I think there's a lot of hard truths people have a hard time dealing with. For example, for all the hate Rolex gets (and deserve) there is NOBODY even close that has the brand recognition that Rolex has. And I think for a lot of people that spend $7-15K on a watch care a lot more about having something with huge name pedigree than they like to admit. Its the same reason people wear the Lululemon and On Brand shoes around town. There's stuff out just as good for half the price but it doesn't signal to the world what you are wearing when they see that little Lulu brand circle or the On Shoes distinctive honeycomb sole of the shoe.
The key point in my vid about Rolex was that because Rolex is so dominant, in the eyes of a "normal consumer", all other brands are judged against the standard that is rolex. Is it as reliable (as a rolex)? Is it as much a statement (as a rolex)? Is it as accurate (as a Rolex)? Whether Rolex is objectively better doesn't matter. People look at that Omega that they know little to nothing about and inadvertently compare it to.... Rolex. That's the power of marketing .😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatchthat's also the reason why you will find more enthusiasts among people wearing non-Rolex Swiss/Japanese/German/micro watchbrands than among people wearing Rolex. They generally care less about status and they already know that Rolex is not the pinnacle of watchmaking.
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I think this may be your best video yet! Really great thesis and thoughts about all of this. I do think there is an exception, and it's Cartier (and maybe a couple of very specific models from others, like Bulgari), which has a huge reputation outside of watches. Rolex doesn't have the same kind of cache with women as it does for men, and while the customer base is smaller, it is essentially up for grabs. Cartier is better positioned for that audience with its branding than most anyone else. It doesn't have to justify itself against Rolex the same way that Omega would.
Sorta a bad take. I wear lululemon’s cause of the balance of fit and quality. Also lululemon’s are $100usd pants for men…versus these $7-10K USD watches? Ummmmm. Also men’s lululemon’s don’t have a logo as far as I know
After almost 20 years absence of wearing a watch I decided to return to watch ownership in 2023. Previously I had no clue about movements or any technical know-how of watches so I decided to properly learn about the fundamentals and differences between watches. After much research I decided to move away from battery operated watches and focus on mechanical movements. This lead me to discovering the great marriage of mechanical and quartz - no battery needed but great accuracy - and purchasing my first and only luxury watch from a brand I did not even know existed - a Grand Seiko Spring Drive. It is beautiful, it does not require a battery, it is super accurate, and no one in my circle of friends even knows what I am wearing which is perfectly fine for me as I wear the watch for my own enjoyment and no one elses.
i prefer the anonymity of wearing zenith or iwc versus the apparent flex of wearing rolex. for me, i think that grand seiko has a similar and opposite problem in that seiko, like casio, is similarly widely known among watch muggles as a cheap and cheerful brand. i just can't bring myself to spend over $5k on a watch that most would associate with the jewelry counter at macy's. there's a reason that lexus isn't just called "toyota supreme." it's just not as cool as it would be with its own unique (and relatively obscure) branding, for me. in summation: i don't want people knowing that my watch cost $5k. i also don't want people thinking that my $5k watch is a $500 watch.
@@m4ttyp4nts " in summation: i don't want people knowing that my watch cost $5k. i also don't want people thinking that my $5k watch is a $500 watch." Don't worry, non-watch people won't think either, because they won't even register the existence of the watch on your wrist. I'd go for that GS if I were you, it's enough if YOU know you have a quality product :)
@@zosothezephead837 exactly. One reason I am considering a Glashutte Senator Perpetual is that unless someone is a true enthusiast, they won’t know. And in my friend’s circle the brands known are Rolex, Omega, AP, Patek etc. No one knows any German brands.
You quickly became my favourite watch RUclipsr. Always competent, well informed, no nonsense, no hype. Just facts, observations and common sense (which is a rarity these days) garnished with a little bit of humor 👍
Buy what you like. Best advice ever. I had the Speedy and SM300, because they were iconic, did not pull at my heart string. My Zeniths on the other hand, "flaws" and all, I look forward to wearing them and puts a smile on my face every time. Just because marketing got me in the door, the watches are what will ultimately make me stay.
I bought a Grand Seiko. It's the only watch I own that cost over $600. Frankly, I would be embarrassed to wear a Rolex. I would consider an Omega or an Oris or a Monta or a Christopher Ward, but Grand Seiko was such a deal I went to it first. Especially right now with the yen at 158 per dollar. Grand Seiko is an incredible steal for Americans right now if you buy directly from Japan, even with the import tax.
The allure of a ROLEX Oyster Perpetual GMT II pulled me into an AD’s shop, for the first time in my life, after retirement in 2021. I promptly got the ROLEX treatment from the AD. I instead, bought two TUDORs on the secondary market (a 1995 Prince Oysterdate Submariner and a 2021 Black Bay GMT). Regrets? Yes, they’re not ROLEXes; but, I am pleased knowing the AD will never receive any of my hard-earned money; and I spent half as much money, or less, for watches that are a good value for my money. I neither need the “approval” of a ROLEX AD, nor will I spend $100K just to be put on a waiting list for the possibility of buying a single, new ROLEX watch someday. You made a great video; and, I look forward to seeing more of them.
And some cats too. I woke up in the middle of the night one time and my friend's cat was very gently trying to take my silver ring off of my finger. LOL! The little stinker...
Heehee, true. I've actually learned how to put a mirror finish on stainless steel, so, sozatso polishing--or whatever it's called--adorns my travel mug now. (was a big job, phew)
Dang, this was an awesome breakdown of brand perception and quality. I've owned watches from Omega, Tudor, Rolex, Seiko and many others. And for me, the best watch I own that I wear the most is my Casio G-Shock GW-5000U. I've started to slowly sell off my expensive watches because I just don't care about perceived quality or brand perception--real or fake--anymore. I just need a tough watch, that always works and is insanely accurate. That being said, I always love videos like these that breakdown consumer psychology. Very well done.
Thank you for “opening up the casebacks” and sharing what collectors actually get from the $4-14,000 watches. Very illuminating…The other factor is after market resale value, even though watches are not investments, which reflects demand.
I was actually that first time luxury watch buyer who didn't know all that much about watches, but wanted something really nice from a famous Swiss brand. I was put off by Rolex _very_ quickly, mainly by the shitty attitude of AD's, but also because they seemed way overpriced compared to other brands in the same quality bracket. Also, heretical as it sounds, I just find their designs kind of "meh" - nothing wrong with it, but not interesting either. Cartier also didn't do it for me, although I do like the Santos, it lacked some features that I really wanted, like an open caseback (with a nice movement to look at), and lume. Grand Seiko designs are just not for me, though I do recognise their high quality. I like Zenith quite a lot, also some Breitlings, but at the end, I found that the brand that really ticked all the boxes on my list for a "one luxury watch" was Omega. Haven't regretted the decision, I think they are pretty much the brand that tries to cater for the most tastes and desires. For some that may be a negative (not such a clear identity, too big catalog), but for me, who's not a collector, it's a big plus: they will give me what I want, not what I'm _supposed_ to want.
I felt exactly the same way, ended up with aqua terra 38mm, blue dial. GS Skyflake was my huge dilema, but was feared will not look right on my 16.5cm wrist.
Get a JLC. The watch markers watch, the God father of horology. Producing movements for AP, Patek, VC for years. The most complicated movements for the most well known watch models. The top dogs of watch brand names/horology. JLC is subtle, classy, robust, iconic, highly respectable. JLC is one of the brands to have in a collection imo, can’t wait to buy my first JLC one day.
I am not a Rolex hater. I am also not beholden to them either. I do find it sad that regular buyers so often default to them and don't give other excellent brands some consideration. Seamaster 300m over a Submariner any day of the week for me 😊
In my experience, only watch brand that was recognized and commented among non-watch people (35+ years) is Casio Vintage series and G Shock. At one party I wore Casio 53W. That watch put smile on the face of people who were there with the SUB, golden President and AP RO. Great channel BTW.
Interestingly my friends who have gone into the automotive engineering sector tell me that car manufacturers spent millions developing that satisfying thud or clunk when you open and close a car door all in an effort to sound more premium. I think that's exactly what watch companies do as well. Because we "eat with our eyes" the tinsel of quality and success matter. You are quite right my friend. Quality is highly subjective. Having never shopped at the higher level (I did buy a date just a few years ago but that's hardly high horology) I would not be able to say what is great value right now. Hope you have a great Freedom Day and an awesome weekend!
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch If only they spent more time on the rest of it they would not be ranked as low as they are in reliability survey's haha! Strange how the times have changed! Hope you have a great one Mike!
