ROLEX DECLARES WAR! Is This The End of Customized Watches?
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
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A lot of watch enthusiasts love the idea of customized watches. It gives a totally new and unique look to an otherwise generic watch. But one brand has stood up and said "NO", and that brand is none other than Rolex. And today, Christian discusses their latest legal fights with some of the largest watch customization services out there, and if those outcomes spell doom for the future of custom watches.
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Swiss guy here, our federal court just ruled against rolex after the appeal of Artisan de Geneve...
Please explain like Bruce Rivers the criminal lawyer would
@@Exhibitiononlynot needed, it’s Europe, it’s mostly common sense
@@Exhibitiononly No self snitching!
👏👏
@@Exhibitiononly basically ADG can continue their operations as long as they do not buy/sell the watches to modify them and sell them for profit. Their business can only operate as a customer service (client brings the watch, they charge the modifications, and then return the watch to the customer)
If the watch has been legally bought and Rolex has been paid somewhere along the line, then anyone should be allowed to do anything they want with their watch. Yes a disclaimer is required for anyone who resell these customized pieces. Disgusting practice by Rolex.
I am starting a crowd funding campaign to stop Swatch Group / Swatch from customizing their plastic watches to look like other better brands? Are you in?
Indeed, i don't like customized watches, but if it's yours you can do whatever you like.
The issue is trademark. Rolex protects anything with their brand on it. We might not like it but that's the way it works. It's the same as Porsche not wanting their brand on Singer vehicles. If the cars were pieces of shit I think most people would agree with not wanting a Porsche badge on the back.
I don’t have a problem with what people do with there watches if they are happy losing big value of there watches !
@@verynormalman They have permission
I absolutely love that in a world where there are people who will tell you that putting an OEM bracelet from another reference on a Rolex is tantamount to wearing a fake (never mind an AFTERMARKET strap 🤯) there are also people who do not give a single fuck and will mutilate the dial and replace the hands with Popeye's arms.
Agreed. I still laugh at idiots which call Rolex watches entirely made of replacement parts “fake” just because there’s no individual serial to go with the watch. Right, because every test or concept vehicle ever made without a VIN is a counterfeit. Idiots, really.
bracelet swaps are fine in my opinion anything to do with the case or dial though is off limits
@@bigbodykarate6403why? Just a different dial or other reversible modifications doesn’t make a watch fake.
It’s like saying that if you wrap a Ferrari in a different color vinyl or different wheels would make it fake.
Heck, even modifying the case doesn’t make it fake. Nothing wrong with engraving an OEM case.
@@antoombom9584 i don;t think a ferrari should be modified from what was originally envisioned. It's made unique as it is.
@@RagingUtai I'm sure Ferrari will give you a pat on the back for supporting them, after they finally give you the chance to buy the car you want after forcing you to buy 3 Californias. It actually sounds like some Rolex ADs would also like to give you a pat on the back!
As imaginative as Porsche and litigious as Ferrari, what a fun combination
Yes, but even Porsche allowed RUF to flourish under them (and Merc let AMG do their thing). The cavallino rampante seems to be slapped on everything from prophylactics to Zimmer frames these days anyway. The irony.
Rolex influence ends when people stop purchasing and putting them on the pedestal that they do.
Uh huh
It'll never happen..SSOOOOOOO many people get on their knees when it comes to Rolex. They ride the crowns D till death do them part. Ive seen a glimpse into the way these elites (board members of top brands) think. Anyone who buys their watches second hand is considered lower then dog shit to them. They laugh at how pathetic people are when it comes to kissing their feet. Seriously you be surprised how gross those people really are.
Theo’s solo podcast voice reminds me of Dennis’ podcast voice in Always Sunny and now I can’t watch T&H without hearing “TWO WARS?!”
Watch Yourself Jorge covered this quite well a few weeks back. Everyone should be allowed to customise their own watch.
Sorry, if I bought it, I can do what the F I want to do with my Rolex. Rolex didn't loan their watch to me, I BOUGHT IT! Utterly Ridiculous...
“Rolex sells luxurious utility.” I’d say Rolex is the G-wagon of the watch world. Utility that that is dressed up and sold as luxury at a luxury price. And I love em for it.
You’re a tool sir
Given their history, I could also see this as applying pressure just to then buy artisans de geneve and offer this customization as an official Rolex Service. It would make a lot of sense for Rolex and give the customized watches even more value.
