Sarah sounds like she was a remarkable woman, from what I read. She must’ve been pretty brave, to take on such a sailing journey. May she rest in peace. I’m sorry for your loss. ❤🕊️
I sail alone, I have an EPIRB on the boat and a Personal Locator Beacon carried on my body. When I speak with other sailors, it strikes me that they think that the $400 spent on the PLB, which sends signals directly to the satellites, which is accurate to 100 meters, which you can carry on your body, is just too much money.
My life jacket cost more than $400 an I am on a fixed income. Motorcycle helmets commonly cost twice that. Motorcycle/horseback riding airbag vests cost twice that. Riding boots are $400. Even a good leather jacket an a cheaper helmet will set you back $400. If they are not willing to pay what the average kid pays for safety gear to ride a motorcycle, how did they even afford a boat? I wonder if the helicopter fuel to come get them cost to much to?
@@RebelCowboysRVs Long ago when I worked at a motorcycle shop we had a standard response to people who complained about helmet prices: "What's your head worth to you?". Kind of puts the importance of personal safety gear into the proper perspective, doesn't it?
I saw online this morning about the tragedy this couple endured. Sooo very sorry to see this. My heart goes out to their family and friends. Since this morning I've been watching so many of their videos and felt like I knew them. Such a lovely couple. 😢
🤔 *First:* Because the Keel would weigh a few tons in these craft, a monohull like this can only get momentarily 'knocked down' by wind, and will never "capsize" and flip upside down unless caught in a huge wave from the side at the same time where water movement adds to the rolling (being broached). Also; their water tanks will likely have been at _full capacity_ for their long trip, adding many kilograms (+300 to 800kg). If however the keel was to fall off due to collision with a large submerged object (container, Ice etc), any yacht will then capsize and sink - most monohulls (unlike catamarans) do not have built-in positive buoyancy, and once water gets in ... down they go! *Second:* Saying that the weight shift of a few solar panels and the engine swap would be a concern (even for a knock-down) is like worrying that you'll become airborne in a storm while holding your umbrella. Neither the weight of the panels, their windage, nor the strength of the solar panel fittings would conform to lend that theory significant credibility as a singular causal factor IMO. Orcas however, have been known to rip out rudders causing sinking, but this is not usually a problem on the type of skegged rudder design of their vessel due to the added strength and support of the lower pivot plate. The vessel has not yet been located: It is _possible_ it was hijacked. I heard no mention of cause of death.
Valuable comment! I too would first think of some sort of collision, whether with marine life, ice, or an adrift container - or piracy we lost good friends who were very experienced and well prepared to pirates. These were intelligent people who seemed well prepared... They don't deserve this uninformed speculation.
@@lapsedluddite3381I don’t think HSN Transport is uninformed. Everything he says makes sense to me. Thinking there are hijackings or ice in this area is uninformed guesswork. Transport may be assuming if there was a collision with a log, dead whale, etc. would give the crew enough time to at least get off a distress call. Sad there was no EPIRB mounted outside. Because of the unclear report by the Mounties, the public doesn’t know if they were found in a round life raft, or a ten foot long zodiac-type dinghy. The life raft would have given them the means to have food, water, flares, high visibility from the sky, and protection from the wind. The ten’ dinghy/ life boat just would have kept them out of the ocean. We don’t know if they were able to board the raft or the ten’ zodiac from their yacht, or were forced to board from the water. The coroner will reveal if there was a fire. I’ve looked at battery info from Nissan Leafs. A man uploaded a detailed instruction video on how to change Leaf batteries. They have a history worth looking into. Using salvaged batteries is a concern. I guess we have to just be patient and wait for more information.
Everyone will be a critic on this one. But, here goes: Reportedly the couple did not have an EPIRB, which to me is an utter essential for offshore. Anything less is insufficient. Secondly, a large can or cube of freshwater should always be close at hand for moving into any dinghy or liferaft. Thirdly, a satellite phone should be on the list of "should have".
I thing you’ve jumped to a conclusion about the batteries. By far the most likely is a weather related event(capsize, flooding). Next is hitting a submerged object( reef, wreck, container, wildlife). It was obviously a catastrophic event for them to deploy and escape in a life raft. Fire is a definite possibility but not the most likely. Probably died of exposure . Be interesting to know if they had time to get into immersion suits. If they didn’t that tells you the speed of the event that led them to abandon ship. There’s wild horses on sable island so there must be potable water. Shame they didn’t make it there alive.
you actually dont know what they really had or didnt, you saw what their RUclips personas wanted you to think but thats not reality. in fact hypothermia kills before dehydration that far north anyway so are you gonna claim its their fault for not bringing their heater?
@@norml.hugh-mann "you actually dont know what they really had or didnt, you saw what their RUclips personas wanted you to think" It was very clear from their videos that he was very cavalier about safety. They didn't have offshore grade foul weather gear, they had inshore inflatable vests with no harness which they rarely wore. PLB's with SART on lifejackets is kinda a good idea. They had an EPIRB which was not registered and kept inside. He removed a mast, the man overboard pole and the RADAR reflector, and a throwable life ring from the back of the boat. He consulted no one and disregarded advice concerning his imbecilic battery conversion. It is very doubtful he had insurance with that conversion. "gonna claim its their fault for not bringing their heater?" You don't bring a "heater". You have immersion suits. You have an offshore category liferaft with a double floor for insulation, with EPIRB, and maybe a sat communicator and radio. That will no doubt all come out in the inquiry. When and if it is fully released to the public is another thing
The old adage: Ask 5 sailors for an opinion, and you will get 8. Replacing a safety and performance-known diesel engine with a used Leaf EV battery seems to be a significant risk amplifier. It is quite possible that, if a battery fire initiated, smoke would render the boat toxic within half a minutes, with water fueled combustion starting not many seconds later. If there was a satellite beacon on board, it might have been rendered inaccessible almost immediately.
seems like a fire that intense would have burned an inflatable liferaft too..or at least left some sort of evidence detectable on the victims or liferaft. Im sure all the loudmouth "anything to speed up climate change by burning more oil" crowd would have already released any actual evidence if there were any so your just pushing your bias against electric vehicles as some kind of scenario while we all no there is ZERO evidence of fire...seems like your trying to soil the ideas of the lost couple by pushing the exact propaganda they fought against about sustainable propulsion trying to exploit their demise to push an agenda that just keeps making the world worse and the rich richer,,,,shameful
My condolences to the families of the deceased. They perished doing what they loved and that is better than living without ever having followed your dreams! RIP.
@@misarthim6538 the video does not state they had an epirb. Was that info from another source? The other items would not be accessed if the emergency required very quick action and they didnt have time before the boat would sink. So many questions...
@@mgillee1 Actually, you're right, my bad. I misheard when they said 'another POSSIBILITY is that they had an EPIRB but it was mounted inside'. There's no indication they had one, at least not registered one apparently. Such a tragic loss of life.
@@misarthim6538 I don't believe that for a minute. You're saying they had multiple safety devices, but somehow activated none of them before or after they climbed in their dinghy? ?
Unless they were towing the dinghy behind the boat I don't think a fire caused this accident. If the dinghy would have been on the boat and a fire started, they would not have had the time to get that dinghy overboard and jump into it. When a fire starts you may perhaps have 3 - 5 min (at best) before the fire forces you to jump into the water. Therefore I am more thinking in the line of hitting a submerged item in the sea, causing a leakage and sinking of the boat. They may have tried to call via radio, but as we all know, when you are out of range you can shout as much as you like, nobody is going to hear you. I would have expected a hand held radio with extra batteries in the grab bag. They were close to shipping lanes and if they would have seen a ship on the horizon at least they could have called. On top of that, any SAR aircraft would be able to hear the distress call as well. When equipped with a direction finder it becomes pretty easy to find the survivors. As a former SAR pilot I can tell you that we never lost a single person in the Caribbean when they had a radio or an epirb. Those were the quick and easy rescues, 100 % success was guaranteed. So anyone setting out to sea, make sure you have a waterproof hand held radio (with extra batteries) to increase your chances of survival. When you make ocean crossings, an EPIRB is a must. Don't even think of leaving without one.
My thoughts when I heard that they'd fitted a Lithium Ion battery from a car, was 'Oh Jesus' - My guess is they slung the battery low to keep the metacentric height low and when it got wet, a fire started, one that they were incapable of fighting with onboard means and they took to the boat rather than the raft as that was probably stored directly over the battery fire.
Sure the panels and dodger add windage and some balance issues but I can't imagine it's enough to capsize the vessel. Fire seems much more likely especially with electric inboard.
The addons adding windage was suggested to me by a far more experienced mariner then I. I would not have suggested it, if it were not for his experience, and though it worth mentioning for exactly that reason.
@@hfxshippingnewszero chance. you'd need HUGE winds and waves first and second it would break off and fly away long before affecting the vessel. Thats 40 years of my experience saying so. And I have built many hardtops similar to theirs.
@@NomadSurvivor You have built many along with removing a ton of weight below? I find that unusual as did not think many were removing big heavy diesel engines below for decades as a popular trend.
@@kevinfisher1345 said nothing about weight below. electric propulsion for passages or blue water type sailing is a BAD PLAN There is no mistake for a reliable diesel to save your life when needed. Anyways, this tangent has gone far enough. The End.
Very sorry they lost their lives. That dinghy is 10'. Pretty standard. I think most sailors would go for the dinghy first, especially if it has a motor and large can of gas. If the life raft opened up, tie it to the dinghy -- inside it will give you protection from the sun and wind. If the weather and waves get bad, go in the life raft. Meanwhile the dinghy can motor or be rowed. That dodger doesn't weigh that much. But electric drive in the north Atlantic? Not a lot of sunshine. The range has to be minuscule. (I've crossed the north Pacific. There were days and days of overcast. Not sure how our solar panels were doing -- but our diesel engines were working just fine.) Could a Leaf battery fit between the hull frame? If not then it could be riding too high. My 45' Hunter has a diesel engine and 190 gallon tanks. At a gallon an hour gives me 6 knots and a range of 1140 nM. The Leaf battery won't move them that fast and probably won't take them even 100 nM. What were the winds like along their planned route? We had four and five day stretches with not enough wind to do anything but motor. This isn't a problem if you're willing to wait it out. Two weeks without food is survivable. 5-6 days without fresh water is fatal. Hypothermia and exposure are significant factors. What would be interesting to know is how they were dressed? What did they have onboard the dinghy? A go bag? Water containers?
With 800 watts of solar on lake Ontario I could do 2 knots indefinitely off the sun on a sunny day on my 40ft heavy bluewater sailboat...but it's a sailboat, the range is infinite
"think most sailors would go for the dinghy first, especially if it has a motor and large can of gas. " Uh, no. A dinghy is for going back and forth if you're on a mooring, not for the Atlantic between NS and Sable Island. You'd only take to a dinghy if you had no other option.
This guy was intent on not using any petroleum powered products. A video from a couple years ago, he talks about selling the 9-10 hp outboard motor for the dingy and replacing it also with an electric one.....
But they are still dead, and probably died horribly. That's it, game over, nothing more. What a waste for a ridiculous EV battery - definitely THE most likely cause of a catastrophic fire. The Gib Sea 42 is a fabulous boat, there is no way it would 'capsize' and stay inverted. The 'top heavy' comments are nonsense. A lot of windage, but not that would only create weather helm which is ok in a bad blow. NOBODY should ever fit a fine diesel engined sailboat with a useless EV battery that, in salt water, is a time bomb.
Whatever happened, happened quickly. Most ditch bags, for cruisers, should at least carry a handheld VHF radio, flare gun...you know the rest and maybe a Sat phone. I store my sat phone in the ditch bag and I keep it up off the cabin floor near where I can grab it on the way out quickly. I have a small floatation noodle on it too with a water activated light. How very sad for the family to know they got off the boat but died from the elements. RIP John
Agree it was fast. Found in their 10’ inflatable boat/dinghy indicates no time to launch raft or grab anything. A massive EV battery run away and explosion could be possible, but no signs (yet) of personal injuries. Piracy possible but highly unlikely in that area. A collision, unless cut in half by a large ship would still leave time to grab some things needed for survival. Certainly mysterious!😢
Indeed. I think I am going to now store my grab bag in the cockpit or at least a cockpit locker. A rapid fire in the cabin with smoke or flames pouring out, would make it difficult to get a grab bag even if it were at the top of the steps in the hatch.
Wow, thank you for this breakdown! I'm an aspiring sailor and the news article came across my notifications so I really needed some possible ideas on what might have happened. I remember about 15 years ago a family of 4 or 5 with young kids got hit by a South Korean tanker at night and sank them.
They should easily be able to perform a wipe test on the surface of the dinghy for the remnants of a lithium battery fire if that was the case. Such battery fires would deposit even trace amounts of material that is very difficult to remove from any surfaces.
Solar install nomissue even in 100 knots. But the electric drive sounds probable cause. Or 1000 other reasons. Tragic they survived the initial sinking and lost along the way. Scary stuff
Of all the many safety improvements made over the last one hundred years, one could make a case for diesel engines being the most important. Before their introduction, sailboats were vulnerable to the vagaries of wind and tide, leading to frequent tragegies. And a 40ft boat would probably be capable of carrying enough fuel for a range of 500 NM or more, even in difficult weather. By contrast, an electric driven sailboat has negligible range and limited power - fine for entering and exiting a local marina on a sunny day but not for venturing into challenging crossings.
Sailing vessel Uma has been fully electric for years and gone all over the place, they are doing a refit right now. But they went to the arctic in a plastic fantastic.
@@CaptMortifyd its a while since I checked up on them but with all their investments and upgrades, I gather that the best they were achieving was 3 hours a day run time and it was closer to 1 hour on back to back days, (both at reduced speeds) depending on how much sun they were receiving. That may be OK in open water, away from land, but if you are fighting a tidal, river or countercurrent that limitation could get you into trouble. Conversely, my 50 year old, reliable little diesel will give me 24 hours of run time, at hull speed, and I can carry enough fuel to keep that up for days at a time. Good luck to them both but, to be clear, we are a long way from electric propulsion being viable for boats off grid.
You make an excellent point. In my estimation, the genesis of this tragedy was their initial decision to retrofit their vessel with an experimental, DIY-electric propulsion system and toss out the proven, extremely reliable diesel engine (and the method of propulsion for which the vessel was designed.) While I appreciate they had good intentions, the fact remains it was a sail boat. There is nothing more "green" than harnessing the power of the wind. Removing a sailing mast to install solar panels seems counterproductive to the "going green" desire right from the go.
