Hello, I'm an engineer with experience working on rotary engine devlopment, as well as some detailed knowledge specifically on the renesis. There are definitely a few reasons which are causing this hybrid to have low power. One of the main reasons I can see would be warping of the apex seals. The renesis apex seals do not have to pass over the peripheral port, so they have a much lower beam (bending) strength, which reduces their weight and allows them to reach higher rpm's and have less wear. By maxing these apex seals go over a peripheral port, they have a high chance of warping, which will drastically lower compression. Another reason for warpage of the apex seals could be due to bad lubrication around the peripheral exhaust ports, since the renesis focuses oil injection on the side ports. Some of this could be remedied by premixing (which i am unsure if you are). Another issue is the overlap. The renesis has no overlap (actually has -6 degrees of overlap), which means a much greater expansion ratio on the power stroke which leads to higher thermal efficiency. Another benefit of no overlap is greatly reduced EGR, which means more burnable air in the intake stroke. By adding the peripheral port, some of the exhaust gases will be able to sneak into the intake stroke which is bad for the amount of power. Additionally, the change in port timing and the affect it has on the exhaust manifold can have a slight effect on your power output. I have a decent model for the renesis in an engine simulator program, and could see if I can run some optimizations for exhaust header length based on the combination of peripheral and side exhaust ports if that is something you are interested in. Great work so far, and glad to see someone trying things out!
Hey Conner, if you could run that simulation and share the results I would also be very interested. I'm actually just about to put together a hybrid renesis as well. My main guesses here is 1. His exhaust header is way to pressurized, either from the same rotor or the other rotor, choking the engine. or 2. The apex seals are bending like you mentioned. I'm machining the rx8 rotors to run rx7 apex seals for this engine so #2 isn't a worry for me. But maybe splitting the middle port and running a true dual exhaust would help? Keeping in mind when building the header he did reduce it from 3" to 2.5" right after the collection. Or another idea is running a 3 pipe exhaust, with the middle iron having it's own full run.
@@MrCool00236 yes, maybe his exhaust isn't great but, I can't see everyone getting anything more than maybe +30hp from better exhaust. if hybrid can't make 200whp it isn't worth doing
@@connervinyard6476 road speed sensor plugged in, car ecu has a safety feature to limit power in accident when hitting a pole to cut power to kill engine. Speed sensor needs to be unplugged to do this. If any seals failed it would smoke like a bitch from oil.from the circular oil containment seal pressure leaking into a open vented space past the side seals.
@@hairconditioner976 we saw 60hp from a header on our bridge port motor. Best so far has been a very long header but I think his biggest issue is runner diameter in that header.. there's no velocity in there needs way smaller primaries
We need a baseline on the exact same engine to compare. Like many others have suggested can you block off the side exhaust port or the Peripheral exhaust ports to compare. Maybe get a couple of intermediate sandwich plates profile cut to fit between the "block" and exhaust flange to test run 3 x side ports vs. 2 x PP vs all 5 exhaust ports open.
Low (static) compression certainly doesn't help power production, but it doesn't always tell the whole story. Engines can have lower static comp but as long as dynamic compression is ok they will still run decent. Looking at that dyno graph is quite clear the engine is really struggling at high rpm. Low exhaust velocity from the 5 ports combined with ver1.0 of that header design are likely coming into play here. Thanks for all the work so far and actually posting updates!
My friend got a hybrid but the thing is hybrids dont like bridge port they are to much intake for the engine if you dont have the gas supplie try to upgrade ur fuel system injectors fuel pump a custom ecu would also be the move i think because you can make a full custom map lastly unplug your speed sensor when you tune it because the rx8 ecu dont like when the rear wheels are moving but the fronts dont the ecu cuts the power
Seems to me the VDI and AUX ports have lost their timing performance (supercharger effect) of the factory lower manifold because of the PP exhaust. Remember that those two values are TUNED for a zero overlap setup so they can bounce the pressure way back and forward. The VDI bounces the intake charge from the front rotor to the back and vise versa. The GSL-SE PP exhaust ports open and close VERY LATE causing too much overlap so my guess its really affecting that factory lower intake. Try disabling the VDI on your next run.
woah, well that's certainly unexpected, that sucks. I have two theories here; 1. There is just too much overlap between the rx8 and 7 ports causing some nice EGR, maybe itd be better for passing emissions? lol. 2. Its blowing exhaust back into the rx7 or rx8 ports causing your intake air to have to mix with some already toasty burnt air. but hey at least the idle sounds sick. Id like to see a compression test too to see if it lost all compression due to the seals warping
@@Johnny_OSG He's talking about the flow from the 8 ports into the 7 ports, ie recirculating into the engine and back out of the 8 ports. That was my worry as well
@@Johnny_OSG EGR as in the overlap between intake and exhaust ports literally causing the exhaust gas to throw itself back into the intake side, recirculating exhaust gas.