Quickly, and you sir are one of my go to’s of RUclips. In the watch world I have had so many different RUclipsrs that I watched, but now you have risen to the top!!! Love your pure unadulterated truth, candor and no sugar coating the facts. Thank you sir. 😊
Someone needs to send this video to the Bremont team. It perfectly illustrates why their new line is such an error. Just as the brand formed its identity and found its audience through the story they told - it’s destroyed in a week.
Funny things is - I cut a whole segment from this video diving into Bremont, discussing those exact challenges. Their identity is “off” under the new ceo and for a relatively expensive watch brand they don’t convey luxury enough. Saw them at watches at wonders and was dissapponted with quite a few of the models Cheers 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch i hope this means an upcoming episode for bremont, to hopefully knock the ceo off his high horse (or at least some sense into him) so Mr Davide can right the ship before impending shipwreck, which absolutely nobody finds joy in
Interesting re Bremont - assume previous model not working (never made a profit) and new VC money wanted a return - Bremont needs a new wider audience and I think this will disrupt the existing market - brave move.
The faux military connection is a big fail, giving your product to a bunch of pilots does not make it a brand of choice, I served 25 years in the RAF and can categorically state that pilots will grab anything for nothing.
I love your analogy of the sound a car door makes on a well build car. So true! You did not mention Lexus, but I drive one and listen for that "quality thunk" every time I close the door! :).... the concept does transfer to a watch feel and quality. We are a strange bunch for sure!!!! LOL
Thanks for bringing up Lexus. I drive a 2001 LS 430 and can honestly say its the nicest car I've ever owned. Maybe it's the more high-quality mass produced car ever sold? Sadly, Lexus doesn't make cars like they used to. My GX460's overall build quality pales in comparison to my old LS.
At a party, I noticed that 8 out of the 10 male guests had a Rolex on their wrists including me. That prompted me to explore alternatives to the usual suspects or at least the more rarified items in the catalogues of the usual suspects. This caused me to seek out independents like Habring2, Stefan Ketelaars, RGM and the new Danish brand Arcanaut. My Omega references currently include the Seamaster Bullhead Chronograph (which along with the Ploprof which I have also owned) is one of their eccentric references. Pre-2017 Parmigiani and Speake-Marin (with a Vaucher movement) references are in my watchbox. I seldom run into anyone who is wearing what I am 😂wearing and I like that.
In Denmark everyone just hypes up Rolex like there is nothing else. I wouldn’t want a Rolex in this country looking at how many people get robbed of them. Referring to the Facebook groups. 😢 But seems like you got way more into watches and found what you really liked 😊 I am glad I found other brands too, and have completely forgotten about Rolex.
I had an interesting thought in my head the other day. Based on volumes - you are more likely to bump into a person wearing a Rolex than you are wearing a Tag Heur. Rolex sells 1.2 mill a year. Tag. Half that. If you want to be unique, different or appear exclusive - Rolex is counterintuitively actually not that exclusive, despite waiting lists at the ad... 😊😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch moral of the story: Wear a Tag, to stand out. Me, I'm acquiring a 20-year old 2000 series automatic, which should put me in rarefied company, indeed 🙃
I love your …”Days since last watch purchase” counter, Mike-reminds me of the “Days since last accident” health & safety signs that are commonplace in factories and warehouses in North America, in my experience at least 😅
Man you have explained why the Tudor Pelagos FXD isn’t a good seller. It appeals to the enthusiast community BUT the average buyer is extremely turned off by a $4k watch without a bracelet! Makes a lot of sense.
The question of 'worth' is one I struggle with all the time - what does a more expensive watch mean? Is this purchase a luxury I can enjoy or am I simply buying into a hype machine for the physical equivalent of NFT's? Adding in servicing costs for mechanical watches and it's one hell of a money sink. The other aspect you mentioned - the 'identity' of the brand and how it changes how customers view it / themselves - I'm not one for that kind of marketing. This is why I don't think I'll ever buy a watch worth more than $1,000. Yet as an enthuasiast I can easily see a future where I own a box of watches worth the equivalent of a submariner. Would I be happier seeing the name Rolex or Grand Seiko on my wrist? Should I take that risk to see what's on the others side? Maybe I'm just not rich enough to play that game! Love the videos and the questions / viewpoints they bring to light. Keep up the good work!
Speaking about the average buyer: Once upon a time I was workin in the car claims department of an insurance broker. One day I spoke to some lady on the phone, and whilst I had already learned at that point, that it can't be expected that people would be able to differentiate between the liablitiy and the casco insurance (which already sounds easy enough for me: liablity is for everyone elses damage, casco is your own) - this "remarkable" lady made me learn that you indeed can own and drive a car yet do not have any clue what the COMPULSORY liablity insurance does at all. So, she needs to take one out, she doesn't get her licence plate without one, but she didn't know what it does. THAT is indeed the level of insight the average Joe/Jane will have when walking into a watch store. Don't wanna step on anybody's toes here, but imho people can be incredibly ... well I don't know how to call it. Let's put it mildly: They think from 12 to midday and often show no interest of having a further glimpse into things. Sometimes, I am deeply worried about humanity as a whole. :D
Thanks a lot for your very interesting thoughts. I agree completly. Years ago I started with Casio and Citizen. Over Tissot, Maurice Lacroix, Junghans, Glycine etc. I came to TAG Heuer, Breitling and Rolex. Conclusion: ALL the watches work precisely since years and have a really good quality. The only difference is, that with a Breitling or Rolex you can show the the world what a "successful" guy you are. Now, I have started to sell the expensive ones and I will go back to my Casios and Tissots and use the watches for what they are really made: to tell me the time....
Another great one. Thank you. Question. I’m sure some brands know their bracelets are lacking. Why is it that they don’t improve? For example, the reason I’ve always been deterred from pulling a trigger on an Omega SM300 is the chunky non-tapering bracelet. I’m sure some like it. But this is a reoccurring complaint by many. So we can conclude that this is an issue. No one ever complaints about a submariner bracelet.
IWC heard and updated their Mark Pilot watches with better movement and tapering bracelet. Some brands do listen while for some it’s not as easy to integrate change sue various production and supply chain concerns
Thanks. Bracelets? It's priorities and cost. Launching new and redesigned things constantly is expensive and the brands demand certainty that it will lead to better sales. Add to that, you don't want to go all in from day one, in stead spreading out your improvements to keep interest up. Innovations come slowly as a result and very rarely all at once. 😊
@@Pler1978 Not true at all. I know a few watch enthusiasts including myself that tried or owned Seamaster but moved to IWC, JLC and Tudor for better ergonomics. I sold my Seamaster for a Polaris and love it.
I’ll be honest, as someone in this upper mid space looking to buy their “I made it “ watch, I do have to admit that it is very difficult to discount the icon factor. This will be my third largest purchase of my life and yes, it would be nice for people to know what I’m wearing.
It’s brave of u to admit this. I mean, if u are a multimillionaire then sure overpay. If u r trying to impress shallow people, that is okay. U may be in an industry or a dating scene where this has value. But I am guessing u r an intelligent guy. U might be further ahead wearing a watch that creates a bit of intrigue. Someone sees it, u get a compliment and asks u about the brand. I am a casino dealer in Detroit. It’s a parade of watches north of 10k. Many of these men understand watch value. A Rolex date just won’t impress many. However, I must admit. I do like Rolex , but there prices r insane. 20 years ago I was making good money Almost bought a sub mariner for 4k, or the iwc fleiger model for $2500. I should have bought the iwc. The days of getting a watch like that r over 😂😂😂
@@chevy4x466 this will probably discredit anything I say about watches, but the Tudor royal 38 in blue. Went to go get on the waitlist for an OP but tried this on and loved it. Still do about 6 months later.
@@chevy4x466 this may seem me lose credibility, but the Tudor royal 38 in blue. Went to go put my name in for an OP and tried this on and loved the way it fit and looked. Honestly love this watch.
I can't imagine in what universe i would pay $10-20k for a Rolex that i have to send in every 5 years for weeks or months for"cleaning and maintenance" at a cost of thousands of dollars. That's not my measure of value or prestige. A few years ago, I thought about and discovered I wear that Rolex more than 3-4x a year. I didn't hate then but for me, is a waste of resources.
Great discussion. I traded both my SS date just and my wife’s 2 tone datejust for 2 breitlings that my 2 boys wanted about 10 years ago. They were graduating college and it was almost a straight trade - early 90s Rolex for brand new breitlings. Now they just wish I’d given them the Rolexes!
