Hi I have a question. When you did the first test cuts and was measuring the dimensions A and B you said you could use a tape measure but would not be as accurate as the calipers. Which most people would agree. However, you measured the length of that piece with a tape measure and also the pivot length. Yes I know I am being pedantic, but how much would that affect the accuracy?
Honestly if I had a pair of calipers that large I would use them lol. But, to answer your question. Those two measurements can be done with a tape measure because you do not need the measurement down to the thousandth for those. As far as how much of a difference it would make is minute. My tape measure measures down to 16ths and I have had the cut fall between two marks so i counted that at 32nds. The most i could ever be off on those is 1/64th". 1/16th = 0.0625, a 32nd=.03125, 1/64th=0.015625. Therefore lets say my piece was actually 17 & 37/64" or 17.578125. That would put my final calculation at -0.007168 instead of -0.007174. As you can see that made a difference of about 100 thousandth of an inch so it doesn't really affect my end result. I hope that helps answer your question.
I would guess if the pivot to adjustment was out by a 1/16 - 1/32 with the equation and error ratio, and its wood its probably close enough. Don't get me wrong I spend way to much time trying to make my machines run to at least a thou. Thank you for the video, this combined with William Ng helped me drill down on accuracy.
Yo Michael me lad Many thanks for the formula for the five cut method and the calculations to determine such. Broken down very nicely and simple enough for this old boy. Keep up the good works and God bless Roberto
I agree with the others, this is the best explanation on this that I've seen. There is a tendency when explaining things that since the speaker knows what they are talking about, they assume that everything is clear. You did not assume, you elaborated. Very nice job!
This is the most complete and succinct explanation of William Ng's 5 cut method I have seen on RUclips. I really appreciate your demonstration by example and walking through the formula step-by-step. I noticed my miter saw was not cutting square while working on a furniture project I adapted the 5 cut technique for a miter saw. I used a smaller test piece about 6-1/2' square for safety. The test cuts and calculation work the same way. The only difference is adjusting the pivot. The pivot point on my saw is the intersection of the fence and the blade. I measured 13" from the pivot toward the front of the saw for the adjustment point. The saw was out -.00193876" per inch requiring a -.025 adjustment 13" from the pivot. I clamped a square to the table supporting the saw just touching the saw frame. Next, I adjusted the angle per the saw manual, using a feeler gauge as you described. The second test cuts were accurate to -00016901 per inch. BTW, positive error, move front of saw right, negative move left. Also, using a square to square up a miter saw might be ok for construction, but not for furniture. First, you need a real cut to account for any blade runout Second, it's too short of a distance to be able to visually see any error. Thank you for the great explanation.
This is the bomb! I don't know how many of these 5 cut method videos I've watched and this by far was the easiest to follow. Was able to square up my fence in a couple of tries.
I just saw this for the first time and I must say, this is the best explaination I've ever seen/heard. I will refer back to this if needed but I feel like this is 'known' information to me now. Thank you!
About to build a crosscut sled for my saw....read about the 5 cut method. You're explanation was fantastic, precise, easy to understand. Thank you for putting this together. Great job and explanation.
I've been looking for something like this for a long time, I'm thankful you posted it. I checked my sled using your formula and was off by 0.0007... Made the sled a long time ago and I don't think I'm going to adjust it! Thanks!
I watched several videos on this and yours is the best . My main issue was trying to understand the math. You did an excellent job explaining and showing how to do the calculations. Thank you very much!
Great video. You have a difference o 7 thousands over 28 inches. Alot of woodworkers I talk to say that if you have a difference below 9 thousands over 20 inches or more you are at a point where you can do fine woodworking and cabinet making. Why waste time fiddling?
Thank you. I agree. I fiddled with it a bit more just for the sake of the video. In reality I am happy with anything around or under that. Some will continue to chase true 0 and get frustrated. The sad fact is that you will never achieve true zero.
It sounds like you have to go through this every time you need to cut a different size panel. Or is this a permanent formulation that will work for anything you cut?
You only have do this once or if you ever replace your back fence for some reason. Once you have it set where you are happy with the result you secure it in place and it will be in that position whenever you use the sled.
Thanks for simplifying this, although I never have done the 5 cut method I’ve really didn’t get it that much but by how you show it helps out tremendously. Thank you
Just a huge thanks from the UK. Like others have said, I've watched loads of these and only yours is done without the presumption of knowledge. Your breakdown of the steps and showing the physical calculations was fantastic :)
Id like to say ive seen many vids on this, and still much credit to mr. Ng for this as well, but your vid best explained it to me. Im no engineer but the way you explained it made the best sense. Our brains think alike! TY
I've never heard of this method before, but I'm planning to make a slide within the next couple of months and noticed a comment in another video talking about the 5-cut method. I looked that up and came across this video. This is awesome! Thanks for making this video and explaining it so well. This is exactly what I needed.
