I appreciate any and all perspectives on this! I'm seeing some good arguments both ways in the comments. I think a lot of this comes down to how theoretical knowledge has or hasn't led you toward better music making. Everybody has had their own experience with theory. Differing viewpoints are totally valid. Even though mine is still the best.
Thank you so much for this video! I started playing classical guitar when I was about fourteen... I've never taken any lessons or classes. I've always just written music to express my emotions. Over the years (I'm 40 now) I've quit playing so many times because a lot of the musicians I know pride themselves in their knowledge of music theory... And so I always just felt like an imposter. The thing I've noticed recently however is that people who haven't taken music theory classes really enjoy my diddies and some people who have taken music theory classes usually recommend that I take music theory classes 😅 This video just made me so happy because I think you are a brilliant guitar player and now I feel validated in my process. Honestly, I feel quite inspired! YAY! 👏👏👏👏👏
@Bobby G Wish you were in my band back in the day! I love learning from people who don't mind taking the extra time to teach. Communication and conversation free from righteousness is always a breath of fresh air 🤗
I don't think what you're talking about here is theory (even though music school definitely lumps it into music theory courses, so fair play). Hearing a set of notes simultaneously and knowing it's a CMaj7add29 or whatever is just the memorization we have to do on the way to understanding a body of theory. But music theory is ideas like "If I write this song entirely in C Major, it will make listeners happy." Or "If I put an Indian Tala on drums underneath the rest of this song, it's going to sound adventurous to people in Western Europe." What structures are called doesn't really matter in the long run. But Music Theory is the body of research that tries to understand how sound affects listeners. And that research is SUPER valuable for anyone who wants to affect others with their music.
@@obiwanian2774 Agree, the 1st Guy with an Instrument probably didn't have any theory, but he DEFINITELY was THE BEST Instrumentalist of his time 😎 Another prove, Sam was right: No Theory = Win 💯
I really like your arrangements, but I think you're setting up a bit of a false dichotomy between music theory and playing by ear. I used to compose a lot of music before going to music school, with little theory knowledge. But my voice leading sucked and my chord progressions were iffy. I found that taking 2 years of theory in conjunction with piano and ear training informed my composition practices. I admit that there is a possible pitfall in which one gets so obsessed with theory that they are afraid of writing anything for fear that it may be wrong. But the way I see it is studying theory creates layers of abstraction from what composers of previous generations did, which can be added onto. Just knowing the significance of a dominant chord adds another significance to creating a deceptive resolution. Theory is a tool to be used together with the ear. For instance, I made an arrangement of "Dejected Groose" from Skyward Sword for solo guitar by ear. For the most part, I used the same chord progression from the game. But there was a time when my intuition told me that an Italian augmented 6th chord would sound awesome in a certain predominant context. And my intuition was right, thanks to my theoretical knowledge. TLDR: Theory informs the ear. Don't get too caught up in following all the rules, but use the theory to implement and expand on proven musical patterns.
Great approach, makes sens. I'm one of those who took mental notes because indeed i'm afraid to waste tons of time making mistakes when writing out everything. I memorize jazz covers from Burrell, Montgomery and others. I did 7yrs of nite classes for trumpet. Been playing guitar now for eight years, self taught... but i can read sheets. really should start writing.
I went to music school prioritising guitar (initially), composition (it's 2/3 my job), and theory (until the end of my MA). I ended up binning most of the music I wrote from age 19-25 and going back to writing the sort of music I composed when I was 15. Nothing ever substituted for the genuine love of music I accidentally developed as a teenager. Gut judgements like 'cool' are not trivial, personal taste is important. When someone introduces their music by talking about the theory behind it - I see it as a red flag. With time, anyone can harmonise a chorale and learn the lowest note on a violin.
...also...parallel 5ths are fine, composers at the time just felt restricted by them. When in choral music? Just write the damn parallel 5th-it’s Much More Enjoyable to sing with Intuitive/Interesting voice leading (and the audience either Doesn’t Care or likes it better, too, unless they’re Purist Snobs)
I was ready to write a thesis on why music theory is dope as hell, but it turned out you weren't as serious as the title implied, so I'll just leave a comment for Mr. Algorithm.
The theory is useful when you need to comumicate with other musicians in the same language, but I think Sam is right, if you want to play guitar just do it, that's all
Thank you. I was just about to say the same thing. You learn and re-learn this bullshit, when you were in K-8. It's all bullshit. If you want to play ____ or play like _____, that's all you need to learn. It's all based of archaic, melancholy, classical music. Bach is put front and center (and don't get me started on that SOB). All you need to learn is how to read and play YOUR DESIRED STYLE OF MUSIC. Not everyone wants to be like the great composers of Europe. Not everything came from classical music. I'll keep repeating all over YT, until people start getting that straight.
Interesting perspective. Personally, I feel more bounded by specific chord shapes and 1 or 2 specific chord progressions I'm familiar with. I feel like understanding music theory better would allow me expand my knowledge in both of those two areas. I don't plan to limit myself to the conventions of theory, but I also think theory would lift the stronger limits I currently have with my playing (in regards to only knowing a couple chord shapes and chord progressions).
I agree, and I’m in the same position with my guitar music writing. I want to learn more music theory so I can find out where the boundaries are before thinking outside of the box.
@@GuacaFlockaFLAME Nothing should stop you from experimenting before you learn some theory! You might actually find theory to be able to explain some stuff you’ve improvised, I do that a lot.
@@taxtengo7427 True! I learned basic stuff like keys, scales, and chords, but recently I’ve just been noodling on the guitar to see what sounds good. A lot of my experimentation sounds bad, but I’ve learned to not let that stop me:)
It can't hurt. Sam obviously also learned the stuff and doesn't seem to have any issues, so no harm no fowl (that's an english saying, right? xD). For me a lot of the stuff is just opening up ways to understand how my favorite music works and just working with a lot of songs does a lot of work for you there! Also the more advanced concepts you learn, the more you think to yourself "yo, now I finally understand another thing that my favorite composer/songwriter/artist did!" and that will in my experience always allow you to build a bigger toolset for yourself. However I've always been messin around with songwriting even from the very beginning and not knowing a damn thing about anything didn't discourage me from simply trying out what I don't know. At whatever level you are, sometimes you just gotta drop everything you know and be like "f** it, I'm just gonna wing it from here"
I always thought of music theory as a toolbox that can be used, just as playing music by ear or feel is a toolbox. They’re different tools that can used interchangeably, or in different situations entirely. Personally, I don’t think about theory a lot when composing or messing around with ideas. But sometimes when I’m stumped, I take a closer look at where it seems like I’m going with a piece. That’s my take on it :)
No. Music Theory is an analyzis of *set patterns* in *western classical tradition* Ear training is plotting individual notes, regardless of traditions-aside from what notation you’re using
Dammit dude you make me fuckin laugh.. Great perspectives - I think you properly articulate the fundamental important fact - it's not music, it's theory. Music is music. But... I wanna sound like Wes Montgomery. So, fuck, theory it is. But theory is only effective when you don't need it any more. You gotta do so much theory that it's not theory anymore. When you know enough, it becomes music again. The cycle of shitting into ones own mouth, breaking it down for nutrients, and shitting it out once again.
I totally relate to this. I think ear training is by far the most important skill to have as an arranger. Right, wrong, or indifferent, I don’t use music theory for my arrangements or original music.
I agree 100% with you. I have a good ear all around so I don't find the need to kind of name stuff, just knowing shapes and how they sound is more than enough.
I use theory as a way to organize things in my head. Instead of trying to remember every single note I just played, I could go like "oh thats an Cm7 chord" and if I practiced the inversions I would only have to remember that one term. But I agree with you on the 'hear what sounds good' thing. Go and raise that tone a halfstep and see if it works or not. Most of the time, it's gonna be bad, but all of the time, you're training yourself at recognizing what sounds bad and whats sounds good.
I think ignoring music theory is really useful for composing. Sometimes just slapping your fingers down and exploring what weird chords and sounds you can get is very enjoyable. Right now I'm kind of stuck in a rut, when I pick up the guitar, I'm just playing basic open and barre chords with some embellishments. It gets boring. Exploring chords, sliding them up, down, taking fingers off, adding fingers down, etc. or just flat out slapping your fingers down and moving them around until you like the sound is really freeing. A lot of modern rock sub-genres are like this. The focus is more on what sounds good, rather than having to be able to describe what you're doing with music theory before actually doing it. Of course, there is always a way to explain it with music theory, but the point is that you don't have to _know_ what you're doing in theory terms to be able to do it.
As a composer I feel like I was more creative before I learned a bunch of theory. I feel like knowing a small amount of theory is just enough. I've been trying to break that theory issues by doing into more melodic atonal without worrying about progressions.
@@Raytay286x definitely theory helps the only time I feel as if theory limits is if you try composing solely on theory. I think composing on emotion and feeling with some theory is best, atleast for me
Sam, bubby, I love ya, and I think you're absolutely right on this. I have always considered music theory to serve as just a method for categorizing sounds in your brain. You could switch out all the terms for nonsense but as long as you remember what the terms mean, it serves the same purpose. If you call a diminished seventh chord "that weird creepy jazz shit" and can remember what that means to you, you get the same results compared to learning the term diminished seventh chord. Learning the actual terms has the added benefit of being standardized, so you can discuss it with others. But it still doesn't necessarily help with composing. For me it helps with learning guitar heavy songs, because I can recognize certain sounds and more quickly figure out what the chord is. But I doubt the composers were thinking "alright next up I wanna do a Dsus4add65" when they wrote the thing. That chord just sounded good there. Point is, don't trip about learning theory. It can be helpful in learning songs, but even there it's not necessary. Just pick that fucker up and start playing notes until it sounds good!
Sam - You are NOT a stupid idiot - you are a great teacher. I have played guitar for over 30 years and I can't play anywhere near some of the shtuff you can.... I didn't go to school for music either. Anyway - this video was great - I have always kind of felt like music theory was how people were able to play the things they could play. But also felt like you can still play music even if the theory was not present. like a paradox. Anyway always love your stuff - I'm a huge fan. Thanks Sam!
I've been struggling with not knowing music theory for 16 years. You said everything I've been longing to hear. Thank you, man. I really appreciate it ❤
1:40 that is exactly how I approach composing and learning songs also. if you know the melody and the bassline then you can fill in the gaps and come up with some pretty crazy chords without knowing anything about what names those chords are.
I was a theory nerd. Its a very useful tool for communication with other musicians but Sam is right. I got so stuck in my theory that I was just playing and writing on autopilot. One of the reasons I got into Sam's videos is to help me break out of my theory box and enjoy making new music again. Thanks Sam.
I think what sam is trying to say is: Music Theory is ok, but if you solely rely on it you can box in your playing style very easily, or the way you approach writing can become very linear or limited.
I don't entirely agree with you. You're not wrong, but Music Theory isn't entirely useless. Music Theory is more about explaining WHAT WHY and HOW music works. It's a fantastic guide to know, but you absolutely don't have to follow it in your compositions/arrangements/improvisation. There's no such thing as a wrong note if you wrote it. That's only for you to decide. So learn it or don't learn it, but at the very least, it doesn't hurt to know theory.
