Thanks for the video. I've owned a dozen APC UPS's for years and used to swear by them. APC more "intelligent" firmware now actively prevents you from buying higher capacity batteries, which are often cheaper and better quality than the APC packs, as well. It locks runtime to the model number, instead of using a cutoff voltage, or proper battery management of consumption. No amount of factory default, or calibration fixes this issue. This is on units from about 2010 or later. I've since migrated to Victron Energy inverter/charger/xfer switch products out of the Netherlands. They are completely programmable for SLA vs LifePo4, cutoff voltages, charge voltages, absorption times, etc. They are more expensive but infinitely more useful to protect a larger DIY home network.
some models of new apc units are still programable. i have a br1000g-in and it works perfectly fine with a 25.6v 12ah lifepo4 pack i made. the oem replacement battery is more expensive than the cells i bought. it also runs 45min at 300w load and stops discharging when the battery gets to 20v , it stops charging at 29v and flats at 27v. the charger board on this model is separate from main board and it has a jumper to set the battery charging current from 1.25amp to 3.75amp because this model has an optional external battery pack that takes the total capacity to 27ah 24v leadacid. i have been using it with the lifepo4 pack i made for almost 5-6yrs now and it is still holding up full charge. other models like the srv1kuxi lets you set charging current and program battery capacity. although they have no lifepo4 setting so the run time will never be accurate. lifepo4 has no pukert effect so all the whr energy is available for use.
@@KuntalGhosh Thanks for your message. I'm super happy with the Victron Energy solution I've implemented. It's considerably more expensive, but gives me access to all the nerdy stats, live current/voltages, charge/discharges rates, ability to adjust charge current to 80A, direct support for lifepo4, etc. I've added a manual transfer switch to my house, and can power my whole house heating, refrigerator, etc through the same solution. You can tell this is the "professional" ways to do things. I'm done with APC handicapping their products.....
Thanks for the information, which is both interesting and troubling to learn, but it almost seems like you are wasting money by putting philosophy over need? How long do you really need the home network to stay up if everything on it is also on battery power, and how much power does, say a router and handful of switches really use? I ask this already having a pretty good idea, and recognizing that most things that I'd continue using on battery power, don't even run through the switches, instead wifi. Also, why have you owned a dozen UPS? Insufficient site surge protection killing them?
While need is a subjective term in our first world problems lives, I've wanted a more resilient setup for years. My home network is extensive, includes (3) desktops, (4) access points, using a mostly filled 16-port switch, ~(30) wifi devices. My steady state usage ballparks 375 watts. Prior to this setup, I needed (4) UPS's to have any barely tolerable amount of time. I was using a 1500, 600, and (2) 350s. Bought over the years as things grew. With battery replacements happening every 3-5 yrs. If I start powering off devices, I can get this down to about 70 watts for the critical things. Do the math on what size solution you need to last about 12 hours. Redesigning this allowed me to not only scale and integrate, but also add things like hvac heater support, refrigerator, lights, TVs, etc. Power outages are fairly infrequent but annoying and are no longer a concern. I've got a generator which can support an extended outage as well. My solution is awesome and does exactly what *I* need. It actively protects about ~20 AC devices.
@@keithmonahan629 So you are suggesting that you have a legitimate need to use all devices simultaneously during a power outage and that they happen for that length of time, often enough to bother? I would just move to a different area before tolerating that kind of basic utility outage... or... wait for it... get out of the house more ? :)
Love this. I live in an area with frequent power outages, so I built an online double conversion UPS using a power factor correcting charger/converter, a pair of AGM batteries, and a quality pure sine wave inverter. From that I run my NAS, POE switch (which powers wifi access points and surveillance cameras), PC running Blue Iris, and my home theater (except amplifiers). This is the way to get the cleanest power to my audio components and television display, and there's never a flicker in the power supply.
+1! Retired broadcast engineer myself. I do miss it, even hanging off a tower at 3am changing light bulbs on what ended up being the coldest night of the year
I work in Event Tech and we also use UPS devices to make sure that our temporary network and computers does not shut down if there is a power outage (aka someone unplugged the wrong cable), for computers we really like to use the option to connect the UPS to the connected PC so that the Computer can safely shutdown and here comes a BIG downside on the APC UPS, they use an RJ50 connector for USB so that you have to order a separate RJ50 to USB Cable which will take a few weeks to arrive, previously this cable was included with the UPS but for environmental reasons it is no longer included and you need to message them and they will send it to you (for free) but it will take a few weeks to arrive. If they really cared about the environment they would just put a USB Type B or USB Type C connector onto their devices so that the customer can use any spare USB cable to connect to the UPS. So my advice for everybody that want to add a UPS to their computer: get a UPS with a real USB connection and not the APC stuff which requires a special cable you can not buy local.
Yeah, no kidding. I lost one of my cables (well, it's in a box somewhere around here), and looked for a replacement. $20 for a stupid 6-ft cable, when I have a big bag full of USB cables just sitting here collecting dust.
I wanted to buy a new home UPS from APC but, at least in India, they have stopped providing any communication enabled models for general home use. The ones that do have USB interface cost 3 times more. It's stupid. I hope they reverse this decision.
My SUA1500 has a regular type B connector. Maybe it's just newer models or lower-end models which have the weird connector. Mine does have the nonstandard serial port, though.
@@eDoc2020 All of my APCs are older, 2005 on up, all had the RJ45 "serial" port and came with the RJ-to-USB cable. I think they are the high end ones, Back-UPS Pro 1500 or 2000 ($250-300).
@@d00dEEE I believe Back-UPS pro is prosumer and Smart-UPS is more professional oriented. Looking at their website the current Smart-UPS units without Ethernet have regular type B ports but the ones with Ethernet unforgivably have type A ports. Traditionally the Back-UPS was fully "dumb" (my 1999 version doesn't even have a microcontroller) and you needed the Smart-UPS if you wanted the computer connectivity.
Great advice here, and it sounds like a lot of hands on experience! Had a few of the APC 2200VA rack mounted units, they've been great; we switched over to the next generation of 3kVA 2U units and a couple of Eaton ones too; we always buy batteries from 3rd parties (not in sleds) and switch them out, it takes 30-35mins per unit or an extra £200 if you want them in sleds - well worth the time investment!
I recently was upgrading the IT infrastructure for my home back in India, which involved new batteries for the UPS and a proper Synology NAS for storage. We have always used power products from APC because their quality has been excellent. From small UPS es to full home inverters. However, recently we faced a problem with an old UPS and had to buy a new unit. It was disturbing to know that APC is not selling any UPS, in India at least, with a USB communication option. The ones available cost about 3 times more, which stops making sense in a home environment. USB interface for auto shutdown commands should be standard in every power backup device. It would cost barely a few dollars in the BoM, and the advantages are so obvious. And then just last week, due to a strike, our house was without mains power for almost 36 hours. The main home inverter lasted about 16 hours (Yay to LED lights), and then the UPS which was handling my network stack lasted an hour more. Thanks to the USB interface, the drives were unmounted and all services stopped as soon as the battery level went critical. Also a big thumbs up to Synology software, the APC UPS from 15 years ago was plug and play! I plan to write about this in more detail on my blog later, if someone is more interested. :)
I've had an UPS sitting at the bottom of my rack for almost 10 years now. It protects my desktop (not really needed, but hey why not), my big ESXi machine and some other stuff like KVM switch, LED monitor and ofcourse the core switch of my rack. Power quality here in the Netherlands is good, so I've had 5 power outages in the past almost 10 years. It too has an NMC, so I can look at logs and have it communicate with the PCNS on my ESXi machine.
Thank you for this. I recently got a Synology NAS and accidentally disconnected it the other day when re-wiring my network. It sent me quite the nasty gram when it came online telling me to not unplug it again!
Yes ups units are great! We have 6 of the 60k eaton units at our main building. Then a bunch of the apc xl3000 units at around 25 other locations. Nice thing about the commercial apc is there is usually a connector on the vack the allows you to double/ triple the battery capacity.
VRLA(the batteries you showed) have a recommended storage temperature of 77F +/- 5F. Every 15 degrees F over 82F typically reduces your battery life by 50%.
As briefly mentioned, if you have a standby generator, you can generally get by with much smaller UPS devices as you only need to cover the load for 30-60 seconds. Aside from the UPS supplying my desktop with a 750w PSU and a bunch of smaller loads, the remaining 5-6 UPS units around the house are generally smaller 225w units (powering tv, switches, router, security system, etc). My desktop ups is a CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD 1,000w pure sine wave and its done great for a couple years.