@mx3fto I don't think that is possible since the exhaust chamber is getting smaller. @sirhamsteralot3977 Yeah but that's not increased from unmodified renesis, since the last exhaust port closure event (so the rx8 one) has the exact same timing. BUT now that i think of it, since the exhaust area is a lot larger, the velocity will be smaller, pressure waves weaker, so maybe there is more residual pressure after the exhaust stroke staying inside the engine and therefore poor performance
Please show us a dyno run using a regular 13B header, with the header plate blocking off the side exhaust ports! This would be a very interesting comparison also. Also, what is the current compression reading on the engine? Although the tiny Renesis apex seals would be prone to warping when running over a peripheral exhaust port, I wouldn’t have thought this would happen in the short amount of run time you’ve had.
Hi Rad Potential, thought i would share this info, I currently own an RX8 Renesis hybrid vehicle, drive it daily as well as another stock RX8 renisis engine as normal, the hybrid configuration is RX7 GSLSE Housings, bridge ported secondaries only (buy the way this makes the SSV Valve go crazy- can't seem to stop or solve this inadvertent effect) modified RX8 rotors 3mm apex seals, note: as this is well posted by many.. to increase the apex seal beam strength as opposed to staying the weaker 2mm rx8 apex seal not recommended in hybrid configuration, balanced rotating assembly, adaptronic interceptor ECU, exhaust configured to only run exhaust peripheral ports currently, MSP exhaust ports not permanently blocked just closed off due to the configuration of the exhaust header flange, AEM cold air intake upgraded LS coils still running OEM OMP 2 X Injectors only, RON 98 fuel. Now NO i have not had the vehicles dyno-tuned but in comparison to slighly modified stock RX8 renisis engine the hybrid to me seems to perform exceptionally well down low (more responsive or more pokey, definite improvement over stock Renesis) to around 5.6 to 6K RPM, about the time the aux ports open and from there i think the stock RX8 then performs marginally better this is all by the seat of my pants feel, not scientificly proven. Food for thought... p.s. just to add the stock RX8 is running a mild tune up with versatune, cold air AEM intake, aftermarket headers, air injection delete and all CEL codes blocked.
You definitely know how to suprise me. The silver lining? More hybrid videos😁. Thank you for your videos. I hope to learn a lot. And maybe one day ill have a mazda of my own
Use rx7 apex seals and block of the side exhuast ports, the side exhaust ports cause drops in power when accompanied with the perpheral exhaust ports. either stick with the side ports or block the side exhaust ports. But keep at it man, excited to see where you go with this.
Not a great a moment for a told yah so but i did give my advice..ive tried all different varieties of Porting..4 port ,5 port exhaust..they all go backwards.. again it just reduces rhe power stroke..too much exhaust, i can't push the rotor around..has to be one or the other..msp or peripheral exhaust.. We just did one.. blocking the Renesis exhausts with just the exhaust flange will see you get 210whp... fact..
lol damn I was thinking it was gonna blow my mind In the other direction. I’m half way through my REW swap, man I’m really looking forward to the finished project.
Curious to know what the compression is. I worked at an rx-7 shop and every build got compression tested on the engine stand before putting it in the car (had a spare bell housing and starter motor) that saved us from some head aches. Keep up the good work!
I'm only 5 minutes into the video, but I'm wondering if you have datalogs showing the Mass Airflow sensor readings, for another datapoint to compare if the hybrid engine is breathing differently than the original one.
If you're not already planning this, I'd like to see this same engine with some or all of the RX8 side exhaust ports blocked off so you can run a proven 13B header design. And if 13B early-open exhaust ports still make less power than late-open Renesis ports, I also wonder if some sort of exhaust sleeves to delay the exhaust port opening timing would improve power on older 13B engines.
I think that siamese exhaust port needs a flow divider, and that the gslse exhaust ports are too big. Exhaust velocity too low for NA or something. Could be okay under FI though.
I'm really curious what the intake air volume is looking like on this vs a healthy renesis or even s4/5/6 13B. This number would tell us a lot about what might be going on.
Im kinda surprised by the results, I seen other hybrids make around 220hp NA (idk how true this actually is) but 100hp seems way to low for a good compression renny even if the glse housing it would negatively impact it.... are the secondary intake ports even opening?
I have a pnp adaptronic emod013. Bought from overseas and when i used it i couldnt get the dbw to activate. Tps reads but wont drive the tb. I figure could be changed back to cable throttle. Let me know if it may be of use to you. It should have produced more hp than that though, unless stock ecu is holding it back. Sick brap tho
cut the rotors for RX7 apex seals then through boost at it. Dont use RX7 rotors as people are suggesting, it will still work but the rx8 rotors and side seals are set up for the side ports. Also people have used the stock ecu for boost plenty of times as well so it shouldn't be a problem just need to make a turbo manifold and cut the rotors and you should be good to go.
I’m thinking the lack of gains is you’re pretty much running into a wall with it being too much exhaust with the same stock amount of intake. Maybe either reducing runner diameter to make some back pressure or finding a way to pull more air in (i.e. boost) to see if you can then mitigate the issue. Also curious what EGTs would be per runner compared to a stock RX8 manifold or common aftermarket header like racing beat.