Thanks for making this video. Best explanation of the 5 cut method! You made it very easy to understand. (i'm a nerd so I made a spreadsheet to do the math as you explained the formula.)
Fantastic video and explanation! I just bought my first “real” table saw and am making my sled. I have heard of this method but was kind of intimidated because I am not great at math. But with your demonstration I was able to get it dialed in nicely! Thank you again!!
Thanks so much for simplifying it. I got my sled to where I would have to try to adjust it 0.0015, 21 inches from my pivot. So thrilled with the results. It’s just a rough sled now. I have to get my router and sander out to finish surface it and then paste wax the underside.
Man, I have watched so many videos about this and have bee frustrated that I can't get it square. Watching the way you did it, I got it square the first time. Thank you so much!
This is very good explained. In the next weeks i'm planning to make a crosscut sled. i think i will refer this video in my video! you got yourself a new follower my friend!
I have seen so many people build a sled, and then do the 5 cut method as a demo. Every time, it comes out so close to perfect no one sane would change it, as you're almost equally likely to make it worse. And yet, everyone does it. I've made about 4 sleds so far, and each time I use a square to align the fence, and after using the 5-cut method to check the alignment, I'm always less than 1 thousands of an inch off per inch, often in the ten-thousandths range.
+Michael Graff I understand what you mean. The only reason I did it was because I wanted to show how I figured out which way to move the fence. I know to some it seems simple but to others it isn’t and I felt it was a good idea to show the whole process.
Hi, Michel... Thank you very much for your explanation. I checked my sled and discovered that I had to move the fence 0.2 mm. Now it's perfectly rectangular over a length of 400mm.
Great explanation Michael like others have said this is the best video on the 5 cut method between you and William NG. And I also now know what to do with MDF🤣🛫 a Rigid 4512 owner with a Incra TS-LS joinery System attached.
Thank you for un-complicating this process as much as possible. I followed your method, and on the second correction dialed my sled down to .0098" over 21.25".
I have 2 questions. What if you have to move the fence back towards you, without a place to put a stop block and feeler guage how would that work? And how do you measure the pivot points accurately? Is it just dead center of each screw head or as close as you can get?
If you have to move the fence towards you. With the fence still secured place the block against the fence and clamp it in place. Loosen the fence and place the feeler gauge between the block and the fence. Then with the feeler gauge in place secure the fence using a new hole. I try and get as close to the center of the pivot screw as I can. Hope that helps.
@@mkdesignsfinewoodworking Yes, that helps. Thank you. Such a simple solution, I dont know why I couldn't figure that out myself. Sometimes I over complicate things in my head I guess.
Hi Mike, very nice, clear explanation of the 5 cut method. I'm getting back into woodworking after a long hiatus. Can you share some details or plans on your cross cut sled? It looks to have 2-half inch sheets for the base with 2- three quarter for the fences along with another half inch for the replaceable insert. Any specs or info would be appreciated.
Thank you. The coed is a version of James King’s ruclips.net/video/njsD5W6fcI0/видео.html I just made mine a little bigger the over all size is 30”x30”
Outstanding. You should be an engineering professor. Glad you're not though as I've made a link to this video in a file for building my future crosscut sled
The best explanation I've seen for this method. I have a question: If I make the cuts on the other side of the blade, do I have to swap the pivot points and adjustment points?
No you do not have to swap the pivot and adjustment points. However, which direction you move the fence will change. Negative numbers move the fence away. Positive numbers you would move the fence forward. If you do swap the pivot and adjustment points then the fence movement would remain the same as before. Hope that makes sense to you. Feel free to reach out if not.
Great video! However, it leaves me with one question. I understand all the calculations, but... When you calculate the first adjustment, you multiply the result by 28 inches (distance from pivot to adjustment point). Understood. After adjusting you get a great result and don't need further adjustment. You go on to calculate how much you would need to adjust IF you felt the need to make a second adjustment. This time you also multiply the result by 28 inches. Here's the question. Since you have now moved the screw at the adjustment point, shouldn't you multiply the second result by the new distance between you pivot point and the new adjustment point? If not, why? I hope that makes sense. Thanks again for the upload. Have watched it multiple times. Keep 'em coming.
Thank you very much. The screw at the adjustment point is not the adjustment point. The adjustment point is a set spot on the fence. The screw is just there to hold fence still.
