What's your favorite switcher of the bunch? Or one that we didn't mention? Tell us below! SWITCHERS FEATURED IN THIS VIDEO: Gigrig G2 - shop.thegigrig.com/g2/ Gigrig G3 - shop.thegigrig.com/G3/ EHX Super Switcher - bit.ly/3dVlUR0 BOSS Es-5 - amzn.to/329kVY3 BOSS Es-8 - amzn.to/3dbs68m Disaster Area DPC-8EZ - amzn.to/32d7eHC Musicom Lab EFX-MKV - bit.ly/3uOOF8U Musicom EFX LE II - bit.ly/3wWyqsm RJM PBC6X - shop.rjmmusic.com/b-stock-mastermind-pbc-6x/ RJM PBC/10 - shop.rjmmusic.com/mastermind-pbc-10/
I have now G2 and I use Selah Quartz with it to program midi when I need more complex programming and display. I'm going to buy G3. G2 is so easy and fast to use and I'm really happy with it and when I get G3, I don't need that Selah Quarzt anymore.
I watched this video over a year ago and it has been a great help. I got me a super switcher and it has been perfect to use for my synth pedals. The boost on it is killer.
First time hearing about Musicom. I am one of those who wants to write out the entire show and be able to switch forward through the songs and their various parts sequentially. This will include both in-front-of-amps devices as well as stereo backline effects in a wet/dry/wet system. Up to now I have been primarily focused on the RJM Mastermind GT22. But, being that no-one makes exactly what I want, I think that, at the end of the day, I need to have everything I want/need custom-made to my specs (cleaner/easier end-product). To be able to tell/show others what I am after so it can be made so that my job during a performance is simplified to an extreme level. Literally just the ability to shift forward through the entire show with just one button, plus some expression pedals for volume, wah, and modulation controls (speed and depth) for more than one effect/device at a time. The next concern is how many wires are running from the front of the stage to the backline. Ideally, 2. One for power and one for AOIP/MIDI sends/receives (DANTE/MADI?). I have other ideas, but they do not apply to this discussion (EXT LED).
I paid for a switcher then saw this video was about to drop and was waiting to see something I didn't know about be mentioned more suitable. Still pretty happy that I'm picking up a second hand Musicomlabs efx mk3 tomorrow. Looking forward to see what I can get out of it.
My Super Switcher is on the way. I've always been a Fender amp with compression and a Blues Driver/ Tube Screamer kinda guy. Been getting more pedals and it's getting annoying turning one off and one on at the same time now that I have about 8 pedals. Looking forward to hitting one button and having a whole new loop at my feet! Thanks for this video.
Finally the video I was waiting for.... please explain how to use a 6 or 8 loop switcher when you have 12 pedals (if you can). Maybe using stuffs as the strymon timeline just with the midi? Or leave some pedals out of the loops? Which pedals can stay out of the loops? I saw your friend Daniel Pedalboard from Virginia in the “Mastering your church Pedalboard” episode and he had an Es8 with more than 8 pedals. Sorry for my English, I really love your videos thank you.
The MIDI pedals can be used outside of the loops and controlled via MIDI. We did this with Rhett Shull and others with their switcher rigs as you can change settings and turn pedals on/off without being in a loop of the switcher. Ordinarily this would be time-based pedals like delay and reverb, modulation, any sort of looper, things like that.
I watched this to try and find a simple switcher that would make my life easier, but these things are all crazy. There must be something simpler than all of these that just lets you turn on one or more pedals at a time thus taking them out of the loop when you are not using them.
The disaster seems like a sweet little guy and so compact. The g3 of that thing can make so much, and you can do even more with the tuner jack and turned it into a multi jack.
G2 does a lot. It also has stereo outputs one of which is isolated with a transformer and allows the phase to be reversed (specifically designed for stereo amps). It provides 120 presets, which is less than some, but still quite a lot. The bank function is well thought out, you don’t have to navigate through loads of banks, hit the bank button and pick your desired bank by hitting switches 1 through 8. Allows you to use switches to turn presets on/off or you can assign a switch to turn any effect on/off (I.e. set your basic sounds to presets, then use switches to selectively add or subtract a desired effect). That’s way better than remembering a load of presets, although you can do that also. It’s ease of use doesn’t compromise functionality, it’s really well thought out. Lastly and most importantly it has top quality sound.
David, many of the switchers on here have that feature, and do it for less money with more options. Musicom Lab, RJM both have this feature as well with isolated outputs, switching matrix, etc. Sound quality is difficult for most to determine since they're not comparing switchers side-by-side. Most of them, in bypass at least, are all pretty good, not many discernible differences internally in terms of how the wiring of matrix might impact the tone. The buffers on them however are very different and The Gig Rig buffers aren't at the same level as the RJM or the Musicom Lab - they both have around 100-150 ohm output impedance. The Gig Rig version is around 1K (10x higher). That's not great for driving long lines without degradation of sound.
Question: I have 4 amps. I use different effect pedals with each amp. (I think about this as 4 different "rigs.") Is there a switcher, which will enable me to include all 4 of my rigs? (The switchers I've seen contemplate only 2 amp outputs, but I have 4 different amps I want to include in my switcher.) How can I do this?
Man this was great and very informative, I def subscribed and gave you the thumbs up, thank you! I fall into group one where I'll mostly be using my board for live, I would like to save some $ and go with the EHX but since I will have between 14-16 pedals on my board I feel that I really need the extra two that gigrig2 offers, and even then I will have to double pedal on some loops. I don't think I need much more than to do a little less (or at least cleaner) tap dancing, and improve my signal since now I just go straight through all my pedals.
I've got a board with the Boss ES-8. I love it but there's two main drawbacks. (1) It's very big and takes up fully 40% of my pedal board area, and patch panel on the back is tight and will only handle the smallest of straight connectors. (2) It will only address and send single PC messages to 8 devices and/or two CC messages per device. I mean 8 total MIDI packets per preset. If I have my two full boards, one pre-amp and one board in the FX loop, that becomes a limitation and requires reserving a PRESET on each back to do a RESET operation to shut things off. This is a very clumsy workaround. One Question: since it takes up so much real estate, is their any suggested method for creating an umbilical cable to separate the switcher from the pedalboard without a huge collection of cables. I've been thinking about DB25 break out boards connected by an off-the-shelf DB25 serial cable. Any thoughts?
I guess my question is what 8 loop switcher is smaller, technically it's 9 loops with the VP insert? You could get some broadcast cables snakes which are really low capacitance and potentially do it, but I don't think it'd be wise.
Just sold my ehx super switcher and purchased a boss es-8. I couldn't be happier. I was too limited on my ehx with only having 1 pc and 1 cc message at a time. Now I can program way more than I need on the es-8 and its super easy. Small learning curve but seriously not that bad.
Loves the video! I'm just getting into looping and I really liked some of the options you laid out here. I do have a question though: If I want to use a pedal switcher to not only switch between effects but also guitar amps. Will any of these switchers do that? I really like the EHX Super Switcher but does it have the ability to switch between amps?
Some of them have an A/B option but often require you to sacrifice one loop, so if it's a 10 loop switcher you only have 9 loops available with one going to the second amp.
Just because someone wants to use a switcher doesn't necessarily mean they are a midi nut, and need ultimate computer programability. Personally that's a deal breaker for me. I'm not a beginner, I just am not a programming nerd. I want to make music not geek out on algorithms, and programming. I find your review a little variable if not slightly biased towards some units, that are less capable than others, yet you seem to rate them higher. As for buffers, specs are only specs. I personally don't like the sound of most buffers, including the specs you speak of. They add a high "sheen" to the signal that does not sound natural to me. Perhaps they drive longer runs, but thats not a concern for me. I want the most "guitar pickups into amp" sound possible, and still have 1 button patch changes thru songs, and other options. I have played the G2 (with updates), basically side by side with the Boss ES and a couple others, and its a no brainer for me. Plug and play user ergonomics and sound...... the G2 just sounds better, more straight into the amp like,, while still allowing amp switching, song patches, loop insets, some midi, etc. It is pricey, but for ease of use, for me it's worth it, and again it has nothing to do with being a beginner it's about simplicity and sound quality.
Lou, any video like this is forced to generalize based on the common experiences of the clientele. That's a fact. Remember that a buffer isn't a buffer isn't a buffer - and if you're hearing a sheen from the buffer you either 1) don't have a high quality buffer as a good buffer has no sound whatsoever (even those that meet that spec aren't always great but it's the best baseline we can give) or 2) the buffer meets that criteria and is high quality but don't really know what you amp sounds like without any capacitance between it and the input and you like the color of the roll off from some cable capacitance into the input. I can guarantee you if you do the tests blind and you're running entire rigs with a 1K output in normal pedalboard applications, it's won't be neutral - now you might be "OK" with that sound but it wont' be the same as your amplifier. TheGigRig and the Boss are actually the most similar switchers out there in terms of using the same matrix in both, and have the same buffers specs (although The Gig Rig uses a Voltage Control thing for the variable output levels where the Boss is typical JFET/BJT). Neither are great for transparency or noise or for driving long lines without degradation or instabilities. You may like them, or find them suitable, but we may also not hear things the same and we're in no way "normed" to what you call a neutral sound versus what I do, the same way as I might be just fine with Sushi from a Gas Station where you wouldn't settle for anything less than Nobu.
No idea...there's sorta a minimum price that they have to be based on the parts alone, I get concerned when I see something as cheap as some of those when they cost less than the sum of the parts...it's just not possible to also be good quality.
