Their 235 Chevy BROKE DOWN 10 Miles After The LAST Shop's Rebuild...
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- Опубликовано: 3 фев 2024
- Thank you to Keeps for sponsoring this video! Head to keeps.com/jimsauto to get a special offer.
A third generation customer brought us a 1956 235 Chevrolet engine which they said had seized within 10 miles of the last rebuild... What will we find inside?
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#235Chevy #automotivemachining #jimsautomotivemachineshop 
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Thank you to Keeps for sponsoring this video! Head to keeps.com/jimsauto to get a special offer.
Wild how much went in these old motors for how truly simple they where
sorry keeps, if you do anything for grey hair that doesn't look like i've dubbed in boot polish then i might look you up but thinning hair's not something i'm likely to live long enough to worry about, not unless i make ninety-five or something.
Hello. can you make a part 2 video where you assemble the motor and test it?
@@yeahok115sure looks like someone tried to rebuild the engine in the past,,
DUDE you dontrebuild an engine withOUT YEARS OF STUDY AND YEARS OF APPRENCTISHIP..
its also valid for mechanics,,
swap and engine is one thing, repair it is another things..
@@karlwithak. looks like somone made a "garbage" service in that engine
people never learn that is not their area,, it will cost 10 x times more and more time consuming,, plays engine machinist,
As a certified mechanic of ten years I appreciate you guys not rushing to throw the previous shop under the bus. You guys are a class act!
it's a Frankenstein motor made from the parts of different motors.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I agree.
The standard should be calling a spade a spade. When a shop screws something up, they should be called out for it. Covering mistakes up is worse than making one. Everyone makes honest mistakes, covering one up is not honest or a mistake.
@@slimdugger99 yes but jamsi isn't covering it up, he's letting the previous shops work speak for itself.
"Another shop" ususally means, "I did it myself and screwed up, but am embarrassed to admit it."
"I just have to deal with you." Lovingly father/son bantering, I love it.
I think mispackaging is a great answer to the problem.
Mispackaging is how you get to have a son to do that banter 😆🫂🤦
Especially with the dates so close.
I agreeeee !!!
Monday packaging...
my suggestion is the orders both sets discoved the needed 30 not 20 and the got mixed up weather it was the shop that did the engine or the previos posessor of the kit
I was a mechanic for 50 years before I slid the toolbox into my own shop and worked on my own stuff. I'm still fascinated with watching other mechanics and hearing their commentary. I especially like it when the previous shop wasn't bashed. Mistakes happen and God only knows how many I've made. And how many stupid things I've done recently. Good show!
I’m fascinated as well just how meticulous and the creative enginouty going into these things. I always love learning new things in case I need to do it myself one day.
Everyone always enjoys a good post mortem. Inside every good mechanic is a detective.
Man, watching this makes me think a lot about my old man. We grew up on a farm and he taught me everything I know from fixing dirt bikes to farm tractors. Unfortunately I lost him to a heart attack about a decade ago when I was just 17. Cherish your relationship and don’t let the little arguments go to heart, make amends on the spot so you don’t live the rest of your life regretting your mistakes. Thanks for posting these videos!
Amen, brother!!
Tom, my father was also a mechanical engineer with a side of Fitter and Turner.
He also died of a heart attack when I was 17. (I'm now 58).
Like you, I was subject to child labour as we worked on milling machines, lathes, and bench and pedestal drills and grinders. Learnt so much from him.
Terrible thing, to lose a dad so young.
Cheers from Sydney Australia
Your Dad is proud of you!
Just know that your father knew in his heart how you felt about him as well as you know in your heart how he felt about you, your dad was young once too.
The only thing that would have upset your father is if he knew that you kept this burden on you for so long. Just tell him how you feel and how you felt. The words will pop into your head of him speaking back to you. 🙏🏻
@@68404
Your father and you are probably a whole Lotta alike, just know that he would not have shown you and taught you the things he did if he didn’t love you. It’s terrible to lose someone so early in life especially when you are a young man yourself. Just think about what and where you would be right now if your father had not taught you anything .
He taught you valuable information and that’s something no one can ever take away from you.
Having worked in a Chevrolet parts department in 1965 and '66, the 235 did not come with a drilled headbolt. When a customers car came in with the top end clacking, from lack of oil in the rocker shaft, the mechanic would come to the parts department and get a drilled headbolt and put it in the engine in the correct place and return oiling to the rocker shaft.
I recall a service note where it was necessary if you mix-and-matched head and block between different years, or sometimes between Canadian and American built versions. Early versions used a tube either outside the block or inside the lifter cover, others had drilled passages between the block and head.
Best video ever! Back in 1998 my 1985 Blazer motor broke the crankshaft. The repair guys said they could put in a used engine for $350 plus labor. I did not have that much money, so I decided to fix my engine at home. It took me 4 months and I was successful. The only thing I had was a book to explain to me what to do. There was no instant videos, no way to ask questions, nothing: you were on your own and I was pretty good at thinking about stuff. I bought an engine lift crane, engine mounting holder and every tool that I needed. Since I had the engine open, I decided to change the 6 cylinder cam shaft to a racing cam for $225 and added roller valve rocker arms. The biggest issue I had was the cylinders were all cut to 0.30" and not factory, but this was a factory motor. The bearings misalignment is what cause the failure and I needed to get a used engine block for $250. That is why my original pistols would not fit my new block! Back to the machinists to rebore to 0.30. That was only $150 for that. As I said: "I did not have $350 plus labor for a used engine" - I ended up spending $1100 total and I got a ton of tools and engineering smarts from doing it myself. The Blazer ran like a V8 after that! Was like a scalded dog after that. Fast and smooth. These days I can just look up RUclips and learn a fix for lots of things.
