@@TypeVertigo well, you're half- right. There are two versions of the renesis. It's the 6-port version that's called the 13B-MSP because it has multiple intake side ports on the front and rear irons ( 3 ports per rotor, hence making it a 6-port intake) rather than the standard 2 intake ports per rotor. The 4 port renesis makes about 169hp stock and revs to 7500rpm iirc (found in the automatic RX-8s) and the 13B-MSP makes 212-238hp and revs to 8600-9000, depending on the market and has a 6-speed manual.
Great to see Rad Potential get some love. He’s by far one of the best rotary channels on RUclips. I’ve been following him since he bought the RX8 and it’s been great learning from his videos about the platform from him.
I have the same exact car and had the same problem...change all the solenoids which all of us neglect in every car and check the vacuum lines. I did this and my rx8 is super fast! Told my boy to do it on his rx7, gave him some extra kick as well
i have same issue in my RX8 S2 R3 , low power before 6k rpms is very slow jaajajaj but I also have a compression leak to the coolant, it is not big but if you notice bubbles in the auxiliary coolant reservoir, even when turning off the engine, the resulting pressure opens the overflow cap hahaha. I will probably have to open the engine soon, I hope the engine is a little better than the one used in this episode.
The RX8 and FD are my favorites rotary powered Mazdas. I'm excited to see 190 HP at the dyno. More would be better but I doubt it. Thank you Short Ben for keeping these rotary powered dreams alive.
I love seeing the Ben's having the ability to branch out in their projects AND bring other experts and youtubers in like they did with Thorns civic engine build. Great way to bring other communities in and truly WORK TOGETHER. great video! 👍
RX8 vs S2000 battle, I have a little experience with this. I've raced a RX8, S2000, and FT86 back to back to back on an autocross course. I've raced a few S2000s over the years. I've even driven my current RX8 vs a newer GR86 in autocross back to back too. First, the RX8 is a very, VERY GT car stock. It's really softly sprung, amusingly so. It has good damping but it's sooooooft. And in turn, it doesn't handle sticky tires well. You'll be sitting on the outside strut bumpstops on every turn. The stock setup understeers...a lot. You can disconnect the front sway bar, and it'll get close to neutral with slight understeer on cold tires and a bit of oversteer on hot rear tires. But it's again way, way too soft. Unlike the S2000 and the FT86 or GR86, it's not set up for sport driving in stock form. So, you really do have to upgrade the suspension some. Stiffer springs and a change of dampers is needed in order to make use of stickier tires. However, once you do that, it's a much better handling car in high grip. The RX8 is a bit heavier. You feel it. But..this heft gains you chassis stiffness, a LOT of chassis stiffness. The RX8 was outstanding in this regard, on par with cars being built nearly 20 years later. The gain is a chassis that responds really well to suspension tuning and provides the driver with a lot more precisions. But, you do have to always carry that weight. The S2000 is a bit...uh...more floppy. But it's tuned well. It feels narrow around you, thin through the corners. It's much more firm stock and handles more sharply. The design feels purposeful, a surgical tool, a scalpel. It's a similar feeling you get in cars like a Viper. They're task oriented and feel that way. It just means they're compromised elsewhere, and the S2000 is a worse daily driver, but on the track it feels more at home. I can argue the FT86 and GR86 are more similar to the S2000 in this way, although both are more well rounded and less compromising. Both of those however are as sporty as the S2000 in a sport application. The RX8 is NOT sporty stock and needs the suspension work to get there. But once done, a RX8 feels really similar to a modern GR86 in handling and performance. Back to the S2000. The S2000 is more visceral. It's sharper, busier, noisier, more tactile. You feel a lot through the chassis. The engine buzzes. You get a good sense of the mechanicals, more so than any of the other cars. The steering...is dead, completely dead. You feel nothing through it. Out of all of them the steering is the worst. It's precise but completely lacking tactile feel. It's not unique to the S2000. A modern ND Miata is the same and really kills a lot of the vibe of the car. The RX8, FT86, and GR86 have more feel through the steering. People talk a lot about the S2000 shifter. I like the FT86/GR86 better. So the FT86/GR86 has the best steering feel, the best shifting feel. The S2000 has the best tactile feel and communication through the chassis. Braking is...pad dependent. All are fine, but pad choice plays a big roll in what you get in the end. The S2000 understeers more than I like stock. Both the FT86 and GR86 are more neutral in stock form. The RX8 understeers quite a bit in stock form. Modded, all can be neutral. Ultimate grip, this is subjective and my gut feeling driven them. I think the RX8 and the GR86 specifically have the highest ability on good tires. The FT86 is a hair down. The S2000 can be grippy, but I think it's peak isn't as high. It's speed I feel is more so a byproduct of lightness and not as much as maximizing tire grip. The RX8 and GR86 can get uncomfortably grippy where it almost hurts to corner. Ok, onto the engine. The wunderplant of the automotive world, the S2000 screaming engine! It's neat, and it was special for the time. Both the RX8 and the S2000 make the FT86 feel weak...because it is. The GR86 is a much lumpier engine with good grunt and ultimate power. The GR86 stands out as being the most torquey and very similar on power to the RX8 and the S2000. The RX8 and S2000 power delivery is VERY similar, similar torque, similar rpm range. The difference is the RX8 is MUCH smoother. It's silky compared to the S2000's harsh engine. Power wise, they're basically the same through all of the rev range. I'll give the edge to the RX8 for feeling like it has a little more lower and midrange shove (against AP1). The RX8 engine is also much lighter in rotating inertia and is a bit more rev happy. Back to back, I like the RX8 engine more, but in the modern landscape, it's the GR86 engine that stands out, a comparative muscle car with quite a bit more torque throughout. In terms of raw competency, I feel the modern GR86 is king. Stock it's