WHY ARE CANADIAN CITIES IGNORED FOR NHL RELOCATION AND EXPANSION?
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- Опубликовано: 11 апр 2024
- With the Arizona Coyotes potentially moving to Salt Lake city... are Canadian cities being ignored too much by the NHL for relocation/expansion purposes? Brian Hayes and Gino Reda discuss the topic on 7-Eleven That's Hockey.
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This guy is such a cry baby. Tons of Canadian players have all 7 Canadian teams on their no trade lists. It’s not a mystery why they aren’t expanding there. Nobody wants to live there and pay half of their salary to taxes. That’s why players flock to the Stars, Panthers, and Knights.
Adjust contracts based on the local, regional, and federal taxes. That not only helps even things out for the players but it would do so across states and provinces. The salaries are already in USD on both sides of the boarder, it's just the taxes throwing things off.
@@TheCrazyCanuck420 he also said live there....
Atlanta gave Canada 2 teams - Calgary & Winnipeg. 😉
Hmm, Quebec city may be hoping Atlanta gets another franchise.
Atlanta may have to settle for an AHL team. Right now, it has an ECHL one. An NHL team just wasted the city bigtime.
What was the original Jets origin story? Know the Atlanta Flames relocated to Calgary but Jets had their roots in Winnipeg organically.
@@trentreimer130 I think we're probably missing an obvious and painful point of Ottawa. if they're having such a bad time filling the seats or getting a new owner to commit, maybe they can simply go across the province. Some of the installed base fans are likely very close to two of the arenas. .
@@MisterMister5893 WHA
Not rocket science....Quebec has highest tax rates in country and the government is overbearing.
Still the Canadiens are the third most valuable franchise in the NHL. Tax rates don't matter as much as the market does. It's better to pay higher takes with a full arena, several tv contracts and a good exposure than to pay lower taxes in a city where few people care about hockey. Finance 101.
@@Fran-td7xv a team that has existed for 115yrs is not comparable. They have had over a century to build the wealth and adapt with the market. A new Canadian team will never have anything in common with an original 6 team.
@@shawnw573 Good point. I agree that you can't compare the two. But as far as NEW TEAMS are concerned, I think a new team would fare better in a good hockey market like Quebec City or the Toronto metro area, than in Utah.
As a québécois it would be amazing the fans will be hardcoreeee
But we canada are in no shape right now@Fran-td7xv
@@redoqc hmmm i wonder why that is , oh yea cause you dum dums keep voting liberal and ruining our country ,if the west split from the east you guys would be 4th world in less than 3 years no more alberta oil money to send over seas .
Why the SLC hate? Utah loves their sports. They have been screaming for another pro team for decades.
Biggest under-served market for all sports. I can see why they are literally trying to land a franchise for all of the Big 5 leagues... MLS, MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL...
When Quebec City's population reaches 1 million, then we can talk about them getting a franchise again. With the Canadian dollar at $0.73 US, anything less is just asking for financial troubles and yet another relocation down the road.
Quebec city’s region (cities located at around 40 min and less of Centre videotron) has a population of 1 010 000
list of NHL teams that lost the most money from 2013 to 2022:
- Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix) - $115.2 million in losses the most money lost in that period
- Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles)
- Florida Panthers (Miami)
- Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh)
The NHL team to lose the MOST money in history?
- Atlanta Thrashers ($130 million USD losses between 2005 and 2010)
turns out 800 thousand Canadians support hockey better than 4.8 million in Phoenix or 6 million in Miami lmfao 🤣
Google this "forbes business of hockey" they have numbers you can look at to inform yourself next time
You realize all contracts are in USD regardless of country right?
@@brandonparlee1710 That's the point, with the CAD$ at 73 cents and all costs in USD it's tough to compete. It's almost impossible to compete in Quebec because no free agents want to sign there. The number of no movement clauses to Montreal would blow your mind.
@@DonaldMains But they make USD in Canada so every dollar they get is stretched further
It’s insane how badly you guys just fundamentally misunderstand this business. The reason Canada does not get teams is not because we don’t have enough hockey fans, it’s exactly because we have enough hockey fans. All those people in Quebec who would support a Quebec hockey team ALREADY support the Montreal Canadiens or the Colorado Aves or any number of teams because Canadians like hockey. There’s no point putting a hockey team in a hockey town financially because the people there are ALREADY hockey fans so you arnt adding any new customers just changing which jersey they buy, there’s no extra profit in that.
The NHL and Bettman want to put hockey teams in places that DONT already like hockey because then they can add fans, add customers, as opposed to just have customers you already have buy a different jersey. If they put a hockey team in Quebec, yes the hockey team would be very popular, but again it wouldn’t add any new fans of hockey, just take fans who already watch hockey and give them a different team to support. That’s a lateral move which in business is pointless. If you really want a hockey team to come to your town you need to make the NHL think that your town DOESNT already like hockey.
Saying your town can easily fill a stadium and constantly talking about how popular a team would be in your town is HURTING your chances of ever getting one. Not to mention Canada already has a way higher proportion of hockey teams to population, 3x more teams per person than the US in fact, so if anything we have TOO MANY teams. People in Quebec watch hockey and support the Canadiens and Aves already, giving them another team is pointless as it will just split the existing fan base between 3 teams without adding many, if any, new hockey fans. Not to mention that most Canadian provinces have a smaller population than most US CITIES, so the potential growth in the US is literally orders of magnitudes higher.
It’s the same reason we only have one baseball team and one basketball team, it would be financial suicide to add another one of them because there isn’t enough people in Canada. We are extremely lucky to have as many hockey teams as we do. We have a hockey team for every 5 million Canadians where as the US only has a hockey team for every 15 million Americans.
Maybe it’s because the guy buying the team is from Salt Lake City, I wish these guys would stop playing the victim
The most recent relocation was to a Canadian city?
And the two latest expansions...?
@@SkateQrew they have the money if Canada wants a team someone needs to pony up. If it means you have to have 2 billion CAD, then you need that amount.
@@SkateQrew Seattle is basically South Vancouver.
Yes, the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg
@@gbalph4 This is 100% it.
It's not money, it's geography. The Coyotes are in the western conference, Salt Lake is in the west, Quebec in the east. Do you really think the league would go 15-17 in their conference setting? Now if they do an expansion, Quebec will get a team. However, Ottawa and Winnipeg showed that small canadian markets lose money and bring no new audience to the league. The only reason they might go to Quebec is if they have nowhere else to go on the east.
thats cute you think that
Detroit was once in the Western Conference
@@Robert-lg5xu Detroit stated they would never go back to the west
@@Robert-lg5xu yes but they spent years trying to get in the eastern conference, Now that they are there, they will never accept to go back in the west.
@@Robert-lg5xu...and Toronto.
There’s many reasons why this makes sense:
- Same general area as Phoenix so no need to redo the divisions/conferences
- Cold weather in Utah means there’s potential for hockey I think this team can do well in SLC
- Despite only being the 41st largest metro in the US it is still significantly larger than any Canadian city that doesn’t currently have a team
- Economy is better with lower taxes, citizens have better purchasing power, and the Canadian dollar is weak at the moment compared to the dollar
- Expands geographical footprint to grow the game which Bettman said bluntly is what he’s trying to do
- No language laws in US markets like you see in Canada especially with a market like Québec City
-The State government is throwing truck loads of cash at Smith to build a new arena in hopes of getting the Olympics
-SLC is the second fastest growing city in the U.S.
-Statistically the youngest city in the U.S.
-Larger media market than Las Vegas, Buffalo, and Pittsburg
-Natural position for rivalries with both Colorado and Las Vegas
-Smith has been lobbying to get an NHL team for years, and has everything set up so they can play as soon as possible
-There is a lot of movement between Utah and Arizona with a lot of familial connections, so fan overlap is guaranteed
Plus the ECHL team in Salt Lake City has done well despite the AHL robbing their former division rivals...