@@fledgling5616 I was speaking in generalities, but if you write a note and you intend it to sound off, it's not a wrong note. It may be a poor choice, but it's not wrong.
It's useful for tone-deaf ppl. People desire to play musical instrument but don't have talent for it. OR just being lazy, need a school and a community to study it. Except if you wanna learn violin/cello...that is a different matter.
I definitely agree that if you want to make your own arrangements just do it, doesn't matter what level you are. I spent years telling myself that I wasn't ready yet but the truth is you're always ready to express yourself through music.
I think the point that is missing here is that music theory and ear training actually aren't separate skills, but that they bolster each other: theory helps to provide a framework for aural recognition, and by being able to put some label on what you hear you are more easily able to both recall an idea later and work it out in more detail. Or, that is at least how it works for me. If you don't feel you have any need for that, then more power to you.
I don't use music theory bro, I just analyze each note of each chord and determine the various qualities so that I can compose and arrange....like they...do....in music theory...
In all seriousness though, I'm really sorry you had such a bad experience with classical theory. I agree with your sentiment that the music must come before the theory. But what you are calling "theory" is just a small subset of a much larger musical vocabulary that was taught to you in a narrow and incomplete way. You are actually in a box yourself, as rejecting the tools doesn't actually free you past a certain point. Rather, not paying attention to the names of things is denying yourself a valuable shorthand that can let you move beyond the walls you're talking about breaking.
I tried learning piano at a young age bc my mother played. She tried teaching me and I learned some of the basics. Then she started correcting me about how I was swapping my fingers around. I recognize the technique does matter, now that i'm older, but I was so upset that I quit piano just because "I wanted to play what I felt, however I felt it" instead of abiding by some rules that didn't make a difference to me at the time. Older now (much, much older), looking back, I see the value in those techniques. However, I struggle still to find a way to learn music theory that lets me "feel it"... When i'm playing and noodling around, I'm thinking about what it "sounds like", wether my next note should be higher or lower, and i'm not at all concerned with the naming. There's value and application to all of it in places, but I strongly agree with you on this topic. It's difficult to describe fully, but I appreciate that someone else wants to play by feel and not because some crusty old dude said so.
Sam, buddy, you're my kind of guitarist. I've been playing for 25 years and I often fret (get it?) about needing to 'finally' sit down and absorb all this theory. After hearing your experience with music education, it puts my heart at ease. Because, you're absolutely right, you don't need it to write songs. Figuring out other people's songs by ear and putting together what you like from that, eventually and writing your own, provides a lifetime of music in and of itself. People learn in different ways, learning naturally is perfectly legit too. Thanks for voicing that.
I think each one should get to know theoretical knowledge by exploration. Instead of learning so much so fast (i.e. all the interval sounds below octave + how they sound + how to write them), we circle around a concept the time we feel like to. This way I keep exploring music by ear and use theory to draw some kind of map. Mainly writing scores. Maybe it is not theory but the throughout hearing and figuring out where to play and what those notes are. Loved this one, bro. Thanks for sharing the wisdom. Totally agree on 5:55
When you know some theory it can be fun/useful to intentionally limit yourself to aid in songwriting. For example when I get stuck in ruts where I keep falling back on very comfortable patterns I'll sometimes say, "Ok I'm gonna try to make something cool in mixolydian in 5/4." It's definitely not my go to way for songwriting, but when you keep being over reliant on comfortable tricks it can bust you out of that.
I mean honestly even without formally applying music theory to whatever sort of composition it is that you're creating, you're still utilizing different scales, modes, rhythms, time signatures, chord shapes, progressions, harmonies, etc. without even realizing it, or fully recognizing what their formal nomenclature is, and what the "proper" procedures are for the use of such things, and are perhaps even stretching and further developing ideas which are already present in established music theory, or perhaps inventing new ones altogether. Another thing that's worth mentioning is that once you realize that you essentially don't have to adhere to any sort of musical formula or rule set whatsoever, and can basically do whatever you want (this includes things like total free improvisation, atonality, chromaticism, dissonance, all the weird avenues that microtonality can take you down, multiple meters and tempos being used simultaneously, or the use of "noise" in composition, whether spontaneous or pre-planned composition, in ways such as string scraping, feedback, effects boxes, synthesized sound manipulation, field recordings, unusual vocal techniques, etc.), you totally free yourself up to new modes of expression, and also expand and redefine what "music theory" is...
I'm in a similar boat. I find that my ears are fantastic at getting me in to places I am super stoked about... But my lack of music theory makes my transitioning back to or out of those places REALLY EFFING HARD at times.
I always tell people that want to play improv style music, you have to think in terms of playing freely inside that particular tonality, rather than counting intervals or something. Otherwise it just sounds like a scale. Guys like Alan Holdsworth and Wes Montgomery both came up with their own theory based on what works (tonality/good ear), and they lined up perfectly with conventional theory. When theory is more organic, it's much more practical and useful.
This video is great and thank you for making it, but as a composer/pianist who LOVES theory and teaching theory and talking about theory and using theory, I'd like to offer a different point of view. I think the problem with music theory is not the theory itself, but how we teach it, and the emphasis that we put on it; I love the comment of it just being about what Bach did, because that's what it ends up being a lot of the time. Music schools are often institutions built to churn out as many degrees as possible, and many of those students will end up teaching choir/band classes, even the non ed majors. In my opinion, the "big 4" theory classes are just preparation for basic piano playing/sight reading skills which is a skill that all those folks all need and few of them have. That's why we also teach class piano at the same time! The other issue here is that our definition of "theory" tends to be extremely limited, mostly to harmony. Talking about compositional direction/timbre/texture/climax should be a big part of that and it often isn't. The book is literally called "Tonal Harmony". I will definitely agree that when I started composing at a late stage in my education, theory held me back. "Music HAS to be this way". But now that I've pushed past that, I have found it to be a useful tool for writers block, rather than a barrier. Also, though we teach it through baroque/classical/romantic music, it is applicable in all genres. Understanding theory has also helped my ear training tremendously, if only to put words to the things I'm hearing, but maybe that's just me. All this to say, music theory is not as necessary as college programs would make us believe, but PLEASE don't give up on it yet!!! Learn to use it as a toolbox, instead of viewing it as a lattice. Knowledge is power!
YES, THANK YOU! Seriously, I LOATHED music theory classes in college, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've felt like it was even remotely useful in the last 20 years. Like, seriously, learning music theory isn't completely useless, but the amount of emphasis placed on it in music school is absurd.
Sam, you are the resistance 👊🏼 Music theory can give you a push and help you understand what is going on in more complex songs. But music is about experimenting. Opposing to what some people say, most of the times it's not music that's going to make you perform right. Experimenting is what will get you to perform the way you want it to be.
This video is awesome! Editing is superb also. Know your pain bro, been through 8 semesters of theory + 4 of arrangement myself to try to mimic some 18th century dude, but my ear training classes is what saved me, hope stuff changes in the future. Cheers
4:27 This is basically the idea of Schenkarian analysis. If you say music theory constrains your creativity and imagination, it only means your theory is insufficient. For me, learning more theory always broaden my creativity and imagination. If someone who just started learning theory learnt chord I and chord V today, and he/she tries to write a piece of music with chord I and V only, then of course that's gonna constrain his/her creativity, because there are only two chords that he/she knows. Therefore, no matter what's your theory level, you should always keep learning more, and there is always more to learn. I can almost guarantee that no one knows everything in music theory, including the most knowledgable music theory professor. There are many music schools don't teach theory in a systematic way, and students therefore finds theory random and hard to remember. A good music school/college/university/conservatory should have seperate courses for at least harmony, counterpoint, orchestration, and form analysis, but I know many many universities crams everything into one subject. As a result, they have less numbers of theory lectures, and their course are structured in a not very systematic way. And five years of music school is barely enough to scratch the surface of music theory. Many theories are taught very superficially, and many theories aren't even mentioned. And this should make sense if you consider how many composers, music theorists, musicologists, and music educators from different countries have existed in the past hundreds of years. And thus it is not possible for a person to learn the theories, rules, patterns, experiences and analytical tools that all those people have summarised and invented within a course of five years. And if someone were tying to find those patterns by themselves using the method of Trial and Error, it would take even much longer.
I thought that Theory would be the light bulb that lit the room so I could see what I'm doing and be able to label everything, but it's mostly been a life of playing by ear. I did get some revelation from looking at a chord name, Dm9, from a songbook. The name of the chord was right, but the chord box below mapped the fingering in something other than what the band did. I figured out that a XX0560 position was what the band used, while still containing all the notes that make up a Dm9 chord! For me, that was cool because I a) was playing the song the way my favorite band did and b) was learning something about how a Dm9 has more than one position on the guitar. I was pretty stuck on chord positions not happening beyond the third fret of my guitar. I'm more comfortable with other positions these days. Just little things like that which can liberate one while playing one's instrument.
The best guitarist i knew studied jazz guitar and told me this same thing. He always felt like what he knew about theory would limit him. I think he got past that but he told me only ever learn what I absolutely need. The rest doesn’t matter.
I am a huge fan of your works and Super Guitar Bros. Although i agree about music not being the theory it self, I have to say that one that has the knowledge to understand the rational side of music can be much more effective when it comes to composition and arrangements. I have a master's degree on music and I write plenty of arrangements, but in the end when I'm on stage that doesn't matter because music is about feelings and creating something unique and special, even personal. What I can't comprehend is the fact that you make brilliant arrangements AND performances and I can see from this video that you actually understand a lot of theory aswell, enough to figure out how to change stuff on your arrangements. I make my own arrangements from video games soundtracks for Sax Quintet and I really do know the struggle. I know that without my understanding and deep thinking on different subjects I wouldn't get the same results, by far. I think the message you're trying to pass (because you went back and forth quite sometimes like u mentioned :D) is that the abstract part of music isn't theory, although theory has it's value and is a very usefull resource AS LONG as we don't forget that it shouldn't sound like a bunch of well structured chords put together and what not, it should sound like all the emotions and feelings that music is capable of transmiting. This is important. When i finish writting my arrangements so we can read the score, I listen to it without seeing it. I always make plenty of changes because when I hear it I realize that on paper it looks right but in reality it sounds like crap. For me this is the beauty of arranging, making a song work on other instruments through YOUR knowledge BUT through your godamn EAR. We play everything by memory so we can focus on what matters, the music. Not theory. I really wrote alot, holy. I never post comments, but this made my head grind a bit, thank you for that :) I wish you the very best and please keep rocking. You and Steve are one of my biggest inspirations. Thank you.
I don't agree with ya on a few things in this video, but I'm upvoting you cause I don't want to be wrong! :) Love your videos dawg, even if I don't agree with everything you say. I think you got some good points homes - at the end of the day, how the music sounds is the most important thing. I also think a person can get too caught up in trying to find "rules" or figure out how or why something "works." (It works if it sounds good!). But, on the other end, speaking for myself, theory has really helped me to hone my ears and to recognize a lot of common place patterns in music. A good working knowledge of theory can help a person more quickly zero in on a particular sound/style/etc. A lot of music really does consist of familiar patterns, and knowing those patterns and how they tend to work together, can greatly increase one's efficiency. For my part, this is more helpful than stumbling around blindly in the dark hoping to get lucky! For sure, there is no magic bullet that will always allow one to create awesome music, but being well versed in various styles, and in the rudiments of music (scales, harmony, rhythm, meter, structure) does make life a lot easier. For me anyway! Kudos - always enjoy your videos.