Great Video ! Had an UPS hooked up when the wind picked up and the lights flickered and had to reset the clocks. But the UPS left me online and connected ! Timothy Lipinski
There is a guy that has been designing small support devices for radio stations for a long time and he made a product that supplied power to the rack and had a UPS and wall power input. Watches for a UPS output issue and would switch to normal AC automatically. A bit pricey for a home or home office. Henry Engineering. Some guys make a simple relay-in-a-box that can do the same thing without the cool intelligence built into the Henry unit. These boxes typically have the relays held ON all the time and that is kind of a failure mode in itself so I have avoided...
Speaking as someone who had designed and deployed critical power systems, you always have to account for inrush as things come back online. That is where in a large facility having smart power distribution (plug strips) allows for timed delay of what turns on in a rack on power resumption/power up. For the home user, it is important to understand the difference in line-interactive (reactive) and true dual-conversion (always on) UPSs. I will say that most of the UPS manufacturers seem to do their level best at obfuscating the true technology of their UPS by changing what the call their "technology", etc. True Dual-conversion is the way to go if at all possible. APC is a good brand however, there are many like CyberPower and my favorite Opti-UPS and I have all 3 in my home. To give an idea about what a UPS can do for you in the home is that I have a now 13 year old Samsung smart TV that I have not needed to replace, as it still has excellent picture quality. The 55 inch screen has only 2 dead pixels because it has lived its whole life on a UPS. The side benefit is that my TV continues to work for hours after the power goes out because the network and TV are both on UPSs.
Very true. This is exactly why I went with a SurgeX SX-1115-RT professional surge protector as it incorporates inrush power protection as well as inductance-based surge protection along with line conditioning. I haven't paired it up with any type of a UPS yet as the systems I'm running are not critical and no harm would be done if the power were to go out while in operation, but I'm probably going to add an online UPS here soon just for the fun of it.
I bought the smaller UPS you had on the floor by the wall, the 900va/480w model. It ended up not being enough, I had to go back and get the $240 1500va/900w model that I tried to avoid buying in the first place lol. It is much nicer though and it shows 530w peak consumption from my PC which explains why my 480w was alarming out.
The new lithium battery APC units are a lot lighter and double the life of the battery, but right now they're 3x the cost... And I think the term your dad was looking for was whether the UPS is "online" or "standby".
The oscillating UPS story sounds like an inrush current problem. Major issue when you add a multitude of equipment on a single UPS. The 50% rule helps, but use an Ammeter to determine the inrush of your rack to develop a solution. Staged turn on circuits help to cascade rather than avalange the inrush currents.
Yeah; 50% rule is typically adequate, but if you do something like throw a ton of spinning hard drives on a system connected to a UPS, and they're not connected to devices with staggered spinup, that initial surge can be pretty large.
I have the APC Backups 1500 VA since gaming PCs wouldn't get away with anything smaller and having the runtime to finish an online multiplayer match, and safely powering my gaming rig off is a must. I also have the 900VA model to power the Fiber optic converter box and gateway for hours on end.
I've only ever used APC as my UPSes, ever since I did a hardware evaluation for the Defense Information Systems Agency in 1993. In my personal life, I've only ever replaced the batteries on these units with spares from Batteries Plus. I have always taken the unit in, they know how to pull the old battery, they know exactly where on the shelf the replacements are found, they swap the battery out while you wait, and then you go home with what amounts to a fresh UPS! I have my first rack mount APC UPS now, and I need to buy batteries for it. For the first time, I will need to find out what the replacement batteries are, and where I can buy them online. But I'm certain it won't be too hard, because I know APC has gotten good at this thing over the decades.
BTW, 100% of my UPS systems came from when I used to work at Batteries Plus Bulbs. Customers, usually small business customers, would come in and for them to be recycled. We don't have a way to recycle the UPS itself, so we would take the SLA batteries out and add those to our SLA and SLI recycling pallets and throw the rest of the unit into the dumpster. When I got them, I would take the batteries out and load the UPS into my car at the first opportunity. Then I would use my employee discount to buy new high-rate SLA batteries to put into them. Good times, good times. I recently just bought my first new UPS. The one it's replacing is an extremely old one that I use for my homelab and network equipment, but I still have many UPS systems that are very old.
Another alternative for small setups is building your own ups, there is very good hardware like OpenUPS when you run your devices at 12 V, it even improves the Efficiency a lot, so less heat and more runtime 😉
@@diegoweb900 127V are a bit more work, most power supplies ran even on dc, so you can build an online ups with dc, but it is much more difficult, so i would use a 12V power supply like picosupply, i even use this on my home server, it increasese the efficancy of the server rack, because the switches and poe injectors are even on 12 V
Sadly, the software quality of the APC products is below the line. I've also had numerous hardware failures that were not at all graceful shutdowns. They do warrant the product and swap it out, but it didn't do what it's supposed to do.
I have an APC xl1400 that I garbage picked in 2004. I found that two 100 am hour batteries wired externally get 10 years of service. Wired it into my critical circuit at the distribution panel in my house. (with a permit)
I had a bad experience with APC so switched to Cyberpower, but only use consumer UPSs, not commercial ones. Something I think you missed is that you should use inline UPS so that there is no switchover time.
I've had bad experiences with all of them. It's really more about features at this point, and one thing you should keep in mind is "cheap is cheap for a reason". CyberPower UPSes should be replaced entirely when their battery fails, no exceptions. The reason for this is they use a yellow glue to keep heavier components from getting knocked off the internal circuit boards instead of a more robust silastic compound for high-temp applications. The glue starts off as an insulator but gradually turns brown and becomes electrically conductive as it ages, and this speeds up with the application of heat (and the hottest components are also the heaviest, so guess where that glue goes?) I've got about a hundred UPSes or so in use in my organization and I have seen this issue in every single one of them, even their higher-end "pure sinewave" models. But don't take my word for it, if you have an old cyberpower unit lying around crack it open and check the glue's resistance with a multimeter. All brands should be cycled out every 3-5 years if they are used in a dirty power environment, or areas with frequent power outages/brownouts. The fact is UPSes have a lot of components that wear out with more frequent use besides batteries and those are not checked by the UPS' self test function. I had an APC fail with an "AVR Relay Weld" error due to dirty power but it tested fine after being powered back up, only to die again a few days later.
@@GeerlingEngineering Yanking the battery when it's on line power is perfectly safe with that kind of UPS. A "smart" Red Shirt Dad would short across the battery connector.
@@eDoc2020 My Dad was going to do it until he saw my face behind the camera-I've never done it on a running UPS, whereas he's probably done it 50 times by now. I'm less confident my UPS's abilities ;) I guess it should be a saying: "You can pull your own UPS's batteries, but don't yank someone else's without their permission"
I was taught to NEVER use F1 to F2 adapters in any UPS because of possible shorting risk due to extra exposed terminals and F1 terminals on the batteries not rated for higher dump current. I never questioned it because if you ordered the right batteries, it was never a problem.
Haha! I ordered new batteries for the UPS I had for about 6 years now. Never used them and decided it is time to make my home lab a bit more resilient. Funny coincidence that you post a video just after my batteries have arrived. Unfortunately I realized that I need a USB to RJ45 cable to configure them. -_- So another two weeks until I can continue on that front. oops ... ^^
if you are going to re-pack a battery cartridge, which is NOT manufacturer recommended, always keep the same battery Ah rating and type. the chargers are specific to the Ah rating
FYI, VA don't always equal UPS wattage ratings. I have some UPS that are 2000VA but have a 1540W rating while others are 2000VA and 2000W. All are pure sinewave and require 120V 20A circuits.
I once had one in our home. That baby was a waste of time and space. It was back in the late 90's so imagine what battery was used back in the days, and the weight of it. The weight was like the weight of a car in a box. I believe it was similar design to a car battery. Power was never out, but who knows! Now days with people using electric cars its hot stuff to have as a power backup. In a way it is stupid because you can get used electric car battery and it will be cheaper and can contain much more power then you need to run entire home.
Greetings from Southern Missouri! Idea for a video.. UPS for a home backup review.. I am trying to figure out a battery or battery bank to provide lights (led) for a small welding/fabrication shop until I get construction power for my house 100 feet away.. (I hope to have it by summer.. I hear Howell/Oregon is slow in installation..) I just want about 150 watts for 8 hours in an unheated shop.. I plan on using LEDs, so 150 watts is overkill. I will run my welder and top off the batteries every time I am welding. If I need more than 8 hours of lights, I am making enough money to run the generator all night. lol
I thought size doesn't matter? :) One thing that's hard to find in the specs or non existent. Will it turn back on after a power failure after you deplete the batteries. I bought 6 different ups models and none of them turned back on after the batteries drained. Apparently a lot of the under $200 ups devices don't do that simple thing. Amazon / APC / cyberpower were some of the brands...
