How to Play Music in 9/8
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Unless you grew up in the Balkans, 9/8 and other time signatures are hard to feel! However, identifying and entraining with non-isochronal pulses will help you 1) become a better musician and 2) hopefully maybe be a better person by being able to connect with a different culture.
LISTEN TO BIRD ON THE WING (and other sungazer tunes on our new EP!)
spoti.fi/2MaHbb9
PAPER’S CITED
www.pnas.org/c... (Newborns detect beats)
bit.ly/2M8BoTx (Measuring Aksak rhythms in Transylvania)
bit.ly/2QOIVY7 (human specificity of beat synchronization)
GENERAL BALKAN FOLK DANCE RESOURCES
folkdancefootn...
sfdh.us/encyclo...
babayagamusic.c...
www.revolvy.co...
David Bruce Composer’s video that mentions Cameroonian 9/8 (among other things!)
• Radiohead and the Rhyt...
Irish Slipjig (9/8)
• 6 TIME WORLD CHAMPION ...
• 3 Slip jigs - Planxty ...
9/8 Dances Used -
• Sareni Tsourapi - Χάλκ... (Sareni Tsourapi) Greece
• Болгарский танец хоро ... (Biala Rosa) Bulgaria
• Грънчарско хоро (potter’s dance) Bulgaria
• deksi band niska banja (Niška Banja) Serbia
• Video (Niška Banja) Serbia
• Antikristos Karsilamas... (Antikristos Karsilamas) Greece
• Formatia Live - Schioa... (Schioapa) Romania
• Oyun havası karşılama ... (karşılama) Turkey
• Sareni Tsourapi - Μακε... (Sareni Tsourapi) Greece
Meshuggah, OG’s of the isochronal entraining element
• Meshuggah - Demiurge (...
(⌐■_■)
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⦿ Check out some more of my music ⦿
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Peace,
Adam
I used a word to describe Roma musicians, and it might be a slur in other contexts, but I'm directly quoting from this peer-reviewed music cognition paper.
bit.ly/2M8BoTx
It seems like that word is used non-pejoratively when used to describe music or musicians, especially in scientific and music cognition literature, but I might be wrong about that. I'd love to hear from any Romani folk what they think.
Yes
It's cool dude, in the Balkans, PC is only for the week :) Jokes aside, it's pretty normal to call Gipsy music and musicians Gipsy(ciganin, ciganski, in Serbian and most of Balkan languages), and most of them refer to themselves in that regard. You can always find exemptions, but, these days, everything is politicised. Personaly, I think it is more practical to use the term Gipsy, especially in Romania (or referring to Romanian music), which has the highest Roma(Gipsy) population rate, to avoid technical confusion in science(it's easier to differentiate between Roma and national Romanian folk music). Love the "repetition legitimises" bit, and, overall, you show a really good insight in Balkan traditions. Жив био :)
In French the words for "Gypsy" ("manouche" or "gitan") are slurs unless used to refer to elements of the Roma culture. I expect it's the same in other languages?
@@SteelSkin667 I'm English, in my experience anyway, gyspy can be a slur in some contexts but, in others, especially music, it isn't. For example, it's quite normal to talk about gypsy jazz.
Thank you for acknowledging this, Adam!
repetition legitimizes
repetition legitimizes
Repetition legitimizes
R E P I T I T I O N L E G I T I M I Z E S
repetition legitimizes
Obviously melon doesn't think so
Adam Neely’s videos are like the Vsause of music and I love it
HAHA I was thinking the exact same thing!
Perfectly described!
Why is it so hard for people to spell Vsauce?
as in i have no idea what hes talking about but im entertained
Music sauce
Hi Adam, love your videos. Fun fact about Dukas's ‘The Sorcerer’s Apprentice’. Even though it is felt in 9/8 (and conducted in 9/8), the score is actually written in 3/8. Dukas was paid by the measure and by writing the piece in 3/8 instead of 9/8, it makes the piece 3x as long for 3x the $$$.
That's fricking genius. If I was him, I would've screwed 3/8 and just would do 1/8. Because musicians are broke.
That’s hellla funny omfg
@@lifeontheledgerlines8394
Omg, you both had me laughing out loud. Thank you, needed that today.
@@joeltarnabene5026 I'm glad I made someone happy. Comedy is a wonderful thing, it's a shame when people get overly upset over jokes.
Anyways, have a nice day! Or night, depending on your timezone, but you get my point.
🤣
Best science channel
Best science channel
Best science channel
Best science channel
Best science channel
Best science channel
Legitimizing it
Paul Jr You are doing great work with comments like this, sincerely.
Hey Vsauce here
But it really is!
36/8 ?
Finally my balkan heritage comes to use, instead of getting bullied for it.
