HOLLEY VACUUM SECONDARY FOR RACING?
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
- Sharing what I did back in the 70's early 80's running a vacuum secondary modified as much as I can with success! We cannot ignore the possibilities of other kinds of combinations and specially if done with a lot of thought and wisdom.
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Excellent. 35 years ago with no money for great tyres, suspension or really much racy stuff at all I used my vac sec carb as a crude traction control by putting a small nut/bolt at the secondary close assist arm to force the secondary to open at full throttle. I adjusted the bolt position to deliberatly give a lag in power beforw rpm was high enough to use the secondary airflow. Gettin this right gave traction off of the line and gotnthe car moving without having to pedal to hold traction which gave more consistency. Slow car 14.2 et, open diff, low stall convertor, 3.23 rear ratio 235/60/14 tyres. Nothing fancy but fun and learing when you have time but no money.
Wouldn’t call it, “a crude traction control”. Think it would be more a passive analog, power curve management…
Don’t think y’all ought to play down your accomplishment, as crude, for not having a laptop or ECU involved.
Craig, thanks for sharing your experience with us and we all come from different backgrounds and of course budget considerations.
@@benalamedaracing2765 thankyou for your sharing also Ben.
An odd thing probably due to many factors in life but even though these days I'm involved in far faster drag racing stuff, I still look back and really miss the simple low budget days.
@@georgedreisch2662 thankyou for the kind words.
@@craig8187 it is amazing what we come up with when our wallets are a little light!..lol
My Holley 850 double pumper list number 9380 is an Annular discharge design. It hits like a Ton of Bricks off the line vs my old vac secondary 850. The Annular boosters make all the difference, combined with the mechanical secondaries of course. Another tip for dialing in a carb on the street, use a WIDE BAND O2 sensor. It takes 90% of the guess work out of initial setup. The last 10% of tuning is accomplished with spark plug readings. I really can't over state how valuable a wide band sensor is for carb tuning. The O2 sensor is the best $200 I've spent in recent years. Awesome video Ben. Great info. Thanks 🍻
Thanks for confirming our belief in the superiority of Annular Boosters and I believe you when you say it takes off hard! Could you share a background on your engine combination like heads, compression and cam specs?
@@benalamedaracing2765
Sure, it's a Mopar 440 based 505ci stroker. Edelbrock Performer heads 84cc combustion chambers, I deshrouded the valves as best I could, wound up at about 86cc. I also opened up the "pushrod pinch" on the intake runner as far as I felt safe. The heads are far too small for 505ci, but work very well on the street because of the fantastic "Velocity characteristics " you speak of. Static CR is 10.8-1. Custom spec Bullet Solid roller 254/260 @.050 .585/.585 lift on a 109 lsa. Trickflow single plane, 4150 flange. 1966 Satellite weighs 3,580 with me in it. 9" 3,600 stall converter with 4.10-1 Strange "S60" Rear end on a 28" tire. So much fun on the street !! I need more practice at the track. Only had it out once since the 505 build. 7.79 @91 mph in the 660. 1.72 60 ft. Much room for improvement. Cheers 🍻
@@Torquemonster440 All sounds good and somehow it feels 3500 stall or thereabouts with 4.10s seems to run super good on a street and strip car like yours. B ad RB engines are impressive and I remember a friend told me he has a 440 in it while it was actually a 383 with the same stall speed and gears. Man I was blown away by that 3.35 stroke big block!
Great tips as always. We have some luxuries these days, like putting a gopro view on the carb and compare when squirters run out of volume vs the trend of manifold vacuum as rpm's go up during a run. Couldn't do that in the 80's - just seat of the pants sense of bog and a willingness to tinker until response got solid. A good number of vacuum seondary carbs seemed to only open maybe 7/8+, which would make a double pumper seem "best" on the dyno, and yet were beaten on the street.
You are correct like I stated on a big DP carbs the booster signal drops big time while launching off line. Specially if the gearing is tall or the car dead hooks and there goes stalling a few seconds before finally charging fast, then it is too late when the guy has a fender or more on us!
I have a 3310 on my BBC. I have tuned all the circuits that you have touched on here and this thing is brutal at the hit of the throttle all the way to 6000 rpm where it hits the rev limiter. If the TH400 trans is in 1-2 gear and the secondaries are open, the tires are spinning 110 mph....have to run my drag radials....and it’s in a ‘72 C10 that weighs 4500 lbs. Everybody says it needs a 850-950 DP, but it isn’t happening. I had DaVinci install downleg boosters in the rear and he flowed it at 830 cfm. Thanks for the great content!