SLC has been making noise and I havnt heard a thing out of Quebec from a potential owner for a while now......
SLC came out of no where so it went everywhere, Qc is screaming so bad for a team for like 10 years it became white noise haha so imo its more something like that
finance minister of Quebec eric girard met with bettman THIS week....
@@Habebandebardown money is the difference. Anyone in Quebec have the money?
Was there a group that could top the 1.2B that came from the slc group.
Didn't think so. Your empty words ring hollow.
@@gbalph4 that's the reality...salt lake is getting the winter olympics in 2034 and with it billions to build infrastructure...that's why salt lake city, a city with NO HOCKEY CULKTURE is getting an NHL team...money talks
that's the only reason
those mormons are swmiming in money
Canadians are going to hate the drinking laws and nudity laws hahahahahahahaha
I've been going t strip clubs since 18....Utah can suck it hahahaaha
I’m Canadian and find it hilarious how little these guys know about sports economics. Hamilton and Quebec don’t hold a candle to atleast 5 American cities without a team. Popularity doesn’t correlate with financial success. The nhl is going where the money is just as they should.
Yeah, and how much have the Panthers made for the League since they began playing and why are they of less value than all seven Canadian teams?
I find it hilarious how Canadians like you aren’t patriotic like Americans. No American would be saying what you’re saying. It doesn’t even look like you cheer for a Canadian team. Your opinion is invalid.
What a loser you are 🤡 move to America clown.
@@Kwolf1 the best way to see the stanley cup!
@@alexanderscavello6253 congrats bro, it’s not much of a flex when there’s 25 American team and 7 Canadian ones also while having American patriot help you out. It would be more of a flex if it was 16 Canadian teams and 16 American teams
loser 🤡
Just want to own up to the fact I'm one of those Canadian hockey fans that has spouted a lot of conspiratorial comments in Mr. Bettman's direction. But when you hear from Canadian managers who actually work with him and can share an informed point of view, those conspiracy theories quickly look like rubbish.
Yeah no Bettman is not in any way shape or form anti Canadian. All those conspiracies about him are garbage.
The league needs to expand into america and dominate the markets there in order to become too big to fail like the NFL. That's the game plan.
Canada isn't going anywhere. It will always be there. When the time is right Canada will get new teams. It's not a matter of if. It's a matter of when.
Brian Hayes - stop crapping on SLC. It's the fastest growing state and has the #1 economy in the United States. Show me the numbers that say Quebec City is better than SLC.
Because quebec city is the same size as winnipeg, has fewer corporations and winnipeg fans already cannot fill their arena for a team that's in the playoffs.
yeah but Quebec would have their own french channel, a bigger arena than winnipeg and juste the Qc-Mtl rivavalry would bring interest, sad to say but winnipeg has no massive rival like Mtl would be to Qc
@@Habebandebardown oh yes, a french channel will so help the english speaking people wanting to watch. Also bigger arena doesn't matter when only 13,000 people can afford tickets
@JarradBruessel32 you cant compared . Winnipeg are not a rich city . Quebec city have the lowest unemployment rate in Noth america and are the capital of Quebec province and have alots of provincal fonctionnaire jobs . good jobs. people who can bye tickets. And the province of Quebec are the second most populated province in Canada and the people from everywhere in the province go watch Nordiques games.
Winnipeg filled the building for over 330 consecutive games. Then post-Covid inflation hit the market harder than most others.
Winnipeg will recover. As for Quebec City, they will be treated like Winnipeg by the NHL...as an emergency backup.
the SMALLEST market in the NHL - Winnipeg - with 800k people generates more revenue for the NHL than:
- Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix)
- Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles)
- Florida Panthers (Miami)
- Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh)
THE SMALLEST MARKET IS MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN MIAMI....
Winnipeg generates more profit than Miami or Los Angeles or Phoenix...(or Atlanta)
I genuinely think Americans are stupid. I never used to think that, but something happened and now you ALL sound dumb. The education system got worse?
Why can't any of you string together an intelligent thought?
San Antonio-Austin would be a GREAT spot for Football....
Florida doesn't support Baseball.
Winnipeg generates more PROFIT than Los Angeles, Phoenix or Miami...
Anyone with a brain can see that. If that doesn't make sense to you, I imagine you have VERY low IQ....(American education system sucks, you people are idiots)
Maybe because Canada has 38 million people with 7 teams already a new Canadian TV is not going to bring in more revenue than a new major US market especially when it comes to TV let’s be real
A move to Canada does not “grow the pie”. There are no new hockey fans to be found in Canada. That’s why it makes more sense to find a large U.S. city.
This obsession with constantly trying to grow the game by stuffing teams in unproven markets is what's driving this league into the ground in the first place. It should not matter that new fans won't be generated by giving them another team. The league has a product that a Canadian city wants and can pay for. Growing the game doesn't need to involve placing a team in a new market and hoping it works out. Hockey originated in Canada. It is ludicrous to keep denying them a team simply because they won't bring in new fans. It's time to think about the fans that are already there. The league will not go bankrupt if Canada gets an 8th team. The league will not lose fans if Canada gets an 8th team.
@@pomerlain8924 hoping the league acts like a nonprofit while being in a billion dollar business is wishful thinking.
So Canadians should be punished for watching hockey? Makes sense.
@@pomerlain8924 Dallas? Florida Teams? Washington? Cali? The game has taken strides as a result of this expansion.
@@StankyMcGassy-eg3oi Nonprofit? That's what the Coyotes were. 27 seasons and not ONE profit. Hundreds of millions of dollars lost and not a single profitable season. That's about as nonprofit as it gets. Name a Canadian team that's gone that long without turning a profit? And who had to help subsidize their losses through revenue sharing? All the profitable teams, which included all 7 Canadian teams, who make up a THIRD of the league's annual revenue. So thought it may be hard to believe, the Canadian teams are BIG part of the NHL's bottom line. Remove the Canadian teams, and the league struggling to stay above water.
The media might have insecure egos, but this Canadian doesn't. As a former business owner, when you invest in a business, you want to make a profit. With ten times the population, America is a much better choice. Get over trying to pass the stale Kool-Aid. Canada is more than good with its teams.
Someone having logic in a comment section? What a refreshing sight to see haha
I hate when peoples feelings get in the way of business.
Quebec City has one major problem: The Habs. They will never allow another team in Quebec
Incorrect Molson said he’d be more than okay with it. You realize he sells beer right? And hockey fans buy it. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get the contracts to sell beer in the arena and only Coors/Molson
Its business take out the emotion
@@ktowniecity7269 Of course he would say that publicly. Almost like he knows that saying, "I don't want another team in Quebec" would be bad for business.
False. The battle of Alberta does fine. The battle of Ontario does fine. And the people of Quebec miss their battle of Quebec.
@@MikePurdue-ky9pm the people do, yes. They greatly miss it. What I'm saying though is that the owner of the Habs would much prefer to remain the only team in Quebec. Whether he says it publicly or not
@@ktowniecity7269Says out loud ya
It’s not that difficult to understand:
1. High taxes.
2. Small markets.
It’s why Quebec and Hamilton will never get NHL teams.
Not much of a growth of hockey their is possible.
Yet the Ottawa f’n senators have a nhl team over Quebec City…
Bottom 5 in attendance are the panthers, coyotes, sharks, ducks, and kings. LA, Bay Area, Miami, phoenix are some of the biggest markets in North America and still have attendance problems. Problem isn’t market size. You can have a 10 million population metro area but it doesn’t matter if nobody cares about hockey
@@gabew7480wrong. Check your facts. Florida, Tampa, Nashville, Vegas, LA Kings, Dallas, and Carolina are thriving. Anaheim and San Jose have bad bad teams. Bad teams mean lower attendance. Check your facts buddy.
