Why can't people admit that Sasha and MK were BOTH great. I loved them equally! They both had weaknesses, MK was often too conservative and Sasha struggled with consistency. Nobody is perfect, be proud of these two wonderful skaters for what they achieved.
This performance always encourages me. Although she made a mistake in her brave challenge 3Lz+3T, perfectly done in the rest of the program. 3Lz-landing of the second half have showed us her mind of never giving up. What a memorable skater on Olympic Ice!
we should not even be comparing sasha and michelle because theyre both legends in their own ways, with different faults and different strengths. but nobody can deny that they are indeed both legends of the sport.
@@valmacclinchy I thought she was very underscored here despite the mistake, like a 5.6 for presentation? Come on. She also technically had more difficulty than Michelle given she attempted one of the most difficult triple-triples, yet her merit seemed to be lower. I love both but I can't help but think Sasha should've placed above Michelle in the free skate
And even at that with this being Sasha's first international competition and not even knowing which camera to look into I gotta say FOURTH at the Olympics is one major achievement!! And then in Torino she was on the podium and was 'Torino's Silver Belle':)-:) Sasha, being Sasha, had changed into her street clothes expecting nothing and considered the silver to be a gift..Sasha herself is a gift to figure skating...her flexibility, her daring, her God given beauty she has it all and then some:)
Sasha's 'My sweet and tender beast' is anything but boring; in fact, is an exciting and enticing program full of impressive moves to that rare and beautiful music. Her spiral arabesque? Sublime! She created a magical moment.
And in Torinio, Sasha deserved to win the short, she got the first place on the second mark and that's fair, though really any of the top three could have won it was so well-skated, but Sasha skated the lights out. I think she knew after her LP in Torino the gold was gone, she probably was wondering if she'd get a medal at all, judging by her expression, but she didn't give up she pulled herself together.
Carmen is a classic & beautiful piece of music that lends itself to dramatic performance. It tells a story. It's good to see how differently each performer interprets the music even in other disciplines like ice dance & pairs it can be different & unique every time its done. Many wonderful songs came from that opera as well. Performing is hard work combines so many skills..
I feel Sasha's artistry is very deserving of rewards. That stuff is hard to do, and you can tell because not many skaters can actually do it, nor are willing to put in the time and effort it takes to achieve such a talent. Unfortunately she is a bygone of an era that is more focused on the specific (one could say sometimes boring) aspect of jumping. This, I think, is ultimately rather limiting to the sport as it chisels away at the acceptance of innovation as the sport becomes more
No, Sasha didn't give up and that's one of the characteristics I admire in her. Just one because I think that Sasha is one of the lovliest (inside and out) young women ever to appear in the public eye. I know she has been put down for being independent, (I am not sure of the word to use here) but she didn't demand anything and I haven't ever seen her indicate that she was angry at anyone but herself. Her standards were so high and I think she expected too much of herself.
East of Eden is a favourite of Michelle, and it shows. Yes, Yu-Na's Scheherazade was beautiful, I love her too. My favourite LP of Sasha's was Nutcracker and also Romeo and Juliet. She was beautiful to watch, just lacked consistency, but she still did pretty well, three world medals and an Olympic silver is nothing to sneeze at.
This deserved the silver medal, regardless of the fall in the beginning. She was undermarked in the short and the long. And of course Michelle and Irina were overmarked.
I read some comments from her coach about sasha skipping practice sessions in Torino. Basically that she should have attended practice but "Sasha does things her own way"
I would have Sasha second after the short, she was beautiful and I love the waltz to my sweet and tender beast. Sarah did have some minor mistakes in the SP, a flutz on the lutz and a possible two foot on the flip. So that's why she was in fourth. Sasha skated well, though she did seem slightly tight to me.
You are absolutey right!! On all counts and I am thankful that with your knowledge that I am lacking (trying to learn but those videos are so BORING before they get to the point and talk a language I don't understand) you see this!! Yes, indeedy, I am!!! When Yuna skated to Scheherazade it was beautiful. I just don't think that Kwan even tried to do it justice...that music. Not my favorite music but neither is Carmen...I must say I loved Michelle's East of Eden.
I don't think it was pressure that led to Sasha's fall. I simply think she overexerted herself with her detailing every move, and extension. Its quite difficult to pull off that kind of artistry and not get wobbly in the knees.
I've been watching skating for years, I'm hardly an expert, but I know a fair amount. Sasha is the most flexible skater, and her choreography showed a lot of creativity in the spirals and such. In terms of music selection I do like Scheherazade better, Sasha's program was still beautiful, maybe not the best choice of music for her, but hey, that's a minor quibble. Irina has more speed and power than Sasha, her jumps are bigger. Sasha has the best spirals.
Why pray tell is it that when Sasha falls she gets nailed on the artistic merit AND technical merit and there is a lower score for interrupting the 'flow' but when Kwan messes up and falls and bobbles there is RARELY if ever anything taken off of the 'artistic'? Or for that matter technical? How does Kwan escape criticism when she stumbles?
Indeed. These Olympics were Sasha's first attempt at an Elite International Competition, and thought everybody was aware of her immense talent and musicality, the big prize I think was projected for her towards 2006. On the other hand, 2002 was selled as the Michelle Kwan Olympics. So, they would not left her medaless, after all. A bitter bronze, however.
