preventing war? Why just turn around and fly away?”, the writer explained, “I think she just can’t do it.”
"I also feel like that moment, she looks Alicent in the eye and Alicent walks in front of her kid to shield him,” said Hess. “It’s one mother to another. Rhaenys is angry, but in her previous scene with Alicent, she respected her, even if she doesn’t agree with her. So she’s not going to kill another woman like that.”
“It’s not her war,” she continued. ” The fight is between these two sides and she’s kind of not in it. She doesn’t feel like she’s the one to come in and do that. But you’re right. If she had just incinerated everybody, it’s game over, Rhaenyra wins and we’re done here. But the cost is huge.”
This is the best explanation I've seen, so far. Especially considering what sense I got from the characters within the context of the episode, as well.
Rhaenys hadn't declared for one side or the other, having issues equally with each, in turn, personally. Whether it be Rhaenyra with whom Rhaenys, (and probably Lord Corlys as well,) hold some blame for the supposed death of their son. (Not to mention Rhaenyra's uncle/husband Daemon for the death of their daughter and Vaemond Valeryon, to some measurable degree.)
And on the other hand Queen Alicent, who had chosen to allow Rhaenys to be locked up in her quarters in the Red Keep, whilst the Greens began their efforts to supplant Rhaenyra.
Rhaenys was already apprehensive to take sides even when her husband was indisposed, and Vaemond was attempting to supplant his grandchildren as the hier to Driftmark.
Of course she's going to get her dragon and herself out of King's Landing, at the expense of however many innocent civilians if necessary.
But taking sides, without the approval of her husband in particular, and killing everyone up on that dais in the dragon pit wasn't something she was willing to do.
Because it wasn't her war to begin with.
She was just a third party in the conflict between the Greens and Blacks.
Someone who's husband could wake up at any moment who's seat she was merely holding.
Driftmark, (the Velaryons,) not having chosen a side, without either Corlys' say or his death, wasn't hers to give, to either Alicent or Rhaenyra.
That's why she doesn't make any decisive moves until after Corlys wakes up and declares allegiance for one side or the other.
(I thought this was clear, of course she wouldn't say; "Dracarys!" lol it wasn't her war to begin, or end. She was simply getting herself and her dragon out of captivity, and that's it. But, judging by the amount of whining and complaining I've been seeing, so far, apparently not!)
✌️
@@twstf8905 well effing said!!!!!!!
@@twstf8905I don't care that she didn't kill the greens, I just think it's incredibly tone deaf by the writers to portray her casually murdering at least a few dozen, maybe a hundred people as some kind of heroic moment, it's just super weird. Yeah, yeah "peasants don't count", but you don't create sympathetic characters that just straight up murder completely innocent people for no reason.
@@twstf8905 Then why did it come across as the only reason she didn't kill the usurpers was their magical green plot armour.
@@Lukesmithbrfc you should read their whole post before replying something that completely disregards the entire purpose of the OP. 😂
I get the impression Alicent’s character, we’ll watch her over time evolve into a more Cerci-type - as the Game of Thrones she plays inevitably demands you to die or adapt, by any means necessary. I think she will inevitability turn her into her worst self.
they're very different characters in setting, as a book reader that's all I'll say
Also they were already planning to get rid of Beesbury they already moved the Crowns treasury without the Master of Coin i.e. Beesbury knowing a thing. They were ready to take the old man out and just looking for a reason to.
To y’all’s comments on Alicent, (around minute 6-8) I agree with Aaron and want to add that this character to me, makes sense in her lack of true cruelty and not being full on malicious yet as y’all were discussing. As someone who grew up in a very religious small area that utilized older attitudes in society towards women, I’ve met many an Alicent. Women who are in those roles or worlds are built by their trying to survive and thrive under their conditions. (A window for their prison cell as Rheaneeys puts it) in scenarios like that when a person feels like you have no one as a true ally, to survive, you have the rules (religion of the 7 pointed star) at least that’s clear and not changing, and if you follow those to a t, no one can “harm” you there is a layer of protection in a sense and that rule following also gives a sense of superiority which is a perk when you feel you have not a lot of control over your life. (Ex: A’s clear distain to R for her strong boys, infidelity when she had to marry an old man) to me, she clings to her faith, her “righteousness” and more than likely thinks she’s a good person most of the time and still wants to be one in some sense however she may warp that definition of the word to work for her but still. She doesn’t want to taint that piece of her, but still play the game, because as she sees it, she has no choice in playing the game as she has been in it, since she was married to King V as a teen. She can’t exactly leave now or really at any point once that’s happened really can she? Also it’s been instilled in her by her father that Rheanerya will hurt her and her kids when given the chance. I don’t think she’ll ever be a Cersei, she’s not a true narcissist, I think she is ready to snap under the strain of the role like Cersei, but she’s built up an idea of herself (ex: mentioning she’s a mom often) and acts accordingly from that, more so than her true wants at this time. She’s going to be a very interesting character with lots of internal struggles and with the show showing how her ambition is tied to others (Aegon/Otto) that shows her own lack of self value which I think we will see alter as the show continues and I expect to see moving forward, a lot of A’s character doing bad things and feeling guilty or showing hints of it later on, but still doing them. Eventually I expect she won’t feel guilty anymore and come fully into her own. She herself as a contender and then be the true main opponent to Rheanerya. I won’t cheer her on, but I can’t help but feel bad for her a little bit. She’s in a prison of her own making but also not.