There are two points I'd like to make about theory. The first is that "Music Theory" can be a very wide term describing any methodological understanding of music like for instance how Balinese Gamelan musicians understand and describe the way they play the saron) but as you rightly point out in your video, it's often used to just describe music from 18 century Europe. The second point is that music theory is (or at least should be) descriptive and not prescriptive. Theory is best used to understand why a piece of music has the effect that it does, not how you should write a piece of music. The prior will expand your musical voice and the latter would constrain it. When you look at the broader definition of music theory that includes out there stuff like Coltrane's tone circle, traditional folk music (not as seen through the lens of 18th century European music) and crazy tuning systems and scales like Bohlen Pierce etc. and when you use it descriptively, then it can and will be an extremely valuable tool.
Some wise words about the true nature of music in this video, the feeling and the aesthetic point of view. Still, in most transcriptions of, for example, video game music it’s very easy to recognise a piece’s tendencies towards the frame of western music theory: the music is after all normally consistent with the theory. It’s like saying “no, i’ll walk my own way to find the goal, the map is not the reality”, which of course is true, but in the end it seems you followed the map without looking at it. A video like this is probably helpful for those who find them-self bound by the too complex layout of music theory but it’s not the fault of the theory itself since you’ll in the end end up with a transcription perfectly coherent with the conventions of the theory. I wouldn’t say chord-names are parts of music theory, but with a trained ear you also can identify a full chord with bas-note, melody-note and in-between-notes in a single stroke and then denote it as a certain chord and then transcribe it to the guitar with the grip you prefer, both anatomically and aesthetically. That’s also a work by ear. It’s also done by ear identifying a II-V-I cadence and then lay it out the best way possibly. It probably comes down to creativity in the end. I must just mention when I transcribed the second Crateria theme (with all the trumpets and shit) from Super Metroid for organ. I did it in my room, without instrument, very much the way you described: I listened to the bas note and the melody and catching all tones in between as I went on. I, unlike you perhaps, wrote it down on sheet paper and with that said, I’d say no or little music theory was involved since music notes constitutes music theory as little as lettes constitute grammar. As the hours went by, 7 pages was filled with beautiful sheet music, ready for anyone to analyse it and say: oh, here’s a mixolydian scale, oh here’s modal chord, oh here’s it changes from E-flat major to F-sharp major, and so on. End of rant, sorry for the pretentious length and thanks for your and your fellow guitar player’s outstanding work of transcriptions.
This is comforting because I suck ass at music theory, but I still think theory is a useful starting point for doing things like arrangement. Leaning music theory is a great way to “learn” music. Theory teaches you about what exactly music is and how it’s built, and I feel like for most people, once you learn that you just “know” it. It depends on the person, but I think people should look for a middle ground between relying too much on music theory and completely winging it without knowing music theory.
I just came across this video but! he is right, you just need to sit down, grab your instrument, and start making music! Whatever your creativity makes! It won't be great at the beginning, but keep trying, you will get good! My story why this is true: I once had a crush on a girl in highschool that I didn't know, but she looked out of my league so I thought I had to come up with something to catch her attention and impress her. After much though, I decided to make her a song. I grabbed my cheap guitar (I was starting to be musically inclined) and just started. No musical training whatsoever, just sensitivity for music. After trying things, I finally found a "motif", something that made me think of her. I worked around it and a made a rudimentary song. Unfortunately, I never got to show it to her, but I never forgot that tune, since I spend many hours making it. Many, many years later, I was playing a videogame called "NieR:Automata" when this song called "Peaceful Sleep" comes up... I jumped out of my chair and yelled THAT'S MY SONG! The motif of it is so similar to how mine was... it brought back many memories! I thought to myself "oh look, I was not so wrong after all, maybe she would have liked my song..." Her name was Lidia... So! Just make music! Do what you feel like making without much thought of what actual theory tells you!
for me i leverage basic theory for the things i can't hear. specifically for say the inner voices. like you said, for a long time i just pecked around in the few available notes. honestly it worked just fine. i just found that in many cases for songs where the chords aren't super wacky it's much faster if i just know how to play a minor 3rd, major 3rd, 5th, min 7, maj 7 etc. not like the whole chords just the single intervals. i find it's a lot simpler to not remember all these chords/chord positions and shit. i rather just know basically the intervals chords consist of and how to play an interval between any string. don't really need to know the name for everything
I’ve been talking to a great drummer and we talked about how musicians should try to find sounds they like as opposed to having a preconceived conception of what their music SHOULD be. Find sounds that you like, be it a chord or melody and play with those. It’s way more fun!
Absolutely agree with this man. I never was a fan of music theory whatsoever and made a bunch of nice short songs by just playing chords and wanting to get a specific mood or certain emotions. It really is great knowing I'm not the only person who felt like this about music and guitar playing in general.
Theory is useful for learning your instrument and for transcribing so that you can incorporate interesting ideas into your own music that others have spent the time to work out for everyone who listens to their music, to carry the tradition on and on. It makes collaboration easier when people have the same context and already-paved 'roads' to travel to find those off-beaten paths together. In the moment though theory does suck when everyone's worrying about it too much. It's more of an introspective asset you use alone and then take the results with you later to show off.
“I don’t use theory” Goes onto explaining how he plays different a chord voicing by ear. You do use theory. You just weren’t looking at a page from a book when you used it. The title of this video should have been: “You don’t need to STUDY theory to play music” Theory encompasses so much in regards to music and why things are the way they are. It could be as simple as playing in 4/4 (one of the most common rhythms) or as you mentioned, playing different chord voicings. You apply theory to almost anything you play whether you intentionally learned it or not. And yes the way we learn music theory in the western world is quite biased. It is often only through the lens of classical European musicians. There are lot of different ways of looking at music, and honestly, I encourage everyone to try to learn theory and then apply it to music. Don’t just learn it to learn it. Learn it and apply it to the type of music you enjoy, or use some of its concepts to help guide you in your own music creation. If you haven’t sat down and tried to formally learn at least some theory, whether with a teacher or by yourself, you will most likely have a hard time sitting down and playing with other serious musicians. I look at it this way: “You have to learn the rules to break the rules” (As a side note music is whatever you want it to be but I promise you learning theory will help you advance as a musician. But as I said it is a tool to help you create and as well as understand. When I wanted to learn jazz I obviously turned to the theory behind jazz music. But guess what? It wasn’t like a 101 this is what music is class. It was “Well I want to be able to play these chords and then improvise but none of these notes sound good.” So naturally, I learned scales, modes, and different chord progressions solely through playing the music and whenever I came across something that puzzled me. It doesn’t have to be out of a textbook)
And in response to his “This wasn’t in my jazz guitar book comment” I would like to add: First of all I don’t know why you would assume that you have to turn to books and classes to learn theory. As I already mentioned theory is so much more than this stereotypical idea of it. It exists on its own whether you learn it or not...or at least the ideas that make up theory. Why would you try to learn these complex voicings of chords when you 1.) May not even know/understand the basic positions to begin with and 2.) have no idea what notes make up the basic A7 chord position. It doesn’t matter if you turn to a book to learn them or use your ear....it’s theory. This just leads to not only so much confusion but only hurts your ability to learn your instrument and make music in my opinion. These basic chord positions are often used as a template. ESPECIALLY in jazz. When you look at a lead sheet in jazz, the chords are always notated in root positions even if a different voicing was used on the recording. Why? So it encourages you to get creative with what voicings YOU would use. It only tells you the root positions that way you at least can learn the song which then allows you to do whatever you please to the original composition. This also allows you to be quite flexible with the melody as well. But regardless you do whatever suites your musical interests.
You do know music "theory" come after music. Dont you think it redundancy? The word "theory" is just a coined term, but it sure don't teach you how to enojoy music. What do you know, music is entertainment not culinary. That's why classical music fail miserably at attracting listener nowadays, it's not entertain enough. Music theory is a DLC. Learn how to enjoy music first, do you even watch the whole vid
Nice, I'm a jazz musician, and I adore musictheorie. But you are absolutely right. It sometimes really put some boundries in my improvisation and composing. Great video!
Nice to hear that approach works so well with you! But I’d imagine it could be a little more difficult to arrange and communicate all that stuff for a larger group, however well it works for solo stuff
As someone who went through 7 years of music school, I strongly feel this. I went into school composing for fun a great deal. The more I learned, the more boxed in and hesitant I became with writing. I think the point is less that it's not useful, just that you cannot delay the act of writing. Theory will help you write only if you are already engaged with the act of writing to begin with.
Hey Sam, great to hear your perspective on this topic. When composing for my work, I refuse to use chords and think of keys as well. I write polyphonicly, and search for interesting interactions and progressions with the various voices in the piece. I stopped writing with chords years ago as I found it very restrictive and I ended up writing the same kind of things over and over again. Cheers, matey!
Theory is one of those things that too little is confining and too much is overwhelming. Getting the right balance is hard. In my experience, I learned to play long before I learned any theory, and understanding why what I played worked after the fact was much more rewarding. Theory helped me to know why somethings worked and why others didn't, but I'm not sure that I would have been the same player if I had tried following the "rules" from the beginning. I don't think I would have grown, because I would have been too afraid of making what I knew would be "mistakes" instead of learning from them or how to work with them.
I agree. I went through a spell where I was trying to figure out why certain chords were called what they were, and the possible ways to connect them because of their individual notes. I had always played by ear, or watching someone else, or reading tab, and I had a basic understanding of what notes were where. After trying all that, it complicated things, and made me lose interest for years at a time. I think I went from carrying a guitar everywhere with me, to picking it up once or twice a year.
Right now I'm starting to learn how to write songs. And I'm always relieved when I can just pick a key and start trying out those chords/notes. Because from the bajillion possible chords/notes it limits me to just a few and that really helps me. But I also hope that in a few years, when i have a better understanding, I can break free from those limits.
A classmate of mine went to music school for 8 years. He could play literally anything he wanted on the piano and on the guitar. When I asked him about some music concepts he said "whatever sounds good, is good". Years later I met my future wife. She can hear a car crash and write a melody out of it + accompaniment chords in any musical style you like. When she stared giving me lessons she said the exact same words "whatever sounds good, is good". Both of them didn't know the names of the chords they were playing most of the time. They took a basic major or minor chord and just "spiced it up" if necessary.
i think theory has its place, depending on what you do it can make stuff easier. i have played classical cello since i was about 11 and im in high school right now, i used to just memorize pieces and stare at the ground while everyone else was reading the music. that was not sustainable to me but when i started learning guitar and i was learning from tabs and playing mostly by ear it worked really well for me, i could have just kept with learning the guitar that way but i decided to start learning sheet music. i use a mix of music theory and how i started learning, i think the key is to use music theory as a tool rather than a set of the rules of your playing because you are right, it really will restrict you.
