Where were you when I was in middle school? I and probably millions of others could've used such easy to understand yet deep explanations of basic principles.
No doubt. Stuff I struggled to understand in school has become crystal-clear watching this dude's channel. Partly because he makes it interesting, and uses great diagrams and photos. Brilliant communicator as well.
This is one of the best videos I've seen. Good image, good lighting, good backdrop, good knowledge, good speaking, clean environment, no overwhelming music, and an interesting subject. You also answered some of my questions on this subject that no other video could answer. Good job.
What did the blind man tell the musician when ask how to find Radio City Music Hall? Practice, practice, practice, this young man certainly did practice.
It is puzzling to see how stupid this solution is. Here in India we have cheap pure sine wave ups. You can connect lead acid batteries to it. You can connect the batteries in parallel for more capacity. The SINE-WAVE inverter costs about 5000-6000 Rupees or about 80 USD and 150Ah lead acid batteries cost about 13500 Rupees or 180 USD. This set up powers your devices like a UPS(Uninterrupted Power Supply ) and automatically recharges the battery when the power is restored. Maybe these devices are not readily available in the US that's why this kind of setup is needed. Because our country has frequent power cuts(2-3 time a week), this device is quite common here.
photovoltaic/solar thermal technician here: BRAVO 👍 i love deep cycle lead acid batteries. yes i install lithium phosphate. but this is what i always tell people they can set up for emergencies. that inverter can also be hooked up to the car with a full tank of gas and can approx 72 hours before tank goes empty. instead of charging from outlet get a used 350W solar panel and get the power for free. just cause of this video i am slapping that subscribe button 💥👍👍👍
I connected an inverter to my Hybrid's starter battery and its pretty awesome. Everytime I depleated the starter battery the Running battery would charge it. If the running battery gets depleated then the engine goes on and charges the running battery. Perfect for off the grid living
Just to nitpick lead acid technology a bit - as an amateur radio operator it is a well researched and practiced topic for myself. There are two major families of lead-acid battery: Flooded and Sealed (SLA). Since we are discussing Flooded lead acid batteries in this video, there are three major subtypes within the Flooded family: SLI (Starter), Hybrid/Dual Purpose (this includes “marine deep cycle”), and the true Deep Cycle batteries (this group typically consists of traction batteries like Golf Cart, Forklift, etc.). It is important for people to understand that despite the name of “marine deep cycle” such batteries are not true deep cycles and their absolute safe discharge limit is only 50%, or 12.0VDC under load, (but still far “deeper” than the 10-15% limit of SLI) whereas the true deep cycle batteries may be safely discharged by up to 80%, or about 11.55VDC under load, many hundreds of times. The greatest bang for the buck in true deep cycle batteries can be found in the ubiquitous 6V and 8V Golf Cart batteries and they will hold up to many deep discharge cycles and are about as inexpensive per amp-hour and service life as one can get and are available almost anywhere (a typical 6V battery will have anywhere from 180-240 amp-hours capacity and a pair wired in series will give you 12V at that 180-240 amp-hour rating) and at around 65 lbs (~30kg) each they can be moved fairly easily (but do buy a set of lift straps to give you a proper handle by which to carry them). You can fairly reliably differentiate between true deep cycle batteries and the hybrid/dual-purpose (e.g. “marine deep cycle”) batteries by the presence or absence of a cranking amps specification as it is extremely uncommon for true deep cycle batteries to list a CCA or MCA cranking amps specification on their label whereas hybrid/dual-purpose and SLI batteries will always list cranking amps. Since the battery used in this example is a hybrid/dual-purpose battery with a safe discharge limit of 50% the load should be disconnected when the battery voltage UNDER LOAD falls below 12.0VDC as that is the 50% threshold for a 12V nominal lead acid battery under load - but be aware that most inverters do not automatically shutoff until the voltage drops to 10.5VDC, which corresponds to 100% discharged and will destroy such batteries very quickly. The other major family is the Sealed Lead Acid family, which includes AGM and Gel Cell batteries, of which the AGM battery is generally more desirable for backup uses where high amp draws may be present and AGM batteries do not require specialized chargers to the same extent as Gel Cells do (most any modern multi-stage charger or fixed 13.8VDC float charger that can charge a flooded cell can be used to charge an AGM battery - but do avoid older/cheap unregulated chargers as they are not suitable for any sort of sealed lead acid battery). Gel Cell batteries do require specialized charging parameters and thus need specialized chargers and are not as capable of arraign high amperage loads in discharge. Sealed lead acid batteries also afford the benefit of releasing no explosive gasses during normal use parameters which is often advantageous for indoor use or confined spaces nor do they require regular servicing to keep their electrolyte level safely above the plates. If using/charging a flooded lead acid battery indoors it should be charged in a large open room, preferably using a smart charger that either shuts off upon complete charging or while steps the float voltage down to around 13.2VDC once the battery is full. This greatly reduces the production of explosive gasses and reduces electrolyte water loss. If the battery is being charged indoors, install Water Miser vent caps on the battery vents to help recapture water droplets that would otherwise be lost due to aerosolization (due to the bubbling of hydrogen and oxygen during charging) - not only will this largely eliminate the acrid smell during charging (especially if fast charging) but it also greatly reduces the aerosolized sulfuric acid that can wreck havoc on nearby electronics. And most importantly when using flooded batteries, especially indoors, check electrolyte levels regularly and top up with distilled or deionized water as needed - nothing ruins one’s day quite like an exploded battery dispersing it’s sulfuric acid electrolyte around the room due to a spark forming or plates buckling because the electrolyte level fell below the level of the plates. Also, it’s best to top up batteries after a complete charge since the electrolyte level can vary a bit during charging as the bubbles displace the electrolyte. Hopefully some folks will find the above useful as I have an entire presentation on the topic of converting an amateur radio station entirely over to 12V (not just the transceivers, which is trivial, but also the PC, monitors, and lighting (no AC inverters used, though several well filtered DC-DC converters are used to create odd voltages like the 19VDC required by the pair of 27” IPS LCD monitors; the NUC-style PC, on the other hand, was chosen specifically for its ability to run directly off ~12VDC). 73 de KW4EK
A few other additions... Though very lightly addressed anyone seriously interested in how to determine the effective amp-hour capacity of a given lead-acid battery under a given level of load will want to brush up on the Peukert Effect as the affect of load versus relative accessible capacity is a nonlinear function. Also, something to be aware of with the vast majority of the battery capacity “fuel” gauges available on eBay, Amazon, etc., is that most do not report a proper percentage in terms of real battery capacity rather they use a simple linear function, mapping 10.5-12.6VDC to 0-100% in a linear manner. This might not seem like a big deal until you realize lead acid battery capacity versus voltage is also highly nonlinear. For example from a fully charged state of 12.6VDC to 12.0VDC (0.6V down from full) represents 50% of the battery’s capacity, yet most such gauges will report 75-80% at that point. By the time the voltage has dropped another 0.4VDC to 11.6VDC you have used up 80% of the battery’s actual capacity but the gauge will still indicate around 55% (yet, at this point even true deep cycle batteries are already at their 80% discharge limit). The problem stems from the fact that the upper 1.0VDC (12.6-1.6VDC) represents 80% of a lead acid battery’s capacity yet the bottom 1.1VDC (11.6-10.5VDC) represents the final 20% of the battery’s capacity. So with most of these gauges you will actually want to discontinue use at the 75-80%, or 12.0VDC under load, threshold for hybrid/dual-purpose type batteries (having a safe discharge limit if 50%) or at the 50%, or 11.6VDC, threshold under load if using true deep cycle batteries (having a safe discharge limit of up to 80%) if you wish to preserve battery service life and not destroy the battery prematurely.
I found your info easy to read and very informative! I own a set of 12v marine deep cycle batteries in my solar power system. Not the best as your comment states, but cheap and easy to come by! I have had the voltage drop to 11.9 a few times under load, bit they usually hover in 12.4 or 12.6 right in the morning before the sun comes up. Then it's back to full again. My controllers are cheap, and hold the voltage at 14.4 whole it's sunny. They are not mppt. The batteries are in a ventilated garage. And the charge amps never go above 9 to 10 and across the two 60 amp hour batteries. The panels are a mix, totalling in about 190 watts. Little system, but had been fun playing with it! I love radio! Been thinking about taking the test someday and getting on the air. In the meantime I just have my baofeng toy, and listen in from time to time. We have 3 repeaters in the area. I also listen to CB here. There is a local group that gets on everyday and just talks about whatever. Real proper though, none of that channel 6 mumbo jumbo. Cool stuff. Anywho, have a good Tuesday or Wednesday! Thanks again for the read!
Wow so much info! Thanks! My father has been servicing car batteries for as long as I can remember and it's awesome to see much of what he learned empirically (and eventually passed on to me) being explained in a much more scientific way.
Great video. One suggestion, anytime you're messing with lead acid batteries, use safety glasses. The most dangerous hydrogen buildup can be inside the battery. Those grids inside the batter can have an errant wire that can short the battery internally when the wire wears through the separator. I've worked at a lead smelter, an automotive repair shop, and a major battery manufacturer. I've seen the top blow off more than a few batteries. When charging a battery, heed the following: Make sure the battery charger is turned off when you first hook it up. Keep your face away from the top of the battery. Use safety glasses (how much do you value your sight?).
I have ALWAYS wanted to know why car batteries die so easily after the lights are left on but are fine for years just starting the car, even in cold weather. Great video, as always.
It's because regular car batteries don't like being discharged less than 80%. Even "deep-cycle" ones only are supposed to go down to 50%. Going down to 0% basically plus all the surface lead into the electrolyte. When it reforms, it doesn't do it perfectly, causing both lead dust at the bottom (that can build up higher than the gap down there and short the plates) and can cause whisker like shorts between plates. But mostly it causes lead sulfate crystals to form which reduce the original capacity. There are lots of devices and concoctions that try to reverse that, but nothing really to get them back to new. When the starter is used, it only discharges to say 95% and the recharges back to 100 as the car runs on the alternator. More crystals form in the cold, which is why a lot of batteries go dead in the winter, especially when left low for a couple days.
I have a Renault Megane from 2005 and it have a interesting feature that i noticed other car makers didn't bothered to set even on newer cars. When i lock the car,the lights go off too,also go off if i don't lock the car after 10 minutes, if the engine is not started. I may guess this was made to avoid the battery to be discharged if someone forgets the lights on.
@@watchinstuff5726 And then there are batteries that are simply shit. The batteries from Bosch are of this last kind. Had several. Each and every one of them I never really cycled, as the lights in my car are under key lock and when I shut the engine they go out too, but it suffice a pair of mild winters to have the need to change the damn thing. Compare them to batteries from Fiamm. The last I had lasted me six years of intense cold winters on the same diesel car the Bosch shit themselves on for much less.
@@watchinstuff5726 Yes, correct. But also because regular car batteries are starter batteries, with very slim cells intended for large current draw capacity but not for long times, in contrast with the thick plates of a deep cycle or marine battery
My favorite part of this setup is converting AC to DC to charge the battery, then inverting DC to AC to provide wall power from the battery, then converting AC back to DC for the electronic devices.
could probably install a 12vdc ati power supply in his moms pcs, and wire it straight up to the 12v battery or to a 12v wall adapter. only problem is making the power supply uninterrupted.
There is one more cycle in there because the ups also has a battery. I think he could've bypassed the inverter by just having the car battery connected to the battery in the ups
@@andrewk8636 Yes, you could possibly just wire the larger 12 volt battery in parallel to the smaller battery in the UPS. This would allow the UPS to run the equipment for much longer durations. But if the UPS does not have the option to silence the beeping that could get kind of annoying and it might overheat. Alternatively you could just have the inverter turned on 24/7, and run the whole setup off the inverter constantly, and just take the UPS completely out of the setup. The battery and inverter combination is essentially a UPS by itself.
@@tekneiq True but our customers know less. "I don't know what I drive or what the problem is but I need the correct part and it better be cheap." "Do you have a 4 cyl or V6?" "It has 2 pipes in the back, that a V6 right?", or "I have a V4". "Do you have a EX, LX, DX, SE, or EX-L?", "there aint not letters on the back, I have the regular one.", "Do you have 2WD, 4WD, or AWD", "I have 2WD", brings back part because I sold them the "wrong part", turns out they have 4WD but leave it in 2WD so that is what they told me. I could go on with these all day, but you get the idea.
The best part about this project: you did it for your mom. That's awesome! The best thing we can do with our gifts is to share them with other people, especially those we love.
In the developing world we use these set ups to keep a whole office in operation with several computers , USB chargers and even fans running all day on a couple of largish deep cycle batteeies . Used to be marginal on the old cathode ray tube monitors but flat screens save the day. Auto switching from mains/trickle charge to battery on power failure helps keep the switch seamless.
I have had an identical setup for well over 4-5 years now, cycled at least 20 times when the power went out and the batteries are still perfectly fine. But I keep on top of maintenance.
7:27 I love how the numbers are the exact same font and size as when they are displayed when you click on "identify monitors" within Windows. Nice attention to detail!
@Hell's favorite Salty Masshole what I learned after so much time wire managing workstations is all that matters is that none of the wires get kicked or pulled. It’s fine I wouldn’t do much except maybe a couple Velcro wraps to keep the big stuff bundled together.
For everyone suggesting that he attach a massive battery to the UPS ... it was supplied by his mums workplace and i bet he doesn’t want to muck about with it.
And, the inverter inside this UPS was only designed to give a few minutes of backup. It has no cooling whatsoever, and honestly it's not a great inverter (as evidenced by its buzzing noise when running). It would not be happy running for 8 hours straight, I imagine.
Also that line of APC UPSs is a pain in the butt to work on; the cables inside are really short and only tiny Chinese fingers can get in there to unplug them.
@@TechnologyConnections i have been thinking of getting a similar setup for a few years now. one thing i wonder about: why not use dc-dc converters and power the things directly that way? you might see a difference of 15-30% in power consumption.
Also, I'm pretty sure those are modified sine wave inverters. My APC UPS is a modified SW. They state in the manuals that they are designed to be enough time to save your work and shut down. This also saves your power supplies, as they typically operate warmer under load when plugged into a modified SW. I've seen a great vijeo on the difference between modified and pure; can't remember which channel. Explained it well. Pretty much everything runs hotter, motors, power supplies, ect. Only thing modified is good for IMO is incandescent light bulbs and simple fans. Speaking of which, I wonder if a large fan would clean up the sine wave?
@@shimes424 you are right, only their high end (is it xl or something like that) series are pure sine. So this is a perfectly adequate emergency backup setup... They aren't trying to go solar with it.
As a science teacher and a chemist I am impressed with the clarity of this presentation. Excellent video photos to support the audio!! It was really, really enjoyable to watch. I subscribed awhile ago and have watched other videos from this channel; all of them have been of high production quality as well.
The beauty of this setup, other than its simplicity, is that you could add additional 12v deep cycle batteries in parallel to this one to give you even more longevity.
@@MM-di5nu ...and run your electronics for a very limited amount of time (those batteries are very small, especially the ones that come in the discount Walmart UPSes). Several parallel-mounted deep cycle batteries could run her system for literally days on end.
