Don’t do the thing studied and practiced across several agricultural disciplines because, “the plant knows what to do”. But does it know what I want it to do?
I would have to agree, my state just went legal to grow but I have outdoors for many years. I've topped and left plants alone, no top makes trimming a lot faster. The plant does know what to do, it put leaves where it needs it and not where you want it. Can't knock it until you try it man. I guess if your pinching every gram then rock on but for quality looking donkey buds is the reason I let the plant do its thing.
Why would anyone top a plant when it is already flowering anyway. You would loose bud growth in the recovery time but if you want to do it in early veg then go for it.
To slow down vertical growth. Lets say u vegged too long, and the plant running out of height with plenty if stretch days left. In this care you'd top. It slows down the vertical
@@juanbuddha4202 in that case you should be accounting for the stretch room in your grow space, knowing the traits of what genetics you have, and when to switch over the light cycle, that's not a topping problem that's a growing problem.
It's not recommended but sometimes the plants stretch too much and grow into the lights. At that point you have to make a judgement call. Let the tops be bleached and shade the rest of the canopy or just take the top off a few branches to stunt the stretch
You're gonna get a bigger top bud but that's it. Your yield will overall be smaller. If you're growing for yields, it doesnt matter how big your top bud is. What you want is better light intensity spread evenly across the canopy and you're never gonna get that with a christmas tree type plant.
@@chrisblair3081 This guy is talking about big facilities and not your average "one plant in the backyard grow". Everybody who did bigger grows cant relate to "dont top and your plants will be better". It really depends on so much things. I wouldnt trust this guy.
@@StotheEtotheB oh I have 82 acres, definitely not a 1 plant grow lol. I'm just speaking from almost 20 years of "gorilla" growing experience. I've topped,fim, stake trained and stressed in my grows, personally I believe outdoors some light LST is really all you need to do. No I haven't pulled 3lbs off 1 plant, I usually avg over a 1/2 to 1. But when your trimming 24 or more plants that are over 8 feet tall and have 6 foot long bottom branches by yourself you appreciate how the plant is just buds with a few leaves. All the bud sites have tons of room and the plant clears itself out. No stress means it never stopped growing, doubt many people in these comments have had stumps as thick as their wrist coming out of the ground lol
I do scrog and mainlining as I have between 8 and 10 weeks to veg waiting for flowering to finish! Both methods give me the best results with my evenly spread 60w QB's with lm301h EVO diodes 3500°k only (50 panels in a 10x10...soon 1 over each sq/ft @30w for even more efficiency...I will reach the 2gpw!)
@@dipster14Hi! Those net aren't useful...I use a solid piece of fence with 3x3 holes and as soon as I reach the third node then I start to use it...I put the plant against one of the pot side to go in the opposite direction...you grow horizontally pinching a lot the main stem to fill it...8 weeks are more than enough to do it Have a lifted one and lots of good vibes from France
id suggest to delay ur topping in about a week or two and then u might lose a week by stunted growth on the topped plant but u can clone what u r topping and essentially you gain back whatever time it took to grow that plant(since it dosen't need to start from a seed and just need to take the 10 or so days to root)+ another plant(which if you keep topping and cloning like that it will grow exponentially lol)
I use GML Leaf topping and flower in two weeks, with clones. Only blocking leaves and undergrowth are removed We Usually run 6 in a 31 x31 inch tent. CoCo Hempy Buckets. Best yield was 11.11 ozs I grow only for quality, so big yields aren’t relevant Using Wollastonite as per Dr Bugbee affords the plants Si throughout. The branches are like dowels. Not a lot of flopping. JM2¢
This is why you do all the topping within the first month. Get like 16 main stems and everything level while it’s still tiny and then let it grow with a trellis. 1 month 8 plus tops for 16 main stems then 4 months no topping. Get a blanket of buds on a 1 foot tall plant.
@@lmpedro2b4u96 yea 5 month instead of 4 really if you top a lot. I have seen people do low stress training without topping but yeah, just looks like the plant is confused rather than structured. If it works then that’s good.
I'm 56 and may or may not have started growing in the swamps of Florida in the 1980's 1990's ...now with a cultivation license I grow indoors and have been for a few years. I've tried topping and not topping many times indoors and out. I currently do not top. The reason is this ...the top main cola is the cream of the crop so to speak. It ALWAYS has been in my experience. I can get a slighty bigger yield by topping and training...but for me personally...letting it do it's thing naturally always gives me my prized flower on top. Topping a plant eliminates that top. If your just out for a bigger yield ...hey...whatever works for you if topping is your thing. I only grow for personal medical reasons and everyone that's seen my plants are in awe. I grow in my own blend of living organic soil and it takes me a couple weeks longer to go from seed to harvest than going hydroponics...but the reward is an undeniably better taste and smelling flower. Good luck and happy growing 😊 !
One word: Mold risk. For some, getting the humidity right is hard. Especially outdoor where i live. Lot´s of shitty weather and high humidity in the morning in summer. Lost one head bud due to mold, i just started growing since it just became legal here. No pro here, just my opinion concerning bud rot
Decades ago, I used to grow a mix of sativas and indicas. I noticed on (some) sativas varied greatly in potency from the top colas to the bottom ones, and I stopped topping them. I never noticed that on any indicas, though. But they also never needed it in my 7" height grow area.
Definitely skill dependent. He describes how bad he was at topping and then also end it with "I don't think I'll ever top a plant again.... in flower" like who even is this doofus? 💀
Exactly. Maybe all the cookies bull he runs doesn't but alot of plants/strain will Christmas tree hard. But if I'm running a high plant count minimal/no existent veg I'm not going to top either
I do the same , if you need the side branches to catch up a bit just keep taking the fan leaves of the main cola and that will slow it down a little , then bend the side branches out to let the new growth fill in the center top, its a great method
he was talking about AUTOS when he said this. for the record. topping and bending "is cool for photos and everything" 2:15 this video has started some problems because people think he was talking about photos.
I think he talk about regular seeds. I go for it too whit the regular seeeds, max 4.5 gallon pot,no space pot touching each other ,cause u know at the finish was half('f ur luky) and then after showing sex i put the net ,if the temperature don go up and down u can finish with side branch at 2cm from apical canopy, much difficult if have more genetics different ,but on a hunt 25 of veg and i flip even in the day 23 ,but normally took max 30days of veg and 12/16 of flower time to recognize sex. In veg time i also take 2 cut of hich cause after i try all the girlrs and i make another selection. Tipically i finish with 2/3 pheno, but sometime can happens u take 6/7 is mi best i have rextricted space unfurtunally. With the cut and with feminized i go for fimming, topping and lst/hst sometime booth in same time other only top/or lst/hst training. Even with the net the yeld is worst when u dont top ur plants, less risk of hermy if u dont be good recover the plants (esempl top, traspot and flipper your plants, this need more to the genetics and no at all resist and some go stressed some in a good way some in bad way possibility hermy, nut locked a lot of small bud,other way the problem is mold much on the main cola. ✌️
@@damianocococcia3973 i dont care what you think, i explained what he meant in autistic detail. if you still cant understand basic english then there is no hope for you.
@@damianocococcia3973 i know you think hes talking about regular seeds. as my comment states A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT....thats WHY i made the comment.
@@microfx I started strapping her down early I'm about 10 weeks now bro...just keep topping but I'm done now...bout to flip into 12/12 NXT week get her goin
I like to top above the 4th node when the plant has 5 or 6 nodes and ill keep nodes 3 and 4 then remove everything below that, then ill top em one more time and get 8 juicy mains which is good enough for me in my setup 👌👌
Depending on the strain in the flowering room I have 8 to 10 weeks to veg...that's why I do mainlining...but before I have 2 room I use to veg four weeks no topping just training and pinching to fill my net who was a piece of fence but I use to do SOG so 64 plants in 1 gallon and no veg...but with LEDs and mainlining I pull 1.7/1.8gpw on average from seeds organic living soil and amendments no a/c no co2 no chemicals no synthetic...nothing taller than 3 feet...it takes time to tame plants but you save veg time as it can't take longer than flowering time!