They're not that creative and open-minded. I agree it would be a good idea, but they'll never do it.
interesting train of thought 👍
8:50 and the mental gymnastics begin to say. Rolex makes standard luxurious watches😂
Rolex is becoming the Ferrari of the watch world
8:33 Ngl Artisans of Geneva watches look better than standard Rolex’s. The moon phase gave me a hard one😂
It’s crazy to think that you can do what you want with your own property..
That Datejust won't stick around for long. It's absolutely gorgeous 😍
Interesting vid and commentary!!
If Rolex sues enough people, it will absolutely damage Rolex's rep, especially if Rolex sues people like Artisans de Geneve and that lady who created a children's clock called Oyster & Pop, a lawsuit that Rolex lost (maybe my details are wrong, if so, please correct me), but Rolex would really have to fuck up a lot to truly damage their brand, which is almost indomitable. Rolex must avoid acting like a bully taking advantage of working people and small business owners, and trying to stop artists and customisers from practicing their rights.
The annoyances customers had to deal with during the pandemic with getting Rolexes turned a lot of people away from the brand, so the last thing Rolex should do is give another reason for people to want to take down the leader in the watch world.
Great video. Question: where did you get your polo shirt from please!?!? Thanks
Pro-Hunter made the pvd Rolexes before Bamford copied them the following year. Personally the Pro-Hunter range was far nicer and better finished.
If I own it I own it. Difference is if you sell a modification to a product be keep that brands marking then that could be an issue, you are trading on their IP. Depends on the attitude of the original brand.
Thanks for that explanation.
W. What if a customer shows off his/her watch, after customization on FB, Insta, RUclips, etc. And tags in the customizer company? That way, Rolex doesn’t have any influence, yet, each piece will get social media presence.
Anyway, my father in law owns a ‘67 two tone date just with a fluted bezel, and jubilee bracelet, with a STUNNING aged champagne dial. Prettiest watch I’ve ever seen. So, yeah, I get your point about vintage datejusts.
I do remember looking at the Bamfords and thinking I bet Rolex take inspiration from Bamford but perhaps it is a thing that has passed. Today I imagine Bamford's are very collectable today.
Bro love you man but where is Michael
He ded
He’s pushing his own channel
You’re not supposed to use another company’s trademarks for your own promotional purposes regardless of what your business is or does.
Theo and Harris, I can't get enough of your content, so I subscribed!
I'm glad I sold all my Rolex's. This is not a brand I want to be associated with for many reasons--and these lawsuits are one of them.
the safest way to do cutomization in the future would be how Singer does Porsches. ie cutomers provide their 911 from 930 generation to 993, then Singer spices them up, the customizing company may modify a few sample units for promotional purposes but not for sale other promotional units would be customers' watches...
But Porsche just sued Singer for similar reasons... sort of... they dropped the lawsuit, afaik. They basically forced Singer to stop marketing some of their products (at least a certain way) and so considered it resolved.
Singer's my grail. Either a Targa or a DLS, which took time to grow on me. But I do wish they'd dive into AMG too, which I think would also help with any tension with Porsche.
@@EdwardViaTomato really ??? I didnt know bout that. But Singer is still The BEST redo of Porsches
Um, no - it's not the safest. Singer is now paying lawyers.
Singer was absolutely stupid for doing what they did. Remaking a car and using the Porsche logo. All they have to do is not put the logo on. That's it. The customer can install the logos later singer can not.
If Rolex sales so many watches why is it still difficult to buy one? I’ve heard someone say they made a billion plus in sales last year, how? I don’t know anyone with a new Rolex.
Bamford’s own watches are dreadful.
Interesting take. To me it seems like a slam dunk ruling that they wouldn’t be allowed to advertise.
As soon as you’re known for “oh they’re the ones who do the custom Rolexes” then you’re absolutely using another brand’s trademark to sell your own product. I don’t even think that’s up for debate.
Should you be allowed to customize though? Of course. So it makes sense that they can take orders within that scope but not sell their own products.
That Buckley dial is fire. I want a blue one. I have 3 white buckleys
They print aftermarket dials or redo dials with the Rolex trademark(s). That is the definition of counterfeiting. And that is illegal. Common sense.
Porsche & Singer are in a similar tussle.
But you didn’t explain who “Buckley” is, why it is named that, and what are the little details that make it so. I’m still curious!
Perhaps the explanation is on the cutting room floor alongside the thousand other edit clippings🙄. I mean really? Editing every sentence? Better to edit out the filler word “right”. Right?