@@VertexEffectsInc see but you might not be well versed in actual components. These are just for extremely basic routing and programability. I would strongly recommend not limiting yourself based on understanding of pricing of tech, its too deep unless you are in the business of building/designing chips/software. Buffers are also extremely cheap. There is no other hardware here. I think guitar players are just really backwards with tech, which haha, I guess is prime target for sales haha.
Awesome channel with excellent content - THANK YOU!! Question - you've made it clear unless it's a setlist or gig context, switchers may not be the bees-knees. But I'm in the session/studio/professional hobbyist category and I'm trying to clean up my signal path. That's where I am wondering if it's switcher material, or just buffer material? I'd love to also control my multi-channel amps of which I run 2 in stereo - both MIDI compatible. I currently use a Lehle S-Go-S splitter, but have multiple FX in front and in the loops - with several of the FX being stereo. Thoughts?? Thanks for any feedback.
Really interesting. Thinking about getting a switcher and probably the boss ES8. My only concern if finding the info if loops can be routed only to a specific amp out (using 2 amps with specific effects hitting each of them and no effect loop on these amps). Maybe you have that info and a way to do it. In any case thanks for the video !
Great video!!! Wondering if have you ever done a rig for a versatile guitar performer? I'm struggling in how to create mine because some times I need to perform electric guitar(as lead and ambient), acoustic guitar and sing choirs(with harmony effects) I have the TC-Helicon Voice live 3x that is supposed that should help me on this 3 areas but honestly is quite complicated in parameters vs a pedalboard with knobs and presets. Thanks for any advice
The Helicon units have MIDI I think...if you set up a set list for yourself you can use a lot of these switchers to do all your vocal triggers which can simplify your workflow on stage. Is that what you're asking?
@@VertexEffectsInc Workflows and presets work well but always on live performance many times you need to improvise and that means grab a preferred preset and tweak on the fly, i would like to leave the TCHeliconVL3 and create a pedalboard with pedals for electric, acoustic, voice effects and a switcher. I think that with this i will have fx loops, presets but also the access to the knobs to move things on the fly. Have you ever built a pedalboard like this?
@@luischi5136 I've made some hybrid solo guitarist rigs, sometimes you can do EXP pedals to controls specific parameters with your feet as well do you don't have to adjust knobs on the floor. That can be handy.
Just finished putting together a board around a PBC 6X and then put all of the songs, set lists and presets into it, ready for a solo gig this week. It is the gold standard. If you can afford one the RJM stuff is the industry standard. Cry once, buy the best.
@@VertexEffectsInc for the record, I owned one of the other ones you recommended and while it was great, it then developed faults. It was fully repaired under warranty, even though it was 3 years old, but I felt I couldn’t trust it. Hence, the importance of buying best first time.
He missed an opportunity to acknowledge that. I think the point was more about G2 being straightforward enough for beginners to pick up quickly, not about the quality being consistent with a “beginner” switcher.
does the es-8 have isolated outputs that are phase reversible? of all of the switchers out there.. this seems like one of the most important things for a switcher to have but I'm finding a lot of them lack it
No and no. You would need to have something like a Lehle P split on top of one amp to isolate it and have polarity control. You could also get around the polarity thing by having one inverted speaker cable if the amps didn’t match up. If you kept them on the same grounds you may not need the galvanic isolation
The Morningstar is a disaggregated unit, two pieces, not all in one. This makes it impractical to compare to these fully loaded switchers. Same with the Hex.
I’ve preordered a g3 atom for my wet/dry/wet board. I’ll use it for all my stereo pedals (6 stereo loops), and for the front end of my dry amp I’ll be adding a morning star ML5 (5 mono loops) which is super compact and can be slaved to the g3.
@@VertexEffectsInc the g3 has at least one parallel mixer, but honestly I may run an impure wet (some dry) in order to run delay into reverb without loosing the initial sound (before the delays are happening) in the reverb. But I’ll play with doing the delay and reverb in parallel with kill dry too... I am also interested in running a couple delays in parallel though.
@@VertexEffectsInc I'm not sure I understand what you mean here, frankly i'm a decently smart guy with a math degree, but the whole parallel killdry signal chain thing can get pretty freaky pretty fast and I'm not sure I really get it all the time. But since the Atom allows you to change the mixer configuration and even pedal order per preset it's going to be a great platform for figuring out how to do this stuff, and experiment without having to rewire my board every time I'd like to try a different approach. I would have thought that you could run 2 stereo effects in parallel both in kill dry, being fed by the slave out of my dry amp and get a decent result, but maybe that's not what you are getting at? In any case I have a lovely analog stereo phaser, as well as a stereo tube tremolo, in addition to a pair of stereo delays and reverb, oh yeah and a chorus/flanger... So obviously i'll be having a less than pure killdry situation going on downstream of my dry amp. Now if I had stereo dry amps AND stereo wet amps...
@@jessedaly7847 you'd have to break the loops somehow, similarly to how you would do a 4CM set up, but fed by the line out from your dry amp into the switcher after you've already exited the switcher with your dry path. The line level input would feed your mixer with your 100% wet effects set to kill dry, however, I don't think you can have multiple parallel mixes in this unit and I'm also not sure if your trem or phaser go 100% wet, a lot of them don't and aren't designed to be "return only" effects like you'd see in a mix bus.
Great review! Which ones can switch between 2 different amps? Some of them have stereo outputs, but I guess these cannot be used to switch between 2 amps. Am I wrong?
You can also sacrifice a channel to get an A/B output, and use the send of the last loop as output A and the main output as output B.
2 года назад+2
For those wondering about the buffer specs of the Disaster Area, apparently they updated the manual info and it has an input impedance 1M ohm (which is sweet) and a selectable output impedance of 560 ohms up to 33k ohms (that last one a whopping number you will probably never need).
I didn't see it mentioned but the best decision I've made regarding pedal purchases was the Boss MS-3. It's saved so much space on my board and it takes away all tap dancing I would have to do so it helps me perform better than being stuck behind my board the whole time. There's a handful of times I've taken some pedals off the board because some of the onboard effects sounded better than the ones I was using. I also like that it helps me save space on my board so I don't have to carry around a huge board. The MS-3 comes at my highest recommendation. It'll never leave my board.
Also, I know it's more of a Multi-Effects Processor but I bought it because of the Loop Switching elements. The only downside to the MS-3 is the ability to not be able to switch your loop orders but that's not a huge deal to me personally.
@@VertexEffectsInc For sure I totally get it. Just wanted to throw that out there for anyone reading these comments that may not wanna go as big with the other switchers like me. I got it as a switching system first and an effects unit 2nd
I'm actualy having a hard time finding a good switcher that has a good price, what I'm actualy looking for is one where loop mode(just turning on a specific loop) and preset mode at the same time. Where i can just put drives in a loop mode and all modulations, delay, revebs, on preset. making it that i turn on 1 loop for all drives, then just kick 1 button to add a specific preset where all the combination i need fr modulation or nay effects just add to it. It seems all pedal switcher are just either you are in a loop mode, or you are in preset mode. I hope there is such where you can choose per toggle switch wether its on a loop, or preset mode.
Hello Mason. Many thanks for all those very educative videos. I have a question regarding Musicomlab MK-V buffers. In the manual its stated that input buffer impedance is 2.2 M Ohm. On LE model its 1M Ohm. Is this something to be concerned about? I made some testing in the past and I prefer buffers you are recommending. I would like to get MK-V but this might be a dealbreaker for me
Have you done a video on your Wet-Dry-Wet Build? Would be interested in seeing that. Thanks, this was VERY INFORMATIVE. I'm in the Contemplation zone right now, but know I will be getting a Switcher this Year, Sometime. Also, now you have to Look at the Brand New Carl Martin?
Hello... I need your help... This is my Wet-Dry-Wet rig... [Guitar-Cry baby-Boost-Volume-Tube screamer -Amp input...OUT to Suhr ISO, first Speaker thru to cab(dry signal),Second speaker thru to -Strymon Ola... L-R out to TimeLine...L-R out to Big Sky...input to Power stage 700 stereo amp left and right...left out to cab1 and right out to cab 2(my two WET signal)] How can I do the same rig with GigRig G3...??? As I can see we have one guitar input and two output [that's easy for stereo sound...] In my case I need one output for my dry signal and two outputs for my wet [Left end Right] signal [to connect my stereo amp] How can I do that...? Thank's in advance...
You basically do it like you would the 4 cable method option but I don't know how many stereo loops there are on the G3 - you'd need to be able to feed the stereo effects to do this right and maintain the stereo image throughout.
Loved the video! Mason, are there any other products like the Parallelizer? I do believe that the Wetter Box by Gig Rig is one, and then there are the rackmount line mixers. But is there anything else that's pedalboard friendly?
It's not the same product. The Wetter Box, or even the Xotic X Blender (what preceded the Wetter Box), are only a single loop with no dedicated dry (just a mix knob, fully left is dry, fully right is wet, but most of the effects still have dry in them so...not really a wet/dry rig) - they're not really designed for a wet/dry/wet rig specifically. The Parallelizer is actually pretty small, smaller than you think, stereo, and has three stereo mixes and a separate dry mix and all the effects inside it should be set to kill dry or return only.
I didn’t understand most of what Mason just said. It’s not his fault. I know what I need a switcher for, just not how to make it do it. I don’t plug any of my pedals into a computer for any reason eg. UA. So how do I do this?