I don’t often comment but this is very well thought-through content. Intellectually, I like Grand Seiko but can’t work up the enthusiasm to pull the trigger. I think Rolex is a bit of a safe choice and overplayed but would pick up a green dial Datejust at retail in the unlikely event the opportunity presented itself. Funny old world.
6 months late and challenged with this. Glad I watched it through, as you understand the concern. The value is defined where? In the market with prices? Quality metrics like accuracy and flatness/sparkle. But it really is in making you smile.
Best advice: "Buy what you like." It applies to all toys. Another awesome video. Past $4000 you're paying for many things such as name, hand made or not, the metals used, diamonds, and marketing and scarcity BS, you are NOT paying for haute horlogerie.
When people who aren't already into this hobby ask about what to buy in this range, I always have the same advice: 1) Don't get into watches. 2) Buy what you really want, even if you have to save up or choose between waiting or paying a premium. Nobody needs to be in a hurry about this -- nobody needs a luxury watch in the first place. I envy the people I give this advice to and end up following it.
The high end audio references are spot on. The feel of the knobs on a preamp are important too. The look of a pearl paint finish on Wilsons look like money too.
My wife is an Omega woman, because Rolex uses 906L stainless steel, which has more zinc. She's allergic to zinc, so she threw the Rolex at me and told me to get her an Omega or Breitling. She now has both. Her Omega Aqua Terra shade is her favorite watch.
Love all the thought you put in your videos. You reveal a lot of topics anyone considering buying a watch at this price point should know. I personally look at the build quality in relation to the bang for the buck. I loath marketing and if I like a watch I just do. I do not need a corporation to tell me what watch or any product TBH I should purchase.
I try at least to add something new to the conversation. I don't profess to know the "truth" or be "objectively correct" but adding a perspective is what I want to achieve 😊😊
I think things are changing with Grand Seiko… lots of retailers are willing to invest in while GS boutiques now as opposed to the previous model where GS was a sub section of the Seiko section in a shop that also sold many other brands. This implies that there now is an emotional attachment to the brand. It is not just for enthusiasts as you said.
Agree to some extent - GS are going big in terms of trying to convince people they are worth a look, and in some areas they are definitely succeeding 😀
The more videos I see, the more convinced I become that I will be happiest on my extremely limited budget by getting a used Omega Constellation, having it refurbished, and wearing it daily. Wish it had a display caseback, but otherwise I feel like it’s got everything I want in a good watch. Plus, it lives up to your advice: “Buy what you like.”
Great video, as usual. In this space, I am 100% Rolex. My father and grandfather loved watches, and Rolex was the grail. When I graduated from med school, I was gifted a Rolex. When my daughter was born I gave my wife a Rolex. I have Omegas and Tudors, but Rolex has that special meaning. The watch that I am now saving for is the Santos de Cartier. Always wanted one, and as a Brazilian, the connection to Alberto Santos Dumont plays a massive role in the decision. As for you, keep up the good work.
Great content, thank you. So refreshing to hear interesting and intelligent views on the watch industry rather than another video on why you must own a BB58! Please keep them coming!
I’m surprised the Grand Seiko fans haven’t jumped on you for calling it ‘sterile’ to most mid and upper class looking for their luxury piece! 😊 I do agree with the branding perception, until you become a watch enthusiast, you wouldn’t look at the brand sadly. It’s well made, but sort of clinical - like a Toyota and Lexus. They do lack that luxury perception outside Japan, however I do think their market positioning now in the US is really geared towards the enthusiasts market, which is quite unique. What is your take on that? Great videos by the way, you’re one on the best watch channels out there with honest no nonsense approach. Keep it up, I’m now your avid supporter. 😊
Loved your comments on Identity. I wonder how the new Christopher Ward XII will sell at an almost $5k USD price point. Does the brand have enough Brand Identity?
Good question. It will likely sell out to enthusiasts, but I doubt it's a mass volume model. Skeleton dials are very niche - and it's not the point of the watch. The point is to demonstrate that they are serious watchmakers. That's my thinking at least😊😊
Although I mostly collect San Martin, Heimdallr, Steeldives etc. as they are within my retirement spend range I have Swiss watches in my collection from Hamilton, Certina, Rado and Glycine and nice pieces from Seiko and Bulova. Even if money was not an issue I would still gravitate towards watches rarely seen. One sees way fewer Breitlings or Tudors in the wild than Rolex or Omega. Great talk as always.
I am a Watch enthusiast and love to heard people who know more about these holy then me, you are definily a person with a high knowledge about these ! thank you so much for teaching all of us!!
I bought a Hublot Classic Fusion just because I liked the looks of the watch and fits nicely my daily clothing style and my wrist. I also own a Reverso and a Vacheron Traditionelle for wearing in my house and special ocasions. Thus, by far the Hublot has more wrist time, so this Selita movement is a great investment for me. Greetings from México!
I really enjoy these videos because they make me think back to my university days studying the economics of markets. When Mike explains the intricacies of the watch market I think his lectures (for that is what they effectively are) should be required listening for any economics undergraduate, just add in a few graphs and maybe some equations. In the basic economic theory of a "perfect market" there is a concept called "perfect information" which means every buyer and seller involved in the supply and demand of a "good" (watch) knows everything about that "good". A way to win in a market (successfully compete) is to either dominate or distort market information, Mike's talks make me think about stuff like this. Excellent. 😂😂😂 Mike's talks have made me think about my watch buying much more analytically. 👍🏻 Thanks Mike.
I think a watch is about the complete package, solid bracelet, case, movement etc. That’s all present with Rolex like you said in this video. It’s also the reason why I think Tudor and Longines will be taking a lot of market share in the lower/middle segment in the years to come. Every single new releases of these two have upgrades and eliminate the weaknesses the previous models had. Which is why they are getting closer to that complete package.
Spot on! I went shopping for a watch last month. I don’t have budget for Rolex but I was comparing Tudor and Omega Aqua Tera. The Aqua Tera was so beautiful I almost put my money on it. But after my wife went to fashion shopping, I ended up with a PRX and a Longines Hydroconquest GMT😢 I guess I just don’t have a deep pocket, but has to maximise that “perceived quality” within my budget.
I love these types of videos you do. These are the conversations I have with myself all the time when I’m thinking about the next watch I want to buy. For me it’s Rolex. I have 3 Rolexes and never questioned the purchases. I’ve always questioned the other watch brands I’ve bought(Tudor, breitling ,omega) and have subsequently sold most of them. The bottom line is Rolex is the best watch you can buy at retail. The fit, finish, accuracy, and value retention are second to none.
Some people in the comments would disagree that rolex is the best you can buy at retail. I would generally say, that they likely are with Omega more often than not being pretty much equal most of the time. Sometimes a little better. Sometimes a little under. But whether Rolex once just sourced all their stuff and their movements aren't high end finished. Fact is. They work for ages. The watches look good and the QC holds up. We can hate on them all we want, but pretending the watches are not objectively well made is a mistake 😊😊
I am not a fan of rolex but I do appreciate the quality of their watches, as you mention the weight is apparent. I love omega as I like the co.axial movement and the history behind it with George Daniels. Hence I want a omega However I tried a zenith and I adored it. I have around 20 or so watches, from casio, spinnaker, citizen Christopher ward, wryst to my vintage tudor Prince. All very different brands and movements. As you say buy what you like!
Excellent video, very sensible comments! It should be a must-see for any watch enthusiast. The online community suffers too much from „availability bias“, i.e. many don‘t realize that most consumers aren‘t watch geeks, and that enthusiasts praising Grand Seiko or whatever connaisseur brand doesn‘t make it a universally acclaimed manufacturer. I‘m tired of videos about whatever affordable watch being a „Rolex killer“, or of people commenting about their awesome $300-watch under a video about a $10k piece. This is non-sense because mechanical watches are a useless product bought based on emotions more than on reason, for most consumers that is.
Listening to your logic, I guess only one conclusion is possible: if you want to buy in this segment of the market, don't buy any of these brands unless it is a Grand Seiko and at least avoid Rolex like the plaque.
This was a really good video and I have to say as I learned about watches, I started to take a disliking to Rolex, thinking that you had more value with grand Seiko and other watches, but I think this video just convinced me that Rolex deserves more praise from us enthusiast than we care to give them. If I can sum up this video, I would say we as enthusiast should pay more attention to the ethics of watchmaking. Despite Rolex beginnings, you’ve convinced me that they have a more ethical standard of watchmaking. By ethical, I mean, not taking a vendors movement like you said about Cartier or Hublot and selling it as luxury when in reality it isn’t, but they just do it because they know, most people aren’t savvy buyers.
