Severity Levels & Obstacles to NPD Treatment - Narcissistic Personality Disorder
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- Опубликовано: 19 авг 2024
- Order The Borderline Personality Disorder Workbook by Dr. Fox: goo.gl/LQEgy1
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is on a spectrum and the degree of impaired functioning and impact on self and others is commensurate with that level of severity. In this video I’m going to discuss the 3 severity levels and the obstacles to overcoming NPD.
NPD is a complicated disorder and treatment typically takes years. The more severe it is the greater the time required, but also the worse the prognosis. Remember, you can suggest or encourage someone seek treatment but you cannot make them do it. If you think you have NPD, you can find many strategies to help you. If you’re in a relationship or know a loved with NPD, you cannot do the treatment for them. He/she must decide for themselves and I know that’s hard for many loved ones.
Daniel J. Fox, Ph.D., is a licensed psychologist in Texas, international speaker, and award winning author. He has been specializing in the treatment and assessment of individuals with personality disorders for over 15 years in the state and federal prison system, universities, and in private practice. His specialty areas include personality disorders, ethics, burnout prevention, and emotional intelligence.
He has published several articles in these areas and is the author of:
The Borderline Personality Disorder Workbook: An Integrative Program to Understand and Manage Your BPD. Available at: goo.gl/LQEgy1
Antisocial, Borderline, Narcissistic and Histrionic Workbook: Treatment Strategies for Cluster B Personality Disorders (IPBA Benjamin Franklin Gold Award Winner): goo.gl/BLRkFy
Narcissistic Personality Disorder Toolbox: 55 Practical Treatment Techniques for Clients, Their Parents & Their Children: goo.gl/sZYhym
The Clinician’s Guide to Diagnosis and Treatment of Personality Disorders: goo.gl/ZAVe9v
Dr. Fox has given numerous workshops and seminars on ethics and personality disorders, personality disorders and crime, treatment solutions for treating clients along the antisocial, borderline, narcissistic, and histrionic personality spectrum, emotional intelligence, managing mental health within the prison system, and others. Dr. Fox maintains a website of various treatment interventions focused on working with and attenuating the symptomatology related to individuals along the antisocial, borderline, narcissistic, and histrionic personality spectrum (www.drdfox.com).
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Dr. Fox’s website: www.drdfox.com/
Facebook: / appliedpsychservices
Twitter: / drdanieljfox1
LinkedIn: / drdfox
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Amazon Author’s Page: amazon.com/author/drfox
Thank you for your attention and I hope you enjoy my videos and find them helpful and subscribe. I always welcome topic suggestions and comments.
Thank-you for this. I was diagnosed with NPD a while ago, and it's hard to find anything online about our treatment that isn't outright hateful. I am in schema therapy for it and it's going really well, it's been a really hard journey to get there or even accept therapy, but I'm confident. A thing people don't realise about us is the trauma we have come from. My childhood was so severe and violent and sadistic, I developed NPD (along with a whole bunch of other stuff). I really appreciate actual information online, instead of people who think they married a narcissist and are now obsessed with hunting us.
Schema therapy is great!!
Hi, i have NPD too .How old r u??
I was diagnosed in 08 and I’ve only been in therapy for the last couple years because I didn’t accept the diagnosis or that anything was wrong with me and it’s frustrating to have the amount of just bad information online that is of no benefit to anyone really but particularly for someone who has the disorder. I focus on a handful of resources and block out the rest as background noise
@@fishstix1900 hey, how old r u?? I believe that I am narc too, can we be friends?
I am the recovery empath in therapy and we are disecting my ex boyfriend. I tell the therapist about the clues I discovered in seven years that clues me in on why he is a Narc or BPD. I stayed with him because I understood why he was this way but he got so abusive that I had to say enough is enough and he woud go to counseling. I told him we both can go together..he said "no they will get on me for my drinking and gambling". I thought to myself..no, drinking and gambling are the symptoms not the problem..but he doesnt see that..
You have a very unique way of holding on to a topic like NPD, it’s a clear description although there is a part where you describe dysfunction, but they can be extremely successful in doing one particular thing in their work as well(workaholics) and extremely good (almost robotic inhumane like), seeing that as a bystander (survivor) can be very confusing. But again keep sharing your views you have a solid way of expressing them into a short video very helpful. Thanks for your time!
My partner 15 years finally left me over what she would call my “ narcissist behavior” I wish I would’ve would’ve done the research earlier I am A obsessive compulsive antisocial covert narcissist.. I was finally able to recognize it I amit and seek treatment it’s only been a short time it’s been very difficult!! I was trauma bonding her and didn’t even know it she was throw me a life ring and I was just Drowning her with me.
it takes a big person to look at themselves & see how they’ve let their loved ones down. those names are very cruel to hear when you’re doing what you think will work but diving into this subject will only give you more tools to unpack the strangeness of being
Abandonment anxiety is also common in the npd and bpd and enmeshmentt anxiety.
This is very helpful, thank you for making this video.
It is very difficult to hear that treatment is so difficult, but also a relief to know that it is possible. Overcoming this seems particularly challenging, and having comorbidity with BPD must only exacerbate the difficulties.
I feel like you are one of the few people on this site who recognize and have empathy for how much impact these disorders have on the client. Thank you
It's difficult to seek help for NPD because NPD makes you the "bad guy". Someone with BPD suddenly starts screaming and swearing at people, we pity them. But if a person with NPD rolls their eyes at someone, we hate them.
It's a bit off putting for those who want to change but don't want to be demonized. Let's face it, it's a big step for us to realise that we just might be wrong. It's another to expect us to sit there and be told we are bad. If we could take that, we wouldn't need help.
This is SO TRUE. I once got called manipulative and abusive because I said that in a relationship I like to anticipate my partner's needs and give them what I think they want. I was told this was coercive and I didn't know how to love. I've also been told I must not love my children, that I must be grateful of the horrific childhood I had because it made me into who I am today, that I will abuse my children, and that I'll never love or be loved. Considering the people who say these things keep identifying as empaths I'd love to know why they can so often justify being hateful and cruel because, as far as I know, that's a very narcissistic and antisocial trait that I've had years of therapy to undo. There's a reason BPD and NPD are in the same cluster, we all need to understand eachother. I have had so many people with BPD do so many manipulative things to me and the second I ever mention that I'm evil. Like sure my ex thought I was grandiose and overconfident, he said I lacked empathy and he was probably right. But every time I told him I'd leave, he would threaten to kill himself. That wasn't NPD.
Definitely, these people don't help to fix the problem, they just talk about how inhuman and hurtful it is and similar to what you said, if all the crying actually got through to us alone, it wouldn't be a big problem and we wouldn't need professional help.
Absolutely agree. It was very hard for me to look for help for people with NPD on the internet and only find help *against* people with NPD, like I was some kind of plague. I hope this is just a trend (possibly caused by Donald Trump 's sudden extreme media presence) that will die down soon. Much love.
As a person with BPD, my actions have never brought me pity. If anything, the complete opposite. My BPD was and has been used against me by doctors, therapists, friends, family, etc. A lot of folks think personality disorders are BS. I live in the South East and it's rare to find someone who knows what BPD even is. I think your statement was a bit general, that's it.
Honestly, as a person who has suffered from a parent with NPD it’s hard to not “demonize” someone with NPD because let’s be honest, people with NPD aren’t just rolling their eyes at someone. They put those closest to them through so much abuse. Especially mentally and emotionally.
Acceptance is the one thing that my mom and my siblings and I needed from my dad. He couldn’t do that though, but that’s the hard part when it comes to most narcissists, they don’t accept they’ve hurt someone. They don’t accept that they are in fact the “bad guy”. They flip it on everyone around them. So my advice would be to take the responsibility. The first step to recovery is acceptance and GENUINE acceptance at that. I wish you well in your recovery!
Hi, just a message to all the narcissistic abuse victims, I'm a recovering vulnerable narcissist and I've seen all the things you write and I'm not offended or resentful and I appreciate that you've suffered a lot and that your suffering is real and you're trying ensure that you and the ones around you are protected, but every time I read something that generalises people with NPD as being incurable, unchangeable and just using everything against you, I actually lose the motivation to even bother with therapy or to take recovery seriously because I actually find myself believing what you people say or thinking that what you say is false so the fault must be with you, so my message to you folks is that I don't believe you talking the way you do fixes the problem that, I assume, you want so badly to end.