I have been composed since I was 14 and I don’t have any school education on that. After 10 years from beginning, I started studying music theory with classical theory that basically claims what is "music" and what is "non-music" and most of the time I end up argue with it and it's theoretical tools that are taken from the magician's hat apparently. Fortunately, however, I found the modern music theory with a more scientific attitude toward music. It’s been fun to analyze old songs and find myself using very modern stuff in a theoretical sense. It makes you feel much better than you really are, at least for a moment.
I received a bachelors in music and although I enjoyed music theory and it’s fun to talk about, it is not that important (ESPECIALLY early 1900’s stuff like twelve-tone BS).I think theory evolved by all these dorks who studied Bach and the greats who just said “oh, this is what he’s doing let’s make these the rules” when they themselves relied on their great aural skills. Ear training is definitely way more important. I got the A+ in advanced music theory and did so bad in the aural skills portion it explains why I cannot write/arrange music or hear anything in my head. Theory is even more useless without basic ear training skills. Music theory 101 may help guide like a map, but I completely agree it’s all with the ear. Now let me ask, considering on how well you are at what you do, do you think anyone can learn relative pitch at least? Any tips lol. I still struggle with hearing/singing intervals as part of ear training but I def agree if one can learn ear training, it will be way more important than theory. P.S. been watching these for years and they’re all spot on great covers of great songs!
I learned by ear and I've heard from some people that my natural style has alot in common with music theory based on how I choose notes when learning a piece of music or creating original things, but I dont know wether or not I fully understand what music theory is or why it would matter.
Currently on level III of music theory class, I totally agree with your statements. Ear training is definitely huge for deciphering a piece. I love your content man, I just recently picked up the guitar and classical style is definitely acting my eye. I look forward to learning from you in the future. Keep up the great work.
4 года назад+1
So, basically, music theory is descriptivism. I did not know that!
Given that multiple music channels I follow have released videos about the flaws of music theory in the past week, I guess everybody just spent quarantine looking at the theory textbooks on their shelves and stewing to themselves
Very interesting to learn about your relationship to composition and music theory, I love to see those when they're genuine like this one :) In my own experience, it took me a great while to learn that you don't need much at all to start composing/improvising. For me, music theory helped me to get a lot of confidence, since I had this basis of theory that I could rely upon. Had I this confidence earlier, I could've started composing and improvising much earlier, and learn a ton from playing w/o theory. I think music theory is very helpful in a ton of ways but theory-detached playing on a instrument is very powerful too. Ultimately, I think that every musician seeking development should explore both of these. Thanks Sam ! :)
This is spot on! Its like making food you dont know why how or what garlic does to make stuff taste good, it just does so you put it in everything, you dont have to know the history of garlic to know how to use it, and as the late great eddie van halen said his theory "if it sounds good, it is good"
I agree with you that musical theory it's just for describe music in words, but if you know the theory it doesn't bound you in cage you know? It just let you recognize the limitations and that can let you break those walls. I mean it's not necesary the theory to actually do music but it helps a lot and is a short way to do the things other people through history have done before. If you just play random notes till you find something that you like and work together with other ideas it's ok if it works for you but that doesn't mean you are playing off the rules and doing music without theoric limitations, in fact almost everything that sounds good to you are the things that you have listened before. So you are not really out of the cage, its just probably that you are getting to conclusions that someone else made before you. It's ok to play or compose guided by your ear or feelings but that's is the work that many composers through history have done before you so we can take that theory and expand it. Without the theory you're just doing the things the long way, maybe its more enjoyable for you but that doesn't mean that theory is unnecesary, it's just a part pf the music as important as the ear or the feelings.
I’m a decent professional musician (on the cello) and I use very little theory, but I do mostly just read music so that requires some theory- just not the kind they teach in a theory class. When I write songs (on the guitar) I mostly use singing and just getting the sound how I want. Luckily on guitar I have an instructor that is amazing with theory and has a great approach to teaching songwriting and chord patterns/voicings :). Very catchy title and thumbnail!
Honestly for me, this video is misleading for anyone getting into music. Music theory isn't for everyone I get that and no one said you need to use it to write or explain what you've written. BUT I can sure as guarantee there is theoretical explanation for whatever you've come up with your ears. Music theory does not determine what you like but just helps explain what you like about it. It's just a tool to justify the things musicians have used time and time again. If someone used it before in music there is a way to explain it in theory. Also half the reason you like a note or chord you 'randomly' choose is because it's been ingrained into our culture and thus our music theory repertoire. Someone has played it before in that context so they had to find a way to justify it within theory. People are just justifying what they think sounds good in a theoretical way and part of the reason they think it sounds good is because of the theory that exists already. The music originally came first 100% that i can agree with you on but we are way passed that point by now. Personally, when I write music I do not pick the chords because of theory but i use theory to explain to myself why i do in fact like what Ive chosen. I choose almost 100% of my notes based on 'feel' and then later go back and look at the theory and am often surprised at what my ear gravitates towards. Also there is nothing AT ALL wrong with picking a key to play around in when writing especially if you are in a collaborative writing session. It does not mean you need to stay with that key and it can easily be transposed later but it can be a good starting point. It can just help you to guide yourself to things that you might find pleasing. And the key does have an affect, as remember its a different fundamental frequency and basis of notes and frequencies following that. For me, the more theory I know and the more I can see the scales and relationships between everything, the better I am at playing and composing. Also if you think theory is entirely mathematical and void of emotion, understand that each chord can have an emotional 'function' or multiple functions. Music theory can easily be used to explain extremely emotional or 'feel' things. I understand this is not the case for everyone and its not everyones cup of tea but I just think your thinking of music theory in the completely wrong way and everyone should give it a chance. Music theory is not a set of rules you need to follow but simply a mathematical explanation for what the relationship between the frequencies you are playing is. After-all rules are meant to be broken! PS. I strongly agree that westernized classical music theory culture is wack and pretentious af and needs to change and be more diversified with world culture and music.
I started learning music theory as I started composing and playing guitar, because my teacher focus my training in these three aspects. So I don't think at all like you. What sucks is the mindset behind "THEORY VS PRACTICE". As you said, theory is just a way to describe what happens in practice, just aiming to hep you understand music and make better music. The problem is that some people see theory as a end in itself, or a selfcontained thing. When you study classical harmony, you're learning the tricks our classical friends like Mozart or Bach used to write their music. This is classical harmony, and you may use it or not for your compositions. It's going to help you to understand music only if you practice it writing stuff and learning where it works and where it doesn't. Jazz harmony is the same, but less flexible (as it's a bit more complex, classical harmony is actually very simple). How the old harmony books are called? "Practice of harmony". It's not a coincidence. And of course the ability to read music is super important if you like classic music, which you should as there are tons of great stuff there. You can download a lot of them from imslp.org, which is free, and you can learn a lot listening to them and watching the scores. This way you use your eyes to train your ears. And you learn new resources to your own music if you're a composer. Or you enjoy more the music as you know what the composer did and you understand why (which is fun and fulfilling). As I said, practice is key. And I agree with you, don't let the "theory" limit your "practice".
Theory should be avoided until dexterity is up to stuff. Been playing 20 years. Studied theory for the last 2. Thank God. Although ear training is more important.
for me, "theory" helps with getting my ideas out, but only to an extent. but a lot of how it helps is just through giving names to chords/scales. like, if i hear a melody in my head, it feels easier to play it on an instrument if i can already hear the mode, or at least if i don't know what it is i can start with a good bet and go from there. but yeah, it imo has limitations.
That video has just motivated me to work on my compositions. Every now and them I come up with a motive or a thems that I like, but I just dont know how to develop It. Now It is becaming clear that in not necessarily because I dont know theory. It is just because I didnt try. Thanks for making that video.
That's a very interesting perspective. I am a jazz trumpeter and I love to learn about theory for improv as I frequently take up as many solos as I can, but I feel similarly that theory kinda muddles things. Most of the time I just want to know the chord progression of the solo then I'll spend my own time noodling until I find the group of notes that sound best inside and outside the chord. Seems to have worked well for me so far, but I'm nowhere near a professional.
This video really helped me. I never took classes or paid attention to music theory, I always played by ear and just played what felt good to me on the guitar. I always thought I was hamstrung by not learning theory and that I would unlock my full potential by actually getting around to learning it. I'm glad to know that's the not the case. I'm just gonna keep slapping fingers down dawg.
Question is Sam, would you have got where you have if you hadn't done those music classes. I know a lot of virtuoso players that slag off music theory, but turns out they usually did quite a lot as a kid...
Lol at the "what key" point when writing. Often you literally can't decide what key to play a particular melody in. Your guitar decides for you. Especially in Soviet Russia.
Oh yeah. And you might write a totally different song depending on what kind of guitar you have. If the bass notes are muddy, you work around them. If long notes weaken too quickly, you use shorter notes. Listen to the guitar and it will help you choose the notes that it does best.
I agree with this 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% I'm so glad i understood this a couple years ago. And i tell people the same thing. Composing music comes from the mind, not knowledge.
![The RISE and FALL Of Music Theory [Why Academic Music Theory Sucks]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fVYy0O7dd3g/mqdefault.jpg)
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
I appreciate any and all perspectives on this! I'm seeing some good arguments both ways in the comments. I think a lot of this comes down to how theoretical knowledge has or hasn't led you toward better music making. Everybody has had their own experience with theory. Differing viewpoints are totally valid. Even though mine is still the best.
Led is the past-tense of lead, the word doesn't work like read.
Thank you so much for this video! I started playing classical guitar when I was about fourteen... I've never taken any lessons or classes. I've always just written music to express my emotions. Over the years (I'm 40 now) I've quit playing so many times because a lot of the musicians I know pride themselves in their knowledge of music theory... And so I always just felt like an imposter. The thing I've noticed recently however is that people who haven't taken music theory classes really enjoy my diddies and some people who have taken music theory classes usually recommend that I take music theory classes 😅 This video just made me so happy because I think you are a brilliant guitar player and now I feel validated in my process. Honestly, I feel quite inspired! YAY! 👏👏👏👏👏
Its not a matter of perspective guys, its a matter of being correct and sam is correct. It just is that way. And thats how I see things. 😏
Did the idea for this video happen when you watched Adam Neely's video?
@Bobby G Wish you were in my band back in the day! I love learning from people who don't mind taking the extra time to teach. Communication and conversation free from righteousness is always a breath of fresh air 🤗
So you thought I wouldn't see this, huh. Get ready bro cause I am COMING for you
BRING IT, 8-bitch
Don't kill each other, we need you both
YOOOOOOOO
Get im
He wants the smoke!!!
I don't know how you can hear with that party going on in the back.
🤣🤣🤣
HAAAAAA!!!!!
That’s just what you do when you’re all business where it matters.
I don't think what you're talking about here is theory (even though music school definitely lumps it into music theory courses, so fair play).
Hearing a set of notes simultaneously and knowing it's a CMaj7add29 or whatever is just the memorization we have to do on the way to understanding a body of theory.
But music theory is ideas like "If I write this song entirely in C Major, it will make listeners happy."