I don't have a lot of experience with growing autos in general, one year I had 2 plants 1 I didn't top and the 2nd I did, right after the first branches showed up, the one I topped did grow slower for about 2 weeks but then it kicked in and was bigger with more buds then the 1st one, my only problem was I never saw the final result and how much would I got from both because some nosey fucker found my plants and called the cops, how big difference in yield is when you top and don't top the same type of plant?
@@nenadpopov3601 best not to top them unless you have seeds to spare, but..as you say, no later than week three for autos, because they transition to flower during 4 and 5 weeks.They will only stunt for about 10 or 12 days.So let them run til about 12 to 13 wks🙏
My problem with topping is that the same effect is achieved by just bending the main stem over. It'll do exactly the same thing except you have another top to flower. I've done a side by side and the one that didn't get topped but just bent over reacted the same but recovered quicker and had an extra big cola when done flowering. I only really top mothers when they're getting a bit large now. I always just bend the main stem over for a more even canopy Don't get me wrong, im not saying topping is bad, just less stress and recovery when you bend it instead.
Strain depending. I have also done side by sides and found topping to be less stressful on some cultivars. Topping can make more symmetrical plant by far.
About 10 years ago when COB leds were top dog I use to grow.(put my wife through college with my hobby). I used srog a couple of times but I found what worked best for me in my space (2.5 x3.5) was to bend the tops all the way over in an alternating fashion. My space would be completely filled up and would harvest about 0.9g a watt. When I topped and srog I would only pull about 0.6 g per watt
I would disagree, I had 2 pineapple express autos, 1 I topped the other I didn't, the one I did slowed down in growth for about a week but when it started growing it went wild, much more branches developed and buds were a bit smaller but they were all over the plant, and the first one was a bit shorter and had less final product, I think it has a lot to do with the strain.
@@colinferguson972 I was about to ask is it strain related, cause I had 2 pineapple express autos 1 I topped the other I didn't and the one I did was crazy bigger with a lot more yield.
Sometimes plants top themselves ...i think the issue with topping are most are doing it too late if youre going to top you should top near or to the end of seedling stage for bushier plant i think topping in mid vegg is what causes the smaller bud structure in certain strains imo...
I’m fairly new to growing. I’ve only got about 4 grows from seed to harvest. I have never topped a plant. I have been thinking about doing it on this grow. But I have my reservations about doing so. In my last grows I grew in a 5x5 with 4 plants in 30 gallon non till all organic BAS products. Each plant I got no less than 8 oz per plant with a Veg time of 3 months and 10 to 14 weeks of flower time. This time tho I got me a bigger tent 10x10 and have 16 plants but only going to keep 12 of them this time around. I do want to try different methods and techniques along the way. I barely planted the seeds on 8/3 all but one seed popped and are doing excellent, I even had a twin. I watch build a soil and other channels to gain as much knowledge as possible in this adventure. Any advice if I should or shouldn’t would be great
I always top and have killer results, never though of ditching the practice but its very interesting to hear Ted suggested to nit tip and have bigger flower growth, for that Im giving this an experimental run. Top VS Untopped in the same space side by side, this way all plants get the same environment, light intensity and feedings.
I normally don't top outdoors, just let it do its thing... be the easy trim you've ever done I bet. Let's em spread out and grow leaves where it needs it. I'd be willing to bet it's not a huge difference in weight either. When your holding a Pringles can sized nug there's a lot there lol
"the plants been around longer than us, it knows what to do" is a nonsensical statement, the cannabis plant hasnt ever "known" it needs to produce bigger yields for humans. also i doubt the statement that the cannabis plant has been around longer than humans is true in the first place, also, his issue about one side taking off and one side not, that issue is easily fixed with NATURAL plant hormones, such as auxins, gibberellins and cytokinins etc. using dehydrated raw young green coconut water powder and dried insect powder would instantly give equal growth! lol! using Triacontanol would give even growth across ALL side shoots anyway!! so this is a non-problem, being solved by someone who doesnt really know what theyre talking about! lol! "less A's and more b's and c's when you top" thats absolutely not true, even canopy, means even quality, so if you can produce "A's" in the first place, youll produce a consistent "A", with topping... honestly this guys full of it! and "it knows what to do" again??? like huh?? yes, the plant DOES know what to do, topping comes from the plant still thriving if it was snapped in nature! the plant KNOWS to move energy into side shoots if the main stem gets snapped, so that more main stems come from it and the plan has a chance to carry on growing instead of dying off! we MANIPULATE this and create more main stems which can result in even canopies and bigger plants with a more efficient use of space!! this guy is full of it, the smug little looks like he knows it all throughout the videos is cringeworthy too
I grow outdoors Hawaii and the faster I can flower them the better.Topping them takes too long for them to recover.As soon as they get 2-3 feet tall in veg I flower them.The longer theyre growing the more likely too get PM, and pest problems.
I didn't top any last year, had 1 14 feet tall with 2 bird nest in it , another over 12 foot , was budding massively, we got a big rain and the weight of the buds literally tore the branches off
U need to add silica to Ur feeding or water n it will strengthen ur branches...I don't use a trellis..even my biggest bud won't break my plants n I have some 6 or 7 gram dried buds before
"I don't THINK"? Completely wrong, but this is just standard stuff people who've been growing for 50 - 60 years hear daily by teenagers. Who knows more, "the Novice or the life long grower"? The longer you do something the more you know! First of all, some plants(the sativas) can get up to 20(+) feet high, 2nd, you do not want your plants to grow over your fence(6')! This is what I've done for over 55 years. From the moment plant hits "the 3 nodes" on the young plant, you top the main stem! Then after that, until the plant is weeks into flowering, every new stem you count 1, 2, 3(nodes) and TOP, then that topping sends out new branches and again, count, 1, 2, 3 nodes and top again! At the end, you have buds the size of your fist on most parts of the plant, except for the bottom part. Down there, the sun usually can't get to the LOW branches, which you can just remove by the 2nd month! Everything else is just a Myth!!!
So, this is an interesting subject. Firstly, topping plant will improve things 80% of the time. What I have noticed is that some cultivars do not respond well at all. One in particular that I found didn't like topping was Kali mist.
Just a quick question @3:15 he is talking about a 14 day veg. This does not include germination time right ? Rather my question would be what does a 14 day veg equal to if we take germination into account ?
I think people are forgetting that Mike is an indoor cultivator with thousands of plants. Yeah, if you have 6 plants outdoors, then topping is going to be beneficial for you. If you're working on a 63 day flower cycle with a 14 day veg indoors, speed is important and topping definitely slows growth. He also talks about how Uniformity is the reason he stopped topping, and when you are steering thousands of plants, consistency and uniformity is huge. "Those branches will get to the top"; would you rather have two really big branches, or eight big branches? For larger-scale, indoor cultivators, you would rather have eight big branches...
I harvested 40 inch clones in only 60 days by planting on july 20, no pesticide and no caterpillars in San Francisco bay, other years I had caterpillars at harvest time, somehow skipped catapillar season by planting later and far less effort to grow, urine and fish tea keeps the plants growing green.
I grow outdoors in the south bay at 2 different spots every year, some years we get hit by moths really bad, other years, not a moth to be seen, I don’t really have an explanation for this, have just assumed that due to environmental conditions in the bay area sone years we get a lot of moths and some years none?
I think I heard 14 day veg then flip so, I have to assume this is with established clones & not from seed ? I'm sure commercial growers go the clone route for strain stability. The reason I bring this up is because I have no room for mothers & clones and I like trying new stuff all the time. It's my understanding that if starting from seed the plant should be at least 4 weeks old to be mature enough to flower and if I don't top, tall plants end up in the lights. I might try vegging for two weeks & then flip to see if that takes out some of the stretching.