good and can be used right away for light sport use. It's still not built for long track days, but none of these are. Modded, I feel it has the most total potential. Second place I feel is the RX8. The chassis is super good. The power plant is super good, despite the stigmas. Stock it's a cushy GT car, but it scales incredibly with light mods. Just a couple parts puts it right next to a stock GR86 in what it can do lapping around an autocross course. I probably should say the FT86 is third, but I won't. I think the power lets it down ultimately, and I think the S2000's power and lightness can beat it. The S2000 was fast, extremely fast. It still is, frankly, but it's mostly doing it on lightness. But I think it's the weakest performer from a chassis standpoint these days. I should point out one last problem with the RX8, it's gearing. It's a GT car first, and its gearing is looooong. You can go 65mph in 2nd gear. For a 10,000 rpm engine car with low torque, the gearing feels completely out of place once used in a sport environment. Frankly it feels wrong daily driving too. A great contract to this is the modern ND miata. 6th gear is 1:1 in that car, and you get the joy of actually rowing through the gears. That's fun. That's enjoyable. That's what should be in the RX8. I don't know if you can shove a ND transmission into a RX8. But you can buy different final drives. You can buy up to a 5.8:1 final, and this basically shoves 1-6 into the range of 1-4 and putting it pretty near what a ND Miata is set up like. For sport use, this seems like the better option. I actually have a 5.8:1 gear set I bought for mine. I'd love to tell you about it, but it's not in the car yet. They are only made by one fellow in Australia, and the they don't quite last very well, apparently, so before installing I want to cryo treat it to help it out a bit, and I just haven't done that yet. For me, this is the last key to the RX8 puzzle. This is a gearing advantage, area under the curve equation kind of thing, and a closer ratio gearbox is a better fit to a 10,000 rpm hp geared low torque engine. This is where the S2000, FT86, GR86, and even the ND Miata are all advantaged. It's just a goofy part of the RX8 being a GT car first. It doesn't need to be modified to be decent around a track or autocross course, but I think it can help a lot. However you might also argue less shifting is better. It's just a power vs shifting time game, and you pick your battles. I have a high power Subaru with the STi 6sp, and that's a close ratio shift happy setup. For racing, it's on the edge of being a little short on gearing. That's got the power to nearly outrun the first 3 gears in timing. The RX8 just feels way too long. It's just a low torque and a whole lot of rpm kind of problem. It felt like the RX8 was just the NC Miata transmission with nearly no thought on gearing for a 10k rpm engine and just plopped in as-is. It really feels this way. And newer RX8s got a slightly better final drive, not much, but slightly better. Mazda knew it too. They just didn't go very far. I like the RX8s. I keep buying them over other cars like the S2000. The S2000 simply hasn't wowed me or interested me like the RX8. The only other thing I've thrown cash at is an old Z4 because those inline 6s are cool, basically adult Miatas. There's lots of cars that are good in their own ways but I don't buy. FT86, no. S2000 no. Solstice GXP/Sky Redline I like but still no (these can actually be a super fun project car though, just don't like the packaging, rear suspension, and the whole convertible setup), GR86...maybe. I like the GR86 enough that I might, just might swap a RX8 for. It's quite good and modern and a big step up in a lot of small ways from the FT86. It just lacks character though which is a drag. Wall-o-text, I know, bad habit. Maybe some of it was useful.
I swapped the 4.77 final in my 2004 - one major problem as a street car is the fuel economy. Went from 17/21 mpg roughly to 13/18 (15-20% decrease). Feels really bad when you’re making as little power as you are in these cars lol
Except the RX8 here is a R3. Which is basically a club sport version. Using Bilstien shocks , different springs, fluid filled cross member, BBS wheels and recaro seats. It also has a factory front splitter. They were made to be autocrossed or to be a weekend track car. I had one in red. Fun on the twisties but absolutely gutless on the street.
I really thought bridgeporting a rotary was machining it on a Bridgeport mill... super cool to know you can do it all by hand and not with a Bridgeport mill at all. 😅
Yep, that's how we did it. Sitting on a stool in the garage with a dremel. No templates, though. You did it by feel. Arguably the Engines were simpler, RX-2 and RX-4 motors. Easy to work on. There was NOTHING on them back then.
I still would personally get the porting done by a pro. So many dodgy port jobs out there. The radius / turns in ports are more important than cutting the actual bridge. You also want a nice even job and no sharp edges for parts of the seals / rotor to catch on.
@@gav240z true, and again, it's up to you. Some people would rather get it done cheaper and see a slight gain in power, while others are willing to spend the big bucks to get that port super smooth and still see a slightly bigger increase in power. Truth is, the value per dollar isn't there with porting the renesis.
Ayeee, RAD Potential in the spotlight, love it. His channel is incredibly underrated, and the amount of information and experience he shares is incredible.
I love how every car you bring onto this channel to rebuild has a niche group (Rotary, DSM, Camaro) of enthusiast that come in and help with the builds in the channel. Essential, they are the last generation to keep those cars running because what they learn wasn't from a shop manual or automotive class. It was taught and handed down in a garage from other enthusiast alike.
Long tube headers have proven to offer no effect on a 0 overlap engine. Bridgeporting doesnt fix this, just lowers the combustion efficiency and intake resonance. Bridgeporting is a waste of time unless you live for the brap brap life.
Anyone thinking about rebuilding a 13b engine and is afraid of doing so shouldn't be afraid of it. I rebuilt my 13b engine with no knowledge of building engines, they are really that simple. Its the first engine I've ever rebuild, i plan on buying another engine to rebuild just for fun, this time it will be an Rx8 engine since they are the cheaper option.
