agree. discussing cars the other day online and trying to explain to all the korean suv lovers, the REAL truth is the truth in 10 years. what is still working? what is still not peeled or cracked? what looks outdated and screams 10 years old or is that an 8 track??? keep it simple, stupid. car reviewers want it both ways. they adore the modern car and then dismiss a simple interior as poor.
I wish Mitsubishi could make an Evo 9 today AS IT IS from the factory today, it's one of my dream cars, a simple interior with a proper engine and transmission with a rally AWD system in a C segment 4 door saloon body, no gimmicks, no nonsense and excessive safety gizmos, but I'll keep dreaming or find an example that hasn't been raped and abused with cheap mods put into them
From 1903-1985, coloured interiors were normal and available in all cars, even the least espensive ones. It wasn't until recently that colours were removed to save money and keep choices to a minimum. Now we are offered, grey, beige, taupe, neutral, charcoal etc. All crap. Another thing is even if you do get a coloured interior, 50% of the parts are still black regardless, because it limits cost and inventory.
@@georgiapatriot4575 I live in that area and drive the rural roads of McHenry County quite often and have never had any deer run out in front of me, they tend to prefer more wooded areas.
I’ve owned 2011 C2S 6sp and 2012 GTS 6sp. And have extensively driven almost every series generation. 997.2 is a very special car and will do very well over the long-term. Bullet proof engine and excellent drive feel with some good soul. Also have a 951s and love it.
Not sure you should jinx them by calling them bulletproof. I'm a 996.2 owner and as a close follower of Jake Raby, he's seeing the bore scoring issues that first appeared in the M96 engines working it's way into the newer engines. To me, bullet proof implies you can treat them carelessly and they'll be fine. Instead, I'd say that if you keep the cylinders properly oiled and cooled, then they'll last a long time. This means keeping injectors from leaking and changing the oil every 6 months if you're not driving it much. Also, Raby has said that the DI engines are suffering from problems caused by detonation. Regardless of vintage, I think we'll all agree that a failed engine in a Porsche is going to cost big bucks to resolve.
My father always told me.. ( Porsche and Jag specifically ) Whatever the car cost's to buy... Save double that ! Because more than likely that is what you will be spending in maintenance and repairs.
Porsche are doing OEM retro fit Apple car play infotainment units now for older models. Might answer one of your concerns around old tech and connectivity 👍
These things hold their value stupidly well. They're great to drive and reliable as well. I'd argue that they're probably the safest investment that you can actually enjoy on a daily basis in terms of depreciation.
I agree. This generation 911 and the subsequent Cayman (987.2) all hold their values so well. They are all reliable and provide an engaging driving experience for the money.
@Koala Man good choice on the RC-F. Will be the most reliable car you could buy out of all of them. I purchased a BMW once before and had the same issues. Leaking coolant and oil everywhere (only owned it for 7 months-purchased as a CPO) and the roof liner fell apart.
This is one of my dream cars. I managed to own a 987.2 Manual Cayman for a bit before committing to a mortgage and owning a house. I now own a ND MX5 (cheaper car/cheaper insurance etc). The Mazda puts a smile on my face every time I drive it, but I miss the Porsche everyday.
FORGETFULFOOT I just got a 987.2 Cayman and sold my ND. I agree with you. The ND is a fantastic car and super fun. I wish I could have kept it. But the Porsche has a layer of soul and specialness that the ND lacks. Mods and parts are insanely more expensive though.
I had a 987.1 S. My only complaint was the tall gearing. It also wasn’t a great daily as it was quite loud and stiff, but man, it was such a connected car.
@@RobSchlegel Yeah I actually went from an ND MX5, to a 987.2 in Aqua Blue Metallic, then had a few more cars, then back to the ND again. The main reason I think MX5s are so great is that you can still have a great time if you unfortunately need to put your finances in other more important places. Its a good compromise car for the dude on a average/slightly above average income.
I sold my 1992 NA in 1999 to get into Porsches, all of which I've loved... but I also missed my Miata every day. I finally bought a 1999 NB1 to add to the 997.2 C2S , and find it refreshing to drive a car I can run up to the limiter shift after shift yet barely break the speed limit, or drift around a roundabout without going some insane speed.
I've been watching these for a while now, and their prices are going up. This is further compounded by the fact that the 997.2 was sold during the last recession and are very rare. Meanwhile, 991 prices are still going down, so at some point, I think the 991 looks better but this is the last of the more "mechanical" 911s.
Yeah man they are. My uncle has a clean fairly low mileage one he loves (silver on black manual 997.2) and I was surprised how much he's selling it for (around 60ish last I checked). Holding they're value stupid well. Just a carrera.
There are simply more than twice as many 997.1s. 15,146 Carrera and 35,570 Carrera S models in the 997.2 compare to 34,401 Carrera and 73,496 Carrera S models before the facelift. About 20% 997.2’s are manual.
Love this car! I have a 997.2 carrera MT with low mileage and has gone up 5~10k in value in just 6 months 😝crazy! I wish I could afford and maintain an air cooled 911 but I am very happy with this 2010!👍🏼 enjoy your 911’s if you’re fortunate enough to own one. Safe driving to all✌🏼
@TheImperfectGuy @need metal Exactly - you hope. My friend had one, immaculate condition, low miles, but it still had problems regularly such as faulty sensors. A visit to the dealership to diagnose and fix was an automatic $1,000-$2,000.
@@stonecoldcustoms With so many great indy pcar shops around, there should be no reason to take a 10year old car to the dealership for anything. I'm super happy with my 997.2 that I got this past July!
@@allanchu264 Depends on where you live - not so many great Indy car shops around in Canada. All of eastern canada has a population of like 2,000,000 people for 4 provinces.
I bought my 997 in 2005 and it does not do rain it has never been washed I clean it with distilled water and use a steamer for the wheels it is covered in my garage when not being used and does not have scratch on it My neighbours give me grief after every drive I clean the ca even spraying the tyres with high gloss foam. 50 k miles full serviced history I am 75 and a farmer friend of mine has offered to Bury me in the car when my time is up I have now got a mini Cooper due this month so I can use it daily. First fell in love with 911 when delivering papers in 1964 saw one and got the sack as I spend 30 minutes just looking at the car A sad old man who still feels as I did driving a fire engine in city of London in 1971 when I just drive in norfolk countryside where cars are rare The only fault is that my Bruce springstein greatest hits is in the cd and will not eject Porsche said it would cost too much to remove Any suggestions are welcome
Beautiful 997! Love the color combo! One of my favorite color combos. This car is definitely worth the $50k fee. It ages well, drives well, looks good, what else can you ask for? Will other modern $50k look this good after 10yrs? Don’t think so.