@user-gh2ys9km2o Unfortunately, there is too much hype and too little inforned discussion about renewable energy. An EV achieves it's 300 mile range because, once it has accelerated and reached cruising speed, it's energy needs are negligible. Conversely, a displacement hull has to constantly push water aside, never achieving real momentum. Similarly, an EV recovers much of the energy it expended in acceleration when decelerating (regenerative braking), something that displacement hulls cannot achieve. Maybe when EV battery technology can achieve a 1,000 mile range, electric propulsion for sailboats may become viable for local, coastal, cruising but that day is decades away
Your assumptions about the weight of the hard top (which appears to be made out of foam composite) and the solar panels implying that it was going to affect stability is nonsense. As someone said, their water tanks would be full, their supplies full and modern day boats or this type are just not that tippy. God knows what has happened to these people, fire, hitting something. They were clearly experienced-- a very sad story.
It wasn’t just the weight of the panels but the surface area. It’s possible that the aerodynamics of the panels caused some issues with proper handling in high winds.
@@leafbitagricultureimaging8892 I very, very, very much doubt this. There are thousands or yachts sailing all over the world with solar set ups like that, including on my own boat. It just not the issue!
While changing the balance of the boat may not make it capsize, it could cause it to be difficult to maneuver, especially in rough seas and high winds. The boat could flounder, take on water, and eventually lose buoyancy. Single-hull boats, like the Theros, will sink like stones once buoyancy is lost. So, in that regard, all those modifications could have lead to the vessel's doom. But, personally, I believe the boat was most likely lost due to a fire from the homebrew DIY-electrical system.
I've heard highly respected and experienced sailors criticize overloading the stern with solar panels and davits and stuff, for reasons to do with seaworthiness. It's fine most of the time, but I suppose that in bad enough conditions, it could become an issue with the added surface area and weight up top. I'd be curious to hear what a naval architect would say.
I concur about the dangers of a Leaf Li-Ion battery in a marine environment. Sheer folly. Those batteries are air cooled, and tend to overheat and degrade. Placing one inside the hull of the Theros strikes me as a significant safety hazard. If the battery caught fire, there is no way they could have extinguished it. Even a fully equipped municipal fire service has a hard time putting out those Li-Ion battery fires. It is also possible that the Theros struck a shipping container, fatally damaging her hull. And, the modifications this couple made to the vessel, as you point out, may have made the Theros unstable. I hope that more answers are forthcoming, as authorities investigate. Maybe pieces of the vessel will turn up, offering clues.
@@corals4508 Totally agree! Nobody did a lick of math for their design. How long would it take to charge a 40kwh battery with those tiny little cells? How much energy is there in a 40kwh battery compared to a 100 gallon tank of diesel (even with engine thermal losses)? Did they meet/comply with the ABYC standards of E-13? Horrible, horrible decisions - but that might not be the actual cause death.
My condolence to the family. Thank you for this update I know of others which will be at rest to know of this finding. We take things for granted that nothing will happen until it does. Back in June Luciano Mercenari went out on a paddleboard from Key Biscayne Bay in Miami he's still missing and it's July 25th, the paddleboard was recovered 2 weeks ago 39 miles from Keybiscayne. I live on the ICW and see people on jet skis and paddleboards without life vests or belts all the time they're just taking a big chance at what can happen.
I think the fire theory is probably the most likely one, considering there are only a handful of circumstances that would have allowed the couple to escape with a life raft but not without adequate food. A fire rapidly spreading through the main cabin, with large amounts of heat and toxic fumes, would have prevented the couple from accessing any food stores they might have had.
This is an absolute tragedy and I am sure everyone seeing this in the news and on this video feels for the lost soles and their families. As a sailor myself the tought of being in an "abandon ship" situation at sea fills me with dread. An example of how to prepare and survive such a situation can be found on sailing Jambo youtube channel. This single handed German sailor survived the sinking of his boat mid south atlantic purley down to his preparedness, quick thinking and cool decsion making in a bad situation. Its worth a watch. We do not know what went wrong in this case. As a sailing community we should use this tragic loss to learn from. My deepest condolences to the families.
I wish they'd have put some supplies in their dinghy/raft. Even some fishing gear and a small propane stove with a cannister of propane. If they could have fished they even could have eaten the fish raw.
Looks like they had not posted since leaving the harbor? This post has a snippet of a post several miles into the trip. Where was that posted? I wonder what the weather was like out there as it appears they didn't get far? They were reported missing 7 days after they left the harbor and last communication was 2 days into the trip. They look so happy and adventuresome. How sad this happened with the only comfort knowing they looked very happy and loved their adventuring.
Got rid of the engine? Good plan. No EPIRB? Wow! Should have known better on both counts. At least they had a full life but these were catastrophic mistakes.
Got rid of a PERFECTLY good, economical and safe diesel engine ? - BAD PLAN !. No Epirb, total amateurs, whatever they play to on their yoo toob channel. Massive fire risk of a battery pack never designed to be anywhere near salt water ? - utter stupidity. Darwin in action
Too soon for that speculation. Replay 4:50 as the EPIRB may have gone down along with the life raft if they were run down. The tender may be the only thing that floated free. A collision leave no time other than get out to the surface if you are still alive.
Here's what we do know: Attempting a trans-Atlantic voyage in an aging, heavily "DIY-modified", 42-ft. pleasure craft was a regrettable decision. Unfortunately, the crew of Theros fell into a trap that a lot of adventure lovers often do: They over-estimated their capabilities and under-estimated the risks. Whatever was the on-board emergency, it was both immediate and catastrophic. We know this because they failed to make any radio distress calls and no emergency locator beacon was activated. They abandoned ship in extreme haste. The question is, Why? Some speculate Theros was accidentally struck by a large freighter. In my estimation, that idea is not plausible. Larger ships almost universally use radar systems that include both S-band and X-band. The X-band is capable of detecting something as small as a weather buoy. Working together, the S-band and X-band is more than capable of identifying from several miles away a 42-ft. boat with a 30-ft. mast and rigging, and solar panels, sticking out the top of it. This would have given the freighter ample time to take evasive maneuvers, make radio contact with the crew of Theros, and warn them to change course. This makes the "collision theory" unlikely. There are two, more plausible and logical explanations to explore: 1. There was a fast-moving electrical/battery fire aboard Theros that caused them to quickly abandon ship. 2. In moderate to heavy seas, Theros floundered and capsized due to improper balance caused by the numerous modifications (including the removal of one of the masts, the removal of the diesel engine and fuel tanks, the addition of the solar panels and fiberglass superstructure above deck, the addition of the lithium-ion battery packs, electrical inverters, electric motor, etc. ) What do I believe is the likeliest explanation? Every sailor knows the biggest risk to a ship is fire, and that should be the first place we look for potential problems and clues. Unfortunately, Theros has plenty of both. The battery system on board Theros was hocked from a Nissan "Leaf" electric automobile. This is a huge "red flag". The Nissan Leaf's battery system was designed for use in a small, compact automobile, operating on dry land, and was never designed, or intended, to be used in a salt-water marine environment as part of a propulsion system for a vessel weighing several tons. Compounding the problem, the Nissan Leaf battery system was paired with an electric motor, also not designed or intended to be used in a marine environment. Then all of this was Jerry-rigged together with electrical wires, inverters, switches, etc. We don't have to be marine engineers to see how the homebrew, DIY-electrical system aboard Theros was a potential disaster waiting to happen. My best guess is, under load, the electrical system overheated, or shorted out, and caught fire (probably the lithium-ion batteries, which are known to be extremely flammable) and in a matter of moments, not minutes, the boat was engulfed in flames and thick, acrid smoke. The terrified crew hastily abandoned ship, not even having time to issue a distress radio call or grab their "ditch" bags. If this happened at night, the crisis would be even more terrifying in the dark. Why didn't they activate an EPIRB? Some people speculate they did not have an EPIRB (Emergency Position Indicator Radio Beacon) on board Theros. I find that very unlikely. They were fairly experienced sailors and understood the importance of having an EPIRB or similar location beacon in the event of an emergency, especially when embarking on such a long journey to another continent. And EPIRBs are relatively inexpensive, so cost was not prohibitive. The more logical reason they didn't activate their EPIRB is because they were separated from it by the fire. Many sailors keep their EPIRB in their "ditch" bag. I believe the fire and smoke (and potential darkness) prevented them from gaining access to their ditch bags, and they had to abandon ship without them. Why didn't the EPIRB activate automatically? There are two possible logical explanations for this. 1. There are two categories of EPIRBs, I and II. Category I EPIRBs are activated automatically when submerged. However, Category II EPIRBs must be activated manually. If they had a Category II EPIRB, and they were separated from it, they couldn't active it. And it wouldn't activate automatically, even if submerged. 2. The EPIRB, regardless of Category, was destroyed by the fire (along with everything else on board.) One additional fact that points to fire: No flotsam or jetsam from the wreckage of Theros was reported to have been discovered. If Theros capsized, or was struck by a freighter and broke apart, logically we would expect at least some of the flotsam to have followed the same path as the life raft and eventually find its way to Sable Island, too. That has not happened. The fact that no flotsam has been discovered points to the boat being consumed by fire and then disappearing under the water. We will have the results of the autopsies soon enough. If there was a fire on board, there will be ample evidence collected by the medical examiner. If no evidence of fire is found on or in the bodies, the logical explanation moves back towards the boat floundering and capsizing.
Unless criminality is present the Royal Canadian Mounted Police will only release investigation findings including autopsy results to next of kin. So we may never know even though there would learning from this tragedy. Thanks for your thorough analysis. It is so sad this happened 2 days into their voyage and no one knew anything about it for about 3 weeks, wouldn’t they have suffered? Perhaps hypothermia took them quickly. To the family, I am so sorry.
To be clear: Theros DID have an AIS and SART on board. However, it DID NOT have a Category I EPIRB on board. We know this because Category I EPIRBs are required to be registered and there is no record of any such registration associated with Theros. However, it is still possible Theros had a Category II EPIRB on board. These are not required to be registered, and, unlike Category I EPIRBs, Category II EPIRBs require MANUAL activation. If the crew was separated from their EPIRB, which I think is the most likely scenario, they would not have been able to activate it.
@@hazelmatt Thanks. My understanding this is a multi-agency investigation, not just one being conducted by the RCMP. I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that the release of the findings would be a matter of public record due to the nature of the incident.
July 22, 2024 Sable Island National Park Reserve, Nova Scotia News release The remains of a man have been identified after a boat containing two deceased sailors was discovered on the shores of Sable Island National Park Reserve on July 10. The Nova Scotia Medical Examiner Service, with the assistance of RCMP Forensic Identification Services, has determined the remains are those of a 70-year-old British Columbia sailor, who set sail from Halifax Harbour on June 11 aboard the Theros. Work continues to identify the woman's remains. Investigators are confident they are those of the second sailor aboard the Theros, a 54-year-old, from British Columbia; her age was originally reported as 60. Out of respect for the families of the victims and in accordance with the Canadian Privacy Act, the names of the sailors are not being released. At this time, the deaths are not believed to be suspicious in nature. Investigators from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police/Halifax Regional Police Integrated Criminal Investigation Division continue to gather information and analyze evidence in an effort to determine what may have occurred at sea. An update will be issued should the investigation uncover any criminality. Our thoughts are with the victims' loved ones at this difficult time. File #: 24-92827
@@AndrewA-s1m Also note that they had a Garmin inReach aboard, and I would argue they were not using it properly. By that I mean it should have been tracking their progress, sending it to several reliable contacts and with available text messages. If they had done that they would have been reported missing much earlier with an up to date last known position. Not to mention having it close at hand for quick evacuation and hitting the SOS button.
They owned a Leaf…wonder if they cannabilized it? From the limited info I could see, it doesn’t sound like they had extensive offshore experience…the additional DIY mentality didn’t help either. The sea is a cruel mistress if you don’t respect her.
How can you say that, they were utterly clueless and pretty stupid for fitting an ev battery to a sailboat ! - not carrying an eprib ? - unforgivable. Most youtube channels are created by pretty clueless people - especially the 'sailing' ones.
I do not understand why so many uninformed people (including the video maker) are assuming these poor people were unprepared, inexperienced, and foolish people. This is cruel speculation. Tragic accidents happen to to best of well prepared, well equipped experienced sailors more frequently than we realise. The very real possibility of collision was not even mentioned, they were in a shipping lane at their last recorded position and could have encountered a partially submerged container at night, or even been run down by a container ship, or they could have been holed by a whale or iceberg - all are more realistic possibilities than those speculated on here. These people and their families do not deserve this wild speculation by people most of whom have never been to sea on offshore passages, or even sailed at all ... But then, what do I know? I wasn't there, and have only sailed a ross the Atlantic and back twice... I would never presume to speculate on the cause of this tragic accident, especially to garner RUclips clicks!
one of the ways to prevent accidents is to have an awareness of previous incidents, and to learn from them. I never said that these people were unprepared, inexperienced or foolish, but you also don't know what you don't know. Numerous vessels have sunk due to modifications that affected vessel performance. That is a risk. There is a known risk of fire when EV Batteries are exposed to salt water. An inreach is not a substitute for an EPIRB or PLB. Theros was equipped with AIS and Radar. They should have been well visible to Commercial Vessels/been able to see Commercial vessels even in low visibility. There is no reported Ice around Theros last reported position. it should have appeared on radar in any event. I think a collision with a whale/container is possible, these have happened before, but are still very uncommon. Previous cases there was time for an orderly abandon ship.
@@hfxshippingnews The most recent I'm aware of was Alliance in the Newport-Bermuda race. The skippers believe they struck a submerged container which ripped the rudder off the boat. Even with a crew of 8 highly trained people who were experienced, trained for these types of emergencies, and had 2 separate pumps running that were capable of pumping ~7,000 GPH out of the boat, they were forced to evacuate within 40 minutes. The only reason they had so much time was because of how quickly they got their pumps setup and, even then, they were taking on more water than they could get off the boat. A less experienced (and, transparently, less abled) crew of 2 might only have a fraction of that amount of time. Again, not saying they struck a container or that a container strike is more likely than other explanations, but it seems equally as plausible as both the onboard fire theory and the windage / weight change theory.
I think we can all agree that these were experienced sailors and whatever happened, happened fast. No ditchbag, extra water communication devices. There's no way experienced sailors would not have grabbed these prepared supplies if able. I looked at the weather on the dates and it wasn't that bad over their assumed position. I feel for them, their friends, family and fans.
