Cedar Fair not addressing the ride reliability at Cedar Point is a major issue with me. These rides, though excellent, were prototypes. At some point, the constant downtime on Maverick, Millennium Force, and Steel Vengeance really needs to be addressed. If parts of SteVe need to be redone, such as a truss lift hill and steel supports rather than wood in the highest stress areas will help reliability, it should be done. Maverick is constantly going down and I hear its due to sensor issues. Millie is supposed to receive a refub next year, but this really should have been done a long time ago. Also, please for the love of coasters, redo that horrible line queue in Steel Vengeance. That traffic jam at Metal Detection, the slowness of it, and the dispatches with partly empty trains at some points is not good.
SteVe was not a prototype at all. The prototypes for it are the two in the Texas Six Flags parks. SteVe came like 6-7 years later those two (Iron Rattler and New Texas Giant) were widely deemed successes.
@@jandrew1994 SteVe was indeed a prototype, just probably not in the way you are thinking. Remember, Cedar Fair paid RMC to develop all new trains for the ride, and they came out heavier than expected and caused significant issues with the braking system. This was also RMC's first hyper coaster and lessons were certainly learned. RMC would not use an all wood lift hill after this, favoring the truss system. I also see more of an emphasis on metal supports as well. SteVe gives the Cedar Point carpentry team a lot of issues. The ride opens late all the time due to general maintenance taking a huge amount of time on it.
They need to do something about Mav’s queue as well. When it is the fast lanes turn to board, the trains are never full because people can’t scan their wrist bans fast enough
I wish Orion was as big of mistake as you say it is because last Saturday the danm fast lane line was 20 minutes. If so many people hate stop riding it so I don’t have to get fast lane just to ride it like I am for all of haunt.
Cedar Fair & Cedar Points biggest mistake was going with Zamperla to reimagine Top Thrill Dragster because of their low bid and going with their untested Lightning Trains. People will be talking about this mistake for a long time !
Installing trim brakes on Gemini, Adding trim brakes to Mean Streak. Converting Mean Streak to Steel Vengeance, Closing Disaster Transport, Closing Geauga Lake, Closing Paddlewheel Excursions, Closing Snake River Expedition, Closing Antique Cars, Closing Forbidden Frontier, Closing Snake River Falls. Having a show themed toward and promoting a ride that has only operated six days so far this season. Hiring Zamperla. Not paying their employees what they deserve and retracting on the promised $20/hour for returning covid era employees. Not promoting deserving employees and showing favoritism to those who do not deserve what they are given. Installing cookie cutter rides. Having a stage for shows that crowds block the midway. No Lusty Lil's show for two years. Live Entertainment Cuts. Not inviting Midnight Syndicate back to HalloWeekends. Cedar Point needs a large indoor entertainment venue like Good Time Theater once was.
My honorable mentions biggest mistakes: Not having a glass shield over line of the original Top Thrill Dragster where the August 2021 incident happened. Closing Geuaga Lake when they still could've still ran it as a more traditional amusement park option for locals. Not waiting a few more years before removing Vortex at Kings Island so they'd end up deciding to just give it the Premier Rides treatment. Having a contract with B&M to temporarily not allow any B&M Invert built with-in a certain range of Cedar Point since they later every major park with-in that range.
@MrSRArter Out of the biggest mistakes that you mentioned, the one that I think was the biggest mistake that Cedar Fair did was closing Geauga Lake. In my opinion, Six Flags did an amazing job managing the park.
Iirc Vortex at Kings Island was more of a sudden closure since it came up that it had some structural issues. There was no way they would've been able to keep it up the way it was for a few years, unless they just left it SBNO.
Cutting back on maintenance is a huge mistake. Hersheypark takes this seriously, and when a ride does break down, it's usually back up in a short amount of time.
That's probably why all 3 of their Intamins were opened during my visits. Cedar Fair, please take a lesson from Hershey. Some rides will not be reliable by any means but if they were run and treated the way Hershey does, they'd probably have half as much downtime.
If KI had given Vortex the Loch Ness Monster treatment and had treated it as their new for 2020 coaster, they would’ve built their Giga a few years later. In that case, Orion probably would’ve been way bigger and better.
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Not working with Intamin and Rmc is just stupid. They are inovative,and push limits. Sure, they have their issues, but their coasters are unforgettable and thrilling. Cedar Fair needs to get it together, now that they practically own all of America's biggest amusement parks.
I agree. Closing Geauga Lake, and doing it without the grand send off the park deserved, will always be a travesty to those of us who live in the Cleveland area. I greatly miss the park.
You can't honestly tell us that having all 3 parks in Ohio couldn't work for them. I know six flags kind of ran that place into the ground, but it COULD have been turned around. Geauga Lake was my first home park, and I loved having a park like that a half hour away. Greatly missed. Also, GL was almost as old as CP. The lost history thrown away when they closed the park 😢
Cedar fair tried to save it. Six Flags destroyed it by making it too big, too fast without building hotels. It did well for one season until everyone realized there's nowhere to stay in Aurora. Nobody came back. Then Cedar fair swooped in knowing that Geauga Lake is meant to be a small family park. They knew it was too big for its britches and had to get rid of some of the rollercoasters. It was necessary. But by then everybody just assumed Cedar fair was just trying to dismantle it and close it because it was competition. Look it up, this is really how it went down.
Vertigo at Cedar Point, Dinosaurs Alive at nearly all their parks, Forbidden Frontier at Cedar Point, Buying Geauga Lake (though it was doomed from the start), and Christmas in the Park at Cedar Point.
As for Knott's, their primary competition is Disneyland, NOT Magic Mountain or even Universal Hollywood. They're a 55-acre park, so building a coaster longer than California Screamin' / Incredicoaster was always unlikely. Silver Bullet had to be creatively crammed in and was already quite intense. They didn't urgently need another thrill ride over 200 feet tall either, with Xcelerator as their most popular coaster. They had installed a WindSeeker model, but after an incident where riders were stuck for hours, relocated it to Worlds of Fun. So, improving themed family rides like Timber Mountain, replacing Perilous Plunge with a boardwalk expansion to compete with Paradise Pier on ticket price, adding an interactive dark ride, and retracking GhostRider so it wasn't rougher than Big Thunder and Matterhorn combined, were all worthwhile choices for the OC market. And Hangtime allowed Knott's to beat DCA in height and inversions while removing an old Boomerang that did nothing to differentiate Knott's from competitors.
