Good vid man love the Kisame and Kakuzu respect You kinda hoed Sasori though imo with the “frog song gg” using the reason you gave you could put Sage Jiraiya over almost any one including Hashirama. Plus I’m pretty sure Ma knew pain was even more dangerous than Sasori and she was still being stubborn. Pretty much every other take I think is solid though bro well done ✊🏽
I appreciate you! I think Jiraiya’s whole mission was to get intel tbh, so I don’t think he wanted to frog song them until he knew he had all of them, which he still failed to do. With Sasori, they’d all know how he’s a pretty hard counter to Jiraiya so I think it goes down that way. He definitely gets hoed though lmao I felt bad
It's so good that this video one of your best videos is not one of the gate kept ones. It's odd that despite this it has not enough views or thumbs up. I'm sure it will get there.
Nice takes, liked hearing your Kisame vs jiraiya in particular. I think sassori might survive the initial frog song. Like if he gets trapped jiraiya would destroy hiriko then be surprised there’s a body inside it. Then he has to make sure he destroys the core, or else sassori will reassemble. A jiraiya has no intel on the core. And sassori is pretty smart, so I think he could come up with a counter like stop hearing IF he can do that
Thank you so much! That’s a great point. It then just comes down to if the frog song would release once he thinks Sasori is dead or not. Also, if he puts him under frog song and destroys Hiruko, I think there’s a decent chance he sees Sasori’s “real” body and investigates further before ceasing the Frog Song
Yo sage this was a fire video also thank you for saying that absorbing sage justu will not kill kisame because a lot of people think absorbing sage justu will automatically kill you but the preda path absorbs multiple sage justu and it absorb Naruto out of sage mode. I also think most of your takes are good.
I predicted ud take the spot of swagkage ur making me feel more confident about this with each upload this was 🔥 what i like about your videos is that u explain it in a way that makes us feel like theyre actually fighting in the video which others dont do. Im glad u gave more credit to kakazu cuz i been saying a fight between him and jiraiya would be more closer than most ppp lile to think theyre actually pretty close atleast when jiraiyas in base imo. U tryna record jiraiya vs danzo this month?
I appreciate you bro! Yeah I think the storytelling element is something I really like from NCHammer, but I want to make sure I’m getting the scaling right at the same time haha. Let’s shoot for the second week of January
Food for thought: basing Jaraiya's durability off of Pein catching him off guard is kind've bogue. Swear he turned off sage mode and got caught from behind- pause- to lose his arm. He took a hit from a giant rhino, summon thru a steel wall, then shot the same rhino out. No one under Jaraiya's circumstances would've survived Pein. If anyone beat the 1st 3: Naruto turns off sage mode, Sasuke or Kakashi turn off their sharringan, fckn Neji turns off his fckn Byakugan, Pein is getting that arm and murking them. My sht went to another vid and you said people caught off guard have a lower durability...so there lol. Jaraiya has more than Gamabunta. When sht got real Jaraiya had his hands stuck together and Gamakichi had to hold sht down. Gamakichi had a shield too. We getting creative? I bet a shark bomb could be tanked by his shield, and while Kisime is tied with that, Jaraiya and Kisime lock eyes passing in slow mo. Lions mane to rip something off, frog song genjutsu, he could tag him and put him in the frog gut, water lazer splits him in half, oil flame to the face, or the same frog that trained Jaraiya and Naruto hops off and socks the sht outta Kisime. And Kisime doesn't know sht about sage chakra, so one good hit and Kisime and or Samehada attack to drain Jaraiya, and get turned into stone tryna heal Kisime. Frogs could over fill the giant water jutsu and force Jaraiya out, they could possibly throw him out, or he could just move em all to the frog gut and transport himself back. Give big dog a lil more credit.
Nice video and intresting too 💯 a couple things though, I'll try and keep this as short and concise as I can. 1. To give Hidan credit, he defeated Asuma in 1v1 outright. Shikamaru saved him and figured out the ritual. Now, remove Shikamaru from this fight and Asuma dies immediately after getting scorched. Hidan > Asuma. 2. Sage mode Jiriaya would blitz Kakuzu before he gets off diamond morph with jutsu like Needle Jizo. Beginning of shippuden Naruto blitzed him twice so speed clearly isnt his strong suit. Also, he can't move at all when diamond morph is active, leaving him open to jutsu like Dark Swamp and Summoning: Toad Mouth Bind.
Thank you! I appreciate the love 🙏🏼 Yeah I said Asuma would’ve beaten Hidan had he known anything about his abilities. My point was that Asuma scales over Hidan, but lost due to hax. Sage Jiraiya doesn’t have crazy speed feats tbh. It’s impossible to scale him above Kakashi in terms of speed, who Kakuzu reacted to. Also, even if Jiraiya does blitz, he can’t physically harm Kakuzu. So, even though Kakuzu can’t move the individual body part he’s using the diamond morph on, I don’t think it would matter. The needle jizo might not do anything to him either way. Even his base durability is crazy. He didn’t use diamond morph against Matatabi at all and survived way worse than Needle Jizo. But yeah I think Jiraiya’s jutsu arsenal gets him the W
I appreciate you! Next video is Kakashi joins the Akatsuki and the one after that is Kakashi vs Obito form by form. Gotta tell you, the thumbnail for Kakashi vs Obito is probably my best work haha
I don’t understand how Kakuzu gets so slighted these days I think he’s easily in the top half of the group only below Obito Nagato Itachi Orochimaru and Kisame. I think he’d give Kisame worlds of trouble.
Kakuzu’s speed is relative to Sage Mode Jiraiya’s? Absolutely not. Kakuzu doesn’t have any speed feats comparable to what Jiraiya displayed against Pain shortly after entering Sage Mode.
Thank you so much! Natsu from Fairy Tale? Idk bro I haven’t watched or read it. Depending on the versions of Naruto and Sasuke, they could solo the verse lmao
The high tiers in Fairy Tail scale to continental and while some have hax, pretty much all of their hax can be shrugged off by being significantly stronger than them. At best I'd say Natsu can box alive EMS Madara/Hashirama
@sageofthickcalves AP, the widest ranging ability I believe we saw was Irene rearranging the geography of a country. Continental may be a high ball, I say continental because Natsu was able to match Zeref after he got a huge amp and he was already far stronger than someone like Irene. Some people take Natsu's magic burning through time in his fight against Zeref to scale them to ridiculous levels, but it's no more than a single line said by Zeref in the fight so I have no clue what it actually means for Natsu's AP
@@sageofthickcalves agree kisame wins more so than not out of 10 Only queried cuz I find that overwhelming taijutsu or genjutsu and subletting attack is the only way to kill kisame... even stronger people who are ninjutsu based.would find him hard to beat. Hirudora only knocked him out haha!! Man's a beast
Another banger! Sage Jiraiya would live up to his name until Kisame or Itachi. Can you make Indra and Ashura run the gauntlet between the Akatsuki or SOSP characters
@@sageofthickcalves Honestly, the only reason I suggested Akatsuki was because I want to hear you break down why Indra with his base MS would destroy Pain or Nagato with their Rinnegan lol
Great video! Surprised on how good it was! But things I disagreed with. 1 Hidan is not Asuma level, asuma needed help from shikamru to cut Hidans head off. if asuma didn’t have help he would have died a lot earlier. So Hidan scales imo a lot higher then asuma. 2 I don’t think jiriya beats kakazu, Deidara or sassori. I don’t want to write a book so I’ll leave it like that but if you want to talk about it we can but like I said great video. orchimaru was placed a little low tbh as well.
Thank you! - My argument was I don’t think if Asuma knew a kit Hidan’s abilities that he’d have much of an issue avoiding Hidan. Their scaling isn’t so far off that Hidan can just outright blitz him if Asuma is trying to dodge. - Yeah I think those three are debatable so I’m not mad at that. I lean toward Jiraiya due to his massive and potent arsenal, but I don’t think it’s definitive.