All my APCs have turned back on after a power outage. However, you also have to set the devices to power back on. On PCs, this is found in the BIOS settings.
Craig, same issue with finding units that power back on after a power outage and the battery depletes. I still need to make a trip into the lab/office if the power goes out for an extended period of time just to power back on the UPS (has nothing to do with if the devices connected are configured to power back on after a power outage if the UPS doesn't supply them power in these situations). Once the power goes out, and the battery drains, the UPS shuts off and requires manual intervention to power back on.
They are recommending way more than the average person needs, for most people keep your spending under a hundred dollars, mod sine wave is perecly fine, its just meant to give you time to save your work and shutdown safely ...
We were originally planning on showing it, and thought it was good during the shoot, but then while I was editing I noticed there was a phone number in it... it was a bit too hard to try blurring just the phone number (since it appeared in 4 places). :(
Great video! I grew up in the midwest.... I had a basement as a kid. So, you know where I am coming from when I ask this. What are you doing with that rack on the floor in your basement?! haha
Cool Video & I Would agree Very Good Advice IMO I think most folks seam to over look The UPS but i would argue they are very important to any mid to high end computer &/or server ! I have several that we use 3 small ones & 2 APC 2kw But i also run 3-4 Servers Custom Built (SuperMicro) 2 & 4U as well as a high end custom gaming /work pc with multiple displays Same 10gb Switch as i saw in your video as well as a PfSense (Dell R210II) as we tend to have a lot of surges and what i would call dirty power in my little hick town !IMO Biger Is Always Better..Like Money.lol. or fun no such thing as to much..lol.
debating to get one of these. i'm upgrading the desktop setup with a kvm unit and with a ups i could auto shutdown the desktops and let the kvm unit run on the ups battery for a while until power returns where auto startup can be done
I've had problems with APC units cooking batteries. The rack mount units seem to be alright for their internal batteries but the ones we have are often cooking (plastic on the batteries melting) the external batteries. I'd love to find one with a decent charger.
My "UPS" is the fact, that my Nas, as well as all computing I dont do is running on an old Laptop, which still has a working battery... But once I need more than my two hard drives, ill prolly need to buy a UPS...
omg people use them for their heating and air conditioner? that must be huge!, I just bought a couple because we constantly have power outages, sometimes for a few seconds, or less than an hour, so now my internet stays on and I can shut my desktop down without the shock of sudden power loss
They should do a test to see if there is a higher chance that the battery in the UPS catches fire than actually losing data from a current fluctuation.
Spoiler alert, batteries of this quality don’t catch fire very often. The possibility of drives corrupting due to brown outs is very high. I speak from anecdotal experience, but also as a cell tech that truly knows the volatility of subpar lithium ion cells. I’ve started a few iPhone batteries myself 😂 I gotta ask, do you know anything about onboard timing crystals? Because all computers have them which means they prefer things to be on time. When the power flickers on and off, the timing becomes impossible. This very phenomenon is abusive toward electronics and wears these timing crystals out faster than their expected wear and tear. So the general consensus is that it would be a waste of time to perform the test you requested
At least with APC, batteries should be replaced every 3-5 years. Smart-UPS are generally double-conversion (which provide the pure sine wave). Also, the first 2 numbers in the serial # is the year that the part was made.
I inherited the "Cyber Power". PR1500LCDRT2U. Can you modify this to add even more batteries in series? Like drill a hole add more wire to more and more batteries?
Just a bit disappointing that the shirt colours are not kept consistent between the channels, which of course means that your Dad should wear a Hawaii shirt with all the colours :-) Nevertheless I really like this different take and would love to see more !
Haha, it's honestly hard to remember what shirts I wore when. Weird problems I never thought I'd encounter-trying to diversify my wardrobe a bit. In the 'old days', I would just grab the shirt on the top of the pile. Now I have to think 'did I just record my last video in this shirt? If so, go to next shirt...'
@Geerling Engineering i have one doubt in my country(india) operated voltage is 230 V AC 50hz. I'm using microtek legend 1600U, VA /wattage rating 1600VA/ 950W . It is a 24 V battery ( with two 12V, 7AH series connection). The problem is during mains power cut ups turn into battery mode but output is 170V AC only. And it is not giving any backup please explain what is the main reason for this . I checked battery voltage which is rated 24v
Good-day & question; ??Is there a solar generator that provides the USB signal to turn-off a computer just like modern uninterruptible power supplies??
Is that a bypass humidifier mounted on the side of the duct? If so, have you considered putting something between your HVAC and your rack to protect from water in the event of a leak? Just a thought.
Yes, considered doing that, but so far haven't :) I actually had the condensate pump fail and luckily since the rack is up off the floor only the rubber wheels got wet. But I do want to figure out a better way to protect the rack, since it's now filling up a bit!
@@GeerlingEngineering a surprising number of server rooms I’ve encountered have been situated below restrooms or kitchens, some even had exposed drain and/or supply water pipes. Others have had air handling units that, of course, feature condensation. In every case I had to convince the clients to address the potential disaster before it became an actual disaster. It’s a lot cheaper that way.
Wouldn't a full-height rack be a better choice where you can put those devices MUCH higher up off of the ground? Any type of a flood event there could easily put all of that low-sitting equipment in that rack under several feet of water.
Curious on repopulating an RBC carrier (sled?) with batteries. Some of the vendors carry both the nominal 12v, 7.2aH batteries. I have also noticed some UPS (apc) can apparently use AGM 7.2v batteries, but this are typically 9aH and require a charging/monitoring controller that is different than non AGM batteries... have you found that the APC SM* series UPS' will accept AGM batteries? Is there a way to determine this by model/sn? - thanks
Changing a UPS is not possible in your config and i had this before myself. That was the point i bought a ATC (automatic transfer switch) to bypass/switch off the UPS from the LOAD and i can maintenance the UPS independently from the LOAD.
For the home setup we were standing in front of, it's not mission critical to have zero downtime-I'm okay with taking down the network for a full unit swap when the time comes. At the radio stations, there is a full transfer switch for the whole-building backup (along with a pretty hefty generator that can power everything indefinitely, given enough fuel). At the station where we did the last video, the budget doesn't allow for the whole-building UPS, but in that case there's more than one audio chain, so the audio can be routed through a separate rack, while we service the main one.
But what do you do when you need to service the automatic transfer switch? The problem just reoccurs later. If downtime to change the UPS in unacceptable you should really be using systems with redundant power inputs.
@@eDoc2020 in this case you need to have a PDU with 2 feeds or even a rack with 2 separate PDUs For me tho, an ATS won’t died that quickly. But the my UPS must be turned off to replace the battery.
@@eDoc2020 at first i had a no name generic ups from a friend, which had no battery quick disconnect, and the batteries where inside with a top lid. was also very small like 250va?? dunno long time. Now i have a APC Smart-UPS 1500 and altho it should be a hotswap battery. it turns off everthing. so maybe something is funky there (it was second hand) but it works great with the battery, like nothing is wrong. now for 6 years
if the only reason I want an ups is to prevent my pc from burning as I live in an area with frequent quicknpower outages and brown outs... to stabilize the energy (i don'tcare about battery time, 2 minute would be enough I guess, as i would shut down the pc if the power went out for some time). Then what specs should i be looking for?
It's depenon your PC load, most of PC are 750W, you can choose a 2kva online UPS built-in battery, online UPS switch time 0ms, backup time 5~10 minutes, protect your PC no problem.
Thanks for this video. I would very much like a video about UPS for raspberry pis 🙂 . I wonder: can I use a regular USB power bank as a UPS for my RPI 4B ? (Provided the wattage is there)
How come when I test my UPS by turning off the breaker, the computer stays on...but, when the power goes out due to a storm, the UPS shuts off and along with the computer.
During a storm, it could be possible that a power surge or brownout conditions are triggering some sort of protection circuit on your UPS. One thing you could consider is adding a whole-home/whole-building surge protection device, and see if that helps.
I just want an affordable, consumer-grade online/double-conversion UPS so I can get some clean power for my stereo. Having to buy a huge $1,000 monstrosity for something like this is just silly. Why does this not exist? Something the size/style of that little APC unit shown at 1:20, for example.
