What's your favorite switcher of the bunch? Or one that we didn't mention? Tell us below! SWITCHERS FEATURED IN THIS VIDEO: Gigrig G2 - shop.thegigrig.com/g2/ Gigrig G3 - shop.thegigrig.com/G3/ EHX Super Switcher - bit.ly/3dVlUR0 BOSS Es-5 - amzn.to/329kVY3 BOSS Es-8 - amzn.to/3dbs68m Disaster Area DPC-8EZ - amzn.to/32d7eHC Musicom Lab EFX-MKV - bit.ly/3uOOF8U Musicom EFX LE II - bit.ly/3wWyqsm RJM PBC6X - shop.rjmmusic.com/b-stock-mastermind-pbc-6x/ RJM PBC/10 - shop.rjmmusic.com/mastermind-pbc-10/
I have now G2 and I use Selah Quartz with it to program midi when I need more complex programming and display. I'm going to buy G3. G2 is so easy and fast to use and I'm really happy with it and when I get G3, I don't need that Selah Quarzt anymore.
G2 does a lot. It also has stereo outputs one of which is isolated with a transformer and allows the phase to be reversed (specifically designed for stereo amps). It provides 120 presets, which is less than some, but still quite a lot. The bank function is well thought out, you don’t have to navigate through loads of banks, hit the bank button and pick your desired bank by hitting switches 1 through 8. Allows you to use switches to turn presets on/off or you can assign a switch to turn any effect on/off (I.e. set your basic sounds to presets, then use switches to selectively add or subtract a desired effect). That’s way better than remembering a load of presets, although you can do that also. It’s ease of use doesn’t compromise functionality, it’s really well thought out. Lastly and most importantly it has top quality sound.
David, many of the switchers on here have that feature, and do it for less money with more options. Musicom Lab, RJM both have this feature as well with isolated outputs, switching matrix, etc. Sound quality is difficult for most to determine since they're not comparing switchers side-by-side. Most of them, in bypass at least, are all pretty good, not many discernible differences internally in terms of how the wiring of matrix might impact the tone. The buffers on them however are very different and The Gig Rig buffers aren't at the same level as the RJM or the Musicom Lab - they both have around 100-150 ohm output impedance. The Gig Rig version is around 1K (10x higher). That's not great for driving long lines without degradation of sound.
Just sold my ehx super switcher and purchased a boss es-8. I couldn't be happier. I was too limited on my ehx with only having 1 pc and 1 cc message at a time. Now I can program way more than I need on the es-8 and its super easy. Small learning curve but seriously not that bad.
I posted this in a reply here but I think it’s worth mentioning. I have had the Boss ES-8 for several years now and even though there are 8 loops I came to the point where I needed an extra loop and I had run out. It was after a bit of consideration that I realized that my 2 midi controlled pedals, Strymon Timeline and Bigsky, do not need to run through the two stereo loops and could actually just go in the chain on the out of the es-8 switcher. This would free up two additional stereo channels to use. How I then turned the Strymon pedals on and off was by simply always sending a midi command to each pedal since I use the ES-8 in song set mode using presets. When I want to turn the delay or reverb off I send a midi command from the es-8 to that pedal to change to a “dry” preset I’ve saved on that pedal. This in turn means the pedals wet effect is not affecting the signal so it’s the same as if I had turned the loop off. Hope this helps someone. This in theory would work with any switcher that had midi functionality. Great Video!
Thank you. All I’m looking for is to be able to switch from rhythm to lead on stage with an added boost and delay with one click instead of two. That may not sound like a big deal but I play and sing so that one less click would make a huge difference!
I’ve preordered a g3 atom for my wet/dry/wet board. I’ll use it for all my stereo pedals (6 stereo loops), and for the front end of my dry amp I’ll be adding a morning star ML5 (5 mono loops) which is super compact and can be slaved to the g3.
@@VertexEffectsInc the g3 has at least one parallel mixer, but honestly I may run an impure wet (some dry) in order to run delay into reverb without loosing the initial sound (before the delays are happening) in the reverb. But I’ll play with doing the delay and reverb in parallel with kill dry too... I am also interested in running a couple delays in parallel though.
@@VertexEffectsInc I'm not sure I understand what you mean here, frankly i'm a decently smart guy with a math degree, but the whole parallel killdry signal chain thing can get pretty freaky pretty fast and I'm not sure I really get it all the time. But since the Atom allows you to change the mixer configuration and even pedal order per preset it's going to be a great platform for figuring out how to do this stuff, and experiment without having to rewire my board every time I'd like to try a different approach. I would have thought that you could run 2 stereo effects in parallel both in kill dry, being fed by the slave out of my dry amp and get a decent result, but maybe that's not what you are getting at? In any case I have a lovely analog stereo phaser, as well as a stereo tube tremolo, in addition to a pair of stereo delays and reverb, oh yeah and a chorus/flanger... So obviously i'll be having a less than pure killdry situation going on downstream of my dry amp. Now if I had stereo dry amps AND stereo wet amps...
@@jessedaly7847 you'd have to break the loops somehow, similarly to how you would do a 4CM set up, but fed by the line out from your dry amp into the switcher after you've already exited the switcher with your dry path. The line level input would feed your mixer with your 100% wet effects set to kill dry, however, I don't think you can have multiple parallel mixes in this unit and I'm also not sure if your trem or phaser go 100% wet, a lot of them don't and aren't designed to be "return only" effects like you'd see in a mix bus.
I didn't see it mentioned but the best decision I've made regarding pedal purchases was the Boss MS-3. It's saved so much space on my board and it takes away all tap dancing I would have to do so it helps me perform better than being stuck behind my board the whole time. There's a handful of times I've taken some pedals off the board because some of the onboard effects sounded better than the ones I was using. I also like that it helps me save space on my board so I don't have to carry around a huge board. The MS-3 comes at my highest recommendation. It'll never leave my board.
Also, I know it's more of a Multi-Effects Processor but I bought it because of the Loop Switching elements. The only downside to the MS-3 is the ability to not be able to switch your loop orders but that's not a huge deal to me personally.
@@VertexEffectsInc For sure I totally get it. Just wanted to throw that out there for anyone reading these comments that may not wanna go as big with the other switchers like me. I got it as a switching system first and an effects unit 2nd
You mentioned around 18:55 that RJM does not allow to change the order of the effects, but I'm pretty sure that RJM PBC 6X does (while PBC 10 does not): "What’s new about this model? The big new feature is the ability to rearrange loop order. Your effects can automatically be placed in a different order for each preset. Aside from that, it’s smaller and less expensive than the original Mastermind PBC, making it more suitable for smaller pedalboards." Great video, I'm a Musicomlab user myself, great piece of equipment.
I don’t think anything is said in the video to disqualify what you said about the RJM, we talked about both models, and you’re correct only the PBC6X has that switching matrix.
@@VertexEffectsInc around 18:50 while comparing PBC 6X to EFX V there's a quote "and the fact that you can change order with that same matrix is really really helpful, the RJM equivalent doesn't allow you to change the order and the positioning of the effects"
@@me0_0irl I think that quote was talking about the EFX V that's the equal to the RJM PBC10. The MKV has 9 loops and a volume loop, the RJM has 10. The EFXLE is the equivalent to the PBC6x
For those wondering about the buffer specs of the Disaster Area, apparently they updated the manual info and it has an input impedance 1M ohm (which is sweet) and a selectable output impedance of 560 ohms up to 33k ohms (that last one a whopping number you will probably never need).
I watched this video over a year ago and it has been a great help. I got me a super switcher and it has been perfect to use for my synth pedals. The boost on it is killer.
Happy that I stumbled on this video. 2 years on and still so many options. I have a VERY unique requirement that will require a lot of interesting programming. Can’t wait to dig in further as I finally rebuild my rig.
Thanks for the rundown. Went with the Boss ES-8, because second-hand units are really good value in UK, around £300 - which gives you a lot for the price of just 3 cups of coffee ;) The Disaster Area is about that price new, ever here. Might have gone ES-5, except they only go for £40-50 less than the ES-8. I guess people value the small size of the ES-5. But I need a couple of stereo loops for loopers, and delay/reverb. Chase Bliss Mood, Cosmos / Polymoon, Mercury X.
As a Musicom EFX user, I can’t praise it enough. I’ve used switchers from Disaster Area, One Control, Boss, and Carl Martin; all of these switchers are nice but I found these switchers to be lacking as my needs/knowledge grew. Doc, you classify this as the tier 3 type switcher, and I agree, but fellow watchers I think it could have been put in each tier. It’s incredibly user friendly. So go buy one, you won’t regret it. Great video, Doc! *edit :: for context I sit between person 2 and 3. Tech enough to get by and nerdy enough to dive in and learn on my own.
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all this so well, I really appreciate it. I've been fence-sitting with regard to getting a switcher but know that I've really needed one. Your clear explanation and evaluation has been a great help! I can see from this that the Boss ES-8 will be perfect for my needs, so that's what I'll go with. You can bet I'll be shopping at Vertex as well, cheers!
