Did The Previous Owner LIE About Rebuilding This MOPAR V8?
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- Опубликовано: 16 дек 2023
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Stay tuned for the entire build series to get this thing back to life!
Several months back, @ScannerDanner reached out to me regarding the 1972 413 Wedge that he has in his 1978 Dodge Power Wagon... his initial diagnosis indicated a failed flat tappet lifter. According to the previous owner, the engine had been recently (within the last 10 years) rebuilt, but Paul had his suspicions that might not have been the case...
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Hi , when the previous person milled the heads 100 thousand , did he put 100 thousand shorter pushrods in to compensate for the milling of the heads ???
History of this 413 for the community:
This is a 72 413 Wedge out of a motorhome that was dropped into a 1978 Dodge Power Wagon (an unfinished 9 year project). I picked it up in Dec of 2021 and finished it. The original owner claimed a full rebuild on this engine including a steel crank and .030 pistons as well as a mild cam. When I finished (suspension work, glass, exhaust etc) the truck ran great! I have videos of me playing around in it on my channel. But after 3-4k miles, it wiped a cam lobe and lifter! I've since learned how poorly the cams and flat tappet lifter are made these days and how important zinc is in the oil! I decided to pull the engine and do further inspections instead of just replacing the cam and man am I glad I did! I pulled a few bearing caps (main and rod) and and then the heads and I did not like what I saw. I'm now in over my head! I'm an electronics and electrical guy and this has been my focus for 30 years! The last time I rebuilt an engine was when I was in tech school over 30 years ago! I do not have the know-how, nor the machines to be able to do the work that I feel is needed. So I started searching for local machine shops that can help me. Two of them flat turned me down! The rest of them are all closed up and out of business. This is a dying breed for sure. This is how I ran into JAMSI, my searches ended up showing me content from this father and son duo and I loved them right off the bat! My son and I do the same thing, working together and creating content. But it was more about what they were doing and showing that gave me the confidence that these guys know what they are doing and on a prayer, I reached out to see if they were interested in taking on this job, and much to my surprise, here we are! I feel like a kid in a candy store where mom says "get whatever you want"! I'm giving JAMSI full reign to do as they please, with the goal of a choppy cam that will play along nicely to a ZZ Top song when they're done.
you hit upon a great team for your engine
we love the mentoring done by The Cleaning Guy
I thought this might be your engine?
I like some cam sound, but I'm not a big fan of chop for it's own sake. Given the proliferation of Thumper, Rattler, Bootlegger and Sloppy Stage whatever grinds I guess I'm swimming against the tide.😁
From what I've seen around some run Shell Rotella in the older flat tappet engines. Amsoil's Z-Rod line of oils could be another option. There are separate ZDDP additives available as well. For the set up you want I would look for oil having zinc content of 1500 ppm or higher to run in it. The flat tappet issues started when we got an influx of made in China flat tappets mixed with the drop in ZDDP content in oil. Good to see your engine on here and to follow along with the rebuild.
it's a conglomeration of issues with flat tappets, soft lifter, improperly setup grinding wheels, improper heat treat, low quality iron, poor break in, and oil's that don't really meet the lubrication needs. Stick a roller in it. I have pulled tons of those engines apart over the years, I can't say how old that rebuild was, but that motor certainly wasn't stock and had definitely been rebuilt at some point. 20 under mains, etc. My advice, buy a stroker kit, put in a roller cam, slap some trick flow heads on it, go have fun till the cows come home. If you sonic check the block, most 413 blocks can goto the 4.250 bore of the 426 and with a stroker crank, you can easily get above 500ci and with trick flow heads a mild hydrualic roller cam, you will have a TQ monster. IIRC 440 source has nice stroker kits.
Paint in the oil pan makes me question the "rebuiders" level of competence.
Perfect example of why not to paint the inside of an engine incorrectly
Or, ya know, to not paint it at all
sounds like an amateur to me, because anyone with any knowledge of rebuilding an engine would tell you that you never paint the inside of the engine/oil pan
Right? I was like what the hell is this?
😅😅😅... what fool paints the inside of an engine and calls it rebuilt? Paint can rebuilt..
As an old school Mopar fanatic, I will be following this series intently. Working smarter, not harder, is a sign of wisdom. Your back will thank you for it in 30 years.
I was thinking the same thing. Nothing to apologize at all.
But i think your back shouldnt hurt at all in fact they should be strong and healthy if you use correct technique of putting strain on your muscles and not ligaments, just my opinion.