Teddy has become a podcast treasure. Not realizing what was happening last week!!! Doubles down on this one.
My friend says the saying ought to be "You can't eat your cake and have it, too." It makes more sense that way.
The term "peasant" technically refers only the rural smallfolk.
Serfs are those peasants who are not chattel slaves but cannot legally leave their lands and must perform significant labor for their landlord as rent in order to be allowed to keep the rest of their crops.
The smallfolk of a city like King's Landing are neither peasants nor serfs. Those who live in walled towns or cities are properly called Burgers
The discussion you had around the Stan culture appearing is incredibly spot on, especially given the recent reaction towards the episode 10 leak. In the nicest possible way - I can’t wait for those fans to leave
Teddy’s inability to see foreshadowing is so amazing to me
I think I was rooting for the wrong guy and he was on the channel the whole time
Bring back that purple girl she had more insight
The reason Otto wanted Aegon is because at that time, there was no king making Otto in control. Queen Alicent was now a dowager Queen and no longer had authority to command the small council. Otto did. Alicent wanted Aegon in order to get him crowned asap so she could influence him as his Mother.
Had Otto gotten him first, his coronation may have been put off for months while Otto ran Kings Landing and the 7 Kingdoms. (Or was it still 6 at that time?)
It was the six kingdoms at the time as Dorne had not yet been quelled.
@@noneofyourbeeswax01 They used the number 7 for symbolic religious reasons. The number of kingdoms is arguably more than that.
1 The North
2 The Mountains and the Vale
3 The Westerlands
4 The Reach
5 The Stormlands
6 The Iron Islands
7 The Riverlands: these not generally counted as a kingdom, although it had been united as a kingdom before, as it was under Ironborn control when Aegon landed. Their line of the last non-Ironborn kings over this region are dead, so Aegon but a formerly minor lord who supported him over House Hoare in charge.
8 The Crownlands: This region includes islands in the Narrow Sea (such as Dragonstone, Driftmark, and Claw Isle, all ruled by Valyrian families) plus lands that had been contested between the Stormlands and the Riverlands (mostly under Ironborn control) and some lands formerly claimed by House Celtigar which Aegon freed from the lesser Valyrian house and promised would have no overlords but the king himself as they were among his earliest supporters
9 Dorne: This principality resisted conquest under Aegon, mostly by running away from any major fights and relying on guerilla tactics. Aegon and his heirs still style themselves as kings of the Rhoynar and claim to rule Dorne, but no one there takes it seriously. The Targaryens sometimes managed to take over Dorne briefly but are always forced to retreat, wasting a lot of resources and making no lasting gains. They only really join the rest of the realm through peaceful marriage alliance a few generations in the future from the HotD.
“The Gods have yet to make a man without the desire to have his cake and eat it too, your grace.” -Sir Otto Hightower 🍰
What is crazy is Aegon’s children would have a better claim to the throne than one eye.
Aaron getting ready to poke fun at Ted for the idiom Beau just taught him last review on this was absolutely hilarious.
Things I liked from this season from the changes.
Pros- Alicent/Rhaenrya relationship, Viserys as a tragic Shakespearean character, making Aemond softer because he was such a scumbag in Fire & Blood with no likability at all, Aegon characterization, Black Velaryons.
Cons- I dislike Larys”Clubfoot” Strong characterization this past episode in the books he perhaps mysterious man in Fire & Blood allied with the greens but he has a foot( no pun intended) with blacks, his motivations for the greens being a foot fetish over Alicent I find just dumb. Plus I dislike why he isn’t on small council like he is in the books as master of whispers. We really don’t get a justification of why he killed his father and brother and I wasn’t big fan of him being the one responsible without an explanation. If it was power pure and simple I understand because in the books almost immediately he becomes new Lord of Harrenhal and gets a seat on small council.