Same here man lol
I have to say you have really good music (fanfare cicoarlia for instance (
Romanian here. Gets bullied for being Balkan by non balkans, gets bullied for not being Balkan by Balkans.
Damn, guys, why bullied? I love people of the Balkans!
Since when are we getting bullied for this?
In my high school girl's choir, we recently learned a Bulgarian song with 9/8 time signature. To help us work with and understand the rythym, our teacher told us a different form of the 2,2,2,3 break-down. Instead of three quick beat and one slow, she counted in two sets of three but the second is twice as fast, like 1, 2, 3, 123 (the best way I can describe it in words). It made it so much easier to keep time and it's an amazing song! Very unique, I'm excited for our performance.
(Song is Kafal Sviri for anyone interested!)
As a Bulgarian that's exactly how I feel some of the songs in 9/8 :)
Interesting. Thx!
We did the same with Niska Banya. I always want to hear the 2 2 2 3 rather than 3 3 3 count because of the time we spent counting it out and stepping it out. It sparked an obsession with off time signatures pink Floyd and the band tool 😂
Everyone: nothing
Adam Neely: P O L Y R H Y T H M
R E P E T I T I O N L E G I T I M I Z E S
WOOWOWOWEEOOO
Me: Triplet 3/4
@@shtefozoid1384 R E P E T I T I O N L E G I T I M I Z E S
Probably the coolest intro I've ever seen to introduce a concept. Awesome work, Adam.
Daniel Thrasher hey it’s that one guy who did the thing
What thing?
@@mjewan9920 the office theme, but every time it exists it was written accidentally
Dave Brubeck’s Blue Rondo à la turk is the song he’s playing on piano
great song off a great fucking album
just count it "staple staple staple triangle"
Napa Shiki this is the best onomatopoeia I’ve ever seen!
Hiromi Uehara the pianist said she used "Shinbashi Shinbashi Tamachi Tamchi Shinbashi Tamachi Tamachi Tamachi" to familiarize herself with her piece "Alive", which is in 27 = 4+4+3+3+4+3+3+3 (ruclips.net/video/Bvu6-XaQOoA/видео.html ). "Shinbashi" and "Tamachi" are the names of train stations in Tokyo and note that the "n" in Shinbashi counts as one syllable in Japanese.
@@ryofurue 4+4+3+3+4+3+3+3? The fuck?
@@BanHelsing What you dont play in 27/4?
I just do taco taco taco burrito
Hey thanks a lot for the shout-out! Cool how we have so many interests in common despite our different musical backgrounds! Those "isynchronal entraining elements" (man that is SO catchy) are things I do all the time in my pieces. Thanks for another epically researched and put-together rhythmtastic video.
Yo Brucey you mirin Neely? yes you do
David Bruce Adam Neely collab confirmed
if adam and bruce ever make music together they can have my money!
You deserve it Bruce, your channel is one of the most brutally unfaired channels on the media
Man I was thinking about Blue Rondo à la Turk in the shower, came out and you started the video with that example, crazy s*it
Since I'm an Irish traditional musician, I get a lot of flak for playing 'fiddly iddle di' but being in a jam session and easily pulling out a slip jig and watching the guitarist and pianists get into a cold sweat is quite satisfying
#nomorerashersandsausages
Yes, as a guitarist backing up Irish musicians at least that aspect of 9/8 is familiar to me. I think Paddy Moloney said that Keith Richards had all manner of trouble when recording with The Chieftains for this very reason. But Adam's perfectly pitched (no pun intended!) video seemed like a mini-master class in the complexities of the meter. This is a great format BTW. Take a fairly straightforward musical topic and make great links out to all manner of richness...
Cool Man! Where about are you from? I'm also an Irish musician (Not trad but I just started learning violin to get into trad).
South Kilkenny, not particularly known for it's traditional music but my village has a mighty tradition, plenty of oldies with at least a 1000 tunes in their arsenal with it's own style (flowing with a lot of triplets).
Alas I'll be heading to Galway for college after the summer so they won't see much of me down here, I may have to try get into a few sessions in Galway.
Thanks for including Balkan music, love from Bulgaria!
Long live the Balkans! Na zdrawe/Živeli/Noroc/Yiamas! 🍻🍻
🇭🇷🇧🇬🇷🇸🇲🇪🇬🇷🇷🇴🇦🇱🇸🇮🇧🇦🇲🇰
(🇽🇰)(🇲🇩🇨🇾)
I appreciate the time you spend making these videos. They are clearly high effort and it is inspiring to see your work ethic.
This.
@@swankybutters8371 Also this.
11.2/8 is just 56/40 and we all know Shawn loves 40th notes.
Birk first time the smallest common denominator has come in useful...