Hi interesting video I understand Rolex not liking it when the watch is under warranty but out of warranty if someone wants to modify their watch it should be up to them. This might be devaluing the watch but that's the owner choice. but I do think a separate company modifying a Rolex and advertising it as there version has a problem with copyright as Rolex own the rights to that exact design and brand .I think the crux of this is advertising someone else brand property but if a customer came in and asked for a one of customisation I think that's fine because the company is not advertising someone else brand and the owner can do what they want with their own watch. Thanks John.
Trademark is much more than a logo -- it represents the goodwill of the of the brand owner. The Internicola Law Firm sums it up, "The "goodwill" of a trademark relates to the inherent value of your trademarks - that is the recognition of your mark among consumers and the extra earning power that it generates."
The Swiss court discussed two different issues.
1. Can a consumer customize a watch he owns. Yes. And he can hire third parties to modify it.
2. Can a company engage in the business of selling watches that it has customized. No, only with the consent of the brand owner.
Hodinkee wrote an excellent article about this on March 9, 2024 entitled, "In-Depth Swiss High Court Rules On Lawsuit Between Rolex And Customizer Artisans de Geneve."
I understand the idea of protect a brand of customisation,but the problem is not only that,for repair a rolex you have to pass by rolex,you cant now make repair your rolex by a watchshop even if they are specialist,just clean the watch because if they need a part,you have to send it to rolex,but rolex service have problems,i buy a rolex air king in 2011 she was loosing 2 minutes each day!!!so i send it to rolex under warenty,3 weeks after the watch come back and looks to be find,but somes weeks later i heard o curious noise,something was moving into the watch,after some time i go to an independant shop who repair luxury watch,they tell me rolex do that all the time,you send a rolex for something and they create a futur problem,they dont fixe volontary a piece into the movment ,for luck my rolex was not damage and they fixe it perfectly...since this mkment i dont want to take the risk to send never again my rolex to rolex maintenance...so if rolex have monopol they can do what they want with your watch and you will have to pay very much for a bad service
my guess.. Rolex end up buying the little guys and creating a "custom shop" service. It's been happening for years in the guitar world where you have the basic levels of guitars, the premium American build model then the very high end custom shop (specify as you want it) built by master craftsman.. so why not here?
What about seconde seconde?
In the car world, Porsche just sued Singer and has Ferrari has historically sued everyone that associated with or tried to modify their cars.
afaik they dropped it, making it a particularly stern C&D, I suppose. The Porsche thing seemed pretty strictly marketing related, but Ferrari seems to be a lot more uptight.
sueing doesnt mean they are legally right. anyone can start to sue anybody.
I think the Porsche suit was over the branding of a completely unique colab on an extreme off road vehicle. Which was amazing BTW.
How is this any different than people modifying cars and reselling them?
Right if first sale. If I bought it I should be able to do what. I want to it!
Hardly disagree on that branding take. The owner of the watches absolutely want it to say ROLEX on the dial after the modding. I would not sent my watch if they had to remove all branding from the watch, including case, bracelet, etc. Then it's not a modded Rolex, it's just, well it is a watch that was sometime based on a Rolex. You get me?
It's like the Patek Tiffany collabo, imagine the watch not being Patek anymore, just Tiffany, wouldn't want that to be honest.
modded rolex is a fake rolex . 9 times out of ten they werent even real watches to begin with .
Where's the limit? What you cannot do to your own watch? Is there a written law about it? Logic tells me that a modded Rolex is a Rolex, but modded.
@@TheGrenadier97 You did not the my point at all XD
But how can you print Rolex on a product without the permission of the trademark holder? Where did you get the molds for the Rolex Logo? Did Rolex provided it to you or did you made it on your own?
If you did that on your own, then you have faked the mold for the final print my friend and that is nothing better then wearing a franken watch. Think about it...
When people are saying nkuwan is a better option,I very much agree!
Collar check
I don’t agree with it either. What about the custom car or motorcycle market. What is Harley Davidson went after every company that customized a motorcycle?
A class-action lawsuit against Rolex in the US for this B.S. will surely set them straight like it did in Switzerland...
So with this kind of logic changing the tires on your car or the rims. Or you have your windows tinted.
11:41 why do you say it twice? We heard you the first time 😂
You've never stuttered? Or said something and then had a different thought and then started over?
Similar action to Porsche v Singer
It's all about the logos. Always has and will be.
My Watch My Choice
Sell me the aftermarket Rolex at 8:27 in the video all day long! Bad ass.