One of the few skaters I've seen who points her toes during jumps; unfortunately, she sometimes catches her toe pick. Such a beautiful program. She deserved a better placement.
Kwan was much better at choreography interpreting it telling a story and drawing a viewer into her program. This is why the characters she created in her programs were more believable not always but often enough.
Sasha's fall during her practice on the Free program were the precursors of things to come for Sasha. I have wondered if she could have been more adaptive to the rigorous training while competing, for the olympic if that would have made any differences whether if she was to practice more during her training or if her coach paid a bit more attention to Sasha's coping skills. I also wondered if her concentration was affected by peer pressure to succeed no matter how hard she tried.
I understand your point and you are entitled to your point. BUT what you should have done is to post that comment only on Sasha's forum and you will not be likely to be disputed. Because there has been so many bullies bullying Michelle Kwan and so you will see why most of Kwan's fans are quite defensive. And the other factor, Kwan's physical feature is none of our business. I know what being bullied is like because I was bullied as a young girl.
True, Even worse was the one that Irina did, when she tried to complete a long program. It was too bad because she usually executed a brilliant long program.
MissThingSings, I agree with you on some things. All the hate for Michelle is stupid, Sasha couldn't get the job done in 2006 even with Kwan out the picture. Her inconsistency was disappointing and she only had herself to blame for it. I feel it's something she should have worked on more. watching Sasha skate lost some of it's joy when you're just waiting for her to make a mistake.
1988 - Debbie Thomas, American - "Carmen" - Bronze Medal 2002 - Sasha Cohen, American - "Carmen" - 4th Place 2010 - Mirai Nagasu, American - "Carmen" - 4th Place To my fellow Americans who may be contending skaters: please don't skate to "Carmen". It's cursed. Not to mention, overused. Choose something else, girls - ANYTHING else. :o)
Yes, for sure Sasha second after the short. Sarah's short was undermarked I think, but again, I don't know the flutzes and such yet. However, since Irina and Sasha skated so very well and sadly both were skating for second unless Kwan really screwed up the results are right. In any case the long program in 2002 was the deciding factor and aside from Kwan's bronze it seemed so right and so good!!! Back to Sarah's short...the commentators did note the mistakes and emphasized the high standard so..
Fourth is very impressive at a first Olympics. Some argue Irina should have beat Sasha in Torino, but I can see why Sasha got it. Sasha landed five triples, Irina landed four, Sasha also scored better on her spirals, which is Irina's weakness, and artistry. So IMO it was fair. And also Sasha deserves props for pulling it together after missing the first two jumps. She is wonderful to watch and the reason she medals even with mistakesi s her overall skating keeps her up, with her spins and spiral
I've been watching skating for years, so I've learned to pick things up. In the SP, all the women had similar difficult.y Irina's SP was slightly higher in difficulty with the loop on the end of the lutz (You must land with your free foot in front so if you're even a bit off balance, the loop is gone). And with everyone skating so well and doing similar difficulty it came down to splitting hairs. Michelle was a bit flat that year, and skating without a coach was a big mistake, IMO.
Yep, and except for the bronze the results were good...very very good. I think the judges took pity on Michelle but why not...no big deal really and going back to something I have said before being 4th at your very first international competition and the OLYMPICS being it....well, Sasha can certainly take tremendous pride in that:)-:) Her short was a joy to watch and her long even with it's mistake(s)...was incredibly daring and challenging...
True that!! I see my comment has been 'spammed'....geez....SHOCKER! The protectors of the 'kween' are still viligant in their determination to demolish anyone who dares to suggest that their 'kween' is a total fake.
Irina had stayed in and competed honorably...it's frustrating to not hear about all her accomplishments in Europe...every once in a while it comes out but not often enough...no, as much as I truly admire and respect Irina she didn't deserve to place above Sasha in Torino...figure skating in the past has been more about time on the circuit..how long a run regardless of performance so theoretically it could develop into...well, of course she's good, she must be..audience, judges, commentators...
I love East of Eden, too and Michelle does it perfectly. She loves it so much, you can tell. I wonder why she changed it? Carmen has been done SO many times. Sarah's jumps do have some issues: They were minorly overrotated and she flutzed (which is a technical error, lutz must take off on an outside edge, it's a common mistake). So people argue Sarah shouldn't have won for those reasons (mostly disgruntled fans). Sarah laid it down. Michelle fell, Irina was also cautious, more. Sarah didn't.
@MissThingSings No No NO NO NO.......... Do not call me a sasha fan.. I am simply giving her a little more credit than you are. But in no case am i a sasha fan. Flexibility and good spins dont impress me, im a fan of those female skaters with the biggest, strongest and fastest jumps ( which sasha is not, and neither is kimmie )
i mean forgetting your tights is not the end of the world, in 2001 worlds, michelle's boots fell off right before she was to do her LP in the QR, michelle delivered a solid program regardless.
Prefer Witt's version of Carmen simply incomparable. This overall performance didn't come together it didn't draw me into the program. She is brilliant on spirals and the leaps but somehow it doesn't amount to anything compelling.
i do prefer michelle over sasha, but that doesn't change the fact that sasha is a very talented and wonderful skater. now excuse yourself and stop commenting on these videos.