Gotcha. The adjustment point is fixed as is the pivot point (which is the screw on the right side of the fence). Thanks for the clarification. I think even I got it now. Oh, and I think you just set a RUclips record for fastest reply. 😁
It really depends on how long the piece you’re cutting is. The longer the piece the closer to zero you want it. But for the standard crosscut sled I would say 5-6 thousandths at most would be acceptable.
@@mkdesignsfinewoodworking thank you for your knowledge I came up with -0.17602881 I really don’t even know what that means in terms of getting close to zero but is this acceptable? My sled is only 18” from fence to fence so the widest piece I can cut is properly 16” comfortably.
@@mkdesignsfinewoodworking thank you tomorrow I’ll post up the measurements It’s 1am where I’m at and I wake up in 6hrs I’m zzzzzz lol Anyway ty and GN
@@mkdesignsfinewoodworking good morning My measurements are A 18.84 B 19.13 Length of cut 15.1875 Length of fence 36.875 = On my computer calculator i got -01760288065843621 On my phone calculator I got -0.17602882 The end result is much, much better than what I had before. When I put the combination square on the cut material I’m satisfied with end result
Just a thought: In reality, what we're looking for is a perfect square between the cutting line of the blade and the support fence for cuts... If we make the cut on the table and place two squares (precise and long enough) one on each side of the cut (with the separation of the thickness of the cutting blade) resting on the fence, we can gradually replace the fence until the two are identical in relation to the cutting line....
For those who find the math too intimidating or you don't like doing 10 cuts, here's another method .... ruclips.net/video/tZM1OBcC6ok/видео.html I used to use the 5 cut method but I use this method all the time now. It takes only a few minutes and you don't need to do any cuts apart from a final check cut. After I used this method I checked it with the 5 cut method and it was spot on. This is also a great method to align a miter gauge where you don't have a long fence. The only requirement apart from owning a dial indicator is you do need a thick good quality engineers square for this to work. For those who have a crosscut sled try this and you'll be surprised how easy it is.
I suggest you drill 3 holes on the adjustment edge. That way you unscrew the first screw, do the feeler gauge adjustment and drive the screw into the second hole so you don’t waste your time drilling a new hole.
The problem with that is if you predrill the holes with the fence in one position the screws will pull the fence back to that position after you adjust it.
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. I'm just finishing up a sled almost identical to yours, with a few extra bells and whistles. The question is...did you get your sled idea from King's, or did he steal it from you? :)
Haha. I got mine from him. I was working on the design of mine when he released his video. I liked his design and mimicked it. I built it about a year before I started making videos.
Beginner/stupid question... Can something like this method be used to perfect the squaring of a jig for clamping boards together? Or just square the sled down and cut a base for the board clamping jig and I'm good.
Not a stupid question at all. Cut your base after you have used this to square your sled. Take extra time to make sure you keep everything square when you assemble the jig and you should be fine.
Michael something to ponder, I have an INCRA miter Express sled with the HD 1000 miter gauge. since there is no pivot point like sled has I wonder if anyone has found a way to calibrate the miter HD 1000 gauge. Making the 5 cuts and working out the math mine came out at 0.00001673 my cut piece was 14.9375 inches long. what do you think should do?
I think you should send it to me and let me try to get it a little closer and go get yourself a new one. But only if it’s dead perfect. I can let you know how to calibrate it once I figure it out.
@@mkdesignsfinewoodworking I will email it to you! With you being a IT guy you can figure out how to down load it and 3d print it! :) I am using a Cat scan to scan it. My cat will be finished scanning soon.
oh yes..i forgot it's cold in Colorado..im in Texas so we don't get cold too often...sorry about bugging you about videos but I like your projects and info you provide!
The problem with the final adjustment exists because the fulcrum of the fence is to the right of your cut and your adjustment is 28” away. When actually the fulcrum should be at the right side of the piece and the feeler gauges should be measured from the left of you workpiece. Think of it this way, if your fence was 35 ft. away, why would you make the feeler gauge adjustment at the end of a 35 ft. fence?
OMG. You’re right. Ummm, I’m actually at a loss. I can’t believe I didn’t think of that. I just trusted the math and never thought it through. I can’t believe William Ng didn’t realize it. Thank you. You have me thinking now.
Hi. Interesting comment but I don't fully understand the problem and what the solution would be! Could you please explain the problem in more detail? Thank you very much
@@marcosmagri1460 i know, I tried to use too few words. Let me try this again. Because the square you are cutting is, lets say, 12”x12” then the error / correction should be made there. The correction I see doesn’t get measured 12” away. Instead, it seems the adjustment is being made all the way at the end of the fence…where the error would actually be greater….it increases the farther away from the cut line. I hopes this helps. I reserve the right to be wrong here, but then I would like to know how. I can still learn.