So sad to learn this news. I'm just comforted knowing they pursued their dreams and enjoyed life. So many people come to the end of their life full of regrets and I should haves.
...a few other factors: the last known position (USCG) noted in the video plots Theros directly on a shipping lane; and, the lat & long is also just inside the June maximum iceberg limit (ref: Atlantic Pilot Atlas, 4th edition). Whatever happened, a very tragic and sad incident to say the least.
I think its unlikely they titanic'd. They also had AIS and should have been well visible to commercial shipping, so getting run down is also not likely.
AIS is useful but should never be overly relied upon, in my opinion. Vessels with AIS, radar, professional crew, etc. still manage to collide at times. The assumption that vessels equipped with an AIS are keeping an ongoing vigilant watch and monitoring their radar, AIS and ARPA if fitted, should be a cautious one. An article re Theros this morning in Saltwire, stated there's evidence to suggest their AIS was not in operation after the 11th. Who knows at this point. There could have been a number of contributing factors (e.g., collision with something; fire; combination of same). Seems premature to rule out anything at this point.
The changes to the vessel in terms of weight are pretty insignificant to the stability of a 42' boat. The 'sail area" of the panels would have a greater impact but only in pretty extreme conditions. From my experience at sea AIS is far from fallible in terms of both the equipment and watch keeping on both vessels and to me the most likely scenario is that they were run down by a larger vessel but managed to a abandon ship to the dinghy or liferaft. Given their approach to battery charging (solar, with maybe some diesel back-up?) a battery fire seems a remote possibility.
Apparently, they had a SART. And we do not know if they had an EPIRB or not. It is possible all of these devices were destroyed by a fast moving electrical fire. Or, in the case of the EPIRB, they may have not been able to reach it to activate it. Not all EPIRBs are self-activating. Only Category I devices self-activate.
@@AndrewA-s1m I heard that they did not have an EPIRB and I have not seen anything to say they had a SART either. They are not common in small yachts (but I'd have one). If you buy an EPIRB you get a Class 1 and register it, to do anything else is foolish especially if you are sailing and might have periods with nobody on watch. If there was a fast moving fire, how did they launch and inflate a liferaft? Were the bodies found covered in smoke or evidence of burns. Be careful making up scenarios.
@@csjrogerson2377 If you listen to the video above, it confirms the ship had both an AIS and SART, yet here was no registration of a Category I EPIRB. However, Category II EPIRBs are not required to be registered, so it is possible, and in my estimation likely, they had a Category II EPIRB on board. I speculate that, due to the nature of the emergency, they were separated from it and were unable to activate it manually, as is required with Category II EPIRBs. They do not activate automatically they way Category I EPIRBs do.
@@AndrewA-s1m Yes I know, but the reports I had did not say that. I know that Cat II EPIRBS are not registered. My point is, and I had been at sea for 37 yrs, is that you'd have to be an idiot to do trans-atlantics with a non-automatically operated, non-registered EPIRB Cat II. Get a CAT 1 it could save your life. Understand now?
@@csjrogerson2377 Regarding the Cat I EPIRB, I could not agree more. However, being frank, that was only one of many decisions that were... questionable. They seemed like very nice people, with good intentions, who just over-estimated their capabilities and under-estimated the risks. Murphy's Law is alive and well, unfortunately.
The presenter information about the Nissan Leaf battery package is very interesting explanation for a fire on board. The crew not having personal locating beacon strapped to their life jackets is just plain foolish for a crossing ..JMO.
I hear a lot of speculation here. There seems to be a shortage of basic facts, like was the inflatable the life raft or the dink? If it was the dink, did the motor still work? What supplies & equipment were with them? Was there an apparent cause of death? I'm not going to speculate. I would be interested in hearing more information.
Actually, there are quite a few facts that have been established: We know, for instance, the kinds of heavy modifications they made to vessel, including the removal of one of the masts, the addition of solar panels and a fiberglass superstructure above deck, the removal of the diesel engine and fuel tanks, the installation of lithium-ion batteries and other electrical components, etc. We know they used batteries and other components not designed for marine applications (and the inherent dangers associated with this decision.) We know they did not have marine engineering backgrounds, nor did they consult a professional marine engineer on the use of these non-marine components (because no marine engineer would recommend using electric car batteries in a marine application.) We know they had a great deal of experience sailing under diesel power, but had comparatively little experience sailing under electric propulsion. We know they did not have a Category I EPIRB on board because there is no record of one being registered to the vessel. None of this is speculation, I am sorry to say.
Yes, my thoughts are also a catastrophic fire led to a scrambled disembarkment of the mother ship into the most available dingy. A battery out of a Nissan Leaf car, which I believe is Lithium Ion based, could be the likely suspect. A LiFePo battery bank would be a much safer option on a boat. Will be interesting to find out the real cause of this sad story.
The fact that they had that battery pack on board 😬 if there’s a fire… it’s really more like jet exhaust than flame, you’re lucky to make it out, let alone grab anything to take with you
The battery fire theory makes sense. In an abandon-ship situation these experienced sailors would have been in their life raft, unless something prevented them reaching it, like the boat was on fire. They took to the dinghy because it was being towed and was not ablaze. Lack of an EPIRB activation is puzzling but also explainable. In any case RIP and hopefully in their deaths the couple taught us all something
@@kingsolaa I agree. But in their videos I don't see the dinghy transported any other way but towed with a motor on it. If the battery fire theory is true, doing so may have saved their lives, if only for a short time
As someone who did an electric conversion on a 40 foot bluewater sailboat. Not that it is the cause but they absolutely chose the wrong battery. You never chose a Lithium ion battery..you chose LiFePo4 batteries or if you can afford them..lithium titanate. Too many people chose the wrong battery and it gives all lithium batteries a bad name.
Assuming what the video proposes as true, did their new powerplant installation meet ABYC E-13? Did they use a certified ABYC technician for advice, inspection, or to perform the work? Was the equipment installed Marine UL / ABYC approved and or certified? Did their insurance company approve such modifications? Too many red flags.
Hence required regulation, inspection, certification on all systems of vessel. Marine navigation licence to operate. Preserve SAR/Coast Guard and civilian volunteers. Charge/ fine negligent ' sailors '.
the weight of the solar panels and hard Bimini could have sunk the boat? (presumably by creating too much weight too high up) I find that hard to buy. it's a 42' sailboat, the keel must have weighed many tons.
For the love of god people. Please stop retrofitting old lithium vehicle batteries into boats and houses. It is beyond stupid. For one thing, these are pulled most of the time from wrecked vehicles and are therefore already at very high risk of failure. But also by the very nature of ev lithium it is designed to be highly unstable compared to solar storage lithium like lifepo4 simply because of the need to deliver very high currents to the drive motors and to charge extremely quickly. You are literally installing time bombs in your houses. Im an electrical engineer who specializes in renewable off grid and microgrid solutions, and every time i see it makes my skin crawl. The failure rate on these systems is horrifically high and let me tell you when it goes it is not something that you can even hope to slow down or stop. Youll be damned lucky to escape with your and your loved ones lives. Stop installing chemical bombs in your f**king houses/boats!!! If your going to go lithium at least ensure you have sealed 12v lithium units with a good bms from a reliable manufacturer. Also if you do it still know even with lifepo they can still fail and light off, and if they do, DO NOT attempt to fight the fire. Evacuate NOW. You will not be able to extinguish that fire no matter what. Your boat/home is a write off. No extinguishers, suffocation, or water has a hope in hell of putting lithium out and if the fire doesnt get you, the immediate and lethal smoke/fumes will.
Words of wisdom. It would seem they "cheaped" out on their DIY solar project to the point I highly doubt he was an engineer. The EPIRB situation also indicates that safety was not high on their list.
Very good theory. Sailboats like that don’t just sink that fast very often. Sailboats are often found abandoned floating for years sometimes. Top heavy and lithium car batteries have nothing to do with level of experience sailing. This is the most plausible thing I’ve heard Thanks for the video
They ended up in the inflatable, not the life raft. Either the life raft failed or the liferaft was 'inaccessible ' when it was time to bail out. To me that may imply that it was a rapid bailout from the vessel, and if the inflatable was towed , and therefore not permanently affixed to the vessel itself, then the inflatable may have escaped whatever calamity occurred to the Theros itself, maybe from the parting of the bow painter. I would say battery fire , catastrophic knockdown, or ship collision. Also, if there is no evidence of a bailout bag or salvaged provisions from the inflatable then that might indicate a rapid sinking.
Whatever the reason two lovely people are gone I hope they did not suffer and are sailing up on high looking down on us all condolences to family and friends............
Pretty awful outcome and pause for thought for any of us who venture offshore. I haven't seen any reports on what the weather conditions were at the time of their disappearance. Curious about the epirb ... you'd think they'd carry one and you'd think it would more likely than not to have saved them. If they did have a battery fire on board that would indeed be catastrophic. When those things go they really go, with huge amount of heat and as you say pretty much impossible to deal. Not sure about your conclusion on the hard top. This would be a boat with displacement in excess of 20,000 lbs. The hard dodger would be say something like 200 to 400 lbs, so I can't see it having anything other than a very minor effect on stability. Also, removing engine is unlikely to cause a catastrophic effect on stability IMO. The keel ballast on this type of boat would be somewhere in the region of 5,000-7000 lbs. If the engine is roughly 500 lbs its removal should not be a show stopper. Also, likely he put the battery where the engine was or at least low down, and reasonable to assume roughly similar weight if not heavier than the removed engine. Apart from a battery fire, another other cause could be a skin fitting failure but you'd think he'd have systems in place to mitigate for this. A collision of some sort?
In one of their videos, he said that he removed the engine and gas tanks, which he estimated at several thousand pounds. He said the bow of the boat tipped down, and he was thinking of ways to address. Additionally, he removed a sailing mast, to make room to install solar panels. The boat also had a shallow keel on it.
@@michaelsnively3621 where did he put the battery? You'd think it would be heavy enough to counter the weight effects of removing a heavy diesel engine. Also, being an engineer and experienced sailor I think it unlikely he would accept a drastic change in fore/aft waterline without correcting
Lack of information. A liferaft would have had minimal water onboard. If they were in an open dinghy, with no grab bag, that suggests they may have abandoned ship in a hurry, either through a failed shaft seal or fire. Must have been something odd with the winds, as they are usually predominately Westerlies and they seem to have drifted East. Not a good way to go.
I think we can assume it happened very quickly. They did not launch the life raft. They got in the inflatable, I'm assuming this was on tow, but did not have time to fits the outboard (am I correct it had no motor on when found?) not that the range would be much. They also had no time to pack water and food or the hand held radio. To me this suggests they had minutes at best and if it was a fire then perhaps the life raft and radio were early losses to the fire. Modifications before a major incident always make me uneasy if they have not been independently assessed and tested and some shakedown trips done. Do we know the time line? I take it that the life-raft did not have self release gear but was hard strapped to the deck?
Maybe one of them fell overboard and the one onboard deployed the emergency dinghy because they didn't have the knowledge/confidence/ability to adjust the sails in time as the distance was increasing. They reached the person in the water but were unable to catch up with the boat. You can easily live without food for two weeks but not water. Especially if you lose your mind from thirst and start drinking salt water.
All that money into alternative energies but nothing spent on a commonsense rescue device. I'm sure they had some agonizing days and nights floating out there lementing all of this. Then to endure watching their spouse succumb.
That's a tragic story. In a raft with no water they probably wouldn't survive for more than a week. We may never know what happened to them which caused them to evacuate the vessel in such a hurry, probably with no supplies.
Reminds me of a book I read years ago, forget the name, but it was about an Aussie yacht that went missing but reports of it popping up around the coast of the Golden Triangle persisted for years. Drug runners and missing boats are a thing.
@@AndrewA-s1m The Golden Triangle is in Asia mate. The yacht was called "Patanela" and there were credible reports for a decade plus of it showing up in Thailand and remote parts of Australia. Plenty of drug busts happen in the Atlantic, how do you think snow gets from the Americas and west Africa to Europe?
In my humble opinion, sailing from Halifax to the Azores requires the sailor to be very very experienced. I wonder how much experience these folks had sailing out in the open ocean over a long distance?? RIP to both of them and condolences to the family.
" I wonder how much experience these folks had sailing out in the open ocean over a long distance??" They "sailed" from Vancouver island down to the Panama canal and then up the coast to Nova Scotia. Mostly coastal, with a lot of motoring. No sign of them ever doing a longer passage, it looks like this was their first.
Countless sailors have died at sea since the first ones went to sea, no mystery there. The sea is an unpredictable foe or friend, depending on its mood.
I did not read all the postings, but it is clear to me that this couple either died from hypothermia or lack of water or food or both. In those waters even a GUMBY suit will not keep you warm enough to survive more than a couple of hours is you are setting in water and waves coming aboard the raft or dink. The other thing that I don’t remembering seeing is if the EPIRB was actually registered or registered to this couple. It is the responsibility of the owner operator to every five years now. In the beginning and until recently it was an annual registration. After spending twenty-five years of delivering sailing vessels, I personally insure that all of my personal safety beacons are operational (complete safety test on units). I also, make sure that all beacons that are already onboard are currently registered by the owner. I’m sold water deliveries it is imperative that cold water survival equipment is on board and all crew can put them on quickly and efficiently. Most vessels, when sinking, take less than ten (10) minutes. So, an emergency “Go-Bag) is kept near the companionway, and all the crew should know what their assignment is when it is know the vessel is going down. Horrible incident and I am very sorry for those loves ones they have left behind… CJohn
Tragic. I think it’s a good idea to have suits, water, emergency equipment and food ready. Time permitting take the life raft (cover) first and if you can throw your dinghy with whatever you manage to throw in. I have experienced a loss of my home caused by a fire it may for sure startle you depending on how things go. I am a former air line captain and I will train some kind of emergency evacuation once I got my boat. This will not help these poor people. Wrong or right discussion won’t help either when the outcome is fatal but we all can learn from it and make up our minds what to do if this ever happens. My condolence to the family and friends
I think that that is a real shame. Very unfortunate loss of two people who seem very compatible and adventurous I have to say though that they had the financial resources to equip themselves with an epirb and Halon fire suppression systems I have a 28 ft sportfish boat with twin inboards and each has its own halo on can it seems to me that would be a fairly straightforward and affordable way to reduce the risk of a fire taking their boat out
Regarding the comments about weight distribution, following removal of a diesel engine and replacement with a Leaf battery pack: A typical Yanmar is 200kg; the Leaf battery pack alone is 300KG. If anything replacement would have increased gross weight, not reduced OR redistributed it.