@@JustWasted3HoursHere I know this has 3 months old, but shouldn't those addicional batteries be connected in series to improve the current instead of voltage? The inverter only works with a 12V input, so adding 24 or even more Voltage should do the opposite thing of giving more energy to devices.
Nice video. Inverters with built in automatic transfer switches and battery chargers are now readily available. Using one of those with your marine battery, or better yet a LIFEPO4 battery would basically be a large UPS. You could just eliminate the small UPS and never have to do any switching at all. Love your videos by the way. We learned a lot from the dishwasher videos and no longer use the pods. It's been an improvement and cheaper to boot, so thanks!
The irony is he could've just attached the meter to the lug on the other side of the fuse he had in the primary circuit. Of course the whole setup is unnecessary, the battery could've just been connected in parallel to the small 12v battery inside the UPS or even just replace it, the UPS already has an inverter and a charger plus the appropriate fuses and control circuitry. This might mean drilling a hole in the UPS housing but would've been a far simpler solution.
@@johnwang9914 this most times will not work as the actual output of the battery will differ from the built in battery and the ups is set to very specific expectations of what type and output the battery installed uses and it will revise to work if the battery dies not output what it is programmed to recognize, hence why it does not work off the generator because the ups considered it too dirty and is unable to clean it up enough because it's inverter is not strong enough so it just blocks it out and as he said the last time they tried it, it fried the USP. The built in inverter is not designed to handle batteries of that size and amperage, so it also would not it recharge properly as the charger would not be able to charge a deep cycle battery as it's output is far too low birth in voltage and amps and has a very high chance of just frying all the electronics in the ups. Not to mention the ups is being a backup and protection of all the electronics connected to it so tampering to it would good the warrently so if it malfunctioned it could very quickly fry three electronics connected to it or start a fire switching batteries is NOT a safe idea in anyway shape or form.
A dirt cheap 12V solar panel of 80 or 100w provides the exact voltage to charge the lead acid. I have a similar setup to yours with a used truck battery (24V 110AH) and use two panels in series. It is up 6 years now. Some devices are using DC from the system 24/7 and the inverter serves only when power is out. It never happened that the inverter reach its low voltage cut. All things are second or more hand. The panels were on a van for 7 years before I got them. The truck battery is unable to start a truck, but works well here. There is no label on the battery so I can only see what is engraved in plastic. When you under use a battery it can last way longer.
I just want to thank you for such a well done video. I followed the advise you gave here because I'm a Foreign English Teacher living in Vietnam. The power here often goes out in the summer and winter due to high power demands. It is usually back up in an hour or two. I bought a battery and a 2000W inverter. When the power goes out I can still run 2 laptops and 2 50 inch TV's for about 3 hours. They use 240VAC here so I think that helps. My inverter is rated 12DC in and 240W out. My battery back up is still working fine. Last summer I used it about 5 times and it worked like a charm. recently I purchased a EcoFlow Delta Max Solar Generator. This thing has a 2000W per hour rating. I can run my whole house on this thing. It will boil water, run an electric cooker, run a fridge, and many other things. I also mounted a 300w solar panel. I did this for longer outages. But the car battery system you show here is now a secondary or back up to the EcoFlow. I'm already planning to build a power system for a van that I will build in the future. That way my van becomes a mobile power station that I can hook up anywhere to anything. It's going to be epic. Again, thank you for the inspiration to get off my a$$ and get things done. Cheers!
Glad to know you're able to make a living making these videos. They truly are articulate, erudite and stylish productions. I also enjoy your particular sense of humour.
Thanks for posting this. I work at a radio station and needed to power remote broadcast equipment more than 300 feet from the nearest outlet for a series of high school soccer games. We tried extension cords but the voltage drop was too much for the equipment. I had watched this video months ago and I just happened to have a pair of 12V group 24 deep cycle marine batteries that I wasn't using, so I bought a 12V 2kW inverter and wired the batteries up in parallel. Problem solved! Now we have a nice clean power source for the many places we broadcast from that don't have electricity. The only drawback is that it's heavy.
I made a super-ups once sort of like this. Biggest ass marine deep cycle battery from Walmart, and I got a UPS from work that was being thrown away because its batteries died. It was some kind of 750va tripp-lite. I ran the battery leads out of the UPS and into the battery. I connected a supplemental automatic charger to the battery. I also added additional cooling to the UPS. Nod to the knowledge of the Peukert effect in your video!
I'm looking at this approach to make backup power for a propane fireplace. How did it work for you? I realize the UPS charger is undersized for battery recharging but better than nothing. If the battery is 1st fully charged, the UPS float charge should be plenty between major power losses. Too bad he didn't discuss how Peukert's law would help him and he could have touched on recommended charging rate relative to battery chemistry and C. Some limitations with his 6amp charger vs 100ah battery.
A little suggestion for anyone else considering this. This is definitely a viable option for a backup power source. A much simpler way of achieving this functionality would be to take an old computer UPS (a lot of them have pure sine wave inverters built in) and extend the internal battery cables outside the casing and connect them to an external battery bank. A lot of times you can get used UPS's for dirt cheap because they have bad batteries. Plus the UPS will handle keeping the batteries charged, and automatically switch over to the inverter when the power goes out. Some higher end UPSs even have a connection for an external battery bank already in place.
Honest question here, and I think it's related to what you're saying. I was wondering why he had to get an inverter, when he could have just connected the Marine battery in parallel to the UPS battery? I honestly don't know if I'm missing something.. Thanks.
A comment tho, not all the UPS have pure sine wave inverters, many cheap (sub $100) do not (at least from when I last looked) most cheap ones are simulated sine wave.
I literally was just typing a comment to say this when I found yours... that's what I did... mine had a large enough bay that I was able to find a battering that could sustain 500w for an hour and that's what I put in it.
Great video, love how thorough you were in determining your load and how to monitor the battery state. You came so close to calling your solution what it is, a double conversion UPS. Double conversion UPSes take the input AC, run it to a charger which charges the battery (Conversion 1), then the inverter converts the incoming power from the battery into 120V (Conversion 2). Double conversion UPSes are more expensive because the inverter and the battery charger are both online and have to be a bit beefier than their single conversion counterparts. In a power failure, the battery charger just stops providing output power to the battery. The output power never drops since the inverter continues to provide power to the load. Single conversion UPSes are more commonly referred to as "standby UPSes", these are the common UPS devices that people use at home and for their workstation computers. These devices don't run their inverter all the time and their battery charger float charges the battery to ensure it's ready on power failure. These make a characteristic "click" sound when power is lost, that's the contactor inside switching from wall input to the inverter's output. The biggest difference between double and single conversion is the state of the inverter. If it's always running, it's double conversion. If it's only running when input power is lost, it's a single conversion (standby) UPS. There is a third type of UPS, a Line Interactive UPS that is usually only used in datacenters. Line Interactive UPSes are like single conversion UPSes except they also have an automatic transformer (autoformer) that conditions the incoming power. In the event of a brownout, the autoformer adjusts the incoming line so that the output is consistent with expected voltage. If the autoformer can't make up for the brownout, then the inverter takes over and provides output power until the input power comes back within spec. The difference between a Line Interactive UPS and a double conversion UPS is that the inverter isn't always providing power, and the difference between the Line Interactive UPS and a Single conversion UPS is that the autoformer cleans the input power before it's delivered to the load.
For the cheaper home single UPS, they do protect from a brownout. They will check the input and if it is bad, will switch to battery which is actually more reliable since the other circuits don't get exposed to bad AC input like the charger.
It is puzzling to see how stupid this solution is. Here in India we have cheap pure sine wave ups. You can connect lead acid batteries to it. You can connect the batteries in parallel for more capacity. The SINE-WAVE inverter costs about 5000-6000 Rupees or about 80 USD and 150Ah lead acid batteries cost about 13500 Rupees or 180 USD. This set up powers your devices like a UPS(Uninterrupted Power Supply ) and automatically recharges the battery when the power is restored. Maybe these devices are not readily available in the US that's why this kind of setup is needed. Because our country has frequent power cuts(2-3 time a week), this device is quite common here.
@@parnavad1794 Its not so much about having a pure sine wave inverter or motor. Their generator was not able to output either the correct volts (due to old alternator) and/or the correct frequency (engine RPM). Electronics can take squarish sine waves and not be bothered, only inductive and resistive loads will so it won't do well to power an oven or heater, but electronics that utilise switching PSUs dont really care much about the wave form
Protip for folks who love overkill: Yes, you can run a boatload of batteries in parallel with this kind of setup. Pretty useful for critical silicon (alarm control panels and the like), in case some insane blizzard tears through and it takes a while to switch over to a generator. Though if you break the floor with 20 boat batteries for one desktop, well, everyone needs a hobby.
I'd love to see a video about off grind electric setups, it might be out of your range but you explain these things so clearly I'm sure you'd help a lot of people
well, the more proffered setup, especially for householders are to have generator with auto-start and big inverter at house in, which is good in any case . Why? coz fnkg refrigerator and food inside will say thanks to you... In hist setup, mom need manually use clamps to plug-in power supply and be always aware of not being shocked (hopefully there are no animals)
@@s.i.m.c.a You can safely hold both terminals with bare hands. A 24 volts aren't enough to shock you (maybe if you managed to hold both terminals with your tongue, but thats.... rather impossible), the only real risk if the battery was to short-circuit and couse a fire
I actually did this in college, though with /much/ more overkill. Used 2x 6V 240AH cells and a very nice inverter. Worked well until I reassembled it years later and fucked up a ground, leading to a /quite/ exploded inverter. Turns out 1200 amp arcing (thankfully contained within the inverter) is VERY LOUD AND SURPRISING. (And yes I had a fuse, but silicon blows faster!)
During a recent 5-day power outage, I implemented a system like this to power my CPAP machine. I calculate that it can run my CPAP without humidifier for 7-10 days.
shit i'm really gonna need one of those if i get to move back where the power goes out a few times in winter guaranteed. stupid aboveground powerlines. stupid plate tectonics.
@@Ritefita a cpap machine is a machine made for people who have sleep apnea, it works by keeping the airway open with a steady stream of air, allowing the person to breathe more easily. if you mean crap machine, thats just your digestive system
Thanks a lot for going through the specifics of batteries and what the units mean. I work at a store that sells similar batteries and although the materials are there they are much less accessible and understandable as you make the topics on your channel. I really appreciate the practical skill you teach!
I have spent a good part of my life reading manuals, CNC machine tools, computers and peripherals, PBX telephone systems, etc, mostly they are crap. Reading japanese technical manuals in the eighties was a skill set in itself. I think the only company that wrote consistently good manuels was nineties Microsoft.
I used this exact setup for a recent power outage here North of Toronto. The only difference: I had 2 batteries.. one ready when the other ran out. One thing about using inverters: don't let the voltage (LED display on most units) go down below 12 volts.
Great video! As a helpful tip to everyone, could save yourself lots of time and cost. Just open up that UPS, disconnect the leads going to that small internal 12v Lead Acid battery, run leads to deep cycle battery you bought (or even better 12v Lithium Battery) Bam! You got lots of extra run time on that same UPS that likely already is a Pure Sine wave inverter. Even charges that Deep cycle battery when Power isn’t out in the house since it’s designed to keep a slow float charge on the original lead acid battery inside.
Yup, much better solution. His battery will also be partially dead when he goes to use it since he doesn't have a float charger on it. The huge inverter is also very inefficient compared to a small inverter that could easily power the whole setup.
I was about to say exactly the same thing... he recreated a UPS with a manual transfer switch and plugged that into a UPS?!? UPS already IS a charger/battery/inverter/transfer switch. I've augmented my UPS exactly as we describe and it works perfectly. One SMALL caveat is that SOME small cheap UPSes are actually MODIFIED sine wave (aka "not sine at all since it's a square wave") so know what you have if you care.
The problem is that many small UPSs are fanless, and the only way they prevent overheating while discharging is by limiting (runtime × power drain). So even if there's plenty of extra battery capacity, the darn thing will still shut off in a half hour or so. A better mod would be to add a small fan along with the bigger battery. I speculate that some better UPS designs might use a temperature sensor to prevent overheating, so for those UPSs a fan might solve the problem. But I don't know which UPSs work that way, and I don't know how to find out.
BTW, if anyone working for APC, TrippLite, Leibert, or another UPS manufacturer happens to read this, or someone else who knows how these work, I'd be grateful for better information. Specifically, which makes & models use thermostats, and which use timers? Better yet, who makes an affordable, small-capacity UPS that uses CATL, BYD or similar "million mile" LiFePO4 (LFP) batteries, that can be counted on to never, ever fail?
I bought a 1000 cca die hard deep cycle flooded lead acid battery for my camper trailer, that with both 12vdc lamps on, my 2way radio, in receive mode I had a 5.7 amp draw. So I switched the one overhead bulb to LED and resulted in 4.5 amps. With radio transmitting in medium power, the amp draw jumped to 9 amps but this was only a few seconds each time when required. The tag on the battery stated at 5 amps continuous, the battery should last (new) at least 21 hours and since its highest draw is used mostly at night my calculation results at 39 hours of use before reaching critical discharge. It worked wunderbar. !! I just connected trailer hitch power plug and ran vehicle for about an hour til battery stayed at 12.7vdc. The battery was located under dinette bench, slightly cooler than the living space. Outside varied from daytime 35 *f to the windy night -57*f chills ! (Northern Michigan).
I think it’s hilarious that a stupid “personal air conditioner” ad plays before this channel’s videos after he very thoroughly trashed them for the ripoff junk that they are!
@@musicmugger666 To be fair, it's Alec who tells Google what ads he wants to get paid for on his channel and videos. So, moreso his "greed" and our willingness to watch. RUclips Vanced and Blokada will block these, however.
@@orangejjay what? youtubers don't have control over what ads google plays before their videos, at most they can control how many they allow (if nobody claims the monetisation) and where.
Just like how Christian ads play before certain atheism related channels. I remember I used to watch one of those channels that expose questionable religions and cults, and an ad for a Bible app used to play almost exclusively to all viewers lmao
excellent video as usual, i would to add one bit of info that i didnt catch here, deep cycle batteries have something called "dod" or "depth of discharge". i was experimenting with this the summer of 2020 and i learned ignoring this approach will significantly hurt its ability to charge fully up. for example: when i drained a 100ah battery down to 10.5 volts every day a few times a day, and then fully charge it back up i lost a little bit of amp hours. my guess is that at first i had 105ah, then the second cycle i got 103, then 102, then 101.5, then 99, then 98, etc etc, by the time i stopped doing this to my battery, it had reached a point where i was only getting about 84ah out of this brand new battery and it only took me a few cycles every day for about 2 weeks to see that much of a loss. for the record i think i was draining at a rate of about 500watts for maybe about 5 hours, which would be 2500wh, or 2.5kwh. anyways, most deep cycle batteries have a "dod" rating and at best its 50%. so if you have a 100ah battery, you should only drain 50ah out of it. so in the case of this video your battery might last exactly 8 hours or a tad more, but your battery will be nearly 100% drained. you should double your batteries. simply getting two of them and wiring them for a parallel 12v circuit, this will double your ah from 75 to 150 then you can safely discharge to 75ah on the two batteries. btw i did hear you about the low wattage draw may allow for you to extend the run time, just my two cents almost 2 years late
Wow, this Home Backup video is great! It's so important to have a reliable power source when you're camping or spending quality time with the family. The Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series seems like a perfect fit with its massive capacity, fast recharging, and waterproof technology. Thanks for sharing this recommendation!
