The single biggest shame about this, is the fact that we won't ever get an actual Final Fantasy 7 Remake, because of the new trilogy. It really would have been nice to experience Final Fantasy 7 with modern graphics, voice acting, facial expressions, a few rough spots smoothed out, ETC. But that ship has sailed.
@@JubileeWins The thing is, all of those things are different unique and new stories. The Remake trilogy is covering the original story (hence why they are able to convince people the lie that its actually a remake.), so its more likely that they would see it as redundant. And that is before we even get into the fact that they just don't have the balls to release a story like original FF7 anymore. They can't even comprehend the concept of having morally grey characters anymore. Lastly, it would require them to admit that they lied through their teeth about this trilogy being a remake of the original game. In short, I'll believe it when I see it. But I most definitely won't be holding my breath.
@@zacharyrichardson770 That would be nice. But we all saw how "remaking" Final Fantasy 7 went this time. Current Square doesn't have the balls to remake a game like Final Fantasy 7. I'll believe it when I see it.
There's something depressingly funny about FF7R getting completely uprooted and turned into some shitty abomination where all it's themes are lost in a sea of 5 hour essay theory videos for the next decade. But Crisis Core, a game with a fucking awful story and dialogue, who's only redeeming qualities are Zack Cloud and Aerith, is absolutely untouched in that regard.
Retroactively adding multiverses or time travel to a story that wasn't originally built for it is almost always a bad idea. But, if nothing else, it gives me an excuse to subscribe to the idea that there's an FF7 universe where only the events of the original game are canon and nothing else is.
In that respect i feel that is a stronger argument for remake. Remake can stand on its own free to do its own thing instead of being beholden to the original. Its not a replacement of the original and as such Remake arguably makes the original even more relevant. Think of it this way. Are there any other 1-1 remakes you would play versus the original solely because they look better or play better. The remake of OoT for instance is a better looking version of the N64 original. Another example would be Twin Snakes which i feel often is unfairly derided. Mei Ling's voice was change which actually made more sense since she was born in America. Some people hated the first person saying the levels werent redesigned for it making the game too easy...yet its not required. You can play through the entirety of Twin Snakes as a purist if you choose. The other criticism of Twin Snakes are the cinematics. Key point yo remember is that the cinematic director was known for his bullet time style and even he initially wanted to stick closer to the source material but it was Kojima that pushed him to inject more of his style. Im just saying that Remake and the original both can coexist. Remake doesnt replace the original which I feel is something a lot of remakes kind of end up doing.
@@Linkman247 The problem is that the ongoing production of FF7 Remake is actively stalling the amount of time we have to wait for a proper remake of the original game (if it ever happens at all). Remake was originally marketed as being an accurate recreation of the original game's story, but instead, it ended up being a sequel installment with a remixed version of the original story. That false advertising is a big part of why it's received such mixed reception. Perhaps it has merit on its own, but it's not what it was promised to be, and because of its ongoing production, the thing people were originally hoping for is no longer on the table for the foreseeable future.
@@AuraLeafstorm Not necessarily. If they are going to do a 1-1 remake of the original? They will probably adhere close to the original structure meaning the backgrounds, etc. and character models would likely be updated with most of the combat systems, and such still in place. The money they receive from this could be invested into further projects. But again if folks want a remake of the original? You can already kind of get that with the likes of Mods and Ai upscaling of the original. They also put out evercrisis which is probably the closest we get to a true 1-1 remake but from my understanding that game turns into a grind past a certain level due to it being free to play. While I understand the desire for a 1-1 remake? I don't feel that it was "False advertising." Subversive? Sure. But I think a remake carries with it an implication that it's open to whatever the creative team wants to do. Take films for instance. True Grit with John Wayne is a classic. But they remade it many years later with a new cast, but they didn't just retell the same story. They put their own spin on it. Yet the new title is still True Grit same as the original. The developer interviews have revealed that if they were going to do a remake they should do it before they got any older. Many of the original developers are working on this so in that sense this is the "Remake" they wanted to do. Whether you agree with that or not is of course up to you. But I can look at other games even that have had marketing that is intended to mislead the audience. Metal Gear Solid is a perfect example. Especially when many people thought they would be playing the game as Solid Snake...not Raiden. I should also point out that the demo they put out iirc had whispers in it. The subversion as they present it in remake works when they largely adhere to the main story beats. This also holds true in rebirth by the way. Your core progression through the world closely mirrors the original with some slight deviations here or there. I won't go into more because of spoilers. But I view the whispers as a kind of allegory for us the players wanting to keep things the same. TLDR: As I said above the word remake implies that something can be reinterpreted. The actual definition is... "make (something) again or differently." Is it possible they bungle the ending? Sure. But I am keeping an open mind and the game so far has given me that feeling I had when i played the original not knowing what to expect.
@@Linkman247 If they want their "own thing" then just literally make their "own thing"! Why piggy-back off a famous IP like FF7 (and wreck it!) to make their "own thing"?!!
The lead up and eventual introduction of Sephiroth as a character during the Kalm flashback is one of the few times in gaming history where gaming as a storytelling medium is utilized to nearly its full potential. There are no epic cinematic introduction showing how evil he is, or a bunch of characters telling you he is the bad guy because this or that. He is just a soldier in a convoy slightly annoyed by an overly enthusiastic "Cloud". Then suddenly the vehicle stops and you are in a turn based encounter with a dragon with only you and him in your party. He is able to easily 2 shot the dragon with damage unheard of by this point in the game and every enemy attack either deals 0 damage or misses completely. After the battle concludes and bit time in town you set off to the reactor the devs take it one step further as you are able to view him in your party and find he is lvl 50 and has a Gold Armlet and a full set of Mastered Materia. For the rest of the sequence just sit back mesmerized by while carries your lvl 1 ass wondering why he even bothers reviving you. All the while narratively you watch a calm, cold, calculated and seemingly very sensible soldier suddenly driven mad by a realization about himself and his past. The amount of narrative pacing, nuisance and confidence to introduce your main antagonist this way is nothing short of brilliant and I think it is one of the main reasons Sephiroth is among the most iconic villains in gaming. He isn't simply described to you by others, you don't just view his evil deeds, you know he is a threat because you have interacted with it and experienced it for yourself.
@@6cmcnc6 In the og ff7 Sephiroth was a famous rank1 soldier and many characters mentioned him in the first act: Midgar. He was said to be very strong but we did not see him until after Midgar in the town Kalm where Cloud tells his story in the Nibelheim incident. If you want a new story make a new IP. If something is good don't change it, and more importantly don't make it worse like the remake and rebirth did. The story was already concluded, finished, didn't need some fanfic sequel about multiverses. All that was needed in the remake was to make sense of the few plot holes in the og and recreate the game in better graphics. That is all.
@@6cmcnc6 We don't ned the exact same story, nor do we need a grand remake of a story that was already considered a masterpiece for decades. What we just want are going deeper into characters and lore where emotional and psychological attachments are still being made from the game. The problem with the remake and rebirth parts is that, instead of answering the plot holes of the games, we are introduced to even more plot holes and twists which are very much unnecessary. Remake and rebirth already did good in the first parts wherein they explored the characters so well. Problem is that the endings of both installments made the major events from the OG have lesser impact that it was before.
The dumbest thing about "everyone already knows Aerith dies" and "everyone already about Sephiroth" is there is so much more to the game. Cloud finding his real self is the actual biggest twist in the game. But there's no way that arc will work in the remake. Why are the devs so hung up on the two parts of the game that got memed the most?
Not to mention who gives a fuck if you know what happens I wanted to replay the story with better graphics maybe some added stuff like what they did with Jessie, Wedge and Biggs but additions are way different then radical changes. In some ways the game was falsely advertised it was advertised as a faithful remake the damn demo was faithful to a T then it releases and we have timeline ghost crap. The plate falling had so much less impact you thought everyone died you don't go back into it you don't see biggs Jessie wedge ever again because they die they didn't live you take away all that make none of its residence die makes it worthless mine as well not fall at all. Then you got Zack at the moment we no clue what their doing with that all I can think of is multiverse which would be stupid 1 because to many people are doing that and 2 it takes away from zacks death and clouds character. Then you got part 1 only being like the first few hours of the original and is somehow suppose to go through the rest in 2 games.
@@kl-nl3kv “financial perspective” is the problem. These games (anything modern square produces) aren’t made for the sake of storytelling or game-experiencing, they’re made *purely* as a product first. Anything that makes it what the board considers marketable is forced into the game and anything the actual writers and creative teams think would make the game better is all secondary
The opening scenes with Sephiroth in Remake seemed too derivative, like he's the devil or the Emperor in Star Wars. "Hold onto your hate," like he has a vested interest in turning Cloud evil or something. The OG Sephiroth was just interested in his own power, revenge on Shinra, and sense of purpose as "mother's son" (Jenova's "son") He tormented Cloud to confuse him, just enough to join the "Reunion" to give him Black Materia.
"I play the OG every year, but I want the remake to be totally new and unpredictable!" People don't realize how contradictory this is--if you replay the OG despite knowing the story, then knowing the story is not a reason you would skip a faithful remake. Fact is, our favorite movies and games and books and shows, these are all things we love clearly in spite of knowing what happens therein, because it's the WAY the story is told, and the experience it provides, that matters, not just the plot progression--otherwise, we'd just read cliffnotes and be satisfied.
Why would we want it to be new and unpredictable? The goal would be for us to see things with fresh eyes, and to be able to show them to younger family members and friends so they can share that warm feeling with us. Its a chance to re-live a moment in time, and to walk through a story we love with someone else by our side this time.
No one wanted the remake to be "new and unpredictable". We just wanted the og story with updated graphics and gameplay. It's not a hard concept to get but I know it will still escape you.
is 3 time line the new thing you talk about ... cause if you wanted it like that good for you vast majority wanted same story with updated graphics but we know SE wouldnt do that
Not really, your argument assumes there's only one way to enjoy any piece of media or IP. re-playing or re watching/reading your favourites is an exercise in nostalgia and comfort, which is great. But experiencing something new for the first time is a totally different experience.
Two years later, and after playing Rebirth, I’m so glad I found this video to voice how I feel about the new games. It feels chintzy and cowardly and until now I felt like a dinosaur for feeling that way. Much appreciated
Square did almost everything I was afraid they were going to do. What sucks is there are swaths that are glimpses of what this could have been stripped of the multiversal, convoluted, contrived elements. It feels like AAA driven marketing drivvel: to make everyone happy, introduce a multiverse where whatever you want to be true can be.
As someone that didn't play the original before playing remake: I didn't know who sephiroth was in the original, not even knew that aerith dies in the original and knew nothing about the story, on that note, i played remake, found the story confusing, slow and boring since about half of the remake, while liking the gameplay a lot, and then played the original on the ps4 version, i enjoyed the story of the original infinetly more, and i hated most of the changes on remake's story. On OG: sephiroth was a manecing presence, a master manipulator, his backstory with cloud made we want to take him down and had impact. On remake: sephiroth was the guy that ramdomly appeard in cloud's nightmeres, said some ominous words, and pissed off, then randomly he is the final boss.
@@agamersinsanity i said in the coment, i already played the OG, but only after playing remake, wich is why i had that opinion, and then the OG became one of the few games i platined, alongside bloodborn, elden ring, nier automata and dmc 5, i loved the OG, wich is what made my opinion on remake even worse.
Sephiroth wasn't a master manipulator. That was Genova doing her thing early in the game. Sephiroth was just her puppet until he is 'revived.' I played the OG since grade school, in my thirties now and Remake I enjoyed, so really it varies from gamer to gamer. Also OG WAS complicated and confusing as there is so much going on, also you must've not played the OG game if you found it confusing. The only thing they changed were some dialogue and whispers. Stor wise it's not too different, just Sephiroth going peekaboo.
ooooooh that scene with the big bro and the little sister playing the game a generation apart just made me livid. I cant believe they blew the greatest game of all time!
"Can you understand why we're disappointed?" When I heard that question, at first I thought "no" and a few seconds later it turn into "I don't know" hearing the song and all the clips of the original. And seeing the case of FF7. It turned into a "yes" great editing on that part. My eyes started watering looking at that.
crazy how resident evil 2 & 4 who have had remakes that are very dedicated and you don't hear any complaints and that's because they didn't do anything drastic to the main story that made it unrecognisable-- but we are the unreasonable ones for wanting a dedicated remake of FF7
yeah... about that...ruclips.net/video/FcJGvS4f-HQ/видео.html and people saying resident evil 4 didnt need a remake as well.... so yes... theres complains about it, maybe you arent searching well, i remmebr so well that people still said the original is better, that before the DLC the cut content was bad etc etc. so yeah, RE4 and RE2 remakes did recieved criticism of changes and cut content... There was complaints but a lot of people loved it, same as FF7 remake. OH! and don't get me started in resident evil 3 remake... how badly people hated it.
@@ianfudo5040 LOL yeah I was about to say RE2 fans did nothing but complain about re2 remake until the game came out and shut them up. I remember one of the main complaints that the camera wasn't going to be overhead anymore. I was also one of the people who thought RE4 didnt need a remake. i wasn't against it I just thought that it was still good. glad they did though.
@@DellikkilleD yes, we get it. Its a sequal, thats obvious and that's why people hate it. It's also kind of stupid for sephiroth to know the events of what happened to him and still try to use black materia. Whispers of fate, parralell universes makes the themes of life and death of the original meaningless. Instead of immortalising the original they decided to go off and do their own thing, "the original still exists" yes it does, with its grammatical errrors & blocky 3D. It hasn't aged well, most gen z have not played it bcus it hasn't aged well.
Kuja is a villain that is constantly present in the story of FFIX. So why does he work and Sephiroth in remake does not? It's because we know, that he plays a big part from the first time we meet him. But we don't know what he is capable of. What his true endgame is. And when we find out how ruthless he is after betraying Brahne, we he becomes a driving factor in the story - but not omnipotent. Not a smirking douche, but a very powerful person with limits. This initiates a deliberate cat-and-mouse game between him and the party, concluding in basically the world world uniting against him. It works, because there are stakes for both sides, wich we can grasp even when missing some pieces. Sephiroth, at this point, is just a marketing tool. "Oh, he so strong. Wouldn't it be cool to go against such a cool and strong character?" Thats all there is. He is a fanfic wearing a Sephiroth costume.
I think the worst part is, that new players won't get as much of a desired experience out of this. Early sephiroth, defeating Destiny itself all that stuff just hits way less and make less sense without the context of the "original timeline"
New players won't care about those things because they already knew who Sephoroth was anyways since he's infamous in the video game world, and they didn't have the same expectations as VII veterans
@@joemarker1 The vast majority of new players in reality don't know who any of the original characters *actually* are. They are only familiar with a superficial veneer of the characters, gleamed from what they heard or experienced mostly from the compilation, which was already a big departure. The story and its themes shape the characters. And now, with this new departure, these new players will be denied the experience of both the original story beats and the actual characterization of its inhabitants. I think what they will experience is an inferior version but if they are satisfied with what they got, I say that is fine. Those who decide to play the original, will see and experience the difference. The only complaint that holds merit and I have too, is the false-advertisement, which could only happen once anyway. The good news is that because of all this, mods for the original FF7 went into overdrive, including a fully-voiced one that recently came out. So the experience got and will get even more love than ever before. And it deserves it.
@@geoa8071 I agree with your statement, I just don't see the issue. I'm probably just pissy because it looks to me like people didn't like the game, then try to make it seem like they are just looking out for the best interest of others. It makes no sense to give square the finger because of the poor souls who didn't play the original. I'm split on the false advertising thing too. If some feel they were mislead, I understand how they were disappointed. I myself was more intrigued than I would have been were it the case that the twist was more or less spoiled from the PR. Some people were out 60 bucks or more for something they didn't end up liking, and that's shitty. But if I buy a game on day one before any sales (which is extremely rare these days) I'm accepting the risk that I'm taking a gamble. That's cool about the modding community though. I don't have a gaming PC, but that sounds pretty sweet.
@@joemarker1 Oh trust me, fans of the original complaining about their pre-order/day-1 purchase bear a great degree of responsibility too. As "polarizing" a matter as this is made out to be, in reality, it isn't black-and-white at all. No matter how big of a share of blame one might want to thrust upon the devs, regardless of how deserving or undeserving it may be, as a consumer, one always must be responsible with their purchases. One should make sure that such an important purchase is as close to their expectations as possible as the entire current state of the modern gaming industry isn't ideal, unfortunately. Case in point, skepticism prevented me from pre-ordering or buying it on day-1. I checked up online what was going on with what I cared about the most (story, characterization) and ended up going "well, this isn't for me". And that was that. Everybody can and should vote with their wallet, and do so intelligently while they are at it. To everyone who liked this game, I say I'm glad you enjoyed it and hope the next installments are as enjoyable if not more. There really isn't a reason for an online war amongst different kinds of FF7 fans! ✌ P.S. If it ever piques your interest: 1. the requirements for the original are very low (PS1-era game after all), so no high-end gaming PC is necessary by any means 2. I don't imagine it will ever be unavailable on Steam, or more expensive than it is now (13 Euros currently, that should be no more than 14-15 US-dollars) 3. the 7th Heaven mod pack modernizes it as much as possible (not taxing the requirements either) and the Echo-S mod adds a high-quality full voice-over of the entire game. And the voice actors are great too!
@@geoa8071 That actually sounds like I might try it out. I'll keep those mods in mind and probably give it a shot sometime. Thanks! As for the rest, I completely agree. You're a reasonable internet person!
Hey, remember when fans said "You can't hate on The Phantom Menace, you have to wait until this entire new prequel trilogy is out before you can hate any one movie in it!" Yeah, that never happened--this is an entire, full-priced game, and deserves to be critiqued as an entire, full-priced game. Edit; oh hey, you brought up the same point moments later.
Yep. Dudes just another fanboi hoped on copium being pissy that the OGs don't approve. We don't approve because it's not the same game. It's literally a sequel masquerading as a "remake"
Final fantasy games worked because of the "lower" graphical worlds. The golden era of the 90s games weren't the fully polished, fully graphical realised games of the modern era. Just like reading a book, it was your imagination, filling in the blanks, which immersed you fully in the story, in tandem with the great story telling itself. You have to play the role of the character, and there must be your interpretation. With hi-fi graphical games of the ps5, an element of this is lost, and so too is the immersion.