@@Astincone Florida only had fans showing up this year. Carolina only started showing up 2 years ago. Anaheim and the sharks didn’t have many fans even when they were good. LA is middle of the pack even tho they’re a playoff team. Canadian fans show up whether the team is good or not. The 5 teams who lost the most money the past 10 years are all sun belt
I think Houston is a better market than Salt lake city or Quebec city but i am looking at it from a financial perspective. I think there are politics involved with the salt lake city winter Olympics bid for 2034. The owner of the Nba houston rockets has come out and said he wants an nhl team. I think the nhl might need to hire some MBA grads with a financial specialty.
The league does not need expansion. There are already several NHL teams with AHL level rosters, and many teams with low attendance.
Dude it doesn’t make sense to send a western team over to the Eastern conference when you have 32 teams and 16 teams conferences that would put 17 teams in the east and 15 teams in the west and besides Utah was ready now. Also if you look at the economic situation right now in CANADA it doesn’t make sense to or relocate a team north the border Especially when you got an expansion fee, how can be well over $1 billion and our relocation fee that’s looking like it’s gonna be over $1 billion as well it just doesn’t make sense right now. Put your Ego aside.
There are at least 10 Canadian cities that would fill a 20000 seat arena. Mr. Bettman would sell a USA franchise in a second to any city un the USA even if they have never had a Peewee Team.
Dude, Blue Jackets played 13 seasons in West
And sorry dude one more time, how about Detroit ? They played in West a long time ago
@@grownjohnboy a lot of US cities had hockey teams. Even SLC and Phoenix did before the NHL.
@@gbalph4 not talking about anything but NHL. My home town has played Senior Hockey since 1919. Mr. Bettman clearly wishes for NHL to be USA centric.
Canada has 12% of the population of the US and 22% of the NHL teams. The question is why does Canada have so many NHL teams.
Wild guess, because Canadians are more passionate about Hockey than Americans???
Hmm, what percentage of Canadians watch hockey vs Americans?
@@DonaldMainswhich means that the market is saturated. No new NHL fans to acquire here. The growth areas are all in the U.S.
maybe you should look into the history of hockey and the nhl.
@@BurtTurbo i don't know. Let's ask the Winnipeg Jets ticket sales reps
Because some billionaires in Utah actually have the money to back up an NHL team. Plain and simple, markets are difficult in Canada!
The Candian Dollar = $.73 USD
That's all you need to know.
Teams i small markets are tough but even tougher in Canada.
QC can be granted a team if Ottawa doesn't get their arena.
Rather have a small market team passionate about hockey than a large market that could care less about hockey like AZ
@@gabew7480 arizona cares. The issue is that the organization has made it damn near impossible to love them. From having 1 real playoff run in their near 30 years to not paying rent to constantly being a doormat for other teams to the arena issues to politicians getting in the way ever since they first came to arizona, it's been so exhausting. They need a good 5 years for someone to step in, buy land, put up an arena, and start it from scratch. Muerello was trying to get the land and was willing to pay for it himself the whole damn thing but the city of phoenix got in the way with the tempe deal because they wanted the coyotes to come to their city. Well now things have taken too long and the nhl has said enough is enough. The city of phoenix caused this with them blocking the tempe deal.
@@JarradBruessel32 they never really had fans to show up more deserving cities should get a team
@@gabew7480The issue with AZ is that the idiot owner built the arena out in Glendale.
Attendance is only half the revenue.
Where else will we put a team? Saskatoon or Regina? Victoria? East coast provinces wouldn't be able to hold up a team. The only real option would be bringing back the Nordiques, but is there really a point?
Hamilton or Kitchener. Somewhere in metro TO far away from downtown. Hamilton would work. If LA and New York can support more than one, so can Toronto.
@@lotsathedetox Perhaps Hamilton, it may have the cross border reputation. Kitchener doesn't stand a chance, the American audience would be like "kitchen what?"
Besides, Canadian cities have enough trouble on their hands with the crazy costs of living, there ain't no room in budgets to help build new arenas so private owners can make massive profits.
Quebec has a smaller population than ottawa and the first language is french. An expansion team would only take away fans from Montreal. If it was profitable they would obviously do it.. use your head
Ottawa has well over 1 million people. That isn't their problem. They built the arena way out in the suburbs instead of downtown or somewhere in the city core. That has really hurt their attendance. Edmonton and Calgary have basically doubled in population since the 80's and they did fine back then. Survived the low dollar in the 90's.
Edmonton and Calgary have a similar population compare to Ottawa, check your numbers
What a stupid analysis. First of all its not just about selling tickets, its about corporate dollars, television market, and future projections. The fact is Salt Lake City is a growing city, with a thriving corporate environment, a rich owner and a hockey ready facility. It makes sense to move there. Quebec City has a passionate fan base and a hockey ready arena and nothing else. No major corporations, no big television market. It will struggle to field a competitive team like Winnipeg and move in 10 years. The fact is NHL is now only viable in large metropolitian areas and cities where is a strong corporate culture. Small market Canadian cities wont work anymore.
L M A O What a stupid comment " It will struggle to field a competitive team " You just gave ur age away now put ur crayons down for a min , The QUEBEC NORIQUES were moved to Colorado right when they were reaching their peak and then the Avs went on to win the cup with pretty much the same line up so Quebec would be more than able to put a good team on the ice again .
well it would have its own tv channel and the rivalry Qc Mtl would bring more interest then any other city ever could so meh
list of NHL teams that lost the most money from 2013 to 2022:
- Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix) - $115.2 million in losses the most money lost in that period
- Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles)
- Florida Panthers (Miami)
- Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh)
- Sunbelt
- Sunbelt
- Sunbelt
- Sunbelt
The NHL team to lose the MOST money in history?
- Atlanta Thrashers ($130 million USD losses between 2005 and 2010)
- Sunbelt
I think more teams in Florida, and California....places where they lose money would work best.
Because there is very limited financial upside for the smaller market Canadian cities. Less population, less media coverage (especially for American Audiences). That said 32 teams is probably the ceiling and any more teams are going to dilute the product quality.
Boomers said the exact same thing about the original expansion in 1967 lmao
@@mvk4343 They did? And what would your point be?
@@mvk4343 And both are right. It's obvious; The more players you have in your league the more diluted it is.
Imagine if the NHL still only had six teams? How good would those teams be? Stacked with All Stars and the hockey would be incredible.
You’re right. The product already feels watered down. Just look at the rosters of the bottom 7-8 teams in the league.
@@jason893 except it wouldn't because most players now in the league come from areas that wouldn't have known hockey if it wasn't for the nhl. Your leading scorer being one of them.
I’m Canadian . Who cares . It’s business
I’m Canadian i care. Quèbec City could make the same if not more than Utah, it’s facts.
@@Kwolf1Well, it's not 'facts.' It's speculation.
@@Mrs.Currie Emotion trumps financial facts.....(taxes, exchange rates etc.) let him rest...
Stop pandering to ignorant Canadians for clicks. We have enough teams. Wouldn’t you prefer the game to grow instead of shrink?
I would prefer it to grow....in genuine hockey latitudes. Get out of the sun belt and put teams in places like Milwaukee.
@@FischerFanthe project took time on the west coast sunbelt but ultimately can be deemed a success . Let the guy who’s been good for nhl as a business continue to be . If Canadians had a say nhl players would be earning national lacrosse league money
@@FischerFan so what happens if the cold areas are losing population?
@@gbalph4 This is North America. Nobody is losing population.
Okay, maybe Detroit.
@@FischerFan 🤣
Answer: the loonie isn’t as valuable as the US dollar. Even in Vancouver some shops accepted USD.
Also hockey works in the Sun Belt. If you don’t believe it then you’re quite ignorant.
list of NHL teams that lost the most money from 2013 to 2022:
- Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix) - $115.2 million in losses the most money lost in that period
- Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles)
- Florida Panthers (Miami)
- Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh)
- Sunbelt
- Sunbelt
- Sunbelt
- Sunbelt
The NHL team to lose the MOST money in history?
