I think there's a lot of hard truths people have a hard time dealing with. For example, for all the hate Rolex gets (and deserve) there is NOBODY even close that has the brand recognition that Rolex has. And I think for a lot of people that spend $7-15K on a watch care a lot more about having something with huge name pedigree than they like to admit. Its the same reason people wear the Lululemon and On Brand shoes around town. There's stuff out just as good for half the price but it doesn't signal to the world what you are wearing when they see that little Lulu brand circle or the On Shoes distinctive honeycomb sole of the shoe.
The key point in my vid about Rolex was that because Rolex is so dominant, in the eyes of a "normal consumer", all other brands are judged against the standard that is rolex. Is it as reliable (as a rolex)? Is it as much a statement (as a rolex)? Is it as accurate (as a Rolex)? Whether Rolex is objectively better doesn't matter. People look at that Omega that they know little to nothing about and inadvertently compare it to.... Rolex. That's the power of marketing .😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatchthat's also the reason why you will find more enthusiasts among people wearing non-Rolex Swiss/Japanese/German/micro watchbrands than among people wearing Rolex. They generally care less about status and they already know that Rolex is not the pinnacle of watchmaking.
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I think this may be your best video yet! Really great thesis and thoughts about all of this. I do think there is an exception, and it's Cartier (and maybe a couple of very specific models from others, like Bulgari), which has a huge reputation outside of watches. Rolex doesn't have the same kind of cache with women as it does for men, and while the customer base is smaller, it is essentially up for grabs. Cartier is better positioned for that audience with its branding than most anyone else. It doesn't have to justify itself against Rolex the same way that Omega would.
Sorta a bad take. I wear lululemon’s cause of the balance of fit and quality. Also lululemon’s are $100usd pants for men…versus these $7-10K USD watches? Ummmmm. Also men’s lululemon’s don’t have a logo as far as I know
After almost 20 years absence of wearing a watch I decided to return to watch ownership in 2023. Previously I had no clue about movements or any technical know-how of watches so I decided to properly learn about the fundamentals and differences between watches. After much research I decided to move away from battery operated watches and focus on mechanical movements. This lead me to discovering the great marriage of mechanical and quartz - no battery needed but great accuracy - and purchasing my first and only luxury watch from a brand I did not even know existed - a Grand Seiko Spring Drive. It is beautiful, it does not require a battery, it is super accurate, and no one in my circle of friends even knows what I am wearing which is perfectly fine for me as I wear the watch for my own enjoyment and no one elses.
i prefer the anonymity of wearing zenith or iwc versus the apparent flex of wearing rolex. for me, i think that grand seiko has a similar and opposite problem in that seiko, like casio, is similarly widely known among watch muggles as a cheap and cheerful brand. i just can't bring myself to spend over $5k on a watch that most would associate with the jewelry counter at macy's. there's a reason that lexus isn't just called "toyota supreme." it's just not as cool as it would be with its own unique (and relatively obscure) branding, for me. in summation: i don't want people knowing that my watch cost $5k. i also don't want people thinking that my $5k watch is a $500 watch.
@@m4ttyp4nts " in summation: i don't want people knowing that my watch cost $5k. i also don't want people thinking that my $5k watch is a $500 watch." Don't worry, non-watch people won't think either, because they won't even register the existence of the watch on your wrist. I'd go for that GS if I were you, it's enough if YOU know you have a quality product :)
@@zosothezephead837 exactly. One reason I am considering a Glashutte Senator Perpetual is that unless someone is a true enthusiast, they won’t know. And in my friend’s circle the brands known are Rolex, Omega, AP, Patek etc. No one knows any German brands.
You quickly became my favourite watch RUclipsr. Always competent, well informed, no nonsense, no hype. Just facts, observations and common sense (which is a rarity these days) garnished with a little bit of humor 👍
The allure of a ROLEX Oyster Perpetual GMT II pulled me into an AD’s shop, for the first time in my life, after retirement in 2021. I promptly got the ROLEX treatment from the AD. I instead, bought two TUDORs on the secondary market (a 1995 Prince Oysterdate Submariner and a 2021 Black Bay GMT). Regrets? Yes, they’re not ROLEXes; but, I am pleased knowing the AD will never receive any of my hard-earned money; and I spent half as much money, or less, for watches that are a good value for my money. I neither need the “approval” of a ROLEX AD, nor will I spend $100K just to be put on a waiting list for the possibility of buying a single, new ROLEX watch someday. You made a great video; and, I look forward to seeing more of them.
I have never understood why people get in such an uproar. I put my name down, go about my life, and if they call they call- I’m not going to let it dominate my life like a girl without a date before Prom.
And some cats too. I woke up in the middle of the night one time and my friend's cat was very gently trying to take my silver ring off of my finger. LOL! The little stinker...
Heehee, true. I've actually learned how to put a mirror finish on stainless steel, so, sozatso polishing--or whatever it's called--adorns my travel mug now. (was a big job, phew)
I bought a Grand Seiko. It's the only watch I own that cost over $600. Frankly, I would be embarrassed to wear a Rolex. I would consider an Omega or an Oris or a Monta or a Christopher Ward, but Grand Seiko was such a deal I went to it first. Especially right now with the yen at 158 per dollar. Grand Seiko is an incredible steal for Americans right now if you buy directly from Japan, even with the import tax.
Buy what you like. Best advice ever. I had the Speedy and SM300, because they were iconic, did not pull at my heart string. My Zeniths on the other hand, "flaws" and all, I look forward to wearing them and puts a smile on my face every time. Just because marketing got me in the door, the watches are what will ultimately make me stay.
I chose the SM 300 over the Speedy. The decision took the best part of a year, but every time I see a Speedy I question whether I made the right decision.
In my experience, only watch brand that was recognized and commented among non-watch people (35+ years) is Casio Vintage series and G Shock. At one party I wore Casio 53W. That watch put smile on the face of people who were there with the SUB, golden President and AP RO. Great channel BTW.
I was actually that first time luxury watch buyer who didn't know all that much about watches, but wanted something really nice from a famous Swiss brand. I was put off by Rolex _very_ quickly, mainly by the shitty attitude of AD's, but also because they seemed way overpriced compared to other brands in the same quality bracket. Also, heretical as it sounds, I just find their designs kind of "meh" - nothing wrong with it, but not interesting either. Cartier also didn't do it for me, although I do like the Santos, it lacked some features that I really wanted, like an open caseback (with a nice movement to look at), and lume. Grand Seiko designs are just not for me, though I do recognise their high quality. I like Zenith quite a lot, also some Breitlings, but at the end, I found that the brand that really ticked all the boxes on my list for a "one luxury watch" was Omega. Haven't regretted the decision, I think they are pretty much the brand that tries to cater for the most tastes and desires. For some that may be a negative (not such a clear identity, too big catalog), but for me, who's not a collector, it's a big plus: they will give me what I want, not what I'm _supposed_ to want.
I felt exactly the same way, ended up with aqua terra 38mm, blue dial. GS Skyflake was my huge dilema, but was feared will not look right on my 16.5cm wrist.
Get a JLC. The watch markers watch, the God father of horology. Producing movements for AP, Patek, VC for years. The most complicated movements for the most well known watch models. The top dogs of watch brand names/horology. JLC is subtle, classy, robust, iconic, highly respectable. JLC is one of the brands to have in a collection imo, can’t wait to buy my first JLC one day.
I am not a Rolex hater. I am also not beholden to them either. I do find it sad that regular buyers so often default to them and don't give other excellent brands some consideration. Seamaster 300m over a Submariner any day of the week for me 😊
Dang, this was an awesome breakdown of brand perception and quality. I've owned watches from Omega, Tudor, Rolex, Seiko and many others. And for me, the best watch I own that I wear the most is my Casio G-Shock GW-5000U. I've started to slowly sell off my expensive watches because I just don't care about perceived quality or brand perception--real or fake--anymore. I just need a tough watch, that always works and is insanely accurate. That being said, I always love videos like these that breakdown consumer psychology. Very well done.
Hi- I purchased a Chopard Happy Sport a few years ago. I'd like to know more about watches and the next best option I should consider. This channel is fascinating. I am looking forward to learning more. Thank you.
Another great one. Thank you. Question. I’m sure some brands know their bracelets are lacking. Why is it that they don’t improve? For example, the reason I’ve always been deterred from pulling a trigger on an Omega SM300 is the chunky non-tapering bracelet. I’m sure some like it. But this is a reoccurring complaint by many. So we can conclude that this is an issue. No one ever complaints about a submariner bracelet.
IWC heard and updated their Mark Pilot watches with better movement and tapering bracelet. Some brands do listen while for some it’s not as easy to integrate change sue various production and supply chain concerns
Thanks. Bracelets? It's priorities and cost. Launching new and redesigned things constantly is expensive and the brands demand certainty that it will lead to better sales. Add to that, you don't want to go all in from day one, in stead spreading out your improvements to keep interest up. Innovations come slowly as a result and very rarely all at once. 😊
@@Pler1978 Not true at all. I know a few watch enthusiasts including myself that tried or owned Seamaster but moved to IWC, JLC and Tudor for better ergonomics. I sold my Seamaster for a Polaris and love it.
My friend is employed as a watch maker/ repairman by Breltling....we both own Russian Vostock(?) watches(about$60-90)... He says they last forever with NO maintenance... They are crude and i love them! They just keep running and can go 600 feet deep with no trouble! They look incredibly cheesy but being old and retired it's fun to find great value at bargain prices!
re: Grand Seiko @ 6:25 - GS's main problem is bulky and out-of-touch designs, and not necessarily identity. Many enthusiasts swear by GS but end up buying Rolex, because GS watches are too dressy, too thick & too big. I want an OP36-like GADA design by GS, but what options do I have?