I was a teenager in the 90's. Imagine how the fox body craze would've been if we had all that information in our pockets.
I hear ya. I've done 90% of the work on all my cars, and RUclips has made it a lot easier after a mechanic friend moved. But you'd be amazed at how "professional" mechanics flip their shit about "EVERYONE IS A FUCKING RUclips MECHANIC THESE DAYS!" And then the same people will turn around and bitch "no one knows how to do anything anymore!"
I've never heard someone talk themselves out of money faster than an autobody guy I got an insurance estimate from to replace a door. I mean seriously, if you didn't charge an arm and a dick for turning some bolts I can do on a weekend with a video as guidance if need be, perhaps this wouldn't be an issue. Sorry you'd chose no money over some money for an ultimately easier job with faster turnaround.
Nice analysis
Just for future reference thirty thousands is written as such .030
From the decimal point on the right side, the first is hundred thousands, the second spot is
ten thousands and the last is one thousands.
I wasn’t trying to be a smart ass, I was just trying to keep people from thinking you were a dumbass lol
I’m sorry, I was an automotive machinist for at least 20 years.
Ah, for the days back when you could just go buy a physical copy of the factory service manual from either the manufacturer or a third party publisher. Nowadays you have to pay by the day just to access the info in some online database, and that's if they release info to the public at all.
I was in high school in 1970 and had a 54 Chevy, which was a 230ci. It was wore out enough that when I'd pull in to a gas station, which was full serve back then, I'd tell him to fill the oil and check the gas. They had bulk oil, 1 quart bottles, with a funnel screwed on and set up in a stand. I was trying to remember what all I did to it during my overhaul, but couldn't remember. Then when you pulled those "nippled" bearings off, I had a flashback. Ran great when I put it back together, and eventually added and Offenhauser intake for 2 one barrels, and a homemade split exhaust that was a butcher job, but it still worked. We beat that car so hard at the time. Broke the main shaft to the tranny about 5 times, replaced I don't know how many rear wheel studs, and to this day I can still see in my head how to take the rear end apart to pull the axles out. I could probably do it with my eyes closed. Broke the drive shaft once too, and since it was a torque tube, we had to replace the entire assembly. Ah....fond memories. LOL
50 years ago the doctor stood by and let me catch ours!
There is a thread to post life story's. Psst this isn't the place
I used to go to Thrifty's for reclaimed oil for my 1940 Chev, it created a cloud of smoke going downhill, good ol day's
My first was a 66 gmc with a 250 and top off the oil and check the gas was the way of the road for me too. Lol mystic jt8 seemed to last longer than anything else I ran in it.
I remember those bottles with the screw on spouts. We had a station with a pump that pumped bulk recycled oil. Paraffin base it read.
I do appreciate the way he does not bash on the prior rebuilders.
You never know what conditions the prior guy had to work under. Do it cheaply, or do it quickly, or can't get good parts, or must do some repair he's not getting paid for, etc.
He did thank Obama for some reason.
@@karlwithak. mistakes happen to everyone, even the best. Work should be assessed in totality, not by a single error. All the other work was correct, looked excellent, and was done to a high standard and quality save for a simple human error. It's shady AF to trash someones entire reputation over a single mistake when the overwhelming evidence points to that not being at all representative of their work.
Sign of someone who knows what they're doing in my opinion: with experience comes failure on the odd occasion, a guy that's been around as long as this guy has likely seen many mistakes made (and made some himself over the years).
Inexperienced gobshites tend to make the most racket about this stuff, because they've not had it happen to them YET so they think they're immune.
100% agree with you though, it's refreshing that he just stated the facts with no intention of dropping anyone in hot water.
@@karlwithak. you can say "terrible thinking" as much as you want, but it's just making you look like a massive cunt 🤷♂️
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll get back to learning from these guys instead of wasting time discussing people.
@31:15 "like catchin babies"...😂 funny you should mention that. My wife and I were tearing down a junkyard core 460 Ford getting it ready to go to the machine shop. It was winter, and the engine had obviously been sitting outside a while, as it had a bit of water in it. As we're knocking the pistons out, my "pure country girl" wife was catching them, along with a slosh of an oil sludge/water/ice slurry, and cracking jokes about "being a "midwife for a Big Block Ford"... "congratulations, it's a... yeah... a number eight piston! And with a rod like that it's definitely a boy!" Gotta love our country girls, eh?
Hahaha
🤣
"Did you get that, deary?" Monty Python.
I hope you got to keep her!!
@@billjacobs386 25 years and counting!
This gave me flashbacks to decades ago. I had a customer who wanted a custom built sbc stroker engine but wanted to do the assembly himself. I had a WELL known professional racer with an engine building business do all the work. The engine was sent to me and the customer picked it up in parts. He then changed his mind a month later. The engine builder was now fully booked so he had to take it to a local shop. They questioned EVERYTHING the builder had done and started making changes to a fully prepped block and rotating assembly. Almost the same as in this video it failed in 5 or 10 miles. They ground so much material from the block you could slide your finger between the rod and the block. Cause of death was untorqued rod bolts. What a waste of about $10k, almost nothing in the short block was salvageable.
Good to listen to a master craftsman , it is a rare thing . Thank you.
Yes getting old sucks but it's way better than not getting old!
Dang that’s a good one, I’m gonna steal it for when the whipper snappers call me old at work. I’m 36 😂
I agree I’m over 60 and I didn’t think about getting old it just showed up one day
@@beezlebub3955 36? Man, you're just a spring chicken.