@sageofthickcalves... Very nice video here. But Imo, I'd try to be as brief as possible... We're analysing past-prime Jiraiya against these Akatsuki fighters that were currently in their own prime which tends to make the analysis abit uneven again... Hiruzen Sarutobi in his prime was the strongest of the five kages and an excellent teacher to fully train his students to the level where even prime Hanzo (Another beast of a fighter) was soo impressed at how skillful they all were that he rather gave them a title (generally feared in all of the land) in exchange for their lives... Amongst the three students, I dare say, sentiments aside, Jiraiya although as clumsy as ever is just like Naruto who was a late bloomer but turned out to be almost undefeatable in battle due to his high resilience... Could only have inherited this from Minato who happened to be a student of Prime Jiraiya who definitely must have instilled that into him which further improved Minato's battle capability... Naruto turned out at par with Genius Sasuke only because of plot ease... So at worst case, Jiraiya and Orochimaru would have ended same way due to same Intels known of each other and the multiple battles they've fought on same side and against each other... Remember they definitely must have been sparring partners which would have only further amplified them both... As for the Akatsuki, Prime Nagato had to wait until Hanzo was old and past his prime to make his move, same strategy Orochimaru used when he came up against Hiruzen, even though I still feel Hiruzen was still holding back due to sentiments until the very end when he became serious and we could see how much of a threat serious Hiruzen could be against any opposition even past his prime.. Using the above analogy for my comparison's, yes Hidan, Konan, Zetsu (white and black) lose to prime Jiraiya hands down. Deidara, sasori and kakuzu even though they also would loose to Jiraiya, their battle intellect would make the battle abit more challenging for the Sanin. Orochimaru and Jiraiya would only end in stalemate or maybe Pervy sage wins only due to slightly superior stamina (as whether we want to admit it or not, Jiraiya was extremely intelligent, battle capable, battle smart and easily holds the record for the highest number of completed A-ranked and S-ranked missions) That's why Minato and Nagato (even with the rennigan) were able to blossom to almost their full potentials under Jiraiya's mentorship... Jiraiya and Itachi would not happen as both would know that Itachi was a spy for konoha inside the Akatsuki... But if a battle was to happen, Jiraiya wins with very high difficulty due to his sage genjutsu... Jiraiya wins against Kisame as Itachi is definitely stronger than Kisame and Jiraiya could still pull off a win against a genius such as Itachi... kisame's battle feats are against; four tails of the forest (Jiraiya sparred with Naruto in four tails and was able to manage to subdue him even when he wasn't fighting to kill him... Same thing Orochimaru did also...That's how battle capable these two really are if they go all out in battle...).. Nagato only wins because Jiraiya is not aware of his 6-paths...( A statement Nagato himself said after their battle and when asked by Obito why he stayed soo long in battle to which Obito nodded in affirmation to how capable a fighter Jiraiya was even at that age)... Prime Jiraiya though wins this battle as he's more durable (better reflexes) due to him still being very young... Jiraiya vs Obito would go to Obito as he would be clearly underestimated by the prime Jiraiya (bad habits never die) and this would prove very fatal for the Pervy sage... But if for some miracle (which I do not see ever happening) prime Jiraiya goes all out from the beginning, then he defeats Obito as even his student, Minato proved to be slightly stronger during their Short confrontation.. ...
Love the video mostly on point. I have Amado levels of faith in Jiraiya, I Guess. Lol Jiraiya is definitely underrated here, I don’t remember you taking into account transparency jutsu, toad art of shadow subjugation, the requirements to turn someone into a frog like he did against the rain ninja, uses of sealing jutsu, Jiraiya’s slippery and tricking fighting style etc What is Kisame’s counter to toad mouth trap again? He was pretty screwed against base Jiraiya
I’m more of a narrative guy myself I take Itachi, Kisame, and Pain’s statements closer to face value as a way to discribe Jiraiya’s strengths with his limited combat interactions in the show He’s a rival for Itachi in combat He’s skilled enough to pull an unlikely dub against 6 path of pain with Intel And he slams Kisame no diff unless he absorbs all of Bee’s chakra beforehand
@@HC-gm4fo I can respect you leaning more toward the narrative than the feats, but I’m more of a feats guy. I also think Itachi would’ve had good reason to lie about Jiraiya being a match for him, being a Konoha spy and all. As far as Kisame’s counter for toad mouth trap, I’m convinced the super shark bomb should do it, or his hungry sharks could eat through it. I also think it was a very specific situation they were in during that encounter that allowed for that. I think Kisame getting Bee’s chakra just brought him back to baseline. We don’t see anything too crazy from him in his fight against Guy that time around that is totally unexpected from his previous showings, outside of fusing with samehada.
Great vid.. though i feel like with a couple of them you can make their own separate vs video and go in a lot more in depth like with kisame vs sage jiraya or orochimaru vs sage jiraiya. Also, do you think sage jiraya would be ablw to find a way to escape C4 from deidara? Or does deidara really only use that for a special occasion, he said he was saving that for Itachi
Thank you! Yeah I plan on doing a Kisame vs Jiraiya video eventually. I don’t think the fight goes far enough for c4 to come out. If it does, he’s probably screwed
@@sageofthickcalves cool ok, where would you rank sage jiraiya.. a little under high kage level? Sage Naruto is considered high kage level by many and stronger than sage jiraiya And where would you rank base jiraiya,low to mid kage level? Cause many people say hebi Sasuke is low kage level but would probably edge out base jiraiya though would be high difficulty for both sides
@@sageofthickcalves you talking base jiraiya or sage jiraiya? Cant wait for you to do the Sasuke vs Akatsuki gauntlet and Tsunade vs Akatsuki/orochimaru vs Akatsuki gauntlet videos
Amazing video! the only one i kinda disagree on is sasori. His unique body makes it unclear if genjutsu even works on him. Funny enough jiraiya is the one that explains genjutsu alters the targets brain. Not only does sasori not have ears he also doesnt have a conventional brain. We know that many of the other human senses sasori doesnt have and he seemingly doesnt need to look at his target to defend attacks from them as seen when he blocks kyuubi amped narutos attack with his tail.
I appreciate the love brother! It’s definitely weird because Sasori can hear, and the databook entry on Frog Song just says anyone who hears the song will succumb to the genjutsu. So for me, I think it should work
I agree with the verdict. I believe SM Jiraiya makes it then loses to FP Kisame extreme difficulty. But Itachi and Obito Genjutsu him and Pain..... well, we all know what happens then
@@sageofthickcalves he is. Two Sage toads are merged with him. No Genjutsu except Maybe Tsukiyomi works. And Tsukiyomi can easily be avoided by No eye contact which is easier for Sage mode users
@@SalmanulFarisi101 It doesn’t matter that two Sage Toads are merged with him. If, by “immune to genjutsu” you mean, “he’ll be broken out quickly”, you’re correct. However, there’s nothing showing or stating that he can’t be hit with genjutsu, immobilizing him temporarily. Even a single second of immobilization would be enough for Obito to beat him.
I think the super shark bomb absorbing chakra outright makes it narratively too powerful. If it did that, it would just beat everything else and Kisame would just beat everything outside of the rinnegan full stop. When in reality, Kisame was expecting a blast of just straight chakra from Guy, not a taijutsu that pushes air. If he was fighting somebody like Kakashi with a mud wall, the elemental counter to water, I think it'd be a different story and Jiraiya has earth style. The only thing to really beat an elemental difference in the show was Madara and at least that made sense because... Madara. I also think he probably wins against Itachi for two reasons. Tsukuyomi works via eye contact only and Jiraiya would know not to look at Itachi's eyes just as a default precaution. This is a guy that has been through several wars working with, and probably training, several Uchiha. Ephemeral works just with a finger but does not have the same time dilation that Tsukuyomi does, again narratively too powerful. So Ma and/or Pa would just break him out immediately. Not to mention Jiraiya could just fight with his eyes completely closed when in sage mode. That leaves Susanno'o for Jiraiya to deal with and I don't think Itachi is going to just NOT hear frog song while in the Susanno'o. It's also going to affect him because it got somebody with rinnegan. They don't just make you immune to genjutsu like some think. There's a reason Kisame thought he'd lose in part one, and while Itachi may have just been trying to avoid the fight, he probably knew he stood a good chance of dying too. Frog song is no joke when you don't have have somebody there, that isn't also affected, to break you out of it.
I think he wins against: Zetsu Konan Hidan low difficulty. Sasori Deidara Kakuzu and Kisame mid-high difficulty possibly Itachi but I’d edge Itachi because of Susanoo. Loses to Nagato and Obito. I think jiraiya and orochimaru stalemate
Question. How does Frog Song Work on Sasori? 1 He's a puppet. Never seen a puppet get his with Genjutsu. Also is he's in the Hiroku shell. The Sounds he hears will be slightly altered. So once again the song would fail.
He can still hear, so it would work on him. The description of frog song says you just have to be within earshot and as soon as you hear it you’ll be ensnared.
@sageofthickcalves Yes but don't you think since he starts off in the Shell that would distort the sound even off a little bit? I think Jiraiya Still wins, he just gotta smash the shell with a Sage Rasengan first.
@@CoffeeandCharacter shouldn’t really matter if the sound is a bit distorted because otherwise it being distorted in the pipes would’ve caused an issue against Pain
While I don’t disagree with the conclusion that Jiraiya wins I don’t really think sound genjutsu will work on Sasori at all. He doesn’t have eardrums, he doesn’t have cranial nerves either. We see directly into his body and it’s completely empty inside (he says himself that to create human puppets he removes all organs from the body) and the only organic part of him is just a lump of mystery meat. His senses aren’t something based in physicality at all, it’s like King crimson from Jojo “it just works”. Bath of boiling oil would be a better win con and at most Massive Sage rasengan should scale high enough to break through any iron sand defense (I’m of the opinion that Sage Jiraiya’s ninjutsu are generally the equivalent of Tsunade’s 100 healings taijutsu)
Jiraya vs itachi id give it to jiraya also firstly jiraya is not getting caught in tsukuyomi because jiraya would avoid his eyes in the first place because of regular sharingan genjutsu ,he already know about amaterasu and for susanoo he only needs to distance himself and summon and attack or underworld swap
I'm pretty sure Jiraiya looked Itachi dead in the eyes in part 1. You'd also need to give Jiraiya a big speed advantage over Itachi and Jiraiya hasn't once shown any speed feat to out him on Itachi's level let alone claim him as faster. Another thing is Itachi can simply force Jiraiya to look him in the eyes. Then there's the Yata Mirror which is stated to be able to repel anything be it physical or spiritual so the Yata Mirror might unironically be able to deflect Frog Song. Itachi has Jiraiya beat in almost every aspect, we see that from how effortlessly he deals with Orochimaru.
