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I have a background in hockey if you ever want...an opinion that isn't some shill for Arizona or Atlanta coughing nonsense into your ear Just saying - not qualified to talk about baseball lol but if you want I can explain why Cincinnati is a nonstarter
@@sampicanoNot sure if Mr. Brazil will take you up on your offer, but I would be interested in the Cincinnati situation. I live in Pittsburgh and a big Pens fan. A Cinci team would be a natural rival for us. But I do agree with Mr. Brazil's assessment that an NHL expansion right now could do more harm that good. The possibility of one or more teams moving would also be something I would like to know about if you have any thoughts on that. As far as Atlanta is concerned, dead on arrival if that ever happens. Thanks.
@@jeffreywj7773 "Not sure if Mr. Brazil will take you up on your offer, but I would be interested in the Cincinnati situation." I agree. He took up someone on their Atlanta shilling just this week.
@@brodiebrazil I did my friend. I provided a lot of information on your Atlanta, and Arizona NHL videos - and I left a detailed comment on this video much love man, but that guy spreads disinformation about the Atlanta hockey market IT IS A HELL OF A COINCIDENCE that since Atlanta announced they were building an arena, the amount of accounts spreading lies about Atlanta's hockey market grew too... Weird right? Nobody comments from 2011 to 2022 Then the Gathering at Forsyth gets announced and then all the RUclips accounts pop up talking about how good of a market Atlanta was. "It was managements fault" "Atlanta is the fastest growing hockey market in the South" "Atlanta had fans and good attendaces" All of that is lies. Weird how the lies started ramping up after they decided to build an arena haha disinformation campaign - A disinformation campaign is a targeted, organized information attack on a company, a party, an institution or an individual, whereby a large number of demonstrably false or misleading information (disinformation) is published, which serves the purpose of manipulation and is deliberately disseminated on a large scale. Oh so that's a thing? Interesting. Must be a coincidence that those RUclipsrs didn't say anything between 2011 and 2022.
you might be the only sane person in the entire comment section - portland, milwaukee, quebec city, toronto-hamilton should be the FIRST and only spots for expansion
Milwaukee just doesn't have ownership, I live in the city and we just built the Bucks new arena a few years ago which hosts NCAA hockey. The former Admirals owners the Petit's in the early 90s were almost granted an expansion team (around time of Tampa) but in the end Lloyd thought it would be a money pit and pulled out (and Tampa was a money pit in the 90s, as in the team always lost money).
If the NHL goes to 36 teams and the Nordiques aren't back I would have a conniption. A regular season game between them and Montreal would be more important to more people than the cumulative affect of all games the Squids have played, including a round one win. Omaha, Kansas City and Salt lake city!!! How many hockey fans are in these 3 cities combined? Compared to Quebec?!?
Tiny market in comparison to even SLC. An ant compared to a market like Atlanta and Houston Cry about it. Also the US dollar is more resourceful than the Canadian dollar. So get those tissues ready
As a long time NHL fan I am also in favor of Quebec City getting a team, whether it be through expansion or relocation. The Videotron Centre is phenomenal! OUTSTANDING venue! I hope the Nordiques are back because I agree that the provincial rivalry would return immediately. However, your statement about Kansas City not having any hockey fans is untrue. There is a core fandom in place in Kansas City (for all the sports, not just hockey) and from that there would IMO be adequate to excellent support. Obviously Quebecers would overwhelmingly welcome a NHL team and would support it because hockey is and always will be the #1 sport in Canada. But I'll defend Kansas City to the end here because I've seen the and been a part of the fan support here 1st hand and know that once the NHL team got a foothold as far as fandom is concerned, they'd be here forever.
There will be no team in Québec while Bettman lives!!! Also, has anyone noticed that the Habs haven't won the Cup since the Nordiques moved? And their last Cup? Remember 1993?? If Patrick hadn't stepped up in the locker and motivated their team to beat the Nords, they would NEVER have come out of the 1st round. Their motivation? LES NORDIQUES!!! The next Cup they win will be with a team packed with québécois, and in a league where there's a team 2.5 hours down the "20". So, Geoff? Are ya listening??? :^p
Hi Brodie. I enjoy your videos, thank you for taking the time to produce them. As someone who is a native of Kansas City and used to attend Scouts games back in the 1970's I can accurately state that Kansas City NEVER got a fair chance to succeed in the NHL the way other teams did. By the time Kansas City got a team, all they had left for players were castoffs from other NHL teams and many of those weren't NHL caliber. The Scouts ownership group was quicky saddled with unexpected debt as the World Hockey Association teams (begun in 1972 and were in direct competition with the NHL for players) inflated the salary structure to where the Scouts owners couldn't compete on an even basis. Clarence Campbell was the NHL Commissioner at that time and his "sink-or-swim" attitude toward ALL NHL teams was one that didn't help the Scouts cause. Had Gary Bettman been Commissioner at that time he would've insisted that the NHL Scouts stay in place and would've worked to find acceptable ownership, in order for the team to remain in Kansas City. Also factoring into their demise was the economy of the 1970's, which as the decade drew on, many MANY businesses either had to sell or went out of business altogether. For the 2-seasons that the Scouts were in Kansas City, their crowds were slowly climbing. For example, the average crowd at a Scouts game for their Inaugural season of 1974-75 was around 7,350. In the 1975-76 season their crowds were up to 7.600-plus. Keep in mind, they were a last place team the entire time and they received zero help from the NHL financially, much-unlike the Arizona Coyotes who for the last 15 or so seasons have been subsidized by the NHL partners. In Kansas City, the arena is in place (T-Mobile Center, 17,500), the fan base is there (Chiefs games draw 76,000-plus, the Royals draw sellouts when they're winning) and (NO sports city can claim that their stadium sells out when their team is in last place, in ANY sport), and contrary to your report, Kansas City DOES have a fairly decent corporate base for sponsorship (see the list of sponsors for the Chiefs and Royals). Aside from that, the Hunt family.....IS interested in the NHL but isn't ready to shell out a billion dollars for a team. Kansas City would be the BEST fit of all the aforementioned cities for the NHL's Central Division and the sports fans of Kansas City WOULD come out to support NHL Hockey. The MSA Population of Kansas City is around 2.25 to 2.5 million people which is LARGER than 8 other NHL cities populations. In closing I'll simply state that the cities of Atlanta, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Denver, the Bay area (San Jose) and Winnipeg have ALL been given 2nd chances at the NHL, and now Atlanta is being considered for a 3rd time?!!! WHY NOT KANSAS CITY!!!!? Kansas City deserves a 2nd chance!!!!
Some day, it would be interesting to hear about a possible expansion in Milwaukee. I know that there are logistics issues and it's a smaller market that has already been tap to a certain degree but i would like to hear what someone like Brodie thinks.
I'm not someone like Brodie, but I am a huge hockey fan that lives in Milwaukee (so I do know the market). Honestly, I do kind of laugh every time the NHL here is brought up. The Pettits pursued it back in the late 80s, but wisely moved on from it. The market is not large enough to support both the NBA and NHL. It's like Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Indianapolis... you get one or the other. It's not a growing metro area either. The new arena (Fiserv Forum) was built primarily for basketball. It has hosted college hockey tournaments and an NHL pre-season game, but the seating configuration would not be acceptable for the NHL. The Admirals play two blocks south at UWM Panther Arena, which would definitely not work for the NHL. Also, fan support for the Admirals could be much better, as they are averaging about 6000 this season, and are consistently near the middle of the AHL in attendance. While I can't speak for everyone, there are a lot of fans like myself that do not even want the NHL. We love what we have with the Admirals... that we can take a family to see a high level of pro hockey without taking out a loan to do so. I just think there are much better markets for the NHL.
@@admirals818 " It's like Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Indianapolis... you get one or the other" Pittsburgh - Pirates, Penguins, Steelers....okay 3 teams Indianapolis - Pacers, Colts...okay....2 teams St. Louis - Blues, Cardinals...2 teams So it isn't one or the other. Turns out you can have multiple sports per city. I guess you meant, either basketball OR hockey. I don't know why that would be a choice - either BASEBALL or FOOTBALL not both - what a stupid thought What is more popular in Wisconsin, basketball or hockey? It's DAMN CLOSE.... Wisconsin NCAA hockey - averages 10,059 per game...how do they find the time since they are busy supporting the Bucks???? I always thought Milwaukee was a GREAT HOCKEY CITY....are you telling me Milwaukee is the only city in the US with 1,574,731 people that can't support a hockey team??? That's mind blowing. There are cities in the South with 1.5 million that support their teams - is Milwaukee just a garbage hockey town?
See my post... I don't want MKE to have a pro team. I feeeeeeeeel like MKE doesn't have enough spare cash between Packers, Bucks, and Brewers to bankroll another winter team. The Admirals are an amazing bang for the buck when it comes to tickets. I can bring my family of 5 and watch a game with food for like $200 all up. If it were an NHL team, that'd be like 2 or 3 tickets?
@@seang13 Well, Milwaukee does have a pro team - the Admirals. I do want them. But yeah, the 20+ Admirals games my daughter and I go to every season would equal very few NHL games. I don't think we have to worry about it, fortunately.
@@seang13 "If it were an NHL team, that'd be like 2 or 3 tickets?" Yeah probably, it would also be an NHL team competing for the Stanley Cup against the Chicago Blackhawks and Minnesota Wild... It would be something you could WATCH AT HOME and hurry home from work and listen to on the radio during the playoffs... It's SO MUCH better than an AHL team...
Gretna, NE (where you mentioned the outlet mall) is a growing community along with the surrounding areas. Not sure if hockey would work here. Yeah, we have a few small hockey teams in Omaha, Lincoln and Kearney. But, we have a tremendous volleyball team with the Supernovas.
I would love an Omaha/Gretna based team. I grew up in Lincoln, but have since moved to western NE. Also, don't forget about Sioux City in the USHL. That's really not far away from Omaha. To be fair, the Stars, Lancers, Storm, and Musketeers don't like each much, but I think we could all come together for an NHL team. We also have the UNO Mavericks, and I heard something about a UNL hockey team moving up. Hopefully a Big10 level team. Nebraska is a great emerging hockey market. I hate to say emerging, because it's been here for a long time, but in the NHLs eyes it's emerging.
Cheers Brodie, I love your content and watch every video you post. I even tune into Sharks broadcasts just to listen to you (and now Jason Demers), lol. I wanted to touch on Kansas City and its potential for an NHL team. Although it seems like a mixed bag of potential and unlikelihood, we are a city that lives and dies by our sports. We don’t have much in terms of tourist attractions or historical landmarks, but we have successful college and professional sports teams and a dedicated fanbase that is fiercely loyal. So, I truly believe that the absence of relative competition for professional hockey in this market-trust me, we aren’t interested in the Blues here, just as we aren’t interested in the Cardinals nor were we interested in the Rams when they were based in STL-presents an opportunity. What sets us apart in Kansas City, compared to places like SLC and ATL, is Patrick Mahomes and the Kelce Family. Travis and Jason grew up playing hockey and have expressed their love for the sport fervently. Additionally, Taylor Swift has been attending Preds games in Nashville for years! I genuinely believe that a management/ownership team consisting of Mahomes, Kelce, & Swift could not only succeed but also elevate the NHL beyond the success of the MLB & NBA. And let me tell you, the KC population would support an NHL franchise-whether it be in expansion or relocation-without even an ounce of doubt!
I've been surprised with Cincinnati for expansion talks. I am in southern ohio, east of Cincy a couple hours and you're also competing with Penguins fans. For alot of us that was the main team up until the Blue Jackets came in and alot of people including myself remained Penguins fans. When we go to games in Columbus about 30% of the crowd are Penguins fans. I am also curios about folks in Kentucky as i would guess you would be stepping into Predators fans territory. So add those 2 teams to the list with Col, Det & Chicago. I would be more interested in an NBA team in Cincinnati as the closest teams now are Cleveland and Indy both a little over 4 hours away. Right now we don't have the ability to go on a one day trip to an NBA game as we do with the NHL, MLB and NFL.
Cincinnati is a metro area similar in population and in corporate HQs to Pittsburgh and there is no wintertime team. The NBA is in Indianapolis, not far away. The NHL would work in Cincy with a new arena.