@sk8ingcoach1 I am sorry, but you are wrong about Alissa. Alissa SHARES the same qualities that Sasha has and if you were a little more open minded or observant, you would have known that Alissa has faster spins and she also has gorgeous jumps when not having consistency problem like what Sasha used to have. The reason why Alissa is still having consistency problem is that her coach did an extremely poor job of coaching Alissa.
Flutzing isn't easy to pick up, even I sometimes don't see it. Sarah's SP was beautiful, the high standard of the night meant those small things so that's what cost her. As I said before, Irina has the best jumps, Sasha has the best spiral. Spins are a tie, Irina has that double Biellman which is difficult and Sasha has amazing flexibility on all her spins. Michelle's jumps are higher than Sasha or Sarah. Irina had beaten Michelle in the SP for the past few seasons.
After all the years of hard work, endless housr of practices & touring. Irina Slutskaya was indeed a trophy of grace and swan of the 1st magnitude by the end of her career. Shame though they kept grading her as if she was still that awkward 15 year old at 1995 worlds.
@MissThingSings Well if your talking about winning, i believe sasha has 3 world medals and 1 olympic medal which much more than Alissa has achieved. Kimmie only has a world gold medal but im pretty sure sasha beat kimmie at nearly every other international event.
And what is equally untrue is that Sasha had 'weight' problem. She never had any weight problems. Okay? And please focus on Sasha's figure skating and her overall spirals. Sasha is an athlete who trains hard okay? Get the point!
In my opinion, Michelles' performances (both sp and fs) in SLC should have placed her in 5th place overall. It was Japanese Fumie Suguri who should have dispute the Bronze against Sasha who, by the way, should have won the sp.
I do think Sasha didn't skate too badly here, considering. It was gutsy of her to do the triple triple. I'm not one to bash any skater. I don't mind Sasha's program, it's more Carmen itself that's overdone. The jump Michelle fell on is the triple flip, which does have a high degree of difficult. Personally, I'd have Irina first in the SP. Sarah Hughes, however, did deserve that gold.
MissThingSing and lhaba and Howsabosa..... lets be critical on the issue of baiting and favoritism. This leads to what is called, bullying. Baiting Sasha or Michelle based on who is better than who isn't going to be tolerated. I have seen numerous times and name calling so I am not going to lie when all of you are responsible. You all brought getrealandchoke, the most dramatic choker into Michelle Kwan's forum. And its time for all of you to get rid of her. Look at 'Girl Fights' for proof.
Perhaps Sasha might have done better if she had been disciplined. She reminded me of Nancy Kerrigan who often had long program consistency issues. I didn't like Nancy much as a skater but I respected her for the determination she had after 1993, how hard the worked to overcome her issues. If only Sasha could have done that too.
How could Torino's Sasha take silver with two falls and no triple-triple, while SLC's Sasha with one fall and a stronger technical content couldn't grab bronze?
Oh, absolutely, but there's some bias with both sets of fans. It's natural for everyone to call their favorite athlete "The greatest ever". Michelle always had much sturdier programs, but I don't think she put as much artistry (And, on occasion, power) into her programs as she could have. Sasha had a real issue with her jumps in most of her programs, but I still do love her artistry and emotion. As it is, I enjoy both skaters very much; but always keep in mind that it's not only about the jumps!
Sasha didn't do well respectively as much as either Sarah, Irina and Michelle Kwan. Her spirals however were so beautiful to watch, but unfortunately, the same cannot be said of her falls. Michelle Kwan deserved as much respect as did Sasha, Irina and Sarah. Michelle performed a CLEAN program, as much as Sarah did. Had Sasha performed a clean program, she wouldn't be an underrated skater.
She had a bit a of a sratchy landing on the first lutz. I wish she hadn't still tried to tack the triple toe onto it, and just put it on the back end of her triple flip or the second lutz instead. She probably would have made it onto the podium.
+Dennis G Not with that other skater there. There's an article on the internet that clearly states that even if that other skater fell twice or three times she was guaranteed at least the Bronze. True story.
I wasn't a fan of this program either. She was very young here and it showed. I would have loved to see her tackle Carmen later in her career. I still would have placed her ahead of Michelle. Both programs were slow and tentative. Michelle interpretation was better, but the choreography was uninspiring. Technically, Sasha was stronger and I thought her program was at least choreographically more interesting. Obviously the judges disagreed with me! :)
Irina wasn't all that graceful but she sure was athletic. I am happy that Sasha is "Torino's Silver Belle' and sorry that Irina fell..very very sad for her:( I think that the artistry is the hardest of the two components...really, if a toned and fit athlete counts on muscle memory they can pull off the jumps but to make it look gorgeous and effortless...and then combine the two factors...on ice skates...in front of an audience...representing your country...in another country...cameras following
There are many other works that tell a story, are evocative and can be interpreted differently each time they are presented. Variety is not a bad thing and it would be nice if the judges encouraged it more. Just my opinion; we can agree to disagree.