I've been to a few Porsche Club of America autocross events this year and this model always stuck out to me. Like he was saying, it seems like the perfect balance of modern (without being obnoxious) yet old enough to make it feel like an actual car.
Not unlike comparing an E90 BMW with actual steering feel and a playful chassis, to the F30 with the artificial, chalky-steering feel from the electric rack, and soggy road dynamics.
Its the best 911 since the SC. Which owning a 79SC is saying a lot. It does everything right, and most crucially feels right while doing it. Yes the newer cars are even faster, quieter, handle even better, and are more refined. That is what your extra hundred grand gets you. What it does not get you is much if anything in the way of a more involving driving experience. The 997.2 just feels like the way you know a Porsche should feel. Its not that the newer ones don't, but this one does, and in spades, and for a lot less money. You tracked down a good one here. Great video.
I second. It’s so good. My white whale is the 997.2 S, manual. It’s the first car I fell in love with during the test drive. It was like seeing the future. The controls are perfect. Clutch pedal feels engineered. Shifter is perfect. The power is deceptive, and omg the noises. Closest to the spirit of 993. Love, love, love it.
Jack: It has been an absolute pleasure watching you grow as a presenter. Now your ability to convey the information is as compelling as your depth of knowledge. Congrats!
Yes. Early Boxster or Cayman. Reasonably affordable, and many were not daily driven. Great value today, but won't stay that way long. As the price of entry into modern sports cars climbs, and production numbers drop, early 2000's and late '90's sporting hardware will continue to appreciate in value. Let some attorney eat the depreciation, and accumulate a stack of dealer service records. Then swoop in and reap the benefits of his/her financial folly.
It was an option in these cars. My 997.2 has no tech/bluetooth/aux funtion but the cars with the option have all the connectivity ports in the armrest storage compartment. After doing the fister muffler bypass and billy boat center muffler delete I don’t ever feel the need to connect to Bluetooth tho 😏
The iPhone 12 Pro seems to pair and function normally (just got the phone so no long term testing done, but so far it seems to function as well as with the X) That’s for phone only, no bluetooth audio streaming. Using an Invery Airdual dongle for that stuff, connects to the USB and AUX ports under the armrest. Works pretty well, gives me track names from Spotify/Podcast/Apple Music/whatnot in the PCM :-) (This is a .2 2011 PCM 3)
I have to say, the production quality of this video really is what stands out to me. I love cars, I love driving, car care and wrenching, however by all accounts I am otherwise an underachieving buffoon who will likely die just as broke as I live today, but NOT without the joy of having owned a Porsche 911. Thanks to your video, my sights are set on the goal of a financially responsible purchase of a 997.2 machine, by hook or by crook. Thank you for the inspiration, John
All of my iPhones pair to my 997.2 PCM3 and have done for the 12 years I've owned it... the issue is you can only use them for phone calls, not music/audio.
Can we stop acting like a $50-60k car is affordable and accessible to “regular” people just because the same company makes cars that cost 4x as much money? These are still out of reach for the vast majority of people.
I am not so sure about that. You can option a Camry to nearly $40k, and anyone who can afford that can probably swing the extra $10-20k to lock down a Porsche. Granted most people don’t have that much laying around in cash, but Porsche has always been a pay to play game. I also think that SG’s core audience is a high-end crowd so a $50k semi-modern 911 is actually a bargain to them, considering the costs of a new one.
@@aygwm That doesn't make any sense. Because I could afford a $40k car, I can afford a $60k car? Just because its a Camry doesn't mean its cheap. Also people buy a Camry as a do it all practical family car that is extremely reliable and cheap to own. Lets be honest, the vast majority of Porsches are bought as second cars and they have a high cost of ownership. If $50k for a weekend car is an affordable bargain to you, you are straight up rich, not a regular everyman. I'm not saying they should be cheaper or aren't worth the money, I just have to laugh at the whole "poor mans Porsche", "poverty spec", and "affordable entry level" tropes in the Porsche world. Give me a break.
@@aygwm you can get cheap financing for that brand-new Camry, and with a new car warranty that lets you fix your costs for the next 4-5 years. For the Porsche, you'll either pay a premium to get CPO with some warranty (which may also have financing available); and if not CPO, the financing is likely expensive and short meaning much larger payments for the same financed price.
How many pickups do you see where you live, assuming it is USA. Because most of those pickups you see are not driven by doctors or super-wealthy, they are "regular" working people, and many these trucks are easily $50k.
@@lightness1701 lol I'm EVERYWHERE Pleasure to meet you I haven't been on the comment section for a while I've been busy but glad to meet a fellow commenter from TG forums
Had a 2009 C2S, and was not sad to get out of it. Too tall gearing, cheap interior (did not get the leather option), and chattering understeer on AutoX. Marc Daddio took my car for a spin, and he literally did spin...he's still laughing at it from somewhere...Have a 2019 GT3 now, and it felt more "analog" than my 2009, and much more effective.
Love your videos. Masterful production value without taking yourselves too seriously. Honest reviews for real car guys, focusing on what real car guys care about. And Mark's demeanor, which says "I love cars but I'm disappointed that the asteroid hasn't hit yet"
Loved this video - watched it a few times!! I haven't driven a manual in decades but when dude was about to put the hammer down and was in reverse, I hit the floor!! Great video and love the 997.2!!
I hope they do go down in the next 2 years. I'm really wanting buy one and the one he has in the video for 50k is immaculate. The ones for 50k now are 15 years old and have 100k miles
It's good because it's not half-assed. When I saw two other cars there showed where it was mostly the upper half of the seats only, like a tongue on them or something, I didn't like that.
@@SirOsisofLiver or you can do what everyone else does and finance your purchase over 5 years. Even rich people dont just write a 100k check for a car.
@@ferraridav Gross (not including income tax, and other deductions) pay of a family making $65k/ year is $5416/month. Take about $1600 off of that for taxes, depending on jurisdiction. So about $3820ish net pay. A $60k car with $5k down payment amortized over 5 years works out to $1128/month including Interest and sales tax here. Since this is based on household income, there is the likelihood that a second car would be needed and we haven't even talked about housing costs etc. Could a family do it? Maybe. Should they? No, absolutely not.