Thank you for your comment! I completely agree with you about the importance of having a reliable power source when camping or spending quality time with family. The Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series sounds like a fantastic option with its massive capacity, fast recharging, and waterproof technology. It's definitely worth considering for anyone in need of a reliable home backup power solution. Thanks for sharing your recommendation!
You know, I've watched a ton of your videos, and am just now stumbling on this one. I'd love to see more TC Projects in the future! Your explanation and presentation style make topics like this a treat.
Great video. If I may, I would suggest two minor changes. 1) Rather un-plugging and re-plugging from the wall outlet, simply get a slightly larger battery charger, leave THAT plugged in, and constantly charge the battery, even when the power is on. 2) Ditch the separate UPS, and run through the batter and inverter continuously, as this is essentially just a larger UPS.
Hooked me with the hurricane lantern video. Definitely my favorite science/geek channel. Your attention to detail and willingness to take it to the deep end is satisfying to follow. Keep up the outstanding work!
I run my house offgrid and for his mum to run 58 watts for 8 hrs safety staying above 50% depletion of battery he would have to get at least 4 more of thoes batteries wired in parallel
@@chadwolfeschledgelsteinhau9697 what batteries would you recommend specifically? And what would the charge scenario for parallel? Would you charge the batteries individually or would you charge them together in parallel?
@@pfideonow i would get 4 31class deepcycle with a victron mppt and actually wire the 4 batterys in series parallel 24 volt if i had a 24 volt inverter but lets say 12 volt with victron 30/100 take it off grid permanently and never worry about it, that way you can always double or quadruple the batree bank n the futcher and take the refrigerator and afew more tvs offline permanently . 12v sucks i know! For better performance instead of 4 12v lets do 2 24v ! But yeah to take a tv and fridge off line permanently you need min of 8 preferably 10 batteries 31class true deep cycle wired m parrell 12v with victron 30/100 blue controller with 4 170 wat pannels 12v wired in series bringing the max incoming v upwards of 75 85 volts under the 100max v for the controller 😀👍 or 2 300 watt 24 v idk the numbers but wire the pannels in series gets incoming volts up there ! Very good for low light. Work out the numbers! You wont hit absorbsion on low light days but bats will get charge mabey take 1 aplience off just keep a eye on the 12.3 if you're bank number hits that without load cut everything off. Even in low light days on end that setup will run fridge 24/7
@@pfideonow caharge all together ❤ with victron mppt! Go to battrys and bulbs, or rurule king to get true deep cycle some farm stores u can get cheap ask for discount batree bank is big investment dont missmatch also you dont need domgel for the victron controler you can adjust manually i have mine 1 number up from the setting it comes with i think its set on 3. Juices up bats 14.7 v for 1 hr through absorbition
Just recently came across this one (3yrs later) and still found this interesting. I didn't know about the sponginess of the plates. That makes sense with how "car" grade lead acids will die in short order when fully cycled a few times. I recently took a server grade UPS (altho it is old and it not a rack mount unit; SU2200 for those interested) and I hooked up 8x 6V batteries to it. They are old as well, but because they are Golf Cart batteries (well, they were used in forklifts) they are "designed" for heavy use and constant high load applications "and" to last a long time. They aren't perfect, but they can keep my servers and work computer + 2x monitors online for at least 30 mins, and that's about 1500watts of load. A modified UPS makes for a great backup. Yank out the factory battery, add an extension to the wires, and connect to any 12V battery. Just don't run it for a hours on end unless it's rated for 2x your actual load. Otherwise, you'll overburden the electronics and actually melt components (don't ask how I know 😜)
I made my off grid type power system by running all my electronics including TV, DVD, Computer, etc. off of a power inverter full time. I used a generator during certain times of the day or night. The battery bank was 8 Trojan 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in a series/parallel configuration to give me 12 volts with a good capacity run time. During the times generator was running there is a fairly large current battery charger that recharges the bank of batteries. With this set-up there is never a loss of power or even a glitch. No switching sources or manual transfer switching. Even automatic transfer switches cause a split second power loss. Because they electro-mechanically move contacts from one power source to another by the use of a relay. I found this set-up best, for living in an RV as I do. The system I speak of above was what I had set-up for my motorhome several years ago. I now have a larger newer RV. A 37 foot 5th wheel trailer with 4 slide out rooms. Its bigger and has more amenities than some of my friends apartments! Washer/dryer combo in bedroom closet with all the hookups like in a regular home. Central vacuum system, simulated fireplace wich is also an electric heater. It has forced air heating for the regular heating powered by propane. Built-in 5500 watt generator that also runs on propane. What I'm planning on doing is using solar power and inverter generators as my two primary power sources being theres no utility power where I am living. I will do the same setup for non interrupted power. I'm hoping I will be able to run one RV aircondtioner during the day by solar power suppling enough battery current above whats being pulled. The RV has two air conditioners so on really hot days I can run generators to run both or one. I need to figure out my battery bank setup and true sine inverter wattage. Might use two inverter and separate the AC from other loads. Also plan to try out wind generators also. Great video especially about the categories of batteries. I didn't think about marine batteries as being a bit of both deep cycle and starting battery. I just assumed they were a deep cycle battery with the name marine for the boating industry. 👍
I do something similar in my home office. I have a 24V 2kW inverter that feeds from solar/AGM batteries. My office is all plugged into a UPS which can either plug into the grid or my inverter with a moments effort. Handy on sunny days where I can run my 100-300W load off the sun "for free" :-)
@@recklessroges There are charger/inverters designed for RV's and boats that do exactly this. While you're plugged into shore power it both charges the batteries and supplies the shore power directly to outlets. As soon as you unplug, it automatically switches to battery power. I'm pretty sure it's instant.
@@ZeldagigafanMatthew The point of an UPS is not to work with its power. The idea is that you can shut down nicely. With a laptop one really needs no UPS unless one has external hard disks.
I recently added a battery backup to my security system. With a small 12V 7AHr lead acid battery I can power my 8 cameras + DVR + router + ethernet switch for about 1.5hrs. As I needed to mount the backup in a safe (to prevent theft) using a larger battery like the one in this video was not an option. I also didn't need an inverter as all components I chose will use 12VDC or lower natively, which saves a bit of power to not have to go DC->AC->DC. For a work station though, creating such a setup for your mother must be a godsend for her. If you find out why the electricity in the home is so spotty, that might make for a good video if something with the power company or the home's wiring can be determined. :)
That small charger would work even during a big power outage. At 72W output, and lets say moms setup uses 80W with the 70W spike and power loss, that leaves 10W for the battery to compensate for. 10W for 8H + 16H of the setup being powered down, means that little charger should be able to keep the entire setup going for a multi-month blackout 😮. Thank you for this video, my area is suffering from multiple blackouts a month (usually seconds to minutes). I have 2 tropical fish tanks (canister filters, heaters, lights, the whole 9 yards). I'm going to be using this info to build a powerbank capable of sustaining 500W max for 12 hours in case there is a long term blackout (this takes into consideration losses, and other things you mentioned, measured with a Kill-A-Watt (430W peak+losses)). I love your videos, and appreciate how in depth you go. Thank you for everything. 😊
I used to work in a warehouse where we used electric forklifts that used massive lead-acid batteries. Those things were frankly kind of scary. They were easily capable of many thousands of Amps of output in a short scenario (they powered both the drive and the hydraulic pumps), and even under normal charging conditions, hydrogen build-up was a serious concern (they were placed in a special ventilated, explosion-resistant area while charging every night. The chargers themselves pushed somewhere in the range of 300A if I remember correctly. These batteries also got cycled to around 15% every day, or almost completely discharged on a busy day. The interesting thing about them is that they had to be 'watered' every month or so. Each cell had a removable cap on the top and a fill line, and you would fill to the fill line with DISTILLED water only. My understanding is that the electrolyte would dry up over time and turn into a powder which needed to be re-hydrated.
Electric fork lifts (and golf carts too, for that matter) use water because they are deliberately overcharged, turning the water into hydrogen and oxygen. They do this to balance the cells so that some don't get undercharged and damaged. The electrolyte in lead acid batteries is a solution of sulfuric acid in water, and any "powder" present is from the plates of the battery.
Interesting... I do remember them using water faster when the chargers were in their 'fast charge' mode (presumably very aggressive voltages / potentially overcharging). How does the hydrogen/oxygen from the water help balance the cells? Or do you mean balancing a change within each cell itself? Interesting stuff!
The hydrogen/oxygen is a byproduct of the balancing operation. When a "balancing charge" is performed on a battery, the normal voltage regulation is bypassed and the battery is charged to a higher voltage than normal. As a cell becomes fully charged, it can't accept any more current and will begin to "gas" (produce hydrogen/oxygen). This has no effect on the fully charged cell (other than using up water), but it DOES allow the cell to keep conducting current so that other cells can continue to charge. On golf cart chargers and fork lift chargers, the actual mechanism is that the voltage across the battery is monitored and when it reaches "fully charged" voltage a timer is started. The timer lets the charger continue to run for a pre-set amount of time to allow balancing to occur before shutting off. This means that the battery is always overcharged for a period of time, which "uses up" water, which has to be replaced.
@@wb5mctAh, I understand. This explains why some cells would end up using more water than others, because the cells that were at a lower voltage before balancing would use less water, while the higher voltage cells use up more water 'waiting' for the lower voltage cells to reach their level. For those reading, a 'balancing' charge is a special charge performed on a mainteance schedule, usually 'once every X charges', that ensures that the voltage of each individual cell in the battery are as closely matched as possible, as an unbalanced battery of cells will survive fewer charge/discharge cycles, and will likely have a shorter life. Thank you for your insight, Harvey!
I did something similar for similar reasons. However, I picked up a used rackmount UPS on Ebay for cheap, one that allows for a 36v add-on battery. Instead of the expensive official battery, I used three deep cycle batteries. This has the added benefit of being monitored as a standard UPS without really any added cost. And sort of looks more professional.
I had a similar situation occur here in Colorado, power was going out during the virus outbreak of 2020, because I was working from home.. made things annoying. So I purchased a UPS strong enough to support all my office equipment, but the power didn't last long, maybe an hour at best, so we have a golf cart we use to get around the community. I wired up a plug from the internal battery of the UPS, so I could easily run an extension wire from the UPS to the Golf Cart to use the battery bank it had since we always keep it on the trickle charger. I was able to run this for an entire day no problem one day when we lost power for nearly 8 hours in the middle of the day. It was a game-changer.
Nice. I am self employed in a rural area (internet retail) and have to worry about power too. I have lithium for now but possibly going to AGM so I can have more storage. I use solar to charge mine. Came in really handy when we lost power for a week in March. Runs my whole business (including LTE internet, no hardwire available). BTW- I have that exact same inverter which has worked well.
Exactly what I was contemplating when I clicked on here. Now all I need are the panels & a deep-cycle battery (because I killed my brand new truck battery by discharging it one time too many). 😲
First a little FYI for anyone wanting to try this. Instead of paying the core charge for a new battery, go to a junk years and ask to buy one of the many junk batteries they have. Typically they will either give you one for $10-$20. I’m a diesel mechanic and I have over 20 years experience working on anything with wheels. Even so one like myself got some new knowledge about batteries from the first 7 minutes of this video. When I go to teach my kids about how batteries work they will be watching this video.
Favorite battery brand plug: I *love* my Odyssey AGM deep cycle. They're expensive but have a massive reserve and are deep cycle. Plenty of CCA. Plus, sealed, so no off gassing!!
I’ve had some 105AH AGMs for 20 years at an off grid place. I’ve done some load testing and they are at close to 90% of original rating. They run an old Trace 4048 Inverter. Most places I worked in telecommunications we used wet cells. I worked at one place and we had 2v cells that were 1675AH.
She is blessed to have you nearby. I could set this up for my folks, but I’d have to fly over there every time the power went out (and when it came back on).
I have some experience with generators and battery backup, and liked this video (as usual). Good that you showed us how to find a ground at the outlet ("but check to make sure it's good," as you said, but I bet a lot of people won't know how. Not hard; simple testers with LED lights or a multimeter, but....). Also liked that little device that showed percentage of charge in the battery. (Except I wouldn't have connected it as a bare wire, but I confess to being anal about loose connections. Have seen them being the source of a problem so many times.) Only other thing I'd do is buy an inexpensive but robust power strip. Plug it in, leave it up on the desk. Then your poor mother won't have to crawl under the desk to plug and unplug the equipment when power goes out and comes back. She'll just flip the switch on the strip. (You want to make this as user friendly as possible.) But a good explanation, and I bet a lot of folks find it a model for their similar situation.
Sure. What I'm saying is that instead of plugging the UPS into the wall outlet, plug it into a power strip. The power strip must have an On/Off switch and be placed somewhere on the desk, as behind a monitor. (Go to about 14:20 of the video.) The power strip doesn't have to be expensive or include any protection devices. It's just a simple way of controlling electricity to the UPS. (One could easily build a small box that included a switch and an outlet and have a "power strip," but the switch and outlet would cost almost as much as the simple power strip we could buy at any thrift store.) Another advantage to using a power strip mounted where it's easily reached is when there's lightning nearby. At those times, UPS or no UPS, it's best to unplug electrical equipment from the outlet. So simply turn off the UPS, then unplug it from the power strip (which is readily accessible up on the table or desk). The power strip can stay plugged into the outlet. If it gets destroyed, so what, a few bucks for a new one. After the storm passes, plug the UPS back in, power it on, and we're back in business. Hope that helps.
You're still not fully fleshing out your power strip idea - if the power strip's still plugged in I'm not seeing how you can fully isolate the battery / inverter power from the grid and have the UPS connected at the same time (power companies really hate it when they think the power's out but you're supplying AC, you could even get in big trouble doing that & hurt/kill someone). Sounds like you're missing some DPDT switches to decide what powers the UPS and what's isolated. And then the ground is still connected (as it should be) but that could cause trouble in case of lightning, and the modem/network cables too
fdfoxter a transfer switch would be ideal but expensive, some of them are just DT switches (to isolate the main ac from the emergency ac) plus fuses anyway. OTOH, diy electrician work isn't always that safe, and not worth the cost savings if it voids your home insurance and there's an accident ;-)
@Steve, this isn't a turn on/turn off situation, but a "transfer" thing. I can't think of any way you can do that safely with a power strip. You need a DPDT switch (and it needs to be "break before make").