I don't know why the author of this vid used the weight distribution due to the mods as a potential reason the boat was lost. it borders on absurd and detracts from an otherwise knowledgeable discussion
Respectfully, your analysis is quite flawed. They removed the diesel engine AND the diesel fuel tanks. The total weight loss from both would amount to around 2,400 lbs. (about 600 lbs. for the engine, and 1,800 pounds for 250 gallons of diesel fuel.) Also, they removed one of the sailing masts and rigging, resulting in even more weight loss and alteration to the boat's balance/center of gravity as it was originally designed. The battery pack from a Nissan Leaf only weighs about 600 lbs. Clearly, these changes would result in a significant net loss in ballast. Additionally, the placement of the solar panels and the fiberglass superstructure ABOVE deck, would negatively effect the balance of the Theros, especially in high winds and rough seas. These folks were not marine engineers or naval architects. Making modifications of this magnitude without consulting the services of professional engineers and/or architects was, at a minimum, questionable decision making. We don't yet know if these changes directly, or indirectly, lead to the emergency that caused them to abandon ship. But, that doesn't make these changes any less questionable.
As an airline pilot and a skipper,I hold lithium batteries dangerous as they come.There is no way you can douse a lithium battery with a small fire extinguisher.Fiberglass will catch fire in no time with that kind of batteries.May God have mercy on them.My condolences.An Epirb on board could have saved their lives.PS:I love my old diesel engine tucked down below with 400kg weight.
Quantity Vs quality. I have an air cooled Sichuan Sifa 3 HP air cooled diesel with a 7 inch pulley and 1 inch shaft adapter. This is an easy, light, and reliable way to supply wattage in quantity. Don't look for trouble on the sea.
Interesting. There are many dozens (100's?) of sailing channels on YT. Sailing the Med, Caribbean, around the world. Check them out. ALL of them have solar to charge their house batteries of which MOST are LiFePo... or they plan on going to that. Some have a separate gas or diesel genset others have a high output alternator on their diesel engine or engines! Many are also getting rid of propane for cooking and are using induction instead. More battery storage needed for that plus more solar. From the dozens if very capable world sailors that I watch, you are an outlier. Delos, Nahoa, One Life, Atticus, Calico Skies, Breaking Waves, Sweet Ruca, WE Sail.... so many more.
@@rickkwitkoski1976 Hold on. Sailboats should have solar panels but they never have enough. My diesel is friendly. 44 LBS out of the crate. Perfect for cloudy weeks when you get almost no charge. I don't like Nissan Leaf batteries in cars, so why would I put one in a boat? Sailboats have the nicest propane stoves around. Try soldering pipes on your electric range.
I'm in agreement with the suspicion of fire from Li-ion repurposed Leaf battery pack. These IIRC are pouch cells ( not the best design of battery IMO) in a can and if the BMS was not installed and/or configured correctly could lead to overcharging causing the pouches to swell then burst into flames. If they fail to an internal short, they're going to do that anyway. Li-ion IMO has absolutely no place on a boat period. LiFePo4, OTO, are a MUCH safer choice, but with any used vehicle battery comes potential failure issues. I've read of many Leaf and similar pouch module fires and failures from those using them in their homes as solar storage. The 18650 type LiFePo4 cell, as used in an EV pack is much safer. As I am also a sailor as well as a retired ATT power guy, a sudden fire in a Leaf pack would leave no choice but to use the dink as they may have had no time or access to the ditch bag or life raft mounted forward of the mast due to the fire if it was in the salon and that means no food, fresh water, flares, or comms. These types of fires are extremely hot and fast and once the 'glass catches, it's over. Depending on design of the boat, the batteries would in a compartment somewhere near amidships to balance weight (no list) and I suspect poss divide into 2 segments, port and starboard for balance (An upgrade video to see how configured was not found on their channel). I've done a lot of research over the last 10 years on re-use EV packs as house batteries for a Bristol 32 and a Morgan 41 (current boat) and anything like the Li-ion Leaf would NEVER be a choice due to their (and all other Li-ions) tendency to burn during failure. As a final opinion, never reuse an EV pack on a boat....ever. Cheaper options for purpose built LiFePo4 batteries are every where (NOT Battleborn...overpriced). Especially those using CALB cells. Rest In Peace, Sailors. "May Legions of Angels Sing Ye To Rest" 🙏
I think sailors consider the Atlantic Ocean as a dangerous passage due to wind and storms that pass thru that region. I think they had a battery fire or got hit by a shipping container perhaps. RIP
They had a Leaf, and I vaguely recall something about them getting a new car, so maybe they took the battery out of their old car. Tragic loss. I hope the authorities do find out what happened so it never happens again.
What was the weather like in the area at that time, if a storm caused water to get into the boat and start a fire then the weather would help with a timeline and currants would help to give a drift rate and possable location. Given where the boat they were found in was the currand and wind traced back to their intended track might help with a location as would and aiis track hisory. its also posable a collision or Orca encounter might have started the chain reaction.
Almost all Epirbs I've seen on boats are fixed and would not release automatically. Personally i have a plb a d AIS in my life jacket but seldom have it on. It hangs in the cockpit.
i agree its unlikely, but it was suggested as a possibility by a professional mariner. I included it more to make a point about the impact changes can have on vessel stability.
@@hfxshippingnews Do journalists know the difference between an inflatable and a RIB? She had no davids ( 2:38 ) So if she had a RIB it would have been stowed inverted on the foredeck. An inflatable would be deflated into a cockpit locker. No way would you tow a dinghy across the Atlantic! The Leaf battery would have been installed under the cockpit to maintain trim ( 800 lb battery verses 800 lb diesel engine ) . Fibreglass burns very fiercely so a battery fire would quickly make the cockpit and companionway inaccessible. Also this would stop access to an inflatable, let alone the time it takes to inflate it. Maybe the fire stopped access to a grab bag? I agree with @SailorJames and sadly your 'expert' is not, in this instance. I also discount orcas as explained in comments above. So being run down or hitting a container are two possibilities. If so, why wasn't the life raft used and a grab bag found? Very sad and very strange.
Sometimes people get a little too sure they can handle anything and stop practicing their safety drills. Now with the focus of the voyage being to film it adds another complication to push safety and preparedness to the back burner. Remember safety drills prepare you for the urgency of an emergency and not to panic and run off without taking any of your safety supplies.
I would never replace the engine with battery powered propulsion! It's a sailboat and most of the time you're sailing anyway. They could have something in the water too. It's happened numerous times. I'd have at least 2 or 3 epirbs aboard. Anyway it's tragic.
Coast guard, do and fire departments showed up the day they rolled the boat over, off of Halifax , but when the hailed their S.O.S. they hailed it off for my harbour instead of Halifax harbor
Really Sad news to see Sailors pass away like this, but it does beg the question as to why they didn't have an EPIRB , yes it's a fair cost but is an absolute MUST for offshore passage making on any vessel.
The hydrostatic release function releases the EPIRB from its float-free bracket. Once the EPIRB is released and exposed to the water, it automatically activates via the water activated switch. The EPIRB floats to the surface of the water with the aerial pointing vertically and the distress signal is transmitted.
@@antc5010 I call BS, and I’m not a sailor but, “just because you can, doesn’t mean you should” there are SO many reasons for going with, “time tested”. Reliability matters in situations where “it has to get done” or you lose you life. The whole electric thing may be “green” and “innovative” and even trendy, but simply a bad choice when the crap hits the fan! Should we innovate? Absolutely YES! But not when the risk is too high and not where reliability is a must.
@antc5010 Diesels are tried and true.. Been around for over 100 years.. I can rebuild my diesel. Also my fuel isn't explosive like batteries are.. Imagine, putting something that reacts violent to water, in something that goes on the water and has water inside and all around.. Keep your electric motors, ill take my Perkins.
@@Studio51media You can call whatever you like. If we had your attitude all the time people would never have taken to flight because we "could". There are many ocean global cruising yachts on the water powered by electric propulsion. I would never make a DIY system with EV batteries. I have no idea what motor was used. Oceanvolt are well reknown for their marine electric propulsion systems. No everyone's choice, but that's the point. It's a free world and just because people think differently does not make it BS.
If the Nissan Leaf battery caught fire then it might explain why they were in the dinghy, if the life-raft was damaged or not accessible due to the flames.
A lot of speculation, people love jumping into conclusions, this video doesn't help the matter other than provide more fuel for speculations. Making claims or speculations prior to autopsy results is not reaally helpful.
Many facts have been established that call into question certain decisions made by this couple prior to embarking on such a perilous journey. None of it is speculation. And I get no pleasure from saying it. However, I do believe that referencing these facts may help other sailors avoid making similar decisions and perhaps avoid tragedy.
That's a whole lot of speculating you're doing here. 'There were clearly a number of failures"? No, the only thing clear is that something bad happened and they died. It's possible it was a single event beyond their control. It's possible it was a cascade of failures due to errors modifying the boat. It's possible it was any of a million other things that can happen on the open ocean. Based on the available information, can we say that any one of those possibilities more likely than another? Nope. I get it, we're all prone to guess about what happened.when things like this occur, but making a video of those guesses for thousands to see is bad form.
He speculated on what could have caused the accident and with that it gives other adventurer’s a bit to reflect on and learn so hopefully it could maybe prevent another accident. Accident review is a great tool for learning. OF COURSE IT IS TERRIBLE AND VERY SAD LIFE WAS LOSS,but with reflection on what may have happened maybe it might not agin. Kinda like when you mark donor on your drivers license🤷♂️
@@cnc75adventures49 I agree that accident review is a great tool for learning IF it is evidence based. But guessing about what happened without evidence is just entertainment. It has zero educational value, and can even be dangerous as it can prevent the real lesson from being learned.
Well done video. I saw the news clip on this and have wondered what happened. I see the small Honda generator and gas cans on the deck in that video. I hope they didn’t have a mishap trying to use that rest in peace sailors.
They’ve done a lot of sailing. Unless it’s confirmed otherwise, I’m going to believe that they did have an EPIRB and the rest of the safety gear they should have onboard and that something very unusual or fast and overwhelming happened on that boat. Likewise I do not believe the “one fell overboard and the other came out in the dinghy, then couldn’t get back to the boat” story - takes a special kind of stupid IMO to do that kind of mistake. Massive battery fire? Seems like a probable cause- if it burns fast and hot enough that maybe the reason there was no EPIRB activation - the fire damaged or destroyed it before it could be used.
So sorry to see this. I worked with Sarah in South Sudan back in the 1990's with Save the Children Fund. They lived life full on.
Sarah sounds like she was a remarkable woman, from what I read. She must’ve been pretty brave, to take on such a sailing journey. May she rest in peace. I’m sorry for your loss. ❤🕊️
She had amazing stories of her time there
Was she working with an immigration NGO ?
Wow, just happen to see a few wild crazy sailing story, I happen to be u tubers and having a good time, nuts, you met them and see this sad news..
Solar vs electric... That's nuts you guys have to give a report they should have been experts sailors
Sorry for the loss of this wonderful couple, my heart goes out to their families and friends
I sail alone, I have an EPIRB on the boat and a Personal Locator Beacon carried on my body. When I speak with other sailors, it strikes me that they think that the $400 spent on the PLB, which sends signals directly to the satellites, which is accurate to 100 meters, which you can carry on your body, is just too much money.
My life jacket cost more than $400 an I am on a fixed income. Motorcycle helmets commonly cost twice that. Motorcycle/horseback riding airbag vests cost twice that. Riding boots are $400. Even a good leather jacket an a cheaper helmet will set you back $400. If they are not willing to pay what the average kid pays for safety gear to ride a motorcycle, how did they even afford a boat? I wonder if the helicopter fuel to come get them cost to much to?
@@RebelCowboysRVs Christ on a cracker! where are you buying gear, that a M. Helmet is costing you $800?
@@RebelCowboysRVs Long ago when I worked at a motorcycle shop we had a standard response to people who complained about helmet prices: "What's your head worth to you?". Kind of puts the importance of personal safety gear into the proper perspective, doesn't it?
@@Bamamarama decent helmets start at that these days mate. My last Arai was over a grand. Well worth it.
@@P_RO_I tell people, if you have a $10 head then go ahead and wear a $10 helmet. ATGATT.
I saw online this morning about the tragedy this couple endured. Sooo very sorry to see this. My heart goes out to their family and friends. Since this morning I've been watching so many of their videos and felt like I knew them. Such a lovely couple. 😢
🤔 *First:* Because the Keel would weigh a few tons in these craft, a monohull like this can only get momentarily 'knocked down' by wind, and will never "capsize" and flip upside down unless caught in a huge wave from the side at the same time where water movement adds to the rolling (being broached).
Also; their water tanks will likely have been at _full capacity_ for their long trip, adding many kilograms (+300 to 800kg).
If however the keel was to fall off due to collision with a large submerged object (container, Ice etc), any yacht will then capsize and sink - most monohulls (unlike catamarans) do not have built-in positive buoyancy, and once water gets in ... down they go!
*Second:* Saying that the weight shift of a few solar panels and the engine swap would be a concern (even for a knock-down) is like worrying that you'll become airborne in a storm while holding your umbrella.
Neither the weight of the panels, their windage, nor the strength of the solar panel fittings would conform to lend that theory significant credibility as a singular causal factor IMO.
Orcas however, have been known to rip out rudders causing sinking, but this is not usually a problem on the type of skegged rudder design of their vessel due to the added strength and support of the lower pivot plate.
The vessel has not yet been located: It is _possible_ it was hijacked.
I heard no mention of cause of death.
Valuable comment! I too would first think of some sort of collision, whether with marine life, ice, or an adrift container - or piracy we lost good friends who were very experienced and well prepared to pirates.
These were intelligent people who seemed well prepared...
They don't deserve this uninformed speculation.
@@lapsedluddite3381piracy near Canada? Targeting a sailboat? Ahh, cmon…
@@lapsedluddite3381 There's no ice in this area, not even in winter.
@@lapsedluddite3381I don’t think HSN Transport is uninformed. Everything he says makes sense to me. Thinking there are hijackings or ice in this area is uninformed guesswork. Transport may be assuming if there was a collision with a log, dead whale, etc. would give the crew enough time to at least get off a distress call.
Sad there was no EPIRB mounted outside. Because of the unclear report by the Mounties, the public doesn’t know if they were found in a round life raft, or a ten foot long zodiac-type dinghy. The life raft would have given them the means to have food, water, flares, high visibility from the sky, and protection from the wind.