@@youdandee1 Yes, I saw that too.
Getting old is better than "I'm here for a good time, not a long time".
I specialize in rebuilding these old stovebolt engines,it’s cool to see you guys finally working on one for the channel! That valve definitely seized up from those umbrella seals. In my years of experience with these the o ring seals are plenty and going with the factory valve guide clearance is best. My theory is because the oil breather is down low on the block unlike most modern engines where the breather is on the valve cover, a lot of the oil mist is going out the bottom of the road draft. Since the 235 suffers from poor oiling you only have the splash from the rockers to get to the guides which is limited. When it comes to shimming the crank I never use them. I’m sure you guys know but that’s from the old days of having your car fixed at the gas station and removing shims on a worn engine to tighten up the clearance on the crank. The oil filters were only a bypass setup and oil sludge was a problem back then so excessive wear plagued these engines. In my opinion if your crank needs shims removed as the engine gets older it’s wore out at that point and needs a rebuild anyways lol. I put the bearings in the mains without the shims and take my measurements and grind the crank accordingly. The book specs will throw you off since 57 and earlier have the shims factored in.
I’ve only worked on a couple of these engines and that’s exactly what I was going to say, my thought was that they would gum up easily without enough oil, and they need to not be too tight. I think these engines need to use a bit of oil past the guides. Also I’ve heard of guys trying to put in hardened exhaust seats in these 848 heads and hitting water.
😅😊😅😅@@dale116dot7
I got a fresh 235 and it’s scorching hot within 10min of run time, new water pump radiator thermostat etc. fresh rebuilt engine/head. Great coolant flow but she’s calling mother goose within 10min n I cannot figure out why. Thanks
Exhaust gasses in coolant passage. Head gasket, cracked head / block, etc.@@phildo39645
I'd say the real problem was the main bearings losing a bunch of oil pressure due to the mixed sizes. I had one crank that had 0.0004 too much clearance and it makes a difference in the oil pressure by about 10 psi idling.
I’m from that era. There were two versions of the 235. The thriftmaster & the powermaster. The thriftmaster had hydraulic lifters and a shorter stroke. The powermaster had solid lifters and a longer stroke. The umbrella seals were on those intake valves from the factory. The rocker could possibly bend a valve if the tappet end is not ground square to the rocker shaft. But watching you tear it down I think that cross hatch was to agressive on the new valve stems for running in new valve guides. We used to knurl the inside of a worn guide. To close clearence and retain oil. But new guides & new valves should not need either. The pinned bearings that required shimming were on pre 56 engines. The pinned bearings were full solid babbit. The newer bearings in 57 were tri-metal with locater on the ends of the bearing caps. That we are used to seeing on more modern engines.
All 235s had the same bore and stroke. There were 2 other engines in this family, the 216 and 261.
Me2! Looks like my '62 middle school auto shop project! Kept going to getting my Chrysler Corp "Dr. of Motors" cert from Orange Coast College, in '68, where my optional 283->302 project found its way into my '56 'Vette. Sold (after the racing clutch kept breaking driveshaft u-joints) that blueprinted (with knurled piston skirts & bearings -Mssrs. Mole & Anderson, RIP, made sure to have us try "everything"!) motor to a buddy who couldn't believe it couldn't be overrevved, so got drunk & passed out with the Weber dual quads held wide open. The only reason it failed (tho stationary), was bc of coolant boil-off, causing the crank to seize, throwing rod pieces every which way!
I have been a mechanic for 15 years and I would LOVE to go back to my apprentice days and apprentice under this guy.
The Cleaning Guy isn't old, he's seasoned.
Nah he's just a bit dirty, with a good cleaning he looks at least 10 minutes younger 😂
OMG 27:41 " There is the wrong way and then there's my way..." then at 27:57 "there you got one you can drill out..." Cannot quit laughing even though it was not the "wrong way". Love this stuff. You guys are absolutely a hoot.
I just wanted to get more experience removing broken fasteners lol
@@JAMSIONLINElol
It was perfect! What was that about your way being the right way?! 😆 Karma is a real B!
@@JAMSIONLINEone day you’ll figure out who’s doing it the right way. Hint, it’s the cleaning guy 😊
I really like that he knew right off the bat that it was grade 2 bolts used back then. Hardened bolts were a luxury back then and weren't the common bolt they are now.
I had a 250 straight 6 in my 1979 chevy Camaro and that thing lasted for years. It was super easy to work on, too.
Hi from Australia aprox 6 years ago I had a well known brand of rod bearings "not game to name them" when I opened the box of bearings all bearings were wrapped with top and bottom sealed together , on inspection I found each package contained 1 20 thou and 1 30 thou . I enjoy your videos 😊
I visited NSW for three months in 1979. Holden products were king along with Fords. You had a Ranchero 4x4 that I saw in Crescent Head caravan park. Delightful then in June-early Sept. No freeways, toll roads, ATM's weren't common. Petrol was about $1.65 Imperial gallon, meat pies and schooners of beer were cheap. Green grocers, butcher shops and bakeries. Nice.
I'm currently reschooling to become a mechanic, not engines spefically (Trucks, not pickups but trailertractor kind) and I've fallen in love with your channel. The way you work, speak and your knowledge is soothing and relaxing as heck!
Best of luck!
Don't.
“I just have to deal with you” hahaha. Dual meaning right there. You guys are great! Said with love with just the right amount of tease. I love watching these engine CSI episodes.
Haha thanks for watching!
I liked the part about who's going to catch the baby. Not me!! HaHa.
