The Obstacles to a Return of the Quebec Nordiques
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
- Hey all. I wanted to make this video today as there have been so many "Put a team in Quebec comments" everywhere recently.
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I could listen to Shannon read the phone book. His videos help me get through my long days between nursing school and my full-time job as a machinist. I would love to see Quebec City get a NHL team again. 😊
Goodluck on nursing school!
Good luck for nursing school ! Keep going, it’s a beautiful profession - from a fellow nursing student that loves Shannon
I hope Québec City gets a team again too
That would make for an interesting joke video, "15 Minute Recap of the Local Phonebook."... also, do they still make phonebooks?
LOLz
Crazy how popular the Nordiques are even today. In the Avs team store, you can still buy Nordiques jerseys and gear
$$$$$$$ extraction nothing else matters
You can buy Whaler stuff kinda everywhere so it doesn't mean a lot I'd say.
Same with the Expos
Because when the owner bought the nordiques and moved them to Colorado and renamed to avalanche
It’s old stock they’re still trying to liquidate.
If the nordiques come back I will personally go to Quebec city to see them play
Me too.
id would have to go at least once for sure. be a long trip for me from Indiana however.
@@Dratchev241 its longer for me because I live in California
@@RickKaine-rx6gp same
Yes, me too
I truly feel for the fans in Quebec. It’s a total hockey city, and they have been waiting an awful long time to get a team. I hope it works out for them..
If Winnipeg can come back so can Quebec
Don't feel for them. The problem is that Quebec City is so chauvinistically French, that they would make the lives of any English players that live in the city, a very uncomfortable one. This I believe, could be a big reason why the NHL doesn't want to go back there.
@@user-yg1dg6xm2g The Eric Lindros effect, lol.
@@user-yg1dg6xm2g i will agree quebec city feels like definitely the most french city in canada but in a good way, i can’t see living there would be uncomfortable my stay there for a 5day week was amazing and i stayed in the cheap hotels lol, these guys are rich they could live outside the city anyway.
So do I. I am sick and tired of hearing the excuse that, 'putting a team in Quebec doesn't create new fans.".
Does this mean that every American city should have a franchise because it apparently 'creates new fans'? The NHL has been in U.S. cities for about a century now so I can't buy this claim that an American cannot be a hockey fan where there is no franchise. You need only look at Atlantic Canada or Saskatchewan where the NHL will probably never put a team, but the game will always enjoy a solid following.
Not everybody is going to be a hockey fan and it makes a lot more sense to put a team where you know you have a fan base instead of putting a team in a place like Baton Rouge, Louisiana or Corpus Christi, Texas where there is no guarantee that a sufficient fan base exists or will develop.
For God's sake! The U.S. has 25 franchises already. How many more should they get in the name of 'creating new fans'?!
Hello from Quebec city :-) I grew up a Nordiques fan. They moved when I was 12. Hockey has never been the same after that. I miss making fun of Habs fans :-) Would be fun to revive the rivalry.
I'm a Habs fan but have never lived in Quebec.
Hockey needs the return of that Habs-Nordiques rivalry.
I remember being in Quebec when they plated Montreal. I am from Boston and I loved making fun of the Habs with the quebecois.
Once a team leaves, your never the same.
When the Jets left in 96, I didn't watch hockey till they came back. Couldn't care less about that golden goal in the Olympics in Vancouver.
People were like I guess your not a hockey fan. I was like I'm a Jets fan, don't give a crap about about a league if I don't have a team where I live.
So I guess I'm a new/old fan 😂
Now having said that, bring back the Nords and Whale 👍
@@FischerFan It was sooooooooo good . And Peter Stasny was the greatest player you never hear about
@@pjpredhomme7699 Just last night on HNIC, after the Leafs closed out the Lightning, I heard Ron MacLean mention how Carolina advanced on the overtime winner by 'Peter Stasny'!
Oops! He meant to say Paul Stasny.
Back in the 1980s, the Nordiques WERE Team Stasny. Of course, one mustn't forget hall-of-famer Michel Goulet!
As a Canadiens fan, I admit that I miss the Habs-Nordiques rivalry.
This Habs fan confirms your sentiment. The war of Quebec was a marvelous rivalry.
that Friday night almost exactly 39 years ago tho....what a game
Why did Quebec leave in the first place? Sorry to lazy to google
@@Booze129 $
@@Booze129 No new ownership group, a declining Canadian dollar, and an aging city-owned arena in which the team got none of the revenue from concessions.
Crazy to think the Flames were bought from Atlanta for only 16 million dollars. And that was a record breaking high price for an NHL team back in 1980! Those days are long gone. I hope Quebec City gets an NHL team back some day but it would cost a lot of money.
The game is attracting a global audience now with worldwide viewership, unlike in the 80s. Revenues from TV, streaming, and merchandising are growing at a good clip still.
When the press conference announcing the launch of the Thrashers was held, Ted Turner joked he should have just bought the Flames given the price discrepancy.
We would have been glad to just give them away. And would have thrown in the Falcons to sweeten the deal.
Hi fellow Flames fan, hopefully Wolfe plays many games next season....got some young killers in Wranglers
Mark Chipman and David Thomson bought the Atlanta Thrashers for a mere $66 M. Today, it’s valued at $1 B.
Shannon gave us a better explanation in 1/2 an hr, than the league has given us in decades
Ok
@@rlasson657 no, for real!
The problem is the disconnect between "growing the game" and profits. Quebec will obviously generate immediate profits, but the nhl is saying they want to grow the game. But when there are constant and distracting ads, blackouts, ignoring fan feedback, and making it prohibitively expensive to go, you're gaining immediate profits at the expense of growing the game. The disconnect is frustrating and is making a less enjoyable product with people who want to see a classic team return feel like they're getting the short end of the stick for no reason
Bingo. The whole "we're growing the game" nonsense that the board of governors try to push is hollow as a pipe when they are charging half a billion at bare minimum for expansion fees and are looking to "grow the game" in already established hockey areas in Europe by having an 8 team division when those leagues already have teams and fans who would view NHL expansion as predatory to their domestic leagues. If the NHL was serious about growing the game, they would be making efforts to fund youth hockey in lower income communities in the United States and Canada the way MLB does with the RBI program, as well as do tours in non traditional hockey countries like India and contribute funds to build up the game in those countries with infrastructure and training for coaches and referees. This feels more like a cash grab to diversify revenues in the short term than build the game in the long term.