- Atlanta Thrashers ($130 million USD losses between 2005 and 2010)
- Sunbelt
Also, Atlanta failed TWICE. And the Arizona Coyotes are in the process of relocating.
If you think hockey works in the Sunbelt, then you are quite ignorant.
You probably have never looked at Forbes Business of Hockey website before....thank God that website exists, so we don't have to take your word for things. 🙂
@@sampicano ok but all three California teams are financially successful, Vegas has worked out, Florida no longer loses money and Carolina got themselves out of the hole a few years ago. Remember when everyone said Nashville should go to Hamilton? No one calls for that now.
Arizona and Atlanta had bad ownership and would have survived if the owners cared.
@@sampicano list of ignorant Canadians who keep posting the same boring drivel over and over...
Canada has more social issue than the US? Like what?
@@BurtTurbo taxes, pay discrepancy, hounding players and their families if they do something to cause a loss, small markets, refusal to understand putting another team there doesn't grow the game one bit
What people don't seem to remember or realize is Bettman fought like hell to prevent the Thrashers from moving to Winnipeg. He spent at least an entire year trying to find an owner in the States. It was a "perfect storm" situation. No viable owner south of the border and a group and arena in Winnipeg ready to take them. Had the NHL not been running the Coyotes at the time, they no doubt step in and run Atlanta to prevent a move.
No bettman did not try to find an owner for atl. Atl. spirit group did and failed to find the local owner that would keep thrash in atl. like bettman wanted. And that wasn't happening since atl. spirit group wanted nhl out of their building. And yotes not atl. would have ended up in winnipeg had glendale not given in to bettman demands to keep yotes there instead. Bettman barely put up a fight for atl. with rumours beginning a year before about thrash re-locating. Meanwhile bettman fought for 15 years and finally lost after 15 lame duck seasons for az.
As Canadian who drives through the Wasatch Front/Salt Lake Metro area twice a year, spends time in Utah, it's a smart choice. Great business environment, low taxes, huge amount of young people moving there, high amount of household income, high youth participation in winter sports, etc. I could go and on, but these two, don't want to ever want to disrespect Gino, but they don't know the environment in that area at all.
I think with the exception of Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver, none of the cureent Canadian cites wpuld have been considered if they didn't have a team at this moment.
Calgary and Edmonton definitely have the money and population. They have seen rapid growth that is still ongoing. Calgary is over 1.5 million and Edmonton is about 1.4. Both are bigger than American cities. Ottawa would be fine if they didn't build their arena out in the boonies
Does moving a team to Quebec City move the tv needle at all ? Answer is no long term …there is no serious argument economically for this .
Yeah Winnipeg is working well right? We have enough teams.
Better than most sun belt teams
@@gabew7480 13,000 is not better than any of the sun belt teams lmfao
@@JarradBruessel32 Better than Pheonix. 5000 people. lmao
Where was the most recent relocation, the only one post-lockout, from and to?
Hayes is really being a dick about this. Crapping on Atlanta, SLC and Columbus in this. Take your Canadian bias glasses off for a second. I want a team in QC myself but a Western Conference team like the Coyotes were never going there. They can't be passed over if they weren't being looked at. That's like saying Britney Spears passed me over for Justin back in the 90's. Even if everything was equal, they aren't doing a 17/15 split and neither Detroit nor Columbus are going back West. It's not happening. You want to say it should be Houston instead of SLC, fine I hear you but it was not gonna be QC at this time. Maybe it never is either but it sure wasn't gonna be now with this team.
I also think Winnipeg is scaring them off right now. Only missed the playoffs once (twice if you don't count 2020) in the last 7 years are aren't selling out every night. I never would have thought that back in 2011 but here we are. They said from the beginning they needed to sold out pretty much every night. SLC is growing and has huge money and the possibility to grow the game. Again I want a team in QC but it's not so much more than just how popular the sport is there. You can say that sucks but with how much corporate money flows into some of these teams/markets, that's the reality of this business today.
Maybe what you should be mad at is the city of Glendale covering the losses of the Yotes back in 2010. If they don't do that, the Coyotes went back to Winnipeg and then you would have had the Thrashers siting out there one year later. QC might have had to be the landing spot back then.
Quebec has some strict language laws & it's not exactly a massive city. Salt Lake City hosted the Winter Olympics before. There's already a team in Montreal.
wtf strict language law? Its simple in Quebec, you can talk the language you want but not at work. For the city its not so massive but you don't understand that here in Quebec province people from everywhere in the province go watch the games in Quebec city . Its a passionate hockey market and who dont want revive the rivality Quebec vs Montreal. Quebec city have the lowest unemployment rate in all north america and are the most beautiful city in North america to
"sTrIcT lAnGuAgE lAwS"
it's larger than Winnipeg and Winnipeg generates more money than Florida, Arizona, Anaheim....all these terrible southern markets that parasite off successful teams.
@@quebecforce111 Why would Montreal want another team in Quebec? Remember Quebec only joined because of a merger which Montreal (like Boston with Hartford) wasn't happy about. I doubt Montreal management is beating on Bettman's door asking to give Quebec another try
@@quebecforce111 "But not at work" is a pretty big restriction when no other location in all of North America has to deal with it. What that entails is a lack of corporate sponsors and outside revenue. This is precisely the problem Winnipeg has right now, which is partly why the NHL was so reluctant to relocate back there. It just so happened they had no other alternative when Atlanta collapsed. Speaking of the corporate sponsors, less than a month Legault caused a massive uproar trying to force corporations to rebrand all their appliances to be in French which literally had them threatening to leave Quebec entirely if he followed through.
A lot of businesses don't want to deal with Quebec.
One reason is that some Canadian cities that could otherwise support the NHL are too small of a market.
Winnipeg wasn't ignored TSN, unless you forgot.
hey, quebec..... you already have the montreal canadiens.
And ? California has 3 teams , NY has 4 , Pensilvania has 2 , Alberta has 2 etc.
@realjamesbowned they have more due to economic output and population. French Canada should thank bettman every day they still have 1.
@@realjamesbownedNew York has 3 not 4
Bruh Alberta has 2 with a smaller population and Ontario also has 2 chillax bb
@@moodlampActualBruh Mtl is the 3rd biggest earner for the league
I guess it makes you feel good to talk shit about Bettman the way you do but the league increased in size 50% during his tenure, revenues soared and without him, you'd have 3, possibly 4 teams in Canada, not 7 so be careful what you wish for.
So in the 90s, if a Canadian was hired as the commissioner of the NBA and moved Jordan to Toronto and created multiple NBA Canadian teams and you didn't win for 30 years since he was hired, you're saying you'd be cool with it, ok.
@@James-nv1wf ?????
@@hughjass1044 Exactly
@@James-nv1wf well basketball has some Canadian roots…but they probably would have dipped like the Grizzlies since the league handicapped them and the Raptors for years. Even if it worked out we’d probably say the same thing you guys say American players bringing it home and American dominance at the Olympics mattering more.
Also Gretzky was traded to LA by Edmonton and agreed to it, it’s not the massive conspiracy you think it is. Get over it.
@@gbalph4 Well either way, I'm sure a few Americans would take issue with a commissioner from another country who kept pushing for teams only in his country. I can see both sides.
The Canadian economy is currently a dumpster fire, rn Winnipeg is in trouble
All but about 15% of the Jets' season ticket base consists of personal accounts due to a weak economy and a smaller corporate base than the other 6 Canadian NHL markets. If Winnipeg is having issues, I can't see how a Québec City club would be viable in the current environment.
Growing hockey in Canada is like growing weed in a weed garden. Everyone in Canada is a fan so you're now growing the game in a place like Quebec, therefore, you go to new markets like Salt Lake, Houston, Kansas City.