As usual, a great video, Brodie. If I might, here’s some Canadian context to NHL expansion. There are two markets here that would take in teams tomorrow, if they could. Quebec City has been lobbying to get their team back. Their challenge is corporate support and potential blacking by Montreal. And Toronto wants a 2nd team. And they support one, not just with fans but corporate support. It would be a question of the Leafs seeing sense in the idea. All that to say that if - and as you say, a big IF - the NHL expands to 36, there would be revolt/consternation here if at least one of those expansion teams didn’t come here. However, hockey is dwindling in popularity here. The market is monopolized and saturated to the point that people feel less and less connected to the teams. Couple that with a Stanley Cup drought of 30 years, as well as players not wanting to play in Canada, and it’s a hard sell. The NHL knows this and likely would look to places Cincinnati or Omaha to fill the gaps left by Canadian interest. Cheers!
Great points - kinda fumbled over the finish line... Cincinnati and Omaha have close to zero chances. They don't even have AHL teams - that's how FAR AWAY from the NHL they are. Not good ECHL teams, no where near the AHL....let alone being a JUGGERNAUT in the "A" Cincinnati isn't even the best spot in Ohio hahahaha
More sammy drivel. Forget Quebec. Not happening, not ever again. Not after the Ottawa bankruptcy and the Winnipeg troubles. Small Canadian matket with the cheaper Canadian dollar.
Brodie, it will be more than 100 players because you have to build out AHL and other minor league teams of which many of those players count against the cap in Hockey.
Idea: If you had 36 teams, you could have a 20 team playoff format: 12 teams qualify for playoffs, and 8 teams qualify for brief best-of-3 play-in series to decide the final 4 spots. Quick bo3 series would avoid long waits for the 12 qualified teams, and would be very urgent from game 1. Just an idea! This would help deal with the issue of franchises suffering from not qualifying for the playoffs for many years running like what happened to the Thrashers…
For all the people saying Quebec should get a team, you need to think like a business owner and not a fan. The NHL is trying to grow the game. Getting NEW fans, consumers, even players. While people think Bettman hung onto Arizona too long, there have been several top players come through that area the last few years because of the Coyotes being there. Going to Atlanta, Houston, KC makes sense from a business and growth standpoint. People in Quebec already play hockey, watch hockey, and have teams they support and buy merchandise for. Putting a team in Quebec doesn't ADD anything to the league in any way. Going to markets that could expand the player pool down the road, add new consumers, etc. is the thinking the league has, and should. Also, as a former season ticket holder for the Atlanta Thrashers, hockey will 100% work there with even decent ownership. The location in the northern suburbs will also be huge. Most of the hockey fans live in the northern suburbs and work in Atlanta. When the team played in downtown, it was difficult for people to get off work, go home, pick up the wife and/or kids, then trek back downtown to go to a hockey game.
Arizona is relocating 99% Ryan SMith (billionaire owner of Utah Jazz) has expressed interest Delta Center is NHL ready - but needs some renovations SLC is in the Central division It's basically a foregone conclusion
I'm in Omaha, and I don't know if the city is the right place for an NHL team. There is a very loyal and passionate hockey community here that was excited about the idea of a team, but I question whether it is big or strong enough to make a jump from NCAA/USHL to NHL ticket prices, so I have concerns whether or not enough people that care to sustain season tickets sales (the USHL team isn't close to selling out every game in an arena smaller than what the Coyotes are playing in). Another issue with Omaha is that there isn't a lot of suburban sprawl, outside the immediate Omaha metro and Lincoln, it is virtually empty between here and the other markets (Minnesota/St. Louis ~7 hours away, Colorado/Chicago ~8 hours away). Des Moines and Kansas City are too far away to depend on enough dedicated fans (2.5 hours each).
I would like to see 40 nhl teams I would love to see Hartford, Baltimore, Quebec City, San Francisco, Cincinnati, San Diego in NHl I would love to see 100 games in Regular Season
Baltimore? That is Caps country. Hartford would be playing second and third fiddle to Boston and NY. Quebec City is on Bettman's do not resuscitate list. San Francisco is in the same market as the San Jose Sharks. Ohio doesn't need another team. San Diego is the only city you mentioned that makes sense imo.
It's pronounced for-SYTH...and it's 30 miles, not 45 from downtown. It's also centrally located to the suburbs of Roswell, Sandy Springs, Johns Creek, Alpharetta and Milton...the areas where the hockey fans are. After Bettman allowed the second worst ownership group ever to buy the Thrashers (after the Isles and Spano) and immediately put them on the market, we should get a legit shot and having a team with committed ownership. But so does Quebec. I see the league adding SLC, Houston, Atlanta and Quebec.
Great Video..My personal favorites are Utah, Nebraska, and Kansas City….with that said I would like to see some talk about Sioux Falls South Dakota, it’s a growing place with a strong hockey culture. Sioux Falls would be a great place
I like the input you gave, makes a lot of sense. I appreciate and understand your point about Cincinnati with the drawbacks being so close to cities like Columbus. I am a Blue Jackets fan, however I will say I have a different take FOR Cincinnati to have a NHL team for two reasons: 1. Cincinnati had a great following when they had the Stingers in the WHA, but the city and fans were robbed when they weren’t allowed to join the consultation of the NHL and WHA 2. With MLS teams in Columbus and Cincinnati, it has created an exciting rivalry between the Crew and FC Cincinnati. If I remember right they have called the rivalry “Highway to Hell”. So I can perceive the possibly of another enjoyable rivalry occurring here. These are just my thoughts I know, but I the positive possibilities here. Wishing you all the best today, take care!
Cincy would do well, with the right backing. Look what happened to soccer here. They've been crushing attendance records since they were a team! And The Cincinnati Cyclones do well here.
Honestly, it would be better if the Ducks just moved there. Blow up the Battle of LA to the Battle of SoCal. The Ducks already have their farm team there too, so they already have a fanbase down there. And it's not like Orange County is THAT far away from San Diego. LA and San Diego are relatively close to each other, so it wouldn't be like the Dodgers moving from Brooklyn to LA.
Omaha is more event-based, and they do it well … College World Series, NCAA Tournament almost every year. Similar to Winnipeg, they could probably support a team, but there aren’t really outskirts to draw from … KC is 3 hours away. I used to live in Downtown Omaha, walking distance from the arena (which is nice and modern, etc.) but I am skeptical. They don’t even currently have minor league hockey.
I think San Diego has a good shot. Even tho it seems too close to LA, keep in mind it’s more distant than many east coast teams are to each other, especially the Philly, DC, NY, NJ, Long Island, and Boston area. They also lack a big 4 sports team besides the padres and the San Diego gulls has some success in the city, a massive population too 9th biggest in the USA or something?
1. Salt Lake City 2. Houston 3. QUEBEC 4. Kansas City 5. Atlanta 6. Cincinnati 7. Omaha. Portland (OR) should probably be on this list as well and be ahead of at least 2 or 3 of these cities.
Milwaukee? Or is hockey not a thing there? Market considered too small? No willing billionaire available? It would seem a natural fit, you have a team in Minnesota, a team in Michigan, a natural rivalry, cold weather state also. Wisconsin residents watching, do you want the NHL? I thought the NHL chose Columbus to eliminate the problem of choosing between Cleveland and Cincinnati...
Agree. Columbus is right in the middle of the state and can draw from both the south (Cincy area) and the north (Cleveland area). Plus, the NHL wouldn't survive in Cincy or Cleveland IMO.
Honestly, it would be better if the Blue Jackets just moved from Columbus to Cincinnati. The Cincinnati market is way bigger than Columbus, and its metro area crosses over into Kentucky and Indiana. It would broaden their reach dramatically, connecting with three states for the price of one similar to how the Reds pull from all three states. They also change their branding to the old WHA Stingers while they're at it. Bringing that old hockey heritage would make them an even more attractive team to cheer for. Especially since Messier played for the Stingers before the WHA/NHL merger.
If you read between the lines of the Gary Bettman interview during all-star weekend, it seemed evident that time is almost up for the Coyotes to secure a new arena site and financing, and his #1 relocation target is Salt Lake City. Makes sense because SLC only has the NBA so far, so the NHL could get in before MLB (heavy favorite as one of the two expansion franchises IMO) or the NFL (highly unlikely anytime in the near future) to establish a fan base.
I’d love to see the NHL in SLC, but despite being a winter sports center (2002 Winter Olympics, for example), I don’t know if there’s much of a hockey culture there. I think there’s only a couple of kids in the NHL that grew up in Utah. I went to the gold medal hockey game at the Olympics, and it was in a tiny arena (like 7000 seats), and most of the fans were Canadians. Maybe it would work, but I’m not sure.
The Cincinnati Stingers and Houston Aeros should have been part of the WHA merger in the 70’s. Cincinnati’s arena is pretty old and Houston is not a hockey city so unless they’re successful out of the gate like the Golden Knights, it could be a struggle. Milwaukee and a return to Hartford make more sense than any of the others listed here (Omaha?). No Canadian cities? Quebec and Hamilton deserve it way more than most of these.
I know I’ve said this before, but I’ll say it again: The NHL does not need more than 32 teams. BUT…all things being equal, I think Salt Lake City, Kansas City, Atlanta & Houston all have excellent cases for acquiring teams via relocation. It’ll be interesting to see who wins the NHL franchise sweepstakes.
As an older fan, I already have like zero interest in seeing Carolina, Columbus, Nashville, heck even Tampa or Florida, etc… Contraction might be better.
Solid video... I think it comes down to SLC being a "rising" city. Their plan seems interesting and they have the "snow factor". I can't give ATL a third chance with a team not located downtown, especially when you see how far away Forsyth is from the city. That's a recipe for mediocre attendance. And tbh, I'd just move the Coyotes to one of the 6 cities and be done with it. If you can't straigthen out arena issues over a decade, you can't do it. Most of the cities you listed seem like great places to put an AHL team. I'm looking at you Omaha, Cincy, and KC. Ironically, maybe Phoenix just needs and AHL team... I love watching the NHL games, I love attending AHL games. I'd be intrigued to see if the AHL was expanding. Maybe do a video on that topic. I say this as a MKE resident.
I think any discussion on the NHL expanding to 36 or 40 teams that doesn't contain a Canadian city - whether Saskatoon, Regina, Quebec City, or Halifax - is misguided at best. Personally, I think Arizona sells and relocates to Salt Lake City within the next year. And I think realistically your expansion for the NHL is Houston, Atlanta, Quebec City, and Kansas City. Two east, two west. Swap KC for Salt Lake if the Yotes somehow get their act together and find a permanent home in Phoenix. Do I think the NHL Expands again? Yes. There are players floundering in the AHL because of rosters being jammed up that are not able to play at the highest level despite being ready. There's at least 100 players that could fill out rosters for four expansion clubs.
I love how Brodie keeps everything simple, succinct and to the point when he talks about sports while also presenting himself as a warm and friendly guy. The kind of guy you can talk about sports with for hours on end without getting bored.
Who has a collection of all the modern era jerseys of NHL teams that have either folded or relocated: California Golden Seals (Oakland), Kansas City Scouts, Cleveland Barons, Atlanta Flames, Colorado Rockies, Minnesota North Stars, Quebec Nordiques, Winnipeg Jets (old jerseys), Hartford Whalers, Atlanta Thrashers? I think the Seals jersey would be the coolest.
Throwing Indianapolis out there. #25 TV market #34 Metropolitan area with over 2.1 million Has a ready arena to share with the Pacers. Has a strong hockey history and loyal fans to our teams. Only down side for indy is proximity to Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus, Nashville, Detroit. But, if NYC can have 3 teams in that TV market, Indy can thrive with NHL Hockey.
1) I agree with Bruiser Brodie: Stay at 32 teams. 2) If the Coyotes can't finalize a deal for a new arena and full financing by the summer, Bettman should push for relocation to SLC. 3) Keep Houston and Atlanta (in that order) in the league's back pocket in case one or more existing NHL cities are no longer seen as viable. A strong 32 team league is optimal IMO.
Keep your speech, you obviously underestimate Omaha. The corporate group that went to the NHL office to meet with the commissioner laid out a plan that includes the entire area (not just the 74th in the city of Omaha alone), with several multi-million dollar corporations joining an entire entertainment district that includes organizations such as Team USA Volleyball getting a significant upgrade to their operation if they sign on. That's just what I could find with a twelve second google search. We may not get an NHL team, but we will get someone in some sport soon enough. We run the damn CWS yearly- we know how to treat major events. More than I can say for half or better of the current franchise cities. Seriously "I don't mean any disrespect" is basically just saying you want to save face when you know you are being disrespectful.