A switcher can run your pedals , so you do not need to turn the knops anymore and you do not switch 2 or 4 Pedals On at the same time, you just step on the switcher where you did say turn on delay and distortion with the knops turned on 12 O clock bla bla like you would love to play the pedals. There are switchers you can program on to you PC, so you can tell it what to do , but not all switchers you programm onto your computer like he said in the video.
I opted purchase the Voodoo Labs PX-8, which has met my needs well… up until I added Iridium and Collider to my rig. It has MIDI capability but I cannot figure out how to do that yet 😞. Great content as always Sir. If you put your ability to explain things to simpletons like myself into a switcher, you’d score a win.
Extremely new to this, but I’m not exactly concerned with programming specific patches, I just want a system that allows me to turn certain pedals on and off from one location. Would the EXH work well for this?
For $400 or under brand new, there are two switchers with 8 loops and midi support: Voodoo Labs PX-8 and the Disaster Area DPC 8EZ gen 3. Both made in USA and the PX-8 model comes with a 5-year warranty.
Mason, a question for you. I'm considering the RJM PBC6X and am concerned about the input buffer. I'll be using a fuzz that hates a buffer in front of it. Do I need to change anything in order to not let the input buffer of the switcher affect the fuzz pedal?
Gigrig is a fantastic product, Dan really runs a great company. Their MIDI14 was great sounding, lots of functionally. The next gen G2 took it to another level, but the MIDI14 still could be figured out by new users.
Incredible video thanks! So glad to hear about smaller switchers and different brands I hadn’t heard of Would you still put separate input and output buffers on either side of a more simple true bypass switcher like the gigrig quartermaster?
Thanks for the rundown. Went with the Boss ES-8, because second-hand units are really good value in UK, around £300 - which gives you a lot for the price of just 3 cups of coffee ;) The Disaster Area is about that price new, ever here. Might have gone ES-5, except they only go for £40-50 less than the ES-8. I guess people value the small size of the ES-5. But I need a couple of stereo loops for loopers, and delay/reverb. Chase Bliss Mood, Cosmos / Polymoon, Mercury X.
does anyone know what someone wanting to be a one man band would use if they had an amp with one input. but wanted to run say a microphone, guitar, and keyboard to it. and have a pedal to switch from instrument to instrument with only one running at the push of a button. ( so they don't interfere with each other) then use a looper and create a multiple layer song?
I posted this in a reply here but I think it’s worth mentioning. I have had the Boss ES-8 for several years now and even though there are 8 loops I came to the point where I needed an extra loop and I had run out. It was after a bit of consideration that I realized that my 2 midi controlled pedals, Strymon Timeline and Bigsky, do not need to run through the two stereo loops and could actually just go in the chain on the out of the es-8 switcher. This would free up two additional stereo channels to use. How I then turned the Strymon pedals on and off was by simply always sending a midi command to each pedal since I use the ES-8 in song set mode using presets. When I want to turn the delay or reverb off I send a midi command from the es-8 to that pedal to change to a “dry” preset I’ve saved on that pedal. This in turn means the pedals wet effect is not affecting the signal so it’s the same as if I had turned the loop off. Hope this helps someone. This in theory would work with any switcher that had midi functionality. Great Video!
Saw your past video on switchers and now I'm thinking of getting one so I don't have to tap dance around all my pedals. Only problem is, I'm having trouble finding one that is compact enough to fit on my pedalboard, but has at least 5 switches, can accomdoate most of my pedals, can switch the clean/dirty channel on my Mesa Boogie Mark V, and can work with the "4 cable method" of FX In/Out of my amp for my effects and noise gate. My current setup looks like Tuner>Noise Gate>Synth>Digitech>Volume>Wah>Compressor>Big Muff>Phaser>OD>Front of Amp and then Effects Send>Tri-Chorus>Delay>Reverb 1>Reverb 2>Loop Station>Effects Return. Any suggestions?
Well...you tuner doesn't need to be in the loop. Nor does the Volume and wah. Those can be before. If any of your pedals have MIDI like the Chorus, Delay, or Reverb, they can live out of the looper as well and be controlled via MIDI. RJM is my favorite.
Great video! Will you be making a video of your WET DRY WET PBC6X rig? I have a PBC6X myself and have been wondering what the best way to go about routing this setup is? I’m having issues with isolation/grounding issues right now. Not sure how to remedy this and hoping you’ll talk about it.
Hey! Thank you for this great in depth video! I was wondering… I always play in stereo, but actually heard the first time about isolated audio outputs.. always leaned towards the RJM PBC6 for my future midi controlling.. do you think you would prefer the MK5 when it comes to playing in stereo? Is the difference really that big? 😊
I'd pick the boss es-5 but i never used one to select an amp channel and now i have an engl so i have no idea how to use it to select the channel and to turn on and off the engl's mid boost, can you explain how should i do that?
Not sure how the ENGL is doing it, via DIN cable or via TRS but either way the ES-5 can do it, you might need to get an adaptor to make it work, but it will.
I bought the cheap truetone buffer for the end of my pedals but I just bought a tc polytune 3 tuner with a buffer at the front of my pedalboard. In your expertise do you think I need another truetone buffer for the front of my polytune tuner with buffer?
You can use either as your input buffer, and use the truetone as the output buffer at the end of the chain. You don't need three unless you're running stereo.
@@VertexEffectsInc ok, great thanks! I had a line 6 hd147 head, so I never needed to actually learn this but I recently bought a Mesa boogie triple rectifier and I’m now learning about tone suck! Thanks again for your help!
@@VertexEffectsInc I finally got the polytune at the front and the Truetone buffer in the back and it sounds amazing! Thanks for the tips. This channel is amazing, I’ve learned so much from you. So, thanks for everything.
Are you going to make a video showing how to modify the switcher from 500k to 1meg? I wonder why that switcher was 2 Meg's and they changed it to 1 Meg because why not just keep it at 2megs because you get more high end. All the switchers use relays? But each switch will have signal loss because of the type of relay switch they are using for each loop has a relay switch that will have a drop in signal loss and the specifications of the switcher they often leave out this information in the specifications. It's not going to be a 1:1 ratio from input to output for each loop?
I'll check with Ron and Sheri before I do...I don't want to give them any headaches as a result. 2M isn't what the loading of most amps would be or the way your guitar pickups would see the amp input.
Mason, wonderful overview, was happy to see all of the switchers I’ve been considering in the rundown. I do have one question, actually I (we) need clarification on conflicting statements. On the RJM PBC6X in the recommendation portion of the vid you state it CAN change loop order, then in your personal choices segment you contradict that and say that the RJM equivalent (6X?) of the EFX MK-5 matrix doesn’t allow positioning, loop order. Could you clarify that please? Effect order/ loop priority is important to me, and up until your recommendation I was “PBC/6X all the way baby”…now I’m simply Whaaa…? I’ll head over to RJM and see if I can sort that out. If I do go with the 6X I’ll talk with the owners about that inlet buffer spec.
@@VertexEffectsInc there we go! Thanks….In reflection it was more of an ambiguity with respect to which of the two RJM units you were referring to. Clarification very much appreciated as are many of the videos you shoot. George
Nice video very informative. I'm a big fan of the Boss MS-3 since I just don't need anything more and the built effects sound great. A simple budget midi controller without loops is Disaster Area Design DMC -7 or similar which you can pickup for less than 100 US used. It all comes down to budget and purpose.
I m using a ms3. And i really like the CURNUM function. Does the boss the boss es 8 have the same function where I can press the same preset twice to add/remove effects on my loops
The use of TRS insert cables is sucking my will to live... Sick of this BS because no one makes quality right-angle inserts... They are all cheap crap with no shielding... ☹️
You can always make your own, we also sell insert cables on Sweetwater's site: www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=vertex+insert all Mogami cables and Square Plug ends.
Awsome video! I was wondering, if there is a switcher out there that can do the change order thing for 18 pedals? Im using the es8 for that now, but im still stuck with the order on some pedals bc they are in the same loop. Two es8's wont work in that way unfortunately. Would be great to hear your thoughts!
I'm sometimes blown away by how many people go for the boss models and then not use any of the clever routing, mixing, panning functions. The thing can do magical things. On that note, opinions on the boss ms3? Is the component quality on the same level?
Question. I want to take all my pedals off board and put in rack drawers where they’ll stay. It’s 6 pedals between the guitar and front of AxeFxIIXL+, pretty simple right? My floorboard will just be my MFC101 and a pedal switcher IF I understand this switcher or loop switcher thing correctly. The routing and/or things needed have me pretty fn stumped. 1- I need some kind of loop/switcher right, but do I need something in the rack like an interface or a device that communicates with the AxeFx and the floor switcher? 2- Can a switcher have a “Y” function so that I can control the pedals independently in my rack but switch over to my Fryette power amp with that same loop of pedals? Out of the 6 pedals I have I only ever run one at a time so no real loops happening I just need to control them from the floor. Thanks so much for any and all help provided
not sure if i'm understanding your question correctly, but i think if you wanted to keep your pedals in the drawer you'd need something like the Morningstar MC6 on the floor and then the ML10x in the drawer (amongst some other options). The switchers in this video would be on the pedalboard in front of you.
RJM isn't so easy to program for a bigger having worked with many that buy this switcher but can't use it. Equally Musicom is among the best software programs out there up there with RJM. Not sure that's so easy for a beginner either.
Excellent recommendations!! Thanks, Mason! What about the Morningstar system? I would like some review at some point, because as everyone else I know you know your stuff, and we trust you! Again, thanks for all these videos you put out there!!
