I always say it, until war arc minato would have spanked kakashi all the time, if you hear how kakashi speaks of minato, in part 1 kakashi was shooked by orochimaru, but yet someone like anko is like if minato was here he would stop orochimaru, this guy is strongest sannin member jutsu wise atleast yet minato would win comfortably , thats after minato had been dead for 13 years, it seem minato was so far above the sannin, then you have in the pain arc, kakashi was still pretty much relative to jiraiya faster than jiraiya give or take, yet minato is comparable to people who are above pain whose way ahead of jiraiya, so kakashi right through shippuden was sub sannin or sannin level struggling with kakuzu while minato is comparable to itachi,pain,obitos, holding off ninetails being compared to hashirama potential etc, by time war arc he only became comparable to minato using ninetails amp which makes sense, then kamui ofcourse, it was a no brainer that minato would win first fights through the middle where as kakashi would win more fights war arc onwards and when they were kids
I more or less agree with this... Kakashi had quite the fall-off in his later 20s. Whereas Minato continued to grow to amazing levels of power/skill, (and would've likely continued to grow if he hadnt died).
Kakashi losing to Minato, even in the war arc.Kakashi not beating base Minato who was able to move in front of the entire shinobi alliance, teleport a biju bomb, and throw ftg on the battle field, again, in front of the alliance, madara, obito, and the ten tails before being seen. And he dam showl not beating kcm2 Minato. Tobirama even comments on how he’s faster and quick at striking too. He was even able to counter the full nintails with an incomplete rasengan by like age 16. He would probably win if he was older and faced a younger version of Minato.
@@BennyLin718sometimes I don’t think some people understand how fast Minato is.. fam.. Minato used body Flickr in front of the entire shinobi alliance, madara, obito, and the ten tails , teleported a biju bomb, and place kunai before anyone even saw him. The ten tails, madara, and obito dead ass ran into Minato placed kunai, if they saw him, why would they run into where he placed the kunai ? Everyone was asking wtf happen.. Minato is blitzing itachi.
Something I gotta note about One Shot Minato's age is that he should be substantially older than the Minato that saved Kushina given how much he grew, and according to Minato's 4th databook entry, that was 27 year ago, AKA when he was 14 (since he died 17 years before the War Arc at 24) Also Minato does have direct scaling above even Late WA Kakashi's Kamui speed. He threw a kunai at Madara's feet and entered Sage Mode faster than Kakashi's Kamui portal could reach Obito, and he reacted to TSOs which outsped Obito's self Kamui, which is equal to Kakashi's Kamui (as them combining Kamui is stated to double its speed),
What? Him throwing the kunai and entering sage mode isn't all at once. Also Madara throwing a TSO physically is a different speed than controlling it remotely.
@@kakuzugoated873 When did I say it was all at once? The fact that it's not makes it more impressive, he did two actions before Kakashi could use Kamui. Also he sent them remotely both when outspeeding Obito's Kamui and threw them at 8th Gate Guy. Besides, Minato leaped forward to try intercepting the TSOs in the exact scene where Kakashi and Obito needed to combine Kamui to outspeed Madara's TSOs, meaning he's fast enough to not only perceive, but move in response to something faster than Kamui.
@@AlanJia8 He didn't though, I just reread it. The kunai wasn't thrown, it was already below Madaras feet, and there's three contradictions to the possible interpretation that Minato throwing the kunai was faster if you assume he threw it when he was doing sage mode. 1. That means his kunai would've blitzed Madara too, because he didn't even recognize it was there which is obviously just not what happened. 2. Gaara already had put a sand wall, and the kunai at no point was shown being thrown towards Madara from the wide shot panel or from the panels showing Minatos actions. 3. Minato needed to sit still to enter sage mode. So all Minato did was enter sage mode which he had been doing from sitting still for a while, then when his sage mode activated is when everyone started doing their things. The only thing that was faster was him teleporting while activating rasengan not shooting an attack or actually throwing it at Madara but simply activating the two jutsu he did faster than a tired Kakashi activating and closing the wormhole. So in the hypothetical, how would Minato have time to go sage mode against kakashi? How would he teleport to Kakashi with a FTG tag without it already being set? Because the only action that isn't instant that was taken before Kamui closing was Madara blitzing Minato and kicking his rasengan at Kakashi so fast his kamui didn't have time to close. So you're using Minatos extremely prepped FTG feat vs Kakashi portal closing. Ofc teleportation is faster it's instant, however he wouldn't be able to throw his kunai and teleport then use rasengan in base at the same speed he can teleport to an already existing FTG and simply just activate rasengan in sage mode.
@@kakuzugoated873 No, in the BW manga you can clearly see sound effects of it just hitting the ground (in addition to dust marks visually indicating that it'd just hit) 1. Where's the proof that Madara didn't notice it? 2. The sand wall was shown formed 2 panels later, that just means Minato threw the kunai faster than Gaara raised it. The wide shot and Minato action panels were after the kunai had already reached its destination, so I don't see how they're relevant. 3. Can just mean he has an extremely fast Sage Mode activation speed and was just being modest, or that he threw the kunai after he'd already gathered all the necessary nature energy and was just about to transform Kakashi being tired isn't very relevant considering that was his state for most of the Late War. And it's not true that Madara did the only non-instant action, Minato also swung his arm more than halfway to Madara before it was chopped off, which means SM Minato would be able to move a substantial distance before Kamui finishes. My point isn't even that Minato would attack Kakashi mid Kamui, just that his reactions are fast enough to teleport to an FTG marker to dodge a Kamui warp attempt. Also you just ignored my second example.
This new wave of power scalers has COOKING for one year straight. I’m starting to suspect y’all put some coke in that content fr😂 Jokes aside both of you make me wanna go back to uni.
Saying War Arc Kakashi is anywhere close to Hokage Minato level is crazy. The simple anti-feat to demonstrate it is that clearly it is heavily implied that Kakashi and Kamui-less Obito were on similar levels, but all the while Obito was only pretending to fight seriously when he intended to lose, while Kakashi was fighting for the kill. So if an Obito that had his main strategy (Kamui) made irrelevant was able to have a solid contest, while holding back and completely controlling the flow of the fight against War-arc Kakashi, I fail to understand how you could imply that this level of power is anywhere close to Minato's. The simple narrative importance that Minato (nerfed due to Edo) arriving on the battlefield is unmatched, clearly he's on a whole different level. Do you think that Obito without Kamui could control, and manipulate Minato into striking him where he wanted in the way he wanted? No, Obito would just get overwhelmed and obliterated merely hoping that Minato would hit his heart, with Kakashi he steered the whole fight as he wanted. It's probable that Kamui-less Obito is stronger than Kakashi, since he lost the fight in the exact way he planned.
I like to add one more thing is that unlike others like Minato, Kakashi was not trained properly for a brief period of time by anyone. He is probably one of few self-taught ninjas which also says something. MInato was properly trained by Jiraya and they did plenty of missions together. Jirya was also properly trained by Hiruzen for a brief period of time and also trained further by toad sages and so does Minato. On the other hand we have Kakashi who graduated the academy after his father died. Did his own thing and became part of various team as genin and chunin I think so. I don't know when team MInato was formed before or after the war but we do know for a fact that during the war in most of the missions Minato used to go on different battlefields leaving Kakashi behind, then obito and rin dies in shot amount of time. Minato became Hokage and then he dies later on as well. Due to war and Minato becoming Hokage also neglected the potential of Kakashi which would be given to him properly by Minato. Then we know for a fact that eveything Kakashi knows, his battle iq, tactics and 1000 jutsu's comes from his time in anbu. Even after getting the SHaringan none of the Uchihas helped Kakashi to understan how to proerly operate the usage of Sharingan and specially how to coupe up with the constant comsumption of chakra because he cannot deactivate it. So long story short, If kakashi was trained properly by MInato and introduced him to both sage mod and FTG composure, I think he holds more potrential to suprass Minato. Thus I love your collab with six and a W video. I do hope i convyed my opinion because i m not lie, my english is not good so bear with any mistakes xd.
9:28 The Kohinata scaling train is a really nice find. But truthfully, Danzo was probably counting on Itachi and Shisui catching Fugaku with his guard down. So it really only proves Kohinata>off guard Fugaku Edit: I didn't read the novels, so maybe I'm missing context
It really depends on how you interpret it, but yeah that’s the low end interpretation. The high end is they’re > the entire clan though, so I think the middle ground of those 2 > Fugaku is safest.
I mean... Kakashi's Kamui has already blitzed KCM Minato's perception when he tried to warp Gedo Mazo. So it definitely blitzes Alive Minato. I'm going to disagree on the whole "Kakashi was amped by Kurama" thing. The chakra cloak disappearing is a pretty blatant visual depiction of Kakashi losing any potential amp. The best you can reasonably argue is that he was back at 100% of his own chakra reserves. This seemed to be the case back when Kurama gave him chakra for the first time. Other than that, great video.
i feel like as much as obitos left eye aided kakashi it also put so much drain on his chakra, after his anbu days i feel like kakashi just slaked off on training since he was not killing left and right like when he was in the anbu, thats why he has such a low stamina before the war, and maybe he starts training before the war.
Indeed. Part 1 Kakashi is stated to be "Konoha's strongest ninja" (The First Databook) and that "anyone going up against him risks death" (The Official Fanbook). I believe there's also a statement from the Fourth Databook claiming that his title of "Konoha's Technique Specialist" (which he earned pre-Part 1) makes him a Hokage-level. And his performance against Itachi was far better than Orochimaru's.
Even if kakashi caught minato in the kamui dimension, wouldn’t minato be able to just teleport out of it, bc boruto was shown using flying raijin to travel to the 10 tails sealed dimension. Boruto also mentioned that he wasn’t as good as minato using flying raijin, meaning minato would do it easier
even kakashi with the nine tails chakra is a far stretch from Hokage Minato the amount of chakra reserves Minato has his so over powered Kakashi was the GOAT in the war arc but that an argument for another day.
Every single iteration of minato is said to be wayy stronger than what u depicted here bro what? Like how would teen kakashi even be able to keep up with minato war arc kakashi ain't touching hokage minato as well
Do you think you can do scarlet witch vs the otsutsuki gauntlet like you did with superman. I think that would be really interesting and fun because of the unique abilities of the otsutsuki and the scarlet witch.
@@sageofthickcalves Minato could still FTG himself to safety. Think about it this way. Assuming ero-tensei Minato was equal to hokage Minato in terms of abilities, then that same Minato was able to teleport between an 8-gates Guy bending space-time and Madara's truth seeking orbs, and then teleport away before anyone else even knew what happened. I don't think anything Kakashi can do pre-DMS can complete with that.