Thanks for this video! This helped me to understand what may have been going on with my car battery before I had it replaced. And the chemistry explanation was good, without having to go into the REDOX half-reactions 😀
Now we find ourselves in a post covid, work from home world. This video is very useful. I plan to use a "slightly" larger battery. The 24 kW battery in an old LEAF until my grand daughter gets her permit. After which I will need another battery or three. Thx for all the info and tips.
One plus would be to include automatic switching to the backup system. This would cover things if the 20 minute UPS time was exceeded. Also why not keep the maintenance charger connected continuously? Excellent video in all.
When I am away from home I want my computer to stay powered up in event of a prolonged power outage (e.g., 2 hr). A UPS will not suffice. So this video was SUPERB in explaining how to accomplish what I want. Thanks for the detail. I will cost this approach out vs an in-place propane powered small power generator. Thanks again!
In case you are doing it to your own equipment and are 100% certain you know what you are doing, it's very much more efficient to forgo the inverter and power everything from 12 volts directly, without their included power supplies, by simply adding a sufficient fuse in series. It can boost your run time by several orders of magnitude, but if your equipment is leased like in this case, Alec's solution is best.
@@cocobobo5962 Most electronics with a round power connector are 12V (laptops being the main exception), so you can just get a cable with that connector at one end and battery clamps on the other. For USB powered device a small buck converter can drop it to 5V. Another thing of note is that most switched mode power supplies can also take a DC input with the required voltage being multiplied by the √2 (e.g. 325V DC instead of 230V AC), although running DC at those voltages in a DIY project gets a bit more risky.
"Look at that! Society coming together to solve a problem and nobody's complaining about it." This is way to topical of a joke for a 2 and a half year old video.
You could say it’s society coming together to solve a problem ... or you could say that incentives matter. It turns out that when materials are relatively scarce companies go out of their way to recycle them, whether it’s car batteries or aluminum cans (for business reasons, not ideological or emotional ones). There have been examples of recycling you wouldn’t have dreamed of, but are a real thing, like some poor Asian people cleaning and recycling condoms (yuck!). Yes that’s real. Incentives matter.
I once watched a video on how lead-acid batteries are recycled. The comment section was filled the the brim with people complaining about how unsafe that is and how bad for the environment that must be, all those “fumes” escaping into the atmosphere. I’m no expert and have done very little research, but I’m 99% positive that recycling the lead, sulfuric acid, plastic, etc is significantly better for the environment than throwing the batteries into a landfill and mining new lead and sulfur and creating new plastic. Humanity depresses me so much
Because it's a lot simpler than configuring individuals DC power supplies for each item to be powered. Some need 5 volts. Some need 9 volts. And some things (like the monitors) have no DC input. It does seem silly, but one slightly inefficient supply that works with everything is much simpler than a bunch of individual DC supplies.
Because those are devices with a power supply designed to be powered from Mains power, though some things can run directly off battery power if the batteries output is close to what the device needs. They do also make 12 volt (Pico) power supplies for computers but they tend to be pretty weak (180-250 watt range) so they wouldn't be able to power a beefy computer setup
Excellent video except, in my experience, we always lose our Internet connection when the power goes out. The cable company (Comcast in this case) also relies on the same power grid. If the power is out for us, it's also out for Comcast. Did I miss something? Is her Internet connection wireless?
In this case, it's a little complicated. The ISP is using traditional twisted pair phone lines and DSL. They have rarely ever lost phone service, as the phone company has to provide generous backup power for that. I can't say for sure if they maintain the DSL connection during outages, but I would be surprised if they don't. Further complicating things is that the development they are in is fed by multiple incoming branches, so often times they will lose power while their nearby neighbors do not. When this happens, the phone company's equipment probably still has power anyway.
It's very location dependent. Both my dad's house (on a ranch, very rural) and my office (big building in a big city) have network access during power failures. Dad's house is served by a buried fiber with redundant power on a different circuit than the electric mains. My office internet will actually work until the UPS on the network switch runs out of juice.
Exactly. I also have DSL internet, and a 1200va (24v) ups hooked up to 2 external deep cycle batteries. Modem / router / switch is on a different ups. I have the alarm silenced on my desktop ups. I was playing an online game with the lights out once night and lost power. Only way I knew something was up was my laptop beside me turned on it's screen because it went to battery from ac power. Other than that, no interruption at all. 2 hours later power came back and everything was fine. I also get about 8 hours on my ups setup. (the ups seems to deal with extended battery runtime ok. I've done 4-5h battery tests to verify. It turns on it's internal fan, but is otherwise fine. I also run about 150w idle, and ~700w under gaming load)
our phone line also is dead when there is no power- it used to have its own power but that is gone since fast internet and voip is a thing (so basically before isdn)- mobile internet (lte) would most likely still work- but that also depends on where the cell tower is located- but all in all I have to say that we only ever had one single unplanned outage in my whole life
+Technology Connections Yeah older ADSL tends to be more robust there as the DSLAM is generally all the way back at the exchange which likely has full generator backup. Newer VDSL etc not so much as the DSLAM is out in a cabinet in a nearby street and those draw enough power that they need a separate mains connection the voltage on the phone line was never designed for equipment anywhere near that power hungry.
@Technology Connections it sounds like a lot of us want to hear how this setup has been holding up. It might even be time to upgrade it--swap the battery for one of those all-in-one battery devices people can use while camping. They are pretty nice, reasonably cheap, can output AC and DC to all of your devices, and best of all they are designed for just this situation. Most of them also come with a connector for solar panels so you can extend your runtime. And if she is dealing with these outages during business hours then solar makes good sense, especially given how cheap the panels are getting and the small amount of power her setup takes.
pretty neat solution! Let me suggest a simple bypass/failover circuit made of off the shelf parts (relays, rectifier, capacitors...) to automagically switch the APC UPS between mains and inverter, and remotely kickstart the inverter, it would cost you no more than $15 to build.
Batteries, chargers, and inverters. I love that you're playing my music. I created a similar install using a deep-cycle AGM battery (e.g. yellowtop), 12V charger/converter, and pure sine inverter. I use it to power my home theater gear such as processor, streaming devices, OLED TV, htpc, etc., (except amplifiers), as well as my home network including POE switch that drives the security cameras and a PC running NVR, and even a Raspberry Pi running Home Assistant. I chose AGM because it rarely off-gasses hydrogen unless it is being overcharged, and because I don't regularly discharge it deeply, such as in solar installations. A quality charger/converter is capable of producing clean DC power to an inverter while keeping a battery charged. In the event of utility power loss, there is no switching such as found in a UPS. It was already running on the 12V circuit and the loss simply means the charger de-energizes. And it avoids the power factor loss associated with daisy chaining a UPS from a converter/inverter/converter/inverter. And my home theater enjoys a clean power signal unencumbered by my refrigerator and other noisy devices such as LED lighting. I set this up about five years ago and it has been virtually maintenance-free. It keeps all my gear running during frequent power outages until our automatic standby generator kicks in.
Great video. I would like to see an update that considers the advantages of other battery types. Lithium batteries are still rather expensive, but an AGM battery might be a good fit for what you want to accomplish. I recently put four AGM's ($200 each) into my Motorhome to get a total of 400 Ah. As long as I don't allow them to discharge below 50%, they will stand many (many) recharge cycles over many years. So, I effectively have 200 Ah of useable battery power, day to day, with zero gasses because an AGM battery is sealed tight. Also, you might consider an inverter with a built-in charger. Then, no more cord swapping for Mom.
I can't believe he didn't mention gas or fume dangers. Unless I missed it. Not everyone watching will think to get sealed batteries. An array of portable flywheels would be incredible.
Thank you for the video. It's the second time I watched it in full. I acquired 6 ups with dead batteries for free. I plan on converting then to lithium with a built in lithium battery charger. Adding a volt meter/fuel gauge to the unit will let me know a head of time the state of health or soc before the annoy bepping from the ups low battery level. I would like to add how I like it when you explain or over explain the topic of discussion in your video. You do it in a way that doesn't feel like you are dumbing it down. Great job.
This is not exceptionally different from a solar/lighting setup I use at festivals in the woods. A relatively inexpensive charge circuit (about $15-20) and a solar panel round it out. My setup has a smaller battery, but is also running 12V lighting & cell phone charging rather than an inverter/computers. If you're interested, you can get E27-socket 12V LED bulbs on Amazon, and repurpose cheap lamps from IKEA or similar that you can screw the bulbs directly into, and connect in parallel to the inverter. Just don't accidentally connect 'em into mains - I cut the plug off the lamps so I can't, and re-wire them with barrel connectors so I can add/remove devices as needed.
Was there ever a follow-up video comparing battery chemistry? I can’t find it if it exists :( Either way, I love this channel so much. This is just one of countless videos that I’ll never regret watching more than once. Someone worthy of my Patreon patronage 💚
A great solution to a very specific problem and a great economic alternative to otherwise expensive portable solar power stations. Excellent presentation.
Aside from the charming presentation, one of TC's greatest strengths is providing a fair bit of context -- the more connections our brains can form with pre-existing information the better they remember and process stuff.
I can hear the APC unit on the left crying in the corner and saying "Am i a joke to you?" Dude, just hook up the APC unit to your new Deep Cycle battery and that is it. Job done. You can also buy APC units that allow you to hot swap batteries if you are interested.
@rochajoel: Good idea to swap the APC battery for bigger one, but the APC company is not such a dumb. I have experimented with this possibility and the APC unit inverters (three types, all less than 1000W) are all switched off after some time period (99 minutes or so) even if the battery is still almost fully charged (checked by its volatge). After some googling, I have find some 'explanation' by APC, that it is 'safety' measure. I can live with that information, but I will never buy another unit from this company, because there is no technical reason for such a limitation. Last but not least, there are videos about such a battery replacement on youtube and elsewhere, but it seems to me, that no one tried to make this long runnning tests with the device which power consumption is so low, that it should run for hours on 'bigger' battery...
It's a good idea, but there are some potential gotchas. Those APC units have no fan. So when operating as an inverter, they tend to get hotter and hotter. They rely on the limited battery capacity to ensure that they don't get hotter & hotter for too long! So, if you substitute a huge battery, you'll need to add a cooling fan. But, from the info that Jarda HYBNER posted, it sounds like the setup still won't work, at least with many UPS models, due to the "timeout" feature.
I can't believe I've binged your content multiple times, subscribed to you, AND I've been searching for diy battery backup tutorials for weeks now and youtube has only JUST recommended this video. I can't believe I didn't even notice it while scrolling through your channel.
I have pretty much exactly this setup to power my daily driver PC - which uses about 70W including modem/router, and monitor - except I have a LiFePO4 battery instead of lead acid, rated 100 amp hours at a 1 hour discharge rate, and a 13.8V bench supply connected across the battery to keep it fully charged from the mains - the 600W pure sine wave inverter can keep the setup running for over 12 hours if the power goes out (I've had the battery for over 10 years and it's still going strong). Awesome video, really enjoy how you explain things!
"SOME" golf cart batteries are 8 VOLTS, not all. You can buy 6V, 8v and 12V golf card batteries. I have a Club Car that takes six 8V batteries. If you want to make it awesome get two 12v batts in parallel, or two 6v batts in series.
Battery backups are great but have you considered a radioisotope thermoelectric generator? You don't know the meaning of uninterruptable power until you've experienced 30 years of unstoppable wattage and a mild case of radiation poisoning! Seriously though this channel is amazing and it would be cool if you did a video on alternative methods of off-grid power, i.e. consumer-accessible wind and solar.
From so often, having to go through much detail to help folks understand having a backup electrical supply and it's not that difficult and safer than it may seem, can be tiresome. Thank you for sharing this information in a plain easy to understand manner. I'll be sharing this video.
Where were you when I was in middle school? I and probably millions of others could've used such easy to understand yet deep explanations of basic principles.
No doubt. Stuff I struggled to understand in school has become crystal-clear watching this dude's channel. Partly because he makes it interesting, and uses great diagrams and photos. Brilliant communicator as well.
Also the humor
This is one of the best videos I've seen. Good image, good lighting, good backdrop, good knowledge, good speaking, clean environment, no overwhelming music, and an interesting subject. You also answered some of my questions on this subject that no other video could answer. Good job.
What did the blind man tell the musician when ask how to find Radio City Music Hall?
Practice, practice, practice, this young man certainly did practice.
Watching this in 2021 is a little weirder taking about your Mom's WAP.
It is puzzling to see how stupid this solution is. Here in India we have cheap pure sine wave ups. You can connect lead acid batteries to it. You can connect the batteries in parallel for more capacity. The SINE-WAVE inverter costs about 5000-6000 Rupees or about 80 USD and 150Ah lead acid batteries cost about 13500 Rupees or 180 USD. This set up powers your devices like a UPS(Uninterrupted Power Supply ) and automatically recharges the battery when the power is restored.
Maybe these devices are not readily available in the US that's why this kind of setup is needed. Because our country has frequent power cuts(2-3 time a week), this device is quite common here.
photovoltaic/solar thermal technician here: BRAVO 👍 i love deep cycle lead acid batteries. yes i install lithium phosphate. but this is what i always tell people they can set up for emergencies. that inverter can also be hooked up to the car with a full tank of gas and can approx 72 hours before tank goes empty. instead of charging from outlet get a used 350W solar panel and get the power for free. just cause of this video i am slapping that subscribe button 💥👍👍👍
And I conclude I can hook it up to my EV too. Using 12v outlet or the 12 v battery
Hey. Can you explain to me how it can e hooked up to the car please! It would be super helpful
@@klmklmklm2581 connect the inverter directly to the car battery terminals. Red wire goes to red terminal, black goes to black.
I connected an inverter to my Hybrid's starter battery and its pretty awesome. Everytime I depleated the starter battery the Running battery would charge it. If the running battery gets depleated then the engine goes on and charges the running battery. Perfect for off the grid living
Just to nitpick lead acid technology a bit - as an amateur radio operator it is a well researched and practiced topic for myself. There are two major families of lead-acid battery: Flooded and Sealed (SLA). Since we are discussing Flooded lead acid batteries in this video, there are three major subtypes within the Flooded family: SLI (Starter), Hybrid/Dual Purpose (this includes “marine deep cycle”), and the true Deep Cycle batteries (this group typically consists of traction batteries like Golf Cart, Forklift, etc.). It is important for people to understand that despite the name of “marine deep cycle” such batteries are not true deep cycles and their absolute safe discharge limit is only 50%, or 12.0VDC under load, (but still far “deeper” than the 10-15% limit of SLI) whereas the true deep cycle batteries may be safely discharged by up to 80%, or about 11.55VDC under load, many hundreds of times. The greatest bang for the buck in true deep cycle batteries can be found in the ubiquitous 6V and 8V Golf Cart batteries and they will hold up to many deep discharge cycles and are about as inexpensive per amp-hour and service life as one can get and are available almost anywhere (a typical 6V battery will have anywhere from 180-240 amp-hours capacity and a pair wired in series will give you 12V at that 180-240 amp-hour rating) and at around 65 lbs (~30kg) each they can be moved fairly easily (but do buy a set of lift straps to give you a proper handle by which to carry them). You can fairly reliably differentiate between true deep cycle batteries and the hybrid/dual-purpose (e.g. “marine deep cycle”) batteries by the presence or absence of a cranking amps specification as it is extremely uncommon for true deep cycle batteries to list a CCA or MCA cranking amps specification on their label whereas hybrid/dual-purpose and SLI batteries will always list cranking amps.