I stayed out of the commentary of the aesthetic of GS models, sticking in stead to just the signifiers of "luxury". Having said that I don't completely disagree with you. Their sporty options are often on the bulky side both in terms of objective size but also in the way they present themselves 😊
The question of 'worth' is one I struggle with all the time - what does a more expensive watch mean? Is this purchase a luxury I can enjoy or am I simply buying into a hype machine for the physical equivalent of NFT's? Adding in servicing costs for mechanical watches and it's one hell of a money sink. The other aspect you mentioned - the 'identity' of the brand and how it changes how customers view it / themselves - I'm not one for that kind of marketing. This is why I don't think I'll ever buy a watch worth more than $1,000. Yet as an enthuasiast I can easily see a future where I own a box of watches worth the equivalent of a submariner. Would I be happier seeing the name Rolex or Grand Seiko on my wrist? Should I take that risk to see what's on the others side? Maybe I'm just not rich enough to play that game! Love the videos and the questions / viewpoints they bring to light. Keep up the good work!
Loved your comments on Identity. I wonder how the new Christopher Ward XII will sell at an almost $5k USD price point. Does the brand have enough Brand Identity?
Good question. It will likely sell out to enthusiasts, but I doubt it's a mass volume model. Skeleton dials are very niche - and it's not the point of the watch. The point is to demonstrate that they are serious watchmakers. That's my thinking at least😊😊
Interestingly my friends who have gone into the automotive engineering sector tell me that car manufacturers spent millions developing that satisfying thud or clunk when you open and close a car door all in an effort to sound more premium. I think that's exactly what watch companies do as well. Because we "eat with our eyes" the tinsel of quality and success matter. You are quite right my friend. Quality is highly subjective. Having never shopped at the higher level (I did buy a date just a few years ago but that's hardly high horology) I would not be able to say what is great value right now. Hope you have a great Freedom Day and an awesome weekend!
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch If only they spent more time on the rest of it they would not be ranked as low as they are in reliability survey's haha! Strange how the times have changed! Hope you have a great one Mike!
I love your analogy of the sound a car door makes on a well build car. So true! You did not mention Lexus, but I drive one and listen for that "quality thunk" every time I close the door! :).... the concept does transfer to a watch feel and quality. We are a strange bunch for sure!!!! LOL
Thanks for bringing up Lexus. I drive a 2001 LS 430 and can honestly say its the nicest car I've ever owned. Maybe it's the more high-quality mass produced car ever sold? Sadly, Lexus doesn't make cars like they used to. My GX460's overall build quality pales in comparison to my old LS.
Thank you for “opening up the casebacks” and sharing what collectors actually get from the $4-14,000 watches. Very illuminating…The other factor is after market resale value, even though watches are not investments, which reflects demand.
I love your …”Days since last watch purchase” counter, Mike-reminds me of the “Days since last accident” health & safety signs that are commonplace in factories and warehouses in North America, in my experience at least 😅
Mike -- i feed on the other end of the pond from your target audience -- my dozen-ish watch portfolio is heavy on San Martins and a few Cronos -- but the principles that you cite at about 8:30 into this video are universal . . . except, there may be cases where "texture, depth, and detail" actually get i the way of function. Let me explain: A key benefit of lower priced watches is always having "horses for courses" in use. My dress watches are a pair of Datejust homages, one stainless and one two toned (selected depending on my suit and cuff links) both of which were customized with my Pentagon office code (oops, another thing that mega-dollar watches won't permit). Both have lovely dials; the San Martin example also has a rich mother-of-pearl surface too. So they meet "texture, depth and detail" . . . but not as much as my Nautilus three sub-register calendar homage with an AP-type waffle surface. That example almost defines texture, depth and detail. BUT i don't always want to self-evidently reek quality; sometimes you just want to tell-the-time-atta-glance. For that my bronze Oris Sixty Five homage with a flat black matte dial, 12-3-6-9 face and contrasting gold heavily lumed saber hands works perfectly. No applied indices here: the lume is painted on the dial. The whole thing does its job well in a casual use context . . . and somehow sparks more interest than my Datejusts. It may be that the bronze works with the dial and leather strap (which few divers are worn with) to communicate idiosyncratic "tool-y". Oh yes, i got that one customized too . . . -- gary ray
For me - whatever feeds the watch passion is good and sometimes we get blinded by the john mayer levels of cash floating around. I don't own any San Martins currently but have dipped my toes occasionally into them and into Steinhart. Sometimes that "rolex logo" means something but the funny thing is, when the logo is different you are actually forced to consider if you like the design and not just the brand, which I think is quite refreshing 😃😃
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch i ended up in the homage end of the market almost involuntarily: i had Tissot and Rado dress watches, but found myself in meetings with Eastern European Ministers and deputy Ministers; coin-of-the-realm there are Rolex watches of course. I felt a bit uncomfortable and could never afford those, but these homages with customized dials go under-the-radar. Nevertheless, for aesthetic reasons such as you cite -- the homage cases and dials put my earlier watches in the weeds -- i found that i really liked them (although for my use the C07 movement would be better). Another negative: i have to be my own importer and service manager . . . -- gary ray
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I'm not sure what I expected the price to be but definitely not that. I suppose this will have to be purchased made once I have some property to my name and rental incomes
Love your videos, I have a reason to celebrate and looking to get my first luxury watch. What i want or am looking for is likea Dressy style chronograph; likea Junghans Meister or on the opposite pricerange and stylerange a Speedmaster. How do you feel that Longines falls into the brands category .?
I don’t often comment but this is very well thought-through content. Intellectually, I like Grand Seiko but can’t work up the enthusiasm to pull the trigger. I think Rolex is a bit of a safe choice and overplayed but would pick up a green dial Datejust at retail in the unlikely event the opportunity presented itself. Funny old world.
What a great video. I particularly like the way you analyse the watches with a sublime blend of logical and philosophical factors. Perhaps I can humbly suggests that you do another video analysing the wearers of such watches eg: how many buy these watches just so to impress other people and how many buy because it is a quality watch? And how to tell the difference between the two groups of buyers? Thanks.
Man you have explained why the Tudor Pelagos FXD isn’t a good seller. It appeals to the enthusiast community BUT the average buyer is extremely turned off by a $4k watch without a bracelet! Makes a lot of sense.
Quickly, and you sir are one of my go to’s of RUclips. In the watch world I have had so many different RUclipsrs that I watched, but now you have risen to the top!!! Love your pure unadulterated truth, candor and no sugar coating the facts. Thank you sir. 😊
Great discussion. I traded both my SS date just and my wife’s 2 tone datejust for 2 breitlings that my 2 boys wanted about 10 years ago. They were graduating college and it was almost a straight trade - early 90s Rolex for brand new breitlings. Now they just wish I’d given them the Rolexes!
Thanks a lot for your very interesting thoughts. I agree completly. Years ago I started with Casio and Citizen. Over Tissot, Maurice Lacroix, Junghans, Glycine etc. I came to TAG Heuer, Breitling and Rolex. Conclusion: ALL the watches work precisely since years and have a really good quality. The only difference is, that with a Breitling or Rolex you can show the the world what a "successful" guy you are. Now, I have started to sell the expensive ones and I will go back to my Casios and Tissots and use the watches for what they are really made: to tell me the time....
Mike, just came across your videos, probably by algorithm. And I find them all exceptional. I would not call myself a bona fide enthusiast however I do have a couple of omega’s, Cartier, several Hamilton‘s all mechanical. My speedy is my favorite and I love it for what it is not what it represents. Interesting though that my go to weekend watch is my Casio Marlin. The thing looks incredible and is hard to beat for US$55.
I’m surprised the Grand Seiko fans haven’t jumped on you for calling it ‘sterile’ to most mid and upper class looking for their luxury piece! 😊 I do agree with the branding perception, until you become a watch enthusiast, you wouldn’t look at the brand sadly. It’s well made, but sort of clinical - like a Toyota and Lexus. They do lack that luxury perception outside Japan, however I do think their market positioning now in the US is really geared towards the enthusiasts market, which is quite unique. What is your take on that? Great videos by the way, you’re one on the best watch channels out there with honest no nonsense approach. Keep it up, I’m now your avid supporter. 😊
I am a Watch enthusiast and love to heard people who know more about these holy then me, you are definily a person with a high knowledge about these ! thank you so much for teaching all of us!!
I think things are changing with Grand Seiko… lots of retailers are willing to invest in while GS boutiques now as opposed to the previous model where GS was a sub section of the Seiko section in a shop that also sold many other brands. This implies that there now is an emotional attachment to the brand. It is not just for enthusiasts as you said.
Agree to some extent - GS are going big in terms of trying to convince people they are worth a look, and in some areas they are definitely succeeding 😀
Great video, as usual. In this space, I am 100% Rolex. My father and grandfather loved watches, and Rolex was the grail. When I graduated from med school, I was gifted a Rolex. When my daughter was born I gave my wife a Rolex. I have Omegas and Tudors, but Rolex has that special meaning. The watch that I am now saving for is the Santos de Cartier. Always wanted one, and as a Brazilian, the connection to Alberto Santos Dumont plays a massive role in the decision. As for you, keep up the good work.