Close factory side ports for exhaust completely. Im sure that can be done. Then relap and run just the pp exhaust ports. Dont think anybody has ever tried it. Possibility could be an apex seal issue depending on how much you thrashed it on way to dyno 😂. You will get it
simple reason like I said before, zero exhaust scavenging. remove that crappy header. Put a good header on the p-port exhaust housings and block off the three renesis ports and thank me later.
You may know this already. The only way to take advantage of all that exhaust free flow might be nitrous. Your scavenging seems to be non existent. Smaller pipes may fix it? Block some ports? Also, I didn't see your build video yet. But the 6 port engines suffer hard intake reversion below 3000 rpm if you have non-working/disabled/locked 6 port valves. You could be blowing air fuel charge back up the plenum making it tricky to iron out your tune. The 5-6 port are timed into the compression stroke and need inertial energy to generate an above atmospheric pressure wave. I've seen this playing with older 6 port Racing Beat Holley 4bbl setups back in the day. You could see a fuel cloud dancing above the carb until I integrated a plenum.
Def something dodgy about the dyno ... this result is nearly 100whp down on the hybrids I've tuned which btw also make less power than the stock blocks I've tuned. Good on you for posting your results though ..... this is needed to stop people making the same mistakes over and over and over again!
If the ECU sees the front wheels are stationary it will not open the throttle will not open all the way and greatly reduce the power. You can bypass this by unplugging the front ABS sensors.
Back again, Because the adaptronic ECU supports boost/turbo charging I plan to go there soon , thoughts are run peripheral ports only to the turbo and collect the turbo exhaust output with the MSP exhaust ports much further don the header assembly and where do I exactly position the exhaust bypass valve ... hmmmm... thinking on that one?, obviously between the peripheral ports and the turbo input to exhaust turbine and well where do i reintroduce it into the exhaust header? or not at all and just go external dump pipe... I"m keen to see your header experiment results although your NA but still this could be valuable info to my decision making and also as you have well pointed out NO ONE is really sharing there experience/results to any high detail, your RUclips posts have been the most informative against anyone else I've seen, only Kyle Mohan Racing KMR has sort of gone there, P.S. to also mention as would be expected the peripheral port only hybrid manifold/ header... definitely old school true Rotary sound with my configuration. ( fujitsubo single rear pipe outlet cat back system, rm01a )
I think it would be worth trying running all the Renesis side and Siamese exhaust ports right into a large waste gate, then running the rx7 peripheral exhaust ports into the turbo. I know something similar was done several years ago with running the Siamese exhaust port to the watergate, and it didn’t work at all. I’m curious if my idea could work, though.
Poorly until more work is done. You'd need FD rotors to get the compression low enough that the turbo won't screw everything over. RX8s can only handle minimal boost.
no, part of the issue is that with the bridgeport and added exust port housings, coupled with the much earlier opening of the Remesis intake ports is that the compression is already lost back-flowing out the exhaust port rather than being compressed from the intake cycle. .
I’m assuming it has a peripheral port on the intake too, otherwise wouldn’t all that extra capacity to flow more out the exhaust be pointless if you can’t even jam enough air in there in the first place
Only research available shows that it can work but only in boosted scenarios. The exhaust also can't create pulses if it's not a true dual exhaust dividing the middle irons.
I think I was dead on those primaries are huge for the power and your loosing velocity in the header. It needs to be smallest you can go for the power and taper tube does pick up power on our older rx7 motors. The other big problem is the intake is all wrong for this it works well for the renisis but this has overlap
I just pulled apart a 192 engine that will be the 5th emgine to receive my surface ignition mod, which also eliminates inter-chamber compression loss. I still want to send some housings your way to try out but it wouldn't be for the hybrid unless i can get some gslse housings...
@@sirhamsteralot3977 literally that. The spark arcs less than 1mm from the housing surface. I modify the ignition side of the rotor housings such that the spark plug holes are reduced from 12mm and 5mm at the surface, leading and trailing respectively; to 1.6mm on both, with a 0.6mm central iridium electrode sitting 0.5mm below the surface. This means the spark is literally on the housing surface, and there is effectively no pressure leakage between chambers via spark plug holes as with the factory design.
just curious how good/bad would be to weld off Rx8 side ports and how hard it would be... Rx has highest compression ratio (as gas as i know) so that would help and just with exhaust pp ports it should still have better flow than original RX8 and from dyno test looks like probably better than hybrid :D also like your videos looking forward for more! thanks for all hard work!
I believe the intake is the problem, at worst remove the tumblers, you need to get the air in, to get it out?? Otherwise good video, I like the content.