Serious question and comment - I have a need to power 240V motor (36 amp draw) for about 90 seconds at a time but the rest of the time the load sits at about 2 amps. All the UPS suppliers I spoke to will not recommend any inductive load like a motor on a UPS. Can you recommend one for inductive loads? I was told that a "4 quadrant inverter" is what I need to find. And my comment is that since Schneider bought APC the desktop grade UPS's are just junk. I buy many of them and I have had a very high return rate on the smaller models. I've started using Cyberpower and so far so good. Such a shame, they were the go-to for UPS's
Where did your 240V motor data come from, e.g., 240V @ 36A for 90 seconds. A 4-quadrant inverter will not solve overloading from motor starting currents. You really need to hook a PQ analyzer up to your motor and capture the entire start/running cycle. Motor is generic term applied to lot of different motor types in lots of different equipment. What is this specific motor doing? How do you know its 36A @ 90 seconds? 🤔
@@alwarner5787 I measured it with a Fluke 435-II over a 3 day period. The 36 amp I speak of is FLA and was recorded as the max value over the 30 second sampling period of the recording. It's obviously of much shorter duration than that but I am erring on the side of caution. The motor is a pair of centrifugal sump pumps that alternate. They run about 90 seconds at about 7 amps. The end goal is a "tesla powerwall" kind of backup power. The load is too low for even the smallest of the diesel generators I operate and while a residential grade generator would work, they would require a LP tank which is not ideal in this remote location. This search is frustrated by the issue that all the "powerwall" vendors i.e. Enphase, Generac, Tesla, et al. only know the residential solar panel/powerwall ,with readily accessible internet template. My application is isolated and industrial and this is outside their area of knowledge. The 4-quandrant inverter was suggested by the EE dept of an integrator as a direction to pursue.
@@OldePhart Maybe something like the Outback Radian system could work. The GS8048A can handle 33 amps output continuously or 50 amps for 5 seconds. Outback seems highly regarded in off-grid communities so reliable operation in isolated locations shouldn't be an issue.
@@OldePhart I know all about four quadrant inverters, and they have peak current limiters and conduction current limiters just like any other inverter. You need to see the maximum peak current and its duration. Most inverters will current limit @ ~ 2.4-2.7 x the RMS continuous rating @ 8ms (1/2 cycle at 60Hz). However, thats not your only problem, e.g., the extremely low motor starting power factor is another.
I have a laser printer at home that makes the lights flicker for a half second whenever I turn it on. It is supposed to only draw 6A @ 120V max. But I suspect it is doing more at startup. I was thinking about putting a UPS in between the wall socket and the printer to act as a capacitor or something like that. How big of a UPS do you think I need for the lights not to flicker?
A person in the know knows you don't put Laser Printers on UPS's unless you have a very big UPS with a big transformer. LP's have way to higher inrush current and faults most out.
@@BestSpatula Go find something like the older APC SmartUPS series in a 2-3KVA and try lifting the sucker. You are looking for the units that have a big, iron-cored transformer. Another way to tell, turn them on and when the UPS self-tests, it will go to battery and you should hear a good thump as the transformer comes in from its other mode (not getting into the other modes and magic the APC's do here).
@@bentheguru4986 I think only the line-interactive Smart-UPSes do that. I've pretty much given up on those in favor of the Smart-UPS Online (dual-conversion) units. MUCH more reliable (in terms of the electronics).
@@BestSpatula I have used a few of other brand double -onlines and they all suffer from small, high frequency transformers thus droop when really needed, can't handle in-rush loads. Other side is though, why have a washing machine on a UPS?
The one in my (Jeff's) basement is an ECHOGEAR 20U rack, and I've added ventilated spacer panels on the right side mostly to prevent errant balls the kids kick around in the basement from making it to my equipment inside the rack :)
1: APC is junk. Get a better brand, like Tripp Lite or Cyberpower. 2: you MUST use a "true sinewave" UPS for audio systems. ALL UPS that are not use a "stepped" or "modified" sine wave that is extremely noisy and will damage transformers in any type of equipment.
I've been looking to get a UPS for my home rack. I have one for my desktop computer that I use daily, a good 1500VA deal with a 900W output. My server uses 1100W though. When you guys say "aim for 50% to 75% load", do you mean total wattage vs the VA listing (so a 2500VA UPS would be ideal for my 1100W server?), or do you mean voltage usage vs. UPS output (a 1200W output UPS would be inadequate for my 1100W server because it's drawing 90% of the output wattage)?
I think they mean real watts. If your server actually uses 1100w then you probably want at least a 2200VA backup. But those are too big to plug into a regular 15a 120v outlet. However, I can't imagine anyone using a 1100w server in a home rack. Its power supply may be rated for that much load but chances are the components inside can't actually draw that much.
Typically the larger UPSes (like the one in my rack) has a different plug that should only be used in a 20A circuit (with a horizontal and vertical prong, plus ground-at least in the US/NEMA). Once you go beyond that, there are UPSes that require 30, 40, 50, or higher amp circuits, and some are direct wired, others may have plugs more commonly seen on home appliances.
I have a computer I use as a server with a 1300 watt power supply, but actual load is only going to be 600 watts if you add up the components. The power supplies shouldnt be overloaded either. However if it is one of those dell servers, maybe they use more, idk. You need at least 12 gauge wire instead of 14 for a 20 amp 120 circuit
i could use some help choosing betwen 2 APC units 1. BGM1500B and 2. BR1500MS2 i have heard of some of the APC and cyberpower units catching fire is why i am asking any info would be appreciated thank you
Unfortunately in terms of catching fire, it's rare that it's identified as a real design flaw, and can be tricky to trace to any particular manufacturer. There have been a few models in the past that are more prone to failure (sometimes even fires!), but I don't believe the two models you mentioned are in that list.
Yes, but note that any extra plugs / extensions you add between a device and the wall (UPS included) will reduce by a small amount the power you can safely draw without heating up the connections too much. And many power strips aren't that great, I would only do this with one from a reputable manufacturer, UL listed, etc. If you use a power strip and plug the UPS into that, make sure you're not also using an extension cord. Typically people will plug a UPS directly into the wall, though, since it can draw a bit of power if it's charging its battery and powering equipment at the same time.
most ups, after remove battery or battery faulty, can not re-start the ups ,even there is power input. this design reduce reliable. I have met it. there is no output, when there is power input.
Thanks for the video. I've owned a dozen APC UPS's for years and used to swear by them. APC more "intelligent" firmware now actively prevents you from buying higher capacity batteries, which are often cheaper and better quality than the APC packs, as well. It locks runtime to the model number, instead of using a cutoff voltage, or proper battery management of consumption. No amount of factory default, or calibration fixes this issue. This is on units from about 2010 or later. I've since migrated to Victron Energy inverter/charger/xfer switch products out of the Netherlands. They are completely programmable for SLA vs LifePo4, cutoff voltages, charge voltages, absorption times, etc. They are more expensive but infinitely more useful to protect a larger DIY home network.
some models of new apc units are still programable. i have a br1000g-in and it works perfectly fine with a 25.6v 12ah lifepo4 pack i made. the oem replacement battery is more expensive than the cells i bought. it also runs 45min at 300w load and stops discharging when the battery gets to 20v , it stops charging at 29v and flats at 27v. the charger board on this model is separate from main board and it has a jumper to set the battery charging current from 1.25amp to 3.75amp because this model has an optional external battery pack that takes the total capacity to 27ah 24v leadacid. i have been using it with the lifepo4 pack i made for almost 5-6yrs now and it is still holding up full charge.
other models like the srv1kuxi lets you set charging current and program battery capacity. although they have no lifepo4 setting so the run time will never be accurate. lifepo4 has no pukert effect so all the whr energy is available for use.
@@KuntalGhosh Thanks for your message. I'm super happy with the Victron Energy solution I've implemented. It's considerably more expensive, but gives me access to all the nerdy stats, live current/voltages, charge/discharges rates, ability to adjust charge current to 80A, direct support for lifepo4, etc. I've added a manual transfer switch to my house, and can power my whole house heating, refrigerator, etc through the same solution. You can tell this is the "professional" ways to do things. I'm done with APC handicapping their products.....
Thanks for the information, which is both interesting and troubling to learn, but it almost seems like you are wasting money by putting philosophy over need?
How long do you really need the home network to stay up if everything on it is also on battery power, and how much power does, say a router and handful of switches really use? I ask this already having a pretty good idea, and recognizing that most things that I'd continue using on battery power, don't even run through the switches, instead wifi.
Also, why have you owned a dozen UPS? Insufficient site surge protection killing them?