Since the battery used in this example is a hybrid/dual-purpose battery with a safe discharge limit of 50% the load should be disconnected when the battery voltage UNDER LOAD falls below 12.0VDC as that is the 50% threshold for a 12V nominal lead acid battery under load - but be aware that most inverters do not automatically shutoff until the voltage drops to 10.5VDC, which corresponds to 100% discharged and will destroy such batteries very quickly.
The other major family is the Sealed Lead Acid family, which includes AGM and Gel Cell batteries, of which the AGM battery is generally more desirable for backup uses where high amp draws may be present and AGM batteries do not require specialized chargers to the same extent as Gel Cells do (most any modern multi-stage charger or fixed 13.8VDC float charger that can charge a flooded cell can be used to charge an AGM battery - but do avoid older/cheap unregulated chargers as they are not suitable for any sort of sealed lead acid battery). Gel Cell batteries do require specialized charging parameters and thus need specialized chargers and are not as capable of arraign high amperage loads in discharge. Sealed lead acid batteries also afford the benefit of releasing no explosive gasses during normal use parameters which is often advantageous for indoor use or confined spaces nor do they require regular servicing to keep their electrolyte level safely above the plates.
If using/charging a flooded lead acid battery indoors it should be charged in a large open room, preferably using a smart charger that either shuts off upon complete charging or while steps the float voltage down to around 13.2VDC once the battery is full. This greatly reduces the production of explosive gasses and reduces electrolyte water loss. If the battery is being charged indoors, install Water Miser vent caps on the battery vents to help recapture water droplets that would otherwise be lost due to aerosolization (due to the bubbling of hydrogen and oxygen during charging) - not only will this largely eliminate the acrid smell during charging (especially if fast charging) but it also greatly reduces the aerosolized sulfuric acid that can wreck havoc on nearby electronics.
And most importantly when using flooded batteries, especially indoors, check electrolyte levels regularly and top up with distilled or deionized water as needed - nothing ruins one’s day quite like an exploded battery dispersing it’s sulfuric acid electrolyte around the room due to a spark forming or plates buckling because the electrolyte level fell below the level of the plates. Also, it’s best to top up batteries after a complete charge since the electrolyte level can vary a bit during charging as the bubbles displace the electrolyte.
Hopefully some folks will find the above useful as I have an entire presentation on the topic of converting an amateur radio station entirely over to 12V (not just the transceivers, which is trivial, but also the PC, monitors, and lighting (no AC inverters used, though several well filtered DC-DC converters are used to create odd voltages like the 19VDC required by the pair of 27” IPS LCD monitors; the NUC-style PC, on the other hand, was chosen specifically for its ability to run directly off ~12VDC). 73 de KW4EK
A few other additions... Though very lightly addressed anyone seriously interested in how to determine the effective amp-hour capacity of a given lead-acid battery under a given level of load will want to brush up on the Peukert Effect as the affect of load versus relative accessible capacity is a nonlinear function. Also, something to be aware of with the vast majority of the battery capacity “fuel” gauges available on eBay, Amazon, etc., is that most do not report a proper percentage in terms of real battery capacity rather they use a simple linear function, mapping 10.5-12.6VDC to 0-100% in a linear manner. This might not seem like a big deal until you realize lead acid battery capacity versus voltage is also highly nonlinear. For example from a fully charged state of 12.6VDC to 12.0VDC (0.6V down from full) represents 50% of the battery’s capacity, yet most such gauges will report 75-80% at that point. By the time the voltage has dropped another 0.4VDC to 11.6VDC you have used up 80% of the battery’s actual capacity but the gauge will still indicate around 55% (yet, at this point even true deep cycle batteries are already at their 80% discharge limit). The problem stems from the fact that the upper 1.0VDC (12.6-1.6VDC) represents 80% of a lead acid battery’s capacity yet the bottom 1.1VDC (11.6-10.5VDC) represents the final 20% of the battery’s capacity. So with most of these gauges you will actually want to discontinue use at the 75-80%, or 12.0VDC under load, threshold for hybrid/dual-purpose type batteries (having a safe discharge limit if 50%) or at the 50%, or 11.6VDC, threshold under load if using true deep cycle batteries (having a safe discharge limit of up to 80%) if you wish to preserve battery service life and not destroy the battery prematurely.
I found your info easy to read and very informative! I own a set of 12v marine deep cycle batteries in my solar power system. Not the best as your comment states, but cheap and easy to come by! I have had the voltage drop to 11.9 a few times under load, bit they usually hover in 12.4 or 12.6 right in the morning before the sun comes up. Then it's back to full again. My controllers are cheap, and hold the voltage at 14.4 whole it's sunny. They are not mppt. The batteries are in a ventilated garage. And the charge amps never go above 9 to 10 and across the two 60 amp hour batteries. The panels are a mix, totalling in about 190 watts. Little system, but had been fun playing with it!
I love radio! Been thinking about taking the test someday and getting on the air. In the meantime I just have my baofeng toy, and listen in from time to time. We have 3 repeaters in the area. I also listen to CB here. There is a local group that gets on everyday and just talks about whatever. Real proper though, none of that channel 6 mumbo jumbo. Cool stuff.
Anywho, have a good Tuesday or Wednesday! Thanks again for the read!
or save up some money and get li ion batteries
tis on order...100 18650's and holders to start 5,000 mAh batteries
Wow so much info! Thanks! My father has been servicing car batteries for as long as I can remember and it's awesome to see much of what he learned empirically (and eventually passed on to me) being explained in a much more scientific way.
Great video. One suggestion, anytime you're messing with lead acid batteries, use safety glasses. The most dangerous hydrogen buildup can be inside the battery. Those grids inside the batter can have an errant wire that can short the battery internally when the wire wears through the separator. I've worked at a lead smelter, an automotive repair shop, and a major battery manufacturer. I've seen the top blow off more than a few batteries. When charging a battery, heed the following: Make sure the battery charger is turned off when you first hook it up. Keep your face away from the top of the battery. Use safety glasses (how much do you value your sight?).
I have ALWAYS wanted to know why car batteries die so easily after the lights are left on but are fine for years just starting the car, even in cold weather. Great video, as always.
It's because regular car batteries don't like being discharged less than 80%. Even "deep-cycle" ones only are supposed to go down to 50%. Going down to 0% basically plus all the surface lead into the electrolyte. When it reforms, it doesn't do it perfectly, causing both lead dust at the bottom (that can build up higher than the gap down there and short the plates) and can cause whisker like shorts between plates. But mostly it causes lead sulfate crystals to form which reduce the original capacity. There are lots of devices and concoctions that try to reverse that, but nothing really to get them back to new. When the starter is used, it only discharges to say 95% and the recharges back to 100 as the car runs on the alternator.
More crystals form in the cold, which is why a lot of batteries go dead in the winter, especially when left low for a couple days.
I have a Renault Megane from 2005 and it have a interesting feature that i noticed other car makers didn't bothered to set even on newer cars. When i lock the car,the lights go off too,also go off if i don't lock the car after 10 minutes, if the engine is not started. I may guess this was made to avoid the battery to be discharged if someone forgets the lights on.
@@watchinstuff5726 And then there are batteries that are simply shit. The batteries from Bosch are of this last kind. Had several. Each and every one of them I never really cycled, as the lights in my car are under key lock and when I shut the engine they go out too, but it suffice a pair of mild winters to have the need to change the damn thing.
Compare them to batteries from Fiamm. The last I had lasted me six years of intense cold winters on the same diesel car the Bosch shit themselves on for much less.
@@watchinstuff5726 Yes, correct. But also because regular car batteries are starter batteries, with very slim cells intended for large current draw capacity but not for long times, in contrast with the thick plates of a deep cycle or marine battery
My favorite part of this setup is converting AC to DC to charge the battery, then inverting DC to AC to provide wall power from the battery, then converting AC back to DC for the electronic devices.
That's how it works these days, everything runs off AC and few things have DC input
could probably install a 12vdc ati power supply in his moms pcs, and wire it straight up to the 12v battery or to a 12v wall adapter. only problem is making the power supply uninterrupted.
There is one more cycle in there because the ups also has a battery. I think he could've bypassed the inverter by just having the car battery connected to the battery in the ups
@@andrewk8636 CAN SOMEONE CONFIRM THIS PLEASE😁
@@andrewk8636 Yes, you could possibly just wire the larger 12 volt battery in parallel to the smaller battery in the UPS. This would allow the UPS to run the equipment for much longer durations. But if the UPS does not have the option to silence the beeping that could get kind of annoying and it might overheat. Alternatively you could just have the inverter turned on 24/7, and run the whole setup off the inverter constantly, and just take the UPS completely out of the setup. The battery and inverter combination is essentially a UPS by itself.
In this video you did a better job at explaining batteries than all of my old auto parts store job's brain washing videos combined.
trust me most auto guys dont know shit about electrical power
Yeah, now I know how 12 volt batteries work and how they are recycled.
dude, i thought i knew about batteries. now i understand WHY the batteries function as they do.
@@goreobsessed2308 In my experience, most auto guys don't know shit about much in general, unfortunately.
@@tekneiq True but our customers know less. "I don't know what I drive or what the problem is but I need the correct part and it better be cheap."
"Do you have a 4 cyl or V6?" "It has 2 pipes in the back, that a V6 right?", or "I have a V4". "Do you have a EX, LX, DX, SE, or EX-L?", "there aint not letters on the back, I have the regular one.", "Do you have 2WD, 4WD, or AWD", "I have 2WD", brings back part because I sold them the "wrong part", turns out they have 4WD but leave it in 2WD so that is what they told me.
I could go on with these all day, but you get the idea.
The best part about this project: you did it for your mom. That's awesome! The best thing we can do with our gifts is to share them with other people, especially those we love.
"Their construction is quite basic"
More like acidic?
A-cid what you did there.
Waa waaaaa waaaan
lol
It's all fun and games until someone gets an exploding acid battery in the eye.
You just won the internet :-))
I remember a year ago when you posted this video. How has this setup handled the last 364 days of service, care to do a follow-up on it?
yeah, an update wil be nice
No answer.
These setups work great. Telecom industries use a similar setup, albeit -48v. Use AGM battery types.
In the developing world we use these set ups to keep a whole office in operation with several computers , USB chargers and even fans running all day on a couple of largish deep cycle batteeies . Used to be marginal on the old cathode ray tube monitors but flat screens save the day. Auto switching from mains/trickle charge to battery on power failure helps keep the switch seamless.
I have had an identical setup for well over 4-5 years now, cycled at least 20 times when the power went out and the batteries are still perfectly fine. But I keep on top of maintenance.
Broheim didn't miss a beat he must have practiced real hard on his delivery. Well done, straightforward production thank you.
7:27 I love how the numbers are the exact same font and size as when they are displayed when you click on "identify monitors" within Windows.
Nice attention to detail!
As this channel so often does.
I like this too :))
@Hell's favorite NPC #69OU812 . exe eh it's okay, as long as it still works lol
@Hell's favorite Salty Masshole what I learned after so much time wire managing workstations is all that matters is that none of the wires get kicked or pulled. It’s fine I wouldn’t do much except maybe a couple Velcro wraps to keep the big stuff bundled together.
@@markm0000 It is also recommended that data and power cables be kept apart from each other as varying EMFs in power cables are known to corrupt data.
Oh you are so true. I realized it somehow. Nice detail.
For everyone suggesting that he attach a massive battery to the UPS ... it was supplied by his mums workplace and i bet he doesn’t want to muck about with it.
And, the inverter inside this UPS was only designed to give a few minutes of backup. It has no cooling whatsoever, and honestly it's not a great inverter (as evidenced by its buzzing noise when running). It would not be happy running for 8 hours straight, I imagine.
Also that line of APC UPSs is a pain in the butt to work on; the cables inside are really short and only tiny Chinese fingers can get in there to unplug them.
@@TechnologyConnections i have been thinking of getting a similar setup for a few years now. one thing i wonder about: why not use dc-dc converters and power the things directly that way? you might see a difference of 15-30% in power consumption.
Also, I'm pretty sure those are modified sine wave inverters. My APC UPS is a modified SW. They state in the manuals that they are designed to be enough time to save your work and shut down. This also saves your power supplies, as they typically operate warmer under load when plugged into a modified SW.
I've seen a great vijeo on the difference between modified and pure; can't remember which channel. Explained it well. Pretty much everything runs hotter, motors, power supplies, ect. Only thing modified is good for IMO is incandescent light bulbs and simple fans. Speaking of which, I wonder if a large fan would clean up the sine wave?
@@shimes424 you are right, only their high end (is it xl or something like that) series are pure sine. So this is a perfectly adequate emergency backup setup... They aren't trying to go solar with it.
As a science teacher and a chemist I am impressed with the clarity of this presentation. Excellent video photos to support the audio!! It was really, really enjoyable to watch. I subscribed awhile ago and have watched other videos from this channel; all of them have been of high production quality as well.
“Another fun feature of lead-acid battery chemistry”
That may be the only time in human history that phrase will ever be spoken
r/brandnewsentence
Haha. Maybe, but they are really cool and super useful
The beauty of this setup, other than its simplicity, is that you could add additional 12v deep cycle batteries in parallel to this one to give you even more longevity.
@@MM-di5nu ...and run your electronics for a very limited amount of time (those batteries are very small, especially the ones that come in the discount Walmart UPSes). Several parallel-mounted deep cycle batteries could run her system for literally days on end.
As long as u beef up charger
@@JustWasted3HoursHere I know this has 3 months old, but shouldn't those addicional batteries be connected in series to improve the current instead of voltage? The inverter only works with a 12V input, so adding 24 or even more Voltage should do the opposite thing of giving more energy to devices.
@@sebastiandiaz6297 parallel is what combines current. series combines voltage, which is a big no-no for a 12v inverter
Nice video. Inverters with built in automatic transfer switches and battery chargers are now readily available. Using one of those with your marine battery, or better yet a LIFEPO4 battery would basically be a large UPS. You could just eliminate the small UPS and never have to do any switching at all. Love your videos by the way. We learned a lot from the dishwasher videos and no longer use the pods. It's been an improvement and cheaper to boot, so thanks!
Ah, the good old "we don't need a fuse as the wires will melt first", so beloved of Chinese electronics
I mean, they're not wrong. And what is a fuse but a wire of a certain thickness? ;)
That's fucking hilarious yo, but yeah lol
The irony is he could've just attached the meter to the lug on the other side of the fuse he had in the primary circuit. Of course the whole setup is unnecessary, the battery could've just been connected in parallel to the small 12v battery inside the UPS or even just replace it, the UPS already has an inverter and a charger plus the appropriate fuses and control circuitry. This might mean drilling a hole in the UPS housing but would've been a far simpler solution.