Thanks again for your feedback. These is why I explained the issue with "booster signal" stalling with a big carb in real world driving not a dyno- constant roll and stepping on it! I had to explain it clearly and most of the respondents here confirms what I am saying about big dyno numbers contrary to what we see while driving it hard or kind of spirited driving.
Thank You Ben. My Car has been sitting so the carb is coming off anyway to make sure things are clean and clear before I run it. Will check in on things you have shown us here and you have given me an Idea. I have a China Bore Scope Camera that has a real long lead on it. Set it up to view vacuum secondary and either take my son for a ride to watch or set it to record and make test hits.
I would use a camera and see when and how far it opens up. Then it gives you a good hint of what it is really doing while you are stepping on it.
Awesome Tutorial!
Thanks Jennifer!
I did the same to a 600/1850 to a Hipo 289 .030 over with 11:1 badger TRw pistons on 54cc heads. 292dur adv and .512 lift 110lsa. Torker II was the best we had and still Ripped out solid 6500 revs on Rhodes lifters and comp cam 1.6 roller rockers…w/3200 stall on a 76 Cobra II w/390 gear set, Fun fun fun! I did this back in 1988.
For sure it works because you have decent compression to make a difference in your build! Good combination for the streets you have there.
@@benalamedaracing2765 next build is a 460 4.150 bore stroker w/6.2” rods… 70 cc heads w/16 cc dish .036 mLS gasket to achieve 10.9.
239/244 dur @ .050 and 115 Lsa. No reversion as the ex closes Atdc with 0 deg. Should I v-groove the TFS high port 225?
Been doing Quadrajets on and off for 40 years now. I have a friend that has a 383+ cubic inch Small block Chevy with a Quadrajet .in a well sorted out 52:42 tug a truck. It has pulled Duramax and Big blocks backwards. And has won all 3 weight classes up to 9500 lbs. +. Your geat explaining tells us that it has something to do on how worked . Thanks for the great videos!
Thanks Don and those quads are awesome things right off the box! I choose the Holleys modular design because of tuning ease at the tracks, with ever changing conditions that needs tearing down constantly chasing the tune!
I have lots of time with the Thermoquads and they are just as impressive and somehow smogged up small blocks still pull hard because of the small primaries and big secondary's with an air valve! Hard to beat them off the line.
@@benalamedaracing2765 Yes. With fixed orifices and having to take the top off on the Quadrajets There is only a few things you can do at the track. Very time consuming carburetors but cheap.
@@dondotterer24 Holley had spread bore carbs but with non adjustable floats which really blew me away because I would have tried it if it had that option back in the day.
Very good point to remind people that Dino checking your engine will have nothing to do on how it accelerates from a dead stop and the difference between street tires and slicks at the drag strip is huge
Agree but let me reiterate and I should do a segment to continue on this. I get to have my stall speed more accurately configured if I did dyno it because it shows me my actual torque peak and at what rpms it has all of it. Otherwise your comment is correct sir.
While I have a decent understanding of all this that's the best visual I ve seen. Thanks as always
Thank you Ben! Glad it became even clearer and for those watching that it helps!
Great footage….
Thanks for supporting my channel Stang66.
Awesome content sir. Straight forward and very easy to understand. Thank you!
Thanks and glad you tuned in!
The old TRW books had a graph on the back page for carburetor sizing.
It’s graphed CID - @ RPM
The gave you the correct CFM rating
Example 302 @ 7000rpm
Only needs 600CFM
My built 306 had a 600CFM Holly
Vac secondary
It would snack the tach down at 7,000rpm
Like a Coyote
Bury the stock tachometer on a 1985 GT
I bought an 85 when they first came out and was a big dog on the streets at that time proud of my steed!
I can give everyone the specs on that little engine.
It’s was a 1985 roller cam block
With ported 351 Windsor head
Solid lifter comp cam 306 / 530
All balanced rotating assembly
Smack and bury the tachometer
Edlebrock Performer RPM intake / Dual Plane
It’s when those intakes came out in the early 1990’s
Ran a similar combination years back and it ran hard!
Hay that's the 67 mustang that me and Todd Kennedy bought from Ben back in, I think 1990. 😮
This racecar ended up with Coast High Performance as their test car and someone bought it and eventually got stolen! Todd i have not seen in a while and the fiberglass bumper you see here in the video is the exact one I bought from Todd years ago! lol It was very light and he sold it to me at a great price!