Essentially, you will never get to exact zero using this method. The only to fix it would be to put the pivot point on the cut line. Which obviously is not a viable option. You could move the pivot point closer to the blade and get closer in your measurements. However, for what we do the way we have been doing it works just fine. We do not need absolutely zero on our crosscuts. Just as close as we can get.
Thank you very much for your attention. In fact, the right thing to do would be to set the pivot point to the right (dangerously) close to the cutting line and the calibration between the pivot point and the calibration point at the same distance as the length of the fifth slat ..... In any case, it's just a geometric theory that needs to be proven in a real test.
The pivot point is where you put the screw into the fence. Make sure you do not remove this screw as you make adjustments. Only remove the one on the adjustment side.
Everyone makes the mistake of not checking the straightness of the fence. That could be a bigger error than anything. You can tram the piece of piece of wood with a machinists dial gauge to check the flatness.
Nope. It just has to have 4 sides. No matter what angles the corners are they will add up to 360 degrees and that’s all that matters. As long as it has 4 edges and not 3 or 5 it will work.
Ok I'm back because I had rebuild my sled because I started to notice my blade needed realigning So my end number was -0.0524555658 Is this acceptable within the margin of error?
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi I have a question. When you did the first test cuts and was measuring the dimensions A and B you said you could use a tape measure but would not be as accurate as the calipers. Which most people would agree. However, you measured the length of that piece with a tape measure and also the pivot length. Yes I know I am being pedantic, but how much would that affect the accuracy?
Honestly if I had a pair of calipers that large I would use them lol. But, to answer your question. Those two measurements can be done with a tape measure because you do not need the measurement down to the thousandth for those. As far as how much of a difference it would make is minute. My tape measure measures down to 16ths and I have had the cut fall between two marks so i counted that at 32nds. The most i could ever be off on those is 1/64th". 1/16th = 0.0625, a 32nd=.03125, 1/64th=0.015625. Therefore lets say my piece was actually 17 & 37/64" or 17.578125. That would put my final calculation at -0.007168 instead of -0.007174. As you can see that made a difference of about 100 thousandth of an inch so it doesn't really affect my end result. I hope that helps answer your question.
I would guess if the pivot to adjustment was out by a 1/16 - 1/32 with the equation and error ratio, and its wood its probably close enough. Don't get me wrong I spend way to much time trying to make my machines run to at least a thou.
Thank you for the video, this combined with William Ng helped me drill down on accuracy.
The industry term is "about a hair."
Thats the best explanation of the 5 cut method ive seen. Made it so easy to understand. I want to see more videos from you.
Thank you
Yo Michael me lad
Many thanks for the formula for the five cut method and the calculations to determine such. Broken down very nicely and simple enough for this old boy. Keep up the good works and God bless
Roberto
Thank you very much.
I agree with the others, this is the best explanation on this that I've seen. There is a tendency when explaining things that since the speaker knows what they are talking about, they assume that everything is clear. You did not assume, you elaborated. Very nice job!
Thank you
This is the most complete and succinct explanation of William Ng's 5 cut method I have seen on RUclips. I really appreciate your demonstration by example and walking through the formula step-by-step.
I noticed my miter saw was not cutting square while working on a furniture project I adapted the 5 cut technique for a miter saw. I used a smaller test piece about 6-1/2' square for safety. The test cuts and calculation work the same way.
The only difference is adjusting the pivot. The pivot point on my saw is the intersection of the fence and the blade. I measured 13" from the pivot toward the front of the saw for the adjustment point. The saw was out -.00193876" per inch requiring a -.025 adjustment 13" from the pivot. I clamped a square to the table supporting the saw just touching the saw frame. Next, I adjusted the angle per the saw manual, using a feeler gauge as you described. The second test cuts were accurate to -00016901 per inch.
BTW, positive error, move front of saw right, negative move left.
Also, using a square to square up a miter saw might be ok for construction, but not for furniture. First, you need a real cut to account for any blade runout Second, it's too short of a distance to be able to visually see any error.
Thank you for the great explanation.
Thank you
This is the bomb! I don't know how many of these 5 cut method videos I've watched and this by far was the easiest to follow. Was able to square up my fence in a couple of tries.
That’s awesome! Thank you.
I just saw this for the first time and I must say, this is the best explaination I've ever seen/heard. I will refer back to this if needed but I feel like this is 'known' information to me now. Thank you!
Thank you very much.
I agree with everybody else this is the best explanation on this. You explained to where a dummy like me can understand thank you.
Thank you very much!
I HAD PROBLEMS USING A WOOD POINTER... SO I FOUND A METAL PUNCH AND IT WORKS GREAT..... THANKS FOR YOUR HELP
Happy to help.