Or "If I put an Indian Tala on drums underneath the rest of this song, it's going to sound adventurous to people in Western Europe."
What structures are called doesn't really matter in the long run. But Music Theory is the body of research that tries to understand how sound affects listeners.
And that research is SUPER valuable for anyone who wants to affect others with their music.
So basically what you're saying is, _You gotta beat the game_ *without using a Strategy Guide.*
Nah, it’s more like you gotta beat the game without learning what the controls do. 😂
I'd say theory is more like... here's some DLC for this open sandbox game you're playing that might help you get more out of the game.
Comeon the first guy inventing instrument dont have the "theory" thing to learn. Are yall kidding me.
Theories are indeed DLC
@@obiwanian2774 Agree, the 1st Guy with an Instrument probably didn't have any theory, but he DEFINITELY was THE BEST Instrumentalist of his time 😎 Another prove, Sam was right: No Theory = Win 💯
@@DrThemoWormor an add on that will piss you off
the only theory im interested in is mullet theory
TL;DR "I don't use music theory for anything, except for all those times when I do."
I really like your arrangements, but I think you're setting up a bit of a false dichotomy between music theory and playing by ear. I used to compose a lot of music before going to music school, with little theory knowledge. But my voice leading sucked and my chord progressions were iffy. I found that taking 2 years of theory in conjunction with piano and ear training informed my composition practices. I admit that there is a possible pitfall in which one gets so obsessed with theory that they are afraid of writing anything for fear that it may be wrong.
But the way I see it is studying theory creates layers of abstraction from what composers of previous generations did, which can be added onto. Just knowing the significance of a dominant chord adds another significance to creating a deceptive resolution.
Theory is a tool to be used together with the ear. For instance, I made an arrangement of "Dejected Groose" from Skyward Sword for solo guitar by ear. For the most part, I used the same chord progression from the game. But there was a time when my intuition told me that an Italian augmented 6th chord would sound awesome in a certain predominant context. And my intuition was right, thanks to my theoretical knowledge.
TLDR: Theory informs the ear. Don't get too caught up in following all the rules, but use the theory to implement and expand on proven musical patterns.
This! 🙏
Agreed. I actually use theory quite a lot to compose. I completely suck at composing by ear I've tried lol.
I came here to write this. You said it. Thank you.
Perfect comment.
Great approach, makes sens. I'm one of those who took mental notes because indeed i'm afraid to waste tons of time making mistakes when writing out everything. I memorize jazz covers from Burrell, Montgomery and others. I did 7yrs of nite classes for trumpet. Been playing guitar now for eight years, self taught... but i can read sheets. really should start writing.
I went to music school prioritising guitar (initially), composition (it's 2/3 my job), and theory (until the end of my MA). I ended up binning most of the music I wrote from age 19-25 and going back to writing the sort of music I composed when I was 15. Nothing ever substituted for the genuine love of music I accidentally developed as a teenager. Gut judgements like 'cool' are not trivial, personal taste is important.
When someone introduces their music by talking about the theory behind it - I see it as a red flag. With time, anyone can harmonise a chorale and learn the lowest note on a violin.
...also...parallel 5ths are fine, composers at the time just felt restricted by them. When in choral music? Just write the damn parallel 5th-it’s Much More Enjoyable to sing with Intuitive/Interesting voice leading (and the audience either Doesn’t Care or likes it better, too, unless they’re Purist Snobs)
@@anonymousfellow8879 parallel 5ths sound THICC
I was ready to write a thesis on why music theory is dope as hell, but it turned out you weren't as serious as the title implied, so I'll just leave a comment for Mr. Algorithm.
The theory is useful when you need to comumicate with other musicians in the same language, but I think Sam is right, if you want to play guitar just do it, that's all
That's because guitarists don't know what they are doing either!
@@pietersmal5903 I'm in a band and the guitarists in my local scene really don't know how to communicate musically tbh.
Thank you. I was just about to say the same thing. You learn and re-learn this bullshit, when you were in K-8. It's all bullshit. If you want to play ____ or play like _____, that's all you need to learn. It's all based of archaic, melancholy, classical music. Bach is put front and center (and don't get me started on that SOB). All you need to learn is how to read and play YOUR DESIRED STYLE OF MUSIC. Not everyone wants to be like the great composers of Europe. Not everything came from classical music. I'll keep repeating all over YT, until people start getting that straight.
Interesting perspective. Personally, I feel more bounded by specific chord shapes and 1 or 2 specific chord progressions I'm familiar with. I feel like understanding music theory better would allow me expand my knowledge in both of those two areas. I don't plan to limit myself to the conventions of theory, but I also think theory would lift the stronger limits I currently have with my playing (in regards to only knowing a couple chord shapes and chord progressions).
I agree, and I’m in the same position with my guitar music writing. I want to learn more music theory so I can find out where the boundaries are before thinking outside of the box.
@@GuacaFlockaFLAME Nothing should stop you from experimenting before you learn some theory! You might actually find theory to be able to explain some stuff you’ve improvised, I do that a lot.
@@taxtengo7427 True! I learned basic stuff like keys, scales, and chords, but recently I’ve just been noodling on the guitar to see what sounds good. A lot of my experimentation sounds bad, but I’ve learned to not let that stop me:)
But getting trapped in those chords was done by theory... Ur in a paradox here
It can't hurt. Sam obviously also learned the stuff and doesn't seem to have any issues, so no harm no fowl (that's an english saying, right? xD).
For me a lot of the stuff is just opening up ways to understand how my favorite music works and just working with a lot of songs does a lot of work for you there!
Also the more advanced concepts you learn, the more you think to yourself "yo, now I finally understand another thing that my favorite composer/songwriter/artist did!" and that will in my experience always allow you to build a bigger toolset for yourself.
However I've always been messin around with songwriting even from the very beginning and not knowing a damn thing about anything didn't discourage me from simply trying out what I don't know. At whatever level you are, sometimes you just gotta drop everything you know and be like "f** it, I'm just gonna wing it from here"
I like the more serious tone of this video.
Serious Sam
Or is he trolling us ? Hmm...
I always thought of music theory as a toolbox that can be used, just as playing music by ear or feel is a toolbox. They’re different tools that can used interchangeably, or in different situations entirely. Personally, I don’t think about theory a lot when composing or messing around with ideas. But sometimes when I’m stumped, I take a closer look at where it seems like I’m going with a piece. That’s my take on it :)
You've all been fooled. Ear training is just hearing theory.
Music Theory is literally just an analysis of Music
No. Music Theory is an analyzis of *set patterns* in *western classical tradition*
Ear training is plotting individual notes, regardless of traditions-aside from what notation you’re using
Dammit dude you make me fuckin laugh.. Great perspectives - I think you properly articulate the fundamental important fact - it's not music, it's theory. Music is music.
But... I wanna sound like Wes Montgomery. So, fuck, theory it is. But theory is only effective when you don't need it any more. You gotta do so much theory that it's not theory anymore. When you know enough, it becomes music again. The cycle of shitting into ones own mouth, breaking it down for nutrients, and shitting it out once again.
I totally relate to this. I think ear training is by far the most important skill to have as an arranger. Right, wrong, or indifferent, I don’t use music theory for my arrangements or original music.
how can you train the ear without music theory?
I agree 100% with you. I have a good ear all around so I don't find the need to kind of name stuff, just knowing shapes and how they sound is more than enough.
I use theory as a way to organize things in my head. Instead of trying to remember every single note I just played, I could go like "oh thats an Cm7 chord" and if I practiced the inversions I would only have to remember that one term.
But I agree with you on the 'hear what sounds good' thing. Go and raise that tone a halfstep and see if it works or not. Most of the time, it's gonna be bad, but all of the time, you're training yourself at recognizing what sounds bad and whats sounds good.
Of course Sam's ears are good, they are beautiful.
That's why he had to cut that hair away from teh ears. It's not a mullet bro. It's a samboozle hair style.
I think ignoring music theory is really useful for composing. Sometimes just slapping your fingers down and exploring what weird chords and sounds you can get is very enjoyable. Right now I'm kind of stuck in a rut, when I pick up the guitar, I'm just playing basic open and barre chords with some embellishments. It gets boring. Exploring chords, sliding them up, down, taking fingers off, adding fingers down, etc. or just flat out slapping your fingers down and moving them around until you like the sound is really freeing. A lot of modern rock sub-genres are like this. The focus is more on what sounds good, rather than having to be able to describe what you're doing with music theory before actually doing it. Of course, there is always a way to explain it with music theory, but the point is that you don't have to _know_ what you're doing in theory terms to be able to do it.
As a composer I feel like I was more creative before I learned a bunch of theory. I feel like knowing a small amount of theory is just enough. I've been trying to break that theory issues by doing into more melodic atonal without worrying about progressions.
Being limited makes things boring.
True, I definitely can see that if your just focusing too much on composing by theory instead of feeling.
Learning theory shouldn't be limiting. If you feel it is then maybe it isn't being taught correctly.
@@Raytay286x definitely theory helps the only time I feel as if theory limits is if you try composing solely on theory. I think composing on emotion and feeling with some theory is best, atleast for me
I have written digital music without knowing much theory and its working pretty well so far.
Sam, bubby, I love ya, and I think you're absolutely right on this. I have always considered music theory to serve as just a method for categorizing sounds in your brain. You could switch out all the terms for nonsense but as long as you remember what the terms mean, it serves the same purpose. If you call a diminished seventh chord "that weird creepy jazz shit" and can remember what that means to you, you get the same results compared to learning the term diminished seventh chord.
Learning the actual terms has the added benefit of being standardized, so you can discuss it with others. But it still doesn't necessarily help with composing. For me it helps with learning guitar heavy songs, because I can recognize certain sounds and more quickly figure out what the chord is. But I doubt the composers were thinking "alright next up I wanna do a Dsus4add65" when they wrote the thing.
That chord just sounded good there.
Point is, don't trip about learning theory. It can be helpful in learning songs, but even there it's not necessary. Just pick that fucker up and start playing notes until it sounds good!
Sam - You are NOT a stupid idiot - you are a great teacher. I have played guitar for over 30 years and I can't play anywhere near some of the shtuff you can.... I didn't go to school for music either. Anyway - this video was great - I have always kind of felt like music theory was how people were able to play the things they could play. But also felt like you can still play music even if the theory was not present. like a paradox. Anyway always love your stuff - I'm a huge fan. Thanks Sam!
I've been struggling with not knowing music theory for 16 years. You said everything I've been longing to hear. Thank you, man. I really appreciate it ❤
1:40 that is exactly how I approach composing and learning songs also. if you know the melody and the bassline then you can fill in the gaps and come up with some pretty crazy chords without knowing anything about what names those chords are.
I was a theory nerd. Its a very useful tool for communication with other musicians but Sam is right. I got so stuck in my theory that I was just playing and writing on autopilot. One of the reasons I got into Sam's videos is to help me break out of my theory box and enjoy making new music again. Thanks Sam.
I think what sam is trying to say is: Music Theory is ok, but if you solely rely on it you can box in your playing style very easily, or the way you approach writing can become very linear or limited.
How much Theory do you know?
How much Theory do you know?