Another con I dislike Rhaenys not burning them. In the books she is not present at King Landing, I understand why having her there creates drama but her bursting out killing hundreds of people and then refuse to literally ending a war before it stops against people she knows will kill her and her family. In the books Aegon is crowned and his dragon Sunfrye is present because he is in the Dragonpit. If the reason Rhaenys didn’t burn them because she didn’t wanna fight Sunfyre I understand because he a deterrent or if she simply flown through the side because there has to be another exit for the dragons as they are dragons who fly in and out constantly on their violation.
I’m afraid they don’t want Alicent to be tooo villainous which as someone who loves good villains and admired how cunning Alicent was in books in her pursuit of power for her sons. I dislike the recoil her and Rhaenrya had at the dinner. If after Viserys left her and Rhaenrya immediately drop a facade to placate Viserys was something I prefer. I miss the sheer hatred Rhaenrya and Alicent had for each other in books. You can still have Alicent race to get to Aegon before her father so she can get him to agree to spare Rhaenrya but I like it being more grounded in Alicent doing more as a practical matter because blacks do possess more dragons than they do and fears an assassination attempt would provoke an immediate attack.
Final Con I dislike Lord Commander not being on small council. The Lord Commander is very much a political position with huge amounts of power and they often played the game too. Ser Criston Cole is called “Kingmaker” because many blame him for playing the game. I also dislike his characterization in show making him just a thug. Martin had Kingmaker as a clear call to Jaime Lannister the Kingslayer who is presented as a vile man in first book but later on more complexity in his actions. I had hoped we got a more nuanced portrayal of Ser Criston “The Kingmaker” Cole and what spurned him to switch sides from blacks to greens but he feels like a thug that could be replaced with any skilled swordsman.
Hibbard from The Hollywood Reporter interviewed Sarah Hess and the production team at House of the Dragon, and asked them specifically why Rhaenys didn't just blast "the Greens" with dragon fire after busting through the floor at the end of episode 9, briefly mentioning that “she murders a bunch of civilians by busting out anyway,” and the reporter was met with a simple exclamation from Hess: “It’s Game of Thrones - civilians don’t count!”
Pressed further by Hibberd as to why Rhaenys didn’t just “pull the ‘Dracarys!’ trigger and save countless lives - possibly including her own - by preventing war? Why just turn around and fly away?”, the writer explained, “I think she just can’t do it.”
"I also feel like that moment, she looks Alicent in the eye and Alicent walks in front of her kid to shield him,” said Hess. “It’s one mother to another. Rhaenys is angry, but in her previous scene with Alicent, she respected her, even if she doesn’t agree with her. So she’s not going to kill another woman like that.”
“It’s not her war,” she continued. ” The fight is between these two sides and she’s kind of not in it. She doesn’t feel like she’s the one to come in and do that. But you’re right. If she had just incinerated everybody, it’s game over, Rhaenyra wins and we’re done here. But the cost is huge.”
This is the best explanation I've seen, so far. Especially considering what sense I got from the characters within the context of the episode, as well.
Rhaenys hadn't declared for one side or the other, having issues equally with each, in turn, personally. Whether it be Rhaenyra with whom Rhaenys, (and probably Lord Corlys as well,) hold some blame for the supposed death of their son. (Not to mention Rhaenyra's uncle/husband Daemon for the death of their daughter and Vaemond Valeryon, to some measurable degree.)
And on the other hand Queen Alicent, who had chosen to allow Rhaenys to be locked up in her quarters in the Red Keep, whilst the Greens began their efforts to supplant Rhaenyra.
Rhaenys was already apprehensive to take sides even when her husband was indisposed, and Vaemond was attempting to supplant his grandchildren as the hier to Driftmark.
Of course she's going to get her dragon and herself out of King's Landing, at the expense of however many innocent civilians if necessary.
But taking sides, without the approval of her husband in particular, and killing everyone up on that dais in the dragon pit wasn't something she was willing to do.
Because it wasn't her war to begin with.
She was just a third party in the conflict between the Greens and Blacks.
Someone who's husband could wake up at any moment who's seat she was merely holding.
Driftmark, (the Velaryons,) not having chosen a side, without either Corlys' say or his death, wasn't hers to give, to either Alicent or Rhaenyra.
That's why she doesn't make any decisive moves until after Corlys wakes up and declares allegiance for one side or the other.
(I thought this was clear, of course she wouldn't say; "Dracarys!" lol it wasn't her war to begin, or end. She was simply getting herself and her dragon out of captivity, and that's it. But, judging by the amount of whining and complaining I've been seeing, so far, apparently not!)
✌️
@@twstf8905 it's not her war? Huh her grandchildren are dragon riders right? And they are engaged to the future king that got his birthright stolen right? Her grandchildren are for sure gonna fight so if they die it's gonna be on their grandmother's hand. If you think any of those reasons you listed make sense you are a sheep.