One positive point about NHL expansion to 36 that I feel doesn’t get brought up enough is that the NHL is in a unique position amongst the professional leagues given that it has less exposure to the US market than the others, and therefore theoretically can handle more expansion at this time, specifically in the US. It has a disproportionately lower amount of US teams (25 US, 7 CA) as a portion of its total league size compared to MLS, NBA, MLB, and NFL. Therefore the thought is that because the NFL/NBA/MLB can support 30-32 teams and/or markets in the US, then the NHL should have no problem doing so either. All expansion candidates to 36 that the NHL will genuinely consider will probably be American because of this. It stings a bit seeing Quebec City being left out of the discussion but I am accepting that it probably won’t happen in the current environment. Canada as a whole has been mostly stagnant in terms of disposable incomes over the better part of the last decade whereas wealth and incomes in the US are growing. For the time being it is probably best to focus on fortifying the business models of the existing Canadian teams (mainly Winnipeg with its hiccups this year, all of the others are consistently doing well enough financially) instead of adding new ones.
About Salt Lake City I was there for a month for army stuff. Went to a few ECHL Utah grizzly games. Those fans love hockey it was refreshing (I live in San Jose) seeing another fan base actually care. About Cincinnati. Tv market doesn’t mean anything. The Bay Area is a huge market for sports but the sharks and A’s rarely reach numbers like the warriors or niners do. Raiders barely got any viewership as well. So market shouldn’t matter. It should matter solely on fan base wanting it. San Jose has how big of a population? Plus add Mountain View, Santa Clara, Morgan hill, Fremont and Palo Alto being so close to San Jose and what are their attendance numbers? I love going to sharks games but today a losing team to back when the sharks were a great winning team they haven’t always filled out the tank on a prime Friday or Saturday night. So population and market size doesn’t matter. Quebec would love an NHL team again. They’re a huge fan base but smaller city and area. No doubt Quebec would sell out their games all the time just like Montreal does with their games
I am from Omaha, no offense taken. While we have the CHI Health Center in downtown Omaha, you were referring to Gretna Crossing, which is about halfway between Omaha and Lincoln. We have the Omaha Lancers of the USHL and also the University of Omaha has a division 1 hockey program.
Anson Carter's bid for an NHL franchise in metro Atlanta is a separate endeavor from The Gathering at South Forsyth; coincidentally, both proposals are in or near Alpharetta off of Georgia Route 400. Carter's group plans to redevelop the site of a struggling mall, while The Gathering is planned for an undeveloped tract near the Forsyth County-Fulton County line.
KC, Houston, Atlanta, SLC are the top 4 Anyone saying Quebec City is not smart enough to understand 1. Market size 2. The US dollar is vastly more desired than the Canadian dollar “But it’s Canada!” Yeah sure, a tiny country and tiny city
Houston is #2 city with most Fortune 500 companies after New York. So corporate support is huge. Houston is a transplant city with a large number of US northerners and Canadiens (because of oil). So I think hockey would do very well. The second iterarion of the Aeros failed because Houston wanted an NHL team no minor league. I grew up in NYC and lived in Houston for over 20 years and it has grown tremendously.
Actually the Aeros left because they got priced out of rent at Toyota Center. The Rockets owner at the time didn't want them at Toyota no more since he and the Aeros' owner had beef that cost them an expansion team in the 90's.
how many Canadians in Houston? and how many Canadians - patriotic CANADIANS FROM CANADA - cheer for Houston based teams hahahahahaha HAHAHAHAHA "Canadians will support the team in Houston" "Plus oil money" HAHAHAHAHAHA
36 teams = 6 divisions * 6 teams Top 2 teams in each division plus 4 wild cards in each conference. Add a 5 game series wild card round. 1. Quebec City (rival Montreal) 2. Houston (rival Dallas) 3. Salt Lake (rival Vegas / Colorado) 4. Atlanta (rival Carolina) 5. Kansas City (rival St Louis)
I’m curious about an NHL Team in New Orleans. the city has a rich sporting culture and is known for its passionate fans, which could translate to a successful hockey market and Having a city has a modern multi-purpose arena, the Smoothie King Center, which could host an NHL team. Thoughts on it?
32 teams is more than enough for any sport, if teams can't draw or have bad owners or stadium issues/problems, then these cities would be good for relocation. Hockey is a cold weather sport for cold weather cities imo. Places like Quebec, Ontario & Halifax would be great options for the NHL, but since it comes to money I don't see it happening anytime soon. Instead they put hockey in places like Anaheim & Columbus, where they could be in Cleveland, Milwaukee or any other Canadien city.
I’m from Columbus and I would love to see Cincy get a nhl team cuz of the rivalry with the blue jackets. Kind of like the hell is real rivalry between the Columbus crew n fc Cincinnati in the MLS
It only dilutes the player pool temporarily, I think its a good thing long term. Just remember without the Yotes, there probably wouldn't be a Matthews.
In this scenario, Arizona would move to the Pacific and Salt Lake would play in the Central to create a SLC-Denver rivalry. Arizona fits much more naturally against SoCal and PNW teams.
FYI: Kansas City: Lamar Hunt Jr., from the Hunt family, owns the ECHL Kansas City Mavericks (a Seattle Kraken affiliate). Their home games are in Independence, MO, 23 miles east of KC. A second NHL team in Ohio: I don't think Cincinnati would be a good idea unless a new arena was built across the Ohio River into Kentucky. The Newport/Covington area has been built into a decent entertainment area. (In my opinion, I don't see that happening.) Also, it would make no sense to have a second NHL team in Ohio, considering Columbus is the largest city in Ohio in population (est. over 892,000) over Cincinnati (302,600), and Cleveland (383,000) despite the Monsters (AHL) recent success.
I’m strongly opposed to expansion , 32 is enough. Maybe not at the moment but in the future merging franchises (not folding or contraction but merge struggling franchises into 1 like they did with the Minnesota north stars & Cleveland Barons back in 1978.)
Kansas City had an NHL team before. The Kansas City Scouts. These days, they're known as the NJ Devils. The Coyotes have such a bad building, it would be great if they could end up in KC or SLC... Just because I hadn't realized it before, KC seems the most novel to me.
Atlanta, a metro approaching 7 million people without a NHL team. It's about time. Expand from 32 to 36. Atlanta, Houston, Salt Lake City, and Kansas City.
No, I don’t want to see expansion. And for all the talk about dilution of talent, I wonder how people feel about diluting of officiating. I’m not one to complain about officials in general, and this wouldn’t be as dramatic as when the league went from one ref to two per game. But if I’m counting correctly, the NHL currently has 44 refs and 40 linesmen. At that pace, four more teams probably means 5-6 more refs and 5 more linesmen. It’ll take a lot for the NHL to convince fans that they will maintain or improve consistency. As for Kansas City, they were courting the Islanders for awhile, when the future of Nassau Coliseum was in question and before the move to Brooklyn. The Isles even played a couple of preseason games in KC. I’m not sure if it generated enough interest.
1) Portland, Oregon - lots of hockey fans, good support for WHL, Portland Rosebuds played for the Stanley Cup, Portland has had hockey for over 100 years, natural rivalry with Seattle. they have MODA Center ready 2) Milwaukee, Wisconsin - second no brainer, tons of fans, Wisconsin is one of the best attended teams in NCAA hockey, natural rivals with Minneapolis and Chicago, plus they have the Fiserv Forum ready 3) Toronto-Hamilton - Toronto is the largest hockey market on Earth, Hamilton is the 9th largest city in Canada, if NY and LA have two NHL teams (and probably shouldn't) Toronto DEIFNITELY should have two teams, FirstOntario Centre in Hamilton is NHL ready and is currently undergoing renovations 4) Quebec City, Quebec - Quebec is the largest city in Canada (7th largest overall) that still does not have an NHL team, Quebec City (839,311) is larger than Winnipeg (834,678) for comparison, Quebec Remparts are one of the best attended teams outside the NHL, Quebec City would have an epic rivalry with Montreal, Quebec City has an NHL ready arena with the Vidéotron Centre 5) Houston, Texas - the largest US market without an NHL team, they had the Houston Aeros in the WHA, and again in the AHL from 2003 to 2013, no hockey teams currently and not much thirst for hockey in Houston in general, but it is a large market (7.1 million) and Tilman Fertita (billionaire owner of the Houston Rockets has expressed interest in owning an NHL team), they would have a rivalry with Dallas, and have the Toyota Center (which needs renovations) 6) Salt Lake City, Utah - the smallest US market in the NHL is Buffalo with (1,125,637 people) and Salt Lake City is only slightly larger (1,257,936), Salt Lake City has a billionaire owner Ryan Smith who has been very vocal about acquiring an NHL team, Salt Lake City has the Delta Center which needs to undergo renovations, but in 2030 or 2034 Salt Lake City is getting the Winter Olympics, and therefore is getting billions of dollars to build infrastructure, despite Utah not being a good hockey market (Utah Grizzlies only average 5,868 per game - and hockey registration in 2020 was only 3,861 - 0.12% of the population are enrolled to play hockey....a tenth of a percent), they are probably frontrunners for the Arizona Coyotes relocation, and Salt Lake City would geographically be in the Central Division San Diego - lack of big four teams (only Padres), this would be a great relocation spot for the Anaheim Ducks who struggle to remain relevant in LA and struggle to genrate revenue, San Diego Gulls have great attendances in the AHL, but California is too oversaturated with hockey Cleveland - this would be a great relocation spot for the Columbus Blue Jackets, Cleveland is the most diehard hockey city in Ohio, Cleveland used to have an NHL team, they also have an NHL ready arena with Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse, however Ohio does not need two NHL teams Kansas City - Kansas City has the T-Mobile Center which is an NHL ready arena, they would also have a rivalry with St. Louis, but they barely support the Kansas City Mavericks (3,880) in the ECHL, Kansas City used to have an NHL team, but Kansas City is not really a hockey market Atlanta, Georgia - - Top 10 Population in US (11,029,227 people) - Bottom 10 Hockey Registration (2,078 hockey players) - that is worse than every province in Canada: Prince Edward Island (5,557 hockey players - 154,331 people) Georgia cannot do better than PEI, or Vermont... - that is worse than almost every state, even the smallest states...that's worse numbers than Maine (5,909 hockey players), Montana (5,581 hockey players), Vermont (4,289 hockey players), Wyoming (2,195 hockey players) - 0.02% hockey enrollment in 2020 - one-fiftieth of a percent (some of the worst numbers in North America) - Atlanta failed twice in the NHL - Atlanta has no arena - Atlanta has the record for most money lost by an NHL team - $130 million usd in losses between 2005 and 2010 - Atlanta barely supports the Atlanta Gladiators (4,241) in the ECHL - small cities support their hockey teams better than the 6 million people in Atlanta - Windsor (4,844) and Kelowna (4,305) average more people per games than Atlanta, so does Moncton (4,507) So does just to name a few more: Quebec Remparts - 9,726, London Knights - 9,035, Halifax Mooseheads - 8,329, North Dakota - 11,627, Wisconsin - 10,059, Portland - 4,509 - Milwaukee, Quebec City, or Portland are MUCH better options if you want to generate revenue with an NHL team. - 6 million people in Atlanta and they can't do better than Moncton or Kelowna or Windsor? - 11 million people in Georgia can only average 4,240 to games, that's bad, there's no fans in Georgia, that's why they failed TWICE (Atlanta Flames 1972-1980; and Atlanta Thrashers 1999-2010) - I can't name a city that is worse suited for NHL hockey other than Atlanta - Phoenix, Arizona would be a close runner up, but Atlanta takes the award for worst market in NHL history - #NEVAATL #NEVERATLANTA
@@gabetalks9275 Atlanta had NHL hockey for nearly 20 years (from 1972-1980; 1999-2010) Hockey registration in Georgia was 0% in 1970 Hockey registration in Georgia was 0.02% in 2020 - one-fiftieth of a percent 50 years but essentially zero growth - at that rate by 2070 enrollment would be 0.04% - still bottom 10 in the United States Georgia has less hockey players enrolled than every province in Canada, even the smallest provinces Georgia (2,078 hockey players - 11,029,227 people) Prince Edward Island (5,557 hockey players - 154,331 people) Newfoundland population (10,052 hockey players - 510,550 people) New Brunswick population (14,418 hockey players - 775,610 people) Nova Scotia (15,571 hockey players - 969,383 people) Georgia has less hockey players enrolled than all the smallest states in America Georgia (2,078 hockey players - 11,029,227 people) Alaska (8,130 hockey players - 733,391 people) North Dakota (7,310 hockey players - 779,179 people) South Dakota (3,056 hockey players - 909,824 people) Maine (5,909 hockey players - 1,362,359 people) Montana (5,581 hockey players - 1,122,867 people) Vermont (4,289 hockey players - 647,464 people) Wyoming (2,195 hockey players - 576,851 people) The smallest province PEI - 154,331 people - 3,900 hockey players per 100,000 people The smallest state Wyoming - 576,851 people - 380 hockey players per 100,000 people Georgia has 11,029,227 people, had the NHL for 20 years. - 20 hockey players per 100,000 people After 50 years there still has been no growth #NEVAATL #NEVERATLANTA
Portland OR seems to be a dark horse. They have an arena ready to go. With a deep hockey history and tradition. Betman loves anything and everything to do with the original 6. The Portland Rosebuds became the Chicago Blackhawks.