I was tortured by a narcissist for 3 years, although I did allow it to go on for so long, and I have to say I give you major kudos for getting help (I'm not perfect either).. Please don't give up. I believe the person I dealt with was very rare, and I am starting to see the wide variety of narcissism. I think you are right. Both sides need to open up and share.
I think that it is just hard for victims to show any empathy for the other side, which just is a cyclical hate pattern.
Typical narcissist, trying to blame others for your lack of motivation. We can say whatever we want. When you manipulate and play victim it demotivates us, how about that.
I appreciate what you are saying. There’s a lot of stuff thrown in everyone’s way when on the path to healing. It’s not easy to heal and recover, no matter what the “diagnosis” is. Our brains are hardwired for safety/security. However, the grain of truth hidden in your comment is that if you find it hard to take your recovery seriously that’s not on other people. It’s still on you.
Keep sifting through - move on and keep focusing on your decisions.
Thank you for the care and time you put into making these videos. They are tremendously helpful for me! My mother has been diagnosed BPD, but has also shown significant NPD traits. She is completely unwilling to seek treatment, even though she is homeless and hates it. Still she thinks she's a martyr (along the lines of biblical prophets and Jesus Christ himself) that is persecuted by everyone else. She is clearly suffering, and it hurts to see her that way, but like you said she has to want treatment before things can change for the better. She's in her 60's now. I don't have much hope that she will ever get to the point that she wants to change. It's pretty discouraging for me to think about.
Well I feel a little slow. But at least after 13 years I now can understand what the hell has been going on. I feel bad cause I have gotten upset at something they haven't been able to control for so long. Learning about this has me making all sorts of adjustments. The most important things I've found was to not criticize and not take offensive things personally, good thing I've been trained in customer service. This was the first video I watched. It helped. It's going to take some time to figure out the best way forward.
Interesting, but I don't feel like this helped me understand the degree of severity of my NPD. I found things that describe me in all three of the degrees you described. I'm guessing I'm probably on the mild side since that one seemed to be the best fit overall, plus my therapist said I was an "atypical" narcissist. Maybe it's not possible to come to a conclusion just from a short overview. Well, thanks in any case, all the best. If anyone with NPD reads this, you are not alone. You can get better. I love you.
Thank you and God bless you Dr. Fox for publishing your videos on RUclips. I've been in a relationship with someone who's definitely the most severe of three, for ten years. He adds to those behaviors you described, the most painfully hideous behavior of all in my judgement, which is to perform methodically, calculated, secretive, and severe, acts of vandalism upon every possible object in his eye view! To the point of destruction or left so desecrated as to becoming trash or do rags. It's a totally miserable place that I find me in. He refuses to own this behavior that usually ends in violent, shouting matches and my tears and no way to resolve anything. I'm desperately trying to learn anything to help myself since he refuses outright to admit to his sickness! Or, seriously seek help in how to end this Unbearably, painful relationship. I will binge- seek your channel for help. Thank you so much for being a beacon of light into my perishingly, fogged, life.
💖⚕️👍🕊️🔦🌫️😐
Can't you do 'grey rock'? stop caring for damaged things? He is getting a 'narcissistic supply'in this way.
Study as many channels as you can. Different people give different perspective. If you are stuck do something different.
A woman who was in such relationship for 25 years confirmed: your healing will take as much time as you were in such toxic relationship.
Forget about him for a moment.
How are you today?
Are your needs met?
What are your issues he is exploiting?
Put yourself first.
Without you the whole world is gone. Your world.
And why your world should spin around somebody's else life?
Is he your baby or an adult able to differentiate right from wrong?
(Rhetoric questions)
Hope you have been able to leave. I'm leaving my three year old relationship now.
I have watched 100’s of videos on NPD and I got over 75% of what I needed to know in this one. Thank You
Thank you Dr Fox for sharing the challenge that even therapists face when dealing these disordered people.
My husband is not described here. Where is the one where they seem like they’re perfectly normal. They are really great people. Would give the shirt off their back to a stranger. But when they come home to their family, they wouldn’t give them a shirt. They gaslight. Rage. Project. They take compliments as criticisms. You get cussed out if you don’t eat the raw food they cooked. Then they divorce you Bc your hard to live with. And even your family says you don’t deserve him. Bc he is so amazing. And you see the amazing too, he did love bomb you.. but he can’t be that way w you anymore, Bc you haven’t earned it since the beginning... He is so smart. So charming. And the devil.
This is a covert malignant narcissist. Covert meaning not openly displayed to everyone, malignant meaning cruel, a lack of empathy, callous, manipulative, gaslighting, as well as convincing others that YOU'RE the one with the problems.
@@ladybaabaa3294 I realized the covert. He also goes into vulnerable when the other acts don’t work. I told him I woke give him his divorce the end of March. I was done when on my bday I came to bed & went to snuggle against him & he pushed me off &
Told me I repulse him. I didn’t do anything. I knew he won’t get better w prayer & love. He’s too far gone. He left & came home a couple wks later. He wanted to talk to me. Told me how he only says mean things to me bc I say them first. I know I never say mean things. Ever. Unless I tell him he needs help bc he is not remembering things the way they happened. But I say it respectfully. I told him this time that is not true & I left the room. He followed me. He was arrogant & cruel. When he showed up in my bathroom he was crying & saying he is so tormented inside. I wanted to hug him so bad but he was just so so mean to me just moments before & I was confused. He started packing his bags again saying “you get me out of your life just like you have always wanted!” I said “you are divorcing me” 🤔 Hes delusional. 3 days later I get home & he’s making me dinner & telling me all the chores he did while waiting for me to get home. I ignored him. Took shower & went to sleep in the living room- bc he keeps getting in bed w me whether he hates me or loves me & I don’t want to pretend anymore. In the middle of the night he stood & was petting my head. I pretending to be asleep until he left me alone.
It makes me want to stay w him if he can just admit he loves me. I would be ok not getting love back. I just can’t take the mind games anymore. He can’t just be happy & live life. It’s sad. But I’m done now & hope to call him exhusand soon!
He stole all my money so I am starting from
Scratch. Sure he never actually wanted me to leave like he says. I see the manipulations now
@@Jezebel066 I feel how torn you are.
In the most basic terms, he will never change. And even if he says he loves you, what does that actually MEAN at this stage?
To him? "I need you so I can feel ok and not be alone. I need you to meet my needs and if you don't, I hate you because I'm so empty inside. If you DO meet my needs and are perfect, I love you. But it's only temporary. Because I only love how you make me feel when you do the right things for me. And to me, that is love."
To you? "He thinks he loves me. He DOES love me somewhere deep down, as much as his limited capacity to love allows. But is that enough for ME? Can I be happy living like this? Just because he says he loves me doesn't mean he'll be any different. He CAN'T be. So what LOVE do I want for myself? What kind of life do I want to live? How do I want to feel? Do I value emotional stability and respect from someone who claims they love me? I will never get that from him. Do I deserve to be TRULY LOVED? Or would I prefer to continue to let him hurt me, wear me down until I don't even care anymore - which is already happening - live constantly walking on eggshells and basically live a life as empty as he feels deep down?"
@@ladybaabaa3294 oh I am done w him. Just hard bc I have empathy & he is playing on that. But seeing the real him has caused so much trauma to my brain I have ptsd & anxiety attacks! It hurts me to see reality. The devil is real. Evil is real
@@Jezebel066 I'm so sorry for that. Something that can make it at least a bit easier to not feel too much empathy for him is to remember that when he acts nice or sad or whatever it is he's doing to try to get you back or make you feel guilty, it's not HIM. It's just a temporary behaviour with a specific purpose and it could change in 5 seconds.
Also, no matter how bad you may feel for him, ok...that's natural, because you do have empathy. Allow yourself that. But it doesn't change the fact that you simply cannot and will not be with someone who treats you so poorly. There is no point, unless you want to be unhappy.
Also remember you are not responsible for him, his feelings or his actions.
Wow. And healing from narcissistic abuse from my brother and parents, gaslighted and scapegoated, I feel has shaped me into one of them. I know it's true that whatever they said about me they're saying about themselves. What's really confusing is and the question becomes, when is it that we are in the mode of self-preservation, withdrawing with a hardened heart because it has been damaged to the point that trust has been vaporized? When is narcissistic abuse the perpetrator? Seems like it's a pathology.