The Anbu Kakashi scaling was a bit strange as going by that logic mukai kohinata, a random jonin, would also be kage level which I don’t really buy . Also doesn’t anbu kakashi admit inferiority to anbu itachi?
@@Unknown-xh5vo Mukai probably was kage level. Itachi, with a mastered 3 tomoe sharingan, was uncertain as to whether or not he AND jonin Shisui would be able to take him down by themselves. No Kakashi never says such a thing.
Kakashi didn't have the rasengan, he achieved that after he got the Sharingan using his copy ninjutsu. HE DID NOT DEVELOP THE CHIDORI BECAUSE HE COULDN'T ADD CHANGE IN CHAKRA NATURE TO THE RASENGAN That's also why, when Minato banned him from using the chidori, he didn't just use the rasengan (a chidori + level technique)
@@its_hokori Page 7 says “if that were the case I wouldn’t have had to invent the Chidori” (referring to adding nature release to the rasengan), then page 9 he says “I wasn’t able to combine the rasengan’s change in form with a change in chakra nature to lightning”. Kakashi 100% invented the Chidori because he couldn’t add lightning release to the rasengan. He outright states it. www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10321000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-321
@@wem_iii yeah I never said “if you think x then he’s definitively above y”. I posited a valid interpretation of his power based on potential scaling points provided in the novels. Do you know what a sequitur is?
@@bubdavis4113 if sukuna doesn't outright use domain expansion, orochimaru blitzes bad and even if he uses domain, kabuto can heal himself and orochimaru can't die.
21:30 there is also a statement saying Minato can only be surpassed by Naruto like no one on earth can surpass him. So there might be implications that might be a full potential Kakashi
Kakashi says that statement and while he said that at the time could be true (Pain/Nagato, Obito masking as Madara and we didn't even know of EMS for Uchiha or the rinnegan. These things weren't in the series when Kakashi made that statement), it's just not factual anymore as a whole generation capable of fighting Otsutsuki are just far stronger than Minato
It is never stated that Team Minato was Team 7 like Team Kakashi or Team Konohamaru. Might have been Team 6 from Minato's time under Team Jiraiya, for example. Kakashi was twelve when he was promoted. Not going to repeat the explanation, but the five year statement has to be an estimate or is otherwise wrong given the rest of the timeline. He had less than a year's experience with the Sharingan before he was inducted into the AnBu and kept progressing from there. Minato was famous known across multiple countries after stopping the Kumo-nin, which is arguably more impressive than Kakashi's feats in the war, in terms of reputation: "The reason why Minato, who until this point was just another ninja, suddenly becomes well known across many nations is his great accomplishment in foiling Kumogakure's kidnapping of the Nine Tails' Jinchuriki. The Kumogakure ninja infiltrate Konoha targeting Kushina, a Jinchuriki who has the Nine Tails sealed inside her body. By kidnapping her, they plan to obtain the Nine Tails' power for themselves. Konoha immediately dispatches a search party upon realizing the situation, but they find no sign of Kushina. The Kumogakure ninja arrive at the border of the Land of Fire, and it seems all hope is lost, when... Minato, who had noticed some strands of her fallen red hair, rushes in alone to the rescue! After this incident, he becomes widely known as the man who prevented the theft of the Nine Tails. Minato finally draws Kushina's attention the day he saves her from enemy ninja in a dramatic rescue that earns him fame both in the Land of Fire and beyond its borders. While captured, Kushina leaves a trail using her red hair, and Minato is the only one who sees it, following the bright strands to come to her aid." The splash text for Minato Gaiden suggests it takes place during the Third Shinobi World War. Thus, it seems that Kakashi simply choose not to wear his hiate-ate that day (like Naruto did not when he was brought to Tsunade to be informed of Jiraiya's death), since he had already graduated by that time. Would also make Minato closer to twenty. Danzō's gaslighting of the Uchiha is not entirely accurate. Kakashi was already Kage-level from the first arc of Naruto by scaling above Zabuza who is possibly one of the top five strongest Seven Ninja Swordsmen, who base-line are the strongest in the village after the Mizukage. Bijūdama sometimes only explode after reaching a point they cannot barrel through, so Minato pushing it back at all is already above lower-end bijūdama altogether (if it scales at all, which is dubious). That jutsu count for Kakashi combines his battles with the swordsmen and battle with Obito, but he could have gotten healed in-between, so it might be a bit misleading. Kakashi already has a hiraishin mark on him. Minato can just teleport behind him at any time and Kakashi has no real recourse.
Great vid but I do want to say that if kakashi uses kamui to minato and doesn’t take his head off then it’ll be useless because we’ve seen boruto use the ftg from other dimensions. With that being said I don’t think it’s crazy to think that a kcm2 minato could potentially outlast a dms kakashi but I know that sounds crazy 😅
he most definitely does because kcm1 naruto tells nagato he's much stronger than he was against pain. and minato is faster than kcm1 and has power equal to rasenshuriken
Yall got Kakashi wrong He got mental Amp after meeting his dad in limbo, after that is when he starts going ham The mental block is in his mind the entire series and after that meeting he's just unleashed
Great video. I know you'll die on that hill with the Kakashi age thing but he is literally 12 in Kakashi Gaiden. It's specifically stated that it's their first mission right after Kakashi's jonin promotion and the only direct comment regarding his age at the time is in Boruto where even translated said he became a jonin at age 12. 4th Databook lines up that Kakashi and Obito are born in the same birth year and Obito is older (hence how he "died" at age 13 in Kakashi Gaiden while Kakashi is 12)
@@emssasukeisunderrated7946 we’ve been over this a few times. The Boruto statement says he had already become a jonin by 12, not that he became a jonin AT 12. He was comparing himself to Boruto, who was 12 there. Every other databook and novel reference to their ages puts them at 4 years apart. There is no way around this, aside from ignoring them being in the academy and participating in the Chunin exams together, which is manga canon.
@@sageofthickcalves Bro you know that's not true. The direct translation is who became jonin at 12. It uses the verb to become but in the literal past tense which is became. It's one of the easiest and is a direct translation. He's not comparing himself to Boruto there as Iwabe is the one who says this. Also since that was the academy exams they would've all been 11 most likely except Iwabe Other databooks don't note Obito's age other than the 2nd databook due to Kakashi Gaiden and it only states his 13 year old age. It doesn't even state Kakashi's age at that time, just his genin, chunin and current 2nd databook ages. It isn't until the 4th databook where we know that they are at the very least born in the same birth year which would line up with them being the same age since the 4th databook ends at like chapter 690 which still should've been the morning of Naruto's birthday in October. So they're both 31. Them appearing in the chunin exams and being in the academy together doesn't change the fact of what's stated. We know the 3rd ninja war is known for pushing talented kids faster through the ranks to make them go to war, so that part could've been retconned. But considering the newest material regarding his age in Kakashi Gaiden is the Boruto anime (funny enough), it's clear at the very least he was promoted to jonin at 12
@@emssasukeisunderrated7946 we’ve been over this, so I don’t feel the need to go over it again. But the overwhelming evidence is that there’s a 4 year gap between the two of them. You’d have to disprove every single point I’ve made in the ANBU Kakashi video in regards to Kakashi’s age to defend your one databook statement and interpretation of the Boruto episode statement
@@sageofthickcalves First, haven't watched the Anbu video. Second, there's potential evidence and then there's what is concretely stated by two canon source material with the latter being more recent than any Anbu Kakashi statements. The first being directly written by Kishimoto similar to the manga and other 3 databooks (with help from his staff) compared to the novels which are supplement material to the manga and databooks. Again, there's nothing in the novels that would disprove my argument. Him being in the anbu at 12 could've easily happened. Would've been a hell of a year going to war, losing an eye, losing Obito then Rin. But it would've still been possible. So there's no reason for me to defend it. It's pretty conclusive It's also not an interpretation but is the Viz translation for that Boruto episode. I just know that it's a direct translation having done it myself. You can ask anyone who knows Japanese. It's not hard to translate
I was looking through the academy graduation ages and there’s simply no way that Kakashi Graduated at 5 and became a chunin at 6. Rin, Obito, and Guy all take part in the same exams as him yet the first two don’t graduate the academy until they are all 9. Not to mention that it wouldn’t make sense for them all to be on a team together if Kakashi graduated 3 years before them. Kakashi and Guy are the only outliers when it comes to this so it’s more likely that like the rest of their class they actually graduated at 9
There’s no issue with their graduation ages. They graduated together. They’re just a few years apart. The databook 4 age for Obito is the only thing that’s directly contradictory to that
Can you quantify how much of a toll(nerf?) having the sharingan was for Kakashi. Im not sure how strong Hokage Kakashi is. I thought he was weak because he needed Sasuke to save the village in Naruto The Last movie.
@@cattusstroffic1243 Good question. So the sharingan wasn’t really the main nerf on him. It was actually more so the depression nerf that did the majority of the damage. You could argue, however, that the sharingan made him lazy. Kakashi isn’t weak due to that instance in The Last. He just doesn’t have an attack that has that type of AOE or raw destructive capacity. If he had used purple lightning on it, it would’ve just cut it in half, so it wouldn’t have done what it needed to do.
19:44 I am also not sure how well obito can even absorb the stuff in the first place. Because he hasn't really absorbed stuff to often and even pain takes a while to absorb stuff
There is a possibility that Minato is exhausted or not at full power by the time he is with Zetsu because we know Kurama can get exhausted and he can't really replenish it and Minato does have a speed feat on Kakashi at this point too
he wasn't sharing his chakra and making ode clones like naruto tho, would be weird if his supply of chakra would go out that easily. plus minato for most of the time while in kcm was mentally nerfed after finding out about obito
@@sageofthickcalves you don’t think Minato with perfected FTG stacked with the reaction time boost of SM would make a difference that’s interesting. we did watch Minato react and cook masked Obito who is a far far better Kamiu user than kakashi is at the time so I just don’t think in that match up it would really help. But really good video, gets the debate going in the comment section which is what it is all about at the end of the day. 👍🏽 keep it up!
@@joepzenz Yeah I’d just argue that Kakashi is better with Kamui at that point in the story than Obito was when he fought Minato. Kakashi’s Kamui should also be significantly faster, since it scales to a faster and stronger version of Obito’s Kamui. Thanks for the love bro!