With the age of computers I'm really glad to see you have books
I'm only 50, but I still prefer to have a piece of paper in front of me. I went off into the generator field, but I don't find it too much fun trying to look at a shop manual on my work phone in the middle of a snowstorm on the side of some mountain lol
i bet those documents are hard to get online
What a nightmare project to deal with. I'm glad you guys are doing this one. Thanks for sharing this with us
I saw many a valve job done on 235 & 261engines in the 60s before unleaded gas and 200+ degree thermostats. The valves and the top of the pistons had so much built up carbon it took a while just to clean them before reassembly. If I remember correctly a valve job had to be done every 25,000 miles and rings and inserts minor overhaul at about 50,000. Plugs and points had to be replaced every 6000 to 10,000 miles depending on driving habits. My dad worked at a small town Chevy dealership from 45-69 and I from 67-69. I am happy to see this engine and truck kept as original as possible. By the way, this father and son team get along a lot better than me and mine did. lol
Right out of the gate I saw that road draft tube and had a physiological response, I could physically smell it in my head! Rolling down the freeway as a kid right as it started to rain and the smell of burnt oil vapor coming off the blacktop and out of those old road drafts. How funny lol. That's a smell you can't forget
I plumbed a puke can into my old Studebaker and removed that oil draft pos , works good now .😊
You are absolutely 100% correct don't use impacts on sending units. From experience I've broke one or two and now I always use a wrench or ratchet
About 55 years ago I toured an IHC engine building division in a factory. (one of 4 factories that weekend) I still remember the rusty blocks coming in and being told that they came from the casting works and lay in the back yard in the weather to "cure" for 3 to 5 years before being machined, assembled and put on to the vehicle assembly line. So to me the casting year sounds right for the vehicle model year.
I was just going "YES!!!!! New episode!!¡!" Clicked on it and 10 hours left????!!!!??? So sad, going to be thinking of engine machine work all night now, lol 😅😂😊
And I wake up and took awhile to get up and move and open RUclips after a few hours and 53 min late. Lol! Watching now :)
You sir are a man of focus, commitment & sheer fking will@@MikeHarris1984
Did you guys like install New Nano-Worrble Flangs in this Old Engine or Just leave the old ones in the Block(stock)? Am Very Curious if did.
You are so fortunate to be able to work with your dad especially your dad seemingly is such a super chill nice guy. Im 50 now and i had a child and wanted actually work benefits so I finally gave in and went to work for my dad in 97 and he was a electrical contractor (I worked other professions because just hated that type of electrical work) , he was the boss so I didn't work directly with him I only would see him for a bit in the morning and sometimes at quitting time so I didn't get to spend as much time with my dad as I would have liked to, then about a year later he died in 98 from the widow maker aneurysm. Even tho so many don't even get close to that much time I still felt cheated. It was funny he ran such a tight ship he actually almost fired me for wearing a grateful Dead shirt to work and not wearing a company shirt I was like wow won't do that again but anyway cherish every minute you get to spend time and work with your dad.
I consider myself lucky I still have my dad around, he suffered from an aneurysm a couple years back. He has had a few scrapes were he should have died but didn't.
@@MegaDirtyberty that's a blessing, I really hope there's no more problems 🤞
@@95Sn95 Likewise, he nearly died with the covid injections, he is a changed man because of them. I hope he is around for many many years yet.
As a 73 year old our 1963 Impala with three on the tree with this same 6 cylinder it’s amazing the engine stayed together but the 3 speed transmission exploded one time by immaculate explosion as far as our parents knew 😂 and my brother and I stuck with that story.
They didn't have 235 in 63
@@jameshester1450 It came with a 230 but somehow a hole got burned into # 2 piston so they had a 235 in stock and put it in. I would have preferred a 327 396 or a 409. A four speed Muncie with shifter on on the floor would be better but we would have really tore it up. A guy brought in a 69 red SS with 5 000 miles on it and ordered a new 1970. I grabbed that SS Camaro asap because I worked at the Chev garage. We got in a Z 28 that went under a truck and I bought it from the insurance company for $150 Engine, trans, rear axle and a tubular exhaust were perfect so you know where it all went. It made one hot SS Camaro. Lol
This is an incredible insight into what can go wrong with engine parts, thank you so much for letting us see this in so much detail! Casting numbers, measuring, checking the catalogs, so awesome!
You both are greatly blessed and it's so cool to see father and son working together... A lost art
Didn't you hear? Mr. Valve and Ms. Piston were totally smashing at the company party.
As my apprentice master would say [50 years ago] the valve made "passionate love" to the piston, which means that it's [censored]
@@KB10GLI usually say that the valve and piston got excessively intimate with each other.
They totally crushed it!
They were bangin' hard
I love dad and son working together, generational businesses are the best, as they have their name on the line every day.
I am 71 and there was something very soothing and nostalgic about watching this and seeing Jim referring to paper manuals for data instead of looking it up on line.. Also his care in checking the serial numbers to acquaint himself with what he was actually working on reminded me of workmanship that seems to be getting harder to find... the deliberate and steady pace of work and assessment were reassuring and seemed much more satisfying than the throw away culture we have currently... thanks for doing these videos.. I have subscribed...
I remember my first vehicle. 1960 Chevy Carryall. Cartridge oil filter, externally rotating distributor body (vacuum advance), 15 PSIG oil pressure. Remember changing main bearings in place. Finished at 3 AM before leaving on a 1000 mile trip!