While need is a subjective term in our first world problems lives, I've wanted a more resilient setup for years. My home network is extensive, includes (3) desktops, (4) access points, using a mostly filled 16-port switch, ~(30) wifi devices. My steady state usage ballparks 375 watts. Prior to this setup, I needed (4) UPS's to have any barely tolerable amount of time. I was using a 1500, 600, and (2) 350s. Bought over the years as things grew. With battery replacements happening every 3-5 yrs. If I start powering off devices, I can get this down to about 70 watts for the critical things. Do the math on what size solution you need to last about 12 hours. Redesigning this allowed me to not only scale and integrate, but also add things like hvac heater support, refrigerator, lights, TVs, etc. Power outages are fairly infrequent but annoying and are no longer a concern. I've got a generator which can support an extended outage as well. My solution is awesome and does exactly what *I* need. It actively protects about ~20 AC devices.
@@keithmonahan629 So you are suggesting that you have a legitimate need to use all devices simultaneously during a power outage and that they happen for that length of time, often enough to bother? I would just move to a different area before tolerating that kind of basic utility outage... or... wait for it... get out of the house more ? :)
Love this. I live in an area with frequent power outages, so I built an online double conversion UPS using a power factor correcting charger/converter, a pair of AGM batteries, and a quality pure sine wave inverter. From that I run my NAS, POE switch (which powers wifi access points and surveillance cameras), PC running Blue Iris, and my home theater (except amplifiers). This is the way to get the cleanest power to my audio components and television display, and there's never a flicker in the power supply.
Can you do more radio station Tech videos pls, good quality tour videos that actually talk about the tech and not just an overview is rare.
We plan on it! Hopefully will visit the studio and tower site at least a couple times in the coming months.
+1! Retired broadcast engineer myself. I do miss it, even hanging off a tower at 3am changing light bulbs on what ended up being the coldest night of the year
I work in Event Tech and we also use UPS devices to make sure that our temporary network and computers does not shut down if there is a power outage (aka someone unplugged the wrong cable), for computers we really like to use the option to connect the UPS to the connected PC so that the Computer can safely shutdown and here comes a BIG downside on the APC UPS, they use an RJ50 connector for USB so that you have to order a separate RJ50 to USB Cable which will take a few weeks to arrive, previously this cable was included with the UPS but for environmental reasons it is no longer included and you need to message them and they will send it to you (for free) but it will take a few weeks to arrive. If they really cared about the environment they would just put a USB Type B or USB Type C connector onto their devices so that the customer can use any spare USB cable to connect to the UPS. So my advice for everybody that want to add a UPS to their computer: get a UPS with a real USB connection and not the APC stuff which requires a special cable you can not buy local.
Yeah, no kidding. I lost one of my cables (well, it's in a box somewhere around here), and looked for a replacement. $20 for a stupid 6-ft cable, when I have a big bag full of USB cables just sitting here collecting dust.
I wanted to buy a new home UPS from APC but, at least in India, they have stopped providing any communication enabled models for general home use. The ones that do have USB interface cost 3 times more. It's stupid. I hope they reverse this decision.
My SUA1500 has a regular type B connector. Maybe it's just newer models or lower-end models which have the weird connector. Mine does have the nonstandard serial port, though.
@@eDoc2020 All of my APCs are older, 2005 on up, all had the RJ45 "serial" port and came with the RJ-to-USB cable. I think they are the high end ones, Back-UPS Pro 1500 or 2000 ($250-300).
@@d00dEEE I believe Back-UPS pro is prosumer and Smart-UPS is more professional oriented. Looking at their website the current Smart-UPS units without Ethernet have regular type B ports but the ones with Ethernet unforgivably have type A ports.
Traditionally the Back-UPS was fully "dumb" (my 1999 version doesn't even have a microcontroller) and you needed the Smart-UPS if you wanted the computer connectivity.
This is a VERY good presentation. The information and thefather/son dynamics are a huge plus. Good job, and I hope you guys make more videos.
love these vids, wish i had this kind of relationship with my father
us moment
Me too! 😕
Great advice here, and it sounds like a lot of hands on experience! Had a few of the APC 2200VA rack mounted units, they've been great; we switched over to the next generation of 3kVA 2U units and a couple of Eaton ones too; we always buy batteries from 3rd parties (not in sleds) and switch them out, it takes 30-35mins per unit or an extra £200 if you want them in sleds - well worth the time investment!
I recently was upgrading the IT infrastructure for my home back in India, which involved new batteries for the UPS and a proper Synology NAS for storage.
We have always used power products from APC because their quality has been excellent. From small UPS es to full home inverters. However, recently we faced a problem with an old UPS and had to buy a new unit. It was disturbing to know that APC is not selling any UPS, in India at least, with a USB communication option. The ones available cost about 3 times more, which stops making sense in a home environment.
USB interface for auto shutdown commands should be standard in every power backup device. It would cost barely a few dollars in the BoM, and the advantages are so obvious.
And then just last week, due to a strike, our house was without mains power for almost 36 hours. The main home inverter lasted about 16 hours (Yay to LED lights), and then the UPS which was handling my network stack lasted an hour more. Thanks to the USB interface, the drives were unmounted and all services stopped as soon as the battery level went critical. Also a big thumbs up to Synology software, the APC UPS from 15 years ago was plug and play!
I plan to write about this in more detail on my blog later, if someone is more interested. :)
I've had an UPS sitting at the bottom of my rack for almost 10 years now. It protects my desktop (not really needed, but hey why not), my big ESXi machine and some other stuff like KVM switch, LED monitor and ofcourse the core switch of my rack. Power quality here in the Netherlands is good, so I've had 5 power outages in the past almost 10 years. It too has an NMC, so I can look at logs and have it communicate with the PCNS on my ESXi machine.
Your dad is a professional. Great voice and demeanor. Congrats, your future looks bright.
Thank you for this. I recently got a Synology NAS and accidentally disconnected it the other day when re-wiring my network. It sent me quite the nasty gram when it came online telling me to not unplug it again!
Yes ups units are great! We have 6 of the 60k eaton units at our main building.
Then a bunch of the apc xl3000 units at around 25 other locations.
Nice thing about the commercial apc is there is usually a connector on the vack the allows you to double/ triple the battery capacity.
The Network card that you got can also work with SNMP. That's one great way of monitoring your equipment. Nice video!
VRLA(the batteries you showed) have a recommended storage temperature of 77F +/- 5F. Every 15 degrees F over 82F typically reduces your battery life by 50%.
As briefly mentioned, if you have a standby generator, you can generally get by with much smaller UPS devices as you only need to cover the load for 30-60 seconds. Aside from the UPS supplying my desktop with a 750w PSU and a bunch of smaller loads, the remaining 5-6 UPS units around the house are generally smaller 225w units (powering tv, switches, router, security system, etc). My desktop ups is a CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD 1,000w pure sine wave and its done great for a couple years.
Great Video ! Had an UPS hooked up when the wind picked up and the lights flickered and had to reset the clocks. But the UPS left me online and connected ! Timothy Lipinski
That has to be RSJ's favourite sign!
Danger - Welding Area
There is a guy that has been designing small support devices for radio stations for a long time and he made a product that supplied power to the rack and had a UPS and wall power input. Watches for a UPS output issue and would switch to normal AC automatically. A bit pricey for a home or home office. Henry Engineering. Some guys make a simple relay-in-a-box that can do the same thing without the cool intelligence built into the Henry unit. These boxes typically have the relays held ON all the time and that is kind of a failure mode in itself so I have avoided...
Speaking as someone who had designed and deployed critical power systems, you always have to account for inrush as things come back online. That is where in a large facility having smart power distribution (plug strips) allows for timed delay of what turns on in a rack on power resumption/power up.
For the home user, it is important to understand the difference in line-interactive (reactive) and true dual-conversion (always on) UPSs. I will say that most of the UPS manufacturers seem to do their level best at obfuscating the true technology of their UPS by changing what the call their "technology", etc. True Dual-conversion is the way to go if at all possible. APC is a good brand however, there are many like CyberPower and my favorite Opti-UPS and I have all 3 in my home. To give an idea about what a UPS can do for you in the home is that I have a now 13 year old Samsung smart TV that I have not needed to replace, as it still has excellent picture quality. The 55 inch screen has only 2 dead pixels because it has lived its whole life on a UPS. The side benefit is that my TV continues to work for hours after the power goes out because the network and TV are both on UPSs.