Red interior and a dark exterior like this car works IMHO. Just picked up a higher mileage, perfectly maintained 09' C4S for mid 30's. Lots of records, looks like it has 40K on it. There are still deals to be had. Easy car to maintain too. Great vid!
These 997s are definitely gonna start increasing in value for nice ones with the manual most likely. If u can get one in the 40s with lower mileage I think its a solid investment
Isn’t it true that like 40-50% of Americans have enough savings to last them one week lol, but yet this is a car we can all afford? A $50k used Porsche?
Wrong choice of words but you seem to miss what they are trying to say. It's in the Corvette price range which was always labeled as the "common or poor man's supercar." The price is within reach for some in the middle class. A brand new 911 isn't.
I completely agree with the hydraulic steering comment. Between the 997 991 and 992 , they all feel pretty amazing. Nothing is like the manual rack from the 944 but the 997 is not magic, but it is dang good.
After years of looking, I finally found my perfect first 911. It’s a 2011 997.2 series 911 Carrera S Cabriolet 6-sp manual in triple black. It’s still under 40k miles but I do drive it often. I’ve had it almost 2 yrs and it seems values on this one are stable if not increasing. I don’t care, I love it & hope to keep it!
Great video! I was searching high and wide for a 997.2 targa with the hatchback-like rear glass, but they seem to be pink unicorns..got me jazzed to start looking around again! That said, not sure it’s better than a more modern Cayman GTS or Boxster GTS (before the 718) for an overall driving experience. Agree with you on the steering feel being overblown...outside driving on the track or really hard in the felony area on regular roads, you won’t be able to get the distinction. My only gripe with that generation of Porsche is that extremely ugly steering wheel. AND, I totally agree that too many people overlook that even though you can get it for 50K, when it’s time to repair something, you are repairing a 100k car!!
7s29 ...Sad, isn’t it. And seemingly for no reason, beyond the initial price being savagely taxed and this initial high buy-in keeps the car beyond mere mortals.
Thank your governments taxation for that... especially the LCT that successfully supported all those dozens of Aussie car makers.... oh wait they are all gone right?
I drove a 997 gt3 on the track and I had a 'never meet your heros' moment. Shifter felt vauge, steering wasnt as its been touted, terminal untersteer, unless you lift your foot a millimeter, then is becomes a whiplash machine. This was on ps4s's. I hopped back in my s2000 and enjoyed my razor sharp front end and wicked lateral G's I could pull.
At least in Germany, Porsche approved 997.2 start in the high 50s, while approved 991.1 start in the low 60s. There's definitively a lot of demand when it comes to 997.2s. The pricing gap between starting prices is almost nonexistent while the overall pricing range has a lot of overlap between the two. The opposite is true when looking at 996.x vs. 997.x or 991.x vs 992.x (obviously). That just goes to show right now the 997.2 is the one at least the used market prefers and you'll have to pay a significant premium for that 'last analogue Porsche' :)
One more thing - due to the recession these 997.2's had relatively low production numbers. They're not exactly rare, but if you're looking for specific options it can take years to find the right one. C4S's are definitely the hardest to find out of all the models
A note for the brakes. The first gen pccb were available on the 996 turbo. Second the 997.2 base did see a slight caliper redesign on the 997.2 base. They also went to 330mm+28mm rotors front and rear vs the .1 base was 318mmx28mm front and 299mm×24mm rear. Both used 4 piston calipers front and rear
Another great video fom the Savages! Thanks Mark and Jack. Porsche is actually one of the more reliable German brands. I would never actively buy one though.
I’m gonna say it. I like the red interior a lot particularly on a dark color. It’s not a super bright shade at all and you kinda gotta put red on everything at that point or else like a lot of e46 M3s and M coupes with the two tone it’ll look like autozone seat covers or some tasteless Barrett Jackson resto mod.
15:05 be prepared to spend a huge amount of money for upgrading the shift knob! Straight from Porsche a new one with aluminum will set you back upwards of 1000€.. D:
I hate people calling the 996 ugly or cost-cut. Its not. People call the 996 interior ugly, but remember, it was designed in the *early 90s.* It was meant for the 993. Its a much nicer place to be than any other car from c. 1999. Further, the exterior is more true to the "classic" 911 shape than the 997. Its proportioned better, lighter (lighter than even the 993), and smaller. Plus, if you want analogue, the 996 is best. Get a 99, and you wont even have eGas. 996 911 best 911, change my mind.
As a long time miata owner, I often go through the paces of figuring out where to go next. Corevette and porsche seem to be the only options that come up again and again. The 987.2 and 981 are also tempting. C6 Grand Sport on the corvette front
Awesome video like always! It just wouldve been really nice to distinguish better between the 997.1 and the 997.2. The motor in the 997.1 was far from bombproof. It actually had more and more important way more expensive failures than the motor of the 996.2 which was actually really reliable
Awesome car, awesomeness review, that accidental Reverse launch was so fucking funny, the only sad thing is in australia a used one of these with 40K miles is still $120,000 or more it’s FUCKED
Very informative and useful. These are THE cars to own now as they are set to go up as every good dealer out there that specialises in this generation cannot get enough of them; regularly showing 'deposit taken' , 'reserved' or 'sold' within days of being listed on-line.
As a former 997.2 S owner and a current 991.1. GT3 owner, having owned both at the same time - part of the 997 difference/feel vs the 991 is the chassis rigidity. The lack of it compared to the 991 makes the car communicate the road surface more. Along with the additional tactile feel through the steering wheel. Both great cars, but very different back to back mainly IMO attributed to the chassis stiffness. Also my 2009 S had the PCM so supposedly playing music was an option BUT the proprietary cable was missing from my car when I got it. Frankly I turn the infotainment off 100% of the time in the 998 AND the 991, preferring to focus on the driving experience rather than the techno BS the industry forces on us now to keep the bored short attention span potential buyers from feeling like they have been slighted. I can see it as a first time Porsche coupe buyer draw but for a true driving experience focused buyer it’s unnecessary and a distraction from the experience. I won’t apologize for dissing tech. Why are old Toyota cruisers and 4runners selling for such a premium now? Runaway tech and complexity has plagued most of the modern interesting AND uninteresting cars/trucks. The 997.2 sits right in that gap between too much and not enough, AND has proven itself to be a reasonable car to own out of warranty with piece of mind around reasonably priced maintenance (yes you can do the basics yourself if you like) and hopefully just an odd sensor failure here and there to deal with. GDI and carbon buildup is an issue this car has to live with but there are solutions to this as well if you end up high miling one of these
I drove a 997 for awhile and didnt really enjoy it - the engine feels coarse (not smooth like the BMW I6s or even a Coyote engine), the Porsche stick shifter is rubbery and the steering does not have a ton of precision or feedback. I had high hopes but left disappointed!