What frustrates me about this whole conversation and people like me who disliked the Remake having to defend our stances is that it's not even about "preference" or caring about storytelling principles, or even about loyalty to Sakaguchi. Sakaguchi has long since moved on from Final Fantasy, but that doesn't mean we should just blindly accept whatever gets thrown at us during Remake. For me it's about how the Remake's changes fundamentally undermine the entire central theme of the original game. The original game's lore was structured and built around the idea of conveying both life and death, and how even though someone is truly dead they are never truly gone, they are always with you in spirit, in your thoughts, in your heart. How is the Remake supposed to get that point across now that any character can just be brought back to life at any point? How can the Remake properly convey both life and death with these new rules? They have completely changed what the entire story was built around. You can make these characters go down a different path, but that will ultimately just lead them to becoming different characters and a different story. The writers of Remake are just blatantly disrespecting the integrity of the original story, but all of the Remake supporters are just ignoring that and acting like it's always been this way when that isn't true. And what bewilders me the most is that these same Remake supporters then turn around and say that the people who dislike it are the ones being disrespectful when the Remake writers are the ones showing no respect or care for the original game's core themes.
@UCY8yM53Jus4xq-_ZGvXJuGg No that makes sense. And yes they were the ones who wrote og and are the ones doing the remake. It just seems to me like they just decided to change the fundamental themes of FFVII, also they are probably creating this based off of things that were added to ffvii lore later in the Compilation. I also don't know if the writing makes more sense or expresses the core themes of the og better in the original Japanese language. But from what it seems it just seems like they're undermining the core themes of the og.
Removing the victims of the plate collapse was a HUGE blunder. That part of the story raises the stakes. It shows the lengths Shinra is willing to go through to remove Avalanche as a threat, even going so far as to kill hundreds of innocent civilians. This is the company that created Sephiroth and, by proxy, he himself will stop at nothing to get what he wants. Having your own teammates survive the collapse reeks of contrivance and means we can no longer know when someone will truly be dead. That and they blew their Sephiroth load WAY too early. In the OG, you don't see him for the entire first part of the game. You just hear about him and what he has done. You know that he's "dead" because official reports say he is, but his body is never found. Then when he makes another appearance, you're shocked because you find out he survived. But at the same time, you had that seed of doubt when you know Shinra lies in their reports all the time. The story has layers, people! It has nuance! It has *consequences!!!*
One thing I never seen discussed anywhere is how some people just assume that if you didn’t like Remake then it means that you don’t like changes. I actually liked many of the new ideas and dialogues, but I also hated some of them (usually the most relevant ones). I don’t like how they were presented and I’m pretty sure that they could have moved the plot in the same direction, just with a different approach. For example I understand the marketing decision to include Sephiroth, but was it really necessary to show him every 5 minutes and have a totally pointless battle at the end? It was fun, sure, but it could have been someone else and save Sephiroth for part 2 or 3. In fact I think that just mentioning him during the game would have exponentially increased the hype for the next game.
That's the difference between a connected trilogy based on a famous classic game, and a connected series of an original IP no one knows about. Square Enix lacks the patience that a studio like Nihon Falcom has, because they know people lick Sephiroth's boots and wouldn't dare pass up on that marketing opportunity. For context, Falcom's flagship JRPG series, Kiseki, has an interconnected story set in the continent of Zemuria across more than a dozen games currently divided into 4 arcs, each of which is a subseries that focuses on one country in the continent. The first game was released in 2004 and the latest game was released in 2022. Each arc usually has three main villains. The first villain tends to be the focus of the surface plot of the first game in each arc, while the second villain plans in the shadows but hides in plain sight. Then, after the first villain is thwarted, the second villain reveals themselves at the end of the first game or somewhere in the second game, and becomes the main villain of the arc. The third villain is a group called Ouroboros, which the protagonists of each arc come into contact with as a result of their conflict with the second villain. They're the overarching main villain of the entire series. They never show up in the first game of an arc, it's always the second. The shortest Falcom waits to introduce a main villain into the story is a couple chapters, a few dozen hours of playtime. But the longest they've ever waited to truly reveal an antagonist, that being the Grandmaster of Ouroboros, was 14 WHOLE YEARS. It took them 14 years and 10 games to just show her face since Ouroboros' existence was revealed in the second game in 2006. To a lesser extent, there's Chancellor Osborne, the main villain of Cold Steel IV, who was introduced and teased as a future villain in Trails in the Sky the 3rd in 2007, appeared in Trails from Zero and Trails to Azure in 2010 and 2011 respectively, as well as 2013 and 2015 in Trails of Cold Steel I, II, and III as a major character. And only at the end of III in 2017 does he really become the main villain. They waited 10 whole years for that. Square Enix can hardly wait a few hours. That's the difference in their power.
What I simply don't understand is why it's somehow okay in a remake to make such major (and stupid) changes to the story. It didn't fly with RE3Remake where they removed sections that were in the original and they essentially ruined Nemesis. It didn't fly with changing by a fraction of a second when Han Solo shoots Greedo in A New Hope. But somehow, changing everything in FFVII is okay. Fans are okay with it!? People are like: "Sure! Kill Tifa instead of Aerith! We don't care! As long as we're surprised!" Imagine if they remade A New Hope but Palpatine from the future in Rise of Skywalker showed up to try to mess with the timeline or some shit. Star Wars fans would be up in arms. But somehow it's okay for Square to completely shit on the meaning and story of the original. As long as fans get to see the characters in high resolution and that there are surprises.
@@kjh4496 just half the game annexed from it's original,all jill's alternate costumes, the mercenaries (first mercenaries mode in a resident evil game) live selection, barry burton.😂 You're right we got the same story just a watered down version from what we originally got in 1999.
I really wish I enjoyed this game, All I want in life is to go back to the world of FF7. But this game just wasn't FF7, it was another game wearing the dead skin of FF7 as a disguise. If you don't remember what FF7 was then you may not notice. But if you do, then you'll notice the seams of skin stitched together - changed plot points, changed characters, irrelevant DLC, changed themes, changed emotions, changed atmosphere - and once you notice that it's just a monstrous disguise then you can't not notice the monster beneath that is trying to pretend to be the FF7 we all love and remember and want to be able to love and cherish in a faithful and respectful remake.
The thing is that it isn’t and was never meant to be a remake. It is a sequel taking place after the events of FFVII. Naming it remake was misleading but anyone following the game before release pretty much knew it wasn’t really a remake. The name remake signifies sephiroth manipulating the lifestream to alter the timeline and maybe the destruction of fate. But I have a hunch fate is not so easily broken and that everything will ultimately unfold the same. Perhaps the timeline where zack is alive the events will unfold differently and you get two stories in one. The original and the what if.
@@the_argus5142 Don't try and gaslight me into believing that hogwash. The FF7 remake was advertised as a remake for years all the way up to release day and it wasn't until we got to play it that we truly learned how significantly and drastically the the original had been bastardized, to the point where they have to use a time traveling antagonist and an alternate timeline just to explain these extreme deviations from the plot.
@@benfubbs2432 not trying to gaslight and they did make it seem like a remake at first. And that is sort of messed up for sure. But long before the release they were saying it was not going to be a one-to-one remake. On the way to a Smile. Was released like 10 years before remake and is what take takes place between FFVII and Remake. Square was saying it was going to be different from the beginning. How they advertised vs what they said in press releases was completely different.
It's totally ok to like these games, and I wish I did too. The "it's a Remake not a Remaster" line is so shallow and tired though. Like, ok? And? What if we wanted a modern remaster with some new mechanics and features? Even if we agree making a sequel or reboot is what we wanted, that still doesn't make the execution good. Like it's not even a new story. It's the old story with a ton of extra padding, some shallow and insufferable new side characters that add nothing, a ton of anime grunts and trite dialogue, with the only significant new addition being a bunch of fourth wall breaking inter-dimensional time travel multiverse nonsense that is read from the characters mouths, but it's basically just the writers lecturing us through them. What did that actually add to the story? Besides robbing key scenes of their subtlety and emotional weight, what themes are we exploring? The original took some deep dives into finding joy and hope despite grief, loneliness and desolation. This reimagining robs those themes to basically say "what if everything was new!?" in exasperating longform diatribes ... but never seems to decide it actually has anything to say. Just that it could. Or something?
They completely missed the entire point… even with out the completely inconsistent whispers. Put Sephiroth in the same amount and end with the Kalm flashback… cash in the hype of seeing him part 2.
My personal fave hollow argument is "FF7 was your first RPG so of course you're gonna have an emotional attachment to it." I was a JRPG veteran when FF7 dropped. Among others I already had every other FF game available in the US at the time under my belt as well as the BoF games not to mention Chronotrigger which I never believed could be topped. To this day no game has been able to come close to the wonder, amazement, personal engagement, gut-wrenching emotions both high & low that I felt playing FF7 for the first time. As much as I'd like to hope otherwise I can accept that it's very likely no other game will ever come close.
The thing I hate the most about Remake, besides it not being a Remake is that I can't recommend it to anyone who has never played the original. It completely spoils important moments and characters and dumbs it down to the level of storytelling from the FF7 compilation games, which in truth this Remake only caters to.. hence, why the fanfiction trashfire that is Crisis Core DOES have a faithful remake. I now have to deliberately warn people who want to get into this franchise to avoid Remake before playing the original, when all I wanted is for Squenix to extend the lifespan of the now very dated looking original FF7 for a new generation of gamers who missed out it's incredible story and themes about the cycle of life, death and grief and the darker depiction of Avalanche as an eco-terrorist group. Now it's all fate vs destiny, just like any other Nomura game.
Thanks for the vid, been playing Remake for the first time and while there are definitely parts I like, this game overall is shockingly uneven to trudge through. But what was even more shocking for me, was how aggressive I've seen some fans act towards anyone who dares vocalize that disappointment in online spaces. FF used to be one of my favorite series, and I've never stopped wanting to love it, but SE has spent the last 2 decades or so throwing nearly everything I liked about it away. I've accepted that's just how it goes, and I'm sure they have plenty of new fans who love what they're putting out now, but it's nice to not feel alone in my disappointment for a change.
As someone who hasn't played The Original, nor the remake, the remake sounds like being bombastic for the sake of being bombastic, and also being as safe as possible, seems like it has become a case of making a "game for everyone" instead of "A game that anyone can enjoy", which is a subtle but important distinction.
"square had this all planned out" After rebirth, i don't even buy that they planed out this trilogy. And I'm supposed to believe, when Ff7 released they already planed out all the extra fluff they added to the 7 universe.
When i saw the trailer for remake, i admit i was stunned by the visuals and nostalgia, but even then i was sceptical about the game. After seeing people play the game, seeing the whispers and how many important elements were changed or left out, I felt the same way about the game as i've done about every entry that squenix has attempted to "expand" the ff7 universe with, and to me it boils down to the same thing everytime - Money. Everything related to ff7 reeks of cashgrab and has fanfiction levels of quality to storytelling and it makes me a bit sad. I'm happy that ff7 is popular, but i'm also sad that ff7 is popular because it's being treated like a cash cow, that the company is trying to milk long after. It also feels like a lot of people are happy to simple devour scraps of fanservice and can't relate to how some of us feel about ff7r, and fair enough, like what you like, not we say will take remake away from you and square's started down this path and is unlikely to deviate from it for a long time given remake's "success". Maybe one day when they get around to "remaking" one of the other beloved entries from the golden era i.e 8,9 and 10, and people have to watch square add whispers that zoom around spira and braska never died, jetch's sacrifice isn't a sacrifice because he'll just be res'd by whispers, and chapu well he's recovering in a bed somewhere too, just hasn't woken yet, oh and yu yevon pops up in besaid and whispers into Tidus and Yunas ear "ooOOoh ... DesTinyYyy ... DreamErS wiLl aWAkennn" And when the credits roll and say "Part 1" you come to understand that all that extra padding they added, like "go here and do this thing that has nothing to do with anything" was just so they could justify it as a fully priced game. When that happens i want to see you swallow that whole thing and just smile and love it lol, either that or we hug it out, finally understanding eachother. It's a shame, because I would'ave loved to have seen ff7 be remade the right way and joined everybody else in loving the crap outta it but oh well. Either way, salt aside i'm perfectly happy to just play the original again and just watch other people consume the new ff7 content for now, and who knows, when it all of it is released i might even play the games too.
The arguement that people already know and expect things within a narrative being a problem is destroyed by the existence of collumbo. That show was successful BECAUSE people already knew the answer; the question became how would the story unfold to that answer. It's been scientifically proven that spoiling the ending leads to MORE enjoyment. Thats what foreshadowing is for and when you've read a book once already you start to see new elements of foreshadowing you would have missed before. If at the beginning of collumbo the show had told the audience who the murderer was; and then at the end they decided the murderer was someone else. The audience would have felt cheated.
.....weird. So if someone spoiles the ending to every show or movie that you haven't watched you'll find more enjoyment??? So if you never played ff7 orginal and someone told you exactly how it ended, you'd still play the game through happy with no issues. Hmm , sounds like a lot of remake reveals shouldn't actually bother you then. In fact all the early reveals for remake going forword can also be scene as forshadowing into events that will throw us off into simular consequences or worse. But maybe I'm missunderstanding what you're saying , honestly.
It's very simple really. Remaster: Upgrades in original engine to a title to make it run better, look better and marginally play better. Remake: Remaking the original from scratch in a new engine. PERIOD. This doesn't mean that changes need to be made to the story, gameplay or characters. Reimagining: Changes gameplay, story, dialogue or anything in between, usually made in a new engine. Calling FF7 Remake a remake is dishonest, baitish and disingenuous. It's a reimagining through and through, a quite pretentious and bitter one as well. And having to pay 70 bucks, three times btw, for a disrespectful, revisionist and outright cashgrabby fanfic is just beyond the pale.
Facts bro, and it's crazy how all these people who support this "remake" are just blindly ok with game companies lying. That's what Square has done at the end of the day. They lied about their product and people will sit and try and justify it because they wanna see cloud battle sephiroth in HD lol
I agree I felt like I bought a different game then what was shown and what was told to us not to mention that they claimed after release that 7 would continue as it always has which is an outright lie in multiple ways 1 we know it won't and 2 in the ending it says to be continued in the unknown journey of 7.
@@MrAjking808 what part up that the game was advertised as a remake of Final Fantasy 7 because that’s exactly what they said it was and it wasn’t. It’s a different game with a different plot and different events.
Hey Orion. I've just put out a Remake critique and someone in the comments pointed me your way. My video is nowhere near as extensive or as well put together as your series, but I was also hoping for discussion, only to be me with insults. I will never understand the sort person that immediately gets personal when you criticise a piece of media they enjoy. Anyway, just wanted to stop by and say I really like your channel and while we don't agree on everything, I think your arguments are well reasoned and supported. Keep it up!
Hey! Thanks very much for leaving a comment. I'll check out your video for sure. Unfortunately, the insults come with the territory. It shouldn't be like that, but it is. Don't take any of them to heart. It's a deeply toxic fanbase. Many of the subs for this channel don't agree with everything I have to say. Some think I'm too harsh, others think I'm too lenient. But I think we agree on the larger messages. Thanks again for reaching out. I appreciate it :)
Two things I never really understood about the remake. First is, if they want to tell it differently, just tell it differently. It'd still get complaints, but you don't need a metaphysical justification for it that just throws it in your face. Unless, if course, it really is timeline shenanigans so they HAD to invent plot dementors as an explanation. Second is, why the padding? Like, they said they couldn't fit the whole remake on one release, it had to be these small parts, but this game is LOADED with bloat. Entire chapters and characters are completely pointless. Either Nojima and Nomura really have no filter anymore and throw any old junk at the wall to see what sticks, OR they were deliberately inventing this fluff because they knew their game would be 20 hours long without it. And even then, they should have just included more free exploration in Midgar and activities to do, rather than the garbage we got. They could have cut at least a dozen hours of crap out of this game, and we could have made it all the way to Junon in this release.
Finalyy, someone understand the core problen of that padding. They could have done the whole remake in one part, but they split it and then padded to the hell out of it.
What! You didn't like the part where Cloud has to control the robot hand which was merely a background detail in the original? How dare you disrespect its promotion to padding material in the remake 😱 I agree a 100% with you, so many parts in this game are desingenuous and obviously made to slow down your progression, my suspension of disbelief was completely shattered by the train graveyard. It used to be roughly 4 screens and was done in 20 minutes in the OG before you reached sector 7 just in time to face the Turks before the pillar fell down. Here? Why aren't the whispers mad at our characters and pushing them faster on their way to ensure they get there on time? But nooo, we have to find ghosts hiding in closets and learn more about Aerith's childhood! It's made even worse by Tifa's initial doubts growing constantly until we see the choppers and we do know for a fact Shinra is going to crash the pillar. Why did the entirety of sector 7's inhabitants survive this time around? Shouldn't this anger the whispers? I mean they are supposed to want the timeline to go the way it did in the original game, so why do we evacuate the sector and how are we even able to locate the 7th Heaven when an entire plate fell right on top of it ? Everything should be destroyed beyond recognition and any salvaging was impossible back in 1997, so why can we go back now ? The new content felt forced and didn't add any layers to the main cast that was either necessary or coherent to the story at all. The worst offender has to be the Shinra Building for me. It was so exciting and fun in the OG to infiltrate the place, in the Remake it's just so bland and boring. Why don't we get arrested in this version by the Turks ? So much tension was removed by not having the massacre occur and having to follow the trail of blood and bodies left supposedly by an unknown assailant, his identity only confirmed when you find the president of the company everyone was motivated to meet, instantly dispatched on his desk by a long katana. And God, the Drum is the worst dungeon I've ever seen in a game, it overstayed its welcome and the phone mechanics to switch between your party and how Red has to run across platforms Cloud should have been able to jump over. It just felt so uninteresting and padded. Had the game given more freedom in our exploration of Midgar, to see new sectors and quests to interact with its citizens, the game just feels so bland in comparison to what it could have been. Sewer levels suck. Having to go back through a level you previously completed to progress the story also sucks. It boggles the mind how Square thought it would be so great to combine the two with Leslie's contribution to the story (which was rather generic and brought nothing of substance to the lore) to make the story progress. Chadley was an ok addition in the Remake, but his constant apparition in Rebirth was simply too much for me. I'll stick to Remake for this comment but I still found it rather weird how we trust an AI designed by Hojo of all people to be on our side in the grand scheme of things. TLDR: nothing that was added in Remake justifies that the entire game happens in Midgar and every chapter received an unhealthy amount of padding. The fact is this game could have been done in one part had they remained faithful to the original story. Also Sephiroth appears way too quickly and any amount of mystery and nuance with the character is lost. No, Kitase, the fact "everyone" knows who Sephiroth is doesn't justify the fact you should milk your main antagonist the way you guys have in these games.
All the charm got lost, it’s like they tried too hard and messed up the story and I loved the original maps I was lookin forward to seeing them , what they actually did by changing locations around was a major disappointment and I def don’t like the combat as much as the original, I mean how are they gonna do the open world part and not screw that up ? The cities feel horrible compared to the original
Great video and script writing what thoughts came to you. Thanks so much sharing your feelings and elaboration or anyone else who helped. It was just a well told, well explained what I felt it was flat, and unnecessary changes. One of my favorite Original scenes was the dead impaired snake, that just hinted Sephiroth’s strength with mystery behind him, without seen him and just been told as you said. Less is more, the examples you gave on how to make him threatening in REBIRTH without revealing him.