The game can only grow if the people living there have a basic interest in watching. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink. They should put franchises in places with existing hockey fans, like Quebec
Its not a given the Nordique would earn profit, but it is a given the Canadian would lost tons of profit and the NHL need the money MTL bring in the redistribution of the $$$ across the NHL. Even after the Nordique got sold, MTL kept loosing money years after years till Molson sold them to Gillet (old nordique fans didn't rooted for the Canadian).
@@GreenHornet553 Exactly. No sport makes it to *True international stardom* , if you take out such a huge portion of the potential talent pool, because of income.
@@dilididli2274 it's not a given a Houston or a third Atlanta team would turn a profit either.
It’s interesting that Seattle has a team now, because I was hearing for years about the threat of the Canucks, especially when John McCaw bought the team, moving there because of the Canadian dollar, coupled with how bad things had gotten for the franchise in general. People think things are bad now for the Canucks and I don’t dispute that, but they were scary for a while in Vancouver just a few years after 1994. Things went from amazing to near disaster fast.
It’s interesting that there was interest to move the team to Seattle, given that the Mariners had threatened to leave in 1995 (and they likely would have had they not rallied to make the postseason and came back down 0-2 to beat the Yankees in 5), and that the Seahawks threatened to move in 1996.
They would have struggled to find a building because 95-96 was when they had renovated the Seattle Center Coliseum into Key Arena, which was purposely done in a way to make it ill suited for hockey. It wasn't until Key Arena was converted to Climate Pledge that Seattle had an NHL suitable building.
Nonsense. There might have been saber rattling by McCaw but that team was never, ever moving. EVER…
I remember back in 2018 when Calgary did it as well, when ownership were trying to strongarm the city for a new arena.
@@GaryTaylor206 implying that place isn't a glorified rec center from the world fair
There is one thing you didn't mention in your analysis; the Quebec / Montreal rivalry was one of the most intense (if not "the" most intense) in hockey history...in my opinion that has to count for something and at the same time would generate new fans because a lot of those new fans have parents that lived that rivalry and would pass down that knowledge to them...just my 2 cents worth. Great video!...stay safe!
To be more specific, he’s talking about people who have never consumed anything hockey related when he describes “new fans.” Kids who have parents that experienced that era have probably already gotten into hockey and are already consuming NHL content even if there’s no team there, so there’s no real significant growth in that regard given QC’s size. That’s part of how the league keeps making some money off the Nordiques and the Quebec market without risking the losses that could come with an actual franchise.
I'm not sure anyone outside of those two places would care much (I know how that comes off...). People in the south love the Hurricanes, but I'm not sure they would have cared about Hartford/Boston. The do care about Carolina/Boston.
@@nathanviebranz9111 a lot of people in Quebec city stopped following the NHL when the Nordiques were shipped out.
I would love to agree with you but with the current NHL scheduling the team would only play a few times each season. The Canadiens and Bruins only played three times this season.
@@tiben36 For real, people love hockey as a sport and play it more than anywhere and it will remain our sport but they stopped consuming NHL when i grew up and teachers would talk about the games talking about the games was the #1 small talk. Garry's lack of respect for the sport for our province, the lack of French Canadian identity in the Canadiens, lack of performances by them for the past 20 years (the final was a fluke everyone knew that) and the endless talk about a return of the NHL in Québec which ends up getting turned down lead Québec to grow bored of the NHL. Now you can't expect people know what you are talking about when you just throw in a "4-2 eh" or a "though game last night", people follow the very late playoffs at best. A comeback of a Québec rivalry would bring "new fans" in the sense it would bring back fans that have left but that doesn't get accounted for.
As a Leaf fan I love the Nordiques logo. Everytime I visit Quebec, I buy a Nordiques hat or toque.
pretty sure the nordioques still sell more merch than the yotes....
1970s design
@@kokocaptainqc oh they have to - I have half dozen Nords gear - and I would not know what a yotes looks like
@@kokocaptainqc Sad but true.
Voted nicest uniforms in league history. I get a lot of comments on my many Nordiques hats.
MOST thoughtful explanation I’ve heard on why NHL return to Quebec is not likely. Well done, sir!
Avalanche fan here since day 1. I am so grateful Denver got graced with this incredible franchise in 1995 and winning the Stanley Cup in 96 and basically those first 7 years were absolutely epic. The success of the Avalanche as a whole is proof that the move was not a mistake, even if we went through our own stretch of misery that very much rivaled the Nord's late 80s/early 90s.
Having said that living on the East Coast for some years now has allowed me to visit Quebec City a couple of times already. And man I love every bit of that city! People who haven't been don't realize how quite unique that place is. Quebec reminds me a lot of Prague actually with the citadelle, the old town and all. The fact that they built a bona fide NHL arena and still haven't been awarded a franchise is an absolute crime in my opinion.
I get that in the short term, the financials don't speak for Quebec City. But with some 25 years of data, can we say that some of these sunshine state teams have really worked out? Atlanta certainly didn't. Arizona? 1 decent playoff run and they are now playing in a college arena. Is that a success story? Even the Panthers really haven't been all that convincing as a franchise.
You said it yourself. The Nordiques have obviously become a bit of a cult with their pijama style uniforms, their lovely postmodern igloo logo. And this is what makes for great marketing today. Great iconography with a mysterious Cold-War era background story. It's like a James Bond wrapped up with an original pair of Jordans. Why Bettman is unwilling to see that is beyond me. Well, it's not beyond me. The NHL leadership is a bunch of old dudes who lack vision...like Jeremy Jacobs. Who cares what an 83 old geezer says who probably can't even use a cell phone.
Almost every European that played for the Nordiques said the same thing about the city.