I'm pissed off about Top Thrill 2. Was always skeptical about them using Zamperla. What really upsets me is the lack of communication from the park. It's become extremely apparent that the reason they have been so tight-lipped is so people like me wouldn't cancel their trip to Cedar Point. Why have integrity when there is money at stake, right? I booked my trip in April just for TT2. Have already been to the park 4 yrs ago and have all the credits with the exception of the wild mouse. Have several other parks that I have not visited across the country. I am traveling all the way from Florida. Leave on Sunday. Will be at the park on Monday and Tuesday next week. Held out hope all summer long that "it wouldn't be an all summer thing" according to the ceo of the park. I'm still going to have fun and enjoy their amazing lineup. But I can assure you that I would have waited until 2025 and visited dollywood or Kings Island instead if I knew TT2 wasn't going to open. I am a business owner and father of 2. Only get to take 1 to maybe 2 trips a year out of Florida to ride coasters with my brother, who is also an enthusiast. Just like any other enthusiast, you want new credits. Cedar Point definitely put a bad taste in my mouth the way they have handled the whole thing. Just my two cents for what they are worth, which obviously isn't much. Love your channel. I look forward to new future content. Cheers
@dreams2reality410 I actually feel really sorry for you. Like you, I also visited CP this year only for TT2 to not be open. In my case however, I had none of the credits and I only lived 6 hours away so it was a short drive. Never thought about how it might affect others. I do agree with you about the money thing though. I like to joke that closing TT2 was legit genius so that people come back two years in a row and give CP 2x the money.
It's easy to say in hindsight that Dorney should have received a new thrill coaster sooner, especially when you compare it to CGA. But at the time of the Paramount Parks acquisition, Great Adventure had added El Toro and Kingda Ka back to back. Hersheypark had added Storm Runner in 2004 and was working on Fahrenheit. Nothing new that Dorney could have added would have enabled it to compete as a thrill park - Steel Venom from Geauga Lake is about as good as they could get. And **acquiring** 5 major parks at once, doubling their portfolio somewhat unexpectedly, put enormous pressure on them to invest specifically in the **new** properties, bringing their coasters up to CF's level. Also, the Lehigh Valley was hit harder by the recession than Silicon Valley was. Cedar Fair saw a lot of potential in CGA due to the tech sector's growth in the 2010s. So they got a ground-up GCI that otherwise would have gone to Dorney, and Dorney received CGA's inverted boomerang. Sadly, CGA didn't receive the expected returns, so hyper plans were shelved in favor of a RMC single-rail prototype. It's an unfortunate turn of events, but I don't blame Cedar Fair for focusing heavily on the former Paramount Parks at the expense of DP, VF!, and WoF
I have no idea why they stopped working with RMC. Not only did RMC give CF possibly the world’s best coaster, Steel Vengeance, but also RailBlazer. I understand the downtime, but I am honestly thankful for that. Thanks to that downtime, I got 3 rides on SV in two days with a maximum 30 minute wait combined.
I was told that DP has issues with the township gives them issues with building new coasters and as of Knotts I was told that the hyper/giga the neighborhoods had concerns about noise
It’s dumb for Thunder Road’s removal. Minebuster at Canada’s Wonderland is right next to the waterpark and they havent done anything about it. Plus, Minebuster is my least favorite coaster.
I would look to the new Cedar Fair/Six Flags "Corporate Director of Creative Development" - Ken Parks. Ken Parks took the place of 25 year industry veteran Rob Decker, the man behind ALL your favorite Cedar Fair coasters of the last 20 years. He retired in 2019, and Ken Parks took over. Orion was under Ken Parks tenure as head of the creative development department. Fury 235 was Rob Decker's "Magnum Opus" his legacy's masterpiece. He loved a big hill and big drop. Ken Parks is still new and has to prove himself, so expect less risk as he doesn't have the pull and confidence that Rob had earned and operated under. Have you seen the debacle that is "the new camp Snoopy at knott's?" that's Ken Parks. He probably approved that bank going right next to the front gate at Knott's as well. Damn shame.
These are fine and more missed opportunities vs mistakes but that's fine. In a missed opportunity context I love a ton of these - makes sense! However, I imagine mistakes are much more financial-related than capacity concerns or not building a ride earlier. Water rides are expensive and limited in many ways. CGA is not better than Discover Kingdom, it's equal or maybe slightly worse - won't be able to tell if that's a mistake for another decade or so. Makes even more sense now with chains merging. Things like Son of Beast, Wind Jammers, low season pass costs, Geauga Lake, etc are all 10x bigger mistakes than majority of these. (sorry not trying to sound rude or anything just pointing out this is probably titled incorrectly).
The fact that the original Dragster is not #1 is an issue with the list. #1 mistake according to Dick Kinzel as his time as CEO for Cedar Fair. Your list is a little more fan based than business based. I doubt Kings Island looks at Orion as a mistake. It is reliable and is a people eater. Pretty successful overall no matter what you, I, or anyone else thinks of the ride. Top Thrill 2 might be second on the list to compound the first problem. The removal of Volcano was a business decision based on the operational cost of the ride. I do agree with your point about Thunder Road based on how the other wooden racing coasters were handled. And yes the conversion of Hurler to and RMC should be on the list. The ride isn't as popular in terms of wait times as Fury 325, ThunderStryker, Copperhead Strike, Afterburn or Nighthawk for that matter. An RMC of that ride would be far more popular in terms of ridership. All they have to do is look at the ridership numbers with Twisted Timbers. And if they make Beast 2.0 that should automatically go to #2.
@@randomdefender1532 it wasn’t successful from a business perspective because of the downtime and issues it caused. And the former CEO basically says that.