Square could fix this, but as boldly as they fixed 14. Fix remake 1. Do it again, removing the kingdom hearts madness. Hide Sephiroth. Kill everyone in sector 7. Get rid of the plot ghosts. Almost all of the same game is there, it wouldnt be nearly as much work as the first time. GET RID OF THE DRUM. Fuck, Id buy it AGAIN for that. Id pay full price. Do it again, but right, instead of making yourselves double down on the parts the core audience hates.
they shud release 2 games: rebirth: the next installment of the game with wtv they got planned... and ff7 fan remaster version: ff7 remake without the madness and true to orinial+rebirth true to original. Honestly, it wouldnt even be that hard. they have all the assets and they could keep the game the same just delete some scenes and change a few things, combine the games into a whole game and they are set! it would please the fans of new multiverse nonsene AND give OG fans what they wanted. And they could release an extra game on the cheap (again since they got the assets n wtv) and many fans would buy it, even if they liked the game now. It would be great for their profits (milking the public as they currently doing) AND please fans. if they was smart theyd do this.
Let's be realistic, they aren't going to start over. That's an option that's gonna cost a heck of a lot of money. The only thing they can do is create an threat even greater than Sephiroth and have him act as a plot device instead of the main villain. Since the remake series is supposed to be a brand new story, they can create something totally new and totally good, if not better than the original; but they have to go FAR beyond the original story to make this happen. Because adding all of these ghost and stuff just made things so complicated that they can't stay anywhere near the original storyline.
I genuinely dislike that the company though "But people already know the story". Then changed it. I can't help but think that they just wanted to apply their own ideas. A classic isn't made better if someone changes it. I have read Jurassic Park 4 times.
Thank you for using that Star Wars example. Metal Gear Solid and Hideo Kojima would've been another good example. Creative minds are a powerhouse of good stories. But they're not good _storytellers._ They need to be reigned in, otherwise you're going to get an absolute mess of a story with plot threads that go nowhere, characters that are underdeveloped, and no real ending in mind. That's what I'm seeing with remake. They're putting too much into it and they don't have an idea of how it's going to be ended. I remember the feeling I had the moment they announced remake would be episodic. I knew that meant this series was going to be dragged out. Then I found out that the staff was going to be replaced like 2 years before it came out. They didn't plan this out very well. They had an idea and just went all in with no idea how it would come to fruition. You're so spot on in your analysis. I'm glad I'm not the only one that realizes there are more bad things about it than good. Bravo!
Great comment! Thank you! Ah yes, the moment SE announced multiple parts...that takes me back. They couldn't even say how many parts it would be, hadn't even decided up until recently. The story still evolving behind closed doors. They're trying to get their hands around this thing, but they created the monster.
@@orion8550 Yes. I have a feeling the project will limp to the finish line, but at that point, many of the core fans will abandon it. Again, just like Star Wars with the Disney trilogy.
I agree with almost everything you said here. I do like remake, but I also think they are playing with fire. So many remakes are screwing up good material from the past nowadays. They already broke so many things of the OG theme. The way I see it they have to stick to two major themes to save this story. One Aerith has to die for the life stream to help holy stop meteor. Two Zach has to die for Cloud to get the buster sword and to have his mental breakdown. The ship has halfway sailed for one of these. The ship has completely sailed on keeping Sephroth as a mystery (which as you pointed out makes him far less of a big bad). So effectively to keep this story being completely crap now only thing they can assure is killing Aerith. She is the only ancient, therefore she is the only one that can coax the life stream from within to help holy. If she lives then they will have to stop meteor before it is cast. This will break the story and themes so bad (hence the cover emblem) beyond repair. If they make anyone else do it just wouldn’t make sense!
Actually aerith didn't need to die, she had already cast holy, sephiroth thought he had stopped her but was in fact too late, had she died before casting holy sephiroth would've been unstoppable.
@@josephcoffey2175 Areith needs to die for the lifestream to assist holy (cause as we saw, holy by itself isn’t enough). Only Areith can coax the lifestream in assisting holy from within the lifestream as a part of it. We learned this from “on the way to a smile”.
Stop meteor before it is cast?? Why would sephiroth cast meteor? after he teamed up with Cloud to fight the fates... its like he is a totally different person with different motivations. Im not sure he still wants to "become a god" as he did in the orginal...
@@sandermez3856 well again if he never cast meteor then you kinda break the story and the cover emblem for FF7. If you are not going to cast meteor then you don’t need the black materia (we already know they are going for it). Since they are going for it, then you know he is going to cast it. It is the only thing the black materia does. So your point is mute. He is still casting Meteor. So holy still needs to be cast to stop it. And holy isn’t strong enough by itself. So Aerith still needs to be in the lifestream to stop it. I am actually warming up to Zack timeline is technically the lifestream. Still don’t think it is, but some things are pointing to it (hole in the sky in his but not clouds).
It's been a pleasure hearing you dissect the issues of FF7R. At its core I found that my main issue with the remake is how blatantly misleading SE were with how it was marketed. We were expecting a remake, not a sequel or some alternate timeline bs that did not exist in the original game. This is made worse by the fact that this game cannot stand on its own without prior knowledge of the compilation of FF7. I believe you touched on that tidbit in a prior video, but this game satisfies neither the people expecting a faithful remake nor new players getting into the series. So now we have to believe the old guard of SE can somehow conjure up a satisfying story when I believe none of their recent games can hold muster. From what I've seen of the last act of the game...yeah I'm not gonna hold my breath. I mean seriously they had us fighting THAT and expect us to believe they can raise the stakes?
here from the future, it only got worst SPOILER: they basically double down on safe bet and barely changed anything making the plot irrelevant with side tangents that go nowhere, character arc worse than before and Sephi spam constantly to remind you "how dangerous he is" while making him a joke instead this is the result of devs failing to realize why the original was loved and more so how little faith higher ups had in the remake to begin with to change it so pointlessly and not double down onto it it be one thing if Barret died in part 1, they changed fate and now the story is unraveling, (like Dyne not being stopped cause barret was gone so he escalates, or Wutai shunning Yuffie cause they don't go there first) but instead its just worse and over explained nothing is left to player to realize cause "you're too stupid so we'll dumb it down and explain it all to you bluntly" there's no mystery in any scene when they immediately tell you the answer to it all" and worse there's nowhere to go in part 3 cause the finale was blown in spoilers in "part 1" so there's no point to it now FF7Rs feel like spectacle pieces meant to wow you with high visual noise than actual quality, bloating design with "more is more" than "less is more" cause without that they can't justify the $70 price points each part has to what should ALWAYS OF BEEN a one and done remake game and once all 3 parts are out, it won't have any purpose at all and be considered just a bad remake project that wastes everyone's time
Nomura isn’t EVEN good at the character / outfit designs anymore… his designs went from impractical / fantastical to just gay… plaid & hot topic hair highlights & blazers with hoodies
Good points. Making a story, about a story, within a story, was just a terrible idea imo. As you say, If we did get that retelling we all wanted since that PS3 tech demo, i very much doubt people would have complained about it at all. Some of the best things in remake were when it was retelling it's original scenes! It's just unfortunate they want to take it in this unnecessary direction. I hope modders someday take the assets, cut the shit, and give us a more faithful retelling.
We do have some amazing modders modding the original game and putting remake models into it, with voice acting. Look up tsuna mods, him and his team are doing gods work and need WAY more support.
I see it more like it's kind of like the A plot is the retelling of FF7 but there's a B plot that justifies WHY we're retelling the game and the devs have some room to explore other artistic approaches. it's clear that Sephiroth is doing something and his plans are why we're going back and retelling FF7 at all. this B plot would eventually become the final encounter and resolve a conflict that justifies going back to remake FF7. Would I have loved a 1:1 remake? yes, I definitely would. but playing a "new game" with the characters I love from FF7 with story I don't know? that's arguably better. I guess the moment I gave up on the 3-disc game being retold is when they announced it was going to release in multiple parts and the first would only cover the 6 hour mark of a 40 hour game. where would you distinguish "the shit"? is the 3rd chapter, running around with Tifa doing sidequests "shit"? because that was not in the original. Cloud and Aerith in the coliseum? Clouds migraines and Sephiroths appearances? arguably most of those DO happen in FF7, they just didn't SHOW Sephiroth, it was just text. I'm all for criticism and that people feel lied to about what remake was but there's so much negativity for what seems like only "it's NOT FF7" and I guess since I came to terms with that almost 3 years before release I find people unreasonable when demanding it to be.
@@chainclaw07 A lot to unpack there lol. I probably won't address everything. Firstly, if you are happy with what you got, good for you. So this remake is to "create room for the devs to be more artistic"...Ok. And what did we receive in the first part?: Padding. Leslie's sidequest. Train graveyard. Switch on some sunlamps. More padding. Plot ghosts. These sidequests, including where the story takes a nose dive, were not very artistic imo. The Tifa one you are referring to wasn't too bad. It was nothing special though, basic fetch quests. Dialogue was good. Jessie's sidequest wasn't too bad either. Wall market and the colosseum was the better of the improvements also. Sephiroth in this is like a turd that won't flush, just like the ghosts. Terrible idea. Zero mystery for new players, which this game was apparently made for. Then they show Cait Sith, and Zack with zero context to who they are, and what's happening? Glad I'm not a new player. "Making a new story about characters i love is arguably better" Ok. So make a sequel then? I wouldn't have complained. But basically retredding most of the original story throughout the game, then flipping the script with KH nonsense. Is that artistic, or just lazy writing? This is the shit I'm referring to lol. 1:1 would honestly have been better. RE1 Remake, if you have played it, is the perfect example of how to execute a remake. The remake was that good it basically surpassed the original '96 version (that's still good too). It added new stuff but remained faithful. FF7 Remake is just not going to better it's original, (for what I've seen so far), imo. And that's disappointing... Not because of the convoluted plot, but because it has been executed badly. I'm quite sure that if it wasn't episodic, there would have been less padding to stretch a 5hr section into 30hrs. Love to be proved wrong with the next parts, but i doubt it. When i take what i got from the first part in terms of "new stuff", most of it just wasn't that good. Again just my opinion.
@@Scott-M1 with Sephiroth, don't you think that you have a preconceived bias about what the best Sephiroth is? Making your assessment about him toward new players... debunk? And about the extra flair - wasn't Eligor a cool boss fight, that deepened our understanding of Aerith and how isolated she feels among humans? Doesn't chat. 3 show us a Tifa that conforms to her surroundings because Tifa is introverted in the sense that she finds it easier to sacrifice herself rather than burden others and to conform to her new circumstances instead of raging against the world? Doesn't all these things flesh out and improve upon the presentation and depth of FF7? And if so, Doesn't a few bad takes in the same vane balance out instead of drag the whole thing down? I was annoyed when they made you fight apps a second time, Basically in these discourses it feels like I'm just OK with compromises and others are not. I want the full 3 disc game remade and playable start to finish... I'm OK compromising that structure ... to actually have a remake of the game. Did I like the whispers? (Their final encounter? Hell yes) No they felt like meta expectations on the devs expressed in story and gameplay. But I'm OK compromising to have a badass final fight both against FATE and Sephiroth- who clearly is a bigger bad this time around. They have a really hard task of balancing all these new things like Sephiroth and Zacks new additions BUT I see the possibilities THAT ARE there and hope for the best. I'm not ruling out that after the next part or the final part I will hate the remake. Luckily they ARE making ever crisis, a supposedly 1:1 remake, so you have that to look forward to
@@chainclaw07 I see your points, and again, good for you if you are happy with it. I just didn't like what they are doing with it, cons outweighed the pros for me. Agree to disagree. It's difficult to really articulate every point in a YT comment. You are better watching all the critique videos, like this one, that articulate that far better. There is nothing new I'm adding that hasn't already been said. Ever Crisis is an episodic mobile game... Not quite the remake we asked for lol.
FFVII Remake is basically FFXIII wearing an FFVII skin. Almost everything that XIII was harshly criticized for gets a pass with FFVII Remake: no deep exploration and maps that are just endless hallways, no direct control of all members of your party simultaneously, doesn't open up until very late in the game, not bothering to explain the game world directly, splitting the story into multiple sequels, etc. All of that is okay in FFVII Remake, but not FFXIII for some reason.
I will say playing the demo of the remake gave me false hope. The bombing mission was perfect in my opinion. Then they immediately got off track. Had square stuck to the original I was full willing to pay whatever the cost. I was understanding when they announced that the game would be episodic. But the remake was really just a betrayal and killed my hope for its future.
I was stupidly giddy when I first heard about this...not because it was FF7...well not totally because it was FF7, but it got my hopes up that my all time favourite game FF8 would then get the same treatment....then I heard the episodic element and I was slightly turned off. then I heard they changed the story and added 30+ hours of fluff (you can call it whatever you want, it's fluff to allow them to make more money by breaking up the game more!!) Now I no longer want a FF8 remake unless it's a one to one remake....that story for me is perfect and if touched, it would make me actually angry! Even in this video you say "we don't know where the story will go"....this line alone means it's not the FF7 remake people wanted...no matter how good the game might be
Honestly man, the only factor I like about this remake is the combat gameplay, it was good action rpg but still kept element of turn based, it was engaging but needed some more work to be perfected. But fuck changing the story, if there ever remake ANY other final fantasy title. They cannot change the story, yes add new dialogue and add new scenes or angles, but holy cow, do not touch the story, keep it the same. I’m a new fan and I’ve played the old titles. Why would I want the story to change in any of them. They’re perfectly written..
21:59 insomniac spider-man pretty much crushes this argument. Everyone knows who Doctor Octopus is, yet the game still built him up, cause that how story telling works. There is also the fact that many new gamers prob. know sephiroth from spinn off titles or kingdom hearts, and hearing about Ariths death is not the same as experiencing it 25:00 the jail scenario is to this day one of my fav. in the game, the haunting atmosphere. I was curious how the remake would portray it... they didn't, they completly removed it and replaced it with a tedious and boring lab section. It's the exact opposite of why fans where waiting for a remake. Heck, would not be surprised if they completly remove Hojo mutating in his battle in future games, cause this fight already gets barely mentioned
Can we sue in a big group? 😢 I really loved what this video said, and I was very open yo hear the good, the bad, and the ugly. Because even though I played REMAKE, and looks pretty, I got REBIRTH….but I too feel disappointment of questionable changes and Zack alive. I truly stand with the true planetary message. I’m tired of time Tavel and multiverse trope. It just doesn’t work for me here.
A Remaster is existing assets upgraded. A Remake is those assets RE MADE - from bottom up, It's simple, there is no confusion. If you Change the Story it's called a Reboot. So if somebody is upset about false marketing they are allowed to be, its up to SE to tell people what they are selling. If they weren't a multibillion company they'd be toast.
Re1 remake is a 1 for 1 remake with added stuff like Lisa Trevor. FF7 remake is more like a reimagining similar to Silent Hill Shattered memories which is a reimagining of Silent Hill 1.
Who cares if it’s “remake,”reboot”, “remaster”, etc. FF7Re is a terrible game from a gameplay aspect that also destroys core themes of the original. It’s such a strange thing to even argue about in the first place. Why remake core aspects of the original? Aerith is supposed to die and is core to the story and game’s theme of life, death. She represented Sakagichi’s mother’s death for God’s sake. How disrespectful to the source material can you be? Inserting kingdom hearts no-one-dies and low effort low brow time travel BS is a straight up insult.
FF7R is a remake that redefines what a remake could be. All the events are still happening but with a twist. Small changes lead to bigger changes, transforming the greater narrative potentially encompassing the whole compilation of FF7.
This was so well put together and the fact that you didn’t need to put down the people that like the game to prove your points was brilliant. Bravo man. I skipped FF7 rebirth, like you I consider these remake games fan fiction.
Imagine a remake of Breaking Bad with mostly the same story beats of the original, only now there's a Truman show aspect to it and the characters gradually become aware they're being watched so now they fight their destinies instead. That's FF7 remake, a farcical meta-spin of the original.
When you have Party Leader set to say Barret or Tifa and it still goes back to Cloud on field map. Multi dollar company btw.. they should pull out all the stops to please. 😪 Why is it so hard for companies to abandon this one simple option that use to be norm?
mona lisa is a bad example. Ive got a better one: We r making a Red Riding hood remake... But on the way to her grandma's she runs into the bad wolf several times. They argue about the merits of costumes and pretend. later, the wolf straight up reveals he will pretend to be the grandma and leaves. Then Red runs into spirits who try to keep the story intact. She arrives at the grandma's house but granny is there waiting for her. Then She must battle the wolf. Then the spirits come and explain that she is in an alternative universe. The wolf and red defeat the spirits. Then granny, wolf and red face the camera and we will wonder what holds for their future. where will the story go? wtf? totally different story and missing the points of the original. But hey, remember the wolf? hes the big baddy! and the big deception. yeah, red riding hood! the remake! ooohhh!! wow! :O
I dont want to be that guy but at this point...its ridiculous. The people who defend this game are inhaling major, huge, toxic levels of copium. This game was marketed as a REMAKE! Look up the definition of the word. This "remake" is actually a sequel or re-imagining. The devs themselves said it. We were tricked and lied to. The story as it is is completely ruined by TIME TRAVEL....the laziest plot point ever in anything ever, ever! I literally have no excitement or hope for the next installments. I mean sure...the graphics and gameplay witll be good but the story, a huge factor for me, will be crap. I mean...think of it....we literally fought and beat advent children level sephiroth (plus the stupid kh heartless) in the first game when cloud was literally at his weakest. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?!
Metal Gear Solid Delta is on its way of doing everything fans wanted for FF7. A 1:1 remake of the classic with changes in graphics and quality of life options, also the ability to choose between modern gameplay and classic. And that's being made by Konami, of all companies, who kicked Kojima out and stripped themselves of their dignity!! Nomura and SE sold us a big lie with Remake, then completely removed the mask with Rebirth... And the hilariously low sales numbers show whatever plan they had for 7R is just not working as intended. But as long as they have fans never questioning their poor choices, worshipping Nomura and 7 as a brand, they'll keep selling merch and poorly written games and making a profit out of it. Im so tired of multiverses and at this point I blame Marvel for that. So far the only piece of media I've seen working well with the concept is Alan Wake, and that's because they're going for surrealism rather than "look how things have changed! We totally fooled you! Death and stakes don't matter anymore bc everything subverts your expectations! We're so quirky!"
Square Enix tricked me to buy a sequel disguised as a Remake and I hated what new they added. But the joke is on them, I will just pirate their games from now on.