Whether it's a find on Ali Express or a much more expensive watch people will insist they have found better quality for less. I think your general thrust was that is not an easy thing to do since there is a great similarity in quality between similarly priced offerings. I agree.
As a woman and collector, I’m fed up with the laziness of brands when it comes to smaller watches. I want automatic, dammit. No, I don’t want diamonds on the dial or the bezel. Baby pink is exhausting. And yes, I love the Overseas, but $17k for quartz at Vacheron is just assault.
Well done and very informative. Happy with the GS. But then again I appreciate the fine craftsmanship, delicacy and dedication of Japanese arts, precision machining, making things to last, design (paintings, ceramics, kitchenware, cooking, gardening)
I love your channel. Very awesome analyzes. A friend of mine contacted the AD on the possibillity on getting a steel Explorer I in 36 mm. He could not, BUT if he wanted a two-tone or full gold watch they could help him. Pretty much like you said they would start to do, by expanding the precious metal line.
I was born in the late 80s and through media Rolex always came across to me as a symbol of success and as soon as I could afford a good watch I bought it. I’ve also dibble and dabbled in other symbols such as in fashion and quality disappointed but Rolex didn’t, pure quality I swim with my Rolex and it takes a beating and never disappoints, it’s kinds of like Mercedes pre 2000s. I love the product.
My second comment, good analogies. As an eclectic collector, one just has to find what is interesting for them. Examples include GS SBGA415, Oris Diver bronze OG Brashear, Tiffany & Co Atlas AG chronometer and Certina Chronograph and Omega vintage, no theme just appealing.
As always your intellect and analysis shines through. In addition to the content your delivery is so enjoyable to watch and listen to. Thanks for all the effort and thought you put into your videos. Cheers!🎉
Glashutte Original is the crazy one for me. You covered JLC in another video very well. GO just seems to be a brand where the quality far far exceeds the marketing hype it gets. Swatch group just seems to let the brand down.
A year ago, I bought a GS SBGJ239. Beautiful watch. However, I never fell in love with it. I sold it a couple of weeks ago and got a Rolex Air King..I lost a lot of $ on the GS. I absolutely love my AK...forget about what people say...buy and enjoy what you really like.
The “investor” in me is leaning in the Rolex Submariner because of its ability to hold its value; the practical side of me is looking at the TUDOR; my moderate side is thinking about the OMEGA Planet Ocean Chronograph…. My brain is spinning; if I could, I’d buy all three. All three have nice weight to them…. Thoughts and comments are welcome. Great video; new to the channel 👍🏼
Great observations, especially regarding Grand Seiko; however, I think Grand Seiko has better actual quality versus its perceived quality. I ignored them until in hand at an AD. Now I have 2 of them, while I'll get around to "a" Rolex, probably a Cellini date in gold and call it a day. Don't need their status and already have Omega and tool watchs.
This is a phenomenal video for new luxury watch buyers. I highly encourage people to share this kind of information with friends looking for that first or second luxury watch purchase.
You are right about Grand Seiko and Rolex bracelets. I really like Grand Seikos, but the bracelets frustrate me. I had four of them, and now just have one. I wear my Rolex a lot more often as the bracelet is amazing.
Thank you for sharing your valuable insights on the video. It is crucial to make decisions that align with your personal preferences and bring you satisfaction, rather than being influenced solely by the opinions of others. Particularly in the realm of watch collecting, it is essential to choose timepieces that resonate with your taste and style.
I bought a Rolex GMT 2 back in 2003 and loved it. But as time went on, I realised it was nowhere near as accurate as I expected, stamped clasp, rattly bracelet ete etc. Went back to Seiko's, Hamiltons stuff like that. But as a wedding present in 2006 my wife bought me a 1950 Omega bumper. Still works accuratley to this day. So had a hankering for a modern Omega. Sold the Rolex, got an Omega PO oo2 (tiger) and was astonished in the quality difference. Supremely accurate, solid links, a nice heft at 206g with my wrist size Metas and Cosc certified. No contest in my opinion.
A lot of sense in this video, it's true that the buyer can be taken in by the marketing of a particular brand. The truest statement is, only ever buy a watch that you like, never think of a watch as an investment because with the exception of a few brands, you will lose money.
Only started recently with learning about watches.. I always wanted to wait until I could actually buy a nice watch.. Eventually got a Santos XL from my girlfriend.. Am totally in love with it, I feel more myself when I wear it, even 1,5 year in I still can’t stop watching my wrist.. I bought a Tank as a daily wear watch to protect my Santos.. And eventually bought a gold ballon bleu for my girl to thank her..😅
I think there's a lot of hard truths people have a hard time dealing with. For example, for all the hate Rolex gets (and deserve) there is NOBODY even close that has the brand recognition that Rolex has. And I think for a lot of people that spend $7-15K on a watch care a lot more about having something with huge name pedigree than they like to admit. Its the same reason people wear the Lululemon and On Brand shoes around town. There's stuff out just as good for half the price but it doesn't signal to the world what you are wearing when they see that little Lulu brand circle or the On Shoes distinctive honeycomb sole of the shoe.
The key point in my vid about Rolex was that because Rolex is so dominant, in the eyes of a "normal consumer", all other brands are judged against the standard that is rolex.
Is it as reliable (as a rolex)? Is it as much a statement (as a rolex)? Is it as accurate (as a Rolex)? Whether Rolex is objectively better doesn't matter. People look at that Omega that they know little to nothing about and inadvertently compare it to.... Rolex. That's the power of marketing .😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatchthat's also the reason why you will find more enthusiasts among people wearing non-Rolex Swiss/Japanese/German/micro watchbrands than among people wearing Rolex. They generally care less about status and they already know that Rolex is not the pinnacle of watchmaking.
They (see previous comment) are wearing those watches primarily for themselves and not for others.
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch I think this may be your best video yet! Really great thesis and thoughts about all of this.
I do think there is an exception, and it's Cartier (and maybe a couple of very specific models from others, like Bulgari), which has a huge reputation outside of watches. Rolex doesn't have the same kind of cache with women as it does for men, and while the customer base is smaller, it is essentially up for grabs. Cartier is better positioned for that audience with its branding than most anyone else. It doesn't have to justify itself against Rolex the same way that Omega would.
Sorta a bad take. I wear lululemon’s cause of the balance of fit and quality. Also lululemon’s are $100usd pants for men…versus these $7-10K USD watches? Ummmmm. Also men’s lululemon’s don’t have a logo as far as I know
After almost 20 years absence of wearing a watch I decided to return to watch ownership in 2023. Previously I had no clue about movements or any technical know-how of watches so I decided to properly learn about the fundamentals and differences between watches. After much research I decided to move away from battery operated watches and focus on mechanical movements. This lead me to discovering the great marriage of mechanical and quartz - no battery needed but great accuracy - and purchasing my first and only luxury watch from a brand I did not even know existed - a Grand Seiko Spring Drive. It is beautiful, it does not require a battery, it is super accurate, and no one in my circle of friends even knows what I am wearing which is perfectly fine for me as I wear the watch for my own enjoyment and no one elses.
Absolutely 👍. All the talk about polished, shiny surfaces that look more impressive - to who?! I don't wear my watches to impress anyone but myself.
i prefer the anonymity of wearing zenith or iwc versus the apparent flex of wearing rolex. for me, i think that grand seiko has a similar and opposite problem in that seiko, like casio, is similarly widely known among watch muggles as a cheap and cheerful brand. i just can't bring myself to spend over $5k on a watch that most would associate with the jewelry counter at macy's. there's a reason that lexus isn't just called "toyota supreme." it's just not as cool as it would be with its own unique (and relatively obscure) branding, for me.
in summation: i don't want people knowing that my watch cost $5k. i also don't want people thinking that my $5k watch is a $500 watch.
@@m4ttyp4nts "
in summation: i don't want people knowing that my watch cost $5k. i also don't want people thinking that my $5k watch is a $500 watch."
Don't worry, non-watch people won't think either, because they won't even register the existence of the watch on your wrist. I'd go for that GS if I were you, it's enough if YOU know you have a quality product :)
@@zosothezephead837 exactly. One reason I am considering a Glashutte Senator Perpetual is that unless someone is a true enthusiast, they won’t know. And in my friend’s circle the brands known are Rolex, Omega, AP, Patek etc. No one knows any German brands.