Back in the day, drive home from work with a loose valve seat and pull the motor out of my Datsun 1200 ute. Second hand head from the wreckers quick bottom end rebuild, lap a few valves and bobs ya uncle all ready for work by 11pm. Ahhh those were the days.
There's a company out there that is doing frame up restorations of old trucks and modernizing them with newer engines ,power brakes and steering, a/c etc. I wish I could find the link. basically they are building sleepers.
@@davidanderson8469 That's Icon- look him up.
I am a marine mechanic and about 1990 I rebuilt a 4.3L GM based engine. The main bearing journals where turned to 10 under and that's the bearings I ordered from OMC which where reboxed Clevite bearings. The boxes we received where marked 10 under and apparently I didn't check the bearings themselves. I miked the crank to be sure the machine shop tagged the crank correctly but didn't plastigage the bearings so I didn't know the bearings where 1 under until I ran the engine on the floor prior to install. Low oil pressure and crankshaft thud could be heard. When I rechecked I found the bearings where in dead marked 1 under but the boxes I still had was marked 10 under. This time I miked the bearings and the crank. We have the check everyone's work ahead of us and it's getting worse. This week I had a Mercruiser distributor cap pre cracked from the center tower to one of the plug wire towers. It looked like it happened when the carbon brush was staked into the tower.
This is a great example for how I've approached any project/problem. #1- Always start with the simplest solution. #2 - Never trust the person before you.
I think someone at Clevite dislikes 4.3 engines..I rebuilt mine a year or so ago, my mains were supposed to be std, but they were actually .010's...ended up going thru the same engine (don't ask) about eight months later, this time the thrust surface was something like 40 thou too thick..
Not a huge problem, just dressed it to size on a surface plate...but MAN, I'm paranoid about measuring new parts now!
As a percentage of the population, the number of "gearheads" is dropping drastically, and these sorts of errors are one of the results. I'm a retired field service engineer for two very large diesel engines/equipment manufacturers, and this sort of thing is an epidemic out there.
Always trust but verify
Happened to me 40 years ago. Boxes marked one thing bearings were another. It was just 2 boxes out of eight though! Plastigage is your friend and always has been.
Your dad is a book wow you can learn so much from him .
I remember them motors too my 1952 had one them old motors in it long ago now . Yes I old too now
God bless y'all
Great old school mechanic! 235 is one of my favorite Chevy six cylinder engines. My Father owned a ‘60 Bel Air when I was a kid. Learned to drive on that old girl. Standard 3 speed column shift. Enjoyed the video!
Great episode! FYI...I have a 56 head on a 58 block and did not have shims. Also I did not have the drilled headbolt for rockershaft oiling. Found out this was only needed if you mixed very late with early blocks and heads. My oil passage was clogged after cleaning the block behind the plug inside the lifter access area. The hole needs to match the gasket and head. A 1/16 drill bit by hand worked out the carbonized junk then hit it with the air gun. Love your work.
Nice work, It's a good thing you checked that hole.
The earlier chevs (War time) had a copper pipe going right through the block from under the carby to the cover on the right, then an elbow with copper up to the rocker gear. I know because my Dads truck leaked coolant behind the cover. Ted from down under
I betcha tar based engine oil clogged that hole.
Im 14 i like and work on stuff like this like vintage chainsaws and vintage briggs and Stratton's and i love it keep it up
I started off on those things at 11-12.
Now I'm being told by the shops (that sell parts and service)
"The companies are telling me we officially stop providing replacement parts (like gaskets springs bushings, stuff to complete the project) for anything built before Year 2000.
@@RetroCaptainthere’s always eBay.
I first saw your videos on Facebook. I got a little curious and decided to find the full video on RUclips. I really appreciate the information and very detailed videos you guys put out.
It is an absolute pleasure to watch and learn from you sir. Having the huge amount of knowledge, though you are humble in your delivery is fantastic. Thank you!
I'm old school mechanic did alot of 235s . Yes the main cap shims ..ugh , hard to know after so many years of these engines what's what in terms of the shims or other changes by builders
And home builds . I definitely have found one bearing shell be INCORRECT in a new unopened bearing set box now and then .
Seems hard to believe it , but yes . Always check every shell
insert to confirm the size . Never forget your block oilpassage plugs on drivers side of the block along oil gallery !! I've had found they get left out 😮 and it's never a good result . I'd also not ... be crosshatching stems or other tricks especially on brand new valves . Finally GM did know what they were engineering with the valve stem seals . Stock works ...
Good stuff gentlemen .
As an Engine parts seller it wasn't uncommon to get Main and Rod Bearing with a mismatch bearing in it. It would drive the Engine builders bonkers. We couldnt check them because they were factory packaged. Federal Mogul was better than anyone in packaging but most people wanted the Michigan77 tri metal.
So can you line bore the mains so you don't have to use shims or does that cause more trouble than it's worth?
@@1967davethewaveyou can however each rebuild is a separate decision unless you are a remanufactoring business doing dozens of engines of that type a year. If you are planning that then you want consistency to save overall time doing a lot of hand fitting.
Cool video.
I like how you didn't go on and on bad-mouthing anybody - I hate that.
Trashing the last guy seems pretty common in the automotive business. No need for it. In the repair business things don't always go the way you want them to, and nobody is immune to it.
The mixed bearings and dirt in the engine, well that is on the last guy, but enough said.
John Z., I agree with limiting the bad mouthing. Thank you for stating that.
The point is that it doesn't help anybody, so it's unnecessary. Yes when it's a clear fault, point it out but bad mouth
is just negativity. Move forward
Exactly, just show what was found and move along. @@mazevx2451
Exactly. Just show what was found and move along. @@mazevx2451
@@johnz8210 I agree about the bad mouthing. Try to keep to the actual facts.