Experiment and see what works best for you. I have been popping seeds one or two at a time and putting them into flower over the last year or so. I am on plant number 14. I have flipped them in as little as 3 weeks all the way to around 9 weeks. I treated each one a little different till I figured out what works for me and my set up. I top 3 times then flip to flower after that. Works for me.
Plants used to grow in nature where there’s a lot of heavy winds that might break their tops.. I’ll just let you imagine the rest.. so topping is partially existing in nature.. we used to grow olive trees, oranges/citrus trees.. we always topped them and that’s a critical part of what old school did for centuries.
Was saying this years ago but dispos wanted smaller 1gram buds so i started topping to increase tops and bring nug size down so i didnt have to extra trimming time to break big colas down to smaller buds boils down to time and payroll
0:57 you will always have one shoot that becomes dominant and wants to take over for the piece you removed the apical tip is the hormone producer for the plant, consider it the hypothalamus, topping a plant is like shooting someone in the head, it's just that plants are a little more resilient than us!
Don’t you get more weight off not topping flipping early and have one big main cola? I’ve heard Barneys says so it also depends on comparing the 2 if you did the same veg and flower period plus same mediums and environment and space.
Not one of these podcasts ever differentiates between auto flower and photo periods , isn't that a significant factor besides weather it's an outdoor or indoor grow.
This how I feel about certain do’s and don’t from “professionals” !!!DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!!! Everyone is different. Topping may not work for you, especially in flower. Where as it may work for many others in Veg.
I appreciate the knowledge shared here. I assumed that Mike was talking about not topping in veg, but the last statement is "I don't think I will ever top again a plant in flower." Was the whole conversation about topping in flower?
I topped my skunk strain at the third knode I'm growing 5 large colas now strange thing is that one of the bottom colas is growing more dense that the top ones that are getting more sun at the top is that normal?
I´ve only had few times that one side grew bigger after topping but I also bend my plants completely to flat in most cases. I do have some strains I would never top or bend though they just grow and usually get pretty even.
Outdoor growers in high humidity areas usually find bud rot in one main cola in every third plant. Exceptionally large colas are a nightmare in this scenario. Don't top and you might lose 30% of an entire plants yield from rot. Top and you might only lose 4% from rot. Simple maths.
Honestly topping isnt bad BUT the timing of when you top is VERY important. But there is so much more info needed to make an educational decision. For example how long you veg for, do you top in veg or in flower, how "hard" you top (topping/FIMing) and strain/health of your plants.
There's many factors that go into a grow not just topping vs not topping. Light, grow media, environment, cultivars, etc many things affect the outcome of your plants growth. You just have to understand your grow and what works and what doesn't work as well to maximize the plants potential.
Yes those factors are important for a successful grow but you are leaving out one of the most crucial ones. One of the most important things is talking to your plants, that has been shown to add 12.2% extra growth especially if you say the right words with just the right tone.
He’s talking about commercial grows, where they have lots of headroom. Homegrowers are usually limited overhead and need training to get that even canopy. I go with at most 5 nodes, and that includes topping. I’ve never tried just LST on the meristem. It seems unmanageable to me.
For photoperiod, wait until the new growth just starts to show (2-3cm), then pinch it off on a diagonal, leaving 1/3rd if that new growth on the side FURTHEST from the highest node. This will stunt the top growth, forcing growth hormones equally into the side branches on the lower node, but also has a chance for that main stem to recover and actually push out those 2 new branches and then keeping growing like normal. This is how you FIM. With even lighting and some LST it will grow evenly.
I liked this as fim can be a good method in certain situations, although I find it really isn't necessary 🌱 just get your light down low enough that the plant knows growing it's main stem isn't a great idea anymore as it doesn't feel very nice up nearer the light & so it will pop that energy into the side branches instead 🌱& they'll go join the high up party 💡🌱 🎉🍹mine do that & I don't use magic seeds 👀
@@wardaldo69 hey you cant make the sun get any closer if you wanted too XD, no but seriously i got a headband and super lemon haze photoperiod that look like they really want to be Christmas trees, if they dont know whats good for them in the next week.. snip snip.
I had a good one going and a week before I was about to take it somehow while I was at work my light that was hanging somehow fell from the ceiling fell just right and split the plant down the middle.
The only time you dont have to top is growing outdoors, since it changes the natural structure of the plant it cannot support its weight as well as the christmas tree shape. You want to top indoors so you can have an even canopy for most efficient use of your lights. Its not that complicated.
I don't top mine either I just bend the whole top way down and that makes everything grow uniform. Why cut off good growth when you can keep it and still have a level canopy
@@bassinsierrayou may get great yields, but studies show that if you LST correct it will give the most yield on autoflowers! If you LST low enough it will be as effective as FIM and without the stress.
@@bassinsierrathat's a lie it's all based on genetics with autos, I got 7oz off a single auto without topping or any LST, most people are quick to bash autos because they're sensitive to grow but if you do it right and have the right genetics you will get a heavy yield without all the new age techniques
I just take a twist tie when it's getting too tall for my system and bend the tip back to the stem. The main cola readjusts and while it's making a sideways s shape all of those other branches are acting like the plant was topped. Then I pull the tie off and have a fat even canopy with the main cola still growing.
I top because if I don't my plants end up 15 feet tall and completely unmanageable for one man. Outdoors for personal consumption is VASTLY different than indoors for commercial production. Quite honestly a completely different process and end product. I prefer sungrown in actual dirt.
On auto's, if I have a fast growing little one with 4 nodes. I carefully snip and always get two nice large tops. Yes the lower branches come up too if they have enough light.
You are correct. But, untopped Plants in the Outdoors can grow to 15+ft. easy in a good environment. Almost that Diameter, too. They are kind of an Eye Sore. A Temptress for Theft. There are Reasons to Trim and Tie Down. Depends on the situation. Big Plants have limb break problems when the weight comes on. Wind and Storms can devastate your work. Monster Plants may be what you want. But, they come with inherent weaknesses. As for the Quality? 6 months of growing season in the central US. It's finer Wine in My Opinion.
Weird you say that.. all of my guys at the shop are always trying to top my shit and usually I would say yeah, I’ve been wanting to see how my plants respond on their own. I’ve had some of my best runs to date on a strain I’ve grown over the last 6 years. Topped them once and just let them ride into the netting. Zero training involved. I just use a net for support and allow them to find their own spots. As long I don’t have tops overlapping I left them alone. Holy shit their tops went wild.
I wonder why he did not talk about mold at all. For some growers, getting the humidity and temperature is hard. Smaller buds from topping the plant lowers molding risks.
It depends on your grow setup. In a real grow house your not worried about height. Pruning, pinching, topping are use to grow plants bushier rather than increase height Im sure some level of trichomes are lost or put on hold to heal the growth aswell and spur more growth
I don't top but different method, I just bend the tops over and the sides catch up to top and bend down the next set and so on. Then let them all go and they will grow up almost equally and becomes a bush. It looks like you topped because of the amount of colas but they are all non topped and strong
I guess no-topping depends on the genetics too, no? Different genetics branch differently and no-topping and no-lst for some means really poor branching and smaller yields IMO
I was doing LST back in the early 1980s mostly bc i didn't like damaging the plant & believed i got better results laying it over at about 4 weeks or so.