Every time i hear of the NHL expansion, I always dream of Little Rock, Arkansas getting a team. Simmons Bank Arena can hold 18,000 for hockey. Yes, I know it's never gonna happen.
Omaha would be a better fit as the home of Kansas City's minor league affiliate since they're so close to each other. Kansas City would pull from Omaha, so going to the far bigger market in KC makes way more sense.
why don't they just add the four most successful AHL cities? AHL cities can compete with attendance and revenue numbers. that way they could add a new team from the Southern Ontario region. teams that do poorly get pushed back to the AHL. that way cities can test out their viability for NHL membership at the AHL level.
They can't fill the smallest full-size arena in the league. I would say that is a problem. But I do agree with you, in that Phoenix is the biggest problem for the NHL currently.@@ElmerFudd16
Every time the conversation of NHL expansion comes up I throw out the same question: could Alaska even get in the conversation? While we do have a few places for the team to play, we would probably need to build an NHL/NBA quality arena. Anchorage and Fairbanks are the 2 largest cities and have the largest population to possibly fill the arena, depending on how good the team is. As for corporations, oil companies that are here would probably want to slap their logo all over the arena, maybe that weird @$$ airline with our name but is based in Seattle 😂 where we fall out of it would be no ownership group vying for a team, and while people here watch hockey, would they go to the games if the team was here? This is all hypothetical meanderings, we can barely keep the UAA hockey team afloat, so an NHL team is probably a no 😢
Houston here...We can take an underperforming team like Columbus or the Anaheim ducks and build up the team... AND...change the names and uniforms...Houston is big..look at the metro population...7.3 million, however, that's misleading a number because the draw would be from the suburbs as the Houston city population is primarily hispanic so you're drawing from the white population base of the metro suburbs of about 3 million...still quite a lot of fans.
No way the NHL gets to 36 teams anytime in the next decade. They only have three "new" markets where NHL hockey has a high probability of success: Salt Lake City, Houston, and (yes) Atlanta (I don't think Bettman wants a team in Quebec City). If the Coyotes relocate to SLC, they're down to two. Bettman wants existing cities to think there are lots of places for teams to relocate if they don't do the owner's bidding in keeping the arenas state-of-the-art or building new ones.
for the Atlanta arena locations, they are in ideal locations for hockey fans and young travel players! While the Falcons and Hawks have ideal arena/stadium locations for them in downtown, these new proposed will make Atlanta Thrive in the NHL without a doubt. The Atlanta Braves struggled with attendance in their last few years at Turner Field in downtown but when they moved to the northern suburbs (where most of the Braves fans are from), attendance improved significantly even prior to their World Series Championship run...Anson Carter's Ownership group and Vernon Krause's group (Head guy behind The Gathering Project) are planning to have their arena renderings in ideal places where like 80-90% of Thrashers fans lived at/still live in today and is basically in the center of where 3 18& U travel hockey teams play out of, The Cooler (in Alpharetta), The Ice (in Cumming, GA), and the Duluth Ice Form (in Duluth, GA / where the Thrashers used to practice at). the northern suburbs have grown significantly since the Thrashers left so if Atlanta can get a team and develop a good product on the ice (which they have the potential to with the expansion rules today), they will have fans 100%
@@seang13 Atlanta had NHL hockey for nearly 20 years (from 1972-1980; 1999-2010) Hockey registration in Georgia was 0% in 1970 Hockey registration in Georgia was 0.02% in 2020 - one-fiftieth of a percent 50 years but essentially zero growth - at that rate by 2070 enrollment would be 0.04% - still bottom 10 in the United States Georgia has less hockey players enrolled than every province in Canada, even the smallest provinces Georgia (2,078 hockey players - 11,029,227 people) Prince Edward Island (5,557 hockey players - 154,331 people) Newfoundland population (10,052 hockey players - 510,550 people) New Brunswick population (14,418 hockey players - 775,610 people) Nova Scotia (15,571 hockey players - 969,383 people) Georgia has less hockey players enrolled than all the smallest states in America Georgia (2,078 hockey players - 11,029,227 people) Alaska (8,130 hockey players - 733,391 people) North Dakota (7,310 hockey players - 779,179 people) South Dakota (3,056 hockey players - 909,824 people) Maine (5,909 hockey players - 1,362,359 people) Montana (5,581 hockey players - 1,122,867 people) Vermont (4,289 hockey players - 647,464 people) Wyoming (2,195 hockey players - 576,851 people) The smallest province PEI - 154,331 people - 3,900 hockey players per 100,000 people The smallest state Wyoming - 576,851 people - 380 hockey players per 100,000 people Georgia has 11,029,227 people, had the NHL for 20 years. - 20 hockey players per 100,000 people After 50 years there still has been no growth
@@sampicano I am curious where you get your numbers. DId you also know that Atlanta has one of the largest adult hockey leagues in the US with ~80 teams? (AAHL). The rinks that exist around Atlanta are ALWAYS booked. If there were more sheets, there'd be more players but AFAIK, there are no rinks on the East, West, or South side of the city. The sport is growing here, but it is a tough sell to get developers to build a new multimillion dollar rink in an area without a known client base but if the other rinks in the Metro Atlanta area are any indicator, new rinks around town would also do well.
@@bretts2356 " I am curious where you get your numbers." USAHOCKEY membership stats So when you say "largest adult hockey leagues in the US" And I know that Georgia is bottom 10 in hockey registration someone is lying...
@@bretts2356 " I am curious where you get your numbers." USAHockey membership stats So when you say "largest adult hockey leagues in the US" And I know that Georgia is bottom 10 in hockey registration someone is lying...lol Also the US Census for population data, the 2020 Census data is accessible on Wikipedia sources.
Pronounced "Fors(EYE)th"...If NHL expands they MUST reduce the schedule. Maybe that is a beneficial trade off in that they can do so without reducing revenues at the league level with more teams pulling in gate. (THG will have an aneurysm with 18 games a night though.) Interesting that none of these teams are in Canada. Sure, Winnipeg has problems, and Quebec has market issues, but a second Ontario team either in Hamilton or even the GTA is a no-brainer...Here's my category playoff ranking of the teams you put in the video: Prep/Commitment: Salt Lake, Kansas City TV Market Dynamics: Houston, Atlanta (not even close) Regional TV Draw: Houston (New Orleans, San Antonio, Austin, South Texas), Atlanta (Greenville, Charleston, Birmingham, Huntsville, Savannah), Salt Lake (Boise, Great Falls, LDS Worldwide * via streaming) Market Separation: Salt Lake, Houston, Atlanta Weak by Proximate Markets: Omaha (KC), Cincinnati (Columbus) Corporate Presence: Atlanta, Houston (not even close) Potential Rivalries: Houston (Dallas), Atlanta (Carolina, Nashville), Salt Lake (Denver, Seattle) Ownership: Salt Lake, Atlanta I omitted other, more subjective categories, and restricted it to the obvious ones. So by my count SLC shows 5 times, KCMO 1, HOU 5, ATL 5, OMA -1, CIN -1. However, unless they can demonstrably weight a potential streaming audience in for SLC, the two major markets HOU and ATL have got to be considered front runners. In the past, the NHL hasn't generally cared where the expansion money came from, they just cared that they got it, and left the several teams to figure out how to make it work. That was a mistake. The Coyotes' plight, and the twofer failures in both ATL and WPG are a testiment that this hands-off approach only creates more, bigger, and expensive problems down the road. In the end, I can't understate the DAL-HOU rivalry, which is almost a blood feud in the other sports to rival Dodgers-Giants, Yankees-Red Sox, Chiefs-Broncos, Eagles-Cowboys, etc., etc., etc. In fact the NFL has dropped the ball in not realigning the Cowboys and Texans to the same conference IMO...Going to 36 will probably have to incorporate other changes as well, such as the sharing of minor league teams, adjustments to RFA and UFA status, and such. It probably does dilute the talent pool, not so much at the top as it does down at the bottom. Prospects get most of their opportunities with cellar dweller teams, of which there will be more with a 36 team league. But I'm not sure that the ranks below will fill with exceptional talent behind them...
Absolutely not. I’d like it to go back to what it was and not reward losing. Wins should be 2 or 3 pts, vote on it, 1 pt for a tie after a regular season OT of 5 on 5 or a compromise of 4 on 4 for 5 - 10 mins. ABSOLUTELY ZERO for any type of loss. A supposed professional league should not be rewarding losing and creating a false sense of parity. Get rid of lame gimmicks that have infested Bettman’s NHL like 3 on 3 shinny and shoot outs. Serenity now!
@@notesandfragments it is unfortunate but most American fans loved the gimmick. I agree on 3 for a win 1 for any type of tie and zero for any type of loss. I think this would just be a good collab video with the hockey guy
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I have a background in hockey if you ever want...an opinion that isn't some shill for Arizona or Atlanta coughing nonsense into your ear
Just saying - not qualified to talk about baseball lol but if you want I can explain why Cincinnati is a nonstarter
@@sampicanoNot sure if Mr. Brazil will take you up on your offer, but I would be interested in the Cincinnati situation. I live in Pittsburgh and a big Pens fan. A Cinci team would be a natural rival for us. But I do agree with Mr. Brazil's assessment that an NHL expansion right now could do more harm that good. The possibility of one or more teams moving would also be something I would like to know about if you have any thoughts on that. As far as Atlanta is concerned, dead on arrival if that ever happens. Thanks.
@@jeffreywj7773 "Not sure if Mr. Brazil will take you up on your offer, but I would be interested in the Cincinnati situation."
I agree.
He took up someone on their Atlanta shilling just this week.
@@sampicano i mean... that person left a great detailed comment that i was able to easily respond to. you're absolutely welcome to do the same.
@@brodiebrazil I did my friend.
I provided a lot of information on your Atlanta, and Arizona NHL videos - and I left a detailed comment on this video
much love man, but that guy spreads disinformation about the Atlanta hockey market
IT IS A HELL OF A COINCIDENCE that since Atlanta announced they were building an arena, the amount of accounts spreading lies about Atlanta's hockey market grew too...
Weird right? Nobody comments from 2011 to 2022
Then the Gathering at Forsyth gets announced and then all the RUclips accounts pop up talking about how good of a market Atlanta was.
"It was managements fault"
"Atlanta is the fastest growing hockey market in the South"
"Atlanta had fans and good attendaces"
All of that is lies. Weird how the lies started ramping up after they decided to build an arena haha
disinformation campaign - A disinformation campaign is a targeted, organized information attack on a company, a party, an institution or an individual, whereby a large number of demonstrably false or misleading information (disinformation) is published, which serves the purpose of manipulation and is deliberately disseminated on a large scale.
Oh so that's a thing? Interesting.
Must be a coincidence that those RUclipsrs didn't say anything between 2011 and 2022.
Kansas City is more likely than Omaha. We used to have a team, after all. Plus the potential for an I-70 series in hockey would be fabulous.
Talking NHL expansion sans Quebec City is a crime. I'd also be curious as to what Milwaukee or Oregon has to offer.
you might be the only sane person in the entire comment section
- portland, milwaukee, quebec city, toronto-hamilton should be the FIRST and only spots for expansion
Milwaukee just doesn't have ownership, I live in the city and we just built the Bucks new arena a few years ago which hosts NCAA hockey. The former Admirals owners the Petit's in the early 90s were almost granted an expansion team (around time of Tampa) but in the end Lloyd thought it would be a money pit and pulled out (and Tampa was a money pit in the 90s, as in the team always lost money).
@@sampicanoNope. Nuh-huh. Wrong.
@@penguinsfan251 they have medications for what you have
Cry about it. Tiny city/market and the US dollar is superior
Brodie has become one of my favorite youtubers. Underrated af.
thanks very much!
If the NHL goes to 36 teams and the Nordiques aren't back I would have a conniption. A regular season game between them and Montreal would be more important to more people than the cumulative affect of all games the Squids have played, including a round one win. Omaha, Kansas City and Salt lake city!!! How many hockey fans are in these 3 cities combined? Compared to Quebec?!?
Prepare for a conniption.