But let's forget about her grandchildren and let's forget about the war. The fact is they locked her in a castle headed her hostage and if she wasn't going to bend a knee they were going to kill her. That alone is reason enough to fucking blast these fuckers to Tim buck two.
And let's talk about the civilians don't matter thing. You know I never really saw her character just willing being ok with mass murder. Then you expect me to believe that a person that ok with mass murder wouldn't be OK with killing people that threaten her own life and her grandkids. That is to much suspension of this disbelief. And that is why this scene sucks.
The more I watch it the more I think she only didn't Rhaenys doesn't kill her to return the courtesy for Alicent not killing her earlier when she had her imprisoned... Alicent could've just had her killed and didn't, Rhaenys returned the favor and left them alive.
Teddy was me watching Black Adam with comic book writers.
The sword crossing, the tapestry, proud Otto enjoying his life’s work, the veiled & somber Queen kissing his forehead, the Septons marking his forehead,.. "All Hail His Grace...King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men"...finally justice done to the proclamation of a new Absolute Monarch in GoT. I was blown away by the details in the coronation. It felt like watching Nicholas II being crowned in an Orthodox ceremony with all the hollow pomp & circumstance of a rotting system. It's what I'd always envisioned from a GoT coronation. Tom Glynn-Carney was terrific in bringing out Aegon's fear, hesitation, pride & euphoria all at once. I'm glad they kept the much despised Criston putting the Conqueror's crown on Aegon II's head. The Kingmaker is born! What the show's doing really well is the details, down to splitting the treasury or locking up servants. Usually the passionate debates, the treachery, the heartbreak are glossed over & we only see the regime change as "fait accompli". This bring to life the mechanism that historically goes behind a coup, which I assume is as emotionally taxing for the people seizing power. That's why I like agonized & conflicted Alicent more than her steadfast source counterpart. It feels more flesh & blood. She vacillates but her messianic fear for her children fates her to make that cursed gamble.
Great convo!
I'm about to go on stage but I've been waiting for you all week!
The same people when Daemon executes Vaemond for rightfully accusing Rhaenyra of bastardry & treason vs people when Criston executes Beesbury for wrongfully accusing Queen Alicent of regicide. This show is a case study in tribalism.
I loooove how u guys talked about the Stark's. My fav character in all lore is cregane stark. He will own everything
Great discussion 🤌🏽🤌🏽
crazy how Episode 10 leaked and we were able to watch it Friday night, 2 days before the official release. I cant wait until season 2 sucks we're gonna have too wait until like Spring/Summer 2024 SMH Lol AND thus begins The LONG NIGHT or in this case The LONG WAIT....
I still don’t know why people want that it’s 2 days not 2 years People who never lived through the Game hiatuses are going to be a mess now looking back I’m glad they prepared me a year and a half at the very least
@@dipsydoodle2728 because I’d it’s there, why not? We don’t have to watch it as a global society all at the same time. I watched it last night and I’m not sorry I did.
Those are some smooth ass ad transitions I didn’t even notice.
Helaena's seen this before in her visions. To her the Dragon Pit was just another spectacle. The horror and violence has already been in her nightmares both waking and dreaming. She has visions like the Targaryens who fled the Doom
Mysaria sounds like a Japanese person doing a Shae impression.
One of the funniest things about Rhaenys killing hundreds of small folk, is that Ryan Condal basically said that the small folk essentially don't matter.
Then you have Daemon taking Rhaenyra out for a night on the town, telling Rhaenyra that she needs to take the small folk into consideration, lmfao.
Setting things up nicely for the future
@@Sebanovic5 it does. In all honesty, Rhaenyra has every right to the Throne and the Greens just look like usurpers.
Then once it all goes down, Rhaenys, who is aligned with Rhaenyra, kills hundreds of small folk, that will look bad on Rhaenyra's side either way you slice it.
It might be the first step into Rhaenyra becoming known as Maegor with teets 🤔 with her just fully accepting a more Ruthless role after everything happens to her lol.
It was just funny how that came about lmao.
Rhaenys hasn't read Fire & Blood to know of horrors to come. So her pre-emptively nuking half her own family would've been OP. Having said that, the Rhaenys bit was to give audience a 'send home happy' moment which wasn't necessary. The coronation was fantastic in itself. But gawd forbid the ''bad guys' are on top in simply 1 single episode. Those who thought lowborns of KL have any obligation to support Rhaenyra are in for big disappointments. Aegon claims his birthright from popular King Jaehaerys' Great Council stating king's firstborn male son is next king. Viserys himself won it over Rhaenys like that. Best part of this was the politics, less dragons the better. Despairing mom version of alicent does highlight her humanity more than the colder iteration of the actual green council. A well needed adjustment imo but also a continuation of her very humane Harrenhall or knife scene mistake. They've constantly shown subtleties in her character which audience wilfully ignores since we're watching this as a team sport and gotta cheer team lovable manipulative dad. Her being more humanized shouldn't be an issue unless one wants the show to remain grotesquely tilted towards Black (Laenor death,Vaemond order,etc)
I kinda thought that the reason that she didn’t kill Allicent and the whole green council is because 1) She knows Allicent is trying for peace so maybe there’s a possibility, 2) she doesn’t want to be a kinslayer when the war she may know is coming hasn’t started yet, and 3) if she DOES torch the green council just after Aegon was crowned king, and Rheynera comes back and becomes queen it makes HER look like the usurper. That’s why Allicent made it a huge spectacle and made everyone watch so all of kings landing is a witness to Aegons crowning to legitimize him. Making any move against him and their council a dangerous one.