On what tier of strength are the powerpuff girls@@aymanriki1018 they seem to not be as durable since some of the villains thay harm them are much weaker than metroman.... speed wise I know metromans speed and perception is kinda ridiculous but idk the speed scaling or attack potency of PP girls
Could we really say that Metromans stopped time existential crisis was his top speed? Couldn't that be considered a casual feat? Also are we sure the Powerpuff girls could even damage Metroman?
if kakashi is two years younger than obito, who was 13 during the bridge battle, then kakashi has to be about 11. it’s a small difference but it matters
@@val0liveira we literally see them join the academy together and join team minato together, straight out of the academy. These things happen in the manga brother
@@sageofthickcalves They join together but Kakashi was patented much earlier. When Kakashi became Chunin Obito was just a Genin, then Kakashi became Jounin only then Obito became Chunin.
@@val0liveira we literally see them join team Minato together AND participate in the Chunin exams together when Kakashi is promoted to Chunin (one year after Kakashi graduated from the academy). That is not possible if they don’t graduate at the same time
I’m still a hard believer of the Minato’s truth seeking orbs feat still being relevant. People nowadays try to debunk it by pointing out that sage mode Minato later gets throttled by ten tails madara, and now use this exchange as evidence of the the truth seeking orbs being massively slower ten tails madara himself. Even if the orbs truly were massively than madara’s physical attacks, Minato definitely blitzes them to a massive degree by teleporting them away on contact without them even scratched his coat. And sage Minato later being hit by ten tails madara can be attributed to a number of things. A.) characters of relative speed can still land or react to hits from each other, b.) minato’s combat speed can just be slightly slower than his reaction speed, and c.) madara’s staff obviously still has more range than Minato’s rasengan. I still doubt that the orbs truly are so much slower than madara himself given the fact that he throws them at 8th gate guy who was the fastest opponent he had fought up to this point by far. Minato still teleports in front of 8th gate guy as he’s flying and teleports the truth seeking orbs away with him before guy really moved at all. People disagree with the relevance of this by saying that guy is just slower when flying through the air vs being on the ground. Nowhere is this really ever stated, and even if it were true, we actually see guy blitz madara while in the air. So I don’t see where this inflated gap between tentails madara and minato is coming from the scene, base minato should still be relative to these tentails madara and 8th gate guy level speeds in at least reaction speed, which is like minato’s main thing. This feat also more comparatively impressive than kakashi using kamui to make a hole in madara’s shield for guy to fly through. And idk why you think kcm doesn’t add that much of an amp to Minato’s speed. Kcm minato should be incredibly fast and would otherwise have been a much more serious threat to ten tails obito if not for having been mentally nerfed for most of that war. Kcm minato being relative in reaction speed to like SO6P Naruto, but he’s just obviously much lower in all other stats than people at that level.
Yeah it’s definitely a relevant scaling feat. The people who try to debunk it are genuinely just being dishonest. I haven’t heard a single good argument against it
@@sageofthickcalves in the anime they even had guy and the truth seeking orbs moving in like slow motion 💀. Also I find the one shot’s implications of Minato learning the rasengan in what seemed like days very interesting, because jiraya says that it took Minato 3 years to master. So the rasengan we saw in the one shot must have been in its must of been when he learned it vs 3 years later when he fully masters it? In which case it supports what you saying about the rasengan being “nerfed” due to him literally just learning it like a couple minutes ago. Also people exaggerate the effect kushina’s chains had on kurama. I’m sure they nerfed him, but we see kurama rip off a ton of them just prior easily. I’m curious what you guys think about the hokage Kakashi scaling, cuz I’ve never really understood it past a brief confrontation between him and kashin koji in the boruto anime.
@@monke1419 totally agree with all of that. The rasengan was definitely in its infancy. You can actually see a noticeable size difference in the rasengan from the one shot to later on. As far as Hokage Kakashi, I have him at the second strongest Hokage, behind only Naruto.
@@aymanriki1018 what does Lee have to do with anything? He can just throw a kunai way faster than he can move. That’s normal, considering major league pitchers can throw a baseball at 100 mph, but barely crack 20 mph running speed.
😂😂😂 Whatta funny assessment about Minato... Tell me, how will you compare Kid itachi(The Smart ONE)and Kid Kakashi (The Genius)? For me comparing those two to Minato is a "BIG BLUFF"
The only issue with the Kohinata scaling apart from being disingenuous Is that MS itachi himself at 12 who was waaay stronger than his 8 year old self Was scared of even the thought of fighting fugaku This is the same itachi who one shotted orochimaru not even a year later… And a weaker orochimaru than that paralyzed kakashi with fear So you can say Fugaku somewhat scared itachi > itachi who bodied orochimaru > weaker orochimaru who paralyzed kakashi Don’t usually like nitty gritty scaling like this But this is definitely more accurate Unless you wanna claim danzo didn’t know fugaku’s true strengths Which still further proves my point
@@sageofthickcalvesI think it’s unquantifiable and there’s no telling if the nine tails poison was as effective as it is as part 2. I think it’s entirely possible the mental amp overcame all of that regardless . We can 100% to agree to disagree there 😅
Very bold to think assume that teen kakashi is over itachi and shuisi. When he was 18 he had kakashi pissing his pants unless you mean to tell me between 11-18 he grew in strength more than itachi did from 14-30? Ehhh find that that hard to believe unless itach was already above teen kakashi when he was 11-12 lol
@@joepzenz there’s a lot wrong with this. First, ANBU Kakashi is Kakashi from 12 to 22-ish. Second, the Itachi that Kakashi would be over is pre-MS. Just did a video on ANBU Itachi. You should check it out. Third, Itachi didn’t live to see 30. Fourth and finally, what exactly does this video have to do with Itachi and Shisui in the first place? Shisui was likely peak jonin to low kage when he died, and Itachi is high kage after getting the MS, which is when he was 12. So yes, 12 year old MS Itachi is over every version of Kakashi pre-War.
@@sageofthickcalves thanks for explaining your reasoning. I will check out the anbu kakashi video. He has feats yes but it’s hard to say he is over even teen minato simply just going off lore and head cannon. Minato got insane glaze throughout the story and he died so young so it’s hard to fathom any version of kakashi up to the end of the WA over him. But it’s hard when there is not x y z chapters with feats for him.
9:45 Not sure if he stomped them as it seemed like a short fight so at best he had been more physically stronger? Not to mention Danzo could just be wrong as Fugaku is implied to be on Itachi's level who is massively amped after this fight? I am not sure Danzo 100% knows Fugaku
Should Kakashi be back in his knees after the cloak is stripped away if the Kurama’s chakra not only restored his reserves but heals you as well? Unless I’m wrong about the healing aspect of the Kurama’s chakra?
@@sageofthickcalves was that after the fight with Obito? I’m sure that was was before Obito and prior to getting Kurama chakra for the first time(correct me if I’m wrong). Im referring to when 6ix said that “if Obito absorbed all of the Kurama chakra from Kakashi shouldn’t he have fallen down to his knees like he was before receiving it?” My thinking has always been that Kurama chakra healed the alliance members on top of giving them a boost. So if he’s healed he wouldn’t fall down.
The more Chakra you have the faster you recover that's how I interpret kurama "healing power" such dense Chakra can fix anything like how madara says hashirama could heal from any wound without jutsu. (I could be wrong here tho)
Minato is fodder .he was just fighting an astral projection nine tail stop wanking and saying he beat the 9 tail . During the obito fight he had to commit sucide with the reaper death seal just to beat the 9 tail
You do realize that power carries over into the mentalscape for a jinchuriki and their bijuu, right? And you know that other people entering the mentalscape are weaker than they’d normally be, right? Bee outright states this
@@johnsonjohnny675 It only gives him a slight benefit in SPEED because it’s an additive amp, not a multiplicative one. Basically, Kurama is FTL, but Minato is already FTL as well, so there’s no reason to think his speed would go up. On the other hand, he doesn’t have Kurama level AP, so his AP gets a massive amp. The reason Naruto gets a clear speed amp is because he’s not already that fast in base, whereas Minato is
@@sageofthickcalves While I have you I wouldn't mind a video on Minato vs Hashirama. Specifically hokage vs hokage and war arc. The consensus is that hashirama stomps. But I never saw a solid predictable win state for either fighter. minato doesn't have the ap to counter the healing and hashirama doesn't have a a counter for ftg. And chakra levels are more comparable then most realize
Part 3: Even if you take Kakashi's HIGH end assertions. You would have to do the same for Minato. And his High end assertion is that he as strong as Hashirama. Even if we don't like it. So round 3 would be Minatos wins
@@theyoungfamily8295 well, his high end assertion isn’t that he’s as strong as Hashirama. That’s never stated. The only thing you can safely gather from that statement is that Minato has the same talent or bijuu suppression level as Hashirama, not the same level of combat strength. That said, you CAN get his high end assertions to high kage level because of the Kurama feat. So their high end realistic assertions are both high kage level.
Because Kakashi was bloodlusted against Obito abd tried to stab him and Minato immediately stopped him before he could lower his arm. And Minato was not even close to either i am pretty sure. So there is a high likelihood that Kakashi is not relative to Minato with a cloak
Dude said kcm doesn’t give Minato as much of an amp lmaoooooo .. bro I’m dead…kcm1 was able to amp base naruto to the point that he could outspeed the 4th raikage’s lightning punch. Kcm2 allowed naruto to finally be able to react and tag obito. There’s no way you truly believe kcm2 Minato is not a couple of blitz tiers faster than base Minato if it amped naruto by that much.
I was specifically referencing speed, and there’s no evidence KCM actually made Minato FASTER. Since Minato was already at or above Kurama’s speed, it makes sense that he doesn’t get the same boost Naruto did, who’s below that speed in base.
Kakashi is not kage level in part 1 and danzo didnt know about fugakuys ms and also it is stated the fugaku is stronger then Itachi when he slayed the uchiha clan.
How could Itachi beat fugakus at that time I mean he doesn't have amaterasu or the sussano and mongekyo users have a resistance to tsukoyomi so that won't work on fugaku and we can clearly see that when sasuke broke out of it with a base sharigan meaning that any mongekyo could do the same.
@@meliodasking2100 first of all, Fugaku let Itachi kill him. This is blatantly shown in every depiction of the encounter. Second, Itachi literally uses Amaterasu against Suguru, so he 100% has it when he kills his father.
they keep saying chidoris power is in its speed. yet its the same as a Rasengan. a ball of chakra. why isnt kakashi allowed to use it the same way everyone uses rasengan
My 1st reply was to answer your last question. My 2nd was to answer your first question.. Chidori gives user tunnel vision becoz it amps speed. it's not just a ball of Chakra. It's lightning release Chakra. If Kakashi used it the same way as rasengan, it "should" become Vanishing Rasengan
@@cattusstroffic1243 your comment has nothing to do with what i said! sasuke uses chidori standing still. its a piercing move. he doesnt need to build speed to use. you didnt answer anything. you went on a rant about something i never asked.