@@sran9492True but as we all age our muscles do degrade no matter how much we work out and it takes much longer to see the improvements. Most people when we were younger were strong and did things the wrong way which actually hurt them because when you're young you think you're invincible lol and you end up doing things that hurt you down the road . With me it is Arthritis now at 61 years old that's affected my whole body hands neck knees elbows feet and trying to work on my trucks or the muscle cars me and a friend work on at the shop makes it much more difficult to do now than when I was in my 40s . My friend has the same problems as me and he is actually in worse condition than I'm in & he's almost 10 years younger than I am but after all the years of abusing our bodies like we did it actually tore our bodies down and hurt them to a point that the body can't repair itself anymore in some instances. I used to race motocross years ago as well which probably didn't help because it's very hard on your body and with the suspensions used on the motocross bikes of the mid 70s your body got beat up pretty bad at times . The bikes had great power but lacked on suspension and handling big time compared to these new motocross bikes that and most tracks now are man made tracks that don't have big rocks and parts of tree trunks laying on the tracks that we had to look for while racing or mud holes to deal with at high speeds. The bikes got much nicer but the tracks are much easier than they used to be to race on because not much motocross is done outdoors now and is mostly done in doors . All I can say is it sucks getting old but wish I had the wisdom I have now when I was younger because maybe the outcome of how beat up my body is now could have partially prevented this because genetics does play a part in this as well.
Most if not all will say nothing wrong it’s all in your head.
In reality all of these folks are first class liars.
mechanical lift is not a Pansy move. It is. life longevity action that your back and shoulder will appreciate in 40 years
YEP! I've had that moment where you're reaching over to set a crank, and you feel that ZING in your lower back!! And all you can do to not drop it and tip everything over to the cement!!
I wished I would have listened to you over 50 years ago about using the electric winch I've had 7 back surgeries so your very smart
Keep the great videos coming
@ScannerDanner I was late to comment, but when do to think someone painted the inside of the oil pan, I'm in my 70's and have never seen that before.
John deere uses glycol coating from the factory on there engine blocks, that's the only place I've seen it,, I was told they do that to seal up there castings from porosity
Thats glyptol, not glycol
I've purchased a car that apparently had a rebuild engine. It turns out all they did was install a gasket kit
Overhauled and rebuilt are some of the most abused words in the English language.
Yeh. It also needs to be spray painted to qualify as a rebuild. 😂
I’m redoing an early Hemi, the previous owner didn’t know much about it claiming he bought it under the impression it was a 392, but it turned out to be a 354. Anyhow, someone decided to paint it, but painted over all the grease, dirt and everything else. So does that count as a “freshened up” engine?
Most now say, "It's been 'gone through'..."
Ah yes- the ol' "Craigslist Rebuild"@@raoulcruz4404
Paul sent me
Much love for helping my brother out
He has done so much for others it’s nice to see something being done for him
God bless & Happy holidays
Based on the factory style steel shim head gaskets, paint in the oil pan and overspray on the windage tray, id wager they did a rattle can rebuild, cam and thats about it.
10 dollars worth of spray paint
Reused the old lifters and smoked the cam too.
Those pistons are not TRW units. The intake manifold is more for mid to high rpm use. The damaged #4 main bearing and rough chamfer of the lube port is another concern... That bearing feeds oil to the upper end rocker shafts to both heads... They might be clogged with metal shavings that came off of the #4 main bearing... Yes this engine needs to be gone through by somebody who KNOWS what they are doing... Jami was a good choice to go to, for straightening this mess out...
Scanner Danner sent me here. We don't do major engine work in our shop, those days are long gone. I enjoy watching true professionals demonstrate their craftsmanship, skill, and understanding in unique trades of auto repair such as engine work. I like how you discuss, explain, comment, and prove/disapprove by tests/measurements that the work was done,etc.
You have gained a new subscriber.
Same here.
As Derek from VGG says, rattlecan overhaul.
A couple of things. That 413HD engine used a totally different head that had closed chambers, that's why you see those deep dishes in the FACTORY pistons. Combined with those '452, late model heads that engine probably had 7:1 compression or less. New pistons needed! The factory pistons you'd see used with those heads were flat top and about 0.150" down the hole on a 440. That engine (413HD) came from the factory with the same forged crankshaft as a 440, no problems there. It also came with a 3-bolt camshaft and double-roller chain so no surprises there. Go shopping for 413 pistons before you do anything else! Measure those chambers and see if they're still 88cc, you might need high compression 413 pistons just to get to 9:1.