Good ad read boys, made me chuckle
The White Worm’s accent is kinda islander. Gives me calypso vibes from Pirates of the Caribbean
look forward to these every week! my thoughts on alicent and expectations that she was meant to be " the next cersei": i see this as an interpretation of what happened. we know the book is not a 100% reliable record of the history. the book is essentially comprised of hearsay and second/third-hand accounts. i can see alicent's actions being perceived a certain way while her true motivations remained unknown. even within fire and blood there are conflicting stories. i like this more nuanced interpretation of alicent.
Do you guys have a sports podcast? I'd listen to that too lol
My thoughts about Raenys are that if a war was going to break out, she wouldn't be the one to start the bloodshed. It wasn't her place to start a war in Rhaenyra's name.
Definitely love these guys personalities and I also love the NBA and NFL. Would be great if they started some kind of sports pod
@@Mason-dq7cf Third this.
The coup didn’t happen because of the prophecy. The prophecy is simply a gossamer’s thread slipping away into oblivion (and the knife will be lost too by the end of the series I’m pretty sure). But the prophecy did not change 20 years worth of motivations. It seemed that only Alicent grasped for straws in Viserys’ last words to find a moral justification for what she was always going to do. It’s understandable for someone who was in such a psychological pressure for so long. But her motivation was always a prophetic fear of her son’s safety. For others the prophecy was simply a pretext. Otto was always set on having his blood on the throne. Many if not most of the Lords were always set on having a male heir. The prophesy didn’t serve as a catalyst for the coup. The coup was always fated. The prophecy served as a self-deluding moral impetus for Alicent and a pretext for others. It very much fits the Fire & Blood Alicent trying to hide behind her self-righteousness.
Epiosde 6 and 7 showed Alicent was in over her head with the “plotting”, She easily fell into Larys' trap about the Hand. The “now they see you as you are” knife scene in Episode 7 was the perfect example of how Rhaenyra easily gaslighted her into losing composure and making her look bad despite it being Alicent who was had the moral high ground. She expressed her disdain for Rhaenyra openly while it was Rhaenyra who was more calculating and conniving, turning an accident into a "show trial". Her being outwitted in that sense was always the case, because she has a semblance of scruples which serves as her detriment. It is a continuous character progression, not a change.
For someone who’s read the books, what’s the thing from the book they refer too that’s won’t gel in the show now because of Raenys popping through the floor
the storming maybe? Tho can't see why this wouldn't be a reason for it rather than contradict it
Yo lol I’m trying to see too …but I really don’t wanna read that shit again lol…
I would google it but I don’t even know how to phrase that
that's what I'm wondering too, haven't heard any other channel bring this up...
Bro the finale 🎉🎉
Wow.. What a season of greatness
I live for those moments! 😂
54:06 We saw BOTH of them in the Hunting episode. Both were played by the same actor
What is the cake?? It's the story we agree to tell ourselves over and over till we forget that it's a lie.
If I never hear "at the end of the day..." ever again, it won't be too soon.
Even Rhaenys not wanting to leave her dragon doesn’t make sense. The dragon pit has pathways to get the dragons in and out so she doesn’t HAVE to go through the floor. She could’ve just left without anyone being none the wiser until after the coronation.
Would have been the better way to do it. But hey, no girlboss moment.
Maybe those pathways were closed?
@@omaralkharraz2410 Closed how?
Wow, you guys are quick.
No Spoilers here, but I watched episode 10, and it is not only amazing, but it presents a train of thought about this story that I never considered.
After 10 years of following it closely, I just never thought "what if" about this deal, that is related to the end of the season.
I am curious if any of you guys also feel this way after you see it.
Glad to hear and thx for not giving anything away. Can’t wait to see it tomorrow.
Definitely.
I think the reason people are hung up on the dragon scene is the fact that the show so far has gone out of it's way to portray the Blacks, excluding Daemon, as the pure good guys. It's honestly been a bit of a turn off for me these recent episodes.