Cedar Fair is more likely to work with RMC than Intamin (because they were less of a maintenance headache), but either company is probably not far from constructing new Cedar Fair coasters because of the merger
I think Brandon's list is pretty spot on honestly. I was at BackbeatQue eating meal plan wings outside on the veranda at the end of operating day, around 8:30pm on 05/10/2024, TT2's last operating day. Facing south, watching TT2 go and go and go. A piece of something could have flown into my eye from that distance. But the thing that stood out the most was the old Intamin part of the ride, the tophat and its supports, were swaying very tenuously like the World Trade Center Twin Towers right after the planes hit them on 9/11. It was almost as if part of that structure could have cracked wide open and fallen apart, not only wrecking the ride forever but potentially killing dozens including guest riders, employees, and innocent bystanders like myself guzzling down my second of three large barbecue chicken wings out in the partially shaded canopy next to the midway. I wish my home park got a mention, but few people seem to care about Michigan's Adventure. More Michiganders go to CP anyways.
#2 wouldn't have happened if (a) Cedar Fair and Intamin had patched their relationship or (b) Cedar Fair demolished TTD completely and built a new ground-up ride on that spot (a Mack extreme spinner or a Vekoma tilt coaster would have worked wonders for CP and would've brought in legions of GP)
Some of these mistakes were made because the cost of fixing would have been too great. The mountain of Volcano was structurally unsafe. There were also issues with Thunder Road that had to be addressed to keep it running. We have seen River Raft tides go away as well, due to being old and outdated, for example needing new operating systems. But it seems Cedar Fair has no problems throwing money at Top Thrill. By the time it is running again, the price tag will be around 100 million, considering initial investment, what they had to pay in the lawsuit, maintenance costs, and refurbishment,
Orion was a mistake based on the facts explained. Canada's Wonderland = Giga to compliment their hyper. Carowinds = A bigger Giga to Compliment their hyper. Kings Island = Here is another hyper to add to the other hyper. The trend should have continued with Orion; but I imagine Cedar Fair didn't want to give Kings Island anything major that would over-shadow Cedar Point
Leviathan is literally 6 feet taller than Orion like what are you people talking about Orion is more expensive than any coaster cedar point ever built and you guys are seriously bitching because it’s not a few feet taller out of 300 feet? Get the hell over it😂
I do agree with you somewhat about Dorney Park not receiving a new coaster installation that was well overdue. However, depending on the park's overall profitability, that factor will affect when they will receive their next installation.
Eliminating water rides from Carowinds dry side and tearing down Thunder Road are both awful! I can agree on that. There have been overtures between Cedar Fair and Intamin in at least some capacity because they did ask Intamin for a bid on TT2, so I would think that will eventually be a possibility. I will say that although Intamin and RMC built respectively my #1 and 2 coasters, they are not the only manufacturers out there. More competition is a good thing, in other words. Orion is amazing though, even though it's short. And actually, because of that and lightning fast dispatches, it's a capacity monster and it's a great marathon ride. For Top Thrill 2, fixing it up is 100% the right thing to do and we're acting awfully entitled if we take any other route with it. I got five great rides on TT2 and once it's going again it'll still be just as incredible. The fact that they're being proactive rather than reactive with this problem is what I'm focused on and why my stance is what it is.
I remember reading that Thunder road had some pretty major structural issues and that it'd need a pretty massive refurbishment if they wanted to keep it up. Financially it probably just made no sense from their perspective to keep it around.
The prior 2 or 3 seasons, they were massively refurbishing the coaster (I believe GCI or CCI was working on it?) by taking it apart piece by piece, fixing any structural issues during the process and putting it back together section by section.
@@markvolpe2305 Yeah I found out about that recently and it's really confusing to me. I wonder if them getting the tax breaks around the same time led to them deciding to just tear it down and replace it instead since they can afford to now.
For me, their biggest mistake was not turning Son of Beast at Kings Island into what possibly could've been one of the best RMCs in the world. Banshee is a very fun ride and it's understandable why they removed it entirely (which they told me was because of too much bad publicity), but I still believe that would've been a guaranteed success in the end.
Since Six Flags and Cedar Fair Merge, I can see them working with both again. I do think they will work with RMC little more likely than Intamin, but I do think they have to buried the hatchet and work together. (Maybe RMC the Boss when the time is right).
Cedar Point removing rides and replacing them with restaurants is my biggest issue. This isn't necessarily a mistake, but a missed opportunity. Choosing a B&M wing coaster over an S&S 4D. I get the reliability factor, but a 4D would have been amazing and fit in much better with the high thrill coasters. I sigh whenever I see Gatekeeper and think what could have been.
S&S built Eejanaika in 2006 and Dinoconda in 2012. You don't hear about any issues with those coasters. Steel Curtain is a prototype and was built in 2019. We don't know what the issue is and everything is speculation. Just because Kennywood had bad luck doesn't mean Cedar Point would have 6 years prior.
@@colestaal5686 it's a whole different company under Sensei. Both of those were built before the takeover. Let's talk about reliability since Sansei bought them.
If CP went with a 4D instead then it would have been designed and manufactured before the Sansei acquired S&S. S&S coasters aren't too reliable aside from the free spins post acquisition. No argument there and parks would be smart to avoid buying other models. 4Ds could be okay as long as the process remains the same. Current times are irrelevant though.
Getting rid of the Classic Royal Fountain at Kings Island and 'updating' it, which took away all of its charm, gone are the big water jets that you could feel on International Street while walking by just a little bit, and the pedestals, now it's just okay but it's nothing like what it used to be like.
Not doing much with my home park Michigan's Adventure since purchasing it. Remember, original owner Roger Jourdan was planning to add a hyper coaster to the park prior to Cedar Fair buying it in 2001, probably from Morgan more than likely. But the only coaster added to the park since Cedar Fair's purchase was the relocated Thunderhawk, the Vekoma SLC. And that was back in 2008 (I'm not counting Woodstock Express since that coaster was Big Dipper rethemed for the Camp Snoopy area). Hopefully, the new Six Flags will add something. My ideas include a Premier Sky Rocket II, which doesn't take up a lot of space, or if Carowinds gets rid of Vortex, Michigan's Adventure could scoop it up and have B&M add floorless trains to it, or get Patriot from CGA if, God forbids, they go ahead with the original plan to close that park.