@@benalamedaracing2765 Ben, This is Chris Huff of then CHP/Probe Industries. Todd and I bought your 67 when we were about to cut up Todd's 67 Mustang. I had just built an 414ci stroker motor for Circle Track magazine and wanted to build a drag car to put it in. You told me you were doing a Fox body car and the 67 was sitting in the back yard. Yes, it was under a tree and I think we gave you 500 bucks for it. Leaves were flying out of it all the way to Hawthorn. I put a full cage in it and brought everything up to spec and did an incredible pain job. I will send you a picture. I sold the car and an enclosed trailer that I got from George Klass to an employee at Probe Industries. And yes the car was stolen from him never to be seen again. Good to find you on RUclips. Take care, CH
Wow, this was great to watch, THANKS!
Glad you like it and would do more tech stuff.
DOPE!!!!!
Glad you are here bud!
Just run a 5000 rpm converter on the street, like I do, no worries of low rpm stuff. lol
p.s. I remember those REO pumps, because I used to drive an old Diamond REO truck many years ago, and it had the 500 CFM 2bbl carb with that style pump on it. Thus the name. I have used those REO pumps on 4bbl Holleys, and even made my own custom profile pump cam from an auto body squeegee, fun days.
Thanks you for reminding me about that 500 2bl carb! lol It did have that REO pump now that you reminded me. I went to that when I was a kiddo to slap on my 2v intake manifold and it did gain! lol
@@benalamedaracing2765 when I had first put a 302 in my mustang, around 1988, It was a two barrel bone stock, I put on a 500 2bbl REO carb, headers cherry bomb mufflers, retuned the distributor curve, and ran it. Lol I was just a teenager so it was pretty fast to me, in that little light car.
@@AmericanThunder It would have been a light car specially with a fiberglass hood and battery in the trunk! lol
@@benalamedaracing2765 yup! If it doesn't make it go faster, it's just excess weight. lol
Please Please Please,Do an video on how to make a holley double pumper real snappy and Rev very crispy 🙏 💪
Will do James!
Freaking awesome! Thanks kuya Ben!
Thanks Jigger and regards to all in the family!
Like Darin Morgan says. Velocity, Velocity, Velocity!
Absolutely and loosing the velocity on the booster will be a bogging situation!
i have said that many of times You don't launch a Dyno off the start line. And you only get full bore power. throttle response is important at the drag strip not on the Dyno.
Hard to argue with that sir.
Thx
Like wise sir thank you.
Great video!
Glad you like it and thanks for your support!
great content. Than you.
Your welcome sir and glad you are watching this channel.
Hi Ben hope you're doing well, another well done video , that moroso air cleaner base is the one I ran back in the day I was just talking to my son Adam about this, one of our stock ford 5.0 air cleaner base is made the same as the moroso, I think if I remember right that base was worth a tenth of a second on my 429 , you always hit on good stuff Ben thanks for sharing your video and knowledge 👍
Terry, thanks again and if I remember correctly my 85 5.0 I did notice had an effectively designed lower air cleaner base! Did a lot of testing then @ Riverside Raceway and came up with mods on the stock 5.0 emissions carb from the factory! lol I wonder if it is worthwhile to go thru that in a video? Should be very interesting.
@benalamedaracing2765 hi Ben I think that would be a good video I can honestly say you make any topic interesting , I always look forward to your videos know matter what the subject
@@terrygrover6440 Thanks Terry!
You definitely needed an upgraded clutch
Even with street radial tires.
That little engine had a lot of power
With a name like you have Leadfoot I would make sure I have sticky tires out back! lol Thanks for watching my videos.
Nice video Ben!!!!!!
thanks and hope all is well bud! You in Cali or you took off just like almost everyone we know leaving California for greener pastures!
One of the guys I would hang out with back in the street racing days always ran vac secondaries and he would use those K&N plastic covers that would fit over the choke tower & I asked him if it worked and he claimed it was worth 25 hp. Not sure if that was ever verified or something he made up but he had one on every car I ever saw.
More like 10
I remember those things and it seems to have worked but I feel Hank is correct more like 10hp or thereabouts!
@@hankclingingsmith8707 agree on your numbers.
@@benalamedaracing2765 Probably so, I only ever ran double pumpers with the choke milled so I never worried about it I just thought about it when you started talking about drop bases for the air filter. Weird how certain things make you remember strange stuff lol.