Very. Disappointing, I feel your pain. That brings me to think of a time many years ago, when I was first learning about rotaries back in the early 80s and I said to my teacher ,when we were talking about the porting, I said, oh why don't they just bring the port out on the side like the intake. Which is what thay now do with the rennes, my teacher's response with those guys at mazda, They're very, very clever they are the only ones ever to get this engine working properly thay would have all ready thought of that !maybe that's what the secret testing was before. The RX8 came out, just a thought. PS I'm really thought it would have made half as much a game in horsepower
Its a waste of time. Ive personally done it. All these people saying the apex seals are bowing. Is incorrect we run rx8 rotors with the small apex seals. Dont forget the 3 peice seals that were used in fc turbo 2. The best bank for buck is some small bridge ports and run oem housings. If you go down the path of blocking up the side ports you still need to control the carbon. Sorry to be negative but just trying to help. Mine made 186hp at the wheels
Hello. I’m just seeing the video and it looks like you have issue with compression and those numbers at the dino are showing there is an issue. I have a hybrid with all five ports running and at the dino it’s over 200. I don’t have a Dino sheep, but I got videos of the car and the idol. It’s a lot better. So take a look at the inside maybe the side seals are not correct. My car has 100 in compression in each rotor. Stock ECU and tune with Mazda edit.
at this point, just get an rx7 engine with rx8 rotors. And even they don't really do anything, I don't know why, in theory they have higher compression and are lighter, but for some reason, nobody ever got better results with them, probably because the seals aren't made for the rx7 ports
@@flip240 Not at all, been in the RX8 game for almost a decade and seen countless engine builds and none of them have been worth a shit. $5k and countless hours for this garbage when this has been done over and over. At this point either stick with a stock renny or do an engine swap. I like what RAD has done and liked the journey but we all knew this was going to be the outcome. Love the braps though.
If I was doing a build now I'd WPC treat the housings where the apex seals ride against. Heck, I'd do everything. Reduce the friction, improve the wear resistance.
@@flip24040th Anniversary manual owner. Looking at its 3rd engine build. To say that spending more than the car is worth AGAIN ... is worth the "investment" is a joke. Money, time & result .. may as well part out the car. Super clean, and near pristine is a sad statement to part it. However. If stashing the car for a later date .. The Roadster Shop LS swap kit is more intriguing than another Renesis build. Thinking you may have never owned a dying RX8. Its beyond crushing. These engines are WAY TOO OVERPRICED for the short lifespan that they live. My wallet cries on.
Rx8 do not dyno without the road speed sensor system fuse being pulled. The car goes into limp mode Ps your budy can NOT tune a RX8 map. Its a locked CanBus system. He is fooling you. The RX8 CanBus is an active autoadaptive program that adjusts the fueling map and oil injector paramaters according to environmental conditions based on 2 sensors in the engine bay area and 2 lambda sensors It wil map itself while you drive! I rebuilt lots of rx8 engines in my time. The hybrid swap works, its been done. You did something wrong
So a guy gets selling u , and U bought it. Your not alone . in baseball u go back to basics. So maybe ( go back ) see what this guy was selling . references. He sold u the exhaust manifold ( flange ). How do you stay in business ? Saying stuff works and then ? WTF ? Especially that guy , !. . like ur videos. I would think he would want to sell more exhaust flanges . 81, 90 rx7 owner , not a poser ...
Hello, I'm an engineer with experience working on rotary engine devlopment, as well as some detailed knowledge specifically on the renesis. There are definitely a few reasons which are causing this hybrid to have low power. One of the main reasons I can see would be warping of the apex seals. The renesis apex seals do not have to pass over the peripheral port, so they have a much lower beam (bending) strength, which reduces their weight and allows them to reach higher rpm's and have less wear. By maxing these apex seals go over a peripheral port, they have a high chance of warping, which will drastically lower compression. Another reason for warpage of the apex seals could be due to bad lubrication around the peripheral exhaust ports, since the renesis focuses oil injection on the side ports. Some of this could be remedied by premixing (which i am unsure if you are).
Another issue is the overlap. The renesis has no overlap (actually has -6 degrees of overlap), which means a much greater expansion ratio on the power stroke which leads to higher thermal efficiency. Another benefit of no overlap is greatly reduced EGR, which means more burnable air in the intake stroke. By adding the peripheral port, some of the exhaust gases will be able to sneak into the intake stroke which is bad for the amount of power.
Additionally, the change in port timing and the affect it has on the exhaust manifold can have a slight effect on your power output. I have a decent model for the renesis in an engine simulator program, and could see if I can run some optimizations for exhaust header length based on the combination of peripheral and side exhaust ports if that is something you are interested in.
Great work so far, and glad to see someone trying things out!
Hey Conner, if you could run that simulation and share the results I would also be very interested. I'm actually just about to put together a hybrid renesis as well. My main guesses here is 1. His exhaust header is way to pressurized, either from the same rotor or the other rotor, choking the engine. or 2. The apex seals are bending like you mentioned.
I'm machining the rx8 rotors to run rx7 apex seals for this engine so #2 isn't a worry for me. But maybe splitting the middle port and running a true dual exhaust would help? Keeping in mind when building the header he did reduce it from 3" to 2.5" right after the collection. Or another idea is running a 3 pipe exhaust, with the middle iron having it's own full run.
@@MrCool00236 yes, maybe his exhaust isn't great but, I can't see everyone getting anything more than maybe +30hp from better exhaust. if hybrid can't make 200whp it isn't worth doing
A lot of us would be very interested to see results from your simulation if you don't mind doing it!
@@connervinyard6476 road speed sensor plugged in, car ecu has a safety feature to limit power in accident when hitting a pole to cut power to kill engine.
Speed sensor needs to be unplugged to do this.
If any seals failed it would smoke like a bitch from oil.from the circular oil containment seal pressure leaking into a open vented space past the side seals.