You wrote, "But with some 25 years of data, can we say that some of these sunshine state teams have really worked out?" Actually, it appears to me that the "sunshine state teams" have worked out better than the northern teams, on average. Look at the current conference finals series between the Carolina Hurricanes and Florida Panthers, and Vegas Golden Knights and Dallas Stars. The Stars and Hurricanes have won the Stanley Cup in the past and the Golden Knights and Panthers have at least previous Finals appearance. The Tampa Bay Lightning have won three Stanley Cups including two in the current decade. The Nashville Predators have a previous Finals appearance and are very popular in Tennessee.
I live in the Phoenix area and earlier this week voters in the City of Tempe turned down several referendums to redevelop an old landfill to build a new arena and surrounding entertainment complex. If the Coyotes can find a new arena site in a good location (my preference would be in Scottsdale), they should be successful. The Phoenix area is one of the 10 most populous in the USA and growing at a rate considerably faster than the national average, and its population grows markedly during hockey season with arrival of snowbirds and other winter visitors from throughout the USA and Canada.
Otherwise, if that can't be done soon, then perhaps the Coyotes should consider relocating to a thriving Sun Belt city (e.g. perhaps Charlotte to create a phenomenal Carolina rivalry with the Hurricanes) and the greater Phoenix area should seek to encourage another team to relocate to Arizona if and when they do get an arena planned and constructed.
For example, there are currently three teams in the New York City metropolitan area, which is at least one too many in my opinion. I see many New York and New Jersey license plates around Tempe, Scottsdale, and other upscale parts of the Phoenix area, so if many people from New York or New Jersey relocate to Arizona, why can't one of its hockey teams relocate? I would agree that the New York Rangers, a classic Original Six team playing in Madison Square Garden, should not be considered for relocation, but why not consider the New Jersey Devils (Arizona Devils would be a good complement to Arizona State Sun Devils) or New York Islanders (we are not on an island and don't have many islands in Arizona, but that didn't stop the Lakers from keeping their name when they moved from Minnesota to Los Angeles).
@@HighpointerGeocacher Emphasis was on “some” 😉 Tampa, San José, Anaheim, LA, Dallas. Plenty of examples of “southern cities” that have done well. Btw, I don’t consider Nashville or Raleigh as part of the sunbelt although historically they are well below the Mason-Dixon line.
Anyway, I get the argument with Phoenix as a massive market and that is why the NHL has always been so reluctant to touch the Coyotes. And perhaps things would be quite different if you actually had a talented team there.
My take though is that with a sport like hockey, you gotta walk a careful balance between tradition and expansion. Without respecting tradition and traditional hockey markets, the game is vulnerable to chip away at its base. The vast majority of its players still come from traditional hockey markets, where indoor and outdoor hockey rinks are part and parcel of the lifestyle.
To me it’s a bit like the Winter Olympics. You wouldn’t bring those to Las Vegas or Phoenix, would you? I mean maybe you could but at what cost.
Anyway, I appreciate the response! Thoughtful comment!
I grew up following the WHA as well as the NHL. Hated when Quebec left. Cried when Winnipeg left.
But this is one of the most level-headed, smart examinations of why the NHL’s not rushing back to Quebec and it’s not Bettman’s fault.
Also loved that he explained well why the NHL had interest in Seattle and Vegas being good quickly and how the salary cap helped that happen. The first NFL expansion after 19 years and a salary cap introduction produced Carolina and Jacksonville, which were very good very fast. Also, this isn’t the 1970s or 1980s - you can’t suck your first 8 years or more the way Washington or the Scouts/Rockies/Devils did and expect people to pay modern cost of attendance (tickets, parking, concessions). Even in Canada (except Toronto), if you suck for too long, attendance drops. Suck longer, apathy sets in. With free agency, the cap, and event drafting, that shouldn’t happen but look at Florida until they got their shit together a few years ago.
Anyway, great video.
If Quebec city gets a team I will cheer for them. I am planning to move to Quebec City within the next 5 years. Once I'm almost fluent in French I will move.
Tu es le bienvenu
I'm confused. Why 5 years? Québécois don't even speak French fluently lol. If it's your dream, dedicate yourself for a year and you'll be fine.
even if your french isn't good everyone can speak English especially in areas like Quebec City. You will learn faster in that environment.
@@sidetrak85 What the f you mean ?? Of course quebecers speak french fluently, natively even... It's not because it isn't international french that it isn't french... gtfo of here!
@@Blue-bv1ur Not true, a lot of people do speak english, but Quebec City is verryyyyyyy french.
I remember the short lived but well regarded Las Vegas Thunder. They proved (like the Chill in Columbus) that the city could support hockey. Love them or hate them at least the fans have taken to the team and they have generated exposure around the world in non traditional hockey markets.
Lol goto toronto, no one under 30 watches hockey, it's 24/7 raptors talk. The league is taking Canada for granted, it's losing it's relevancy with young people. No one cares about a sport dominated by a foreign country. The majority of young people in Toronto are "non traditional markets". You can blabber day in day out about inclusion and all the other racial nonsense. If a brown person can't afford tickets to a leafs game, he's not gonna become a new fan.
Still have my thunder hat.
@@DrFunk-rk6yl I loved Chris Mcsorley, his team's weren't pretty sometimes but they never backed down. 😊
I meet people on a daily basis who dont know about hockey and are semi interested to learn and I always recommend this channel to them!
Not only is Peladeau loaded, but conveniently his company, Quebecor is the operator of the Videotron Centre, the new rink in Quebec City.
He's not as loaded that some of the others in the league !
I seriously doubt he is worth 2.42 billions, I don't know where Shannon got those numbers but Peladeau is a poseur in the province. Maybe if you pool all his assets together he may be worth somewhat near that amount but let's not pretend he has anywhere close to that amount in the bank to make him an attractive potential owner to the NHL. He is the kind of sleazy businessman who would buy a franchise like the Glazers bought Manchester United by taking huge loans and use the valuation of the Nordiques assets as colateral.
"New Rink"??? Its nearly a decade old at this point which I wouldn't classify as NEW.
@@adellis24 2015 !
@@stephanechamberland8486 Right that was 8 years ago and Quebec isn't getting a team in the next 18months. So as I said, stop calling the building new, its already close to a decade old.