At Nationals Dick Button said after Kwan fell to the ice...."no disruption in the program and 'he thought' that the judges would just give her a little wink and nod?"He was right of course..she got gold. The 6.0 system was a horrible horrible unfair and totally corrupt system and politics owned it. Nationals, for God only knows WHAT reason were the Michelle Kwan Dog and Pony show from 1998 to 2006. Olympic trials? No way. When you can not even skate and still shove someone who did off the team?
I agree... as you say Mirai is a lovely skater but 16, to Carmen doesn't work for me. Sasha in 2006 using Romeo and Juliette was a much more inspired choice.
You know, this is starting to resemble more of a bash-a-thon between Mao Aada's fans and yu na kim's fans. We don't want to bring getrealandchoke in here, okay? Please lets calm down folks! :-(
So lastly before I sign off, Baiting and Bullying is like fighting fire WITH fire. You can't win all, you can't lose all, you all have to accept the fact that these two figure skaters have nothing in common with each other and neither have said anything hateful of each other. You are bringing back the time when Tonya Harding baited Nancy Kerrigan so she can just remove her completely from the ice for good so Nancy won't be the only thing that could keep Tonya from winning the gold.
Under 6.0 a fall was deadly. Under COP I can't imagine this performance *wouldn't* have gotten her a medal, since she would have gotten positive GOE on nearly everything else. Technically, Sasha was at her best level in 2002, though artistically she had matured a lot by 2006. Love the Russian splits!!
On the other hand, Sasha performed much better than Kimmie in a lots of areas, but when in competition, her consistency suffered. You can't expect Kimmie to skate with grace because Kimmie is NOT a graceful skater like Sasha has been. Kimmie could master a tough axel component because she works hard enough, just like Tonya Harding and Midori Ito. But Kimmie's axel isn't as explosive like Tonya and Midori!
And not to mention more original. Carmen is SO overused, it's good skating music and it's not that I don't like it but it's like every year someone has to skate to Carmen.
And, lastly, use the SPAM button Ihaba. That is what it is for. If you don't like that comment of MissThingSing, just spam it down. But when you go to head to head with MissThingSings, it makes her more likely to say off putting statement about Sasha, even though she knows it isn't true. And the other thing, you are more likely to make getrealandsee make heads wave with some choke a thon of her own.
@MissThingSings Ok, i do agree about her fans giving her a lot of credit... But i dont believe the she was an under-achiever. Yes Kimmie beat sasha to get the world title, but sasha beat kimmie to win nationals, and beat kimmie get a silver at olympics... The only competition kimmie beat sasha was at worlds. Sasha won medals at many many events, they may not have always been gold but she still got medals.. So in the end, yes kimmie got the world title but sasha is not an under-achiever.
Your opinion, I repeat. And you can keep it. There's no need to force people to agree with you. I don't get your desperation. p.s. There's more to life than being all day and night posting and answering intensely of something that happened 10 years ago. Besides, to generalize is proper of agressive loud mouths.
Like In 2010 with Mirai Nagasu feminine beautfiul and graceful if not princessy type skaters at 16 years old or under 20 should not do Carment especially with pony tails. Carmen was a character with depth and life experience, sultriness, passion, drama, diva - Mirai and Sasha at tis point in their lives lacked that. Like a little girl playing with her mom's clothes and jewellrybox.
![[HD] Evgeni Plushenko - "Bolero" 2000/2001 GPF - Round 1 Short Program プルシェンコ ボレロ Плющенко Болеро](/img/1.gif)
Why can't people admit that Sasha and MK were BOTH great. I loved them equally! They both had weaknesses, MK was often too conservative and Sasha struggled with consistency. Nobody is perfect, be proud of these two wonderful skaters for what they achieved.
This performance always encourages me. Although she made a mistake in her brave challenge 3Lz+3T, perfectly done in the rest of the program. 3Lz-landing of the second half have showed us her mind of never giving up. What a memorable skater on Olympic Ice!
we should not even be comparing sasha and michelle because theyre both legends in their own ways, with different faults and different strengths. but nobody can deny that they are indeed both legends of the sport.
Every routine from Sasha on Olympic ice is a masterpiece even though it was not perfect.Talented.
Sasha's musicality is amazing, and her spiral sequences are iconic!
@@valmacclinchy I thought she was very underscored here despite the mistake, like a 5.6 for presentation? Come on. She also technically had more difficulty than Michelle given she attempted one of the most difficult triple-triples, yet her merit seemed to be lower. I love both but I can't help but think Sasha should've placed above Michelle in the free skate
@@mht4908I agree
beautiful beautiful beautiful.
i LOVE her faceial expressions during her program! they make it so much more beautiful to watch
And even at that with this being Sasha's first international competition and not even knowing which camera to look into I gotta say FOURTH at the Olympics is one major achievement!! And then in Torino she was on the podium and was 'Torino's Silver Belle':)-:) Sasha, being Sasha, had changed into her street clothes expecting nothing and considered the silver to be a gift..Sasha herself is a gift to figure skating...her flexibility, her daring, her God given beauty she has it all and then some:)
Sasha's 'My sweet and tender beast' is anything but boring; in fact, is an exciting and enticing program full of impressive moves to that rare and beautiful music. Her spiral arabesque? Sublime! She created a magical moment.