First time hearing about Musicom. I am one of those who wants to write out the entire show and be able to switch forward through the songs and their various parts sequentially. This will include both in-front-of-amps devices as well as stereo backline effects in a wet/dry/wet system. Up to now I have been primarily focused on the RJM Mastermind GT22. But, being that no-one makes exactly what I want, I think that, at the end of the day, I need to have everything I want/need custom-made to my specs (cleaner/easier end-product). To be able to tell/show others what I am after so it can be made so that my job during a performance is simplified to an extreme level. Literally just the ability to shift forward through the entire show with just one button, plus some expression pedals for volume, wah, and modulation controls (speed and depth) for more than one effect/device at a time. The next concern is how many wires are running from the front of the stage to the backline. Ideally, 2. One for power and one for AOIP/MIDI sends/receives (DANTE/MADI?). I have other ideas, but they do not apply to this discussion (EXT LED).
Thx Mason! I use G3. I like the interface and so far there hasn't been anything I want to do that I have been able to do. That said it is pricey and it may not be for everyone. Morningstar engineering has a lot of good products as well. I especially like their computer interface that makes programming super simple ...
My Super Switcher is on the way. I've always been a Fender amp with compression and a Blues Driver/ Tube Screamer kinda guy. Been getting more pedals and it's getting annoying turning one off and one on at the same time now that I have about 8 pedals. Looking forward to hitting one button and having a whole new loop at my feet! Thanks for this video.
Thank you for this! I think the ES-8 might be the one for me. The Musicomlab unit I tried a couple of years ago was to difficult to program from the unit.
I like RJM stuff, I have the Effects Gizmo full stereo version rack mount with pedal shelves, 2 amp gizmos for stereo half stacks, and the Mastermind GT10 midi controller. A pedalboard switcher for stereo rig would require a ton of cable length between the amps and pedalboard, and none had enough stereo TRS loops for my signal pathing. With the rack setup, only a midi foot controller is needed, and some midi controllable pedals like reverb and delay and wah and midi volume modules for both amp fx loops. May seem overkill but my setup is for a live rig as the only guitarist in a metal band, and I use clean tones too... so I run two amps in stereo with a doubler and both fx loops with stereo pedals. It took a ton of research and studying manuals, but a mono rig would have been wayyyy cheaper and less complicated, but not the sound I want.
Gigrig is a fantastic product, Dan really runs a great company. Their MIDI14 was great sounding, lots of functionally. The next gen G2 took it to another level, but the MIDI14 still could be figured out by new users.
I paid for a switcher then saw this video was about to drop and was waiting to see something I didn't know about be mentioned more suitable. Still pretty happy that I'm picking up a second hand Musicomlabs efx mk3 tomorrow. Looking forward to see what I can get out of it.
Just finished putting together a board around a PBC 6X and then put all of the songs, set lists and presets into it, ready for a solo gig this week. It is the gold standard. If you can afford one the RJM stuff is the industry standard. Cry once, buy the best.
@@VertexEffectsInc for the record, I owned one of the other ones you recommended and while it was great, it then developed faults. It was fully repaired under warranty, even though it was 3 years old, but I felt I couldn’t trust it. Hence, the importance of buying best first time.
Saw your past video on switchers and now I'm thinking of getting one so I don't have to tap dance around all my pedals. Only problem is, I'm having trouble finding one that is compact enough to fit on my pedalboard, but has at least 5 switches, can accomdoate most of my pedals, can switch the clean/dirty channel on my Mesa Boogie Mark V, and can work with the "4 cable method" of FX In/Out of my amp for my effects and noise gate. My current setup looks like Tuner>Noise Gate>Synth>Digitech>Volume>Wah>Compressor>Big Muff>Phaser>OD>Front of Amp and then Effects Send>Tri-Chorus>Delay>Reverb 1>Reverb 2>Loop Station>Effects Return. Any suggestions?
Well...you tuner doesn't need to be in the loop. Nor does the Volume and wah. Those can be before. If any of your pedals have MIDI like the Chorus, Delay, or Reverb, they can live out of the looper as well and be controlled via MIDI. RJM is my favorite.
I opted purchase the Voodoo Labs PX-8, which has met my needs well… up until I added Iridium and Collider to my rig. It has MIDI capability but I cannot figure out how to do that yet 😞. Great content as always Sir. If you put your ability to explain things to simpletons like myself into a switcher, you’d score a win.
I use a BYOC Super8 switcher. Good for what I do and it doubles as a great project which you've gotta build yourself. If I was placing it near any product, it is similar to the EHX. Simple and effective, and a fun build for the tinkerers out there. If I was upgrading to anything, and I don't see it happening but one never knows, I would go with the Boss ES-8. You can do so much with that fantastic piece of gear.
Funny I never noticed the Super8 Switcher project on BYOC. Really cool device, but I’d lose my mind trying to remember what’s in Preset bank B-3. Thanks for mentioning it - looking at the schematic gave me a much better idea of what’s going on inside these beasties.
@@chipsterb4946 all you gotta do is tap on that preset and it turns the "On" pedals LED. So you know what is on. I only wish it was easier to cycle through presets and back to switching on/off mode.
Finally the video I was waiting for.... please explain how to use a 6 or 8 loop switcher when you have 12 pedals (if you can). Maybe using stuffs as the strymon timeline just with the midi? Or leave some pedals out of the loops? Which pedals can stay out of the loops? I saw your friend Daniel Pedalboard from Virginia in the “Mastering your church Pedalboard” episode and he had an Es8 with more than 8 pedals. Sorry for my English, I really love your videos thank you.
The MIDI pedals can be used outside of the loops and controlled via MIDI. We did this with Rhett Shull and others with their switcher rigs as you can change settings and turn pedals on/off without being in a loop of the switcher. Ordinarily this would be time-based pedals like delay and reverb, modulation, any sort of looper, things like that.
Nice video very informative. I'm a big fan of the Boss MS-3 since I just don't need anything more and the built effects sound great. A simple budget midi controller without loops is Disaster Area Design DMC -7 or similar which you can pickup for less than 100 US used. It all comes down to budget and purpose.
I have a Disaster Area DPC-5 Gen. 3. It's pretty nice, doesn't take up much space, and midi controls my Zoom MS-70 CDR straight out of the box. Super cool!
Excellent recommendations!! Thanks, Mason! What about the Morningstar system? I would like some review at some point, because as everyone else I know you know your stuff, and we trust you! Again, thanks for all these videos you put out there!!
I've got a board with the Boss ES-8. I love it but there's two main drawbacks. (1) It's very big and takes up fully 40% of my pedal board area, and patch panel on the back is tight and will only handle the smallest of straight connectors. (2) It will only address and send single PC messages to 8 devices and/or two CC messages per device. I mean 8 total MIDI packets per preset. If I have my two full boards, one pre-amp and one board in the FX loop, that becomes a limitation and requires reserving a PRESET on each back to do a RESET operation to shut things off. This is a very clumsy workaround. One Question: since it takes up so much real estate, is their any suggested method for creating an umbilical cable to separate the switcher from the pedalboard without a huge collection of cables. I've been thinking about DB25 break out boards connected by an off-the-shelf DB25 serial cable. Any thoughts?
I guess my question is what 8 loop switcher is smaller, technically it's 9 loops with the VP insert? You could get some broadcast cables snakes which are really low capacitance and potentially do it, but I don't think it'd be wise.
I just got into switchers. I got one used, a simple by OneControl for $35. Another guy is sending me his Moen GEC8 JR Looper/Switcher, and if I like it I can keep it for $50. But I'm looking at a bigger board so I can fit the Electro-Harmonix one on it and all the pedals that I want to use, without overcrowding my board. This video was very helpful!
This was very helpful. Setting up a studio board and doing comparative research on all the switchers available. I'm advanced on programming and not terribly interested in the "simplicity" approach, but absolutely needed as many loops as I could get. I also absolutely needed a robust computer editor for presets. That took the Gigrig product off the table, unfortunately. Your discussion sealed the MusicomLab EFX MK-VI for me. Thanks!
Incredible video thanks! So glad to hear about smaller switchers and different brands I hadn’t heard of Would you still put separate input and output buffers on either side of a more simple true bypass switcher like the gigrig quartermaster?
Question: I have 4 amps. I use different effect pedals with each amp. (I think about this as 4 different "rigs.") Is there a switcher, which will enable me to include all 4 of my rigs? (The switchers I've seen contemplate only 2 amp outputs, but I have 4 different amps I want to include in my switcher.) How can I do this?
Well thank you for taking the time to sort all this out and it's great to hear it from somebody so experienced. I do have a takeaway question, I would like to place more than one pedal in my Loop and it seems most of these are designed for individual pedals / Loop. My question would be Can I stack three or four together anytime Loop if I chose to?
Great video! Will you be making a video of your WET DRY WET PBC6X rig? I have a PBC6X myself and have been wondering what the best way to go about routing this setup is? I’m having issues with isolation/grounding issues right now. Not sure how to remedy this and hoping you’ll talk about it.
does the es-8 have isolated outputs that are phase reversible? of all of the switchers out there.. this seems like one of the most important things for a switcher to have but I'm finding a lot of them lack it
No and no. You would need to have something like a Lehle P split on top of one amp to isolate it and have polarity control. You could also get around the polarity thing by having one inverted speaker cable if the amps didn’t match up. If you kept them on the same grounds you may not need the galvanic isolation
Have you done a video on your Wet-Dry-Wet Build? Would be interested in seeing that. Thanks, this was VERY INFORMATIVE. I'm in the Contemplation zone right now, but know I will be getting a Switcher this Year, Sometime. Also, now you have to Look at the Brand New Carl Martin?