4:58 Having 3 would do nothing, maybe if they had another launch midway through then the blocks could be set up different, but there isn’t. The problem is the amount of people per train, not the amount of trains
I think alpen fury was a mistake in the compassity point of view but I am happy a large launch coaster is going to be close to me as it is something i am able to ride as i have nobody to bod buddy up with to take me on road trips as i have to be escorted around as a blind person if you can understand. Now there is one mistake your not thinking of. Canada's wonderland removed zumba floomb. now that was more of a paramount mistake but Wonderland can receive hot summers especially July and water rides are popular here even though it is seasonal. I would like to see Wonderland get some in park water rides even if they are mixed into the maine park. They would do well to add a water ride like carowinds is doing or a mack power splash and like i said else where add capability to shut off the water flow during the cold part of the year in the early sproi spring or fall. they took that zoomba floomb out and oput time warp in now i know that was a paramount mistake but still it was a mistake. If that ride was a matence issue they could have found a different type of water ride.
2 trains on Alpen Blitz? WTF? So... it's going to be on 1 train operations for part of the year during maintenance? That's nuts..... It should have like 4 or 5 trains.
The layout doesn't have enough block zones for 4 or 5 trains. They could have made it 3 trains by adding a separate unload station. The only reason Millennium Force is 3 trains is because of the unload station. It was designed as a 2 train coaster.
@@collinparsons3363 They could have totally designed it to do that though IF they told manufacturer that's what they wanted. Which is a no brainer considering they're low capacity trains. It's insane they didn't do that. But yeah, I totally get it can't in it's current layout. At least, I'd assume it can't. Does it even have a midcourse?
With a lot of the parks that don’t get large investments aka Doney , KD etc it’s because the local governments have restrictions of it and don’t approve of stuff
Although a Giga at Knott's would be great, I'd be happy with a Hyper that has greater track length than Excelerator or a RMC to replace the awful Coaster Rider. But a Soap Box Racing Coaster would probably receive better reception in the Airfield area - Bring back the Airfield Theme over the Boardwalk. Just burn the Hurler down. Worst coaster ever. Or RMC it ... but it is ridiculous that Carowinds lacks a Woodie, a hybrid or and a couple water rides minimum. A run for your life Charlie Brown raft race could liven things up.
Yo what about vf..not get a coaster we. will be now.the longest in chain..not to get coaster...💯💯👌👌.. hashtag give us a Dr dobical clone...or something larger 🎤🎤🎤
Yup! Six flags had to many parks to properly manage thats why they went to $#*t and they.both decide that its better to double the portfolio..horrible idea
#1: Destroying one of the greatest flat rides ever concieved: the defunct Tomb Raider The Ride at Kings Island. Screw you Cedar Fair for destroying something so incredible and unique.
I can understand Intamin but RMC has been fairly reliable (with the exception of Lightning Rod). What happed with Steel Vengeance and Twisted Timbers was a few hiccups which almost every ride has but both are up and running. RMC's before LR also had very little problems.
Cedar Point should of gone with Intamin for TT2! Now they're probably kicking themselves for going with Zamperla! No other new ride has had such a HUGE failure just a week into the operating season! Potential for the title of biggest roller coaster failure ever? Sadly, yes
Building Magnum is a very bad answer. I think that ride has been successful unlike the original Dragster which has been a headache for the organization for over 20 years.
While you made a couple good points, the rest of the points you made are just petty. You almost sound like your whining, almost unbearable to watch. You want to make a BIGGEST Mistake video? Id suggest looking into Seaworld Parks and Entertainment, forgive me, I mean United Parks and Bullshit
1. Wrongfully and unlawfully banish Lake Erie life styles for promoting their new ride tt2.
Ouch, really?? Haven't heard that yet. They gave so much free hype to the park!
Honestly yea they were just pissed that a super fan was covering Cedar Point news better than the actual staff
that channel isn't even around anymore. I wonder if they got sued. what a shame
@@dindog22 If they did sue them then Six Flags should be boycotted.
@@dindog22it still exists but is now a military channel.
I desperately wish kings island would get an RMC
Cedar Fair not addressing the ride reliability at Cedar Point is a major issue with me. These rides, though excellent, were prototypes. At some point, the constant downtime on Maverick, Millennium Force, and Steel Vengeance really needs to be addressed. If parts of SteVe need to be redone, such as a truss lift hill and steel supports rather than wood in the highest stress areas will help reliability, it should be done. Maverick is constantly going down and I hear its due to sensor issues. Millie is supposed to receive a refub next year, but this really should have been done a long time ago. Also, please for the love of coasters, redo that horrible line queue in Steel Vengeance. That traffic jam at Metal Detection, the slowness of it, and the dispatches with partly empty trains at some points is not good.
SteVe was not a prototype at all. The prototypes for it are the two in the Texas Six Flags parks. SteVe came like 6-7 years later those two (Iron Rattler and New Texas Giant) were widely deemed successes.
@@jandrew1994 SteVe was indeed a prototype, just probably not in the way you are thinking. Remember, Cedar Fair paid RMC to develop all new trains for the ride, and they came out heavier than expected and caused significant issues with the braking system. This was also RMC's first hyper coaster and lessons were certainly learned. RMC would not use an all wood lift hill after this, favoring the truss system. I also see more of an emphasis on metal supports as well. SteVe gives the Cedar Point carpentry team a lot of issues. The ride opens late all the time due to general maintenance taking a huge amount of time on it.
They need to do something about Mav’s queue as well. When it is the fast lanes turn to board, the trains are never full because people can’t scan their wrist bans fast enough
Orion was proof to me that CF will never let Kings Island have an elite, top 10 coaster.
Hearing a rollercoaster at a park is one of the greatest things! That's such a bad reason
I wish Orion was as big of mistake as you say it is because last Saturday the danm fast lane line was 20 minutes. If so many people hate stop riding it so I don’t have to get fast lane just to ride it like I am for all of haunt.
Cedar Fair & Cedar Points biggest mistake was going with Zamperla to reimagine Top Thrill Dragster because of their low bid and going with their untested Lightning Trains. People will be talking about this mistake for a long time !
Closing Geauga Lake and gutting a beautiful, traditional old park.
Part of that is on Six Flags. Same way what they did to Astroworld and Kentucky Kingdom, set those parks up to fail.