And in Torinio, Sasha deserved to win the short, she got the first place on the second mark and that's fair, though really any of the top three could have won it was so well-skated, but Sasha skated the lights out. I think she knew after her LP in Torino the gold was gone, she probably was wondering if she'd get a medal at all, judging by her expression, but she didn't give up she pulled herself together.
Carmen is a classic & beautiful piece of music that lends itself to dramatic performance. It tells a story. It's good to see how differently each performer interprets the music even in other disciplines like ice dance & pairs it can be different & unique every time its done. Many wonderful songs came from that opera as well. Performing is hard work combines so many skills..
I love her and her skating! You don't all have to be so comparative about Sasha, Michelle etc., just enjoy and appreciate ALL of their performances!
I feel Sasha's artistry is very deserving of rewards. That stuff is hard to do, and you can tell because not many skaters can actually do it, nor are willing to put in the time and effort it takes to achieve such a talent. Unfortunately she is a bygone of an era that is more focused on the specific (one could say sometimes boring) aspect of jumping. This, I think, is ultimately rather limiting to the sport as it chisels away at the acceptance of innovation as the sport becomes more
Brilliant
she is awesomeee!
Omg she's SO flexible!!!
No, Sasha didn't give up and that's one of the characteristics I admire in her. Just one because I think that Sasha is one of the lovliest (inside and out) young women ever to appear in the public eye. I know she has been put down for being independent, (I am not sure of the word to use here) but she didn't demand anything and I haven't ever seen her indicate that she was angry at anyone but herself. Her standards were so high and I think she expected too much of herself.
Sasha Cohen, what could have been if she was a more consistent jumper, never was sadly.
Superb. It's absurd and unexplainable how she didn't receive an Olympic after this (+her sp).
East of Eden is a favourite of Michelle, and it shows. Yes, Yu-Na's Scheherazade was beautiful, I love her too. My favourite LP of Sasha's was Nutcracker and also Romeo and Juliet. She was beautiful to watch, just lacked consistency, but she still did pretty well, three world medals and an Olympic silver is nothing to sneeze at.
Sasha is one of the greatest skaters ever. Her musicality, her artistry, her spirals...legendary!
I love her artistry. I look up to both Sasha and Michelle Kwan, they are both just so artistic, i hope i can be as artistic as them some day.
This deserved the silver medal, regardless of the fall in the beginning. She was undermarked in the short and the long. And of course Michelle and Irina were overmarked.
agree
Agree, Sasha Cohen deserved silver. She was underscored.
I read some comments from her coach about sasha skipping practice sessions in Torino. Basically that she should have attended practice but "Sasha does things her own way"
I would have Sasha second after the short, she was beautiful and I love the waltz to my sweet and tender beast. Sarah did have some minor mistakes in the SP, a flutz on the lutz and a possible two foot on the flip. So that's why she was in fourth. Sasha skated well, though she did seem slightly tight to me.
Medal worthy, for sure
You are absolutey right!! On all counts and I am thankful that with your knowledge that I am lacking (trying to learn but those videos are so BORING before they get to the point and talk a language I don't understand) you see this!! Yes, indeedy, I am!!! When Yuna skated to Scheherazade it was beautiful. I just don't think that Kwan even tried to do it justice...that music. Not my favorite music but neither is Carmen...I must say I loved Michelle's East of Eden.
I don't think it was pressure that led to Sasha's fall. I simply think she overexerted herself with her detailing every move, and extension. Its quite difficult to pull off that kind of artistry and not get wobbly in the knees.
Alicia IsLove because she had incredible spirals, spins, footwork sequences, and her artistry was unmatched. There's more to skating than just jumps!
@@bcbrooksaccnt Michelle's spirals and footwork sequences were better.
I've been watching skating for years, I'm hardly an expert, but I know a fair amount. Sasha is the most flexible skater, and her choreography showed a lot of creativity in the spirals and such. In terms of music selection I do like Scheherazade better, Sasha's program was still beautiful, maybe not the best choice of music for her, but hey, that's a minor quibble. Irina has more speed and power than Sasha, her jumps are bigger. Sasha has the best spirals.
Why pray tell is it that when Sasha falls she gets nailed on the artistic merit AND technical merit and there is a lower score for interrupting the 'flow' but when Kwan messes up and falls and bobbles there is RARELY if ever anything taken off of the 'artistic'? Or for that matter technical? How does Kwan escape criticism when she stumbles?
She is soooo flexible!
Indeed. These Olympics were Sasha's first attempt at an Elite International Competition, and thought everybody was aware of her immense talent and musicality, the big prize I think was projected for her towards 2006. On the other hand, 2002 was selled as the Michelle Kwan Olympics. So, they would not left her medaless, after all. A bitter bronze, however.
What a rude & cruel thing to say about Kwan. Cohen was overrated never skated a clean program had all the gifts but was mentally weak in the head.
One of the few skaters I've seen who points her toes during jumps; unfortunately, she sometimes catches her toe pick. Such a beautiful program. She deserved a better placement.
Who are the other skaters you saw pointing their toes during jumps?
this performance was better than the 2006 oly lp, in my opinion.