But regardless, an engine rebuild has to be done to a properly & thoroughly cleaned engine & internals. The scratching & damage to bearing shells after only 10 minutes of running is not a good sign at all, for whatever reason. But the residual crap the old fella found inside an apparently freshly rebuilt engine, plus the non-matching bearing shells, does not reflect well at all on the previous builder. It's human nature to be displeased with the previous builder.
What a great video Jim, Boy did I enjoy that. I went to Auto Tech school in 1967. My first engine was a Chevy Inline 6. We did not have any weirdness like this. My golly. The valve was so tight wow! Thank You so much for sharing. Hope you post the assembly. Thanks again, Dennis
Check your new parts. All of them. Every time. And don't ever "lose" the old parts until you're absolutely certain the new parts are good. Bought new calipers for my truck a couple weeks ago and found 3 of 4 caliper slide pin boots were torn from the factory. I guess Wan Hung Lo was in a row with the missus that day.
The umbrella seals on a 235 will cause the valves to seize up. It happened to me. Fixed the head. left out the umbrellas and no more problems. I had this happen in my shop.
848 head, 56-62 235. 261 used different casting, larger combustion chamber, steam holes drilled in head like a 400 chevy. The only exception, Pontiac of Canada. Pontiac of Canada used essentially the 56-58 small oil line 261 as their entry level motor. Those motors used the 848 head with factory holes. Valve cover for 59-63, used breather in center of valve cover. 55-58 the breather is at the front of the cover.
I grew up around mechanics and owners of this era and brand of vehicles, and saw a lot of parts pieces etc was quite young but still remember a few things.
They told me that (basically) the Pontiac engine and pickup truck/school bus engine back then were the same or would easily swap out and run fine.
The Chev only sedan engine was the 235 and the little brother to the Pontiac/Truck-Bus engine.
It was fairly common back then to find a GM with a different than original engine.
Also unless I was misinformed, the Pontiac engine was red, the Chevy was sea green or blue. I've seen sea green pickup and bus engine so I believe only the Pontiac was red.
They were all "leakers" oil leaks but easy as pie to get running
Personally I think the much later 250s were the cats meow.
Very Professional tear down with logic and thought placed into assessment of potential problem while respecting last company who rebuilt the engine. Great video
Loved the video! Back in 2018 I was rebuilding my subaru engine.. and I got king main bearings and they were boxed wrong, they put a regular bearing in the box when I needed 2 thrust bearings and there was only 1
The earlier 216 and 235 engines had babbitt bearings and I thought it was those that had the shims. It's been 30 years since I've messed with a stovebolt chevy so I can't remember.
It's definitely a 235 though as the 261's have steam holes in the head/deck like a 400 chevy.
I really enjoyed the forensic analysis of the failure in the engine. That comes from experience you will not read in a book. Also, compliments on a very clean shop
You hit the nail on the head, that is from misspackaging, as a parts interpreter I've seen so much of this since COVID, to the point that we check all customer order's for part accuracy inside the packaging before contacting them to tell them they've arrived. With off the shelf parts we check as we sell them. I've seen starter motors that are perfect except wrong cogs, alternators with incorrect pulleys and just about anything else you can think of! 😂😂😂
Rebuilt a 4.2 2F toyota straight 6. Meticulously cleaned before rebuilding. During first drive the valve train started clacking so headed home and pulled the valve cover. Had three stuck valves that I could, luckily, lube and tap and they became unstuck. Pulled the pushrod assembly, removed the rockers and pulled the end caps off the pushrod tube. The only thing I didn't clean before...
I just ran parts cleaner through the oiling holes. When I removed the end plugs the hollow shaft was full of carbon and sludge. Took a 12 gauge shotgun brush, cleaned, flushed, installed new plugs and ran good as new. Definitely could be the umbrella seats or just a sludged up rocker tube.
I got lucky.
That valve thing reminds me of an F350 460 4V that got sabotaged with sugar in the gas tank. 3 intakes stuck, push rods fell out and 1 of the lifters popped out of it's bore. I took it apart and tasted the goop on the valve stems...yea, it was sweet. Looked at rear gas tank filler neck and there was still sugar sitting there. Wild that sugar could do that. Seems like a lot of carbon in that engine for 10 miles.
I remember reading that sugar would not dissolve in gasoline. If it was gasahol, that probably would dissolve the sugar.
i had some neighbours that i think were stealing petrol /gas from my car.. I bought a scrap car for spare parts but I mixed as much sugar that would dissolve in 1 gallon of petrol and tipped it in the tank..a couple of days later their car bonnet/hood was up for a week
Some of the Chevy 6 cyl. (1953 and earlier) has babbit bearings and a 15 psi oil pump. The the shims had to be removed as the babbit wore out. The oil pan had trays that the were filled by the oil pump and scoops on the rod ends to oil the bearings as they rotated. In 1954 they changed to insert bearings and a 45 psi oil pump. Make sure you have the correct oil pump. Learned this the hard way.
"Oil Dippers" aka "Splash lubrication".
I'm thinking with today's more uniform lubricants the old dipper engines would go longer without needing teardown.