@@williamzoom I am having a Biden moment thank God Trump ain't here to make me look stupid! lol
Yep had the exact experience as your BMW with my 94 Cadillac sts with the K&N air filter.
Thanks Don and did I explain that real good and clear? Hope so because it was really a guess! lol
@@benalamedaracing2765 yes you did a great job.i know you could do a 3 hour video on things like this. And I would listen to all and take notes. But only a few of us hard core guys. Maybe some day do a live chat inviting people you know that can add to whatever subject. Thanks for all your videos! Oh don't forget I'm a Chevy guy. LOL
Drop base air cleaner 👍
Dale, thanks and I was a loss for words must be getting a Biden moment here! lol
Good to see a new video sir!!! You can't race a dyno!!! You have that right sir!!! It's not all about top end numbers. If you can't get her moving, it doesn't matter lol.
Yes it is basically a test on a roll just like if we are doing 35-45 and punching it! lol . Start from a dead stop and things start to happen different from our rolling test sequence.
@benalamedaracing2765 YES sir!!!
Hi ben doug from tarzana here iwas wondering could you show how to remove and install a booster in a holley all the holley books ive a 34:16 the nver showed how to change from a straight leg to a dogleg or annular booster love your videos keep up the work its priceless
There use to be a tool like a clamp that you screwed it and pressed in the boosters. I wonder if they are still around. Perhaps any of the carb shops would have them. Call Teds Carburetors in Lancaster and mention my name he might have one. Mike and his son are good carb people and he can probably get you one of them.
school has started. superior information found nowhere else. WOW
Thanks and glad you are with me here on the channel.
Flat top pistons too
At a minimum yes it has to be that.
i did not know about the screw on the bottom of a holley to adjust the secondaries..
JUst turn it in to expose even very little of it and it will be for the better!
@@benalamedaracing2765 thank you for the tip about the screw on the holley,i adjusted the screw on my 850dp on my 428fe and it not only is more responsive when i kick it in, it also sounds better idling, but i did have to turn down the idle on the primaries.
10:1 331 sbf, run 500 cfm vac sec carb at 5000’, 600 cfm at sea level
Wow your elevation is up there! You could have gotten 1.5 more points of compression without loosing anything and gains mpg's!
@@benalamedaracing2765 it’s a 4500 pound bronco with 3.73s on 35s, run 91, aluminum heads tight quench, low drag rings. Kept it 10:1 so I wouldn’t have problems down the hill in San Fernando
@@WesternReloader Where do you live? I love the wilderness as I see on your video. I had a home by Pinion Hills very close to Wrightwood.
@@benalamedaracing2765 pinyon hills off 138? I lived in Wrightwood in 1996 and went to Serrano High (Phelan) but currently reside in Frazier Park, off the grapevine
Good video. I have a 332 cubic inch 302 in a Pinto with a 750 double pumper annular booster, Quick Fuel. Shift at 6500 rpm. Edelbrock air gap intake. I wonder if I should try a smaller carb now? Or 750 vacuum secondary?
Clay, depends on your engine combination. Do you have lots of work done on it or is it all bolt on?
@@benalamedaracing2765 Lots of work done. Actually, I called you about it a year or two ago. Seems to have lots of mid range power. But always looking for more.
@@claytonstoolbox What heads and compression? I remember you but not the details very much.
@@benalamedaracing2765 Older Trick Flow TW heads. Professionally ported. 170cc intake runners. Compression is about 10.5 cranking compression about 185 pounds. Cam 231 and 239 @ .050. 110 LSA Roller Hydraulic. Ed air gap intake. The car has very strong mid range but the top end past 5500 isn't what I would expect.
50cc per ten strokes
You could drive it daily on 93 octane
Some people will say we are liars Elvin! lol
You mean a stubstack?
Thanks for reminding me I am having a Biden moment! Haha.
Do you set the secondary slots to half of the primary slots?
Paul, at a minimum turn the screws a tad bit just to expose the line just peeking thru the blades. This will do wonders even with that small part exposed.
How do you feel about 4V quench Cleveland Heads when on a stroked Cleveland to 395
I think that will give you approx. 12.1 or thereabouts with that combination. It should run very good!
@@benalamedaracing2765 made 11.75 : 1. 513 Hp @ 5,700 and 530 fr lbs at 4,200. 425 ft lbs at 2,800 also.
Hey Ben is your fb page still hacked?
Unfortunately still is out of my reach. I got a nephew working on trying to get it back but so far nothing...