Great informative vid as always. After having an es8 (which shit the bed just out of warranty. 😭) and now es5 I can defo say the boss ones are pretty versatile! Would like to get my hands on a g3 atom at some stage.
I watched this to try and find a simple switcher that would make my life easier, but these things are all crazy. There must be something simpler than all of these that just lets you turn on one or more pedals at a time thus taking them out of the loop when you are not using them.
As long as I've played guitar 25yrs... I've never had or considered a switcher. I run a traditional stomp box setup, into a M13, into Fx loop of my amp. My question is can a "switcher" recall different settings/dials from your analogue pedals, for each preset? Ex: for one I have my Earthquaker Palisades set to OD mode low gain, then on another switcher preset have it set to palisades fuzz heavy gain? Or can it not do that, and when the switcher calls up that pedal it's stuck to whatever dials you have it on? What about a digital pedal, like a HX stomp? can you have the switcher call up different fx and settings from the Stomp, and assign them to different presets on the switcher?
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks for the reply and clarification Mason! It would be a game changer if it could recall analogue pedals... I got so many analogue pedals with so many flavors in the box, like the EQD Palisades having so many different drives, or an EQD data corruptor, 3 settings I love on there, but the downside is having to quickly dial in those different sounds from the same pedal... within a song while performing live? very difficult, then with 2-3 pedals lol nope. looks like digital midi stomps hooked up to a switcher has amazing potential. which is why I love the m13 so much with stomps. with my M13 i set each row to different songs or set lists. I can have the same effects like delays on top of each other, but different settings.
Tom just FYI - there are also a number of pedals that have an analogue signal path, look and behave like old school pedals with knobs and switches, and can be used exactly like the rest of your analog pedals, but they also have a MIDI “brain” that allows you to change presets (the knobs generally won’t move, but the sound will change). Just to give one example (there are dozens) based on your example above for wanting to flip from low gain to fuzz, the Chase Bliss ‘Brothers’ has two channels of boost/drive/fuzz and you can select any of those, or combination thereof, using a switcher (and also changing your M13 or HX Stomp preset at the same time with one press of the switcher). I don’t have any affiliation (I do own a Brothers), and there are loads of peels like that to chose from now.
@@tomzeto actually there is a auch device coming that you are talking about. It’s called the „gecko tool“ It basically lets you motorize any knob on any pedal or amp, a total game changer. What you can do then is control these knobs with exp or with pre programmed presets… total game changer, can’t wait to get mine haha
Question. I want to take all my pedals off board and put in rack drawers where they’ll stay. It’s 6 pedals between the guitar and front of AxeFxIIXL+, pretty simple right? My floorboard will just be my MFC101 and a pedal switcher IF I understand this switcher or loop switcher thing correctly. The routing and/or things needed have me pretty fn stumped. 1- I need some kind of loop/switcher right, but do I need something in the rack like an interface or a device that communicates with the AxeFx and the floor switcher? 2- Can a switcher have a “Y” function so that I can control the pedals independently in my rack but switch over to my Fryette power amp with that same loop of pedals? Out of the 6 pedals I have I only ever run one at a time so no real loops happening I just need to control them from the floor. Thanks so much for any and all help provided
not sure if i'm understanding your question correctly, but i think if you wanted to keep your pedals in the drawer you'd need something like the Morningstar MC6 on the floor and then the ML10x in the drawer (amongst some other options). The switchers in this video would be on the pedalboard in front of you.
I'm pretty much limited to the disaster area switchers unless I want to have to change my board. I wish there were more super compact (depth wise) switchers
@@VertexEffectsInc not 100% sure. I got one and it's amazing, you find a lot on reverb even down to 350. However I probably go for the disaster area sooner or later because of space.
Mason, a question for you. I'm considering the RJM PBC6X and am concerned about the input buffer. I'll be using a fuzz that hates a buffer in front of it. Do I need to change anything in order to not let the input buffer of the switcher affect the fuzz pedal?
The disaster seems like a sweet little guy and so compact. The g3 of that thing can make so much, and you can do even more with the tuner jack and turned it into a multi jack.
VERTEX, How can you use a Fractal FM9 floorboard processor as an Effect switching system by using the MIDI ports? What I mean is you can assign the footswitches on the FM9 to a MIDI channel message number that will go to an MIDI effect switching I/O Unit. This will save pedalboard space by using the FM9 as an effect processor unit as well as as a MIDI effect switching unit to switch off/on analog guitar pedals, which will be serving a "dual purpose". I don't want to buy an effects switching system because they are expensive which you can buy a fractal FM9 and use it as a dual purpose by using it as a MIDI effects Loop switching unit.
Hey mason. Do you have a video of using an hx stomp with a switcher. I want to run my dirt and wah in front of the amp and then the HX stomp and specular tempest among other pedal in the amp effects loop. Just use the switcher for midi functions on the pedals in the loop.
Same, I have a hx stomp and analog pedals like overdrives. I’ll be acquiring a boss es8 soon. I know I’ll be able to switch between patches, but because there is a small noise lag switching between them, I will also want to know if I would be able to change snapshots with the es8, but I can’t find any videos or information about it
Really interesting. Thinking about getting a switcher and probably the boss ES8. My only concern if finding the info if loops can be routed only to a specific amp out (using 2 amps with specific effects hitting each of them and no effect loop on these amps). Maybe you have that info and a way to do it. In any case thanks for the video !
I’d like to point out that on the Gigrig G3s (both G3 and G3 Atom) can do parallel routing and can flip the phase on every loop, plus isolated outputs, I’d say that the G3s are like a 2.4 type switcher, it is capable of things the Boss switchers can do, and but it isn’t as advanced as the RJM Stuff.
The G3 will be interesting to see when it's here in the USA. I don't see them much here and I know they're made in fairly small lots - not often used by the rig building community. I'm interested to see it in action.
@@efsglass the programming side and the software side and MIDI is much more detailed and fully open to the customer to optimize and customize beyond anything that's out there. If the PBC10 had the same matrix as the G3 (and the G3 and RJM PBC6 have the same matrix that's in the Boss ES-8 BTW) I think it would be a great move on the part of RJM. The G3 looks to be good...again not many of them out there yet to really know. The RJM is the professional gold standard, has been for many years in the pro circles - for touring pro's it's the top choice.
I have a G3. It offers 12 loops, with the ability to set any/all pairs to stereo. You can also use the Aux/Tuner loop as a 13th pre-buffer loop. You can reorder all loops regardless of mono/stereo status. The MIDI capabilities are light years beyond G2. G3 also allows you to put the signal into parallel before any loop, and rejoin to series after any loop (or not at all). It also allows you to program trails for devices to allow effect tails to keep sounding after patch changes. I wish the reviewer had read the specs for G3 a bit more carefully. He kind of lumped the G2 and G3 together, and there are significant improvements in G3, especially with MIDI. I’m not saying it’s necessarily a better choice for every need, but the implication in this video is that it’s only suitable for entry level users, when in fact it’s as powerful and capable as anything available.
You mentioned something in the beginning that has got me thinking... Will you be manufacturing your own switcher at any point? And if not, what would be the reason for not going ahead with something like that?
Is he an electronic engineer, software programmer and marketing specialist too as well as just a board builder? Does he have the capital investment to get such a big undertaking underway?
it's a pretty crowded space with a lot of great players in it. RJM is wonderful, as is Musicom Lab. These guys have dedicated their lives to this stuff and that's really all they do is create these hardware solutions for pedalboards and racks. I don't know that I could bring something better to the table than what these "lifers" are doing and continue to do as they evolve.
@@wodenoftheangles3339 I'm not a accredited engineer with a degree, but neither are 95% of pedal and amp makers out there - but admittedly after the switching and hardware components I'm pretty much a MIDI novice in terms of programming and the entire software side to this stuff. As I told @_anthsucks these guys that build the switchers are really dug into it pretty well and don't really do much else other than switchers, in particular RJM, Musicom Lab. These guys have spent their professional lives developing these products and I would be foolish to think that I could supersede them in a reasonable timeline. I know analog guitar pedals well, and that's really where we do our best work at Vertex Effects (my pedal company). If I had the skill set or someone on staff that could do this, I would have no issue making the investment as we have the right infrastructure to sell these products between our RUclips channel and our dealership network around the world, but those guys are one in a million. I could always go the "contracted route" as other boutique companies do for switchers that you've probably know of, this is a fairly common practice, however, for now I'll leave the switchers to the switcher people and help support their business and workmanship the best I can.
Loved the video! Mason, are there any other products like the Parallelizer? I do believe that the Wetter Box by Gig Rig is one, and then there are the rackmount line mixers. But is there anything else that's pedalboard friendly?