Unless they show receipts for parts and machine work, NEVER believe what someone tells you is inside an engine. I had a buddy buy an early 70's Chevelle back in the 70's that had a "built" 350. It was a dog, but the owner said the carb needed tweaking and the engine needed a tune-up. Turns out it was a worn-out 307 that had been cleaned and painted. My buddy wanted to kill the guy.
Even having the Receipts and work orders doesn't mean so much. Had a 302 rebuilt with .030 pistons, cam, valves and springs, Stock rods and new bearings. The shop put our engine Number on another customer's work order as well. The tech didn't confirm the number on the block he was working on. The shop made it right, since the other customer was just getting a freshen up and shouldn't have had the level of machine work that needed to be done.
I had an acquaintance whose opening line was "I have an engine here that runs good all it needs is a tune-up" He should have been a used car salesman.
@@billywird sounds like a life insurance salesman with a vacuum cleaner distributor on the side. Could sell freezers to Eskimos in winter.
Here are a few things about Mopar big blocks that may help you. That crank looks like a cast crank (forged has a wide parting line), all big block cranks after 1972 were cast.
When installing the rocker arms, lay a tig welding rod across the top of the towers that the rocker arm shafts bolt to, so that the pushrods are held out a little ways from their normal resting place. This will allow you to install the rocker arm shaft so that all the pushrods will fit into all the rocker arm cups at the same time without fighting to get them all in place at once. Then just pull the welding rod out once they are in place.
Installing the rear main seal can be a challenge because the side pieces won't slide all the way down when you tap the rear main seal holder into place. Offset the side pieces so that they stick about 1/2 to 3/4 inch below the mating face of the rear main seal holder, then tap the rear main seal holder into place. If you get it right, the side seals will end up all the way down at the block face just as the rear main seal holder gets to the block face. You may have to do this more than once to get the side seals all the way down to the block face. A lot of people are tempted to just cut off the excess, this will cause a large oil leak.
If you are forced to use cork gaskets for the valve cover gaskets, you have to be careful how you install them. Invert the valve covers and reverse peen the bolt holes, these will usually be warped a fair amount downwards. Use a straight edge and make sure that the valve cover gasket face isn't warped like a banana. During your install, silicone both faces of the cork gasket and then snug the valve cover bolts so that they just contact the valve cover - finger tight ONLY. If you tighten it any more than finger tight/contact, you will split the gasket or push it out of place. You may think I'm being overly cautious about this amount of force, but I am not. I used to have to replace these A LOT, I know what I am talking about.
Make sure you get ALL the debris out of the oil pickup, the design of the pickup has a tendency to retain a lot of small particles. You may have to pry the sheet metal of the pickup up a bit so you can root around in there in order to get everything out of it.
From the info presented that engine is a 413 with factory dished pistons , standard bore with .001" oversized rod /or main bearings . If the casting # is 2120529 it is a truck , if the casting # is 22205697 it is a passenger , there is one more which is 2468030 I don't have the application for . If it is a motorhome it should have a roller timing chain , heavy duty oil pump , heavy duty water pump , low compression pistons and small valve heads sometimes. thhey are made to run on cheap gas , low horsepower with big torque . Hopes this helps !
Spot on- all of the hardware present for a great foundation to build on and run strong and dependably for years.👍🏻
I'm not going to bother looking back to check for sure, but I think the water pump housing looked silver, which I believe makes it an aluminum(MP) water pump housing. Before pulling the heads apart, you should have checked to see if all the valve stem tips are all the same height. If not, then the head rebuilder is an amateur. Because the pushrod was bent makes me think there may have been a stuck valve, or low oil pressure, incorrect lifter preload, or poor assembly protocol. The decking the heads could have caused problems with preload, too. The machine shop guy admitted he doesn't do many mopars. This is your first red flag warning!
Good old "Craigslist Rebuild" there. Can of paint and some new gaskets means it's "rebuilt".
The good ol spray paint rebuild
I bought a 350 sbc years ago that the owner said was recently rebuilt. Thankfully I checked it over befire installing it, ended up actually rebuilding it myself and making it a 383.
Anyone can write "rebuilt engine" in an ad. They're not going to let you pull the heads before you buy it. Besides, I've installed (poorly) rebuilt engines that ended up being worse that the ones I've taken out.
@@allenhanford
That would be irritating & I’m being polite
This is why a cranking vacuum test is a must to purchase. In 40 plus years of professional automotive I've saved customers n myself from buying lies or junk thousands of times.
And so much easier and faster than doing a compression test!