@@ruledtrendy5066 i think the more important question is how much theory does Sam know
@@JohnnyDarko01 not as much as he think he does. This is evident from the claims he makes in this video.
Depends how you use it. Obviously Bach mastered it to the fullest of his time.
I don't entirely agree with you. You're not wrong, but Music Theory isn't entirely useless. Music Theory is more about explaining WHAT WHY and HOW music works. It's a fantastic guide to know, but you absolutely don't have to follow it in your compositions/arrangements/improvisation. There's no such thing as a wrong note if you wrote it. That's only for you to decide. So learn it or don't learn it, but at the very least, it doesn't hurt to know theory.
Zach Maine He said there are some uses for theory. Also, just because you write a note doesn’t mean it isn’t a wrong note to write.
@@fledgling5616 I was speaking in generalities, but if you write a note and you intend it to sound off, it's not a wrong note. It may be a poor choice, but it's not wrong.
Zach Maine Debatable, but I get what you’re saying
It's useful for tone-deaf ppl. People desire to play musical instrument but don't have talent for it.
OR just being lazy, need a school and a community to study it.
Except if you wanna learn violin/cello...that is a different matter.
i think theory is boring & i love this video deeply
"Music theory is great but it's a crude way of trying to rectify what actual pitches and actual rhythms is doing to us emotionally"
beautifully said !
i feel this in my bones, thanks for the validation
I definitely agree that if you want to make your own arrangements just do it, doesn't matter what level you are. I spent years telling myself that I wasn't ready yet but the truth is you're always ready to express yourself through music.
I think the point that is missing here is that music theory and ear training actually aren't separate skills, but that they bolster each other: theory helps to provide a framework for aural recognition, and by being able to put some label on what you hear you are more easily able to both recall an idea later and work it out in more detail. Or, that is at least how it works for me. If you don't feel you have any need for that, then more power to you.
I don't use music theory bro, I just analyze each note of each chord and determine the various qualities so that I can compose and arrange....like they...do....in music theory...
In all seriousness though, I'm really sorry you had such a bad experience with classical theory. I agree with your sentiment that the music must come before the theory. But what you are calling "theory" is just a small subset of a much larger musical vocabulary that was taught to you in a narrow and incomplete way. You are actually in a box yourself, as rejecting the tools doesn't actually free you past a certain point. Rather, not paying attention to the names of things is denying yourself a valuable shorthand that can let you move beyond the walls you're talking about breaking.
I tried learning piano at a young age bc my mother played. She tried teaching me and I learned some of the basics. Then she started correcting me about how I was swapping my fingers around. I recognize the technique does matter, now that i'm older, but I was so upset that I quit piano just because "I wanted to play what I felt, however I felt it" instead of abiding by some rules that didn't make a difference to me at the time.
Older now (much, much older), looking back, I see the value in those techniques. However, I struggle still to find a way to learn music theory that lets me "feel it"... When i'm playing and noodling around, I'm thinking about what it "sounds like", wether my next note should be higher or lower, and i'm not at all concerned with the naming. There's value and application to all of it in places, but I strongly agree with you on this topic.
It's difficult to describe fully, but I appreciate that someone else wants to play by feel and not because some crusty old dude said so.
"Music theory" is just a pretentious term. Music doesn't need a rigid structure, period.
Sam, buddy, you're my kind of guitarist. I've been playing for 25 years and I often fret (get it?) about needing to 'finally' sit down and absorb all this theory. After hearing your experience with music education, it puts my heart at ease. Because, you're absolutely right, you don't need it to write songs. Figuring out other people's songs by ear and putting together what you like from that, eventually and writing your own, provides a lifetime of music in and of itself. People learn in different ways, learning naturally is perfectly legit too. Thanks for voicing that.
I think each one should get to know theoretical knowledge by exploration. Instead of learning so much so fast (i.e. all the interval sounds below octave + how they sound + how to write them), we circle around a concept the time we feel like to.
This way I keep exploring music by ear and use theory to draw some kind of map. Mainly writing scores. Maybe it is not theory but the throughout hearing and figuring out where to play and what those notes are.
Loved this one, bro. Thanks for sharing the wisdom. Totally agree on 5:55
When you know some theory it can be fun/useful to intentionally limit yourself to aid in songwriting. For example when I get stuck in ruts where I keep falling back on very comfortable patterns I'll sometimes say, "Ok I'm gonna try to make something cool in mixolydian in 5/4." It's definitely not my go to way for songwriting, but when you keep being over reliant on comfortable tricks it can bust you out of that.
I mean honestly even without formally applying music theory to whatever sort of composition it is that you're creating, you're still utilizing different scales, modes, rhythms, time signatures, chord shapes, progressions, harmonies, etc. without even realizing it, or fully recognizing what their formal nomenclature is, and what the "proper" procedures are for the use of such things, and are perhaps even stretching and further developing ideas which are already present in established music theory, or perhaps inventing new ones altogether. Another thing that's worth mentioning is that once you realize that you essentially don't have to adhere to any sort of musical formula or rule set whatsoever, and can basically do whatever you want (this includes things like total free improvisation, atonality, chromaticism, dissonance, all the weird avenues that microtonality can take you down, multiple meters and tempos being used simultaneously, or the use of "noise" in composition, whether spontaneous or pre-planned composition, in ways such as string scraping, feedback, effects boxes, synthesized sound manipulation, field recordings, unusual vocal techniques, etc.), you totally free yourself up to new modes of expression, and also expand and redefine what "music theory" is...
I'm in a similar boat. I find that my ears are fantastic at getting me in to places I am super stoked about... But my lack of music theory makes my transitioning back to or out of those places REALLY EFFING HARD at times.
You are great man, I love seeing people breaking the theory and breaking youtube at the same time
I always tell people that want to play improv style music, you have to think in terms of playing freely inside that particular tonality, rather than counting intervals or something. Otherwise it just sounds like a scale. Guys like Alan Holdsworth and Wes Montgomery both came up with their own theory based on what works (tonality/good ear), and they lined up perfectly with conventional theory. When theory is more organic, it's much more practical and useful.
This video is great and thank you for making it, but as a composer/pianist who LOVES theory and teaching theory and talking about theory and using theory, I'd like to offer a different point of view.
I think the problem with music theory is not the theory itself, but how we teach it, and the emphasis that we put on it; I love the comment of it just being about what Bach did, because that's what it ends up being a lot of the time. Music schools are often institutions built to churn out as many degrees as possible, and many of those students will end up teaching choir/band classes, even the non ed majors. In my opinion, the "big 4" theory classes are just preparation for basic piano playing/sight reading skills which is a skill that all those folks all need and few of them have. That's why we also teach class piano at the same time! The other issue here is that our definition of "theory" tends to be extremely limited, mostly to harmony. Talking about compositional direction/timbre/texture/climax should be a big part of that and it often isn't. The book is literally called "Tonal Harmony".
I will definitely agree that when I started composing at a late stage in my education, theory held me back. "Music HAS to be this way". But now that I've pushed past that, I have found it to be a useful tool for writers block, rather than a barrier. Also, though we teach it through baroque/classical/romantic music, it is applicable in all genres. Understanding theory has also helped my ear training tremendously, if only to put words to the things I'm hearing, but maybe that's just me.
All this to say, music theory is not as necessary as college programs would make us believe, but PLEASE don't give up on it yet!!! Learn to use it as a toolbox, instead of viewing it as a lattice. Knowledge is power!
YES, THANK YOU! Seriously, I LOATHED music theory classes in college, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've felt like it was even remotely useful in the last 20 years. Like, seriously, learning music theory isn't completely useless, but the amount of emphasis placed on it in music school is absurd.
Sam, you are the resistance 👊🏼 Music theory can give you a push and help you understand what is going on in more complex songs. But music is about experimenting. Opposing to what some people say, most of the times it's not music that's going to make you perform right. Experimenting is what will get you to perform the way you want it to be.
Relatable. Theory knowledge isn't necessary to create. And... you are also correct, there is some jealousy of people who know this stuff.
This video is awesome! Editing is superb also.
Know your pain bro, been through 8 semesters of theory + 4 of arrangement myself to try to mimic some 18th century dude, but my ear training classes is what saved me, hope stuff changes in the future. Cheers
4:27 This is basically the idea of Schenkarian analysis.
If you say music theory constrains your creativity and imagination, it only means your theory is insufficient. For me, learning more theory always broaden my creativity and imagination. If someone who just started learning theory learnt chord I and chord V today, and he/she tries to write a piece of music with chord I and V only, then of course that's gonna constrain his/her creativity, because there are only two chords that he/she knows.
Therefore, no matter what's your theory level, you should always keep learning more, and there is always more to learn. I can almost guarantee that no one knows everything in music theory, including the most knowledgable music theory professor.
There are many music schools don't teach theory in a systematic way, and students therefore finds theory random and hard to remember. A good music school/college/university/conservatory should have seperate courses for at least harmony, counterpoint, orchestration, and form analysis, but I know many many universities crams everything into one subject. As a result, they have less numbers of theory lectures, and their course are structured in a not very systematic way.
And five years of music school is barely enough to scratch the surface of music theory. Many theories are taught very superficially, and many theories aren't even mentioned.
And this should make sense if you consider how many composers, music theorists, musicologists, and music educators from different countries have existed in the past hundreds of years. And thus it is not possible for a person to learn the theories, rules, patterns, experiences and analytical tools that all those people have summarised and invented within a course of five years. And if someone were tying to find those patterns by themselves using the method of Trial and Error, it would take even much longer.
I thought that Theory would be the light bulb that lit the room so I could see what I'm doing and be able to label everything, but it's mostly been a life of playing by ear. I did get some revelation from looking at a chord name, Dm9, from a songbook. The name of the chord was right, but the chord box below mapped the fingering in something other than what the band did. I figured out that a XX0560 position was what the band used, while still containing all the notes that make up a Dm9 chord! For me, that was cool because I a) was playing the song the way my favorite band did and b) was learning something about how a Dm9 has more than one position on the guitar. I was pretty stuck on chord positions not happening beyond the third fret of my guitar. I'm more comfortable with other positions these days. Just little things like that which can liberate one while playing one's instrument.
The best guitarist i knew studied jazz guitar and told me this same thing. He always felt like what he knew about theory would limit him. I think he got past that but he told me only ever learn what I absolutely need. The rest doesn’t matter.
I am a huge fan of your works and Super Guitar Bros.
Although i agree about music not being the theory it self, I have to say that one that has the knowledge to understand the rational side of music can be much more effective when it comes to composition and arrangements.
I have a master's degree on music and I write plenty of arrangements, but in the end when I'm on stage that doesn't matter because music is about feelings and creating something unique and special, even personal.
What I can't comprehend is the fact that you make brilliant arrangements AND performances and I can see from this video that you actually understand a lot of theory aswell, enough to figure out how to change stuff on your arrangements. I make my own arrangements from video games soundtracks for Sax Quintet and I really do know the struggle. I know that without my understanding and deep thinking on different subjects I wouldn't get the same results, by far.