Installing trim brakes on Gemini, Adding trim brakes to Mean Streak. Converting Mean Streak to Steel Vengeance, Closing Disaster Transport, Closing Geauga Lake, Closing Paddlewheel Excursions, Closing Snake River Expedition, Closing Antique Cars, Closing Forbidden Frontier, Closing Snake River Falls. Having a show themed toward and promoting a ride that has only operated six days so far this season. Hiring Zamperla. Not paying their employees what they deserve and retracting on the promised $20/hour for returning covid era employees. Not promoting deserving employees and showing favoritism to those who do not deserve what they are given. Installing cookie cutter rides. Having a stage for shows that crowds block the midway. No Lusty Lil's show for two years. Live Entertainment Cuts. Not inviting Midnight Syndicate back to HalloWeekends. Cedar Point needs a large indoor entertainment venue like Good Time Theater once was.
1. fire intamin
2. fire RMC
3. hire zamperla
4-9. repeat the first three twice
10. neglect and/or not sell michigan's adventure, my home park
My honorable mentions biggest mistakes:
Not having a glass shield over line of the original Top Thrill Dragster where the August 2021 incident happened.
Closing Geuaga Lake when they still could've still ran it as a more traditional amusement park option for locals.
Not waiting a few more years before removing Vortex at Kings Island so they'd end up deciding to just give it the Premier Rides treatment.
Having a contract with B&M to temporarily not allow any B&M Invert built with-in a certain range of Cedar Point since they later every major park with-in that range.
@MrSRArter Out of the biggest mistakes that you mentioned, the one that I think was the biggest mistake that Cedar Fair did was closing Geauga Lake. In my opinion, Six Flags did an amazing job managing the park.
Iirc Vortex at Kings Island was more of a sudden closure since it came up that it had some structural issues. There was no way they would've been able to keep it up the way it was for a few years, unless they just left it SBNO.
Cedar Fair had every intentions of running 3 parks in Ohio, but they couldn’t make money with Geauga Lake.
Cedar fairs bought Geauga Lake purposefully to close it.
Cutting back on maintenance is a huge mistake. Hersheypark takes this seriously, and when a ride does break down, it's usually back up in a short amount of time.
It's not so much on cutting back it's finding skilled younger maintenance people that want to work and take the place of people retiring
That's probably why all 3 of their Intamins were opened during my visits. Cedar Fair, please take a lesson from Hershey. Some rides will not be reliable by any means but if they were run and treated the way Hershey does, they'd probably have half as much downtime.
Not investing into Kings Dominion until the 2020s.
Orion really could have been a world-class coaster if they went with Intamin 😢
It’s a good coaster man😭this is so nitpicky
Sorry but Orion is way better than Millie.
If KI had given Vortex the Loch Ness Monster treatment and had treated it as their new for 2020 coaster, they would’ve built their Giga a few years later. In that case, Orion probably would’ve been way bigger and better.
What? 350 feet and 8000 feet of track? Did guys really think they were going to do that?😂
Removing the full-size riverboat Cotton Blossom from Worlds of Fun as well as the Henrietta gate.
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CP deserves TT2 to be a lawn ornament for the locker fiasco...and SteVes queue
Yeah there's no excuse for the locker situation. Just a terrible customer relations decision.
Not working with Intamin and Rmc is just stupid. They are inovative,and push limits. Sure, they have their issues, but their coasters are unforgettable and thrilling. Cedar Fair needs to get it together, now that they practically own all of America's biggest amusement parks.
Went to ride volcano, where my dad said we would ride it next time because the line was an hour. Next time was a week later and it never reopened.
If number one on this list isn’t destroying the world’s largest amusement park we riot
well well well
I agree. Closing Geauga Lake, and doing it without the grand send off the park deserved, will always be a travesty to those of us who live in the Cleveland area. I greatly miss the park.
You can't honestly tell us that having all 3 parks in Ohio couldn't work for them. I know six flags kind of ran that place into the ground, but it COULD have been turned around. Geauga Lake was my first home park, and I loved having a park like that a half hour away. Greatly missed. Also, GL was almost as old as CP. The lost history thrown away when they closed the park 😢
Cedar fair tried to save it. Six Flags destroyed it by making it too big, too fast without building hotels. It did well for one season until everyone realized there's nowhere to stay in Aurora. Nobody came back. Then Cedar fair swooped in knowing that Geauga Lake is meant to be a small family park. They knew it was too big for its britches and had to get rid of some of the rollercoasters. It was necessary. But by then everybody just assumed Cedar fair was just trying to dismantle it and close it because it was competition. Look it up, this is really how it went down.
@@nickgarrison4018 permanently closing half the park and parting out the rest is the opposite of how you save a park
Vertigo at Cedar Point, Dinosaurs Alive at nearly all their parks, Forbidden Frontier at Cedar Point, Buying Geauga Lake (though it was doomed from the start), and Christmas in the Park at Cedar Point.
As for Knott's, their primary competition is Disneyland, NOT Magic Mountain or even Universal Hollywood. They're a 55-acre park, so building a coaster longer than California Screamin' / Incredicoaster was always unlikely. Silver Bullet had to be creatively crammed in and was already quite intense. They didn't urgently need another thrill ride over 200 feet tall either, with Xcelerator as their most popular coaster. They had installed a WindSeeker model, but after an incident where riders were stuck for hours, relocated it to Worlds of Fun.
So, improving themed family rides like Timber Mountain, replacing Perilous Plunge with a boardwalk expansion to compete with Paradise Pier on ticket price, adding an interactive dark ride, and retracking GhostRider so it wasn't rougher than Big Thunder and Matterhorn combined, were all worthwhile choices for the OC market. And Hangtime allowed Knott's to beat DCA in height and inversions while removing an old Boomerang that did nothing to differentiate Knott's from competitors.
Top Thrill 2 better be on this list.
Yep I agree!!