Which comes out to be exactly 7/5! Which is kind of the rhythmic equivalent (in just intonation) of a tritone! :)
Thies Heidecke how the fuck do you play a 5th note?
@@squidwardstesticles5914 how the fuck do you play 40th note?
Squidward's Testicles you can play a 1, 2, 3, 4, an 8 and a 16 - so why not a 5? Not saying it would be easy, but there are theories on irrational time signatures.
4:21 I started laughing out loud😂😂
LMAOOO SAME
At 4:20 and before Adam Neely says "irregury"
SAME
this time really especially got me too
me too! :D
Meshuggah and bulgarian traditional music, Adam has hit the highest point
Lma eminescu
@@BogdanP28 aaaa trăiască
@Val as a Romanian, also mentioning Brăiloiu and gypsy music made me wet more
bulgaria #1
Is this a sign of Bulgarian folk Djent?
Balkan guy here. Honestly, never expected to see an insert from Pink TV in an Adam Neely video, but I'm glad I saw it 😂
me too haha
XD
@@bassista2614 pinik TV FTW :D :D :D
Niška banja, of all things. :)
Ngl whenever I listen to 9/8 music it just kinda feels like spicy 3/4
Hey Adam, as a Turkish man, this sincerely made my day. it's so sweet that you made a video of, or at least gave place to a concept that I have always heard here and there and thought that it is so much hidden in some corner of the world. The examples you have shown, the two videos beginning from 3.28, are called "roman havası" here in Turkey, meaning "romanian tune", and I love the music. It's a shame that the concept is looked down on by the elitists here in Turkey, since it is related to a relatively low-living small minority in Turkey. Anyway, heartfelt thanks from Istanbul for this experience and for your beautiful work.
Lastly, maybe you know that but in turkish, the word "aksak" also means "odd" in Turkish musical vocabulary.
My personal experience is otherwise, people who dont enjoy aksak rythm are the minority
@@sodr7440 exactly, when i used to live & play in Istanbul, as soon as you start an aksak *everyone* dances, hands in the air :) Evren, I'd translate Roman Havasi as "Romani tune", not Romanian. Romanian is Romanyali. (sorry i don't have turkish klavye on this computer)
kısacası asıyoruz bayrakları
Looking down on minorities is a sign of weakness.
@@sodr7440 Yes, exactly. Looking down on minorities is weakness.
So, what you're getting at is that Meshuggah is Romanian folk music?
Romanian traditional music is pretty basic rhythmically, excepting some rare songs in 7/8
@@theo_ionescu Do you have any examples? You made me curious :)
@@andreicucu8230 What comes first to mind is actually an Aromanian band, Pindu. Check out Opa Opa by them
@@theo_ionescu A lot of Romanian music is NOT in even meters actually. Not just 7/8!
@@mirceagogoncea what
I'm pretty sure Claire de Lune is also 9/8. still messes with me
Yeah i came to the video for that
@@whatif3271 Same.
damn thats why i’m here
Lmao that’s why I’m here as well
thats why im here too
I will consider purchasing an MP3 of Adam saying "repetition legitimizes" to the tune of a 9/8 Smash Mouth's All Stars.
Scarlet Dawn with the solo from Clarity
Combined with "we are number one" but each syllable is a pulse in 11/8, creating an 11:9 polyrhythm.
and the only chord is eb11
UMG wants to know your location
Tuna does youtube it alternates between Eb11 and Dmin7b5.
This made my day: "...the more that we understand, the more that we can connect and the more that we can get out of music and cultures that we were previously unfamiliar with. Ignorance is not just not knowing things. it's also the inability to connect with people." Thanks, as always, for sharing.
Excellent content, very well researched and explained. I grew up with 9/8, 7/8 and 5/7 time signatures since they are as popular as if not more popular than 4/4 beats in the country i grew in (Turkey). 9/8 is typically played 2/2/2/3 here, almost always in fast, dancy and upbeat songs, and because of this nature its very popular in pop music, apart from traditional music, and can even be heard in rock and other genres.
one of your best videos yet. Unexpectedly deep, though not after I saw it was 12 minutes haha
This and your "what is music" (or is the video title "what does music mean?" .. you know what I'm talking about) video are my favorites of your video essays. Great work, you're really inspiring me!
heeeey, nice to see you here! i am a sub of yours.
@@willthryn497 dude! Thats so cool. I know a large portion of my subs are also AN subs but its still really cool! My subs that are also AN subs are in for a treat next video, its gonna be wild lol
This has been one of my favourites dude big shout loved the Balkan references it's something I've been heavily into recently. Thanks so much for your videos.