I read recently that pathological narcissism is a trauma-based disorder, much like BPD, so while CBT can help change one's behavior, resolving the core phenomena associated with abuse is necessary to reach full resolution and effect lasting change. People with narcissism often learned to depend on themselves because there was literally no one else who would help them, so no wonder we avoid relationships! Self-protection is key here, and I doubt many of us actually want to hurt others in the process, though we often do so unintentionally. The other dimension that occurs to me is that many of us may find meaning and satisfaction in fighting against tyranny, where ever it may lie. This is really not an expression of childlike omnipotence, as is often inferred. In my opinion, it's the will to stand up to abusive others despite the potential risk involved, and that is very different from what most people will do. It's our mission, in a sense, and that's not pathological! It''s necessary in a world where the status quo prevails and others chose to collude in power plays that leave people disenfranchised or open to exploitation. I don't know about others, but I also tend to identify with victims, which also tends to be viewed as a penchant for self-pity unless its contextualized from the perspective of one who has been subjected to intense abuse. It's a way to be a witness for oneself and for those who have no voice. How has this quality been subverted into the idea that we constantly feel sorry for ourselves and care nothing for the suffering of others? This apparent pathology is based on stereotypes that have very little to do with how we experience the world, ourselves and the people in it. Give us some credit for the ability to be human and to contribute to the benefit of humanity despite our flaws and our wounding.
"Fighting against tyranny"? Spare me. You get a high off of your presumed moral superiority. You aren't fighting tyranny unless you are fighting for women's rights in the Middle East, or human rights in China. Because those people are not free to resist tyranny and oppression through legal options of making different choices. They don't have choices, and there is no legal protections for them. You derive meaning from helping people that likely haven't asked for your help. You assume they want your help because deep down you see them as incapable or inferior. You are stuck in the developmental stage that typically ends before college graduation. You have no legitimate reason to believe you can even free anyone from tyranny until you can free yourself from the tyranny of your own ego. Clean your room first.
@@laurenbatson5918 Not to mention the preposterous statement that people with narcissism often have to "depend on themselves". Their entire MO is to manipulate people in taking care of them and doing things for them.
This is great! Thank you so much for explaining it with such clarity and kindness. So many people label people who struggle with narcassim as evil and selfish but deep down at their core their almost like a injured child emotional and very fragile at times! I was diagnosed with npd over 15 years ago but have been through lots of therapy and had to learn how to have empathy for others and even had a subsequent assessment which said I no longer meet the full criteria for NPD although I do still struggle with some of the traits still.
That's interesting. We're u always devoid of empathy or did you have a small amount. Just curious
Thank you for the excellent video, Dr. Fox! A lot of useful information there. You mentioned that more severe forms of narcissistic personalities often function at the borderline level. That made me think that the divisions among the Cluster B personality pathologies are to a large extent artificial. Most people with such characters probably try to survive by developing and relying on various maladaptive "tools", be that excessive emotionality for BPD proper or martyr-like aloofness for NPD. But the underlying system of values and motivational forces are probably similar in most Cluster B types. Perhaps this is why Kernberg put them all under the same umbrella notion of "Borderline Personality Organization". Thank you again for your very informative, and also practically useful, videos. I always enjoy watching them and always learn something new and interesting.
+SK I agree. There isn’t much research to support the dsm clusters but they help clinically to identify personality patterns. The alternative model in the dsm-5 is a superior system of identification for treatment but slow to catch on. Thanks for the great comment.
Often lots of overlap in the cluster B group -it’s well described.
I just want to thank you for making this video. I am definitely #3. What I don't understand is that with strangers (the world) etc, I can be extremely empathetic and caring, I would say almost to an extreme. I am Christian and was taught the value of other's. For instance if I hear of a sad news story it can affect me for months and I will feel so bad for victims etc. Where most people would let it go after a while. But in my relationships, I will have moments of extreme empathy depending on the situation but otherwise don't show much empathy. I try to and with family it is hit or miss but I'm more empathetic to total strangers. I also don't listen to people well but always want them to hear me out. Definitely confusing to feel special, and like a nobody, to crave success and have daydreams of success, and feel like your biggest fear is to go no where in life. At times I feel I will never have a family, never be married, never have a career, but i always feel I deserve those things and feel like a victim.
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Narcissistics does not have self realization and will never have empathy
The severity of reality testing is important. The ability to distinguise inner from outer stimuli. Which is impaired when they resort to fantasy. They may project their issues on to others.This s where they tell on themselves what they have done or are entertain doing. But u say nothing. It's just knowledge for you to collect about who they are. Some will retain the issues they tried to hand to you via projection. Some or sometimes they then react towards others as if the others have the qualities that belong to them or they realize your not going to hold this feeling they can't tolerate because you know who you are and its their stuff so they end up retaining it and it doesn't feel nice so they typically lash out verbally. If they are physically abusive please seek help and use other techniques. I am speaking of non physically aggressive psychological abusers who have a little bit of an idea of what they are doing in private. The reason is they don't do it in public where others can see because that would ruin their false image of being such a helpful caring person. But if something makes them very angry they will slip up and display verbal aggression in public. They cannot look inside themselves. They blame others because they could never make a mistake. On their bad days non physically abusive narcissists feel terrible about themselves. They feel empty bored and often use (action discharge) action oriented methods o rid themself of this energy, driving around, doing physical things, focusing on the external But at times their superego tells some of them that they have failed at whatever. So then they use passive aggressive behaviors. They may at tgese time react as they are the biggest victim n the room although they ay have just verbally abused you for period of time. Leave the room if u can and tell them you'll talk later. You don't need o sit tgere nd take the verbal abuse. At the time you leave the room,the non violent types who psychologically abuse lose their power over you. They loose the control and high (if u will) Judgment and insight are impaired and must be evaluated on a personal basis and he talks about sabatoging themselves -there are degrees of this. The narcissist lies. But if antisocial features or dx occurs then its really bad. Because the narcissist already puts themselves above all others. If antisocial features are present or the diagnosis of antisocial personality is made then things are really bad. Physical abuse may occur. Lack of ability to see you as a seperate person with wants and needs goes along with narcissism. They think you should do what they say for they are so wise (impaired judgment,insight ,ect). Reality testing is impaired as they cling to this idealized image of themselves (false self).This is so important to them that anything that would point to the fact that they are not special is avoided by primitive denial (which is so strong and very low functioning- so yes mini psychotic event and psychotic events are possible. These people live in a fantasy ,like a movie in their head. They avoid reality based things like the plague because it would tell them they are not perfect and they fear humiliation abandonment and have issues with loss of their identity. Especially if they merge (boundary impairment) with others in their life to feel whole. They will never verbalize these issues. They often devalue others for simply being human and being vulnerable. Its all an act due to childhood trauma but the abuse they inflict on others is not normal. Most people don't understand what's going on with them. A word to the wise-if their behavior is different than their words follow the behavior-for that's the truth. Be careful as different levels of abuse may occur to you from physical to psychological. In healthy relations there is a give and take and a lets see if we can fix this problem by us both compromising. This isn't usually possible for them. Because if they compromise they are not superior (this is a defense against their feeling of inferiority) which crop up from time to time and then they step up their game to get back to the superior position by using things like word salad. A technique in which they are talking to you about some topic but their responses are all over the place and have nothing to do with the topic. This is them having the last word and being controlling. Don't respond or some people just give short answers like "interesting". To the non physically abusive types. Observe their behavior and responses but don't absorb it. Its not your issue, that come from them. Yes they would like you to take these issues they can't tolerate and hold them. When they project on to you and you don't react by nonverbally or verbally saying "oh you wounded creature i will hold this for you.you say that in your mind. The non physically aggressive types often become angry when u don't accept their issues for then they must keep them. Unless they reach psychotic levels and then react to you as if you have the issues that belong to them. Different ways of reacting to these perceptions of you not accepting their issues can occur from passive aggressive silent treatment to icy resentment of you. But in moderate to mild cases without antisocial activity it occurs because reality will penetrate and their superego will say you fool. They have comorbid (co-occuring) anxiety and depression due to this. Yes its complicated and not nice. But sometimes people can't leave because of lack of money or other circumstances. Its best to develop your boundaries ,you are you-your identity consists of being caring or other things look inside yourself and know who you are. When they are cutting you down its often their own stuff, look inside yourself and see how you feel about yourself ,your traits. At times of abuse when they say your angry or your terrible and you don't feel that way-don't verbalize it but hold on to it. If you can differentiate what comes from you and what comes from them then your self doubt should get smaller. They have been eating away at your confidence for a while. Yes i am a therapist sorry for the long winded verbalizations. But i would like to help you start to heal from narcissistic abuse. Meditation helps me.