Botfly infection in a cat
@@johnwang9914 this most times will not work as the actual output of the battery will differ from the built in battery and the ups is set to very specific expectations of what type and output the battery installed uses and it will revise to work if the battery dies not output what it is programmed to recognize, hence why it does not work off the generator because the ups considered it too dirty and is unable to clean it up enough because it's inverter is not strong enough so it just blocks it out and as he said the last time they tried it, it fried the USP. The built in inverter is not designed to handle batteries of that size and amperage, so it also would not it recharge properly as the charger would not be able to charge a deep cycle battery as it's output is far too low birth in voltage and amps and has a very high chance of just frying all the electronics in the ups. Not to mention the ups is being a backup and protection of all the electronics connected to it so tampering to it would good the warrently so if it malfunctioned it could very quickly fry three electronics connected to it or start a fire switching batteries is NOT a safe idea in anyway shape or form.
A dirt cheap 12V solar panel of 80 or 100w provides the exact voltage to charge the lead acid. I have a similar setup to yours with a used truck battery (24V 110AH) and use two panels in series. It is up 6 years now. Some devices are using DC from the system 24/7 and the inverter serves only when power is out. It never happened that the inverter reach its low voltage cut. All things are second or more hand. The panels were on a van for 7 years before I got them. The truck battery is unable to start a truck, but works well here. There is no label on the battery so I can only see what is engraved in plastic. When you under use a battery it can last way longer.
I just want to thank you for such a well done video. I followed the advise you gave here because I'm a Foreign English Teacher living in Vietnam. The power here often goes out in the summer and winter due to high power demands. It is usually back up in an hour or two. I bought a battery and a 2000W inverter. When the power goes out I can still run 2 laptops and 2 50 inch TV's for about 3 hours. They use 240VAC here so I think that helps. My inverter is rated 12DC in and 240W out. My battery back up is still working fine. Last summer I used it about 5 times and it worked like a charm. recently I purchased a EcoFlow Delta Max Solar Generator. This thing has a 2000W per hour rating. I can run my whole house on this thing. It will boil water, run an electric cooker, run a fridge, and many other things. I also mounted a 300w solar panel. I did this for longer outages. But the car battery system you show here is now a secondary or back up to the EcoFlow. I'm already planning to build a power system for a van that I will build in the future. That way my van becomes a mobile power station that I can hook up anywhere to anything. It's going to be epic. Again, thank you for the inspiration to get off my a$$ and get things done. Cheers!
Glad to know you're able to make a living making these videos. They truly are articulate, erudite and stylish productions. I also enjoy your particular sense of humour.
Thanks for posting this. I work at a radio station and needed to power remote broadcast equipment more than 300 feet from the nearest outlet for a series of high school soccer games. We tried extension cords but the voltage drop was too much for the equipment.
I had watched this video months ago and I just happened to have a pair of 12V group 24 deep cycle marine batteries that I wasn't using, so I bought a 12V 2kW inverter and wired the batteries up in parallel. Problem solved! Now we have a nice clean power source for the many places we broadcast from that don't have electricity.
The only drawback is that it's heavy.
Also the disadvantages with a generator is the noise aspect, and the fact that you need to feed it with fuel. Great vid by the way. Paul UK.
I made a super-ups once sort of like this. Biggest ass marine deep cycle battery from Walmart, and I got a UPS from work that was being thrown away because its batteries died. It was some kind of 750va tripp-lite. I ran the battery leads out of the UPS and into the battery. I connected a supplemental automatic charger to the battery. I also added additional cooling to the UPS. Nod to the knowledge of the Peukert effect in your video!
I'm looking at this approach to make backup power for a propane fireplace. How did it work for you? I realize the UPS charger is undersized for battery recharging but better than nothing. If the battery is 1st fully charged, the UPS float charge should be plenty between major power losses.
Too bad he didn't discuss how Peukert's law would help him and he could have touched on recommended charging rate relative to battery chemistry and C. Some limitations with his 6amp charger vs 100ah battery.
Stayed for the explanation - finally understand car batteries
A little suggestion for anyone else considering this. This is definitely a viable option for a backup power source. A much simpler way of achieving this functionality would be to take an old computer UPS (a lot of them have pure sine wave inverters built in) and extend the internal battery cables outside the casing and connect them to an external battery bank. A lot of times you can get used UPS's for dirt cheap because they have bad batteries. Plus the UPS will handle keeping the batteries charged, and automatically switch over to the inverter when the power goes out. Some higher end UPSs even have a connection for an external battery bank already in place.
Honest question here, and I think it's related to what you're saying. I was wondering why he had to get an inverter, when he could have just connected the Marine battery in parallel to the UPS battery? I honestly don't know if I'm missing something.. Thanks.
A comment tho, not all the UPS have pure sine wave inverters, many cheap (sub $100) do not (at least from when I last looked) most cheap ones are simulated sine wave.
Disregard my previous question, I believe I know why now..
I literally was just typing a comment to say this when I found yours... that's what I did... mine had a large enough bay that I was able to find a battering that could sustain 500w for an hour and that's what I put in it.
Great idea. You may need to kill/remove the infernal beeper that many UPS have.
Great video, love how thorough you were in determining your load and how to monitor the battery state. You came so close to calling your solution what it is, a double conversion UPS.
Double conversion UPSes take the input AC, run it to a charger which charges the battery (Conversion 1), then the inverter converts the incoming power from the battery into 120V (Conversion 2).
Double conversion UPSes are more expensive because the inverter and the battery charger are both online and have to be a bit beefier than their single conversion counterparts. In a power failure, the battery charger just stops providing output power to the battery. The output power never drops since the inverter continues to provide power to the load.
Single conversion UPSes are more commonly referred to as "standby UPSes", these are the common UPS devices that people use at home and for their workstation computers. These devices don't run their inverter all the time and their battery charger float charges the battery to ensure it's ready on power failure. These make a characteristic "click" sound when power is lost, that's the contactor inside switching from wall input to the inverter's output.
The biggest difference between double and single conversion is the state of the inverter. If it's always running, it's double conversion. If it's only running when input power is lost, it's a single conversion (standby) UPS.
There is a third type of UPS, a Line Interactive UPS that is usually only used in datacenters. Line Interactive UPSes are like single conversion UPSes except they also have an automatic transformer (autoformer) that conditions the incoming power. In the event of a brownout, the autoformer adjusts the incoming line so that the output is consistent with expected voltage. If the autoformer can't make up for the brownout, then the inverter takes over and provides output power until the input power comes back within spec. The difference between a Line Interactive UPS and a double conversion UPS is that the inverter isn't always providing power, and the difference between the Line Interactive UPS and a Single conversion UPS is that the autoformer cleans the input power before it's delivered to the load.
For the cheaper home single UPS, they do protect from a brownout. They will check the input and if it is bad, will switch to battery which is actually more reliable since the other circuits don't get exposed to bad AC input like the charger.
It is puzzling to see how stupid this solution is. Here in India we have cheap pure sine wave ups. You can connect lead acid batteries to it. You can connect the batteries in parallel for more capacity. The SINE-WAVE inverter costs about 5000-6000 Rupees or about 80 USD and 150Ah lead acid batteries cost about 13500 Rupees or 180 USD. This set up powers your devices like a UPS(Uninterrupted Power Supply ) and automatically recharges the battery when the power is restored.
Maybe these devices are not readily available in the US that's why this kind of setup is needed. Because our country has frequent power cuts(2-3 time a week), this device is quite common here.
@@parnavad1794 Its not so much about having a pure sine wave inverter or motor. Their generator was not able to output either the correct volts (due to old alternator) and/or the correct frequency (engine RPM). Electronics can take squarish sine waves and not be bothered, only inductive and resistive loads will so it won't do well to power an oven or heater, but electronics that utilise switching PSUs dont really care much about the wave form
Protip for folks who love overkill: Yes, you can run a boatload of batteries in parallel with this kind of setup. Pretty useful for critical silicon (alarm control panels and the like), in case some insane blizzard tears through and it takes a while to switch over to a generator.
Though if you break the floor with 20 boat batteries for one desktop, well, everyone needs a hobby.
Your videos are very useful - as I live in England I have only had one power failure in the last 40 years
you must not get bad storms
I'd love to see a video about off grind electric setups, it might be out of your range but you explain these things so clearly I'm sure you'd help a lot of people
mommy raised a great man with a good head on his shoulder.
Mommy AND Daddy...
well, the more proffered setup, especially for householders are to have generator with auto-start and big inverter at house in, which is good in any case . Why? coz fnkg refrigerator and food inside will say thanks to you...
In hist setup, mom need manually use clamps to plug-in power supply and be always aware of not being shocked (hopefully there are no animals)
@@s.i.m.c.a You can safely hold both terminals with bare hands. A 24 volts aren't enough to shock you (maybe if you managed to hold both terminals with your tongue, but thats.... rather impossible), the only real risk if the battery was to short-circuit and couse a fire
I actually did this in college, though with /much/ more overkill. Used 2x 6V 240AH cells and a very nice inverter. Worked well until I reassembled it years later and fucked up a ground, leading to a /quite/ exploded inverter. Turns out 1200 amp arcing (thankfully contained within the inverter) is VERY LOUD AND SURPRISING. (And yes I had a fuse, but silicon blows faster!)
During a recent 5-day power outage, I implemented a system like this to power my CPAP machine. I calculate that it can run my CPAP without humidifier for 7-10 days.
Easy off?
what is crap machine?
That's exactly what I thought of watching this video. Then I realized that I already did that by hooking my CPAP up to an older-model lead-acid UPS.
shit i'm really gonna need one of those if i get to move back where the power goes out a few times in winter guaranteed. stupid aboveground powerlines. stupid plate tectonics.
@@Ritefita a cpap machine is a machine made for people who have sleep apnea, it works by keeping the airway open with a steady stream of air, allowing the person to breathe more easily.
if you mean crap machine, thats just your digestive system
Dude, you are one of the very few channels I've recommended to others, I appreciate how you deliver education
Well done! Clearly articulated. Having video as you speak really helps - a lot of you tubers have minimal video cut and just talk. Thqnks.
Thanks a lot for going through the specifics of batteries and what the units mean. I work at a store that sells similar batteries and although the materials are there they are much less accessible and understandable as you make the topics on your channel. I really appreciate the practical skill you teach!
I have spent a good part of my life reading manuals, CNC machine tools, computers and peripherals, PBX telephone systems, etc, mostly they are crap. Reading japanese technical manuals in the eighties was a skill set in itself. I think the only company that wrote consistently good manuels was nineties Microsoft.
I used this exact setup for a recent power outage here North of Toronto. The only difference: I had 2 batteries.. one ready when the other ran out. One thing about using inverters: don't let the voltage (LED display on most units) go down below 12 volts.
Man, you earned a sub by giving the timestamp where to skip to, I watched it all but very few content creators actually care to do that. Good work!
Riight
Imagine how the UPS will feel when it finds out it has been fooled.
And how will it react afterwards 😂😂😂
Technology Connections was a prank channel all along.
*beeps provocatively*
Hook two UPS units in a circle.
@@Aranimda Free energy is here ! Electroboom ....
Great video! As a helpful tip to everyone, could save yourself lots of time and cost. Just open up that UPS, disconnect the leads going to that small internal 12v Lead Acid battery, run leads to deep cycle battery you bought (or even better 12v Lithium Battery) Bam! You got lots of extra run time on that same UPS that likely already is a Pure Sine wave inverter. Even charges that Deep cycle battery when Power isn’t out in the house since it’s designed to keep a slow float charge on the original lead acid battery inside.
It would also automatically switch from wall power to battery power instead of having to do it manually.
Yup, much better solution. His battery will also be partially dead when he goes to use it since he doesn't have a float charger on it. The huge inverter is also very inefficient compared to a small inverter that could easily power the whole setup.
I was about to say exactly the same thing... he recreated a UPS with a manual transfer switch and plugged that into a UPS?!? UPS already IS a charger/battery/inverter/transfer switch. I've augmented my UPS exactly as we describe and it works perfectly. One SMALL caveat is that SOME small cheap UPSes are actually MODIFIED sine wave (aka "not sine at all since it's a square wave") so know what you have if you care.
The problem is that many small UPSs are fanless, and the only way they prevent overheating while discharging is by limiting (runtime × power drain). So even if there's plenty of extra battery capacity, the darn thing will still shut off in a half hour or so.
A better mod would be to add a small fan along with the bigger battery. I speculate that some better UPS designs might use a temperature sensor to prevent overheating, so for those UPSs a fan might solve the problem. But I don't know which UPSs work that way, and I don't know how to find out.
BTW, if anyone working for APC, TrippLite, Leibert, or another UPS manufacturer happens to read this, or someone else who knows how these work, I'd be grateful for better information. Specifically, which makes & models use thermostats, and which use timers?
Better yet, who makes an affordable, small-capacity UPS that uses CATL, BYD or similar "million mile" LiFePO4 (LFP) batteries, that can be counted on to never, ever fail?
I bought a 1000 cca die hard deep cycle flooded lead acid battery for my camper trailer, that with both 12vdc lamps on, my 2way radio, in receive mode I had a 5.7 amp draw. So I switched the one overhead bulb to LED and resulted in 4.5 amps. With radio transmitting in medium power, the amp draw jumped to 9 amps but this was only a few seconds each time when required. The tag on the battery stated at 5 amps continuous, the battery should last (new) at least 21 hours and since its highest draw is used mostly at night my calculation results at 39 hours of use before reaching critical discharge. It worked wunderbar. !! I just connected trailer hitch power plug and ran vehicle for about an hour til battery stayed at 12.7vdc.
The battery was located under dinette bench, slightly cooler than the living space. Outside varied from daytime 35 *f to the windy night -57*f chills ! (Northern Michigan).
I think it’s hilarious that a stupid “personal air conditioner” ad plays before this channel’s videos after he very thoroughly trashed them for the ripoff junk that they are!
Lmao
That's google for you, the greed machine
@@musicmugger666 To be fair, it's Alec who tells Google what ads he wants to get paid for on his channel and videos. So, moreso his "greed" and our willingness to watch. RUclips Vanced and Blokada will block these, however.
@@orangejjay what? youtubers don't have control over what ads google plays before their videos, at most they can control how many they allow (if nobody claims the monetisation) and where.
Just like how Christian ads play before certain atheism related channels. I remember I used to watch one of those channels that expose questionable religions and cults, and an ad for a Bible app used to play almost exclusively to all viewers lmao
excellent video as usual, i would to add one bit of info that i didnt catch here, deep cycle batteries have something called "dod" or "depth of discharge". i was experimenting with this the summer of 2020 and i learned ignoring this approach will significantly hurt its ability to charge fully up. for example: when i drained a 100ah battery down to 10.5 volts every day a few times a day, and then fully charge it back up i lost a little bit of amp hours. my guess is that at first i had 105ah, then the second cycle i got 103, then 102, then 101.5, then 99, then 98, etc etc, by the time i stopped doing this to my battery, it had reached a point where i was only getting about 84ah out of this brand new battery and it only took me a few cycles every day for about 2 weeks to see that much of a loss. for the record i think i was draining at a rate of about 500watts for maybe about 5 hours, which would be 2500wh, or 2.5kwh. anyways, most deep cycle batteries have a "dod" rating and at best its 50%. so if you have a 100ah battery, you should only drain 50ah out of it. so in the case of this video your battery might last exactly 8 hours or a tad more, but your battery will be nearly 100% drained. you should double your batteries. simply getting two of them and wiring them for a parallel 12v circuit, this will double your ah from 75 to 150 then you can safely discharge to 75ah on the two batteries. btw i did hear you about the low wattage draw may allow for you to extend the run time, just my two cents almost 2 years late
Wow, this Home Backup video is great! It's so important to have a reliable power source when you're camping or spending quality time with the family. The Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series seems like a perfect fit with its massive capacity, fast recharging, and waterproof technology. Thanks for sharing this recommendation!