Overview In this video, Mike from @_thevillage and @symbioticgenetics explains why he stopped topping his plants. Influenced by Ted from Alien Labs, Mike found that not topping results in bigger nugs and more consistent canopy growth. He noticed that topped plants often grew inconsistently, leading to lopsided plants. By not topping, he achieved better light penetration and healthier plants. Mike maintains a low plant density and believes in letting plants fill the space naturally, finding this method more efficient in terms of labor and nutrients. He concludes that he will not top plants in flower again. Timestamps 00:00 - 00:54 Mike discusses why he stopped topping his plants and the influence of Ted from Alien Labs. 00:00 Mike explains he no longer tops his plants and mentions Ted from Alien Labs who influenced this decision. Ted suggested that not topping results in bigger nugs. 00:19 Mike recounts his experience with topping, noting that it often resulted in inconsistent plant growth. He observed that sometimes one shoot would grow faster, causing a lopsided plant. 00:55 - 02:29 The benefits of not topping plants and the resulting plant structure. 00:55 Mike noticed a significant improvement in canopy consistency when he stopped topping. He emphasizes the importance of giving plants enough space. 01:13 Mike highlights the natural branching that occurs without topping and urges growers to trust the process. He points out that lower branches can reach the top if not crammed. 01:36 Many facilities, including Jungle Boys, have stopped topping. Mike believes not topping allows plants to grow naturally, resulting in better light penetration and overall plant health. 01:56 Mike contrasts the natural growth of untopped plants with the manipulated growth under nets. He finds that untopped plants perform better in terms of light penetration and yield quality. 02:30 - 03:45 Discussion on plant density and efficiency. 02:30 Mike explains that his plant density remains the same despite not topping, and he prefers a lower plant count. He grows on 5-foot wide tables with plants spaced three wide. 02:53 He highlights the labor and nutrient efficiency of not topping. Mike prefers to let plants fill the space naturally. 03:07 Although the plants may look sparse initially, they fill in the space well with a 14-day veg period. Mike finds this method very efficient and does not plan to top plants in flower again.
I top to release the auxins hormone to make sure that the side shoots become main shots if you don't top i don't care how much light reaches the lower branches they will not become main colas.
@ I have 12 lights in flower and trellis set up, supper cropping could work, usually the trellis helps with larger set ups as it’s a little less work load then super cropping 108 plants lol . I might give it a shot though, thanks!
This guys only talking from his very own experience, he messed it up and thinks the rest of the world will aswel, topping is a Goated strat dont listen to a single work he said
Personally i do both methods of topping and scrog method..Ive learned you can get the same results if you weave them through a trellis net or tying them down
I top some outdoor plants just to get em more bushy but my indoor I don't do anything than defoliate and maybe some lst clips if I'm trying to steer a branch a certain way usually upwards to save lateral room
Top between 4-6th node in vegetative stage and you're good. Some dislike it, but most truck through it. Topping should ofc be avoided, but some stretch so much it's necessary to top.
Mainlining is the best to make all colas with no side branches in a plant.. but yes, it makes slow growth after topping ,the more topping the longer to wait.. but the final result will be all fat colas from the main stem "plant with all top buds no side branching".
bigger nugs? No, the right thing to say is bigger nug. The point of topping is to have every branch to get equal light, which results in evenly sized buds, and an overall bigger yield. without topping you'd have one big nug, and the rest are just mids
I definitely get it in the area of warehouse grows for max density but then again on a smaller level ive done well with toppings but makes sense what he is saying
Topped all 3 of my outdoor sativas above the 8th node. Now tey are all about 7 feet tall and 5-6 feet in diameter and just started flowering. Yeah I'll continue doing that.
I’ve been leaning towards this in a big way. Also the amount of veg I have to do with more plants not topped is so much less. I don’t think it’s best practice for low plant counts. That’s when I lean towards a supercrop to get canopy filled and even. Also never top a plant in flower no matter what.
I feel after watching hundreds of growers the main mistake is light burn and going to far with flower and foxtailing …if you only have the main cola slightly above the rest you got a better chance of saving the rest of the plant …instead or light burn or foxtailng happening across the whole canopy you’ll get a warning with tops …..the best buds on the plants ain’t t the top anyways it’s 10% down thr plant the
Maybe in small spaces like a 2x4 tent topping might still be better if you're trying to get production per cubic foot. Using a trellis and bending the plants in a 2x4x5 ft tall, I was able to get as high as 23 and 1/2 oz with 550 w of cobs. And that's using four plants. But vegging takes longer couple more weeks. I mean if you're going by back-to-back runs this couple of weeks for you to run. Put together is a whole nother run. Maybe it equals out. Who knows But when you have height restrictions, that's when it becomes an issue for me. I probably shouldn't try to grow a haze in a 5-ft tall tent, but I can make it work with topping and bending
If you want to learn to grow with Athena, check out The Athena Handbook:
www.athenaag.com/
Don’t do the thing studied and practiced across several agricultural disciplines because, “the plant knows what to do”. But does it know what I want it to do?
Stop wanting something then 🤷🏻♂️
@@dannydawn 🤦🏻♂️
@@erdbeerzwiebel3404 you‘re clueless and judgmental. 👌
I would have to agree, my state just went legal to grow but I have outdoors for many years. I've topped and left plants alone, no top makes trimming a lot faster. The plant does know what to do, it put leaves where it needs it and not where you want it. Can't knock it until you try it man. I guess if your pinching every gram then rock on but for quality looking donkey buds is the reason I let the plant do its thing.
@@chrisblair3081 so, let me just take a wild guess, you’ve never been on a commercial grow?
“i dont think ill ever top a plant again in flower”
well fucking duh
That's what I was thinking 😂😂
no topping IN BUD WTF
pretty sure he ment "and" not topping and then flowering. He said he tops his moms so only plants that stay in veg.
no, toppin is not at flowerin.
For real! What the fuck was he talking about?😂
Why would anyone top a plant when it is already flowering anyway. You would loose bud growth in the recovery time but if you want to do it in early veg then go for it.
To slow down vertical growth. Lets say u vegged too long, and the plant running out of height with plenty if stretch days left. In this care you'd top. It slows down the vertical
@@juanbuddha4202 in that case you should be accounting for the stretch room in your grow space, knowing the traits of what genetics you have, and when to switch over the light cycle, that's not a topping problem that's a growing problem.
He meant topping plants that are supposed to flower and which are not mothers.
It's not recommended but sometimes the plants stretch too much and grow into the lights. At that point you have to make a judgement call. Let the tops be bleached and shade the rest of the canopy or just take the top off a few branches to stunt the stretch
@@juanbuddha4202 no, in such a case you don't top, you'd resort to super-cropping
You're gonna get a bigger top bud but that's it. Your yield will overall be smaller. If you're growing for yields, it doesnt matter how big your top bud is. What you want is better light intensity spread evenly across the canopy and you're never gonna get that with a christmas tree type plant.
Spot on man.
In a tent... sun is moving all day
@@chrisblair3081 This guy is talking about big facilities and not your average "one plant in the backyard grow". Everybody who did bigger grows cant relate to "dont top and your plants will be better". It really depends on so much things. I wouldnt trust this guy.
@@StotheEtotheB oh I have 82 acres, definitely not a 1 plant grow lol. I'm just speaking from almost 20 years of "gorilla" growing experience. I've topped,fim, stake trained and stressed in my grows, personally I believe outdoors some light LST is really all you need to do. No I haven't pulled 3lbs off 1 plant, I usually avg over a 1/2 to 1. But when your trimming 24 or more plants that are over 8 feet tall and have 6 foot long bottom branches by yourself you appreciate how the plant is just buds with a few leaves. All the bud sites have tons of room and the plant clears itself out. No stress means it never stopped growing, doubt many people in these comments have had stumps as thick as their wrist coming out of the ground lol
He's only vegging for 2 weeks
I prefer LST instead of topping, because you don't loose 4-7 days by wasting the best side branch
I do both but I did notice there's no stunting growth by just using a scrog net
I do scrog and mainlining as I have between 8 and 10 weeks to veg waiting for flowering to finish! Both methods give me the best results with my evenly spread 60w QB's with lm301h EVO diodes 3500°k only (50 panels in a 10x10...soon 1 over each sq/ft @30w for even more efficiency...I will reach the 2gpw!)