Hey Adam,
Thanks for mentioning the balkans - 7/8 and 9/8 signatures are so common here even in pop music here that untrained people can follow them easily, runs literally in our blood xd
Question for you: Are jazz improvisations just fancy runs up and down the scale with variations? (jk)
Always glad to see your videos, cheers man
Nah they're like runs, but if you play it fast, then its improv lol
man i wish i lived in the balkans, i love odd time signatures.
I'm from India, and 5/4 and 7/4 (or 5/8 and 7/8 or whatever) feature frequently in Indian classical music (though not as frequently as 4/4 or 3/4). That makes me quite comfortable with those rhythms (in fact my favourite rhythm is 5/4). On the other hand, I feel so lost with 9/8 or 11/8. So yea, it all boils down to where you grew up.
Lol I don't think I have that talent since I mostly grew up listening to non-balkan music so 9/8 feels foreign to me even if I live in the Balkans, but yeah it's fascinating how a popular singer like Halid Beslic has so many songs written in 9/8 and seemingly has no problem with singing it without noticing there's an extra beat.
This explains why Venetian Snares started composing almost entirely in 7/8 after spending time in Hungary
At last!!! Thanks for including the intricacy and richness of balkan and eastern music in you videos. For 9/8 rythms, also check swedish polska, a lot of them are in 9 (2+4+3), a variation of a basic 3/4. Also check rebetiko music, a tradition from Greece. They have a unique and charming way of the 9 pulse.
Since we talk about 9/8 and dancing, I would like to redirect you to an excerpt of the movie "Rembetiko" (1983)
ruclips.net/video/1TadnMNq3rI/видео.html
Here we see a man dancing a dance called "Zeibekiko" over a 9/8 song about life in prison.
Τhe 9/8 dances that Adam uses as examples above are usually cheerful dances (often used as a form of socializing), where many dancers -men and women alike, form a circle together and the dance consists of a set of specific moves. In contrast, "Zeibekiko" is mostly a one-man dance, with improvised movements, meant to express the pain, solitude, etc of the dancer. Zeibekiko is a popular dance in Greece, based on variations of the (2+2+2+3) rhythmic pattern.
François Landry Reminds me of “Apocalypse in 9/8” which is a segment of “Supper’s Ready” by Genesis
Fun note about irish slip jig music.
When it is played its played in 3 sets of 3 but when danced to its counted in "5", that being
Quarter, eighth, quarter, eighth, dotted quarter. With each being given a number 1,2 etc
So when counted to start a dance it is 1..2.3..4.5...
Just a fun note from a dancer 👍👍 great video (i know this is a year late comment)
I saw the title and was like yeah it'd better have Blue Rondo a la Turk. Nutted at 0:05
I came here cuz im playing it and needed help and there it was
Might write a djent song called Isochronal Entraining Element now.
That legitimately sounds like a Meshuggah song, do it!
Fuuny tho, Meshuggah is all in 4/4
Jack Traveller Where will this be posted?👀
I listened to Sungazer on Spotify and was blown away by it. Each song is so eclectic and cool. Bird on the Wing may be complicated to perform, but it's a great song to listen - and dance to!
Can you tell me what genre of music that belongs in? The closest thing I hear is Prog Rock but somehow, that's not quite it. Maybe I'm old. I've never heard anything quite like this before and now I'm hearing this type of music quite a bit. It seems to have something to do with computers. Maybe it just wasn't invented before? Can you explain this to me?
@@belajadevotchka2 it's like super progressive jazz fusion
Legitimation Repetisizes
etmrilttepo izsgneieii
Based on a true story 🥂😏
Dope
Supper's Ready by Genesis - just an amazing piece of music , I still can't find the 1 , and with one of the best keyboard solos over the time signature as well
That song is amazinggg
@@cflynn8091 Came here for the Apocalypse in 9/8 comment
My thought is that the key solo is structured in 4/4 while the 9/8 plays under it. It glides too smoothly to be "normal". damn you tony banks and your tricks
@@cameronjirowetz A trick of the tail, you might say
Slicer Shanks obviously you know how rare true genesis aficionados are. 😁
This is the best video on an odd time signature I’ve ever seen. We live in an awesome time, makes me glad to be alive
As a Greek I found the part where you mentioned the "in between" time signatures to be fascinating. I had a talk with an old man that used to play for events where traditional Greek dancing was taking place and he explained to me that because not everyone is a trained dancer they would match their playing to the steps of the dancers on the stage. Granted as a modern young musician I found the idea of downgrading your play to be heretical at best but it makes sense to support the dancers in that community which is so heavily based on dancing. Also now I know why I find odd time signatures so natural. It's because I grew up listening to them without even knowing what they were!