Thank you for your comment! I completely agree with you about the importance of having a reliable power source when camping or spending quality time with family. The Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series sounds like a fantastic option with its massive capacity, fast recharging, and waterproof technology. It's definitely worth considering for anyone in need of a reliable home backup power solution. Thanks for sharing your recommendation!
You know, I've watched a ton of your videos, and am just now stumbling on this one. I'd love to see more TC Projects in the future! Your explanation and presentation style make topics like this a treat.
Great video. If I may, I would suggest two minor changes. 1) Rather un-plugging and re-plugging from the wall outlet, simply get a slightly larger battery charger, leave THAT plugged in, and constantly charge the battery, even when the power is on. 2) Ditch the separate UPS, and run through the batter and inverter continuously, as this is essentially just a larger UPS.
Hooked me with the hurricane lantern video. Definitely my favorite science/geek channel. Your attention to detail and willingness to take it to the deep end is satisfying to follow. Keep up the outstanding work!
I'm curious how well this setup has served now that it's had ten months to be put to the test
I'm curious to know how well this setup has served now that *gestures generally*
I run my house offgrid and for his mum to run 58 watts for 8 hrs safety staying above 50% depletion of battery he would have to get at least 4 more of thoes batteries wired in parallel
@@chadwolfeschledgelsteinhau9697 what batteries would you recommend specifically? And what would the charge scenario for parallel? Would you charge the batteries individually or would you charge them together in parallel?
@@pfideonow i would get 4 31class deepcycle with a victron mppt and actually wire the 4 batterys in series parallel 24 volt if i had a 24 volt inverter but lets say 12 volt with victron 30/100 take it off grid permanently and never worry about it, that way you can always double or quadruple the batree bank n the futcher and take the refrigerator and afew more tvs offline permanently . 12v sucks i know! For better performance instead of 4 12v lets do 2 24v ! But yeah to take a tv and fridge off line permanently you need min of 8 preferably 10 batteries 31class true deep cycle wired m parrell 12v with victron 30/100 blue controller with 4 170 wat pannels 12v wired in series bringing the max incoming v upwards of 75 85 volts under the 100max v for the controller 😀👍 or 2 300 watt 24 v idk the numbers but wire the pannels in series gets incoming volts up there ! Very good for low light. Work out the numbers! You wont hit absorbsion on low light days but bats will get charge mabey take 1 aplience off just keep a eye on the 12.3 if you're bank number hits that without load cut everything off. Even in low light days on end that setup will run fridge 24/7
@@pfideonow caharge all together ❤ with victron mppt! Go to battrys and bulbs, or rurule king to get true deep cycle some farm stores u can get cheap ask for discount batree bank is big investment dont missmatch also you dont need domgel for the victron controler you can adjust manually i have mine 1 number up from the setting it comes with i think its set on 3. Juices up bats 14.7 v for 1 hr through absorbition
Just recently came across this one (3yrs later) and still found this interesting. I didn't know about the sponginess of the plates. That makes sense with how "car" grade lead acids will die in short order when fully cycled a few times.
I recently took a server grade UPS (altho it is old and it not a rack mount unit; SU2200 for those interested) and I hooked up 8x 6V batteries to it. They are old as well, but because they are Golf Cart batteries (well, they were used in forklifts) they are "designed" for heavy use and constant high load applications "and" to last a long time. They aren't perfect, but they can keep my servers and work computer + 2x monitors online for at least 30 mins, and that's about 1500watts of load.
A modified UPS makes for a great backup. Yank out the factory battery, add an extension to the wires, and connect to any 12V battery. Just don't run it for a hours on end unless it's rated for 2x your actual load. Otherwise, you'll overburden the electronics and actually melt components (don't ask how I know 😜)
I made my off grid type power system by running all my electronics including TV, DVD, Computer, etc. off of a power inverter full time. I used a generator during certain times of the day or night. The battery bank was 8 Trojan 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in a series/parallel configuration to give me 12 volts with a good capacity run time. During the times generator was running there is a fairly large current battery charger that recharges the bank of batteries. With this set-up there is never a loss of power or even a glitch. No switching sources or manual transfer switching. Even automatic transfer switches cause a split second power loss. Because they electro-mechanically move contacts from one power source to another by the use of a relay. I found this set-up best, for living in an RV as I do. The system I speak of above was what I had set-up for my motorhome several years ago. I now have a larger newer RV. A 37 foot 5th wheel trailer with 4 slide out rooms. Its bigger and has more amenities than some of my friends apartments! Washer/dryer combo in bedroom closet with all the hookups like in a regular home. Central vacuum system, simulated fireplace wich is also an electric heater. It has forced air heating for the regular heating powered by propane. Built-in 5500 watt generator that also runs on propane.
What I'm planning on doing is using solar power and inverter generators as my two primary power sources being theres no utility power where I am living. I will do the same setup for non interrupted power. I'm hoping I will be able to run one RV aircondtioner during the day by solar power suppling enough battery current above whats being pulled. The RV has two air conditioners so on really hot days I can run generators to run both or one. I need to figure out my battery bank setup and true sine inverter wattage. Might use two inverter and separate the AC from other loads. Also plan to try out wind generators also.
Great video especially about the categories of batteries. I didn't think about marine batteries as being a bit of both deep cycle and starting battery. I just assumed they were a deep cycle battery with the name marine for the boating industry. 👍
Huh, using a small UPS as a kind of "transfer switch" is actually really useful, glad I watched the whole video :D
I do something similar in my home office. I have a 24V 2kW inverter that feeds from solar/AGM batteries. My office is all plugged into a UPS which can either plug into the grid or my inverter with a moments effort. Handy on sunny days where I can run my 100-300W load off the sun "for free" :-)
A UPS that small is really only useful for laptops and monitors. Power hungry desktops will need a much much larger battery.
Next to automate the throwing of the transfer switch.
@@recklessroges There are charger/inverters designed for RV's and boats that do exactly this. While you're plugged into shore power it both charges the batteries and supplies the shore power directly to outlets. As soon as you unplug, it automatically switches to battery power. I'm pretty sure it's instant.
@@ZeldagigafanMatthew The point of an UPS is not to work with its power. The idea is that you can shut down nicely. With a laptop one really needs no UPS unless one has external hard disks.
I recently added a battery backup to my security system. With a small 12V 7AHr lead acid battery I can power my 8 cameras + DVR + router + ethernet switch for about 1.5hrs. As I needed to mount the backup in a safe (to prevent theft) using a larger battery like the one in this video was not an option. I also didn't need an inverter as all components I chose will use 12VDC or lower natively, which saves a bit of power to not have to go DC->AC->DC.
For a work station though, creating such a setup for your mother must be a godsend for her. If you find out why the electricity in the home is so spotty, that might make for a good video if something with the power company or the home's wiring can be determined. :)
That small charger would work even during a big power outage. At 72W output, and lets say moms setup uses 80W with the 70W spike and power loss, that leaves 10W for the battery to compensate for. 10W for 8H + 16H of the setup being powered down, means that little charger should be able to keep the entire setup going for a multi-month blackout 😮.
Thank you for this video, my area is suffering from multiple blackouts a month (usually seconds to minutes). I have 2 tropical fish tanks (canister filters, heaters, lights, the whole 9 yards). I'm going to be using this info to build a powerbank capable of sustaining 500W max for 12 hours in case there is a long term blackout (this takes into consideration losses, and other things you mentioned, measured with a Kill-A-Watt (430W peak+losses)). I love your videos, and appreciate how in depth you go.
Thank you for everything. 😊
Alec should have Cinebenched his mom's PC to provide a real worst case scenario for power draw 😂
I used to work in a warehouse where we used electric forklifts that used massive lead-acid batteries. Those things were frankly kind of scary. They were easily capable of many thousands of Amps of output in a short scenario (they powered both the drive and the hydraulic pumps), and even under normal charging conditions, hydrogen build-up was a serious concern (they were placed in a special ventilated, explosion-resistant area while charging every night. The chargers themselves pushed somewhere in the range of 300A if I remember correctly. These batteries also got cycled to around 15% every day, or almost completely discharged on a busy day. The interesting thing about them is that they had to be 'watered' every month or so. Each cell had a removable cap on the top and a fill line, and you would fill to the fill line with DISTILLED water only. My understanding is that the electrolyte would dry up over time and turn into a powder which needed to be re-hydrated.
Electric fork lifts (and golf carts too, for that matter) use water because they are deliberately overcharged, turning the water into hydrogen and oxygen. They do this to balance the cells so that some don't get undercharged and damaged. The electrolyte in lead acid batteries is a solution of sulfuric acid in water, and any "powder" present is from the plates of the battery.
Interesting... I do remember them using water faster when the chargers were in their 'fast charge' mode (presumably very aggressive voltages / potentially overcharging). How does the hydrogen/oxygen from the water help balance the cells? Or do you mean balancing a change within each cell itself? Interesting stuff!
The hydrogen/oxygen is a byproduct of the balancing operation. When a "balancing charge" is performed on a battery, the normal voltage regulation is bypassed and the battery is charged to a higher voltage than normal. As a cell becomes fully charged, it can't accept any more current and will begin to "gas" (produce hydrogen/oxygen). This has no effect on the fully charged cell (other than using up water), but it DOES allow the cell to keep conducting current so that other cells can continue to charge. On golf cart chargers and fork lift chargers, the actual mechanism is that the voltage across the battery is monitored and when it reaches "fully charged" voltage a timer is started. The timer lets the charger continue to run for a pre-set amount of time to allow balancing to occur before shutting off. This means that the battery is always overcharged for a period of time, which "uses up" water, which has to be replaced.
@@wb5mctAh, I understand. This explains why some cells would end up using more water than others, because the cells that were at a lower voltage before balancing would use less water, while the higher voltage cells use up more water 'waiting' for the lower voltage cells to reach their level. For those reading, a 'balancing' charge is a special charge performed on a mainteance schedule, usually 'once every X charges', that ensures that the voltage of each individual cell in the battery are as closely matched as possible, as an unbalanced battery of cells will survive fewer charge/discharge cycles, and will likely have a shorter life. Thank you for your insight, Harvey!
@@PhonyBread you've got it!
You're kind to offer the fast forward time but I'm here to learn things while I do mindless stuff at work! 😁
You deserve the best support because , 1 you fully analyse something , 2 you are respectfull guy and 3 you have a good humor . I know you have .
That is an excellent practical engineering presentation. Thank you!
I did something similar for similar reasons. However, I picked up a used rackmount UPS on Ebay for cheap, one that allows for a 36v add-on battery. Instead of the expensive official battery, I used three deep cycle batteries. This has the added benefit of being monitored as a standard UPS without really any added cost. And sort of looks more professional.
I had a similar situation occur here in Colorado, power was going out during the virus outbreak of 2020, because I was working from home.. made things annoying. So I purchased a UPS strong enough to support all my office equipment, but the power didn't last long, maybe an hour at best, so we have a golf cart we use to get around the community. I wired up a plug from the internal battery of the UPS, so I could easily run an extension wire from the UPS to the Golf Cart to use the battery bank it had since we always keep it on the trickle charger. I was able to run this for an entire day no problem one day when we lost power for nearly 8 hours in the middle of the day. It was a game-changer.
Nice. I am self employed in a rural area (internet retail) and have to worry about power too. I have lithium for now but possibly going to AGM so I can have more storage. I use solar to charge mine. Came in really handy when we lost power for a week in March. Runs my whole business (including LTE internet, no hardwire available). BTW- I have that exact same inverter which has worked well.
I imagine this information can be transferred directly to a camper, substituting a solar panel for the slow charger. Thumb up.
Exactly what I was contemplating when I clicked on here. Now all I need are the panels & a deep-cycle battery (because I killed my brand new truck battery by discharging it one time too many). 😲
Live and learn
First a little FYI for anyone wanting to try this. Instead of paying the core charge for a new battery, go to a junk years and ask to buy one of the many junk batteries they have. Typically they will either give you one for $10-$20.
I’m a diesel mechanic and I have over 20 years experience working on anything with wheels. Even so one like myself got some new knowledge about batteries from the first 7 minutes of this video. When I go to teach my kids about how batteries work they will be watching this video.
Man, this channel is getting better and better ! 👍🏻
I was really quite impressed by this episode. It's so unassuming for the depth of detail it contains. It's remarkable in that respect.
@@Peter_S_ Yes, so much detail in such a short video, and yet is easy to follow and understand.
Favorite battery brand plug:
I *love* my Odyssey AGM deep cycle. They're expensive but have a massive reserve and are deep cycle. Plenty of CCA. Plus, sealed, so no off gassing!!
I’ve had some 105AH AGMs for 20 years at an off grid place. I’ve done some load testing and they are at close to 90% of original rating. They run an old Trace 4048 Inverter. Most places I worked in telecommunications we used wet cells. I worked at one place and we had 2v cells that were 1675AH.
She is blessed to have you nearby. I could set this up for my folks, but I’d have to fly over there every time the power went out (and when it came back on).
This is one of my favourite channels ever.
...if this guy was the same age back in the 80's this show would have came on right after kid bitz!
I have some experience with generators and battery backup, and liked this video (as usual). Good that you showed us how to find a ground at the outlet ("but check to make sure it's good," as you said, but I bet a lot of people won't know how. Not hard; simple testers with LED lights or a multimeter, but....).
Also liked that little device that showed percentage of charge in the battery. (Except I wouldn't have connected it as a bare wire, but I confess to being anal about loose connections. Have seen them being the source of a problem so many times.)
Only other thing I'd do is buy an inexpensive but robust power strip. Plug it in, leave it up on the desk. Then your poor mother won't have to crawl under the desk to plug and unplug the equipment when power goes out and comes back. She'll just flip the switch on the strip. (You want to make this as user friendly as possible.) But a good explanation, and I bet a lot of folks find it a model for their similar situation.
Steve K I don't understand your idea about the power strip, can you please elaborate further? I would like to understand
Sure. What I'm saying is that instead of plugging the UPS into the wall outlet, plug it into a power strip. The power strip must have an On/Off switch and be placed somewhere on the desk, as behind a monitor. (Go to about 14:20 of the video.) The power strip doesn't have to be expensive or include any protection devices. It's just a simple way of controlling electricity to the UPS. (One could easily build a small box that included a switch and an outlet and have a "power strip," but the switch and outlet would cost almost as much as the simple power strip we could buy at any thrift store.)