I’ve been an Oilers fan my whole life, but the only other team I ever truly rooted for was the Nordiques. A lot if it could be because I always liked Stastny and Goulet. And truth be told, I always had a soft spot for the Whalers and Jets too so maybe there’s a WHA connection involved, although I wasn’t even alive when the WHA folded.
I could never understand why the Nordiques never came back. I was on the “Bettman Hates Canada” bandwagon, until I remember in 1997 (I think) when Pocklington was wanting to sell my beloved Oilers and some guy from Houston (ironically) wanted to buy the Oilers and move them down there. The Jets and Nordiques were already gone, and it looked like the Oilers, Senators, and Flames could and most likely would be next to head south. Bettman brought in that program for the Oilers, Flames, and Senators where they would receive funding on the conditions that they would hit a percentage of attendance and commit to eventually building new arenas. I guess when you’re just a teenager and you watched teams like the Nordiques and Jets go rather quickly and your favourite team could be next, you just look at the blame at face value.
There are some comparatives between the mid/late 90s and today. I’m doing my best to not get political but it does have a lot of bearing in this (believe it or not). Back then, we had a Liberal government in power who overspent badly and took Canada into a recession and a big devaluing of our dollar with a rise in cost of living. Today, we have another Liberal government who has overspent even more so, a larger devaluing of our dollar, and yet a higher cost of living. When your team has to charge so much for tickets, and then charge even more, it’s harder to get to games. When everything else becomes so expensive that you are jostling money around figuring out how to buy the necessities in life and working as much overtime as you can just to get ahead, it’s tough. I live three hours east of Edmonton just an hour into Saskatchewan. In the late 2000s to mid 2010s i would easily go to at least one Oilers game a season. That’s the ticket(s), the petrol to drive there and back, going for lunch, getting a hotel room, beer at the game. Now, I’m seriously considering cutting my television just to eliminate another bill.
I’m not trying to get sympathy nor trying to push a political issue, I’m just stating facts. And I totally get why the NHL is bullish on returning to Quebec City at this time. I’m just one example, and all things considered I’m in somewhat decent shape financially compared to a lot of other Canadians.
i'm pretty sure only the leafs made money this year for canadian NHL teams. all other teams had attendance issues and were at full salary cap. not a good look.
@@chrisbelos2834 Habs out-attend the Leafs, by a wide margin, despite being near the bottom of the league standings. Pretty sure they made lots of money last season.
@@chrisbelos2834 and Edmonton made a ton of money. Idk what your talking about man
true....i eat 2 hot-dogs a day and apply to any job i see and never get any call back...even at Mcdonalds....apparently 39 is too old to be hired now....
@@kokocaptainqc c'est peut-être toi le problème... je ne connais personne dans mon entourage qui a de la difficulté à trouver du travail 🤷♂️
That was probably the best discussion I have ever heard on the subject of the Nordiques and expansion in general.
I saw this video recommended by a fan on facebook. I'm glad I came by to watch. Subscribed and looking forward to really checking out your channel in depth. Greetings from the sad city of Philadelphia
"The years just seem to blend in the older you get", how true a statement, Shannon. I'm much older than you, and it's true what people used to tell me as I got older, that the older you get the faster time goes by. I do wish the Nordiques were still a team up in Quebec, but I don't think they want 2 teams in Quebec, and they need a bigger stadium. Still have my Nordiques jersey.
Quebec built a new stadium in 2015, 18 259 seats
It's true, and also easily explained by mathematics. When you're 10 years old a year is 10% of your life, when you're 100 it's just 1%.
Can't have 2 Quebec teams but we gotta have 3 California teams, or 3 New York teams.. make it make sense Gary.
@@stevenreid2571 And two Florida teams.
@@pomerlain8924 ONE OF WHICH has a home stadium so out of the way, it's almost like they DONT want anyone watching.
I am in Quebec City and we still feel the pain of our loss... What about the Winnipeg Jets with a 15k seats building compared to us with a top of the line building of 18 500 in a similar market and in the same country ? Peladeau is a separatist and I don't see the NHL willing to have anything to do with that guy... The Desmarais family (Power Corporation) is the one to get it back imo ... Thanks for speaking about it :)
We’re talking hockey here. Forget Péladeau’s politics. I’m a Quebec nationalist yet I would love to see a city like Hamilton FINALLY get a team. They have been screwed by the Ballards for so long it’s sickening. Now their arena which was a good venue for an NHL team would need major upgrades or replacing. I still stand by my point that the NHL must have at the very least 25% Canadien teams. Why not let’s say Regina or Saskatoon, Halifax, hell a second team for Toronto so they could suck twice as much? Just kidding of course but hockey is a Canadian/Québécois sport. Let’s keep it that way. Besides Canada and Quebec are like Siamese twins stuck at the hip-check. Let’s agree on hockey at least.
I'm from Quebec and I was in the building for the last game ever. The Nordiques were my favorite team growing up and it's because of them that I worked 15 years in the hockey world and fell in love with our beautiful sport.
But, even if I would be so hapy to see them back, I have to be agree with you and I don't think they will be back. I think the only chance for that is to have a team in the Eastern Conference who ''WANTS'' to move to Quebec City. I know it's sad for people here, but we have to see the reality and often, reality sucks!
Btw, keep doing that, I really love your content, one of my favorite discoveries this year on youtube! :)
im 40 and i had the chance to see the nordiques about 75 times. I can see the old colisee from my backyard. Thanks for your love of the nordiques !
Enjoyed this as a new hockey fan and recently moving to Northern New York, would be cool to see them come back and have another team relatively nearby. Hoping to go to a Canadiens game next year!
You live in northern NY and isn't a rangers/isles/sabres fan? Interesting
@@thiagoprofili4806 I support the Rangers:)
@@SamxHardscoperx THANK GOD, LETS GO RANGERS
I'm a Habs fan and some of the best hockey I saw in the 1980's and 1990s was between the Habs and the Nordiques. The Nordiques also had a memorable series against Boston in 1982 after upsetting the Habs.
if you wanna know exactly why people are somewhat nostalgics of the MTL-QC rivalry just type ''good Friday game'' in the search....yeah it was war back then.....and looking for it i just saw and remembered that the NHL channel has the whole game uploaded as a classic
I think if a Quebec team was to return to the league, they’d have to add another in the Western Conference to balance things out. For example Quebec/Houston. Same goes for adding a team in the West, there’d need to be a 34th team which would be in the East.