Hayes is completely out to lunch, and has no idea what he is talking about.
No NHL players want to play in Quebec City, no NHL teams want to have to travel to Quebec City, and no NHL owners see any value in having a franchise in Quebec City for a long list of reasons.
If you don't already know what those reasons are, then you shouldn't be on TSN That's Hockey screeching and squawking to a national audience like some wacko jealous ex-girlfriend.
Canada is in serious socio-economic decline, and Gary Bettman and his NHL owner bosses are all very keenly aware of those market dynamics.
The NHL is a multi-billion dollar business, where money talks, and b.s. walks.
As such, the Coyotes will soon be moved to Salt Lake City and will be just fine under Ryan Smith's ownership in Utah.
Houston and Atlanta will both get expansion teams, along with a third expansion team being awarded to Phoenix v2.0 under the right circumstances, which will allow Nashville to then move to the eastern conference along with Atlanta, while Houston and Phoenix 2.0 will be in the western conference to balance out the two conferences at 18 teams each.
Expect to see this all happen well within the next 10 years.
Count on it.
Class dismissed.
Drivel.
Contraction in the next 2008 style meltdown on Wall St. will blow 6 or more teams out of existence.
Oh I forgot ..... this time is different.
Like last time.
@@brianjones7660 Sure, keep sniffing that glue. Many predicted that the 2004-05 lockout would destroy the NHL. It didn't, and actually made it much stronger. The 2008 financial crisis in the US didn't result in any contraction either. The Canadian economy is far weaker than the US economy, and that gap will only continue to widen because Canada won't see any changes in its incompetent federal leadership until at least October 2025 at the earliest. NHL franchise values have steadily risen and gone through the roof since Bettman took over in 1993. Gary Bettman is smarter than Brian Hayes and you are.
$$$ Why would anyone want to open up a business in a country where the gov't wants 45% of everything you make.
Why would anyone want to live in a hot, flat, joyless state? I dunno either but half of the USA and Canada does... BARF!
Lack of a billionaire ownership group willing to step up to deal with the goofy Quebec government
The reason the Coyotes are going to Salt Lake City is because the person who bought the team also owns the Utah Jazz NBA team.
There's one factor no one has taken into consideration: the weakness of the Canadian dollar in comparison to the U.S. dollar. One U.S. dollar is worth $1.33 or $1.34 Canadian. Canadian teams also pay their employees in U.S. dollars while money taken in is in Canadian dollars, so they are getting killed on the exchange rate.
Winnipeg is the smallest market - 800k and uses CANDIAN dollars...
Winnipeg generates more revenue for the NHL than Florida panthers (Miami), Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles), Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh), Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix)....or Atlanta for that matter.
So...a city with 800 thousand people - using Canadian currency generates more money than Los Angeles, Phoenix or Miami....hahahahahahahaha
That's SO IMPRESSIVE. Winnipeg is a WAY better hockey market than Miami or Anaheim hahahaha
Winnipeg had the BISONS (University), MOOSE (AHL), JETS (NHL) and the ICE (WHL)....that's crazy how many hockey teams they had and still generated more profit than MIAMI....or PHOENIX....hahahahahahaha
@@sampicano so by this logic should the sens who draw the second least revenue in the NhL be moved ? Why not move them to Quebec City ?
@@wrotoeshaw9270 so by this logic should the sens who draw the second least revenue in the NhL be moved ? Why not move them to Quebec City ?
That is a lie.
Forbes Business of Hockey is open on my web page right now.
In the last DECADE these NHL teams lost the most money....
- Arizona Coyotes ($115.2 million in losses and they are relocating hahaha)
- Florida Panthers
- Anaheim Ducks
- Carolina Hurricanes
Those teams lost the most money between 2013 and 2022...
Ten years and they are all NET LOSS.
Ottawa Senators generated revenue for the NHL between 2013 and 2022.
@@sampicano what about recently since ottawa has been in a rebuild? They have had pretty bad attendance since 2021
@@sampicano where will they move, do you think?
They are circling the drain.....
Mr Cut 'n Paste is at it again.....
The last team to relocate literally moved to Canada 😂.
This is just Quebec being mad about the Nordiques.
Because usa has a money printing press.
As long as Bettman is the commissioner, I don't think that there is going to be an eight Canadian based franchise regardless of the options that are out there. As far as a new NHL arena in Arizona goes, I don't think that going to happen either. NHL hockey in Arizona is now a memory and it's time to move on.
The board of governors don't care about the Canadian market
Bettman is 71 one day he won't be around, and we'll see then.
There is no market in Canada
@@Carsn-nj8sl did you know the smallest market in the NHL - Winnipeg - with 800k people
generates more revenue for the NHL than:
- Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix)
- Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles)
- Florida Panthers (Miami)
- Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh)
So Winnipeg generates more profit than Miami or Los Angeles or Phoenix...(or Atlanta)
you sound dumb
@@Carsn-nj8sl false , the real hockey market are in Canada, wake up
@@Carsn-nj8sl did you know the smallest market in the NHL - Winnipeg - with 800k people generates more revenue for the NHL than:
- Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix)
- Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles)
- Florida Panthers (Miami)
- Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh)
Winnipeg generates more profit than Miami or Los Angeles or Phoenix...(or Atlanta)
don't you have some lottery tickets to buy?
Houston is the only US market I agree with. The Aero's,have been there for decades.
the Aeros have literally not been in Houston for 21 years...did you mean to say
The Aero's have NOT BEEN there for decades? Because that makes sense.
They left in 2003 and literally nobody misses them...where the hell have you been?
And they'll get their team in a few years when the league expands again likely to 34 by adding Houston and Atlanta again
@@sampicano the ahl team was there until 2011 when the old houston rockets owner had raised rent to a ridiculous price and the minnesota wild wanted them closer so they moved them to iowa.
@@RobertHall85 the ahl houston aeros, despite tickets being higher than average ahl price, brought in top 10 attendance in the ahl nearly every season they existed. They usually got 7,500 to 10,000 a year for attendance. Which for an ahl team is spectacular.
@@JarradBruessel32 I hate to admit it, but that's a good point!
I do believe Houston would be another sunbelt team losing money like Atlanta did, Phoenix, Miami, Anaheim, Carolina etc.
BUT none of those markets supported the AHL the same way Houston did...probably had something to do with nostalgia for the Aeros WHA
at the end of the day....Wisconsin, Portland, Hamilton, Toronto, Quebec City are all better hockey markets.
As far as large markets in the South go...Houston is probably number one.
Number 5 overall. Number 1 in the South (move over ATL/PHX)
How about the cost to live their. That would be a start.
If the argument is about population, he might want to look up metro sizes and growth rates… SLC is wealthy and growing, and with the success of Vegas, going to the southwest again has obvious appeal
There’s no money in Canada. Bettman is targeting untapped markets to try and grow the game. We already have 7 teams for our super small population… how much more do we need?
"Bettman is targeting untapped markets to try and grow the game."
- Atlanta failed twice (1981 and 2010)
- Atlanta lost MORE money than any NHL team in history ($130 million in losses between 2005 and 2010)
- hockey registration in Georgia was 0% in 1970
- hockey registration in Georgia was 0.02% in 2020
- Not one fifth of a percent 0.2%....much worse. one-fiftieth of a percent. Take 1% and divide it 50 times....that's hockey enrollment in Georgia after 50 years
Where is the growth?
Georgia has worse hockey registration than Prince Edward Island....
There was no growth.
There was MORE GROWTH in Ontario and Quebec over that same period....hockey in Canada outgrew the South during that time.
So, I don't need to be spoon fed lies...numbers exist.
I can google the hockey registration myself. There was NO GROWTH.
At that rate by 2070 hockey registration will be 0.04%...still bottom TEN in North America hahahahaha
@@sampicanoOwners don’t listen to you lil bro, they listen to money.