@@hairconditioner976 we saw 60hp from a header on our bridge port motor. Best so far has been a very long header but I think his biggest issue is runner diameter in that header.. there's no velocity in there needs way smaller primaries
We need a baseline on the exact same engine to compare. Like many others have suggested can you block off the side exhaust port or the Peripheral exhaust ports to compare. Maybe get a couple of intermediate sandwich plates profile cut to fit between the "block" and exhaust flange to test run 3 x side ports vs. 2 x PP vs all 5 exhaust ports open.
Hybrid turbo rx8 would be nuts!
@@jpgamz1052 Kyle Mohan Style 🔥
Needs to be done
Well, if can't impress N/A, it won't do any better turbo...
but boring
@BeaverLakeMotorsports that's not how it works bud
Low (static) compression certainly doesn't help power production, but it doesn't always tell the whole story. Engines can have lower static comp but as long as dynamic compression is ok they will still run decent.
Looking at that dyno graph is quite clear the engine is really struggling at high rpm. Low exhaust velocity from the 5 ports combined with ver1.0 of that header design are likely coming into play here.
Thanks for all the work so far and actually posting updates!
My friend got a hybrid but the thing is hybrids dont like bridge port they are to much intake for the engine if you dont have the gas supplie try to upgrade ur fuel system injectors fuel pump a custom ecu would also be the move i think because you can make a full custom map lastly unplug your speed sensor when you tune it because the rx8 ecu dont like when the rear wheels are moving but the fronts dont the ecu cuts the power
Even for cars that weren't equipped with traction/stability control? I thought that was only an issue for the traction control part of it
@@Ayane13b they have traction control
Seems to me the VDI and AUX ports have lost their timing performance (supercharger effect) of the factory lower manifold because of the PP exhaust. Remember that those two values are TUNED for a zero overlap setup so they can bounce the pressure way back and forward. The VDI bounces the intake charge from the front rotor to the back and vise versa. The GSL-SE PP exhaust ports open and close VERY LATE causing too much overlap so my guess its really affecting that factory lower intake. Try disabling the VDI on your next run.
woah, well that's certainly unexpected, that sucks. I have two theories here;
1. There is just too much overlap between the rx8 and 7 ports causing some nice EGR, maybe itd be better for passing emissions? lol.
2. Its blowing exhaust back into the rx7 or rx8 ports causing your intake air to have to mix with some already toasty burnt air.
but hey at least the idle sounds sick. Id like to see a compression test too to see if it lost all compression due to the seals warping
There's no egr on this car
@@Johnny_OSG He's talking about the flow from the 8 ports into the 7 ports, ie recirculating into the engine and back out of the 8 ports. That was my worry as well
@@Johnny_OSG EGR as in the overlap between intake and exhaust ports literally causing the exhaust gas to throw itself back into the intake side, recirculating exhaust gas.
@mx3fto I don't think that is possible since the exhaust chamber is getting smaller.
@sirhamsteralot3977 Yeah but that's not increased from unmodified renesis, since the last exhaust port closure event (so the rx8 one) has the exact same timing.
BUT now that i think of it, since the exhaust area is a lot larger, the velocity will be smaller, pressure waves weaker, so maybe there is more residual pressure after the exhaust stroke staying inside the engine and therefore poor performance
Please show us a dyno run using a regular 13B header, with the header plate blocking off the side exhaust ports! This would be a very interesting comparison also.
Also, what is the current compression reading on the engine? Although the tiny Renesis apex seals would be prone to warping when running over a peripheral exhaust port, I wouldn’t have thought this would happen in the short amount of run time you’ve had.
This was how my hybrid was. PP exhaust only, no Renesis side exhaust ports. Made far more than this (but I can't find the dyno sheet now)
Hi Rad Potential, thought i would share this info, I currently own an RX8 Renesis hybrid vehicle, drive it daily as well as another stock RX8 renisis engine as normal, the hybrid configuration is RX7 GSLSE Housings, bridge ported secondaries only (buy the way this makes the SSV Valve go crazy- can't seem to stop or solve this inadvertent effect) modified RX8 rotors 3mm apex seals, note: as this is well posted by many.. to increase the apex seal beam strength as opposed to staying the weaker 2mm rx8 apex seal not recommended in hybrid configuration, balanced rotating assembly, adaptronic interceptor ECU, exhaust configured to only run exhaust peripheral ports currently, MSP exhaust ports not permanently blocked just closed off due to the configuration of the exhaust header flange, AEM cold air intake upgraded LS coils still running OEM OMP 2 X Injectors only, RON 98 fuel. Now NO i have not had the vehicles dyno-tuned but in comparison to slighly modified stock RX8 renisis engine the hybrid to me seems to perform exceptionally well down low (more responsive or more pokey, definite improvement over stock Renesis) to around 5.6 to 6K RPM, about the time the aux ports open and from there i think the stock RX8 then performs marginally better this is all by the seat of my pants feel, not scientificly proven. Food for thought... p.s. just to add the stock RX8 is running a mild tune up with versatune, cold air AEM intake, aftermarket headers, air injection delete and all CEL codes blocked.