@@dipster14Hi! Those net aren't useful...I use a solid piece of fence with 3x3 holes and as soon as I reach the third node then I start to use it...I put the plant against one of the pot side to go in the opposite direction...you grow horizontally pinching a lot the main stem to fill it...8 weeks are more than enough to do it
Have a lifted one and lots of good vibes from France
id suggest to delay ur topping in about a week or two and then u might lose a week by stunted growth on the topped plant but u can clone what u r topping and essentially you gain back whatever time it took to grow that plant(since it dosen't need to start from a seed and just need to take the 10 or so days to root)+ another plant(which if you keep topping and cloning like that it will grow exponentially lol)
I use GML Leaf topping and flower in two weeks, with clones. Only blocking leaves and undergrowth are removed
We Usually run 6 in a 31 x31 inch tent. CoCo Hempy Buckets. Best yield was 11.11 ozs I grow only for quality, so big yields aren’t relevant
Using Wollastonite as per Dr Bugbee affords the plants Si throughout. The branches are like dowels. Not a lot of flopping. JM2¢
One big bud that might have mold in it or a bunch of nice medium buds , I'll keed topping my plants
So true.
Right, no way am I putting months of work into a plant just to lose it all to some bud rot because I wanted to show off some massive flowers.
This is why you do all the topping within the first month. Get like 16 main stems and everything level while it’s still tiny and then let it grow with a trellis. 1 month 8 plus tops for 16 main stems then 4 months no topping. Get a blanket of buds on a 1 foot tall plant.
Nobody wants to veg for 4+ months. Higher plant count minimal veg.
Just low stress train. Topping is pointless. You get way more budding sites from LST.
@@lmpedro2b4u96 you do both. Topping is so you get forearm size main tops and not popcorn or nugget buds from tucked side shoots.
@LeviKerrison bro I get between 10-16 leg sized tops. With just LST. Topping slows down growth by 3-5 days
@@lmpedro2b4u96 yea 5 month instead of 4 really if you top a lot. I have seen people do low stress training without topping but yeah, just looks like the plant is confused rather than structured. If it works then that’s good.
I'm 56 and may or may not have started growing in the swamps of Florida in the 1980's 1990's ...now with a cultivation license I grow indoors and have been for a few years. I've tried topping and not topping many times indoors and out. I currently do not top. The reason is this ...the top main cola is the cream of the crop so to speak. It ALWAYS has been in my experience. I can get a slighty bigger yield by topping and training...but for me personally...letting it do it's thing naturally always gives me my prized flower on top. Topping a plant eliminates that top. If your just out for a bigger yield ...hey...whatever works for you if topping is your thing. I only grow for personal medical reasons and everyone that's seen my plants are in awe. I grow in my own blend of living organic soil and it takes me a couple weeks longer to go from seed to harvest than going hydroponics...but the reward is an undeniably better taste and smelling flower. Good luck and happy growing 😊 !
What do you use for feeding last month if grow ? Looking for all natural nutrient blend .
One word: Mold risk.
For some, getting the humidity right is hard. Especially outdoor where i live. Lot´s of shitty weather and high humidity in the morning in summer.
Lost one head bud due to mold, i just started growing since it just became legal here. No pro here, just my opinion concerning bud rot
Stubborn uneducated old guy thinks he's right based on his anecdotal experience, what the fuck else is new
"I feel the plant just gets to be a plant" 😂😂😂
😂
Yeah what a mutt...
nah i dont need a headbud as big as my whole leg just to find mold in it I keep topping my yields are more then enough
Decades ago, I used to grow a mix of sativas and indicas. I noticed on (some) sativas varied greatly in potency from the top colas to the bottom ones, and I stopped topping them. I never noticed that on any indicas, though. But they also never needed it in my 7" height grow area.
Definitely strain dependent
Definitely skill dependent. He describes how bad he was at topping and then also end it with "I don't think I'll ever top a plant again.... in flower" like who even is this doofus? 💀
Exactly. Maybe all the cookies bull he runs doesn't but alot of plants/strain will Christmas tree hard. But if I'm running a high plant count minimal/no existent veg I'm not going to top either
If you're growing outdoors with seed and you don't want a 15 foot plant, so your neighbor 2 blocks away can see it you need to top
@@pyrotec4577he means he tops his mothers for clones but any plant going into flower will not be topped you’re the doofus for not understanding that
Growing indoor under artificial light in inert mediums with added nutrients but topping is unnatural. Got it.
😂
Lol
😂
💯 he didn't mean to say unnatural 😅
I do the same , if you need the side branches to catch up a bit just keep taking the fan leaves of the main cola and that will slow it down a little , then bend the side branches out to let the new growth fill in the center top, its a great method
he was talking about AUTOS when he said this. for the record. topping and bending "is cool for photos and everything" 2:15 this video has started some problems because people think he was talking about photos.
I think he talk about regular seeds. I go for it too whit the regular seeeds, max 4.5 gallon pot,no space pot touching each other ,cause u know at the finish was half('f ur luky) and then after showing sex i put the
net ,if the temperature don go up and down u can finish with side branch at 2cm from apical canopy, much difficult if have more genetics different ,but on a hunt 25 of veg and i flip even in the day 23 ,but normally took max 30days of veg and 12/16 of flower time to recognize sex.
In veg time i also take 2 cut of hich cause after i try all the girlrs and i make another selection. Tipically i finish with 2/3 pheno, but sometime can happens u take 6/7 is mi best i have rextricted space unfurtunally.
With the cut and with feminized i go for fimming, topping and lst/hst sometime booth in same time other only top/or lst/hst training. Even with the net the yeld is worst when u dont top ur plants, less risk of hermy if u dont be good recover the plants (esempl top, traspot and flipper your plants, this need more to the genetics and no at all resist and some go stressed some in a good way some in bad way possibility hermy, nut locked a lot of small bud,other way the problem is mold much on the main cola.
✌️
@@damianocococcia3973 i dont care what you think, i explained what he meant in autistic detail. if you still cant understand basic english then there is no hope for you.
@@damianocococcia3973 i know you think hes talking about regular seeds. as my comment states A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT....thats WHY i made the comment.
i top and my canopies are on point.
I topped 1 plant 8 times...an it's crazy bushy now
@@grow4profitwow! how many weeks vegs?
@@microfx I started strapping her down early I'm about 10 weeks now bro...just keep topping but I'm done now...bout to flip into 12/12 NXT week get her goin
I like to top above the 4th node when the plant has 5 or 6 nodes and ill keep nodes 3 and 4 then remove everything below that, then ill top em one more time and get 8 juicy mains which is good enough for me in my setup 👌👌
Depending on the strain in the flowering room I have 8 to 10 weeks to veg...that's why I do mainlining...but before I have 2 room I use to veg four weeks no topping just training and pinching to fill my net who was a piece of fence but I use to do SOG so 64 plants in 1 gallon and no veg...but with LEDs and mainlining I pull 1.7/1.8gpw on average from seeds organic living soil and amendments no a/c no co2 no chemicals no synthetic...nothing taller than 3 feet...it takes time to tame plants but you save veg time as it can't take longer than flowering time!
He doesn't top anymore because he didn't do it right
At the end he slipped in a "..while in flower" lol.What eejit tops a flowering plant!?
@@paulie6446ong😭
@@paulie6446 yeah that didn't make sense to me either
I don't have a lot of experience with growing autos in general, one year I had 2 plants 1 I didn't top and the 2nd I did, right after the first branches showed up, the one I topped did grow slower for about 2 weeks but then it kicked in and was bigger with more buds then the 1st one, my only problem was I never saw the final result and how much would I got from both because some nosey fucker found my plants and called the cops, how big difference in yield is when you top and don't top the same type of plant?