If you're going to bridge port a motor so it can breathe better, it also needs to get that air out. 16:06 You might want to install a racing beat header.
Problem is the Rx8 has no issues getting air in. The side exhaust ports have a hard time getting air out efficiently. Which is why header and exhaust doesnt provide a massive benefit. Also why bridgeporting causes a power loss in the renesis because you ruin your intake resonance that was the sole design intent mazda worked so hard on.
So glad you guys had Erich on the channel! I've been following him for a while now. He's an awesome and talented gearhead who's given a lot of his very extensive rotary knowledge back to the community. He's also done some really cool builds, including his rotary powered dodge colt rally car. You couldn't have picked a better person to stack your engine.
Never knew about Erich's channel, but as a mazda fan boy, it seems right up my alley. Going to sub, hopefully his videos get my by until my Saturday morning G&G episodes!
I think without a tune it will make maybe 190whp. With a tune i could see 215whp maybe 220. Thats my best guess at least. Also shoutout to Radpotential. Iv'e been a sub of his for a while now. He's great and glad you guys gave him the opportunity to come on the gears and gasoline channel 👍
@@fastinradfordable It honestly would. They aren't fast cars by any means and basically anything that isn't an economy car will beat it. The main appeal to the RX8 is how cheap they are 2nd hand (because the engines die and nobody can afford or find somewhere to fix them at) and the driving experience is really entertaining. You get a 9250RPM redline and a very unique sounding (and in my opinion GOOD sounding) engine that just makes you smile when you drive it. There aren't too many high revving cars these days and especially for how cheap you can get an RX8 2nd hand. The high revving scream you get is just something that you don't get with a lot of cars.
@@fastinradfordable 318 CI versus the 13B that's realistically a 159 CI / 2.6L (when you account for the number of power cycles per rotation compared to a four-stroke). Granted 170 whp is only so-so for a 2.6L, but rotary engines aren't that efficient.
Ive had a rx8 for about year now and have watched none stop videos and i have to say its great to see two channels that have helped me alot come together on a project
I had an RX-2 with a bridge ported 13B in it. Boy, those were fun times..... before California took everything away from you. Back then we sat in the garage and hand dremel'd the ports and built the motors ourselves. Racing Beat was the King back then!
There's quite a lot of things you can do in terms of supporting mods/bolt-ons to the RX8 to get more power out of it, including a few tunes; the Renesis under the right hands can make 230WHP easily with a tune, you just need a good exhaust (header is very important), and intake. Keep in mind, the ECU for the RX8 is VERY smart, it will adjust its tables on its own, best to clear the NVRAM if you're doing any kind of mods to it, especially now with the bridge port. I say it will make between 180WHP and 190WHP most likely in its current condition. Make sure your ignition system is up to par, need that strong spark to make the power. You can easily beat an S2k on tight tracks with the right suspension mods, brakes, and tire setup. He will walk you in a straight no matter what you do though. Oil catch can is a very common and very important mod on the RX8. Best of luck, looking forward to next episode. And please, for the love of rotaries, I hope you're running thicker oil than 5w20...
Erich is awesome! I have been loving his rally journey lately. He mentioned something exciting coming in his last video, I guess this is it. Awesome guy to have around, I'm sure. Probably not as extreme as going a little closer to home and giving Mike Vargas a call, but tall Ben needs to have a chance. Vargas would spend 30k, jam out 650hp, and catch everything nearby on fire while blowing everyone's eardrums. 😂
Nice one on the rebuild. IDK if you guys did it, but a guy i know rebuilded his rx-8 using apex seals from an FD RX7. They are a bit thicker, they nd a bit of custom fitting but the end result was a super high compression even after many years...
The come up of the RAD Potential channel must be appreciated and 👏… and as a certified rotary head I’m happy for the dude and our small rotary community that’s still alive.
I'm not too sure if I would say the Renesis is the cheaper rotary. Rebuild would cost about the same as a REW for housing and seals. Can't wait to see both the S2k and Rx8 more!
I own a bridgeport series 1, bridged the upper port only though as it didn’t make much sense to bridge the bottom port for me. Awesome to see a nice rebuild done and not just a slapped or wrecked engine.
I'd trust Erich more personally. No ego and very transparent about everything. He's also an engineer by profession, so he understands the function and importance of tolerances and material properties a lot better than most builders. From what I've seen, even "trusted" rotary engine builders don't seem to know how to properly use a micrometer or indicator, or even feeler gauges sometimes. Side seal clearancing and checking flatness of irons drives me crazy in particular.
Before going on the dyno, get a Racing Beat header (as many have mentionned) and a really good tuner with Versatune (unless going $$$ standalone) as that can make or break the engine. I also hope Erich cleaned up/smoothed out the exhaust ports while the engine was apart... the Renesis seems to be really sensitive to intake/exhaust imbalance in NA form. With a good tune and supporting bolt-ons to that bridgeport, you might tickle 200whp.
27 now, had one of these when I was 18/19/20 and it was the most fun/expensive car I miss it everyday. Working as a oil change and tire guy just to afford to drive the car hehe
An rx8 with aftermarket intake and a proper Bridgeport, you might produce around 220-230 HP. Great video. Love the step by step stuff, motivating me for my current rx8 project
I was so surprised to see Eric I was not expecting that I’ve watched his videos on rad potential for a long time thats was great you guys brought him on.