That’s why 3 out of 7 Canadian markets are in the top 10 in value, right?
Relocate to where? QC? With high taxes, Language laws etc… . If your an Anglo player and can’t get service in English who wants to deal with that. these all add to expenses.
*you're
I’d move the jets to Quebec City…or Ottawa . I mean since attendance and support is the issue right ?
Canada is still in a recession from covid. Temporarily driving down attendance. Support isn’t a problem in canada
@@gabew7480 Ottawa has been bottom 5 pretty much for a decade . Everyone went through covid . Canadas economy is awful because it’s run by fools who have made it impossible to afford basic needs much less entertainment . Players don’t want to stay here because it sucks and they pay more taxes . I could go on but Gary Bettman is the least of anyone’s problem here
@@wrotoeshaw9270 Ottawa isn’t a great market, but there’s like 5 teams that should move before Ottawa does. Regarding Canada as a whole, what players don’t wanna stay? Some of the best players in the league play in Canada and have signed long term deals to stay there. If you don’t like it ok but players like being there.
@@gabew7480 yes and some of those players are at war with the CRA and have to basically cripple any salary caps while dumb people who don’t understand economics talk about them taking discounts to win
@@gabew7480 why are there 5 others ? Because we emotionally as Canadians feel this ? How much unprofessional nonsense and media over attempts to purchase that sink hole of a franchise are needed . Bettman has stuck with the city and defended it on many occasions even . He feels there’s value to a team in the capital of Canada …against business judgement but people don’t complain
These idiots are still on this? Quebec had a team, and they lost it….why do you think its going to work when it isn’t working nearly as well as people thought it would in Winnipeg?
Whining for the sake of whining
Quebec never lost money like Winnipeg when they left, quebec always was at the top 10 of the league in attendance even with some of the worst teams in history, they just left because they had no good arena, its like when ppl talked about maybe moving calgary because of their old ass arena even tho the market works and is great.
Now Quebec has an arena so..
They’re pandering to dumb Canadians for clicks
the smallest market in the NHL - Winnipeg - with 800k people generates more revenue for the NHL than:
- Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix)
- Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles)
- Florida Panthers (Miami)
- Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh)
Winnipeg generates more profit than Miami or Los Angeles or Phoenix...(or Atlanta)
what's wrong with you?
"Forbes Business of Hockey" exists, why would ANYONE listen to your dumb lies?
nobody has to listen to you...they can look up the revenue numbers and see you're lying
@@Habebandebardown Quebec City didn't have a leech known as Winnipeg Enterprises to deal with.
@@Habebandebardownawesome ….why don’t they want to pay the expansion fee ?
GTA + Hamilton & Kitchener-Waterloo is really the only realistic place for the next Canadian franchise
if Ontario gets a 3rd team " we could say 4 with buffalo so close" before Qc has a second im done haha
I’d rather see Simcoe, Owen Sound, Sudbury, and Thunder Bay get teams before Quebec. Much more deserving of a franchise to be honest.
No, Quebec City is. It is the only market with an NHL-caliber building ready to house a team and does not present any territorial infringement issues.
Every major population center in Canada (except one) ALREADY HAS AN NHL TEAM. It's literally just a matter of time.
1 Toronto Maple Leafs (5,647,656)
2 Montreal Canadiens (3,675,219)
3 Vancouver Canucks (2,426,160)
4 Calgary Flames (1,305,550)
5 Edmonton Oilers (1,151,635)
6 Ottawa Senators (1,068,821)
7 QUEBEC (839,311)
8 Winnipeg Jets (834,678)
EVERY NHL TEAM IN CANADA GENERATES REVENUE FOR THE LEAGUE
Atlanta had 5.1 million people in 2010...lost 130 million the previous 5 years.
Then moved to Winnipeg...731,000 in 2011...and INSTANTLY started generating revenue for the league.
Winnipeg soldout every home game from 2011 to 2020...41 games a year for 10 years straight (until covid 19 hit)
@@Andrew_Holt Oh, brother. Thunder Bay? You can't be serious. The population is 700,000 less than Quebec City!
Who's to say who 'deserves' a team in the first place.
Need anyone remind that crazy guy on the right that Canadas government is to blame here? Really. Honestly you would be more likely to get an NHL franchise if you got rid of Trudeau rather than worrying about Bettman. Bettman isn’t to blame for the Canadian market crashing and burning.
True. Canadian government gives everyone a headache.
Honestly, this is just some BS. There are three Canadian cities. Quebec city, Halifax, and Saskatoon and they all could support NHL teams and would do really well but geez Bettman go
how does that thumb taste Gord?
Taxes...revenues to the govt .....forget QC.
Saskatoon is too small.
Halifax is too far, but Bettman hates Canada!
Buddy, if you think Saskatoon or Halifax can support a major league sports franchise you’re crazy. Those markets are ridiculously small and lack the corporate support needed for a big four league to ever seriously consider them. I really don’t think Canadians realize how small their markets are compared to American markets.
Yes, it's all because of the money.
I don't see expansion in the future into Canada.
With so many teams now, many fan bases won't see their teams win the Cup in their lifetime. Some teams spend decades in mediocrity.
More teams will need to relocate in the future as they lose fan support.
It was very exciting when the NHL doubled and expanded from six to twelve teams, but now is simply too much.
There are only two cities in Canada that could handle relocation or an expansion team while there are at least 15 in the US that could have a team.
More like 5. 15 is unrealistic
Houston, Kansas City, Oklahoma city, salt lake city, San Antonio, Memphis, Milwaukee,new Orleans Jacksonville, Cincinnati, Orlando, Atlanta, Charlotte, Baltimore, Indianapolis
Although I really only think three would work permanently imo Houston, salt lake and Charlotte
KC, Houston, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Cincinnati. The other ones wouldn't work. Maybe Charlotte because they only have NBA. Jacksonville, New Orleans? Ew.
@@lotsathedetox ummm Charlotte also has the NFL to there bud ( Panthers)
I read a comment that was pretty on point. Canadian markets are just as guilty about abandoning their team(s) and ultimately, the bottom line is what is most important.
Pretty simple statline, in my opinion, as to why Canada is not a priority:
Canada: 36,991,981 people (2021 Census) ÷ 7 teams = 5,284,568.7 Canadians per team.
United States: 331,449,281 (2020 Census) ÷ 25 teams = 13,257,971.24 Americans per team.
The results are clear. Canada is wildly oversaturated compared to the United States, and the United States has more available markets. To reach the same saturation as the Canadian market, the US would need 63 teams!
TSN, please refrain from producing videos like this. The Jets are currently struggling to sell out, and Quebec City, with a similar-sized population, will face comparable challenges. Such videos only provoke Canadian viewers without providing insights into economic realities.
"without providing insights into economic realities"
Spoken like an American who can't be bothered to GOOGLE ANYTHING lmfao
Nobody who understands the NHL thinks you are smart....I think you've NEVER been on Forbes Business of Hockey's website (the numbers are there dummy)
list of NHL teams that lost the most money from 2013 to 2022:
- Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix) - $115.2 million in losses the most money lost in that period
- Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles)
- Florida Panthers (Miami)
- Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh)
- Sunbelt
- Sunbelt
- Sunbelt
- Sunbelt
The NHL team to lose the MOST money in history?
- Atlanta Thrashers ($130 million USD losses between 2005 and 2010)
- Sunbelt
So if the NHL wants to THRIVE...since they share revenues, get rid of Florida, Anaheim, and Arizona....
Okay Arizona is gone...not Winnipeg.
I wonder why?
What happened? Winnipeg is such a worse market, why didn't they relocate?
Explain...go on...the internet is waiting.
How about most sun belt teams are in the bottom 5 for attendance with much larger markets?
@@gabew7480 tax rates...ask the player agents.....