If I'd describe this game in a single word I'd say it's "schizophrenic". The graphics looks amazing when it comes to main character models and enemies/bosses, but some of the environments had botched PS3 graphics and pixilated textures and most NPCs clash with the artstyle of the game and look like they just migrated from Fallout 4. The game has recreated some of the best story moments from the original FF7 Midgar section and at the same time it has some of the worst written moments in a Final Fantasy game ever (all the meta crap they added that doesn't belong in the story and has nothing to do with the themes of FF7) The game had some of the best boss fights in series history and an engaging hybrid combat system but it also has hours and hours of boring gameplay represented by some of the most mind-numbing filler segments that serve no purpose beside artificially padding out the play time. The game one moment fondly does call outs to moments and characters from the original FF7, then the next moment spits on the original and its fans and makes the characters act like its the worst thing ever...every tragic deaths, every meaningful heroic sacrifice, all has been undone, all the edges from the game has been sanded off. It's like the game was directed and written by two people with diametrically opposed views on FF7, or one person with two clashing personalities, one who loves the original game and wants to honor it and please the fans of the OG by delivering the Remake that was promised, and also one who really hates FF7 and its fans and takes a lot of opportunities to spit at them and insult them and denigrate the original's storyline. Buying and playing this game is like being in a relationship with an abusive partner, one moment they are sweet and loving and love to reminisce about the beautiful past, the next moment they are an abusive, vindictive liar that spits in your face after taking your money, it's utterly bizzare.
There are only 2 reasons why studios keep remaking movies and games. 1:the licenses are getting near the end of their copyright dates and they need to renew them through a new installment in the series. 2:studios need to make money but have no talent or bravery for original titles. So they just brush the dust off of any and everything they already own.
The most idiotic argument I always hear defending its mistakes goes along the lines of: “But this problem was also in the original, that makes it okay for the reboot (sorry, “remake”) to do it even worse.”
People do not understand the significant change in having Reno incapacitated only to have Fate and Rude take over the role. They see: plate up -> plate down, Shinra wanted the plate down -> Shinra got the plate down. But unless fate was there, the button would not be pushed. To many, this and many other things aren't changes and the whisperers, who are the very plot of this game, haven't changed anything in their opinion.
I appreciate criticisms of Remake despite how much I loved it. This was a well made video. For those worried about the clickbait title… don’t worry, 95% of this video is just meant to create understanding… most of it is not meant to invalidate those who enjoy the narrative decisions made. I will mention that you included screenshot of one Audrey’s tweet that had a “controversial translation”… I love Audrey, and we have even collaborated, however, her translation infers a confirmation of the “many worlds” theory, when the quote was more likely meant to suggest that she (Jessie) was in fact… permadead. But that’s a bit inconsequential to the overall point being made. If you care I can provide the full translation. I am very aware that SE made a decision that would make many unhappy. I feel fortunate that I was lucky enough to fall in its target audience. But I feel genuinely bad for those who didn’t get what they want from remake.
Thanks for the comment! :) Ooo that's interesting RE Audrey's tweet - my inclusion of that was really to reference the original source of the many interviews that had gone on to quote her translation. But yes, I wasn't aware that there had been some confusion/misunderstanding around the quote. Would definitely love to hear more - or I can search. Either way thanks for the info.
@@orion8550 I have had a couple of other translators look at the section. The agreed upon translation is- Toriyama: We see that Biggs is shown in the physical world and is shown to be alive. However, Jessie is not shown because we couldn't save her... that's what you are meant to see. One might see Biggs and see that his life could be saved by some miracle and think "Jessie might also be saved". But an important theme of this story is "loss". If all of the characters you see are able to survive in the future, that would have to be in a different story. I personally don't know if they are doing a "multiple timelines" story or not. Despite what has propagated through Max Dood and other sources. It has absolutely not been confirmed. I don't think it really matters to those who didn't like the narrative though. I just fully expect a crucifixion of square enix if it ends up being a single altered timeline, where people point to badly translated ultimania quotes and call the developers liars. Truthfully they are simply attempting to keep the direction obscured for now.
Thanks for sharing! Interesting to see the differences. Overall, for the point of the quote, it becomes interesting to me when SE flag a theme from the OG which seems at odds with what I felt playing Remake. I'd be happy to bet top dollar Wedge survived, but the game seems to indicate that Jessie died (the gloves creating a possibility for something else, sure). Assuming she's permadead, perhaps her death is enough to meet the developer's definition of loss for this particular game, and perhaps the overall narrative. And I guess her death has been used by some fans as proof that SE respect the shock and loss of the original game. The disconnect comes for other fans because while Jessie is on the one hand, over on the other hand we have Zack and Biggs making their startling recoveries. So it feels like the game is saying we'll meet you half way, here's your death scene, and now we'll take back these other 2 characters we killed in the original and bring them back to the sandbox. It feels like the game is looking to expand its cast, rather than show how fleeting life can be. 5 years from now, if the game still manages to explore loss in a profound way (and the emotional beats of the original still ring true, despite characters moving about), maybe I'll feel a little differently on this. But it doesn't feel like the game is going that way. I think that's a good point too about the developer quotes - it's only fair that SE should be able to keep things a little cryptic. Even if translations are made in error or not, I suppose fans shouldn't latch on too tightly to these developer quotes and what not. There could be cases of misdirection or things said simply in error, or without realising how it could be interpreted. There are some major secrets still to explore. And SE may even be working through several possibilities still. So yeah I don't think it would be fair to come down hard on them later on over a historic quote made during development. Although, the quotes that irk me are the ones which reflect on the themes of the original game.
@@orion8550 I am not sure the point of the quote is to equate the death of Jessie to the loss we feel in ff7 as a whole. I will withhold my judgement on how faithfully Remake tackles the core themes like loss until the series continues. I realize that is an argument you "crush" during this video, but I remain unconvinced that what we have seen so far is an indication that we won't have explored those themes in a meaningful way once the story is completed. They won't be exactly the same, they never can be, but everything I have absorbed on this so far has convinced me that the developers are extremely aware of what the core themes are. You may be surprised to know, despite having a encyclopedic understanding of the compilation of FF7. I didn't like MOST of it. I enjoyed most of the light novels and short stories in OtWtaS... but beyond that and BC I found them dreadful overall. However, I never walked away from a compilation title and thought that it was a total waste. The way remake is essentially incorporating what I see to be the best elements of the compilation is extremely enjoyable to me. I hated the narrative mess that was AC but always wanted to have that Sephiroth fight in a ff7 title. I always loved the concepts of Weiss and Nero but hated their implementation in DoC. I for one think that the remake represents a way to create a masterwork that includes all of these elements while incorporating the primary narrative in a better way. I enjoyed Intermission much more than Dirge of Cerberus, and perhaps I will enjoy whatever Zack's survival story represents will be better than the mess that was Crisis Core. Was the first part of Remake a little less depressing than the OG? Of course it was, just as I'd expect the next to be much darker. Do I think the third will completely retcon all death and give us some tropey "everyone survives" narrative? Of course not, I don't think most people think that. What remains to be seen is if somewhere in the new story of ff7 it loses its soul, and to me it hasn't yet... maybe it will... but I am fairly confident it will still tell an effective story about loss, growing up, creating a family from your own connections, treating the planet well and overcoming the lies we tell ourselves to survive.
@@schrodingersbabyseal In my humble opinion, the fact that we are even talking about "permadeath" in regard to FF VII tells me that, again in my opinion, many people don't have an FF VII, especially OG, grasp on death, and it is not their fault. We now need this kind of definition, which saddens me greatly. It does not align with the themes for me at least and even if the whole world burns in a Sephiroth wins this time in some sort of explicit "this is permadeath of everyone", I would have no faith in death as the developers still showed that they change things in fundamental philosophical and nonsensical ways, so I will probably go to my grave thinking there will always be more FF VII and it can have whatever imaginable added into it. I do not think that "we" treated the planet well when we stabbed and grouched out its time shenanigan "eyes" (and perhaps released Sephiroth X), but I know that you are convinced that the whisperers aren't the planets creation, but I haven't followed that discussion for a long time. In a sense it would please me since I consider the lifestream a character that I liked but now borderline hate, but I would like the whisperers perhaps even less.
FF7 OG came with 3 disc one purchase day 1 FF7 Tragedy will be 3 disc 70$ of disconnect FF7 OG hid Sephiroth to build tension FF7 Reimbursement shows him every 30 minutes FF7 OG showed how strong he was through gameplay FF7 Re-Poop let you play as him and he can die Picking up FF7 Refund as a new player you are ROBBED of EVERY moment that made the original game a timeless classic.
The one Sephiroth scene I would have kept is that Palmer saw him in the hallway. Also I would have found a way to keep the trail of blood. I know they did that to keep it T for teen but they could have been more creative. Maybe show Palmer watch Sephiroth walk down the hallway and when he goes into the next room you hear the massacre.
I think there are two big messages in the original game, one of them being the pro ecology message. The insertion of the "ghosts" make that message weaker in my opinion. This is my biggest grip with the remake. Changes are okay, the problems are when those changes hit the central points of the original title.
Bah, not like I played the original so I don't have much to say about this, but I definitely agree that removing character deaths reduce the impact of the story. I don't think people recognise that. I think it definitely hurt the writing that they spilt an entire story into three parts, intended to retain it into one game so gamers can play one or another without much context. That's all I can say, I think.
Not to mention they probably wanted to show off every character model in the game before making you lot wait for the next part in a few years at that point of time, again for the fans.
Something that's very funny is that the first remake is less than 10% of the original game. The new remake brings us up to 30% of the original game. 70% to go...
I think 7R nailed the characters, which is huge, but 7 and Crisis Core put "dealing with grief" as maybe the central theme of the overall story. Both of Cloud's major character changes hinged on important deaths, and Sephiroth himself is an example of someone who failed to cope with the tragedy of his life. While I'm happy to see new ideas (the sneaky title "reMAKE", actually being a verb, to say the characters are the ones remaking the story), I hope they don't lose the essence of the story by forgetting the main theme. If it's going to be a new FF7 or even a sequel, they have to directly address the deaths that might not happen again. It could be interesting to see the cast react to the original story beats. How is Cloud going to find himself this time? It was clearly worth it to retell the beloved original story faithfully, to refresh it for a generation, so they had better have a good plot in mind for part 2 if they're going to pass on the pure remake.
The last paragraph make it seams that you're stating they made the same story as the original, if that truly was what you intended to say, sorry but... no... just... no. The story changed a lot, chamges to the overarching plot: If the story was the same a fathfull recreation, sephiroth would have yet to show up, there would be no whispers, biggs, wedge and jessie would be dead. Changes they mad for the sake of not being m-rated: The shinra building would be a total bloodshed with all of their employees sliced in pieces, shinra wouldn't be increasing the mako reaction explosion radious, meaning avalanche actualy intended the amount of destruction they caused.
Remember when Jessie was a shallow background character we didn't get to know? I miss that Jessie lol. This current Jessie is making cringe selfy faces in MY face and won't leave me the F alone... all the girls are obnoxiously quirky but Jessie is a 'lolz I'm so cute' menace! lol
The characters were hardly nailed down. Why is Tifa bubbly now? She's meant to be reserved for a long time due to being painfully aware that Cloud is absolutely insane - she just keeps him around because he's the last living connection she has to the past. Acesahn summed up Jessie well, but... why is so young now? It's shown in an easter egg that she was a vet from the shinra-wutai war in the original. Cloud is now sane for some reason. No massive nervous breakdown in the honey bee inn? Doesn't try to shrug everything off? He isn't a massive asshole to anyone who tries to get even slightly close to him? Barret is now gung-ho, full of action, and weirdly shallow. What happened to him being full of nothing but guilt and anger? He didn't go after Shinra because they were "bad dudes!" that "stomped on the little guy!", he had a blood feud with them because they murdered nearly everyone he knew in a massacre.
7R is a great game. I truly believe it is a triumph in the Final Fantasy franchise. I am still disappointed and saddened that they were deliberately dishonest with us about what to expect from it. I get a great deal of enjoyment from this game. It's possible to love something and see its merits while simultaneously feeling crushingly disappointed by it.
I will admit, when I put myself into the mindset of "this is not actually Final Fantasy 7" it does increase the overall quality of the game dramatically. Unfortunately there are still some pretty major issues with the game. IE, the pacing the the game is absolutely awful. I swear, if you took all the the scenes where you are either forced to walk while characters talk, or are forced to stand there and watch a tv, (before even taking into consideration the actual gameplay portions that serve no real purpose) and allowed the player to move at normal speed, and just keep moving, then you would shave hours off the games runtime.
I liked the gameplay of the remake (old ffvii more, but it's still fun), the graphics are great and it's great to see everybody looking... good. But everyones personality is off and the story is Nomura cringe. I never liked storys he was a part in, but now I'm a full hater. God, I hate this overly convoluted shit. I skipped the ending of remake because it was like watching a kid embarrass himself. Nothing is hidden anymore, except this stupid mistery around these stupid timelines. Even Clouds evil side is fully visible and everyone was okay with it, even Tifa. I can't, I can't play it. I don't want to, other games have good gameplay too.
Believe it or not. I actually do have a friend who didn't know about anything about the original FF7. Yes, including Aerith's fate. He only knew the cultural influence this game has, and how it is one of legacy games out there. He was fairly excited to play remake years ago because the reasons why he does not want to play the original is because of the outdated graphics, and not liking turn-based combat. Remake was supposed to be, or rather, advertised to be exactly what he wanted. *Sigh those were innocent years
Setting all of the far more valid, meaningful points of criticism aside - two of my most egregious issues with the remake are the non-stop anime mouth sounds and those obnoxious eye spasms the characters undergo every couple seconds each cutscene to emphasize their emotional state. It's so incredibly aggravating to me to watch these bishie freaks desperately try to get me to feel for them with these Pixar-ass baby eyes instead of showing me actually well-directed emotional scenes and trusting that the viewer will get the point that way. It takes me out of the experience through its artificiality, it's manipulative, it's lazy and worst of all, it's insulting my intelligence.
I wish for as close to a 1:1 remake of a story. Go ahead and update graphics and mechanics, but that only part of the reason we love the originals. I probably wouldn't have replayed many of my favorite games as many times as I did if the stories weren't good. Also, when the new one changes things, I as a fan of the original can't have a complete conversation with people who have only played the new one.
FF7 is my all time favorite game. Cliche but true. I played it the year it came out when I was in high school. Named Tifa after my crush. This game was very meaningful to me. I have come to the point where not only do I hate everything this game represents, as I see what it could have been to me if it WAS just a 1:1 remaster so I could play the game as it existed in my imagination- But also I hate all the snot-nosed Crisis Core obsessed Zack/Zack shipper fanfic writers who never played the original game on PlayStation in the first place but somehow got what they wanted when they didn’t even care about the actual game in the first place. But hey, can’t all we real fans look forward to Aeris and Zack both living, and then Zack shoving Cloud out of the way so he can become the REAL hero if the story as he always should have been?
The single biggest shame about this, is the fact that we won't ever get an actual Final Fantasy 7 Remake, because of the new trilogy. It really would have been nice to experience Final Fantasy 7 with modern graphics, voice acting, facial expressions, a few rough spots smoothed out, ETC. But that ship has sailed.
I can’t be so sure about that lol since Square went full ff7 remake marathon already. Ever Crisis, Crisis Core, First Soldier etc… Maybe one day!
@@JubileeWins The thing is, all of those things are different unique and new stories. The Remake trilogy is covering the original story (hence why they are able to convince people the lie that its actually a remake.), so its more likely that they would see it as redundant. And that is before we even get into the fact that they just don't have the balls to release a story like original FF7 anymore. They can't even comprehend the concept of having morally grey characters anymore. Lastly, it would require them to admit that they lied through their teeth about this trilogy being a remake of the original game.
In short, I'll believe it when I see it. But I most definitely won't be holding my breath.
@ikeillue8385 FF7 is their cash cow they'll remake the original in a different way, probably multiple ways.
@@zacharyrichardson770 That would be nice. But we all saw how "remaking" Final Fantasy 7 went this time. Current Square doesn't have the balls to remake a game like Final Fantasy 7. I'll believe it when I see it.
@@JubileeWins 'Finally Remade Fantasy 7'- Christmas 2084
There's something depressingly funny about FF7R getting completely uprooted and turned into some shitty abomination where all it's themes are lost in a sea of 5 hour essay theory videos for the next decade. But Crisis Core, a game with a fucking awful story and dialogue, who's only redeeming qualities are Zack Cloud and Aerith, is absolutely untouched in that regard.
You actually have a good point
Great job vocalizing the opinions of disregarded fans like us. Appreciate it.
Retroactively adding multiverses or time travel to a story that wasn't originally built for it is almost always a bad idea. But, if nothing else, it gives me an excuse to subscribe to the idea that there's an FF7 universe where only the events of the original game are canon and nothing else is.
This. Timetravel is not possible in FF7’s lore. The Lifestream has no connection time that wasn’t retconned in later is stupid fan fiction novels.
In that respect i feel that is a stronger argument for remake. Remake can stand on its own free to do its own thing instead of being beholden to the original. Its not a replacement of the original and as such Remake arguably makes the original even more relevant.
Think of it this way. Are there any other 1-1 remakes you would play versus the original solely because they look better or play better. The remake of OoT for instance is a better looking version of the N64 original.
Another example would be Twin Snakes which i feel often is unfairly derided. Mei Ling's voice was change which actually made more sense since she was born in America. Some people hated the first person saying the levels werent redesigned for it making the game too easy...yet its not required. You can play through the entirety of Twin Snakes as a purist if you choose. The other criticism of Twin Snakes are the cinematics. Key point yo remember is that the cinematic director was known for his bullet time style and even he initially wanted to stick closer to the source material but it was Kojima that pushed him to inject more of his style.
Im just saying that Remake and the original both can coexist. Remake doesnt replace the original which I feel is something a lot of remakes kind of end up doing.
@@Linkman247 The problem is that the ongoing production of FF7 Remake is actively stalling the amount of time we have to wait for a proper remake of the original game (if it ever happens at all). Remake was originally marketed as being an accurate recreation of the original game's story, but instead, it ended up being a sequel installment with a remixed version of the original story. That false advertising is a big part of why it's received such mixed reception. Perhaps it has merit on its own, but it's not what it was promised to be, and because of its ongoing production, the thing people were originally hoping for is no longer on the table for the foreseeable future.
@@AuraLeafstorm Not necessarily. If they are going to do a 1-1 remake of the original? They will probably adhere close to the original structure meaning the backgrounds, etc. and character models would likely be updated with most of the combat systems, and such still in place.