Tiny market in comparison to even SLC. An ant compared to a market like Atlanta and Houston
Cry about it. Also the US dollar is more resourceful than the Canadian dollar. So get those tissues ready
SLC can fill a basketball arena regularly. They will fill a hockey arena too. Nothing else todo😅
As a long time NHL fan I am also in favor of Quebec City getting a team, whether it be through expansion or relocation. The Videotron Centre is phenomenal! OUTSTANDING venue! I hope the Nordiques are back because I agree that the provincial rivalry would return immediately. However, your statement about Kansas City not having any hockey fans is untrue. There is a core fandom in place in Kansas City (for all the sports, not just hockey) and from that there would IMO be adequate to excellent support. Obviously Quebecers would overwhelmingly welcome a NHL team and would support it because hockey is and always will be the #1 sport in Canada. But I'll defend Kansas City to the end here because I've seen the and been a part of the fan support here 1st hand and know that once the NHL team got a foothold as far as fandom is concerned, they'd be here forever.
There will be no team in Québec while Bettman lives!!! Also, has anyone noticed that the Habs haven't won the Cup since the Nordiques moved? And their last Cup? Remember 1993?? If Patrick hadn't stepped up in the locker and motivated their team to beat the Nords, they would NEVER have come out of the 1st round. Their motivation? LES NORDIQUES!!! The next Cup they win will be with a team packed with québécois, and in a league where there's a team 2.5 hours down the "20". So, Geoff? Are ya listening??? :^p
Hi Brodie. I enjoy your videos, thank you for taking the time to produce them.
As someone who is a native of Kansas City and used to attend Scouts games back in the 1970's I can accurately state that Kansas City NEVER got a fair chance to succeed in the NHL the way other teams did. By the time Kansas City got a team, all they had left for players were castoffs from other NHL teams and many of those weren't NHL caliber. The Scouts ownership group was quicky saddled with unexpected debt as the World Hockey Association teams (begun in 1972 and were in direct competition with the NHL for players) inflated the salary structure to where the Scouts owners couldn't compete on an even basis. Clarence Campbell was the NHL Commissioner at that time and his "sink-or-swim" attitude toward ALL NHL teams was one that didn't help the Scouts cause. Had Gary Bettman been Commissioner at that time he would've insisted that the NHL Scouts stay in place and would've worked to find acceptable ownership, in order for the team to remain in Kansas City. Also factoring into their demise was the economy of the 1970's, which as the decade drew on, many MANY businesses either had to sell or went out of business altogether. For the 2-seasons that the Scouts were in Kansas City, their crowds were slowly climbing. For example, the average crowd at a Scouts game for their Inaugural season of 1974-75 was around 7,350. In the 1975-76 season their crowds were up to 7.600-plus. Keep in mind, they were a last place team the entire time and they received zero help from the NHL financially, much-unlike the Arizona Coyotes who for the last 15 or so seasons have been subsidized by the NHL partners. In Kansas City, the arena is in place (T-Mobile Center, 17,500), the fan base is there (Chiefs games draw 76,000-plus, the Royals draw sellouts when they're winning) and (NO sports city can claim that their stadium sells out when their team is in last place, in ANY sport), and contrary to your report, Kansas City DOES have a fairly decent corporate base for sponsorship (see the list of sponsors for the Chiefs and Royals). Aside from that, the Hunt family.....IS interested in the NHL but isn't ready to shell out a billion dollars for a team. Kansas City would be the BEST fit of all the aforementioned cities for the NHL's Central Division and the sports fans of Kansas City WOULD come out to support NHL Hockey. The MSA Population of Kansas City is around 2.25 to 2.5 million people which is LARGER than 8 other NHL cities populations. In closing I'll simply state that the cities of Atlanta, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Denver, the Bay area (San Jose) and Winnipeg have ALL been given 2nd chances at the NHL, and now Atlanta is being considered for a 3rd time?!!! WHY NOT KANSAS CITY!!!!? Kansas City deserves a 2nd chance!!!!
You are using reason, facts and logic. NHL expansion discussions lack all of those.
@@penguinsfan251 I can NOT disagree with you in any way!
Atlanta should just have the most hockey teams in The Big Peach of metro Atlanta!🍑🍑🍑🍑🍑🍑🏒🏒🏒🏒🏒🏒🛣🛣🛣🛣🛣🛣
Some day, it would be interesting to hear about a possible expansion in Milwaukee. I know that there are logistics issues and it's a smaller market that has already been tap to a certain degree but i would like to hear what someone like Brodie thinks.
I'm not someone like Brodie, but I am a huge hockey fan that lives in Milwaukee (so I do know the market). Honestly, I do kind of laugh every time the NHL here is brought up. The Pettits pursued it back in the late 80s, but wisely moved on from it. The market is not large enough to support both the NBA and NHL. It's like Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Indianapolis... you get one or the other. It's not a growing metro area either. The new arena (Fiserv Forum) was built primarily for basketball. It has hosted college hockey tournaments and an NHL pre-season game, but the seating configuration would not be acceptable for the NHL. The Admirals play two blocks south at UWM Panther Arena, which would definitely not work for the NHL. Also, fan support for the Admirals could be much better, as they are averaging about 6000 this season, and are consistently near the middle of the AHL in attendance. While I can't speak for everyone, there are a lot of fans like myself that do not even want the NHL. We love what we have with the Admirals... that we can take a family to see a high level of pro hockey without taking out a loan to do so. I just think there are much better markets for the NHL.
@@admirals818 " It's like Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Indianapolis... you get one or the other"
Pittsburgh - Pirates, Penguins, Steelers....okay 3 teams
Indianapolis - Pacers, Colts...okay....2 teams
St. Louis - Blues, Cardinals...2 teams
So it isn't one or the other. Turns out you can have multiple sports per city.
I guess you meant, either basketball OR hockey.
I don't know why that would be a choice - either BASEBALL or FOOTBALL not both - what a stupid thought
What is more popular in Wisconsin, basketball or hockey? It's DAMN CLOSE....
Wisconsin NCAA hockey - averages 10,059 per game...how do they find the time since they are busy supporting the Bucks????
I always thought Milwaukee was a GREAT HOCKEY CITY....are you telling me Milwaukee is the only city in the US with 1,574,731 people that can't support a hockey team???
That's mind blowing. There are cities in the South with 1.5 million that support their teams - is Milwaukee just a garbage hockey town?
See my post... I don't want MKE to have a pro team. I feeeeeeeeel like MKE doesn't have enough spare cash between Packers, Bucks, and Brewers to bankroll another winter team. The Admirals are an amazing bang for the buck when it comes to tickets. I can bring my family of 5 and watch a game with food for like $200 all up. If it were an NHL team, that'd be like 2 or 3 tickets?
@@seang13 Well, Milwaukee does have a pro team - the Admirals. I do want them. But yeah, the 20+ Admirals games my daughter and I go to every season would equal very few NHL games. I don't think we have to worry about it, fortunately.
@@seang13 "If it were an NHL team, that'd be like 2 or 3 tickets?"
Yeah probably, it would also be an NHL team competing for the Stanley Cup against the Chicago Blackhawks and Minnesota Wild...
It would be something you could WATCH AT HOME and hurry home from work and listen to on the radio during the playoffs...
It's SO MUCH better than an AHL team...
Gretna, NE (where you mentioned the outlet mall) is a growing community along with the surrounding areas. Not sure if hockey would work here. Yeah, we have a few small hockey teams in Omaha, Lincoln and Kearney. But, we have a tremendous volleyball team with the Supernovas.
I would love an Omaha/Gretna based team. I grew up in Lincoln, but have since moved to western NE. Also, don't forget about Sioux City in the USHL. That's really not far away from Omaha. To be fair, the Stars, Lancers, Storm, and Musketeers don't like each much, but I think we could all come together for an NHL team. We also have the UNO Mavericks, and I heard something about a UNL hockey team moving up. Hopefully a Big10 level team. Nebraska is a great emerging hockey market. I hate to say emerging, because it's been here for a long time, but in the NHLs eyes it's emerging.
Cheers Brodie, I love your content and watch every video you post. I even tune into Sharks broadcasts just to listen to you (and now Jason Demers), lol.
I wanted to touch on Kansas City and its potential for an NHL team. Although it seems like a mixed bag of potential and unlikelihood, we are a city that lives and dies by our sports.
We don’t have much in terms of tourist attractions or historical landmarks, but we have successful college and professional sports teams and a dedicated fanbase that is fiercely loyal.
So, I truly believe that the absence of relative competition for professional hockey in this market-trust me, we aren’t interested in the Blues here, just as we aren’t interested in the Cardinals nor were we interested in the Rams when they were based in STL-presents an opportunity.
What sets us apart in Kansas City, compared to places like SLC and ATL, is Patrick Mahomes and the Kelce Family. Travis and Jason grew up playing hockey and have expressed their love for the sport fervently. Additionally, Taylor Swift has been attending Preds games in Nashville for years!
I genuinely believe that a management/ownership team consisting of Mahomes, Kelce, & Swift could not only succeed but also elevate the NHL beyond the success of the MLB & NBA.
And let me tell you, the KC population would support an NHL franchise-whether it be in expansion or relocation-without even an ounce of doubt!
thanks for being here! and for sharing KC perspective
I've been surprised with Cincinnati for expansion talks. I am in southern ohio, east of Cincy a couple hours and you're also competing with Penguins fans. For alot of us that was the main team up until the Blue Jackets came in and alot of people including myself remained Penguins fans. When we go to games in Columbus about 30% of the crowd are Penguins fans. I am also curios about folks in Kentucky as i would guess you would be stepping into Predators fans territory. So add those 2 teams to the list with Col, Det & Chicago. I would be more interested in an NBA team in Cincinnati as the closest teams now are Cleveland and Indy both a little over 4 hours away. Right now we don't have the ability to go on a one day trip to an NBA game as we do with the NHL, MLB and NFL.
Cincinnati is a metro area similar in population and in corporate HQs to Pittsburgh and there is no wintertime team.
The NBA is in Indianapolis, not far away. The NHL would work in Cincy with a new arena.
As usual, a great video, Brodie. If I might, here’s some Canadian context to NHL expansion. There are two markets here that would take in teams tomorrow, if they could. Quebec City has been lobbying to get their team back. Their challenge is corporate support and potential blacking by Montreal. And Toronto wants a 2nd team. And they support one, not just with fans but corporate support. It would be a question of the Leafs seeing sense in the idea.
All that to say that if - and as you say, a big IF - the NHL expands to 36, there would be revolt/consternation here if at least one of those expansion teams didn’t come here. However, hockey is dwindling in popularity here. The market is monopolized and saturated to the point that people feel less and less connected to the teams. Couple that with a Stanley Cup drought of 30 years, as well as players not wanting to play in Canada, and it’s a hard sell. The NHL knows this and likely would look to places Cincinnati or Omaha to fill the gaps left by Canadian interest.
Cheers!
Great points - kinda fumbled over the finish line...
Cincinnati and Omaha have close to zero chances.
They don't even have AHL teams - that's how FAR AWAY from the NHL they are.
Not good ECHL teams, no where near the AHL....let alone being a JUGGERNAUT in the "A"
Cincinnati isn't even the best spot in Ohio hahahaha
More sammy drivel.
Forget Quebec. Not happening, not ever again. Not after the Ottawa bankruptcy and the Winnipeg troubles.
Small Canadian matket with the cheaper Canadian dollar.
Brodie, it will be more than 100 players because you have to build out AHL and other minor league teams of which many of those players count against the cap in Hockey.
Idea: If you had 36 teams, you could have a 20 team playoff format:
12 teams qualify for playoffs, and 8 teams qualify for brief best-of-3 play-in series to decide the final 4 spots. Quick bo3 series would avoid long waits for the 12 qualified teams, and would be very urgent from game 1.
Just an idea! This would help deal with the issue of franchises suffering from not qualifying for the playoffs for many years running like what happened to the Thrashers…
For all the people saying Quebec should get a team, you need to think like a business owner and not a fan. The NHL is trying to grow the game. Getting NEW fans, consumers, even players. While people think Bettman hung onto Arizona too long, there have been several top players come through that area the last few years because of the Coyotes being there. Going to Atlanta, Houston, KC makes sense from a business and growth standpoint. People in Quebec already play hockey, watch hockey, and have teams they support and buy merchandise for. Putting a team in Quebec doesn't ADD anything to the league in any way. Going to markets that could expand the player pool down the road, add new consumers, etc. is the thinking the league has, and should. Also, as a former season ticket holder for the Atlanta Thrashers, hockey will 100% work there with even decent ownership. The location in the northern suburbs will also be huge. Most of the hockey fans live in the northern suburbs and work in Atlanta. When the team played in downtown, it was difficult for people to get off work, go home, pick up the wife and/or kids, then trek back downtown to go to a hockey game.