@@wallacegrommet9343 What amazes me is how few people actually know about or how to perform a cranking vacuum test. Much less how much more information it can give you over a compression or any other test. I see diagnostic guys like the dude he's doing this engine for perform relative compression tests using an amp clamp but I've never seen him do a cranking vacuum and Dan is one of the few on RUclips I respect as a technician.
Love that you guys are doing another v8 build. I’m a Mopar guy so this one is special to me. I’d love to see you through some power into it. Some H-beam rod, high compression pistons and a solid roller cam. Some high flowing heads and a single plain intake with Holly EFI. But that’s just me lol. Can’t wait to see the build. Keep it up guys. Thanks for the content.
Without supporting documentation , it is wise to consider the allegation of " rebuilt " , to at best , equal " molested in a woodshed by a hillbilly " , especially with ( but not limited to ) , MOPAR engines .
Let the buyer beware .
You're gonna be like Darek from Vise Grip Garage just smelling stuff then tasting it lol
Do you ever watch Nick's Garage videos? He is a Mopar guy and dealt with numerous junk B/RB rebuilds.
AWESOME!!!! I Love it when my favorite people come together to get stuff done. Paul Danner is in good hands with these two Craftsman and I know that he will be very happy that he came across Jim's Automotive Machine Shop. Thanks so much for bringing us along guys !!!!
I definitely feel like I am! I believe when it is done, I am going to make the trip from Pittsburgh Pa to Colorado just so I can meet them and shake their hands.
Noticed 2 groove keeper intakes and 4 groove keeper exhaust valves. This motor had rotators on the exhast valves from the factory. Noticed it had all flat valve spring retainers. Could be improper valve sping heights.... In our shop, we call those rattle can rebuilds:)
I have dealt with far too many cars that said the engine was rebuilt. However, from what I could tell, the last person may have done a ball hone, valve seals, and roll in bearings. They did this to an engine with far too much wear for it to work. The result was an engine that quickly went back to burning oil.
I had a friend who bought a Jeep Cherokee like that. He would frequently have to buy 3 quarts of oil at a time. One time I was lucky enough to have a spare 5 quart container of oil on Christmas day. He would have been out of luck otherwise.
I did a hone and re ring on my sb Chevy at 540,000 miles. It's currently at 610,000 and burns a quart every 1,500 miles..
What did you do to the heads? Sometimes people will just put in new valve seals and lap valves, when they really need new guides, or a set of oversize stem valves.
@@Bryan-Hensleylol you must have got a good one because most SBC are worn out by 70-100 thousand miles . My buddy had a 66 Chevrolet Impala in nice condition back in the 70s that had the original 283 in it and it was worn out at just over 100 thousand miles .Oil would drip out the exhaust pipe and the previous owner used to carry multiple gallons of oil with in the trunk to keep the engine full of oil. It got so bad that the engine didn't have enough power to move the car and eventually the only way to get it to start and run was to pull the plugs out and add some thick oil to each cylinder then put the plugs back in and use some either to get it to start and it smoked like hell and worked better as a mosquito fogger than anything. We ended up pulling the engine and another good used 283 with a 4 barrel intake on it but he ended up selling the car for quite a bit more than what he paid for it . The body frame and interior was almost mint still . It was that Maroon body color with a black interior and it was a nice car but he sold it and bought a 69 Dodge Charger and fixed that up instead . I've got a 400 SBC in my square body truck that's got over a 100 thousand miles and I had to replace the cam some years ago because the cam went flat and it still runs good but it leaks oil and is using oil so it's time for a complete engine rebuild with new everything and upgraded parts but I have to say when it's - 20 below out here in Wisconsin that 400 started when my new Chevrolet with the 5.3 LS wouldn't because the small battery these use can't take the cold and I had to use my old square body truck to jump start the new truck lol so much for all of this fancy fuel injection stuff that's supposed to make them start easier when it's cold outside.
@@peteloomis8456 Injection is indeed way better for cold starts. Not fundamentally different from cold starting with a carb, it's just that the computer does all the hard work when it comes to deciding how much extra fuel is needed, rather than guessing with the choke or primer. Does you no good when the battery is too weak to turn the engine over of course.
I own a small 2-stroke outboard and it seems to decide how much choke it wants depending not only on the temperature but also the humidity, time of day, and how badly I want it to start (the more of a hurry you're in, the more sensitive the motor gets).
really enjoy your work - just a few things I see
- heads not '72 truck / industrial heads - exhaust configuration
- could be newer 440 truck heads but look like normal heads (thin)
- casting numbers help, truck heads 361/413/440 thicker/heavier
- head gaskets on trucks flow different - coolant through the intake
- bearings should be full groove
- #4 main feeds the lifter gallery and rockers
- rocker shafts have to be installed left / right for correct oil flow
- aftermarket aluminium water manifold has poor internal flow may cause overheating
looking forward to your follow-ups on this
At least it didn't have the industrial/motorhome heads. After a quick sonic check, it should be safe to bore all the way to 440 size, for cheaper and more readily available pistons.