I don't know? I don't even own a watch but I'm deep in the obsession the last couple of months and I'm in the hunt. The Grand Seiko evokes all kinds of emotion in me. The dials and Spring Drive call to me. However, maybe not the best choice for my first mechanical watch 😊 I'll go under our around 1k. So most likely Hamilton or CW. Maybe I'll step up and get a Tudor....on the next one. Then the Grand Seiko 😊
Speaking about the average buyer: Once upon a time I was workin in the car claims department of an insurance broker. One day I spoke to some lady on the phone, and whilst I had already learned at that point, that it can't be expected that people would be able to differentiate between the liablitiy and the casco insurance (which already sounds easy enough for me: liablity is for everyone elses damage, casco is your own) - this "remarkable" lady made me learn that you indeed can own and drive a car yet do not have any clue what the COMPULSORY liablity insurance does at all. So, she needs to take one out, she doesn't get her licence plate without one, but she didn't know what it does. THAT is indeed the level of insight the average Joe/Jane will have when walking into a watch store. Don't wanna step on anybody's toes here, but imho people can be incredibly ... well I don't know how to call it. Let's put it mildly: They think from 12 to midday and often show no interest of having a further glimpse into things. Sometimes, I am deeply worried about humanity as a whole. :D
As always your intellect and analysis shines through. In addition to the content your delivery is so enjoyable to watch and listen to. Thanks for all the effort and thought you put into your videos. Cheers!🎉
I bought Pelagos. I brought it home and finally admitted to myself it was too light. Incredible quality etc, but the weight was a massive turn off for the reason you mentioned. It went back within a day.
I’ll be honest, as someone in this upper mid space looking to buy their “I made it “ watch, I do have to admit that it is very difficult to discount the icon factor. This will be my third largest purchase of my life and yes, it would be nice for people to know what I’m wearing.
It’s brave of u to admit this. I mean, if u are a multimillionaire then sure overpay. If u r trying to impress shallow people, that is okay. U may be in an industry or a dating scene where this has value. But I am guessing u r an intelligent guy. U might be further ahead wearing a watch that creates a bit of intrigue. Someone sees it, u get a compliment and asks u about the brand. I am a casino dealer in Detroit. It’s a parade of watches north of 10k. Many of these men understand watch value. A Rolex date just won’t impress many. However, I must admit. I do like Rolex , but there prices r insane. 20 years ago I was making good money Almost bought a sub mariner for 4k, or the iwc fleiger model for $2500. I should have bought the iwc. The days of getting a watch like that r over 😂😂😂
@@chevy4x466 this will probably discredit anything I say about watches, but the Tudor royal 38 in blue. Went to go get on the waitlist for an OP but tried this on and loved it. Still do about 6 months later.
@@chevy4x466 this may seem me lose credibility, but the Tudor royal 38 in blue. Went to go put my name in for an OP and tried this on and loved the way it fit and looked. Honestly love this watch.
Someone needs to send this video to the Bremont team. It perfectly illustrates why their new line is such an error. Just as the brand formed its identity and found its audience through the story they told - it’s destroyed in a week.
Funny things is - I cut a whole segment from this video diving into Bremont, discussing those exact challenges. Their identity is “off” under the new ceo and for a relatively expensive watch brand they don’t convey luxury enough. Saw them at watches at wonders and was dissapponted with quite a few of the models Cheers 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch i hope this means an upcoming episode for bremont, to hopefully knock the ceo off his high horse (or at least some sense into him) so Mr Davide can right the ship before impending shipwreck, which absolutely nobody finds joy in
Interesting re Bremont - assume previous model not working (never made a profit) and new VC money wanted a return - Bremont needs a new wider audience and I think this will disrupt the existing market - brave move.
The faux military connection is a big fail, giving your product to a bunch of pilots does not make it a brand of choice, I served 25 years in the RAF and can categorically state that pilots will grab anything for nothing.
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch hey Mike, I’m a recently “early” retired ER Doc (now a stay at home dad) & was wondering what your day job is (since it isn’t watch reviews on YT)…you obviously don’t have to answer if you don’t want & I’ll understand 😊
about hublot , i have the classic fusion , the rubber/ leather strap is there cuz the watch is titanium and adds weigh to the watch, the watch is 42 but looks feels and wears as 38 because of the polishing , it makes the watch looks smaller but also giving it a good shine, moreover the bezel shines so good and somehow titanium brakes the light and gives it a red shine ( dots here and there ) like a diamond. i wish i could send you a photo of the watch but all you will see is my iphone :D the watch has amazing polish , about the movement , i roll my eyes so much, when you compare it with 1k watch :D first of all breitling have actually the same movement as the cosc CW watches , and breitling are almost the same price as hublot. actually the classic fussion has 2892 which is actually one step higher than that in the breitling , especially in the colt and the older models . i wish you were right and my watch had that 2824 like in the CW cuz then i could fix my watch much cheaper. i had the fix the automatic winding , the part for fixing it cost more than a new 2824. is true hublot makes you look like an arrogant a$$hole :D but rolex makes you look like a cheep :D everyone has one, either replica homage or original...
At a party, I noticed that 8 out of the 10 male guests had a Rolex on their wrists including me. That prompted me to explore alternatives to the usual suspects or at least the more rarified items in the catalogues of the usual suspects. This caused me to seek out independents like Habring2, Stefan Ketelaars, RGM and the new Danish brand Arcanaut. My Omega references currently include the Seamaster Bullhead Chronograph (which along with the Ploprof which I have also owned) is one of their eccentric references. Pre-2017 Parmigiani and Speake-Marin (with a Vaucher movement) references are in my watchbox. I seldom run into anyone who is wearing what I am 😂wearing and I like that.
In Denmark everyone just hypes up Rolex like there is nothing else. I wouldn’t want a Rolex in this country looking at how many people get robbed of them. Referring to the Facebook groups. 😢 But seems like you got way more into watches and found what you really liked 😊 I am glad I found other brands too, and have completely forgotten about Rolex.
I had an interesting thought in my head the other day. Based on volumes - you are more likely to bump into a person wearing a Rolex than you are wearing a Tag Heur. Rolex sells 1.2 mill a year. Tag. Half that. If you want to be unique, different or appear exclusive - Rolex is counterintuitively actually not that exclusive, despite waiting lists at the ad... 😊😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch moral of the story: Wear a Tag, to stand out. Me, I'm acquiring a 20-year old 2000 series automatic, which should put me in rarefied company, indeed 🙃
Great video, Great analysis, interesting and knowledgeable point of view. Thanks you. You did at multiple time talked about men hours works, but mostly as an illustration of your point of analysis. I will be very interested to have a full video on that subject. In one of your previous video you mention a report that was indication men hour works average per brand would it be possible to have the reference of it as a reply. Thanks again for the unique point of view you.
I can't imagine in what universe i would pay $10-20k for a Rolex that i have to send in every 5 years for weeks or months for"cleaning and maintenance" at a cost of thousands of dollars. That's not my measure of value or prestige. A few years ago, I thought about and discovered I wear that Rolex more than 3-4x a year. I didn't hate then but for me, is a waste of resources.
I think shiny is cheap, I like it as an addition, to show nice edges and lines, but not as the main finishing. The same, I avoid shiny ceramic bezel inserts.
The high end audio references are spot on. The feel of the knobs on a preamp are important too. The look of a pearl paint finish on Wilsons look like money too.
I love these types of videos you do. These are the conversations I have with myself all the time when I’m thinking about the next watch I want to buy. For me it’s Rolex. I have 3 Rolexes and never questioned the purchases. I’ve always questioned the other watch brands I’ve bought(Tudor, breitling ,omega) and have subsequently sold most of them. The bottom line is Rolex is the best watch you can buy at retail. The fit, finish, accuracy, and value retention are second to none.
Some people in the comments would disagree that rolex is the best you can buy at retail. I would generally say, that they likely are with Omega more often than not being pretty much equal most of the time. Sometimes a little better. Sometimes a little under. But whether Rolex once just sourced all their stuff and their movements aren't high end finished. Fact is. They work for ages. The watches look good and the QC holds up. We can hate on them all we want, but pretending the watches are not objectively well made is a mistake 😊😊
For me and my budget...I just love everything that longines brings to the table. So many different models with such rich history, all affordable, and most hit above their price range. Im curious, what's your opinion on longines?
I wonder how independent brands fit into this model - Louis Erard, Anordain, Habring. Does the price to quality range change compared to mainstream brands? I’d assume you’d get a lot more watch for the money.
Not sure you get more watch, but you don't pay as much for branding. So the price - value ratio is much more appealing potentially. Check out my video about Monta which covers the topic and the video "finding the best watches at 500...". Cheers 😊
Another problem for Grand Seiko, at least in the U.S., is the presence of the name Seiko. It’s like if Toyota had called their premium line “Grand Toyota” instead of Lexus. Seiko needs to change the name to change the perception.
I think a watch is about the complete package, solid bracelet, case, movement etc. That’s all present with Rolex like you said in this video. It’s also the reason why I think Tudor and Longines will be taking a lot of market share in the lower/middle segment in the years to come. Every single new releases of these two have upgrades and eliminate the weaknesses the previous models had. Which is why they are getting closer to that complete package.
Nico is powerless. Just like PewDiePie is powerless. this cult of personality has little boots-to-the-ground tangibility, and “if you know you know” is another way of saying something is esoteric… or worthless, speaking pragmatically.
Best advice: "Buy what you like." It applies to all toys. Another awesome video. Past $4000 you're paying for many things such as name, hand made or not, the metals used, diamonds, and marketing and scarcity BS, you are NOT paying for haute horlogerie.
Not really, GS has nothing that compares to a DJ in hand, as pointed out this vid (let alone a President), Wear a DJ and everyone will recognize its luxury. GS tends to be chunky, with cheap feeling bracelets.
For me. Grand Seiko is about nuance and detail. It's a delicate fine wine for the trained palette. Rolex is an Australian Shiraz. Full of flavour but also sometimes a little overwhelming. Both good. Very different 😊😊
Great observations, especially regarding Grand Seiko; however, I think Grand Seiko has better actual quality versus its perceived quality. I ignored them until in hand at an AD. Now I have 2 of them, while I'll get around to "a" Rolex, probably a Cellini date in gold and call it a day. Don't need their status and already have Omega and tool watchs.