This girl is excellent. She should have won a medal in place of Michelle Kwan.
No way. Michelle's artistry and technique were better. 🤗🤗🤗
Kwan was much better at choreography interpreting it telling a story and drawing a viewer into her program. This is why the characters she created in her programs were more believable not always but often enough.
Sasha's fall during her practice on the Free program were the precursors of things to come for Sasha. I have wondered if she could have been more adaptive to the rigorous training while competing, for the olympic if that would have made any differences whether if she was to practice more during her training or if her coach paid a bit more attention to Sasha's coping skills. I also wondered if her concentration was affected by peer pressure to succeed no matter how hard she tried.
@MissThingSings Sasha also has a gold and silver medal and the grand prix final where as kimmie has none.
Without a doubt. Fumie did great Olympic skates in '02.
I understand your point and you are entitled to your point. BUT what you should have done is to post that comment only on Sasha's forum and you will not be likely to be disputed. Because there has been so many bullies bullying Michelle Kwan and so you will see why most of Kwan's fans are quite defensive. And the other factor, Kwan's physical feature is none of our business. I know what being bullied is like because I was bullied as a young girl.
Guys , do now wich part of the music she uses????????
@MissThingSings Ok i agree...
True, Even worse was the one that Irina did, when she tried to complete a long program. It was too bad because she usually executed a brilliant long program.
Had she not messed up the toe combination, she would have won gold.
MissThingSings, I agree with you on some things. All the hate for Michelle is stupid, Sasha couldn't get the job done in 2006 even with Kwan out the picture. Her inconsistency was disappointing and she only had herself to blame for it. I feel it's something she should have worked on more. watching Sasha skate lost some of it's joy when you're just waiting for her to make a mistake.
1988 - Debbie Thomas, American - "Carmen" - Bronze Medal
2002 - Sasha Cohen, American - "Carmen" - 4th Place
2010 - Mirai Nagasu, American - "Carmen" - 4th Place
To my fellow Americans who may be contending skaters: please don't skate to "Carmen". It's cursed. Not to mention, overused. Choose something else, girls - ANYTHING else. :o)
Yes, for sure Sasha second after the short. Sarah's short was undermarked I think, but again, I don't know the flutzes and such yet. However, since Irina and Sasha skated so very well and sadly both were skating for second unless Kwan really screwed up the results are right. In any case the long program in 2002 was the deciding factor and aside from Kwan's bronze it seemed so right and so good!!! Back to Sarah's short...the commentators did note the mistakes and emphasized the high standard so..
@fastandflexiblesk8er did you read Sasha's autobiography?
Fourth is very impressive at a first Olympics. Some argue Irina should have beat Sasha in Torino, but I can see why Sasha got it. Sasha landed five triples, Irina landed four, Sasha also scored better on her spirals, which is Irina's weakness, and artistry. So IMO it was fair. And also Sasha deserves props for pulling it together after missing the first two jumps. She is wonderful to watch and the reason she medals even with mistakesi s her overall skating keeps her up, with her spins and spiral
I've been watching skating for years, so I've learned to pick things up. In the SP, all the women had similar difficult.y Irina's SP was slightly higher in difficulty with the loop on the end of the lutz (You must land with your free foot in front so if you're even a bit off balance, the loop is gone). And with everyone skating so well and doing similar difficulty it came down to splitting hairs. Michelle was a bit flat that year, and skating without a coach was a big mistake, IMO.
天才
Dude, why did you mess up the aspect ratio so badly? She looks like Gumby.
Yep, and except for the bronze the results were good...very very good. I think the judges took pity on Michelle but why not...no big deal really and going back to something I have said before being 4th at your very first international competition and the OLYMPICS being it....well, Sasha can certainly take tremendous pride in that:)-:) Her short was a joy to watch and her long even with it's mistake(s)...was incredibly daring and challenging...
True that!! I see my comment has been 'spammed'....geez....SHOCKER! The protectors of the 'kween' are still viligant in their determination to demolish anyone who dares to suggest that their 'kween' is a total fake.
Irina had stayed in and competed honorably...it's frustrating to not hear about all her accomplishments in Europe...every once in a while it comes out but not often enough...no, as much as I truly admire and respect Irina she didn't deserve to place above Sasha in Torino...figure skating in the past has been more about time on the circuit..how long a run regardless of performance so theoretically it could develop into...well, of course she's good, she must be..audience, judges, commentators...
I love East of Eden, too and Michelle does it perfectly. She loves it so much, you can tell. I wonder why she changed it? Carmen has been done SO many times. Sarah's jumps do have some issues: They were minorly overrotated and she flutzed (which is a technical error, lutz must take off on an outside edge, it's a common mistake). So people argue Sarah shouldn't have won for those reasons (mostly disgruntled fans). Sarah laid it down. Michelle fell, Irina was also cautious, more. Sarah didn't.
Which cuts from Carmen does she use?
@MissThingSings No No NO NO NO.......... Do not call me a sasha fan.. I am simply giving her a little more credit than you are. But in no case am i a sasha fan. Flexibility and good spins dont impress me, im a fan of those female skaters with the biggest, strongest and fastest jumps ( which sasha is not, and neither is kimmie )
i mean forgetting your tights is not the end of the world, in 2001 worlds, michelle's boots fell off right before she was to do her LP in the QR, michelle delivered a solid program regardless.