Love the video. I found after investigating that 2 cylinder rotary engines don't make a lot of power or should I say torque. It's worth investigating a 4-cylinder (twin rotor 26B) and seeing the increase in torque. Third and fourth gear wheel spin. Obviously, it's about the buzz and the pull at high rev range. Long live the rotary
Another thing I recommend for horsepower is an exhaust if you don’t already have one. You already have a cold air intake, which is good, but both intake and exhaust are the best ways to make horsepower aside from bridgeporting since rotaries *need* to breathe. Racing Beat makes really good exhausts for rotary cars
Nice. I went around a few laps of Mid Ohio with a friend in his stock Shinka and was surprised at how well it handled, I always wondered what it would be like if it had more power.
I think you’re ready for a real parts washer and blast cabinet, they’d really help you out 👍🏻 Also I think you could splash out on some impact sockets 😎
...I wonder if you can do a Bridge Port on a Bridgeport. Y'know, that thing that sits in the corner of the shop that looks like an oversized drill press. (I know it's technically a "knee mill" and Bridgeport is the brand name but still...) Also, Akimbo Impact Drivers. A fun way to have RUclips-Friendly Dakka.
Probably the template cuts. Way quicker and easier to just use a carbide burr rather than having to setup on a mill and find the appropriate tooling, all that. Turn a 30 minute job into a whole day, I would imagine.
It should make around the same power it would have made if you had just rebuilt it and fixed any issues. A good well built Renesis with free flowing exhaust will make 200-210whp on most dynos.
I'm 39, I've seen dozens of stock & modded RX8's blow their shiz up from the mid-2000's to mid-2010's when I was up near Toronto... so sexy, but most of us knew better and stayed away. Unbelievable chassis/balance, and one wreck of an engine.
My guess is 190whp. I've seen Car Throttle show a 2nd bridgeport added to the intake above the one that was added into your irons. Those bridgports typically leave NA Renesis motors at 195-215whp.
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
Mark buying groceries be like "well this milk cost about .03% of a k series"
😂😂😂
😂
😂
I can't still can't believe tag Tall Ben is having a K-series and small Ben has a rotary. It's like the reverse version of the last road trip series😅
Thinking the exact same thing. Surprised short Ben didn’t go with a k swap on this vehicle
Love seeing RAD Potential in this video, guy loves his rotary engines!
Definitely love the fact that he's repping and doing good in rallies with his A70 Lancers.
He’s the goat for sure
BABE WAKE UP THEY'RE FINALLY DOING SOMETHING TO THE RX8
Im saying lol😂
😂
RX8 fans here👇
Love that i can reliably expect an upload every weekend
I get my coffee, my daughter gets her bottle, we both get G&G :) (and then Speed Academy)
@@edJoeMilleryou’re a fantastic father
@@edJoeMiller very wholesome
Well... This miss a Saturday occasionally so not super reliable but I appreciate them and look forward to it every Saturday lol
if the bens could only get there cars as reliable as their upload schedule
Ive been following Eric for a couple years so to see this mash-up is fantastic! Couldn't have picked a better guy/channel to highlight.
Ik right me too. Been watching him since like 1.5k subs. Super happy that they did this collaborations
Rotaries ain't cheap. Love the content, please keep making it. ♥
Good point on the Renesis being a 13B. I believe Mazda refers to it alternatively as the 13B-MSP, for "multi side port"
You would be correct! Full government name is 13B-MSP Renesis
@@TypeVertigo well, you're half- right. There are two versions of the renesis. It's the 6-port version that's called the 13B-MSP because it has multiple intake side ports on the front and rear irons ( 3 ports per rotor, hence making it a 6-port intake) rather than the standard 2 intake ports per rotor. The 4 port renesis makes about 169hp stock and revs to 7500rpm iirc (found in the automatic RX-8s) and the 13B-MSP makes 212-238hp and revs to 8600-9000, depending on the market and has a 6-speed manual.
@@TypeVertigo so basically the 13B-MSP only refers to the 6-port engine that comes in the manual RX-8s.
Great to see Rad Potential get some love. He’s by far one of the best rotary channels on RUclips. I’ve been following him since he bought the RX8 and it’s been great learning from his videos about the platform from him.
Big fan of RAD Potential love his videos.
I have the same exact car and had the same problem...change all the solenoids which all of us neglect in every car and check the vacuum lines. I did this and my rx8 is super fast! Told my boy to do it on his rx7, gave him some extra kick as well
Commenting so they see this
How do you know if the solenoid is out?
@@tnutss low power
@@jayespi37 😂😂😂
i have same issue in my RX8 S2 R3 , low power before 6k rpms is very slow jaajajaj
but I also have a compression leak to the coolant, it is not big but if you notice bubbles in the auxiliary coolant reservoir, even when turning off the engine, the resulting pressure opens the overflow cap hahaha.
I will probably have to open the engine soon, I hope the engine is a little better than the one used in this episode.
The RX8 and FD are my favorites rotary powered Mazdas.
I'm excited to see 190 HP at the dyno. More would be better but I doubt it.
Thank you Short Ben for keeping these rotary powered dreams alive.
Healthy ones i've seen at 206whp
@@ve2430 That would be awesome.
Still not a K series though. (:
@@WarriorsPhoto I don't know anything about a k series. What makes it special?
@@ve2430 I don't know either.
Makes us wonder what is it about the platform that everyone raves about?
I love seeing the Ben's having the ability to branch out in their projects AND bring other experts and youtubers in like they did with Thorns civic engine build. Great way to bring other communities in and truly WORK TOGETHER. great video! 👍
RX8 vs S2000 battle, I have a little experience with this. I've raced a RX8, S2000, and FT86 back to back to back on an autocross course. I've raced a few S2000s over the years. I've even driven my current RX8 vs a newer GR86 in autocross back to back too. First, the RX8 is a very, VERY GT car stock. It's really softly sprung, amusingly so. It has good damping but it's sooooooft. And in turn, it doesn't handle sticky tires well. You'll be sitting on the outside strut bumpstops on every turn. The stock setup understeers...a lot. You can disconnect the front sway bar, and it'll get close to neutral with slight understeer on cold tires and a bit of oversteer on hot rear tires. But it's again way, way too soft. Unlike the S2000 and the FT86 or GR86, it's not set up for sport driving in stock form. So, you really do have to upgrade the suspension some. Stiffer springs and a change of dampers is needed in order to make use of stickier tires. However, once you do that, it's a much better handling car in high grip.