The ten’ dinghy/ life boat just would have kept them out of the ocean. We don’t know if they were able to board the raft or the ten’ zodiac from their yacht, or were forced to board from the water.
The coroner will reveal if there was a fire.
I’ve looked at battery info from Nissan Leafs. A man uploaded a detailed instruction video on how to change Leaf batteries. They have a history worth looking into. Using salvaged batteries is a concern.
I guess we have to just be patient and wait for more information.
@@screamingsixties Oat Island pirates no doubt.
I take comfort that they were together, and found. Bless.😢
They would have been found alive together for an additional $500 spent on just 1 personal locator beacon.
I’m sorry but I’m sure one died before the other plus the way they died is horrific. I wonder why they were not prepared with something to help them
@@canadafragrancereviewerdia9119
These are my thoughts too, what a horrific death.
@@borys2767
I am an absolutely shocked they weren't better prepared.
What a truly awful way to die.
Everyone will be a critic on this one. But, here goes: Reportedly the couple did not have an EPIRB, which to me is an utter essential for offshore. Anything less is insufficient. Secondly, a large can or cube of freshwater should always be close at hand for moving into any dinghy or liferaft. Thirdly, a satellite phone should be on the list of "should have".
I thing you’ve jumped to a conclusion about the batteries. By far the most likely is a weather related event(capsize, flooding). Next is hitting a submerged object( reef, wreck, container, wildlife). It was obviously a catastrophic event for them to deploy and escape in a life raft. Fire is a definite possibility but not the most likely. Probably died of exposure . Be interesting to know if they had time to get into immersion suits. If they didn’t that tells you the speed of the event that led them to abandon ship. There’s wild horses on sable island so there must be potable water. Shame they didn’t make it there alive.
@@wernesgruder1cape sable sea monster
@@wernesgruder1 "Fire is a definite possibility but not the most likely. "
Nothing but a high temperature rapid fire explains the circumstances.
you actually dont know what they really had or didnt, you saw what their RUclips personas wanted you to think but thats not reality. in fact hypothermia kills before dehydration that far north anyway so are you gonna claim its their fault for not bringing their heater?
@@norml.hugh-mann "you actually dont know what they really had or didnt, you saw what their RUclips personas wanted you to think"
It was very clear from their videos that he was very cavalier about safety.
They didn't have offshore grade foul weather gear, they had inshore inflatable vests with no harness which they rarely wore.
PLB's with SART on lifejackets is kinda a good idea.
They had an EPIRB which was not registered and kept inside.
He removed a mast, the man overboard pole and the RADAR reflector, and a throwable life ring from the back of the boat.
He consulted no one and disregarded advice concerning his imbecilic battery conversion.
It is very doubtful he had insurance with that conversion.
"gonna claim its their fault for not bringing their heater?"
You don't bring a "heater".
You have immersion suits.
You have an offshore category liferaft with a double floor for insulation, with EPIRB, and maybe a sat communicator and radio.
That will no doubt all come out in the inquiry.
When and if it is fully released to the public is another thing
The old adage: Ask 5 sailors for an opinion, and you will get 8. Replacing a safety and performance-known diesel engine with a used Leaf EV battery seems to be a significant risk amplifier. It is quite possible that, if a battery fire initiated, smoke would render the boat toxic within half a minutes, with water fueled combustion starting not many seconds later. If there was a satellite beacon on board, it might have been rendered inaccessible almost immediately.
Watch the china elevator battery fire .
Less than 3 seconds . Horrific out at Sea , IMHO .
ruclips.net/video/eA8BNqEhuzE/видео.html&ab_channel=Factly
seems like a fire that intense would have burned an inflatable liferaft too..or at least left some sort of evidence detectable on the victims or liferaft. Im sure all the loudmouth "anything to speed up climate change by burning more oil" crowd would have already released any actual evidence if there were any so your just pushing your bias against electric vehicles as some kind of scenario while we all no there is ZERO evidence of fire...seems like your trying to soil the ideas of the lost couple by pushing the exact propaganda they fought against about sustainable propulsion trying to exploit their demise to push an agenda that just keeps making the world worse and the rich richer,,,,shameful
My condolences to the families of the deceased. They perished doing what they loved and that is better than living without ever having followed your dreams! RIP.
Nicely done commentary on the possible cause of this accident.
An EPIRB can save your life. Attempting a transatlantic crossing without one is insanity
They had EPIRB, SART and InReach.
@@misarthim6538 the video does not state they had an epirb. Was that info from another source? The other items would not be accessed if the emergency required very quick action and they didnt have time before the boat would sink. So many questions...
@@mgillee1 Actually, you're right, my bad. I misheard when they said 'another POSSIBILITY is that they had an EPIRB but it was mounted inside'. There's no indication they had one, at least not registered one apparently. Such a tragic loss of life.
@@misarthim6538 And the Inreach can send an SOS which is sent to Garmin Response.
@@misarthim6538 I don't believe that for a minute. You're saying they had multiple safety devices, but somehow activated none of them before or after they climbed in their dinghy? ?
To be fair to the deceased couple, NOBODY would be capable of fighting a lithium battery fire at sea.
It would be a highly charged situation, for sure
@@vangroover1903 yep it would've gone from positive to negative real quick
Fire departments are having difficulty fighting EV battery fires. I'm not sure what could be done on a boat to extinguish an EV battery fire.
Dont tell that to Marioff, they specialize in lithium battery fire suppression systems ... including Yachts.
Boats typically use a lithium iron phosphate batteries, which are far less power dense than EV batteries and not prone to fire.
Unless they were towing the dinghy behind the boat I don't think a fire caused this accident. If the dinghy would have been on the boat and a fire started, they would not have had the time to get that dinghy overboard and jump into it. When a fire starts you may perhaps have 3 - 5 min (at best) before the fire forces you to jump into the water.
Therefore I am more thinking in the line of hitting a submerged item in the sea, causing a leakage and sinking of the boat. They may have tried to call via radio, but as we all know, when you are out of range you can shout as much as you like, nobody is going to hear you.
I would have expected a hand held radio with extra batteries in the grab bag. They were close to shipping lanes and if they would have seen a ship on the horizon at least they could have called. On top of that, any SAR aircraft would be able to hear the distress call as well. When equipped with a direction finder it becomes pretty easy to find the survivors. As a former SAR pilot I can tell you that we never lost a single person in the Caribbean when they had a radio or an epirb. Those were the quick and easy rescues, 100 % success was guaranteed. So anyone setting out to sea, make sure you have a waterproof hand held radio (with extra batteries) to increase your chances of survival. When you make ocean crossings, an EPIRB is a must. Don't even think of leaving without one.
Sound advice!
I think they were towing the dinghy.
@@hazelmatt You wouldn't normally tow a dinghy on an offshore passage.
Where would the dinghy have been? I’m not a sailor.
They were towing the dingy as they are that type of NON blue water cruisers. Clueless really.
My thoughts when I heard that they'd fitted a Lithium Ion battery from a car, was 'Oh Jesus' - My guess is they slung the battery low to keep the metacentric height low and when it got wet, a fire started, one that they were incapable of fighting with onboard means and they took to the boat rather than the raft as that was probably stored directly over the battery fire.
A car battery. 😱😱😱😱
Sure the panels and dodger add windage and some balance issues but I can't imagine it's enough to capsize the vessel. Fire seems much more likely especially with electric inboard.
The addons adding windage was suggested to me by a far more experienced mariner then I. I would not have suggested it, if it were not for his experience, and though it worth mentioning for exactly that reason.
not a chance that new structure had anything to do with this. Zero. There was no significant weather they encountered.
@@hfxshippingnewszero chance. you'd need HUGE winds and waves first and second it would break off and fly away long before affecting the vessel. Thats 40 years of my experience saying so.
And I have built many hardtops similar to theirs.
@@NomadSurvivor You have built many along with removing a ton of weight below? I find that unusual as did not think many were removing big heavy diesel engines below for decades as a popular trend.
@@kevinfisher1345 said nothing about weight below. electric propulsion for passages or blue water type sailing is a BAD PLAN
There is no mistake for a reliable diesel to save your life when needed.
Anyways, this tangent has gone far enough. The End.
Very sorry they lost their lives.
That dinghy is 10'. Pretty standard. I think most sailors would go for the dinghy first, especially if it has a motor and large can of gas. If the life raft opened up, tie it to the dinghy -- inside it will give you protection from the sun and wind. If the weather and waves get bad, go in the life raft. Meanwhile the dinghy can motor or be rowed.
That dodger doesn't weigh that much. But electric drive in the north Atlantic? Not a lot of sunshine. The range has to be minuscule. (I've crossed the north Pacific. There were days and days of overcast. Not sure how our solar panels were doing -- but our diesel engines were working just fine.) Could a Leaf battery fit between the hull frame? If not then it could be riding too high.
My 45' Hunter has a diesel engine and 190 gallon tanks. At a gallon an hour gives me 6 knots and a range of 1140 nM. The Leaf battery won't move them that fast and probably won't take them even 100 nM. What were the winds like along their planned route? We had four and five day stretches with not enough wind to do anything but motor. This isn't a problem if you're willing to wait it out.
Two weeks without food is survivable. 5-6 days without fresh water is fatal. Hypothermia and exposure are significant factors.
What would be interesting to know is how they were dressed? What did they have onboard the dinghy? A go bag? Water containers?
With 800 watts of solar on lake Ontario I could do 2 knots indefinitely off the sun on a sunny day on my 40ft heavy bluewater sailboat...but it's a sailboat, the range is infinite
If it was a lithium fire they may have had no time to gather supplies, just to jump in the dinghy and flee as the boat became engulfed in flames.
"think most sailors would go for the dinghy first, especially if it has a motor and large can of gas. "
Uh, no. A dinghy is for going back and forth if you're on a mooring, not for the Atlantic between NS and Sable Island. You'd only take to a dinghy if you had no other option.
Cluster works in strange and mysterious ways.
Rip.
This guy was intent on not using any petroleum powered products. A video from a couple years ago, he talks about selling the 9-10 hp outboard motor for the dingy and replacing it also with an electric one.....
Very sad, they found each other and had each other till the end no matter what the cause. Rest in peace, lovely people.
But they are still dead, and probably died horribly. That's it, game over, nothing more. What a waste for a ridiculous EV battery - definitely THE most likely cause of a catastrophic fire. The Gib Sea 42 is a fabulous boat, there is no way it would 'capsize' and stay inverted. The 'top heavy' comments are nonsense. A lot of windage, but not that would only create weather helm which is ok in a bad blow. NOBODY should ever fit a fine diesel engined sailboat with a useless EV battery that, in salt water, is a time bomb.
@@MevRB19you sound like a lot of fun.
Whatever happened, happened quickly. Most ditch bags, for cruisers, should at least carry a handheld VHF radio, flare gun...you know the rest and maybe a Sat phone. I store my sat phone in the ditch bag and I keep it up off the cabin floor near where I can grab it on the way out quickly. I have a small floatation noodle on it too with a water activated light. How very sad for the family to know they got off the boat but died from the elements. RIP John
Agree it was fast. Found in their 10’ inflatable boat/dinghy indicates no time to launch raft or grab anything.
A massive EV battery run away and explosion could be possible, but no signs (yet) of personal injuries.
Piracy possible but highly unlikely in that area.
A collision, unless cut in half by a large ship would still leave time to grab some things needed for survival.
Certainly mysterious!😢
@@57Jimmywas that confirmed? Found in their dinghy and not life raft?
Indeed. I think I am going to now store my grab bag in the cockpit or at least a cockpit locker. A rapid fire in the cabin with smoke or flames pouring out, would make it difficult to get a grab bag even if it were at the top of the steps in the hatch.
Thank you for the excellent discussion. It makes sense, unlike messing around with sailboat modifications.
Leaf Battery 🤦♂️ (no fighting a lithium fire.. if your lithium goes up… evacuate… that’s all you can do).
If ANY fire becomes uncontainable on a sailboat, then evacuate immediately!
Last time I checked, Leaf batteries were not UL marine / ABYC approved. Using one is the dumbest idea ever.
@@kelvinmagoon another person calling the dead dumb not realizing it exposes how pathetic they are
Very sad, my condolences to their families. Rest in Peace
Wow, thank you for this breakdown! I'm an aspiring sailor and the news article came across my notifications so I really needed some possible ideas on what might have happened. I remember about 15 years ago a family of 4 or 5 with young kids got hit by a South Korean tanker at night and sank them.
Crew must be on watch at all times.
They should easily be able to perform a wipe test on the surface of the dinghy for the remnants of a lithium battery fire if that was the case. Such battery fires would deposit even trace amounts of material that is very difficult to remove from any surfaces.
Solar install nomissue even in 100 knots. But the electric drive sounds probable cause. Or 1000 other reasons. Tragic they survived the initial sinking and lost along the way. Scary stuff
More windage is more windage.
Of all the many safety improvements made over the last one hundred years, one could make a case for diesel engines being the most important. Before their introduction, sailboats were vulnerable to the vagaries of wind and tide, leading to frequent tragegies. And a 40ft boat would probably be capable of carrying enough fuel for a range of 500 NM or more, even in difficult weather. By contrast, an electric driven sailboat has negligible range and limited power - fine for entering and exiting a local marina on a sunny day but not for venturing into challenging crossings.
Yes, the boat itself has a shallow keel, it's a day sailer, they were trying to do too much with too little
Sailing vessel Uma has been fully electric for years and gone all over the place, they are doing a refit right now. But they went to the arctic in a plastic fantastic.
@@CaptMortifyd its a while since I checked up on them but with all their investments and upgrades, I gather that the best they were achieving was 3 hours a day run time and it was closer to 1 hour on back to back days, (both at reduced speeds) depending on how much sun they were receiving. That may be OK in open water, away from land, but if you are fighting a tidal, river or countercurrent that limitation could get you into trouble. Conversely, my 50 year old, reliable little diesel will give me 24 hours of run time, at hull speed, and I can carry enough fuel to keep that up for days at a time. Good luck to them both but, to be clear, we are a long way from electric propulsion being viable for boats off grid.
You make an excellent point. In my estimation, the genesis of this tragedy was their initial decision to retrofit their vessel with an experimental, DIY-electric propulsion system and toss out the proven, extremely reliable diesel engine (and the method of propulsion for which the vessel was designed.) While I appreciate they had good intentions, the fact remains it was a sail boat. There is nothing more "green" than harnessing the power of the wind. Removing a sailing mast to install solar panels seems counterproductive to the "going green" desire right from the go.