It's not the same product. The Wetter Box, or even the Xotic X Blender (what preceded the Wetter Box), are only a single loop with no dedicated dry (just a mix knob, fully left is dry, fully right is wet, but most of the effects still have dry in them so...not really a wet/dry rig) - they're not really designed for a wet/dry/wet rig specifically. The Parallelizer is actually pretty small, smaller than you think, stereo, and has three stereo mixes and a separate dry mix and all the effects inside it should be set to kill dry or return only.
RJM isn't so easy to program for a bigger having worked with many that buy this switcher but can't use it. Equally Musicom is among the best software programs out there up there with RJM. Not sure that's so easy for a beginner either.
I love the disaster area product a lot. I love how small it is on my board as well. I learned a hard lesson with the electro harmonics super switcher. The power requirements on it are just enough to where if you put in the wrong plug you destroy your unit. I still have to send mine in for repair. I’ll probably end up buying another more expensive switcher before I do that though. The fact that they made this so that you could kill so easy is a little bit problematic. I really hope they put some type of safety measure in it at some point to keep it from dying so easily but mine is dead and one of these days I’ll send it to New York to get fixed. It’s a shame too because the only thing that it didn’t have that I wanted so bad was to be able to change the order of effects.
Hi Mason! Love the content on the channel. I got a PBC 10 and you got me intrigued with the buffer mods. Any chance you could send a diagram or instructions to perform these mod?
Great overview! I'm new to the loop switcher realm, but looking to see if there is a readily available solution to what I'm after. Apologies if this is a simple and easy answer, but I've been searching and can't seem to find a definitive solution. Hopefully you can help! I currently run a simple analog board starting with mono pedals then with the last couple of pedals being stereo. The last pedal is a TC Mimiq Stereo doubler which runs into two amps (Twin Reverb and HiWatt DR504). Below is my current chain: Volume > Tuner > Wah > Pitchfork > Hoof > Fuzz War > Plumes > Whirlwind Orange Box > Walrus Monument > OBNE Dark Star > Strymon Brigadier >> Mimiq >> Stereo out to Twin Reverb and DR504. My gain sound all comes from my fuzz pedals (EQD Hoof and DBA Fuzz War), near the front of my chain (after wah and pitchfork). I use both of those fuzz's interchangeably and sometime stack them. What I'd really like to do, if somehow possible, is be able to split those two fuzz pedals and run them individually to each amp. Problem is that there are mono pedals between the fuzz pedals and the stereo pedals. Is there is a loop switcher or device out there than can: 1) Accommodate splitting my signal into two chains (with the fuzz pedals at the front of each chain) 2) Both chains be identical to each other, as per above (both utilizing the same mono pedals at the same time) with the exception of the fuzz pedals (chain one would use the Hoof, chain two would use the fuzz war) 3) Activate/deactivate both fuzz pedals at the same time with one button 4) Stereo outs (chain one to the Twin Reverb, chain two to the Hiwatt) 5) Ideally in a small'ish package
@@VertexEffectsInc yes sorry I’m probably making it more confusing than necessary. Basically need to know if I can run parallel chains with both chains utilizing the same pedal at the same time.
Awsome video! I was wondering, if there is a switcher out there that can do the change order thing for 18 pedals? Im using the es8 for that now, but im still stuck with the order on some pedals bc they are in the same loop. Two es8's wont work in that way unfortunately. Would be great to hear your thoughts!
does anyone know what someone wanting to be a one man band would use if they had an amp with one input. but wanted to run say a microphone, guitar, and keyboard to it. and have a pedal to switch from instrument to instrument with only one running at the push of a button. ( so they don't interfere with each other) then use a looper and create a multiple layer song?
I’ve got a G3 on one board and PBC6X on another board. I think they are both top of their class and I really dig the RJM app. I wish GigRig would make the app more fully featured. Yeah it’s easier to program on the G3 hardware itself but the RJM app literally has just about any midi command you would want basically preprogrammed for you.
I am currently putting together my board and this channel has been a blessing! You have also answered all of my questions in the comments which I am really grateful for, so thank you! I have one more if you don’t mind 🙃 I have a Boss ES-8 and I’m wondering if it’s ok to put a pedal in the volume loop to gain an extra loop. Is this something you have done before?
Glad to help! You can put any pedal in the VP loop, doesn't need to be a volume pedal you just won't have an IA footswitch for it unless you program that or use an external switch of some kind.
Extremely new to this, but I’m not exactly concerned with programming specific patches, I just want a system that allows me to turn certain pedals on and off from one location. Would the EXH work well for this?
Are you going to make a video showing how to modify the switcher from 500k to 1meg? I wonder why that switcher was 2 Meg's and they changed it to 1 Meg because why not just keep it at 2megs because you get more high end. All the switchers use relays? But each switch will have signal loss because of the type of relay switch they are using for each loop has a relay switch that will have a drop in signal loss and the specifications of the switcher they often leave out this information in the specifications. It's not going to be a 1:1 ratio from input to output for each loop?
I'll check with Ron and Sheri before I do...I don't want to give them any headaches as a result. 2M isn't what the loading of most amps would be or the way your guitar pickups would see the amp input.
saving fora gig rig g3 right now!, you can also get an extension hub, which allows you to keep your pedals offstage, and if you want add more controllers onstage, its beyond the rest you mentioned. cant wait to get it. gig rig g3 all the way!
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What's your favorite switcher of the bunch? Or one that we didn't mention? Tell us below!
SWITCHERS FEATURED IN THIS VIDEO:
Gigrig G2 - shop.thegigrig.com/g2/
Gigrig G3 - shop.thegigrig.com/G3/
EHX Super Switcher - bit.ly/3dVlUR0
BOSS Es-5 - amzn.to/329kVY3
BOSS Es-8 - amzn.to/3dbs68m
Disaster Area DPC-8EZ - amzn.to/32d7eHC
Musicom Lab EFX-MKV - bit.ly/3uOOF8U
Musicom EFX LE II - bit.ly/3wWyqsm
RJM PBC6X - shop.rjmmusic.com/b-stock-mastermind-pbc-6x/
RJM PBC/10 - shop.rjmmusic.com/mastermind-pbc-10/
BOSS MS-3!!!
I have now G2 and I use Selah Quartz with it to program midi when I need more complex programming and display. I'm going to buy G3. G2 is so easy and fast to use and I'm really happy with it and when I get G3, I don't need that Selah Quarzt anymore.
@@mikeolivera149 not really the same thing...more of a multieffects unit.
@@peterpink5393 Nice!
Morningstar MC6
I learned a very important lesson in this video - I am too poor to buy a switcher
In time....or second hand!
@@VertexEffectsInc I thought when the kids grew up it would be my time.... now Grandkids. USED IT IS!
Learn to solder. I think i can build a basic one for around $25. Just no midi.
Lol!
Yes Brian me too way out of my budget. I can only afford cheap Chinese knock offs. Yea
G2 does a lot. It also has stereo outputs one of which is isolated with a transformer and allows the phase to be reversed (specifically designed for stereo amps). It provides 120 presets, which is less than some, but still quite a lot. The bank function is well thought out, you don’t have to navigate through loads of banks, hit the bank button and pick your desired bank by hitting switches 1 through 8. Allows you to use switches to turn presets on/off or you can assign a switch to turn any effect on/off (I.e. set your basic sounds to presets, then use switches to selectively add or subtract a desired effect). That’s way better than remembering a load of presets, although you can do that also. It’s ease of use doesn’t compromise functionality, it’s really well thought out. Lastly and most importantly it has top quality sound.
David, many of the switchers on here have that feature, and do it for less money with more options. Musicom Lab, RJM both have this feature as well with isolated outputs, switching matrix, etc. Sound quality is difficult for most to determine since they're not comparing switchers side-by-side. Most of them, in bypass at least, are all pretty good, not many discernible differences internally in terms of how the wiring of matrix might impact the tone. The buffers on them however are very different and The Gig Rig buffers aren't at the same level as the RJM or the Musicom Lab - they both have around 100-150 ohm output impedance. The Gig Rig version is around 1K (10x higher). That's not great for driving long lines without degradation of sound.
Just sold my ehx super switcher and purchased a boss es-8. I couldn't be happier. I was too limited on my ehx with only having 1 pc and 1 cc message at a time. Now I can program way more than I need on the es-8 and its super easy. Small learning curve but seriously not that bad.
Is the manual shit? I've heard so
I posted this in a reply here but I think it’s worth mentioning. I have had the Boss ES-8 for several years now and even though there are 8 loops I came to the point where I needed an extra loop and I had run out. It was after a bit of consideration that I realized that my 2 midi controlled pedals, Strymon Timeline and Bigsky, do not need to run through the two stereo loops and could actually just go in the chain on the out of the es-8 switcher. This would free up two additional stereo channels to use. How I then turned the Strymon pedals on and off was by simply always sending a midi command to each pedal since I use the ES-8 in song set mode using presets. When I want to turn the delay or reverb off I send a midi command from the es-8 to that pedal to change to a “dry” preset I’ve saved on that pedal. This in turn means the pedals wet effect is not affecting the signal so it’s the same as if I had turned the loop off. Hope this helps someone. This in theory would work with any switcher that had midi functionality. Great Video!
Thank you. All I’m looking for is to be able to switch from rhythm to lead on stage with an added boost and delay with one click instead of two.
That may not sound like a big deal but I play and sing so that one less click would make a huge difference!