Why not just go for it? Expand to 40. Add: Atlanta, Hamilton, Houston, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Portland, Quebec City, and Salt Lake City.
It's going to be SLC.
Arizona is relocating 99%
Ryan SMith (billionaire owner of Utah Jazz) has expressed interest
Delta Center is NHL ready - but needs some renovations
SLC is in the Central division
It's basically a foregone conclusion
No, it isn't.
Time will tell, and I can't wait to be right and for you to be miserably wrong. @penguinsfan251
Yes, probably, assuming they don't get the Coyotes
And? Expansion is going to 36 at least
I'm in Omaha, and I don't know if the city is the right place for an NHL team. There is a very loyal and passionate hockey community here that was excited about the idea of a team, but I question whether it is big or strong enough to make a jump from NCAA/USHL to NHL ticket prices, so I have concerns whether or not enough people that care to sustain season tickets sales (the USHL team isn't close to selling out every game in an arena smaller than what the Coyotes are playing in). Another issue with Omaha is that there isn't a lot of suburban sprawl, outside the immediate Omaha metro and Lincoln, it is virtually empty between here and the other markets (Minnesota/St. Louis ~7 hours away, Colorado/Chicago ~8 hours away). Des Moines and Kansas City are too far away to depend on enough dedicated fans (2.5 hours each).
Keep in mind the NHL ran with 21 teams for qute a few years. Perhaps even numbers and balance aren't big issues for the NHL.
The Ziegler years are a bad memory.
I would like to see 40 nhl teams I would love to see Hartford, Baltimore, Quebec City, San Francisco, Cincinnati, San Diego in NHl I would love to see 100 games in Regular Season
Baltimore? That is Caps country. Hartford would be playing second and third fiddle to Boston and NY. Quebec City is on Bettman's do not resuscitate list. San Francisco is in the same market as the San Jose Sharks. Ohio doesn't need another team. San Diego is the only city you mentioned that makes sense imo.
It's pronounced for-SYTH...and it's 30 miles, not 45 from downtown. It's also centrally located to the suburbs of Roswell, Sandy Springs, Johns Creek, Alpharetta and Milton...the areas where the hockey fans are. After Bettman allowed the second worst ownership group ever to buy the Thrashers (after the Isles and Spano) and immediately put them on the market, we should get a legit shot and having a team with committed ownership. But so does Quebec. I see the league adding SLC, Houston, Atlanta and Quebec.
100% False. ASG was clearly the worst ownership group in Pro sports history. (I totally agree with the rest and the 4 cities listed)
As far as I know Frozen Fury is only one game between two teams during the preseason here in Utah
Great Video..My personal favorites are Utah, Nebraska, and Kansas City….with that said I would like to see some talk about Sioux Falls South Dakota, it’s a growing place with a strong hockey culture. Sioux Falls would be a great place
I like the input you gave, makes a lot of sense. I appreciate and understand your point about Cincinnati with the drawbacks being so close to cities like Columbus. I am a Blue Jackets fan, however I will say I have a different take FOR Cincinnati to have a NHL team for two reasons:
1. Cincinnati had a great following when they had the Stingers in the WHA, but the city and fans were robbed when they weren’t allowed to join the consultation of the NHL and WHA
2. With MLS teams in Columbus and Cincinnati, it has created an exciting rivalry between the Crew and FC Cincinnati. If I remember right they have called the rivalry “Highway to Hell”. So I can perceive the possibly of another enjoyable rivalry occurring here.
These are just my thoughts I know, but I the positive possibilities here.
Wishing you all the best today, take care!
"Winnepeg" Tied for first in the central and difficulty filling an arena under 16,000.
Cincy would do well, with the right backing. Look what happened to soccer here. They've been crushing attendance records since they were a team! And The Cincinnati Cyclones do well here.
San Diego wants an NHL expansion team too
Honestly, it would be better if the Ducks just moved there. Blow up the Battle of LA to the Battle of SoCal. The Ducks already have their farm team there too, so they already have a fanbase down there. And it's not like Orange County is THAT far away from San Diego. LA and San Diego are relatively close to each other, so it wouldn't be like the Dodgers moving from Brooklyn to LA.
Ancient arena in a non-traditional market. Dangerous choice.
@@leper73 they’re going to build a fresh new arena and should be done by 2028
@@leper73San Diego, no pro wintertime team, a market of over 3 million...yeah, dumb, real dumb. Put a team in Halifax instead
@@gabetalks9275San Diego Ducks does kinda roll off the tongue well lol
Omaha is more event-based, and they do it well … College World Series, NCAA Tournament almost every year. Similar to Winnipeg, they could probably support a team, but there aren’t really outskirts to draw from … KC is 3 hours away. I used to live in Downtown Omaha, walking distance from the arena (which is nice and modern, etc.) but I am skeptical. They don’t even currently have minor league hockey.
There are actually two ownership groups. One location is The Gathering and the other is Carter's group at North Point Mall.
I think San Diego has a good shot. Even tho it seems too close to LA, keep in mind it’s more distant than many east coast teams are to each other, especially the Philly, DC, NY, NJ, Long Island, and Boston area. They also lack a big 4 sports team besides the padres and the San Diego gulls has some success in the city, a massive population too 9th biggest in the USA or something?
1. Salt Lake City 2. Houston 3. QUEBEC 4. Kansas City 5. Atlanta 6. Cincinnati 7. Omaha. Portland (OR) should probably be on this list as well and be ahead of at least 2 or 3 of these cities.
Milwaukee? Or is hockey not a thing there? Market considered too small? No willing billionaire available? It would seem a natural fit, you have a team in Minnesota, a team in Michigan, a natural rivalry, cold weather state also. Wisconsin residents watching, do you want the NHL?
I thought the NHL chose Columbus to eliminate the problem of choosing between Cleveland and Cincinnati...
hawks claim milwaukee as their market and would fight it.
Agree. Columbus is right in the middle of the state and can draw from both the south (Cincy area) and the north (Cleveland area). Plus, the NHL wouldn't survive in Cincy or Cleveland IMO.
Honestly, it would be better if the Blue Jackets just moved from Columbus to Cincinnati. The Cincinnati market is way bigger than Columbus, and its metro area crosses over into Kentucky and Indiana. It would broaden their reach dramatically, connecting with three states for the price of one similar to how the Reds pull from all three states. They also change their branding to the old WHA Stingers while they're at it. Bringing that old hockey heritage would make them an even more attractive team to cheer for. Especially since Messier played for the Stingers before the WHA/NHL merger.
If you read between the lines of the Gary Bettman interview during all-star weekend, it seemed evident that time is almost up for the Coyotes to secure a new arena site and financing, and his #1 relocation target is Salt Lake City. Makes sense because SLC only has the NBA so far, so the NHL could get in before MLB (heavy favorite as one of the two expansion franchises IMO) or the NFL (highly unlikely anytime in the near future) to establish a fan base.
SLC is too small for both the NHL and NBA. Put the Yotes in and find out.
@@penguinsfan251 Right - that explains why the Jazz have been in Utah since 1979.
I’d love to see the NHL in SLC, but despite being a winter sports center (2002 Winter Olympics, for example), I don’t know if there’s much of a hockey culture there. I think there’s only a couple of kids in the NHL that grew up in Utah. I went to the gold medal hockey game at the Olympics, and it was in a tiny arena (like 7000 seats), and most of the fans were Canadians. Maybe it would work, but I’m not sure.
The Cincinnati Stingers and Houston Aeros should have been part of the WHA merger in the 70’s. Cincinnati’s arena is pretty old and Houston is not a hockey city so unless they’re successful out of the gate like the Golden Knights, it could be a struggle. Milwaukee and a return to Hartford make more sense than any of the others listed here (Omaha?).
No Canadian cities? Quebec and Hamilton deserve it way more than most of these.
It would be so cool if Albuquerque could get an NHL expansion team.
My opinion is wait a few more years (7-10ish years) and expand to 36 (SLC, ATL, QC, HOU) over a two year period.
Quebec City and Hartford deserves a team before Atlanta
I know I’ve said this before, but I’ll say it again: The NHL does not need more than 32 teams. BUT…all things being equal, I think Salt Lake City, Kansas City, Atlanta & Houston all have excellent cases for acquiring teams via relocation. It’ll be interesting to see who wins the NHL franchise sweepstakes.
As an older fan, I already have like zero interest in seeing Carolina, Columbus, Nashville, heck even Tampa or Florida, etc… Contraction might be better.
Albeuquerque, Atlanta, Cincinnati, Houston, MilWaukee, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oregon, Quebec City, San Diego, South Dakota, Utah
Hartford Whalers anyone ?
Solid video... I think it comes down to SLC being a "rising" city. Their plan seems interesting and they have the "snow factor". I can't give ATL a third chance with a team not located downtown, especially when you see how far away Forsyth is from the city. That's a recipe for mediocre attendance. And tbh, I'd just move the Coyotes to one of the 6 cities and be done with it. If you can't straigthen out arena issues over a decade, you can't do it.
Most of the cities you listed seem like great places to put an AHL team. I'm looking at you Omaha, Cincy, and KC. Ironically, maybe Phoenix just needs and AHL team...
I love watching the NHL games, I love attending AHL games. I'd be intrigued to see if the AHL was expanding. Maybe do a video on that topic. I say this as a MKE resident.
I think any discussion on the NHL expanding to 36 or 40 teams that doesn't contain a Canadian city - whether Saskatoon, Regina, Quebec City, or Halifax - is misguided at best. Personally, I think Arizona sells and relocates to Salt Lake City within the next year. And I think realistically your expansion for the NHL is Houston, Atlanta, Quebec City, and Kansas City. Two east, two west. Swap KC for Salt Lake if the Yotes somehow get their act together and find a permanent home in Phoenix.
Do I think the NHL Expands again? Yes. There are players floundering in the AHL because of rosters being jammed up that are not able to play at the highest level despite being ready. There's at least 100 players that could fill out rosters for four expansion clubs.
Anyone else also go "here's Brodie Brazil" out loud when the video starts?
Always.
I love how Brodie keeps everything simple, succinct and to the point when he talks about sports while also presenting himself as a warm and friendly guy. The kind of guy you can talk about sports with for hours on end without getting bored.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 i did not know that was a thing
@@MetalGod999 very kind of you, thanks!
Who has a collection of all the modern era jerseys of NHL teams that have either folded or relocated: California Golden Seals (Oakland), Kansas City Scouts, Cleveland Barons, Atlanta Flames, Colorado Rockies, Minnesota North Stars, Quebec Nordiques, Winnipeg Jets (old jerseys), Hartford Whalers, Atlanta Thrashers? I think the Seals jersey would be the coolest.
Throwing Indianapolis out there.
#25 TV market
#34 Metropolitan area with over 2.1 million
Has a ready arena to share with the Pacers.
Has a strong hockey history and loyal fans to our teams.
Only down side for indy is proximity to Chicago, St. Louis, Columbus, Nashville, Detroit. But, if NYC can have 3 teams in that TV market, Indy can thrive with NHL Hockey.
if it comes down to Indianapolis or Milwaukee, I'm voting Wisconsin ten times out of ten
Indy would be cool, but Wisconsin is synonymous with hockey
No. Indy is not a metro area of over 3 million and Indy has an NBA team.
Eastern Conference:
Atlanta (Metro)
Quebec City or Halifax (Atlantic)
Western Conference:
Salt Lake City (Pacific)
Houston (Central)
1) I agree with Bruiser Brodie: Stay at 32 teams. 2) If the Coyotes can't finalize a deal for a new arena and full financing by the summer, Bettman should push for relocation to SLC. 3) Keep Houston and Atlanta (in that order) in the league's back pocket in case one or more existing NHL cities are no longer seen as viable. A strong 32 team league is optimal IMO.
Keep your speech, you obviously underestimate Omaha. The corporate group that went to the NHL office to meet with the commissioner laid out a plan that includes the entire area (not just the 74th in the city of Omaha alone), with several multi-million dollar corporations joining an entire entertainment district that includes organizations such as Team USA Volleyball getting a significant upgrade to their operation if they sign on. That's just what I could find with a twelve second google search. We may not get an NHL team, but we will get someone in some sport soon enough. We run the damn CWS yearly- we know how to treat major events. More than I can say for half or better of the current franchise cities.