I cannot leave home without a watch on my wrist, I almost feel naked 😂
You quickly became my favourite watch RUclipsr. Always competent, well informed, no nonsense, no hype. Just facts, observations and common sense (which is a rarity these days) garnished with a little bit of humor 👍
I feel the same. Spot on comment.
I try - thanks for the feedback 😊😊
Agreed. Excellent videos.
Absolute king this guy!
You are truly my favourite watch RUclipsr. Your views are always informed, non-sensational and logical! 👍👍
I concur
Very kind words, thank you 😊
Buy what you like. Best advice ever. I had the Speedy and SM300, because they were iconic, did not pull at my heart string. My Zeniths on the other hand, "flaws" and all, I look forward to wearing them and puts a smile on my face every time. Just because marketing got me in the door, the watches are what will ultimately make me stay.
Highly polished watch cases and bracelets are a great way to display all the scratches on your watch.
that is so true 😃😃
Hah! I buy titanium so I can have none of the polishing and still get scratches!
It’s like having a black car. If you can’t be bothered to polish it and take care of it, don’t buy it.
Damn. You just outdid 10+ years and 100+ RUclipsrs with this content. Great video!!
That's high praise - Thank you 😊😊😊
Really enjoy these, especially as I always follow the money for motivations, thanks
I bought a Grand Seiko. It's the only watch I own that cost over $600. Frankly, I would be embarrassed to wear a Rolex. I would consider an Omega or an Oris or a Monta or a Christopher Ward, but Grand Seiko was such a deal I went to it first. Especially right now with the yen at 158 per dollar. Grand Seiko is an incredible steal for Americans right now if you buy directly from Japan, even with the import tax.
I'm there with you, education and preferences. Rolex has a strong brand and social identity and it is not for everyone.
I bought a new GS SGBA461 direct from Japan as well. I was able to buy a used Tudor Glamour and a Hamilton Khaki with my savings on the GS.
I’ve inherited 3watches from my father and uncles who passed. A Rolex Oyster and 2 Omega Seamasters. I hands down prefer the Omega to Rolex.
I have GS, Oris, and Monta for those reasons.
I would love to check out purchasing from Japan, where would you recommend looking? Thanks
The allure of a ROLEX Oyster Perpetual GMT II pulled me into an AD’s shop, for the first time in my life, after retirement in 2021. I promptly got the ROLEX treatment from the AD. I instead, bought two TUDORs on the secondary market (a 1995 Prince Oysterdate Submariner and a 2021 Black Bay GMT). Regrets? Yes, they’re not ROLEXes; but, I am pleased knowing the AD will never receive any of my hard-earned money; and I spent half as much money, or less, for watches that are a good value for my money. I neither need the “approval” of a ROLEX AD, nor will I spend $100K just to be put on a waiting list for the possibility of buying a single, new ROLEX watch someday. You made a great video; and, I look forward to seeing more of them.
"They're not Rolexes"
Well no, but actually yes.
“shiny surfaces attract crows”
Great line, I hope you a good chuckle on that.
I get attention with my $200 metal cased Casio and zero from my GS or vintage timepieces. Shiny definitely attracts crows.
And some cats too. I woke up in the middle of the night one time and my friend's cat was very gently trying to take my silver ring off of my finger. LOL! The little stinker...
I was excessively proud of myself for that comment, yes... 😂😂😂
Heehee, true. I've actually learned how to put a mirror finish on stainless steel, so, sozatso polishing--or whatever it's called--adorns my travel mug now. (was a big job, phew)
@@verynormalmanIndeed, the crow(er)s are the Rolex wearers 😁
If bling and shininess were the most important factors in luxury, Invicta would be the undisputable king.
I'd say Breitling.
Dang, this was an awesome breakdown of brand perception and quality. I've owned watches from Omega, Tudor, Rolex, Seiko and many others. And for me, the best watch I own that I wear the most is my Casio G-Shock GW-5000U. I've started to slowly sell off my expensive watches because I just don't care about perceived quality or brand perception--real or fake--anymore. I just need a tough watch, that always works and is insanely accurate. That being said, I always love videos like these that breakdown consumer psychology. Very well done.
Thank you, and thanks for adding your two cents. 😃😃 Can't go wrong with a casio btw. 👍
Thank you for “opening up the casebacks” and sharing what collectors actually get from the $4-14,000 watches. Very illuminating…The other factor is after market resale value, even though watches are not investments, which reflects demand.
I was actually that first time luxury watch buyer who didn't know all that much about watches, but wanted something really nice from a famous Swiss brand. I was put off by Rolex _very_ quickly, mainly by the shitty attitude of AD's, but also because they seemed way overpriced compared to other brands in the same quality bracket. Also, heretical as it sounds, I just find their designs kind of "meh" - nothing wrong with it, but not interesting either. Cartier also didn't do it for me, although I do like the Santos, it lacked some features that I really wanted, like an open caseback (with a nice movement to look at), and lume. Grand Seiko designs are just not for me, though I do recognise their high quality. I like Zenith quite a lot, also some Breitlings, but at the end, I found that the brand that really ticked all the boxes on my list for a "one luxury watch" was Omega. Haven't regretted the decision, I think they are pretty much the brand that tries to cater for the most tastes and desires. For some that may be a negative (not such a clear identity, too big catalog), but for me, who's not a collector, it's a big plus: they will give me what I want, not what I'm _supposed_ to want.
I felt exactly the same way, ended up with aqua terra 38mm, blue dial. GS Skyflake was my huge dilema, but was feared will not look right on my 16.5cm wrist.
Get a JLC. The watch markers watch, the God father of horology. Producing movements for AP, Patek, VC for years. The most complicated movements for the most well known watch models. The top dogs of watch brand names/horology. JLC is subtle, classy, robust, iconic, highly respectable. JLC is one of the brands to have in a collection imo, can’t wait to buy my first JLC one day.
@@austincragin7391 JLC is great, but a wee bit expensive...
I am not a Rolex hater. I am also not beholden to them either. I do find it sad that regular buyers so often default to them and don't give other excellent brands some consideration.
Seamaster 300m over a Submariner any day of the week for me 😊
Great comments, a tag and Breitling, both pre loved, were as steep as I would venture. Hope to find an omega or ball soon and need help deciding.
In my experience, only watch brand that was recognized and commented among non-watch people (35+ years) is Casio Vintage series and G Shock. At one party I wore Casio 53W. That watch put smile on the face of people who were there with the SUB, golden President and AP RO.
Great channel BTW.
😅
Interestingly my friends who have gone into the automotive engineering sector tell me that car manufacturers spent millions developing that satisfying thud or clunk when you open and close a car door all in an effort to sound more premium. I think that's exactly what watch companies do as well. Because we "eat with our eyes" the tinsel of quality and success matter. You are quite right my friend. Quality is highly subjective. Having never shopped at the higher level (I did buy a date just a few years ago but that's hardly high horology) I would not be able to say what is great value right now. Hope you have a great Freedom Day and an awesome weekend!
The amount of time that has gone into the sound of a Merc door is ridiculous. It is one of the absolute key components to selling the car. 😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch If only they spent more time on the rest of it they would not be ranked as low as they are in reliability survey's haha! Strange how the times have changed! Hope you have a great one Mike!
Quickly, and you sir are one of my go to’s of RUclips. In the watch world I have had so many different RUclipsrs that I watched, but now you have risen to the top!!! Love your pure unadulterated truth, candor and no sugar coating the facts. Thank you sir. 😊
Always happy to hear that someone enjoys my approach 😊😊
Been a collector for donkeys at this point, your channel is the only one i watch! Mike you just make SENSE! Love it...Great content!!
Thanks a ton. Glad to hear I have your support 😊😊
And I enjoy the business and company reference points
Someone needs to send this video to the Bremont team. It perfectly illustrates why their new line is such an error. Just as the brand formed its identity and found its audience through the story they told - it’s destroyed in a week.
Funny things is - I cut a whole segment from this video diving into Bremont, discussing those exact challenges.
Their identity is “off” under the new ceo and for a relatively expensive watch brand they don’t convey luxury enough. Saw them at watches at wonders and was dissapponted with quite a few of the models
Cheers 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch i hope this means an upcoming episode for bremont, to hopefully knock the ceo off his high horse (or at least some sense into him) so Mr Davide can right the ship before impending shipwreck, which absolutely nobody finds joy in
@@randmacct636 I like the concept of giving them the opportunity to change course vs. bashing them.
Interesting re Bremont - assume previous model not working (never made a profit) and new VC money wanted a return - Bremont needs a new wider audience and I think this will disrupt the existing market - brave move.