Boss es 5 has boost built in unit
@@Juan_M_Juarezthanks
I’ve preordered a g3 atom for my wet/dry/wet board. I’ll use it for all my stereo pedals (6 stereo loops), and for the front end of my dry amp I’ll be adding a morning star ML5 (5 mono loops) which is super compact and can be slaved to the g3.
Cool! What are you using for the parallel mixer for the stereo wet effects?
@@VertexEffectsInc the g3 has at least one parallel mixer, but honestly I may run an impure wet (some dry) in order to run delay into reverb without loosing the initial sound (before the delays are happening) in the reverb. But I’ll play with doing the delay and reverb in parallel with kill dry too... I am also interested in running a couple delays in parallel though.
@@jessedaly7847 right but you can only have one effect in the mixer that's fully wet.
@@VertexEffectsInc I'm not sure I understand what you mean here, frankly i'm a decently smart guy with a math degree, but the whole parallel killdry signal chain thing can get pretty freaky pretty fast and I'm not sure I really get it all the time. But since the Atom allows you to change the mixer configuration and even pedal order per preset it's going to be a great platform for figuring out how to do this stuff, and experiment without having to rewire my board every time I'd like to try a different approach. I would have thought that you could run 2 stereo effects in parallel both in kill dry, being fed by the slave out of my dry amp and get a decent result, but maybe that's not what you are getting at? In any case I have a lovely analog stereo phaser, as well as a stereo tube tremolo, in addition to a pair of stereo delays and reverb, oh yeah and a chorus/flanger... So obviously i'll be having a less than pure killdry situation going on downstream of my dry amp. Now if I had stereo dry amps AND stereo wet amps...
@@jessedaly7847 you'd have to break the loops somehow, similarly to how you would do a 4CM set up, but fed by the line out from your dry amp into the switcher after you've already exited the switcher with your dry path. The line level input would feed your mixer with your 100% wet effects set to kill dry, however, I don't think you can have multiple parallel mixes in this unit and I'm also not sure if your trem or phaser go 100% wet, a lot of them don't and aren't designed to be "return only" effects like you'd see in a mix bus.
I didn't see it mentioned but the best decision I've made regarding pedal purchases was the Boss MS-3. It's saved so much space on my board and it takes away all tap dancing I would have to do so it helps me perform better than being stuck behind my board the whole time. There's a handful of times I've taken some pedals off the board because some of the onboard effects sounded better than the ones I was using. I also like that it helps me save space on my board so I don't have to carry around a huge board. The MS-3 comes at my highest recommendation. It'll never leave my board.
Also, I know it's more of a Multi-Effects Processor but I bought it because of the Loop Switching elements. The only downside to the MS-3 is the ability to not be able to switch your loop orders but that's not a huge deal to me personally.
Because it's a multi effects I didn't mention it here. Check some of our early rig build videos and it's on there!
@@VertexEffectsInc For sure I totally get it. Just wanted to throw that out there for anyone reading these comments that may not wanna go as big with the other switchers like me. I got it as a switching system first and an effects unit 2nd
I’d like to take a moment to acknowledge Mason’s articulation and the video production values; this is great content. 👍
I am new to the world of midi, and I ordered EHX Super Switcher few days ago. Your suggestion makes me confident on my decision!! Thanks Mason
Have fun! Good luck with the build!
You mentioned around 18:55 that RJM does not allow to change the order of the effects, but I'm pretty sure that RJM PBC 6X does (while PBC 10 does not):
"What’s new about this model?
The big new feature is the ability to rearrange loop order. Your effects can automatically be placed in a different order for each preset. Aside from that, it’s smaller and less expensive than the original Mastermind PBC, making it more suitable for smaller pedalboards."
Great video, I'm a Musicomlab user myself, great piece of equipment.
I don’t think anything is said in the video to disqualify what you said about the RJM, we talked about both models, and you’re correct only the PBC6X has that switching matrix.
@@VertexEffectsInc around 18:50 while comparing PBC 6X to EFX V there's a quote "and the fact that you can change order with that same matrix is really really helpful, the RJM equivalent doesn't allow you to change the order and the positioning of the effects"
@@me0_0irl I think that quote was talking about the EFX V that's the equal to the RJM PBC10. The MKV has 9 loops and a volume loop, the RJM has 10. The EFXLE is the equivalent to the PBC6x
@@VertexEffectsInc got it!
For those wondering about the buffer specs of the Disaster Area, apparently they updated the manual info and it has an input impedance 1M ohm (which is sweet) and a selectable output impedance of 560 ohms up to 33k ohms (that last one a whopping number you will probably never need).
Cool, thanks for this!
I watched this video over a year ago and it has been a great help. I got me a super switcher and it has been perfect to use for my synth pedals. The boost on it is killer.
Great!
This is the best review of midi switchers I have seen. Ever.
Glad it was helpful!
Great Video Mason, you're turning me into a Pedalboard Expert!!!
Glad to hear it!
Happy that I stumbled on this video. 2 years on and still so many options. I have a VERY unique requirement that will require a lot of interesting programming. Can’t wait to dig in further as I finally rebuild my rig.
Surprised you didn’t even pick 1 do MorningStars switchers. They are VERY well loved and almost always on back order.
This guy is a fantastic communicator. Really nice job!
Thanks for the rundown. Went with the Boss ES-8, because second-hand units are really good value in UK, around £300 - which gives you a lot for the price of just 3 cups of coffee ;) The Disaster Area is about that price new, ever here. Might have gone ES-5, except they only go for £40-50 less than the ES-8. I guess people value the small size of the ES-5. But I need a couple of stereo loops for loopers, and delay/reverb. Chase Bliss Mood, Cosmos / Polymoon, Mercury X.
As a Musicom EFX user, I can’t praise it enough. I’ve used switchers from Disaster Area, One Control, Boss, and Carl Martin; all of these switchers are nice but I found these switchers to be lacking as my needs/knowledge grew.
Doc, you classify this as the tier 3 type switcher, and I agree, but fellow watchers I think it could have been put in each tier. It’s incredibly user friendly. So go buy one, you won’t regret it.
Great video, Doc!
*edit :: for context I sit between person 2 and 3. Tech enough to get by and nerdy enough to dive in and learn on my own.
Well said, I agree!
Joyo has an 8 loop switcher for like ~$150. Been using it for years and it works perfectly for me
Great!
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all this so well, I really appreciate it. I've been fence-sitting with regard to getting a switcher but know that I've really needed one. Your clear explanation and evaluation has been a great help! I can see from this that the Boss ES-8 will be perfect for my needs, so that's what I'll go with. You can bet I'll be shopping at Vertex as well, cheers!
First time hearing about Musicom. I am one of those who wants to write out the entire show and be able to switch forward through the songs and their various parts sequentially. This will include both in-front-of-amps devices as well as stereo backline effects in a wet/dry/wet system. Up to now I have been primarily focused on the RJM Mastermind GT22. But, being that no-one makes exactly what I want, I think that, at the end of the day, I need to have everything I want/need custom-made to my specs (cleaner/easier end-product). To be able to tell/show others what I am after so it can be made so that my job during a performance is simplified to an extreme level. Literally just the ability to shift forward through the entire show with just one button, plus some expression pedals for volume, wah, and modulation controls (speed and depth) for more than one effect/device at a time. The next concern is how many wires are running from the front of the stage to the backline. Ideally, 2. One for power and one for AOIP/MIDI sends/receives (DANTE/MADI?). I have other ideas, but they do not apply to this discussion (EXT LED).
Sounds like a fun project!
Thx Mason! I use G3. I like the interface and so far there hasn't been anything I want to do that I have been able to do. That said it is pricey and it may not be for everyone. Morningstar engineering has a lot of good products as well. I especially like their computer interface that makes programming super simple ...
Spot on about Boss units. They also come with software
Boss is great, easy to use.
Mason PBC6x does allow reordering of loops. I’m copying and pasting this from the manual. Matrix switching that allows reordering of loops.
I don't think the video disputes that. Only the PBC10 can't reorder loops. I say here the same switching matrix is in the GigRig, RJM, and Boss.
I watched video again your right. At the end you’re putting them head to head. But, you slip in RJM equivalent which would be the PCB 10.
@@johncruz9357 not sure I understand what you're saying
@@VertexEffectsInc rig dr picks
My Super Switcher is on the way. I've always been a Fender amp with compression and a Blues Driver/ Tube Screamer kinda guy. Been getting more pedals and it's getting annoying turning one off and one on at the same time now that I have about 8 pedals. Looking forward to hitting one button and having a whole new loop at my feet! Thanks for this video.
Very cool! Enjoy!
A little surprised you didn't dig into the EFX LE II. Great buffers and buffer control. Loop reordering, parallel mixing etc.
It's mentioned in there I think...we talk about a few different models from Musicom Lab.
Nope. You mention the V but not the LE II.
Thank you for this! I think the ES-8 might be the one for me. The Musicomlab unit I tried a couple of years ago was to difficult to program from the unit.