@user-gh2ys9km2o Unfortunately, there is too much hype and too little inforned discussion about renewable energy. An EV achieves it's 300 mile range because, once it has accelerated and reached cruising speed, it's energy needs are negligible. Conversely, a displacement hull has to constantly push water aside, never achieving real momentum. Similarly, an EV recovers much of the energy it expended in acceleration when decelerating (regenerative braking), something that displacement hulls cannot achieve. Maybe when EV battery technology can achieve a 1,000 mile range, electric propulsion for sailboats may become viable for local, coastal, cruising but that day is decades away
Your assumptions about the weight of the hard top (which appears to be made out of foam composite) and the solar panels implying that it was going to affect stability is nonsense. As someone said, their water tanks would be full, their supplies full and modern day boats or this type are just not that tippy. God knows what has happened to these people, fire, hitting something. They were clearly experienced-- a very sad story.
cape sable sea monster robby ross
It wasn’t just the weight of the panels but the surface area. It’s possible that the aerodynamics of the panels caused some issues with proper handling in high winds.
@@leafbitagricultureimaging8892 I very, very, very much doubt this. There are thousands or yachts sailing all over the world with solar set ups like that, including on my own boat. It just not the issue!
While changing the balance of the boat may not make it capsize, it could cause it to be difficult to maneuver, especially in rough seas and high winds. The boat could flounder, take on water, and eventually lose buoyancy. Single-hull boats, like the Theros, will sink like stones once buoyancy is lost. So, in that regard, all those modifications could have lead to the vessel's doom.
But, personally, I believe the boat was most likely lost due to a fire from the homebrew DIY-electrical system.
I've heard highly respected and experienced sailors criticize overloading the stern with solar panels and davits and stuff, for reasons to do with seaworthiness. It's fine most of the time, but I suppose that in bad enough conditions, it could become an issue with the added surface area and weight up top. I'd be curious to hear what a naval architect would say.
I concur about the dangers of a Leaf Li-Ion battery in a marine environment. Sheer folly.
Those batteries are air cooled, and tend to overheat and degrade. Placing one inside the hull of the Theros strikes me as a significant safety hazard. If the battery caught fire,
there is no way they could have extinguished it. Even a fully equipped municipal fire service
has a hard time putting out those Li-Ion battery fires.
It is also possible that the Theros struck a shipping container, fatally damaging her hull.
And, the modifications this couple made to the vessel, as you point out, may have made the Theros unstable. I hope that more answers are forthcoming, as authorities investigate.
Maybe pieces of the vessel will turn up, offering clues.
We have the bodies. A medical examiner will be able to tell if they had been exposed to a fire or not.
Modifications are for engineers!
@@corals4508 Totally agree! Nobody did a lick of math for their design. How long would it take to charge a 40kwh battery with those tiny little cells? How much energy is there in a 40kwh battery compared to a 100 gallon tank of diesel (even with engine thermal losses)? Did they meet/comply with the ABYC standards of E-13? Horrible, horrible decisions - but that might not be the actual cause death.
I read a short news article about this this morning. Thanks for answering so many of my questions.
I agree batteries probably caused a fire which sank the boat
What evidence leads you to make such a definitive and decisive statement when there are a multitude of other possibilities?
My condolence to the family. Thank you for this update I know of others which will be at rest to know of this finding. We take things for granted that nothing will happen until it does. Back in June Luciano Mercenari went out on a paddleboard from Key Biscayne Bay in Miami he's still missing and it's July 25th, the paddleboard was recovered 2 weeks ago 39 miles from Keybiscayne. I live on the ICW and see people on jet skis and paddleboards without life vests or belts all the time they're just taking a big chance at what can happen.
I think the fire theory is probably the most likely one, considering there are only a handful of circumstances that would have allowed the couple to escape with a life raft but not without adequate food.
A fire rapidly spreading through the main cabin, with large amounts of heat and toxic fumes, would have prevented the couple from accessing any food stores they might have had.
This is an absolute tragedy and I am sure everyone seeing this in the news and on this video feels for the lost soles and their families. As a sailor myself the tought of being in an "abandon ship" situation at sea fills me with dread. An example of how to prepare and survive such a situation can be found on sailing Jambo youtube channel. This single handed German sailor survived the sinking of his boat mid south atlantic purley down to his preparedness, quick thinking and cool decsion making in a bad situation. Its worth a watch. We do not know what went wrong in this case. As a sailing community we should use this tragic loss to learn from. My deepest condolences to the families.
I wish they'd have put some supplies in their dinghy/raft. Even some fishing gear and a small propane stove with a cannister of propane. If they could have fished they even could have eaten the fish raw.
Looks like they had not posted since leaving the harbor? This post has a snippet of a post several miles into the trip. Where was that posted? I wonder what the weather was like out there as it appears they didn't get far? They were reported missing 7 days after they left the harbor and last communication was 2 days into the trip. They look so happy and adventuresome. How sad this happened with the only comfort knowing they looked very happy and loved their adventuring.
Got rid of the engine? Good plan. No EPIRB? Wow! Should have known better on both counts. At least they had a full life but these were catastrophic mistakes.
Got rid of a PERFECTLY good, economical and safe diesel engine ? - BAD PLAN !. No Epirb, total amateurs, whatever they play to on their yoo toob channel. Massive fire risk of a battery pack never designed to be anywhere near salt water ? - utter stupidity. Darwin in action
Too soon for that speculation. Replay 4:50 as the EPIRB may have gone down along with the life raft if they were run down. The tender may be the only thing that floated free. A collision leave no time other than get out to the surface if you are still alive.
Here's what we do know:
Attempting a trans-Atlantic voyage in an aging, heavily "DIY-modified", 42-ft. pleasure craft was a regrettable decision. Unfortunately, the crew of Theros fell into a trap that a lot of adventure lovers often do: They over-estimated their capabilities and under-estimated the risks.
Whatever was the on-board emergency, it was both immediate and catastrophic. We know this because they failed to make any radio distress calls and no emergency locator beacon was activated. They abandoned ship in extreme haste.
The question is, Why?
Some speculate Theros was accidentally struck by a large freighter. In my estimation, that idea is not plausible. Larger ships almost universally use radar systems that include both S-band and X-band. The X-band is capable of detecting something as small as a weather buoy. Working together, the S-band and X-band is more than capable of identifying from several miles away a 42-ft. boat with a 30-ft. mast and rigging, and solar panels, sticking out the top of it. This would have given the freighter ample time to take evasive maneuvers, make radio contact with the crew of Theros, and warn them to change course. This makes the "collision theory" unlikely.
There are two, more plausible and logical explanations to explore:
1. There was a fast-moving electrical/battery fire aboard Theros that caused them to quickly abandon ship.
2. In moderate to heavy seas, Theros floundered and capsized due to improper balance caused by the numerous modifications (including the removal of one of the masts, the removal of the diesel engine and fuel tanks, the addition of the solar panels and fiberglass superstructure above deck, the addition of the lithium-ion battery packs, electrical inverters, electric motor, etc. )
What do I believe is the likeliest explanation?
Every sailor knows the biggest risk to a ship is fire, and that should be the first place we look for potential problems and clues. Unfortunately, Theros has plenty of both. The battery system on board Theros was hocked from a Nissan "Leaf" electric automobile. This is a huge "red flag". The Nissan Leaf's battery system was designed for use in a small, compact automobile, operating on dry land, and was never designed, or intended, to be used in a salt-water marine environment as part of a propulsion system for a vessel weighing several tons. Compounding the problem, the Nissan Leaf battery system was paired with an electric motor, also not designed or intended to be used in a marine environment. Then all of this was Jerry-rigged together with electrical wires, inverters, switches, etc. We don't have to be marine engineers to see how the homebrew, DIY-electrical system aboard Theros was a potential disaster waiting to happen. My best guess is, under load, the electrical system overheated, or shorted out, and caught fire (probably the lithium-ion batteries, which are known to be extremely flammable) and in a matter of moments, not minutes, the boat was engulfed in flames and thick, acrid smoke. The terrified crew hastily abandoned ship, not even having time to issue a distress radio call or grab their "ditch" bags. If this happened at night, the crisis would be even more terrifying in the dark.
Why didn't they activate an EPIRB?
Some people speculate they did not have an EPIRB (Emergency Position Indicator Radio Beacon) on board Theros. I find that very unlikely. They were fairly experienced sailors and understood the importance of having an EPIRB or similar location beacon in the event of an emergency, especially when embarking on such a long journey to another continent. And EPIRBs are relatively inexpensive, so cost was not prohibitive.
The more logical reason they didn't activate their EPIRB is because they were separated from it by the fire. Many sailors keep their EPIRB in their "ditch" bag. I believe the fire and smoke (and potential darkness) prevented them from gaining access to their ditch bags, and they had to abandon ship without them.
Why didn't the EPIRB activate automatically?
There are two possible logical explanations for this.
1. There are two categories of EPIRBs, I and II. Category I EPIRBs are activated automatically when submerged. However, Category II EPIRBs must be activated manually. If they had a Category II EPIRB, and they were separated from it, they couldn't active it. And it wouldn't activate automatically, even if submerged.
2. The EPIRB, regardless of Category, was destroyed by the fire (along with everything else on board.)
One additional fact that points to fire: No flotsam or jetsam from the wreckage of Theros was reported to have been discovered. If Theros capsized, or was struck by a freighter and broke apart, logically we would expect at least some of the flotsam to have followed the same path as the life raft and eventually find its way to Sable Island, too. That has not happened. The fact that no flotsam has been discovered points to the boat being consumed by fire and then disappearing under the water.
We will have the results of the autopsies soon enough. If there was a fire on board, there will be ample evidence collected by the medical examiner. If no evidence of fire is found on or in the bodies, the logical explanation moves back towards the boat floundering and capsizing.
Unless criminality is present the Royal Canadian Mounted Police will only release investigation findings including autopsy results to next of kin. So we may never know even though there would learning from this tragedy.
Thanks for your thorough analysis.
It is so sad this happened 2 days into their voyage and no one knew anything about it for about 3 weeks, wouldn’t they have suffered? Perhaps hypothermia took them quickly. To the family, I am so sorry.
To be clear: Theros DID have an AIS and SART on board. However, it DID NOT have a Category I EPIRB on board. We know this because Category I EPIRBs are required to be registered and there is no record of any such registration associated with Theros. However, it is still possible Theros had a Category II EPIRB on board. These are not required to be registered, and, unlike Category I EPIRBs, Category II EPIRBs require MANUAL activation. If the crew was separated from their EPIRB, which I think is the most likely scenario, they would not have been able to activate it.
@@hazelmatt Thanks. My understanding this is a multi-agency investigation, not just one being conducted by the RCMP. I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that the release of the findings would be a matter of public record due to the nature of the incident.
July 22, 2024
Sable Island National Park Reserve, Nova Scotia
News release
The remains of a man have been identified after a boat containing two deceased sailors was discovered on the shores of Sable Island National Park Reserve on July 10.
The Nova Scotia Medical Examiner Service, with the assistance of RCMP Forensic Identification Services, has determined the remains are those of a 70-year-old British Columbia sailor, who set sail from Halifax Harbour on June 11 aboard the Theros.
Work continues to identify the woman's remains. Investigators are confident they are those of the second sailor aboard the Theros, a 54-year-old, from British Columbia; her age was originally reported as 60.
Out of respect for the families of the victims and in accordance with the Canadian Privacy Act, the names of the sailors are not being released.
At this time, the deaths are not believed to be suspicious in nature. Investigators from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police/Halifax Regional Police Integrated Criminal Investigation Division continue to gather information and analyze evidence in an effort to determine what may have occurred at sea. An update will be issued should the investigation uncover any criminality.
Our thoughts are with the victims' loved ones at this difficult time.
File #: 24-92827
@@AndrewA-s1m Also note that they had a Garmin inReach aboard, and I would argue they were not using it properly.
By that I mean it should have been tracking their progress, sending it to several reliable contacts and with available text messages.
If they had done that they would have been reported missing much earlier with an up to date last known position.
Not to mention having it close at hand for quick evacuation and hitting the SOS button.
They owned a Leaf…wonder if they cannabilized it? From the limited info I could see, it doesn’t sound like they had extensive offshore experience…the additional DIY mentality didn’t help either. The sea is a cruel mistress if you don’t respect her.
These people were absolutely amazing people, be kind in your comments.
Hubris
@@redwingblackbirdnellgo troll somewhere else.
Eco lunatics
How can you say that, they were utterly clueless and pretty stupid for fitting an ev battery to a sailboat ! - not carrying an eprib ? - unforgivable. Most youtube channels are created by pretty clueless people - especially the 'sailing' ones.
@@MevRB19 because they were friends. There’s a lot unknown in this
I just stumbled across this sad news. The couple looked like they enjoyed life. And they stayed together til the end, Bless their soul
I do not understand why so many uninformed people (including the video maker) are assuming these poor people were unprepared, inexperienced, and foolish people. This is cruel speculation.
Tragic accidents happen to to best of well prepared, well equipped experienced sailors more frequently than we realise.
The very real possibility of collision was not even mentioned, they were in a shipping lane at their last recorded position and could have encountered a partially submerged container at night, or even been run down by a container ship, or they could have been holed by a whale or iceberg - all are more realistic possibilities than those speculated on here.
These people and their families do not deserve this wild speculation by people most of whom have never been to sea on offshore passages, or even sailed at all ...
But then, what do I know? I wasn't there, and have only sailed a ross the Atlantic and back twice... I would never presume to speculate on the cause of this tragic accident, especially to garner RUclips clicks!
one of the ways to prevent accidents is to have an awareness of previous incidents, and to learn from them. I never said that these people were unprepared, inexperienced or foolish, but you also don't know what you don't know.
Numerous vessels have sunk due to modifications that affected vessel performance. That is a risk.
There is a known risk of fire when EV Batteries are exposed to salt water.
An inreach is not a substitute for an EPIRB or PLB.
Theros was equipped with AIS and Radar. They should have been well visible to Commercial Vessels/been able to see Commercial vessels even in low visibility.
There is no reported Ice around Theros last reported position. it should have appeared on radar in any event.
I think a collision with a whale/container is possible, these have happened before, but are still very uncommon. Previous cases there was time for an orderly abandon ship.
@@hfxshippingnews The most recent I'm aware of was Alliance in the Newport-Bermuda race. The skippers believe they struck a submerged container which ripped the rudder off the boat.