One more thing malignant narcs discard people in my experience and coverts the vulnerable narcs that fly under the radar and have the oh so caring public persona- they neglect. Be careful of any physical or psychological abuse. If my methods i described cause more physical abuse dont use my methods. But please get help.25% of people who undergo narc abuse try suicide and i don't want that for you.
Thank you. Spot on in your summary as well . I have experienced it at the hands of a covert female spouse for 20 yrs. We split up in mid 2017. She begged me back in March 2018. My first day back she tells me of like 8 people that she was "Seeing" while we were split. Still Married though. She tells me of these people and some of her "activities" including swinging in such a nonchalant way and then says but I never saw anyone else in the prior 14 years together. She then asks me with a straight face, "Didn't I do good"? Of course , 9 months later she picks back up wwith like 4 of those guys and I'm discarded again and divorcing her again and fighting to have access to my child. The shame they suffer and the vitriolic anger and contempt for no apparent reason is frightening. We have to come uo with a way to take our families back from these types of people. They are such an aberrant group. There is simply no way that societies could have formed if everyone were as these people are.
@@sweetvictory3100 im a victim too but we should say survivor. If we show the parts of ourselves we don't like and talk and talk and talk. Heck use a notebook and go from one subject to the next so they cantt get a word in. And when they say they are confused. Say i don't know why and leave the room. This in jungian psychology is called our shadow side -and + thing that people told use not to do or wasnt socially appropriate. So we got rid of it hid it. But we can integrate it into who we are for there are positive and creative traits. Andi don't think talking nonstop once in a while and showing them that you can take all the oxygen out of the room.their need for constant validation is like anyones need for oxygen. And if they don't like not being able to talk then you just did what they always do. The only difference is you will take responsibility but don't tell tbem that.
Also i believe when you stop making excuses for their behavior -your probably not traumabonded any more and see things for how they really are. I practice observe don't absorb. So i watch like a scientist now shes gas lighting. I respond "really ".. Small amount if words is useful and stop trying to explain yourself they don't care. So sit back and observe and realize they will do this to anyone -so i know its hard try not to take it personal. If 8they were with someone else they would do the same thing. Win at all costs regardless of who you hurt. Then shes lying about something and if the silent treatment comes have something else to do. Do not sit there and be ignored like you don't exist. Leave the room and go do something else. If you have to leave the. House. Go do something else. And 1) the one who ignored you should be the first to speak,not you. You dont want to be a doormat. These are hurt people who cannot compromise they must always win even if they are acting like a 2 year old. Sorry im retired. Intergenerational trauma. The template we were raised with feels familiar unfortunately. Attachment theory is so rekavant.
@@sweetvictory3100 disabled also. When you can't make them look good to other or your disabled its too much of an inconvenience to them. They lack empathy. Sorry for you yes its very draining. Remember one thing you function higher than they do psychologically.ask for help as soon as you need it because they if tgey help you can get quite passive aggressive and make you wait.
Lots of narcissists kill themselves too. We were told from birth that we were unlovable, evil, hateful and would always be lonely. And then we spend the rest of our lives being scrutinised for everything we do. Only a small subset of narcissists are malignant. I have definitely tried to take my own life before now because of feeling I can never ever be loved and that the person I am is worthless, hateful and deserving of nothing but pain. And I never told everyone in the world I was going to do it. I quietly went outside at 4 in the morning, took a rope with me and found a tree. We are human beings, believe it or not. And narc hunters shouldn't revel in our pain. Especially when we personally have not hurt you.
I'm curious regarding the relation between personality disorders and an individuals cultural background. That's something I rarely read/hear about when discussing personality disorders. If anyone has knowledge of maybe a study or site regarding this please let me know. Thanks!
Thank you for mentioning kernberg in relation to npd. In my day 301.83 was the trouble. Maybe next time you mention masterson and take an object relaations approach!
you are the first one I hear who talks about the way I feel it. the disorder is patterns and it´s possible to get beyond. if the person is ready/ willing etc.. due to a previous experience I got interested in the topic realizng it´s not the first person I met and even I have developped good talking skills in the past there have been people this ain´t help as they are not willing/ able to be honest. I have spent so much time searching in the verbal plain offered the clue to bring change/ insight not knowing I was searching in the wrong field not realizing I have been presented lies. But I didn´t want to believe the general statemnet you can´t treat/ heal it. so thank you very much for that overview.
What’s the difference between a narcs dreams of success and a regular person dreaming and hoping and envision success?
Not a lot.
The main difference is someone with a narcissistic personality disorder will tend to believe them even when they are not plausible and without putting in the effort to attain them because of course that would expose them to the possibility of failure. Most successful people expect to fail over and over again, it’s normal to go beyond what is the norm if it were easy everyone would do it right. Well someone with NPD is more likely to not do it and just believe they can anytime they decide to
Maybe that they will abuse everyone around them to make themselves feel better 🤷♀️
not a lot, but the dreams just seem more skewed and unfeasible because the narc sees the world through a false self/inaccurate reality
A significant number of such people are Doctors in private practice so financially and professionally very successful but a screwed up family life.
Just cut off 2 old friends with this same problem. They were draining my energy with their bullshit.
Covert Moderate Narcissist(NPD) with some level of sociopathy. Looking currently for therapist to get myself into treatment. I use these ugly traits to get what I need and want. I don't do this with everybody, because some people are too cool to treat badly.
Hello Dr. Fox,
Love your videos! I have a question...Could a child of an NPD parent grow into adulthood with traits that are akin to NPD, but not NPD? In other words, could they act like narcissists but in fact have some form of PTSD instead?
Yes
Does someone with severe narcissism talk a lot, I mean want let you get a word at all!
Yes and many times it's "word salad" just talking to their audience (you) without anything particular really to say just talking not dialogue.
We like to talk. We think that what we are saying is very interesting to anyone smart enough to get it. But if someone is babbling non-stop, that sounds more like mania.
@@iconsnicos It's weird how people keep saying "word salad" to mean that when it doesn't mean that at all. Word salad is a term used to describe thought disorder often seen in schizophrenic patients, it doesn't mean "waffling on meaninglessly", it means literally stringing nonsensical and disconnected words and phrases together. Another armchair psychiatrist term that narc hunters have got wrong, but can't be told they're wrong, because people who hate narcissists and watch our every move have to be right about everything and constantly paint themselves as experts in a field they aren't qualified to weigh in on. Y'know. Like a narcissist would.
@@bipolarbeinganddoing8070 Word salad is so vegan... ;P I agree with what you said. What I do think they are trying to get at is the circular, pedantic style speech used to deflect, protect or over intellectualize a given conversation to confuse or work around what they are actually wanting to speak about or gain intel by poking and prodding different ways to get the answer they want. I do this subconsciously and I do it automatically unless I think back to that specific conversation to identify I have done so. I have narcissistic attributes myself i maybe a "typical narcissist" in terms of severity but it doesn't really matter because I function fine the way I am and I can hold a long-term relationship. I guess my question to you if your willing to answer is what led you to want therapy if you don't mind me asking?
Like theres a rebuttal for EVERYTHING you say. Like when you finally get a chance to speak, youre rudely interrupted. The narc really doesnt want to hear what you have to say.
I just did a round with a narcissist and thought I had left that behind when I left my mother to wallow in her own narcissism...
Hey doc, I'm aaryn. I just moved to Texas recently.