The RX8 is a bit heavier. You feel it. But..this heft gains you chassis stiffness, a LOT of chassis stiffness. The RX8 was outstanding in this regard, on par with cars being built nearly 20 years later. The gain is a chassis that responds really well to suspension tuning and provides the driver with a lot more precisions. But, you do have to always carry that weight. The S2000 is a bit...uh...more floppy. But it's tuned well. It feels narrow around you, thin through the corners. It's much more firm stock and handles more sharply. The design feels purposeful, a surgical tool, a scalpel. It's a similar feeling you get in cars like a Viper. They're task oriented and feel that way. It just means they're compromised elsewhere, and the S2000 is a worse daily driver, but on the track it feels more at home. I can argue the FT86 and GR86 are more similar to the S2000 in this way, although both are more well rounded and less compromising. Both of those however are as sporty as the S2000 in a sport application. The RX8 is NOT sporty stock and needs the suspension work to get there. But once done, a RX8 feels really similar to a modern GR86 in handling and performance. Back to the S2000. The S2000 is more visceral. It's sharper, busier, noisier, more tactile. You feel a lot through the chassis. The engine buzzes. You get a good sense of the mechanicals, more so than any of the other cars. The steering...is dead, completely dead. You feel nothing through it. Out of all of them the steering is the worst. It's precise but completely lacking tactile feel. It's not unique to the S2000. A modern ND Miata is the same and really kills a lot of the vibe of the car. The RX8, FT86, and GR86 have more feel through the steering. People talk a lot about the S2000 shifter. I like the FT86/GR86 better. So the FT86/GR86 has the best steering feel, the best shifting feel. The S2000 has the best tactile feel and communication through the chassis. Braking is...pad dependent. All are fine, but pad choice plays a big roll in what you get in the end. The S2000 understeers more than I like stock. Both the FT86 and GR86 are more neutral in stock form. The RX8 understeers quite a bit in stock form. Modded, all can be neutral. Ultimate grip, this is subjective and my gut feeling driven them. I think the RX8 and the GR86 specifically have the highest ability on good tires. The FT86 is a hair down. The S2000 can be grippy, but I think it's peak isn't as high. It's speed I feel is more so a byproduct of lightness and not as much as maximizing tire grip. The RX8 and GR86 can get uncomfortably grippy where it almost hurts to corner. Ok, onto the engine. The wunderplant of the automotive world, the S2000 screaming engine! It's neat, and it was special for the time. Both the RX8 and the S2000 make the FT86 feel weak...because it is. The GR86 is a much lumpier engine with good grunt and ultimate power. The GR86 stands out as being the most torquey and very similar on power to the RX8 and the S2000. The RX8 and S2000 power delivery is VERY similar, similar torque, similar rpm range. The difference is the RX8 is MUCH smoother. It's silky compared to the S2000's harsh engine. Power wise, they're basically the same through all of the rev range. I'll give the edge to the RX8 for feeling like it has a little more lower and midrange shove (against AP1). The RX8 engine is also much lighter in rotating inertia and is a bit more rev happy. Back to back, I like the RX8 engine more, but in the modern landscape, it's the GR86 engine that stands out, a comparative muscle car with quite a bit more torque throughout.
In terms of raw competency, I feel the modern GR86 is king. Stock it's good and can be used right away for light sport use. It's still not built for long track days, but none of these are. Modded, I feel it has the most total potential. Second place I feel is the RX8. The chassis is super good. The power plant is super good, despite the stigmas. Stock it's a cushy GT car, but it scales incredibly with light mods. Just a couple parts puts it right next to a stock GR86 in what it can do lapping around an autocross course. I probably should say the FT86 is third, but I won't. I think the power lets it down ultimately, and I think the S2000's power and lightness can beat it. The S2000 was fast, extremely fast. It still is, frankly, but it's mostly doing it on lightness. But I think it's the weakest performer from a chassis standpoint these days.
I should point out one last problem with the RX8, it's gearing. It's a GT car first, and its gearing is looooong. You can go 65mph in 2nd gear. For a 10,000 rpm engine car with low torque, the gearing feels completely out of place once used in a sport environment. Frankly it feels wrong daily driving too. A great contract to this is the modern ND miata. 6th gear is 1:1 in that car, and you get the joy of actually rowing through the gears. That's fun. That's enjoyable. That's what should be in the RX8. I don't know if you can shove a ND transmission into a RX8. But you can buy different final drives. You can buy up to a 5.8:1 final, and this basically shoves 1-6 into the range of 1-4 and putting it pretty near what a ND Miata is set up like. For sport use, this seems like the better option. I actually have a 5.8:1 gear set I bought for mine. I'd love to tell you about it, but it's not in the car yet. They are only made by one fellow in Australia, and the they don't quite last very well, apparently, so before installing I want to cryo treat it to help it out a bit, and I just haven't done that yet. For me, this is the last key to the RX8 puzzle. This is a gearing advantage, area under the curve equation kind of thing, and a closer ratio gearbox is a better fit to a 10,000 rpm hp geared low torque engine. This is where the S2000, FT86, GR86, and even the ND Miata are all advantaged. It's just a goofy part of the RX8 being a GT car first. It doesn't need to be modified to be decent around a track or autocross course, but I think it can help a lot. However you might also argue less shifting is better. It's just a power vs shifting time game, and you pick your battles. I have a high power Subaru with the STi 6sp, and that's a close ratio shift happy setup. For racing, it's on the edge of being a little short on gearing. That's got the power to nearly outrun the first 3 gears in timing. The RX8 just feels way too long. It's just a low torque and a whole lot of rpm kind of problem. It felt like the RX8 was just the NC Miata transmission with nearly no thought on gearing for a 10k rpm engine and just plopped in as-is. It really feels this way. And newer RX8s got a slightly better final drive, not much, but slightly better. Mazda knew it too. They just didn't go very far.