![Last Of Its Kind - Porsche 911 Carrera (997.2) [911OBSESSED]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BUmH5LVaGQc/mqdefault.jpg)
Finally, a car I can eat spaghetti in without worry
😂😂😂
Not that one, its too nice
🍝💯
Bad advice, my 911 smells like spaghetti sauce.
Mrs Spaghetti would be so proud.
The lack of buttons, a busy dash and stupid screen is refreshing
agree.
discussing cars the other day online and trying to explain to all the korean suv lovers, the REAL truth is the truth in 10 years.
what is still working?
what is still not peeled or cracked?
what looks outdated and screams 10 years old or is that an 8 track???
keep it simple, stupid.
car reviewers want it both ways.
they adore the modern car and then dismiss a simple interior as poor.
That thing still does have a lot of buttons 😂. It’s just not stupid is all.
i noticed that too. no steering wheel buttons is a great look . i love that look
I wish Mitsubishi could make an Evo 9 today AS IT IS from the factory today, it's one of my dream cars, a simple interior with a proper engine and transmission with a rally AWD system in a C segment 4 door saloon body, no gimmicks, no nonsense and excessive safety gizmos, but I'll keep dreaming or find an example that hasn't been raped and abused with cheap mods put into them
The manual handbrake is also great to see.
What trim pieces and accents would you like to be in red?
Owner: yes
Wtf its not funny anymore gtfo
@@r7z859 It's not even the worst application of that tiresome unwitty meme that I have found. In this case, I can kinda see it work.
As it should be.
@@Dowlphin talks a guy with profile pic of my little pony? Tf
From 1903-1985, coloured interiors were normal and available in all cars, even the least espensive ones. It wasn't until recently that colours were removed to save money and keep choices to a minimum. Now we are offered, grey, beige, taupe, neutral, charcoal etc. All crap. Another thing is even if you do get a coloured interior, 50% of the parts are still black regardless, because it limits cost and inventory.
The guy with the red barn has to be tired of Mark's shenanigans by now
LoL! Maybe Mark owns it and shoots videos on animal husbandry there. But don't look in the cellar :)
I keep expecting a deer to pop out of one of those fields and dart a cross in front of him.
@@georgiapatriot4575 I live in that area and drive the rural roads of McHenry County quite often and have never had any deer run out in front of me, they tend to prefer more wooded areas.
I absolutely love the “Marry a Doctor or a Stripper” analogy!
Can't believe that line made it to the final cut loll
Better yet, marry the doctor who paid her way through medical school by moonlighting as a stripper. 😏
@@CarlVandenberg what car would that be?
@@palmermonsen9098 That car has to be the new C8 Corvette !
@@CarlVandenberg .. Give that man a cigar! Correct answer is; Marry a Doctor who’s afforded medical school as a Striper. That cracks me up.
I’ve owned 2011 C2S 6sp and 2012 GTS 6sp. And have extensively driven almost every series generation. 997.2 is a very special car and will do very well over the long-term. Bullet proof engine and excellent drive feel with some good soul. Also have a 951s and love it.
Cheers for the 951 club, i miss mine now.
Not sure you should jinx them by calling them bulletproof. I'm a 996.2 owner and as a close follower of Jake Raby, he's seeing the bore scoring issues that first appeared in the M96 engines working it's way into the newer engines. To me, bullet proof implies you can treat them carelessly and they'll be fine. Instead, I'd say that if you keep the cylinders properly oiled and cooled, then they'll last a long time. This means keeping injectors from leaking and changing the oil every 6 months if you're not driving it much. Also, Raby has said that the DI engines are suffering from problems caused by detonation. Regardless of vintage, I think we'll all agree that a failed engine in a Porsche is going to cost big bucks to resolve.
@@georgiapatriot4575 I have switched exclusively to Driven DI synthetic per Baby's advice.
Is the GTS with the extra $15k-20k? I’m in the market for a 997.2 C2S or Gts 6mt to replace my 09 c2 pdk
How do you find the 997.2 compared to the 991?
The GT 911’s are the screaming hard edge cars, the Carrera isn’t supposed to be ‘this’ it’s the every day 911.
Remember: It may be a 50k car now, but still requires parts for a 120k car.
That's what makes it a 50k buy-in
My father always told me..
( Porsche and Jag specifically )
Whatever the car cost's to buy...
Save double that !
Because more than likely that is what you will be spending in maintenance and repairs.
😭
Engine in the back means you have to bend over to fix it.
Good thing Porsches are pretty damn reliable. But it is indeed pricey.
40-60k, this is something you and I could afford to buy.
Not me lol
What a peasant, lol
You can get a decent 997 for less.
Not us!
Does this guy think we are all rich?? Most of us fight to put food in the table each meal...
40-60k is way more accessible than 125k. It’s all relative.
Porsche are doing OEM retro fit Apple car play infotainment units now for older models. Might answer one of your concerns around old tech and connectivity 👍
These things hold their value stupidly well. They're great to drive and reliable as well. I'd argue that they're probably the safest investment that you can actually enjoy on a daily basis in terms of depreciation.
I agree. This generation 911 and the subsequent Cayman (987.2) all hold their values so well. They are all reliable and provide an engaging driving experience for the money.
@Koala Man Other German sports cars. Not to a corolla.
@@pranavp386 you understand.
@Koala Man RC-F is beauty.Great choice 👍
@Koala Man good choice on the RC-F. Will be the most reliable car you could buy out of all of them. I purchased a BMW once before and had the same issues. Leaking coolant and oil everywhere (only owned it for 7 months-purchased as a CPO) and the roof liner fell apart.