Mason, another question I have about routing with switchers. I have a few pedals that have a single input and dual outputs (a Boss CH-1, an MXR 10 band EQ). I currently run the Boss in mono with my switcher, and the first output of my MXR goes into my switcher, and then the second one goes out into the second input of my Roland JC40. That line is only engaged when that pedal is in the loop I’m using, if that makes sense. How would I run multiple pedals like this into that second Roland input? I’m considering getting a Boss flanger with the same type of setup. Only thing I can imagine is like a box where it has 3 inputs for those 3 extra outs on those pedals, then a single cable into that second Roland input. Hopefully this makes sense. Is this possible? What gear would make this work? Thanks Rig Dr!
Thank you for this! I think the ES-8 might be the one for me. The Musicomlab unit I tried a couple of years ago was to difficult to program from the unit.
Great informative vid as always. After having an es8 (which shit the bed just out of warranty. 😭) and now es5 I can defo say the boss ones are pretty versatile! Would like to get my hands on a g3 atom at some stage.
I hope someone can help me out. I recently bought the EVH Iconic 40 watt combo. I love that amp and it's features. Unfortunately the foot switch can only channel switch and activate the boost feature. I really want to use a switcher that can enable me to create patches where I can switch channels, have the boost stored in my lead patches along with the "Burn" function stored in patches. What I'm trying to achieve is making that amp a true 3 channel amp with boost. Unfortunately, the combo is not MIDI and the "Boost" is only footswitchable. Thanks to all in advance, I really appreciate it.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks so much for the info. I was looking into the Voodoo Labs Control Switcher too. I'm hoping one of these units will do what I want in regards to making presets with the different functions only accessible from the control panel. Love your channel. You're like the modern day Bob Bradshaw
DisasterArea DPC8EZ - You said it "can't reroute the order" but your pointers that were popping-up on screen says "change loop order". Was that a typo? FYI. Yes, I'm a newbie on the topic of switchers.
I am currently putting together my board and this channel has been a blessing! You have also answered all of my questions in the comments which I am really grateful for, so thank you! I have one more if you don’t mind 🙃 I have a Boss ES-8 and I’m wondering if it’s ok to put a pedal in the volume loop to gain an extra loop. Is this something you have done before?
Glad to help! You can put any pedal in the VP loop, doesn't need to be a volume pedal you just won't have an IA footswitch for it unless you program that or use an external switch of some kind.
As long as I've played guitar 25yrs... I've never had or considered a switcher. I run a traditional stomp box setup, into a M13, into Fx loop of my amp. My question is can a "switcher" recall different settings/dials from your analogue pedals, for each preset? Ex: for one I have my Earthquaker Palisades set to OD mode low gain, then on another switcher preset have it set to palisades fuzz heavy gain? Or can it not do that, and when the switcher calls up that pedal it's stuck to whatever dials you have it on? What about a digital pedal, like a HX stomp? can you have the switcher call up different fx and settings from the Stomp, and assign them to different presets on the switcher?
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks for the reply and clarification Mason! It would be a game changer if it could recall analogue pedals... I got so many analogue pedals with so many flavors in the box, like the EQD Palisades having so many different drives, or an EQD data corruptor, 3 settings I love on there, but the downside is having to quickly dial in those different sounds from the same pedal... within a song while performing live? very difficult, then with 2-3 pedals lol nope. looks like digital midi stomps hooked up to a switcher has amazing potential. which is why I love the m13 so much with stomps. with my M13 i set each row to different songs or set lists. I can have the same effects like delays on top of each other, but different settings.
Tom just FYI - there are also a number of pedals that have an analogue signal path, look and behave like old school pedals with knobs and switches, and can be used exactly like the rest of your analog pedals, but they also have a MIDI “brain” that allows you to change presets (the knobs generally won’t move, but the sound will change). Just to give one example (there are dozens) based on your example above for wanting to flip from low gain to fuzz, the Chase Bliss ‘Brothers’ has two channels of boost/drive/fuzz and you can select any of those, or combination thereof, using a switcher (and also changing your M13 or HX Stomp preset at the same time with one press of the switcher). I don’t have any affiliation (I do own a Brothers), and there are loads of peels like that to chose from now.
@@tomzeto actually there is a auch device coming that you are talking about. It’s called the „gecko tool“ It basically lets you motorize any knob on any pedal or amp, a total game changer. What you can do then is control these knobs with exp or with pre programmed presets… total game changer, can’t wait to get mine haha
Hey Mason, thanks for making this video. I’m very torn between the RJM 10 or 6x... loop reordering is awesome but does having the bigger unit (10) make it easier to manage turning things on and off on the fly? Also, I know I could run 2 of my pedals stereo and through midi rather than the loops on the 6x so that way I have room for the other pedals but are there any advantages of having the two pedals (strymons) connected via midi as well as having them in the stereo loops?
@@VertexEffectsInc what if I wanted to stick to RJM? I love their products... would the fix to loop re ordering be tearing the board apart and reorder manually essentially? And is there much of a difference if I have midi connected vs midi AND loop connected strymons? Sorry I don’t know if this makes sense...
I would also like to know Mason's thoughts on the second part of your question. I have two Specular Tempus pedals and one Synesthesia, and a large number of different drives. Also trying to decide between PBC 10 and 6X
@@VertexEffectsInc not 100% sure. I got one and it's amazing, you find a lot on reverb even down to 350. However I probably go for the disaster area sooner or later because of space.
What's your favorite switcher of the bunch? Or one that we didn't mention? Tell us below!
SWITCHERS FEATURED IN THIS VIDEO:
Gigrig G2 - shop.thegigrig.com/g2/
Gigrig G3 - shop.thegigrig.com/G3/
EHX Super Switcher - bit.ly/3dVlUR0
BOSS Es-5 - amzn.to/329kVY3
BOSS Es-8 - amzn.to/3dbs68m
Disaster Area DPC-8EZ - amzn.to/32d7eHC
Musicom Lab EFX-MKV - bit.ly/3uOOF8U
Musicom EFX LE II - bit.ly/3wWyqsm
RJM PBC6X - shop.rjmmusic.com/b-stock-mastermind-pbc-6x/
RJM PBC/10 - shop.rjmmusic.com/mastermind-pbc-10/
BOSS MS-3!!!
I have now G2 and I use Selah Quartz with it to program midi when I need more complex programming and display. I'm going to buy G3. G2 is so easy and fast to use and I'm really happy with it and when I get G3, I don't need that Selah Quarzt anymore.
@@mikeolivera149 not really the same thing...more of a multieffects unit.
@@peterpink5393 Nice!
Morningstar MC6
I learned a very important lesson in this video - I am too poor to buy a switcher
In time....or second hand!
@@VertexEffectsInc I thought when the kids grew up it would be my time.... now Grandkids. USED IT IS!
Learn to solder. I think i can build a basic one for around $25. Just no midi.
Lol!
Yes Brian me too way out of my budget. I can only afford cheap Chinese knock offs. Yea
Joyo has an 8 loop switcher for like ~$150. Been using it for years and it works perfectly for me
Great!
I watched this video over a year ago and it has been a great help. I got me a super switcher and it has been perfect to use for my synth pedals. The boost on it is killer.
Great!
First time hearing about Musicom. I am one of those who wants to write out the entire show and be able to switch forward through the songs and their various parts sequentially. This will include both in-front-of-amps devices as well as stereo backline effects in a wet/dry/wet system. Up to now I have been primarily focused on the RJM Mastermind GT22. But, being that no-one makes exactly what I want, I think that, at the end of the day, I need to have everything I want/need custom-made to my specs (cleaner/easier end-product). To be able to tell/show others what I am after so it can be made so that my job during a performance is simplified to an extreme level. Literally just the ability to shift forward through the entire show with just one button, plus some expression pedals for volume, wah, and modulation controls (speed and depth) for more than one effect/device at a time. The next concern is how many wires are running from the front of the stage to the backline. Ideally, 2. One for power and one for AOIP/MIDI sends/receives (DANTE/MADI?). I have other ideas, but they do not apply to this discussion (EXT LED).
Sounds like a fun project!
I paid for a switcher then saw this video was about to drop and was waiting to see something I didn't know about be mentioned more suitable. Still pretty happy that I'm picking up a second hand Musicomlabs efx mk3 tomorrow. Looking forward to see what I can get out of it.
They're great switchers!
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks Mason, love the content and learn alot.
@@bjlatter I'm so glad!
My Super Switcher is on the way. I've always been a Fender amp with compression and a Blues Driver/ Tube Screamer kinda guy. Been getting more pedals and it's getting annoying turning one off and one on at the same time now that I have about 8 pedals. Looking forward to hitting one button and having a whole new loop at my feet! Thanks for this video.
Very cool! Enjoy!
Finally the video I was waiting for.... please explain how to use a 6 or 8 loop switcher when you have 12 pedals (if you can). Maybe using stuffs as the strymon timeline just with the midi? Or leave some pedals out of the loops? Which pedals can stay out of the loops? I saw your friend Daniel Pedalboard from Virginia in the “Mastering your church Pedalboard” episode and he had an Es8 with more than 8 pedals. Sorry for my English, I really love your videos thank you.
The MIDI pedals can be used outside of the loops and controlled via MIDI. We did this with Rhett Shull and others with their switcher rigs as you can change settings and turn pedals on/off without being in a loop of the switcher. Ordinarily this would be time-based pedals like delay and reverb, modulation, any sort of looper, things like that.