Also gonna say what no one else will, Allicent is getting Larys' device at a steal. Dude can disappear high profile people and entire spy rings and all he's asking for is to look at some feet? I'd take that deal, I'd take that deal everytime.
Yeah they especially showed it at the end of this episode. The guys mentioned how the real power is dragons, but of course Sunfyre was supposed to be there during the coronation, and Aegon and Helaena rode Sunfyre and Dreamfyre over King's Landing at the end of the coronation. They also left out the 'Kingmaker' part, all so that Rhaenys could have her 'heroic' moment. To be honest I was fairly neutral but the showrunners clear Team Black bias is making Team Green.
As a woman watching this show, I don’t mind that they have made Alicent less evil (at least up to this point) than what others were expecting. I’ve seen time and time again where characters that are men on this show and GoT get a pass on what they do where the women characters do not. I’ve seen people blame Cersei for pushing Bran out the window even though it was Jamie that did it. I’ve seen people blame Catelyn for starting everything even though that was also Jamie since he (again) pushed Bran and crippled him (or really Littlefinger if you want to get technical). I’ve seen people say they think Ramsay is LESS evil than Sansa (like wtf?!). When Rhaenyra had potentially murdered Laenor, it was getting a lot more backlash than when Daemon murdered his wife (seriously Daemon gets a pass on absolutely everything). And I’ve noticed how people respect when Otto makes political moves, but call Alicent a bitch when she does the same thing. It’s quite frustrating, so if they made Alicent more sympathetic, maybe people will actually understand and I’m fine with that.
I do love how much a cunt Cersei is though. She’s truly a fantastic villain with so much complexity to her. And I truly believe in making women characters as evil as men characters, but there’s also a double standard with a big portion of the audience and sometimes it gets too loud for me.
I am not ready for tomorrow’s season finale , I know I’m going to cry, I’m aware of what is coming 🥺
I’ve already seen it and I assure you, you will 😢
@@lesliemisaacs 😩😩😩 I’m sure the things I don’t see coming are going to be just as heart wrenching , then the two year wait for more punishment. I love this world😂
I've seen it and it's amazing. Defs one of the better finales we've had in this universe
I feel like Misaria’s accent will get toned down over the course of the show like they did in GoT with some people little finger got more Irish, the Hound got more Scottish etc so fingers crossed we won’t have to deal with it next season
it is very odd to listen to and hard to understand
Man I'm carving up some pumpkins, thank you for some soup while I do it.
They both got destroyed by the cake 😭 epic
Ive heard the saying is actually "have your cake and eat it, too"
I always found the cake idiom confusing and poorly worded. When you use the verb “have” with food, it can also imply that you eat it (I have lunch, I have pasta for dinner, etc.), so I would get confused about what’s the difference between having your cake and eating your cake? The idiom SHOULD be “You can’t KEEP your cake and eat it too” 🤷♀️
"I live for those moments" 🤣
Haven’t read the book. Wonder how Criston would react when he comes to know about Larys’ foot fetish with Alicent. CC seems pretty pious about Alicent
The foot fetish thing isn't in the book. I guess the show made it up to make Lorys more 'creepy'.
Sunfyre should’ve risen up to protect the Greens. Could’ve just scared them off without a fight.
Absolutely Sunfyre should have been there, but they don't want to give the Greens any cool moments.
Episode 9 was great in what it's supposed to do, give the new monarch time to shine...who gave a top tier performance with his mood swings, establishing Aegon II as far less one dimensional than Joffrey. Finally a proper GoT crowning. Rhaenys isn't aware of the book. She can't imagine the length of depravity and slow escalation both sides will go to, to kill her own kin at this point. That's Freefolk brain gigachad logic. *Ned kills Jaime in throne room and there's no War of Five Kings. Tbf a fully Green ep without Rhaenys “good guy triumphal” pandering woulda been better. A Green heavy political intrigue focused ep, with lots of great visuals & ethical quandary. Gonna be a Microwave Attention Span Challenge for the “only here for Daemon making great value Patrick Bateman faces" crowd. I prefer moral dilemma Alicent over ruthless ambitious F&B council Alicent. Nuance of her has been lost on a viewership wanting her to fit the mold of a Disney evil queen. So this is a nudge in the right direction, that things are more grey from here. Her intro as an adult was her falling into Larys trap in harrenhal. So it's not a character change. Aegon & Alicent have been more compelling than the gas light goodie two shoes way Rhaenyra's been portrayed so far. If ur already blaming smallfolk for not supporting Slay Qween...hoo boy! do I got bad news! This is the copium ep. Folks seething watching the boy wear his crown.
54:08 we have seen both Lannister twins. He was at Price Aegon’s nameday, before they leave for the hunt, telling the king about the war in the step stones, and then they both walk in together for Rhaenyra’s wedding
Vaemond a boy can not sit the drift wood throne?