I'm pissed off about Top Thrill 2. Was always skeptical about them using Zamperla. What really upsets me is the lack of communication from the park. It's become extremely apparent that the reason they have been so tight-lipped is so people like me wouldn't cancel their trip to Cedar Point. Why have integrity when there is money at stake, right? I booked my trip in April just for TT2. Have already been to the park 4 yrs ago and have all the credits with the exception of the wild mouse. Have several other parks that I have not visited across the country. I am traveling all the way from Florida. Leave on Sunday. Will be at the park on Monday and Tuesday next week. Held out hope all summer long that "it wouldn't be an all summer thing" according to the ceo of the park. I'm still going to have fun and enjoy their amazing lineup. But I can assure you that I would have waited until 2025 and visited dollywood or Kings Island instead if I knew TT2 wasn't going to open. I am a business owner and father of 2. Only get to take 1 to maybe 2 trips a year out of Florida to ride coasters with my brother, who is also an enthusiast. Just like any other enthusiast, you want new credits. Cedar Point definitely put a bad taste in my mouth the way they have handled the whole thing. Just my two cents for what they are worth, which obviously isn't much. Love your channel. I look forward to new future content. Cheers
Even SFOG is better about communicating to everyone the reasons why GA Surfer is getting pushed back to 2025 than CP. How ironic is that
@dreams2reality410 I actually feel really sorry for you. Like you, I also visited CP this year only for TT2 to not be open. In my case however, I had none of the credits and I only lived 6 hours away so it was a short drive. Never thought about how it might affect others. I do agree with you about the money thing though. I like to joke that closing TT2 was legit genius so that people come back two years in a row and give CP 2x the money.
It's easy to say in hindsight that Dorney should have received a new thrill coaster sooner, especially when you compare it to CGA. But at the time of the Paramount Parks acquisition, Great Adventure had added El Toro and Kingda Ka back to back. Hersheypark had added Storm Runner in 2004 and was working on Fahrenheit. Nothing new that Dorney could have added would have enabled it to compete as a thrill park - Steel Venom from Geauga Lake is about as good as they could get.
And **acquiring** 5 major parks at once, doubling their portfolio somewhat unexpectedly, put enormous pressure on them to invest specifically in the **new** properties, bringing their coasters up to CF's level. Also, the Lehigh Valley was hit harder by the recession than Silicon Valley was. Cedar Fair saw a lot of potential in CGA due to the tech sector's growth in the 2010s. So they got a ground-up GCI that otherwise would have gone to Dorney, and Dorney received CGA's inverted boomerang. Sadly, CGA didn't receive the expected returns, so hyper plans were shelved in favor of a RMC single-rail prototype. It's an unfortunate turn of events, but I don't blame Cedar Fair for focusing heavily on the former Paramount Parks at the expense of DP, VF!, and WoF
I have no idea why they stopped working with RMC. Not only did RMC give CF possibly the world’s best coaster, Steel Vengeance, but also RailBlazer. I understand the downtime, but I am honestly thankful for that. Thanks to that downtime, I got 3 rides on SV in two days with a maximum 30 minute wait combined.
I was told that DP has issues with the township gives them issues with building new coasters and as of Knotts I was told that the hyper/giga the neighborhoods had concerns about noise
It’s dumb for Thunder Road’s removal. Minebuster at Canada’s Wonderland is right next to the waterpark and they havent done anything about it. Plus, Minebuster is my least favorite coaster.
I say it nearly every day,
I love your work in every way.
I would look to the new Cedar Fair/Six Flags "Corporate Director of Creative Development" - Ken Parks.
Ken Parks took the place of 25 year industry veteran Rob Decker, the man behind ALL your favorite Cedar Fair coasters of the last 20 years.
He retired in 2019, and Ken Parks took over. Orion was under Ken Parks tenure as head of the creative development department.
Fury 235 was Rob Decker's "Magnum Opus" his legacy's masterpiece. He loved a big hill and big drop.
Ken Parks is still new and has to prove himself, so expect less risk as he doesn't have the pull and confidence that Rob had earned and operated under.
Have you seen the debacle that is "the new camp Snoopy at knott's?" that's Ken Parks. He probably approved that bank going right next to the front gate at Knott's as well.
Damn shame.
Number 3 might be one of the most nitpick problems ever
These are fine and more missed opportunities vs mistakes but that's fine. In a missed opportunity context I love a ton of these - makes sense! However, I imagine mistakes are much more financial-related than capacity concerns or not building a ride earlier. Water rides are expensive and limited in many ways. CGA is not better than Discover Kingdom, it's equal or maybe slightly worse - won't be able to tell if that's a mistake for another decade or so. Makes even more sense now with chains merging. Things like Son of Beast, Wind Jammers, low season pass costs, Geauga Lake, etc are all 10x bigger mistakes than majority of these. (sorry not trying to sound rude or anything just pointing out this is probably titled incorrectly).
The fact that the original Dragster is not #1 is an issue with the list. #1 mistake according to Dick Kinzel as his time as CEO for Cedar Fair. Your list is a little more fan based than business based. I doubt Kings Island looks at Orion as a mistake. It is reliable and is a people eater. Pretty successful overall no matter what you, I, or anyone else thinks of the ride. Top Thrill 2 might be second on the list to compound the first problem. The removal of Volcano was a business decision based on the operational cost of the ride. I do agree with your point about Thunder Road based on how the other wooden racing coasters were handled. And yes the conversion of Hurler to and RMC should be on the list. The ride isn't as popular in terms of wait times as Fury 325, ThunderStryker, Copperhead Strike, Afterburn or Nighthawk for that matter. An RMC of that ride would be far more popular in terms of ridership. All they have to do is look at the ridership numbers with Twisted Timbers. And if they make Beast 2.0 that should automatically go to #2.
Orion’s fast lane line was 20 minutes on Saturday and it was built 4 years ago😂
@@JJJJ-he8bz I was at kings island this past weekend and never waited more than 15 using the fast lane on Orion and most of the time it was under 5.
But og TTD gave CP something unique popular and the first of a kind so it was somewhat successful while it was operating.
@@randomdefender1532 it wasn’t successful from a business perspective because of the downtime and issues it caused. And the former CEO basically says that.
@@alantrotter2077 I still wouldn't say it was a mistake as it helped CP become a major park and destination.
Cedar Fair is more likely to work with RMC than Intamin (because they were less of a maintenance headache), but either company is probably not far from constructing new Cedar Fair coasters because of the merger
I think Brandon's list is pretty spot on honestly.
I was at BackbeatQue eating meal plan wings outside on the veranda at the end of operating day, around 8:30pm on 05/10/2024, TT2's last operating day. Facing south, watching TT2 go and go and go. A piece of something could have flown into my eye from that distance. But the thing that stood out the most was the old Intamin part of the ride, the tophat and its supports, were swaying very tenuously like the World Trade Center Twin Towers right after the planes hit them on 9/11. It was almost as if part of that structure could have cracked wide open and fallen apart, not only wrecking the ride forever but potentially killing dozens including guest riders, employees, and innocent bystanders like myself guzzling down my second of three large barbecue chicken wings out in the partially shaded canopy next to the midway.