The money they receive from this could be invested into further projects. But again if folks want a remake of the original? You can already kind of get that with the likes of Mods and Ai upscaling of the original. They also put out evercrisis which is probably the closest we get to a true 1-1 remake but from my understanding that game turns into a grind past a certain level due to it being free to play.
While I understand the desire for a 1-1 remake? I don't feel that it was "False advertising." Subversive? Sure. But I think a remake carries with it an implication that it's open to whatever the creative team wants to do. Take films for instance.
True Grit with John Wayne is a classic. But they remade it many years later with a new cast, but they didn't just retell the same story. They put their own spin on it. Yet the new title is still True Grit same as the original.
The developer interviews have revealed that if they were going to do a remake they should do it before they got any older. Many of the original developers are working on this so in that sense this is the "Remake" they wanted to do. Whether you agree with that or not is of course up to you. But I can look at other games even that have had marketing that is intended to mislead the audience. Metal Gear Solid is a perfect example. Especially when many people thought they would be playing the game as Solid Snake...not Raiden.
I should also point out that the demo they put out iirc had whispers in it. The subversion as they present it in remake works when they largely adhere to the main story beats. This also holds true in rebirth by the way. Your core progression through the world closely mirrors the original with some slight deviations here or there. I won't go into more because of spoilers. But I view the whispers as a kind of allegory for us the players wanting to keep things the same.
TLDR: As I said above the word remake implies that something can be reinterpreted. The actual definition is...
"make (something) again or differently."
Is it possible they bungle the ending? Sure. But I am keeping an open mind and the game so far has given me that feeling I had when i played the original not knowing what to expect.
@@Linkman247 If they want their "own thing" then just literally make their "own thing"!
Why piggy-back off a famous IP like FF7 (and wreck it!) to make their "own thing"?!!
The lead up and eventual introduction of Sephiroth as a character during the Kalm flashback is one of the few times in gaming history where gaming as a storytelling medium is utilized to nearly its full potential. There are no epic cinematic introduction showing how evil he is, or a bunch of characters telling you he is the bad guy because this or that. He is just a soldier in a convoy slightly annoyed by an overly enthusiastic "Cloud". Then suddenly the vehicle stops and you are in a turn based encounter with a dragon with only you and him in your party. He is able to easily 2 shot the dragon with damage unheard of by this point in the game and every enemy attack either deals 0 damage or misses completely. After the battle concludes and bit time in town you set off to the reactor the devs take it one step further as you are able to view him in your party and find he is lvl 50 and has a Gold Armlet and a full set of Mastered Materia. For the rest of the sequence just sit back mesmerized by while carries your lvl 1 ass wondering why he even bothers reviving you. All the while narratively you watch a calm, cold, calculated and seemingly very sensible soldier suddenly driven mad by a realization about himself and his past. The amount of narrative pacing, nuisance and confidence to introduce your main antagonist this way is nothing short of brilliant and I think it is one of the main reasons Sephiroth is among the most iconic villains in gaming. He isn't simply described to you by others, you don't just view his evil deeds, you know he is a threat because you have interacted with it and experienced it for yourself.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Did you notice no one besides cloud knew who sephiroth even was? Do you guys really just want the same exact story remade every 30 years?
@6cmcnc6 yes. Especially when it's subtitled "remake". Ye dense pedantic wankstain.
@@6cmcnc6 In the og ff7 Sephiroth was a famous rank1 soldier and many characters mentioned him in the first act: Midgar. He was said to be very strong but we did not see him until after Midgar in the town Kalm where Cloud tells his story in the Nibelheim incident.
If you want a new story make a new IP. If something is good don't change it, and more importantly don't make it worse like the remake and rebirth did.
The story was already concluded, finished, didn't need some fanfic sequel about multiverses. All that was needed in the remake was to make sense of the few plot holes in the og and recreate the game in better graphics. That is all.
@@6cmcnc6 We don't ned the exact same story, nor do we need a grand remake of a story that was already considered a masterpiece for decades. What we just want are going deeper into characters and lore where emotional and psychological attachments are still being made from the game. The problem with the remake and rebirth parts is that, instead of answering the plot holes of the games, we are introduced to even more plot holes and twists which are very much unnecessary. Remake and rebirth already did good in the first parts wherein they explored the characters so well. Problem is that the endings of both installments made the major events from the OG have lesser impact that it was before.
The dumbest thing about "everyone already knows Aerith dies" and "everyone already about Sephiroth" is there is so much more to the game. Cloud finding his real self is the actual biggest twist in the game. But there's no way that arc will work in the remake. Why are the devs so hung up on the two parts of the game that got memed the most?
Not to mention who gives a fuck if you know what happens I wanted to replay the story with better graphics maybe some added stuff like what they did with Jessie, Wedge and Biggs but additions are way different then radical changes. In some ways the game was falsely advertised it was advertised as a faithful remake the damn demo was faithful to a T then it releases and we have timeline ghost crap.
The plate falling had so much less impact you thought everyone died you don't go back into it you don't see biggs Jessie wedge ever again because they die they didn't live you take away all that make none of its residence die makes it worthless mine as well not fall at all.
Then you got Zack at the moment we no clue what their doing with that all I can think of is multiverse which would be stupid 1 because to many people are doing that and 2 it takes away from zacks death and clouds character.
Then you got part 1 only being like the first few hours of the original and is somehow suppose to go through the rest in 2 games.
@gamewizord holy shit, grammer was created for a reason. Those symbols aren't a different language, they're used for the english language.
@@EmilyRose900 Go to hell.
@@kl-nl3kv “financial perspective” is the problem. These games (anything modern square produces) aren’t made for the sake of storytelling or game-experiencing, they’re made *purely* as a product first. Anything that makes it what the board considers marketable is forced into the game and anything the actual writers and creative teams think would make the game better is all secondary
The opening scenes with Sephiroth in Remake seemed too derivative, like he's the devil or the Emperor in Star Wars. "Hold onto your hate," like he has a vested interest in turning Cloud evil or something.
The OG Sephiroth was just interested in his own power, revenge on Shinra, and sense of purpose as "mother's son" (Jenova's "son") He tormented Cloud to confuse him, just enough to join the "Reunion" to give him Black Materia.
"I play the OG every year, but I want the remake to be totally new and unpredictable!" People don't realize how contradictory this is--if you replay the OG despite knowing the story, then knowing the story is not a reason you would skip a faithful remake. Fact is, our favorite movies and games and books and shows, these are all things we love clearly in spite of knowing what happens therein, because it's the WAY the story is told, and the experience it provides, that matters, not just the plot progression--otherwise, we'd just read cliffnotes and be satisfied.
Why would we want it to be new and unpredictable? The goal would be for us to see things with fresh eyes, and to be able to show them to younger family members and friends so they can share that warm feeling with us. Its a chance to re-live a moment in time, and to walk through a story we love with someone else by our side this time.
No one wanted the remake to be "new and unpredictable".
We just wanted the og story with updated graphics and gameplay.
It's not a hard concept to get but I know it will still escape you.
In other words. We just wanted the shitty polygons to be actual models and environments.
is 3 time line the new thing you talk about ... cause if you wanted it like that good for you vast majority wanted same story with updated graphics but we know SE wouldnt do that
Not really, your argument assumes there's only one way to enjoy any piece of media or IP. re-playing or re watching/reading your favourites is an exercise in nostalgia and comfort, which is great. But experiencing something new for the first time is a totally different experience.
Two years later, and after playing Rebirth, I’m so glad I found this video to voice how I feel about the new games. It feels chintzy and cowardly and until now I felt like a dinosaur for feeling that way. Much appreciated
Well said. And he's done a Rebirth critique now.
@@OdinTheShogun yes, I clicked so fast when I saw it!
They sacrificed subtlety for nostalgia and shock and awe. A short sighted move. Subtlety is what separates masterpieces from popcorn flicks.
Yeah but this isn’t a movie.
@@6cmcnc6 Could have fooled me lol
I'm sure you know the story goes better than the literal creators of the original game
What a silly statement. You don't need to be a culinary student to know your dessert should be sweet not salty lol
subtlety, short-sighted, subtlety*
Good point about Cloud's mom. I like the idea of fleshing out more of the obscure characters, and their deaths, and how it effected the main cast.
Square did almost everything I was afraid they were going to do. What sucks is there are swaths that are glimpses of what this could have been stripped of the multiversal, convoluted, contrived elements. It feels like AAA driven marketing drivvel: to make everyone happy, introduce a multiverse where whatever you want to be true can be.
As someone that didn't play the original before playing remake:
I didn't know who sephiroth was in the original, not even knew that aerith dies in the original and knew nothing about the story, on that note, i played remake, found the story confusing, slow and boring since about half of the remake, while liking the gameplay a lot, and then played the original on the ps4 version, i enjoyed the story of the original infinetly more, and i hated most of the changes on remake's story.
On OG: sephiroth was a manecing presence, a master manipulator, his backstory with cloud made we want to take him down and had impact.
On remake: sephiroth was the guy that ramdomly appeard in cloud's nightmeres, said some ominous words, and pissed off, then randomly he is the final boss.
You can get your hands on the OG game. I would recommend playing it, or just wait for the ever crisis release on Android and iOS.
@@agamersinsanity i said in the coment, i already played the OG, but only after playing remake, wich is why i had that opinion, and then the OG became one of the few games i platined, alongside bloodborn, elden ring, nier automata and dmc 5, i loved the OG, wich is what made my opinion on remake even worse.
@@agamersinsanity ever crises sucks...its only gonna be in chapters and have remakes assets its garbage
I had a similar experience, idk why they would assume so much. Its not like ff7 is star wars, people aren't constantly quoting the main twist
Sephiroth wasn't a master manipulator. That was Genova doing her thing early in the game. Sephiroth was just her puppet until he is 'revived.' I played the OG since grade school, in my thirties now and Remake I enjoyed, so really it varies from gamer to gamer. Also OG WAS complicated and confusing as there is so much going on, also you must've not played the OG game if you found it confusing. The only thing they changed were some dialogue and whispers. Stor wise it's not too different, just Sephiroth going peekaboo.
As someone who never played the original, I wanted a beat for beat story recreation with updated gameplay and graphice.
ooooooh that scene with the big bro and the little sister playing the game a generation apart just made me livid. I cant believe they blew the greatest game of all time!
"Can you understand why we're disappointed?" When I heard that question, at first I thought "no" and a few seconds later it turn into "I don't know" hearing the song and all the clips of the original. And seeing the case of FF7. It turned into a "yes" great editing on that part. My eyes started watering looking at that.
Thank you...
crazy how resident evil 2 & 4 who have had remakes that are very dedicated and you don't hear any complaints and that's because they didn't do anything drastic to the main story that made it unrecognisable-- but we are the unreasonable ones for wanting a dedicated remake of FF7
yeah... about that...ruclips.net/video/FcJGvS4f-HQ/видео.html and people saying resident evil 4 didnt need a remake as well.... so yes... theres complains about it, maybe you arent searching well, i remmebr so well that people still said the original is better, that before the DLC the cut content was bad etc etc. so yeah, RE4 and RE2 remakes did recieved criticism of changes and cut content... There was complaints but a lot of people loved it, same as FF7 remake. OH! and don't get me started in resident evil 3 remake... how badly people hated it.
@ianfudo5040 he's right for re 2. Not so much 4. Woketards got to that one.
@@ianfudo5040 LOL yeah I was about to say RE2 fans did nothing but complain about re2 remake until the game came out and shut them up. I remember one of the main complaints that the camera wasn't going to be overhead anymore. I was also one of the people who thought RE4 didnt need a remake. i wasn't against it I just thought that it was still good. glad they did though.
*sigh* how do so many people fail to grasp
Its not 'a remake' Its a sequel *titled* remake. as in changing the way things happened.
@@DellikkilleD yes, we get it. Its a sequal, thats obvious and that's why people hate it. It's also kind of stupid for sephiroth to know the events of what happened to him and still try to use black materia. Whispers of fate, parralell universes makes the themes of life and death of the original meaningless.
Instead of immortalising the original they decided to go off and do their own thing,
"the original still exists" yes it does, with its grammatical errrors & blocky 3D. It hasn't aged well, most gen z have not played it bcus it hasn't aged well.
Kuja is a villain that is constantly present in the story of FFIX. So why does he work and Sephiroth in remake does not? It's because we know, that he plays a big part from the first time we meet him. But we don't know what he is capable of. What his true endgame is. And when we find out how ruthless he is after betraying Brahne, we he becomes a driving factor in the story - but not omnipotent. Not a smirking douche, but a very powerful person with limits. This initiates a deliberate cat-and-mouse game between him and the party, concluding in basically the world world uniting against him. It works, because there are stakes for both sides, wich we can grasp even when missing some pieces.
Sephiroth, at this point, is just a marketing tool. "Oh, he so strong. Wouldn't it be cool to go against such a cool and strong character?"
Thats all there is. He is a fanfic wearing a Sephiroth costume.
I think the worst part is, that new players won't get as much of a desired experience out of this. Early sephiroth, defeating Destiny itself all that stuff just hits way less and make less sense without the context of the "original timeline"
New players won't care about those things because they already knew who Sephoroth was anyways since he's infamous in the video game world, and they didn't have the same expectations as VII veterans
@@joemarker1 The vast majority of new players in reality don't know who any of the original characters *actually* are. They are only familiar with a superficial veneer of the characters, gleamed from what they heard or experienced mostly from the compilation, which was already a big departure. The story and its themes shape the characters.
And now, with this new departure, these new players will be denied the experience of both the original story beats and the actual characterization of its inhabitants. I think what they will experience is an inferior version but if they are satisfied with what they got, I say that is fine. Those who decide to play the original, will see and experience the difference.
The only complaint that holds merit and I have too, is the false-advertisement, which could only happen once anyway. The good news is that because of all this, mods for the original FF7 went into overdrive, including a fully-voiced one that recently came out. So the experience got and will get even more love than ever before. And it deserves it.
@@geoa8071 I agree with your statement, I just don't see the issue.
I'm probably just pissy because it looks to me like people didn't like the game, then try to make it seem like they are just looking out for the best interest of others. It makes no sense to give square the finger because of the poor souls who didn't play the original.
I'm split on the false advertising thing too. If some feel they were mislead, I understand how they were disappointed. I myself was more intrigued than I would have been were it the case that the twist was more or less spoiled from the PR. Some people were out 60 bucks or more for something they didn't end up liking, and that's shitty. But if I buy a game on day one before any sales (which is extremely rare these days) I'm accepting the risk that I'm taking a gamble.
That's cool about the modding community though. I don't have a gaming PC, but that sounds pretty sweet.
@@joemarker1 Oh trust me, fans of the original complaining about their pre-order/day-1 purchase bear a great degree of responsibility too. As "polarizing" a matter as this is made out to be, in reality, it isn't black-and-white at all. No matter how big of a share of blame one might want to thrust upon the devs, regardless of how deserving or undeserving it may be, as a consumer, one always must be responsible with their purchases.
One should make sure that such an important purchase is as close to their expectations as possible as the entire current state of the modern gaming industry isn't ideal, unfortunately. Case in point, skepticism prevented me from pre-ordering or buying it on day-1. I checked up online what was going on with what I cared about the most (story, characterization) and ended up going "well, this isn't for me". And that was that.
Everybody can and should vote with their wallet, and do so intelligently while they are at it.
To everyone who liked this game, I say I'm glad you enjoyed it and hope the next installments are as enjoyable if not more.
There really isn't a reason for an online war amongst different kinds of FF7 fans! ✌
P.S. If it ever piques your interest:
1. the requirements for the original are very low (PS1-era game after all), so no high-end gaming PC is necessary by any means
2. I don't imagine it will ever be unavailable on Steam, or more expensive than it is now (13 Euros currently, that should be no more than 14-15 US-dollars)
3. the 7th Heaven mod pack modernizes it as much as possible (not taxing the requirements either) and the Echo-S mod adds a high-quality full voice-over of the entire game. And the voice actors are great too!
@@geoa8071 That actually sounds like I might try it out. I'll keep those mods in mind and probably give it a shot sometime. Thanks!
As for the rest, I completely agree. You're a reasonable internet person!
Hey, remember when fans said "You can't hate on The Phantom Menace, you have to wait until this entire new prequel trilogy is out before you can hate any one movie in it!" Yeah, that never happened--this is an entire, full-priced game, and deserves to be critiqued as an entire, full-priced game.
Edit; oh hey, you brought up the same point moments later.
Yep.
Dudes just another fanboi hoped on copium being pissy that the OGs don't approve. We don't approve because it's not the same game. It's literally a sequel masquerading as a "remake"
Did you watch the video at all? Or did you just jump straight to the comments. Gen Z attention spans I swear
Final fantasy games worked because of the "lower" graphical worlds. The golden era of the 90s games weren't the fully polished, fully graphical realised games of the modern era. Just like reading a book, it was your imagination, filling in the blanks, which immersed you fully in the story, in tandem with the great story telling itself. You have to play the role of the character, and there must be your interpretation. With hi-fi graphical games of the ps5, an element of this is lost, and so too is the immersion.
What frustrates me about this whole conversation and people like me who disliked the Remake having to defend our stances is that it's not even about "preference" or caring about storytelling principles, or even about loyalty to Sakaguchi. Sakaguchi has long since moved on from Final Fantasy, but that doesn't mean we should just blindly accept whatever gets thrown at us during Remake. For me it's about how the Remake's changes fundamentally undermine the entire central theme of the original game. The original game's lore was structured and built around the idea of conveying both life and death, and how even though someone is truly dead they are never truly gone, they are always with you in spirit, in your thoughts, in your heart. How is the Remake supposed to get that point across now that any character can just be brought back to life at any point? How can the Remake properly convey both life and death with these new rules? They have completely changed what the entire story was built around. You can make these characters go down a different path, but that will ultimately just lead them to becoming different characters and a different story. The writers of Remake are just blatantly disrespecting the integrity of the original story, but all of the Remake supporters are just ignoring that and acting like it's always been this way when that isn't true. And what bewilders me the most is that these same Remake supporters then turn around and say that the people who dislike it are the ones being disrespectful when the Remake writers are the ones showing no respect or care for the original game's core themes.
I say this not out of disrespect for Remake supporters but out of confusion about the logic they are following. It doesn't make any sense to me.
@UCY8yM53Jus4xq-_ZGvXJuGg No that makes sense. And yes they were the ones who wrote og and are the ones doing the remake. It just seems to me like they just decided to change the fundamental themes of FFVII, also they are probably creating this based off of things that were added to ffvii lore later in the Compilation. I also don't know if the writing makes more sense or expresses the core themes of the og better in the original Japanese language. But from what it seems it just seems like they're undermining the core themes of the og.