Efaristo! Nice. My Greek friend got me into these rhythms. He played the drumset with a Greek band, and everyone would dance. I agree, it's better to feel it first, and only count if you don't get it immediately. They would play 9's, 13's, etc. After he saw that I got it, he had me come up and play the tambourine with the band, it was super fun! I was the only non-Greek guy. I even tried a couple of the easier dances. :) I have much respect for Greek (and also Bulgarian) rhythms!
@@ChuloDavidcito that's really great man! Greek rhythms are pretty fun and I grew to appreciate them more after I got to count em and study them a bit. Many young Greeks (including me) hate those traditional songs but honestly we should feel more proud about em cause it's genuinely good music with a rich history behind it
I once visited one of the many greek islands called Rhodos. I watched a folklore dance to a classic folklore piece of music, which starts off slow and very gradually speeds up. The music was played live, and to this day I still don't know how the musicians could all speed up at the same rate and stay perfectly in sync throughout it all. Especially in the "breakdown" where the music reaches peak speed then suddenly the tempo drops to even slower than the beginning. I'll never forget how hard that blew my mind.
A musician from the Balkans here, I was young, very young when the cultural, actually not even born....
Anyway, my grandfather was a violin player and he fondly remembered when people from the west would come and perform here, they would almost always leave with as many records as they possibly could because of the rhythm sections role in the music and how foreign it was (at that time) to western ears. You focused on Romania a lot...maybe confusing the name of the people (Roma people) having something to do with Romania, but there is a lot of stuff to comb through as you go down the Balkans.
I'll leave you guys with some very palatable names to get into the music
--
Darko Rundek - Ruke
Darko Rundek - Apokalipso
Goran Bregović - Kalashnikov
Goran Bregovic with orchestra Serbia 2007 - this is an hour and a half performance
Esma Redzepova - Caje sukarije -- This woman could sing over a 200+ room with no P.A
From the suggestions around these, you can dive deep, DEEEP into some wonderfully crazy music. But it really is meant to be listened to live.
Darko Rundek
“Ignorance is also the inability to connect with people” 👏👏 PREACH
That sign off was actually super wholesome. Love the videos man
Ayyyyyy as a Balkan Turk I am honored of our cultural time signature gettin' some recognition.
NASA JET PROPULSION LABORATORY lighten up a little eh?
As a Turkish person, 9/8 unironically feels more natural than 3/4.
I've had a weird day. First I dreamt that somebody gave me a T-shirt that says, "Keep your penis out of my Mountain Dew" and now Adam Neely is trying to make me into a more beautiful human.
Your stuffed.
Always feels kinda good to see your small country mentioned in a video.
This is my favourite video but not because I'm from Bulgaria and I love polyrhythms. Philosophical and emotional at the end. Good job.
Question for the next Q&A:
Can you really call yourself a Bass player if you don't move your head like Joe Dart?
Another balkan music reference...
Hmmm...
So when you are moving to live in Bulgaria?
I think this only shows how many Bulgarians there are in NYC. I think Adam has been in contact with some.
@@InsArtTure I can't speculate about that. It seems very likely to stumble upon Bulgarian music when researching odd meters just because Bulgarian music has so many and so much of them.
My god, you're such an amazing academic. The quality, professionality and genuine emotion in this (and all your other) video(s) is incredibly inspiring!
Great video. I cited the very same Bonini Baraldi study in a video I made about aksak rhythms about 6 months back ("How To Dance in 22/16") - very glad to see the topic popularised by a slicker video editor with a much wider reach! I recommend the music of Stoyan Velichkov, by the way, there is a beautiful dance called "Nanyovo Horo" (or 'naniovo horo' is the spelling which brings it up on youtube, the former spelling is used on "Bulgarian Folk Dances vol. 2").
We use the word "Aksak" a lot in Turkish and in our daily lives as well. "Aksak" is used in daily language in the sense of lame or work that is not going well. For example, "Saat aksadı", the clock is limping.
Balkan rhythm covered by Adam Neely? Why haven't I seen this earlier! This is amazing!
Seriously tho this is by far the best analysis; the most educational video on this underexplored topic ever! Thank you so much! I wanna see more such videos!
That was a very Vsauce outro
Yeah, felt it too...
Oʀ ᴅɪᴅ I?
I thought the exact same thing
It was only missing "and as always". My brain filled it in.
It is a very Vsauce video
@@TheNomios
*music kicks in*
How much does a feeling weigh?
I am from Serbia.
In Serbia we play 9/8 and 7/8 very naturally. It is easier for us to count in those time signatures than 4/4. It also effects our composing since we hear 9/8 from our childhood.
jendvatri jendva jendva
de set de vet o sam se dam ses pet ce tri tri dva je dan
Maybe in the south. I mean, I have no problem with it, but in the north we're more 4/4 and 2/4 when speaking of traditional music, 3/4 of course comes later too.