@@CALLOFDEATYT minato didn’t fight them 1v2. He had his team, including his team leader Jiraiya, there with him. It’s very likely that Jiraiya was doing the bulk of the fighting. Also, they literally had to run away so it’s not like you can scale him to them at all. This would be 14 year old Minato anyway.
@@sageofthickcalves OK but also Minuto saved the entire team using flying Rijin which takes a considerable amount on the battle between Kakashi and minito Plus you didn’t even mention the fact that kid Kakashi didn’t have the sharingan until he was 13 which if you’re talking about 12 year old kid kakashi then he is at a significant disadvantage against kid Minito with flying rijin Plus if we take into account the teenage version he also is skilled in fuin jutsu sealing sorry for the misspelling my auto correct isn’t working right but in my eyes if Minito seals kakashi it’s Over with and we don’t even make it to the adult battle
@@CALLOFDEATYT The fact that minato requires hand signs to use FTG is a problem here. Also, Kakashi gets the sharingan at 9 or 10, not 13. That’s a big misconception in the fandom. He’s 4 years younger than Obito, since they graduated together and Kakashi graduated at 5, while Obito graduated at 9. Obito was 13 during Kannabi Bridge. It also wouldn’t make a ton of sense for him to be 13 there since he’s confirmed to have joined the ANBU at 12, which is after both Kannabi Bridge and Rin’s death take place. I explained further in my ANBU Kakashi video, but he’s definitely no older than 10 there. The problem with 12 year old Minato is he’s only got one feat, at that’s taking down a couple cloud shinobi to save Kushina. We have no idea what their ranks are either, so it’s difficult to confirm where that puts him in his scaling. Meanwhile, 12 year old Kakashi has been killing grown soldiers on the 3rd war battlefield ever since he became a Chunin at 6 years old. Definitely check out my ANBU Kakashi video and come back to lmk what you think. I go over how strong he was going in to the ANBU pretty heavily.
@@sageofthickcalves But you also have to think yes Kakashi is a battle worn ninja but his master the one who taught him everything we can assume since there’s really no feats that they are somewhat on the same power level and that match up with end in a draw and even if it didn’t end in a draw Minito would just Wait the battle out Since the sharingan takes a lot of chakra
14:19 I am not even sure with the high end scaling works because we just don't know how strong Fugaku is or how accurate Danzo's assertions are. Because i am not sure Kakashi could tank the rasengan Minato just did on Kurama you really have to argue Kurama somehow is weaker than Fugaku or at least would be hurt by him. I don't see any version of Kakashi being that strong
@@sageofthickcalves a) Yes but how often would he have seen Fugaku go all out? b)I am not sure Kakashi Is fast enough to avoid it. Even his lightning feat is questionable in how fast it is in universe
@@Redoren966 a) Danzo would have intel on his feats from the war b) Kakashi is stated in the databooks to have cut the lightning bold during his days in the ANBU, but I explained in my ANBU Kakashi video why he should be significantly above that
I think war arc kakashi beats every version of minato that’s not kcm very easily him moving on par with kcm minato without the raikiri amp and keeping up with white mask obito and beating him I don’t think obito was holding back in that fight and his chakra levels and his other insane feats just prove how strong and fast war arc kakashi is
obito literally fought kcm1 naruto, bee, gate guy and kakashi at once. he only made it seem they were fighting equally so that kakashi could chidori his heart
I think the issue with your scaling is that you go with things that are unproven as complete Certanity. Like anbu Kakashi being stronger than Mukai with nothing but differing adjectives to back it up. Him being his captain previously shouldn’t be relevant if this is after that time. Kakashi was in charge of Naruto. Does that mean Naruto never got stronger than him? Reaching
Brother you simplified my argument to a ridiculous level. I proved that he was a minimum of high jonin level at 10, then got stronger over the next 2 years prior to joining the ANBU. After that he became Mukai’s captain at 16, and I proved rank in the ANBU is more likely than not about ability. Your example of Naruto doesn’t work because we know jonin leader qualifications are a lot more nuanced than that.
@@sageofthickcalves ‘more likely’ is not a certainty. Mukai wasn’t under Kakashi’s leadership at the time of his death so Kakashi being over him at all is unproven
@@sageofthickcalves of course! I watched all of your videos and we had a mini debate under one. I think it’s just a high balled Kakashi, I do he is stronger than part 1 for sure.
If you think Danzo is wrong about Shisui & Itachi, that’s fine. You’d just have to assert that while knowing he had cameras in the uchiha compound spying on them 24/7
woahhhhh sage and six? that’s huge I didn’t know these guys were cool.
@@dontforgetsolstice1403 just glad to work with one of the GOATs 🙏🏼
bros working with six?
THATS INSANE, GOATED fr (both of you)
🫡
I always say it, until war arc minato would have spanked kakashi all the time, if you hear how kakashi speaks of minato, in part 1 kakashi was shooked by orochimaru, but yet someone like anko is like if minato was here he would stop orochimaru, this guy is strongest sannin member jutsu wise atleast yet minato would win comfortably , thats after minato had been dead for 13 years, it seem minato was so far above the sannin, then you have in the pain arc, kakashi was still pretty much relative to jiraiya faster than jiraiya give or take, yet minato is comparable to people who are above pain whose way ahead of jiraiya, so kakashi right through shippuden was sub sannin or sannin level struggling with kakuzu while minato is comparable to itachi,pain,obitos, holding off ninetails being compared to hashirama potential etc, by time war arc he only became comparable to minato using ninetails amp which makes sense, then kamui ofcourse, it was a no brainer that minato would win first fights through the middle where as kakashi would win more fights war arc onwards and when they were kids
I more or less agree with this... Kakashi had quite the fall-off in his later 20s. Whereas Minato continued to grow to amazing levels of power/skill, (and would've likely continued to grow if he hadnt died).
Kakashi losing to Minato, even in the war arc.Kakashi not beating base Minato who was able to move in front of the entire shinobi alliance, teleport a biju bomb, and throw ftg on the battle field, again, in front of the alliance, madara, obito, and the ten tails before being seen. And he dam showl not beating kcm2 Minato. Tobirama even comments on how he’s faster and quick at striking too. He was even able to counter the full nintails with an incomplete rasengan by like age 16. He would probably win if he was older and faced a younger version of Minato.
@@_JonJon_wat Minato doin wit the susanoo
@@BennyLin718sometimes I don’t think some people understand how fast Minato is.. fam.. Minato used body Flickr in front of the entire shinobi alliance, madara, obito, and the ten tails , teleported a biju bomb, and place kunai before anyone even saw him. The ten tails, madara, and obito dead ass ran into Minato placed kunai, if they saw him, why would they run into where he placed the kunai ? Everyone was asking wtf happen.. Minato is blitzing itachi.
@@_JonJon_ so he beats susanoo??
Love the channel, great videos
@@demigod7774 thank you!
already know u guys cooked with 2 of my favorite characters 🔥
Thanks brother! 🙏🏼
Something I gotta note about One Shot Minato's age is that he should be substantially older than the Minato that saved Kushina given how much he grew, and according to Minato's 4th databook entry, that was 27 year ago, AKA when he was 14 (since he died 17 years before the War Arc at 24)
Also Minato does have direct scaling above even Late WA Kakashi's Kamui speed. He threw a kunai at Madara's feet and entered Sage Mode faster than Kakashi's Kamui portal could reach Obito, and he reacted to TSOs which outsped Obito's self Kamui, which is equal to Kakashi's Kamui (as them combining Kamui is stated to double its speed),
What? Him throwing the kunai and entering sage mode isn't all at once. Also Madara throwing a TSO physically is a different speed than controlling it remotely.
@@kakuzugoated873 When did I say it was all at once? The fact that it's not makes it more impressive, he did two actions before Kakashi could use Kamui.
Also he sent them remotely both when outspeeding Obito's Kamui and threw them at 8th Gate Guy. Besides, Minato leaped forward to try intercepting the TSOs in the exact scene where Kakashi and Obito needed to combine Kamui to outspeed Madara's TSOs, meaning he's fast enough to not only perceive, but move in response to something faster than Kamui.
@@AlanJia8 He didn't though, I just reread it. The kunai wasn't thrown, it was already below Madaras feet, and there's three contradictions to the possible interpretation that Minato throwing the kunai was faster if you assume he threw it when he was doing sage mode.
1. That means his kunai would've blitzed Madara too, because he didn't even recognize it was there which is obviously just not what happened.
2. Gaara already had put a sand wall, and the kunai at no point was shown being thrown towards Madara from the wide shot panel or from the panels showing Minatos actions.
3. Minato needed to sit still to enter sage mode.
So all Minato did was enter sage mode which he had been doing from sitting still for a while, then when his sage mode activated is when everyone started doing their things. The only thing that was faster was him teleporting while activating rasengan not shooting an attack or actually throwing it at Madara but simply activating the two jutsu he did faster than a tired Kakashi activating and closing the wormhole. So in the hypothetical, how would Minato have time to go sage mode against kakashi? How would he teleport to Kakashi with a FTG tag without it already being set? Because the only action that isn't instant that was taken before Kamui closing was Madara blitzing Minato and kicking his rasengan at Kakashi so fast his kamui didn't have time to close.
So you're using Minatos extremely prepped FTG feat vs Kakashi portal closing. Ofc teleportation is faster it's instant, however he wouldn't be able to throw his kunai and teleport then use rasengan in base at the same speed he can teleport to an already existing FTG and simply just activate rasengan in sage mode.
Good catch on the age
@@kakuzugoated873 No, in the BW manga you can clearly see sound effects of it just hitting the ground (in addition to dust marks visually indicating that it'd just hit)
1. Where's the proof that Madara didn't notice it?
2. The sand wall was shown formed 2 panels later, that just means Minato threw the kunai faster than Gaara raised it. The wide shot and Minato action panels were after the kunai had already reached its destination, so I don't see how they're relevant.
3. Can just mean he has an extremely fast Sage Mode activation speed and was just being modest, or that he threw the kunai after he'd already gathered all the necessary nature energy and was just about to transform
Kakashi being tired isn't very relevant considering that was his state for most of the Late War. And it's not true that Madara did the only non-instant action, Minato also swung his arm more than halfway to Madara before it was chopped off, which means SM Minato would be able to move a substantial distance before Kamui finishes.
My point isn't even that Minato would attack Kakashi mid Kamui, just that his reactions are fast enough to teleport to an FTG marker to dodge a Kamui warp attempt.
Also you just ignored my second example.
2 of my favorite Naruto RUclipsrs in 1 vid it was awesome
Thanks brother!