I think the message you're trying to pass (because you went back and forth quite sometimes like u mentioned :D) is that the abstract part of music isn't theory, although theory has it's value and is a very usefull resource AS LONG as we don't forget that it shouldn't sound like a bunch of well structured chords put together and what not, it should sound like all the emotions and feelings that music is capable of transmiting.
This is important. When i finish writting my arrangements so we can read the score, I listen to it without seeing it. I always make plenty of changes because when I hear it I realize that on paper it looks right but in reality it sounds like crap. For me this is the beauty of arranging, making a song work on other instruments through YOUR knowledge BUT through your godamn EAR. We play everything by memory so we can focus on what matters, the music. Not theory.
I really wrote alot, holy. I never post comments, but this made my head grind a bit, thank you for that :)
I wish you the very best and please keep rocking. You and Steve are one of my biggest inspirations.
Thank you.
I don't agree with ya on a few things in this video, but I'm upvoting you cause I don't want to be wrong! :) Love your videos dawg, even if I don't agree with everything you say.
I think you got some good points homes - at the end of the day, how the music sounds is the most important thing. I also think a person can get too caught up in trying to find "rules" or figure out how or why something "works." (It works if it sounds good!). But, on the other end, speaking for myself, theory has really helped me to hone my ears and to recognize a lot of common place patterns in music. A good working knowledge of theory can help a person more quickly zero in on a particular sound/style/etc. A lot of music really does consist of familiar patterns, and knowing those patterns and how they tend to work together, can greatly increase one's efficiency. For my part, this is more helpful than stumbling around blindly in the dark hoping to get lucky! For sure, there is no magic bullet that will always allow one to create awesome music, but being well versed in various styles, and in the rudiments of music (scales, harmony, rhythm, meter, structure) does make life a lot easier. For me anyway! Kudos - always enjoy your videos.
I just really freakin' love every video on this channel.
There are two points I'd like to make about theory. The first is that "Music Theory" can be a very wide term describing any methodological understanding of music like for instance how Balinese Gamelan musicians understand and describe the way they play the saron) but as you rightly point out in your video, it's often used to just describe music from 18 century Europe. The second point is that music theory is (or at least should be) descriptive and not prescriptive. Theory is best used to understand why a piece of music has the effect that it does, not how you should write a piece of music. The prior will expand your musical voice and the latter would constrain it. When you look at the broader definition of music theory that includes out there stuff like Coltrane's tone circle, traditional folk music (not as seen through the lens of 18th century European music) and crazy tuning systems and scales like Bohlen Pierce etc. and when you use it descriptively, then it can and will be an extremely valuable tool.
Some wise words about the true nature of music in this video, the feeling and the aesthetic point of view. Still, in most transcriptions of, for example, video game music it’s very easy to recognise a piece’s tendencies towards the frame of western music theory: the music is after all normally consistent with the theory. It’s like saying “no, i’ll walk my own way to find the goal, the map is not the reality”, which of course is true, but in the end it seems you followed the map without looking at it. A video like this is probably helpful for those who find them-self bound by the too complex layout of music theory but it’s not the fault of the theory itself since you’ll in the end end up with a transcription perfectly coherent with the conventions of the theory.
I wouldn’t say chord-names are parts of music theory, but with a trained ear you also can identify a full chord with bas-note, melody-note and in-between-notes in a single stroke and then denote it as a certain chord and then transcribe it to the guitar with the grip you prefer, both anatomically and aesthetically. That’s also a work by ear. It’s also done by ear identifying a II-V-I cadence and then lay it out the best way possibly. It probably comes down to creativity in the end.
I must just mention when I transcribed the second Crateria theme (with all the trumpets and shit) from Super Metroid for organ. I did it in my room, without instrument, very much the way you described: I listened to the bas note and the melody and catching all tones in between as I went on. I, unlike you perhaps, wrote it down on sheet paper and with that said, I’d say no or little music theory was involved since music notes constitutes music theory as little as lettes constitute grammar. As the hours went by, 7 pages was filled with beautiful sheet music, ready for anyone to analyse it and say: oh, here’s a mixolydian scale, oh here’s modal chord, oh here’s it changes from E-flat major to F-sharp major, and so on.
End of rant, sorry for the pretentious length and thanks for your and your fellow guitar player’s outstanding work of transcriptions.
This is comforting because I suck ass at music theory, but I still think theory is a useful starting point for doing things like arrangement. Leaning music theory is a great way to “learn” music. Theory teaches you about what exactly music is and how it’s built, and I feel like for most people, once you learn that you just “know” it. It depends on the person, but I think people should look for a middle ground between relying too much on music theory and completely winging it without knowing music theory.
I just came across this video but! he is right, you just need to sit down, grab your instrument, and start making music! Whatever your creativity makes! It won't be great at the beginning, but keep trying, you will get good!
My story why this is true: I once had a crush on a girl in highschool that I didn't know, but she looked out of my league so I thought I had to come up with something to catch her attention and impress her. After much though, I decided to make her a song. I grabbed my cheap guitar (I was starting to be musically inclined) and just started. No musical training whatsoever, just sensitivity for music. After trying things, I finally found a "motif", something that made me think of her. I worked around it and a made a rudimentary song. Unfortunately, I never got to show it to her, but I never forgot that tune, since I spend many hours making it. Many, many years later, I was playing a videogame called "NieR:Automata" when this song called "Peaceful Sleep" comes up... I jumped out of my chair and yelled THAT'S MY SONG! The motif of it is so similar to how mine was... it brought back many memories! I thought to myself "oh look, I was not so wrong after all, maybe she would have liked my song..."
Her name was Lidia...
So! Just make music! Do what you feel like making without much thought of what actual theory tells you!
for me i leverage basic theory for the things i can't hear. specifically for say the inner voices. like you said, for a long time i just pecked around in the few available notes. honestly it worked just fine. i just found that in many cases for songs where the chords aren't super wacky it's much faster if i just know how to play a minor 3rd, major 3rd, 5th, min 7, maj 7 etc. not like the whole chords just the single intervals. i find it's a lot simpler to not remember all these chords/chord positions and shit. i rather just know basically the intervals chords consist of and how to play an interval between any string. don't really need to know the name for everything
Extremely based take. The Chad Music Enjoyer vs the Virgin Music is science nerd. I too am jealous of people who can apply theory to anything.
I’ve been talking to a great drummer and we talked about how musicians should try to find sounds they like as opposed to having a preconceived conception of what their music SHOULD be. Find sounds that you like, be it a chord or melody and play with those. It’s way more fun!
Absolutely agree with this man. I never was a fan of music theory whatsoever and made a bunch of nice short songs by just playing chords and wanting to get a specific mood or certain emotions. It really is great knowing I'm not the only person who felt like this about music and guitar playing in general.
Caveat: This is the first video I've seen from you without you playing guitar. Love the editing, well done!
Theory is useful for learning your instrument and for transcribing so that you can incorporate interesting ideas into your own music that others have spent the time to work out for everyone who listens to their music, to carry the tradition on and on. It makes collaboration easier when people have the same context and already-paved 'roads' to travel to find those off-beaten paths together. In the moment though theory does suck when everyone's worrying about it too much. It's more of an introspective asset you use alone and then take the results with you later to show off.
“I don’t use theory”
Goes onto explaining how he plays different a chord voicing by ear.
You do use theory. You just weren’t looking at a page from a book when you used it. The title of this video should have been:
“You don’t need to STUDY theory to play music”
Theory encompasses so much in regards to music and why things are the way they are. It could be as simple as playing in 4/4 (one of the most common rhythms) or as you mentioned, playing different chord voicings. You apply theory to almost anything you play whether you intentionally learned it or not. And yes the way we learn music theory in the western world is quite biased. It is often only through the lens of classical European musicians. There are lot of different ways of looking at music, and honestly, I encourage everyone to try to learn theory and then apply it to music. Don’t just learn it to learn it. Learn it and apply it to the type of music you enjoy, or use some of its concepts to help guide you in your own music creation.
If you haven’t sat down and tried to formally learn at least some theory, whether with a teacher or by yourself, you will most likely have a hard time sitting down and playing with other serious musicians.
I look at it this way:
“You have to learn the rules to break the rules”
(As a side note music is whatever you want it to be but I promise you learning theory will help you advance as a musician. But as I said it is a tool to help you create and as well as understand. When I wanted to learn jazz I obviously turned to the theory behind jazz music. But guess what? It wasn’t like a 101 this is what music is class. It was “Well I want to be able to play these chords and then improvise but none of these notes sound good.” So naturally, I learned scales, modes, and different chord progressions solely through playing the music and whenever I came across something that puzzled me. It doesn’t have to be out of a textbook)
And in response to his “This wasn’t in my jazz guitar book comment” I would like to add:
First of all I don’t know why you would assume that you have to turn to books and classes to learn theory. As I already mentioned theory is so much more than this stereotypical idea of it. It exists on its own whether you learn it or not...or at least the ideas that make up theory. Why would you try to learn these complex voicings of chords when you 1.) May not even know/understand the basic positions to begin with and 2.) have no idea what notes make up the basic A7 chord position. It doesn’t matter if you turn to a book to learn them or use your ear....it’s theory. This just leads to not only so much confusion but only hurts your ability to learn your instrument and make music in my opinion. These basic chord positions are often used as a template. ESPECIALLY in jazz. When you look at a lead sheet in jazz, the chords are always notated in root positions even if a different voicing was used on the recording. Why? So it encourages you to get creative with what voicings YOU would use. It only tells you the root positions that way you at least can learn the song which then allows you to do whatever you please to the original composition. This also allows you to be quite flexible with the melody as well. But regardless you do whatever suites your musical interests.
You do know music "theory" come after music. Dont you think it redundancy?
The word "theory" is just a coined term, but it sure don't teach you how to enojoy music.
What do you know, music is entertainment not culinary.
That's why classical music fail miserably at attracting listener nowadays, it's not entertain enough.
Music theory is a DLC. Learn how to enjoy music first, do you even watch the whole vid
If you made guitars... they would be called Griffin guitars. That’s sick bro.
Nice, I'm a jazz musician, and I adore musictheorie.
But you are absolutely right.
It sometimes really put some boundries in my improvisation and composing.
Great video!
9:01 That was very reminiscent of "A Hard Day's Night".
Nice to hear that approach works so well with you! But I’d imagine it could be a little more difficult to arrange and communicate all that stuff for a larger group, however well it works for solo stuff
As someone who went through 7 years of music school, I strongly feel this. I went into school composing for fun a great deal. The more I learned, the more boxed in and hesitant I became with writing. I think the point is less that it's not useful, just that you cannot delay the act of writing. Theory will help you write only if you are already engaged with the act of writing to begin with.
Hey Sam, great to hear your perspective on this topic. When composing for my work, I refuse to use chords and think of keys as well. I write polyphonicly, and search for interesting interactions and progressions with the various voices in the piece. I stopped writing with chords years ago as I found it very restrictive and I ended up writing the same kind of things over and over again. Cheers, matey!
Theory is one of those things that too little is confining and too much is overwhelming. Getting the right balance is hard. In my experience, I learned to play long before I learned any theory, and understanding why what I played worked after the fact was much more rewarding. Theory helped me to know why somethings worked and why others didn't, but I'm not sure that I would have been the same player if I had tried following the "rules" from the beginning. I don't think I would have grown, because I would have been too afraid of making what I knew would be "mistakes" instead of learning from them or how to work with them.