I never liked Rolex, really. The one that appeals my taste more is the 1908, which is extremely expensive for what it is. But one day I was surprised to see Roger W. Smith, one of the most important watchmakers in the world, showing the two Rolex he has in his collections. He basically says that Rolex is an excellent, well-made watch; and that no one probably needs more than that. Of course, i would never buy a Rolex, even if I had the money, because spending 14 or 21K in a watch is just absolutely crazy. But I have to recognize that the Rolex you show at the beguinning of this video (Rolex 1908, 2024 platinum version, baby blue dial) left me speechless. It is a beautiful watch at the humble price of 40K.
Love my submariner. They are desired for a reason. And it’s not that crazy when you think that the watch will still be worth something 20 years from now.
Yep and you can get one no problem because at $40K there are so many watches that make the 1908 look like hot garbage. Rolex can’t design a non-sports watch. They’ve always been horrible at it and always will be.
Really a great video and a great explanation of perceived value. However I wonder about the conclusion that in this price range one would have to do the most due diligence. Isn't it the opposite? As you explained you can't really objectively go wrong with either of these brands so one could or maybe should just buy what they feel most attracted to? No need to compare movements or clasps or anything then?
It depends. The reason I say do your due dilligence depends on the fact that the prioritise so differently. If movements are important to you, then Cartier is not (in that range) going to be important to you. If finishing and intricacy is important to you JLC is going to outperform Rolex, but Rolex has the more robust watches. All the watches will be "good" but the trade offs can be meaningful, and just buying based on brand perception can lead to dissappointment. Having said that: No. There's not a huge risk of buying junk in this range 😃😃
There are a lot of people who prefer to wear something understated and not obviously expensive as supposed to solid gold rolexes. A good friend of mine traded in his rolexes for omega and panerai and told me he was a lot happier not getting the kind of attention the rolex watches would inevitably garner. On the other hand, another buddy loves wearing his 36 mm vint datejust and nothing else.
Looking around the office today, I have seen more or less nothing but submariners and datejusts (of the people that give a shirt about mechanical watches). They are great watches, but they are the safe choice. Other brands will deliver more nuance... I think that's the strength of somehting like GS. 😊😊
Nice overview. I understand the need of brands to make money, but most Swiss brands seem to have transitioned from quality focus to luxury focus at a very steep increase in pricing, reducing those products perceived value to me especially. My Swiss watch experience with Cartier Santos x2, Tag Heuer F1 x4, and one IWC between my wife & myself was mediocre at best. Most durable, best time keeping was a 1980 - $150 Seiko diver.
I really like formex. Very good brackets. Cosc cert and interesting dials. I just bought the black ceramic leggere and the meteorite dial. I also think CW make great watches. Attractive. Cosc certified. I just bought the blue limited edition skeletonized twelve. 2 barrels w 120 hr power reserve. Both companies are loaded w value. U get a lot of watch for the money and they so far have stayed interesting on my wrist
Many good points here. Thank you. I winced a bit on your Grand Seiko remarks, not to disagree but rather because I think there is more to it. What counts as luxury is to a larger or lesser extent culturally dependent. As you note, while there are objective measures, there is much that is subjective. GS is a Japanese luxury brand originating from and primarily serving a culture traditionally more reserved in showing wealth, reflecting a way of life that frowns on "look at me" expressions of success. Yes, to my Western eyes they look less luxury (I own 2) yet when handled they compare well to my Rolexes (I also own 2). And, yes, this is a problem for GS as it seeks to challenge the Swiss for Western eyeballs and wallets. I appreciate them because they represent another, different approach to luxury yet maintain a superior standard of craftsmanship and excellence in watchmaking. So, to your larger point of what counts as luxury (and much of this can be applied to beauty), broad statements about heft, shininess, etc., should be caveated, methinks, at least as they apply to GS. All the best.
@@MrZanzibar123 Oh, not sure about that. I think you'd have to be an experienced watchmaker to tell for sure, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if they do. I think they are currently one of the best values in luxury watchmaking, that's for sure. Rather than quality and craftsmanship, I think the main differences are style and and design. Either you like them or you don't which is fair enough. All the best.
@@scoobertdoobert743 They are not without their bling, that's for sure. But compared to a fluted bezel and jubilee bracelet, overall they seem somewhat more understated than Rolex's, imho.
I agree with you. As I said in the video "Grand Seiko does not live up to the western definitions of luxury". Sincre GS is very clearly gunning for especially the US market, I do see them struggle more than they would like to. I would also argue that a middle eastern context is also not great for GS, but eastern cultural sensibilities? Agree. GS is more aligned with those values 😊😊😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Very nice response, Mike. Thank you. This idea of cross-cultural challenges for brands who seek to market globally is an interesting topic itself. Watches are a useful focus for thinking about the subjectivity of aesthetics and the role of history in defining what luxury or beauty looks like. For good or ill, the Swiss, primarily Rolex, have played an outsized role in actually defining what luxury watches should look like for the mass market. Deviations from the Rolex "standard," as you point out, are rare. Very interesting stuff! All the best!
Although I mostly collect San Martin, Heimdallr, Steeldives etc. as they are within my retirement spend range I have Swiss watches in my collection from Hamilton, Certina, Rado and Glycine and nice pieces from Seiko and Bulova. Even if money was not an issue I would still gravitate towards watches rarely seen. One sees way fewer Breitlings or Tudors in the wild than Rolex or Omega. Great talk as always.
I would be interested to see a comparison of Blancpain and Chopard. Both brands produce very high-quality watches, but lose a lot of their value on the second-hand market. Which of the two do you think has the better quality and better value?
6 months late and challenged with this. Glad I watched it through, as you understand the concern. The value is defined where? In the market with prices? Quality metrics like accuracy and flatness/sparkle. But it really is in making you smile.
I think there's a lot of hard truths people have a hard time dealing with. For example, for all the hate Rolex gets (and deserve) there is NOBODY even close that has the brand recognition that Rolex has. And I think for a lot of people that spend $7-15K on a watch care a lot more about having something with huge name pedigree than they like to admit. Its the same reason people wear the Lululemon and On Brand shoes around town. There's stuff out just as good for half the price but it doesn't signal to the world what you are wearing when they see that little Lulu brand circle or the On Shoes distinctive honeycomb sole of the shoe.
The key point in my vid about Rolex was that because Rolex is so dominant, in the eyes of a "normal consumer", all other brands are judged against the standard that is rolex.
Is it as reliable (as a rolex)? Is it as much a statement (as a rolex)? Is it as accurate (as a Rolex)? Whether Rolex is objectively better doesn't matter. People look at that Omega that they know little to nothing about and inadvertently compare it to.... Rolex. That's the power of marketing .😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatchthat's also the reason why you will find more enthusiasts among people wearing non-Rolex Swiss/Japanese/German/micro watchbrands than among people wearing Rolex. They generally care less about status and they already know that Rolex is not the pinnacle of watchmaking.
They (see previous comment) are wearing those watches primarily for themselves and not for others.
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I think this may be your best video yet! Really great thesis and thoughts about all of this.
I do think there is an exception, and it's Cartier (and maybe a couple of very specific models from others, like Bulgari), which has a huge reputation outside of watches. Rolex doesn't have the same kind of cache with women as it does for men, and while the customer base is smaller, it is essentially up for grabs. Cartier is better positioned for that audience with its branding than most anyone else. It doesn't have to justify itself against Rolex the same way that Omega would.
Sorta a bad take. I wear lululemon’s cause of the balance of fit and quality. Also lululemon’s are $100usd pants for men…versus these $7-10K USD watches? Ummmmm. Also men’s lululemon’s don’t have a logo as far as I know
After almost 20 years absence of wearing a watch I decided to return to watch ownership in 2023. Previously I had no clue about movements or any technical know-how of watches so I decided to properly learn about the fundamentals and differences between watches. After much research I decided to move away from battery operated watches and focus on mechanical movements. This lead me to discovering the great marriage of mechanical and quartz - no battery needed but great accuracy - and purchasing my first and only luxury watch from a brand I did not even know existed - a Grand Seiko Spring Drive. It is beautiful, it does not require a battery, it is super accurate, and no one in my circle of friends even knows what I am wearing which is perfectly fine for me as I wear the watch for my own enjoyment and no one elses.
Absolutely 👍. All the talk about polished, shiny surfaces that look more impressive - to who?! I don't wear my watches to impress anyone but myself.
i prefer the anonymity of wearing zenith or iwc versus the apparent flex of wearing rolex. for me, i think that grand seiko has a similar and opposite problem in that seiko, like casio, is similarly widely known among watch muggles as a cheap and cheerful brand. i just can't bring myself to spend over $5k on a watch that most would associate with the jewelry counter at macy's. there's a reason that lexus isn't just called "toyota supreme." it's just not as cool as it would be with its own unique (and relatively obscure) branding, for me.
in summation: i don't want people knowing that my watch cost $5k. i also don't want people thinking that my $5k watch is a $500 watch.
@@m4ttyp4nts "
in summation: i don't want people knowing that my watch cost $5k. i also don't want people thinking that my $5k watch is a $500 watch."
Don't worry, non-watch people won't think either, because they won't even register the existence of the watch on your wrist. I'd go for that GS if I were you, it's enough if YOU know you have a quality product :)
@@zosothezephead837 exactly. One reason I am considering a Glashutte Senator Perpetual is that unless someone is a true enthusiast, they won’t know. And in my friend’s circle the brands known are Rolex, Omega, AP, Patek etc. No one knows any German brands.
I cannot leave home without a watch on my wrist, I almost feel naked 😂
You quickly became my favourite watch RUclipsr. Always competent, well informed, no nonsense, no hype. Just facts, observations and common sense (which is a rarity these days) garnished with a little bit of humor 👍
I feel the same. Spot on comment.
I try - thanks for the feedback 😊😊
Agreed. Excellent videos.
Absolute king this guy!
Damn. You just outdid 10+ years and 100+ RUclipsrs with this content. Great video!!