I wish my home park got a mention, but few people seem to care about Michigan's Adventure. More Michiganders go to CP anyways.
Mistakes Cedar Fair has made: Not having unlimited money and not having unlimited staff.
#2 wouldn't have happened if (a) Cedar Fair and Intamin had patched their relationship or (b) Cedar Fair demolished TTD completely and built a new ground-up ride on that spot (a Mack extreme spinner or a Vekoma tilt coaster would have worked wonders for CP and would've brought in legions of GP)
Some of these mistakes were made because the cost of fixing would have been too great. The mountain of Volcano was structurally unsafe. There were also issues with Thunder Road that had to be addressed to keep it running. We have seen River Raft tides go away as well, due to being old and outdated, for example needing new operating systems. But it seems Cedar Fair has no problems throwing money at Top Thrill. By the time it is running again, the price tag will be around 100 million, considering initial investment, what they had to pay in the lawsuit, maintenance costs, and refurbishment,
Removing the 25 cent souvenir combs in the men's rooms. 😅
Former Cedar Fair CEO, Dick Kinzel said that Top Thrill Dragster was the worst business decision he has ever made.
Orion was a mistake based on the facts explained. Canada's Wonderland = Giga to compliment their hyper. Carowinds = A bigger Giga to Compliment their hyper. Kings Island = Here is another hyper to add to the other hyper. The trend should have continued with Orion; but I imagine Cedar Fair didn't want to give Kings Island anything major that would over-shadow Cedar Point
Leviathan is literally 6 feet taller than Orion like what are you people talking about Orion is more expensive than any coaster cedar point ever built and you guys are seriously bitching because it’s not a few feet taller out of 300 feet? Get the hell over it😂
I do agree with you somewhat about Dorney Park not receiving a new coaster installation that was well overdue. However, depending on the park's overall profitability, that factor will affect when they will receive their next installation.
Rode hurler yesterday. Cant even tell they did any track work last offseason.. that thing was rough.
Three biggest mistakes: Top thrill 1, Top thrill 2, and coming next year Top thrill 3
So hold up. Closing six flags worlds of adventure ISN’T ON THE LIST. But Orion being to short is. I can’t take you seriously
I think this list is referring to what cedar fair had/has done with the paramount parks that they acquired, and not necessarily about six flag parks
Eliminating water rides from Carowinds dry side and tearing down Thunder Road are both awful! I can agree on that. There have been overtures between Cedar Fair and Intamin in at least some capacity because they did ask Intamin for a bid on TT2, so I would think that will eventually be a possibility. I will say that although Intamin and RMC built respectively my #1 and 2 coasters, they are not the only manufacturers out there. More competition is a good thing, in other words. Orion is amazing though, even though it's short. And actually, because of that and lightning fast dispatches, it's a capacity monster and it's a great marathon ride. For Top Thrill 2, fixing it up is 100% the right thing to do and we're acting awfully entitled if we take any other route with it. I got five great rides on TT2 and once it's going again it'll still be just as incredible. The fact that they're being proactive rather than reactive with this problem is what I'm focused on and why my stance is what it is.
I remember reading that Thunder road had some pretty major structural issues and that it'd need a pretty massive refurbishment if they wanted to keep it up. Financially it probably just made no sense from their perspective to keep it around.
The prior 2 or 3 seasons, they were massively refurbishing the coaster (I believe GCI or CCI was working on it?) by taking it apart piece by piece, fixing any structural issues during the process and putting it back together section by section.
@@markvolpe2305 Yeah I found out about that recently and it's really confusing to me. I wonder if them getting the tax breaks around the same time led to them deciding to just tear it down and replace it instead since they can afford to now.
Cedar Fair should've gone with Intamin with TT2 instead of Zamperla. Would've made more since cause Intamin knows that ride inside & out.
Their biggest mistake was changing dragster into this abomination. It had it problems but at least it would have been running.
Agreed
How’s that possible that people visit Canada’s wonderland over Cedar point?
Local market. Toronto is a massive metro
I don’t know if it’s true but I am hearing that RMC is having unreliable issues and that’s why SF or CF doesn’t want to work with them 😢
Dorney Park deserves the Love
Canada's Wonderland not getting a B&M invert bothers me
For me, their biggest mistake was not turning Son of Beast at Kings Island into what possibly could've been one of the best RMCs in the world. Banshee is a very fun ride and it's understandable why they removed it entirely (which they told me was because of too much bad publicity), but I still believe that would've been a guaranteed success in the end.
Since Six Flags and Cedar Fair Merge, I can see them working with both again. I do think they will work with RMC little more likely than Intamin, but I do think they have to buried the hatchet and work together. (Maybe RMC the Boss when the time is right).
Cedar Point removing rides and replacing them with restaurants is my biggest issue. This isn't necessarily a mistake, but a missed opportunity. Choosing a B&M wing coaster over an S&S 4D. I get the reliability factor, but a 4D would have been amazing and fit in much better with the high thrill coasters. I sigh whenever I see Gatekeeper and think what could have been.
Ask Kennywood about S&S
S&S built Eejanaika in 2006 and Dinoconda in 2012. You don't hear about any issues with those coasters. Steel Curtain is a prototype and was built in 2019. We don't know what the issue is and everything is speculation. Just because Kennywood had bad luck doesn't mean Cedar Point would have 6 years prior.
@@colestaal5686 it's a whole different company under Sensei. Both of those were built before the takeover. Let's talk about reliability since Sansei bought them.
If CP went with a 4D instead then it would have been designed and manufactured before the Sansei acquired S&S. S&S coasters aren't too reliable aside from the free spins post acquisition. No argument there and parks would be smart to avoid buying other models. 4Ds could be okay as long as the process remains the same. Current times are irrelevant though.
@@colestaal5686 then why bother saying "I get the reliability factor" then go on to defend the reliability?