@@numberhunter62 orochimaru was being cocky that's why itachi beat him so easily.as for physical speed jiraya in sage mode is faster and way stronger than itachi.jiraya was looking down the hall surely not right into a genius uchiha eyes that have the world wide reputation to cast strong genjutsu if you look into their eyes not to mention jiraya live through generations of uchiha need I say more about the eyes thing.
@@numberhunter62 as for the susanoo just staying away from it is a great tactic so itachi wouldn't use susanoo at least not the larger form.Jiraya wins against alot of people because of his arsenal even itachi,while against pain he was at a major disadvantage not knowing there was more bodies if he did know he would have beat the other bodies except tendo .
I don’t know how you got away with saying that Kakazu scales to base Jiraiya in speed and physical prowess. Especially since there was one guy on here commenting about narrative. I’m completely baffled. But let’s clear it up. Base Naruto from start of shippuden and even up to the pain fight is not even base Sannin level even after rasenshurkien he still feels inferior to start of shippuden Sasuke from pre 6 month time skip. That same Naruto is rivaling Kakashi with the Rasenshuriken and weaker than kakashi without it. And this same Naruto who’s rivaling kakashi thinks that he’s inferior to again pre time skip shippuden Sasuke because he didn’t solo kakazu. This kakashi even in the pain arc after putting up a decent struggle against two paths of pain believes he’s still weaker than the Sannin. This Kakashi who in all honesty should edge Kakazu out still thinks he’s beneath Sannin level. But somehow Kakazu and base Jiraiya scale to each other ☠️
@@sageofthickcalves how about him combating no arms Orochimaru and in every cannon material him being relative to base Orochimaru that with him consistently being implied and stated to be above Kakashi, who with his Raikari definitely is above Kakazu in speed or at least his normal combat speed. However Kakashi still cucks to Jiraiya. I may not be as eloquent but I’ll link Six’s literal video on it. I definitely hear you on feats over statements but in this case it’s like every time this guy is shown he’s implied to destroy a planet and here you are like idk about that maybe he can destroy a town at best. And ofc I don’t think jiraiya is that strong I’m just using the hyperbole to demonstrate the gap in his actual narrative and even on screen portrayal and your own water downed portrayal. Which I think is just disingenuous.
@@yamamotogotbodied1606 Ok let’s follow this chain. What feats does Orochimaru have that put his speed above Kakuzu’s? Not narrative implications, since those are subjective. What actual speed feats does Orochimaru (the version of Orochimaru that Jiraiya is supposed to be relative to) have that put him definitively above Kakuzu?
@@sageofthickcalves how about a literal hours to days away from death Orochimaru on his sick bed reacting to completely new chidori variant from a heavy Sasuke post time skip, meaning he’s above that Kakashi and Naruto from the Kakazu fight, as Naruto envisions a weaker early Sasuke from the hideout encounter. Meaning it’s consistently illustrated even via feats that a Sannin even in their weakest state (as this Orochimaru gets slapped by the Oro who fights roofied Jiraiya from the Search For Tsunade arc), can slam characters stronger and faster than Kakazu.
Frog Song is the strongest genjutsu of the toads of Mount Myoboku, it's not "The Strongest Genjutsu". Obito literally controlled a dude for years without anyone ever being able to notice, and without a Jinchuriki being able to break him out of it. Tsukiyomi and Kotoamatsukami are both stronger Genjutsu, let alone the Infinite Tsukiyomi.
@@sageofthickcalves Merged Zetsu (Like the one that was in the Akatsuki) was able to hold off both Naruto and Sasuke at the end of the war. They also have access to Wood Release and all 5 Chakra nature's, plus Yin and Yang release.
@@sageofthickcalves Fused Zetsu (Like the one in the Akatsuki) was able to fend off a Naruto clone, and was only bisected by being caught off guard. He, again, has access to all 5 Chakra natures plus Yin and Yang release. Just him being able to hold off a KCM Naruto clone puts him above Jiraiya.
@sageofthickcalves Are Pain and Nagato on two different levels (Early Naruto sage mode and above KCM 1 respectively)? I'm rewatching the Pain arc right now, and seeing Kakashi keep up with Tendo, when Nagato was dealing with KCM 1 Naruto and version 2 Bee easily is really confusing.
@@i.q.1979 Yeah I think they should be two different levels in terms of scaling, but it’s not really clear tbh. There are people who argue sage mode Naruto > KCM1 Naruto
@@sageofthickcalves yea glad you showed jiraiya love in this video lol.. it seems every other creator disses him saying he's fodder/weak and he'd lose to every Akatsuki Besides hidan or konan. Some even saying hebi Sasuke edges out base jiraiya though would be a high difficulty fight for both
Itachi told Kisame that both of them would be killed if they took him on - was this just to protect Naruto and make them flee, when he entered the scene and used that “toad bind -stomach” jutsu - where both fleed. Was this just Itachi faking the strenght of Jiraya and his jutsu and playing down his own ability with his Susanoo and genjutsu + the strenghth of kisame? Itachi could use amaterasu directly on Jiraya. Would Jiraya have a counter for this - other than avoiding with speed of sage mode? Was Itachi statement saying “if we face him, we would be killer” totally fake and just to safe Naruto for being captured + not killing Jiraya?
@@CasperRiecke it really depends. I’d say it was probably a lie, but we also don’t know if he has the Totsuka Blade & Yata Mirror yet at this point, or how far his susano’o had developed. We also don’t know how strong Kisame is, in comparison to his shippuden self. So you could make a real argument for Jiraiya in part 1.
You overrated kisame by downplaying guy lol he didn’t tank a hirudora ( that was literally an air bomb being pushed under copious amounts of water against a giant water, bomb and steel incapacitated kisame, guy didn’t even intend to kill him since he needed to get information, plus he was not able to react to sixth guy where the hell do you get that from?
Only Matchups Jiraiya POTENTIALLY Loses is Itachi 🙌 Jiraiya would definitely beat Pain with info as stated. OM Obito has Nothing he can do to Jiraiya , so Jiraiya definitely Wins. Jiraiya tanks the Poison needles with Lion's Mane and Blitz Sasori with Massive Rasengan GG. Orochimaru cannot Predict frog song. Seriously , Others are not even Close.
@@sageofthickcalves Same Obito who Konan reacted to !? Same Konan who got Blitzed by Base Jiraiya !? Sage mode has extreme senses. Jiraiya is not getting Blitzed by someone who Danzo's Subordinates can react to. Also , Ma and Pa can use that time to Attack Obito because he have to materialise in order to Warp. Not to mention Jiraiya can effortlessly Escape from Kamui Dimension Via reverse Summon and is immune to Genjutsu. Seriously , Kisame is more of debate than OM Obito 🤷🏻
@@SalmanulFarisi101 Obito outright admits he took Konan too lightly and then blitzed her the moment he got serious. Using Konan ≈ Obito scaling is super disingenuous. Literally all Obito has to do is touch Jiraiya and it’s over.
@@sageofthickcalves let me say this first. I think you are not like Other youtubers who are extremely biased and Ignore to see the obvious narrative and Feats. I think you can open your eyes IF something is proven otherwise. Obito LITERALLY never Blitzed Konan. Obito at the start of the figh Legit says he thinks Konan has a plan and Let her Come. He didn't take her lightly , He was just too damn sure that he was Stronger which got demolished later. Obito backstabbed when Konan was out of Chakra. When he came back using izanagi. That's not Blitzing. That's just what Asura path did against Jiraiya. Those things are not called Blitzing. I never said Obito ~ Konan. I just said Obito is not THAT fast as you try to make him out to be. Especially not faster than a Already Kage lvl Shinobi using Sage mode. All Human path had to do was touch Jiraiya which he couldn't. What make you think Obito can ? And i already said Pulling him into Kamui dimension won't stop Jiraiya. So No , OM Obito definitely ain't beating Jiraiya
@@SalmanulFarisi101 Obito says he took her too lightly on page 14: www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10509000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-509 Page 14 Konan is attempting to take him down with her, page 15 he straight up perception blitzes her: www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10510000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-510 You could also make an argument he blitzes her on page 6 here, but that could also be argued for Konan allowing it to happen: www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10509000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-509 Either way, there’s at least one concrete blitz and one possible blitz, with the outright admission that Obito took her lightly. So again, scaling Obito to Konan is disingenuous. This is especially apparent when you consider that Obito reacts to V1 Ay, who’s KCM1 Naruto level in terms of speed: www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10467000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-467 I love Jiraiya, but he’s simply too slow to react to the Kamui warping (Minato states without his FTG he would’ve been done for), and he has no way to tag Obito without Frog Song, which takes set up time.
Kisame only backed off because of Itachi being a double agent. Kisame scales to stronger characters even without the use of his sword, and also scales above orochimaru.
He scales solidly above sannin even in base. He fought 7th gate guy without samehada and 7th gate guy would one shot every sannin except byakugo tsunade of course. Fused kisame would no diff every sannin imo.
@@aleclegault5729 It'd be a rough match up vs War Arc Tsunade since she was able to decently tank being stabbed by Madaras susano'o clone but kinda hard to say she'd be able to tag him, but Oro and Jiraiya lose to base Kisame without his sword
@@Frstypwngaming ofc tsunade has the raw power necessary to kill anyone who scales above her with a solid hit but like you said, I don’t see her tagging kisame, he should scale easily above her in speed and if she’s trapped in the bubble she’s dead . But I agree that she’s the strongest sannin with the seal and has the best shot against kisame.
lol. Pain, Tobi and Itachi are the only ones that can beat him, he no-diffs Kisame and kakuzu. The narrative shows this clearly. Kakuzu is Kakashi level hence why Kakashi fights him. You think shikimaru and co would dare go up against the sannin? lol. Then we have pain saying Jiraiya coulda beat him and specifically put it into the story that they only beat him cos he wasn’t aware of the secret, true or not. Then we have Itachi and Kisame run from Jiraiya and Kisame outright say he can’t beat Jiraiya. Then to top that, they didn’t go after Naruto specifically cos he was being protected by Jiraiya. Kishimoto would literally have to spell it out for you.