The clearest video on this. thank you so much!
Without a doubt, that was the clearest and most easily understood explanation of the 5 cut method I have ever heard. Thank you.
Thank you very much for the kind words.
About to build a crosscut sled for my saw....read about the 5 cut method. You're explanation was fantastic, precise, easy to understand. Thank you for putting this together. Great job and explanation.
Thank you very much. Glad I could help.
Thanx mate. Simplified explanation for us lessor learned souls. It worked for me and I’m quite happy. Thanx again!
Very glad I could help!
This is the best explanation of the 5 Cut Method on RUclips. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Glad you could help.
have you watch William Ng, i think he invented this method
Best calibration video I've seen.. Congrats!
Best explanation I've seen so far...ty
Most straight forward and easiest to understand description I've found. Thanks.
Just finished building my cross cut sled while watching your video. Thanks for the help!
Glad I could help.
Excellent !!! You took what could be complex and made it simple ! THANK YOU !!!
nice job on the tutorial. Just what I've been looking for. Thanks!
Thanks. Glad it helped.
Absolutely the best explanation I've seen of the 5 cut method! Thanks!!
Dean Peterson thank you. Glad I could help.
MK, this is a KISS, Down-to-earth tutorial compared to others out there. Saved your lesson for future jigs 👍👊 Thanks!
I've been looking for something like this for a long time, I'm thankful you posted it. I checked my sled using your formula and was off by 0.0007... Made the sled a long time ago and I don't think I'm going to adjust it! Thanks!
That’s awesome. I’m glad I could help.
Thank you sooooo much!
You finally explained this so well that even a 75 year old mind can understand it!
Tom
Nice job. Good video and explanation.
Thank you very much.
thanks very much for this. Agree with all the other comments that this is tye clearest explanation + demonstration Ive found on youtube.
Thank you very much.
Brilliant. Added a link to this in a file folder for my future crosscut sled.
Thank you.
I watched several videos on this and yours is the best . My main issue was trying to understand the math. You did an excellent job explaining and showing how to do the calculations. Thank you very much!
Thank you. That is what I was hoping to accomplish.
Great video. You have a difference o 7 thousands over 28 inches. Alot of woodworkers I talk to say that if you have a difference below 9 thousands over 20 inches or more you are at a point where you can do fine woodworking and cabinet making. Why waste time fiddling?
Thank you. I agree. I fiddled with it a bit more just for the sake of the video. In reality I am happy with anything around or under that. Some will continue to chase true 0 and get frustrated. The sad fact is that you will never achieve true zero.
It sounds like you have to go through this every time you need to cut a different size panel. Or is this a permanent formulation that will work for anything you cut?
You only have do this once or if you ever replace your back fence for some reason. Once you have it set where you are happy with the result you secure it in place and it will be in that position whenever you use the sled.
Thank you for making a very complicated process doable for a simpleton :)
Very glad I could help.
Great explanation..Just what I was looking for! Thank you!
I’m glad it helped! 😄
Great video
Thank you!
Thanks for simplifying this, although I never have done the 5 cut method I’ve really didn’t get it that much but by how you show it helps out tremendously. Thank you
Thank you
Thanks for the excellent explanation and showing the calculations.
Just a huge thanks from the UK. Like others have said, I've watched loads of these and only yours is done without the presumption of knowledge. Your breakdown of the steps and showing the physical calculations was fantastic :)
Thank you very much! I am very happy I could help.
Thanks for a great video. It really helped me to understand the method. Off to the workshop to try it out.
Glad I could help.
Hi, excellent practical explanation of the 5-cut method. I just applied it to gage my table saw with great success.
That’s awesome
Perfect in every way....well, 1/1000th perfect. Great video
Haha thanks!
Id like to say ive seen many vids on this, and still much credit to mr. Ng for this as well, but your vid best explained it to me. Im no engineer but the way you explained it made the best sense. Our brains think alike! TY
Glad I could help and thank you.
I've never heard of this method before, but I'm planning to make a slide within the next couple of months and noticed a comment in another video talking about the 5-cut method. I looked that up and came across this video. This is awesome! Thanks for making this video and explaining it so well. This is exactly what I needed.
This is exactly why I started making videos. I am so glad I could help.
Finally I get it! Thanks. I am subscribing with a happy thumbs up.
Yay! Thank you. Glad I could help.
Brilliantly explained, thank you.
Thank you for the kind words.
Sehr gut erklärt. Danke!
ich danke Ihnen sehr
Thanks for making this video. Best explanation of the 5 cut method! You made it very easy to understand. (i'm a nerd so I made a spreadsheet to do the math as you explained the formula.)