Very true. This is exactly why I went with a SurgeX SX-1115-RT professional surge protector as it incorporates inrush power protection as well as inductance-based surge protection along with line conditioning. I haven't paired it up with any type of a UPS yet as the systems I'm running are not critical and no harm would be done if the power were to go out while in operation, but I'm probably going to add an online UPS here soon just for the fun of it.
I bought the smaller UPS you had on the floor by the wall, the 900va/480w model. It ended up not being enough, I had to go back and get the $240 1500va/900w model that I tried to avoid buying in the first place lol. It is much nicer though and it shows 530w peak consumption from my PC which explains why my 480w was alarming out.
The new lithium battery APC units are a lot lighter and double the life of the battery, but right now they're 3x the cost...
And I think the term your dad was looking for was whether the UPS is "online" or "standby".
The oscillating UPS story sounds like an inrush current problem. Major issue when you add a multitude of equipment on a single UPS. The 50% rule helps, but use an Ammeter to determine the inrush of your rack to develop a solution. Staged turn on circuits help to cascade rather than avalange the inrush currents.
Yeah; 50% rule is typically adequate, but if you do something like throw a ton of spinning hard drives on a system connected to a UPS, and they're not connected to devices with staggered spinup, that initial surge can be pretty large.
I have the APC Backups 1500 VA since gaming PCs wouldn't get away with anything smaller and having the runtime to finish an online multiplayer match, and safely powering my gaming rig off is a must. I also have the 900VA model to power the Fiber optic converter box and gateway for hours on end.
I've only ever used APC as my UPSes, ever since I did a hardware evaluation for the Defense Information Systems Agency in 1993. In my personal life, I've only ever replaced the batteries on these units with spares from Batteries Plus. I have always taken the unit in, they know how to pull the old battery, they know exactly where on the shelf the replacements are found, they swap the battery out while you wait, and then you go home with what amounts to a fresh UPS!
I have my first rack mount APC UPS now, and I need to buy batteries for it. For the first time, I will need to find out what the replacement batteries are, and where I can buy them online. But I'm certain it won't be too hard, because I know APC has gotten good at this thing over the decades.
BTW, 100% of my UPS systems came from when I used to work at Batteries Plus Bulbs. Customers, usually small business customers, would come in and for them to be recycled. We don't have a way to recycle the UPS itself, so we would take the SLA batteries out and add those to our SLA and SLI recycling pallets and throw the rest of the unit into the dumpster. When I got them, I would take the batteries out and load the UPS into my car at the first opportunity. Then I would use my employee discount to buy new high-rate SLA batteries to put into them. Good times, good times.
I recently just bought my first new UPS. The one it's replacing is an extremely old one that I use for my homelab and network equipment, but I still have many UPS systems that are very old.
Once again guys , wonderful exposure to "what's out there ".😊. The only topic that wasn't discussed was the price for a rack mount unit .
price acording to KVA
Another alternative for small setups is building your own ups, there is very good hardware like OpenUPS when you run your devices at 12 V, it even improves the Efficiency a lot, so less heat and more runtime 😉
Is there anything like OpenUPS for 127V? So we could run our PC's with a DIY UPS.
@@diegoweb900 127V are a bit more work, most power supplies ran even on dc, so you can build an online ups with dc, but it is much more difficult, so i would use a 12V power supply like picosupply, i even use this on my home server, it increasese the efficancy of the server rack, because the switches and poe injectors are even on 12 V
Sadly, the software quality of the APC products is below the line.
I've also had numerous hardware failures that were not at all graceful shutdowns. They do warrant the product and swap it out, but it didn't do what it's supposed to do.
Great video, awesome father son dynamic. Very cool, very informative
I have an APC xl1400 that I garbage picked in 2004. I found that two 100 am hour batteries wired externally get 10 years of service. Wired it into my critical circuit at the distribution panel in my house. (with a permit)
You guys have the same smile. I wonder if that was so with baby Jeff.
Jeff’s brother looks even more like his Dad, and in some early baby pictures you can’t tell the difference between the brothers!
From, Jeff’s Mom 😊
I had a bad experience with APC so switched to Cyberpower, but only use consumer UPSs, not commercial ones. Something I think you missed is that you should use inline UPS so that there is no switchover time.
I've had bad experiences with all of them. It's really more about features at this point, and one thing you should keep in mind is "cheap is cheap for a reason". CyberPower UPSes should be replaced entirely when their battery fails, no exceptions. The reason for this is they use a yellow glue to keep heavier components from getting knocked off the internal circuit boards instead of a more robust silastic compound for high-temp applications. The glue starts off as an insulator but gradually turns brown and becomes electrically conductive as it ages, and this speeds up with the application of heat (and the hottest components are also the heaviest, so guess where that glue goes?) I've got about a hundred UPSes or so in use in my organization and I have seen this issue in every single one of them, even their higher-end "pure sinewave" models. But don't take my word for it, if you have an old cyberpower unit lying around crack it open and check the glue's resistance with a multimeter.
All brands should be cycled out every 3-5 years if they are used in a dirty power environment, or areas with frequent power outages/brownouts. The fact is UPSes have a lot of components that wear out with more frequent use besides batteries and those are not checked by the UPS' self test function. I had an APC fail with an "AVR Relay Weld" error due to dirty power but it tested fine after being powered back up, only to die again a few days later.
I saw a test of the APC units showing the sine waves to be sub par.
The Geerling Dream Team, nice! 👍
Aw Awesome! It's Blue Shirt Dad! When we gonna get Red Shirt Dad btw?
Red Shirt Dad would've yanked the battery live :)
@@GeerlingEngineering Yanking the battery when it's on line power is perfectly safe with that kind of UPS. A "smart" Red Shirt Dad would short across the battery connector.
@@eDoc2020 My Dad was going to do it until he saw my face behind the camera-I've never done it on a running UPS, whereas he's probably done it 50 times by now. I'm less confident my UPS's abilities ;)
I guess it should be a saying: "You can pull your own UPS's batteries, but don't yank someone else's without their permission"
I was taught to NEVER use F1 to F2 adapters in any UPS because of possible shorting risk due to extra exposed terminals and F1 terminals on the batteries not rated for higher dump current. I never questioned it because if you ordered the right batteries, it was never a problem.
Haha! I ordered new batteries for the UPS I had for about 6 years now. Never used them and decided it is time to make my home lab a bit more resilient. Funny coincidence that you post a video just after my batteries have arrived. Unfortunately I realized that I need a USB to RJ45 cable to configure them. -_- So another two weeks until I can continue on that front. oops ... ^^
As usual, an excellent video! Thanks for posting.
if you are going to re-pack a battery cartridge, which is NOT manufacturer recommended, always keep the same battery Ah rating and type. the chargers are specific to the Ah rating
It's also very important that they identical batteries and made on the same day/week if at all possible.
good info, thanks for bringing in your dad!
Interesting content. I'd love to hear more.
Excellent video. Subbed.
FYI, VA don't always equal UPS wattage ratings. I have some UPS that are 2000VA but have a 1540W rating while others are 2000VA and 2000W. All are pure sinewave and require 120V 20A circuits.
Good questions...
Thks again great DAD
I once had one in our home. That baby was a waste of time and space. It was back in the late 90's so imagine what battery was used back in the days, and the weight of it. The weight was like the weight of a car in a box. I believe it was similar design to a car battery. Power was never out, but who knows! Now days with people using electric cars its hot stuff to have as a power backup. In a way it is stupid because you can get used electric car battery and it will be cheaper and can contain much more power then you need to run entire home.
Very informative and knowledgeable. Thank you!
Nice video, thanks for sharing :)
I didn't even realize you had a second channel
Yep! Glad you found us :)
Greetings from Southern Missouri! Idea for a video.. UPS for a home backup review.. I am trying to figure out a battery or battery bank to provide lights (led) for a small welding/fabrication shop until I get construction power for my house 100 feet away..
(I hope to have it by summer.. I hear Howell/Oregon is slow in installation..)
I just want about 150 watts for 8 hours in an unheated shop.. I plan on using LEDs, so 150 watts is overkill. I will run my welder and top off the batteries every time I am welding. If I need more than 8 hours of lights, I am making enough money to run the generator all night. lol
I thought size doesn't matter? :)
One thing that's hard to find in the specs or non existent. Will it turn back on after a power failure after you deplete the batteries. I bought 6 different ups models and none of them turned back on after the batteries drained. Apparently a lot of the under $200 ups devices don't do that simple thing. Amazon / APC / cyberpower were some of the brands...
All my APCs have turned back on after a power outage. However, you also have to set the devices to power back on. On PCs, this is found in the BIOS settings.