I was diagnosed with severe narcissism, manic depression, warped sense of reality, and delusions of grandeur by a doctor about 4 years ago. Right when I found out about his diagnosis, I thought he was literally so stupid and didnt know anything about me or what I've been through. I cant believe any of that because I've always wanted to be a good person but I'm starting to notice that I do have these issues. I manipulate people without even realizing, like purposefully stroking or extinguishing egos depending on what I want to hear. I want to become an extremely successful person and I work my ass off but I always end up quitting or getting fired. I've been through atleast 20 jobs and I'm 25 years old. I've been to 14 different schools, grew up with no dad and my mom was in prison. I fell inlove, had 2 kids, she left me and I lost my kids to social services. I currently moved states to get away from everything but I'm unemployed and being a burden on my family. I dont want anybody's help, I just want to be on my own, I hate being a burden on anybody. I'm not that type of person. I am extremely independent. I dont know I guess my point is that I'm starting to recognize that I'm kind of fucked up in the head and I really hate myself but I see this version of myself that I want to be, that i will be, but this stupid disorders are keeping me from being the person i want to be and I dont know what to do. I feel like I'm going insane and I should off myself but I know I cant because one day my daughters will need me in their lives
Kudos to you . you have some insight and would do well to try therapy. Remember how u willfeel about tge therapist. That be or she is stupid tgat's the disorder talking. Try to let the therapist lead you. You know what u normally do try to stop itor do the opposite. Try hard you sound like one tgat canbe helped. Remember self sabatoging relationships is a factor so try not to one up the people.
@@edgreen8140 Thank you maybe your are right I feel your genuineness
Do you have anything on counter dependency? I think that might be a good topic when talking about narcissism, as i think its something that could make a person think he might be a narcissist. And how these things differ etc. As both have grandiosity and tendency to abuse & control people. I would suspect the difference is that they do not have the same entitlement?
Nobody no in my clinical experience counterdepents are codependents who would rather hide their dependecy needs and act the opposite of the way they feel
Thank you for this information. I've been reading about 'object constancy', 'whole object relations' and disorganised attachment in relation to NPD and BPD and think they really help to explain some of the core issues. I understand that splitting and black and white thinking could be attributed to not achieving these milestones, and also not feeling an internalised sense of others and therefore not having developed a sense of self could be key factors in why these people react in the way they do. Is it possible for these developmental milestone to be reached as an adult eg gaining object constancy? I understood that in a healthy upbringing it is meant to be achieved as a toddler.
@N Silva sorry I didn't fully understand. So you think yes people can achieve it later in life or not?
Dr. Fox, thanks for the vedio. What's your advice to someone who has a loved one with antisocial personality disorder whom they want to help?
1. Why are you with him?
Usually they pray on kind people, i.e. with 'childhood injuries' (John Bradshaw), codependency issues.
Have you sorted them out? Broken person can't help anyone, really.
2. Are you strong enough? Do you have self confidence, strong self worth? rhinoceros's skin?
Then why is he with you?
They're full of fear.
3. Can you motivate him to face his fears? Scheherazade healed broken heart of her husband (betrayed by wife and brother) because he wasn't a narcissist. By being kind to a narc you will just give him his 'narcissistic' supply' and you may loose your own health in the process.
4. Run
5. Fix yourself and run (quietly is he is aggressive, manipulative).
6. Do you want to take responsibility for an adult person decisions? his pride, evil deeds?
Don't answer here. Think about it, study more this issue and then decide.
Whatever you say here nobody is in your shoes.
A therapist would be irresponsible giving you an answer without discussing your particular situation in private first.
This was the best description I’ve EVER listen to . Can a narcissist go from one to another? This has been what I’ve experienced with a narcissist..a reply would be so useful, thank you so much 🙏
Absolutely!
Thank you for your work.
The problem about finding a therapist in general is, that there actually are a lot of lousy ones out there. I wanted treatment in a period in which I suffered from severe insomnia. The psychiatrist I went to didn't care about me at all. All she wanted to know was if the meds worked and when they didn't she gave me different ones. She was so uninterested that I stopped going. It may be different when you have NPD as if you were an insomniac but I totally get why they mistrust therapists. Luckily I managed to get rid of my insomnia on my own without the pills and the so called therapy of this hack.
That's a good point, a lot of then do suck. I find they just stroke my ego without challenging me enough and I have the same problems with every day people outside of the sessions.
The problem is they both present with the same ego function deficits.
Agreed
Family history in a nutshell.
Same here
Error in therapist - "every single person describing the symptoms of narcissism was incompetent because one or two descriptors did not apply to me." He was covert - most descriptions include grandiosity. This was after accepting that he was a narcissist and had serious problems, but "none of these people understand enough to be useful and doctors in India will be worse. So don't tell me I need therapy. There is no hope for me."
I did not succumb to codependency (though he did hurt me badly, often), but for a long time, I was the caregiver of someone I recognized to be profoundly mentally disturbed. I tried to help him, succeeded sporadically, but it never stuck. Tried to get him to seek help - not a chance.
Eventually he'd talk himself around to his only problem being that I saw problems with him - ignoring that I was pretty much the only real relationship he had, ignoring that he couldn't keep jobs, ignoring that he'd been threatened with arrest for sexual abuse by someone he cheated with because of his behaviour.
Eventually he dumped me thinking a fresh start will make problems go away.
Where do u live in india ...there are good psychologists & psychiatrist, just need to find one good ..
Contact " iph " thane/ mumbai group ..u will get the numbers of many good docs .. ...go to Google, look for docs ,counsellors for personality disorder , see reviews ..hope u will b able to find one
@@drrupalvinayak9401 My narcissist is no longer in my life. He decided to bail when I said therapy or else. I doubt he's coming back given I'm suing his ass for abuse. I have left the option for therapy open as a part of any mediation. Not likely to happen though. He's pretty addicted to thinking of himself as flawless. And I am not likely to let him set foot in my home again without him getting a few basics straight. I'll happily take the occasional hit as the price of loving him. I won't be his punching bag. That means demonstrable commitment to therapy at a minimum - which will be his deal breaker.
My mum has NPD because she got rejected and neglected badly all through her infanthood. My grandma didn't even pick her up once due to gout flares, and whenever my mum wanted breastfeeding, tried to touch her mum's breasts she got pushed away by her own mum. You can imagine she turned out to be a NPD and tried to control me and being super harsh and violent on me. She became jealous of me when I grew up. She divorced my dad 30 years ago because she believed she was so special that she deserved a man with power. I don't know how to deal with a relationship with her. Now she is 70 year old, living on her own. I cannot keep avoiding her... any tips on dealing with a NPD parent who is getting old??
I think im one. But unable to understand in which stage i m right now!
Can you do a video discussing when npd is comorbid with bpd
Why do I feel like Jekyll and Hyde? Part of me is aware that another part of me is narcissistic, and when I start to try and get help the Narcissistic part takes over. I've had therapists and I can't work with them because I go in genuinely wanting to work with them and then can't stop my mind from switching and thinking 'I could do this job better than you' and its like this part refuses to work with them and distracts me and tells me I'm fine and blames everyone else and gets paranoid, I feel I need to strengthen my core self so that I can stand my ground when this narcissistic part takes over
Can a narcissist learn to feel empathy if they’re moderate or extreme?
Hi thank you I enjoyed listening, I’ve been racking my brain trying to figure out if my son has a mental health issues, he has all the traits of NPD but also has traits of schizophrenia, he thinks he’s fine of course and keeps telling me there’s nothing wrong with him but as a mother I know! He got so bad on drugs he ended up homeless which led him into deeper trouble and now he’s in prison 😔😔 I wish someone would just figure out what’s going on with him. I’m living in Dublin Ireland and the mental health system over here is extremely bad. 😢
Informative video. Appreciate you~
I'm so glad this video was helpful for you. I wish you well.
you do such a great job at explaining it all! thank you!
I'm on the severe level and I have no clue what to do. I dont have insurance and cant afford to pay for years of therapy and help. I cant hold a job. It's pretty much impossible for me to make and keep friends. I need help... I've sought out the Harris County Gold card but my household makes too much so I cant get access to that free help. I'm the only one who can't hold a job and my health isnt THEIR responsibility. I live out on Spring Texas. I've been crying to find help for years with none to be found. I've got A LOT of issues from being abused as a child that I cant get any help with and they prevent me from being a productive member of society. 😭
Thank you for reaching out to get help because you are not alone and that shows how willing you are to get help. There’s hope, please don’t give up.
im not a therapist or something but i've heard that you guys lack empathy but you know how to do it but you just don't do it. i've heard that you'd be better if you were able to do empathy and your ability to do empathy increases if you keep try to do empathy with people. for example, if you were mean to some waiter, think about how would you feel if you were the waiter and random guy treated you as sh.t lol i know this look stupid but i've heard that. please search it. there're videos about that on yt. if you're mean and always want to do things in your own way and lack empathy, ofc people would leave you at some point because no one has to bear anyone. but the thing is, it is only you that can change yourself. educate yourself and try to be a better person. try to enhance your ability to empathy. try to love things other than yourself. the world is beautiful, you just need to see it. maybe just go on the street and pet some random dogs. don't turn life a hell for yourself and the people around you. you have one life and you don't want to waste it. sorry for my english bc it's not my first language. hope you find what you're looking for
Thank you for the straight forward analogy.