This new wave of power scalers has COOKING for one year straight.
I’m starting to suspect y’all put some coke in that content fr😂
Jokes aside both of you make me wanna go back to uni.
Haha I appreciate it bro 🤣
Now that was a treat!
Thank you so much!
Saying War Arc Kakashi is anywhere close to Hokage Minato level is crazy.
The simple anti-feat to demonstrate it is that clearly it is heavily implied that Kakashi and Kamui-less Obito were on similar levels, but all the while Obito was only pretending to fight seriously when he intended to lose, while Kakashi was fighting for the kill.
So if an Obito that had his main strategy (Kamui) made irrelevant was able to have a solid contest, while holding back and completely controlling the flow of the fight against War-arc Kakashi, I fail to understand how you could imply that this level of power is anywhere close to Minato's.
The simple narrative importance that Minato (nerfed due to Edo) arriving on the battlefield is unmatched, clearly he's on a whole different level. Do you think that Obito without Kamui could control, and manipulate Minato into striking him where he wanted in the way he wanted? No, Obito would just get overwhelmed and obliterated merely hoping that Minato would hit his heart, with Kakashi he steered the whole fight as he wanted.
It's probable that Kamui-less Obito is stronger than Kakashi, since he lost the fight in the exact way he planned.
If only Minato hadn't been training mf supersoldiers, he'd probably cook Kakashi 10/10 times
@@donatedorb4094 bro 100% was a super soldier juiced off of depression lmao
@sageofthickcalves Minato meat riders really be delusional.
Great video and sick collab! 🔥
Appreciate it!!
Kamui so powerful even Heaven cant stop it
Fun video 🤍 thanks for making it!
@@user-ot9gp1bw9n thank you so much!
So glad yal linked up 🫡🫡 congrats on 100k Six
Another casual steezy dub Sage 😈
Keep this link up goin 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Thank you! 🙏🏼
I like to add one more thing is that unlike others like Minato, Kakashi was not trained properly for a brief period of time by anyone. He is probably one of few self-taught ninjas which also says something. MInato was properly trained by Jiraya and they did plenty of missions together. Jirya was also properly trained by Hiruzen for a brief period of time and also trained further by toad sages and so does Minato.
On the other hand we have Kakashi who graduated the academy after his father died. Did his own thing and became part of various team as genin and chunin I think so. I don't know when team MInato was formed before or after the war but we do know for a fact that during the war in most of the missions Minato used to go on different battlefields leaving Kakashi behind, then obito and rin dies in shot amount of time. Minato became Hokage and then he dies later on as well. Due to war and Minato becoming Hokage also neglected the potential of Kakashi which would be given to him properly by Minato. Then we know for a fact that eveything Kakashi knows, his battle iq, tactics and 1000 jutsu's comes from his time in anbu. Even after getting the SHaringan none of the Uchihas helped Kakashi to understan how to proerly operate the usage of Sharingan and specially how to coupe up with the constant comsumption of chakra because he cannot deactivate it.
So long story short, If kakashi was trained properly by MInato and introduced him to both sage mod and FTG composure, I think he holds more potrential to suprass Minato. Thus I love your collab with six and a W video.
I do hope i convyed my opinion because i m not lie, my english is not good so bear with any mistakes xd.
Your English is great! Solid takes 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
You did great love this comment brother!
@@sageofthickcalvesdo you think kakashi has the Chakra levels at that time to learn sage mode or use FTG properly?
One thing about Minato that bugs me is we don't know who his parents are also we don't know anything about his life before the academy.
@@KristopherDorsey-rq8ek I agree
Good vid bro, like to see the kakashi love 🐐
Thanks brother! We gotta hop on a collab 🫡
Shoutout six fr
@@ya_boielijah6983 fr
w content deff gonna check everything out
Thank you! 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
The insane glaze of kakashi in this vid is crazy 😆
Minato can’t do nothing wit a susanoo
@@chrono733 wat Minato gone do wit kamui
Kakashi glaze in this video is DISGUSTING lmao war arc kakashi gets destroyed by Minato lmao
Go cry about it Kakashi>>>>>>>>>Minato
more kakashi content!
YESSIR!
9:28 The Kohinata scaling train is a really nice find. But truthfully, Danzo was probably counting on Itachi and Shisui catching Fugaku with his guard down. So it really only proves Kohinata>off guard Fugaku
Edit: I didn't read the novels, so maybe I'm missing context
It really depends on how you interpret it, but yeah that’s the low end interpretation. The high end is they’re > the entire clan though, so I think the middle ground of those 2 > Fugaku is safest.
25:10 Wouldn't Minato immeadeately teleport back and kill him?
I was thinking the same thing. Kamui shouldn’t really cancel out the fact that he can just come back….and kill Kakashi 😂
Good job guys!!!
Thank you! 🙏🏼
My G Six on this? Bet!
Yessir! One of the GOATs!
I mean... Kakashi's Kamui has already blitzed KCM Minato's perception when he tried to warp Gedo Mazo. So it definitely blitzes Alive Minato.
I'm going to disagree on the whole "Kakashi was amped by Kurama" thing. The chakra cloak disappearing is a pretty blatant visual depiction of Kakashi losing any potential amp. The best you can reasonably argue is that he was back at 100% of his own chakra reserves. This seemed to be the case back when Kurama gave him chakra for the first time.
Other than that, great video.
The dynamic duo is back lets goooo
i feel like as much as obitos left eye aided kakashi it also put so much drain on his chakra, after his anbu days i feel like kakashi just slaked off on training since he was not killing left and right like when he was in the anbu, thats why he has such a low stamina before the war, and maybe he starts training before the war.
10:32 I am pretty sure Kakashi has been kage level since start of part 2 even arguably part 1
part 1 kakashi is close to kage level but not at it since his feats with characters imply he's just high jonin
Indeed. Part 1 Kakashi is stated to be "Konoha's strongest ninja" (The First Databook) and that "anyone going up against him risks death" (The Official Fanbook). I believe there's also a statement from the Fourth Databook claiming that his title of "Konoha's Technique Specialist" (which he earned pre-Part 1) makes him a Hokage-level. And his performance against Itachi was far better than Orochimaru's.
Even if kakashi caught minato in the kamui dimension, wouldn’t minato be able to just teleport out of it, bc boruto was shown using flying raijin to travel to the 10 tails sealed dimension. Boruto also mentioned that he wasn’t as good as minato using flying raijin, meaning minato would do it easier
even kakashi with the nine tails chakra is a far stretch from Hokage Minato the amount of chakra reserves Minato has his so over powered Kakashi was the GOAT in the war arc but that an argument for another day.
Just comes down the the fact that he might just blitz him with Kamui, since he’s relative physically to an arguably faster version of Minato
Every single iteration of minato is said to be wayy stronger than what u depicted here bro what? Like how would teen kakashi even be able to keep up with minato war arc kakashi ain't touching hokage minato as well
Nice video, personally i think war kakashi would beat hokage minato
Do you think you can do scarlet witch vs the otsutsuki gauntlet like you did with superman. I think that would be really interesting and fun because of the unique abilities of the otsutsuki and the scarlet witch.
👀
Did everyone forget that Minato already teleported away from Kamui when he fought Obito? Not only that, but immediately came up with a counter?
@@aeroevans9987 Kakashi’s Kamui in the war is faster than Obito’s in the nine tails attack
@@sageofthickcalves Minato could still FTG himself to safety. Think about it this way. Assuming ero-tensei Minato was equal to hokage Minato in terms of abilities, then that same Minato was able to teleport between an 8-gates Guy bending space-time and Madara's truth seeking orbs, and then teleport away before anyone else even knew what happened. I don't think anything Kakashi can do pre-DMS can complete with that.
@@aeroevans9987 Kakashi’s Kamui warping of Madara’s TSO defense happens in the same time span, if not a shorter time span
@@sageofthickcalves True, but Minato teleported twice (in and out).
@@aeroevans9987 this is true, but it seems the Kamui still outspeeds that, depending on how you interpret the paneling
The Anbu Kakashi scaling was a bit strange as going by that logic mukai kohinata, a random jonin, would also be kage level which I don’t really buy . Also doesn’t anbu kakashi admit inferiority to anbu itachi?
@@Unknown-xh5vo Mukai probably was kage level. Itachi, with a mastered 3 tomoe sharingan, was uncertain as to whether or not he AND jonin Shisui would be able to take him down by themselves.
No Kakashi never says such a thing.
Kakashi didn't have the rasengan, he achieved that after he got the Sharingan using his copy ninjutsu.
HE DID NOT DEVELOP THE CHIDORI BECAUSE HE COULDN'T ADD CHANGE IN CHAKRA NATURE TO THE RASENGAN
That's also why, when Minato banned him from using the chidori, he didn't just use the rasengan (a chidori + level technique)
@@its_hokori Page 7 says “if that were the case I wouldn’t have had to invent the Chidori” (referring to adding nature release to the rasengan), then page 9 he says “I wasn’t able to combine the rasengan’s change in form with a change in chakra nature to lightning”. Kakashi 100% invented the Chidori because he couldn’t add lightning release to the rasengan. He outright states it.
www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10321000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-321
Tbh, FTG and the Uzumaki seal jutsus are the only reason why we think he's stronger than most people.
Honestly, though, they’re cracked jutsu
minato's power is stated to be equal to rasenshuriken and we seen what it can do
@@aymanriki1018 his power level is equivalent to a rasenshuriken??? Lol 🤣
@@J-gritty no, his ap
"If you think" is an insane way to scale characters above others
@@wem_iii when did we say that to definitively scale someone above someone else?
@@sageofthickcalves 09:00
@@wem_iii yeah I never said “if you think x then he’s definitively above y”. I posited a valid interpretation of his power based on potential scaling points provided in the novels. Do you know what a sequitur is?
Not necessarily, a lot of power scaling is vague enough for variable interpretation
Bee's incomplete bijuu bomb in the war really fucks him up, so an incomplete bijuu bomb should scale to the bijuu s basic attacks at least
W
Stop cursing its a sin dude
@@gregkareem9824 prove that
@@sageofthickcalves that's on you to do it?
Y’all should do orochimaru and kabuto vs sukuna and uraume
👀
Let's be real here the debate is child's Play for orochimaru😂
@@austinallen1775 obviously orochimaru and kabuto win I jus want to see it discussed in better detail
@@bubdavis4113 the fight would still be epic for sure 😃
@@bubdavis4113 if sukuna doesn't outright use domain expansion, orochimaru blitzes bad and even if he uses domain, kabuto can heal himself and orochimaru can't die.