I watched this to try and find a simple switcher that would make my life easier, but these things are all crazy. There must be something simpler than all of these that just lets you turn on one or more pedals at a time thus taking them out of the loop when you are not using them.
Literally all of them do this. The GigRig switchers are easiest to do what you’re after. No computer or app needed
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Joyo PXL loop switchers. Very affordable and seems to be one of the best deals, at least on the surface.
I haven't seen any in person
All videos are Truely so informative. Can’t quit watching.🤘🤘🤘
I appreciate that!
Great video! I have been using ES-8 for years! Too bad it needs a midi/usb cable to create presets on a computer, but interface is not that bad!
Yes, great unit
The disaster seems like a sweet little guy and so compact. The g3 of that thing can make so much, and you can do even more with the tuner jack and turned it into a multi jack.
G2 does a lot. It also has stereo outputs one of which is isolated with a transformer and allows the phase to be reversed (specifically designed for stereo amps). It provides 120 presets, which is less than some, but still quite a lot. The bank function is well thought out, you don’t have to navigate through loads of banks, hit the bank button and pick your desired bank by hitting switches 1 through 8. Allows you to use switches to turn presets on/off or you can assign a switch to turn any effect on/off (I.e. set your basic sounds to presets, then use switches to selectively add or subtract a desired effect). That’s way better than remembering a load of presets, although you can do that also. It’s ease of use doesn’t compromise functionality, it’s really well thought out. Lastly and most importantly it has top quality sound.
David, many of the switchers on here have that feature, and do it for less money with more options. Musicom Lab, RJM both have this feature as well with isolated outputs, switching matrix, etc. Sound quality is difficult for most to determine since they're not comparing switchers side-by-side. Most of them, in bypass at least, are all pretty good, not many discernible differences internally in terms of how the wiring of matrix might impact the tone. The buffers on them however are very different and The Gig Rig buffers aren't at the same level as the RJM or the Musicom Lab - they both have around 100-150 ohm output impedance. The Gig Rig version is around 1K (10x higher). That's not great for driving long lines without degradation of sound.
Question: I have 4 amps. I use different effect pedals with each amp. (I think about this as 4 different "rigs.") Is there a switcher, which will enable me to include all 4 of my rigs? (The switchers I've seen contemplate only 2 amp outputs, but I have 4 different amps I want to include in my switcher.) How can I do this?
Man this was great and very informative, I def subscribed and gave you the thumbs up, thank you! I fall into group one where I'll mostly be using my board for live, I would like to save some $ and go with the EHX but since I will have between 14-16 pedals on my board I feel that I really need the extra two that gigrig2 offers, and even then I will have to double pedal on some loops. I don't think I need much more than to do a little less (or at least cleaner) tap dancing, and improve my signal since now I just go straight through all my pedals.
Thanks for watching! Hope it was helpful!
I've got a board with the Boss ES-8. I love it but there's two main drawbacks. (1) It's very big and takes up fully 40% of my pedal board area, and patch panel on the back is tight and will only handle the smallest of straight connectors. (2) It will only address and send single PC messages to 8 devices and/or two CC messages per device. I mean 8 total MIDI packets per preset. If I have my two full boards, one pre-amp and one board in the FX loop, that becomes a limitation and requires reserving a PRESET on each back to do a RESET operation to shut things off. This is a very clumsy workaround. One Question: since it takes up so much real estate, is their any suggested method for creating an umbilical cable to separate the switcher from the pedalboard without a huge collection of cables. I've been thinking about DB25 break out boards connected by an off-the-shelf DB25 serial cable. Any thoughts?
I guess my question is what 8 loop switcher is smaller, technically it's 9 loops with the VP insert? You could get some broadcast cables snakes which are really low capacitance and potentially do it, but I don't think it'd be wise.
Great, great lesson... well learned. Also thanks for your nice and very understandable english... I'm Italian. Thumb up and subscribed. ❤
It's like God sent me this, I was searching for a compact programmable switcher all day.
Nice! Glad it helped!
Just sold my ehx super switcher and purchased a boss es-8. I couldn't be happier. I was too limited on my ehx with only having 1 pc and 1 cc message at a time. Now I can program way more than I need on the es-8 and its super easy. Small learning curve but seriously not that bad.
Is the manual shit? I've heard so
Loves the video! I'm just getting into looping and I really liked some of the options you laid out here. I do have a question though: If I want to use a pedal switcher to not only switch between effects but also guitar amps. Will any of these switchers do that? I really like the EHX Super Switcher but does it have the ability to switch between amps?
Some of them have an A/B option but often require you to sacrifice one loop, so if it's a 10 loop switcher you only have 9 loops available with one going to the second amp.
Surprised you didn’t even pick 1 do MorningStars switchers. They are VERY well loved and almost always on back order.
Just because someone wants to use a switcher doesn't necessarily mean they are a midi nut, and need ultimate computer programability. Personally that's a deal breaker for me. I'm not a beginner, I just am not a programming nerd. I want to make music not geek out on algorithms, and programming.
I find your review a little variable if not slightly biased towards some units, that are less capable than others, yet you seem to rate them higher. As for buffers, specs are only specs. I personally don't like the sound of most buffers, including the specs you speak of. They add a high "sheen" to the signal that does not sound natural to me. Perhaps they drive longer runs, but thats not a concern for me. I want the most "guitar pickups into amp" sound possible, and still have 1 button patch changes thru songs, and other options.
I have played the G2 (with updates), basically side by side with the Boss ES and a couple others, and its a no brainer for me. Plug and play user ergonomics and sound...... the G2 just sounds better, more straight into the amp like,, while still allowing amp switching, song patches, loop insets, some midi, etc.
It is pricey, but for ease of use, for me it's worth it, and again it has nothing to do with being a beginner it's about simplicity and sound quality.
Lou, any video like this is forced to generalize based on the common experiences of the clientele. That's a fact. Remember that a buffer isn't a buffer isn't a buffer - and if you're hearing a sheen from the buffer you either 1) don't have a high quality buffer as a good buffer has no sound whatsoever (even those that meet that spec aren't always great but it's the best baseline we can give) or 2) the buffer meets that criteria and is high quality but don't really know what you amp sounds like without any capacitance between it and the input and you like the color of the roll off from some cable capacitance into the input. I can guarantee you if you do the tests blind and you're running entire rigs with a 1K output in normal pedalboard applications, it's won't be neutral - now you might be "OK" with that sound but it wont' be the same as your amplifier. TheGigRig and the Boss are actually the most similar switchers out there in terms of using the same matrix in both, and have the same buffers specs (although The Gig Rig uses a Voltage Control thing for the variable output levels where the Boss is typical JFET/BJT). Neither are great for transparency or noise or for driving long lines without degradation or instabilities. You may like them, or find them suitable, but we may also not hear things the same and we're in no way "normed" to what you call a neutral sound versus what I do, the same way as I might be just fine with Sushi from a Gas Station where you wouldn't settle for anything less than Nobu.
Man, even the beginner ones are expensive. Since you're the expert I trust, what's wrong with a real budget friendly one like the Joyo PXL4?
No idea...there's sorta a minimum price that they have to be based on the parts alone, I get concerned when I see something as cheap as some of those when they cost less than the sum of the parts...it's just not possible to also be good quality.
@@VertexEffectsInc see but you might not be well versed in actual components. These are just for extremely basic routing and programability. I would strongly recommend not limiting yourself based on understanding of pricing of tech, its too deep unless you are in the business of building/designing chips/software.
Buffers are also extremely cheap. There is no other hardware here. I think guitar players are just really backwards with tech, which haha, I guess is prime target for sales haha.
Awesome channel with excellent content - THANK YOU!! Question - you've made it clear unless it's a setlist or gig context, switchers may not be the bees-knees. But I'm in the session/studio/professional hobbyist category and I'm trying to clean up my signal path. That's where I am wondering if it's switcher material, or just buffer material? I'd love to also control my multi-channel amps of which I run 2 in stereo - both MIDI compatible. I currently use a Lehle S-Go-S splitter, but have multiple FX in front and in the loops - with several of the FX being stereo. Thoughts?? Thanks for any feedback.
Really interesting. Thinking about getting a switcher and probably the boss ES8. My only concern if finding the info if loops can be routed only to a specific amp out (using 2 amps with specific effects hitting each of them and no effect loop on these amps). Maybe you have that info and a way to do it. In any case thanks for the video !
Great video!!! Wondering if have you ever done a rig for a versatile guitar performer? I'm struggling in how to create mine because some times I need to perform electric guitar(as lead and ambient), acoustic guitar and sing choirs(with harmony effects) I have the TC-Helicon Voice live 3x that is supposed that should help me on this 3 areas but honestly is quite complicated in parameters vs a pedalboard with knobs and presets. Thanks for any advice
The Helicon units have MIDI I think...if you set up a set list for yourself you can use a lot of these switchers to do all your vocal triggers which can simplify your workflow on stage. Is that what you're asking?
@@VertexEffectsInc Workflows and presets work well but always on live performance many times you need to improvise and that means grab a preferred preset and tweak on the fly, i would like to leave the TCHeliconVL3 and create a pedalboard with pedals for electric, acoustic, voice effects and a switcher. I think that with this i will have fx loops, presets but also the access to the knobs to move things on the fly. Have you ever built a pedalboard like this?
@@luischi5136 I've made some hybrid solo guitarist rigs, sometimes you can do EXP pedals to controls specific parameters with your feet as well do you don't have to adjust knobs on the floor. That can be handy.