I'm from Finland and I grew up with 4/4 music, but now it's really hard for me to make music in 4/4 due to making and listening to music in odd time signatures. Usually my songs end up being in 3/4. I don't know why it's so hard for me to add that one extra beat :D pisses me off
@@tattipata1121 Hey man, that's absolutely no problem! You shouldn't be pissed off! It's great that you can write things in an odd meter, because that's really awesome! I wish we could change a bit. I made a tiny song/arrangement in 5/8 on my channel, with still the boring 4/4 rhythm in the back of my mind, and you can definetely hear it. Which pisses me off haha Anyways, keep playing/making music. :)
@@fabianvanderelst9643 Haha I know man, prog music is my passion but I miss that 4/4 feel, you can make awesome things with it as well. I just gotta keep trying I guess :D and you have to keep on making music with odd time signatures, your 5/8 piece sounded awesome. I could imagine parts of it being in a video game.
Hey Adam. I'm a contemporary jazz saxophonist who was literally introduced to French-Algerian guitar virtuoso Pierre Bensusan last year. We hit it off and started working on collaborating. This video is pure gold! It clarifies a solid approach to understanding the World and Celtic elements of Pierre's music. Thanks so much! #ForwardMotion ☀🔥
As a Turkish, play baglama. It's the most common used instrument in the Turkish ethnic music and most common beats are 9/8, 2/2, 5/4 or 7/8. 4/4 is an unexplored territory for most of us Turkish musicians. Being grown up with music that has odd time signatures I can confirm that it really helps the way you feel and understand rhythm. Peace.
"But can you play Smoke on the water?"
"No, I'm turkish"
You need to try Strong One
Yabancı müzisyenler 9/8 görünce donup kalıyor ya, çok komik geliyor bana nedense.
please try 15/8
Listen to king gizzard and the lizard wizards album - flying microtonal banana. They use a lot of Turkish instruments throughout the album
I am from the balkans, specifically from Bulgaria and it is very interesting how I sent you a composition with Bulgarian traditional music in 9/8 for #howtonotsuckatmusic just last week. That was a great video, love your content!
Cheers
Hey Adam! Greek singer here! Complicated/nerdy question for your next Q+A. 9/8 indeed feels super natural as a quick/slow representation, if we had to "sing" it, it would sound more like PApa-PApa-PApa-PApapa *LOLolol* BUT there's another example of 9/8 in greek music that doesn't use the quick/slow thing. It's called Zeimpekiko and we count it in a super weird way. It's like, the musical phrase ends at 18/8. And it has 2 parts. The first half has 8/8 and the second half has 10/8. Maybe we can also count it in 4/4 + 5/4, but it's a slow type of music so it makes more sense to count it in 18/8, otherwise it gets *too* slow. I mean you COULD count it in 9/8, but when you do, it cuts the phrase in half, so it's like the first beat of the second half of the phrase is at the end of the first half (and the musical phrase is complete after 2 bars and not 1). So, how would you transcribe Zeimpekiko in 9/8, without losing the feel of the 2 phrases? Or is that irrelevant to the actual playing of a piece? Or am I overthinking it and it's just 9/8 and the whole phrase can fit in one bar but the count is just slower? (listen to "Feggari" by Natassa Theodoridou)
I miss the good ol’ days of
Andy Nollie’s Base Lesions....
Aaron Nandy’s Bait & Tackle....
Angelo Nodule’s Mercantile....
Agrabah Nottingham’s Mercenary....
Abominable No Man’s Land....
Anthropology....
Also Hand Cannot Erase by Steven Wilson (although I think that's in 9/4)
basically the same thing
As a Bulgarian... great job, dude. Great job.
Арее, българин юнак!
"How the musician feels the pulse is also how the listener should feel the pulse" is a great concept to play around with. A great example for that is Gustav Holst's second suite, movement 3: the opening is entirely off-beat, so the listener thinks that is the beat. But then the melody enters on-beat, and the listener is confused for a few seconds before returning to pulse, not entirely understanding what happened.
As a balkanian i approve this video
THANK YOU. I never even considered writing in 9/8 but just for fun I messed around with it after watching this video and wrote a pretty interesting 9/8 funk progression.
How to play in 9/8
-don’t
Why? It's hella fun and not really difficult at all once you have the hang of it.
And yes, I know it's a joke, but some people might take it too seriously :)
It’s not difficult
Great idea on how to lock yourself into only one world view and forcing yourself not to grow 👍Self-stunting at its finest
Tony Banks: How bout I do anyways?
Kinda fell in love with Adam
What's wrong with me
Плюм Бум You like smart men.
nothing is wrong with you, I share the feelings
A lot, don't be fooled by the other comments.