I like RJM stuff, I have the Effects Gizmo full stereo version rack mount with pedal shelves, 2 amp gizmos for stereo half stacks, and the Mastermind GT10 midi controller. A pedalboard switcher for stereo rig would require a ton of cable length between the amps and pedalboard, and none had enough stereo TRS loops for my signal pathing. With the rack setup, only a midi foot controller is needed, and some midi controllable pedals like reverb and delay and wah and midi volume modules for both amp fx loops. May seem overkill but my setup is for a live rig as the only guitarist in a metal band, and I use clean tones too... so I run two amps in stereo with a doubler and both fx loops with stereo pedals. It took a ton of research and studying manuals, but a mono rig would have been wayyyy cheaper and less complicated, but not the sound I want.
Thanks for sharing!
Gigrig is a fantastic product, Dan really runs a great company. Their MIDI14 was great sounding, lots of functionally. The next gen G2 took it to another level, but the MIDI14 still could be figured out by new users.
I suppose we'll see when the G3 really gets out there. I think the G2 has value for a lot of users as outlined here.
Absolutely incredible. Thank you.
Thanks Howard!!!
Couldn’t agree more Howard 👏
I paid for a switcher then saw this video was about to drop and was waiting to see something I didn't know about be mentioned more suitable. Still pretty happy that I'm picking up a second hand Musicomlabs efx mk3 tomorrow. Looking forward to see what I can get out of it.
They're great switchers!
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks Mason, love the content and learn alot.
@@bjlatter I'm so glad!
All videos are Truely so informative. Can’t quit watching.🤘🤘🤘
I appreciate that!
Just finished putting together a board around a PBC 6X and then put all of the songs, set lists and presets into it, ready for a solo gig this week. It is the gold standard. If you can afford one the RJM stuff is the industry standard. Cry once, buy the best.
Yes indeed!
@@VertexEffectsInc for the record, I owned one of the other ones you recommended and while it was great, it then developed faults. It was fully repaired under warranty, even though it was 3 years old, but I felt I couldn’t trust it. Hence, the importance of buying best first time.
Saw your past video on switchers and now I'm thinking of getting one so I don't have to tap dance around all my pedals. Only problem is, I'm having trouble finding one that is compact enough to fit on my pedalboard, but has at least 5 switches, can accomdoate most of my pedals, can switch the clean/dirty channel on my Mesa Boogie Mark V, and can work with the "4 cable method" of FX In/Out of my amp for my effects and noise gate. My current setup looks like Tuner>Noise Gate>Synth>Digitech>Volume>Wah>Compressor>Big Muff>Phaser>OD>Front of Amp and then Effects Send>Tri-Chorus>Delay>Reverb 1>Reverb 2>Loop Station>Effects Return. Any suggestions?
Well...you tuner doesn't need to be in the loop. Nor does the Volume and wah. Those can be before. If any of your pedals have MIDI like the Chorus, Delay, or Reverb, they can live out of the looper as well and be controlled via MIDI. RJM is my favorite.
I opted purchase the Voodoo Labs PX-8, which has met my needs well… up until I added Iridium and Collider to my rig.
It has MIDI capability but I cannot figure out how to do that yet 😞.
Great content as always Sir.
If you put your ability to explain things to simpletons like myself into a switcher, you’d score a win.
Have you tried reaching out to Voodoo Lab?
Thank you so much! Your review is truly comprehensive! Stay well!
Glad it was helpful!
As a "customer #1" this is a fantastic review. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Really practical for anyone! 🙏🏽
Thanks for watching!
I use a BYOC Super8 switcher. Good for what I do and it doubles as a great project which you've gotta build yourself. If I was placing it near any product, it is similar to the EHX. Simple and effective, and a fun build for the tinkerers out there. If I was upgrading to anything, and I don't see it happening but one never knows, I would go with the Boss ES-8. You can do so much with that fantastic piece of gear.
Thanks for watching Robert!!!
Funny I never noticed the Super8 Switcher project on BYOC. Really cool device, but I’d lose my mind trying to remember what’s in Preset bank B-3. Thanks for mentioning it - looking at the schematic gave me a much better idea of what’s going on inside these beasties.
@@chipsterb4946 all you gotta do is tap on that preset and it turns the "On" pedals LED. So you know what is on. I only wish it was easier to cycle through presets and back to switching on/off mode.
Finally the video I was waiting for.... please explain how to use a 6 or 8 loop switcher when you have 12 pedals (if you can). Maybe using stuffs as the strymon timeline just with the midi? Or leave some pedals out of the loops? Which pedals can stay out of the loops? I saw your friend Daniel Pedalboard from Virginia in the “Mastering your church Pedalboard” episode and he had an Es8 with more than 8 pedals. Sorry for my English, I really love your videos thank you.
The MIDI pedals can be used outside of the loops and controlled via MIDI. We did this with Rhett Shull and others with their switcher rigs as you can change settings and turn pedals on/off without being in a loop of the switcher. Ordinarily this would be time-based pedals like delay and reverb, modulation, any sort of looper, things like that.
Nice video very informative. I'm a big fan of the Boss MS-3 since I just don't need anything more and the built effects sound great. A simple budget midi controller without loops is Disaster Area Design DMC -7 or similar which you can pickup for less than 100 US used. It all comes down to budget and purpose.
Nice! Thanks for watching!
I've been looking at the Joyo PXL PRO. Has two triggers for channel switching, etc. (four on the PXL LIVE), and runs about $165.
I suspect it's not on par with these in the video.
@@VertexEffectsInc True, but not everyone has $300+ to spend on a loop switcher.
This channel is the ultimate resource. Thank you for all the amazing info
I have a Disaster Area DPC-5 Gen. 3. It's pretty nice, doesn't take up much space, and midi controls my Zoom MS-70 CDR straight out of the box. Super cool!
Nice! Thanks for watching!
Great video! I have been using ES-8 for years! Too bad it needs a midi/usb cable to create presets on a computer, but interface is not that bad!
Yes, great unit
Excellent recommendations!! Thanks, Mason! What about the Morningstar system? I would like some review at some point, because as everyone else I know you know your stuff, and we trust you! Again, thanks for all these videos you put out there!!
Well, all their stuff is usually sold out out of that says anything.
Thank you! I am comparative shopping and your insight is very helpful. I am tech savvy after 25 years in IT and Devry University. Thanks again...
Glad it was helpful!
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Joyo PXL loop switchers. Very affordable and seems to be one of the best deals, at least on the surface.
I haven't seen any in person
I've got a board with the Boss ES-8. I love it but there's two main drawbacks. (1) It's very big and takes up fully 40% of my pedal board area, and patch panel on the back is tight and will only handle the smallest of straight connectors. (2) It will only address and send single PC messages to 8 devices and/or two CC messages per device. I mean 8 total MIDI packets per preset. If I have my two full boards, one pre-amp and one board in the FX loop, that becomes a limitation and requires reserving a PRESET on each back to do a RESET operation to shut things off. This is a very clumsy workaround. One Question: since it takes up so much real estate, is their any suggested method for creating an umbilical cable to separate the switcher from the pedalboard without a huge collection of cables. I've been thinking about DB25 break out boards connected by an off-the-shelf DB25 serial cable. Any thoughts?
I guess my question is what 8 loop switcher is smaller, technically it's 9 loops with the VP insert? You could get some broadcast cables snakes which are really low capacitance and potentially do it, but I don't think it'd be wise.
Thank you for this!! I was looking at the Boss 8. I’m definitely dude #2 lol. 👍
Perfecto!!!
learned a lot here. thank you. I just bought a tri parallel mixer from ehx, which will become my switcher.
cool!
The RJM stuff is top notch!! I love their switchers! And also a great company!
One of the best
I just got into switchers. I got one used, a simple by OneControl for $35. Another guy is sending me his Moen GEC8 JR Looper/Switcher, and if I like it I can keep it for $50. But I'm looking at a bigger board so I can fit the Electro-Harmonix one on it and all the pedals that I want to use, without overcrowding my board. This video was very helpful!
Glad it helped!
This was very helpful. Setting up a studio board and doing comparative research on all the switchers available. I'm advanced on programming and not terribly interested in the "simplicity" approach, but absolutely needed as many loops as I could get. I also absolutely needed a robust computer editor for presets. That took the Gigrig product off the table, unfortunately. Your discussion sealed the MusicomLab EFX MK-VI for me. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Incredible video thanks! So glad to hear about smaller switchers and different brands I hadn’t heard of
Would you still put separate input and output buffers on either side of a more simple true bypass switcher like the gigrig quartermaster?
Yes, buffers on the input and output always!
Why did Voodoo Labs switching gear not make the list? Do you consider it inferior?
Question: I have 4 amps. I use different effect pedals with each amp. (I think about this as 4 different "rigs.") Is there a switcher, which will enable me to include all 4 of my rigs? (The switchers I've seen contemplate only 2 amp outputs, but I have 4 different amps I want to include in my switcher.) How can I do this?
Well thank you for taking the time to sort all this out and it's great to hear it from somebody so experienced. I do have a takeaway question, I would like to place more than one pedal in my Loop and it seems most of these are designed for individual pedals / Loop. My question would be Can I stack three or four together anytime Loop if I chose to?
Great video! Will you be making a video of your WET DRY WET PBC6X rig? I have a PBC6X myself and have been wondering what the best way to go about routing this setup is? I’m having issues with isolation/grounding issues right now. Not sure how to remedy this and hoping you’ll talk about it.