That's high praise - Thank you 😊😊😊
Really enjoy these, especially as I always follow the money for motivations, thanks
The allure of a ROLEX Oyster Perpetual GMT II pulled me into an AD’s shop, for the first time in my life, after retirement in 2021. I promptly got the ROLEX treatment from the AD. I instead, bought two TUDORs on the secondary market (a 1995 Prince Oysterdate Submariner and a 2021 Black Bay GMT). Regrets? Yes, they’re not ROLEXes; but, I am pleased knowing the AD will never receive any of my hard-earned money; and I spent half as much money, or less, for watches that are a good value for my money. I neither need the “approval” of a ROLEX AD, nor will I spend $100K just to be put on a waiting list for the possibility of buying a single, new ROLEX watch someday. You made a great video; and, I look forward to seeing more of them.
"They're not Rolexes"
Well no, but actually yes.
I have never understood why people get in such an uproar. I put my name down, go about my life, and if they call they call- I’m not going to let it dominate my life like a girl without a date before Prom.
You are truly my favourite watch RUclipsr. Your views are always informed, non-sensational and logical! 👍👍
I concur
Very kind words, thank you 😊
“shiny surfaces attract crows”
Great line, I hope you a good chuckle on that.
I get attention with my $200 metal cased Casio and zero from my GS or vintage timepieces. Shiny definitely attracts crows.
And some cats too. I woke up in the middle of the night one time and my friend's cat was very gently trying to take my silver ring off of my finger. LOL! The little stinker...
I was excessively proud of myself for that comment, yes... 😂😂😂
Heehee, true. I've actually learned how to put a mirror finish on stainless steel, so, sozatso polishing--or whatever it's called--adorns my travel mug now. (was a big job, phew)
@@verynormalmanIndeed, the crow(er)s are the Rolex wearers 😁
I bought a Grand Seiko. It's the only watch I own that cost over $600. Frankly, I would be embarrassed to wear a Rolex. I would consider an Omega or an Oris or a Monta or a Christopher Ward, but Grand Seiko was such a deal I went to it first. Especially right now with the yen at 158 per dollar. Grand Seiko is an incredible steal for Americans right now if you buy directly from Japan, even with the import tax.
I'm there with you, education and preferences. Rolex has a strong brand and social identity and it is not for everyone.
I bought a new GS SGBA461 direct from Japan as well. I was able to buy a used Tudor Glamour and a Hamilton Khaki with my savings on the GS.
I’ve inherited 3watches from my father and uncles who passed. A Rolex Oyster and 2 Omega Seamasters. I hands down prefer the Omega to Rolex.
I have GS, Oris, and Monta for those reasons.
I would love to check out purchasing from Japan, where would you recommend looking? Thanks
Highly polished watch cases and bracelets are a great way to display all the scratches on your watch.
that is so true 😃😃
Hah! I buy titanium so I can have none of the polishing and still get scratches!
It’s like having a black car. If you can’t be bothered to polish it and take care of it, don’t buy it.
Buy what you like. Best advice ever. I had the Speedy and SM300, because they were iconic, did not pull at my heart string. My Zeniths on the other hand, "flaws" and all, I look forward to wearing them and puts a smile on my face every time. Just because marketing got me in the door, the watches are what will ultimately make me stay.
I do just that but you’d be surprised how many people can’t believe I have the audacity to have a Movado, and to have it next to my Hulk no less.😊
I chose the SM 300 over the Speedy. The decision took the best part of a year, but every time I see a Speedy I question whether I made the right decision.
In my experience, only watch brand that was recognized and commented among non-watch people (35+ years) is Casio Vintage series and G Shock. At one party I wore Casio 53W. That watch put smile on the face of people who were there with the SUB, golden President and AP RO.
Great channel BTW.
😅
I was actually that first time luxury watch buyer who didn't know all that much about watches, but wanted something really nice from a famous Swiss brand. I was put off by Rolex _very_ quickly, mainly by the shitty attitude of AD's, but also because they seemed way overpriced compared to other brands in the same quality bracket. Also, heretical as it sounds, I just find their designs kind of "meh" - nothing wrong with it, but not interesting either. Cartier also didn't do it for me, although I do like the Santos, it lacked some features that I really wanted, like an open caseback (with a nice movement to look at), and lume. Grand Seiko designs are just not for me, though I do recognise their high quality. I like Zenith quite a lot, also some Breitlings, but at the end, I found that the brand that really ticked all the boxes on my list for a "one luxury watch" was Omega. Haven't regretted the decision, I think they are pretty much the brand that tries to cater for the most tastes and desires. For some that may be a negative (not such a clear identity, too big catalog), but for me, who's not a collector, it's a big plus: they will give me what I want, not what I'm _supposed_ to want.
I felt exactly the same way, ended up with aqua terra 38mm, blue dial. GS Skyflake was my huge dilema, but was feared will not look right on my 16.5cm wrist.
Get a JLC. The watch markers watch, the God father of horology. Producing movements for AP, Patek, VC for years. The most complicated movements for the most well known watch models. The top dogs of watch brand names/horology. JLC is subtle, classy, robust, iconic, highly respectable. JLC is one of the brands to have in a collection imo, can’t wait to buy my first JLC one day.
@@austincragin7391 JLC is great, but a wee bit expensive...
I am not a Rolex hater. I am also not beholden to them either. I do find it sad that regular buyers so often default to them and don't give other excellent brands some consideration.
Seamaster 300m over a Submariner any day of the week for me 😊
Great comments, a tag and Breitling, both pre loved, were as steep as I would venture. Hope to find an omega or ball soon and need help deciding.
I’ve just subscribed, so late to the party in catching Mike’s past posts. This excellent channel is the ‘one-and-done watch’ for watch enthusiasts!
Welcome aboard 🙂🙂
Dang, this was an awesome breakdown of brand perception and quality. I've owned watches from Omega, Tudor, Rolex, Seiko and many others. And for me, the best watch I own that I wear the most is my Casio G-Shock GW-5000U. I've started to slowly sell off my expensive watches because I just don't care about perceived quality or brand perception--real or fake--anymore. I just need a tough watch, that always works and is insanely accurate. That being said, I always love videos like these that breakdown consumer psychology. Very well done.
Thank you, and thanks for adding your two cents. 😃😃 Can't go wrong with a casio btw. 👍
Grand Seiko Spring Drive. Gotta have one some day as it represents superb innovation in precision timekeeping.
Absolute first class video, presented by a true gentleman. Always enjoyable to watch.
Thank you
Thank you too 😊
Hi- I purchased a Chopard Happy Sport a few years ago. I'd like to know more about watches and the next best option I should consider. This channel is fascinating. I am looking forward to learning more. Thank you.
Another great one. Thank you.
Question. I’m sure some brands know their bracelets are lacking.
Why is it that they don’t improve? For example, the reason I’ve always been deterred from pulling a trigger on an Omega SM300 is the chunky non-tapering bracelet. I’m sure some like it. But this is a reoccurring complaint by many. So we can conclude that this is an issue. No one ever complaints about a submariner bracelet.
IWC heard and updated their Mark Pilot watches with better movement and tapering bracelet. Some brands do listen while for some it’s not as easy to integrate change sue various production and supply chain concerns
Thanks.
Bracelets? It's priorities and cost. Launching new and redesigned things constantly is expensive and the brands demand certainty that it will lead to better sales. Add to that, you don't want to go all in from day one, in stead spreading out your improvements to keep interest up. Innovations come slowly as a result and very rarely all at once. 😊
@@Pler1978 Not true at all. I know a few watch enthusiasts including myself that tried or owned Seamaster but moved to IWC, JLC and Tudor for better ergonomics. I sold my Seamaster for a Polaris and love it.
My friend is employed as a watch maker/ repairman by Breltling....we both own Russian Vostock(?) watches(about$60-90)... He says they last forever with NO maintenance... They are crude and i love them! They just keep running and can go 600 feet deep with no trouble! They look incredibly cheesy but being old and retired it's fun to find great value at bargain prices!
I think this channel has some of the best watch industry analysis on RUclips. Informed and well reasoned points throughout. Keep it up.
Much appreciated! 😀
re: Grand Seiko @ 6:25 - GS's main problem is bulky and out-of-touch designs, and not necessarily identity. Many enthusiasts swear by GS but end up buying Rolex, because GS watches are too dressy, too thick & too big. I want an OP36-like GADA design by GS, but what options do I have?
I stayed out of the commentary of the aesthetic of GS models, sticking in stead to just the signifiers of "luxury". Having said that I don't completely disagree with you. Their sporty options are often on the bulky side both in terms of objective size but also in the way they present themselves 😊
The question of 'worth' is one I struggle with all the time - what does a more expensive watch mean? Is this purchase a luxury I can enjoy or am I simply buying into a hype machine for the physical equivalent of NFT's? Adding in servicing costs for mechanical watches and it's one hell of a money sink.
The other aspect you mentioned - the 'identity' of the brand and how it changes how customers view it / themselves - I'm not one for that kind of marketing. This is why I don't think I'll ever buy a watch worth more than $1,000. Yet as an enthuasiast I can easily see a future where I own a box of watches worth the equivalent of a submariner. Would I be happier seeing the name Rolex or Grand Seiko on my wrist? Should I take that risk to see what's on the others side? Maybe I'm just not rich enough to play that game!
Love the videos and the questions / viewpoints they bring to light. Keep up the good work!
Thanks
Very kind of you. Thanks ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Been a collector for donkeys at this point, your channel is the only one i watch! Mike you just make SENSE! Love it...Great content!!
Thanks a ton. Glad to hear I have your support 😊😊
And I enjoy the business and company reference points
Loved your comments on Identity. I wonder how the new Christopher Ward XII will sell at an almost $5k USD price point. Does the brand have enough Brand Identity?