It's surprising how many jobs that show up in my shop that have been "rebuilt" and all that was done was surfacing heads or new oil pump, or cam. Some ppl think replacing any part off the engine is rebuilding. Or they get lied to from someone else.
If rering an engine, I clarify it’s a “hillbilly rebuild” because I’m honest. The last engine I did a hillbilly job to just survived a 400 mile road trip so I’m pretty happy about that.
This is why you can’t pay for upgrades that someone else did.
What the last guy did was worse than doing nothing.
Nice tear-down.
It's good to see you doing this job. I have a '70 Charger RT I bought unassembled, and wanted to do up the 440 with KB quench pistons. The block sat at an engine shop for 14 months - I went there and it was in exactly the same place it was when I dropped it off. The guy should have just said "not interested" when I first asked about doing it - that's fine.
Just getting normal machine shop work done is difficult now, all the little shops are gone.
Hi, ScannerDanner sent me to your channel so I can watch the rebuild of his engine. I am looking foreward to watching the process.
Huge cam for a low compression motor.
Be an even lower compression motor.
Look forward to seeing the rebuild! I'm a big SD fan and look forward to learning more about your channel!
This is awesome .. my top two favorite youtube channels doing a colab together … doesnt get any better than this!!! Can’t wait to watch the entire process and Paul Danner is gonna have the best shop in the nation building his engine! Gotta love it! 👍
How do you double the value of your Mopar? Fill it with premium fuel.
Love these tear down videos! Great stuff!
this is freaking awesome
@@johndavid3598 me too! Thank you
Bet this is a truck or camper/Rv engine with a cam swap and a rattle can rebuild. The truck and rv engines had the dished pistons factory with low compression. Probably why heads were milled try to get some more comp. Can by the flat top pistons for them 413 but little pricey. Good video can't wait till the next!
Awsome vid thanks. Love these teardowns
im sure you will but make sure you balance the rotating assembly. Paul is a good man treat him good and everyone will know the quality machine shop you appear to be. pistons looked like motorhome dish top. i think the casting on heads were i think i saw 452 not bad but much better out there.
I watch both channels. You both are excellent at what you do. I learn a lot, thank you. Your channels, skills and communication styles are very refreshing, especially in a day and age where people seem to know less and less.
Well, the seller told a whopper, but in all honesty it's for the better, as You've got a virgin bore to work with.
If it were Me, I'd toss the whole motor and look for a 400 core to work with. The 498“ kits based off the 400 really run nice, especially with some aluminum heads and a hyd roller.
Like Derek from Vice Grip Garage would say, "she got the old Craigslist rebuild and lost the receipts" 🤣seeing stuff like this is why I have trust issues when someone tells me the work that was done to an engine.. can't wait to see what you guys do with it! One thing I'm hoping to see is a hydraulic roller camshaft!
VGG came to my mind also!
Love the channel always great content and really love you get to do a big block mopar great engines God bless
Scanner Danner sent me over , I am looking forward to following this series . Vice Grip Garage thinks rebuilds come in a rattle can .
You guys need to do more old Chryslers, I miss seeing them.
Used to work on those all the time, hardly see them at all..
Being a later truck/industrial 413, it likely uses the same block casting cores as a 440. Which means the cylinders are very thick, and could accommodate the 4.320 bore of the 440 if you wanted. A quick sonic test would verify, but I suspect that's what that block really is.
Oversized 413 pistons aren’t as rare or expensive as they used to be so why hog out the bore more than is absolutely necessary just to have potential hotspots? Unless he goes with big valve aftermarket heads, there would be plenty of valve to wall clearance with a basic 4.210 bore (.030 over) and call it a day for a dependable short black w/thick walls.
@@boydoesititch Who said anything about boring it more than necessary?
I would actually do a custom piston for this, like nearly every big Mopar I do, and base the bore size on what it needs to clean up, and what ring availability will be.
Seems like many replies I see from RB enthusiasts regarding 413's are to go right to the 440's 4.32" bore so your comment about doing it fell along that thought pattern, however I agree with your reply in that bore just what needs to be bored providing workable piston/ring packages are available.👍@@v8packard
@@boydoesititch If you are committed to buying a quality piston, the costs are not significantly higher for a custom. Then you can get get exactly what you need, and have a nicer finished product. This frees you from the constraints of using one particular solution. It's a much better way to build engines, people should consider it more.