Ain't yall have enough teams in canda just saying
Nobody in the sun belt cares about hockey but the nhl insists on putti
g more teams there
Nevermind Canada, I think the league has enough teams.
@@Mrs.Currie even tho California has 3 teams alone lol
"Not with Bettman in." There's your answer.
as if the numbers and taxes and policies will change the day after Bettman dies.....how stupid you are.
The future of the NHL is in the America
Houston - no NHL team, no AHL team, no ECHL team (if they like hockey so much in Houston (7.1 million) wouldn't they have a team? Mexico City also has a large population with ZERO hockey teams.)
Kansas City - lost one NHL team (Kansas City Scouts), ECHL team (bottom 5 in attendance in the ECHL) where are the fans?
Atlanta - lost two NHL teams (Atlanta Flames, Atlanta Mistakes), ECHL team averages 41.3% capacity (4,900 fans) - Georgia has some of the worst hockey registration numbers in North America (0.02% registered - 40th in USA out of 50)
Quebec City - averages 9,726 per game (in QMJHL) that's more than Arizona Coyotes and their AHL affiliate Tucson Roadrunners combined - 8,225. And Quebec averages over 18,000 a game in the playoffs. Quebec City - population 839,311 (7th largest city in Canada - is larger than Winnipeg - 834,678) and Quebec is the last major population centre in canada still without a team (Hamilton and Mississauga can be considered part of GTA)
Portland - has an NHL arena (MODA), has a well supported WHL team "Winterhawks", Portland used to have the "Portland Rosebuds" who competed for the Stanley Cup in 1916 - so Portland has a very long hockey history, and they would be a natural rival for the Seattle Kraken, there is only one professional team in Portland (NBA) so far - the market is large and mostly untapped. Portland - population 2,511,612 (2020)
Milwaukee - has an NHL arena (Fiserv Forum), the Wisconsin badgers (NCAA Div 1) average over 10,000 fans per game, Wisconsin is top eight in hockey registration in the US (20,975 hockey players enrolled - that is more than Ohio, or New Jersey), a team in Milwaukee would also have the support of Madison, Wisconsin only an hour away (population of 680,796 in 2020), and a team in Milwaukee would be a natural rival for the Chicago Blackhawks and Minnesota Wild
(if there can be a team in Manhattan, NY, Hempstead, NY, and Newark, NJ you can have a team in Milwaukee, WI, Saint Paul, MN, and Chicago, IL) the market is more than large enough and passionate enough for three hockey teams. Milwaukee - population 1,574,731 (2020)
- You can see the difference between "real" hockey markets and "large cities". Large cities are not necessarily good hockey markets.
Winnipeg has 800k people and does better than Phoenix, Arizona (6.1 million) in nearly every metric. The team has a better attendance than Arizona (even before Mullet Arena). A higher valuation than Arizona. And generates more income than Arizona (Arizona actually loses money for the league).
Winnipeg - 800,000 population sold out EVERY home game from 2010 to 2020 (until covid). 41 home games a year...for 10 years straight - did the Atlanta Thrashers or Phoenix coyotes EVER sell out a home game ever? Seriously? What date?
Winnipeg did it ten years straight - every game. That's a real hockey market.
10 million people in Georgia can't sell out a game.
6 million people in Phoenix can't sellout a game.
800 thousand Canadians sell out EVERY game for ten years!
And Quebec City is larger than Winnipeg....Gary Bettman hates Canada
Fun Fact:
Every major population center in Canada (except one) already has a team. It's literally just a matter of time.
1 Toronto Maple Leafs (5,647,656)
2 Montreal Canadiens (3,675,219)
3 Vancouver Canucks (2,426,160)
4 Calgary Flames (1,305,550)
5 Edmonton Oilers (1,151,635)
6 Ottawa Senators (1,068,821)
7 QUEBEC (839,311)
8 Winnipeg Jets (834,678)
Every NHL team from Canada generates revenue for the league.
Atlanta had 5.1 million people in 2010...lost 130 million the previous 5 years.
Then moved to Winnipeg...731,000 in 2011...and INSTANTLY started generating revenue for the league.
Winnipeg sold out every home game from 2011 to 2020...41 games a year for 10 years straight
Excellent points dude.
The point is ten years was great…the team is still doing well and only outdraws the Coyotes in a 6000 seat rink, so that’s a pointless comparison….
Quebec will be the same as Winnipeg….they will sell out a few seasons and then who knows….and on top of that, why add another team to be put on players no trade lists?
Habs have history, no one is going to give a flying f**k about Quebec
@@AZLANKHAN003 Sammy always makes good points. 'Too bad the NHL keeps ignoring them.
@@FischerFan did we just become best friends?
(also 75% of Americans LITERALLY tell me I'm wrong like flat out tell me NO)
(or whatever you want to call them "American apologists" who think hockey BELONGS in the South - that's why I was sent here, to single handedly spread the truth! the gospel of hockey)
@@sampicano I don't know if we're becoming best friends, but you keep getting further into my good books with every other post....especially when you pound that whining Coyotes' punk.
Keep mentioning not only Mexico City, but even larger ones like Dehli, Manila, Tehran, etc. when those loudmouth Americans insist they should have a team based on market size alone.
Canada has roughly the same population and economy of Texas. Canadians are so provincial that they don't know this.
Wrong and wrong. Do some fact checking idiot.
Why do Canadians need to know this lmao
@@philoneussquire3877 Because they are whining about Canada not getting an 8th NHL franchise just because a state like Texas might get a second.
Economy yeah, population not really close. 30 million in Texas vs 40 million in Canada is a leap.
And yet somehow the US still has fewer hockey fans...
Quebec City isn’t happening
Canadian fans and media are brutal on the top players. The pressure is so incredibly intense that no one wants to play there. Players have told their agents “I’m not going to Canada. I’d rather play in San Jose and build their program.” Not sure if SLC can fill an arena but I guess we’ll find out.
LOL....I am an Anglophone in Quebec....all these experts talk and talk....I would never give Quebec a franchise..no one should invest in this place anymore....the laws and politics of Quebec are not viable...come on TSN
You sound very patriotic bud
@@Kwolf1 The politicians in this place have completely lost their minds.... don't know if you knew about the politicians complaining about a Quebec Junior team having English in their dressing room...words of motivation in the room. When they do this, who knows what's next...wish I could move!
@@patrickoneill6275 my parents are anglophones from Quèbec and they support the Quèbec Nordiques coming back, maybe you’re just an unpatriotic loser.
@@patrickoneill6275 my parents are anglophones from Quèbec and they support the Quèbec Nordiques coming back, you’re just unpatriotic and a pessimist.
NHL players don't want to play in small Canadian markets. Good. Then they shouldn't come with their big market visiting team to play either.
If the NHL was in Atlanta, Phoenix, Miami, Houston it would be the Federal Hockey League attendances...
Enough of BAD AMERICAN MARKETS in the South
Milwaukee exists
Portland exists
What makes MORE MONEY a second team in Toronto-Hamilton (GTA) or a team in Georgia or Houston 🤣
This is gonna age poorly. Utah has rabid fans.
Honestly, if you wanted to expand, you could add teams in Saskatchewan Halifax, Quebec, city, and Houston
In United States, it would be Salt Lake City, Sacramento, Houston, San Antonio, Milwaukee, Jacksonville, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and etc
You Canadians keep saying Atlanta will fail when you forget that the reason the Thrashers failed is because the owners were terrible. Atlanta has devoted fans that will support a team if the owners aren’t incompetent.
Empty seats don't lie
canada always crying 😭
america runs hockey now, no one wants to play in canada and your dollar is weak, stop crying lol
lol america may run hockey (cause you guys are the type to just take over) but Canada IS hockey! One tenth the population of you's and we can compete anyday and win. america makes EVERYTHING about money. You'd make millions off the backs of 12 year olds if you saw the opportunity.