Good question. It will likely sell out to enthusiasts, but I doubt it's a mass volume model. Skeleton dials are very niche - and it's not the point of the watch. The point is to demonstrate that they are serious watchmakers. That's my thinking at least😊😊
Interestingly my friends who have gone into the automotive engineering sector tell me that car manufacturers spent millions developing that satisfying thud or clunk when you open and close a car door all in an effort to sound more premium. I think that's exactly what watch companies do as well. Because we "eat with our eyes" the tinsel of quality and success matter. You are quite right my friend. Quality is highly subjective. Having never shopped at the higher level (I did buy a date just a few years ago but that's hardly high horology) I would not be able to say what is great value right now. Hope you have a great Freedom Day and an awesome weekend!
The amount of time that has gone into the sound of a Merc door is ridiculous. It is one of the absolute key components to selling the car. 😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch If only they spent more time on the rest of it they would not be ranked as low as they are in reliability survey's haha! Strange how the times have changed! Hope you have a great one Mike!
I love your analogy of the sound a car door makes on a well build car. So true! You did not mention Lexus, but I drive one and listen for that "quality thunk" every time I close the door! :).... the concept does transfer to a watch feel and quality. We are a strange bunch for sure!!!! LOL
Thanks for bringing up Lexus. I drive a 2001 LS 430 and can honestly say its the nicest car I've ever owned. Maybe it's the more high-quality mass produced car ever sold? Sadly, Lexus doesn't make cars like they used to. My GX460's overall build quality pales in comparison to my old LS.
Thank you for “opening up the casebacks” and sharing what collectors actually get from the $4-14,000 watches. Very illuminating…The other factor is after market resale value, even though watches are not investments, which reflects demand.
If bling and shininess were the most important factors in luxury, Invicta would be the undisputable king.
I'd say Breitling.
I love your …”Days since last watch purchase” counter, Mike-reminds me of the “Days since last accident” health & safety signs that are commonplace in factories and warehouses in North America, in my experience at least 😅
Glad you like it. Quite enjoying throwing in easter eggs here and there for me more devoted watchers 😊
Mike --
i feed on the other end of the pond from your target audience -- my dozen-ish watch portfolio is heavy on San Martins and a few Cronos -- but the principles that you cite at about 8:30 into this video are universal . . . except, there may be cases where "texture, depth, and detail" actually get i the way of function. Let me explain:
A key benefit of lower priced watches is always having "horses for courses" in use. My dress watches are a pair of Datejust homages, one stainless and one two toned (selected depending on my suit and cuff links) both of which were customized with my Pentagon office code (oops, another thing that mega-dollar watches won't permit). Both have lovely dials; the San Martin example also has a rich mother-of-pearl surface too. So they meet "texture, depth and detail" . . . but not as much as my Nautilus three sub-register calendar homage with an AP-type waffle surface. That example almost defines texture, depth and detail.
BUT i don't always want to self-evidently reek quality; sometimes you just want to tell-the-time-atta-glance. For that my bronze Oris Sixty Five homage with a flat black matte dial, 12-3-6-9 face and contrasting gold heavily lumed saber hands works perfectly. No applied indices here: the lume is painted on the dial. The whole thing does its job well in a casual use context . . . and somehow sparks more interest than my Datejusts. It may be that the bronze works with the dial and leather strap (which few divers are worn with) to communicate idiosyncratic "tool-y". Oh yes, i got that one customized too . . .
-- gary ray
For me - whatever feeds the watch passion is good and sometimes we get blinded by the john mayer levels of cash floating around. I don't own any San Martins currently but have dipped my toes occasionally into them and into Steinhart. Sometimes that "rolex logo" means something but the funny thing is, when the logo is different you are actually forced to consider if you like the design and not just the brand, which I think is quite refreshing 😃😃
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch i ended up in the homage end of the market almost involuntarily: i had Tissot and Rado dress watches, but found myself in meetings with Eastern European Ministers and deputy Ministers; coin-of-the-realm there are Rolex watches of course. I felt a bit uncomfortable and could never afford those, but these homages with customized dials go under-the-radar. Nevertheless, for aesthetic reasons such as you cite -- the homage cases and dials put my earlier watches in the weeds -- i found that i really liked them (although for my use the C07 movement would be better). Another negative: i have to be my own importer and service manager . . . -- gary ray
A wonderful, thoughtful approach to a murky topic. Really great channel.
Thank you 😊
Anyone know the name of the omega shown at 3:10. I've become obsessed with owning it
It's the 1932 Olympic chrono chime. 800.000 USD or thereabouts 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I'm not sure what I expected the price to be but definitely not that.
I suppose this will have to be purchased made once I have some property to my name and rental incomes
Another great video....very interesting perspective. Cheers from Mozambique.
Cheers 😊😊😊
Love your videos, I have a reason to celebrate and looking to get my first luxury watch. What i want or am looking for is likea Dressy style chronograph; likea Junghans Meister or on the opposite pricerange and stylerange a Speedmaster. How do you feel that Longines falls into the brands category .?
I don’t often comment but this is very well thought-through content. Intellectually, I like Grand Seiko but can’t work up the enthusiasm to pull the trigger. I think Rolex is a bit of a safe choice and overplayed but would pick up a green dial Datejust at retail in the unlikely event the opportunity presented itself. Funny old world.
Thank you. Happy you found it worth watching 😊😊
What a great video. I particularly like the way you analyse the watches with a sublime blend of logical and philosophical factors. Perhaps I can humbly suggests that you do another video analysing the wearers of such watches eg: how many buy these watches just so to impress other people and how many buy because it is a quality watch? And how to tell the difference between the two groups of buyers? Thanks.
Thanks for watching and for the kind words 😀
Mike, I really like your channel. You cut through the hype and give intelligent analysis.
I try, thanks 😊
Man you have explained why the Tudor Pelagos FXD isn’t a good seller. It appeals to the enthusiast community BUT the average buyer is extremely turned off by a $4k watch without a bracelet! Makes a lot of sense.
I ended up buying it myself - but it's super niche as a watch. I wouldn't generally recommend it to most people - fixed lugs being a major reason 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch and that is why I love it! Such a pure tool design
I could listen to you talk about watches all day, your knowledge is incredible, also if you don't mind me asking, where abouts are you from?
Quickly, and you sir are one of my go to’s of RUclips. In the watch world I have had so many different RUclipsrs that I watched, but now you have risen to the top!!! Love your pure unadulterated truth, candor and no sugar coating the facts. Thank you sir. 😊
Always happy to hear that someone enjoys my approach 😊😊
Great discussion. I traded both my SS date just and my wife’s 2 tone datejust for 2 breitlings that my 2 boys wanted about 10 years ago. They were graduating college and it was almost a straight trade - early 90s Rolex for brand new breitlings. Now they just wish I’d given them the Rolexes!
Thanks a lot for your very interesting thoughts. I agree completly. Years ago I started with Casio and Citizen. Over Tissot, Maurice Lacroix, Junghans, Glycine etc. I came to TAG Heuer, Breitling and Rolex. Conclusion: ALL the watches work precisely since years and have a really good quality. The only difference is, that with a Breitling or Rolex you can show the the world what a "successful" guy you are. Now, I have started to sell the expensive ones and I will go back to my Casios and Tissots and use the watches for what they are really made: to tell me the time....
Mike, just came across your videos, probably by algorithm. And I find them all exceptional. I would not call myself a bona fide enthusiast however I do have a couple of omega’s, Cartier, several Hamilton‘s all mechanical. My speedy is my favorite and I love it for what it is not what it represents. Interesting though that my go to weekend watch is my Casio Marlin. The thing looks incredible and is hard to beat for US$55.
Thanks for watching and leaving your thoughts. Appreciated 😀
I’m surprised the Grand Seiko fans haven’t jumped on you for calling it ‘sterile’ to most mid and upper class looking for their luxury piece! 😊 I do agree with the branding perception, until you become a watch enthusiast, you wouldn’t look at the brand sadly. It’s well made, but sort of clinical - like a Toyota and Lexus. They do lack that luxury perception outside Japan, however I do think their market positioning now in the US is really geared towards the enthusiasts market, which is quite unique. What is your take on that? Great videos by the way, you’re one on the best watch channels out there with honest no nonsense approach. Keep it up, I’m now your avid supporter. 😊
I've avoid the lynching so far... I try to be balanced but also share my opinion 😀
I never got why Grand Seiko kept Seiko in the name. How does Grand Toyota sound to you? Very different then Lexus.
As always spot on. Your content is the best of the lot in watch videos. I always feel that I've learned something new.
you are a wonderful teacher of the watch world, thank you for your knowledge !
You are very welcome 😀 just a nerd talking about his hobby 😀
I am a Watch enthusiast and love to heard people who know more about these holy then me, you are definily a person with a high knowledge about these ! thank you so much for teaching all of us!!
This is my first time seeing a really , just honest review!!!!@
Glad you found it worth your time😀
Favorite watch channel by a mile, after watching only two videos - thank you for the care and content
thanks for the praise. Appreciated 😀
Very enjoyable analysis today! Great work 😎
I think things are changing with Grand Seiko… lots of retailers are willing to invest in while GS boutiques now as opposed to the previous model where GS was a sub section of the Seiko section in a shop that also sold many other brands.
This implies that there now is an emotional attachment to the brand. It is not just for enthusiasts as you said.
Agree to some extent - GS are going big in terms of trying to convince people they are worth a look, and in some areas they are definitely succeeding 😀
Great video, as usual. In this space, I am 100% Rolex. My father and grandfather loved watches, and Rolex was the grail. When I graduated from med school, I was gifted a Rolex. When my daughter was born I gave my wife a Rolex. I have Omegas and Tudors, but Rolex has that special meaning.
The watch that I am now saving for is the Santos de Cartier. Always wanted one, and as a Brazilian, the connection to Alberto Santos Dumont plays a massive role in the decision.