Removing the victims of the plate collapse was a HUGE blunder. That part of the story raises the stakes. It shows the lengths Shinra is willing to go through to remove Avalanche as a threat, even going so far as to kill hundreds of innocent civilians. This is the company that created Sephiroth and, by proxy, he himself will stop at nothing to get what he wants. Having your own teammates survive the collapse reeks of contrivance and means we can no longer know when someone will truly be dead.
That and they blew their Sephiroth load WAY too early. In the OG, you don't see him for the entire first part of the game. You just hear about him and what he has done. You know that he's "dead" because official reports say he is, but his body is never found. Then when he makes another appearance, you're shocked because you find out he survived. But at the same time, you had that seed of doubt when you know Shinra lies in their reports all the time. The story has layers, people! It has nuance! It has *consequences!!!*
15:48 "Oh and they face off against destiny itself" had me rolling, it came just out of left field as it did in the game
One thing I never seen discussed anywhere is how some people just assume that if you didn’t like Remake then it means that you don’t like changes.
I actually liked many of the new ideas and dialogues, but I also hated some of them (usually the most relevant ones). I don’t like how they were presented and I’m pretty sure that they could have moved the plot in the same direction, just with a different approach.
For example I understand the marketing decision to include Sephiroth, but was it really necessary to show him every 5 minutes and have a totally pointless battle at the end? It was fun, sure, but it could have been someone else and save Sephiroth for part 2 or 3. In fact I think that just mentioning him during the game would have exponentially increased the hype for the next game.
That's the difference between a connected trilogy based on a famous classic game, and a connected series of an original IP no one knows about. Square Enix lacks the patience that a studio like Nihon Falcom has, because they know people lick Sephiroth's boots and wouldn't dare pass up on that marketing opportunity.
For context, Falcom's flagship JRPG series, Kiseki, has an interconnected story set in the continent of Zemuria across more than a dozen games currently divided into 4 arcs, each of which is a subseries that focuses on one country in the continent. The first game was released in 2004 and the latest game was released in 2022. Each arc usually has three main villains. The first villain tends to be the focus of the surface plot of the first game in each arc, while the second villain plans in the shadows but hides in plain sight. Then, after the first villain is thwarted, the second villain reveals themselves at the end of the first game or somewhere in the second game, and becomes the main villain of the arc. The third villain is a group called Ouroboros, which the protagonists of each arc come into contact with as a result of their conflict with the second villain. They're the overarching main villain of the entire series. They never show up in the first game of an arc, it's always the second.
The shortest Falcom waits to introduce a main villain into the story is a couple chapters, a few dozen hours of playtime. But the longest they've ever waited to truly reveal an antagonist, that being the Grandmaster of Ouroboros, was 14 WHOLE YEARS. It took them 14 years and 10 games to just show her face since Ouroboros' existence was revealed in the second game in 2006. To a lesser extent, there's Chancellor Osborne, the main villain of Cold Steel IV, who was introduced and teased as a future villain in Trails in the Sky the 3rd in 2007, appeared in Trails from Zero and Trails to Azure in 2010 and 2011 respectively, as well as 2013 and 2015 in Trails of Cold Steel I, II, and III as a major character. And only at the end of III in 2017 does he really become the main villain. They waited 10 whole years for that.
Square Enix can hardly wait a few hours. That's the difference in their power.
What I simply don't understand is why it's somehow okay in a remake to make such major (and stupid) changes to the story.
It didn't fly with RE3Remake where they removed sections that were in the original and they essentially ruined Nemesis. It didn't fly with changing by a fraction of a second when Han Solo shoots Greedo in A New Hope.
But somehow, changing everything in FFVII is okay. Fans are okay with it!? People are like: "Sure! Kill Tifa instead of Aerith! We don't care! As long as we're surprised!"
Imagine if they remade A New Hope but Palpatine from the future in Rise of Skywalker showed up to try to mess with the timeline or some shit.
Star Wars fans would be up in arms.
But somehow it's okay for Square to completely shit on the meaning and story of the original. As long as fans get to see the characters in high resolution and that there are surprises.
RE3 is fine. Nothing about it was fundamentally changed. It’s the same story as the original.
@@kjh4496 just half the game annexed from it's original,all jill's alternate costumes,
the mercenaries
(first mercenaries mode in a resident evil game) live selection, barry burton.😂
You're right we got the same story just a watered down version from what we originally got in 1999.
@@kjh4496and what you just stated is fundamental bullshit.
its not a remake, its a sequel. the title is remake. Did you not pay attention to the plot at all?
@@DellikkilleD It was a misleading title to what any normal person would consider. The plot is nonsensical.
I really wish I enjoyed this game, All I want in life is to go back to the world of FF7. But this game just wasn't FF7, it was another game wearing the dead skin of FF7 as a disguise. If you don't remember what FF7 was then you may not notice. But if you do, then you'll notice the seams of skin stitched together - changed plot points, changed characters, irrelevant DLC, changed themes, changed emotions, changed atmosphere - and once you notice that it's just a monstrous disguise then you can't not notice the monster beneath that is trying to pretend to be the FF7 we all love and remember and want to be able to love and cherish in a faithful and respectful remake.
The thing is that it isn’t and was never meant to be a remake. It is a sequel taking place after the events of FFVII. Naming it remake was misleading but anyone following the game before release pretty much knew it wasn’t really a remake. The name remake signifies sephiroth manipulating the lifestream to alter the timeline and maybe the destruction of fate. But I have a hunch fate is not so easily broken and that everything will ultimately unfold the same. Perhaps the timeline where zack is alive the events will unfold differently and you get two stories in one. The original and the what if.
@@the_argus5142 Don't try and gaslight me into believing that hogwash. The FF7 remake was advertised as a remake for years all the way up to release day and it wasn't until we got to play it that we truly learned how significantly and drastically the the original had been bastardized, to the point where they have to use a time traveling antagonist and an alternate timeline just to explain these extreme deviations from the plot.
@@benfubbs2432 not trying to gaslight and they did make it seem like a remake at first. And that is sort of messed up for sure. But long before the release they were saying it was not going to be a one-to-one remake. On the way to a Smile. Was released like 10 years before remake and is what take takes place between FFVII and Remake. Square was saying it was going to be different from the beginning. How they advertised vs what they said in press releases was completely different.
@@the_argus5142"it's literally not meant to be a remake!"
Then why is the full title of the game "Final Fantasy: REMAKE"
Ya dense dipshit.
@the_argus5142 again.
They shouldn't have subtitled it REmake.
It's absurd how disingenuous these remake/rebirth fans are. There's some serious gaslighting at play here.
They aren’t disingenuous. Call them what they are, liars.
cause they're sheep who don't want to acknowledge they've been had and realize their brand bias is being used against them
It's totally ok to like these games, and I wish I did too. The "it's a Remake not a Remaster" line is so shallow and tired though.
Like, ok? And? What if we wanted a modern remaster with some new mechanics and features? Even if we agree making a sequel or reboot is what we wanted, that still doesn't make the execution good. Like it's not even a new story. It's the old story with a ton of extra padding, some shallow and insufferable new side characters that add nothing, a ton of anime grunts and trite dialogue, with the only significant new addition being a bunch of fourth wall breaking inter-dimensional time travel multiverse nonsense that is read from the characters mouths, but it's basically just the writers lecturing us through them.
What did that actually add to the story? Besides robbing key scenes of their subtlety and emotional weight, what themes are we exploring? The original took some deep dives into finding joy and hope despite grief, loneliness and desolation. This reimagining robs those themes to basically say "what if everything was new!?" in exasperating longform diatribes ... but never seems to decide it actually has anything to say. Just that it could. Or something?
@@brianhamilton3582 Yep. Just a lazy cash-grab with some disrespectful and pretentious fluff thrown in.
@@kjh4496 That's essentially what disingenuous means.
Square Enix, you want a bunch of timelines? Go remake Chrono Trigger then! Not for FFVII...
ff7 is one of their most popular games ever.
makes sense to milk it as much as possible
OMG this!
I am so sick of people acting like FF7R is perfect.
Well, it is for me and many other people. It is how it is .
@@SnuSnu91 you are wrong :)
@@SnuSnu91 your genetics prevent you being right
@@Deport_All_nonWhites YoU aRe WrOnG :)
@@SnuSnu91Well you like trash writing so 💁🏼
They completely missed the entire point… even with out the completely inconsistent whispers.
Put Sephiroth in the same amount and end with the Kalm flashback… cash in the hype of seeing him part 2.
With you 1,000% on the compilation. None of it would stand on its own without nostalgia. They’re cash grabs that hurt the source material
My personal fave hollow argument is "FF7 was your first RPG so of course you're gonna have an emotional attachment to it." I was a JRPG veteran when FF7 dropped. Among others I already had every other FF game available in the US at the time under my belt as well as the BoF games not to mention Chronotrigger which I never believed could be topped. To this day no game has been able to come close to the wonder, amazement, personal engagement, gut-wrenching emotions both high & low that I felt playing FF7 for the first time. As much as I'd like to hope otherwise I can accept that it's very likely no other game will ever come close.
The thing I hate the most about Remake, besides it not being a Remake is that I can't recommend it to anyone who has never played the original. It completely spoils important moments and characters and dumbs it down to the level of storytelling from the FF7 compilation games, which in truth this Remake only caters to.. hence, why the fanfiction trashfire that is Crisis Core DOES have a faithful remake. I now have to deliberately warn people who want to get into this franchise to avoid Remake before playing the original, when all I wanted is for Squenix to extend the lifespan of the now very dated looking original FF7 for a new generation of gamers who missed out it's incredible story and themes about the cycle of life, death and grief and the darker depiction of Avalanche as an eco-terrorist group. Now it's all fate vs destiny, just like any other Nomura game.
Thanks for the vid, been playing Remake for the first time and while there are definitely parts I like, this game overall is shockingly uneven to trudge through. But what was even more shocking for me, was how aggressive I've seen some fans act towards anyone who dares vocalize that disappointment in online spaces. FF used to be one of my favorite series, and I've never stopped wanting to love it, but SE has spent the last 2 decades or so throwing nearly everything I liked about it away. I've accepted that's just how it goes, and I'm sure they have plenty of new fans who love what they're putting out now, but it's nice to not feel alone in my disappointment for a change.
Every video I've seen so far of yours is SPOT ON. Thank you for your opinion.
As someone who hasn't played The Original, nor the remake, the remake sounds like being bombastic for the sake of being bombastic, and also being as safe as possible, seems like it has become a case of making a "game for everyone" instead of "A game that anyone can enjoy", which is a subtle but important distinction.
alternate title
Kingdom Hearts VII: Advent Children
"square had this all planned out"
After rebirth, i don't even buy that they planed out this trilogy. And I'm supposed to believe, when Ff7 released they already planed out all the extra fluff they added to the 7 universe.
This game is a shitshow. You put it a lot more eloquently than I ever could.
Thank you! From a fellow Garth Marenghi fan.
When i saw the trailer for remake, i admit i was stunned by the visuals and nostalgia, but even then i was sceptical about the game. After seeing people play the game, seeing the whispers and how many important elements were changed or left out, I felt the same way about the game as i've done about every entry that squenix has attempted to "expand" the ff7 universe with, and to me it boils down to the same thing everytime - Money. Everything related to ff7 reeks of cashgrab and has fanfiction levels of quality to storytelling and it makes me a bit sad. I'm happy that ff7 is popular, but i'm also sad that ff7 is popular because it's being treated like a cash cow, that the company is trying to milk long after.
It also feels like a lot of people are happy to simple devour scraps of fanservice and can't relate to how some of us feel about ff7r, and fair enough, like what you like, not we say will take remake away from you and square's started down this path and is unlikely to deviate from it for a long time given remake's "success".
Maybe one day when they get around to "remaking" one of the other beloved entries from the golden era i.e 8,9 and 10, and people have to watch square add whispers that zoom around spira and braska never died, jetch's sacrifice isn't a sacrifice because he'll just be res'd by whispers, and chapu well he's recovering in a bed somewhere too, just hasn't woken yet, oh and yu yevon pops up in besaid and whispers into Tidus and Yunas ear "ooOOoh ... DesTinyYyy ... DreamErS wiLl aWAkennn" And when the credits roll and say "Part 1" you come to understand that all that extra padding they added, like "go here and do this thing that has nothing to do with anything" was just so they could justify it as a fully priced game. When that happens i want to see you swallow that whole thing and just smile and love it lol, either that or we hug it out, finally understanding eachother.
It's a shame, because I would'ave loved to have seen ff7 be remade the right way and joined everybody else in loving the crap outta it but oh well. Either way, salt aside i'm perfectly happy to just play the original again and just watch other people consume the new ff7 content for now, and who knows, when it all of it is released i might even play the games too.
The curse of immense popularity is that your story will keep artificially extending for profit and to please people.
Og was a timeless tale of love and loss, the remake is a B-rated thriller. When the suspense becomes the hierarchy of the story, it ruins ff7
The arguement that people already know and expect things within a narrative being a problem is destroyed by the existence of collumbo. That show was successful BECAUSE people already knew the answer; the question became how would the story unfold to that answer. It's been scientifically proven that spoiling the ending leads to MORE enjoyment. Thats what foreshadowing is for and when you've read a book once already you start to see new elements of foreshadowing you would have missed before. If at the beginning of collumbo the show had told the audience who the murderer was; and then at the end they decided the murderer was someone else. The audience would have felt cheated.
Remembering a story and xperiencing it again are two different things.
And scientifically, your proven to be full of shit.
.....weird. So if someone spoiles the ending to every show or movie that you haven't watched you'll find more enjoyment??? So if you never played ff7 orginal and someone told you exactly how it ended, you'd still play the game through happy with no issues. Hmm , sounds like a lot of remake reveals shouldn't actually bother you then. In fact all the early reveals for remake going forword can also be scene as forshadowing into events that will throw us off into simular consequences or worse. But maybe I'm missunderstanding what you're saying , honestly.
We didn’t ask for REMAKE we asked A remake.
It's very simple really.
Remaster: Upgrades in original engine to a title to make it run better, look better and marginally play better.
Remake: Remaking the original from scratch in a new engine. PERIOD. This doesn't mean that changes need to be made to the story, gameplay or characters.
Reimagining: Changes gameplay, story, dialogue or anything in between, usually made in a new engine.
Calling FF7 Remake a remake is dishonest, baitish and disingenuous. It's a reimagining through and through, a quite pretentious and bitter one as well. And having to pay 70 bucks, three times btw, for a disrespectful, revisionist and outright cashgrabby fanfic is just beyond the pale.
Facts bro, and it's crazy how all these people who support this "remake" are just blindly ok with game companies lying. That's what Square has done at the end of the day. They lied about their product and people will sit and try and justify it because they wanna see cloud battle sephiroth in HD lol
Tf are they supposed to call it then ? “FF7 but it’s not FF7” ? 90% of the game is faithful to the OG…
@@finixmoon127 90% of the game is FILLER
I liked remake but I do flat out believe that what they did was false advertising.
I respect that.
I agree I felt like I bought a different game then what was shown and what was told to us not to mention that they claimed after release that 7 would continue as it always has which is an outright lie in multiple ways 1 we know it won't and 2 in the ending it says to be continued in the unknown journey of 7.
It’s not lol you people make up all this stuff In your heads then cry about it when it doesn’t come true
@@MrAjking808 what part up that the game was advertised as a remake of Final Fantasy 7 because that’s exactly what they said it was and it wasn’t. It’s a different game with a different plot and different events.
@@codecatx5 lol you slow don’t get it huh? Just because it’s not a plot for plot doesn’t make it not a remake my guy . Stop being a crybaby
"Most people liked remake"
and most people like MCU slop, doesn't mean it's good.
Hey Orion. I've just put out a Remake critique and someone in the comments pointed me your way. My video is nowhere near as extensive or as well put together as your series, but I was also hoping for discussion, only to be me with insults. I will never understand the sort person that immediately gets personal when you criticise a piece of media they enjoy.
Anyway, just wanted to stop by and say I really like your channel and while we don't agree on everything, I think your arguments are well reasoned and supported. Keep it up!
Hey! Thanks very much for leaving a comment. I'll check out your video for sure.
Unfortunately, the insults come with the territory. It shouldn't be like that, but it is. Don't take any of them to heart. It's a deeply toxic fanbase.
Many of the subs for this channel don't agree with everything I have to say. Some think I'm too harsh, others think I'm too lenient. But I think we agree on the larger messages. Thanks again for reaching out. I appreciate it :)
@@orion8550 My pleasure - thanks for all the great content!
Bro. I hate that you are absolutely right.
Two things I never really understood about the remake. First is, if they want to tell it differently, just tell it differently. It'd still get complaints, but you don't need a metaphysical justification for it that just throws it in your face. Unless, if course, it really is timeline shenanigans so they HAD to invent plot dementors as an explanation. Second is, why the padding? Like, they said they couldn't fit the whole remake on one release, it had to be these small parts, but this game is LOADED with bloat. Entire chapters and characters are completely pointless. Either Nojima and Nomura really have no filter anymore and throw any old junk at the wall to see what sticks, OR they were deliberately inventing this fluff because they knew their game would be 20 hours long without it. And even then, they should have just included more free exploration in Midgar and activities to do, rather than the garbage we got. They could have cut at least a dozen hours of crap out of this game, and we could have made it all the way to Junon in this release.
its not a remake, its a sequel.
Finalyy, someone understand the core problen of that padding. They could have done the whole remake in one part, but they split it and then padded to the hell out of it.
@@spatrk6634 It's deceptive nonsense, and incredibly disrespectful.
What! You didn't like the part where Cloud has to control the robot hand which was merely a background detail in the original? How dare you disrespect its promotion to padding material in the remake 😱
I agree a 100% with you, so many parts in this game are desingenuous and obviously made to slow down your progression, my suspension of disbelief was completely shattered by the train graveyard. It used to be roughly 4 screens and was done in 20 minutes in the OG before you reached sector 7 just in time to face the Turks before the pillar fell down. Here? Why aren't the whispers mad at our characters and pushing them faster on their way to ensure they get there on time? But nooo, we have to find ghosts hiding in closets and learn more about Aerith's childhood! It's made even worse by Tifa's initial doubts growing constantly until we see the choppers and we do know for a fact Shinra is going to crash the pillar.
Why did the entirety of sector 7's inhabitants survive this time around? Shouldn't this anger the whispers? I mean they are supposed to want the timeline to go the way it did in the original game, so why do we evacuate the sector and how are we even able to locate the 7th Heaven when an entire plate fell right on top of it ? Everything should be destroyed beyond recognition and any salvaging was impossible back in 1997, so why can we go back now ?
The new content felt forced and didn't add any layers to the main cast that was either necessary or coherent to the story at all. The worst offender has to be the Shinra Building for me. It was so exciting and fun in the OG to infiltrate the place, in the Remake it's just so bland and boring. Why don't we get arrested in this version by the Turks ? So much tension was removed by not having the massacre occur and having to follow the trail of blood and bodies left supposedly by an unknown assailant, his identity only confirmed when you find the president of the company everyone was motivated to meet, instantly dispatched on his desk by a long katana.