The faux military connection is a big fail, giving your product to a bunch of pilots does not make it a brand of choice, I served 25 years in the RAF and can categorically state that pilots will grab anything for nothing.
Absolute first class video, presented by a true gentleman. Always enjoyable to watch.
Thank you
Thank you too 😊
I love your analogy of the sound a car door makes on a well build car. So true! You did not mention Lexus, but I drive one and listen for that "quality thunk" every time I close the door! :).... the concept does transfer to a watch feel and quality. We are a strange bunch for sure!!!! LOL
Thanks for bringing up Lexus. I drive a 2001 LS 430 and can honestly say its the nicest car I've ever owned. Maybe it's the more high-quality mass produced car ever sold? Sadly, Lexus doesn't make cars like they used to. My GX460's overall build quality pales in comparison to my old LS.
At a party, I noticed that 8 out of the 10 male guests had a Rolex on their wrists including me. That prompted me to explore alternatives to the usual suspects or at least the more rarified items in the catalogues of the usual suspects. This caused me to seek out independents like Habring2, Stefan Ketelaars, RGM and the new Danish brand Arcanaut. My Omega references currently include the Seamaster Bullhead Chronograph (which along with the Ploprof which I have also owned) is one of their eccentric references. Pre-2017 Parmigiani and Speake-Marin (with a Vaucher movement) references are in my watchbox. I seldom run into anyone who is wearing what I am 😂wearing and I like that.
In Denmark everyone just hypes up Rolex like there is nothing else.
I wouldn’t want a Rolex in this country looking at how many people get robbed of them. Referring to the Facebook groups. 😢
But seems like you got way more into watches and found what you really liked 😊 I am glad I found other brands too, and have completely forgotten about Rolex.
Just sounds like you bought a Rolex for the wrong reasons. Would you do the same with a car? Are you annoyed your neighbours have houses too?
Damn. You need new friends.
I had an interesting thought in my head the other day. Based on volumes - you are more likely to bump into a person wearing a Rolex than you are wearing a Tag Heur. Rolex sells 1.2 mill a year. Tag. Half that. If you want to be unique, different or appear exclusive - Rolex is counterintuitively actually not that exclusive, despite waiting lists at the ad... 😊😊
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch moral of the story: Wear a Tag, to stand out. Me, I'm acquiring a 20-year old 2000 series automatic, which should put me in rarefied company, indeed 🙃
I love your …”Days since last watch purchase” counter, Mike-reminds me of the “Days since last accident” health & safety signs that are commonplace in factories and warehouses in North America, in my experience at least 😅
Glad you like it. Quite enjoying throwing in easter eggs here and there for me more devoted watchers 😊
I bought a Pagani off a guy in a pub for £3000 and it’s lovely. 😊
😂😂
Man you have explained why the Tudor Pelagos FXD isn’t a good seller. It appeals to the enthusiast community BUT the average buyer is extremely turned off by a $4k watch without a bracelet! Makes a lot of sense.
I ended up buying it myself - but it's super niche as a watch. I wouldn't generally recommend it to most people - fixed lugs being a major reason 😀
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch and that is why I love it! Such a pure tool design
The question of 'worth' is one I struggle with all the time - what does a more expensive watch mean? Is this purchase a luxury I can enjoy or am I simply buying into a hype machine for the physical equivalent of NFT's? Adding in servicing costs for mechanical watches and it's one hell of a money sink.
The other aspect you mentioned - the 'identity' of the brand and how it changes how customers view it / themselves - I'm not one for that kind of marketing. This is why I don't think I'll ever buy a watch worth more than $1,000. Yet as an enthuasiast I can easily see a future where I own a box of watches worth the equivalent of a submariner. Would I be happier seeing the name Rolex or Grand Seiko on my wrist? Should I take that risk to see what's on the others side? Maybe I'm just not rich enough to play that game!
Love the videos and the questions / viewpoints they bring to light. Keep up the good work!
I think this channel has some of the best watch industry analysis on RUclips. Informed and well reasoned points throughout. Keep it up.
Much appreciated! 😀
Speaking about the average buyer: Once upon a time I was workin in the car claims department of an insurance broker. One day I spoke to some lady on the phone, and whilst I had already learned at that point, that it can't be expected that people would be able to differentiate between the liablitiy and the casco insurance (which already sounds easy enough for me: liablity is for everyone elses damage, casco is your own) - this "remarkable" lady made me learn that you indeed can own and drive a car yet do not have any clue what the COMPULSORY liablity insurance does at all. So, she needs to take one out, she doesn't get her licence plate without one, but she didn't know what it does.
THAT is indeed the level of insight the average Joe/Jane will have when walking into a watch store. Don't wanna step on anybody's toes here, but imho people can be incredibly ... well I don't know how to call it. Let's put it mildly: They think from 12 to midday and often show no interest of having a further glimpse into things. Sometimes, I am deeply worried about humanity as a whole. :D
Bingo.... Brilliant analogy 😊😊
Thanks a lot for your very interesting thoughts. I agree completly. Years ago I started with Casio and Citizen. Over Tissot, Maurice Lacroix, Junghans, Glycine etc. I came to TAG Heuer, Breitling and Rolex. Conclusion: ALL the watches work precisely since years and have a really good quality. The only difference is, that with a Breitling or Rolex you can show the the world what a "successful" guy you are. Now, I have started to sell the expensive ones and I will go back to my Casios and Tissots and use the watches for what they are really made: to tell me the time....
Thanks! I enjoy your comments as always. 😀
Another great one. Thank you.
Question. I’m sure some brands know their bracelets are lacking.
Why is it that they don’t improve? For example, the reason I’ve always been deterred from pulling a trigger on an Omega SM300 is the chunky non-tapering bracelet. I’m sure some like it. But this is a reoccurring complaint by many. So we can conclude that this is an issue. No one ever complaints about a submariner bracelet.
IWC heard and updated their Mark Pilot watches with better movement and tapering bracelet. Some brands do listen while for some it’s not as easy to integrate change sue various production and supply chain concerns
Thanks.
Bracelets? It's priorities and cost. Launching new and redesigned things constantly is expensive and the brands demand certainty that it will lead to better sales. Add to that, you don't want to go all in from day one, in stead spreading out your improvements to keep interest up. Innovations come slowly as a result and very rarely all at once. 😊
@@Pler1978 Not true at all. I know a few watch enthusiasts including myself that tried or owned Seamaster but moved to IWC, JLC and Tudor for better ergonomics. I sold my Seamaster for a Polaris and love it.
I’ll be honest, as someone in this upper mid space looking to buy their “I made it “ watch, I do have to admit that it is very difficult to discount the icon factor. This will be my third largest purchase of my life and yes, it would be nice for people to know what I’m wearing.
It’s brave of u to admit this. I mean, if u are a multimillionaire then sure overpay. If u r trying to impress shallow people, that is okay. U may be in an industry or a dating scene where this has value.
But I am guessing u r an intelligent guy. U might be further ahead wearing a watch that creates a bit of intrigue. Someone sees it, u get a compliment and asks u about the brand.
I am a casino dealer in Detroit. It’s a parade of watches north of 10k. Many of these men understand watch value. A Rolex date just won’t impress many.
However, I must admit. I do like Rolex , but there prices r insane. 20 years ago I was making good money Almost bought a sub mariner for 4k, or the iwc fleiger model for $2500. I should have bought the iwc. The days of getting a watch like that r over 😂😂😂
Oh, btw way…. What did u end up purchasing.
@@chevy4x466 this will probably discredit anything I say about watches, but the Tudor royal 38 in blue. Went to go get on the waitlist for an OP but tried this on and loved it. Still do about 6 months later.
@@chevy4x466 this may seem me lose credibility, but the Tudor royal 38 in blue. Went to go put my name in for an OP and tried this on and loved the way it fit and looked. Honestly love this watch.
As always spot on. Your content is the best of the lot in watch videos. I always feel that I've learned something new.
I can't imagine in what universe i would pay $10-20k for a Rolex that i have to send in every 5 years for weeks or months for"cleaning and maintenance" at a cost of thousands of dollars. That's not my measure of value or prestige. A few years ago, I thought about and discovered I wear that Rolex more than 3-4x a year. I didn't hate then but for me, is a waste of resources.
Mike, I really like your channel. You cut through the hype and give intelligent analysis.
I try, thanks 😊
Great discussion. I traded both my SS date just and my wife’s 2 tone datejust for 2 breitlings that my 2 boys wanted about 10 years ago. They were graduating college and it was almost a straight trade - early 90s Rolex for brand new breitlings. Now they just wish I’d given them the Rolexes!