As for you, keep up the good work.
I don't know? I don't even own a watch but I'm deep in the obsession the last couple of months and I'm in the hunt. The Grand Seiko evokes all kinds of emotion in me. The dials and Spring Drive call to me. However, maybe not the best choice for my first mechanical watch 😊
I'll go under our around 1k. So most likely Hamilton or CW. Maybe I'll step up and get a Tudor....on the next one.
Then the Grand Seiko 😊
Speaking about the average buyer: Once upon a time I was workin in the car claims department of an insurance broker. One day I spoke to some lady on the phone, and whilst I had already learned at that point, that it can't be expected that people would be able to differentiate between the liablitiy and the casco insurance (which already sounds easy enough for me: liablity is for everyone elses damage, casco is your own) - this "remarkable" lady made me learn that you indeed can own and drive a car yet do not have any clue what the COMPULSORY liablity insurance does at all. So, she needs to take one out, she doesn't get her licence plate without one, but she didn't know what it does.
THAT is indeed the level of insight the average Joe/Jane will have when walking into a watch store. Don't wanna step on anybody's toes here, but imho people can be incredibly ... well I don't know how to call it. Let's put it mildly: They think from 12 to midday and often show no interest of having a further glimpse into things. Sometimes, I am deeply worried about humanity as a whole. :D
Bingo.... Brilliant analogy 😊😊
As always your intellect and analysis shines through. In addition to the content your delivery is so enjoyable to watch and listen to. Thanks for all the effort and thought you put into your videos. Cheers!🎉
Thanks again 😀
I bought Pelagos. I brought it home and finally admitted to myself it was too light. Incredible quality etc, but the weight was a massive turn off for the reason you mentioned. It went back within a day.
I’ll be honest, as someone in this upper mid space looking to buy their “I made it “ watch, I do have to admit that it is very difficult to discount the icon factor. This will be my third largest purchase of my life and yes, it would be nice for people to know what I’m wearing.
It’s brave of u to admit this. I mean, if u are a multimillionaire then sure overpay. If u r trying to impress shallow people, that is okay. U may be in an industry or a dating scene where this has value.
But I am guessing u r an intelligent guy. U might be further ahead wearing a watch that creates a bit of intrigue. Someone sees it, u get a compliment and asks u about the brand.
I am a casino dealer in Detroit. It’s a parade of watches north of 10k. Many of these men understand watch value. A Rolex date just won’t impress many.
However, I must admit. I do like Rolex , but there prices r insane. 20 years ago I was making good money Almost bought a sub mariner for 4k, or the iwc fleiger model for $2500. I should have bought the iwc. The days of getting a watch like that r over 😂😂😂
Oh, btw way…. What did u end up purchasing.
@@chevy4x466 this will probably discredit anything I say about watches, but the Tudor royal 38 in blue. Went to go get on the waitlist for an OP but tried this on and loved it. Still do about 6 months later.
@@chevy4x466 this may seem me lose credibility, but the Tudor royal 38 in blue. Went to go put my name in for an OP and tried this on and loved the way it fit and looked. Honestly love this watch.
@@chevy4x466 I ended up purchasing a Tudor Royal 38mm in with the blue dial. Ugly watch when I was looking online but I really liked it in person!
My new favourite channel. I could listen to you chatting watches all day! 😂 👍🏻
Someone needs to send this video to the Bremont team. It perfectly illustrates why their new line is such an error. Just as the brand formed its identity and found its audience through the story they told - it’s destroyed in a week.
Funny things is - I cut a whole segment from this video diving into Bremont, discussing those exact challenges.
Their identity is “off” under the new ceo and for a relatively expensive watch brand they don’t convey luxury enough. Saw them at watches at wonders and was dissapponted with quite a few of the models
Cheers 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch i hope this means an upcoming episode for bremont, to hopefully knock the ceo off his high horse (or at least some sense into him) so Mr Davide can right the ship before impending shipwreck, which absolutely nobody finds joy in
@@randmacct636 I like the concept of giving them the opportunity to change course vs. bashing them.
Interesting re Bremont - assume previous model not working (never made a profit) and new VC money wanted a return - Bremont needs a new wider audience and I think this will disrupt the existing market - brave move.
The faux military connection is a big fail, giving your product to a bunch of pilots does not make it a brand of choice, I served 25 years in the RAF and can categorically state that pilots will grab anything for nothing.
Excellent video as always! Thx for educating me with your videos
Thanks for watching 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch hey Mike, I’m a recently “early” retired ER Doc (now a stay at home dad) & was wondering what your day job is (since it isn’t watch reviews on YT)…you obviously don’t have to answer if you don’t want & I’ll understand 😊
Thanks! I enjoy your comments as always. 😀
I love the content every week! Bonus is hopefully, hearing Mike pronounce the full name if JLC😊 Smooth, Mike, well done!
Somebody thinking I pronounced something correctly? That's rare 😀😀😀
For a moment I thought you were about to blame Hublot's brand image on Nico 🤣
😂😂😂
Nico certainly has his opinion of Hublot 😂😂
about hublot , i have the classic fusion , the rubber/ leather strap is there cuz the watch is titanium and adds weigh to the watch, the watch is 42 but looks feels and wears as 38 because of the polishing , it makes the watch looks smaller but also giving it a good shine, moreover the bezel shines so good and somehow titanium brakes the light and gives it a red shine ( dots here and there ) like a diamond. i wish i could send you a photo of the watch but all you will see is my iphone :D the watch has amazing polish , about the movement , i roll my eyes so much, when you compare it with 1k watch :D first of all breitling have actually the same movement as the cosc CW watches , and breitling are almost the same price as hublot. actually the classic fussion has 2892 which is actually one step higher than that in the breitling , especially in the colt and the older models . i wish you were right and my watch had that 2824 like in the CW cuz then i could fix my watch much cheaper. i had the fix the automatic winding , the part for fixing it cost more than a new 2824. is true hublot makes you look like an arrogant a$$hole :D but rolex makes you look like a cheep :D everyone has one, either replica homage or original...
At a party, I noticed that 8 out of the 10 male guests had a Rolex on their wrists including me. That prompted me to explore alternatives to the usual suspects or at least the more rarified items in the catalogues of the usual suspects. This caused me to seek out independents like Habring2, Stefan Ketelaars, RGM and the new Danish brand Arcanaut. My Omega references currently include the Seamaster Bullhead Chronograph (which along with the Ploprof which I have also owned) is one of their eccentric references. Pre-2017 Parmigiani and Speake-Marin (with a Vaucher movement) references are in my watchbox. I seldom run into anyone who is wearing what I am 😂wearing and I like that.
In Denmark everyone just hypes up Rolex like there is nothing else.
I wouldn’t want a Rolex in this country looking at how many people get robbed of them. Referring to the Facebook groups. 😢
But seems like you got way more into watches and found what you really liked 😊 I am glad I found other brands too, and have completely forgotten about Rolex.
Just sounds like you bought a Rolex for the wrong reasons. Would you do the same with a car? Are you annoyed your neighbours have houses too?
Damn. You need new friends.
I had an interesting thought in my head the other day. Based on volumes - you are more likely to bump into a person wearing a Rolex than you are wearing a Tag Heur. Rolex sells 1.2 mill a year. Tag. Half that. If you want to be unique, different or appear exclusive - Rolex is counterintuitively actually not that exclusive, despite waiting lists at the ad... 😊😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch moral of the story: Wear a Tag, to stand out. Me, I'm acquiring a 20-year old 2000 series automatic, which should put me in rarefied company, indeed 🙃
Great video, Great analysis, interesting and knowledgeable point of view. Thanks you. You did at multiple time talked about men hours works, but mostly as an illustration of your point of analysis. I will be very interested to have a full video on that subject. In one of your previous video you mention a report that was indication men hour works average per brand would it be possible to have the reference of it as a reply. Thanks again for the unique point of view you.
Here: watchesbysjx.com/2022/11/watchmaking-market-map-2022.html
or Google "Man hours to build a watch". Then click on the watchesbysjx link.
I can't imagine in what universe i would pay $10-20k for a Rolex that i have to send in every 5 years for weeks or months for"cleaning and maintenance" at a cost of thousands of dollars. That's not my measure of value or prestige. A few years ago, I thought about and discovered I wear that Rolex more than 3-4x a year. I didn't hate then but for me, is a waste of resources.
Seiko design reflects their cultural heritage simplicity and subtle flavor which only trained eyes can notice. They don't shoot for bling bling.
Enjoyed your video. Thank you!
Thanks 😊
This is an amazing analysis of luxury watch branding. You are showing off all your knowledge. Well done!
Kind of you - thanks 😊
I think shiny is cheap, I like it as an addition, to show nice edges and lines, but not as the main finishing.
The same, I avoid shiny ceramic bezel inserts.
Like I said. Shiny things attract crows 😂
The high end audio references are spot on. The feel of the knobs on a preamp are important too. The look of a pearl paint finish on Wilsons look like money too.
When my wife asked if I shouldn't spend my money on audio in stead of watches, I just showed her a list of RCA cable prices. 😂
@ Lol, hilarious.
@ I would love to see an audio segment from you or learn more about what your dad did in it. And I won’t tell you what my speaker cables cost. 😂
My top 3 are Rolex, Omega and Grand Seiko (not very original)
originality is overrated, when you're just looking for a good watch 😊😊😊
I love these types of videos you do. These are the conversations I have with myself all the time when I’m thinking about the next watch I want to buy. For me it’s Rolex. I have 3 Rolexes and never questioned the purchases. I’ve always questioned the other watch brands I’ve bought(Tudor, breitling ,omega) and have subsequently sold most of them. The bottom line is Rolex is the best watch you can buy at retail. The fit, finish, accuracy, and value retention are second to none.