Does T&H sell customized or watches with aftermarket parts?
Rolex has been on a trajectory of being the so called “bad guy” for quite some time. I agree that as a Company with specific IP they should be protected when it comes to whom is “authorized” to retail their products and I understand controlling QC via a re-seller but I vehemently disagree with the argument that a customer is not allowed to have their property customized. It’s arrogant at the minimum to think ANY brand has a monopoly on anyone’s individuality. It’s overreach by every sense of the definition. Unfortunate, and just makes Rolex look bad in a time where their brand has created poor sentiment around brand pricing, availability and how customers are treated in their AD’s
Rolex, taking a page from Ferrari's play-book.
Coffee and T&H. No better way to start my Friday.
Artisans de Geneve makes some beautiful modifications
More like enhancing somewhat mediocre and mass production Rolex’s
The reason I believe Rolex doesn’t likes people customizing their products is because Rolex is widely regarded as “boring” in recent years. They also don’t to be looked at as not original. If someone is customizing their watches in unique ways it limits the things that Rolex themselves can do to their watches for the first time. For instance m, if Rolex wanted to sell “high horology” and make a Skeletonized Daytona they would not be the first to do that with their brand. And then they would also have to do it at a higher caliber than Artisans de Geneve which would be difficult for them to do.
That is my take on it. Rolex wants to be the first to bring certain variations of their watches to market, and if these customization companies have already done it, and at a higher quality than Rolex can achieve, then Rolex would be in a competition with another brand over who can make a Rolex better. And Rolex would also be looked at like they were copying Artisans de Geneve, etc.
Hey Theo , I have a Daytona booklet for sale. Do you need one?
People who consider themselves free-market capitalists or even libertarians (I am neither) and still defend companies for this kind of crazy overreach, which is becoming more and more common, especially in the tech space, should have a good look in the mirror. As far as Rolex goes, this is just another reminder of what a humourless douchebag brand they are.
Too true Im afraid.
In a nutshell Rolex is nice and non complicated waterproof sport watches!!
Everyone has a point but, if you’ve purchased the watch the decisions to edit what was purchased are on you……publishing modifications of the original design publishing is something else! IJS
social media is free and for expressing your feelings for your own followers, different that a commercial add thats designed for making money...
It really is a dangerous precedents that Rolex by lobbying, corruption and misuse of the legal system can circumvent the exhaustion principle. If you buy a watch its your to do what you want with it as long as you do not misrepresent your affiliation. Will never ever buy a Rolex ever again
rolex should buy artisans de geneve and transform it in a in house customisation service
Where’s Michael?
He’s pushing his own channel
How is this any different from modifying a luxury car?
Fark Rolex,I recently had the choice to buy a Rolex sub or Schaumburg werewolf,I didn't buy the Rolex ,then went Panerai instead of a Rolex after that
What do you expect from a company that openly service stolen watches. 🤔
The arrogance of the coronet knows no bounds. Their new slogan should be: You never own a Rolex, Jean Frédéric just lets you hold one for a steep rental fee. Void the warranty fine, but going after instacrap posts by watch choppers that’s over the top, even if it’s yack master with Popeye on it.
Turn the sh*t back on Rolex! Disclaimer? What about this one: "Before buying: please ask your Rolex dealer if being able to service a modified genuine Rolex watch." ... Doesn't look good if Rolex dealer denies such service...
The truth is, if celebrities and those with means didn't make Rolex such a big deal, no one would buy them because in my opinion Rolex are pretty plan Jane except for a few choice models. Besides, we all know that there are a lot more desirable Swiss-made watches out there rather than your grandpa's overpriced Rolex.
Only time a tell . .
Chanel is also going after upcyclings. Seems like there's something going on in the industry.
Artisans de Geneve would still be able to keep modifying Rolexes and keep the logo on the watch if its been bought by a client and then that client gives the watch to Artisans de Geneve...What they probably wont be able to do, is put these completed masterpieces on their website without "Blurring" out or covering the Rolex logo, they wont be able to "Advertise" their work with using the Rolex name, or any copyright names that Rolex have......Their website will be a little boring without "Showing off" what they have done for clients in the past, or just do it but cover up and don't show the Crown or Rolex logo......Anyone with the money to get a Rolex modified will understand why the pictures on the website have the Rolex name removed or covered up.... I cant stand Rolex, and would almost certainly never buy one, but if I'm ever in the financial position to be able to buy a Rolex, then I'd also be the position to have it made LOTS better by Artisans de Geneve. I hope they keep going, they make much nicer watches than Rolex do!