The start of a good engine build can't wait to see more content...thank you.
Love your videos. I can hear your breathing it’s just like mine take care of yourself so you can be around to lead your son or daughter down this path too. God bless
I enjoy both channels, as if working on cars all day isn't enough. But, When you combine Jim's Automotive and ScannerDanner you're gonna have one well running machine!
I don't think you could have picked a better shop to send your engine to! These guys go above and beyond on every job they work on.
Suggest that the oil filter be cut open to see what it looks like.
Automotive oil filters have a bypass built into the oil filter. If enough paint plugged the filer it will start passing unfiltered oil giving the opportunity for damage.
Why...it's toast.. rebuild it and send it.
Let the owner know it's rebuilt. Here are the specs. Nuff said
So looking forward to following this engine on its journey to full health 😀
4:30 man…I do that all the time. I don’t know why. I’m always curious on the smell of things I’m fixing. 😂
Bearings that are too tight will heat the oil and it has a very unique smell.
@@daleolson3506 yes! I find smells tell ME personally a lot. It’s like smelling the soul of the engine. Lol
ScannerDanner sent me! I will be looking for the updates! It should be a great series!
In the past I was a collector and restorer of antique gas engines. Now that is an absolutely huge sentence that you first read, mostly I was a collector and later on in my endeavor I did restore but you would be stunned at what people say a restored engine is. A friend of mine owned a company that “restored antique gas engines“ and let me assure you that there were times that there were 10 or $20,000 invested in some of those engines and sometimes even more than that. I owned an Otto engine and there were no replacement pistons available in the world that I knew of. It took me off and on working on this one year to get the piston out of the cylinder. When you send a cylinder out and have an 8 inch bored cylinder sleeved, you are spending some righteous bucks . Chances are they stuck a cam in it and fibbed about the rest of it.
Wish you guys would post more long form videos for weekend watching.
Great video thanks for sharing
That Lunati Voodoo 262/268 cam is a nice piece. Had one in a 327 sbc. If the customer wants one that talks a bit more, the 268/276 is a nice piece also.
From now on I'm bringing a bore scope with me to buy used engines. That cylinder rust is gnarly.
And I would never buy any engine without removing at least one main cap and one rod cap to check bearing condition.
@@miceinoz1181this engine had one deeply scored main bearing. What's the chance of the one cap you pull being this bad one? 🤔
I have seen enough bearings in my 55 years of engines to make me look further if I saw something I did not like. I agree that a sample may not pick up a bad one, but I also look at many other things to make that judgement while the sump is off. I suppose it is better than not checking any of them.@@dans_Learning_Curve
When I was coming up a "rebuild" was an engine that was machined to bring the tolerances to factory specs and worn parts replaced with new parts. An overhaul was a simple valve job, and new rings (we of course cut the ridge in the top of the cylinder with a ridge reamer) and bearings and generally were done at around thirty thousand miles for valves and sixty thousand for a re-ring. However, it made sense to do this all at once but there were times that a valve job needed to be done before rings and bearings (this was called an in-frames as most vehicles could have engine repair done right in the vehicle. When I went to a automotive machine shop class at my local community college back in the eighties, engine rebuilding and engine remanufacturing were pretty much interchangeable terms and we had access to all of the functions in the rebuilding process (excuse me the remanufacturing process). Of course, looking at this engine as you disassemble it, it is not only dirty, and not a rebuild but it looks to be a "repainted", (and repainted poorly) engine with a hot rod cam and lifters and of course the camshaft was wiped due to poor workmanship. I do not accept anything from anyone who claim it to be rebuilt. As a matter of fact I will not even buy an engine from people unless it is a remanufactured crate engine, or maybe one from Jim's Automotive Machine Shop. I learned engines from my father and he was particular and clean. I of course like doing engines for myself even though it is nasty dirty work to begin with but satisfying when you first start up a clean freshly painted engine with no problems.
There are specific definitions for "overhaul" and "rebuilt" in the aviation business. Including what needs to be done to individual components.
"Rebuilt" is checking everything, and reusing the components that are still within "serviceable limits" (which are defined in the overhaul manual)
An "overhaul" basically calls for most of the engine components to be replaced. About all you reuse is the engine block, crank if they pass NDT. Can't recall, but I think the individual cylinders go to the trash as well.