My friend in Aus did this did everything possible max hp 186hp with a motec!! Goodluck
Im that guy 😂
But would it be more reliable/longer lived than a standard renesis?
You definitely know how to suprise me. The silver lining? More hybrid videos😁. Thank you for your videos. I hope to learn a lot. And maybe one day ill have a mazda of my own
Use rx7 apex seals and block of the side exhuast ports, the side exhaust ports cause drops in power when accompanied with the perpheral exhaust ports. either stick with the side ports or block the side exhaust ports. But keep at it man, excited to see where you go with this.
Not a great a moment for a told yah so but i did give my advice..ive tried all different varieties of Porting..4 port ,5 port exhaust..they all go backwards.. again it just reduces rhe power stroke..too much exhaust, i can't push the rotor around..has to be one or the other..msp or peripheral exhaust..
We just did one.. blocking the Renesis exhausts with just the exhaust flange will see you get 210whp... fact..
lol damn I was thinking it was gonna blow my mind In the other direction.
I’m half way through my REW swap, man I’m really looking forward to the finished project.
that's disappointing. glad i didn't go down this rabbit hole with my rx8 race car. i just did large street ports and e85 and made 220 whp.
Don't give up; just ask the "Wrong Brothers" why!
Haha. You discovered what everyone already knows. well done.
Kind of glad I didn't try to build 1 of these as my first rotary build. Back to the drawing board.
Curious to know what the compression is. I worked at an rx-7 shop and every build got compression tested on the engine stand before putting it in the car (had a spare bell housing and starter motor) that saved us from some head aches. Keep up the good work!
Something is not working. You make sure all the intake valves were opening
Just compression tested it. Made 90 psi. Everything engine side was working fine. We didn't have any power reducing CEL.
I'm only 5 minutes into the video, but I'm wondering if you have datalogs showing the Mass Airflow sensor readings, for another datapoint to compare if the hybrid engine is breathing differently than the original one.
If you're not already planning this, I'd like to see this same engine with some or all of the RX8 side exhaust ports blocked off so you can run a proven 13B header design. And if 13B early-open exhaust ports still make less power than late-open Renesis ports, I also wonder if some sort of exhaust sleeves to delay the exhaust port opening timing would improve power on older 13B engines.
What if you used rx7 rotors? Or cut the rx8 rotors for larger seals?
If you do that you reduse the interia of rxi rotor with small apex seals
If I remember he wanted to try using stock apex seals from rx8 just to what happens
man I can't wait for this to be turbo and on a standalone, she gon be spicy
if its running shitty now, adding a turbo isn't going to do anything but make it worse. Spicy..... lol
I think that siamese exhaust port needs a flow divider, and that the gslse exhaust ports are too big. Exhaust velocity too low for NA or something. Could be okay under FI though.
I'm really curious what the intake air volume is looking like on this vs a healthy renesis or even s4/5/6 13B. This number would tell us a lot about what might be going on.
Whole lotta science going on here in the comments. Thanks. I’m learning a lot. 🙏
Might be why people suggested getting FD housings and having them machined to accept the coolant seals, or whatever is needed for those.
Congrats man!
Im kinda surprised by the results, I seen other hybrids make around 220hp NA (idk how true this actually is) but 100hp seems way to low for a good compression renny even if the glse housing it would negatively impact it.... are the secondary intake ports even opening?
time for a locked dizzy and 51ida
A compression test should tell you if the apex seals are warped.
My apex seals are rounded and slightly bulging, where they make contact with the housing. 😂
You ruined the video with this comment for me too comment😢😢
@@codyfellows885 I'm going to glory in that because I'm usually that other guy who is too late to be original!!!!!!
I have a pnp adaptronic emod013. Bought from overseas and when i used it i couldnt get the dbw to activate. Tps reads but wont drive the tb. I figure could be changed back to cable throttle. Let me know if it may be of use to you. It should have produced more hp than that though, unless stock ecu is holding it back. Sick brap tho
Needs a big Turbo and NOS to really take advantage of the extra exhaust ports IMO
cut the rotors for RX7 apex seals then through boost at it. Dont use RX7 rotors as people are suggesting, it will still work but the rx8 rotors and side seals are set up for the side ports. Also people have used the stock ecu for boost plenty of times as well so it shouldn't be a problem just need to make a turbo manifold and cut the rotors and you should be good to go.
Exactly 😊 don't have 2 do much research 2 find out rx8 apex seals don't handle running over old perifipl port housings
Thanks for the vid.
BOOOOOOST!!!
I’m thinking the lack of gains is you’re pretty much running into a wall with it being too much exhaust with the same stock amount of intake. Maybe either reducing runner diameter to make some back pressure or finding a way to pull more air in (i.e. boost) to see if you can then mitigate the issue. Also curious what EGTs would be per runner compared to a stock RX8 manifold or common aftermarket header like racing beat.
Close factory side ports for exhaust completely. Im sure that can be done. Then relap and run just the pp exhaust ports. Dont think anybody has ever tried it. Possibility could be an apex seal issue depending on how much you thrashed it on way to dyno 😂. You will get it
simple reason like I said before, zero exhaust scavenging. remove that crappy header. Put a good header on the p-port exhaust housings and block off the three renesis ports and thank me later.