Seriously "I don't mean any disrespect" is basically just saying you want to save face when you know you are being disrespectful.
i dont mean any disrespect = whether you're suited for an NHL team or not, has no correlation to being a GOOD place or not
Chill out Karen. He was completely respectful.
One positive point about NHL expansion to 36 that I feel doesn’t get brought up enough is that the NHL is in a unique position amongst the professional leagues given that it has less exposure to the US market than the others, and therefore theoretically can handle more expansion at this time, specifically in the US.
It has a disproportionately lower amount of US teams (25 US, 7 CA) as a portion of its total league size compared to MLS, NBA, MLB, and NFL. Therefore the thought is that because the NFL/NBA/MLB can support 30-32 teams and/or markets in the US, then the NHL should have no problem doing so either. All expansion candidates to 36 that the NHL will genuinely consider will probably be American because of this.
It stings a bit seeing Quebec City being left out of the discussion but I am accepting that it probably won’t happen in the current environment. Canada as a whole has been mostly stagnant in terms of disposable incomes over the better part of the last decade whereas wealth and incomes in the US are growing. For the time being it is probably best to focus on fortifying the business models of the existing Canadian teams (mainly Winnipeg with its hiccups this year, all of the others are consistently doing well enough financially) instead of adding new ones.
About Salt Lake City I was there for a month for army stuff. Went to a few ECHL Utah grizzly games. Those fans love hockey it was refreshing (I live in San Jose) seeing another fan base actually care.
About Cincinnati. Tv market doesn’t mean anything. The Bay Area is a huge market for sports but the sharks and A’s rarely reach numbers like the warriors or niners do. Raiders barely got any viewership as well. So market shouldn’t matter. It should matter solely on fan base wanting it. San Jose has how big of a population? Plus add Mountain View, Santa Clara, Morgan hill, Fremont and Palo Alto being so close to San Jose and what are their attendance numbers? I love going to sharks games but today a losing team to back when the sharks were a great winning team they haven’t always filled out the tank on a prime Friday or Saturday night. So population and market size doesn’t matter. Quebec would love an NHL team again. They’re a huge fan base but smaller city and area. No doubt Quebec would sell out their games all the time just like Montreal does with their games
I am from Omaha, no offense taken. While we have the CHI Health Center in downtown Omaha, you were referring to Gretna Crossing, which is about halfway between Omaha and Lincoln. We have the Omaha Lancers of the USHL and also the University of Omaha has a division 1 hockey program.
Anson Carter's bid for an NHL franchise in metro Atlanta is a separate endeavor from The Gathering at South Forsyth; coincidentally, both proposals are in or near Alpharetta off of Georgia Route 400. Carter's group plans to redevelop the site of a struggling mall, while The Gathering is planned for an undeveloped tract near the Forsyth County-Fulton County line.
KC, Houston, Atlanta, SLC are the top 4
Anyone saying Quebec City is not smart enough to understand
1. Market size
2. The US dollar is vastly more desired than the Canadian dollar
“But it’s Canada!” Yeah sure, a tiny country and tiny city
Houston is #2 city with most Fortune 500 companies after New York. So corporate support is huge. Houston is a transplant city with a large number of US northerners and Canadiens (because of oil). So I think hockey would do very well. The second iterarion of the Aeros failed because Houston wanted an NHL team no minor league. I grew up in NYC and lived in Houston for over 20 years and it has grown tremendously.
Actually the Aeros left because they got priced out of rent at Toyota Center. The Rockets owner at the time didn't want them at Toyota no more since he and the Aeros' owner had beef that cost them an expansion team in the 90's.
how many Canadians in Houston?
and how many Canadians - patriotic CANADIANS FROM CANADA - cheer for Houston based teams hahahahahaha
HAHAHAHAHA
"Canadians will support the team in Houston"
"Plus oil money"
HAHAHAHAHAHA
36 teams = 6 divisions * 6 teams
Top 2 teams in each division plus 4 wild cards in each conference. Add a 5 game series wild card round.
1. Quebec City (rival Montreal)
2. Houston (rival Dallas)
3. Salt Lake (rival Vegas / Colorado)
4. Atlanta (rival Carolina)
5. Kansas City (rival St Louis)
Can’t wait for this one!
NHL and MLB probably already have four too many teams.
@@christiandoll4435 thank you!
I’m curious about an NHL Team in New Orleans. the city has a rich sporting culture and is known for its passionate fans, which could translate to a successful hockey market and Having a city has a modern multi-purpose arena, the Smoothie King Center, which could host an NHL team. Thoughts on it?
32 teams is more than enough for any sport, if teams can't draw or have bad owners or stadium issues/problems, then these cities would be good for relocation. Hockey is a cold weather sport for cold weather cities imo. Places like Quebec, Ontario & Halifax would be great options for the NHL, but since it comes to money I don't see it happening anytime soon. Instead they put hockey in places like Anaheim & Columbus, where they could be in Cleveland, Milwaukee or any other Canadien city.
I’m from Columbus and I would love to see Cincy get a nhl team cuz of the rivalry with the blue jackets. Kind of like the hell is real rivalry between the Columbus crew n fc Cincinnati in the MLS
It only dilutes the player pool temporarily, I think its a good thing long term. Just remember without the Yotes, there probably wouldn't be a Matthews.
NHL expansion wish list (with division placement):
Salt Lake City (Pacific)
Kansas City (Central)
Atlanta (Metropolitan)
Québec (Atlantic)
In this scenario, Arizona would move to the Pacific and Salt Lake would play in the Central to create a SLC-Denver rivalry. Arizona fits much more naturally against SoCal and PNW teams.
FYI:
Kansas City: Lamar Hunt Jr., from the Hunt family, owns the ECHL Kansas City Mavericks (a Seattle Kraken affiliate). Their home games are in Independence, MO, 23 miles east of KC.
A second NHL team in Ohio: I don't think Cincinnati would be a good idea unless a new arena was built across the Ohio River into Kentucky. The Newport/Covington area has been built into a decent entertainment area. (In my opinion, I don't see that happening.) Also, it would make no sense to have a second NHL team in Ohio, considering Columbus is the largest city in Ohio in population (est. over 892,000) over Cincinnati (302,600), and Cleveland (383,000) despite the Monsters (AHL) recent success.
I’m strongly opposed to expansion , 32 is enough. Maybe not at the moment but in the future merging franchises (not folding or contraction but merge struggling franchises into 1 like they did with the Minnesota north stars & Cleveland Barons back in 1978.)
It is disgusting that Atlanta has a higher chance than Quebec City.
No it isn't. Atlanta makes more sense if you want to grow the sport.
Kansas City had an NHL team before. The Kansas City Scouts. These days, they're known as the NJ Devils. The Coyotes have such a bad building, it would be great if they could end up in KC or SLC... Just because I hadn't realized it before, KC seems the most novel to me.
There is no way Omaha is getting a hockey team. There aren't enough people in Nebraska to fill an arena....
I would love for Portland Oregon to have a team
I'd like to see a Milwaukee team.
Atlanta, a metro approaching 7 million people without a NHL team. It's about time. Expand from 32 to 36. Atlanta, Houston, Salt Lake City, and Kansas City.
Can we still play 82 games with 36 or 40 teams? The bad teams will have only AHL level players
Teams might not be able to play every other team home-and-away each season, but it would be possible.
There are a lot of countries playing hockey, but they need more Americans playing hockey. Let's hope they keep it in the US
Add Atlanta, Houston, Salt Lake City, and Quebec
If Salt Lake City gets an nhl and mlb, make sure they get the chargers too.
No, I don’t want to see expansion. And for all the talk about dilution of talent, I wonder how people feel about diluting of officiating. I’m not one to complain about officials in general, and this wouldn’t be as dramatic as when the league went from one ref to two per game. But if I’m counting correctly, the NHL currently has 44 refs and 40 linesmen. At that pace, four more teams probably means 5-6 more refs and 5 more linesmen. It’ll take a lot for the NHL to convince fans that they will maintain or improve consistency.
As for Kansas City, they were courting the Islanders for awhile, when the future of Nassau Coliseum was in question and before the move to Brooklyn. The Isles even played a couple of preseason games in KC. I’m not sure if it generated enough interest.
1) Portland, Oregon - lots of hockey fans, good support for WHL, Portland Rosebuds played for the Stanley Cup, Portland has had hockey for over 100 years, natural rivalry with Seattle. they have MODA Center ready
2) Milwaukee, Wisconsin - second no brainer, tons of fans, Wisconsin is one of the best attended teams in NCAA hockey, natural rivals with Minneapolis and Chicago, plus they have the Fiserv Forum ready
3) Toronto-Hamilton - Toronto is the largest hockey market on Earth, Hamilton is the 9th largest city in Canada, if NY and LA have two NHL teams (and probably shouldn't) Toronto DEIFNITELY should have two teams, FirstOntario Centre in Hamilton is NHL ready and is currently undergoing renovations
4) Quebec City, Quebec - Quebec is the largest city in Canada (7th largest overall) that still does not have an NHL team, Quebec City (839,311) is larger than Winnipeg (834,678) for comparison, Quebec Remparts are one of the best attended teams outside the NHL, Quebec City would have an epic rivalry with Montreal, Quebec City has an NHL ready arena with the Vidéotron Centre
5) Houston, Texas - the largest US market without an NHL team, they had the Houston Aeros in the WHA, and again in the AHL from 2003 to 2013, no hockey teams currently and not much thirst for hockey in Houston in general, but it is a large market (7.1 million) and Tilman Fertita (billionaire owner of the Houston Rockets has expressed interest in owning an NHL team), they would have a rivalry with Dallas, and have the Toyota Center (which needs renovations)
6) Salt Lake City, Utah - the smallest US market in the NHL is Buffalo with (1,125,637 people) and Salt Lake City is only slightly larger (1,257,936), Salt Lake City has a billionaire owner Ryan Smith who has been very vocal about acquiring an NHL team, Salt Lake City has the Delta Center which needs to undergo renovations, but in 2030 or 2034 Salt Lake City is getting the Winter Olympics, and therefore is getting billions of dollars to build infrastructure, despite Utah not being a good hockey market (Utah Grizzlies only average 5,868 per game - and hockey registration in 2020 was only 3,861 - 0.12% of the population are enrolled to play hockey....a tenth of a percent), they are probably frontrunners for the Arizona Coyotes relocation, and Salt Lake City would geographically be in the Central Division
San Diego - lack of big four teams (only Padres), this would be a great relocation spot for the Anaheim Ducks who struggle to remain relevant in LA and struggle to genrate revenue, San Diego Gulls have great attendances in the AHL, but California is too oversaturated with hockey
Cleveland - this would be a great relocation spot for the Columbus Blue Jackets, Cleveland is the most diehard hockey city in Ohio, Cleveland used to have an NHL team, they also have an NHL ready arena with Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse, however Ohio does not need two NHL teams
Kansas City - Kansas City has the T-Mobile Center which is an NHL ready arena, they would also have a rivalry with St. Louis, but they barely support the Kansas City Mavericks (3,880) in the ECHL, Kansas City used to have an NHL team, but Kansas City is not really a hockey market
Atlanta, Georgia -
- Top 10 Population in US (11,029,227 people)
- Bottom 10 Hockey Registration (2,078 hockey players)
- that is worse than every province in Canada: Prince Edward Island (5,557 hockey players - 154,331 people) Georgia cannot do better than PEI, or Vermont...
- that is worse than almost every state, even the smallest states...that's worse numbers than Maine (5,909 hockey players), Montana (5,581 hockey players), Vermont (4,289 hockey players), Wyoming (2,195 hockey players)
- 0.02% hockey enrollment in 2020 - one-fiftieth of a percent (some of the worst numbers in North America)
- Atlanta failed twice in the NHL
- Atlanta has no arena
- Atlanta has the record for most money lost by an NHL team - $130 million usd in losses between 2005 and 2010
- Atlanta barely supports the Atlanta Gladiators (4,241) in the ECHL
- small cities support their hockey teams better than the 6 million people in Atlanta
- Windsor (4,844) and Kelowna (4,305) average more people per games than Atlanta, so does Moncton (4,507)
So does just to name a few more:
Quebec Remparts - 9,726, London Knights - 9,035, Halifax Mooseheads - 8,329, North Dakota - 11,627,
Wisconsin - 10,059, Portland - 4,509
- Milwaukee, Quebec City, or Portland are MUCH better options if you want to generate revenue with an NHL team.
- 6 million people in Atlanta and they can't do better than Moncton or Kelowna or Windsor?