@@nenadpopov3601 best not to top them unless you have seeds to spare, but..as you say, no later than week three for autos, because they transition to flower during 4 and 5 weeks.They will only stunt for about 10 or 12 days.So let them run til about 12 to 13 wks🙏
My problem with topping is that the same effect is achieved by just bending the main stem over. It'll do exactly the same thing except you have another top to flower.
I've done a side by side and the one that didn't get topped but just bent over reacted the same but recovered quicker and had an extra big cola when done flowering.
I only really top mothers when they're getting a bit large now. I always just bend the main stem over for a more even canopy
Don't get me wrong, im not saying topping is bad, just less stress and recovery when you bend it instead.
Exactly! Last but not least: You don't waste 4-7 days of vegetation time.
Strain depending. I have also done side by sides and found topping to be less stressful on some cultivars. Topping can make more symmetrical plant by far.
About 10 years ago when COB leds were top dog I use to grow.(put my wife through college with my hobby). I used srog a couple of times but I found what worked best for me in my space (2.5 x3.5) was to bend the tops all the way over in an alternating fashion. My space would be completely filled up and would harvest about 0.9g a watt. When I topped and srog I would only pull about 0.6 g per watt
I would disagree, I had 2 pineapple express autos, 1 I topped the other I didn't, the one I did slowed down in growth for about a week but when it started growing it went wild, much more branches developed and buds were a bit smaller but they were all over the plant, and the first one was a bit shorter and had less final product, I think it has a lot to do with the strain.
@@colinferguson972 I was about to ask is it strain related, cause I had 2 pineapple express autos 1 I topped the other I didn't and the one I did was crazy bigger with a lot more yield.
yea so no topping in flower he says but what about in veg ??
Lmao you can’t be that dumb not to understand what he meant
I never top.
Just bend and you don't lose the main cola, all the buds become main colas.
Same here, but I only squish the stem and bend if it's getting too close to the hps bulb
Pretty much the same here. I also train the branches so the tops are all in the light & evenly spaced. I also lollipop.
@@journeyintococo6996 Yep, gotta give them light and airflow.
I'm with you mate 👍 most of my landraces just become crowns & I get great yields but I mostly grow outdoors
@@bigbasil1908Do u only run a HPS
Depends on plant count, light amount and placement etc etc if you let it go and then fold the main stem over that works really well
Some genetics don’t grow bushy they naturally have one main cola. Topping ensures you get a nice coverage no matter what strain you work with.
Sometimes plants top themselves ...i think the issue with topping are most are doing it too late if youre going to top you should top near or to the end of seedling stage for bushier plant i think topping in mid vegg is what causes the smaller bud structure in certain strains imo...
Well he's talking about clones
We only grow autos and learned to 'Stop the Top'. No delays. Great content. Thank you. Greetings from Minnetrista, MN.
I’m fairly new to growing. I’ve only got about 4 grows from seed to harvest. I have never topped a plant. I have been thinking about doing it on this grow. But I have my reservations about doing so. In my last grows I grew in a 5x5 with 4 plants in 30 gallon non till all organic BAS products. Each plant I got no less than 8 oz per plant with a Veg time of 3 months and 10 to 14 weeks of flower time. This time tho I got me a bigger tent 10x10 and have 16 plants but only going to keep 12 of them this time around. I do want to try different methods and techniques along the way. I barely planted the seeds on 8/3 all but one seed popped and are doing excellent, I even had a twin. I watch build a soil and other channels to gain as much knowledge as possible in this adventure. Any advice if I should or shouldn’t would be great
Go hydro you pussy
I always top and have killer results, never though of ditching the practice but its very interesting to hear Ted suggested to nit tip and have bigger flower growth, for that Im giving this an experimental run. Top VS Untopped in the same space side by side, this way all plants get the same environment, light intensity and feedings.
I think I'll test this as well with some clones I'm about to take.
I normally don't top outdoors, just let it do its thing... be the easy trim you've ever done I bet. Let's em spread out and grow leaves where it needs it. I'd be willing to bet it's not a huge difference in weight either. When your holding a Pringles can sized nug there's a lot there lol
Let us know how bigger the yeild is on the topped plant compared to this dudes method
It's not interesting at all, it''s just bait for views
"the plants been around longer than us, it knows what to do" is a nonsensical statement, the cannabis plant hasnt ever "known" it needs to produce bigger yields for humans. also i doubt the statement that the cannabis plant has been around longer than humans is true in the first place, also, his issue about one side taking off and one side not, that issue is easily fixed with NATURAL plant hormones, such as auxins, gibberellins and cytokinins etc. using dehydrated raw young green coconut water powder and dried insect powder would instantly give equal growth! lol! using Triacontanol would give even growth across ALL side shoots anyway!! so this is a non-problem, being solved by someone who doesnt really know what theyre talking about! lol! "less A's and more b's and c's when you top" thats absolutely not true, even canopy, means even quality, so if you can produce "A's" in the first place, youll produce a consistent "A", with topping... honestly this guys full of it! and "it knows what to do" again??? like huh?? yes, the plant DOES know what to do, topping comes from the plant still thriving if it was snapped in nature! the plant KNOWS to move energy into side shoots if the main stem gets snapped, so that more main stems come from it and the plan has a chance to carry on growing instead of dying off! we MANIPULATE this and create more main stems which can result in even canopies and bigger plants with a more efficient use of space!! this guy is full of it, the smug little looks like he knows it all throughout the videos is cringeworthy too
I grow outdoors Hawaii and the faster I can flower them the better.Topping them takes too long for them to recover.As soon as they get 2-3 feet tall in veg I flower them.The longer theyre growing the more likely too get PM, and pest problems.
Very good interview!
Im serching for the gassiest regular strain in seeds. There is so many on the market. Do you have an idea?
I didn't top any last year, had 1 14 feet tall with 2 bird nest in it , another over 12 foot , was budding massively, we got a big rain and the weight of the buds literally tore the branches off
U need to add silica to Ur feeding or water n it will strengthen ur branches...I don't use a trellis..even my biggest bud won't break my plants n I have some 6 or 7 gram dried buds before
I know it's crazy but I grow cannabis to smoke... not to say 'look how big my flower is'. But to each their own
If a plant grows in a zero stress environment would it taste different then a stressful environment?
Yes, Planned stresses allow the plant to produce more terpenes, trichomes and cannabinoids as a defense mechanism.
He said he will not top again in flower. Does he top in veg?
"I don't THINK"? Completely wrong, but this is just standard stuff people who've been growing for 50 - 60 years hear daily by teenagers. Who knows more, "the Novice or the life long grower"? The longer you do something the more you know! First of all, some plants(the sativas) can get up to 20(+) feet high, 2nd, you do not want your plants to grow over your fence(6')! This is what I've done for over 55 years. From the moment plant hits "the 3 nodes" on the young plant, you top the main stem! Then after that, until the plant is weeks into flowering, every new stem you count 1, 2, 3(nodes) and TOP, then that topping sends out new branches and again, count, 1, 2, 3 nodes and top again! At the end, you have buds the size of your fist on most parts of the plant, except for the bottom part. Down there, the sun usually can't get to the LOW branches, which you can just remove by the 2nd month! Everything else is just a Myth!!!
So, this is an interesting subject. Firstly, topping plant will improve things 80% of the time. What I have noticed is that some cultivars do not respond well at all. One in particular that I found didn't like topping was Kali mist.
Just a quick question @3:15 he is talking about a 14 day veg. This does not include germination time right ? Rather my question would be what does a 14 day veg equal to if we take germination into account ?
I think people are forgetting that Mike is an indoor cultivator with thousands of plants. Yeah, if you have 6 plants outdoors, then topping is going to be beneficial for you. If you're working on a 63 day flower cycle with a 14 day veg indoors, speed is important and topping definitely slows growth. He also talks about how Uniformity is the reason he stopped topping, and when you are steering thousands of plants, consistency and uniformity is huge. "Those branches will get to the top"; would you rather have two really big branches, or eight big branches? For larger-scale, indoor cultivators, you would rather have eight big branches...