You may know this already.
The only way to take advantage of all that exhaust free flow might be nitrous. Your scavenging seems to be non existent. Smaller pipes may fix it? Block some ports?
Also, I didn't see your build video yet. But the 6 port engines suffer hard intake reversion below 3000 rpm if you have non-working/disabled/locked 6 port valves. You could be blowing air fuel charge back up the plenum making it tricky to iron out your tune. The 5-6 port are timed into the compression stroke and need inertial energy to generate an above atmospheric pressure wave.
I've seen this playing with older 6 port Racing Beat Holley 4bbl setups back in the day. You could see a fuel cloud dancing above the carb until I integrated a plenum.
Def something dodgy about the dyno ... this result is nearly 100whp down on the hybrids I've tuned which btw also make less power than the stock blocks I've tuned. Good on you for posting your results though ..... this is needed to stop people making the same mistakes over and over and over again!
If the ECU sees the front wheels are stationary it will not open the throttle will not open all the way and greatly reduce the power. You can bypass this by unplugging the front ABS sensors.
Back again, Because the adaptronic ECU supports boost/turbo charging I plan to go there soon , thoughts are run peripheral ports only to the turbo and collect the turbo exhaust output with the MSP exhaust ports much further don the header assembly and where do I exactly position the exhaust bypass valve
... hmmmm... thinking on that one?, obviously between the peripheral ports and the turbo input to exhaust turbine and well where do i reintroduce it into the exhaust header? or not at all and just go external dump pipe... I"m keen to see your header experiment results although your NA but still this could be valuable info to my decision making and also as you have well pointed out NO ONE is really sharing there experience/results to any high detail, your RUclips posts have been the most informative against anyone else I've seen, only Kyle Mohan Racing KMR has sort of gone there, P.S. to also mention as would be expected the peripheral port only hybrid manifold/ header... definitely old school true Rotary sound with my configuration. ( fujitsubo single rear pipe outlet cat back system, rm01a )
I think it would be worth trying running all the Renesis side and Siamese exhaust ports right into a large waste gate, then running the rx7 peripheral exhaust ports into the turbo. I know something similar was done several years ago with running the Siamese exhaust port to the watergate, and it didn’t work at all. I’m curious if my idea could work, though.
Wow thats crazy, I wonder how it would respond to boost?
Poorly until more work is done.
You'd need FD rotors to get the compression low enough that the turbo won't screw everything over. RX8s can only handle minimal boost.
no, part of the issue is that with the bridgeport and added exust port housings, coupled with the much earlier opening of the Remesis intake ports is that the compression is already lost back-flowing out the exhaust port rather than being compressed from the intake cycle.
.
You put a mix in or just pure gas ?
I think boosting it is the answer mate, and rx7 apex seals
I’m assuming it has a peripheral port on the intake too, otherwise wouldn’t all that extra capacity to flow more out the exhaust be pointless if you can’t even jam enough air in there in the first place
How much to the wheels did it make?
Also check back pressure of the exhaust
The REW vs genesis NA, the renesis wins. You have to boost it to take advantage of that exhaust flow.
Only research available shows that it can work but only in boosted scenarios. The exhaust also can't create pulses if it's not a true dual exhaust dividing the middle irons.
stereo audio next time please, dope ass rx8!!!
I believe the exhaust is flowing too much for the amount of air being put in. This being said, with boost it should wake up.
I think I was dead on those primaries are huge for the power and your loosing velocity in the header. It needs to be smallest you can go for the power and taper tube does pick up power on our older rx7 motors. The other big problem is the intake is all wrong for this it works well for the renisis but this has overlap
I just pulled apart a 192 engine that will be the 5th emgine to receive my surface ignition mod, which also eliminates inter-chamber compression loss.
I still want to send some housings your way to try out but it wouldn't be for the hybrid unless i can get some gslse housings...
can you explain more? what do you mean by surface ignition?
@@sirhamsteralot3977 literally that.
The spark arcs less than 1mm from the housing surface.
I modify the ignition side of the rotor housings such that the spark plug holes are reduced from 12mm and 5mm at the surface, leading and trailing respectively; to 1.6mm on both, with a 0.6mm central iridium electrode sitting 0.5mm below the surface.
This means the spark is literally on the housing surface, and there is effectively no pressure leakage between chambers via spark plug holes as with the factory design.
just curious how good/bad would be to weld off Rx8 side ports and how hard it would be... Rx has highest compression ratio (as gas as i know) so that would help and just with exhaust pp ports it should still have better flow than original RX8 and from dyno test looks like probably better than hybrid :D also like your videos looking forward for more! thanks for all hard work!
Beast mode
I believe the intake is the problem, at worst remove the tumblers, you need to get the air in, to get it out??
Otherwise good video, I like the content.
Turbo manifold send it!
Plug up one of the tail pipes to see if its just breathing to much air
Very.
Disappointing, I feel your pain.