Even with a crew of 8 highly trained people who were experienced, trained for these types of emergencies, and had 2 separate pumps running that were capable of pumping ~7,000 GPH out of the boat, they were forced to evacuate within 40 minutes. The only reason they had so much time was because of how quickly they got their pumps setup and, even then, they were taking on more water than they could get off the boat.
A less experienced (and, transparently, less abled) crew of 2 might only have a fraction of that amount of time.
Again, not saying they struck a container or that a container strike is more likely than other explanations, but it seems equally as plausible as both the onboard fire theory and the windage / weight change theory.
I think we can all agree that these were experienced sailors and whatever happened, happened fast. No ditchbag, extra water communication devices. There's no way experienced sailors would not have grabbed these prepared supplies if able. I looked at the weather on the dates and it wasn't that bad over their assumed position. I feel for them, their friends, family and fans.
I'm sure the couple would be willing to share their mistakes in order to save someone else.
Thank you, I agree with your post. It could be anything really. Thoughts to the families😢
So sad to learn this news. I'm just comforted knowing they pursued their dreams and enjoyed life. So many people come to the end of their life full of regrets and I should haves.
...a few other factors: the last known position (USCG) noted in the video plots Theros directly on a shipping lane; and, the lat & long is also just inside the June maximum iceberg limit (ref: Atlantic Pilot Atlas, 4th edition). Whatever happened, a very tragic and sad incident to say the least.
I think its unlikely they titanic'd. They also had AIS and should have been well visible to commercial shipping, so getting run down is also not likely.
AIS is useful but should never be overly relied upon, in my opinion. Vessels with AIS, radar, professional crew, etc. still manage to collide at times. The assumption that vessels equipped with an AIS are keeping an ongoing vigilant watch and monitoring their radar, AIS and ARPA if fitted, should be a cautious one. An article re Theros this morning in Saltwire, stated there's evidence to suggest their AIS was not in operation after the 11th. Who knows at this point. There could have been a number of contributing factors (e.g., collision with something; fire; combination of same). Seems premature to rule out anything at this point.
They were in the iceberg limit. This is just bad sailing and planning
The changes to the vessel in terms of weight are pretty insignificant to the stability of a 42' boat. The 'sail area" of the panels would have a greater impact but only in pretty extreme conditions.
From my experience at sea AIS is far from fallible in terms of both the equipment and watch keeping on both vessels and to me the most likely scenario is that they were run down by a larger vessel but managed to a abandon ship to the dinghy or liferaft.
Given their approach to battery charging (solar, with maybe some diesel back-up?) a battery fire seems a remote possibility.
In a really big storm, the panels would rip off. Not an issue.
Modifications to any vehicle always looks good on paper.
Let me save you 10 minutes. Nobody knows. Going on a trans Atlantic across major shipping lanes without an EPIRB, SART or PLBs is insane.
Apparently, they had a SART. And we do not know if they had an EPIRB or not. It is possible all of these devices were destroyed by a fast moving electrical fire. Or, in the case of the EPIRB, they may have not been able to reach it to activate it. Not all EPIRBs are self-activating. Only Category I devices self-activate.
@@AndrewA-s1m I heard that they did not have an EPIRB and I have not seen anything to say they had a SART either. They are not common in small yachts (but I'd have one). If you buy an EPIRB you get a Class 1 and register it, to do anything else is foolish especially if you are sailing and might have periods with nobody on watch. If there was a fast moving fire, how did they launch and inflate a liferaft? Were the bodies found covered in smoke or evidence of burns. Be careful making up scenarios.
@@csjrogerson2377 If you listen to the video above, it confirms the ship had both an AIS and SART, yet here was no registration of a Category I EPIRB. However, Category II EPIRBs are not required to be registered, so it is possible, and in my estimation likely, they had a Category II EPIRB on board. I speculate that, due to the nature of the emergency, they were separated from it and were unable to activate it manually, as is required with Category II EPIRBs. They do not activate automatically they way Category I EPIRBs do.
@@AndrewA-s1m Yes I know, but the reports I had did not say that. I know that Cat II EPIRBS are not registered. My point is, and I had been at sea for 37 yrs, is that you'd have to be an idiot to do trans-atlantics with a non-automatically operated, non-registered EPIRB Cat II. Get a CAT 1 it could save your life. Understand now?
@@csjrogerson2377 Regarding the Cat I EPIRB, I could not agree more. However, being frank, that was only one of many decisions that were... questionable. They seemed like very nice people, with good intentions, who just over-estimated their capabilities and under-estimated the risks. Murphy's Law is alive and well, unfortunately.
The presenter information about the Nissan Leaf battery package is very interesting explanation for a fire on board.
The crew not having personal locating beacon strapped to their life jackets is just plain foolish for a crossing ..JMO.
I hear a lot of speculation here. There seems to be a shortage of basic facts, like was the inflatable the life raft or the dink? If it was the dink, did the motor still work? What supplies & equipment were with them? Was there an apparent cause of death? I'm not going to speculate. I would be interested in hearing more information.
Actually, there are quite a few facts that have been established: We know, for instance, the kinds of heavy modifications they made to vessel, including the removal of one of the masts, the addition of solar panels and a fiberglass superstructure above deck, the removal of the diesel engine and fuel tanks, the installation of lithium-ion batteries and other electrical components, etc. We know they used batteries and other components not designed for marine applications (and the inherent dangers associated with this decision.) We know they did not have marine engineering backgrounds, nor did they consult a professional marine engineer on the use of these non-marine components (because no marine engineer would recommend using electric car batteries in a marine application.) We know they had a great deal of experience sailing under diesel power, but had comparatively little experience sailing under electric propulsion. We know they did not have a Category I EPIRB on board because there is no record of one being registered to the vessel. None of this is speculation, I am sorry to say.
You had me at dink. ...
Yes, my thoughts are also a catastrophic fire led to a scrambled disembarkment of the mother ship into the most available dingy. A battery out of a Nissan Leaf car, which I believe is Lithium Ion based, could be the likely suspect. A LiFePo battery bank would be a much safer option on a boat. Will be interesting to find out the real cause of this sad story.
I wouldn't touch Li-On batteries for such an installation with a barge pole, I have Life-Po4 batteries
The fact that they had that battery pack on board 😬 if there’s a fire… it’s really more like jet exhaust than flame, you’re lucky to make it out, let alone grab anything to take with you
The battery fire theory makes sense. In an abandon-ship situation these experienced sailors would have been in their life raft, unless something prevented them reaching it, like the boat was on fire. They took to the dinghy because it was being towed and was not ablaze. Lack of an EPIRB activation is puzzling but also explainable. In any case RIP and hopefully in their deaths the couple taught us all something
They were crossing the Atlantic. No sailors in their right mind would tow the dingy for a journey like that.
@@kingsolaa I agree. But in their videos I don't see the dinghy transported any other way but towed with a motor on it. If the battery fire theory is true, doing so may have saved their lives, if only for a short time
@@jamesstuart3346The zodiac was on the rear swim platform.
As someone who did an electric conversion on a 40 foot bluewater sailboat. Not that it is the cause but they absolutely chose the wrong battery. You never chose a Lithium ion battery..you chose LiFePo4 batteries or if you can afford them..lithium titanate. Too many people chose the wrong battery and it gives all lithium batteries a bad name.
Assuming what the video proposes as true, did their new powerplant installation meet ABYC E-13? Did they use a certified ABYC technician for advice, inspection, or to perform the work? Was the equipment installed Marine UL / ABYC approved and or certified? Did their insurance company approve such modifications? Too many red flags.
Hence required regulation, inspection, certification on all systems of vessel. Marine navigation licence to operate. Preserve SAR/Coast Guard and civilian volunteers. Charge/ fine negligent ' sailors '.
the weight of the solar panels and hard Bimini could have sunk the boat? (presumably by creating too much weight too high up) I find that hard to buy. it's a 42' sailboat, the keel must have weighed many tons.
More questions than answers. Good questions though.
condolences to their family ,the went out doing what they loved sailing the sky now .. rip sailors
For the love of god people. Please stop retrofitting old lithium vehicle batteries into boats and houses. It is beyond stupid. For one thing, these are pulled most of the time from wrecked vehicles and are therefore already at very high risk of failure. But also by the very nature of ev lithium it is designed to be highly unstable compared to solar storage lithium like lifepo4 simply because of the need to deliver very high currents to the drive motors and to charge extremely quickly.
You are literally installing time bombs in your houses. Im an electrical engineer who specializes in renewable off grid and microgrid solutions, and every time i see it makes my skin crawl. The failure rate on these systems is horrifically high and let me tell you when it goes it is not something that you can even hope to slow down or stop. Youll be damned lucky to escape with your and your loved ones lives.
Stop installing chemical bombs in your f**king houses/boats!!!
If your going to go lithium at least ensure you have sealed 12v lithium units with a good bms from a reliable manufacturer. Also if you do it still know even with lifepo they can still fail and light off, and if they do, DO NOT attempt to fight the fire. Evacuate NOW.
You will not be able to extinguish that fire no matter what. Your boat/home is a write off. No extinguishers, suffocation, or water has a hope in hell of putting lithium out and if the fire doesnt get you, the immediate and lethal smoke/fumes will.
Words of wisdom.
It would seem they "cheaped" out on their DIY solar project to the point I highly doubt he was an engineer.
The EPIRB situation also indicates that safety was not high on their list.
Very good theory. Sailboats like that don’t just sink that fast very often. Sailboats are often found abandoned floating for years sometimes. Top heavy and lithium car batteries have nothing to do with level of experience sailing. This is the most plausible thing I’ve heard Thanks for the video
Leaf battery is absolutely the wrong type of battery for a boat. I've worked with them in non-marine applications. LFP batteries are much safer.
Rest In Peace friends. Blessings to the family and friends. God Bless
They ended up in the inflatable, not the life raft. Either the life raft failed or the liferaft was 'inaccessible ' when it was time to bail out. To me that may imply that it was a rapid bailout from the vessel, and if the inflatable was towed , and therefore not permanently affixed to the vessel itself, then the inflatable may have escaped whatever calamity occurred to the Theros itself, maybe from the parting of the bow painter. I would say battery fire , catastrophic knockdown, or ship collision. Also, if there is no evidence of a bailout bag or salvaged provisions from the inflatable then that might indicate a rapid sinking.
Whatever the reason two lovely people are gone I hope they did not suffer and are sailing up on high looking down on us all condolences to family and friends............
Do you work for the government ? - they were acting stupidly.. it is THEIR fault.
Pretty awful outcome and pause for thought for any of us who venture offshore. I haven't seen any reports on what the weather conditions were at the time of their disappearance. Curious about the epirb ... you'd think they'd carry one and you'd think it would more likely than not to have saved them. If they did have a battery fire on board that would indeed be catastrophic. When those things go they really go, with huge amount of heat and as you say pretty much impossible to deal. Not sure about your conclusion on the hard top. This would be a boat with displacement in excess of 20,000 lbs. The hard dodger would be say something like 200 to 400 lbs, so I can't see it having anything other than a very minor effect on stability. Also, removing engine is unlikely to cause a catastrophic effect on stability IMO. The keel ballast on this type of boat would be somewhere in the region of 5,000-7000 lbs. If the engine is roughly 500 lbs its removal should not be a show stopper. Also, likely he put the battery where the engine was or at least low down, and reasonable to assume roughly similar weight if not heavier than the removed engine. Apart from a battery fire, another other cause could be a skin fitting failure but you'd think he'd have systems in place to mitigate for this. A collision of some sort?
In one of their videos, he said that he removed the engine and gas tanks, which he estimated at several thousand pounds. He said the bow of the boat tipped down, and he was thinking of ways to address. Additionally, he removed a sailing mast, to make room to install solar panels. The boat also had a shallow keel on it.
@@michaelsnively3621 where did he put the battery? You'd think it would be heavy enough to counter the weight effects of removing a heavy diesel engine. Also, being an engineer and experienced sailor I think it unlikely he would accept a drastic change in fore/aft waterline without correcting
Thanks for the information. I read the notifications on Boat Watch, you filled in a few of the blanks, looking forward to your follow up
Lack of information. A liferaft would have had minimal water onboard. If they were in an open dinghy, with no grab bag, that suggests they may have abandoned ship in a hurry, either through a failed shaft seal or fire. Must have been something odd with the winds, as they are usually predominately Westerlies and they seem to have drifted East. Not a good way to go.
I think we can assume it happened very quickly. They did not launch the life raft. They got in the inflatable, I'm assuming this was on tow, but did not have time to fits the outboard (am I correct it had no motor on when found?) not that the range would be much. They also had no time to pack water and food or the hand held radio. To me this suggests they had minutes at best and if it was a fire then perhaps the life raft and radio were early losses to the fire. Modifications before a major incident always make me uneasy if they have not been independently assessed and tested and some shakedown trips done. Do we know the time line? I take it that the life-raft did not have self release gear but was hard strapped to the deck?
Maybe one of them fell overboard and the one onboard deployed the emergency dinghy because they didn't have the knowledge/confidence/ability to adjust the sails in time as the distance was increasing. They reached the person in the water but were unable to catch up with the boat. You can easily live without food for two weeks but not water. Especially if you lose your mind from thirst and start drinking salt water.
That all makes sense..Sorry to hear of the loss.
There should have been an electrical engineer and professional electrician involved in this recent install.
Condolences to the friends and family. When I heard Sable Island, my first thought was "The Perfect Storm".
All that money into alternative energies but nothing spent on a commonsense rescue device. I'm sure they had some agonizing days and nights floating out there lementing all of this. Then to endure watching their spouse succumb.
😢 It's terribly sad, but they were positive, spiritual people. I'm sure they were a comfort to each other in their last days.
That's a tragic story. In a raft with no water they probably wouldn't survive for more than a week. We may never know what happened to them which caused them to evacuate the vessel in such a hurry, probably with no supplies.
Reminds me of a book I read years ago, forget the name, but it was about an Aussie yacht that went missing but reports of it popping up around the coast of the Golden Triangle persisted for years. Drug runners and missing boats are a thing.
Extremely implausible. There aren't many pirates or drug runners plying the Atlantic Ocean in that part of the world.
@@AndrewA-s1m The Golden Triangle is in Asia mate. The yacht was called "Patanela" and there were credible reports for a decade plus of it showing up in Thailand and remote parts of Australia.
Plenty of drug busts happen in the Atlantic, how do you think snow gets from the Americas and west Africa to Europe?