This is one of my dream cars. I managed to own a 987.2 Manual Cayman for a bit before committing to a mortgage and owning a house. I now own a ND MX5 (cheaper car/cheaper insurance etc). The Mazda puts a smile on my face every time I drive it, but I miss the Porsche everyday.
FORGETFULFOOT I just got a 987.2 Cayman and sold my ND. I agree with you. The ND is a fantastic car and super fun. I wish I could have kept it. But the Porsche has a layer of soul and specialness that the ND lacks. Mods and parts are insanely more expensive though.
Same here...one day it'll happen again.
I had a 987.1 S. My only complaint was the tall gearing. It also wasn’t a great daily as it was quite loud and stiff, but man, it was such a connected car.
@@RobSchlegel Yeah I actually went from an ND MX5, to a 987.2 in Aqua Blue Metallic, then had a few more cars, then back to the ND again. The main reason I think MX5s are so great is that you can still have a great time if you unfortunately need to put your finances in other more important places. Its a good compromise car for the dude on a average/slightly above average income.
I sold my 1992 NA in 1999 to get into Porsches, all of which I've loved... but I also missed my Miata every day. I finally bought a 1999 NB1 to add to the 997.2 C2S , and find it refreshing to drive a car I can run up to the limiter shift after shift yet barely break the speed limit, or drift around a roundabout without going some insane speed.
I've been watching these for a while now, and their prices are going up. This is further compounded by the fact that the 997.2 was sold during the last recession and are very rare. Meanwhile, 991 prices are still going down, so at some point, I think the 991 looks better but this is the last of the more "mechanical" 911s.
Yeah man they are. My uncle has a clean fairly low mileage one he loves (silver on black manual 997.2) and I was surprised how much he's selling it for (around 60ish last I checked). Holding they're value stupid well. Just a carrera.
They produce about 76k and twice as many .1s
These are far from rare.
There are simply more than twice as many 997.1s. 15,146 Carrera and 35,570 Carrera S models in the 997.2 compare to 34,401 Carrera and 73,496 Carrera S models before the facelift. About 20% 997.2’s are manual.
0:55 It's like a 90's intro montage to a serial show. Love it & the 996/997. Really diggin the Porsche love. :-)
Great video as always, I love watching these videos before work.
Before, during, after . . .
:-D
I love watching them at work. And by work I mean at home in my pajamas muted on conferences calls
@@negahplz1156 can confirm, it's the best time to watch these
@@negahplz1156 lol ,,,, me too one earbud youtube, other conf call
I love watching them during work...LOL.
Great review. One note: Everybody always who claims 2+2s don’t have space in the rear don’t have kids.
Yes, this was actually a great "family sports car" until this year - my 12yo no longer fits in the back, and the 10yo wouldn't be very comfortable.
I fit in the back of one of these. Not "comfy", but I'd do it for an hour or so just because its fun to ride in.
I honestly would love a 2+2 just because it has space in the back for my stuff so I don't have to use the trunk all the time.
Love this car! I have a 997.2 carrera MT with low mileage and has gone up 5~10k in value in just 6 months 😝crazy! I wish I could afford and maintain an air cooled 911 but I am very happy with this 2010!👍🏼 enjoy your 911’s if you’re fortunate enough to own one. Safe driving to all✌🏼
Love these car. And I agree that this is from the golden era of driving engagement. Thanks to the owner!
Repair costs keep it from being a "beater". Nice car though
I mean, not real repairs needed outside of the most basic maintenance
And parts in case of a crash
@@TheImperfectGuy that's the hope
@TheImperfectGuy @need metal Exactly - you hope. My friend had one, immaculate condition, low miles, but it still had problems regularly such as faulty sensors. A visit to the dealership to diagnose and fix was an automatic $1,000-$2,000.
@@stonecoldcustoms With so many great indy pcar shops around, there should be no reason to take a 10year old car to the dealership for anything. I'm super happy with my 997.2 that I got this past July!
@@allanchu264 Depends on where you live - not so many great Indy car shops around in Canada. All of eastern canada has a population of like 2,000,000 people for 4 provinces.
I bought my 997 in 2005 and it does not do rain it has never been washed I clean it with distilled water and use a steamer for the wheels it is covered in my garage when not being used and does not have scratch on it
My neighbours give me grief after every drive I clean the ca even spraying the tyres with high gloss foam.
50 k miles full serviced history
I am 75 and a farmer friend of mine has offered to Bury me in the car when my time is up
I have now got a mini Cooper due this month so I can use it daily.
First fell in love with 911 when delivering papers in 1964 saw one and got the sack as I spend 30 minutes just looking at the car
A sad old man who still feels as I did driving a fire engine in city of London in 1971 when I just drive in norfolk countryside where cars are rare
The only fault is that my Bruce springstein greatest hits is in the cd and will not eject
Porsche said it would cost too much to remove
Any suggestions are welcome
$50,000 28,000 miles stick shift 997.2???? Now that does not exist at all, maybe around 70,000, look it up, I wish it was 50k.
Beautiful 997! Love the color combo! One of my favorite color combos. This car is definitely worth the $50k fee. It ages well, drives well, looks good, what else can you ask for? Will other modern $50k look this good after 10yrs? Don’t think so.
I've been to a few Porsche Club of America autocross events this year and this model always stuck out to me. Like he was saying, it seems like the perfect balance of modern (without being obnoxious) yet old enough to make it feel like an actual car.
Not unlike comparing an E90 BMW with actual steering feel and a playful chassis, to the F30 with the artificial, chalky-steering feel from the electric rack, and soggy road dynamics.
E90 has crap steering feel too
Its the best 911 since the SC. Which owning a 79SC is saying a lot. It does everything right, and most crucially feels right while doing it. Yes the newer cars are even faster, quieter, handle even better, and are more refined. That is what your extra hundred grand gets you. What it does not get you is much if anything in the way of a more involving driving experience. The 997.2 just feels like the way you know a Porsche should feel. Its not that the newer ones don't, but this one does, and in spades, and for a lot less money. You tracked down a good one here. Great video.
The manuals are rare....
Probably one of the best cars ever made imho.
I second. It’s so good. My white whale is the 997.2 S, manual. It’s the first car I fell in love with during the test drive. It was like seeing the future. The controls are perfect. Clutch pedal feels engineered. Shifter is perfect. The power is deceptive, and omg the noises. Closest to the spirit of 993. Love, love, love it.