- 11 million people in Georgia can only average 4,240 to games, that's bad, there's no fans in Georgia, that's why they failed TWICE (Atlanta Flames 1972-1980; and Atlanta Thrashers 1999-2010)
- I can't name a city that is worse suited for NHL hockey other than Atlanta
- Phoenix, Arizona would be a close runner up, but Atlanta takes the award for worst market in NHL history
- #NEVAATL #NEVERATLANTA
I see Atlanta still lives rent free in your head.
Sam, you need counseling.
@@penguinsfan251 why is that?
@@sampicano Because you're still obsessed with Atlanta, even weeks after Brodie first covered the city. Let it go already.
@@gabetalks9275
Atlanta had NHL hockey for nearly 20 years (from 1972-1980; 1999-2010)
Hockey registration in Georgia was 0% in 1970
Hockey registration in Georgia was 0.02% in 2020 - one-fiftieth of a percent
50 years but essentially zero growth - at that rate by 2070 enrollment would be 0.04% - still bottom 10 in the United States
Georgia has less hockey players enrolled than every province in Canada, even the smallest provinces
Georgia (2,078 hockey players - 11,029,227 people)
Prince Edward Island (5,557 hockey players - 154,331 people)
Newfoundland population (10,052 hockey players - 510,550 people)
New Brunswick population (14,418 hockey players - 775,610 people)
Nova Scotia (15,571 hockey players - 969,383 people)
Georgia has less hockey players enrolled than all the smallest states in America
Georgia (2,078 hockey players - 11,029,227 people)
Alaska (8,130 hockey players - 733,391 people)
North Dakota (7,310 hockey players - 779,179 people)
South Dakota (3,056 hockey players - 909,824 people)
Maine (5,909 hockey players - 1,362,359 people)
Montana (5,581 hockey players - 1,122,867 people)
Vermont (4,289 hockey players - 647,464 people)
Wyoming (2,195 hockey players - 576,851 people)
The smallest province PEI - 154,331 people
- 3,900 hockey players per 100,000 people
The smallest state Wyoming - 576,851 people
- 380 hockey players per 100,000 people
Georgia has 11,029,227 people, had the NHL for 20 years.
- 20 hockey players per 100,000 people
After 50 years there still has been no growth
#NEVAATL
#NEVERATLANTA
Houston to me makes the most sense. Huge city, corporate companies and a lot of money
Portland OR seems to be a dark horse. They have an arena ready to go. With a deep hockey history and tradition. Betman loves anything and everything to do with the original 6. The Portland Rosebuds became the Chicago Blackhawks.
Salt Lake City Highlanders, Cincinnati Barons, Houston Apollos, Kansas City Cougars.
Every time i hear of the NHL expansion, I always dream of Little Rock, Arkansas getting a team. Simmons Bank Arena can hold 18,000 for hockey. Yes, I know it's never gonna happen.
Omaha would be a better fit as the home of Kansas City's minor league affiliate since they're so close to each other. Kansas City would pull from Omaha, so going to the far bigger market in KC makes way more sense.
why don't they just add the four most successful AHL cities?
AHL cities can compete with attendance and revenue numbers.
that way they could add a new team from the Southern Ontario region.
teams that do poorly get pushed back to the AHL.
that way cities can test out their viability for NHL membership at the AHL level.
Including the Chicago Wolves, Cleveland Monsters, San Diego Gulls, Austin Stars? That would be something.
The NHL has to take care of the situations in Winnipeg and Phoenix before they concern themselves with expansion. But...32 teams is ideal, IMO.
Winnipeg isn't a major problem like Arizona...
They can't fill the smallest full-size arena in the league. I would say that is a problem. But I do agree with you, in that Phoenix is the biggest problem for the NHL currently.@@ElmerFudd16
Arizona problem solved
Every time the conversation of NHL expansion comes up I throw out the same question: could Alaska even get in the conversation? While we do have a few places for the team to play, we would probably need to build an NHL/NBA quality arena. Anchorage and Fairbanks are the 2 largest cities and have the largest population to possibly fill the arena, depending on how good the team is. As for corporations, oil companies that are here would probably want to slap their logo all over the arena, maybe that weird @$$ airline with our name but is based in Seattle 😂 where we fall out of it would be no ownership group vying for a team, and while people here watch hockey, would they go to the games if the team was here?
This is all hypothetical meanderings, we can barely keep the UAA hockey team afloat, so an NHL team is probably a no 😢
Bring back the 🐳
Why would the NHL expand when they have several teams that are struggling to fill their arenas? Move the Coyotes to one of these cities!
Because TV deals are where the real money is made
MLB experienced rapid expansion, talent was diluted, especially pitching talent. You had AA pitchers facing major league hitters.
What about Quebec City and Hamilton in Canada
Quebec City- maybe. Hamilton would have to get permission from the Leafs and Sabers for it to happen since its so close to both cities.
Houston here...We can take an underperforming team like Columbus or the Anaheim ducks and build up the team... AND...change the names and uniforms...Houston is big..look at the metro population...7.3 million, however, that's misleading a number because the draw would be from the suburbs as the Houston city population is primarily hispanic so you're drawing from the white population base of the metro suburbs of about 3 million...still quite a lot of fans.
No way the NHL gets to 36 teams anytime in the next decade. They only have three "new" markets where NHL hockey has a high probability of success: Salt Lake City, Houston, and (yes) Atlanta (I don't think Bettman wants a team in Quebec City). If the Coyotes relocate to SLC, they're down to two. Bettman wants existing cities to think there are lots of places for teams to relocate if they don't do the owner's bidding in keeping the arenas state-of-the-art or building new ones.
for the Atlanta arena locations, they are in ideal locations for hockey fans and young travel players! While the Falcons and Hawks have ideal arena/stadium locations for them in downtown, these new proposed will make Atlanta Thrive in the NHL without a doubt. The Atlanta Braves struggled with attendance in their last few years at Turner Field in downtown but when they moved to the northern suburbs (where most of the Braves fans are from), attendance improved significantly even prior to their World Series Championship run...Anson Carter's Ownership group and Vernon Krause's group (Head guy behind The Gathering Project) are planning to have their arena renderings in ideal places where like 80-90% of Thrashers fans lived at/still live in today and is basically in the center of where 3 18& U travel hockey teams play out of, The Cooler (in Alpharetta), The Ice (in Cumming, GA), and the Duluth Ice Form (in Duluth, GA / where the Thrashers used to practice at). the northern suburbs have grown significantly since the Thrashers left so if Atlanta can get a team and develop a good product on the ice (which they have the potential to with the expansion rules today), they will have fans 100%
Thanks for that background on ATL.
@@seang13 Atlanta had NHL hockey for nearly 20 years (from 1972-1980; 1999-2010)
Hockey registration in Georgia was 0% in 1970
Hockey registration in Georgia was 0.02% in 2020 - one-fiftieth of a percent
50 years but essentially zero growth - at that rate by 2070 enrollment would be 0.04% - still bottom 10 in the United States
Georgia has less hockey players enrolled than every province in Canada, even the smallest provinces
Georgia (2,078 hockey players - 11,029,227 people)
Prince Edward Island (5,557 hockey players - 154,331 people)
Newfoundland population (10,052 hockey players - 510,550 people)
New Brunswick population (14,418 hockey players - 775,610 people)
Nova Scotia (15,571 hockey players - 969,383 people)
Georgia has less hockey players enrolled than all the smallest states in America
Georgia (2,078 hockey players - 11,029,227 people)
Alaska (8,130 hockey players - 733,391 people)
North Dakota (7,310 hockey players - 779,179 people)
South Dakota (3,056 hockey players - 909,824 people)
Maine (5,909 hockey players - 1,362,359 people)
Montana (5,581 hockey players - 1,122,867 people)
Vermont (4,289 hockey players - 647,464 people)
Wyoming (2,195 hockey players - 576,851 people)
The smallest province PEI - 154,331 people
- 3,900 hockey players per 100,000 people
The smallest state Wyoming - 576,851 people
- 380 hockey players per 100,000 people
Georgia has 11,029,227 people, had the NHL for 20 years.
- 20 hockey players per 100,000 people
After 50 years there still has been no growth
@@sampicano I am curious where you get your numbers. DId you also know that Atlanta has one of the largest adult hockey leagues in the US with ~80 teams? (AAHL). The rinks that exist around Atlanta are ALWAYS booked. If there were more sheets, there'd be more players but AFAIK, there are no rinks on the East, West, or South side of the city. The sport is growing here, but it is a tough sell to get developers to build a new multimillion dollar rink in an area without a known client base but if the other rinks in the Metro Atlanta area are any indicator, new rinks around town would also do well.
@@bretts2356 " I am curious where you get your numbers."
USAHOCKEY membership stats
So when you say "largest adult hockey leagues in the US"
And I know that Georgia is bottom 10 in hockey registration someone is lying...
@@bretts2356 " I am curious where you get your numbers."
USAHockey membership stats
So when you say "largest adult hockey leagues in the US" And I know that Georgia is bottom 10 in hockey registration someone is lying...lol
Also the US Census for population data, the 2020 Census data is accessible on Wikipedia sources.
San Diego is also a good Hockey Market and no longer has the NFL so there is alot of room
No mention of Quebec City?
if this happens, how will the playoff bracket look like?
Pronounced "Fors(EYE)th"...If NHL expands they MUST reduce the schedule. Maybe that is a beneficial trade off in that they can do so without reducing revenues at the league level with more teams pulling in gate. (THG will have an aneurysm with 18 games a night though.) Interesting that none of these teams are in Canada. Sure, Winnipeg has problems, and Quebec has market issues, but a second Ontario team either in Hamilton or even the GTA is a no-brainer...Here's my category playoff ranking of the teams you put in the video:
Prep/Commitment: Salt Lake, Kansas City
TV Market Dynamics: Houston, Atlanta (not even close)
Regional TV Draw: Houston (New Orleans, San Antonio, Austin, South Texas), Atlanta (Greenville, Charleston, Birmingham, Huntsville, Savannah), Salt Lake (Boise, Great Falls, LDS Worldwide * via streaming)
Market Separation: Salt Lake, Houston, Atlanta
Weak by Proximate Markets: Omaha (KC), Cincinnati (Columbus)
Corporate Presence: Atlanta, Houston (not even close)
Potential Rivalries: Houston (Dallas), Atlanta (Carolina, Nashville), Salt Lake (Denver, Seattle)
Ownership: Salt Lake, Atlanta
I omitted other, more subjective categories, and restricted it to the obvious ones. So by my count SLC shows 5 times, KCMO 1, HOU 5, ATL 5, OMA -1, CIN -1. However, unless they can demonstrably weight a potential streaming audience in for SLC, the two major markets HOU and ATL have got to be considered front runners. In the past, the NHL hasn't generally cared where the expansion money came from, they just cared that they got it, and left the several teams to figure out how to make it work. That was a mistake. The Coyotes' plight, and the twofer failures in both ATL and WPG are a testiment that this hands-off approach only creates more, bigger, and expensive problems down the road. In the end, I can't understate the DAL-HOU rivalry, which is almost a blood feud in the other sports to rival Dodgers-Giants, Yankees-Red Sox, Chiefs-Broncos, Eagles-Cowboys, etc., etc., etc. In fact the NFL has dropped the ball in not realigning the Cowboys and Texans to the same conference IMO...Going to 36 will probably have to incorporate other changes as well, such as the sharing of minor league teams, adjustments to RFA and UFA status, and such. It probably does dilute the talent pool, not so much at the top as it does down at the bottom. Prospects get most of their opportunities with cellar dweller teams, of which there will be more with a 36 team league. But I'm not sure that the ranks below will fill with exceptional talent behind them...
How do you put Omaha, Nebraska on your list, but no Québec City?
Gary Bettman mentioned these six cities only in February.
Brodie. Story idea. Should the NHL adopt the PWHL method of 3-2-1-0 points. I think you and hockey should to a collab
Absolutely not. I’d like it to go back to what it was and not reward losing. Wins should be 2 or 3 pts, vote on it, 1 pt for a tie after a regular season OT of 5 on 5 or a compromise of 4 on 4 for 5 - 10 mins. ABSOLUTELY ZERO for any type of loss. A supposed professional league should not be rewarding losing and creating a false sense of parity. Get rid of lame gimmicks that have infested Bettman’s NHL like 3 on 3 shinny and shoot outs. Serenity now!
@@notesandfragments it is unfortunate but most American fans loved the gimmick. I agree on 3 for a win 1 for any type of tie and zero for any type of loss.
I think this would just be a good collab video with the hockey guy
When mentioning Cincinnati you aren’t far from Nashville either.
We only get Blue Jackets games here on Balley.
Expansion Drafts will wipe out big chunks of the present teams .