I def dont agree with the sasori win cons how would genjutsu even affect his puppet body sense sasori is technically just the heart and with kakazu i dont think gamabunta would have anything to hurt kakuzu if the 2 tails couldn't gama is running hands with the 1 tails and from what i remember he thought that was a challenge type shit
If you can hear you can be affected by frog song. I don’t think Gamabunta physically beats up Kakuzu. That wasn’t my argument. My argument is essentially that Jiraiya, Gamabunta, Ma, and Pa should be able to produce a powerful enough combination technique to put down Kakuzu.
@@sageofthickcalves see I think this is where you just get into how turning yourself into a puppet makes no sense the puppet body doesn't have like organs or a brain so id doubt it has ear drums sasori is just a heart in a box so really how the fuck is he seeing or hearing in the first same reason visual genjutsu shouldn't work those aren't actual eyes theres no brain or chakra system in the body and genjutsu affects the brain sure it gets there through hearing but what brain is it affecting how is sasori even able to think in the first place. With them teaming up it really depends on how there destructive capabilities scale and I don't remember ma or pa pulling out anything that does any crazy damage and I don't think even jiriya with gama combo jutsu would have the same power as something from the 2 tails the taild beast thats main power is fire
@@sageofthickcalves I mean yeah can assume that I guess but I mean really just don't know and again while he can hear what brain is it affecting there is no way to argue it working without making big assumptions about how the puppet body works and because of that I really don't see it fair as a win con mostly as the only win con you bring up cause it's again really arguable cause we just don't get how the body works if you ever re run that fight I would put that under a possible outcome I really wouldn't use it to say jiriya could and would be able to do that as his main win con as it's really arguable
@@whoknows8587 It doesn’t say anything about the brain in the jutsu description. It does say essentially that if you can hear it then you’re done. Here’s what it says verbatim: “Those who hear it are drawn into a genjutsu world where their minds are paralyzed.” The only stipulation for genjutu to work is that there’s a condition that is met for disrupting the opponent’s chakra. For sharingan genjutsu, it’s generally eye contact (injecting chakra into the eyes), some genjutsu only requires a touch, point, or hand sign. The condition that has to be met for this is that the opponent hears it. Since Sasori can hear for sure, he’s vulnerable to it. There’s nothing stated about physiology, so there’s no reason to assume it wouldn’t work on Sasori.
He can’t reflect ANY genjutsu, just genjutu of a certain caliber. She sharingan and it’s evolutions give the user innate genjutsu resistance, but I doubt he’d be able to resist the most powerful one
Jiraya is not losing to kisame come on man jiraya summons frogs for crying out loud and hes in sage mode.jiraya lost his arm by a surprise attack meaning he didnt do anything to protect his arm.
@@sageofthickcalves what are talking about bro;frogs under water ,oil, two of the most powerful summons ever which have wind and water style jutsu I'm sure they can manipulate 💧. Also jiraya has earth style, he just needs to get to the ground if he's not already there use a earth dome or just go underground to escape.Jiraya has so many...many...many ways to escape the water sphere
For me: 1. Obito 2. Pain 3. Itachi ----------------- 4. Kisame Jiraiya here 5. Sasori 6.Kakuzu 7. Deidara 8. Konan 9. Hidan Jiraiya stomps Hidan and Konan hard, he should beat Deidara with low difficulty (but his suicide explosion can be tricky), he should win against Kakuzu but it wouldn't be that easy for him, he can win against Sasori but poison would be a massive threat for him and he wouldn't be able to afford to even get scratched by anything, he may beat base Kisame... but he stops at fused Kisame. He gets stomped by Itachi, Pain and Obito, that much should be obvious.
Jiraya didnt beat konan sage Orochimaru is not beating sage mode jiraya 😂😂😂 hydra form is weak asf,don't order ma and pa is the strongest summons in naruto so far they would dice up that lame hydra form with water.
Jiraiya 100% beat Konan. Orochimaru and Jiraiya are relative in base, but the hydra is stated to be the strongest and largest of all the snakes. It also has crazy regeneration, so even if ma and pa dice it up it’ll just heal. Jiraiya genuinely doesn’t have anything that can put Orochimaru down in that state.
You see, this would be so Goated, if you didn’t follow the Hidan fodder agenda 🦐, Hidan would go god mode, build a nether portal, destroy the ender dragon, Partake in a dinner date with Tony Soprano, and Come back, and shoot Jiraiya with a .357 magnum.
Well I have both Itachi and Kisame winning in this video. Also, the reason I said 4/10 difficulty for Itachi is because he’d have to use his MS and his MS abilities are straining on him.
@@yl1614 I don’t think he was really showing signs of fatigue at that point. Plus, because of Ma and Pa, he had a continuous flow of sage energy flowing into him so he shouldn’t be getting fatigued at that point
Any fight with Jiriaya and any of the Akatsuki would be legendary!
💯💯💯
Bro when’s yalls next video?
@@johnmilo7629 we’ll cook something up soon
@@sageofthickcalves Hell yeah I feel yall are like the second Swag and Six 💯
@@johnmilo7629 ayeee I appreciate that
Best Naruto channel in the game
I appreciate you! 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Lowkey rly is
@@Gingallion_Stallion you guys are the best
Straight facts
Good vid man love the Kisame and Kakuzu respect
You kinda hoed Sasori though imo with the “frog song gg” using the reason you gave you could put Sage Jiraiya over almost any one including Hashirama. Plus I’m pretty sure Ma knew pain was even more dangerous than Sasori and she was still being stubborn.
Pretty much every other take I think is solid though bro well done ✊🏽
I appreciate you! I think Jiraiya’s whole mission was to get intel tbh, so I don’t think he wanted to frog song them until he knew he had all of them, which he still failed to do. With Sasori, they’d all know how he’s a pretty hard counter to Jiraiya so I think it goes down that way. He definitely gets hoed though lmao I felt bad
Fun video. Jiraiya being one of my favorite characters in Naruto, I always hated that he was shown weaker than Orochimaru. Burns me to this day.
Same bro
It's so good that this video one of your best videos is not one of the gate kept ones. It's odd that despite this it has not enough views or thumbs up. I'm sure it will get there.
Thanks! Yeah it came out when I had a smaller channel so the views weren’t that great at the time
Nice takes, liked hearing your Kisame vs jiraiya in particular.
I think sassori might survive the initial frog song. Like if he gets trapped jiraiya would destroy hiriko then be surprised there’s a body inside it. Then he has to make sure he destroys the core, or else sassori will reassemble. A jiraiya has no intel on the core. And sassori is pretty smart, so I think he could come up with a counter like stop hearing IF he can do that
Thank you so much! That’s a great point. It then just comes down to if the frog song would release once he thinks Sasori is dead or not. Also, if he puts him under frog song and destroys Hiruko, I think there’s a decent chance he sees Sasori’s “real” body and investigates further before ceasing the Frog Song
Yo sage this was a fire video also thank you for saying that absorbing sage justu will not kill kisame because a lot of people think absorbing sage justu will automatically kill you but the preda path absorbs multiple sage justu and it absorb Naruto out of sage mode. I also think most of your takes are good.
Thank you! Yeah you were spot on with the sage energy stuff 🤙🏼
Another fire upload
Always good to see you on here my dude 🙏🏼
Besides My issues with the Sasori Fight. This is the first time I've seen someone not overhyping Jiraiya. Keep up the amazing work
I appreciate you bro! Yeah I knew the Sasori one would be controversial. It’s just genuinely how I see it going because of Jiraiya’s intel.
I predicted ud take the spot of swagkage ur making me feel more confident about this with each upload this was 🔥 what i like about your videos is that u explain it in a way that makes us feel like theyre actually fighting in the video which others dont do. Im glad u gave more credit to kakazu cuz i been saying a fight between him and jiraiya would be more closer than most ppp lile to think theyre actually pretty close atleast when jiraiyas in base imo. U tryna record jiraiya vs danzo this month?
I appreciate you bro! Yeah I think the storytelling element is something I really like from NCHammer, but I want to make sure I’m getting the scaling right at the same time haha. Let’s shoot for the second week of January
Food for thought: basing Jaraiya's durability off of Pein catching him off guard is kind've bogue. Swear he turned off sage mode and got caught from behind- pause- to lose his arm. He took a hit from a giant rhino, summon thru a steel wall, then shot the same rhino out.
No one under Jaraiya's circumstances would've survived Pein. If anyone beat the 1st 3: Naruto turns off sage mode, Sasuke or Kakashi turn off their sharringan, fckn Neji turns off his fckn Byakugan, Pein is getting that arm and murking them. My sht went to another vid and you said people caught off guard have a lower durability...so there lol.