Quebec + Austin, ez
Dont need to add. Move arizona to quebec... detroit back to western conference
@@nordkapp1214 Detroit won't go back to the West. They moved East for a reason.
@@nordkapp1214 yeah nah thats just a bad business move
@@nordkapp1214 I would send Columbus west, Detroit is significally close to Toronto
Gotta love that Shannon has the time, energy, and wrist strength to put this video together during the playoffs. Very interesting topic, unfortunate that it's not going to happen.
The NHL having a discussion with Quebec is simply showing respect. Nothing wrong with being courteous.
Whoa! I'm not sure if it was coincidence but I just commented about this as a video topic! This is awesome! I'm not sure if I had anything to do with it but I want to thank you for the video either way! Super cool to make a comment then it pops up on your feed
Great video.
Perhaps you can do a companion video on the amazing unlikely circumstances that allowed the Winnipeg Jets to return to the league. And how Winnipeg would be sitting in the same situation as Quebec if they were looking for a team today.
i have no clue what happened there.....but my immediate guess was that Bettman wanted to have an argument against people saying he wants to empty Canada of all their teams in the long run
@@kokocaptainqc the story is Winnipeg was essentially the last resort. They wanted to find someone to keep the team in Atlanta however there was no takers since the team was losing too much money and the team didn’t operate the arena they wouldn’t have that extra avenue of income. With no other option they decided to let them move to Winnipeg.
@@DeadAir21The Atlanta Spirit ownership, who bought the Thrashers (along with the NBA Hawks), did not help. They only invested in and cared about the Hawks when both teams stunk.
What a ridiculous franchise fee difference between Seattle and Columbus and Minnesota. Absolutely brutal in that time frame! How could a Canadian team not lose money, players get paid in US dollars and their revenue is in Canadian dollars for the most part, like you mentioned. As for Quebec, who’s going to want to live there.
Who’s going to want to live there? I don’t see French Canadians & Europeans having an issue. It’s the taxes that are the real killer
Mainly that Issue gets overblown, you might have a hard time attracting superstars unless you draft them? Maybe but youll still find your fair share of players that will still want to play for Quebec City. @@axldandy8280
Quebec is a hockey city bringing fans and players from a large area. People that truly love and play the game day in day out. Not having a team there is a huge loss for the game holistically. It really shows the NHL is not about hockey it’s just about money. Maybe time for a change at the helm of the NHL.
Well said.
Name one sports league that isn’t about money. You can’t because they all are. The NHL in particular needs to focus on money because they don’t pull in the same revenue as the other leagues do. The NFL can put a team is essentially any top 50 metro and still make a profit because the tv contracts are so much it’s almost impossible for a team to lose money. Yes there are hockey fans in Quebec, but having a team there doesn’t help help the league as a whole since they’re already watching the NHL. And if you want to be honest that is part of the reason why none of the Canadian franchises don’t want another team in Canada because it just adds another pie cut to their TV revenue.
I live in the Quebec area. I was a Nordiques fan, but I don't see the "return" happening. There's no money out there. I do miss the Montréal/Québec rivalry. That was something!
Like how you mentioned Hamilton as a spot for another NHL team. Such an overlooked location, and maybe just a bit cheaper than having to go to Toronto to watch the only Canadian team close by .
Hamilton seems more practical for a Canadian addition.
“In Atalanta if there’s actual flame”
Haha i see what you did there TFG
I appreciate you actually engaging with the issue and doing the research instead of just saying Bettman is evil and calling it a day. It’s interesting to hear the actual considerations that go into making this kind of decision.
This was very interesting and informative. Thanks Hockey Guy!
The NHL will NEVER return to Quebec. Not happening. They will go back to Atlanta again and Houston first.
Merci Hockey Guy, great assessment.
Up until recently the Florida Panthers would have been in the discussion realm about relocation to Quebec City however with their success in the past two seasons and the Panthers now on the cusp of their first ever Stanley Cup, Hockey passion has been rebirthed here in South Florida and the Panthers are here to stay long term.
I hope! Go Cats!!
Panthers finally won a Cup in June 2024 as I write this comment a day after their victory parade in Ft. Lauderdale
Wow what a great video. I saw you on Brodie Brazil’s channel and immediately subscribed to your channel. Growing up in NYC following the Isles and having lived 20 years on Houston, Houston can easily support the NHL.
Phase 1: Quebec City, Atlanta, Houston, Salt Lake City
Phase 2 : Indianapolis, New Orleans, Kansas City, Saskatoon
This is the first video I came across from your channel and I like your style, no fuss, no BS, plain facts. Nothing you said in there was wrong. Cheers from Montreal!
As for new fans, talk to people in Quebec city area and a lot of them just arent hockey fans anymore. They completely boycotted the league but they would absolutely come back if Quebec had a team.
Hi Shannon, I view 90% of all your videos, on a daily basis, and this one was MY favorite. Great video and hit the mark on every single point on the real obstacles that will make it challenging for the Nordiques to return to Quebec.
bro is best technical NHL YTr. Johnny Hawkey is the only other one who does it for me but more on the charismatic side. THG is the king though.
Ah yes, every hockey fan's favourite topic to come back to every 8-12 months.
Imagine living in Quebec. The topic never sleeps.
Nordiques vs Montreal would be so good
When half the league is filled with desert-hockey, what do you expect?
@@dAiMYoBeAr Desert hockey is doing pretty damn good
@@dAiMYoBeAr Half? You mean two?
The problem with Quebec City is that it's mostly a government town with small and medium-sized businesses that depend on government contracts very little on large corporations.
If Quebec get's an NHL team then Toronto might want one.