Jack: It has been an absolute pleasure watching you grow as a presenter. Now your ability to convey the information is as compelling as your depth of knowledge. Congrats!
Thank you chadd. I appreciate it
@@jackholmes8105 it has made these videos that much better, your presentation with mark is not something found anywhere else
So.. why are you Jack "Singapore"!?
Requesting a 987 boxster review. Trying to bring that $$ amount even lower haha
Yes. Early Boxster or Cayman. Reasonably affordable, and many were not daily driven. Great value today, but won't stay that way long. As the price of entry into modern sports cars climbs, and production numbers drop, early 2000's and late '90's sporting hardware will continue to appreciate in value. Let some attorney eat the depreciation, and accumulate a stack of dealer service records. Then swoop in and reap the benefits of his/her financial folly.
As owner of this car I have never had a problem pairing my IPhone X with it. Not sure what Jack is referring to in his comment.
It was an option in these cars. My 997.2 has no tech/bluetooth/aux funtion but the cars with the option have all the connectivity ports in the armrest storage compartment. After doing the fister muffler bypass and billy boat center muffler delete I don’t ever feel the need to connect to Bluetooth tho 😏
The iPhone X is the last iPhone to pair reliably. Believe me. The iPhone 11seems to connect, but constantly cuts out. It's a known problem.
Same. My 987.2 has the same PCM 3.0 and I never had trouble pairing my 2 year old LG android.
I never have a problem with pairing my android either!
The iPhone 12 Pro seems to pair and function normally (just got the phone so no long term testing done, but so far it seems to function as well as with the X)
That’s for phone only, no bluetooth audio streaming. Using an Invery Airdual dongle for that stuff, connects to the USB and AUX ports under the armrest. Works pretty well, gives me track names from Spotify/Podcast/Apple Music/whatnot in the PCM :-)
(This is a .2 2011 PCM 3)
Big thank you, Joe, for letting them have their way with this car and the Z3 clown shoes
I have to say, the production quality of this video really is what stands out to me. I love cars, I love driving, car care and wrenching, however by all accounts I am otherwise an underachieving buffoon who will likely die just as broke as I live today, but NOT without the joy of having owned a Porsche 911. Thanks to your video, my sights are set on the goal of a financially responsible purchase of a 997.2 machine, by hook or by crook.
Thank you for the inspiration,
John
Such a beautiful car, even 10 years later. Love that interior and exterior.
For me.. Definitely a 997 in the garage! This one,just may be lust worthy as you mentioned.
The look of disappointment on Jack's face as Mark breaks down the car at 17:55 is hilarious
All of my iPhones pair to my 997.2 PCM3 and have done for the 12 years I've owned it... the issue is you can only use them for phone calls, not music/audio.
Can we stop acting like a $50-60k car is affordable and accessible to “regular” people just because the same company makes cars that cost 4x as much money? These are still out of reach for the vast majority of people.
True, but affordable in terms of priorities not common sense in a dying economy. Lol.
I am not so sure about that. You can option a Camry to nearly $40k, and anyone who can afford that can probably swing the extra $10-20k to lock down a Porsche. Granted most people don’t have that much laying around in cash, but Porsche has always been a pay to play game. I also think that SG’s core audience is a high-end crowd so a $50k semi-modern 911 is actually a bargain to them, considering the costs of a new one.
@@aygwm That doesn't make any sense. Because I could afford a $40k car, I can afford a $60k car? Just because its a Camry doesn't mean its cheap. Also people buy a Camry as a do it all practical family car that is extremely reliable and cheap to own. Lets be honest, the vast majority of Porsches are bought as second cars and they have a high cost of ownership. If $50k for a weekend car is an affordable bargain to you, you are straight up rich, not a regular everyman. I'm not saying they should be cheaper or aren't worth the money, I just have to laugh at the whole "poor mans Porsche", "poverty spec", and "affordable entry level" tropes in the Porsche world. Give me a break.
@@aygwm you can get cheap financing for that brand-new Camry, and with a new car warranty that lets you fix your costs for the next 4-5 years. For the Porsche, you'll either pay a premium to get CPO with some warranty (which may also have financing available); and if not CPO, the financing is likely expensive and short meaning much larger payments for the same financed price.
How many pickups do you see where you live, assuming it is USA. Because most of those pickups you see are not driven by doctors or super-wealthy, they are "regular" working people, and many these trucks are easily $50k.
Loving that Guards Red (I think). Beautiful interior and well maintained.
Looks like Basalt Black to me. Guards Red is an exterior paint color.
@@OMGWTFLOLSMH I stand corrected. Watching too many Porsche West Broward videos....so many colors.
The 997 is one of the best looking Porsches ever made
Man it has aged so well!
It looks like a big eyed fish. I always hated that design. I don’t know why they keep that on every porsche
Beautiful proportions rival Aston Martins
The Audi 5 coupe is also timeless
Dang, I never expected to see you outside of the TG forums. (Janitor_genie here)
@@lightness1701 lol I'm EVERYWHERE
Pleasure to meet you I haven't been on the comment section for a while I've been busy but glad to meet a fellow commenter from TG forums
Had a 2009 C2S, and was not sad to get out of it. Too tall gearing, cheap interior (did not get the leather option), and chattering understeer on AutoX. Marc Daddio took my car for a spin, and he literally did spin...he's still laughing at it from somewhere...Have a 2019 GT3 now, and it felt more "analog" than my 2009, and much more effective.
“This is the equivalent of marrying a doctor instead of a stripper.” 😂😂😂 bravo!
Funny! I just used that same analogy today.
I had a .1 C4S cab and .2 turbo, both fab cars. It’s difficult to find anything else as good, they really get under your skin. Nice video 👍
Love your videos. Masterful production value without taking yourselves too seriously. Honest reviews for real car guys, focusing on what real car guys care about. And Mark's demeanor, which says "I love cars but I'm disappointed that the asteroid hasn't hit yet"
Loved this video - watched it a few times!! I haven't driven a manual in decades but when dude was about to put the hammer down and was in reverse, I hit the floor!! Great video and love the 997.2!!
Am I the only one who went straight to the classifieds to see what there is for the 997.2 on the market?
Always looking myself! Lol but then reality hits hard.
@@erikhaw7313 you can always go for a .1 at 15-20k less
As soon as this video is over.....🤣
These things haven’t fallen in price in years.. still about $50k for at least 6-7 yrs
I would be too surprise if they went up...