I like the RX8s. I keep buying them over other cars like the S2000. The S2000 simply hasn't wowed me or interested me like the RX8. The only other thing I've thrown cash at is an old Z4 because those inline 6s are cool, basically adult Miatas. There's lots of cars that are good in their own ways but I don't buy. FT86, no. S2000 no. Solstice GXP/Sky Redline I like but still no (these can actually be a super fun project car though, just don't like the packaging, rear suspension, and the whole convertible setup), GR86...maybe. I like the GR86 enough that I might, just might swap a RX8 for. It's quite good and modern and a big step up in a lot of small ways from the FT86. It just lacks character though which is a drag.
Wall-o-text, I know, bad habit. Maybe some of it was useful.
Im for it but will the rx8 be able to handle the abuse
I swapped the 4.77 final in my 2004 - one major problem as a street car is the fuel economy. Went from 17/21 mpg roughly to 13/18 (15-20% decrease). Feels really bad when you’re making as little power as you are in these cars lol
lol
My 1999 jetta tdi with a chip tune smokes a s2000 off the line.
Embarrassing.
Yes it revs.
Because there’s nothing down low
Rx8 gearing being bad is relative, when you come from an NA FC background the Rx8 transmission feels great... but yeah, I know what you mean.
Except the RX8 here is a R3. Which is basically a club sport version. Using Bilstien shocks , different springs, fluid filled cross member, BBS wheels and recaro seats. It also has a factory front splitter. They were made to be autocrossed or to be a weekend track car. I had one in red. Fun on the twisties but absolutely gutless on the street.
I really thought bridgeporting a rotary was machining it on a Bridgeport mill... super cool to know you can do it all by hand and not with a Bridgeport mill at all. 😅
I thought the exact same thing!
Yep, that's how we did it. Sitting on a stool in the garage with a dremel. No templates, though. You did it by feel.
Arguably the Engines were simpler, RX-2 and RX-4 motors. Easy to work on. There was NOTHING on them back then.
Yeah you can, you just need a Bridgeport template and a Dremel@@MapleMonarchy
I still would personally get the porting done by a pro. So many dodgy port jobs out there. The radius / turns in ports are more important than cutting the actual bridge. You also want a nice even job and no sharp edges for parts of the seals / rotor to catch on.
@@gav240z true, and again, it's up to you. Some people would rather get it done cheaper and see a slight gain in power, while others are willing to spend the big bucks to get that port super smooth and still see a slightly bigger increase in power. Truth is, the value per dollar isn't there with porting the renesis.
Ayeee, RAD Potential in the spotlight, love it. His channel is incredibly underrated, and the amount of information and experience he shares is incredible.
I love how every car you bring onto this channel to rebuild has a niche group (Rotary, DSM, Camaro) of enthusiast that come in and help with the builds in the channel. Essential, they are the last generation to keep those cars running because what they learn wasn't from a shop manual or automotive class. It was taught and handed down in a garage from other enthusiast alike.
210 hp. Maybe 217hp with a Racing Beat long tube header and a tune.
7:23 7:23 7:23 7:23
Rx8club says Stock header is best. 206whp on stock headers I've seen
Long tube headers have proven to offer no effect on a 0 overlap engine. Bridgeporting doesnt fix this, just lowers the combustion efficiency and intake resonance. Bridgeporting is a waste of time unless you live for the brap brap life.
Anyone thinking about rebuilding a 13b engine and is afraid of doing so shouldn't be afraid of it.
I rebuilt my 13b engine with no knowledge of building engines, they are really that simple. Its the first engine I've ever rebuild, i plan on buying another engine to rebuild just for fun, this time it will be an Rx8 engine since they are the cheaper option.
212 HP gained my guess
@@Alex-vz2jzI said 220hp and I agree. I'm rebuilding my 13brew.
Yeah but a rebuild kit costs a small fortune. You can almost LS swap an RX8 for what just the kit costs.
@@marshubbs7078 🤡
@@marshubbs7078 you don't buy an Rx8 for the car. You buy it because it's a cheap way to dip your toes in the rotary world.
If you're going to bridge port a motor so it can breathe better, it also needs to get that air out. 16:06 You might want to install a racing beat header.
and a cat delete pipe and good cat back exhaust.
Problem is the Rx8 has no issues getting air in. The side exhaust ports have a hard time getting air out efficiently. Which is why header and exhaust doesnt provide a massive benefit.
Also why bridgeporting causes a power loss in the renesis because you ruin your intake resonance that was the sole design intent mazda worked so hard on.
@@mincvinyl that’s why you port the exhaust too. In naturally aspirated engines, every horsepower counts big time.
@@ultimatejay yeah porting the exhaust ports would be more ideal than a bridge.
So glad you guys had Erich on the channel! I've been following him for a while now. He's an awesome and talented gearhead who's given a lot of his very extensive rotary knowledge back to the community. He's also done some really cool builds, including his rotary powered dodge colt rally car. You couldn't have picked a better person to stack your engine.