Can’t believe I missed this notification
Glad you made it 🙏🏼
21:30 there is also a statement saying Minato can only be surpassed by Naruto like no one on earth can surpass him. So there might be implications that might be a full potential Kakashi
Kakashi says that statement and while he said that at the time could be true (Pain/Nagato, Obito masking as Madara and we didn't even know of EMS for Uchiha or the rinnegan. These things weren't in the series when Kakashi made that statement), it's just not factual anymore as a whole generation capable of fighting Otsutsuki are just far stronger than Minato
It is never stated that Team Minato was Team 7 like Team Kakashi or Team Konohamaru. Might have been Team 6 from Minato's time under Team Jiraiya, for example.
Kakashi was twelve when he was promoted. Not going to repeat the explanation, but the five year statement has to be an estimate or is otherwise wrong given the rest of the timeline. He had less than a year's experience with the Sharingan before he was inducted into the AnBu and kept progressing from there.
Minato was famous known across multiple countries after stopping the Kumo-nin, which is arguably more impressive than Kakashi's feats in the war, in terms of reputation:
"The reason why Minato, who until this point was just another ninja, suddenly becomes well known across many nations is his great accomplishment in foiling Kumogakure's kidnapping of the Nine Tails' Jinchuriki. The Kumogakure ninja infiltrate Konoha targeting Kushina, a Jinchuriki who has the Nine Tails sealed inside her body. By kidnapping her, they plan to obtain the Nine Tails' power for themselves. Konoha immediately dispatches a search party upon realizing the situation, but they find no sign of Kushina. The Kumogakure ninja arrive at the border of the Land of Fire, and it seems all hope is lost, when... Minato, who had noticed some strands of her fallen red hair, rushes in alone to the rescue!
After this incident, he becomes widely known as the man who prevented the theft of the Nine Tails.
Minato finally draws Kushina's attention the day he saves her from enemy ninja in a dramatic rescue that earns him fame both in the Land of Fire and beyond its borders. While captured, Kushina leaves a trail using her red hair, and Minato is the only one who sees it, following the bright strands to come to her aid."
The splash text for Minato Gaiden suggests it takes place during the Third Shinobi World War. Thus, it seems that Kakashi simply choose not to wear his hiate-ate that day (like Naruto did not when he was brought to Tsunade to be informed of Jiraiya's death), since he had already graduated by that time. Would also make Minato closer to twenty.
Danzō's gaslighting of the Uchiha is not entirely accurate.
Kakashi was already Kage-level from the first arc of Naruto by scaling above Zabuza who is possibly one of the top five strongest Seven Ninja Swordsmen, who base-line are the strongest in the village after the Mizukage.
Bijūdama sometimes only explode after reaching a point they cannot barrel through, so Minato pushing it back at all is already above lower-end bijūdama altogether (if it scales at all, which is dubious).
That jutsu count for Kakashi combines his battles with the swordsmen and battle with Obito, but he could have gotten healed in-between, so it might be a bit misleading.
Kakashi already has a hiraishin mark on him. Minato can just teleport behind him at any time and Kakashi has no real recourse.
Also, what about hokage Kakashi? What forms of Minato can he beat and what forms of Minato could go toe to toe or beat hokage Kakashi?
@@scarecrow_fang Hokage Kakashi could beat every form of Minato all at once
@@sageofthickcalves including edo tensei?
@@scarecrow_fang Yeah. We know Kakashi has sealing jutsu, so he should be able to seal him. He also just massively out scales him
Hope we get to see a little more of this version of Kakashi in TBV.
Great vid but I do want to say that if kakashi uses kamui to minato and doesn’t take his head off then it’ll be useless because we’ve seen boruto use the ftg from other dimensions. With that being said I don’t think it’s crazy to think that a kcm2 minato could potentially outlast a dms kakashi but I know that sounds crazy 😅
@@MOP15321 Kamui is a sealed dimension, so it inherently works differently than Code’s dimension
This new wave of power scalers keeping the scene alive been straight FIRE literally non stop
Love you narutards!
Comment for the algorithm gods
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
10:48 Still not sure with Minato's feats because i would argue that Minato might just stomp pain
he most definitely does because kcm1 naruto tells nagato he's much stronger than he was against pain. and minato is faster than kcm1 and has power equal to rasenshuriken
11:40 He is also poisoned by a poison more dangerous than even Sasori's
Oh thats unequivocally false
He was greatly mentally nerfed, and would've gotten packed up by danzo up until shortly after the 5 kage summit
@@shadrachwilson5981 Huh?
Yall got Kakashi wrong
He got mental Amp after meeting his dad in limbo, after that is when he starts going ham
The mental block is in his mind the entire series and after that meeting he's just unleashed
Great video. I know you'll die on that hill with the Kakashi age thing but he is literally 12 in Kakashi Gaiden. It's specifically stated that it's their first mission right after Kakashi's jonin promotion and the only direct comment regarding his age at the time is in Boruto where even translated said he became a jonin at age 12. 4th Databook lines up that Kakashi and Obito are born in the same birth year and Obito is older (hence how he "died" at age 13 in Kakashi Gaiden while Kakashi is 12)
@@emssasukeisunderrated7946 we’ve been over this a few times. The Boruto statement says he had already become a jonin by 12, not that he became a jonin AT 12. He was comparing himself to Boruto, who was 12 there.
Every other databook and novel reference to their ages puts them at 4 years apart. There is no way around this, aside from ignoring them being in the academy and participating in the Chunin exams together, which is manga canon.
@@sageofthickcalves Bro you know that's not true. The direct translation is who became jonin at 12. It uses the verb to become but in the literal past tense which is became. It's one of the easiest and is a direct translation. He's not comparing himself to Boruto there as Iwabe is the one who says this. Also since that was the academy exams they would've all been 11 most likely except Iwabe
Other databooks don't note Obito's age other than the 2nd databook due to Kakashi Gaiden and it only states his 13 year old age. It doesn't even state Kakashi's age at that time, just his genin, chunin and current 2nd databook ages. It isn't until the 4th databook where we know that they are at the very least born in the same birth year which would line up with them being the same age since the 4th databook ends at like chapter 690 which still should've been the morning of Naruto's birthday in October. So they're both 31. Them appearing in the chunin exams and being in the academy together doesn't change the fact of what's stated. We know the 3rd ninja war is known for pushing talented kids faster through the ranks to make them go to war, so that part could've been retconned. But considering the newest material regarding his age in Kakashi Gaiden is the Boruto anime (funny enough), it's clear at the very least he was promoted to jonin at 12
@@emssasukeisunderrated7946 we’ve been over this, so I don’t feel the need to go over it again. But the overwhelming evidence is that there’s a 4 year gap between the two of them. You’d have to disprove every single point I’ve made in the ANBU Kakashi video in regards to Kakashi’s age to defend your one databook statement and interpretation of the Boruto episode statement
@@sageofthickcalves First, haven't watched the Anbu video. Second, there's potential evidence and then there's what is concretely stated by two canon source material with the latter being more recent than any Anbu Kakashi statements. The first being directly written by Kishimoto similar to the manga and other 3 databooks (with help from his staff) compared to the novels which are supplement material to the manga and databooks. Again, there's nothing in the novels that would disprove my argument. Him being in the anbu at 12 could've easily happened. Would've been a hell of a year going to war, losing an eye, losing Obito then Rin. But it would've still been possible. So there's no reason for me to defend it. It's pretty conclusive
It's also not an interpretation but is the Viz translation for that Boruto episode. I just know that it's a direct translation having done it myself. You can ask anyone who knows Japanese. It's not hard to translate
@@sageofthickcalves I do plan to watch the Anbu video soon as a supporter of the channel of course. I've just been very busy
No mention about part 1/early shippuden kakashi vs jonin minato?
I want to do a video breakdown on each of those versions individually at some point
@sageofthickcalves what about hokage kakashi vs minato?
@@oscarperez5539 Kakashi slams ngl
@@sageofthickcalves how would he counter FTG though without thr sharingan/kamui?
I was looking through the academy graduation ages and there’s simply no way that Kakashi Graduated at 5 and became a chunin at 6. Rin, Obito, and Guy all take part in the same exams as him yet the first two don’t graduate the academy until they are all 9. Not to mention that it wouldn’t make sense for them all to be on a team together if Kakashi graduated 3 years before them. Kakashi and Guy are the only outliers when it comes to this so it’s more likely that like the rest of their class they actually graduated at 9
There’s no issue with their graduation ages. They graduated together. They’re just a few years apart. The databook 4 age for Obito is the only thing that’s directly contradictory to that
Can you quantify how much of a toll(nerf?) having the sharingan was for Kakashi. Im not sure how strong Hokage Kakashi is. I thought he was weak because he needed Sasuke to save the village in Naruto The Last movie.
@@cattusstroffic1243 Good question.
So the sharingan wasn’t really the main nerf on him. It was actually more so the depression nerf that did the majority of the damage. You could argue, however, that the sharingan made him lazy.
Kakashi isn’t weak due to that instance in The Last. He just doesn’t have an attack that has that type of AOE or raw destructive capacity. If he had used purple lightning on it, it would’ve just cut it in half, so it wouldn’t have done what it needed to do.
19:44 I am also not sure how well obito can even absorb the stuff in the first place. Because he hasn't really absorbed stuff to often and even pain takes a while to absorb stuff
What evidence do we have that it takes a while for Obito to absorb chakra?
@@sageofthickcalves Pain had to take a while to absorb stuff who has more experience and proficiency
@@Redoren966 OBITO GOT HASHIRAMA CELLS WHICH IS BASICALLY AN AMP.
I am not sure how Kakashi does anything to Minato when both are teens
Might just be faster than him, since Minato has to make hand signs for FTG at that point
@@sageofthickcalves Yes but Minato might be on a similar tier to Kurama's speed
There is a possibility that Minato is exhausted or not at full power by the time he is with Zetsu because we know Kurama can get exhausted and he can't really replenish it and Minato does have a speed feat on Kakashi at this point too
he wasn't sharing his chakra and making ode clones like naruto tho, would be weird if his supply of chakra would go out that easily. plus minato for most of the time while in kcm was mentally nerfed after finding out about obito
Also why was sage mode minato not discussed when talking about hokage minato vs WA Kakashi?
@@joepzenz because it wouldn’t matter imo. Kamui is too fast
@@sageofthickcalves you don’t think Minato with perfected FTG stacked with the reaction time boost of SM would make a difference that’s interesting. we did watch Minato react and cook masked Obito who is a far far better Kamiu user than kakashi is at the time so I just don’t think in that match up it would really help. But really good video, gets the debate going in the comment section which is what it is all about at the end of the day. 👍🏽 keep it up!