Jaraiya has more than Gamabunta. When sht got real Jaraiya had his hands stuck together and Gamakichi had to hold sht down. Gamakichi had a shield too. We getting creative? I bet a shark bomb could be tanked by his shield, and while Kisime is tied with that, Jaraiya and Kisime lock eyes passing in slow mo. Lions mane to rip something off, frog song genjutsu, he could tag him and put him in the frog gut, water lazer splits him in half, oil flame to the face, or the same frog that trained Jaraiya and Naruto hops off and socks the sht outta Kisime. And Kisime doesn't know sht about sage chakra, so one good hit and Kisime and or Samehada attack to drain Jaraiya, and get turned into stone tryna heal Kisime.
Frogs could over fill the giant water jutsu and force Jaraiya out, they could possibly throw him out, or he could just move em all to the frog gut and transport himself back. Give big dog a lil more credit.
Didn’t I already reply to this exact comment on another post?
@@sageofthickcalves lol nah, I messed up and shared it on there tho.
@@JuiceManDavis oh gotcha lol
Nice video and intresting too 💯 a couple things though, I'll try and keep this as short and concise as I can.
1. To give Hidan credit, he defeated Asuma in 1v1 outright. Shikamaru saved him and figured out the ritual. Now, remove Shikamaru from this fight and Asuma dies immediately after getting scorched. Hidan > Asuma.
2. Sage mode Jiriaya would blitz Kakuzu before he gets off diamond morph with jutsu like Needle Jizo. Beginning of shippuden Naruto blitzed him twice so speed clearly isnt his strong suit. Also, he can't move at all when diamond morph is active, leaving him open to jutsu like Dark Swamp and Summoning: Toad Mouth Bind.
Thank you! I appreciate the love 🙏🏼
Yeah I said Asuma would’ve beaten Hidan had he known anything about his abilities. My point was that Asuma scales over Hidan, but lost due to hax.
Sage Jiraiya doesn’t have crazy speed feats tbh. It’s impossible to scale him above Kakashi in terms of speed, who Kakuzu reacted to. Also, even if Jiraiya does blitz, he can’t physically harm Kakuzu. So, even though Kakuzu can’t move the individual body part he’s using the diamond morph on, I don’t think it would matter. The needle jizo might not do anything to him either way. Even his base durability is crazy. He didn’t use diamond morph against Matatabi at all and survived way worse than Needle Jizo. But yeah I think Jiraiya’s jutsu arsenal gets him the W
I know I wanted the kakashi one first but this video was 🔥
I appreciate you! Next video is Kakashi joins the Akatsuki and the one after that is Kakashi vs Obito form by form. Gotta tell you, the thumbnail for Kakashi vs Obito is probably my best work haha
once deidara uses those microscopic clay bombs, it’s GG
I had him fight Hidan, Sasori, and Kisame in my fanfiction's recent chapters. So this feels very relevant for me. lol
Love that!
@@sageofthickcalves Thanks, buddy!
You should upload them
I don’t understand how Kakuzu gets so slighted these days I think he’s easily in the top half of the group only below Obito Nagato Itachi Orochimaru and Kisame. I think he’d give Kisame worlds of trouble.
Kakuzu’s speed is relative to Sage Mode Jiraiya’s? Absolutely not. Kakuzu doesn’t have any speed feats comparable to what Jiraiya displayed against Pain shortly after entering Sage Mode.
Love the video although i do be diagreeing with so point you make but please continue to post sage i appreciate the entertainment 🙏
i love that you were unbiased the whole time. 10/10 video.
can we get a how far does natsu get in naruto??
how far naruto or sasuke get in one piece.
Thank you so much!
Natsu from Fairy Tale? Idk bro I haven’t watched or read it.
Depending on the versions of Naruto and Sasuke, they could solo the verse lmao
The high tiers in Fairy Tail scale to continental and while some have hax, pretty much all of their hax can be shrugged off by being significantly stronger than them. At best I'd say Natsu can box alive EMS Madara/Hashirama
@@matthewclark1857 continental AP or DC?
@@sageofthickcalves hells paradise gabimaru?? or how far does naruto or sasuke get in bleach or yu yu hakusho
@sageofthickcalves AP, the widest ranging ability I believe we saw was Irene rearranging the geography of a country. Continental may be a high ball, I say continental because Natsu was able to match Zeref after he got a huge amp and he was already far stronger than someone like Irene. Some people take Natsu's magic burning through time in his fight against Zeref to scale them to ridiculous levels, but it's no more than a single line said by Zeref in the fight so I have no clue what it actually means for Natsu's AP
I agree on all matches and you even clarified win/lose against sasori... Great vid!!
But why no frog song against kisame??
Thank you so much! Honestly, I don’t think he’d use it early enough for it to matter
@@sageofthickcalves agree kisame wins more so than not out of 10
Only queried cuz I find that overwhelming taijutsu or genjutsu and subletting attack is the only way to kill kisame... even stronger people who are ninjutsu based.would find him hard to beat.
Hirudora only knocked him out haha!! Man's a beast
Another banger! Sage Jiraiya would live up to his name until Kisame or Itachi. Can you make Indra and Ashura run the gauntlet between the Akatsuki or SOSP characters
Thank you! 🙏🏼 Indra and Ashura would slam the Akatsuki, but yeah a six paths gauntlet would go crazy
@@sageofthickcalves Honestly, the only reason I suggested Akatsuki was because I want to hear you break down why Indra with his base MS would destroy Pain or Nagato with their Rinnegan lol
Big fan man, you should definitely do Gengetsu hozuki vs MU or a gokage vs akatsuki
Classic SOTC dub 👊🏼👊🏼 character interpretations on how they would most likely play the scenarios are clean and accurate 💪🏼💪🏼
Always appreciate the love bro! 🙏🏼
Great video! Surprised on how good it was! But things I disagreed with.
1 Hidan is not Asuma level, asuma needed help from shikamru to cut Hidans head off. if asuma didn’t have help he would have died a lot earlier. So Hidan scales imo a lot higher then asuma.
2 I don’t think jiriya beats kakazu, Deidara or sassori. I don’t want to write a book so I’ll leave it like that but if you want to talk about it we can but like I said great video. orchimaru was placed a little low tbh as well.
Thank you!
- My argument was I don’t think if Asuma knew a kit Hidan’s abilities that he’d have much of an issue avoiding Hidan. Their scaling isn’t so far off that Hidan can just outright blitz him if Asuma is trying to dodge.
- Yeah I think those three are debatable so I’m not mad at that. I lean toward Jiraiya due to his massive and potent arsenal, but I don’t think it’s definitive.
@sageofthickcalves... Very nice video here. But Imo, I'd try to be as brief as possible...
We're analysing past-prime Jiraiya against these Akatsuki fighters that were currently in their own prime which tends to make the analysis abit uneven again...
Hiruzen Sarutobi in his prime was the strongest of the five kages and an excellent teacher to fully train his students to the level where even prime Hanzo (Another beast of a fighter) was soo impressed at how skillful they all were that he rather gave them a title (generally feared in all of the land) in exchange for their lives...
Amongst the three students, I dare say, sentiments aside, Jiraiya although as clumsy as ever is just like Naruto who was a late bloomer but turned out to be almost undefeatable in battle due to his high resilience... Could only have inherited this from Minato who happened to be a student of Prime Jiraiya who definitely must have instilled that into him which further improved Minato's battle capability...
Naruto turned out at par with Genius Sasuke only because of plot ease... So at worst case, Jiraiya and Orochimaru would have ended same way due to same Intels known of each other and the multiple battles they've fought on same side and against each other... Remember they definitely must have been sparring partners which would have only further amplified them both...
As for the Akatsuki, Prime Nagato had to wait until Hanzo was old and past his prime to make his move, same strategy Orochimaru used when he came up against Hiruzen, even though I still feel Hiruzen was still holding back due to sentiments until the very end when he became serious and we could see how much of a threat serious Hiruzen could be against any opposition even past his prime..
Using the above analogy for my comparison's, yes
Hidan, Konan, Zetsu (white and black) lose to prime Jiraiya hands down.
Deidara, sasori and kakuzu even though they also would loose to Jiraiya, their battle intellect would make the battle abit more challenging for the Sanin.
Orochimaru and Jiraiya would only end in stalemate or maybe Pervy sage wins only due to slightly superior stamina (as whether we want to admit it or not, Jiraiya was extremely intelligent, battle capable, battle smart and easily holds the record for the highest number of completed A-ranked and S-ranked missions) That's why Minato and Nagato (even with the rennigan) were able to blossom to almost their full potentials under Jiraiya's mentorship...
Jiraiya and Itachi would not happen as both would know that Itachi was a spy for konoha inside the Akatsuki... But if a battle was to happen, Jiraiya wins with very high difficulty due to his sage genjutsu...
Jiraiya wins against Kisame as Itachi is definitely stronger than Kisame and Jiraiya could still pull off a win against a genius such as Itachi... kisame's battle feats are against; four tails of the forest (Jiraiya sparred with Naruto in four tails and was able to manage to subdue him even when he wasn't fighting to kill him... Same thing Orochimaru did also...That's how battle capable these two really are if they go all out in battle...)..
Nagato only wins because Jiraiya is not aware of his 6-paths...( A statement Nagato himself said after their battle and when asked by Obito why he stayed soo long in battle to which Obito nodded in affirmation to how capable a fighter Jiraiya was even at that age)... Prime Jiraiya though wins this battle as he's more durable (better reflexes) due to him still being very young...