Love isn't supposed to be felt towards someone who you don't know at all.
Jodonore 2.0 damn. I felt that
I was listening to Birds on the Wing before watching this video, so I paused Spotify. Then I heard the opening bit again, so I thought I must have double clicked the play button, but it's paused. So I continue watching the video again and hear the bit again. Repeat this for about 5 more times. My life is music.
Newborns can feel the beat because they have been listening to their mother's heart for 9 months.
Mind blown
25 weeks in. Babies develop auditory cortex around this time. So more like 3 months give or take a month
I think the best use of 9/8 is in Genesis' song Supper's Ready. The last part is called "Apocalypse in 9/8" and it is absolutely amazing!
Video about 9/8 and no mention of Supper's Ready? I am a triggered Genesis fan!
I think that passage is felt as 4-3-2. At least when I count that it feels like there's a strong pulse on the 1s and the snare on the 2s.
There is no "best use" of a metric. I'd like your thoughts on the "best use" of 4/4 ...
MagnusBruce it’s actually felt as 3-2-4
Whenever I think of a song in 9/8, Tool's Jambi always comes to mind. A large portion of the song is in 9/8 I think, and it sounds incredible.
i studied music and philosophy, and now this video is one of the best for both!
Music theory is ridiculous. This is all Pythagorus's fault.
itchykami why do you say that?
Then what are you even doing here?
What
You can't even spell right
Τον Πυθαγόρα δεν θα τον ξαναβρίσεις! ΤΟΝ ΠΥΘΑΓΌΡΑ.
what’s this? an Adam Neely vid AND a June lee transcription uploaded at the same time? what are the chances
yo - something greats about to take place
The uneven beats described here are those I've always loved.
Does anyone else have a sudden craving for 9/8 drum n bass? Just me?
oh my god
that'd be....
fucking SICK
Try London Electricity's Syncopated City Revisited! Not exactly 9/8 (it's in 5/4), but a really interesting listen nonetheless!
@@Juzernejmnakurov2 thanks man. I'm checking it out now.
@@Juzernejmnakurov2 that definitely was interesting. It was a bit harder to get into then most 5/4 songs I've heard but about halfway through I started to really enjoy it. That was pretty great.
I don't know any 9/8 drum and bass but can I interest you in some 7/8 Jungle? Search Kiril Dzajkovski Stain The Brain. You're Welcome :)
Greetings from Bulgaria dudes and dudettes! You are welcome for the weird time signatures 😁
I don’t know how I stumbled to this but I love that I did! This reminded me there’s so much to learn and enjoy!
Can’t it also be just 3/4 with triplets?
Listen to Claire De Lune. Most of the song better understood as 9/8
Thank you for this episode. I attended a concert in Kuwait a few weeks ago for the Italian musician Daniel Sepe in which he played a Serbian folk song called Ajde Jano. I was so intrigued by its 7/8 rhythm in 3,2,2 pattern and started looking for more music like that (singing “A whole new world” in my head). Thanks again
pink floyd, money
You ABSOLUTE LEGEND, what a fantastic way you have to explain music
I think Gavin Harrison called the isotonal entraining element 'overriding' once and I've found that a useful descriptor
Yeah but, he stole some pineapples.
Yeah, I like his way of thinking about it too, very simple and to the point. "What's that?" "I'm riding over the ensemble with a new pulse." "Ok, cool, got it." Certainly a bit punchier than isochronic entrainment or whatever, although regardless of what terms we use as long as more people are getting and using these techniques I'll be happy. It's super fun and catchy once you get it down, I've used it in almost everything for over a decade and it still hasn't gotten old.
@Wadsmitter Isn't he painting Kings crimson now?
I actually find 9/8 quite interesting, and easy to groove with once you get into the peice. In 7th grade choir, we sang a song called Niska Banja (I think) that was in 9/8, and it was really fun!
I’ve watched 3 of your videos back to back and my mind is blown right now.
Blue rondo ala turk was literally the song i needed help with on 9/8
Hey Adam, why don’t you set up a discord for people to talk music and just hang out? Thanks for the video!
This!!!
^
If you slow 9/8 down considerably, you end up with great possibilities for internal syncopation. The zeybek/zembekiko is a good example of this.
The only song that i remember in 9/8 is "I hung my head" by Sting. There are some covers in 4/4 but, they lose that special feeling
Another interesting thing about that song is what happens with the snare between 3:25 and 4:00 (in the mix)
That’s the song I typically think of for when 9/8 isn’t split into 3. I grew up hearing a lot of Celtic music so I kinda automatically think of slip jigs, but that’s the song I think of for uneven divisions
As soon as I heard Dave Brubeck's "Blue Rondo Alla Turk" I was very excited. I'm confused as to why you didn't mention that even though you played it.
phillip glass's "Opening" does this great with a 3 vs 2 feel. It creates it's own percussion line simply from being. It's awesome.