Another advantage to using a power strip mounted where it's easily reached is when there's lightning nearby. At those times, UPS or no UPS, it's best to unplug electrical equipment from the outlet. So simply turn off the UPS, then unplug it from the power strip (which is readily accessible up on the table or desk). The power strip can stay plugged into the outlet. If it gets destroyed, so what, a few bucks for a new one. After the storm passes, plug the UPS back in, power it on, and we're back in business.
Hope that helps.
You're still not fully fleshing out your power strip idea - if the power strip's still plugged in I'm not seeing how you can fully isolate the battery / inverter power from the grid and have the UPS connected at the same time (power companies really hate it when they think the power's out but you're supplying AC, you could even get in big trouble doing that & hurt/kill someone). Sounds like you're missing some DPDT switches to decide what powers the UPS and what's isolated. And then the ground is still connected (as it should be) but that could cause trouble in case of lightning, and the modem/network cables too
fdfoxter a transfer switch would be ideal but expensive, some of them are just DT switches (to isolate the main ac from the emergency ac) plus fuses anyway. OTOH, diy electrician work isn't always that safe, and not worth the cost savings if it voids your home insurance and there's an accident ;-)
@Steve, this isn't a turn on/turn off situation, but a "transfer" thing. I can't think of any way you can do that safely with a power strip. You need a DPDT switch (and it needs to be "break before make").
Stop, skip...? You know without a doubt why I'm here, talk about anything you want. You make everything special & interesting!
Thanks for this video! This helped me to understand what may have been going on with my car battery before I had it replaced. And the chemistry explanation was good, without having to go into the REDOX half-reactions 😀
16:40 just here to remind you
that WE NEED THAT VIDEO
PPPPPPPPPlease
Now we find ourselves in a post covid, work from home world. This video is very useful.
I plan to use a "slightly" larger battery. The 24 kW battery in an old LEAF until my grand daughter gets her permit. After which I will need another battery or three. Thx for all the info and tips.
Man I know this is an old episode but I hope you do more like this in the future.
One plus would be to include automatic switching to the backup system. This would cover things if the 20 minute UPS time was exceeded. Also why not keep the maintenance charger connected continuously? Excellent video in all.
When I am away from home I want my computer to stay powered up in event of a prolonged power outage (e.g., 2 hr). A UPS will not suffice. So this video was SUPERB in explaining how to accomplish what I want. Thanks for the detail. I will cost this approach out vs an in-place propane powered small power generator. Thanks again!
In case you are doing it to your own equipment and are 100% certain you know what you are doing, it's very much more efficient to forgo the inverter and power everything from 12 volts directly, without their included power supplies, by simply adding a sufficient fuse in series. It can boost your run time by several orders of magnitude, but if your equipment is leased like in this case, Alec's solution is best.
@thatbillguy5211 ELI5 please. What would this setup use? (Edit:add @thatbillguy5211)
@@cocobobo5962 Most electronics with a round power connector are 12V (laptops being the main exception), so you can just get a cable with that connector at one end and battery clamps on the other. For USB powered device a small buck converter can drop it to 5V. Another thing of note is that most switched mode power supplies can also take a DC input with the required voltage being multiplied by the √2 (e.g. 325V DC instead of 230V AC), although running DC at those voltages in a DIY project gets a bit more risky.
"Look at that! Society coming together to solve a problem and nobody's complaining about it."
This is way to topical of a joke for a 2 and a half year old video.
Just wait for Karen to post a conspiracy theory on the lead acid batteries!
Also the wfh joke
This joke has been topical at nearly every point in history and probably prehistory. People can be dumb.
You could say it’s society coming together to solve a problem ... or you could say that incentives matter. It turns out that when materials are relatively scarce companies go out of their way to recycle them, whether it’s car batteries or aluminum cans (for business reasons, not ideological or emotional ones). There have been examples of recycling you wouldn’t have dreamed of, but are a real thing, like some poor Asian people cleaning and recycling condoms (yuck!). Yes that’s real. Incentives matter.
I once watched a video on how lead-acid batteries are recycled. The comment section was filled the the brim with people complaining about how unsafe that is and how bad for the environment that must be, all those “fumes” escaping into the atmosphere. I’m no expert and have done very little research, but I’m 99% positive that recycling the lead, sulfuric acid, plastic, etc is significantly better for the environment than throwing the batteries into a landfill and mining new lead and sulfur and creating new plastic. Humanity depresses me so much
This proves number of subscribers doesn't justify quality of channel. This man deserves to be in top 10 channels of RUclips
I still don't understand why we invert DC to AC in order to power devices which convert it all back to DC anyway
Because it's a lot simpler than configuring individuals DC power supplies for each item to be powered. Some need 5 volts. Some need 9 volts. And some things (like the monitors) have no DC input. It does seem silly, but one slightly inefficient supply that works with everything is much simpler than a bunch of individual DC supplies.
Transmission of DC over long distance is very impractical.
Buss1000; see Pacific DC Intertie en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_DC_Intertie
Try running (europe) 230v dc over your home power network and put it under load XD everything would melt or burn/smoke
Because those are devices with a power supply designed to be powered from Mains power, though some things can run directly off battery power if the batteries output is close to what the device needs. They do also make 12 volt (Pico) power supplies for computers but they tend to be pretty weak (180-250 watt range) so they wouldn't be able to power a beefy computer setup
Excellent video except, in my experience, we always lose our Internet connection when the power goes out. The cable company (Comcast in this case) also relies on the same power grid. If the power is out for us, it's also out for Comcast. Did I miss something? Is her Internet connection wireless?
In this case, it's a little complicated. The ISP is using traditional twisted pair phone lines and DSL. They have rarely ever lost phone service, as the phone company has to provide generous backup power for that. I can't say for sure if they maintain the DSL connection during outages, but I would be surprised if they don't.
Further complicating things is that the development they are in is fed by multiple incoming branches, so often times they will lose power while their nearby neighbors do not. When this happens, the phone company's equipment probably still has power anyway.
It's very location dependent. Both my dad's house (on a ranch, very rural) and my office (big building in a big city) have network access during power failures. Dad's house is served by a buried fiber with redundant power on a different circuit than the electric mains. My office internet will actually work until the UPS on the network switch runs out of juice.
Exactly. I also have DSL internet, and a 1200va (24v) ups hooked up to 2 external deep cycle batteries. Modem / router / switch is on a different ups. I have the alarm silenced on my desktop ups. I was playing an online game with the lights out once night and lost power. Only way I knew something was up was my laptop beside me turned on it's screen because it went to battery from ac power. Other than that, no interruption at all. 2 hours later power came back and everything was fine. I also get about 8 hours on my ups setup. (the ups seems to deal with extended battery runtime ok. I've done 4-5h battery tests to verify. It turns on it's internal fan, but is otherwise fine. I also run about 150w idle, and ~700w under gaming load)
our phone line also is dead when there is no power- it used to have its own power but that is gone since fast internet and voip is a thing (so basically before isdn)- mobile internet (lte) would most likely still work- but that also depends on where the cell tower is located- but all in all I have to say that we only ever had one single unplanned outage in my whole life
+Technology Connections Yeah older ADSL tends to be more robust there as the DSLAM is generally all the way back at the exchange which likely has full generator backup. Newer VDSL etc not so much as the DSLAM is out in a cabinet in a nearby street and those draw enough power that they need a separate mains connection the voltage on the phone line was never designed for equipment anywhere near that power hungry.
Is anyone else here for the smarmy yet confident commentary
I love this channel
@Technology Connections it sounds like a lot of us want to hear how this setup has been holding up. It might even be time to upgrade it--swap the battery for one of those all-in-one battery devices people can use while camping. They are pretty nice, reasonably cheap, can output AC and DC to all of your devices, and best of all they are designed for just this situation. Most of them also come with a connector for solar panels so you can extend your runtime. And if she is dealing with these outages during business hours then solar makes good sense, especially given how cheap the panels are getting and the small amount of power her setup takes.
pretty neat solution! Let me suggest a simple bypass/failover circuit made of off the shelf parts (relays, rectifier, capacitors...) to automagically switch the APC UPS between mains and inverter, and remotely kickstart the inverter, it would cost you no more than $15 to build.
Make a video and show us.
You can buy those ready-made. It's called an automatic transfer switch.
Batteries, chargers, and inverters. I love that you're playing my music.
I created a similar install using a deep-cycle AGM battery (e.g. yellowtop), 12V charger/converter, and pure sine inverter. I use it to power my home theater gear such as processor, streaming devices, OLED TV, htpc, etc., (except amplifiers), as well as my home network including POE switch that drives the security cameras and a PC running NVR, and even a Raspberry Pi running Home Assistant.
I chose AGM because it rarely off-gasses hydrogen unless it is being overcharged, and because I don't regularly discharge it deeply, such as in solar installations. A quality charger/converter is capable of producing clean DC power to an inverter while keeping a battery charged.
In the event of utility power loss, there is no switching such as found in a UPS. It was already running on the 12V circuit and the loss simply means the charger de-energizes. And it avoids the power factor loss associated with daisy chaining a UPS from a converter/inverter/converter/inverter. And my home theater enjoys a clean power signal unencumbered by my refrigerator and other noisy devices such as LED lighting.
I set this up about five years ago and it has been virtually maintenance-free. It keeps all my gear running during frequent power outages until our automatic standby generator kicks in.
Hopefully one day I can turn watching educational RUclips content from a weird hobby into a full time job.
Watch things -> build the things -> sell the things!
Great video. I would like to see an update that considers the advantages of other battery types. Lithium batteries are still rather expensive, but an AGM battery might be a good fit for what you want to accomplish. I recently put four AGM's ($200 each) into my Motorhome to get a total of 400 Ah. As long as I don't allow them to discharge below 50%, they will stand many (many) recharge cycles over many years. So, I effectively have 200 Ah of useable battery power, day to day, with zero gasses because an AGM battery is sealed tight. Also, you might consider an inverter with a built-in charger. Then, no more cord swapping for Mom.
I can't believe he didn't mention gas or fume dangers. Unless I missed it. Not everyone watching will think to get sealed batteries. An array of portable flywheels would be incredible.
Thank you for the video. It's the second time I watched it in full. I acquired 6 ups with dead batteries for free. I plan on converting then to lithium with a built in lithium battery charger. Adding a volt meter/fuel gauge to the unit will let me know a head of time the state of health or soc before the annoy bepping from the ups low battery level.
I would like to add how I like it when you explain or over explain the topic of discussion in your video. You do it in a way that doesn't feel like you are dumbing it down. Great job.
This is not exceptionally different from a solar/lighting setup I use at festivals in the woods. A relatively inexpensive charge circuit (about $15-20) and a solar panel round it out. My setup has a smaller battery, but is also running 12V lighting & cell phone charging rather than an inverter/computers. If you're interested, you can get E27-socket 12V LED bulbs on Amazon, and repurpose cheap lamps from IKEA or similar that you can screw the bulbs directly into, and connect in parallel to the inverter. Just don't accidentally connect 'em into mains - I cut the plug off the lamps so I can't, and re-wire them with barrel connectors so I can add/remove devices as needed.
Was there ever a follow-up video comparing battery chemistry? I can’t find it if it exists :(
Either way, I love this channel so much. This is just one of countless videos that I’ll never regret watching more than once. Someone worthy of my Patreon patronage 💚
A great solution to a very specific problem and a great economic alternative to otherwise expensive portable solar power stations. Excellent presentation.
I sware this is the best channel you explain everthing so well I am only 13 so it makes it a lot simpler
Aside from the charming presentation, one of TC's greatest strengths is providing a fair bit of context -- the more connections our brains can form with pre-existing information the better they remember and process stuff.
I can hear the APC unit on the left crying in the corner and saying "Am i a joke to you?" Dude, just hook up the APC unit to your new Deep Cycle battery and that is it. Job done. You can also buy APC units that allow you to hot swap batteries if you are interested.
I dunno about the one on the video but mine only takes a 6v battery.
TGOTR You can use a DC to DC converter to reduce the 12V battery's output to 6V.
@rochajoel: Good idea to swap the APC battery for bigger one, but the APC company is not such a dumb. I have experimented with this possibility and the APC unit inverters (three types, all less than 1000W) are all switched off after some time period (99 minutes or so) even if the battery is still almost fully charged (checked by its volatge). After some googling, I have find some 'explanation' by APC, that it is 'safety' measure. I can live with that information, but I will never buy another unit from this company, because there is no technical reason for such a limitation.
Last but not least, there are videos about such a battery replacement on youtube and elsewhere, but it seems to me, that no one tried to make this long runnning tests with the device which power consumption is so low, that it should run for hours on 'bigger' battery...
TGOTR you can get 6VDC batteries deep cycle.
It's a good idea, but there are some potential gotchas.
Those APC units have no fan. So when operating as an inverter, they tend to get hotter and hotter. They rely on the limited battery capacity to ensure that they don't get hotter & hotter for too long!
So, if you substitute a huge battery, you'll need to add a cooling fan. But, from the info that Jarda HYBNER
posted, it sounds like the setup still won't work, at least with many UPS models, due to the "timeout" feature.
I can't believe I've binged your content multiple times, subscribed to you, AND I've been searching for diy battery backup tutorials for weeks now and youtube has only JUST recommended this video.
I can't believe I didn't even notice it while scrolling through your channel.
if the charge indicator was made by apple, one of the bits directly powering the backlight would probably be the most effective fuse
Good episode! Clear and logical presentation. You are an excellent teacher!
I have pretty much exactly this setup to power my daily driver PC - which uses about 70W including modem/router, and monitor - except I have a LiFePO4 battery instead of lead acid, rated 100 amp hours at a 1 hour discharge rate, and a 13.8V bench supply connected across the battery to keep it fully charged from the mains - the 600W pure sine wave inverter can keep the setup running for over 12 hours if the power goes out (I've had the battery for over 10 years and it's still going strong).
Awesome video, really enjoy how you explain things!
Be advised that some golf cart batteries are 8 volts! Just don't assume a golf cart battery will automatically work.
"SOME" golf cart batteries are 8 VOLTS, not all. You can buy 6V, 8v and 12V golf card batteries. I have a Club Car that takes six 8V batteries. If you want to make it awesome get two 12v batts in parallel, or two 6v batts in series.
ningen if they buy an 8V battery and connect it without checking that's just natural selection it better just pull a lipo on them
Battery backups are great but have you considered a radioisotope thermoelectric generator? You don't know the meaning of uninterruptable power until you've experienced 30 years of unstoppable wattage and a mild case of radiation poisoning!
Seriously though this channel is amazing and it would be cool if you did a video on alternative methods of off-grid power, i.e. consumer-accessible wind and solar.
Good look getting your hands on the radioactive elements needed for such battery.
From so often, having to go through much detail to help folks understand having a backup electrical supply and it's not that difficult and safer than it may seem, can be tiresome.
Thank you for sharing this information in a plain easy to understand manner.
I'll be sharing this video.
This video is so what I needed. I can’t thank you enough for making it.