Just finished putting together a board around a PBC 6X and then put all of the songs, set lists and presets into it, ready for a solo gig this week. It is the gold standard. If you can afford one the RJM stuff is the industry standard. Cry once, buy the best.
Yes indeed!
@@VertexEffectsInc for the record, I owned one of the other ones you recommended and while it was great, it then developed faults. It was fully repaired under warranty, even though it was 3 years old, but I felt I couldn’t trust it. Hence, the importance of buying best first time.
Gigrig G2 and G3 beginner switchers. Interesting. I guess nobody told Neil Finn and the rest of the professional musicians that use them.
He missed an opportunity to acknowledge that. I think the point was more about G2 being straightforward enough for beginners to pick up quickly, not about the quality being consistent with a “beginner” switcher.
does the es-8 have isolated outputs that are phase reversible? of all of the switchers out there.. this seems like one of the most important things for a switcher to have but I'm finding a lot of them lack it
No and no. You would need to have something like a Lehle P split on top of one amp to isolate it and have polarity control. You could also get around the polarity thing by having one inverted speaker cable if the amps didn’t match up. If you kept them on the same grounds you may not need the galvanic isolation
Why did Voodoo Labs switching gear not make the list? Do you consider it inferior?
Absolutely incredible. Thank you.
Thanks Howard!!!
Couldn’t agree more Howard 👏
Hey Mason - Great content as always! What are your thoughts on the Morningstar MC8 with a Voodoo Lab Hex or ML5?
The Morningstar is a disaggregated unit, two pieces, not all in one. This makes it impractical to compare to these fully loaded switchers. Same with the Hex.
I feel like the person 3 description was pulled straight from Rhett Shull’s Wikipedia page 😉
hahahahaha
I’ve preordered a g3 atom for my wet/dry/wet board. I’ll use it for all my stereo pedals (6 stereo loops), and for the front end of my dry amp I’ll be adding a morning star ML5 (5 mono loops) which is super compact and can be slaved to the g3.
Cool! What are you using for the parallel mixer for the stereo wet effects?
@@VertexEffectsInc the g3 has at least one parallel mixer, but honestly I may run an impure wet (some dry) in order to run delay into reverb without loosing the initial sound (before the delays are happening) in the reverb. But I’ll play with doing the delay and reverb in parallel with kill dry too... I am also interested in running a couple delays in parallel though.
@@jessedaly7847 right but you can only have one effect in the mixer that's fully wet.
@@VertexEffectsInc I'm not sure I understand what you mean here, frankly i'm a decently smart guy with a math degree, but the whole parallel killdry signal chain thing can get pretty freaky pretty fast and I'm not sure I really get it all the time. But since the Atom allows you to change the mixer configuration and even pedal order per preset it's going to be a great platform for figuring out how to do this stuff, and experiment without having to rewire my board every time I'd like to try a different approach. I would have thought that you could run 2 stereo effects in parallel both in kill dry, being fed by the slave out of my dry amp and get a decent result, but maybe that's not what you are getting at? In any case I have a lovely analog stereo phaser, as well as a stereo tube tremolo, in addition to a pair of stereo delays and reverb, oh yeah and a chorus/flanger... So obviously i'll be having a less than pure killdry situation going on downstream of my dry amp. Now if I had stereo dry amps AND stereo wet amps...
@@jessedaly7847 you'd have to break the loops somehow, similarly to how you would do a 4CM set up, but fed by the line out from your dry amp into the switcher after you've already exited the switcher with your dry path. The line level input would feed your mixer with your 100% wet effects set to kill dry, however, I don't think you can have multiple parallel mixes in this unit and I'm also not sure if your trem or phaser go 100% wet, a lot of them don't and aren't designed to be "return only" effects like you'd see in a mix bus.
Bummed not to see the ML5 & the MC8
the omniports are a pretty awesome feature, love mine, mc6 is awesome too, and no more label making!
I use the MC8 and ML5, dig the screen and interface
Tho doesn't let you rearrange pedals any order or parallel routing
@@jessetoews2446 very true, i do miss that after leaving the G2
These are MIDI only so not technically a switcher.
@@racerx3065 that is the ML5 part mentioned in the original post
Great review! Which ones can switch between 2 different amps? Some of them have stereo outputs, but I guess these cannot be used to switch between 2 amps. Am I wrong?
You can also sacrifice a channel to get an A/B output, and use the send of the last loop as output A and the main output as output B.
For those wondering about the buffer specs of the Disaster Area, apparently they updated the manual info and it has an input impedance 1M ohm (which is sweet) and a selectable output impedance of 560 ohms up to 33k ohms (that last one a whopping number you will probably never need).
Cool, thanks for this!
A little surprised you didn't dig into the EFX LE II. Great buffers and buffer control. Loop reordering, parallel mixing etc.
It's mentioned in there I think...we talk about a few different models from Musicom Lab.
Nope. You mention the V but not the LE II.
The RJM stuff is top notch!! I love their switchers! And also a great company!
One of the best
I didn't see it mentioned but the best decision I've made regarding pedal purchases was the Boss MS-3. It's saved so much space on my board and it takes away all tap dancing I would have to do so it helps me perform better than being stuck behind my board the whole time. There's a handful of times I've taken some pedals off the board because some of the onboard effects sounded better than the ones I was using. I also like that it helps me save space on my board so I don't have to carry around a huge board. The MS-3 comes at my highest recommendation. It'll never leave my board.
Also, I know it's more of a Multi-Effects Processor but I bought it because of the Loop Switching elements. The only downside to the MS-3 is the ability to not be able to switch your loop orders but that's not a huge deal to me personally.
Because it's a multi effects I didn't mention it here. Check some of our early rig build videos and it's on there!
@@VertexEffectsInc For sure I totally get it. Just wanted to throw that out there for anyone reading these comments that may not wanna go as big with the other switchers like me. I got it as a switching system first and an effects unit 2nd
I'm actualy having a hard time finding a good switcher that has a good price, what I'm actualy looking for is one where loop mode(just turning on a specific loop) and preset mode at the same time. Where i can just put drives in a loop mode and all modulations, delay, revebs, on preset. making it that i turn on 1 loop for all drives, then just kick 1 button to add a specific preset where all the combination i need fr modulation or nay effects just add to it. It seems all pedal switcher are just either you are in a loop mode, or you are in preset mode. I hope there is such where you can choose per toggle switch wether its on a loop, or preset mode.
Check out EHX Super Switcher. It can switch to loop mode within an activated preset.
@@mrblablablabla thanks!
Hello Mason. Many thanks for all those very educative videos. I have a question regarding Musicomlab MK-V buffers. In the manual its stated that input buffer impedance is 2.2 M Ohm. On LE model its 1M Ohm. Is this something to be concerned about? I made some testing in the past and I prefer buffers you are recommending. I would like to get MK-V but this might be a dealbreaker for me
They switched to 1M years ago and just didn't update the manuals. I've confirmed with the Musicom.
@@VertexEffectsInc many thanks for info!
@@VertexEffectsInc Ohh,,you mentioned it already in the video. I missed that. thanks again
…. I know some of these words!
Have you done a video on your Wet-Dry-Wet Build? Would be interested in seeing that. Thanks, this was VERY INFORMATIVE. I'm in the Contemplation zone right now, but know I will be getting a Switcher this Year, Sometime. Also, now you have to Look at the Brand New Carl Martin?
Not yet, working on it slowly. I've seen the new Carl Martin, it's not quite like these, more like the Voodoo Lab DingBat series stuff.
Great Video Mason, you're turning me into a Pedalboard Expert!!!
Glad to hear it!
Hello...
I need your help...
This is my Wet-Dry-Wet rig... [Guitar-Cry baby-Boost-Volume-Tube screamer -Amp input...OUT to Suhr ISO, first Speaker thru to cab(dry signal),Second speaker thru to -Strymon Ola... L-R out to TimeLine...L-R out to Big Sky...input to Power stage 700 stereo amp left and right...left out to cab1 and right out to cab 2(my two WET signal)]
How can I do the same rig with GigRig G3...???
As I can see we have one guitar input and two output [that's easy for stereo sound...] In my case I need one output for my dry signal and two outputs for my wet [Left end Right] signal [to connect my stereo amp]
How can I do that...?
Thank's in advance...
You basically do it like you would the 4 cable method option but I don't know how many stereo loops there are on the G3 - you'd need to be able to feed the stereo effects to do this right and maintain the stereo image throughout.
Loved the video! Mason, are there any other products like the Parallelizer? I do believe that the Wetter Box by Gig Rig is one, and then there are the rackmount line mixers. But is there anything else that's pedalboard friendly?
It's not the same product. The Wetter Box, or even the Xotic X Blender (what preceded the Wetter Box), are only a single loop with no dedicated dry (just a mix knob, fully left is dry, fully right is wet, but most of the effects still have dry in them so...not really a wet/dry rig) - they're not really designed for a wet/dry/wet rig specifically. The Parallelizer is actually pretty small, smaller than you think, stereo, and has three stereo mixes and a separate dry mix and all the effects inside it should be set to kill dry or return only.
@@VertexEffectsInc got it. Thanks!!
I'm looking for one that won't break the band, thoughts one the Blackstar live logic 6-button or MeloAudio midi commander?
For the majority of people a $100-$150 Joyo PLX8 will cover most of your needs.
I didn’t understand most of what Mason just said. It’s not his fault. I know what I need a switcher for, just not how to make it do it. I don’t plug any of my pedals into a computer for any reason eg. UA. So how do I do this?