For a moment I thought you were about to blame Hublot's brand image on Nico 🤣
😂😂😂
Nico certainly has his opinion of Hublot 😂😂
I don’t often comment but this is very well thought-through content. Intellectually, I like Grand Seiko but can’t work up the enthusiasm to pull the trigger. I think Rolex is a bit of a safe choice and overplayed but would pick up a green dial Datejust at retail in the unlikely event the opportunity presented itself. Funny old world.
Thank you. Happy you found it worth watching 😊😊
6 months late and challenged with this. Glad I watched it through, as you understand the concern.
The value is defined where?
In the market with prices? Quality metrics like accuracy and flatness/sparkle.
But it really is in making you smile.
Best advice: "Buy what you like." It applies to all toys. Another awesome video. Past $4000 you're paying for many things such as name, hand made or not, the metals used, diamonds, and marketing and scarcity BS, you are NOT paying for haute horlogerie.
When people who aren't already into this hobby ask about what to buy in this range, I always have the same advice:
1) Don't get into watches.
2) Buy what you really want, even if you have to save up or choose between waiting or paying a premium.
Nobody needs to be in a hurry about this -- nobody needs a luxury watch in the first place.
I envy the people I give this advice to and end up following it.
Don't get into watches. Best advice ever 😂😂
Supply and demand distorts the true value of any product. Rolex, case in point.
The high end audio references are spot on. The feel of the knobs on a preamp are important too. The look of a pearl paint finish on Wilsons look like money too.
When my wife asked if I shouldn't spend my money on audio in stead of watches, I just showed her a list of RCA cable prices. 😂
@ Lol, hilarious.
@ I would love to see an audio segment from you or learn more about what your dad did in it. And I won’t tell you what my speaker cables cost. 😂
This is my first time seeing a really , just honest review!!!!@
Glad you found it worth your time😀
I’ve just subscribed, so late to the party in catching Mike’s past posts. This excellent channel is the ‘one-and-done watch’ for watch enthusiasts!
Welcome aboard 🙂🙂
Spot on! Me and my designer friend are always talking about these things in products, and watches are not an exception.
My wife is an Omega woman, because Rolex uses 906L stainless steel, which has more zinc. She's allergic to zinc, so she threw the Rolex at me and told me to get her an Omega or Breitling. She now has both. Her Omega Aqua Terra shade is her favorite watch.
Titanium is the best option if allergic to zinc (or any other)
Love all the thought you put in your videos. You reveal a lot of topics anyone considering buying a watch at this price point should know. I personally look at the build quality in relation to the bang for the buck. I loath marketing and if I like a watch I just do. I do not need a corporation to tell me what watch or any product TBH I should purchase.
I try at least to add something new to the conversation. I don't profess to know the "truth" or be "objectively correct" but adding a perspective is what I want to achieve 😊😊
A wonderful, thoughtful approach to a murky topic. Really great channel.
Thank you 😊
I think things are changing with Grand Seiko… lots of retailers are willing to invest in while GS boutiques now as opposed to the previous model where GS was a sub section of the Seiko section in a shop that also sold many other brands.
This implies that there now is an emotional attachment to the brand. It is not just for enthusiasts as you said.
Agree to some extent - GS are going big in terms of trying to convince people they are worth a look, and in some areas they are definitely succeeding 😀
The more videos I see, the more convinced I become that I will be happiest on my extremely limited budget by getting a used Omega Constellation, having it refurbished, and wearing it daily. Wish it had a display caseback, but otherwise I feel like it’s got everything I want in a good watch. Plus, it lives up to your advice: “Buy what you like.”
Great video, as usual. In this space, I am 100% Rolex. My father and grandfather loved watches, and Rolex was the grail. When I graduated from med school, I was gifted a Rolex. When my daughter was born I gave my wife a Rolex. I have Omegas and Tudors, but Rolex has that special meaning.
The watch that I am now saving for is the Santos de Cartier. Always wanted one, and as a Brazilian, the connection to Alberto Santos Dumont plays a massive role in the decision.
As for you, keep up the good work.
Great content, thank you. So refreshing to hear interesting and intelligent views on the watch industry rather than another video on why you must own a BB58! Please keep them coming!
Only you can know whether you need a BB58 😂😂
I’m surprised the Grand Seiko fans haven’t jumped on you for calling it ‘sterile’ to most mid and upper class looking for their luxury piece! 😊 I do agree with the branding perception, until you become a watch enthusiast, you wouldn’t look at the brand sadly. It’s well made, but sort of clinical - like a Toyota and Lexus. They do lack that luxury perception outside Japan, however I do think their market positioning now in the US is really geared towards the enthusiasts market, which is quite unique. What is your take on that? Great videos by the way, you’re one on the best watch channels out there with honest no nonsense approach. Keep it up, I’m now your avid supporter. 😊
I've avoid the lynching so far... I try to be balanced but also share my opinion 😀
Spot on! The market speaks for itself. It’s all about supply and demand. Not even limited edition Omega or GS hold their value.
Loved your comments on Identity. I wonder how the new Christopher Ward XII will sell at an almost $5k USD price point. Does the brand have enough Brand Identity?
Good question. It will likely sell out to enthusiasts, but I doubt it's a mass volume model. Skeleton dials are very niche - and it's not the point of the watch. The point is to demonstrate that they are serious watchmakers. That's my thinking at least😊😊
Although I mostly collect San Martin, Heimdallr, Steeldives etc. as they are within my retirement spend range I have Swiss watches in my collection from Hamilton, Certina, Rado and Glycine and nice pieces from Seiko and Bulova. Even if money was not an issue I would still gravitate towards watches rarely seen. One sees way fewer Breitlings or Tudors in the wild than Rolex or Omega. Great talk as always.
Dear sir
You are the most knowledgeable in the scene.
Many thanks for passing us your unbelievable knowledge.
With great respect
Nizar
Very certain I'm not the most knowledgable in the watch space, but thanks nevertheless - very kind of you 😊
you are a wonderful teacher of the watch world, thank you for your knowledge !
You are very welcome 😀 just a nerd talking about his hobby 😀
I am a Watch enthusiast and love to heard people who know more about these holy then me, you are definily a person with a high knowledge about these ! thank you so much for teaching all of us!!
Your father was a smart man. Clearly understood the buyers of stereo equipment.
I bought a Hublot Classic Fusion just because I liked the looks of the watch and fits nicely my daily clothing style and my wrist. I also own a Reverso and a Vacheron Traditionelle for wearing in my house and special ocasions. Thus, by far the Hublot has more wrist time, so this Selita movement is a great investment for me. Greetings from México!
I really enjoy these videos because they make me think back to my university days studying the economics of markets. When Mike explains the intricacies of the watch market I think his lectures (for that is what they effectively are) should be required listening for any economics undergraduate, just add in a few graphs and maybe some equations.
In the basic economic theory of a "perfect market" there is a concept called "perfect information" which means every buyer and seller involved in the supply and demand of a "good" (watch) knows everything about that "good". A way to win in a market (successfully compete) is to either dominate or distort market information, Mike's talks make me think about stuff like this. Excellent. 😂😂😂
Mike's talks have made me think about my watch buying much more analytically. 👍🏻
Thanks Mike.
I think a watch is about the complete package, solid bracelet, case, movement etc. That’s all present with Rolex like you said in this video. It’s also the reason why I think Tudor and Longines will be taking a lot of market share in the lower/middle segment in the years to come. Every single new releases of these two have upgrades and eliminate the weaknesses the previous models had. Which is why they are getting closer to that complete package.
Spot on! I went shopping for a watch last month. I don’t have budget for Rolex but I was comparing Tudor and Omega Aqua Tera. The Aqua Tera was so beautiful I almost put my money on it. But after my wife went to fashion shopping, I ended up with a PRX and a Longines Hydroconquest GMT😢 I guess I just don’t have a deep pocket, but has to maximise that “perceived quality” within my budget.
My new favourite channel. I could listen to you chatting watches all day! 😂 👍🏻
The 'heard of it' HP printer comparison is bang on. Coworkers ask about my Omega, Rolex, and sometimes Panerai. No others
I love these types of videos you do. These are the conversations I have with myself all the time when I’m thinking about the next watch I want to buy. For me it’s Rolex. I have 3 Rolexes and never questioned the purchases. I’ve always questioned the other watch brands I’ve bought(Tudor, breitling ,omega) and have subsequently sold most of them. The bottom line is Rolex is the best watch you can buy at retail. The fit, finish, accuracy, and value retention are second to none.