I agree. I went through a spell where I was trying to figure out why certain chords were called what they were, and the possible ways to connect them because of their individual notes. I had always played by ear, or watching someone else, or reading tab, and I had a basic understanding of what notes were where. After trying all that, it complicated things, and made me lose interest for years at a time. I think I went from carrying a guitar everywhere with me, to picking it up once or twice a year.
Right now I'm starting to learn how to write songs. And I'm always relieved when I can just pick a key and start trying out those chords/notes. Because from the bajillion possible chords/notes it limits me to just a few and that really helps me. But I also hope that in a few years, when i have a better understanding, I can break free from those limits.
A classmate of mine went to music school for 8 years. He could play literally anything he wanted on the piano and on the guitar. When I asked him about some music concepts he said "whatever sounds good, is good". Years later I met my future wife. She can hear a car crash and write a melody out of it + accompaniment chords in any musical style you like. When she stared giving me lessons she said the exact same words "whatever sounds good, is good". Both of them didn't know the names of the chords they were playing most of the time. They took a basic major or minor chord and just "spiced it up" if necessary.
i think theory has its place, depending on what you do it can make stuff easier. i have played classical cello since i was about 11 and im in high school right now, i used to just memorize pieces and stare at the ground while everyone else was reading the music. that was not sustainable to me but when i started learning guitar and i was learning from tabs and playing mostly by ear it worked really well for me, i could have just kept with learning the guitar that way but i decided to start learning sheet music. i use a mix of music theory and how i started learning, i think the key is to use music theory as a tool rather than a set of the rules of your playing because you are right, it really will restrict you.
I have been composed since I was 14 and I don’t have any school education on that. After 10 years from beginning, I started studying music theory with classical theory that basically claims what is "music" and what is "non-music" and most of the time I end up argue with it and it's theoretical tools that are taken from the magician's hat apparently. Fortunately, however, I found the modern music theory with a more scientific attitude toward music. It’s been fun to analyze old songs and find myself using very modern stuff in a theoretical sense. It makes you feel much better than you really are, at least for a moment.
I received a bachelors in music and although I enjoyed music theory and it’s fun to talk about, it is not that important (ESPECIALLY early 1900’s stuff like twelve-tone BS).I think theory evolved by all these dorks who studied Bach and the greats who just said “oh, this is what he’s doing let’s make these the rules” when they themselves relied on their great aural skills. Ear training is definitely way more important. I got the A+ in advanced music theory and did so bad in the aural skills portion it explains why I cannot write/arrange music or hear anything in my head. Theory is even more useless without basic ear training skills. Music theory 101 may help guide like a map, but I completely agree it’s all with the ear. Now let me ask, considering on how well you are at what you do, do you think anyone can learn relative pitch at least? Any tips lol. I still struggle with hearing/singing intervals as part of ear training but I def agree if one can learn ear training, it will be way more important than theory. P.S. been watching these for years and they’re all spot on great covers of great songs!
I learned by ear and I've heard from some people that my natural style has alot in common with music theory based on how I choose notes when learning a piece of music or creating original things, but I dont know wether or not I fully understand what music theory is or why it would matter.
“What Bach did 70% of the time” BRO IM DEAD 😂
LOL
*he’s not wrong*
Currently on level III of music theory class, I totally agree with your statements. Ear training is definitely huge for deciphering a piece. I love your content man, I just recently picked up the guitar and classical style is definitely acting my eye. I look forward to learning from you in the future. Keep up the great work.
So, basically, music theory is descriptivism. I did not know that!
Given that multiple music channels I follow have released videos about the flaws of music theory in the past week, I guess everybody just spent quarantine looking at the theory textbooks on their shelves and stewing to themselves
Very interesting to learn about your relationship to composition and music theory, I love to see those when they're genuine like this one :)
In my own experience, it took me a great while to learn that you don't need much at all to start composing/improvising. For me, music theory helped me to get a lot of confidence, since I had this basis of theory that I could rely upon. Had I this confidence earlier, I could've started composing and improvising much earlier, and learn a ton from playing w/o theory. I think music theory is very helpful in a ton of ways but theory-detached playing on a instrument is very powerful too. Ultimately, I think that every musician seeking development should explore both of these.
Thanks Sam ! :)
This is spot on! Its like making food you dont know why how or what garlic does to make stuff taste good, it just does so you put it in everything, you dont have to know the history of garlic to know how to use it, and as the late great eddie van halen said his theory "if it sounds good, it is good"
I agree with you that musical theory it's just for describe music in words, but if you know the theory it doesn't bound you in cage you know? It just let you recognize the limitations and that can let you break those walls. I mean it's not necesary the theory to actually do music but it helps a lot and is a short way to do the things other people through history have done before. If you just play random notes till you find something that you like and work together with other ideas it's ok if it works for you but that doesn't mean you are playing off the rules and doing music without theoric limitations, in fact almost everything that sounds good to you are the things that you have listened before. So you are not really out of the cage, its just probably that you are getting to conclusions that someone else made before you. It's ok to play or compose guided by your ear or feelings but that's is the work that many composers through history have done before you so we can take that theory and expand it. Without the theory you're just doing the things the long way, maybe its more enjoyable for you but that doesn't mean that theory is unnecesary, it's just a part pf the music as important as the ear or the feelings.
2:25 This is totally Roxane Elfasci's cover of Clair de Lune, right?
I’m a decent professional musician (on the cello) and I use very little theory, but I do mostly just read music so that requires some theory- just not the kind they teach in a theory class. When I write songs (on the guitar) I mostly use singing and just getting the sound how I want. Luckily on guitar I have an instructor that is amazing with theory and has a great approach to teaching songwriting and chord patterns/voicings :). Very catchy title and thumbnail!
Honestly for me, this video is misleading for anyone getting into music. Music theory isn't for everyone I get that and no one said you need to use it to write or explain what you've written. BUT I can sure as guarantee there is theoretical explanation for whatever you've come up with your ears. Music theory does not determine what you like but just helps explain what you like about it. It's just a tool to justify the things musicians have used time and time again. If someone used it before in music there is a way to explain it in theory. Also half the reason you like a note or chord you 'randomly' choose is because it's been ingrained into our culture and thus our music theory repertoire. Someone has played it before in that context so they had to find a way to justify it within theory. People are just justifying what they think sounds good in a theoretical way and part of the reason they think it sounds good is because of the theory that exists already. The music originally came first 100% that i can agree with you on but we are way passed that point by now.
Personally, when I write music I do not pick the chords because of theory but i use theory to explain to myself why i do in fact like what Ive chosen. I choose almost 100% of my notes based on 'feel' and then later go back and look at the theory and am often surprised at what my ear gravitates towards. Also there is nothing AT ALL wrong with picking a key to play around in when writing especially if you are in a collaborative writing session. It does not mean you need to stay with that key and it can easily be transposed later but it can be a good starting point. It can just help you to guide yourself to things that you might find pleasing. And the key does have an affect, as remember its a different fundamental frequency and basis of notes and frequencies following that. For me, the more theory I know and the more I can see the scales and relationships between everything, the better I am at playing and composing. Also if you think theory is entirely mathematical and void of emotion, understand that each chord can have an emotional 'function' or multiple functions. Music theory can easily be used to explain extremely emotional or 'feel' things. I understand this is not the case for everyone and its not everyones cup of tea but I just think your thinking of music theory in the completely wrong way and everyone should give it a chance.
Music theory is not a set of rules you need to follow but simply a mathematical explanation for what the relationship between the frequencies you are playing is. After-all rules are meant to be broken!
PS. I strongly agree that westernized classical music theory culture is wack and pretentious af and needs to change and be more diversified with world culture and music.
I started learning music theory as I started composing and playing guitar, because my teacher focus my training in these three aspects. So I don't think at all like you. What sucks is the mindset behind "THEORY VS PRACTICE". As you said, theory is just a way to describe what happens in practice, just aiming to hep you understand music and make better music. The problem is that some people see theory as a end in itself, or a selfcontained thing.
When you study classical harmony, you're learning the tricks our classical friends like Mozart or Bach used to write their music. This is classical harmony, and you may use it or not for your compositions. It's going to help you to understand music only if you practice it writing stuff and learning where it works and where it doesn't. Jazz harmony is the same, but less flexible (as it's a bit more complex, classical harmony is actually very simple). How the old harmony books are called? "Practice of harmony". It's not a coincidence.
And of course the ability to read music is super important if you like classic music, which you should as there are tons of great stuff there. You can download a lot of them from imslp.org, which is free, and you can learn a lot listening to them and watching the scores. This way you use your eyes to train your ears. And you learn new resources to your own music if you're a composer. Or you enjoy more the music as you know what the composer did and you understand why (which is fun and fulfilling).
As I said, practice is key. And I agree with you, don't let the "theory" limit your "practice".
Theory should be avoided until dexterity is up to stuff.
Been playing 20 years. Studied theory for the last 2. Thank God.
Although ear training is more important.
for me, "theory" helps with getting my ideas out, but only to an extent. but a lot of how it helps is just through giving names to chords/scales. like, if i hear a melody in my head, it feels easier to play it on an instrument if i can already hear the mode, or at least if i don't know what it is i can start with a good bet and go from there. but yeah, it imo has limitations.
That video has just motivated me to work on my compositions. Every now and them I come up with a motive or a thems that I like, but I just dont know how to develop It. Now It is becaming clear that in not necessarily because I dont know theory. It is just because I didnt try. Thanks for making that video.
That's a very interesting perspective. I am a jazz trumpeter and I love to learn about theory for improv as I frequently take up as many solos as I can, but I feel similarly that theory kinda muddles things. Most of the time I just want to know the chord progression of the solo then I'll spend my own time noodling until I find the group of notes that sound best inside and outside the chord. Seems to have worked well for me so far, but I'm nowhere near a professional.
This video really helped me. I never took classes or paid attention to music theory, I always played by ear and just played what felt good to me on the guitar. I always thought I was hamstrung by not learning theory and that I would unlock my full potential by actually getting around to learning it. I'm glad to know that's the not the case. I'm just gonna keep slapping fingers down dawg.
The first song I’m trying to arrange is metal gear solid theme, but I’m thinking that the 5 fret spread melody doesn’t work with the bass
Terminology =/= Theory. I don’t even think it’s possible to play music without using theory, at least in an intuitive sense.
Question is Sam, would you have got where you have if you hadn't done those music classes. I know a lot of virtuoso players that slag off music theory, but turns out they usually did quite a lot as a kid...
Lol at the "what key" point when writing. Often you literally can't decide what key to play a particular melody in. Your guitar decides for you. Especially in Soviet Russia.
Oh yeah. And you might write a totally different song depending on what kind of guitar you have. If the bass notes are muddy, you work around them. If long notes weaken too quickly, you use shorter notes. Listen to the guitar and it will help you choose the notes that it does best.
I agree with this 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000%
I'm so glad i understood this a couple years ago. And i tell people the same thing. Composing music comes from the mind, not knowledge.