Jiraiya vs Obito would go to Obito as he would be clearly underestimated by the prime Jiraiya (bad habits never die) and this would prove very fatal for the Pervy sage... But if for some miracle (which I do not see ever happening) prime Jiraiya goes all out from the beginning, then he defeats Obito as even his student, Minato proved to be slightly stronger during their Short confrontation.. ...
This is peak
YOU are peak 🙏🏼
@@sageofthickcalves keep up the great work man
[Good Naruto scaling]
I sub 🤷
Thank you so much! Hope to see you on here more in the future 🫡
Love the video mostly on point.
I have Amado levels of faith in Jiraiya, I Guess. Lol
Jiraiya is definitely underrated here, I don’t remember you taking into account transparency jutsu, toad art of shadow subjugation, the requirements to turn someone into a frog like he did against the rain ninja, uses of sealing jutsu, Jiraiya’s slippery and tricking fighting style etc
What is Kisame’s counter to toad mouth trap again?
He was pretty screwed against base Jiraiya
I’m more of a narrative guy myself
I take Itachi, Kisame, and Pain’s statements closer to face value as a way to discribe Jiraiya’s strengths with his limited combat interactions in the show
He’s a rival for Itachi in combat
He’s skilled enough to pull an unlikely dub against 6 path of pain with Intel
And he slams Kisame no diff unless he absorbs all of Bee’s chakra beforehand
@@HC-gm4fo I can respect you leaning more toward the narrative than the feats, but I’m more of a feats guy. I also think Itachi would’ve had good reason to lie about Jiraiya being a match for him, being a Konoha spy and all.
As far as Kisame’s counter for toad mouth trap, I’m convinced the super shark bomb should do it, or his hungry sharks could eat through it. I also think it was a very specific situation they were in during that encounter that allowed for that.
I think Kisame getting Bee’s chakra just brought him back to baseline. We don’t see anything too crazy from him in his fight against Guy that time around that is totally unexpected from his previous showings, outside of fusing with samehada.
Good video 💯 this was 🔥 my nigga
Thank you! Wanted to do sage Jiraiya justice
Great vid.. though i feel like with a couple of them you can make their own separate vs video and go in a lot more in depth like with kisame vs sage jiraya or orochimaru vs sage jiraiya.
Also, do you think sage jiraya would be ablw to find a way to escape C4 from deidara? Or does deidara really only use that for a special occasion, he said he was saving that for Itachi
Thank you! Yeah I plan on doing a Kisame vs Jiraiya video eventually.
I don’t think the fight goes far enough for c4 to come out. If it does, he’s probably screwed
@@sageofthickcalves cool ok, where would you rank sage jiraiya.. a little under high kage level? Sage Naruto is considered high kage level by many and stronger than sage jiraiya
And where would you rank base jiraiya,low to mid kage level? Cause many people say hebi Sasuke is low kage level but would probably edge out base jiraiya though would be high difficulty for both sides
@@oscarperez5539 yeah I’d have Jiraiya around mid-kage level. Probably beats up Mei and Gaara, but loses to Tsunade, Ay, and Onoki
@@sageofthickcalves you talking base jiraiya or sage jiraiya?
Cant wait for you to do the Sasuke vs Akatsuki gauntlet and Tsunade vs Akatsuki/orochimaru vs Akatsuki gauntlet videos
@@oscarperez5539 I think if Jiraiya starts in sage mode he probably takes Onoki too, but still loses to Tsunade and Ay
Not gonna lie, I’d be curious to see how Danzo would fare in an Akatsuki gauntlet.
✍️
itachi would call dibs on first hit and torture him for 200 years in tsukuyomi
I thought sasori couldn’t be put under genjutsu because of his body?
He can still hear and he has chakra so he can be put under genjutsu
Amazing video! the only one i kinda disagree on is sasori. His unique body makes it unclear if genjutsu even works on him. Funny enough jiraiya is the one that explains genjutsu alters the targets brain. Not only does sasori not have ears he also doesnt have a conventional brain. We know that many of the other human senses sasori doesnt have and he seemingly doesnt need to look at his target to defend attacks from them as seen when he blocks kyuubi amped narutos attack with his tail.
I appreciate the love brother! It’s definitely weird because Sasori can hear, and the databook entry on Frog Song just says anyone who hears the song will succumb to the genjutsu. So for me, I think it should work
I agree with the verdict. I believe SM Jiraiya makes it then loses to FP Kisame extreme difficulty.
But Itachi and Obito Genjutsu him and Pain..... well, we all know what happens then
🎯
Jiraiya is immune to Genjutsu
@@SalmanulFarisi101 no he’s not
@@sageofthickcalves he is.
Two Sage toads are merged with him. No Genjutsu except Maybe Tsukiyomi works.
And Tsukiyomi can easily be avoided by No eye contact which is easier for Sage mode users
@@SalmanulFarisi101 It doesn’t matter that two Sage Toads are merged with him. If, by “immune to genjutsu” you mean, “he’ll be broken out quickly”, you’re correct. However, there’s nothing showing or stating that he can’t be hit with genjutsu, immobilizing him temporarily. Even a single second of immobilization would be enough for Obito to beat him.
I'm surprised he got so far neat
Yeah I figured he’d stop at Deidara until I re-read their fights
I think the super shark bomb absorbing chakra outright makes it narratively too powerful. If it did that, it would just beat everything else and Kisame would just beat everything outside of the rinnegan full stop. When in reality, Kisame was expecting a blast of just straight chakra from Guy, not a taijutsu that pushes air. If he was fighting somebody like Kakashi with a mud wall, the elemental counter to water, I think it'd be a different story and Jiraiya has earth style. The only thing to really beat an elemental difference in the show was Madara and at least that made sense because... Madara.
I also think he probably wins against Itachi for two reasons. Tsukuyomi works via eye contact only and Jiraiya would know not to look at Itachi's eyes just as a default precaution. This is a guy that has been through several wars working with, and probably training, several Uchiha. Ephemeral works just with a finger but does not have the same time dilation that Tsukuyomi does, again narratively too powerful. So Ma and/or Pa would just break him out immediately. Not to mention Jiraiya could just fight with his eyes completely closed when in sage mode. That leaves Susanno'o for Jiraiya to deal with and I don't think Itachi is going to just NOT hear frog song while in the Susanno'o. It's also going to affect him because it got somebody with rinnegan. They don't just make you immune to genjutsu like some think.
There's a reason Kisame thought he'd lose in part one, and while Itachi may have just been trying to avoid the fight, he probably knew he stood a good chance of dying too. Frog song is no joke when you don't have have somebody there, that isn't also affected, to break you out of it.
2:43 hidan landed a hit on him while he had help and on the other hand asuma from a sneak attack was getting reacted to wtf
In my opinion jiraya loses only to pain and obito
I mean I think Itachi takes it for sure, but I can see why it’s contentious
I think he wins against:
Zetsu Konan Hidan low difficulty. Sasori Deidara Kakuzu and Kisame mid-high difficulty possibly Itachi but I’d edge Itachi because of Susanoo. Loses to Nagato and Obito. I think jiraiya and orochimaru stalemate
The shark bomb absorbs chakra? Don’t remember that
It “eats” the chakra and uses it to increase its own power
Question. How does Frog Song Work on Sasori? 1 He's a puppet. Never seen a puppet get his with Genjutsu. Also is he's in the Hiroku shell. The Sounds he hears will be slightly altered. So once again the song would fail.
He can still hear, so it would work on him. The description of frog song says you just have to be within earshot and as soon as you hear it you’ll be ensnared.
@sageofthickcalves Yes but don't you think since he starts off in the Shell that would distort the sound even off a little bit? I think Jiraiya Still wins, he just gotta smash the shell with a Sage Rasengan first.
@@CoffeeandCharacter shouldn’t really matter if the sound is a bit distorted because otherwise it being distorted in the pipes would’ve caused an issue against Pain
While I don’t disagree with the conclusion that Jiraiya wins I don’t really think sound genjutsu will work on Sasori at all. He doesn’t have eardrums, he doesn’t have cranial nerves either. We see directly into his body and it’s completely empty inside (he says himself that to create human puppets he removes all organs from the body) and the only organic part of him is just a lump of mystery meat. His senses aren’t something based in physicality at all, it’s like King crimson from Jojo “it just works”. Bath of boiling oil would be a better win con and at most Massive Sage rasengan should scale high enough to break through any iron sand defense (I’m of the opinion that Sage Jiraiya’s ninjutsu are generally the equivalent of Tsunade’s 100 healings taijutsu)
Well he can hear and he has chakra so I don’t see why not
Jiraya vs itachi id give it to jiraya also firstly jiraya is not getting caught in tsukuyomi because jiraya would avoid his eyes in the first place because of regular sharingan genjutsu ,he already know about amaterasu and for susanoo he only needs to distance himself and summon and attack or underworld swap
I'm pretty sure Jiraiya looked Itachi dead in the eyes in part 1. You'd also need to give Jiraiya a big speed advantage over Itachi and Jiraiya hasn't once shown any speed feat to out him on Itachi's level let alone claim him as faster. Another thing is Itachi can simply force Jiraiya to look him in the eyes.
Then there's the Yata Mirror which is stated to be able to repel anything be it physical or spiritual so the Yata Mirror might unironically be able to deflect Frog Song.
Itachi has Jiraiya beat in almost every aspect, we see that from how effortlessly he deals with Orochimaru.