@@joepzenz Yeah I’d just argue that Kakashi is better with Kamui at that point in the story than Obito was when he fought Minato. Kakashi’s Kamui should also be significantly faster, since it scales to a faster and stronger version of Obito’s Kamui.
Thanks for the love bro!
12:42 Minato was also practicing all day so he might have been exhausted. So i am pretty sure Minato might just stomp Kakashi
Sup sage, I have a good hypothetical vs for ya.
Metro man vs Powepuff girls
Sounds dope!
power puff girls blitz tf out of that man
On what tier of strength are the powerpuff girls@@aymanriki1018 they seem to not be as durable since some of the villains thay harm them are much weaker than metroman.... speed wise I know metromans speed and perception is kinda ridiculous but idk the speed scaling or attack potency of PP girls
@@clashsensei8267 they have ftl feat, metro man is somewhere between hypersonic and sub-relativistic.
Could we really say that Metromans stopped time existential crisis was his top speed? Couldn't that be considered a casual feat? Also are we sure the Powerpuff girls could even damage Metroman?
Great video just a few complaints
@@Redoren966 thanks brother!
if kakashi is two years younger than obito, who was 13 during the bridge battle, then kakashi has to be about 11. it’s a small difference but it matters
@@notjcole Kakashi graduated at 5 and Obito graduated at 9, meaning there’s a 4 year gap between them, since they graduated together
@@sageofthickcalvesBut they didn’t graduate at same time or year
@@val0liveira we literally see them join the academy together and join team minato together, straight out of the academy. These things happen in the manga brother
@@sageofthickcalves They join together but Kakashi was patented much earlier. When Kakashi became Chunin Obito was just a Genin, then Kakashi became Jounin only then Obito became Chunin.
@@val0liveira we literally see them join team Minato together AND participate in the Chunin exams together when Kakashi is promoted to Chunin (one year after Kakashi graduated from the academy). That is not possible if they don’t graduate at the same time
I’m still a hard believer of the Minato’s truth seeking orbs feat still being relevant. People nowadays try to debunk it by pointing out that sage mode Minato later gets throttled by ten tails madara, and now use this exchange as evidence of the the truth seeking orbs being massively slower ten tails madara himself.
Even if the orbs truly were massively than madara’s physical attacks, Minato definitely blitzes them to a massive degree by teleporting them away on contact without them even scratched his coat. And sage Minato later being hit by ten tails madara can be attributed to a number of things. A.) characters of relative speed can still land or react to hits from each other, b.) minato’s combat speed can just be slightly slower than his reaction speed, and c.) madara’s staff obviously still has more range than Minato’s rasengan.
I still doubt that the orbs truly are so much slower than madara himself given the fact that he throws them at 8th gate guy who was the fastest opponent he had fought up to this point by far. Minato still teleports in front of 8th gate guy as he’s flying and teleports the truth seeking orbs away with him before guy really moved at all. People disagree with the relevance of this by saying that guy is just slower when flying through the air vs being on the ground. Nowhere is this really ever stated, and even if it were true, we actually see guy blitz madara while in the air. So I don’t see where this inflated gap between tentails madara and minato is coming from the scene, base minato should still be relative to these tentails madara and 8th gate guy level speeds in at least reaction speed, which is like minato’s main thing.
This feat also more comparatively impressive than kakashi using kamui to make a hole in madara’s shield for guy to fly through. And idk why you think kcm doesn’t add that much of an amp to Minato’s speed. Kcm minato should be incredibly fast and would otherwise have been a much more serious threat to ten tails obito if not for having been mentally nerfed for most of that war. Kcm minato being relative in reaction speed to like SO6P Naruto, but he’s just obviously much lower in all other stats than people at that level.
Yeah it’s definitely a relevant scaling feat. The people who try to debunk it are genuinely just being dishonest. I haven’t heard a single good argument against it
@@sageofthickcalves in the anime they even had guy and the truth seeking orbs moving in like slow motion 💀. Also I find the one shot’s implications of Minato learning the rasengan in what seemed like days very interesting, because jiraya says that it took Minato 3 years to master. So the rasengan we saw in the one shot must have been in its must of been when he learned it vs 3 years later when he fully masters it? In which case it supports what you saying about the rasengan being “nerfed” due to him literally just learning it like a couple minutes ago. Also people exaggerate the effect kushina’s chains had on kurama. I’m sure they nerfed him, but we see kurama rip off a ton of them just prior easily. I’m curious what you guys think about the hokage Kakashi scaling, cuz I’ve never really understood it past a brief confrontation between him and kashin koji in the boruto anime.
@@sageofthickcalves i mean it required 6th gate lee to throw the kunai at that direction and ftg being instantaneous allowed minato to be there
@@monke1419 totally agree with all of that. The rasengan was definitely in its infancy. You can actually see a noticeable size difference in the rasengan from the one shot to later on. As far as Hokage Kakashi, I have him at the second strongest Hokage, behind only Naruto.
@@aymanriki1018 what does Lee have to do with anything? He can just throw a kunai way faster than he can move. That’s normal, considering major league pitchers can throw a baseball at 100 mph, but barely crack 20 mph running speed.
😂😂😂 Whatta funny assessment about Minato... Tell me, how will you compare Kid itachi(The Smart ONE)and Kid Kakashi (The Genius)? For me comparing those two to Minato is a "BIG BLUFF"
7:32 Minato stomps ngl
The only issue with the Kohinata scaling apart from being disingenuous
Is that MS itachi himself at 12 who was waaay stronger than his 8 year old self
Was scared of even the thought of fighting fugaku
This is the same itachi who one shotted orochimaru not even a year later…
And a weaker orochimaru than that paralyzed kakashi with fear
So you can say
Fugaku somewhat scared itachi > itachi who bodied orochimaru > weaker orochimaru who paralyzed kakashi
Don’t usually like nitty gritty scaling like this
But this is definitely more accurate
Unless you wanna claim danzo didn’t know fugaku’s true strengths
Which still further proves my point
@@ajayimoses2495 Itachi was only hesitant to fight his father in the anime filler, which is not canon
Minato in the rasengan clash had a mental amp that got downplayed once again, respectfully
You think the mental amp overcame nine tails poison, a massive hole in the chest, and being weaker in Kushina’s mental scape?
@@sageofthickcalvesI think it’s unquantifiable and there’s no telling if the nine tails poison was as effective as it is as part 2. I think it’s entirely possible the mental amp overcame all of that regardless . We can 100% to agree to disagree there 😅
@@manwithoutmercywhy would that be a mental amp?
@@kita7823the stronger desire to save Kushina and uplift her resolve resulted in the mental amp
W
Minato can’t do nothing to a susanoo
Very bold to think assume that teen kakashi is over itachi and shuisi. When he was 18 he had kakashi pissing his pants unless you mean to tell me between 11-18 he grew in strength more than itachi did from 14-30? Ehhh find that that hard to believe unless itach was already above teen kakashi when he was 11-12 lol
@@joepzenz there’s a lot wrong with this.
First, ANBU Kakashi is Kakashi from 12 to 22-ish.
Second, the Itachi that Kakashi would be over is pre-MS. Just did a video on ANBU Itachi. You should check it out.
Third, Itachi didn’t live to see 30.
Fourth and finally, what exactly does this video have to do with Itachi and Shisui in the first place? Shisui was likely peak jonin to low kage when he died, and Itachi is high kage after getting the MS, which is when he was 12. So yes, 12 year old MS Itachi is over every version of Kakashi pre-War.
@@sageofthickcalves thanks for explaining your reasoning. I will check out the anbu kakashi video. He has feats yes but it’s hard to say he is over even teen minato simply just going off lore and head cannon. Minato got insane glaze throughout the story and he died so young so it’s hard to fathom any version of kakashi up to the end of the WA over him. But it’s hard when there is not x y z chapters with feats for him.
@@joepzenz yeah I have ANBU Kakashi ≈ WA Kakashi, if that helps. I explain in the ANBU Kakashi vid
9:45 Not sure if he stomped them as it seemed like a short fight so at best he had been more physically stronger? Not to mention Danzo could just be wrong as Fugaku is implied to be on Itachi's level who is massively amped after this fight? I am not sure Danzo 100% knows Fugaku
Mukai literally immobilized Itachi and had Shisui by the throat, about to rip it out. He beat them down BADLY
@@sageofthickcalvesI'll read it again I am just not sure if there might have been context
@@Redoren966 nah he beats them up really bad, even though they had prep and intel. Definitely read it and come back
Should Kakashi be back in his knees after the cloak is stripped away if the Kurama’s chakra not only restored his reserves but heals you as well? Unless I’m wrong about the healing aspect of the Kurama’s chakra?
He does talk about being completely drained again after warping Gyuuki
@@sageofthickcalves was that after the fight with Obito? I’m sure that was was before Obito and prior to getting Kurama chakra for the first time(correct me if I’m wrong). Im referring to when 6ix said that “if Obito absorbed all of the Kurama chakra from Kakashi shouldn’t he have fallen down to his knees like he was before receiving it?” My thinking has always been that Kurama chakra healed the alliance members on top of giving them a boost. So if he’s healed he wouldn’t fall down.
The more Chakra you have the faster you recover that's how I interpret kurama "healing power" such dense Chakra can fix anything like how madara says hashirama could heal from any wound without jutsu. (I could be wrong here tho)
Minato is fodder .he was just fighting an astral projection nine tail stop wanking and saying he beat the 9 tail . During the obito fight he had to commit sucide with the reaper death seal just to beat the 9 tail
You do realize that power carries over into the mentalscape for a jinchuriki and their bijuu, right? And you know that other people entering the mentalscape are weaker than they’d normally be, right? Bee outright states this
How does kcm only give Minato a slight benefit?
@@johnsonjohnny675 It only gives him a slight benefit in SPEED because it’s an additive amp, not a multiplicative one. Basically, Kurama is FTL, but Minato is already FTL as well, so there’s no reason to think his speed would go up. On the other hand, he doesn’t have Kurama level AP, so his AP gets a massive amp. The reason Naruto gets a clear speed amp is because he’s not already that fast in base, whereas Minato is
@@sageofthickcalves While I have you I wouldn't mind a video on Minato vs Hashirama. Specifically hokage vs hokage and war arc. The consensus is that hashirama stomps. But I never saw a solid predictable win state for either fighter. minato doesn't have the ap to counter the healing and hashirama doesn't have a a counter for ftg. And chakra levels are more comparable then most realize
@@johnsonjohnny675 I plan on doing one eventually 🙏🏼
Yall are so wrong.