Never knew about Erich's channel, but as a mazda fan boy, it seems right up my alley. Going to sub, hopefully his videos get my by until my Saturday morning G&G episodes!
I think without a tune it will make maybe 190whp. With a tune i could see 215whp maybe 220. Thats my best guess at least.
Also shoutout to Radpotential. Iv'e been a sub of his for a while now. He's great and glad you guys gave him the opportunity to come on the gears and gasoline channel 👍
In highschool my friends dad had a new rx8
And my 1971 Plymouth valiant 318 2bbl (230crank hp)
Could SMOKE that rx8
@@fastinradfordable It honestly would. They aren't fast cars by any means and basically anything that isn't an economy car will beat it. The main appeal to the RX8 is how cheap they are 2nd hand (because the engines die and nobody can afford or find somewhere to fix them at) and the driving experience is really entertaining. You get a 9250RPM redline and a very unique sounding (and in my opinion GOOD sounding) engine that just makes you smile when you drive it. There aren't too many high revving cars these days and especially for how cheap you can get an RX8 2nd hand. The high revving scream you get is just something that you don't get with a lot of cars.
@@fastinradfordable 318 CI versus the 13B that's realistically a 159 CI / 2.6L (when you account for the number of power cycles per rotation compared to a four-stroke). Granted 170 whp is only so-so for a 2.6L, but rotary engines aren't that efficient.
Ive had a rx8 for about year now and have watched none stop videos and i have to say its great to see two channels that have helped me alot come together on a project
I had an RX-2 with a bridge ported 13B in it. Boy, those were fun times..... before California took everything away from you.
Back then we sat in the garage and hand dremel'd the ports and built the motors ourselves. Racing Beat was the King back then!
There's quite a lot of things you can do in terms of supporting mods/bolt-ons to the RX8 to get more power out of it, including a few tunes; the Renesis under the right hands can make 230WHP easily with a tune, you just need a good exhaust (header is very important), and intake. Keep in mind, the ECU for the RX8 is VERY smart, it will adjust its tables on its own, best to clear the NVRAM if you're doing any kind of mods to it, especially now with the bridge port. I say it will make between 180WHP and 190WHP most likely in its current condition. Make sure your ignition system is up to par, need that strong spark to make the power. You can easily beat an S2k on tight tracks with the right suspension mods, brakes, and tire setup. He will walk you in a straight no matter what you do though. Oil catch can is a very common and very important mod on the RX8. Best of luck, looking forward to next episode. And please, for the love of rotaries, I hope you're running thicker oil than 5w20...
Erich is awesome! I have been loving his rally journey lately. He mentioned something exciting coming in his last video, I guess this is it. Awesome guy to have around, I'm sure. Probably not as extreme as going a little closer to home and giving Mike Vargas a call, but tall Ben needs to have a chance. Vargas would spend 30k, jam out 650hp, and catch everything nearby on fire while blowing everyone's eardrums. 😂
and steal half of the parts they used from customers 🙃
RAD Potential is a true petrol head legend. Love to see the crossover
Nice one on the rebuild. IDK if you guys did it, but a guy i know rebuilded his rx-8 using apex seals from an FD RX7. They are a bit thicker, they nd a bit of custom fitting but the end result was a super high compression even after many years...
Same thickness on all apex seals since they dropped the old 3mm design, the difference is seal height.
@@BeaverLakeMotorsports FD seals are at 5mm thickness
@@619LAzarosThat's seal height, 2mm thick.
6:48 dual wielding impacts is impressive
Ironically K-swapping an RX8 cost 12x the cost of a K-series. Who knew?
Im hoping it broke the 200hp mark with all that work lol
Watching the tear down of that engine was as foreign as watching an alien autopsy, but I loved it!
"Dorito triangles have how many ring thingies?"
2 of my favorite RUclips channels coming together. Love it.
The come up of the RAD Potential channel must be appreciated and 👏… and as a certified rotary head I’m happy for the dude and our small rotary community that’s still alive.
Awesome video as always Ben T and Mark and special guest Eric.
Always great to see a teardown and identify what was wrong with it. Thanks for showing it instead of just throwing another engine at it
This video makes my recovering rotary addict heart happy. Gladly had a Chaste White FD and an RX-8.
I'm not too sure if I would say the Renesis is the cheaper rotary. Rebuild would cost about the same as a REW for housing and seals. Can't wait to see both the S2k and Rx8 more!
You should try valvoline restore and protect for that sludge removal. I bet the passages are still sludged up.
Love love love rad potential, so glad to see him on a bigger channel
Oh snappp Rad Potential in the building!! Two of my favorite channels in one place!
Ayy, that's my man! Love seeing the RAD Potential features!
this episode was amazing, love learning new things about forgotten engines
its so cool to see RadPotential on here with you guys. Awessome team up!
Hells ya Erich, dude's a wizard, I've been building rotaries for a bit now and I still learn new things every time he comes out with a new vid.
JIMMY OAKES AND G&G REBUILDING A ROTARY IN THE SAME DAY WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE
Two short term builds to compete on the track is a recipe I am down for. Love this!
I own a bridgeport series 1, bridged the upper port only though as it didn’t make much sense to bridge the bottom port for me.
Awesome to see a nice rebuild done and not just a slapped or wrecked engine.
The collaboration with RAD was amazing!!!
The price we pay to keep legends alive , keep the culture alive every single motor ❤❤
seeing rad potential is awesome, he helped me with a lot of 12A stuff
Surprised you did not go with Angel Motorsports in. Virginia. RAD potential is still talented just further away. His channel will blow up now.
They are crooks that's why. Why do you think Hert doesn't associate with John anymore?
@@plav032 Jimmy Oakes posted a video today with Vargas building his engine.