Totsuka Blade gg
@@sageofthickcalves swamp of the underworld>susanoo
@@numberhunter62 orochimaru was being cocky that's why itachi beat him so easily.as for physical speed jiraya in sage mode is faster and way stronger than itachi.jiraya was looking down the hall surely not right into a genius uchiha eyes that have the world wide reputation to cast strong genjutsu if you look into their eyes not to mention jiraya live through generations of uchiha need I say more about the eyes thing.
@@numberhunter62 as for the susanoo just staying away from it is a great tactic so itachi wouldn't use susanoo at least not the larger form.Jiraya wins against alot of people because of his arsenal even itachi,while against pain he was at a major disadvantage not knowing there was more bodies if he did know he would have beat the other bodies except tendo .
Wow, you underestimated jiraya so much
I think jaraiya seal Sage hydra Orochimaru being closer to the snake animal than Sage mode
Why are you assuming Jiraiya would look into Itachis eyes to get caught in tsukuyomi? He certainly has intel on the sharingan and its genjitsu prowess
I just said it’s possible
Oh and by the way what the pretha path absorbed that turned it into stone was nature energy
Not Sage chakra
There’s a difference
100%, but we know nature energy is a key component in sage chakra, so there’s should still be a threshold for how much sage chakra can be absorbed
@@sageofthickcalves
True..
Kisame definitely meets the threshold tho since I’d guess jiraiya has less of it than naruto did
ALL FAX
No printer 🔥
I don’t know how you got away with saying that Kakazu scales to base Jiraiya in speed and physical prowess. Especially since there was one guy on here commenting about narrative. I’m completely baffled. But let’s clear it up. Base Naruto from start of shippuden and even up to the pain fight is not even base Sannin level even after rasenshurkien he still feels inferior to start of shippuden Sasuke from pre 6 month time skip. That same Naruto is rivaling Kakashi with the Rasenshuriken and weaker than kakashi without it. And this same Naruto who’s rivaling kakashi thinks that he’s inferior to again pre time skip shippuden Sasuke because he didn’t solo kakazu. This kakashi even in the pain arc after putting up a decent struggle against two paths of pain believes he’s still weaker than the Sannin. This Kakashi who in all honesty should edge Kakazu out still thinks he’s beneath Sannin level. But somehow Kakazu and base Jiraiya scale to each other ☠️
Jiraiya doesn’t have good speed scaling in base. You got a feat that puts him in base above Kakuzu in speed?
@@sageofthickcalves how about him combating no arms Orochimaru and in every cannon material him being relative to base Orochimaru that with him consistently being implied and stated to be above Kakashi, who with his Raikari definitely is above Kakazu in speed or at least his normal combat speed. However Kakashi still cucks to Jiraiya. I may not be as eloquent but I’ll link Six’s literal video on it. I definitely hear you on feats over statements but in this case it’s like every time this guy is shown he’s implied to destroy a planet and here you are like idk about that maybe he can destroy a town at best. And ofc I don’t think jiraiya is that strong I’m just using the hyperbole to demonstrate the gap in his actual narrative and even on screen portrayal and your own water downed portrayal. Which I think is just disingenuous.
@@yamamotogotbodied1606 Ok let’s follow this chain. What feats does Orochimaru have that put his speed above Kakuzu’s? Not narrative implications, since those are subjective. What actual speed feats does Orochimaru (the version of Orochimaru that Jiraiya is supposed to be relative to) have that put him definitively above Kakuzu?
@@sageofthickcalves how about a literal hours to days away from death Orochimaru on his sick bed reacting to completely new chidori variant from a heavy Sasuke post time skip, meaning he’s above that Kakashi and Naruto from the Kakazu fight, as Naruto envisions a weaker early Sasuke from the hideout encounter. Meaning it’s consistently illustrated even via feats that a Sannin even in their weakest state (as this Orochimaru gets slapped by the Oro who fights roofied Jiraiya from the Search For Tsunade arc), can slam characters stronger and faster than Kakazu.
@@sageofthickcalves you definitely had me on the ropes for a second I legit had to go looking for a feat lol
Frog Song is the strongest genjutsu of the toads of Mount Myoboku, it's not "The Strongest Genjutsu". Obito literally controlled a dude for years without anyone ever being able to notice, and without a Jinchuriki being able to break him out of it. Tsukiyomi and Kotoamatsukami are both stronger Genjutsu, let alone the Infinite Tsukiyomi.
No way. Zetsu (War Arc at least) would absolutely murder Sage Mode Jiraiya. Jiraiya just does not scale to the War Arc
Zetsu in the war arc scales to Neji dawg
@@sageofthickcalves Merged Zetsu (Like the one that was in the Akatsuki) was able to hold off both Naruto and Sasuke at the end of the war. They also have access to Wood Release and all 5 Chakra nature's, plus Yin and Yang release.
@@Frstypwngaming Zetsu is only strong when bound to a host
@@sageofthickcalves Fused Zetsu (Like the one in the Akatsuki) was able to fend off a Naruto clone, and was only bisected by being caught off guard. He, again, has access to all 5 Chakra natures plus Yin and Yang release. Just him being able to hold off a KCM Naruto clone puts him above Jiraiya.
@@Frstypwngaming what chapter are you referring to?
Nah c3 one shots hiraya with all his frogs, he looses this one badly
I agree with EVERYTHING!
🔥🙏🏼
@sageofthickcalves Are Pain and Nagato on two different levels (Early Naruto sage mode and above KCM 1 respectively)?
I'm rewatching the Pain arc right now, and seeing Kakashi keep up with Tendo, when Nagato was dealing with KCM 1 Naruto and version 2 Bee easily is really confusing.
@@i.q.1979 Yeah I think they should be two different levels in terms of scaling, but it’s not really clear tbh. There are people who argue sage mode Naruto > KCM1 Naruto
@@sageofthickcalves What's YOUR opinion on sage mode Naruto vs KCM 1 Naruto?
@@i.q.1979 KCM1 should be faster, but their combat speed is likely evened up due to sage mode’s precognition
Jiraiya could likely beat everyone except for the big 3 Itachi, Pain and Obito
I disagree with him beating Orochimaru or Kisame, but I do think there’s an argument
@@sageofthickcalves yea glad you showed jiraiya love in this video lol.. it seems every other creator disses him saying he's fodder/weak and he'd lose to every Akatsuki Besides hidan or konan. Some even saying hebi Sasuke edges out base jiraiya though would be a high difficulty fight for both
Itachi told Kisame that both of them would be killed if they took him on - was this just to protect Naruto and make them flee, when he entered the scene and used that “toad bind -stomach” jutsu - where both fleed. Was this just Itachi faking the strenght of Jiraya and his jutsu and playing down his own ability with his Susanoo and genjutsu + the strenghth of kisame?
Itachi could use amaterasu directly on Jiraya. Would Jiraya have a counter for this - other than avoiding with speed of sage mode?
Was Itachi statement saying “if we face him, we would be killer” totally fake and just to safe Naruto for being captured + not killing Jiraya?
@@CasperRiecke it really depends. I’d say it was probably a lie, but we also don’t know if he has the Totsuka Blade & Yata Mirror yet at this point, or how far his susano’o had developed. We also don’t know how strong Kisame is, in comparison to his shippuden self. So you could make a real argument for Jiraiya in part 1.
You overrated kisame by downplaying guy lol he didn’t tank a hirudora ( that was literally an air bomb being pushed under copious amounts of water against a giant water, bomb and steel incapacitated kisame, guy didn’t even intend to kill him since he needed to get information, plus he was not able to react to sixth guy where the hell do you get that from?
Only Matchups Jiraiya POTENTIALLY Loses is Itachi 🙌
Jiraiya would definitely beat Pain with info as stated. OM Obito has Nothing he can do to Jiraiya , so Jiraiya definitely Wins.
Jiraiya tanks the Poison needles with Lion's Mane and Blitz Sasori with Massive Rasengan GG.
Orochimaru cannot Predict frog song.
Seriously , Others are not even Close.
OM Obito would warp him away into Kamui before he could react. The other ones you made arguments for are arguable to some degree, but not Obito
@@sageofthickcalves Same Obito who Konan reacted to !?
Same Konan who got Blitzed by Base Jiraiya !?
Sage mode has extreme senses. Jiraiya is not getting Blitzed by someone who Danzo's Subordinates can react to.
Also , Ma and Pa can use that time to Attack Obito because he have to materialise in order to Warp.
Not to mention Jiraiya can effortlessly Escape from Kamui Dimension Via reverse Summon and is immune to Genjutsu.
Seriously , Kisame is more of debate than OM Obito 🤷🏻
@@SalmanulFarisi101 Obito outright admits he took Konan too lightly and then blitzed her the moment he got serious. Using Konan ≈ Obito scaling is super disingenuous. Literally all Obito has to do is touch Jiraiya and it’s over.
@@sageofthickcalves let me say this first. I think you are not like Other youtubers who are extremely biased and Ignore to see the obvious narrative and Feats. I think you can open your eyes IF something is proven otherwise.
Obito LITERALLY never Blitzed Konan.
Obito at the start of the figh Legit says he thinks Konan has a plan and Let her Come. He didn't take her lightly , He was just too damn sure that he was Stronger which got demolished later.
Obito backstabbed when Konan was out of Chakra. When he came back using izanagi. That's not Blitzing. That's just what Asura path did against Jiraiya. Those things are not called Blitzing.
I never said Obito ~ Konan. I just said Obito is not THAT fast as you try to make him out to be. Especially not faster than a Already Kage lvl Shinobi using Sage mode.