Prefer Witt's version of Carmen simply incomparable. This overall performance didn't come together it didn't draw me into the program. She is brilliant on spirals and the leaps but somehow it doesn't amount to anything compelling.
i do prefer michelle over sasha, but that doesn't change the fact that sasha is a very talented and wonderful skater. now excuse yourself and stop commenting on these videos.
@sk8ingcoach1 I am sorry, but you are wrong about Alissa. Alissa SHARES the same qualities that Sasha has and if you were a little more open minded or observant, you would have known that Alissa has faster spins and she also has gorgeous jumps when not having consistency problem like what Sasha used to have. The reason why Alissa is still having consistency problem is that her coach did an extremely poor job of coaching Alissa.
Flutzing isn't easy to pick up, even I sometimes don't see it. Sarah's SP was beautiful, the high standard of the night meant those small things so that's what cost her. As I said before, Irina has the best jumps, Sasha has the best spiral. Spins are a tie, Irina has that double Biellman which is difficult and Sasha has amazing flexibility on all her spins. Michelle's jumps are higher than Sasha or Sarah. Irina had beaten Michelle in the SP for the past few seasons.
After all the years of hard work, endless housr of practices & touring. Irina Slutskaya was indeed a trophy of grace and swan of the 1st magnitude by the end of her career. Shame though they kept grading her as if she was still that awkward 15 year old at 1995 worlds.
If it wasn’t for that one fall, she would have been on the podium….
@MissThingSings Well if your talking about winning, i believe sasha has 3 world medals and 1 olympic medal which much more than Alissa has achieved. Kimmie only has a world gold medal but im pretty sure sasha beat kimmie at nearly every other international event.
какое это фигурное катание? по сравнению с тем, что сейчас... сейчас такая скорость, хореография, прыжки. а тут ездит попой назад из угла в угол.
Тогда люди и этому были рады да ФК прогрессирует.
Очень приличные катание и хореография, если честно, то выступление Слуцкой сильно слабее.
And what is equally untrue is that Sasha had 'weight' problem. She never had any weight problems. Okay? And please focus on Sasha's figure skating and her overall spirals. Sasha is an athlete who trains hard okay? Get the point!
In my opinion, Michelles' performances (both sp and fs) in SLC should have placed her in 5th place overall. It was Japanese Fumie Suguri who should have dispute the Bronze against Sasha who, by the way, should have won the sp.
I do think Sasha didn't skate too badly here, considering. It was gutsy of her to do the triple triple. I'm not one to bash any skater. I don't mind Sasha's program, it's more Carmen itself that's overdone. The jump Michelle fell on is the triple flip, which does have a high degree of difficult. Personally, I'd have Irina first in the SP. Sarah Hughes, however, did deserve that gold.
MissThingSing and lhaba and Howsabosa..... lets be critical on the issue of baiting and favoritism. This leads to what is called, bullying. Baiting Sasha or Michelle based on who is better than who isn't going to be tolerated. I have seen numerous times and name calling so I am not going to lie when all of you are responsible. You all brought getrealandchoke, the most dramatic choker into Michelle Kwan's forum. And its time for all of you to get rid of her. Look at 'Girl Fights' for proof.
Perhaps Sasha might have done better if she had been disciplined. She reminded me of Nancy Kerrigan who often had long program consistency issues. I didn't like Nancy much as a skater but I respected her for the determination she had after 1993, how hard the worked to overcome her issues. If only Sasha could have done that too.
How could Torino's Sasha take silver with two falls and no triple-triple, while SLC's Sasha with one fall and a stronger technical content couldn't grab bronze?
Piznoc Tsauo torino was a much weaker event. It happens
Oh, absolutely, but there's some bias with both sets of fans. It's natural for everyone to call their favorite athlete "The greatest ever". Michelle always had much sturdier programs, but I don't think she put as much artistry (And, on occasion, power) into her programs as she could have. Sasha had a real issue with her jumps in most of her programs, but I still do love her artistry and emotion. As it is, I enjoy both skaters very much; but always keep in mind that it's not only about the jumps!
Sasha didn't do well respectively as much as either Sarah, Irina and Michelle Kwan. Her spirals however were so beautiful to watch, but unfortunately, the same cannot be said of her falls. Michelle Kwan deserved as much respect as did Sasha, Irina and Sarah. Michelle performed a CLEAN program, as much as Sarah did. Had Sasha performed a clean program, she wouldn't be an underrated skater.
She had a bit a of a sratchy landing on the first lutz. I wish she hadn't still tried to tack the triple toe onto it, and just put it on the back end of her triple flip or the second lutz instead. She probably would have made it onto the podium.
+Dennis G Not with that other skater there. There's an article on the internet that clearly states that even if that other skater fell twice or three times she was guaranteed at least the Bronze. True story.
Шпагат как у нашей Юлечке
she was undermarked. for me she should have wun the SP and finished 2nd in the free behind sara so still in 1st place.
I wasn't a fan of this program either. She was very young here and it showed. I would have loved to see her tackle Carmen later in her career.