They’re shitting the bed with the one they’ve had for over a 100 years you think a new one is going to be a success😂 be real man
@@eb3langer haha yeah, it's an old joke insinuating that Toronto doesn't have an NHL calibre team. But you get the idea lol
Thats low sir
Great analysis. Finally someone who doesn't just automatically blame Bettman. Bettman is a good soldier and that's why he has the job he has. His boss isn't the fans. His bosses are the Board of Governors (owners) and the owners LOVE what he is doing in helping them make money. There was a saying in Moneyball (movie) that rings true here. "Baseball (hockey) can hate him, the great thing about money is that it buys a lot of thing. One of which is to disregard what baseball likes doesn't like." The owners know what they are doing and having growth of fans is more important to them than immediate profits. Deferred profits are promised to be bigger than cashing in today (that's their belief).
Also, when it comes to expansion, don't. Relocate teams that don't deserve it. If it were up to me,
-Relocate the New Jersey Devils. Three teams in the Big Apple metro is too many!
-Relocate the Florida Panthers. Two teams in Florida is too many.
-Relocate the Arizona Coyotes. There have been given chance after chance. Enough already!
-Relocate the Anaheim Mighty Ducks. Two teams in the Hollywood metro is too many. Should have gone to San Diego to begin with.
-If Hamilton wants a hockey team, go get the Buffalo Sabres.
-If Atlanta or Charlotte wants a hockey team, go get the Carolina Hurricanes.
-If Cincinnati or Cleveland wants a hockey team, go get the Columbus Blue Jackets.
-If Hartford wants a hockey team, go get the New York Islanders.
My FANTASY division realignment:
Pacific - Las Vegas, San Diego, Los Angeles, San Jose, Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton.
Central - Colorado, Winnipeg, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Chicago, St. Louis, Dallas, Houston.
Metro - Detroit, Columbus, Washington, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Long Island, Manhattan, Buffalo.
Atlantic - Nashville, Tampa Bay, Charlotte, Boston, Montreal, Quebec, Ottawa, Toronto.
The Devils aren't relocating anywhere! They shouldn't relocate, either! And, Thank God it's not up to you!
@@Christopher_Penc - New York City has too many hockey teams,
Aviator-Shoemaker-Sole-Helium-Over-Laser-Entrance!
Last time I checked, basketball, football, and especially baseball was more popular in NYC, and NYC wasn't even big enough for three BASEBALL teams LONG TERM, you
Food-Under-Car-Keys-Ice-Nathan-Giant
waste of
Salad-Pie-Electric-Radish-Mushroom!
@@psychopathyoutubeemployees280 NYC area doesn't have to many teams. All 3 NHL teams are doing great! Stop wanting teams to be taken away from their fans and having their hearts broken and being miserable!
excellent podcast re this hockey subject....good info and great dialogue.and the podcaster does a very fine job of doing it !!!
I gotta say. Where I live, is equidistant from Boston, Montreal, and NYC. It’s cheaper for my wife and I to cross the border into Montreal, get tickets for us and our two boys, AND stay overnight, than it is to get two tickets and a cheap room in Boston or NY. Jeremy Jacobs should really give back to the bruins fans. Until then, I’ll keep going and watching the Canadiens live.
one of my favorite channels, on any subject. ........i learn so much. thanks for posting.
I love how people are bashing Bettman when he's one of the main reason we still have teams in Canada other than Montreal.
Ikr. He was literally one of the/if not the most active person in trying to keep teams like QC and Winnipeg in Canada, yet people blame him for supposedly moving those teams. Besides, the commissioner doesn’t make big decisions. Gary’s job is only to represent the owners so anything he says is something that the owners chose
i went to quebec city for a flyers nordiques game the atmosphere was fantastic
vive le québec libre
Great in-depth video. Thanks
1) to throw people off you should keep the Nordiques sticker up for game 2 💀 and 2) as an Avs fan I would love to see the return of the Nordiques I could only imagine the Avs vs Nordiques game at ball arena that would be nuts
Just got back from Montréal and Quebec City. Best time ever. Only thing missing was playoff hockey. Quebec will make so much money and generate new fans immediately.
I would love to see the Nordiques back in Qc City! Hey would it be amaizng if Quebec media etc had their way and all players were Quebec born players!
Oh yes, because having french speaking only gms and head coaches in montreal has worked so well for them the last 30 years
This time is over...it cost too many bucks to play hockey and 40 % of the population are poor in Quebec province.
Am from Ottawa-Gatineau & am a big Sens fan. Love the old Nordiques logo. Would love to see Quebec City get a team again. For this reality to ever happen they would need to be part of a joint bid where 4 NHL franchises join at the same time, i.e, 2 for the East (QC and Houston let's say) and 2 for the West.
It's also a super french market like it or not and that's an issue! Like many times before, the team would have a hard time retaining players long term and attracting them to sign. You aren't getting Americans or Western Canadians, playing in Quebec long term, Montreal has a hard enough time.
"If there's actual *flame* where there's that smoke about Atlanta coming in....." I see what you did there.
Amazing video. Shannon i’m from Quebec and your video made me understand why we can’t have a team(still could, but there’s potential elsewhere)
Their expansion was deferred not rejected I believe they will return sooner or later than expected just as I believe with Las Vegas and Seattle
Ok I'm in the Phoenix area and you can rip AZ all you want but the market is huge and when the team has been good it can attract fans. Remember the NHL ran the team for years and they had their best success during that time. The logistics of the valley hurt the team with the location of the Glendale arena. You're talking about a metro area that is over 80+ miles wide. The drive to the far side of the valley during rush hour was a nightmare. If/when a Tempe stadium is built would be a huge win for the fans as it would make it easier for those from both sides of the valley. I am originally from Las Vegas (born and raised) and never would have thought a hockey team would be huge. What helped was good ownership and a winning team. So LV is proof hockey can succeed in AZ, it just needs a chance to have a run of success. Also the youth hockey here has really grown leaps and bounds with help from the NHL/Coyotes (example: Auston Matthews). So don't count AZ out. Yes Houston is a bigger market (7 million to PHX 5) but AZ already has the fans and history with the team.
I live 5+ hours away from mtl. I love hockey but never been to a game, been a fan of Montreal all my life. If there were a team in Quebec I'd go often and would change allegiance right away. The mtl-qc rivalry would make bank for the league and not only for the first years.
Edit: tourism is really big in Québec city. That's a lot of international people coming to a city and maybe going to a game one night.