All Human path had to do was touch Jiraiya which he couldn't. What make you think Obito can ?
And i already said Pulling him into Kamui dimension won't stop Jiraiya. So No , OM Obito definitely ain't beating Jiraiya
@@SalmanulFarisi101 Obito says he took her too lightly on page 14:
www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10509000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-509
Page 14 Konan is attempting to take him down with her, page 15 he straight up perception blitzes her:
www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10510000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-510
You could also make an argument he blitzes her on page 6 here, but that could also be argued for Konan allowing it to happen:
www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10509000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-509
Either way, there’s at least one concrete blitz and one possible blitz, with the outright admission that Obito took her lightly. So again, scaling Obito to Konan is disingenuous. This is especially apparent when you consider that Obito reacts to V1 Ay, who’s KCM1 Naruto level in terms of speed:
www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10467000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-467
I love Jiraiya, but he’s simply too slow to react to the Kamui warping (Minato states without his FTG he would’ve been done for), and he has no way to tag Obito without Frog Song, which takes set up time.
Kisame only backed off because of Itachi being a double agent. Kisame scales to stronger characters even without the use of his sword, and also scales above orochimaru.
He scales solidly above sannin even in base. He fought 7th gate guy without samehada and 7th gate guy would one shot every sannin except byakugo tsunade of course. Fused kisame would no diff every sannin imo.
@@aleclegault5729 It'd be a rough match up vs War Arc Tsunade since she was able to decently tank being stabbed by Madaras susano'o clone but kinda hard to say she'd be able to tag him, but Oro and Jiraiya lose to base Kisame without his sword
@@Frstypwngaming ofc tsunade has the raw power necessary to kill anyone who scales above her with a solid hit but like you said, I don’t see her tagging kisame, he should scale easily above her in speed and if she’s trapped in the bubble she’s dead . But I agree that she’s the strongest sannin with the seal and has the best shot against kisame.
Can i ask you a question
why giving him intel about the Akatsuki members ?
It would add more difficulty to the fights
It’s the standard intel he’d have in the story. They also have the intel they’d have to that point
lol. Pain, Tobi and Itachi are the only ones that can beat him, he no-diffs Kisame and kakuzu. The narrative shows this clearly.
Kakuzu is Kakashi level hence why Kakashi fights him. You think shikimaru and co would dare go up against the sannin? lol.
Then we have pain saying Jiraiya coulda beat him and specifically put it into the story that they only beat him cos he wasn’t aware of the secret, true or not.
Then we have Itachi and Kisame run from Jiraiya and Kisame outright say he can’t beat Jiraiya. Then to top that, they didn’t go after Naruto specifically cos he was being protected by Jiraiya.
Kishimoto would literally have to spell it out for you.
I def dont agree with the sasori win cons how would genjutsu even affect his puppet body sense sasori is technically just the heart and with kakazu i dont think gamabunta would have anything to hurt kakuzu if the 2 tails couldn't gama is running hands with the 1 tails and from what i remember he thought that was a challenge type shit
If you can hear you can be affected by frog song.
I don’t think Gamabunta physically beats up Kakuzu. That wasn’t my argument. My argument is essentially that Jiraiya, Gamabunta, Ma, and Pa should be able to produce a powerful enough combination technique to put down Kakuzu.
@@sageofthickcalves see I think this is where you just get into how turning yourself into a puppet makes no sense the puppet body doesn't have like organs or a brain so id doubt it has ear drums sasori is just a heart in a box so really how the fuck is he seeing or hearing in the first same reason visual genjutsu shouldn't work those aren't actual eyes theres no brain or chakra system in the body and genjutsu affects the brain sure it gets there through hearing but what brain is it affecting how is sasori even able to think in the first place.
With them teaming up it really depends on how there destructive capabilities scale and I don't remember ma or pa pulling out anything that does any crazy damage and I don't think even jiriya with gama combo jutsu would have the same power as something from the 2 tails the taild beast thats main power is fire
@@whoknows8587 could just say the “heart” is an all-encompassing organ of some kind. Regardless, he definitely CAN hear
@@sageofthickcalves I mean yeah can assume that I guess but I mean really just don't know and again while he can hear what brain is it affecting there is no way to argue it working without making big assumptions about how the puppet body works and because of that I really don't see it fair as a win con mostly as the only win con you bring up cause it's again really arguable cause we just don't get how the body works if you ever re run that fight I would put that under a possible outcome I really wouldn't use it to say jiriya could and would be able to do that as his main win con as it's really arguable
@@whoknows8587 It doesn’t say anything about the brain in the jutsu description. It does say essentially that if you can hear it then you’re done. Here’s what it says verbatim: “Those who hear it are drawn into a genjutsu world where their minds are paralyzed.” The only stipulation for genjutu to work is that there’s a condition that is met for disrupting the opponent’s chakra. For sharingan genjutsu, it’s generally eye contact (injecting chakra into the eyes), some genjutsu only requires a touch, point, or hand sign. The condition that has to be met for this is that the opponent hears it. Since Sasori can hear for sure, he’s vulnerable to it. There’s nothing stated about physiology, so there’s no reason to assume it wouldn’t work on Sasori.
Konan beat sasori tho… 😏..
Now you dunno what the hell to do do ya?.
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I’m sure you’re like this dudes at it again 😂.
Hey bro I’m here for the Konan love 🤣
Nah dude,already saying he barely beats kakuzu is crazy.Actually is simply wrong,SM jiraya is exponentially stronger than rasenshuriken naruto
Styles make fights
Great video completely agree just one thing itachi can't even be hit wit genjutsu he has an ability to reflect any genjutsu like he did on kurenai
He can’t reflect ANY genjutsu, just genjutu of a certain caliber. She sharingan and it’s evolutions give the user innate genjutsu resistance, but I doubt he’d be able to resist the most powerful one
Jiraya is not losing to kisame come on man jiraya summons frogs for crying out loud and hes in sage mode.jiraya lost his arm by a surprise attack meaning he didnt do anything to protect his arm.
If the toads come out, Kisame fuses with samehada and traps them all in the big bubble. Jiraiya just doesn’t have an answer for Kisame’s overall power
@@sageofthickcalves what are talking about bro;frogs under water ,oil, two of the most powerful summons ever which have wind and water style jutsu I'm sure they can manipulate 💧. Also jiraya has earth style, he just needs to get to the ground if he's not already there use a earth dome or just go underground to escape.Jiraya has so many...many...many ways to escape the water sphere
For me:
1. Obito
2. Pain
3. Itachi
-----------------
4. Kisame
Jiraiya here
5. Sasori
6.Kakuzu
7. Deidara
8. Konan
9. Hidan
Jiraiya stomps Hidan and Konan hard, he should beat Deidara with low difficulty (but his suicide explosion can be tricky), he should win against Kakuzu but it wouldn't be that easy for him, he can win against Sasori but poison would be a massive threat for him and he wouldn't be able to afford to even get scratched by anything, he may beat base Kisame... but he stops at fused Kisame. He gets stomped by Itachi, Pain and Obito, that much should be obvious.
This is super solid 🔥 Where do you have Orochimaru?
I disagree. Zetsu beat Madara so zetsu solos the Naruto universe.
Listen Tyler, don’t come to these holy grounds with that blasphemy 🤣
Jiraya definitely beats pain
How?
Jiraya didnt beat konan sage
Orochimaru is not beating sage mode jiraya 😂😂😂 hydra form is weak asf,don't order ma and pa is the strongest summons in naruto so far they would dice up that lame hydra form with water.
Jiraiya 100% beat Konan.
Orochimaru and Jiraiya are relative in base, but the hydra is stated to be the strongest and largest of all the snakes. It also has crazy regeneration, so even if ma and pa dice it up it’ll just heal. Jiraiya genuinely doesn’t have anything that can put Orochimaru down in that state.
You see, this would be so Goated, if you didn’t follow the Hidan fodder agenda 🦐, Hidan would go god mode, build a nether portal, destroy the ender dragon, Partake in a dinner date with Tony Soprano, and Come back, and shoot Jiraiya with a .357 magnum.
Also jiraiya frog songs and Destroys 🦧🦧🦧🦧🦧🐏🐬🐖🐪🦌🐊🦍🐐🐏🐊🐈🦣
Oh dang dude I didn’t even think about that 🤦🏻♂️
@@sageofthickcalves yes I know, I’m just gorilla grod levels of Goated
Bloodlusted, jiraiya loses from itachi and up at 0/10 difficulty at that. Hax diff. Kisame would also win.
Well I have both Itachi and Kisame winning in this video. Also, the reason I said 4/10 difficulty for Itachi is because he’d have to use his MS and his MS abilities are straining on him.
c4 would do Jiraiya in.
I agree, I just don’t think the fight gets that far
Jiraya would still lose to pain even if he had info just because of tendo pain.obito is not a 0 mayne jiraya is a high calibre ninja fodder
Sage jiraya could probably fight with his eyes closed tho so tsukyomi might not be effective
He doesn’t seem to have the sensory ability given to a perfect sage, since the Ashura path was able to sneak up on him
oh yeah but that might be because he was exhausted @@sageofthickcalves
@@yl1614 I don’t think he was really showing signs of fatigue at that point. Plus, because of Ma and Pa, he had a continuous flow of sage energy flowing into him so he shouldn’t be getting fatigued at that point
Oh ok that makes sense@@sageofthickcalves