Great Video! Thank you!
I STOP BY EVERY TIME I MAKE A NEW SLED.. TO GET REFRESHED ON HOW TO ADJUST CORRECTLY... IT NEVER FAILS.. THANKS AGAIN
Glad I could help!
Fantastic video and explanation! I just bought my first “real” table saw and am making my sled. I have heard of this method but was kind of intimidated because I am not great at math. But with your demonstration I was able to get it dialed in nicely! Thank you again!!
That’s awesome! Glad I helped.
Love this technical stuff
I know right? Me too!
Perfect!
Well explained and very clear Thanks!
Perfect explanation, especially about the part whee the negative number comes up and how the cut line is 90 and the fence is 0…
Thank you very much. That seems to be one of the biggest things that people get confused about.
Thank you!
My pleasure.
Thanks so much for simplifying it. I got my sled to where I would have to try to adjust it 0.0015, 21 inches from my pivot. So thrilled with the results. It’s just a rough sled now. I have to get my router and sander out to finish surface it and then paste wax the underside.
That’s awesome!
Excellent tutorial
Thank you very much.
Man, I have watched so many videos about this and have bee frustrated that I can't get it square. Watching the way you did it, I got it square the first time. Thank you so much!
That’s awesome. Very happy I helped. :-)
Great job explaining a complicated process!!
Thank you very much James.
i watched this from William Ng, i think he invented this method
@@gerryvillamarzo5678, he sure did. William Ng is a brilliant woodworker.
Thank you for this easy to follow walk through!
You’re very welcome.
Awesome video it made the 5 cut method understandable to me 🤔thanks for taking the time again great video
I am glad it helped
This is very good explained. In the next weeks i'm planning to make a crosscut sled. i think i will refer this video in my video! you got yourself a new follower my friend!
Thank you very much for the huge compliment.
@@mkdesignsfinewoodworking You are welcome my friend!
I have seen so many people build a sled, and then do the 5 cut method as a demo. Every time, it comes out so close to perfect no one sane would change it, as you're almost equally likely to make it worse. And yet, everyone does it.
I've made about 4 sleds so far, and each time I use a square to align the fence, and after using the 5-cut method to check the alignment, I'm always less than 1 thousands of an inch off per inch, often in the ten-thousandths range.
+Michael Graff I understand what you mean. The only reason I did it was because I wanted to show how I figured out which way to move the fence. I know to some it seems simple but to others it isn’t and I felt it was a good idea to show the whole process.
Very clear explanation. Thanks :)
Thank uou
Hi, Michel...
Thank you very much for your explanation.
I checked my sled and discovered that I had to move the fence 0.2 mm. Now it's perfectly rectangular over a length of 400mm.
That’s awesome. Very happy I could help.
Great explanation Michael like others have said this is the best video on the 5 cut method between you and William NG.
And I also now know what to do with MDF🤣🛫 a Rigid 4512 owner with a Incra TS-LS joinery System attached.
Being compared to William is an honor. Thank you.
Tks a lot now I understand. Very well explained.
Glad I could help.:-)
Thank you for un-complicating this process as much as possible. I followed your method, and on the second correction dialed my sled down to .0098" over 21.25".
That’s awesome!
I have 2 questions. What if you have to move the fence back towards you, without a place to put a stop block and feeler guage how would that work? And how do you measure the pivot points accurately? Is it just dead center of each screw head or as close as you can get?
If you have to move the fence towards you.
With the fence still secured place the block against the fence and clamp it in place.
Loosen the fence and place the feeler gauge between the block and the fence.
Then with the feeler gauge in place secure the fence using a new hole.
I try and get as close to the center of the pivot screw as I can.
Hope that helps.
@@mkdesignsfinewoodworking Yes, that helps. Thank you. Such a simple solution, I dont know why I couldn't figure that out myself. Sometimes I over complicate things in my head I guess.
I think we all do. Lol
Thanks,
That was a good explanation. It simplified the matter fofr me to understand. Thanks a lot.
That did help. Thanks
You are most welcome.
Omg! You did simplify this. Ty!
I’m glad I could help.
I literally just got my sled dialed this AM. Thanks again
Great vid
Thank you
Excellent. What should be the standard deviation (tolerance level)
Great job much appreciated
Hi Mike, very nice, clear explanation of the 5 cut method. I'm getting back into woodworking after a long hiatus. Can you share some details or plans on your cross cut sled? It looks to have 2-half inch sheets for the base with 2- three quarter for the fences along with another half inch for the replaceable insert. Any specs or info would be appreciated.