Sungazer 2 was great
Грънчарско хоро! Евала бе, пич, putting us on the map again. Your _appreciation for_ and _knowledge breadth of_ musical culture never ceases to delight.
И аз се изненадах :D Евала на човека, че споделя тия неща :>
Мила Родинооооо
That bit at the end about ignorance was wonderful
Damn, hearing Sorcerer's Apprentice again really takes me back to Sophomore year in Marching Band, where part of our show was playing that song. Whenever I think of 9/8, that song always comes to mind first.
Uruguayan Singer/songwriter and doctor (a real doctor) Jorge Drexler, gave a Ted talk about the how he uses a popular Uruguayan rhythm called "milonga" where they count the music as 3 + 3 + 2. He explained that this kind of rhythm in his country is thought to be the most representative of their culture. As he began to travel the world he realized how that same rhythm repeated in other countries and also these countries thought that same rhythm was the most representative of their culture. Also talks about a type of writing called "La Décima" that only exists in the Spanish language. ruclips.net/video/C2p42GASnUo/видео.html
Haven't watched the ted talk yet (but will soon) but 3 3 2 is quite common. I mean even Coldplay and the Foo Fighters have used it.
After watching a handful of your videos I feel like I should watch throughout my journey in college starting this fall because some of the stuff that you talk about is very helpful for sure. Thank you for the helpful videos
порнуха меня не заводит уже, но ваши, мистер Нили, видео опасны для моего благочестия.
О, здравствуй. Правда же, он очень хорош?
ПХПХАХ, ВОТ ТОЛЬКО С ТВОЕГО ВИДЕО ПРО АРАНЖИРОВКИ ПЕРЕШЁЛ
НЕ ОЖИДАЛ
Blue Rondo à la Turk was the first song that came to mind when I read the title to this video
It's an amazing research on the structure of Balkan and Anatolian rhythm!!
Adam, question for yout next Q&A:
what exactly makes a song be in a minor key and not just in the relative major key, just revolving around the vi chord a lot? for instance awhile ago 12tone analyzed "message in a bottle" and considered it in E major and said we never see the I chord in the verse part, whereas i always thought of it as C# minor. however i never see anyone calling something like Spanish Romance a piece in G major instead of E minor, is that because of the V to i resolusion? in other words is that the defining factor of whether a piece/song is in a minor or major key?
Thanks for answering my weird Qs adam :)
Replying just to follow the thread if there's any answer to this.
same
Just ask the song whether its happy or sad.
Adam could probably give a more articulate answer than I could, but basically there can be real ambiguity about whether a song is in major or its relative minor, and different people could come to different conclusions in certain cases. Some clues could be whether the melody centers around a particular note in a way that implies it’s the tonic, whether particular chords fall on a strong beat or are otherwise emphasized in a way that feels like a more definitive resolution than the other chords, or even more ephemeral stuff like whether the song “feels” major or minor in some more subjective way. A V to i resolution is typically a strong clue for minor though, since the V chord doesn’t appear in the relative major, but even that’s not a hard and fast rule since you can have secondary dominants (V/vi - vi) in songs that are uncontroversially major (Just Another Day by Lady Gaga is a good example)
Usually you look for a resolution. A dominant chord to a tonic chord is usually a good sign. It is subjective though and many songs can be consider to be in both major and minor. Especially with natural minor there’s almost no difference. If the raised seventh of harmonic minor never appears in a song I feel like most people will just consider it major.
I, like many other of my musicology students had been nerding over balkan time signature for a while, but when I heard a Bulgarian folk group perform I realized that while we are thinking, counting and feeling 9/8 or 11/8, they are not playing in what is exactly a 9/8 time signature. Sure one beat is longer than the other, but not an eighth note longer, and not a sixteenth note longer either. In later years I have realized that we have intricate time signatures at home as well. A well trained ear can spot where a Norwegian Traditional musician is from based on how long or short the second beat of a certain dance is. It is truly fascinating how music taught entirely by ear and performed only for the sake of dancing can have rhythm that we would describe as highly complex.
I'm from the Balkans. A certain Norwegian polska had me and most of an Ethno workshop orchestra scratching their heads, with the teaching musician just going "it's 3/4 and a little bit extra, you'll feel it".
I had to play Blue Ronda alla turke for jazz band, this video helped me understand it more honestly.
maybe my favorite vid on this channel. and I love your channel, Adam. when you said that 9/8 could also be seen as a metaphor between different cultures, oh my, the antrophologist in me felt goosebumps all around. I love how you fully respect antropologic notions of culture on your videos. anyways, congrats, big fan here.