I know you say there aren't any medications for personality disorders at the core level but I often wonder whether therapy for personality disorders would be a lot more effective whilst under the influence of psychadelics. As a person with NPD, I would very much be up for that, even if it could be an emotionally unpleasant and painful experience and had to be tied to a chair, I would prefer that over the slow grind any day.
I feel like I fall under the category of severe NPD. 😂 The part when you said they have NPD with a BPD flavor, I was like, yup! Serial unemployment and years of unemployment in general. Sabotaging and destroying relationships, especially those I genuinely love and care for. Preoccupation with fantasy, almost like I’m constantly stuck in my head even to the point of losing time. Wanting to make goals, but I’m so preoccupied with the fantasy centered around the goal that I never actually do the work to bring my goals to fruition. I’ve taken medication but it feels like I just become extremely grandiose, which makes people dislike me even more. But when I’m not on medication, I feel like I can’t relate to anyone because of how much I suffer, so I tend to push people away. It sucks. The emptiness and boredom is intolerable and feeling like I’m always misreading peoples body language or tone, so I’m always defensive, which makes me ignore everyone. What can even be done?
I feel like you.... so bored because I missed all the opportunities to bond with people...I think I was put through some nasty masonic rituals but my memories are fragmented and no one in my family supposedly had any memories of trauma based mind control... in. my late twenties I fell in Love with a narcissist who basically plied me with ecstasy and made me believe he loved me... then degraded me and did sneaky demonic things and lied to everyone and told people that I was dangerous and a witch. it broke e and I ended up having a child with someone I didn't know well who also turned out to be a. controlling man who was very scared to discuss anything that didn't gel exactly wth his beliefs, so I felt that I couldn't even speak freely or explore ideas and since we ere housemates it wasn't until after he died that I started to realize that I had been in a very bleak, bored, isolated environment and I was also undereducated for thyoid disorder which meant I was too tired to change my life much. now I am much recovered, but I have fallen in love with a man who has NPD and bulimia, and is probably schizoid as well. God help us. but you know, maybe you and I could be friend? I would be happy to talk to anyone who is on the path to recovery from NPD, because that is tough and lonely.
my dad is a master Covert Narcissist and does it only to me.. so far as i know..
My husband is covert narc. He is emotionally neglectful, shallow, hates commitments, deceitful, can exploit me and other women, craves admiration, cheats, devalues, delusional, avoids addressing issues, avoids getting help, blames me or others. He appears normal outside but only few notice. I think its hard to know how severe until you cried blood but they didnt care
Please please please more videos on npd. Please! I need to understand how people become narcs and how not to take what they do and say seriously! I grew up with narcs. Attracted narcs as an adult. Please help!
I became a narcissist through severe physical and psychological abuse and being sexually trafficked by my mother when I was a child. We have had fucking horrible lives.
There is like a 0.1% chance that I have npd but it’s horrible how people talk about narcissists like they are “bad guys” and just thing they’re the best, there’s so much more going on.
Horrible ppl
What if the Narc herself is a psychologist ?
My girl of 15 years (who is a psychologist herself - newbee though) has turned into mildest form to typical NPD..
She connected herself recently with a vile man who is an Extreme Narc. He changed her equation with me and turned her against me in an extreme way..
I lost my woman of life to him..
She blames me for everything... Everything ..
Even what she has been doing..
I don't know how to break her free from him.
Nothing seems to work.
He has spelled my girl. She is magically mesmerized with him.
It's painful, to say the least..
What to do ? Can you please advice
I quit my job dr., saying this & that.( But I don’t told the truth to the dr because I know that in the medical field isn’t able)
Then months later I see my visions on the news someone was dead exactly as I see it.
Months before.
So I’m alive but having this thing makes me loser? & if I used on my advantage it makes me awful this its has been hard for me to find answers.
How crazy I could more be?
I believe my youngest sister is the mild NPD. All the traits explained is her to a T. Plus she's so into her Leo sign so she feels that's how she's supposed to be. And she's in a cult, World Mission Church of God where they believe in God the Mother. A 74 yr old Korean woman they worship. I do believe I too was a mild NPD but I have realized that and did all I can to change that and my problems are my own and the consequences are the fruits of my stupid actions. I'd blame them on others vs. taking accountability for what I did and said. I'm super self conscience on what I think before I act for fear that I'll sound and seem narcissistic/neurotic. In the end I'd feel really stupid after I did what I did but of course, it was someone else's fault so I wouldn't have to bear the embarrassment and shame of what I did/said. They did something to make me act that way. Most immature thinking ever.
Hey doc, how can i as a man with npd control myself.
Ugh I have BPD and I’ve really been struggling. I need help but I live in the middle of nowhere and can’t get a therapist bc there isn’t one in this small town. When I’m upset and voice my feelings to my husband he says he doesn’t care bc I’m crying for no reason. He said if there was a good reason for the crying he would care. This sets off my bpd symptoms so much to the point of suicide. I can’t handle having the only person close to me in my life not care like this. He says it happens to frequently and just can’t care bc it’s so frequent. I’m a stay at home mom with my 2 year old too and this makes it harder. Idk what to do someone help me :(
I feel this, have been trying to get help for years. Finally moving to a new city to get a therapist. I havent tried it but you can find providers online who work via Skype tho i imagine it's important to check their credentials. Dr fox just released a workbook for bpd or there are dialectical behavioral & cognitive behavioral therapy workbooks available on amazon so you can at least get a start on the type of therapy they would be offering you. Schema therapy is also popular, & I found acceptance and commitment therapy books helpful as well.
Prudence K thank you for replying 💜 I do have his workbook and it’s been helping for some smaller times when I get upset but sometimes with issues that seem big I think it’s the other persons fault that They are making me feel bad and that makes it hard to use skills (why would I be trying to change when they did something wrong ya know?) like I realize I have BPD and it’s a problem but then sometimes I feel like it’s their fault
Your brain chemicals might be out of balance. Your needs might not be getting met. Make sure you are socializing with your friends. You may have depression that comes after giving birth. I don't know. Magnesium is very good for depression. Consider getting 5-htp to stimulate serotonin growth. Make sure you relax. If you are constantly upset and in fight or flight all the time it's incredibly unhealthy. If you are crying 'for no reason' there is definitely a reason it just might not be obvious to the layman. On one hand maybe it is someone's fault for being a jerk but you are the one who is reacting upset. You are in control of how you react.
@@Leahv103 do u really hv bpd ??? ... or codep ??
hey dr. fox! i really need a reply. english is not my first language so im sorry for my mistakes. i think my sister has NPD. she will turn 17 in 2 months so she's very young. she started therapy because she had anxiety 1.5 years ago (i believe she still has but she denies) she quitted 5 months later because she wanted to quit and also the therapist didn't want to continue with because my sister was manipulating her (therapist told us that) the therapist also suspected that my sister had NPD but my sister quitted before the the therapist did a test. and the therapist warned us about things like how we should actually treat her and it's the same as doctors recommend to people that are living with people that have NPD. she has every sign of NPD. she is manipulative, doesn't involve in any action if it doesn't benefit her, she's extremely selfish, she is jealous of me and even cry if i get a gift. i love her so much so i want her to be okay, that's why i need a professionals' help. actually she needs help and as you said she needs to be the one that wants to get help i know that but i wanna know if there's anything we can do to make her notice that she has a problem. can you tell me how we should treat to her? as she is very young and and i think her NPD isn't so severe i believe her treatment might be easier if we treat her right, is there any way that we can make her see that she has a problem (she thinks we're the problematic ones, we're too sensitive and we don't love her enough). please help me i love her so much and i feel like i can help her before it gets too late. all my family is depressed because of my sister. her and i stopped talking because she was using my weakness against me every time i say something she doesn't like but we live in the same home so it's very uncomfortable. i don't know what to do but please suggest something!!!!
I'm so ready to change. But sadly I live in another country.