Thank you. The coed is a version of James King’s
ruclips.net/video/njsD5W6fcI0/видео.html
I just made mine a little bigger the over all size is 30”x30”
Outstanding. You should be an engineering professor. Glad you're not though as I've made a link to this video in a file for building my future crosscut sled
Haha. I have taught a few classes in the past. Thank you.
Thanks, Michael!!!
Great job. That was explained where even I could get it.
You don’t give yourself enough credit Chris.
Thank you for the video. Does it matter if the board you use is squired up to begin with?
No it does not. As long as you rotate it clockwise after each cut it does not have to be square.
The best explanation I've seen for this method. I have a question: If I make the cuts on the other side of the blade, do I have to swap the pivot points and adjustment points?
No you do not have to swap the pivot and adjustment points. However, which direction you move the fence will change. Negative numbers move the fence away. Positive numbers you would move the fence forward. If you do swap the pivot and adjustment points then the fence movement would remain the same as before. Hope that makes sense to you. Feel free to reach out if not.
I get it. Thank you very much.
So glad, as an engineer, you said 'zero', and not 'oh'...
Lol
Great explanation! Thank you. Subbed :D
Thank you very much
Great video! However, it leaves me with one question. I understand all the calculations, but... When you calculate the first adjustment, you multiply the result by 28 inches (distance from pivot to adjustment point). Understood. After adjusting you get a great result and don't need further adjustment. You go on to calculate how much you would need to adjust IF you felt the need to make a second adjustment. This time you also multiply the result by 28 inches. Here's the question. Since you have now moved the screw at the adjustment point, shouldn't you multiply the second result by the new distance between you pivot point and the new adjustment point? If not, why?
I hope that makes sense.
Thanks again for the upload. Have watched it multiple times. Keep 'em coming.
Thank you very much. The screw at the adjustment point is not the adjustment point. The adjustment point is a set spot on the fence. The screw is just there to hold fence still.
Gotcha. The adjustment point is fixed as is the pivot point (which is the screw on the right side of the fence). Thanks for the clarification. I think even I got it now.
Oh, and I think you just set a RUclips record for fastest reply. 😁
Lol.
That was a great and easy video, TY. BTW what is an acceptable amount of error
It really depends on how long the piece you’re cutting is. The longer the piece the closer to zero you want it. But for the standard crosscut sled I would say 5-6 thousandths at most would be acceptable.
@@mkdesignsfinewoodworking thank you for your knowledge
I came up with -0.17602881
I really don’t even know what that means in terms of getting close to zero but is this acceptable? My sled is only 18” from fence to fence so the widest piece I can cut is properly 16” comfortably.
Send me your calculations. That will give me a better idea of how to help you.
@@mkdesignsfinewoodworking thank you
tomorrow I’ll post up the measurements
It’s 1am where I’m at and I wake up in 6hrs I’m zzzzzz lol
Anyway ty and GN
@@mkdesignsfinewoodworking good morning
My measurements are
A 18.84
B 19.13
Length of cut 15.1875
Length of fence 36.875 =
On my computer calculator i got
-01760288065843621
On my phone calculator I got
-0.17602882
The end result is much, much better than what I had before.
When I put the combination square on the cut material I’m satisfied with end result
A formula I can work with. I love math sometimes. Thanks.
+Michael Leal my pleasure
Just a thought: In reality, what we're looking for is a perfect square between the cutting line of the blade and the support fence for cuts...
If we make the cut on the table and place two squares (precise and long enough) one on each side of the cut (with the separation of the thickness of the cutting blade) resting on the fence, we can gradually replace the fence until the two are identical in relation to the cutting line....
Now I get it. Thank you.
You are very welcome!
For those who find the math too intimidating or you don't like doing 10 cuts, here's another method .... ruclips.net/video/tZM1OBcC6ok/видео.html
I used to use the 5 cut method but I use this method all the time now. It takes only a few minutes and you don't need to do any cuts apart from a final check cut. After I used this method I checked it with the 5 cut method and it was spot on. This is also a great method to align a miter gauge where you don't have a long fence. The only requirement apart from owning a dial indicator is you do need a thick good quality engineers square for this to work. For those who have a crosscut sled try this and you'll be surprised how easy it is.
I suggest you drill 3 holes on the adjustment edge. That way you unscrew the first screw, do the feeler gauge adjustment and drive the screw into the second hole so you don’t waste your time drilling a new hole.
The problem with that is if you predrill the holes with the fence in one position the screws will pull the fence back to that position after you adjust it.
No, predrill into just the plywood not the fence and plywood
Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
I'm just finishing up a sled almost identical to yours, with a few extra bells and whistles.
The question is...did you get your sled idea from King's, or did he steal it from you? :)
Haha. I got mine from him. I was working on the design of mine when he released his video. I liked his design and mimicked it. I built it about a year before I started making videos.