And God, the Drum is the worst dungeon I've ever seen in a game, it overstayed its welcome and the phone mechanics to switch between your party and how Red has to run across platforms Cloud should have been able to jump over. It just felt so uninteresting and padded.
Had the game given more freedom in our exploration of Midgar, to see new sectors and quests to interact with its citizens, the game just feels so bland in comparison to what it could have been.
Sewer levels suck. Having to go back through a level you previously completed to progress the story also sucks. It boggles the mind how Square thought it would be so great to combine the two with Leslie's contribution to the story (which was rather generic and brought nothing of substance to the lore) to make the story progress.
Chadley was an ok addition in the Remake, but his constant apparition in Rebirth was simply too much for me. I'll stick to Remake for this comment but I still found it rather weird how we trust an AI designed by Hojo of all people to be on our side in the grand scheme of things.
TLDR: nothing that was added in Remake justifies that the entire game happens in Midgar and every chapter received an unhealthy amount of padding. The fact is this game could have been done in one part had they remained faithful to the original story. Also Sephiroth appears way too quickly and any amount of mystery and nuance with the character is lost. No, Kitase, the fact "everyone" knows who Sephiroth is doesn't justify the fact you should milk your main antagonist the way you guys have in these games.
All the charm got lost, it’s like they tried too hard and messed up the story and I loved the original maps I was lookin forward to seeing them , what they actually did by changing locations around was a major disappointment and I def don’t like the combat as much as the original, I mean how are they gonna do the open world part and not screw that up ? The cities feel horrible compared to the original
Great video and script writing what thoughts came to you. Thanks so much sharing your feelings and elaboration or anyone else who helped. It was just a well told, well explained what I felt it was flat, and unnecessary changes. One of my favorite Original scenes was the dead impaired snake, that just hinted Sephiroth’s strength with mystery behind him, without seen him and just been told as you said. Less is more, the examples you gave on how to make him threatening in REBIRTH without revealing him.
Thank you!!
Square could fix this, but as boldly as they fixed 14. Fix remake 1. Do it again, removing the kingdom hearts madness. Hide Sephiroth. Kill everyone in sector 7. Get rid of the plot ghosts. Almost all of the same game is there, it wouldnt be nearly as much work as the first time. GET RID OF THE DRUM. Fuck, Id buy it AGAIN for that. Id pay full price. Do it again, but right, instead of making yourselves double down on the parts the core audience hates.
they shud release 2 games: rebirth: the next installment of the game with wtv they got planned... and ff7 fan remaster version: ff7 remake without the madness and true to orinial+rebirth true to original.
Honestly, it wouldnt even be that hard. they have all the assets and they could keep the game the same just delete some scenes and change a few things, combine the games into a whole game and they are set!
it would please the fans of new multiverse nonsene AND give OG fans what they wanted. And they could release an extra game on the cheap (again since they got the assets n wtv) and many fans would buy it, even if they liked the game now. It would be great for their profits (milking the public as they currently doing) AND please fans.
if they was smart theyd do this.
Let's be realistic, they aren't going to start over. That's an option that's gonna cost a heck of a lot of money. The only thing they can do is create an threat even greater than Sephiroth and have him act as a plot device instead of the main villain. Since the remake series is supposed to be a brand new story, they can create something totally new and totally good, if not better than the original; but they have to go FAR beyond the original story to make this happen. Because adding all of these ghost and stuff just made things so complicated that they can't stay anywhere near the original storyline.
@@avaliausd. Yep, they effed up completely!
I genuinely dislike that the company though "But people already know the story". Then changed it.
I can't help but think that they just wanted to apply their own ideas.
A classic isn't made better if someone changes it.
I have read Jurassic Park 4 times.
Thank you for using that Star Wars example. Metal Gear Solid and Hideo Kojima would've been another good example. Creative minds are a powerhouse of good stories. But they're not good _storytellers._ They need to be reigned in, otherwise you're going to get an absolute mess of a story with plot threads that go nowhere, characters that are underdeveloped, and no real ending in mind. That's what I'm seeing with remake. They're putting too much into it and they don't have an idea of how it's going to be ended.
I remember the feeling I had the moment they announced remake would be episodic. I knew that meant this series was going to be dragged out. Then I found out that the staff was going to be replaced like 2 years before it came out. They didn't plan this out very well. They had an idea and just went all in with no idea how it would come to fruition. You're so spot on in your analysis. I'm glad I'm not the only one that realizes there are more bad things about it than good. Bravo!
Great comment! Thank you! Ah yes, the moment SE announced multiple parts...that takes me back. They couldn't even say how many parts it would be, hadn't even decided up until recently. The story still evolving behind closed doors. They're trying to get their hands around this thing, but they created the monster.
@@orion8550 Yes. I have a feeling the project will limp to the finish line, but at that point, many of the core fans will abandon it. Again, just like Star Wars with the Disney trilogy.
It's similar to how The Hobbit became two movies...then a trilogy! Just pure cash-in nonsense!
I agree with almost everything you said here. I do like remake, but I also think they are playing with fire. So many remakes are screwing up good material from the past nowadays. They already broke so many things of the OG theme. The way I see it they have to stick to two major themes to save this story. One Aerith has to die for the life stream to help holy stop meteor. Two Zach has to die for Cloud to get the buster sword and to have his mental breakdown. The ship has halfway sailed for one of these. The ship has completely sailed on keeping Sephroth as a mystery (which as you pointed out makes him far less of a big bad). So effectively to keep this story being completely crap now only thing they can assure is killing Aerith. She is the only ancient, therefore she is the only one that can coax the life stream from within to help holy. If she lives then they will have to stop meteor before it is cast. This will break the story and themes so bad (hence the cover emblem) beyond repair. If they make anyone else do it just wouldn’t make sense!
Actually aerith didn't need to die, she had already cast holy, sephiroth thought he had stopped her but was in fact too late, had she died before casting holy sephiroth would've been unstoppable.
@@josephcoffey2175 Areith needs to die for the lifestream to assist holy (cause as we saw, holy by itself isn’t enough). Only Areith can coax the lifestream in assisting holy from within the lifestream as a part of it. We learned this from “on the way to a smile”.
I never read "on the way to a smile" I'll have to check that out, thanks bro for the insight 🤙🏻
Stop meteor before it is cast?? Why would sephiroth cast meteor? after he teamed up with Cloud to fight the fates... its like he is a totally different person with different motivations. Im not sure he still wants to "become a god" as he did in the orginal...
@@sandermez3856 well again if he never cast meteor then you kinda break the story and the cover emblem for FF7. If you are not going to cast meteor then you don’t need the black materia (we already know they are going for it). Since they are going for it, then you know he is going to cast it. It is the only thing the black materia does. So your point is mute. He is still casting Meteor. So holy still needs to be cast to stop it. And holy isn’t strong enough by itself. So Aerith still needs to be in the lifestream to stop it. I am actually warming up to Zack timeline is technically the lifestream. Still don’t think it is, but some things are pointing to it (hole in the sky in his but not clouds).
It's been a pleasure hearing you dissect the issues of FF7R. At its core I found that my main issue with the remake is how blatantly misleading SE were with how it was marketed. We were expecting a remake, not a sequel or some alternate timeline bs that did not exist in the original game. This is made worse by the fact that this game cannot stand on its own without prior knowledge of the compilation of FF7. I believe you touched on that tidbit in a prior video, but this game satisfies neither the people expecting a faithful remake nor new players getting into the series.
So now we have to believe the old guard of SE can somehow conjure up a satisfying story when I believe none of their recent games can hold muster. From what I've seen of the last act of the game...yeah I'm not gonna hold my breath. I mean seriously they had us fighting THAT and expect us to believe they can raise the stakes?
here from the future, it only got worst
SPOILER: they basically double down on safe bet and barely changed anything making the plot irrelevant with side tangents that go nowhere, character arc worse than before and Sephi spam constantly to remind you "how dangerous he is" while making him a joke instead
this is the result of devs failing to realize why the original was loved and more so how little faith higher ups had in the remake to begin with to change it so pointlessly and not double down onto it
it be one thing if Barret died in part 1, they changed fate and now the story is unraveling, (like Dyne not being stopped cause barret was gone so he escalates, or Wutai shunning Yuffie cause they don't go there first) but instead its just worse and over explained
nothing is left to player to realize cause "you're too stupid so we'll dumb it down and explain it all to you bluntly" there's no mystery in any scene when they immediately tell you the answer to it all"
and worse there's nowhere to go in part 3 cause the finale was blown in spoilers in "part 1" so there's no point to it now
FF7Rs feel like spectacle pieces meant to wow you with high visual noise than actual quality, bloating design with "more is more" than "less is more" cause without that they can't justify the $70 price points each part has to what should ALWAYS OF BEEN a one and done remake game and once all 3 parts are out, it won't have any purpose at all and be considered just a bad remake project that wastes everyone's time
Nomura isn’t EVEN good at the character / outfit designs anymore… his designs went from impractical / fantastical to just gay… plaid & hot topic hair highlights & blazers with hoodies
Good points. Making a story, about a story, within a story, was just a terrible idea imo. As you say, If we did get that retelling we all wanted since that PS3 tech demo, i very much doubt people would have complained about it at all. Some of the best things in remake were when it was retelling it's original scenes! It's just unfortunate they want to take it in this unnecessary direction.
I hope modders someday take the assets, cut the shit, and give us a more faithful retelling.
We do have some amazing modders modding the original game and putting remake models into it, with voice acting. Look up tsuna mods, him and his team are doing gods work and need WAY more support.
I see it more like it's kind of like the A plot is the retelling of FF7 but there's a B plot that justifies WHY we're retelling the game and the devs have some room to explore other artistic approaches. it's clear that Sephiroth is doing something and his plans are why we're going back and retelling FF7 at all. this B plot would eventually become the final encounter and resolve a conflict that justifies going back to remake FF7.
Would I have loved a 1:1 remake? yes, I definitely would. but playing a "new game" with the characters I love from FF7 with story I don't know? that's arguably better.
I guess the moment I gave up on the 3-disc game being retold is when they announced it was going to release in multiple parts and the first would only cover the 6 hour mark of a 40 hour game.
where would you distinguish "the shit"? is the 3rd chapter, running around with Tifa doing sidequests "shit"? because that was not in the original. Cloud and Aerith in the coliseum?
Clouds migraines and Sephiroths appearances? arguably most of those DO happen in FF7, they just didn't SHOW Sephiroth, it was just text.
I'm all for criticism and that people feel lied to about what remake was but there's so much negativity for what seems like only "it's NOT FF7" and I guess since I came to terms with that almost 3 years before release I find people unreasonable when demanding it to be.
@@chainclaw07 A lot to unpack there lol. I probably won't address everything. Firstly, if you are happy with what you got, good for you.
So this remake is to "create room for the devs to be more artistic"...Ok. And what did we receive in the first part?: Padding. Leslie's sidequest. Train graveyard. Switch on some sunlamps. More padding. Plot ghosts. These sidequests, including where the story takes a nose dive, were not very artistic imo. The Tifa one you are referring to wasn't too bad. It was nothing special though, basic fetch quests. Dialogue was good. Jessie's sidequest wasn't too bad either. Wall market and the colosseum was the better of the improvements also.
Sephiroth in this is like a turd that won't flush, just like the ghosts. Terrible idea. Zero mystery for new players, which this game was apparently made for. Then they show Cait Sith, and Zack with zero context to who they are, and what's happening? Glad I'm not a new player.
"Making a new story about characters i love is arguably better" Ok. So make a sequel then? I wouldn't have complained. But basically retredding most of the original story throughout the game, then flipping the script with KH nonsense. Is that artistic, or just lazy writing? This is the shit I'm referring to lol. 1:1 would honestly have been better.
RE1 Remake, if you have played it, is the perfect example of how to execute a remake. The remake was that good it basically surpassed the original '96 version (that's still good too). It added new stuff but remained faithful. FF7 Remake is just not going to better it's original, (for what I've seen so far), imo. And that's disappointing... Not because of the convoluted plot, but because it has been executed badly. I'm quite sure that if it wasn't episodic, there would have been less padding to stretch a 5hr section into 30hrs.
Love to be proved wrong with the next parts, but i doubt it. When i take what i got from the first part in terms of "new stuff", most of it just wasn't that good. Again just my opinion.
@@Scott-M1 with Sephiroth, don't you think that you have a preconceived bias about what the best Sephiroth is? Making your assessment about him toward new players... debunk?
And about the extra flair - wasn't Eligor a cool boss fight, that deepened our understanding of Aerith and how isolated she feels among humans? Doesn't chat. 3 show us a Tifa that conforms to her surroundings because Tifa is introverted in the sense that she finds it easier to sacrifice herself rather than burden others and to conform to her new circumstances instead of raging against the world?
Doesn't all these things flesh out and improve upon the presentation and depth of FF7? And if so, Doesn't a few bad takes in the same vane balance out instead of drag the whole thing down?
I was annoyed when they made you fight apps a second time, Basically in these discourses it feels like I'm just OK with compromises and others are not. I want the full 3 disc game remade and playable start to finish... I'm OK compromising that structure ... to actually have a remake of the game. Did I like the whispers? (Their final encounter? Hell yes) No they felt like meta expectations on the devs expressed in story and gameplay. But I'm OK compromising to have a badass final fight both against FATE and Sephiroth- who clearly is a bigger bad this time around. They have a really hard task of balancing all these new things like Sephiroth and Zacks new additions BUT I see the possibilities THAT ARE there and hope for the best. I'm not ruling out that after the next part or the final part I will hate the remake. Luckily they ARE making ever crisis, a supposedly 1:1 remake, so you have that to look forward to
@@chainclaw07 I see your points, and again, good for you if you are happy with it. I just didn't like what they are doing with it, cons outweighed the pros for me. Agree to disagree. It's difficult to really articulate every point in a YT comment. You are better watching all the critique videos, like this one, that articulate that far better. There is nothing new I'm adding that hasn't already been said.
Ever Crisis is an episodic mobile game... Not quite the remake we asked for lol.
FFVII Remake is basically FFXIII wearing an FFVII skin. Almost everything that XIII was harshly criticized for gets a pass with FFVII Remake: no deep exploration and maps that are just endless hallways, no direct control of all members of your party simultaneously, doesn't open up until very late in the game, not bothering to explain the game world directly, splitting the story into multiple sequels, etc. All of that is okay in FFVII Remake, but not FFXIII for some reason.
I will say playing the demo of the remake gave me false hope. The bombing mission was perfect in my opinion. Then they immediately got off track.
Had square stuck to the original I was full willing to pay whatever the cost. I was understanding when they announced that the game would be episodic. But the remake was really just a betrayal and killed my hope for its future.
I was stupidly giddy when I first heard about this...not because it was FF7...well not totally because it was FF7, but it got my hopes up that my all time favourite game FF8 would then get the same treatment....then I heard the episodic element and I was slightly turned off. then I heard they changed the story and added 30+ hours of fluff (you can call it whatever you want, it's fluff to allow them to make more money by breaking up the game more!!)
Now I no longer want a FF8 remake unless it's a one to one remake....that story for me is perfect and if touched, it would make me actually angry!
Even in this video you say "we don't know where the story will go"....this line alone means it's not the FF7 remake people wanted...no matter how good the game might be
Honestly man, the only factor I like about this remake is the combat gameplay, it was good action rpg but still kept element of turn based, it was engaging but needed some more work to be perfected. But fuck changing the story, if there ever remake ANY other final fantasy title. They cannot change the story, yes add new dialogue and add new scenes or angles, but holy cow, do not touch the story, keep it the same. I’m a new fan and I’ve played the old titles. Why would I want the story to change in any of them. They’re perfectly written..
This video is aging nicely.
Absolutely. The amount of lying FF fans are doing to justify liking it is embarrassing
@@kjh4496 Bro you need to get a life 🤦♂
@@SnuSnu91 Why are you picking on him?
This is why I'm so happy 7th Heaven Mod Manager exists.
21:59 insomniac spider-man pretty much crushes this argument. Everyone knows who Doctor Octopus is, yet the game still built him up, cause that how story telling works. There is also the fact that many new gamers prob. know sephiroth from spinn off titles or kingdom hearts, and hearing about Ariths death is not the same as experiencing it
25:00 the jail scenario is to this day one of my fav. in the game, the haunting atmosphere. I was curious how the remake would portray it... they didn't, they completly removed it and replaced it with a tedious and boring lab section. It's the exact opposite of why fans where waiting for a remake.
Heck, would not be surprised if they completly remove Hojo mutating in his battle in future games, cause this fight already gets barely mentioned
This video aged well 👌
It comes down to this. They tried to fix what wasn’t broken
Can we sue in a big group? 😢 I really loved what this video said, and I was very open yo hear the good, the bad, and the ugly. Because even though I played REMAKE, and looks pretty, I got REBIRTH….but I too feel disappointment of questionable changes and Zack alive. I truly stand with the true planetary message. I’m tired of time Tavel and multiverse trope. It just doesn’t work for me here.
A Remaster is existing assets upgraded. A Remake is those assets RE MADE - from bottom up, It's simple, there is no confusion. If you Change the Story it's called a Reboot. So if somebody is upset about false marketing they are allowed to be, its up to SE to tell people what they are selling. If they weren't a multibillion company they'd be toast.
Re1 remake is a 1 for 1 remake with added stuff like Lisa Trevor.
FF7 remake is more like a reimagining similar to Silent Hill Shattered memories which is a reimagining of Silent Hill 1.
@@thegreatachiever4651 it's like a remake in the literal extreme.
Like they remade ff7 the way they want it not the way it should've been.
@@Kspice9000 Right.
Who cares if it’s “remake,”reboot”, “remaster”, etc. FF7Re is a terrible game from a gameplay aspect that also destroys core themes of the original. It’s such a strange thing to even argue about in the first place.
Why remake core aspects of the original? Aerith is supposed to die and is core to the story and game’s theme of life, death. She represented Sakagichi’s mother’s death for God’s sake. How disrespectful to the source material can you be? Inserting kingdom hearts no-one-dies and low effort low brow time travel BS is a straight up insult.
FF7R is a remake that redefines what a remake could be. All the events are still happening but with a twist. Small changes lead to bigger changes, transforming the greater narrative potentially encompassing the whole compilation of FF7.
It's over. We will never get the ff7 remake we always wanted. Only some Dr. Strange ripoff. The last chance was the ps3 era I believe.
This was so well put together and the fact that you didn’t need to put down the people that like the game to prove your points was brilliant. Bravo man. I skipped FF7 rebirth, like you I consider these remake games fan fiction.