@@jeffreycairns767 bas saint Laurent
You'd switch teams, but from the league's perspective, a fan is a fan, whether you buy the red or the blue jersey.
@@alainsoucysergerie9879 haven't spent on mtl yet, will spend on QC
@@alainsoucysergerie9879 Québec stopped following hockey as religiously as it did for multiple reasons but a rivalry would bring those people back which would effectively bring "new" fans.
since we're probably almost neighbours, rimouski here, im happy you didnt do like many others and became a Boston fan in 96....me i was always a habs fan since the day i knew what hockey is but i was a Nordique if they played any other team
I’ve been fortunate enough to visit the beautiful city of Quebec and unfortunately old enough (44) to remember the Nordiques playing the Bruins. The city is an absolute jewel and deserves a franchise. As a fan perspective I would never want to travel to cities like Columbus, Atlanta or others to watch the Bruins but would absolutely love to take a weekend trip to watch a game in Quebec City. The NHL I’m not sure considers this aspect when contemplating a team. Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal, both NY teams and Boston are all within close proximity where even in down years you would have ticket sales increased by these fans. Hope Quebec gets a team.
It would be cool if the WHA returned and we could see cool communities like Hartford and Quebec City again!
God yes, let's break up the NHL monopoly.
It would fail just like it did the first time around.
Watched the Cincinnati Stingers all the time as a teenager
I would love a new WHA. I haven't watched the NHL for years. Bettman killed it for me.
Great video, great sports talk! Glad I found the channel.
Hey Shannon, a solution for smaller market : a coop owned team, a bit like the Green Bay Packers? Could the citizens of Quebec city who wants to be members just buy a part of the team? I'm sure plenty of fans would love to put of their money to claim they own a bit of their team!
Love your content!
If the NHL was worth anything at all as a league, every team would be fan owned and we wouldn't have any of these bullshit sunbelt teams.
@@APJTA Why are the teams in Sunbelt bullshit? Tampa, Las Vegas, Dallas and Carolina had better attendance than Edmonton (Playoff team) & Winnipeg.
Very clear commentary. Success in QC would have a lot to do with how much they can invest in players and the quality of coach they get - Vegas and Seattle did well in their first couple years. Both are clearly hockey towns. But they have to win early and often.
Yeah...I have a Whalers jersey from long after they moved.
Yes! I totally agree. I think fans think 'they'll fill the building! That's growth!' When it is just siphoning fans from other markets. Quebec City would be like owning the only coffee shop in town and then opening another. Would you get customers? Yeah, but you're just competing in a market that you already had. There are so many places that would be better for the game as a whole than QC. Nothing against the Nordiques, it's just a terrible market for growth of the game
This is a bad example regarding the fact that your second market allows for more reach (aka. Theres 10 mcdonalds per town for a reason)
@@gabrielpoupou1479 only in extremely large cities lol. But like for example i have two McDonald's choices from where i live. One is 8 miles, the other is 12. I stopped going to the one that is 12 miles away when the other one opened up that was closer.
Funny that you say that because hockey will never be a big sport in the Southern US. They already have baseball, basketball, football. It's a much tougher competition for entertainmaint dollars than in Quebec.
Ottawa is closer to Montréal than Montréal is to Quebec City.
And plopping one down in Hamilton wouldn't do the same?
Let me use your example, but in a more fleshed out way: Imagine everyone in a city loves coffee, but there is only one coffee shop. for 50% it is easy to get to, now the other 50% LOVES coffee, but cant spend anything on it because the coffee shop is 3 hours away and this dissuades them from ever going/spending. If a second coffee shop was set up at the other side of town, would it therefor really redirect much of the profits of the original shop if most never even traveled to get stuff at the original shop?
"We can't give them what they want, they want it too much!"
Their logo and jersey is one of my favorites of all time. I hope they come back one day.
I think it would be cool if we had a 4 way expansion draft where the Nordiques, Thrashers, Whalers, and a new team came in to be the final NHL teams to be added.
Did you know that Winnipeg was actually supposed to be an expansion and Atlanta was supposed to stay, but things didn’t end up working out? This draft would essentially be bringing an alternative timeline into the NHL, where the Avalanche, the new Jets, and the Hurricanes were expansion franchises! I think that would be quite cool!
Do you have a link to the story about Winnipeg being an expansion team?
@@YanikFM I read that a while back, I don’t remember the article but you could probably look it up.
No more expansion. 32 is enough
I live in Colorado and obviously the Nordiques came here approximately 20 years ago and of course you all know the history. As an avs fan I feel like we almost stole a title from Quebec City. You won't hear me complain about the 3 Stanley cups. That being said I wish the great people in Quebec could get a team
You are a smart fan. **applauds**
The MAIN obstacle (and by far) is Gary Bettman ... as long as he is in duty ... Quebec will not be back in the Big League.
17800 the crowd of junior hockey in Québec! (yesterday)
Great overview of Quebec City and if/when the Nordiques will ever return. There are many obstacles to overcome, the CDN dollar, population base and lack of HQ offices (private box revenue) would be a challenge. But they do have a rink, fans and a potential owner so there are pluses as well. Selfishly, I would like to see them get a team but the NHL would probably prefer to expand or move a team to Houston, Atlanta, Kansas, Cleveland or Portland (or even the GTA) first. Also, I checked out the Nordiques potential logo that never was. I didn't like it and am sure they would have returned to the igloo stick by now.
My Canadian friends would love me. In Custom League in NHL I expand to 40 teams across 8 divisions with no conferences and Québec, Hamilton and Saskatoon are in, alongside Hartford, Houston, Atlanta, Utah, and Wisconsin.
As a Coyotes fan I am intimately aware of the whole Quebec City situation. Not a day goes by when some enterprising Nords fan tells me that I am not worthy of being a hockey fan or having a home team because of where I live (I guess that didn't apply back in the good ol' days when I watched Wayne Gretzky play for the Indianapolis Racers, but I digress). Having said that, I would love to see the Nordiques back in the NHL. But it's got to make sense, and I think that there's not a way for it to happen without some sort of public subsidy arrangement similar to how the Jets worked out their deal with Winnipeg. If they can get that figured out, then by all means, put a team in Centre Videotron. The Nords/Habs rivalry would be incredible.