It’s real great to watch you guys work,keeping it friendly yet immersed %100 in the project,always looking for the clues of failure and building your way back to a quality running engine.
new guy here .. i just wanted to say how pleased i am with the inspection process on this tear down !! a proper diagnosis to find the root of the problem .. well done Sir"s!!!!
i grew up in gm dealerships doing engines among other stuff. then my own shop for 44 years now. doing my own machine work (boring, surfacing, head work...) for jobs in shop. glad to see i'm not the only one wearing out hammer handles taking pistons out haha
It is nice to see father/son work together in its daily job. I am a mechanic with 40+ years of experience and all I've learnt was from my father, no training courses, only my father's teach and reading A LOT of Service Manuals and technical information. All my best memories in life are from when my father and I were working together in the workshop. I will never forget those days. Keep doing your great job guys. 👍👍
Your right that umbrella seal was part of the problem
I rebuilt one of those about 30 years ago. It had been rebuilt before and was bored .040 oversize. It had so much wear that it was .060 at the top of the bore. I ended up getting a set of pistons from a JC Whitney close out sheet that were .080 oversize. Only cost $15. But the rings cost me $110. Ran great when it was all back together.
In the late 80's I worked for Opel in Germany. Just a small family owned shop and I was an apprentice. One of the older customers brought their old Mercedes in to have the drive train freshened up. Nothing wrong with it, just age and lots of mileage. We pulled the engine, transmission and rear end out of the car. The tranny went to the tranny shop, along with the rear end. I was one of the crew rebuilding the engine. When we pulled one of the valve covers off, first thing we saw was a set of rockers missing. Then we pulled it the rest of the way apart to find the piston and rod were missing as well! This was a one owner car, with many miles on it. Somehow it left the factory without one of it's pistons in the early 70's! How it went hundreds of thousands of kilometers and nobody had ever noticed the lack of a piston, I'll never know. You'd think an oil fouled sparkplug would have been a hint. It did leave with all 8 pistons and 16 rockers, though! Strangest engine rebuild I ever was a part of.
Permanent cylinder deactivation! Amazing that no-one noticed the rough-running... Maybe they told themselves they're all just like that?
@@tamberp Believe it or not, it ran smooth enough to not notice. They just never knew about the power loss.
@@picklesontheroad ...that's amazing!
I bet the owner loved the additional power his car had. 😁
No rod=No oil pressure. No piston=low power & very noticable vibration. No rocker arms=lifters would have come out of the bores. ????
Our machine shop always pre lubes everything and runs engines for break in
Plus always use marvel mystery oil in fuel helps lubricant everything and
Valvoline 30 VR1 racing oil high zinc break in
Great video thanks for posting
Ours never had anything to prelube. Not until I made a set up to do it right. Before I started working there,they had a couple fail before they even made it out the door. I figured I’d put an end to that. It’s easy to do now and there’s no excuse not to. Cost $30 dollars to make.
@@gregpenner2876 i agree plus wrong kind of valve seals I bet engine was assembled with just oil instead of thicker break-in lube that stays in place over long storage
Before installing on our older engine rebuilds I like to run on engine stand a few cycles
And check everything and certain situations we will install who ever built that guys engine
Was in a rush didn't take precautions and many mistakes made .. keep up the great work
Thanks for posting awesome videos thanks 👍
I'd never let a machine shop put my engines together. I've caught too many errors in machine work.
@@quagmiredavis4117uh do you think 5 thousandths too much clearance on the mains might have had something to do with lack of oil to the valve train???
@@Bryan-Hensley our family machine shop 1931 when we opened
Never any issues everything 💯 checked and re checked 👌
Plus specialty and antique engines run on our break in stands
3 different cycles and yes some just aren't good
My last few years before I retired, I measured everything. I found off centered, water pumps, misaligned, oil, holes, odd sizes from the factory on crank journals with different size bearings I virtually lost trust in everything, which was irritating when I would not install things. My employer was often irritated.
These old six cylinder Chevys got the nick name stove bolt Chevy from the screws rather then bolts that held the side cover and the valve cover on.. Great video.. I really enjoy watching your videos as you get into specs that other videos would not include.. You two work together wonderfully.. Cherish your relationship.. My Pop taught me a lot about these old stove bolt chevys.. I still have a doodle bug I built when I was 14, and now I have a 51 two ton that is all original.. It even has the factory head liner in it.. 235 with a four speed and a two speed rear..
I was told by ARP to not use ultra torque on anything other than ARP studs due to torque values being changed. If it calls for engine oil, always use engine oil (according to arp)
I trust them with that advice, they make a damn good fastener.
The calm demeanor and simple videos are what made me subscribe. All of the craziness is not needed and as I get older, I am disgusted by it.
People these days don't seem to be able to take in information unless it is presented as entertainment.
I watched close to half this video and will finish watching later. Fun to watch, better than anything on TV. Watching two guys working on an engine in a calm and informative way is as good as it gets.
Once had a set of OEM Case bearings for a diesel. All were packaged as STD, marked as STD, all correct part on the boxes and shells, but one upper main shell was 0.010US, set the crank in the block and it rocked on the center main.
LOL "I just have to deal with you" I love it, Again you just can't always trust straight out of the box. I bet a lot of people wouldn't have caught that at tare down, they just would have thrown the bearing away. Great job.
Another great video! Jamie, please cherish this time with the cleaning guy. It's worth it in the long run. I hope you keep killing it!!
Love seeing all the equipment you have. Peterson and KI. My dad worked for them back in the late 70's and 80's.
Very nicely done. Shims were used prior to 1953 on passenger cars and 1954 on trucks. Thanks for a very entertaining video!
I think the "Stovebolt Chevy" nickname came from the earlier 216 engines which had the oil pans secured with pan head screws. The 216's were also affectionately referred to as "Babbitt Beaters". Enjoyed the show!
I was always told it also applied to the pan head bolts that hold the lifter gallery cover on the side of the block. If you look up 'stove bolt'. That is the proper name of a pan head bolt.