Alicante: I would put a boy on the iron throne.
Mushroom. The irony the irony!
What does happen later that doesnt make sense anymore because of the rhaenys scene? i read the book but i cant figure out what Beau means.
it's hard to put a leash on a dog once you put a crown on its head
This episode took a sharp dive into ‘Game of Thrones’ action with no payoff goofiness. As someone who has read the book and love the story I found myself thinking ‘wtf is happening/this is stupid’ way too much for a single episode. The Aegon chase and the Rhaenys coronation was totally whack and imo degrades events that are going to happen in the future.
What events?
@@lesliemisaacs I’m not going to throw out spoilers. Read the book and you will see, it’s really a good book, worth your time.
I'm loving Teddy's takes more and more lol.
Hibbard from The Hollywood Reporter interviewed Sarah Hess and the production team at House of the Dragon, and asked them specifically why Rhaenys didn't just blast "the Greens" with dragon fire after busting through the floor at the end of episode 9, briefly mentioning that “she murders a bunch of civilians by busting out anyway,” and the reporter was met with a simple exclamation from Hess: “It’s Game of Thrones - civilians don’t count!”
Pressed further by Hibberd as to why Rhaenys didn’t just “pull the ‘Dracarys!’ trigger and save countless lives - possibly including her own - by preventing war? Why just turn around and fly away?”, the writer explained, “I think she just can’t do it.”
"I also feel like that moment, she looks Alicent in the eye and Alicent walks in front of her kid to shield him,” said Hess. “It’s one mother to another. Rhaenys is angry, but in her previous scene with Alicent, she respected her, even if she doesn’t agree with her. So she’s not going to kill another woman like that.”
“It’s not her war,” she continued. ” The fight is between these two sides and she’s kind of not in it. She doesn’t feel like she’s the one to come in and do that. But you’re right. If she had just incinerated everybody, it’s game over, Rhaenyra wins and we’re done here. But the cost is huge.”
This is the best explanation I've seen, so far. Especially considering what sense I got from the characters within the context of the episode, as well.
Rhaenys hadn't declared for one side or the other, having issues equally with each, in turn, personally. Whether it be Rhaenyra with whom Rhaenys, (and probably Lord Corlys as well,) hold some blame for the supposed death of their son. (Not to mention Rhaenyra's uncle/husband Daemon for the death of their daughter and Vaemond Valeryon, to some measurable degree.)
And on the other hand Queen Alicent, who had chosen to allow Rhaenys to be locked up in her quarters in the Red Keep, whilst the Greens began their efforts to supplant Rhaenyra.
Rhaenys was already apprehensive to take sides even when her husband was indisposed, and Vaemond was attempting to supplant his grandchildren as the hier to Driftmark.
Of course she's going to get her dragon and herself out of King's Landing, at the expense of however many innocent civilians if necessary.
But taking sides, without the approval of her husband in particular, and killing everyone up on that dais in the dragon pit wasn't something she was willing to do.
Because it wasn't her war to begin with.
She was just a third party in the conflict between the Greens and Blacks.
Someone who's husband could wake up at any moment who's seat she was merely holding.
Driftmark, (the Velaryons,) not having chosen a side, without either Corlys' say or his death, wasn't hers to give, to either Alicent or Rhaenyra.
That's why she doesn't make any decisive moves until after Corlys wakes up and declares allegiance for one side or the other.
(I thought this was clear, of course she wouldn't say; "Dracarys!" lol it wasn't her war to begin, or end. She was simply getting herself and her dragon out of captivity, and that's it. But, judging by the amount of whining and complaining I've been seeing, so far, apparently not!)
✌️
Well effing said!!!!
Yeah I think the scene bothered me when watching it for the first time, but having read explanations like these I believe it makes a lot more sense in hindsight. Thanks!
Wish shit like this didn't even need to be said though, "@@darren806."
It's hardly as if the message can get across to many people, anyway. (Know what I mean?) ✌️
I saw a video that discussed an interview with a producer. Apparently one of them decided Daemon was selfish and cared for no one. She was the one who put the Meleys/Meraxes and Rhynes in the final scene and removed the scene with Daemon hugging his daughters
is that accent suposed to be creole ? Reminds me of Jessica Parker Kennedy in Black Sails.
Opinions are weird. I actually like White Worms accent. 🤷♂️
What is the incident everybody is talking about that is about to come and not make sense due to the Rhaenys scene in episode 9? I have read Fire and Blood but can't remember everything. Can someone please fill me in?
lol sorry, i love these reviews but need to know - what's the difference between the 2 different reviews for the same episode?
I’m pretty the White Worm (can’t spell her name lol) is supposed to have a French accent, which might be fitting for Lyse where I think she lived before, but I could be wrong.