The coyotes are literally a drain on the city and are at the bottom of attendance in the league. They are the worst sports franchise of the modern era and a prime example of Bettmans expansion delusions
I remember when Eric Lindros was drafted by Quebec and refused to play for them. Turned out to be a good thing for both the Nordiques and Flyers, because that trade ended up bringing Forsberg to the Nordiques/Avalanche and Lindros to the Flyers, both turning into big parts of their franchises.
On another note, I took a trip to Quebec City in the last year the Nordiques were in the city. It was during the league meetings in town. I think there were still fans at the time they left that are still fans today. You're right, though...It's not a market where you'd get new fans. It is, though, a way to test out small markets to see if someplace like Halifax or Saskatoon would work...I don't like the idea of going back to Atlanta, though. Atlanta had the Flames and they left. Then they had the Thrashers and they left. Why did they leave? If it was just bad ownership, then I understand going back to the city, but if it's really a lack of interest, then I say trying somewhere else like Houston or a smaller market.
beauty jersey
What hurts Quebec the most is the sales of cooperation (luxury)boxes they would need more investments from local companies to be viable.
Would a double expansion be possible?
Houston gets a team and Quebec City gets a team?
Double the profits for the NHL and balanced conferences.
There isn't really that much of another option if the NHL wants balanced conferences, unless Toronto gets a 2nd team, which I doubt is likely
Atlanta would be the other East option that they're probably interested in. That being said, double expansion is likely the only way that they allow more expansion in the future because they need to keep the conferences even (or in the hypothetical situation where they make a European division that would need at least two teams just to exist at all).
I can see Houston/Atlanta entering simultaneously, but I could see something like KC/QC or Milwaukee/QC as well. There's tons of options for them to pursue it's just a matter of what they want to do.
I think it would be cool to one day see Thunder Bay get a team if the city gets bigger.
I’ve always liked the idea of Tampa moving there and having the team named the “Thunder Bay Lightning” and keeping the same brand, jerseys and colors😁👍🏻
Would Milwaukee be viable for NHL? I mean it's a hockey state in Wisconsin
It would, but the owner of the Chicago Blackhawks would do whatever he could to block any NHL attempt. He considers Milwaukee apart of his market and will not give it up.
Well said to explain the issue with Quebec City. I personally would love to see the Nordiques return. And I feel it will eventually happen.
I would love to see another New England team. Never gonna happen but it would be amazing.
Like maybe Hartford?
@@tjolsonmcse well no, not Hartford. I mean it would probably have to be in CT if they did add a team to new England but I don't want that in my fantasy lol.
Shannon, great analysis on this subject. Well thought out and sensible.
A random scattered thought:
Living in the southeast in the last 20 years really opened my eyes on something. The NFL does well down here. But if every single team moved north? They'd be like "well more money to spend on SEC football (and even to much lesser but still significant extent, ACC football).
For a variety of cultural reasons, CHL/junior hockey does *NOT* have this same hold in Canada. For all we profess to love the game, we go bananas about junior hockey for 3-4 weeks in December/January, then go compartively apathetic about it the other 11 months of the year. Sure, the games are attended decently enough for the markets they're in, but NCAA football (the gridiron equivalent of junior hockey) is a *religion* down here. In a way CHL/junior hockey just isn’t in Canada. You don't have hours of time eaten up on Sportscenter evaluating the games, preseason, etc etc etc.
In other words, the meccas of gridiron football don't need to beg for the NFL. They'd rather have it, absolutely, but college (and even high school) football is more than enough to sate their pride.
If Canadian hockey fans built their entire fan culture & identity around the CHL the way southerners do around the SEC, it'd be the NHL begging them for more attention & not the other way around.
College football is stupid; it amounts to shitty professional football and only stupid people love it. Canadian people probably just don't consume inferior hockey the way that southern American people consume second rate football. I might add that NASCAR, which is literally cars driving in a circle, is also extremely popular in the southeastern United States.
The volume of games make Football an event but a hockey game a common occurrence which plays a HUGE role in the lack of interest for it most of the year it takes too much time to follow it properly and once you get used to skipping a few games you start missing more and more of them.
I'm not even halfway through the video and I've already heard more reasonable explanations for why there's no team in Quebec than in the last 25 years. Thanks for such a well researched video!
I, quite honestly, do not see the NHL expanding any time soon. MLB will go to 32 long before NHL goes to 33 or 34.
Would love to see Quebec back in the NHL, but I also don't think it will happen. But what Quebec should at least get is an home&home between the Canadiens and the Avalanche wearing Nordiques, both games at Videotron Centre every second year. Jersey sales would be incredible, a lot of revenue and a lot of fun for the fans.
I think the "create new fans" focus from the NHL is to make broadcasting rights and sponsorship rights more valuable. That's mo' money for everybody in the league.
The create new fans thing would be really cool to put a team in London. Maybe you add one other in Stockholm and stop there. Four game road trips over there for the NA teams.
Someday.
@@daftelf playoffs and the rigorous every other night schedule would simply not make this doable
@@drizzt102 maybe international series automatically go to 2-3-2
@@daftelf i dunno if the league would be down. The mean travel schedule is part of the playoff grind. With games every other night etc.
Dont get me wrong itd be pretty cool but i dunno how you work it playoff wise especially.
Very well made video. I hope the city of Quebec gets a hockey team. They need it🇨🇦🏒
The only neews I have heard about Houston is the rumor from a month ago that Bucigross mentioned and that the Houston Rockets owners control the Toyota Arena, they have deep pockets and they want an NHL team. The Toyota Center was home to the IHL/AHL Aeros and can be a home to an NHL team. If it needs upgrades, then it will get upgrades.
The problem I see with Houston is that it hasn't had an ice hockey team for about a decade, and when they did have one, attendance wasn't great compared to the size of the building they played in. I don't think that market can support an NHL team.
@@THE_bchat I cannot disagree with you more. The AHL Aeros wete drawing big crowds when they made the playoffs. Remember that those Aeros were acminor league team. The WHA Aeros did okay at the gate. Metro Houston has 8.5 million people. It can support the NHL.