@@ronmaximilian6953 Hitler gave Ford the Grand Cross of the German Eagle (think Presidential Medal of Honor for Nazis) for his antisemitism and anti-worker practices.
Ford was actually not a "pioneer" in labor rights, he caved in to worker demands because they were very agitated and a union seemed likely if not for concessions. Ford hated unions, because he hated labor and didnt think they deserved rights.
Marx's last verse is just straight-up savage. He references Ford's son's death, his ties to Nazism, _and_ the way that he would eventually die, all in a couple seconds! xD
Less savage considering they didn't mention any of Marx's really dirty deeds, like disowning his illegitimate son. Or hypocritically being Bourgeois himself.
@@Rensune It's kinda funny because he criticizes Ford for being an antisemite in being referenced by the Nazis, yet Marx was also quite antisemitic as well. A lot of his anti-capitalist rhetoric was based on his hatred for Jews.
@@Etgsgghg The only "historians" or "scientists" to discredit the horrors and atrocities committed at Auschwitz and during the Holocaust are quacks. To believe them when we have so much physical evidence as to what happened during the Holocaust is either ignorance, idiocy, or blatant anti-Semitism.
The Brazil line is a reference to Fordlandia. A company town created in the late 1920s by Ford with the expectation to be a rubber plantation. It was marked up as a failure by the company after years of showing to be unprofitable and the project was ended in 1945.
Something I thought was interesting was that when it came to comparing their legacies, Ford focused more on the failures of the people inspired by Marx but Marx specifically tackled Ford's own insane and abusive actions towards his workers, Nazi sympathies, and helping to cause climate change. Given, that's because Marx himself was never a world leader or businessman, but still, it's an interesting thing to note.
To be fair, many businessmen supported Nazis. Mainly because Nazis gave them "do whatever on your factories, as long as you deliver" permission, on top of literally slave labor of POWs. Resulting in quite dystopian conditions.
But it also says something that Marx would choke Stalin and Mao out for corrupting his ideas, but Ford directly supported Hitler and would be very comfy with modern capitalist atrocities.
@@345635356^^ This exactly. It seems to me like there aren’t any problems with communism itself, but rather how it’s ideas have been manipulated and twisted to fit greedy peoples desires. That’s why there were no ‘Marxist’ countries, because Marx would’ve despised them. So they developed their own theory- ‘Marxist-Leninism’- and it flies in the face of everything Marx ever wrote.
@@345635356 Yeah, that's my point. Ford had to point to things that Marx didn't even support while Marx could very well go for the things that Ford actually did.
And so is Marx. Moreover, Hitler was a communist most of his youth, his prompt embrace of Marxists into the nazi party (they were called stake nazis: brown on the outside red on the inside) not to mention his literal pact with Stalin(!), while Ford industries produced to fight Hitler(!!!) So when push comes to shove...
@@YanPagh Ford produced to fight hitler; but they also produced for the nazis... Also the only reason hitler made a pact with stalin was because he didnt want to fight a 2 front war, he had a burning hatred for the soviet union and communism, which is shown in the millions of soviet civilians the nazis killed, and saying he was a communist for most of his youth was pulled out of your ass, and even if he was in his youth (no evidence for it) it clearly wasnt for long
@@ailurusfulgens1849 Dismantled how? All he did was call out the crimes of dictators that claimed to be following communism while perverting it (and even then not even doing that correctly, which Marx called out), and the struggles of early socialism when Russia was literally _still a developing country_ and the measures to avoid or at least mitigate famines while development occurred.
@@ailurusfulgens1849 Marx is not an ideologue, his method is that of analysis, he did not present utopian alternative to capitalism and those who did are the utopian socialists
@@SilverScroll it's even funnier; Marx died 44 years before Stalin took power, and a full 66 before Mao took power. Marx wrote an ideology that people misused decades after his death, while Henry Ford actively supported fascists in his life.