Yes, I will be! I'm not using the PBC to do the Wet/Dry/Wet...it's not great for that internally.
does the es-8 have isolated outputs that are phase reversible? of all of the switchers out there.. this seems like one of the most important things for a switcher to have but I'm finding a lot of them lack it
No and no. You would need to have something like a Lehle P split on top of one amp to isolate it and have polarity control. You could also get around the polarity thing by having one inverted speaker cable if the amps didn’t match up. If you kept them on the same grounds you may not need the galvanic isolation
Have you done a video on your Wet-Dry-Wet Build? Would be interested in seeing that. Thanks, this was VERY INFORMATIVE. I'm in the Contemplation zone right now, but know I will be getting a Switcher this Year, Sometime. Also, now you have to Look at the Brand New Carl Martin?
Not yet, working on it slowly. I've seen the new Carl Martin, it's not quite like these, more like the Voodoo Lab DingBat series stuff.
Great informative vid as always. After having an es8 (which shit the bed just out of warranty. 😭) and now es5 I can defo say the boss ones are pretty versatile! Would like to get my hands on a g3 atom at some stage.
Nice! But bummer on the Boss!
I watched this to try and find a simple switcher that would make my life easier, but these things are all crazy. There must be something simpler than all of these that just lets you turn on one or more pedals at a time thus taking them out of the loop when you are not using them.
Literally all of them do this. The GigRig switchers are easiest to do what you’re after. No computer or app needed
As long as I've played guitar 25yrs... I've never had or considered a switcher. I run a traditional stomp box setup, into a M13, into Fx loop of my amp. My question is can a "switcher" recall different settings/dials from your analogue pedals, for each preset? Ex: for one I have my Earthquaker Palisades set to OD mode low gain, then on another switcher preset have it set to palisades fuzz heavy gain? Or can it not do that, and when the switcher calls up that pedal it's stuck to whatever dials you have it on? What about a digital pedal, like a HX stomp? can you have the switcher call up different fx and settings from the Stomp, and assign them to different presets on the switcher?
The Switcher can't adjust settings on an analog pedal, but it could for your M13 or HX Stomp.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks for the reply and clarification Mason! It would be a game changer if it could recall analogue pedals... I got so many analogue pedals with so many flavors in the box, like the EQD Palisades having so many different drives, or an EQD data corruptor, 3 settings I love on there, but the downside is having to quickly dial in those different sounds from the same pedal... within a song while performing live? very difficult, then with 2-3 pedals lol nope. looks like digital midi stomps hooked up to a switcher has amazing potential. which is why I love the m13 so much with stomps. with my M13 i set each row to different songs or set lists. I can have the same effects like delays on top of each other, but different settings.
Tom just FYI - there are also a number of pedals that have an analogue signal path, look and behave like old school pedals with knobs and switches, and can be used exactly like the rest of your analog pedals, but they also have a MIDI “brain” that allows you to change presets (the knobs generally won’t move, but the sound will change). Just to give one example (there are dozens) based on your example above for wanting to flip from low gain to fuzz, the Chase Bliss ‘Brothers’ has two channels of boost/drive/fuzz and you can select any of those, or combination thereof, using a switcher (and also changing your M13 or HX Stomp preset at the same time with one press of the switcher). I don’t have any affiliation (I do own a Brothers), and there are loads of peels like that to chose from now.
@@onenotesolo256 thanks for the info!
@@tomzeto actually there is a auch device coming that you are talking about. It’s called the „gecko tool“
It basically lets you motorize any knob on any pedal or amp, a total game changer. What you can do then is control these knobs with exp or with pre programmed presets… total game changer, can’t wait to get mine haha
Question. I want to take all my pedals off board and put in rack drawers where they’ll stay. It’s 6 pedals between the guitar and front of AxeFxIIXL+, pretty simple right? My floorboard will just be my MFC101 and a pedal switcher IF I understand this switcher or loop switcher thing correctly. The routing and/or things needed have me pretty fn stumped.
1- I need some kind of loop/switcher right, but do I need something in the rack like an interface or a device that communicates with the AxeFx and the floor switcher?
2- Can a switcher have a “Y” function so that I can control the pedals independently in my rack but switch over to my Fryette power amp with that same loop of pedals? Out of the 6 pedals I have I only ever run one at a time so no real loops happening I just need to control them from the floor.
Thanks so much for any and all help provided
not sure if i'm understanding your question correctly, but i think if you wanted to keep your pedals in the drawer you'd need something like the Morningstar MC6 on the floor and then the ML10x in the drawer (amongst some other options). The switchers in this video would be on the pedalboard in front of you.
just got the voodoo gcx and ground control pro for that exact reason. Love it
Gigrig G3 + gigrig extension kit could help
I'm pretty much limited to the disaster area switchers unless I want to have to change my board. I wish there were more super compact (depth wise) switchers
Try the PCB6x you can get up to 11 loops using the stereo loops in mono.
For European PPL check out the G-Lab GSC 4, it has a very cool display and isnt that expensive
Are they still made?
@@VertexEffectsInc not 100% sure. I got one and it's amazing, you find a lot on reverb even down to 350. However I probably go for the disaster area sooner or later because of space.
Mason, a question for you. I'm considering the RJM PBC6X and am concerned about the input buffer. I'll be using a fuzz that hates a buffer in front of it. Do I need to change anything in order to not let the input buffer of the switcher affect the fuzz pedal?
You can bypass the buffer on any fuzz preset - no problem
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks Mason!
@@VibhasPatil anytime!
I would have included the One Control OC10 as well. Good Value for money and as easy to program as the G2, Midi functions are limited.
I would actually say functionally, it's very similar to the G2
The disaster seems like a sweet little guy and so compact. The g3 of that thing can make so much, and you can do even more with the tuner jack and turned it into a multi jack.
VERTEX, How can you use a Fractal FM9 floorboard processor as an Effect switching system by using the MIDI ports? What I mean is you can assign the footswitches on the FM9 to a MIDI channel message number that will go to an MIDI effect switching I/O Unit. This will save pedalboard space by using the FM9 as an effect processor unit as well as as a MIDI effect switching unit to switch off/on analog guitar pedals, which will be serving a "dual purpose". I don't want to buy an effects switching system because they are expensive which you can buy a fractal FM9 and use it as a dual purpose by using it as a MIDI effects Loop switching unit.
Should be possible...I don't see why you couldn't, I've done this with the Line 6 HX Stomp - its competition.
Hey mason. Do you have a video of using an hx stomp with a switcher. I want to run my dirt and wah in front of the amp and then the HX stomp and specular tempest among other pedal in the amp effects loop. Just use the switcher for midi functions on the pedals in the loop.
Same, I have a hx stomp and analog pedals like overdrives. I’ll be acquiring a boss es8 soon. I know I’ll be able to switch between patches, but because there is a small noise lag switching between them, I will also want to know if I would be able to change snapshots with the es8, but I can’t find any videos or information about it
This is going to be good, can you make a video on how to clean out dirty pots on volume pedals?
Contact cleaner, DeOxit D5 all the way!
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks you da man!
@@connorm.6253 Anytime!
Really interesting. Thinking about getting a switcher and probably the boss ES8. My only concern if finding the info if loops can be routed only to a specific amp out (using 2 amps with specific effects hitting each of them and no effect loop on these amps). Maybe you have that info and a way to do it. In any case thanks for the video !
I’d like to point out that on the Gigrig G3s (both G3 and G3 Atom) can do parallel routing and can flip the phase on every loop, plus isolated outputs, I’d say that the G3s are like a 2.4 type switcher, it is capable of things the Boss switchers can do, and but it isn’t as advanced as the RJM Stuff.
what exactly can rjm do that g3 cannot?
The G3 will be interesting to see when it's here in the USA. I don't see them much here and I know they're made in fairly small lots - not often used by the rig building community. I'm interested to see it in action.
@@efsglass the programming side and the software side and MIDI is much more detailed and fully open to the customer to optimize and customize beyond anything that's out there. If the PBC10 had the same matrix as the G3 (and the G3 and RJM PBC6 have the same matrix that's in the Boss ES-8 BTW) I think it would be a great move on the part of RJM. The G3 looks to be good...again not many of them out there yet to really know. The RJM is the professional gold standard, has been for many years in the pro circles - for touring pro's it's the top choice.
I have a G3. It offers 12 loops, with the ability to set any/all pairs to stereo. You can also use the Aux/Tuner loop as a 13th pre-buffer loop. You can reorder all loops regardless of mono/stereo status. The MIDI capabilities are light years beyond G2. G3 also allows you to put the signal into parallel before any loop, and rejoin to series after any loop (or not at all). It also allows you to program trails for devices to allow effect tails to keep sounding after patch changes. I wish the reviewer had read the specs for G3 a bit more carefully. He kind of lumped the G2 and G3 together, and there are significant improvements in G3, especially with MIDI. I’m not saying it’s necessarily a better choice for every need, but the implication in this video is that it’s only suitable for entry level users, when in fact it’s as powerful and capable as anything available.
@@mysticfig exactly yea, g3 is way more advanced than g2!