Even if there aren’t mental health providers there are different resources in the form of workbooks and worksheets online that you might find helpful to learn to manage many of the issues you’re contending with. I wish you all the best.
How common is it for a person with any levels of this to enjoy inflecting emotional pain? Example: Inheriting a business, from father, that provides enough security for 2 generations, enlist mother to go along with a devious plan to kick 1 child out with no compensation and make day-to-day life as difficult as possible?
Mine was crazy.
Physical towards me and having borderline
I should add to the comment below that it was a legal business contract & the two participants had with full knowledge that the victim child wasn't in a position to hire legal representation.
That was helpful. Are you able to provide insight as to how this is formed? I know a person from a family where all were very severely beaten by their father, and they all have poor impulse control that manifests differently by individuality. The woman simply first get ong with men, I'm told. Another attempted to tape a 25 year old, committed insurance fraud, and became morbidly obese, and another exhibits most of what you discuss here. Honestly, Ive seen he suffers a lot. But, he's a very high achiever who has earned wealth.
I think I have bpd and narcissistic personality disorder how can it be treated
Therapy. Duh
It is a complicated disorder to just be around.
Dr. Fox: Very interesting presentation. Your video explains a lot about trying to grow up under my mother's parenting skills. She and her sisters were sexually abused by their stepfathers... do you suppose N.P.D. is a result of developing survival skills or is it genetic?
My first ex-wife level 3 my second ex-wife level 3
Both of them would be absolutely appalled if you were to ask them or let them know as a licensed professional that they need therapy that they are narcissistic personality disorder
oh no no no
We are mere peasants to their Majestic superiority
Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective. Be well.
Dr. Fox
Thank you for your all your videos that help me and others recognize and educate ourselves.
I’m in the relationship with a narcissistic type. We are now having a son and unborn baby will coming out soon. I love him and I want him to have a family together but he has this NPD we cannot have healthy relationship and family. I did send to him email the videos, research regarding narcissistic , so hope that he can recognize himself his issues. How can I help him to get treatment?
I need your advice Dr. Fox .
Dr.Fox The mental Illness name schizophrenia"can a person with schizophrenia have narcissist modems or is it two different mental illnesses
This is fantastic video and fascinating. I really enjoyed the way you broke down the symptoms of each spectrum levels. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Question: can porn addition cause aspd traits or bring to the surface as it was hidden for years or because of the porn addition behaviors an getting adapted and used to the behaviors and get worse over the time because you trying not to get caught and you finally get caught by your spouse or partner partner or girlfriend boyfriend etc whatever can it cause them to become to have aspd due to porn addition. An this person either stop the porn addiction overtime or get outer addicted sexual behaviors due to porn an there aspd behaviors get worse can the person over come it an why do some stay in that behavior they started do as a porn addition person an why don't they correct it. I'm confused an stun why don't they correct this behavior and stop it did it cause him to develop antisocial personality disorder order overtime. Can you answer this question cuz I can't find it no where an I most definitely believe it can. Even though I can't find any kind of medical documentation saying it can. Family porn addiction can cause you to start having antisocial personality disorder traits or you end up getting into it more more as you are being in the point of addiction getting into the behaviors and it starts becoming like it is you and you can't break it and it's just gets worse her because you're stuck in them ways now because you were doing it for so long.
Mine might be severe..
Dr. Fox is spot on about the dynamics of NPD internal workings and behaviours. NPD is probably one of the most toxic and destructive personality disorder besides ASPD. It’s more destructive that it’s present in people who seemed like such paragons of success or standing in societies. With ASPD at least the criminal behaviours and the criminal record give them away.
Is there a type of therapy that helps? I have been going to therapy for 8 years now, group and individual twice a week. I've come a long way, but I still don't trust the therapist and have to be self employed (but work successfully with clients, can work on an emotional level with people fine if not very well). But I still haven't ever been in any relationship and have a fairly empty life even though I fill it with friends and things I enjoy, I just work all the time or feel like I'm recovering from work. My therapist does modern psychoanalytic emotion focused therapy. There is no diagnosis done since he doesn't find them helpful, but I notice the rest of the therapy world works off of them....
Can you talk about the pros/cons of that way of practicing? I guess this is part of the "me not trusting the therapist" part.
jrg305 you know how you will react how about toning it down or doing the opposite. It might not feel right but you can fake it till u make it as they say. You know you have a whole other side to you that people in your life told you was not acceptable. Some of these things are positive things. It’s called the shadow side.
It doesn’t matter the level. It’s all bad. Value yourself and get rid of them.
My 11 year old son has this I think, I'm in bits and cry every day, I finding that I'm unable to cope and don't know what to do
Hi Sandie - Have you tried reaching out to a professional? perhaps you can have a virtual consult.
@@rhondasilver3582 Hi, I haven't, yes maybe I should, thanks
What are the odds that someone with NPD would say they have BPD in order to improve the odds.of finding a relationship?
That would be pretty manipulative, but not unheard of. Consciously, it would take a lot of forethought and setup. Many NPD folks don't think they have to do this as they deserve the rewards without the work.
Well me being untrained it's probably very difficult to differentiate between borderline personality disorder traits and narcissistic personality disorder traits. So I might have easily confused what I was experiencing. however I think towards the end of the relationship the person who discarded me took on some very narcissistic ammunitions one might call them. I have been looking into stuff like ambient abuse gaslighting and covert narcissism and this person just seems to fit that description so well. It could be a comorbidity of BPD and NPD.
Pætrïck Lėő Dåvīd your ex wasn’t showing you the true colors until your ex felt it was over.
I'm guilty of this.
So if I had visions that later on turned into reality but I do not care till I see in real life with already see in my visions?
If I just know things?
If I feel others pain?
I always feel special because of this kind of things that I see or know.,but I never expressed or treated ppl like (more like team player)
What kind of narcissism do I qualify?
Obviously treatment means management of the disordered mind. Not cure , which would mean a healed mind/ change in the way they think. Why would someone be willing to wait to see if the Narcissist can learn to manage their symptoms when the Post traumatic stress of dealing with a Narcissist would have one get as far away as possible in order to save the self?
Everyone cannot leave so easily.
On Easter, I have to say Amen to that. It took me 20 years, 4 Marriage therapists, several bogus protective orders , costing me thousands to have overturned, a bogus criminal charge on which I was jailed and then Exonerated, two filings for divorce --me filing to divorce her -- ,and now the turning of my precious child against me while using local Social Workers to continue to Abuse by proxy, in order to really understand that they don't change. I think about how those who instinctively know how to avoid becoming entangled with a Narcissist are able to avoid the pitfalla and not end up like me. Being like me means being extremely nice when others are not, often over-accomodating, and probably pathologically unselfish. I realize now that this makes me come across as very needy. I guess those whom can avoid becoming entangled with a Narcissist in the first place ( the best way to deal ) have a greater degree of self worth or maybe are cluster B's themselves and so xo not become fully immersed in the relationship. I know that I have a greater access to frontal lobe functioning than many others whom suffer but I will always need to balance my cold rational thoughts against my natural ability to empathize and sympathize with others. Even the Wolf in Sheeps Clothing types. My experiences have taught me well however and I take pride in being able to figure this thing out , finally. God Speed to all. I do however think that with the rampant rise of Narcissism and the problems that society is suffering as a result, and the inability of the average Psychotherapist to recognize , diagnose , and treat it , more should be done to deputize the average citizen specifically on the cluster B matters. The problems that this relatively small group of disordered individuals cause are so detrimental that it gonna take more therapists and quasi-therapists to really get a handle on this and stop the antisocialness of the Disorder in its tracks. This is definitely needed in the courts where cluster B's often go undetected while lying and conniving their way through, and the courts remain uninformed because you can't get a therapist to show up and say hey, this group of people doesn't present for therapy and so they go undetected but based on the behaviors that were described to me by this person , there is a good to high probability that that person suffers an undiagnosed cluster B disorder that if goes unchecked will cause tremendous unnecessary damage and suffering to those close enough.
@@DrDanielFox true
@@DrDanielFox what are the chances of kid becoming narc ( if codep compulsive pd raises a kid with narc partner ) ..or just drop idea of having kid ,1 more narc addition means dbl trouble n one can leave partner not kid..