Some people in the comments would disagree that rolex is the best you can buy at retail. I would generally say, that they likely are with Omega more often than not being pretty much equal most of the time. Sometimes a little better. Sometimes a little under.
But whether Rolex once just sourced all their stuff and their movements aren't high end finished. Fact is. They work for ages. The watches look good and the QC holds up. We can hate on them all we want, but pretending the watches are not objectively well made is a mistake 😊😊
For me and my budget...I just love everything that longines brings to the table. So many different models with such rich history, all affordable, and most hit above their price range. Im curious, what's your opinion on longines?
Amazing well articulated insight as always, mate. You are my favorite watch content creator.
Wonderful to hear it 😊
I wonder how independent brands fit into this model - Louis Erard, Anordain, Habring. Does the price to quality range change compared to mainstream brands? I’d assume you’d get a lot more watch for the money.
Not sure you get more watch, but you don't pay as much for branding. So the price - value ratio is much more appealing potentially.
Check out my video about Monta which covers the topic and the video "finding the best watches at 500...".
Cheers 😊
Another problem for Grand Seiko, at least in the U.S., is the presence of the name Seiko. It’s like if Toyota had called their premium line “Grand Toyota” instead of Lexus. Seiko needs to change the name to change the perception.
What a thoughtful commentary! I’m looking into buying my first luxury watch and I learned a lot from this video. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful 😀
Insightful video, thank you.
Glad it was worth your time 😊
I think a watch is about the complete package, solid bracelet, case, movement etc. That’s all present with Rolex like you said in this video. It’s also the reason why I think Tudor and Longines will be taking a lot of market share in the lower/middle segment in the years to come. Every single new releases of these two have upgrades and eliminate the weaknesses the previous models had. Which is why they are getting closer to that complete package.
Hublot’s problem is Nico 😂
Nico is powerless. Just like PewDiePie is powerless. this cult of personality has little boots-to-the-ground tangibility, and “if you know you know” is another way of saying something is esoteric… or worthless, speaking pragmatically.
Probably... But weirdly, the persona that Nico has online - with ferraris and doing donuts in switzerland, feuding with rappers is very Hublot... 😊
Best advice: "Buy what you like." It applies to all toys. Another awesome video. Past $4000 you're paying for many things such as name, hand made or not, the metals used, diamonds, and marketing and scarcity BS, you are NOT paying for haute horlogerie.
GS when in hand looks far more expensive and luxurious than Rolex. Maybe not in photos, but in real life, wearing them you notice the difference.
Not really, GS has nothing that compares to a DJ in hand, as pointed out this vid (let alone a President), Wear a DJ and everyone will recognize its luxury. GS tends to be chunky, with cheap feeling bracelets.
For me. Grand Seiko is about nuance and detail. It's a delicate fine wine for the trained palette. Rolex is an Australian Shiraz. Full of flavour but also sometimes a little overwhelming. Both good. Very different 😊😊
You are a joy to listen to. Thank you for making videos and sharing your knowledge.
Thanks for the vid, Mike! Just enjoying it on my afternoon
Enjoy! 😊
Great observations, especially regarding Grand Seiko; however, I think Grand Seiko has better actual quality versus its perceived quality. I ignored them until in hand at an AD. Now I have 2 of them, while I'll get around to "a" Rolex, probably a Cellini date in gold and call it a day. Don't need their status and already have Omega and tool watchs.
I never liked Rolex, really. The one that appeals my taste more is the 1908, which is extremely expensive for what it is. But one day I was surprised to see Roger W. Smith, one of the most important watchmakers in the world, showing the two Rolex he has in his collections. He basically says that Rolex is an excellent, well-made watch; and that no one probably needs more than that. Of course, i would never buy a Rolex, even if I had the money, because spending 14 or 21K in a watch is just absolutely crazy. But I have to recognize that the Rolex you show at the beguinning of this video (Rolex 1908, 2024 platinum version, baby blue dial) left me speechless. It is a beautiful watch at the humble price of 40K.
@daintiestquarters3411 I’m curious what Rolexes did he have in his collection? Thanks!
The new 1908 is gorgeous.
Love my submariner. They are desired for a reason. And it’s not that crazy when you think that the watch will still be worth something 20 years from now.
@@mcorlanExplorer from memory
Yep and you can get one no problem because at $40K there are so many watches that make the 1908 look like hot garbage. Rolex can’t design a non-sports watch. They’ve always been horrible at it and always will be.
Really a great video and a great explanation of perceived value. However I wonder about the conclusion that in this price range one would have to do the most due diligence. Isn't it the opposite? As you explained you can't really objectively go wrong with either of these brands so one could or maybe should just buy what they feel most attracted to? No need to compare movements or clasps or anything then?
It depends. The reason I say do your due dilligence depends on the fact that the prioritise so differently.
If movements are important to you, then Cartier is not (in that range) going to be important to you.
If finishing and intricacy is important to you JLC is going to outperform Rolex, but Rolex has the more robust watches.
All the watches will be "good" but the trade offs can be meaningful, and just buying based on brand perception can lead to dissappointment.
Having said that: No. There's not a huge risk of buying junk in this range 😃😃
There are a lot of people who prefer to wear something understated and not obviously expensive as supposed to solid gold rolexes. A good friend of mine traded in his rolexes for omega and panerai and told me he was a lot happier not getting the kind of attention the rolex watches would inevitably garner. On the other hand, another buddy loves wearing his 36 mm vint datejust and nothing else.
Some people appreciate understatement. In other words, de gustibus non est disputandum.
Looking around the office today, I have seen more or less nothing but submariners and datejusts (of the people that give a shirt about mechanical watches). They are great watches, but they are the safe choice. Other brands will deliver more nuance... I think that's the strength of somehting like GS. 😊😊
Nice overview. I understand the need of brands to make money, but most Swiss brands seem to have transitioned from quality focus to luxury focus at a very steep increase in pricing, reducing those products perceived value to me especially. My Swiss watch experience with Cartier Santos x2, Tag Heuer F1 x4, and one IWC between my wife & myself was mediocre at best. Most durable, best time keeping was a 1980 - $150 Seiko diver.
Tend to agree - they’ve focused less on the quality and gone much more down a perception route. I’m not sure it’s wise 😀
Bruv, why do you only have 33k subs? You are a genius!
Don't know about the genius thing, but spread the word and I may get some more subs 😊😊😊
I really like formex. Very good brackets. Cosc cert and interesting dials. I just bought the black ceramic leggere and the meteorite dial. I also think CW make great watches. Attractive. Cosc certified. I just bought the blue limited edition skeletonized twelve. 2 barrels w 120 hr power reserve. Both companies are loaded w value. U get a lot of watch for the money and they so far have stayed interesting on my wrist
Many good points here. Thank you. I winced a bit on your Grand Seiko remarks, not to disagree but rather because I think there is more to it. What counts as luxury is to a larger or lesser extent culturally dependent. As you note, while there are objective measures, there is much that is subjective. GS is a Japanese luxury brand originating from and primarily serving a culture traditionally more reserved in showing wealth, reflecting a way of life that frowns on "look at me" expressions of success. Yes, to my Western eyes they look less luxury (I own 2) yet when handled they compare well to my Rolexes (I also own 2). And, yes, this is a problem for GS as it seeks to challenge the Swiss for Western eyeballs and wallets. I appreciate them because they represent another, different approach to luxury yet maintain a superior standard of craftsmanship and excellence in watchmaking. So, to your larger point of what counts as luxury (and much of this can be applied to beauty), broad statements about heft, shininess, etc., should be caveated, methinks, at least as they apply to GS. All the best.
Well said. Do you think your Grand Seikos maintain a superior level of quality and craftsmanship over your Rolexes?
@@MrZanzibar123 Oh, not sure about that. I think you'd have to be an experienced watchmaker to tell for sure, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if they do. I think they are currently one of the best values in luxury watchmaking, that's for sure. Rather than quality and craftsmanship, I think the main differences are style and and design. Either you like them or you don't which is fair enough. All the best.
@@scoobertdoobert743 They are not without their bling, that's for sure. But compared to a fluted bezel and jubilee bracelet, overall they seem somewhat more understated than Rolex's, imho.
I agree with you. As I said in the video "Grand Seiko does not live up to the western definitions of luxury". Sincre GS is very clearly gunning for especially the US market, I do see them struggle more than they would like to. I would also argue that a middle eastern context is also not great for GS, but eastern cultural sensibilities? Agree. GS is more aligned with those values 😊😊😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch Very nice response, Mike. Thank you. This idea of cross-cultural challenges for brands who seek to market globally is an interesting topic itself. Watches are a useful focus for thinking about the subjectivity of aesthetics and the role of history in defining what luxury or beauty looks like. For good or ill, the Swiss, primarily Rolex, have played an outsized role in actually defining what luxury watches should look like for the mass market. Deviations from the Rolex "standard," as you point out, are rare. Very interesting stuff! All the best!
Although I mostly collect San Martin, Heimdallr, Steeldives etc. as they are within my retirement spend range I have Swiss watches in my collection from Hamilton, Certina, Rado and Glycine and nice pieces from Seiko and Bulova. Even if money was not an issue I would still gravitate towards watches rarely seen. One sees way fewer Breitlings or Tudors in the wild than Rolex or Omega. Great talk as always.
Man, this guy knows his stuff !
I would be interested to see a comparison of Blancpain and Chopard. Both brands produce very high-quality watches, but lose a lot of their value on the second-hand market. Which of the two do you think has the better quality and better value?
Your contents are so sharp, the contents of your chanel are so maximum at the point, that I really love it.
Wow, thank you! 😃😃
6 months late and challenged with this. Glad I watched it through, as you understand the concern.
The value is defined where?
In the market with prices? Quality metrics like accuracy and flatness/sparkle.
But it really is in making you smile.