Craig, same issue with finding units that power back on after a power outage and the battery depletes. I still need to make a trip into the lab/office if the power goes out for an extended period of time just to power back on the UPS (has nothing to do with if the devices connected are configured to power back on after a power outage if the UPS doesn't supply them power in these situations). Once the power goes out, and the battery drains, the UPS shuts off and requires manual intervention to power back on.
A high quality sine wave 1500VA UPS is going to cost you north of $500 U.S.
They are recommending way more than the average person needs, for most people keep your spending under a hundred dollars, mod sine wave is perecly fine, its just meant to give you time to save your work and shutdown safely ...
My “broke person’s UPS” is literally a 20,000 mAh powerbank connected to power my raspberry pi in case of a blackout lol
If it works, it works!
Would you say this Battery Plus is the...Micro Centre of batteries?
What was the point in showing the phone if you're just going to blur the whole screen
We were originally planning on showing it, and thought it was good during the shoot, but then while I was editing I noticed there was a phone number in it... it was a bit too hard to try blurring just the phone number (since it appeared in 4 places). :(
Great video!
I grew up in the midwest.... I had a basement as a kid. So, you know where I am coming from when I ask this. What are you doing with that rack on the floor in your basement?! haha
Cool Video & I Would agree Very Good Advice IMO I think most folks seam to over look The UPS but i would argue they are very important to any mid to high end computer &/or server ! I have several that we use 3 small ones & 2 APC 2kw But i also run 3-4 Servers Custom Built (SuperMicro) 2 & 4U as well as a high end custom gaming /work pc with multiple displays Same 10gb Switch as i saw in your video as well as a PfSense (Dell R210II) as we tend to have a lot of surges and what i would call dirty power in my little hick town !IMO Biger Is Always Better..Like Money.lol. or fun no such thing as to much..lol.
You have to name it after something that needs a slogan like, “we already inspected it once”😂
could you do a followup video about portable power station, it's something i'm looking for and I might buy one in a few months
Hopefully yes!
debating to get one of these. i'm upgrading the desktop setup with a kvm unit and with a ups i could auto shutdown the desktops and let the kvm unit run on the ups battery for a while until power returns where auto startup can be done
I got a free dual conversion 3KVA APC a while ago. Sadly, it stopped working a few months later.
Nice vid! thanks!
I've had problems with APC units cooking batteries. The rack mount units seem to be alright for their internal batteries but the ones we have are often cooking (plastic on the batteries melting) the external batteries. I'd love to find one with a decent charger.
My "UPS" is the fact, that my Nas, as well as all computing I dont do is running on an old Laptop, which still has a working battery... But once I need more than my two hard drives, ill prolly need to buy a UPS...
Pretty high end UPS systems
omg people use them for their heating and air conditioner? that must be huge!, I just bought a couple because we constantly have power outages, sometimes for a few seconds, or less than an hour, so now my internet stays on and I can shut my desktop down without the shock of sudden power loss
They should do a test to see if there is a higher chance that the battery in the UPS catches fire than actually losing data from a current fluctuation.
Spoiler alert, batteries of this quality don’t catch fire very often. The possibility of drives corrupting due to brown outs is very high.
I speak from anecdotal experience, but also as a cell tech that truly knows the volatility of subpar lithium ion cells.
I’ve started a few iPhone batteries myself 😂
I gotta ask, do you know anything about onboard timing crystals? Because all computers have them which means they prefer things to be on time. When the power flickers on and off, the timing becomes impossible.
This very phenomenon is abusive toward electronics and wears these timing crystals out faster than their expected wear and tear.
So the general consensus is that it would be a waste of time to perform the test you requested
At least with APC, batteries should be replaced every 3-5 years. Smart-UPS are generally double-conversion (which provide the pure sine wave). Also, the first 2 numbers in the serial # is the year that the part was made.
normally, home and office PC use backup UPS, this types UPS is cheap, if want better, online UPS is enough.
Coming from an enterprise environment, if you leave bad batteries in older APC units too long (like months) you will damage the UPS.
What would keep these from being used in an off-grid solar setup?
I inherited the "Cyber Power". PR1500LCDRT2U.
Can you modify this to add even more batteries in series? Like drill a hole add more wire to more and more batteries?
Just a bit disappointing that the shirt colours are not kept consistent between the channels, which of course means that your Dad should wear a Hawaii shirt with all the colours :-) Nevertheless I really like this different take and would love to see more !
Haha, it's honestly hard to remember what shirts I wore when. Weird problems I never thought I'd encounter-trying to diversify my wardrobe a bit.
In the 'old days', I would just grab the shirt on the top of the pile. Now I have to think 'did I just record my last video in this shirt? If so, go to next shirt...'
@Geerling Engineering i have one doubt in my country(india) operated voltage is 230 V AC 50hz. I'm using microtek legend 1600U, VA /wattage rating 1600VA/ 950W . It is a 24 V battery ( with two 12V, 7AH series connection). The problem is during mains power cut ups turn into battery mode but output is 170V AC only. And it is not giving any backup please explain what is the main reason for this . I checked battery voltage which is rated 24v
Good-day & question; ??Is there a solar generator that provides the USB signal to turn-off a computer just like modern uninterruptible power supplies??
Is that a bypass humidifier mounted on the side of the duct? If so, have you considered putting something between your HVAC and your rack to protect from water in the event of a leak? Just a thought.
Yes, considered doing that, but so far haven't :)
I actually had the condensate pump fail and luckily since the rack is up off the floor only the rubber wheels got wet. But I do want to figure out a better way to protect the rack, since it's now filling up a bit!
@@GeerlingEngineering a surprising number of server rooms I’ve encountered have been situated below restrooms or kitchens, some even had exposed drain and/or supply water pipes. Others have had air handling units that, of course, feature condensation. In every case I had to convince the clients to address the potential disaster before it became an actual disaster. It’s a lot cheaper that way.
@@ADHJkvsNgsMBbTQe True; better to spend a few hundred bucks now than replace tens of thousands later!
Wouldn't a full-height rack be a better choice where you can put those devices MUCH higher up off of the ground? Any type of a flood event there could easily put all of that low-sitting equipment in that rack under several feet of water.
Curious on repopulating an RBC carrier (sled?) with batteries. Some of the vendors carry both the nominal 12v, 7.2aH batteries. I have also noticed some UPS (apc) can apparently use AGM 7.2v batteries, but this are typically 9aH and require a charging/monitoring controller that is different than non AGM batteries... have you found that the APC SM* series UPS' will accept AGM batteries? Is there a way to determine this by model/sn? - thanks
hi nice video i like it i have a question so if my computer equipment's need around 830W how much wat i need on my UPS
question what kind of ups can i used for my laser printer 10amp unit, can u help thanks!!
Was looking into getting the APC Gaming UPS. But don't have enough reviews on them
You can try to buy UPS from our company
@@KimiDai-t6r what company is this
Changing a UPS is not possible in your config and i had this before myself.
That was the point i bought a ATC (automatic transfer switch) to bypass/switch off the UPS from the LOAD and i can maintenance the UPS independently from the LOAD.
For the home setup we were standing in front of, it's not mission critical to have zero downtime-I'm okay with taking down the network for a full unit swap when the time comes.
At the radio stations, there is a full transfer switch for the whole-building backup (along with a pretty hefty generator that can power everything indefinitely, given enough fuel). At the station where we did the last video, the budget doesn't allow for the whole-building UPS, but in that case there's more than one audio chain, so the audio can be routed through a separate rack, while we service the main one.
But what do you do when you need to service the automatic transfer switch? The problem just reoccurs later. If downtime to change the UPS in unacceptable you should really be using systems with redundant power inputs.
@@eDoc2020 in this case you need to have a PDU with 2 feeds or even a rack with 2 separate PDUs
For me tho, an ATS won’t died that quickly. But the my UPS must be turned off to replace the battery.
@@marchagen3893 What sort of UPS do you have? I don't think I've seen any which need to be turned off to change the battery.
@@eDoc2020 at first i had a no name generic ups from a friend, which had no battery quick disconnect, and the batteries where inside with a top lid. was also very small like 250va?? dunno long time.
Now i have a APC Smart-UPS 1500 and altho it should be a hotswap battery. it turns off everthing. so maybe something is funky there (it was second hand) but it works great with the battery, like nothing is wrong. now for 6 years
if the only reason I want an ups is to prevent my pc from burning as I live in an area with frequent quicknpower outages and brown outs... to stabilize the energy (i don'tcare about battery time, 2 minute would be enough I guess, as i would shut down the pc if the power went out for some time). Then what specs should i be looking for?