A switcher can run your pedals , so you do not need to turn the knops anymore and you do not switch 2 or 4 Pedals On at the same time, you just step on the switcher where you did say turn on delay and distortion with the knops turned on 12 O clock bla bla like you would love to play the pedals.
There are switchers you can program on to you PC, so you can tell it what to do , but not all switchers you programm onto your computer like he said in the video.
is it possible to have the musicom lab mkV to switch individual pedals on/off and have a button to switch amp channels accessible at the same time?
Yes, I think all these switchers can do that.
I opted purchase the Voodoo Labs PX-8, which has met my needs well… up until I added Iridium and Collider to my rig.
It has MIDI capability but I cannot figure out how to do that yet 😞.
Great content as always Sir.
If you put your ability to explain things to simpletons like myself into a switcher, you’d score a win.
Have you tried reaching out to Voodoo Lab?
Extremely new to this, but I’m not exactly concerned with programming specific patches, I just want a system that allows me to turn certain pedals on and off from one location. Would the EXH work well for this?
Sounds like you want a switcher...the EHX is the lower end. I'd say Boss would be a better starting place.
Person 4: Tech Guru who is super lazy .. ill eventually get to it lol. Somebody needs to really UX and redesign midi to make it idiot proof
A $400 switcher for a beginner who just wants to try stuff out?
For $400 or under brand new, there are two switchers with 8 loops and midi support: Voodoo Labs PX-8 and the Disaster Area DPC 8EZ gen 3. Both made in USA and the PX-8 model comes with a 5-year warranty.
Mason, a question for you. I'm considering the RJM PBC6X and am concerned about the input buffer. I'll be using a fuzz that hates a buffer in front of it. Do I need to change anything in order to not let the input buffer of the switcher affect the fuzz pedal?
You can bypass the buffer on any fuzz preset - no problem
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks Mason!
@@VibhasPatil anytime!
Gigrig is a fantastic product, Dan really runs a great company. Their MIDI14 was great sounding, lots of functionally. The next gen G2 took it to another level, but the MIDI14 still could be figured out by new users.
I suppose we'll see when the G3 really gets out there. I think the G2 has value for a lot of users as outlined here.
Incredible video thanks! So glad to hear about smaller switchers and different brands I hadn’t heard of
Would you still put separate input and output buffers on either side of a more simple true bypass switcher like the gigrig quartermaster?
Yes, buffers on the input and output always!
Thanks for the rundown. Went with the Boss ES-8, because second-hand units are really good value in UK, around £300 - which gives you a lot for the price of just 3 cups of coffee ;) The Disaster Area is about that price new, ever here. Might have gone ES-5, except they only go for £40-50 less than the ES-8. I guess people value the small size of the ES-5. But I need a couple of stereo loops for loopers, and delay/reverb. Chase Bliss Mood, Cosmos / Polymoon, Mercury X.
does anyone know what someone wanting to be a one man band would use if they had an amp with one input. but wanted to run say a microphone, guitar, and keyboard to it. and have a pedal to switch from instrument to instrument with only one running at the push of a button. ( so they don't interfere with each other) then use a looper and create a multiple layer song?
You need the Radial Voco Loco!
I’m person #1. And I had no idea the Gig Rig was so expensive.
There are alternatives as you saw if you want to spend less.
I posted this in a reply here but I think it’s worth mentioning. I have had the Boss ES-8 for several years now and even though there are 8 loops I came to the point where I needed an extra loop and I had run out. It was after a bit of consideration that I realized that my 2 midi controlled pedals, Strymon Timeline and Bigsky, do not need to run through the two stereo loops and could actually just go in the chain on the out of the es-8 switcher. This would free up two additional stereo channels to use. How I then turned the Strymon pedals on and off was by simply always sending a midi command to each pedal since I use the ES-8 in song set mode using presets. When I want to turn the delay or reverb off I send a midi command from the es-8 to that pedal to change to a “dry” preset I’ve saved on that pedal. This in turn means the pedals wet effect is not affecting the signal so it’s the same as if I had turned the loop off. Hope this helps someone. This in theory would work with any switcher that had midi functionality. Great Video!
This is the best review of midi switchers I have seen. Ever.
Glad it was helpful!
Saw your past video on switchers and now I'm thinking of getting one so I don't have to tap dance around all my pedals. Only problem is, I'm having trouble finding one that is compact enough to fit on my pedalboard, but has at least 5 switches, can accomdoate most of my pedals, can switch the clean/dirty channel on my Mesa Boogie Mark V, and can work with the "4 cable method" of FX In/Out of my amp for my effects and noise gate. My current setup looks like Tuner>Noise Gate>Synth>Digitech>Volume>Wah>Compressor>Big Muff>Phaser>OD>Front of Amp and then Effects Send>Tri-Chorus>Delay>Reverb 1>Reverb 2>Loop Station>Effects Return. Any suggestions?
Well...you tuner doesn't need to be in the loop. Nor does the Volume and wah. Those can be before. If any of your pedals have MIDI like the Chorus, Delay, or Reverb, they can live out of the looper as well and be controlled via MIDI. RJM is my favorite.
I've been looking at the Joyo PXL PRO. Has two triggers for channel switching, etc. (four on the PXL LIVE), and runs about $165.
I suspect it's not on par with these in the video.
@@VertexEffectsInc True, but not everyone has $300+ to spend on a loop switcher.
Great video! Will you be making a video of your WET DRY WET PBC6X rig? I have a PBC6X myself and have been wondering what the best way to go about routing this setup is? I’m having issues with isolation/grounding issues right now. Not sure how to remedy this and hoping you’ll talk about it.
Yes, I will be! I'm not using the PBC to do the Wet/Dry/Wet...it's not great for that internally.
Do you personally re-order your effects, and how important to you personally is a loop switcher's ability to do this?
Not critical...most people never end using this feature
Hey! Thank you for this great in depth video! I was wondering… I always play in stereo, but actually heard the first time about isolated audio outputs.. always leaned towards the RJM PBC6 for my future midi controlling.. do you think you would prefer the MK5 when it comes to playing in stereo? Is the difference really that big? 😊
I'd pick the boss es-5 but i never used one to select an amp channel and now i have an engl so i have no idea how to use it to select the channel and to turn on and off the engl's mid boost, can you explain how should i do that?
Not sure how the ENGL is doing it, via DIN cable or via TRS but either way the ES-5 can do it, you might need to get an adaptor to make it work, but it will.
I bought the cheap truetone buffer for the end of my pedals but I just bought a tc polytune 3 tuner with a buffer at the front of my pedalboard. In your expertise do you think I need another truetone buffer for the front of my polytune tuner with buffer?
You can use either as your input buffer, and use the truetone as the output buffer at the end of the chain. You don't need three unless you're running stereo.
@@VertexEffectsInc ok, great thanks! I had a line 6 hd147 head, so I never needed to actually learn this but I recently bought a Mesa boogie triple rectifier and I’m now learning about tone suck! Thanks again for your help!
@@americafirst847 anytime!
@@VertexEffectsInc I finally got the polytune at the front and the Truetone buffer in the back and it sounds amazing! Thanks for the tips. This channel is amazing, I’ve learned so much from you. So, thanks for everything.
@@americafirst847 I'm so glad! Thanks for watching! Happy to help!
Are you going to make a video showing how to modify the switcher from 500k to 1meg? I wonder why that switcher was 2 Meg's and they changed it to 1 Meg because why not just keep it at 2megs because you get more high end. All the switchers use relays? But each switch will have signal loss because of the type of relay switch they are using for each loop has a relay switch that will have a drop in signal loss and the specifications of the switcher they often leave out this information in the specifications. It's not going to be a 1:1 ratio from input to output for each loop?
I'll check with Ron and Sheri before I do...I don't want to give them any headaches as a result. 2M isn't what the loading of most amps would be or the way your guitar pickups would see the amp input.
Mason, wonderful overview, was happy to see all of the switchers I’ve been considering in the rundown. I do have one question, actually I (we) need clarification on conflicting statements. On the RJM PBC6X in the recommendation portion of the vid you state it CAN change loop order, then in your personal choices segment you contradict that and say that the RJM equivalent (6X?) of the EFX MK-5 matrix doesn’t allow positioning, loop order. Could you clarify that please? Effect order/ loop priority is important to me, and up until your recommendation I was “PBC/6X all the way baby”…now I’m simply Whaaa…? I’ll head over to RJM and see if I can sort that out. If I do go with the 6X I’ll talk with the owners about that inlet buffer spec.
Both the RJM PBC6x and the EFX MKV can change loop order. The RJM PBC10 cannot.
@@VertexEffectsInc there we go! Thanks….In reflection it was more of an ambiguity with respect to which of the two RJM units you were referring to. Clarification very much appreciated as are many of the videos you shoot. George
Nice video very informative. I'm a big fan of the Boss MS-3 since I just don't need anything more and the built effects sound great. A simple budget midi controller without loops is Disaster Area Design DMC -7 or similar which you can pickup for less than 100 US used. It all comes down to budget and purpose.
Nice! Thanks for watching!
I’d like to take a moment to acknowledge Mason’s articulation and the video production values; this is great content. 👍
I m using a ms3. And i really like the CURNUM function. Does the boss the boss es 8 have the same function where I can press the same preset twice to add/remove effects on my loops
I’m not sure but that would be easy to determine with the manual
The use of TRS insert cables is sucking my will to live... Sick of this BS because no one makes quality right-angle inserts... They are all cheap crap with no shielding... ☹️
You can always make your own, we also sell insert cables on Sweetwater's site: www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=vertex+insert all Mogami cables and Square Plug ends.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yep, just make your own!