Some people in the comments would disagree that rolex is the best you can buy at retail. I would generally say, that they likely are with Omega more often than not being pretty much equal most of the time. Sometimes a little better. Sometimes a little under.
But whether Rolex once just sourced all their stuff and their movements aren't high end finished. Fact is. They work for ages. The watches look good and the QC holds up. We can hate on them all we want, but pretending the watches are not objectively well made is a mistake 😊😊
I am not a fan of rolex but I do appreciate the quality of their watches, as you mention the weight is apparent.
I love omega as I like the co.axial movement and the history behind it with George Daniels.
Hence I want a omega
However I tried a zenith and I adored it.
I have around 20 or so watches, from casio, spinnaker, citizen Christopher ward, wryst to my vintage tudor Prince.
All very different brands and movements.
As you say buy what you like!
Excellent video, very sensible comments! It should be a must-see for any watch enthusiast. The online community suffers too much from „availability bias“, i.e. many don‘t realize that most consumers aren‘t watch geeks, and that enthusiasts praising Grand Seiko or whatever connaisseur brand doesn‘t make it a universally acclaimed manufacturer. I‘m tired of videos about whatever affordable watch being a „Rolex killer“, or of people commenting about their awesome $300-watch under a video about a $10k piece. This is non-sense because mechanical watches are a useless product bought based on emotions more than on reason, for most consumers that is.
Grand Seiko Spring Drive. Gotta have one some day as it represents superb innovation in precision timekeeping.
Listening to your logic, I guess only one conclusion is possible: if you want to buy in this segment of the market, don't buy any of these brands unless it is a Grand Seiko and at least avoid Rolex like the plaque.
Love Cartier, Piaget, JLC. Design in itself is a usp. Which for me trumps the mechanical value proposition, most enthusiasts tend to seek.
This was a really good video and I have to say as I learned about watches, I started to take a disliking to Rolex, thinking that you had more value with grand Seiko and other watches, but I think this video just convinced me that Rolex deserves more praise from us enthusiast than we care to give them. If I can sum up this video, I would say we as enthusiast should pay more attention to the ethics of watchmaking. Despite Rolex beginnings, you’ve convinced me that they have a more ethical standard of watchmaking. By ethical, I mean, not taking a vendors movement like you said about Cartier or Hublot and selling it as luxury when in reality it isn’t, but they just do it because they know, most people aren’t savvy buyers.
Glad you enjoyed the vid 😀
Whether it's a find on Ali Express or a much more expensive watch people will insist they have found better quality for less. I think your general thrust was that is not an easy thing to do since there is a great similarity in quality between similarly priced offerings. I agree.
As a woman and collector, I’m fed up with the laziness of brands when it comes to smaller watches. I want automatic, dammit. No, I don’t want diamonds on the dial or the bezel. Baby pink is exhausting. And yes, I love the Overseas, but $17k for quartz at Vacheron is just assault.
Yeah... brands do generally assume that women don't care about movements and that diamonds will do the trick 😊
Well done and very informative. Happy with the GS. But then again I appreciate the fine craftsmanship, delicacy and dedication of Japanese arts, precision machining, making things to last, design (paintings, ceramics, kitchenware, cooking, gardening)
I love your channel. Very awesome analyzes. A friend of mine contacted the AD on the possibillity on getting a steel Explorer I in 36 mm. He could not, BUT if he wanted a two-tone or full gold watch they could help him. Pretty much like you said they would start to do, by expanding the precious metal line.
Bingo 😊
I was born in the late 80s and through media Rolex always came across to me as a symbol of success and as soon as I could afford a good watch I bought it. I’ve also dibble and dabbled in other symbols such as in fashion and quality disappointed but Rolex didn’t, pure quality I swim with my Rolex and it takes a beating and never disappoints, it’s kinds of like Mercedes pre 2000s. I love the product.
Another smash hit. Your vids keep getting better and better, with each current one surpassing the last.
Thank you,
Chris
Humble thanks from my side to a long time supporter 😊😊
You are the 'Rolex' of watch reviewers. Love your videos. Informative, educational and above all, objective.
Rolex of watch reviewers? So that means unavailable plus hated by half the community? I hope not 😂😂😂
My second comment, good analogies. As an eclectic collector, one just has to find what is interesting for them. Examples include GS SBGA415, Oris Diver bronze OG Brashear, Tiffany & Co Atlas AG chronometer and Certina Chronograph and Omega vintage, no theme just appealing.
As always your intellect and analysis shines through. In addition to the content your delivery is so enjoyable to watch and listen to. Thanks for all the effort and thought you put into your videos. Cheers!🎉
Thanks again 😀
Glashutte Original is the crazy one for me. You covered JLC in another video very well. GO just seems to be a brand where the quality far far exceeds the marketing hype it gets. Swatch group just seems to let the brand down.
I am a very big fan of GO.... 😊😊
A year ago, I bought a GS SBGJ239. Beautiful watch. However, I never fell in love with it. I sold it a couple of weeks ago and got a Rolex Air King..I lost a lot of $ on the GS. I absolutely love my AK...forget about what people say...buy and enjoy what you really like.
The “investor” in me is leaning in the Rolex Submariner because of its ability to hold its value; the practical side of me is looking at the TUDOR; my moderate side is thinking about the OMEGA Planet Ocean Chronograph…. My brain is spinning; if I could, I’d buy all three. All three have nice weight to them…. Thoughts and comments are welcome.
Great video; new to the channel 👍🏼
You put a lot of thought into to this one Mike, you’ve had some great videos but this one is a masters class on the watch industry, well done!
Glad you liked it - It's always a little nervewracking to put videos out there and see if they resonate. 😊
Great observations, especially regarding Grand Seiko; however, I think Grand Seiko has better actual quality versus its perceived quality. I ignored them until in hand at an AD. Now I have 2 of them, while I'll get around to "a" Rolex, probably a Cellini date in gold and call it a day. Don't need their status and already have Omega and tool watchs.
My most expensive watch is the Daytona but my most loved watch is CW DBR1
You are a joy to listen to. Thank you for making videos and sharing your knowledge.
This is a phenomenal video for new luxury watch buyers. I highly encourage people to share this kind of information with friends looking for that first or second luxury watch purchase.
Thanks for that. Really appreciated 😀
You are right about Grand Seiko and Rolex bracelets. I really like Grand Seikos, but the bracelets frustrate me. I had four of them, and now just have one. I wear my Rolex a lot more often as the bracelet is amazing.
Please keep doing what you're doing here. You're the most objective watch guy in RUclips I've encountered
Thanks - I'm trying to be at least 😊😊
I love the content every week! Bonus is hopefully, hearing Mike pronounce the full name if JLC😊 Smooth, Mike, well done!
Somebody thinking I pronounced something correctly? That's rare 😀😀😀
Thank you for sharing your valuable insights on the video. It is crucial to make decisions that align with your personal preferences and bring you satisfaction, rather than being influenced solely by the opinions of others. Particularly in the realm of watch collecting, it is essential to choose timepieces that resonate with your taste and style.
Very enjoyable analysis today! Great work 😎
I bought a Rolex GMT 2 back in 2003 and loved it. But as time went on, I realised it was nowhere near as accurate as I expected, stamped clasp, rattly bracelet ete etc. Went back to Seiko's, Hamiltons stuff like that. But as a wedding present in 2006 my wife bought me a 1950 Omega bumper. Still works accuratley to this day. So had a hankering for a modern Omega. Sold the Rolex, got an Omega PO oo2 (tiger) and was astonished in the quality difference. Supremely accurate, solid links, a nice heft at 206g with my wrist size Metas and Cosc certified. No contest in my opinion.
A lot of sense in this video, it's true that the buyer can be taken in by the marketing of a particular brand. The truest statement is, only ever buy a watch that you like, never think of a watch as an investment because with the exception of a few brands, you will lose money.
Only started recently with learning about watches.. I always wanted to wait until I could actually buy a nice watch.. Eventually got a Santos XL from my girlfriend.. Am totally in love with it, I feel more myself when I wear it, even 1,5 year in I still can’t stop watching my wrist.. I bought a Tank as a daily wear watch to protect my Santos.. And eventually bought a gold ballon bleu for my girl to thank her..😅
this is the best expert watch content i’ve seen. look forward to saturday.
Favorite watch channel by a mile, after watching only two videos - thank you for the care and content
thanks for the praise. Appreciated 😀