It's depenon your PC load, most of PC are 750W, you can choose a 2kva online UPS built-in battery, online UPS switch time 0ms, backup time 5~10 minutes, protect your PC no problem.
SOHO UPS do business like Lexmark & Cannon printers. The battery replacement costs more than the UPS unit itself
Get your UPS!
Thanks for this video. I would very much like a video about UPS for raspberry pis 🙂 . I wonder: can I use a regular USB power bank as a UPS for my RPI 4B ? (Provided the wattage is there)
what ups is good for gaming pc, 850w.. it's true that i need a line pure interactive wave?
How come when I test my UPS by turning off the breaker, the computer stays on...but, when the power goes out due to a storm, the UPS shuts off and along with the computer.
During a storm, it could be possible that a power surge or brownout conditions are triggering some sort of protection circuit on your UPS. One thing you could consider is adding a whole-home/whole-building surge protection device, and see if that helps.
I just want an affordable, consumer-grade online/double-conversion UPS so I can get some clean power for my stereo. Having to buy a huge $1,000 monstrosity for something like this is just silly. Why does this not exist? Something the size/style of that little APC unit shown at 1:20, for example.
Serious question and comment - I have a need to power 240V motor (36 amp draw) for about 90 seconds at a time but the rest of the time the load sits at about 2 amps. All the UPS suppliers I spoke to will not recommend any inductive load like a motor on a UPS. Can you recommend one for inductive loads? I was told that a "4 quadrant inverter" is what I need to find.
And my comment is that since Schneider bought APC the desktop grade UPS's are just junk. I buy many of them and I have had a very high return rate on the smaller models. I've started using Cyberpower and so far so good. Such a shame, they were the go-to for UPS's
Where did your 240V motor data come from, e.g., 240V @ 36A for 90 seconds. A 4-quadrant inverter will not solve overloading from motor starting currents. You really need to hook a PQ analyzer up to your motor and capture the entire start/running cycle.
Motor is generic term applied to lot of different motor types in lots of different equipment. What is this specific motor doing? How do you know its 36A @ 90 seconds? 🤔
@@alwarner5787 I measured it with a Fluke 435-II over a 3 day period. The 36 amp I speak of is FLA and was recorded as the max value over the 30 second sampling period of the recording. It's obviously of much shorter duration than that but I am erring on the side of caution. The motor is a pair of centrifugal sump pumps that alternate. They run about 90 seconds at about 7 amps.
The end goal is a "tesla powerwall" kind of backup power. The load is too low for even the smallest of the diesel generators I operate and while a residential grade generator would work, they would require a LP tank which is not ideal in this remote location.
This search is frustrated by the issue that all the "powerwall" vendors i.e. Enphase, Generac, Tesla, et al. only know the residential solar panel/powerwall ,with readily accessible internet template. My application is isolated and industrial and this is outside their area of knowledge. The 4-quandrant inverter was suggested by the EE dept of an integrator as a direction to pursue.
@@OldePhart Maybe something like the Outback Radian system could work. The GS8048A can handle 33 amps output continuously or 50 amps for 5 seconds. Outback seems highly regarded in off-grid communities so reliable operation in isolated locations shouldn't be an issue.
@@eDoc2020 I will take a look, thanks.
@@OldePhart I know all about four quadrant inverters, and they have peak current limiters and conduction current limiters just like any other inverter. You need to see the maximum peak current and its duration. Most inverters will current limit @ ~ 2.4-2.7 x the RMS continuous rating @ 8ms (1/2 cycle at 60Hz). However, thats not your only problem, e.g., the extremely low motor starting power factor is another.
I have a laser printer at home that makes the lights flicker for a half second whenever I turn it on. It is supposed to only draw 6A @ 120V max. But I suspect it is doing more at startup. I was thinking about putting a UPS in between the wall socket and the printer to act as a capacitor or something like that. How big of a UPS do you think I need for the lights not to flicker?
A person in the know knows you don't put Laser Printers on UPS's unless you have a very big UPS with a big transformer. LP's have way to higher inrush current and faults most out.
@@bentheguru4986 I have the same problem with my washing machine. What UPS would you recommend ?
@@BestSpatula Go find something like the older APC SmartUPS series in a 2-3KVA and try lifting the sucker. You are looking for the units that have a big, iron-cored transformer. Another way to tell, turn them on and when the UPS self-tests, it will go to battery and you should hear a good thump as the transformer comes in from its other mode (not getting into the other modes and magic the APC's do here).
@@bentheguru4986 I think only the line-interactive Smart-UPSes do that. I've pretty much given up on those in favor of the Smart-UPS Online (dual-conversion) units. MUCH more reliable (in terms of the electronics).
@@BestSpatula I have used a few of other brand double -onlines and they all suffer from small, high frequency transformers thus droop when really needed, can't handle in-rush loads. Other side is though, why have a washing machine on a UPS?
Nice! What model Network Rack is that?
The one in my (Jeff's) basement is an ECHOGEAR 20U rack, and I've added ventilated spacer panels on the right side mostly to prevent errant balls the kids kick around in the basement from making it to my equipment inside the rack :)
A central UPS needs to be a household setup. One outlet for each room ha ha
Plenty of people effectively have that. It's just very expensive.
I bought one from apc for my Music Production system , but it produces humming noise , is it normal for ups to produce noise .
1: APC is junk. Get a better brand, like Tripp Lite or Cyberpower. 2: you MUST use a "true sinewave" UPS for audio systems. ALL UPS that are not use a "stepped" or "modified" sine wave that is extremely noisy and will damage transformers in any type of equipment.
DIY and build one CRAZY bigger.
I've been looking to get a UPS for my home rack. I have one for my desktop computer that I use daily, a good 1500VA deal with a 900W output. My server uses 1100W though. When you guys say "aim for 50% to 75% load", do you mean total wattage vs the VA listing (so a 2500VA UPS would be ideal for my 1100W server?), or do you mean voltage usage vs. UPS output (a 1200W output UPS would be inadequate for my 1100W server because it's drawing 90% of the output wattage)?
I think they mean real watts. If your server actually uses 1100w then you probably want at least a 2200VA backup. But those are too big to plug into a regular 15a 120v outlet. However, I can't imagine anyone using a 1100w server in a home rack. Its power supply may be rated for that much load but chances are the components inside can't actually draw that much.
Typically the larger UPSes (like the one in my rack) has a different plug that should only be used in a 20A circuit (with a horizontal and vertical prong, plus ground-at least in the US/NEMA).
Once you go beyond that, there are UPSes that require 30, 40, 50, or higher amp circuits, and some are direct wired, others may have plugs more commonly seen on home appliances.
I have a computer I use as a server with a 1300 watt power supply, but actual load is only going to be 600 watts if you add up the components. The power supplies shouldnt be overloaded either. However if it is one of those dell servers, maybe they use more, idk. You need at least 12 gauge wire instead of 14 for a 20 amp 120 circuit
i could use some help choosing betwen 2 APC units 1. BGM1500B and 2. BR1500MS2 i have heard of some of the APC and cyberpower units catching fire is why i am asking any info would be appreciated thank you
Unfortunately in terms of catching fire, it's rare that it's identified as a real design flaw, and can be tricky to trace to any particular manufacturer.
There have been a few models in the past that are more prone to failure (sometimes even fires!), but I don't believe the two models you mentioned are in that list.
Hi, I have a question. Can I plug my UPS to a power strip?
Yes, but note that any extra plugs / extensions you add between a device and the wall (UPS included) will reduce by a small amount the power you can safely draw without heating up the connections too much. And many power strips aren't that great, I would only do this with one from a reputable manufacturer, UL listed, etc.
If you use a power strip and plug the UPS into that, make sure you're not also using an extension cord. Typically people will plug a UPS directly into the wall, though, since it can draw a bit of power if it's charging its battery and powering equipment at the same time.
What do you use for your gaming PC, assuming you have a gaming PC. Saw parts in the background.
Check out this video; parts are all listed in the description! ruclips.net/video/-ovitckJldU/видео.html
@@JeffGeerling Thank you,
most ups, after remove battery or battery faulty, can not re-start the ups ,even there is power input. this design reduce reliable. I have met it. there is no output, when there is power input.
I have a system with a Ryzen 9 5900X, Rtx 3070 ti with an 850w psu
What kind of UPS would you recommend?
Probably one that's 1500VA - both APC and CyberPower make some good tower UPSes that aren't too large.