Her accent totally sounded like some kind of Caribbean accent.
Mysaria
I can’t figure out what event down the line the rhaenys change is somehow complicating or preventing.
This. We need answers people
Haven't seen anyone talk about how Alicent was genuinely heartbroken over the kings death. He was like that sugar daddy who's your best friend lol She really loved him I thought that was sad
I'm sure as the series goes on Alicent will become colder.
I miss your animation you used while reviewing GOTs!
should i wait 2 years or read the book now?
lol aaron - It was news for me too!
I'm confused. What are we talking about with the potential spoiler later down the line that will affect what happens later in the story. I read Fire & Blood but i dont know what he is reffering to? Is it the SPOILER ABBREVIATED (TSOTDP)? P.S. If you got my abbreviation, you're a genius.
get that bag double sponsor!!
Can someone explain the moment Beau keeps mentioning regarding Rheynys and something that ruins in the book? I've read the book and am drawing a blank. Please dont read this thread if avoiding spoilers
dude i'm with you, maybe referring to
SPOILERS
rhaenys fighting against aegon at rooks rest? but i dont think it ruins her motivation or logic displayed so far... after ep 10 i think she will be motivated enough
It’s probably about the part where the small folk attack the dragon pit to kill the dragons and one of them try to escape through the roof but falls back down and crushes the small folk, at least that’s what I think it is
@@athenaantonio7898 Ah that's what I thought. Tbh if anything this adds to it as to why the small folk would want the dragons gone.
@@fore5489 Hmmm that also would just add to the scene. I dont understand the complaint from book readers as a book reader myself
I can't understand what he's taking about either. Killing smallfolk furthers the storming of the dragon pit. Rhaenys fighting the greens later on will make sense after they show how/why she is convinced by the blacks. What else could there be?
By the way the term smallfolk may not be as derogatory as you think. The term was first used when the Giants were still around in westoros. Even the wildlings who have no nobility use the term to differentiate between them and the giants.
Aaron learnt real quick. That “don’t disrespect me” was serious. Don’t joke about Dad Teddy.
I'm reading Game of Thrones again, since HOTD is airing. And one line that I seen that made my eyes widen was during Sansa's POV, when her dad was being overthrown and jailed.
She begins to miss Joffrey and reads a book of failed love stories, such as; "Valiant Prince Aemond and his doomed love for his brothers Queen." 👀👀
It's during Sansa's 3rd to last POV Chapter and right at the ending for anyone curious.
Aemon the Dragonknight. Different guy with a slightly different name
@@SuperCrow02 yeah, I know lol. But Condal and GRRM could twist some things and make it more an Easter egg.
Most likely not gonna happen, it was just something I wanted to point out lmao
Does Smile Brilliant deliver Down Under at all?
Oh,
I thought they’d burned the kiddy coliseum down. Huh
Good soup 👌🏼
“He’s a Loony Toon” lmfao
The point of a war of the roses type dynastic rivalry turned civil war is the process of escalation. Neither side starts of saying we're gonna commit the maximum atrocity in the most optimum way like a Bond villain. The march of events force things to spiral out of control. As one side commits something heinous, the other side wants "getback" and it becomes an elevating cycle. Therefore burning everyone down when nothing has happened is some sigma brain stuff but not something a rational actor would do. It's a shame Rhaenys didn't read Fire and Blood to be clairvoyant. If Catelyn simply poisoned the Lannisters at the Witnerfell feasts then she could've stopped a game of thrones. Robb Stark should've immediately executed Talissa as a suspected spy. He should've executed Qyburn to save the world. The austrians should've killed baby HitIer.
we all try to understand why Rhaenys didn't kill them all when sometimes you just don't have to kill and that's ok 😂
What is the name of the movie you spoke of re Chinese guy? Ty
Shang Chi - actor is Tony Leung
On the killing of civilians:
If the main dragon entrance/exit was locked down (which seems very possible), Rhaenys may have had no real alternative except breaking through the floorboards. In that scenario she loses a dragon, her life, or both by NOT breaking through the floorboards.
They could have just had the exit open or she breaks through the back. Having her kill innocent civilians and letting her spare the people about to kill her grandchildren is retarded there's no justify this. Now when main characters start dying in the war it's gonna be her fault.
That’s some good soup
Otto is to me a blend of Tywin and Little Finger
Rhys Ifans dated Sienna Miller during his “stud” days 😂
The Mysaria actor accent really drives me insane and I wish she was not directed to do that or of it was her choice I wish someone would have directed her not to
I can’t wait for your Ep 10 review
It was really a satisfying one - lots to talk about in terms of character motivation
Aaron has to pull out that 'cake and eat it too' lmfao. Bro.