That brings me to think of a time many years ago, when I was first learning about rotaries back in the early 80s and I said to my teacher ,when we were talking about the porting, I said, oh why don't they just bring the port out on the side like the intake. Which is what thay now do with the rennes, my teacher's response with those guys at mazda, They're very, very clever they are the only ones ever to get this engine working properly thay would have all ready thought of that !maybe that's what the secret testing was before. The RX8 came out, just a thought.
PS I'm really thought it would have made half as much a game in horsepower
I think before moving on, you should go stand alone and get real time data, and do real time adjustments
but either way it was surprising.
Do something really silly, live a supercharger.
Go get a second dyno to compare. Seems off that it makes about the same as before hybrid. Maybe find out why compression is so low.
So time to put rx7 apex seals in and turbo it i bet itll make good power then since thats the whole point of pport exhaust with side ports
More testing please.
run a semi pp on the housing aswell
It needs boost now to work properly
Its a waste of time. Ive personally done it. All these people saying the apex seals are bowing. Is incorrect we run rx8 rotors with the small apex seals. Dont forget the 3 peice seals that were used in fc turbo 2. The best bank for buck is some small bridge ports and run oem housings. If you go down the path of blocking up the side ports you still need to control the carbon. Sorry to be negative but just trying to help. Mine made 186hp at the wheels
All the comments! It sounds good fo sho
Maybe it's too stiff to rotate easy, too tight tolerance.... hmm
I think the apex seals are warped
Time to supercharge it, haters already hate it, now make turbo purist mad lol.
I wonder if a supercharger off a GM 3800 would be big enough.
Hello. I’m just seeing the video and it looks like you have issue with compression and those numbers at the dino are showing there is an issue. I have a hybrid with all five ports running and at the dino it’s over 200. I don’t have a Dino sheep, but I got videos of the car and the idol. It’s a lot better. So take a look at the inside maybe the side seals are not correct. My car has 100 in compression in each rotor. Stock ECU and tune with Mazda edit.
funny, how there is not one video anywhere of a hybrid running or on the dyno and now all of a sudden everyone has one. Yeah right
3.14 hp
Mmmmmm pie.
3.141592625 that's all I can go in my head
So basically... the engine set up for big boost is unhappy runnung NA... nobody is shocked.
This failure is really instructive. Nice job.
Boost it
183 hp? At the wheels?
well that was disappointing (cry face)
The engine is really its weakness.Just k swap it.Instant 200 ho hondah vtec power.Problem
Solved.
Deeper apex and Boost it.
Oh well…
189hp...
175whp my guess
69hp
Haven't you thought about trying to plug the Renesis exhausts and only use the RX7 peripheral ports?!
at this point, just get an rx7 engine with rx8 rotors.
And even they don't really do anything, I don't know why, in theory they have higher compression and are lighter, but for some reason, nobody ever got better results with them, probably because the seals aren't made for the rx7 ports
204.
Hybrid s kombinací bridgeportu je pro NA motor ta nejhorší varianta.. Velké překrytí výfukových a sacích portů :-(
300h
237
I love my RX8 but these engines are just not worth any effort.
Must be casual rotary viewer
@@flip240I was thinking the same . One of the greatest engines made !!!!
@@flip240 Not at all, been in the RX8 game for almost a decade and seen countless engine builds and none of them have been worth a shit. $5k and countless hours for this garbage when this has been done over and over. At this point either stick with a stock renny or do an engine swap.
I like what RAD has done and liked the journey but we all knew this was going to be the outcome. Love the braps though.
If I was doing a build now I'd WPC treat the housings where the apex seals ride against. Heck, I'd do everything. Reduce the friction, improve the wear resistance.
@@flip24040th Anniversary manual owner. Looking at its 3rd engine build. To say that spending more than the car is worth AGAIN ... is worth the "investment" is a joke. Money, time & result .. may as well part out the car. Super clean, and near pristine is a sad statement to part it. However. If stashing the car for a later date .. The Roadster Shop LS swap kit is more intriguing than another Renesis build. Thinking you may have never owned a dying RX8. Its beyond crushing. These engines are WAY TOO OVERPRICED for the short lifespan that they live. My wallet cries on.
womp womp indeed
Something is wrong with the motor, that doesn't make any sense at all.
2j swap it lol 😂😂😂
Rx8 do not dyno without the road speed sensor system fuse being pulled.
The car goes into limp mode
Ps your budy can NOT tune a RX8 map.
Its a locked CanBus system.
He is fooling you.
The RX8 CanBus is an active autoadaptive program that adjusts the fueling map and oil injector paramaters according to environmental conditions based on 2 sensors in the engine bay area and 2 lambda sensors
It wil map itself while you drive!
I rebuilt lots of rx8 engines in my time.
The hybrid swap works, its been done.
You did something wrong
So a guy gets selling u , and U bought it. Your not alone . in baseball u go back to basics. So maybe ( go back ) see what this guy was selling . references. He sold u the exhaust manifold ( flange ). How do you stay in business ? Saying stuff works and then ? WTF ? Especially that guy , !. . like ur videos. I would think he would want to sell more exhaust flanges . 81, 90 rx7 owner , not a poser ...
Sorry man, nothing gets LS reliably horsepower like LS does it.
That's why my daily driver has an LS2.