I'd trust Erich more personally. No ego and very transparent about everything. He's also an engineer by profession, so he understands the function and importance of tolerances and material properties a lot better than most builders. From what I've seen, even "trusted" rotary engine builders don't seem to know how to properly use a micrometer or indicator, or even feeler gauges sometimes. Side seal clearancing and checking flatness of irons drives me crazy in particular.
That corner seal cutting device is genius omg
Before going on the dyno, get a Racing Beat header (as many have mentionned) and a really good tuner with Versatune (unless going $$$ standalone) as that can make or break the engine. I also hope Erich cleaned up/smoothed out the exhaust ports while the engine was apart... the Renesis seems to be really sensitive to intake/exhaust imbalance in NA form. With a good tune and supporting bolt-ons to that bridgeport, you might tickle 200whp.
Insanely well put together step-by-step process
27 now, had one of these when I was 18/19/20 and it was the most fun/expensive car I miss it everyday. Working as a oil change and tire guy just to afford to drive the car hehe
An rx8 with aftermarket intake and a proper Bridgeport, you might produce around 220-230 HP. Great video. Love the step by step stuff, motivating me for my current rx8 project
Erich from Rad Potential!!! Such a great channel, seems like a good dude too.
I was so surprised to see Eric I was not expecting that I’ve watched his videos on rad potential for a long time thats was great you guys brought him on.
One of the better episodes as of late, as far as my own enjoyment. Can't wait for the RX-8 vs. S2000 battle!
I would love to put a VQ37 in a RX8 would be a weapon of a track car. Good to see Ben keeping the 13b I love the way they sound.
Love the video. I found after investigating that 2 cylinder rotary engines don't make a lot of power or should I say torque. It's worth investigating a 4-cylinder (twin rotor 26B) and seeing the increase in torque. Third and fourth gear wheel spin. Obviously, it's about the buzz and the pull at high rev range. Long live the rotary
I SAW THE S2000 UPLOAD EARLY, BRING IT BACK COWARDS
You guys make me feel good about my bad financial decisions
Another thing I recommend for horsepower is an exhaust if you don’t already have one. You already have a cold air intake, which is good, but both intake and exhaust are the best ways to make horsepower aside from bridgeporting since rotaries *need* to breathe. Racing Beat makes really good exhausts for rotary cars
YOOO glad to see RAD on the show! Dude knows his rotaries
GREAT video
Loved this engine build up - well done chaps.
Nice. I went around a few laps of Mid Ohio with a friend in his stock Shinka and was surprised at how well it handled, I always wondered what it would be like if it had more power.
Going to need exhaust and tune to take advantage of the bp. Thanks for keeping it rotary dude
I think you’re ready for a real parts washer and blast cabinet, they’d really help you out 👍🏻 Also I think you could splash out on some impact sockets 😎
RAD Potential!! What is this collab. Am i dreaming??
Random. The RX7 road trip was the best edit, I've watched it 3 times. I came here today
looking for more roadtrips
Love watching some Lynchburg locals do some so awesome
Lets go Eric!! Hell yah, so cool seeing you rocking with the big boys now
180whp
...I wonder if you can do a Bridge Port on a Bridgeport. Y'know, that thing that sits in the corner of the shop that looks like an oversized drill press. (I know it's technically a "knee mill" and Bridgeport is the brand name but still...)
Also, Akimbo Impact Drivers. A fun way to have RUclips-Friendly Dakka.
Probably the template cuts. Way quicker and easier to just use a carbide burr rather than having to setup on a mill and find the appropriate tooling, all that. Turn a 30 minute job into a whole day, I would imagine.
It should make around the same power it would have made if you had just rebuilt it and fixed any issues. A good well built Renesis with free flowing exhaust will make 200-210whp on most dynos.
Been lovin the RX-8 content. Pls keep makin them.
Rad potential in the house! Very skilled professional!
😮 WOW YOU GUYS HAVE REALLY STEPPED UP THE EDITING 🤯.....DAMN GOOD JOB 👍
I'm 39, I've seen dozens of stock & modded RX8's blow their shiz up from the mid-2000's to mid-2010's when I was up near Toronto... so sexy, but most of us knew better and stayed away. Unbelievable chassis/balance, and one wreck of an engine.
It's definitely worth swapping out that header, plus a tune to lean it out a little. Should see 215whp
I would guess 207hp. I can’t wait to see this face off. Maybe after this the S10K with get turbocharged. Thanks for the great content fellas!
I don't know the rotory guy, I'm also still watching the video, but I instantly had more respect for him when he cleaned the engine first.
I’ve watched RAD Potential for about the past three or four years. It’s such a cool surprise to see Erich here on my favorite RUclips channel!
Watching a teardown and rebuild on this engine is so different! And what a fascinating mod
rad potential!!! hope they get big from your guys help
Is that a used jello-shot dispenser full of hi-temp grease at 12:47? Here I thought I was the only guy with one of those around! 😂😂
This was such a cool video, learned a lot from the guys at RAD Potential :)
NOTHING BEATS RX-8 VIDEOS!!❤
I’m guessing the red liquid they are using is high tack to hold the seals from popping out.
Digging this build and series. I’m guessing 255whp 🤙🏼
I may never get to build my own car, but at least I get to watch other people do it. It’s all good, but I enjoy the content.
My guess is 190whp. I've seen Car Throttle show a 2nd bridgeport added to the intake above the one that was added into your irons. Those bridgports typically leave NA Renesis motors at 195-215whp.
Finally a follow up to the rx8 build.
My guess is going to be 210 HP and 150tq after rebuild. We shall see
I loved this video! Love that you’re doing an RX8
So glad to see "rad" on a colab.
More rx8 content please 🙏