In my humble opinion, sailing from Halifax to the Azores requires the sailor to be very very experienced. I wonder how much experience these folks had sailing out in the open ocean over a long distance?? RIP to both of them and condolences to the family.
" I wonder how much experience these folks had sailing out in the open ocean over a long distance??"
They "sailed" from Vancouver island down to the Panama canal and then up the coast to Nova Scotia.
Mostly coastal, with a lot of motoring.
No sign of them ever doing a longer passage, it looks like this was their first.
Countless sailors have died at sea since the first ones went to sea, no mystery there. The sea is an unpredictable foe or friend, depending on its mood.
I did not read all the postings, but it is clear to me that this couple either died from hypothermia or lack of water or food or both. In those waters even a GUMBY suit will not keep you warm enough to survive more than a couple of hours is you are setting in water and waves coming aboard the raft or dink.
The other thing that I don’t remembering seeing is if the EPIRB was actually registered or registered to this couple. It is the responsibility of the owner operator to every five years now. In the beginning and until recently it was an annual registration.
After spending twenty-five years of delivering sailing vessels, I personally insure that all of my personal safety beacons are operational (complete safety test on units). I also, make sure that all beacons that are already onboard are currently registered by the owner.
I’m sold water deliveries it is imperative that cold water survival equipment is on board and all crew can put them on quickly and efficiently.
Most vessels, when sinking, take less than ten (10) minutes. So, an emergency “Go-Bag) is kept near the companionway, and all the crew should know what their assignment is when it is know the vessel is going down.
Horrible incident and I am very sorry for those loves ones they have left behind…
CJohn
Tragic. I think it’s a good idea to have suits, water, emergency equipment and food ready. Time permitting take the life raft (cover) first and if you can throw your dinghy with whatever you manage to throw in. I have experienced a loss of my home caused by a fire it may for sure startle you depending on how things go. I am a former air line captain and I will train some kind of emergency evacuation once I got my boat. This will not help these poor people. Wrong or right discussion won’t help either when the outcome is fatal but we all can learn from it and make up our minds what to do if this ever happens. My condolence to the family and friends
I think that that is a real shame. Very unfortunate loss of two people who seem very compatible and adventurous I have to say though that they had the financial resources to equip themselves with an epirb and Halon fire suppression systems I have a 28 ft sportfish boat with twin inboards and each has its own halo on can it seems to me that would be a fairly straightforward and affordable way to reduce the risk of a fire taking their boat out
cape sable sea monster
Regarding the comments about weight distribution, following removal of a diesel engine and replacement with a Leaf battery pack: A typical Yanmar is 200kg; the Leaf battery pack alone is 300KG. If anything replacement would have increased gross weight, not reduced OR redistributed it.
I don't know why the author of this vid used the weight distribution due to the mods as a potential reason the boat was lost. it borders on absurd and detracts from an otherwise knowledgeable discussion
Respectfully, your analysis is quite flawed. They removed the diesel engine AND the diesel fuel tanks. The total weight loss from both would amount to around 2,400 lbs. (about 600 lbs. for the engine, and 1,800 pounds for 250 gallons of diesel fuel.) Also, they removed one of the sailing masts and rigging, resulting in even more weight loss and alteration to the boat's balance/center of gravity as it was originally designed. The battery pack from a Nissan Leaf only weighs about 600 lbs. Clearly, these changes would result in a significant net loss in ballast. Additionally, the placement of the solar panels and the fiberglass superstructure ABOVE deck, would negatively effect the balance of the Theros, especially in high winds and rough seas. These folks were not marine engineers or naval architects. Making modifications of this magnitude without consulting the services of professional engineers and/or architects was, at a minimum, questionable decision making. We don't yet know if these changes directly, or indirectly, lead to the emergency that caused them to abandon ship. But, that doesn't make these changes any less questionable.
@@flyinacircle6398 See my reply. You couldn't be more mistaken.
As an airline pilot and a skipper,I hold lithium batteries dangerous as they come.There is no way you can douse a lithium battery with a small fire extinguisher.Fiberglass will catch fire in no time with that kind of batteries.May God have mercy on them.My condolences.An Epirb on board could have saved their lives.PS:I love my old diesel engine tucked down below with 400kg weight.
Quantity Vs quality. I have an air cooled Sichuan Sifa 3 HP air cooled diesel with a 7 inch pulley and 1 inch shaft adapter. This is an easy, light, and reliable way to supply wattage in quantity. Don't look for trouble on the sea.
Interesting. There are many dozens (100's?) of sailing channels on YT. Sailing the Med, Caribbean, around the world. Check them out. ALL of them have solar to charge their house batteries of which MOST are LiFePo... or they plan on going to that. Some have a separate gas or diesel genset others have a high output alternator on their diesel engine or engines! Many are also getting rid of propane for cooking and are using induction instead. More battery storage needed for that plus more solar. From the dozens if very capable world sailors that I watch, you are an outlier.
Delos, Nahoa, One Life, Atticus, Calico Skies, Breaking Waves, Sweet Ruca, WE Sail.... so many more.
@@rickkwitkoski1976 Hold on. Sailboats should have solar panels but they never have enough. My diesel is friendly. 44 LBS out of the crate. Perfect for cloudy weeks when you get almost no charge. I don't like Nissan Leaf batteries in cars, so why would I put one in a boat? Sailboats have the nicest propane stoves around. Try soldering pipes on your electric range.
I'm in agreement with the suspicion of fire from Li-ion repurposed Leaf battery pack. These IIRC are pouch cells ( not the best design of battery IMO) in a can and if the BMS was not installed and/or configured correctly could lead to overcharging causing the pouches to swell then burst into flames. If they fail to an internal short, they're going to do that anyway. Li-ion IMO has absolutely no place on a boat period. LiFePo4, OTO, are a MUCH safer choice, but with any used vehicle battery comes potential failure issues. I've read of many Leaf and similar pouch module fires and failures from those using them in their homes as solar storage. The 18650 type LiFePo4 cell, as used in an EV pack is much safer.
As I am also a sailor as well as a retired ATT power guy, a sudden fire in a Leaf pack would leave no choice but to use the dink as they may have had no time or access to the ditch bag or life raft mounted forward of the mast due to the fire if it was in the salon and that means no food, fresh water, flares, or comms. These types of fires are extremely hot and fast and once the 'glass catches, it's over. Depending on design of the boat, the batteries would in a compartment somewhere near amidships to balance weight (no list) and I suspect poss divide into 2 segments, port and starboard for balance (An upgrade video to see how configured was not found on their channel). I've done a lot of research over the last 10 years on re-use EV packs as house batteries for a Bristol 32 and a Morgan 41 (current boat) and anything like the Li-ion Leaf would NEVER be a choice due to their (and all other Li-ions) tendency to burn during failure. As a final opinion, never reuse an EV pack on a boat....ever. Cheaper options for purpose built LiFePo4 batteries are every where (NOT Battleborn...overpriced). Especially those using CALB cells.
Rest In Peace, Sailors. "May Legions of Angels Sing Ye To Rest" 🙏
I think sailors consider the Atlantic Ocean as a dangerous passage due to wind and storms that pass thru that region. I think they had a battery fire or got hit by a shipping container perhaps. RIP
They had a Leaf, and I vaguely recall something about them getting a new car, so maybe they took the battery out of their old car. Tragic loss. I hope the authorities do find out what happened so it never happens again.
What was the weather like in the area at that time, if a storm caused water to get into the boat and start a fire then the weather would help with a timeline and currants would help to give a drift rate and possable location. Given where the boat they were found in was the currand and wind traced back to their intended track might help with a location as would and aiis track hisory. its also posable a collision or Orca encounter might have started the chain reaction.
Not only Orcas, but sperm whales and hump backs attack boats.
it is very odd there is no discussion re weather conditions.
Almost all Epirbs I've seen on boats are fixed and would not release automatically. Personally i have a plb a d AIS in my life jacket but seldom have it on. It hangs in the cockpit.
Suggesting they might have capsized because of the solar panels is completely absurd.
The car battery / fire makes a lot of sense
i agree its unlikely, but it was suggested as a possibility by a professional mariner. I included it more to make a point about the impact changes can have on vessel stability.
@@hfxshippingnews Do journalists know the difference between an inflatable and a RIB? She had no davids ( 2:38 ) So if she had a RIB it would have been stowed inverted on the foredeck. An inflatable would be deflated into a cockpit locker. No way would you tow a dinghy across the Atlantic! The Leaf battery would have been installed under the cockpit to maintain trim ( 800 lb battery verses 800 lb diesel engine ) . Fibreglass burns very fiercely so a battery fire would quickly make the cockpit and companionway inaccessible. Also this would stop access to an inflatable, let alone the time it takes to inflate it. Maybe the fire stopped access to a grab bag?
I agree with @SailorJames and sadly your 'expert' is not, in this instance. I also discount orcas as explained in comments above. So being run down or hitting a container are two possibilities. If so, why wasn't the life raft used and a grab bag found? Very sad and very strange.
Sometimes people get a little too sure they can handle anything and stop practicing their safety drills. Now with the focus of the voyage being to film it adds another complication to push safety and preparedness to the back burner. Remember safety drills prepare you for the urgency of an emergency and not to panic and run off without taking any of your safety supplies.
I would never replace the engine with battery powered propulsion! It's a sailboat and most of the time you're sailing anyway. They could have something in the water too. It's happened numerous times. I'd have at least 2 or 3 epirbs aboard. Anyway it's tragic.
Thanks for the sincere analysis and not fingerpointing. Very very respectful and we all can learn a lor from this unfortunate event.
Coast guard, do and fire departments showed up the day they rolled the boat over, off of Halifax , but when the hailed their S.O.S. they hailed it off for my harbour instead of Halifax harbor
2:41 this is eirey
I was watching them work on their boat this spring, as I was helping someone get the Peggy's cove boat tour boat ready
cape sable sea monster- robby ross
Really Sad news to see Sailors pass away like this, but it does beg the question as to why they didn't have an EPIRB , yes it's a fair cost but is an absolute MUST for offshore passage making on any vessel.
Sadly they may have gone too green for their own good.
Agreed.
The hydrostatic release function releases the EPIRB from its float-free bracket. Once the EPIRB is released and exposed to the water, it automatically activates via the water activated switch. The EPIRB floats to the surface of the water with the aerial pointing vertically and the distress signal is transmitted.
There is NO indication they had an EPIRB on board.
There was no bracket for it to be seen for it.
Sucks.. But just another reason to keep that diesel...
Why? No evidence that swapping an engine for an electric motor caused this loss. These conversions are increasingly popular among global cruisers.
@@antc5010
I call BS, and I’m not a sailor but, “just because you can, doesn’t mean you should” there are SO many reasons for going with, “time tested”. Reliability matters in situations where “it has to get done” or you lose you life. The whole electric thing may be “green” and “innovative” and even trendy, but simply a bad choice when the crap hits the fan! Should we innovate? Absolutely YES! But not when the risk is too high and not where reliability is a must.
@antc5010 Diesels are tried and true..
Been around for over 100 years..
I can rebuild my diesel.
Also my fuel isn't explosive like batteries are..
Imagine, putting something that reacts violent to water, in something that goes on the water and has water inside and all around..
Keep your electric motors, ill take my Perkins.
@@Studio51media You can call whatever you like. If we had your attitude all the time people would never have taken to flight because we "could". There are many ocean global cruising yachts on the water powered by electric propulsion. I would never make a DIY system with EV batteries. I have no idea what motor was used. Oceanvolt are well reknown for their marine electric propulsion systems. No everyone's choice, but that's the point. It's a free world and just because people think differently does not make it BS.
Do people realize how much fuel was burned searching for this "green" boat? Incredibly irresponsible project.
If the Nissan Leaf battery caught fire then it might explain why they were in the dinghy, if the life-raft was damaged or not accessible due to the flames.
The life raft seemed to have a hydrostatic release on it but they installed it under the boom to be fouled by the mainsheet.
A lot of speculation, people love jumping into conclusions, this video doesn't help the matter other than provide more fuel for speculations.
Making claims or speculations prior to autopsy results is not reaally helpful.
Many facts have been established that call into question certain decisions made by this couple prior to embarking on such a perilous journey. None of it is speculation. And I get no pleasure from saying it. However, I do believe that referencing these facts may help other sailors avoid making similar decisions and perhaps avoid tragedy.
The SART is great if you sail locally (such as Raritan Bay / NY Harbor) though.
Yes, a sart is good to have. But it has limited range, and requires someone to be near by to pick up the signal.
That's a whole lot of speculating you're doing here. 'There were clearly a number of failures"? No, the only thing clear is that something bad happened and they died. It's possible it was a single event beyond their control. It's possible it was a cascade of failures due to errors modifying the boat. It's possible it was any of a million other things that can happen on the open ocean. Based on the available information, can we say that any one of those possibilities more likely than another? Nope. I get it, we're all prone to guess about what happened.when things like this occur, but making a video of those guesses for thousands to see is bad form.
totally agree
...not to mention really hard on their already suffering families and friends. I found this video to be rather thoughtless and cruel.
He speculated on what could have caused the accident and with that it gives other adventurer’s a bit to reflect on and learn so hopefully it could maybe prevent another accident. Accident review is a great tool for learning. OF COURSE IT IS TERRIBLE AND VERY SAD LIFE WAS LOSS,but with reflection on what may have happened maybe it might not agin. Kinda like when you mark donor on your drivers license🤷♂️
@@cnc75adventures49 I agree that accident review is a great tool for learning IF it is evidence based. But guessing about what happened without evidence is just entertainment. It has zero educational value, and can even be dangerous as it can prevent the real lesson from being learned.
Totally with you here.
Well done video. I saw the news clip on this and have wondered what happened. I see the small Honda generator and gas cans on the deck in that video. I hope they didn’t have a mishap trying to use that rest in peace sailors.
The battery a fire for sure
They’ve done a lot of sailing. Unless it’s confirmed otherwise, I’m going to believe that they did have an EPIRB and the rest of the safety gear they should have onboard and that something very unusual or fast and overwhelming happened on that boat. Likewise I do not believe the “one fell overboard and the other came out in the dinghy, then couldn’t get back to the boat” story - takes a special kind of stupid IMO to do that kind of mistake.
Massive battery fire? Seems like a probable cause- if it burns fast and hot enough that maybe the reason there was no EPIRB activation - the fire damaged or destroyed it before it could be used.
I've met many people while doing different sports who claimed to have years of experience and they were incompetent.