Michael??? Mumble through the gag if you’re ok.
Whats his new channel
Rolex, now making it the brand for precious little cry babies. Imagine not being able to sell your car because you modified the exhaust, or added chrome wheels and the car manufacturer sued you for it. What a joke.
has he addressed where mike or sam have gone?
I do wonder where the line is drawn… is swapping your bracelet for a strap considered wearing a fake watch? Honestly, I don’t care… if I own a watch, I’ll wear it the way I want to…
The only end result I see, if Rolex get everything they wish and completely stop the modification of their watches, is a smaller market for Rolex. I think some people really will take their money elsewhere. Somone who really wants a moonphase for example is not buying themself a standard Rolex if they cant get that complication added.
Will that hurt Rolex's bottom line? No. Will Rolex care? Probably not but that person might think twice before buying Rolex's for their stunt dubbles after they film their next blockbuster. They might buy everyone a Patek instead and Rolex loose that awesome story.
Where is Michael? 😢
I always assumed that these watches would be seen as essentially fakes in the eyes of the law, if it ever came to it. No matter how good they are, at the end of the day it uses parts not made by Rolex which say Rolex on them. I am very surprised to see these offered on sites like Chrono24 by dealers...
A fake is only a fake if you call it an original, i.e. if you don't declare what it is.
It’s better when you have two people on for the over and back banter
I agree, with one of them, it is better to have them on together. We miss him. But for the other, unfortunately it is addition by subtraction. And these videos flow and are much better for it.
Christian… get Michael back on the set man
He’s pushing his own channel
Rolex is like the mafia 😂😂
The last thing you want is shitty customisations popping over instagram and giving the brand a bad look. Some bad enough to be disrespectful to the legacy.
asymetric lawfare
Where is Harris these days?
George Bamford has the artist sense of a six year old with finger paints. His watches are absolutely hideous. I don’t blame Rolex one bit for wanting to stop these abominations.
If i reposted your videos with a red tint you'd be pissed
The only h'ot orology Rolex sells is Daytona.
My 1,500.00 iPhone 📲
Tells the exact time as a Rolex ..
I could purchase a Rolex but why ??
Watches are like paper money in 2024 - I don’t find it useful..
Apple 🍏 Pay
( cash issue solved )
Apple Phone
( watch issue solved)
In my opinion!!
My $150 Samsung Android phone does the same. ;-)
unfortunately, Ferrari does sue in the US
Have they? I thought they just harassed their customers with "cease & desist" and scared them off ownership, like Diplo
well as a legal owner of a watch, you are allowed to do what you want with it. same if you customise your car or the interieur of your house. imagine a stupid architect telling zou not to paint your walls white... common!
Christian is like the Anthony Fantano of watches
A guy with a prettier face just launched a new channel called Tedo and Harris. He’s mostly just reposting your old stuff and swapping your at times conservative and predictable face for his handsome mug, but if someone pays him enough he’ll modify your recent shit and also make you 6 inches taller and more muscular.
Best we can tell he hasn’t impacted your viewership, but there is definitely evidence that a measurable number of your subscribers are also subscribed to his channel.
Should you protect your brand and image?
Perfectly put. Don’t understand how so many people think this is no big deal. Modifying a Rolex is clown business, the stuff you see in the US…
I've always said that Rolex is the world's largest and most aggressive IP lawfirm... with a relatively small watch factory in the shed. This is proof.
Been collecting watches for 25 years and always steered well clear of them and will never own one (Tudor seems to be a bit more chilled however and I might dip a toe there). I have no idea why people buy into the bullshit. You're the customer, not them. I overheard someone the other day saying they had to have an "interview" before being allowed to buy one. I mean FFS!! 🙄😡
I swear the happiness I feel when #nkuwan uploads a video is beyond!!!!
Thanks for your content. BUT, it's a bit thick to blame Bamford for their ugly watches, when they were made under the customization programme. It's surely the customer's fault? And it seems fine to customize every other watch, but heaven forbid you do that to the royalty of watchmaking, Rolex.
Finally, time often customizes Rolex, PP, and Omega. Their dials can really deteriorate. So will Rolex sue Father Time or God (whichever one you believe in!)???
Rolex should have taken a similar approach as Ferrari, Ferrari blacklist the owner for either changing the colour or modifying the engine because ultimately it's the owners decision and not the company doing the customisation.