@@minatoavenger1 where
Strong argument
Part 3: Even if you take Kakashi's HIGH end assertions. You would have to do the same for Minato. And his High end assertion is that he as strong as Hashirama. Even if we don't like it. So round 3 would be Minatos wins
@@theyoungfamily8295 well, his high end assertion isn’t that he’s as strong as Hashirama. That’s never stated. The only thing you can safely gather from that statement is that Minato has the same talent or bijuu suppression level as Hashirama, not the same level of combat strength. That said, you CAN get his high end assertions to high kage level because of the Kurama feat. So their high end realistic assertions are both high kage level.
@@sageofthickcalves your right
Because Kakashi was bloodlusted against Obito abd tried to stab him and Minato immediately stopped him before he could lower his arm. And Minato was not even close to either i am pretty sure. So there is a high likelihood that Kakashi is not relative to Minato with a cloak
Minato used FTG to teleport to him
@@sageofthickcalves How do we know that and it wasn't RAW speed
@@sageofthickcalves Because Obito does not have a ftg mark
Dude said kcm doesn’t give Minato as much of an amp lmaoooooo .. bro I’m dead…kcm1 was able to amp base naruto to the point that he could outspeed the 4th raikage’s lightning punch. Kcm2 allowed naruto to finally be able to react and tag obito. There’s no way you truly believe kcm2 Minato is not a couple of blitz tiers faster than base Minato if it amped naruto by that much.
I was specifically referencing speed, and there’s no evidence KCM actually made Minato FASTER. Since Minato was already at or above Kurama’s speed, it makes sense that he doesn’t get the same boost Naruto did, who’s below that speed in base.
@@sageofthickcalves Dude, their is evidence. Every biju we’ve seen makes their jenchuriki stronger/faster. When have they not?
@@_JonJon_ Minato has the same tier of reaction and combat feats (physically) with and without KCM
@@sageofthickcalves can you prove that
@@_JonJon_ yeah. He reacts to 8th Gate Guy’s 5th step Sekizo’s speed without KCM. He does nothing with KCM that’s objectively above that
Kakashi is not kage level in part 1 and danzo didnt know about fugakuys ms and also it is stated the fugaku is stronger then Itachi when he slayed the uchiha clan.
@@meliodasking2100 you’re using anime filler content
@@sageofthickcalves No fugakus ms is canon
@@meliodasking2100 I’m aware. What’s not canon is Fugaku being stronger than Itachi during the massacre
How could Itachi beat fugakus at that time I mean he doesn't have amaterasu or the sussano and mongekyo users have a resistance to tsukoyomi so that won't work on fugaku and we can clearly see that when sasuke broke out of it with a base sharigan meaning that any mongekyo could do the same.
@@meliodasking2100 first of all, Fugaku let Itachi kill him. This is blatantly shown in every depiction of the encounter. Second, Itachi literally uses Amaterasu against Suguru, so he 100% has it when he kills his father.
they keep saying chidoris power is in its speed. yet its the same as a Rasengan. a ball of chakra. why isnt kakashi allowed to use it the same way everyone uses rasengan
I get what you mean. Wouldn't applying lightning nature to rasengan give him vanishing rasengan like boruto?
Also Rasengan is just rotating ball of Chakra and Chidori is a lightning release jutsu. Rasenshuriken is wind release rasengan
@@cattusstroffic1243 nothing you said applys to what i asked
My 1st reply was to answer your last question. My 2nd was to answer your first question.. Chidori gives user tunnel vision becoz it amps speed. it's not just a ball of Chakra. It's lightning release Chakra. If Kakashi used it the same way as rasengan, it "should" become Vanishing Rasengan
@@cattusstroffic1243 your comment has nothing to do with what i said!
sasuke uses chidori standing still. its a piercing move. he doesnt need to build speed to use. you didnt answer anything. you went on a rant about something i never asked.
Nah bro ur wrong we also have the minito one shot and it shows kid minito took on Han and roshi at the same time before creating the rasangan
Because he created the rasangan to copy the tailed beast bomb
@@CALLOFDEATYT minato didn’t fight them 1v2. He had his team, including his team leader Jiraiya, there with him. It’s very likely that Jiraiya was doing the bulk of the fighting. Also, they literally had to run away so it’s not like you can scale him to them at all. This would be 14 year old Minato anyway.
@@sageofthickcalves OK but also Minuto saved the entire team using flying Rijin which takes a considerable amount on the battle between Kakashi and minito Plus you didn’t even mention the fact that kid Kakashi didn’t have the sharingan until he was 13 which if you’re talking about 12 year old kid kakashi then he is at a significant disadvantage against kid Minito with flying rijin Plus if we take into account the teenage version he also is skilled in fuin jutsu sealing sorry for the misspelling my auto correct isn’t working right but in my eyes if Minito seals kakashi it’s Over with and we don’t even make it to the adult battle
@@CALLOFDEATYT The fact that minato requires hand signs to use FTG is a problem here. Also, Kakashi gets the sharingan at 9 or 10, not 13. That’s a big misconception in the fandom. He’s 4 years younger than Obito, since they graduated together and Kakashi graduated at 5, while Obito graduated at 9. Obito was 13 during Kannabi Bridge. It also wouldn’t make a ton of sense for him to be 13 there since he’s confirmed to have joined the ANBU at 12, which is after both Kannabi Bridge and Rin’s death take place. I explained further in my ANBU Kakashi video, but he’s definitely no older than 10 there.
The problem with 12 year old Minato is he’s only got one feat, at that’s taking down a couple cloud shinobi to save Kushina. We have no idea what their ranks are either, so it’s difficult to confirm where that puts him in his scaling. Meanwhile, 12 year old Kakashi has been killing grown soldiers on the 3rd war battlefield ever since he became a Chunin at 6 years old. Definitely check out my ANBU Kakashi video and come back to lmk what you think. I go over how strong he was going in to the ANBU pretty heavily.
@@sageofthickcalves But you also have to think yes Kakashi is a battle worn ninja but his master the one who taught him everything we can assume since there’s really no feats that they are somewhat on the same power level and that match up with end in a draw and even if it didn’t end in a draw Minito would just Wait the battle out Since the sharingan takes a lot of chakra
14:19 I am not even sure with the high end scaling works because we just don't know how strong Fugaku is or how accurate Danzo's assertions are. Because i am not sure Kakashi could tank the rasengan Minato just did on Kurama you really have to argue Kurama somehow is weaker than Fugaku or at least would be hurt by him. I don't see any version of Kakashi being that strong
To be fair, a) Danzo was spying on the Uchiha 24/7 with cameras throughout the compound and b) Kakashi doesn’t have to be able to tank a rasengan
@@sageofthickcalves a) Yes but how often would he have seen Fugaku go all out?
b)I am not sure Kakashi Is fast enough to avoid it. Even his lightning feat is questionable in how fast it is in universe
@@sageofthickcalves Because I am willing to bet a bijuu bomb is faster than lightning by a lot
@@Redoren966 a) Danzo would have intel on his feats from the war b) Kakashi is stated in the databooks to have cut the lightning bold during his days in the ANBU, but I explained in my ANBU Kakashi video why he should be significantly above that
@@sageofthickcalves a)Yes but how much? You can't really have a whole lot besides being well known
b). Yes and so should Minato
I think war arc kakashi beats every version of minato that’s not kcm very easily him moving on par with kcm minato without the raikiri amp and keeping up with white mask obito and beating him I don’t think obito was holding back in that fight and his chakra levels and his other insane feats just prove how strong and fast war arc kakashi is
@@Robbieuchiha early war is different from late war though tbh
@@sageofthickcalves oh yeah I know I meant late war arc sorry should’ve specified
@@Robbieuchiha yeah I agree
@@sageofthickcalvesyeah late war and early war kakashi are very different in power it’s the same with ems sasuke late and early war massive difference
obito literally fought kcm1 naruto, bee, gate guy and kakashi at once. he only made it seem they were fighting equally so that kakashi could chidori his heart
choji claps minato don’t @ me nerds low dif btw
I think the issue with your scaling is that you go with things that are unproven as complete Certanity. Like anbu Kakashi being stronger than Mukai with nothing but differing adjectives to back it up. Him being his captain previously shouldn’t be relevant if this is after that time. Kakashi was in charge of Naruto. Does that mean Naruto never got stronger than him? Reaching
Brother you simplified my argument to a ridiculous level. I proved that he was a minimum of high jonin level at 10, then got stronger over the next 2 years prior to joining the ANBU. After that he became Mukai’s captain at 16, and I proved rank in the ANBU is more likely than not about ability. Your example of Naruto doesn’t work because we know jonin leader qualifications are a lot more nuanced than that.
@@sageofthickcalves ‘more likely’ is not a certainty. Mukai wasn’t under Kakashi’s leadership at the time of his death so Kakashi being over him at all is unproven
@@robertdoyle2586 you cant prove an anime character is stronger than the other in power scaling with 100% certainty
What about hokage kakshi?
Hokage Kakashi slams every version of Minato
@@sageofthickcalves i mean kakashi self admits losing the sharingan was a downgrade for him
@@aymanriki1018 no Kakashi initially thinks that, but then he goes on to increase his chakra by “orders of magnitude”, aka at least 100x
I hate this Anbu Kakashi scaling but good video other than that.
@@cardstrades thanks brother lmao. Have you checked out my ANBU Kakashi video? It clears a lot of it up and explains why it could make sense.
@@sageofthickcalves of course! I watched all of your videos and we had a mini debate under one. I think it’s just a high balled Kakashi, I do he is stronger than part 1 for sure.
@@sageofthickcalves I also would like to establish who is the lowest kage level character in Naruto. I am going to back and reread the itachi novels
@@cardstrades so you don’t think the 4-5 year gap of not going on tough missions or training made him weaker at 26 than he was at 21-22?
@@cardstrades yeah definitely read them and then come back 🙏🏼 I’d say the lowest “kage level” combatant we see in canon is BoS Gaara
Outside of the fugaku stuff I just want to say Kakashi slams minato more times the not
Minato is kinda overrated
No he isn't. Man's 1V1'ed Kurama on 2 separate occasions and beat Kurama's ass.
Just admit that you don't like the character, it's fine.
@@Megidramon no he didn't 1v1 kurama kushina was holding suppressing kurama with her chains
@@revenantronin8377 so no one can criticise minato? He is overrated as hell
@@akiraman7664 that's not criticism. You've said nothing.
Kakashi anbu version has no feats just danzo WRONG assumptions lmao
If you think Danzo is wrong about Shisui & Itachi, that’s fine. You’d just have to assert that while knowing he had cameras in the uchiha compound spying on them 24/7
Kakashi 🏆 ✌️ WINS
Not really sure how come to that conclusion when everything the manga shows us says otherwise.