RIP to Rip Roaring Rapids and thunder road. I grew up going to carowinds and riding those rides
Finally someone addresses how short the ride is Orion
@@danielshuttleworth1804 I305 is even shorter and Leviathan is like 100 feet longer
Getting rid of the Classic Royal Fountain at Kings Island and 'updating' it, which took away all of its charm, gone are the big water jets that you could feel on International Street while walking by just a little bit, and the pedestals, now it's just okay but it's nothing like what it used to be like.
Not doing much with my home park Michigan's Adventure since purchasing it. Remember, original owner Roger Jourdan was planning to add a hyper coaster to the park prior to Cedar Fair buying it in 2001, probably from Morgan more than likely. But the only coaster added to the park since Cedar Fair's purchase was the relocated Thunderhawk, the Vekoma SLC. And that was back in 2008 (I'm not counting Woodstock Express since that coaster was Big Dipper rethemed for the Camp Snoopy area). Hopefully, the new Six Flags will add something. My ideas include a Premier Sky Rocket II, which doesn't take up a lot of space, or if Carowinds gets rid of Vortex, Michigan's Adventure could scoop it up and have B&M add floorless trains to it, or get Patriot from CGA if, God forbids, they go ahead with the original plan to close that park.
I feel like Cedar Fair just pushed those two companies a little far (but at least we got a bunch of new elite coasters from it)
4:58 Having 3 would do nothing, maybe if they had another launch midway through then the blocks could be set up different, but there isn’t. The problem is the amount of people per train, not the amount of trains
One of the biggest mistakes was them ending Winterfest originally.
Thank god it’s better and bigger now
I think alpen fury was a mistake in the compassity point of view but I am happy a large launch coaster is going to be close to me as it is something i am able to ride as i have nobody to bod buddy up with to take me on road trips as i have to be escorted around as a blind person if you can understand.
Now there is one mistake your not thinking of. Canada's wonderland removed zumba floomb. now that was more of a paramount mistake but Wonderland can receive hot summers especially July and water rides are popular here even though it is seasonal.
I would like to see Wonderland get some in park water rides even if they are mixed into the maine park.
They would do well to add a water ride like carowinds is doing or a mack power splash and like i said else where add capability to shut off the water flow during the cold part of the year in the early sproi spring or fall.
they took that zoomba floomb out and oput time warp in now i know that was a paramount mistake but still it was a mistake.
If that ride was a matence issue they could have found a different type of water ride.
2 trains on Alpen Blitz? WTF? So... it's going to be on 1 train operations for part of the year during maintenance? That's nuts..... It should have like 4 or 5 trains.
At least they could have three trains (one in storage and maintenance)
The layout doesn't have enough block zones for 4 or 5 trains. They could have made it 3 trains by adding a separate unload station. The only reason Millennium Force is 3 trains is because of the unload station. It was designed as a 2 train coaster.
@@collinparsons3363 They could have totally designed it to do that though IF they told manufacturer that's what they wanted. Which is a no brainer considering they're low capacity trains. It's insane they didn't do that. But yeah, I totally get it can't in it's current layout. At least, I'd assume it can't. Does it even have a midcourse?
3rd train wouldn't help capacity on a launch coaster except for maintenance reasons if a train went down.
With a lot of the parks that don’t get large investments aka Doney , KD etc it’s because the local governments have restrictions of it and don’t approve of stuff
StAy PoSiTiVe
* is consistently extraordinarily negative *
Ever since the Lake Erie lifestyles ban it’s been downhill for TT2!!
These are largely recent complaints I feel
How the hell is Shoot the Rapids not on this list? Thats the ride thst ruined Cedar Fairs relationship with Intamin
Although a Giga at Knott's would be great, I'd be happy with a Hyper that has greater track length than Excelerator or a RMC to replace the awful Coaster Rider. But a Soap Box Racing Coaster would probably receive better reception in the Airfield area - Bring back the Airfield Theme over the Boardwalk.
Just burn the Hurler down. Worst coaster ever. Or RMC it ... but it is ridiculous that Carowinds lacks a Woodie, a hybrid or and a couple water rides minimum. A run for your life Charlie Brown raft race could liven things up.
Haha CF is king of mistakes these days 😂
Yo what about vf..not get a coaster we. will be now.the longest in chain..not to get coaster...💯💯👌👌.. hashtag give us a Dr dobical clone...or something larger 🎤🎤🎤
4:09 😌
Merging with Six Flags is an even worse mistake than any of these things… even TT2
Yup! Six flags had to many parks to properly manage thats why they went to $#*t and they.both decide that its better to double the portfolio..horrible idea
Honourable Mention: KI Closing Vortex
#1:
Destroying one of the greatest flat rides ever concieved: the defunct Tomb Raider The Ride at Kings Island. Screw you Cedar Fair for destroying something so incredible and unique.
that cedar fair doesn't work with RMC and Intamin anymore has reasons. So its because of the bad reliability, bad operationability and high costs.
I can understand Intamin but RMC has been fairly reliable (with the exception of Lightning Rod). What happed with Steel Vengeance and Twisted Timbers was a few hiccups which almost every ride has but both are up and running. RMC's before LR also had very little problems.
AGREE!! Every single word!
Cedar Point should of gone with Intamin for TT2! Now they're probably kicking themselves for going with Zamperla! No other new ride has had such a HUGE failure just a week into the operating season! Potential for the title of biggest roller coaster failure ever? Sadly, yes
Can we get an rmc and an intamin at kings island please, that is all!
1. Building magnum 2. Not going with intamin for the new dragster 3. Removing volcano and fire hawk
Building magnum? What would be the first hypercoaster then??
Building Magnum is a very bad answer. I think that ride has been successful unlike the original Dragster which has been a headache for the organization for over 20 years.
@@Goat_Girl_Gwen but its a awful ride should have went with a better manufacturer for it
@@BlaineBasilwhat better manufacturer was there than arrow in 1989? You’re crazy. And a lot of people like magnum.
@@BlaineBasil what better manufacturer was available to them in 1989? Togo was the only other company making coasters at that scale at the time.
Not building a polar coaster at cp...
Rode, luved it, hate it😂
While you made a couple good points, the rest of the points you made are just petty. You almost sound like your whining, almost unbearable to watch. You want to make a BIGGEST Mistake video? Id suggest looking into Seaworld Parks and Entertainment, forgive me, I mean United Parks and Bullshit
Orion sucks