Crazy how the prices went up from only like 1 1/2 years ago. Would love to get to drive one of these one day.
Like 90k to 100k now
I hope they do go down in the next 2 years. I'm really wanting buy one and the one he has in the video for 50k is immaculate. The ones for 50k now are 15 years old and have 100k miles
They were under valued for too long, the values will stay high because 911’s age well
The red interior is brilliant. If you think otherwise you're a barbarian.
Hideous red interior is hideous.
OMGWTFLOL but kind of cool?
😬
I'll tell you what's best in life... To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the girly men.
It's good because it's not half-assed.
When I saw two other cars there showed where it was mostly the upper half of the seats only, like a tongue on them or something, I didn't like that.
Then consider me Conan because that interior is gaaaahhhd-awful.
A $50k Porsche will beat the crap out of my peasant wallet.
Same
Yeah, median US household Income is ~$65k. Take living expenses out of that, and there's not much left for $40-60k toys.
65k unless you get furloughed in this awesome covid economy 😉
@@SirOsisofLiver or you can do what everyone else does and finance your purchase over 5 years. Even rich people dont just write a 100k check for a car.
@@ferraridav Gross (not including income tax, and other deductions) pay of a family making $65k/ year is $5416/month. Take about $1600 off of that for taxes, depending on jurisdiction. So about $3820ish net pay.
A $60k car with $5k down payment amortized over 5 years works out to $1128/month including Interest and sales tax here.
Since this is based on household income, there is the likelihood that a second car would be needed and we haven't even talked about housing costs etc.
Could a family do it? Maybe. Should they? No, absolutely not.
SavageGeese, brought to you by Patagonia
😆
I owned and drove a manual 997.2 C2S daily for 5 years, put 50,000km on it. It was the best car I have ever owned in over 40 years of driving. Period.
Another commenter here said he owned one for a year and will never own another.
Awesome camera angle, keep it up guys. Great work.
I sold my '10 Carrera S 2 years ago. WTF was I thinking?
If I could afford one I would never sell it.
Im sure your marriage is better
Red interior and a dark exterior like this car works IMHO. Just picked up a higher mileage, perfectly maintained 09' C4S for mid 30's. Lots of records, looks like it has 40K on it. There are still deals to be had. Easy car to maintain too. Great vid!
These make great daily’s but wouldn’t scratch the itch for a weekend car. For some perfection is the goal. For others it becomes boring.
These 997s are definitely gonna start increasing in value for nice ones with the manual most likely. If u can get one in the 40s with lower mileage I think its a solid investment
Agreed. But as of right now, low mileage 997.2s with manual for $40k simply don’t exist. They are now north of $60k.
Isn’t it true that like 40-50% of Americans have enough savings to last them one week lol, but yet this is a car we can all afford? A $50k used Porsche?
these guys are calling it a Beater so...
Wrong choice of words but you seem to miss what they are trying to say. It's in the Corvette price range which was always labeled as the "common or poor man's supercar."
The price is within reach for some in the middle class. A brand new 911 isn't.
The magic of finance :)
It’s obvious you haven’t been in the market for one...
I completely agree with the hydraulic steering comment. Between the 997 991 and 992 , they all feel pretty amazing. Nothing is like the manual rack from the 944 but the 997 is not magic, but it is dang good.
I love watching these videos before work.
I love watching at work
weirdshibainu 😂😅
Love you guys' dry wit and the sort of review style that's relevant to the everyman.
After years of looking, I finally found my perfect first 911. It’s a 2011 997.2 series 911 Carrera S Cabriolet 6-sp manual in triple black. It’s still under 40k miles but I do drive it often. I’ve had it almost 2 yrs and it seems values on this one are stable if not increasing. I don’t care, I love it & hope to keep it!
Great video! I was searching high and wide for a 997.2 targa with the hatchback-like rear glass, but they seem to be pink unicorns..got me jazzed to start looking around again! That said, not sure it’s better than a more modern Cayman GTS or Boxster GTS (before the 718) for an overall driving experience. Agree with you on the steering feel being overblown...outside driving on the track or really hard in the felony area on regular roads, you won’t be able to get the distinction. My only gripe with that generation of Porsche is that extremely ugly steering wheel. AND, I totally agree that too many people overlook that even though you can get it for 50K, when it’s time to repair something, you are repairing a 100k car!!
The interior looks like a mcdonalds play place
Nah.
In Australia that car sells for $150k - $200k. The average person will never own one.
7s29 ...Sad, isn’t it. And seemingly for no reason, beyond the initial price being savagely taxed and this initial high buy-in keeps the car beyond mere mortals.
A 4S would be 150 but a plain Carrera should be a fair bit less. But literally zero manual Carreras for sale in Australia right now.
Thank your governments taxation for that... especially the LCT that successfully supported all those dozens of Aussie car makers.... oh wait they are all gone right?
C Macd kind of. I mean that is part of it but Porsche in Australia is particularly overpriced compared to say BMW or whatever.
same in Brazil, kinda impossible for a "normal" worker.
there is WAY too much red in that cabin.
Let’s bring sexy back
for YOU, maybe--i DIG it
subjective
I LOVE the red!
Any amount of bright red in a cabin is too much, for me. I hate red interiors. If you love red though, I guess this is your dream cabin.
Thank you for doing a base C2!
Thank you for letting Mark and Jack review this car! These Porsches are ageless and just beautiful.
Now do the 987.2 Cayman S. As always great work fellas.
Ahh finally something I can afford. I see it now... Just me, my porsche and my cup noodles for dinner every night.
I am fortunate to own two of the greatest cars ever built - the 2011 997.2 and the 1979 MBZ 450SL - Thank you, Jesus!
“Analog” was the first word that came to mind when I drove my friend’s 997.
Time to re-name title to $60,000 Beater...
I drove a 997 gt3 on the track and I had a 'never meet your heros' moment. Shifter felt vauge, steering wasnt as its been touted, terminal untersteer, unless you lift your foot a millimeter, then is becomes a whiplash machine. This was on ps4s's. I hopped back in my s2000 and enjoyed my razor sharp front end and wicked lateral G's I could pull.
I have a 997.1 which I absolutely love! The .2 is a very good ride as well.