I really love this video. So many great points. Great use of music as well. FF7 was something truly special I’ll never forget.
Imagine a remake of Breaking Bad with mostly the same story beats of the original, only now there's a Truman show aspect to it and the characters gradually become aware they're being watched so now they fight their destinies instead. That's FF7 remake, a farcical meta-spin of the original.
That's what Vince Gilligan always wanted to do. He just didn't have the technology at the time.
@@orion8550 😂
Square Enix was trying to reinvent the wheel by adding bells and whistles and sell it to people as three separate parts.
When you have Party Leader set to say Barret or Tifa and it still goes back to Cloud on field map. Multi dollar company btw.. they should pull out all the stops to please. 😪 Why is it so hard for companies to abandon this one simple option that use to be norm?
They updated Ocarina Of Time and Majora's Mask just fine why couldn't they do that with ff7
Holy only after 1-2 min in your video in I already respect you man not like the rest who insult us for liking ff7 remake
mona lisa is a bad example. Ive got a better one: We r making a Red Riding hood remake... But on the way to her grandma's she runs into the bad wolf several times. They argue about the merits of costumes and pretend. later, the wolf straight up reveals he will pretend to be the grandma and leaves. Then Red runs into spirits who try to keep the story intact. She arrives at the grandma's house but granny is there waiting for her. Then She must battle the wolf. Then the spirits come and explain that she is in an alternative universe. The wolf and red defeat the spirits. Then granny, wolf and red face the camera and we will wonder what holds for their future. where will the story go?
wtf? totally different story and missing the points of the original. But hey, remember the wolf? hes the big baddy! and the big deception. yeah, red riding hood! the remake! ooohhh!! wow! :O
I dont want to be that guy but at this point...its ridiculous. The people who defend this game are inhaling major, huge, toxic levels of copium. This game was marketed as a REMAKE! Look up the definition of the word. This "remake" is actually a sequel or re-imagining. The devs themselves said it. We were tricked and lied to. The story as it is is completely ruined by TIME TRAVEL....the laziest plot point ever in anything ever, ever! I literally have no excitement or hope for the next installments. I mean sure...the graphics and gameplay witll be good but the story, a huge factor for me, will be crap. I mean...think of it....we literally fought and beat advent children level sephiroth (plus the stupid kh heartless) in the first game when cloud was literally at his weakest. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?!
Metal Gear Solid Delta is on its way of doing everything fans wanted for FF7. A 1:1 remake of the classic with changes in graphics and quality of life options, also the ability to choose between modern gameplay and classic. And that's being made by Konami, of all companies, who kicked Kojima out and stripped themselves of their dignity!! Nomura and SE sold us a big lie with Remake, then completely removed the mask with Rebirth... And the hilariously low sales numbers show whatever plan they had for 7R is just not working as intended. But as long as they have fans never questioning their poor choices, worshipping Nomura and 7 as a brand, they'll keep selling merch and poorly written games and making a profit out of it.
Im so tired of multiverses and at this point I blame Marvel for that. So far the only piece of media I've seen working well with the concept is Alan Wake, and that's because they're going for surrealism rather than "look how things have changed! We totally fooled you! Death and stakes don't matter anymore bc everything subverts your expectations! We're so quirky!"
Square Enix tricked me to buy a sequel disguised as a Remake and I hated what new they added.
But the joke is on them, I will just pirate their games from now on.
If I'd describe this game in a single word I'd say it's "schizophrenic".
The graphics looks amazing when it comes to main character models and enemies/bosses, but some of the environments had botched PS3 graphics and pixilated textures and most NPCs clash with the artstyle of the game and look like they just migrated from Fallout 4.
The game has recreated some of the best story moments from the original FF7 Midgar section and at the same time it has some of the worst written moments in a Final Fantasy game ever (all the meta crap they added that doesn't belong in the story and has nothing to do with the themes of FF7)
The game had some of the best boss fights in series history and an engaging hybrid combat system but it also has hours and hours of boring gameplay represented by some of the most mind-numbing filler segments that serve no purpose beside artificially padding out the play time.
The game one moment fondly does call outs to moments and characters from the original FF7, then the next moment spits on the original and its fans and makes the characters act like its the worst thing ever...every tragic deaths, every meaningful heroic sacrifice, all has been undone, all the edges from the game has been sanded off.
It's like the game was directed and written by two people with diametrically opposed views on FF7, or one person with two clashing personalities, one who loves the original game and wants to honor it and please the fans of the OG by delivering the Remake that was promised, and also one who really hates FF7 and its fans and takes a lot of opportunities to spit at them and insult them and denigrate the original's storyline.
Buying and playing this game is like being in a relationship with an abusive partner, one moment they are sweet and loving and love to reminisce about the beautiful past, the next moment they are an abusive, vindictive liar that spits in your face after taking your money, it's utterly bizzare.
What is the point of playing an FF7 Remake when the story of FF7 has been altered significantly? Its not FF7 anymore.
Have only played the remake. I don't even need the original to see how flawed it was
There are only 2 reasons why studios keep remaking movies and games.
1:the licenses are getting near the end of their copyright dates and they need to renew them through a new installment in the series.
2:studios need to make money but have no talent or bravery for original titles. So they just brush the dust off of any and everything they already own.
The most idiotic argument I always hear defending its mistakes goes along the lines of: “But this problem was also in the original, that makes it okay for the reboot (sorry, “remake”) to do it even worse.”
People do not understand the significant change in having Reno incapacitated only to have Fate and Rude take over the role. They see: plate up -> plate down, Shinra wanted the plate down -> Shinra got the plate down. But unless fate was there, the button would not be pushed. To many, this and many other things aren't changes and the whisperers, who are the very plot of this game, haven't changed anything in their opinion.
@@vincentgraymore I don’t speak Nomura, sorry.
I appreciate criticisms of Remake despite how much I loved it. This was a well made video. For those worried about the clickbait title… don’t worry, 95% of this video is just meant to create understanding… most of it is not meant to invalidate those who enjoy the narrative decisions made.
I will mention that you included screenshot of one Audrey’s tweet that had a “controversial translation”… I love Audrey, and we have even collaborated, however, her translation infers a confirmation of the “many worlds” theory, when the quote was more likely meant to suggest that she (Jessie) was in fact… permadead. But that’s a bit inconsequential to the overall point being made. If you care I can provide the full translation.
I am very aware that SE made a decision that would make many unhappy. I feel fortunate that I was lucky enough to fall in its target audience. But I feel genuinely bad for those who didn’t get what they want from remake.
Thanks for the comment! :) Ooo that's interesting RE Audrey's tweet - my inclusion of that was really to reference the original source of the many interviews that had gone on to quote her translation. But yes, I wasn't aware that there had been some confusion/misunderstanding around the quote. Would definitely love to hear more - or I can search. Either way thanks for the info.
@@orion8550 I have had a couple of other translators look at the section. The agreed upon translation is-
Toriyama:
We see that Biggs is shown in the physical world and is shown to be alive. However, Jessie is not shown because we couldn't save her... that's what you are meant to see. One might see Biggs and see that his life could be saved by some miracle and think "Jessie might also be saved". But an important theme of this story is "loss". If all of the characters you see are able to survive in the future, that would have to be in a different story.
I personally don't know if they are doing a "multiple timelines" story or not. Despite what has propagated through Max Dood and other sources. It has absolutely not been confirmed. I don't think it really matters to those who didn't like the narrative though. I just fully expect a crucifixion of square enix if it ends up being a single altered timeline, where people point to badly translated ultimania quotes and call the developers liars. Truthfully they are simply attempting to keep the direction obscured for now.
Thanks for sharing! Interesting to see the differences. Overall, for the point of the quote, it becomes interesting to me when SE flag a theme from the OG which seems at odds with what I felt playing Remake. I'd be happy to bet top dollar Wedge survived, but the game seems to indicate that Jessie died (the gloves creating a possibility for something else, sure). Assuming she's permadead, perhaps her death is enough to meet the developer's definition of loss for this particular game, and perhaps the overall narrative. And I guess her death has been used by some fans as proof that SE respect the shock and loss of the original game. The disconnect comes for other fans because while Jessie is on the one hand, over on the other hand we have Zack and Biggs making their startling recoveries. So it feels like the game is saying we'll meet you half way, here's your death scene, and now we'll take back these other 2 characters we killed in the original and bring them back to the sandbox. It feels like the game is looking to expand its cast, rather than show how fleeting life can be. 5 years from now, if the game still manages to explore loss in a profound way (and the emotional beats of the original still ring true, despite characters moving about), maybe I'll feel a little differently on this. But it doesn't feel like the game is going that way.
I think that's a good point too about the developer quotes - it's only fair that SE should be able to keep things a little cryptic. Even if translations are made in error or not, I suppose fans shouldn't latch on too tightly to these developer quotes and what not. There could be cases of misdirection or things said simply in error, or without realising how it could be interpreted. There are some major secrets still to explore. And SE may even be working through several possibilities still. So yeah I don't think it would be fair to come down hard on them later on over a historic quote made during development. Although, the quotes that irk me are the ones which reflect on the themes of the original game.
@@orion8550
I am not sure the point of the quote is to equate the death of Jessie to the loss we feel in ff7 as a whole. I will withhold my judgement on how faithfully Remake tackles the core themes like loss until the series continues. I realize that is an argument you "crush" during this video, but I remain unconvinced that what we have seen so far is an indication that we won't have explored those themes in a meaningful way once the story is completed. They won't be exactly the same, they never can be, but everything I have absorbed on this so far has convinced me that the developers are extremely aware of what the core themes are.
You may be surprised to know, despite having a encyclopedic understanding of the compilation of FF7. I didn't like MOST of it. I enjoyed most of the light novels and short stories in OtWtaS... but beyond that and BC I found them dreadful overall. However, I never walked away from a compilation title and thought that it was a total waste.
The way remake is essentially incorporating what I see to be the best elements of the compilation is extremely enjoyable to me.
I hated the narrative mess that was AC but always wanted to have that Sephiroth fight in a ff7 title. I always loved the concepts of Weiss and Nero but hated their implementation in DoC. I for one think that the remake represents a way to create a masterwork that includes all of these elements while incorporating the primary narrative in a better way. I enjoyed Intermission much more than Dirge of Cerberus, and perhaps I will enjoy whatever Zack's survival story represents will be better than the mess that was Crisis Core.
Was the first part of Remake a little less depressing than the OG? Of course it was, just as I'd expect the next to be much darker. Do I think the third will completely retcon all death and give us some tropey "everyone survives" narrative? Of course not, I don't think most people think that. What remains to be seen is if somewhere in the new story of ff7 it loses its soul, and to me it hasn't yet... maybe it will... but I am fairly confident it will still tell an effective story about loss, growing up, creating a family from your own connections, treating the planet well and overcoming the lies we tell ourselves to survive.
@@schrodingersbabyseal In my humble opinion, the fact that we are even talking about "permadeath" in regard to FF VII tells me that, again in my opinion, many people don't have an FF VII, especially OG, grasp on death, and it is not their fault. We now need this kind of definition, which saddens me greatly. It does not align with the themes for me at least and even if the whole world burns in a Sephiroth wins this time in some sort of explicit "this is permadeath of everyone", I would have no faith in death as the developers still showed that they change things in fundamental philosophical and nonsensical ways, so I will probably go to my grave thinking there will always be more FF VII and it can have whatever imaginable added into it.
I do not think that "we" treated the planet well when we stabbed and grouched out its time shenanigan "eyes" (and perhaps released Sephiroth X), but I know that you are convinced that the whisperers aren't the planets creation, but I haven't followed that discussion for a long time. In a sense it would please me since I consider the lifestream a character that I liked but now borderline hate, but I would like the whisperers perhaps even less.
FF7 OG came with 3 disc one purchase day 1
FF7 Tragedy will be 3 disc 70$ of disconnect
FF7 OG hid Sephiroth to build tension
FF7 Reimbursement shows him every 30 minutes
FF7 OG showed how strong he was through gameplay
FF7 Re-Poop let you play as him and he can die
Picking up FF7 Refund as a new player you are ROBBED of EVERY moment that made the original game a timeless classic.
The one Sephiroth scene I would have kept is that Palmer saw him in the hallway. Also I would have found a way to keep the trail of blood. I know they did that to keep it T for teen but they could have been more creative. Maybe show Palmer watch Sephiroth walk down the hallway and when he goes into the next room you hear the massacre.
I think there are two big messages in the original game, one of them being the pro ecology message. The insertion of the "ghosts" make that message weaker in my opinion. This is my biggest grip with the remake.
Changes are okay, the problems are when those changes hit the central points of the original title.
Bah, not like I played the original so I don't have much to say about this, but I definitely agree that removing character deaths reduce the impact of the story. I don't think people recognise that. I think it definitely hurt the writing that they spilt an entire story into three parts, intended to retain it into one game so gamers can play one or another without much context. That's all I can say, I think.
Not to mention they probably wanted to show off every character model in the game before making you lot wait for the next part in a few years at that point of time, again for the fans.
Something that's very funny is that the first remake is less than 10% of the original game. The new remake brings us up to 30% of the original game. 70% to go...
I think 7R nailed the characters, which is huge, but 7 and Crisis Core put "dealing with grief" as maybe the central theme of the overall story. Both of Cloud's major character changes hinged on important deaths, and Sephiroth himself is an example of someone who failed to cope with the tragedy of his life.
While I'm happy to see new ideas (the sneaky title "reMAKE", actually being a verb, to say the characters are the ones remaking the story), I hope they don't lose the essence of the story by forgetting the main theme. If it's going to be a new FF7 or even a sequel, they have to directly address the deaths that might not happen again. It could be interesting to see the cast react to the original story beats. How is Cloud going to find himself this time?
It was clearly worth it to retell the beloved original story faithfully, to refresh it for a generation, so they had better have a good plot in mind for part 2 if they're going to pass on the pure remake.
You def never played the original lol
The last paragraph make it seams that you're stating they made the same story as the original, if that truly was what you intended to say, sorry but... no... just... no.
The story changed a lot, chamges to the overarching plot:
If the story was the same a fathfull recreation, sephiroth would have yet to show up, there would be no whispers, biggs, wedge and jessie would be dead.
Changes they mad for the sake of not being m-rated:
The shinra building would be a total bloodshed with all of their employees sliced in pieces, shinra wouldn't be increasing the mako reaction explosion radious, meaning avalanche actualy intended the amount of destruction they caused.
Remember when Jessie was a shallow background character we didn't get to know? I miss that Jessie lol. This current Jessie is making cringe selfy faces in MY face and won't leave me the F alone... all the girls are obnoxiously quirky but Jessie is a 'lolz I'm so cute' menace! lol
The characters were hardly nailed down.
Why is Tifa bubbly now? She's meant to be reserved for a long time due to being painfully aware that Cloud is absolutely insane - she just keeps him around because he's the last living connection she has to the past.
Acesahn summed up Jessie well, but... why is so young now? It's shown in an easter egg that she was a vet from the shinra-wutai war in the original.
Cloud is now sane for some reason. No massive nervous breakdown in the honey bee inn? Doesn't try to shrug everything off? He isn't a massive asshole to anyone who tries to get even slightly close to him?
Barret is now gung-ho, full of action, and weirdly shallow. What happened to him being full of nothing but guilt and anger? He didn't go after Shinra because they were "bad dudes!" that "stomped on the little guy!", he had a blood feud with them because they murdered nearly everyone he knew in a massacre.
7R is a great game. I truly believe it is a triumph in the Final Fantasy franchise. I am still disappointed and saddened that they were deliberately dishonest with us about what to expect from it. I get a great deal of enjoyment from this game. It's possible to love something and see its merits while simultaneously feeling crushingly disappointed by it.
I will admit, when I put myself into the mindset of "this is not actually Final Fantasy 7" it does increase the overall quality of the game dramatically. Unfortunately there are still some pretty major issues with the game. IE, the pacing the the game is absolutely awful. I swear, if you took all the the scenes where you are either forced to walk while characters talk, or are forced to stand there and watch a tv, (before even taking into consideration the actual gameplay portions that serve no real purpose) and allowed the player to move at normal speed, and just keep moving, then you would shave hours off the games runtime.
You are an excellent writer.
Regards,
A. Fellow, Weapon.
Thanks Matthew! Very kind of you. Cheers for watching.
I liked the gameplay of the remake (old ffvii more, but it's still fun), the graphics are great and it's great to see everybody looking... good. But everyones personality is off and the story is Nomura cringe. I never liked storys he was a part in, but now I'm a full hater. God, I hate this overly convoluted shit. I skipped the ending of remake because it was like watching a kid embarrass himself. Nothing is hidden anymore, except this stupid mistery around these stupid timelines. Even Clouds evil side is fully visible and everyone was okay with it, even Tifa.
I can't, I can't play it. I don't want to, other games have good gameplay too.
Believe it or not. I actually do have a friend who didn't know about anything about the original FF7. Yes, including Aerith's fate. He only knew the cultural influence this game has, and how it is one of legacy games out there. He was fairly excited to play remake years ago because the reasons why he does not want to play the original is because of the outdated graphics, and not liking turn-based combat. Remake was supposed to be, or rather, advertised to be exactly what he wanted.
*Sigh those were innocent years
Setting all of the far more valid, meaningful points of criticism aside - two of my most egregious issues with the remake are the non-stop anime mouth sounds and those obnoxious eye spasms the characters undergo every couple seconds each cutscene to emphasize their emotional state.
It's so incredibly aggravating to me to watch these bishie freaks desperately try to get me to feel for them with these Pixar-ass baby eyes instead of showing me actually well-directed emotional scenes and trusting that the viewer will get the point that way.
It takes me out of the experience through its artificiality, it's manipulative, it's lazy and worst of all, it's insulting my intelligence.
I wish for as close to a 1:1 remake of a story. Go ahead and update graphics and mechanics, but that only part of the reason we love the originals. I probably wouldn't have replayed many of my favorite games as many times as I did if the stories weren't good.
Also, when the new one changes things, I as a fan of the original can't have a complete conversation with people who have only played the new one.
FF7 is my all time favorite game. Cliche but true.
I played it the year it came out when I was in high school. Named Tifa after my crush. This game was very meaningful to me.
I have come to the point where not only do I hate everything this game represents, as I see what it could have been to me if it WAS just a 1:1 remaster so I could play the game as it existed in my imagination-
But also I hate all the snot-nosed Crisis Core obsessed Zack/Zack shipper fanfic writers who never played the original game on PlayStation in the first place but somehow got what they wanted when they didn’t even care about the actual game in the first place.
But hey, can’t all we real fans look forward to Aeris and Zack both living, and then Zack shoving Cloud out of the way so he can become the REAL hero if the story as he always should have been?
The 'The Obsessive Hermit, sent me here