@@DrDanielFox if one learns psychology ,counselling will that make easier to deal with npd ,also will that help a parent to raise a emotionally healthy kid ( nor codep nor npd but healthy )
Is Pathological Lying a component sometimes
Yes, often and common.
@@DrDanielFox Please do a Video and BPD's and sexuality ..Thank You
BPD comorbid NPD 3:02
You are correct about the differing levels of NPD Dr. Fox. However, research shows that people with NPD are incredibly hard to treat due to the mental disorder being a personality disorder and personality disorders are typically become a part of the person's personality till they die. This is why any mental disorders not treated before the late 20s become a part of the person's personality forever. The reason behind this is that the body stops growing by the late 20s and so does the human brain. Any mental disorders at this point if left untreated become an integral part of person's personality for the rest of their life. I have a brother older brother with Avoidant Personality Disorder and since the law states that since he is an adult, adults are not required to seek mental treatment for their mental disorder unless the disorder is becoming a danger to the person themself. That puts the person with the mental disorder in a Catch 22 because most people with mental disorder don't even realize they have mental disorder.
Man that sucks. My wife has all the traits of NPD.
@@neohermitist Best to just keep things simple and communication minimal at best. Anything important you tell the narcissist (your wife) they may and will use it against you in the future. Just remember that image is everything to a narcissist and there is a very high internal intrinsic need for the narcissist to right all the time and you are wrong (as being right boosts the narcissist ego and you being wrong also inflates the narcissist's ego).
However, one very interesting observation that I found that about narcissist's is that the bigger the ego the lower tolerance to shame the narcissist has. In other words, the bigger the narcissist's ego the lower tolerance to shame. It's like a subconscious check between the ego and shame where shame keeps the ego in check and vice versa so the ego/shame do not overpower one another (which are very common in those with healthy balance between one's ego/shame).
I know this sounds very far fetched but I have observed this myself and Dr. Les Carter even confirmed this theory I had as well. Just be extremely careful and what you say around your wife.
@@happycat0411 Thanks for the reply. I've been married 26 years and it has not been a happy marriage. I stayed married because of a religious conviction that marriage is permanent.
My wife has all the traits of a covert narcissist that Dr. Fox had in his video on that and she also has the entire repertoire of narcissistic argumentation. I think she is a low or moderate CN.
A few years ago I started thinking I was suffering from PTSD just from being married to her. And now watching a lot of videos think she has NPD.
She is 52 and I suspect there isn't any "fix" as you alluded to originally. She is in her third cycle of counseling and we will be doing marriage counseling for the first time early next year.
@@neohermitist All I can say is be extremely careful around your wife as your own mental health well being should be your main priority. One of the things I have learned about people with severe NPD is that they have the potential to drag you into their rabbit hole and cause you serious mental problems as well.
With that being a very high possibility I think it's best to just keep your wife as happy as possible but do not get overly involved into her private life. Keep your distance and don't discuss anything important with your wife as your wife may and can use that information against you in the future. One thing about people with NPD is that they hurt / harm those around them because that hurt / harm they cause boosts their ego and gives the narcissist a sense of control (entitlement).
@@happycat0411 "and do discuss anything important with your wife "
I think you may have meant "don't discuss"
It's the most annoying thing around and need to shut the f---k up in any body,but what's sad is there isn't cure.so if you stay in the relationship,it's gonna start to rattle your mind,and only The Strong will survive..so you have to leave that hopeless mother to him own thought
Great video as always
Thanks for your videos dr Fox! I’m a little confused bc I’m diagnosed and definitely have BPD, but I think I also have some traits of narcissism. Is this possible? Is it just the BPD? For example: when distressed I am not empathetic at all towards people helping me. I am also driven by money and a lot of times perceive myself as smarter than most people. I am also really attention seeking too. I think maybe I have full BPD but traits of narcissism and histrionic PDs?
It looks like you’re interested in seeking help! Glad to read your comment. Try therapy, cheers.
@@isaacsanders9203 What? lol i've been to lots of therapy
Leah S that’s awesome! Glad to hear you’re one to seek help. My ex bpd wouldn’t acknowledge a problem. :)
@@isaacsanders9203 Well right now I don't have health insurance and living on savings 😭 So i'm not getting help atm.. I have in the past but like your ex I wasn't serious about it and didn't apply the skills I learned at home. I do have a workbook that i'm working on atm with DBT skills and it is helping but I definitely have lots of episodes still. Last night I had a complete rage episode. It's really hard for me to separate my feelings from the person that triggered my feelings. Because my feelings are so strong, and the other person triggered these feelings to come up, it's really easy to blame and act out against the other person because I think they are the one causing me such intense pain. And if you think the other person is causing your pain, then why would you apply skills? I think that's probably the hardest part about BPD to get past and that's what I did last night.. Ughhh this disorder is draining for us too trust me. My husband has about had it with me for the last 6 years :( I think that's what is getting in the way of me making progress.. Idk but its frusterating having to go through so much work just to be normal
Leah S my ex wouldn’t even seek therapy or work on the workbooks. She didn’t even watch videos on YT. I had to leave her. I was with her for 6 years and knew her for 12 years. I broke up with her about 3 weeks ago and I’m never going back. If I can speak as the partner, or your partner, I’d say this: don’t stop working on yourself, seek therapy no matter what, continue watching videos and working on the work books. As you continue it will only get easier, even if it’s like a slow moving train. Your man needs to see you doing those things and he wants you to know he cares. In your heart, deep inside, try to realize he’s not to blame... unless he is sick, and that you have a condition that is to blame, but is your responsibility. I know you know all of this... but the words I just told you are what I wanted my ex to know. Don’t take my words lightly. Hope you continue striving
Sorry Doc, I checked out at overcoming and treating NPD.
I relate to this totally Dr fox.But these people!!! these individuals!!! this has caused a narcissistic injury lol. I know need to watch Dr sam vakin to reconstruct my false self.Jokes good stuff i dont know whats wrong with me that will be for the phyciitrist decide.apoligies for the spelling lol
NPD mildest form is NPD. The next level you named is Megalomania.
That 3rd level is something else all its own and is a mental disorder, while NPD is a personality trait, not a disorder.
That is where the error lies in modern psychology.
you made it sound too easy to deal with them. and too easy to make an escape. This isn't do downplay your knowledge, it's simply to detail what it's like to be caught in a narcissist's web. I struggled for years and then when brought my NPD guy to therapy, like Saffron said below, therapy failed because he saw the therapist (who sided with me in under 10 minutes and told him to get his own therapy and leave me alone) as a man hater and feminist. It took me years to escape and even after I finally did, he kept contacting me (the supply) and my daughter. Even after threats of getting a restraining order. My kid cut herself because of him, and still requires therapy. Her thighs are a mess, and it kills me that I didn't know this was going on at the time because of how he was.
Dr. Fox do you watch the bachelorette? I’d like to know your opinion on Luke P. If you watch it. He’s so confusing! Lol
it takes one to know one don't you agree Daniel? 😉
Watch Kristen Piper on RUclips. Trust me, it's excellent.
The willingness to accept treatment determines lower level narcissism....this is meat and potatoes
Willingness is one of three key principles in recovery...let the word recovery summarize a wide range of vices....including drugs and addiction to other people.
Treatment?
When has this ever proved successful?
Yet the world is still destroyed be narcs.
Come ooooooon !!!
I'm disturbed by your description of NPD. A lot of what you spoke of seems backward and not the reality of what NPD actually is like. Your description of severe NPD actually sounds more like how people react to severe NPD abuse. People who have dealt with severe NPD tend to retreat and lack trust of other people due to years of NPD abuse. People with NPD tend to actually LOVE social gaming and using people like toys, not the other way around. I am confused as to why none of the NPD traits that are actually harmful to others were discussed but the attributes of a person who has suffered a lot of trauma due to NPD was described as the NPD itself.
We should focus on BPD, those people have empathy. It can't be learned
Some bpd’s are also npd.
@@user-pc2xn1iz8w Affective empathy is the ability to FEEL what others are feeling...what you are describing is cognitive empathy, which narcs, sociopaths, & psychopaths all have...the part of the brain that is responsible for feeling what others feel is damaged to the point that they would need to re grow parts of the brain. However, they certainly understand what other's feel...they just see it as weak & stupid, a reason to exploit others.
@@user-pc2xn1iz8w you need empathy in order to love yourself I might add
Not all narcissistic are 100% narc....something people don't want to admit