I harvested 40 inch clones in only 60 days by planting on july 20, no pesticide and no caterpillars in San Francisco bay, other years I had caterpillars at harvest time, somehow skipped catapillar season by planting later and far less effort to grow, urine and fish tea keeps the plants growing green.
I grow outdoors in the south bay at 2 different spots every year, some years we get hit by moths really bad, other years, not a moth to be seen, I don’t really have an explanation for this, have just assumed that due to environmental conditions in the bay area sone years we get a lot of moths and some years none?
I think I heard 14 day veg then flip so, I have to assume this is with established clones & not from seed ? I'm sure commercial growers go the clone route for strain stability. The reason I bring this up is because I have no room for mothers & clones and I like trying new stuff all the time. It's my understanding that if starting from seed the plant should be at least 4 weeks old to be mature enough to flower and if I don't top, tall plants end up in the lights. I might try vegging for two weeks & then flip to see if that takes out some of the stretching.
Experiment and see what works best for you. I have been popping seeds one or two at a time and putting them into flower over the last year or so. I am on plant number 14. I have flipped them in as little as 3 weeks all the way to around 9 weeks. I treated each one a little different till I figured out what works for me and my set up. I top 3 times then flip to flower after that. Works for me.
Plants used to grow in nature where there’s a lot of heavy winds that might break their tops..
I’ll just let you imagine the rest..
so topping is partially existing in nature..
we used to grow olive trees, oranges/citrus trees.. we always topped them and that’s a critical part of what old school did for centuries.
Was saying this years ago but dispos wanted smaller 1gram buds so i started topping to increase tops and bring nug size down so i didnt have to extra trimming time to break big colas down to smaller buds boils down to time and payroll
0:57 you will always have one shoot that becomes dominant and wants to take over for the piece you removed the apical tip is the hormone producer for the plant, consider it the hypothalamus, topping a plant is like shooting someone in the head, it's just that plants are a little more resilient than us!
Don’t you get more weight off not topping flipping early and have one big main cola? I’ve heard Barneys says so it also depends on comparing the 2 if you did the same veg and flower period plus same mediums and environment and space.
Not one of these podcasts ever differentiates between auto flower and photo periods , isn't that a significant factor besides weather it's an outdoor or indoor grow.
This how I feel about certain do’s and don’t from “professionals”
!!!DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!!!
Everyone is different. Topping may not work for you, especially in flower. Where as it may work for many others in Veg.
I appreciate the knowledge shared here. I assumed that Mike was talking about not topping in veg, but the last statement is "I don't think I will ever top again a plant in flower." Was the whole conversation about topping in flower?
I topped my skunk strain at the third knode I'm growing 5 large colas now strange thing is that one of the bottom colas is growing more dense that the top ones that are getting more sun at the top is that normal?
Top once and main line works for me..much denser crowns
I´ve only had few times that one side grew bigger after topping but I also bend my plants completely to flat in most cases.
I do have some strains I would never top or bend though they just grow and usually get pretty even.
I prefer to just bend the main stalk. Doesnt slow growth. Recoveres within an hour under real sunlight and keeps the nugs fat
Are you only vegging for 2 weeks?
Outdoor growers in high humidity areas usually find bud rot in one main cola in every third plant. Exceptionally large colas are a nightmare in this scenario. Don't top and you might lose 30% of an entire plants yield from rot. Top and you might only lose 4% from rot. Simple maths.
Honestly topping isnt bad BUT the timing of when you top is VERY important. But there is so much more info needed to make an educational decision. For example how long you veg for, do you top in veg or in flower, how "hard" you top (topping/FIMing) and strain/health of your plants.
I like to "FIM" my plants once and then just "bend" the other tops down to create a nice bushy plant over time.
There's many factors that go into a grow not just topping vs not topping. Light, grow media, environment, cultivars, etc many things affect the outcome of your plants growth. You just have to understand your grow and what works and what doesn't work as well to maximize the plants potential.
Wish I more thumbs for your insightful comment...
Yes those factors are important for a successful grow but you are leaving out one of the most crucial ones. One of the most important things is talking to your plants, that has been shown to add 12.2% extra growth especially if you say the right words with just the right tone.
He’s talking about commercial grows, where they have lots of headroom. Homegrowers are usually limited overhead and need training to get that even canopy. I go with at most 5 nodes, and that includes topping. I’ve never tried just LST on the meristem. It seems unmanageable to me.
veg 14 days and flower without topping, how does this compare to 14 days veg with topping in terms of yeild?
For photoperiod, wait until the new growth just starts to show (2-3cm), then pinch it off on a diagonal, leaving 1/3rd if that new growth on the side FURTHEST from the highest node. This will stunt the top growth, forcing growth hormones equally into the side branches on the lower node, but also has a chance for that main stem to recover and actually push out those 2 new branches and then keeping growing like normal.
This is how you FIM. With even lighting and some LST it will grow evenly.
I liked this as fim can be a good method in certain situations, although I find it really isn't necessary 🌱 just get your light down low enough that the plant knows growing it's main stem isn't a great idea anymore as it doesn't feel very nice up nearer the light & so it will pop that energy into the side branches instead 🌱& they'll go join the high up party 💡🌱 🎉🍹mine do that & I don't use magic seeds 👀
@@wardaldo69 hey you cant make the sun get any closer if you wanted too XD, no but seriously i got a headband and super lemon haze photoperiod that look like they really want to be Christmas trees, if they dont know whats good for them in the next week.. snip snip.
@@shawnndixon5254 ahhh yea but ideally you want to put her on a really tall hill 🌱👌👀🤣
I had a good one going and a week before I was about to take it somehow while I was at work my light that was hanging somehow fell from the ceiling fell just right and split the plant down the middle.
The only time you dont have to top is growing outdoors, since it changes the natural structure of the plant it cannot support its weight as well as the christmas tree shape. You want to top indoors so you can have an even canopy for most efficient use of your lights. Its not that complicated.
I don't top mine either I just bend the whole top way down and that makes everything grow uniform. Why cut off good growth when you can keep it and still have a level canopy
topping makes for more tops
U forgot to say "autoflower" 😅
Autoflower take longer than 14 days to veg. Do you even grow?
I top autos and yeild way more than others that leave it alone and dont train
@@bassinsierrayou may get great yields, but studies show that if you LST correct it will give the most yield on autoflowers! If you LST low enough it will be as effective as FIM and without the stress.
@@bassinsierrathat's a lie it's all based on genetics with autos, I got 7oz off a single auto without topping or any LST, most people are quick to bash autos because they're sensitive to grow but if you do it right and have the right genetics you will get a heavy yield without all the new age techniques
Pretty sure he wasn't talking about autos
I just take a twist tie when it's getting too tall for my system and bend the tip back to the stem. The main cola readjusts and while it's making a sideways s shape all of those other branches are acting like the plant was topped. Then I pull the tie off and have a fat even canopy with the main cola still growing.
Wouldnt taking the tie off somewhat launch the main stem back up?
@blubblub346 no by the time he takes it off the stem is strong and stiffer
I top because if I don't my plants end up 15 feet tall and completely unmanageable for one man. Outdoors for personal consumption is VASTLY different than indoors for commercial production. Quite honestly a completely different process and end product. I prefer sungrown in actual dirt.
14 day veg? Are you doing anything different to get more growth in that 14 days? No low stress training either?
He said he uses side lighting which would compete with a topped plant for yeild with less veg time... and more grow cycles
Are they growing from cuts or seeds?
On auto's, if I have a fast growing little one with 4 nodes. I carefully snip and always get two nice large tops. Yes the lower branches come up too if they have enough light.