Canadian businesses have been investing in the US for decades. Canadian dollar is too weak, investment too weak, taxes too high and more importantly the business grows more in the US. You aren’t getting any new fans in Quebec moving a team there.
Just give Quebec City an NHL team already! If Arizona has moved to Utah, then someone's gotta move to Quebec City for once. The footprint for the US TV market is already large enough, it's time to instead enlarge its Canadian counterpart. Maybe teams like the Florida Panthers, San Jose Sharks (that will mean the Detroit Red Wings will return to the Western Conference), and or New Jersey Devils might be potentials for a possible relocation to Quebec City and become the Nordiques 2.0.
Literally none of those teams are in danger of moving and Detroit will never move back to the western conference. They’re literally in the Eastern time zone.
The next 4 expansion teams will be in Houston, Phoenix, Atlanta, and Kansas City. Quebec will be left out again.
the Coyotes are in Phoenix. Why you want to send a 2nd team there? There is no arena for 1 team, let alone 2
Not KC cause you won't add 3 teams to the West. It would be 2-2 if they did that. Then I could actually see MAYBE they try QC cause what other city on on the eastern side of the continent would work?
@@pierrepellerin249 You know they’re days away from relocating, right?
Phoenix, Atlanta, Houston and Quebec City will be where they expand next.
@@tmoore4075 you'd move either Chicago or Nashville to the east.
If Atlanta can get two chances and is up for a third. QUEBEC NORIQUES can return. I would add SASKATOON CARIBOU, HAMILTON TIGERS OR HAMMERS AND HALIFAX LIONS TOO BY 2040.
Suggesting that cities like Saskatoon, Hamilton, and Halifax can support NHL teams with the Canadian dollar at $0.73 US is pure delusion. Additionally, their populations and corporate support are insufficient to buy enough tickets.
I’d have 3 teams in Little Rock Arkansas before placing a team in Halifax
Saskatoon is way too small a market. It doesn't even make the top 15 in Canada. That PROVES it's a bigger pipe dream than the NFL putting a team in Toronto.
The NHL is not looking for a Green Bay and certainly not one in Canada.
There are entire American COUNTIES that have more people than Saskatchewan, Nova Scotia and the Québec City metro area. Those 3 places aren't viable markets for the NHL in the current environment, especially considering that NHL salaries are paid in American money.
@@marcus813 Correction, Quebec City is a MORE than viable market because it has a proven fan base.
It's fine that a random American county might have more people than Quebec City, but that's like saying Mexico City should have 4 NHL teams because it's 4 times the size of Toronto!
Your argument cannot be applied consistently based on intensity and demand within a market. No two populations are alike, you know.
If it doesn't work out in Utah then move the team to Quebec.
Why?
Taxes....exchange rates. Grown up stuff....go ask Dad.
It's honestly cringe that there's more teams in the southern US more than Canada, it's our fucking sport FFS.
Your country is bad for business cry harder. Utah is more north than Pittsburgh…..
Grow up. You don't hear Americans whining about the blue jays
@@alexanderscavello6253 Why would Americans cry about having 1 team in Canada when hockey is CANADA'S sport and half the league is sunbelt? SMH Americans.
@@BM_2002 You don't understand sarcasm do you? WE DON'T CRY that there is a team in Toronto because it helps grow the game. Hockey isn't "Canadas sport" you don't own it dipshit anymore than we "own" baseball.
Canada is not the proprietor of Hockey though..."it's our sport", yes, we love the game, and no one is stopping us from having it. But the game belongs in the end to whomever loves it plays it, no?
When 98% of the league was Canadian it was easy to fill rosters up in Canada. Now American born players have no interest in playing in S hole cities paying half their salary to tax with -30 weather. Get over it. Betman is right 100%
beautifully said....
Yet look at the talented American-born players on Canadian teams! Matthews, Hellebuyck, the list goes on!
list of NHL teams that lost the most money from 2013 to 2022:
- Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix) - $115.2 million in losses the most money lost in that period
- Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles)
- Florida Panthers (Miami)
- Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh)
The NHL team to lose the MOST money in history?
- Atlanta Thrashers ($130 million USD losses between 2005 and 2010)
Maybe just continually die in the South forever.
There is no money in Atlanta or Phoenix or Anaheim...not for hockey.
stick to mass shootings the stuff you are ACTUALLY good at
you are not good at hockey...you won once in 1980 and it WAS A MIRACLE....go away
go buy a gun, go teach a child to shoot something
I think Americans are EXTREMEMLY stupid
I think Americans are becoming dangerous
I bet MONEY you don't know who the second US President is without using Google.
I do. And I'm Canadian.
But American's have VERY LOW IQ...I get you have nukes...you didn't build those lol, you don't understand how those work....the average American is a dangerously low IQ individual who confidently talks about things they are not qualified to talk about, and lies compulsively.
That is America.
Low IQ
Guns
Compulsive lying - to the point where they will confidently talk about a subject they have no knowledge about.
What a fucking doomed country.
It never gets close to minus 30 in vancouver
list of NHL teams that lost the most money from 2013 to 2022:
- Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix) - $115.2 million in losses the most money lost in that period
- Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles)
- Florida Panthers (Miami)
- Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh)
The NHL team to lose the MOST money in history?
- Atlanta Thrashers ($130 million USD losses between 2005 and 2010)
Maybe just continually die in the South forever.
There is no money in Atlanta or Phoenix or Anaheim...not for hockey.
stick to mass shootings the stuff you are ACTUALLY good at
you are not good at hockey...you won once in 1980 and it WAS A MIRACLE....go away
go buy a gun, go teach a child to shoot something
I think Americans are EXTREMEMLY stupid
I think Americans are becoming dangerous
I bet MONEY you don't know who the second US President is without using Google.
I do. And I'm Canadian.
But American's have VERY LOW IQ...I get you have nukes...you didn't build those lol, you don't understand how those work....the average American is a dangerously low IQ individual who confidently talks about things they are not qualified to talk about, and lies compulsively.
That is America.
Low IQ
Guns
Compulsive lying - to the point where they will confidently talk about a subject they have no knowledge about.
What a fucking doomed country.
I would love to see a professional hockey team in the province of Saskatoon or Regina in Sasketchewan or Halifax, Nova Scotia
* sigh * the lazy "it's all Bettman's doing" argument. One that ignores literally the entire post-1967 history of the league...
...I can't wait for Bettman's retirement. For a variety of reasons (I'm no fan) but not the least of which for everyone to get their hopes up that it will suddenly lead to teams in places that have been "shut out" only to find out it was the NHL owners the whole time, not Gary Bettman.
Would Buffalo be better off in Hamilton? Short hop across the Niagara region, draw fans from Kitchener-Waterloo-Guelph, and act as Toronto 2.0.
When Terry Pegula assumes room temperature they will.
Well you can't compare the "Canadian dollar" with the "Real dollar" - Gary Bettman
Maybe if a Canadian team had won the Stanley Cup since 1992 they would get another team
I don't think that would move the needle much when or comes to their view of Canadian markets.
Has any owner recently stepped up to buy a team? I haven't heard anything from potential Canadian ownership group in a long time. And any Eastern Canadian market screws up the alignment unless some western expansion teams come in with them to even out the conferences. The Coyotes need to stay somewhere out west. The Red Wings and Blue Jackets are never switching conferences again.
Only the NHL would go out of it's way to avoid taking money because it doesn't fit their "vision". Imagine if the NFL decided they want to grow their fanbase in Alaska and put a team in Anchorage? It's a business, not a charity. There's a reason USA Hockey exists as an organization, that's who is supposed to be in charge of growing the game around the US. Canadian hockey fans will support a team, will pay more for tickets than their American counterparts, will buy merchandise. Instead of trying to "grow the game", why not worry about putting your teams in the most passionate markets to grow your revenues and get the salary cap to rise?
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the owners of the Habs and the Leafs vetoed bringing a new team to Quebec City