You're assessment would be correct. As soon as I saw those deep dish pistons, I knew it was stock. Amazes me how people will screw up a set of head's vs getting pistons. I understand it's cheaper but, it's the wrong way.
Spot-on. Especially on the B wedge head that depends on the proper quench to optimize burn (and stave off detonation).
One of the videos that pops up in my Facebook often and on here is an engine builder. He said recently there's been essentially a pandemic in and of itself with newly produced lifters being poor quality and failing.
Fun to see the tear down process and inspection of what’s wrong with engine components. That engine would be a nice fit for that vehicle!
We called those "rattle can rebuilds" in the 70s. Cam and a couple of cans of paint. Work like that is why Texas passed laws requiring shops to turn old parts over to the vehicle owner.
I have a question. The profilometer you use to measure the surface readiness after your honing.
Those can measure a max depth of 1mm or .0394”.
Can you use that on a cylinder with pitting or scoring such as these to give yourself a rough ideas or ballpark of how far you have to go on an oversized bore?
Say the pitting on that cylinder measured .018” at the worst spot, that would give you an idea that you’re going at least .020 over plus honing.
I know on an older video you did, I think the 383 build, you had to keep taking passes on a cylinder to see what your minimum was. Just to find out if the block was salvageable.
If you could use the profilometer, it seems like it would save a couple hours of setup and machine work just to find out.
If the reading it’s showing is over its max capacity, and that engine has no support for a .060 over piston, it’s an open deck and a big overbore isn’t an option, or a sleeve may be the route. It could shortcut hours of work.
Saving a customer the labor, saving yourselves the time, and expediting the workflow.
Maybe this idea is just dumb, I’m not a machinist and this is out of my ballpark. But sometimes good ideas, new processes, or techniques come from people not in the industry and blinded by archaic methods and processes.
Don’t mean any offense by this post. Could you make a shorter lengthen video explaining why or why not this method is feasible.
Maybe try it on this block on that cylinder and see what it says, and if the customer does move forward with a bore, see how close the profilometer was and if it is a step that could be implemented.
I’m curious just for experiments sake.
From what I remember from UTG, a lot of modern reproduction Chrysler lifters have lifter failure because there's no dome in the lifters or taper in the cam
Thanks for sharing and Merry Christmas to you and your whole family 😅
Hi all long time viewer of Paul's channel. Last time I went that deep into an engine was a 67 Firebird 327 engine rounded 3 lobes on a cam. The funniest thing on that build. I was torqueing the head bolts. I remember dad saying you can't snap a head bolt as I heard the dreaded ping and felt it snap. Good new it snapped off high enough that vice grips removed the broken bolt. 🤣🤣🤣
With .100 milled off heads, one wanders what the lifter preload is on the non adjustable valve train?
Someone put newer 452 heads on that, made for unleaded gas. I ported the 452 heads on my '75 400 using the Direct Connection template kit.
So it was fresh heads and a cam so it was "rebuilt".
Do some kettlebell swings. It should help strengthen and stabilize your lower back!
I have a bad knee from a dirtbike accident when I was 12 and then wrecked a car when I was 16, and those two contribute to my issues lol
But yes a little exercising/training would help… lol
If done right, quite possibly, however an array of basic core movements (targeting the posterior, anterior, and frontal) would do wonders for general control and power (and alleviate pain).
The lift on the VooDoo cam probably bound up the stock valve springs.
Scannerdanner says hello! Looks like it was a Craigslist rebuild. Love your shop!!
I just got rid of a 413 block yesterday. I was going to bore it to 4.250 and use ross 383 pistons with a different piston height to use 440 rods in the 413. What are your plans for pistons?
This is awesome brought here from Paul.
I've so LITTLE experience except Engines 101 in 1980. Back then they said engine overhaul goes to a dedicated machine shop. Therefore, I'm grateful to actually see one thru your vids. ✔️✔️
THX for promoting math/science. S.T.E.M. as it were is CRITICAL. Online education is superior to classrooms because you can rewind/backup/redo if you missed something... and everbody's mind goes blank on occasion so rewinding is PERFECT!
B T W -- back in 1980 it was offered that a well rebuilt engine is BETTER than new. That after running, engines adapt into their final shape which yields superior machining ability compared to new and "green" blocks.
Ive got one in my Duster with a 230°@.050" with .480" lift it runs 12.30's they can run pretty hard.