From 1941-1953 the 235 was also a babbit beater, and nearly identical to a 216 externally.
I only started hearing that term about 15 years ago.
@@jamesbosworth4191 When I worked at a small salvage yard in the late 70's the nicknames were well established. A large hammer and cold chisel were used to pop the screw heads off when cleaning the motors for cast iron.
Listening to you two pick and talk back and forth makes me miss my Pops that much more he taught me how to never be afraid to fix it myself. He also gave me a lifelong love of anything that bleeds oil and drinks distilled dinosaur juice, lol. That being said keep it up. I just recently found your channel so I unfortunately missed the "Four Strokes" workpad, would have love to added that to my computer desk. Thanx again love the channel.
I would also double check those Cam bearings. Man I love engines.
Great video! Thanks for posting!
Gotta love the Dad humor. This is a great episode. Your father is a wealth acknowledge he makes it look so easy. I also like when your dad said catch the piston, you’re gonna have to catch a baby soon and you said I’m not catching no baby lol.
The sound of that air actuated valve spring compressor sure brings back fond memories. I never polished stems on new valves, but did polish lots of used valve stems. I liked to use a piece of worn-out emery cloth. Given that the previous builder seemed to have done a decent job with stem-to-guide clearance, I wonder if they just missed oiling the one on assembly and then coupled with the umbrella seals (which, BTW, I'd never run both the o-ring type and umbrellas together, one or the other, or preferably PC seals) led to this premature failure. Nice work, guys!
GM in Aus used to fit what they termed "fruit salad bearings" on the assembly line, the upper and lower shells were different. They used this to regulate the bearing oil clearance on the mains.
@@MrHitchikerOz Gidday mate how's it goin? Another ossie here lol! Hey surely mixing up she'll sizes is gonna put undue stress on the crank isn't it? Unless I spose if the larger shells are all on the bottom or all on the top? Not something I'd ever do. But I'm no expert. I've only ever rebuilt a 1972 iron head 250 out of my XA falcon & my mates worked 308 (now 339) out of his HZ sandman van.
Great episode - I learned a lot! Love the "detective work", and I am looking forward to seeing how it finishes out. Thanks!
I did one of those some years back. Had the machine work done at Harbor Engine in Corpus Christie fantastic work. Engine ran beautifully. After I put it together.
Another very interesting teardown. I watched my Dad pour new babbit bearings on an old 216 about 70 years ago.
I remember in the late 70's working in a con rod shop, getting these 235 rods in when the original babbitt was still in them. Id get a 55gal barrel full of them & I'd machine out the babbitt, notch them for inserts, cap them, & then resize them. A few years ago!
Guys, just happened on to your channel, saw you were working on a 235ci stayed and watched. Like many we have memories of these engines. Mine was of my 1st edition 55 - 5 window. Coming home from work one day 55mph and all of a sudden a loud bang clatter, clutch in, pulled over and looked under to find a puddle of oil. Later found pieces of the cam no bigger than lobe width😢. Anyways, really enjoyed watching you guys work, no nonsense, no clowning around 🤡 or bashing the other builder… Just earned a new subscriber
Thanks for sharing 👍🇺🇸
Lou from Miami, Florida
Fascinating tear down diagnosis both! Thank you so much 🙏! 👌
Thanks for watching!
These guys are like forensic archaeologists.
Very impressive. Thank you.
I was always told that same thing about using a impact wrench on a sending unit. I'll use one on them if I know it's defective but if i'm reusing it i'll use a regular wrench or a socket
IF IT WAS ME, I WOULD KNURL THE GUIDES, AND REAM FOR .002 CLEARANCE ON INT. AND EX. AND ONLY USE THE O-RING STEM SEALS. THOSE VALVES ARE SO LONG IT TAKES A WEEK FOR THE OIL TO GET DOWN THE STEM ANYWAY. DID A LOT OF THEM BACK IN THE DAY. KNURL IS STILL THE BEST WAY IN MY MIND!! GOOD LUCK
34:53 or there abouts, you say you forgot about the pins? That's ok, you forgot more than I know. lol I so enjoy this channel. Thank you for bringing us along.
I did a small block 400 25 odd years ago and when I opened up the package of main bearings it was a 10-10 crank and one of the main shells upper and lower was standard.
Ever since then I have ball Mike and measured every single bearing that I've put in an engine ever since we cannot control packaging as mechanics/machinists
The reason those engines were called a stove bolt was because of the bolts used on the valve cover were like the bolts used in wood stoves.
Just when I thought I couldn’t love this channel anymore, y’all uploaded a video on my favorite engine. The one in my 56 Chevy 210 is just like this one.
Haha awesome! Trying to keep a fun variety coming!
First engine I built was a 56 210 235 6 cylinder. It was burning oil when bought. Probably was run without oil by the medical student who had it. It was 1966 so parts were plentiful. Re ringed it and put new bearings. One journal had a little bearing transfer. Cam had one flat lobe but it ran great after swapping for a new one.
You guys are great for not trashing the previous builders. Yes "we're all human". Great analytics!
Hey GM used under and oversize bearings. At least in the 70s. Once had a 202 Holden with a 9thou rod bearing. The rest were std and 001. 308 Holden with 003 004 right down the crank. And yes it had poor oil pressure. 'Heap of 350s with woppy main tunnels and they uses oversize back bearings.
We did a splash and dip 53 Chev 6 ton truck engine. It was siezed, had a cracked head and rusted the piston in. Beat it out and got a s/h head and piston!! Went for a good few years after just doing small loads.