Do you personally re-order your effects, and how important to you personally is a loop switcher's ability to do this?
Not critical...most people never end using this feature
You mentioned something in the beginning that has got me thinking...
Will you be manufacturing your own switcher at any point? And if not, what would be the reason for not going ahead with something like that?
Is he an electronic engineer, software programmer and marketing specialist too as well as just a board builder? Does he have the capital investment to get such a big undertaking underway?
it's a pretty crowded space with a lot of great players in it. RJM is wonderful, as is Musicom Lab. These guys have dedicated their lives to this stuff and that's really all they do is create these hardware solutions for pedalboards and racks. I don't know that I could bring something better to the table than what these "lifers" are doing and continue to do as they evolve.
@@wodenoftheangles3339 I'm not a accredited engineer with a degree, but neither are 95% of pedal and amp makers out there - but admittedly after the switching and hardware components I'm pretty much a MIDI novice in terms of programming and the entire software side to this stuff. As I told @_anthsucks these guys that build the switchers are really dug into it pretty well and don't really do much else other than switchers, in particular RJM, Musicom Lab. These guys have spent their professional lives developing these products and I would be foolish to think that I could supersede them in a reasonable timeline. I know analog guitar pedals well, and that's really where we do our best work at Vertex Effects (my pedal company). If I had the skill set or someone on staff that could do this, I would have no issue making the investment as we have the right infrastructure to sell these products between our RUclips channel and our dealership network around the world, but those guys are one in a million. I could always go the "contracted route" as other boutique companies do for switchers that you've probably know of, this is a fairly common practice, however, for now I'll leave the switchers to the switcher people and help support their business and workmanship the best I can.
This was a great vid. Thanks man!
Anytime!
Loved the video! Mason, are there any other products like the Parallelizer? I do believe that the Wetter Box by Gig Rig is one, and then there are the rackmount line mixers. But is there anything else that's pedalboard friendly?
It's not the same product. The Wetter Box, or even the Xotic X Blender (what preceded the Wetter Box), are only a single loop with no dedicated dry (just a mix knob, fully left is dry, fully right is wet, but most of the effects still have dry in them so...not really a wet/dry rig) - they're not really designed for a wet/dry/wet rig specifically. The Parallelizer is actually pretty small, smaller than you think, stereo, and has three stereo mixes and a separate dry mix and all the effects inside it should be set to kill dry or return only.
@@VertexEffectsInc got it. Thanks!!
Hmmm... not so sure about this. The gig rig and RJM would fit into all three categories. Musicomlab efx-ME is fine for person one and two...
RJM isn't so easy to program for a bigger having worked with many that buy this switcher but can't use it. Equally Musicom is among the best software programs out there up there with RJM. Not sure that's so easy for a beginner either.
I love the disaster area product a lot. I love how small it is on my board as well. I learned a hard lesson with the electro harmonics super switcher. The power requirements on it are just enough to where if you put in the wrong plug you destroy your unit. I still have to send mine in for repair. I’ll probably end up buying another more expensive switcher before I do that though. The fact that they made this so that you could kill so easy is a little bit problematic. I really hope they put some type of safety measure in it at some point to keep it from dying so easily but mine is dead and one of these days I’ll send it to New York to get fixed. It’s a shame too because the only thing that it didn’t have that I wanted so bad was to be able to change the order of effects.
Thanks for watching and sharing!
@@VertexEffectsInc And thank you for being so knowledgeable and helpful!
I'm looking for one that won't break the band, thoughts one the Blackstar live logic 6-button or MeloAudio midi commander?
Hi Mason! Love the content on the channel. I got a PBC 10 and you got me intrigued with the buffer mods. Any chance you could send a diagram or instructions to perform these mod?
I'm going to check with Ron and Sherri before I release anything! I don't want them to have a bunch of "tone vigilantes" on their hands LOL
Great overview! I'm new to the loop switcher realm, but looking to see if there is a readily available solution to what I'm after. Apologies if this is a simple and easy answer, but I've been searching and can't seem to find a definitive solution. Hopefully you can help!
I currently run a simple analog board starting with mono pedals then with the last couple of pedals being stereo. The last pedal is a TC Mimiq Stereo doubler which runs into two amps (Twin Reverb and HiWatt DR504). Below is my current chain:
Volume > Tuner > Wah > Pitchfork > Hoof > Fuzz War > Plumes > Whirlwind Orange Box > Walrus Monument > OBNE Dark Star > Strymon Brigadier >> Mimiq >> Stereo out to Twin Reverb and DR504.
My gain sound all comes from my fuzz pedals (EQD Hoof and DBA Fuzz War), near the front of my chain (after wah and pitchfork). I use both of those fuzz's interchangeably and sometime stack them. What I'd really like to do, if somehow possible, is be able to split those two fuzz pedals and run them individually to each amp. Problem is that there are mono pedals between the fuzz pedals and the stereo pedals.
Is there is a loop switcher or device out there than can:
1) Accommodate splitting my signal into two chains (with the fuzz pedals at the front of each chain)
2) Both chains be identical to each other, as per above (both utilizing the same mono pedals at the same time) with the exception of the fuzz pedals (chain one would use the Hoof, chain two would use the fuzz war)
3) Activate/deactivate both fuzz pedals at the same time with one button
4) Stereo outs (chain one to the Twin Reverb, chain two to the Hiwatt)
5) Ideally in a small'ish package
I'm not fully following the signal path, but RJM is the most sophisticated, perhaps contact RJM?
@@VertexEffectsInc yes sorry I’m probably making it more confusing than necessary. Basically need to know if I can run parallel chains with both chains utilizing the same pedal at the same time.
FWIW - the RJM PBC/6X also has a built-in tuner, which could be an extra space saver.
Boss ES-8 is what I’m running. I really wish they made a 12. I don’t like swapping pedals on and off my board for different bands.
You could always expand loops with something like a Voodoo Lab HEX.
@@VertexEffectsInc along with the boss?
@@DiamondLifer yes
@@VertexEffectsInc cool. Thanks I’ll look into that.
@@DiamondLifer Good luck!
Awsome video! I was wondering, if there is a switcher out there that can do the change order thing for 18 pedals? Im using the es8 for that now, but im still stuck with the order on some pedals bc they are in the same loop. Two es8's wont work in that way unfortunately. Would be great to hear your thoughts!
No, not that I know of. Not 18 pedals. I think the G3 can do 12. RJM can do 10.
does anyone know what someone wanting to be a one man band would use if they had an amp with one input. but wanted to run say a microphone, guitar, and keyboard to it. and have a pedal to switch from instrument to instrument with only one running at the push of a button. ( so they don't interfere with each other) then use a looper and create a multiple layer song?
You need the Radial Voco Loco!
Thanks mate. Fantastic information and very thorough.
Glad it was helpful!
Why do so many get the buffer wrong? Is there a different school of thought or is it a cost saving measure?
Most designers aren't rig builders or guitar players and often build to the lowest common denominator.
I’ve got a G3 on one board and PBC6X on another board. I think they are both top of their class and I really dig the RJM app. I wish GigRig would make the app more fully featured. Yeah it’s easier to program on the G3 hardware itself but the RJM app literally has just about any midi command you would want basically preprogrammed for you.
I am currently putting together my board and this channel has been a blessing! You have also answered all of my questions in the comments which I am really grateful for, so thank you!
I have one more if you don’t mind 🙃
I have a Boss ES-8 and I’m wondering if it’s ok to put a pedal in the volume loop to gain an extra loop. Is this something you have done before?
Glad to help! You can put any pedal in the VP loop, doesn't need to be a volume pedal you just won't have an IA footswitch for it unless you program that or use an external switch of some kind.
@@VertexEffectsInc Great! Thank you
I totally agree!
I think a general discussion of IC Matrix switching vs. Relay switching would be useful.
I think we'd loose quite a few people on that LOL
@@VertexEffectsInc I think there might be more people interested (and able to understand at least in part) in this topic.
Extremely new to this, but I’m not exactly concerned with programming specific patches, I just want a system that allows me to turn certain pedals on and off from one location. Would the EXH work well for this?
Sounds like you want a switcher...the EHX is the lower end. I'd say Boss would be a better starting place.
Great, great lesson... well learned. Also thanks for your nice and very understandable english... I'm Italian. Thumb up and subscribed. ❤
Excellent clear review. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Are you going to make a video showing how to modify the switcher from 500k to 1meg? I wonder why that switcher was 2 Meg's and they changed it to 1 Meg because why not just keep it at 2megs because you get more high end. All the switchers use relays? But each switch will have signal loss because of the type of relay switch they are using for each loop has a relay switch that will have a drop in signal loss and the specifications of the switcher they often leave out this information in the specifications. It's not going to be a 1:1 ratio from input to output for each loop?
I'll check with Ron and Sheri before I do...I don't want to give them any headaches as a result. 2M isn't what the loading of most amps would be or the way your guitar pickups would see the amp input.
saving fora gig rig g3 right now!, you can also get an extension hub, which allows you to keep your pedals offstage, and if you want add more controllers onstage, its beyond the rest you mentioned. cant wait to get it. gig rig g3 all the way!
Most of the switchers will allow this function, even 15 years ago.