As a "customer #1" this is a fantastic review. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Awsome video! I was wondering, if there is a switcher out there that can do the change order thing for 18 pedals? Im using the es8 for that now, but im still stuck with the order on some pedals bc they are in the same loop. Two es8's wont work in that way unfortunately. Would be great to hear your thoughts!
No, not that I know of. Not 18 pedals. I think the G3 can do 12. RJM can do 10.
I can't wait to see al these musicians in real live action again with there amazing pedalboards.
Me too!!!
I'm sometimes blown away by how many people go for the boss models and then not use any of the clever routing, mixing, panning functions. The thing can do magical things.
On that note, opinions on the boss ms3? Is the component quality on the same level?
I just don't put it in with these since it's more multieffects than switcher.
Which do you think would be best for a bassist (where the buffer impedance usually differs)?
Thanks in advance. And keep rocking’ the vids 😉
Any of them, you could always bypass the input buffer on most of these and use your own.
Question. I want to take all my pedals off board and put in rack drawers where they’ll stay. It’s 6 pedals between the guitar and front of AxeFxIIXL+, pretty simple right? My floorboard will just be my MFC101 and a pedal switcher IF I understand this switcher or loop switcher thing correctly. The routing and/or things needed have me pretty fn stumped.
1- I need some kind of loop/switcher right, but do I need something in the rack like an interface or a device that communicates with the AxeFx and the floor switcher?
2- Can a switcher have a “Y” function so that I can control the pedals independently in my rack but switch over to my Fryette power amp with that same loop of pedals? Out of the 6 pedals I have I only ever run one at a time so no real loops happening I just need to control them from the floor.
Thanks so much for any and all help provided
not sure if i'm understanding your question correctly, but i think if you wanted to keep your pedals in the drawer you'd need something like the Morningstar MC6 on the floor and then the ML10x in the drawer (amongst some other options). The switchers in this video would be on the pedalboard in front of you.
just got the voodoo gcx and ground control pro for that exact reason. Love it
Gigrig G3 + gigrig extension kit could help
Hmmm... not so sure about this. The gig rig and RJM would fit into all three categories. Musicomlab efx-ME is fine for person one and two...
RJM isn't so easy to program for a bigger having worked with many that buy this switcher but can't use it. Equally Musicom is among the best software programs out there up there with RJM. Not sure that's so easy for a beginner either.
Excellent recommendations!! Thanks, Mason! What about the Morningstar system? I would like some review at some point, because as everyone else I know you know your stuff, and we trust you! Again, thanks for all these videos you put out there!!
Well, all their stuff is usually sold out out of that says anything.
Morningstar MC8 with a ML10X
No ML5!? I couldn’t find anything that would make more sense than the ML5 if you want midi but simple
It's not an integrated unit...not a comparable product to what we've included here by that metric.
Mason, another question I have about routing with switchers. I have a few pedals that have a single input and dual outputs (a Boss CH-1, an MXR 10 band EQ). I currently run the Boss in mono with my switcher, and the first output of my MXR goes into my switcher, and then the second one goes out into the second input of my Roland JC40. That line is only engaged when that pedal is in the loop I’m using, if that makes sense. How would I run multiple pedals like this into that second Roland input? I’m considering getting a Boss flanger with the same type of setup. Only thing I can imagine is like a box where it has 3 inputs for those 3 extra outs on those pedals, then a single cable into that second Roland input. Hopefully this makes sense. Is this possible? What gear would make this work? Thanks Rig Dr!
The switcher is a Voodoo Lab PX8 plus!
Thank you for this! I think the ES-8 might be the one for me. The Musicomlab unit I tried a couple of years ago was to difficult to program from the unit.
Got myself a new MusicomLab EFX-LE II for 410€, shipping cost included. Should arrive this Friday. What a bargain!
Great unit!
Great informative vid as always. After having an es8 (which shit the bed just out of warranty. 😭) and now es5 I can defo say the boss ones are pretty versatile! Would like to get my hands on a g3 atom at some stage.
Nice! But bummer on the Boss!
Spot on about Boss units. They also come with software
Boss is great, easy to use.
I hope someone can help me out. I recently bought the EVH Iconic 40 watt combo. I love that amp and it's features. Unfortunately the foot switch can only channel switch and activate the boost feature. I really want to use a switcher that can enable me to create patches where I can switch channels, have the boost stored in my lead patches along with the "Burn" function stored in patches. What I'm trying to achieve is making that amp a true 3 channel amp with boost. Unfortunately, the combo is not MIDI and the "Boost" is only footswitchable.
Thanks to all in advance, I really appreciate it.
You can use products from RJM to convert your amp switcher into a MIDI signal and control it from your programmable switcher.
@@VertexEffectsInc
Thanks so much for the info. I was looking into the Voodoo Labs Control Switcher too. I'm hoping one of these units will do what I want in regards to making presets with the different functions only accessible from the control panel.
Love your channel. You're like the modern day Bob Bradshaw
DisasterArea DPC8EZ - You said it "can't reroute the order" but your pointers that were popping-up on screen says "change loop order". Was that a typo? FYI. Yes, I'm a newbie on the topic of switchers.
I don't believe it changes order, I think it was an oversight on our end.
Why do so many get the buffer wrong? Is there a different school of thought or is it a cost saving measure?
Most designers aren't rig builders or guitar players and often build to the lowest common denominator.
I am currently putting together my board and this channel has been a blessing! You have also answered all of my questions in the comments which I am really grateful for, so thank you!
I have one more if you don’t mind 🙃
I have a Boss ES-8 and I’m wondering if it’s ok to put a pedal in the volume loop to gain an extra loop. Is this something you have done before?
Glad to help! You can put any pedal in the VP loop, doesn't need to be a volume pedal you just won't have an IA footswitch for it unless you program that or use an external switch of some kind.
@@VertexEffectsInc Great! Thank you
I totally agree!
As long as I've played guitar 25yrs... I've never had or considered a switcher. I run a traditional stomp box setup, into a M13, into Fx loop of my amp. My question is can a "switcher" recall different settings/dials from your analogue pedals, for each preset? Ex: for one I have my Earthquaker Palisades set to OD mode low gain, then on another switcher preset have it set to palisades fuzz heavy gain? Or can it not do that, and when the switcher calls up that pedal it's stuck to whatever dials you have it on? What about a digital pedal, like a HX stomp? can you have the switcher call up different fx and settings from the Stomp, and assign them to different presets on the switcher?
The Switcher can't adjust settings on an analog pedal, but it could for your M13 or HX Stomp.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks for the reply and clarification Mason! It would be a game changer if it could recall analogue pedals... I got so many analogue pedals with so many flavors in the box, like the EQD Palisades having so many different drives, or an EQD data corruptor, 3 settings I love on there, but the downside is having to quickly dial in those different sounds from the same pedal... within a song while performing live? very difficult, then with 2-3 pedals lol nope. looks like digital midi stomps hooked up to a switcher has amazing potential. which is why I love the m13 so much with stomps. with my M13 i set each row to different songs or set lists. I can have the same effects like delays on top of each other, but different settings.
Tom just FYI - there are also a number of pedals that have an analogue signal path, look and behave like old school pedals with knobs and switches, and can be used exactly like the rest of your analog pedals, but they also have a MIDI “brain” that allows you to change presets (the knobs generally won’t move, but the sound will change). Just to give one example (there are dozens) based on your example above for wanting to flip from low gain to fuzz, the Chase Bliss ‘Brothers’ has two channels of boost/drive/fuzz and you can select any of those, or combination thereof, using a switcher (and also changing your M13 or HX Stomp preset at the same time with one press of the switcher). I don’t have any affiliation (I do own a Brothers), and there are loads of peels like that to chose from now.
@@onenotesolo256 thanks for the info!
@@tomzeto actually there is a auch device coming that you are talking about. It’s called the „gecko tool“
It basically lets you motorize any knob on any pedal or amp, a total game changer. What you can do then is control these knobs with exp or with pre programmed presets… total game changer, can’t wait to get mine haha
Hey Mason, thanks for making this video. I’m very torn between the RJM 10 or 6x... loop reordering is awesome but does having the bigger unit (10) make it easier to manage turning things on and off on the fly? Also, I know I could run 2 of my pedals stereo and through midi rather than the loops on the 6x so that way I have room for the other pedals but are there any advantages of having the two pedals (strymons) connected via midi as well as having them in the stereo loops?
You could look at the new Musicom Lab EFX-VI it has 11 loops all re-orderable.
@@VertexEffectsInc what if I wanted to stick to RJM? I love their products... would the fix to loop re ordering be tearing the board apart and reorder manually essentially? And is there much of a difference if I have midi connected vs midi AND loop connected strymons? Sorry I don’t know if this makes sense...
@@VertexEffectsInc Do you know if the VI can do parallel? I know the V can but don't see anything about it in the manual for the VI.
I would also like to know Mason's thoughts on the second part of your question. I have two Specular Tempus pedals and one Synesthesia, and a large number of different drives. Also trying to decide between PBC 10 and 6X
For European PPL check out the G-Lab GSC 4, it has a very cool display and isnt that expensive
Are they still made?
@@VertexEffectsInc not 100% sure. I got one and it's amazing, you find a lot on reverb even down to 350. However I probably go for the disaster area sooner or later because of space.
I am new to the world of midi, and I ordered EHX Super Switcher few days ago. Your suggestion makes me confident on my decision!! Thanks Mason
Have fun! Good luck with the build!