***THANKS JOE*** (Owner)
At least in Germany, Porsche approved 997.2 start in the high 50s, while approved 991.1 start in the low 60s. There's definitively a lot of demand when it comes to 997.2s. The pricing gap between starting prices is almost nonexistent while the overall pricing range has a lot of overlap between the two. The opposite is true when looking at 996.x vs. 997.x or 991.x vs 992.x (obviously). That just goes to show right now the 997.2 is the one at least the used market prefers and you'll have to pay a significant premium for that 'last analogue Porsche' :)
Watching this 2 years later makes me want to cry......because NOW 997.2s are $$$$$$$$
Wish they were still 40 to 60k for a really nice one.
Please send me a link to 997.2 Targa 4S for $50,000 I can't find it anywhere in US.....
One more thing - due to the recession these 997.2's had relatively low production numbers. They're not exactly rare, but if you're looking for specific options it can take years to find the right one. C4S's are definitely the hardest to find out of all the models
Definitely true. Took me 6+ months to find my 09 manual C4S, and I had to road trip to another state to get it!
I got lucky and found the manual C4S convertible with the lap timer. Daily driver.
At the risk of sounding like a Boomer about the 60's cars, but mid 2000's cars were the sweet spot for me, analog yet modern enough 🙏🏻
i wouldn't call a 50k Porsche a beater though
Track beater, maybe
i had a 997.2 C2S and loved it before i was rear ended by a distracted teenager and totaled. i was at a stoplight.
Bummer!
Peak of Jack’s reviews - man has become a great reviewer.
Thanks. It has been a constant struggle. I appreciate the kind words
Beaters are $5k, not $50k.
Depends on your budget
A note for the brakes. The first gen pccb were available on the 996 turbo. Second the 997.2 base did see a slight caliper redesign on the 997.2 base. They also went to 330mm+28mm rotors front and rear vs the .1 base was 318mmx28mm front and 299mm×24mm rear. Both used 4 piston calipers front and rear
Another great video fom the Savages! Thanks Mark and Jack. Porsche is actually one of the more reliable German brands. I would never actively buy one though.
I’m gonna say it. I like the red interior a lot particularly on a dark color. It’s not a super bright shade at all and you kinda gotta put red on everything at that point or else like a lot of e46 M3s and M coupes with the two tone it’ll look like autozone seat covers or some tasteless Barrett Jackson resto mod.
15:05 be prepared to spend a huge amount of money for upgrading the shift knob! Straight from Porsche a new one with aluminum will set you back upwards of 1000€.. D:
They cost 40 to 50?? How come every time I see one at a carmax theyre like 75?
Maybe the non-S models are that cheap
A 991 S is around 75k right now.
Those online dealers mark up heavily. Never buy from them.
I hate people calling the 996 ugly or cost-cut. Its not. People call the 996 interior ugly, but remember, it was designed in the *early 90s.* It was meant for the 993. Its a much nicer place to be than any other car from c. 1999. Further, the exterior is more true to the "classic" 911 shape than the 997. Its proportioned better, lighter (lighter than even the 993), and smaller. Plus, if you want analogue, the 996 is best. Get a 99, and you wont even have eGas.
996 911 best 911, change my mind.
This comment is just for the metrics goose!
Goooooo metrics and letting ads run. Ahahaa
As a long time miata owner, I often go through the paces of figuring out where to go next. Corevette and porsche seem to be the only options that come up again and again. The 987.2 and 981 are also tempting. C6 Grand Sport on the corvette front
Jaguar F Type
Awesome video like always! It just wouldve been really nice to distinguish better between the 997.1 and the 997.2. The motor in the 997.1 was far from bombproof. It actually had more and more important way more expensive failures than the motor of the 996.2 which was actually really reliable
Another terrific video. Please consider a video telling us wanna be Porsche owners how to safely buy something like this.
Thanks for letting all of us check out your sweet car, Joe! Too bad it's "too good" for Mark to like 🤣
Awesome car, awesomeness review, that accidental Reverse launch was so fucking funny, the only sad thing is in australia a used one of these with 40K miles is still $120,000 or more it’s FUCKED
Well done gentlemen......good points all, as usual.....agree with Samsgarden, lack of useless tech and distracting computer screen is refreshing
Superb video ... hope I evolve my 987.2 into one of these or even the next gen in years to come!
Very informative and useful. These are THE cars to own now as they are set to go up as every good dealer out there that specialises in this generation cannot get enough of them; regularly showing 'deposit taken' , 'reserved' or 'sold' within days of being listed on-line.
As a former 997.2 S owner and a current 991.1. GT3 owner, having owned both at the same time - part of the 997 difference/feel vs the 991 is the chassis rigidity. The lack of it compared to the 991 makes the car communicate the road surface more. Along with the additional tactile feel through the steering wheel. Both great cars, but very different back to back mainly IMO attributed to the chassis stiffness. Also my 2009 S had the PCM so supposedly playing music was an option BUT the proprietary cable was missing from my car when I got it. Frankly I turn the infotainment off 100% of the time in the 998 AND the 991, preferring to focus on the driving experience rather than the techno BS the industry forces on us now to keep the bored short attention span potential buyers from feeling like they have been slighted. I can see it as a first time Porsche coupe buyer draw but for a true driving experience focused buyer it’s unnecessary and a distraction from the experience. I won’t apologize for dissing tech. Why are old Toyota cruisers and 4runners selling for such a premium now? Runaway tech and complexity has plagued most of the modern interesting AND uninteresting cars/trucks. The 997.2 sits right in that gap between too much and not enough, AND has proven itself to be a reasonable car to own out of warranty with piece of mind around reasonably priced maintenance (yes you can do the basics yourself if you like) and hopefully just an odd sensor failure here and there to deal with. GDI and carbon buildup is an issue this car has to live with but there are solutions to this as well if you end up high miling one of these
I wish my Corolla would go up in value
I drove a 997 for awhile and didnt really enjoy it - the engine feels coarse (not smooth like the BMW I6s or even a Coyote engine), the Porsche stick shifter is rubbery and the steering does not have a ton of precision or feedback. I had high hopes but left disappointed!
ILoveMyPickupTruck A guy named “I love my pickup Truck” doesn’t like 911’s...Prefers BMW’s...Row k...Good one.
They are okay. Not thrilling. But nice cars.
Is it possible to connect an iPhone or and Android with a usb cable, in order to listen to music?