Rebuilt with a bottle of rebilt oil juice in the crankcase. You can get the same rebilt kit for any automatic trans.
those pistons were aprox 0.180" from the deck. it equals a compression of about 6.8 or less with a 0.021" stamped steel head gasket. the pistons were thicker on the tops to aleviate detonation. it somewhat looks like they just put a cam and lifters and timing chain dist and carb and intake in it and went with it. i had a highscool freind that had the same year block i believe the engine had apox 45000 miles on one put on 906 casting heads that were cut to aprox 82 ccs permatorque felpro 0.037" head gaskets a mopar performance 509 lift cam, 950 holley hp type double pumper,holley blue electric pump m1 intake port matched 2 inch comp headers, j8 champion plugs, yes lawnmower plugs because the standard champion j/12y cs would hit the header tubes. it was put in a 1964 dodge dart wagon engine was set back , had 4.56 gears, a 727 with all of the crazy mods,5000 stall cope trans torque convertor. this little ugly dart went aprox 11.27 in the 1/4 mile at 117 mph. and i forgot to tell you about the 175 hp of that wacky nitrous. i never liked it but you kind of need it when you have bassically briggs and stratton compression. i could tell you more about racing mopar stuff but this is plenty. looking for more on this soon to be bulldozen torqer rebuilt the proper way. another thing is that crank is about 68-70 lbs!
Enjoy your channel immensely. Maybe I’ll go into machining during retirement! Also nice to see a professional who isn’t a Milwaukee Tools fanboy 😂. Use what works and what ya got!
hopefully you got a good core , needs some roller action and EFI upgrades
ScannerDanner sent me, but he didn't have to; I watch both of your channels. You guys are great at what you do!
Save your back any time you can ! Thanks for sharing !
Now that’s a thorough rebuild. They even sprayed the inside of the oil pan.
very surprised that they milled the heads for compression and never pulled pistons to change out to a non dished style, especially since the pistons look like they have tons of room to the deck of the block.
I'm with you nick, use the tools available so I don't kill my body.
I’m ready for part two
Great episode!!! I particularly like how You described the known failures and the things that could have possibly caused those failutes... Those Pistons are standard size slugs, with interference fit pins, which leads me to believe that they are likely stock units that came with this engine... Decent quality parts but they are probably NOT TRW/Speed Pro/ Sealed Power forged or Hyper- Eutectic pistons.... Most likely , they are MOPAR stock units.... The crank seems to look very nice.... Coming from a motor home, I'm wondering if this is an industrial grade engine...The heads seem to have enlarged coolant passageways . If the exhaust valve spring retainers are the rotating types, and it has hardened exhaust seats and stellite exhaust valves, then it is probably an industrial (Heavy Duty) engine that can handle extended Periods of WFO, with a 600-625 cfm carb. and an Edelbrock 'Performer' intake manifold, with a dual plane, split plenum & longer runners.... That 'Torker' intake & headers are better suited for a high rpm engine, which is negating the known advantages of the 413's : Low to mid range torque...It would be very cool if this engine could be dyno tuned to accomadate a 600-625 CFM carb. to produce maximum reliability & efficiency....
As someone who owns a 72 413 out of a RV this is very interesting to see as forth my engine sits at a builder currently
if indeed its not been rebuilt hes a lucky guy now it can be rebuilt properly use some KB pistons flat top, to get some reasonable compression to start with thanks good video.
I'm a little dad and son engine shop in toronto and the number of "rebuilt" motors i end up rebuilding is incredible. I just delivered a 350 to a customer and took his supposedly rebuilt core, he paid 50 thousand for a truck with a supposedly rebuilt crate engine, when i took the head off it's still got rust in the water jackets. If you're buying a car, buy the car, never buy the story unless you can see evidence, receipts or the guy who did the work.
Came over to this channel from ScannerDanner to watch his engine get built. Engine machine shops are becoming harder and harder to come buy. We live in a disposable world these days. As a Dodge who building a big block Dart this will be interesting.
Where’s the helper? 😁 also love that the sponsored content does not interrupt the flow of the video!
Hello from the ScannerDanner group.
It was a rattle can - cold snack- Pott County rebuild. Straight off of Craigslist.
Been around engines my whole life. 30 years in dealerships. I think that may be the first time I’ve seen paint INSIDE an oil pan. 😂
I grew up under a father that owned an engine, rebuilding shop, and getting things perfectly clean, was one of many serious goals that could never be compromised. When I saw paint inside the engine, I thought perhaps that contributed to the failure.
the paint in the oil pickup is definitely suspect.
The suspect is the hillbilly who painted the inside of the engine. Used a countersink bit for chamfer the oil passages. Ran the truck with out breaking in the cam.