Do you measure from the centre of the pivot point to the centre of the fixing point, or measure the distance between the inside edges of both?
I guess you would say you measure from the center of each. That would be the simple answer. You are measuring from point to point.
@@mkdesignsfinewoodworking That's great, thanks for the quick reply and the video.
You are very welcome.
Beginner/stupid question...
Can something like this method be used to perfect the squaring of a jig for clamping boards together? Or just square the sled down and cut a base for the board clamping jig and I'm good.
Not a stupid question at all. Cut your base after you have used this to square your sled. Take extra time to make sure you keep everything square when you assemble the jig and you should be fine.
Michael something to ponder, I have an INCRA miter Express sled with the HD 1000 miter gauge.
since there is no pivot point like sled has I wonder if anyone has found a way to calibrate the miter HD 1000 gauge.
Making the 5 cuts and working out the math mine came out at 0.00001673 my cut piece was 14.9375 inches long. what do you think should do?
I think you should send it to me and let me try to get it a little closer and go get yourself a new one. But only if it’s dead perfect. I can let you know how to calibrate it once I figure it out.
@@mkdesignsfinewoodworking I will email it to you! With you being a IT guy you can figure out how to down load it and 3d print it! :) I am using a Cat scan to scan it. My cat will be finished scanning soon.
@@TheFalconJetDriver lol
I hope mk designs is still making videos!
Yes. I have not been able to get in the shop since January because of weather. Hope to get back to it soon. Thank you for your concern.
oh yes..i forgot it's cold in Colorado..im in Texas so we don't get cold too often...sorry about bugging you about videos but I like your projects and info you provide!
No worries. You’re not bugging me and I appreciate the comments. I promise I will get more videos done as soon as i can.
Isn't this exactly William Ng's method? I can't see how it's "simpler". You did a good job explaining it, in any case.
Yes. I didn’t change the math. I was trying to explain it in such a way that made it easier for some to understand.
The problem with the final adjustment exists because the fulcrum of the fence is to the right of your cut and your adjustment is 28” away. When actually the fulcrum should be at the right side of the piece and the feeler gauges should be measured from the left of you workpiece. Think of it this way, if your fence was 35 ft. away, why would you make the feeler gauge adjustment at the end of a 35 ft. fence?
OMG. You’re right. Ummm, I’m actually at a loss. I can’t believe I didn’t think of that. I just trusted the math and never thought it through. I can’t believe William Ng didn’t realize it. Thank you. You have me thinking now.
Hi. Interesting comment but I don't fully understand the problem and what the solution would be! Could you please explain the problem in more detail? Thank you very much
@@marcosmagri1460 i know, I tried to use too few words. Let me try this again. Because the square you are cutting is, lets say, 12”x12” then the error / correction should be made there. The correction I see doesn’t get measured 12” away. Instead, it seems the adjustment is being made all the way at the end of the fence…where the error would actually be greater….it increases the farther away from the cut line. I hopes this helps. I reserve the right to be wrong here, but then I would like to know how. I can still learn.
Essentially, you will never get to exact zero using this method. The only to fix it would be to put the pivot point on the cut line. Which obviously is not a viable option. You could move the pivot point closer to the blade and get closer in your measurements. However, for what we do the way we have been doing it works just fine. We do not need absolutely zero on our crosscuts. Just as close as we can get.
Thank you very much for your attention. In fact, the right thing to do would be to set the pivot point to the right (dangerously) close to the cutting line and the calibration between the pivot point and the calibration point at the same distance as the length of the fifth slat ..... In any case, it's just a geometric theory that needs to be proven in a real test.
question how do you measure for the pivot point?
The pivot point is where you put the screw into the fence. Make sure you do not remove this screw as you make adjustments. Only remove the one on the adjustment side.
@@mkdesignsfinewoodworking thank you
Hey seen you on the facebook page i am also on my path wish you the best new subscriber !!
Thank you very much!
Everyone makes the mistake of not checking the straightness of the fence. That could be a bigger error than anything. You can tram the piece of piece of wood with a machinists dial gauge to check the flatness.
I agree that the straightness of the fence can be an issue. But you can just as easily check it with a straight edge.
My first question is, does the part you start with have to be square all the way around?
Nope. It just has to have 4 sides. No matter what angles the corners are they will add up to 360 degrees and that’s all that matters. As long as it has 4 edges and not 3 or 5 it will work.
Great question by the way. Thank you.
👍
Ok I'm back because I had rebuild my sled because I started to notice my blade needed realigning
So my end number was -0.0524555658
Is this acceptable within the margin of error?
That should be good.😁