You are correct. But, untopped Plants in the Outdoors can grow to 15+ft. easy in a good environment. Almost that Diameter, too. They are kind of an Eye Sore. A Temptress for Theft. There are Reasons to Trim and Tie Down. Depends on the situation. Big Plants have limb break problems when the weight comes on. Wind and Storms can devastate your work. Monster Plants may be what you want. But, they come with inherent weaknesses. As for the Quality? 6 months of growing season in the central US. It's finer Wine in My Opinion.
Weird you say that.. all of my guys at the shop are always trying to top my shit and usually I would say yeah, I’ve been wanting to see how my plants respond on their own. I’ve had some of my best runs to date on a strain I’ve grown over the last 6 years. Topped them once and just let them ride into the netting. Zero training involved. I just use a net for support and allow them to find their own spots. As long I don’t have tops overlapping I left them alone. Holy shit their tops went wild.
I wonder why he did not talk about mold at all.
For some growers, getting the humidity and temperature is hard. Smaller buds from topping the plant lowers molding risks.
It depends on your grow setup. In a real grow house your not worried about height. Pruning, pinching, topping are use to grow plants bushier rather than increase height
Im sure some level of trichomes are lost or put on hold to heal the growth aswell and spur more growth
I don't top but different method, I just bend the tops over and the sides catch up to top and bend down the next set and so on. Then let them all go and they will grow up almost equally and becomes a bush. It looks like you topped because of the amount of colas but they are all non topped and strong
I guess no-topping depends on the genetics too, no? Different genetics branch differently and no-topping and no-lst for some means really poor branching and smaller yields IMO
I was doing LST back in the early 1980s mostly bc i didn't like damaging the plant & believed i got better results laying it over at about 4 weeks or so.
Overview
In this video, Mike from @_thevillage and @symbioticgenetics explains why he stopped topping his plants. Influenced by Ted from Alien Labs, Mike found that not topping results in bigger nugs and more consistent canopy growth. He noticed that topped plants often grew inconsistently, leading to lopsided plants. By not topping, he achieved better light penetration and healthier plants. Mike maintains a low plant density and believes in letting plants fill the space naturally, finding this method more efficient in terms of labor and nutrients. He concludes that he will not top plants in flower again.
Timestamps
00:00 - 00:54
Mike discusses why he stopped topping his plants and the influence of Ted from Alien Labs.
00:00
Mike explains he no longer tops his plants and mentions Ted from Alien Labs who influenced this decision. Ted suggested that not topping results in bigger nugs.
00:19
Mike recounts his experience with topping, noting that it often resulted in inconsistent plant growth. He observed that sometimes one shoot would grow faster, causing a lopsided plant.
00:55 - 02:29
The benefits of not topping plants and the resulting plant structure.
00:55
Mike noticed a significant improvement in canopy consistency when he stopped topping. He emphasizes the importance of giving plants enough space.
01:13
Mike highlights the natural branching that occurs without topping and urges growers to trust the process. He points out that lower branches can reach the top if not crammed.
01:36
Many facilities, including Jungle Boys, have stopped topping. Mike believes not topping allows plants to grow naturally, resulting in better light penetration and overall plant health.
01:56
Mike contrasts the natural growth of untopped plants with the manipulated growth under nets. He finds that untopped plants perform better in terms of light penetration and yield quality.
02:30 - 03:45
Discussion on plant density and efficiency.
02:30
Mike explains that his plant density remains the same despite not topping, and he prefers a lower plant count. He grows on 5-foot wide tables with plants spaced three wide.
02:53
He highlights the labor and nutrient efficiency of not topping. Mike prefers to let plants fill the space naturally.
03:07
Although the plants may look sparse initially, they fill in the space well with a 14-day veg period. Mike finds this method very efficient and does not plan to top plants in flower again.
Thanks for this overview.
I top to release the auxins hormone to make sure that the side shoots become main shots if you don't top i don't care how much light reaches the lower branches they will not become main colas.
I almost never top. It’s better to selectively take fan leaves to expose other tops to the light.
No wonder every mimosa sample I’ve had is mid
😂😂😂😂
That wouldn't have anything to do with anything though.
If you get the real mimosa it's hands down one of the best strains I've had, smells amazing,great flavour, nice high
100% agree with him!! Nothing wrong with toping just more work and higher chance dead zone spots
I'm packaging Mimosa while watching this rn. Anyone ever do an bud sticking? It's a no topping method I've found, unorthodox but successful.
What about og kush? Top or no top?
FIM to the point of supercropping each plant. True OG's almost inevitably grow nug sized colas, regardless of having a singular top or several
@ I have 12 lights in flower and trellis set up, supper cropping could work, usually the trellis helps with larger set ups as it’s a little less work load then super cropping 108 plants lol . I might give it a shot though, thanks!
This guys only talking from his very own experience, he messed it up and thinks the rest of the world will aswel, topping is a Goated strat dont listen to a single work he said
Personally i do both methods of topping and scrog method..Ive learned you can get the same results if you weave them through a trellis net or tying them down
Growing my first plant. Not topping or training. I want a baseline and go from there.
Early bend down 2nd to 3rd week of main stem is a great compromise to topping
I top some outdoor plants just to get em more bushy but my indoor I don't do anything than defoliate and maybe some lst clips if I'm trying to steer a branch a certain way usually upwards to save lateral room
They get topped in nature too, a deer will top plants all the time.
@pyrotec4577 yA they topped mine all the way to the dirt last year 😂
@@saltybildo9448 that might be hard to recover from, but I've seen it happen 😅
🤣🤣 have put chicken wires or fence around this time?
True
Top between 4-6th node in vegetative stage and you're good. Some dislike it, but most truck through it. Topping should ofc be avoided, but some stretch so much it's necessary to top.
just train the main stem to grow horizontally and you get the same effect.
Mainlining is the best to make all colas with no side branches in a plant.. but yes, it makes slow growth after topping ,the more topping the longer to wait.. but the final result will be all fat colas from the main stem "plant with all top buds no side branching".
bigger nugs? No, the right thing to say is bigger nug. The point of topping is to have every branch to get equal light, which results in evenly sized buds, and an overall bigger yield. without topping you'd have one big nug, and the rest are just mids
Nug size doesn't affect quality
@@timothykappel198 it kinda does to some point, would you get a zip of larfy bud?
I definitely get it in the area of warehouse grows for max density but then again on a smaller level ive done well with toppings but makes sense what he is saying
Yeah, im not stopping.
Topped all 3 of my outdoor sativas above the 8th node. Now tey are all about 7 feet tall and 5-6 feet in diameter and just started flowering. Yeah I'll continue doing that.
I’ve been leaning towards this in a big way. Also the amount of veg I have to do with more plants not topped is so much less. I don’t think it’s best practice for low plant counts. That’s when I lean towards a supercrop to get canopy filled and even. Also never top a plant in flower no matter what.
I feel after watching hundreds of growers the main mistake is light burn and going to far with flower and foxtailing …if you only have the main cola slightly above the rest you got a better chance of saving the rest of the plant …instead or light burn or foxtailng happening across the whole canopy you’ll get a warning with tops …..the best buds on the plants ain’t t the top anyways it’s 10% down thr plant the
Going to top just because he said not to. 😂
😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Depending on strain ,some do better ,some dont.
Thats what I was going to say!
Lol we know.
No, every non auto should be topped if growing indoors
No sh!t
Have topped and not topped and topping for me always seems to be better but depends on each situation I suppose
Maybe in small spaces like a 2x4 tent topping might still be better if you're trying to get production per cubic foot.
Using a trellis and bending the plants in a 2x4x5 ft tall, I was able to get as high as 23 and 1/2 oz with 550 w of cobs.
And that's using four plants.
But vegging takes longer couple more weeks. I mean if you're going by back-to-back runs this couple of weeks for you to run. Put together is a whole nother run. Maybe it equals out. Who knows
But when you have height restrictions, that's when it becomes an issue for me.
I probably shouldn't try to grow a haze in a 5-ft tall tent, but I can make it work with topping and bending
"i stopped topping because i can't do it properly"