I still would have placed her ahead of Michelle. Both programs were slow and tentative. Michelle interpretation was better, but the choreography was uninspiring. Technically, Sasha was stronger and I thought her program was at least choreographically more interesting.
Obviously the judges disagreed with me! :)
Irina wasn't all that graceful but she sure was athletic. I am happy that Sasha is "Torino's Silver Belle' and sorry that Irina fell..very very sad for her:( I think that the artistry is the hardest of the two components...really, if a toned and fit athlete counts on muscle memory they can pull off the jumps but to make it look gorgeous and effortless...and then combine the two factors...on ice skates...in front of an audience...representing your country...in another country...cameras following
Алины Загитовой здесь очень не хватает для расстановки сил😀😀😀
There are many other works that tell a story, are evocative and can be interpreted differently each time they are presented. Variety is not a bad thing and it would be nice if the judges encouraged it more. Just my opinion; we can agree to disagree.
At Nationals Dick Button said after Kwan fell to the ice...."no disruption in the program and 'he thought' that the judges would just give her a little wink and nod?"He was right of course..she got gold. The 6.0 system was a horrible horrible unfair and totally corrupt system and politics owned it. Nationals, for God only knows WHAT reason were the Michelle Kwan Dog and Pony show from 1998 to 2006. Olympic trials? No way. When you can not even skate and still shove someone who did off the team?
@MissThingSings Except for Irina at 2005 Worlds.... Best performance ever !!!!!!!
I agree... as you say Mirai is a lovely skater but 16, to Carmen doesn't work for me. Sasha in 2006 using Romeo and Juliette was a much more inspired choice.
You know, this is starting to resemble more of a bash-a-thon between Mao Aada's fans and yu na kim's fans. We don't want to bring getrealandchoke in here, okay? Please lets calm down folks! :-(
So lastly before I sign off, Baiting and Bullying is like fighting fire WITH fire. You can't win all, you can't lose all, you all have to accept the fact that these two figure skaters have nothing in common with each other and neither have said anything hateful of each other. You are bringing back the time when Tonya Harding baited Nancy Kerrigan so she can just remove her completely from the ice for good so Nancy won't be the only thing that could keep Tonya from winning the gold.
Under 6.0 a fall was deadly. Under COP I can't imagine this performance *wouldn't* have gotten her a medal, since she would have gotten positive GOE on nearly everything else. Technically, Sasha was at her best level in 2002, though artistically she had matured a lot by 2006. Love the Russian splits!!
Her spirals, her splits, her spins are insanely brilliant! And such amazing musicality! 💖
On the other hand, Sasha performed much better than Kimmie in a lots of areas, but when in competition, her consistency suffered. You can't expect Kimmie to skate with grace because Kimmie is NOT a graceful skater like Sasha has been. Kimmie could master a tough axel component because she works hard enough, just like Tonya Harding and Midori Ito. But Kimmie's axel isn't as explosive like Tonya and Midori!
And not to mention more original. Carmen is SO overused, it's good skating music and it's not that I don't like it but it's like every year someone has to skate to Carmen.
And, lastly, use the SPAM button Ihaba. That is what it is for. If you don't like that comment of MissThingSing, just spam it down. But when you go to head to head with MissThingSings, it makes her more likely to say off putting statement about Sasha, even though she knows it isn't true. And the other thing, you are more likely to make getrealandsee make heads wave with some choke a thon of her own.
@MissThingSings Ok, i do agree about her fans giving her a lot of credit... But i dont believe the she was an under-achiever. Yes Kimmie beat sasha to get the world title, but sasha beat kimmie to win nationals, and beat kimmie get a silver at olympics... The only competition kimmie beat sasha was at worlds. Sasha won medals at many many events, they may not have always been gold but she still got medals.. So in the end, yes kimmie got the world title but sasha is not an under-achiever.
Just awful that her and Michele were beat by a bunch of under rotated jumps at this Olympics!
It's a accident that Michelle fell.
But, Sasha Cohen had to skate on crutches or she would fall everywhere on ice.
彼女が本当に勿体無かったのは2001年に世界選手権出ていなかったことだ思う。芸術性でクワンやスルツカヤに劣っていないし、スケーティングではクワンに劣るけれどもカバーできるスピン、スルツカヤとはスケーティング同じレベルだし、スピンはコーエンのが上だと思う。
*an Olympic medal
lhsbaS, and MissSingThings. do you fight in real life? If not, please don't waste your time fighting. I can't go on reading all of this.
5.6/5.8
The program is lovely but her jumps were tight probably due to nerves , not her best but where not perfect right
Just your opinion. Nothing else.
Your opinion, I repeat. And you can keep it. There's no need to force people to agree with you. I don't get your desperation. p.s. There's more to life than being all day and night posting and answering intensely of something that happened 10 years ago. Besides, to generalize is proper of agressive loud mouths.
Like In 2010 with Mirai Nagasu feminine beautfiul and graceful if not princessy type skaters at 16 years old or under 20 should not do Carment especially with pony tails. Carmen was a character with depth and life experience, sultriness, passion, drama, diva - Mirai and Sasha at tis point in their lives lacked that. Like a little girl playing with her mom's clothes and jewellrybox.