@@peachtime Exactly! Socialism (Marxism) is inherently scientific in nature. For those interested in a short read, I would recommend "Socialism: Utopian and Scientific" by Frederick Engels
So fun fact, in the Behind the scenes video, Lloyd talked a bit about how, after reading all of Marx’s most influential writings, he realized that a lot of the things Marx called for have actually been implemented in “capitalist” society, and are things we look at as normal nowadays
Well that makes sense your enemy or rival hasn't to have somethings right that you can take and add to how you do things or else you don't change and grow. It's the killmonger vs black panther situation.
Well yeah kind of how liberalism resulted in the compromise of constitutional monarchy in places where it failed social democracy sprang up due to the pressures of communist agitation.
Marx kinda spanked Ford. In the beginning Ford came out swinging, but by the end Marx has refuted it all (in a sense, you'd get that from books) and turned everything back around on Ford.
5:47 Reminds me of that line in Robocop vs Terminator when Terminator said that the third Robocop movie "failed Detroit worse than the automotive industry."
The “chronic dick boils” line is a reference to a skin condition Marx had that causes large pustules to swell up in the groin and armpits. I actually have the same condition and there are times where it’s been more painful than breaking my arm. Some theorize that the discomfort it causes was the reason Marx was grumpy a lot of the time.
As someone from Michigan, Marx obliterating Ford over how horrible the conditions were in his factories in Detroit, and comparing Ford's negative influence to Flint's water pipes was a huge plus for me. That, combined with Marx's killer final verse, and I have to give the win to Karl Marx.
But can you really blame Ford for the auto industry collapsing when it was nearly 100 years after his time? If anything Michigan was too reliant on the auto industry, and for Ford's time the factories were relatively good compared to other industries back then, but quite horrible today. I think it is quite easy to say both men were not good people, but it is also easy to state which economic system has caused more harm and death overall. If this was a fight between socialism and capitalism, it may be different. Communism is too extreme and absolute and has led to millions of deaths and abject poverty as well as a lower standing of living. The successful socialist states take the best of both systems and same with capitalist countries that still have welfare, min wage, working rights laws, unions, etc. Any absolute and extreme system is destined for failure and perfect communism only exists in fantasy.
@@misterogers9423 I mean, sure. It's not really his fault, but it is partly a fault of the Ford company, which is his legacy. It's still a diss, and comparing him to Flint's pipes is just topical. And this has nothing to do with Marx's ideology, which has been used to oppress millions of people. But, you can't fully blame Marx for all of that, as he would not agree with most Communist nations, seeing how they ignored most of his work, and only used the parts they could use to manipulate the masses. One man is a greedy asshole, and the other one is an ignorant and naive fool.
Marx actually anticipated Ford's Animal Farm reference by referencing Orwell first, calling Ford "Big Brother. Then, when Ford takes the bait, he explains why Ford is Big Brother without even referencing 1984 at all. That's one of the hardest takedown in ERB history, IMO, and I'm surprised it wasn't commented on.
@@bareakonthis. For the other people who don't have context or don't remember Soviet history clearly- Animal farm was never about the failure of communism, but the oppressive systems constructed under the guise of 'communism', which was solely used as a word to pacify the workers with. "Hey, this thing we're doing that isn't beneficial to the workers? It's actually Communism!" Animal farm doesn't criticise that there is no farm owner anymore, it criticises the new leading class of the farm *after* the human has gone away-the pigs, referencing the Soviet bureaucracy. In fact, Orwell was himself a socialist.
What I worry about in private companies is that they are not democratic. If the board of directors do something stupid, the workers can't vote them away or anything. Which can be a real problem in companies that practically have no competition such as Google and Facebook.
People often argue "workers can be stupid too" but forget that in a worker owned society, their own consequences affect themselves, whereas in a traditional firm the owner makes mistakes and the workers pay through cuts and layoffs.
Workers vote by which company they decide to work for. Don’t work for a poorly run company. It comes down to who owns the capital that was used to build the company. I wouldn’t want other people voting on how to run a company I paid for but they can vote if they collectively built it with their capital. Labor is an exchange for capital and when you make that exchange, you lose any claim to ownership. This is a fundamental problem with unions that are trying to make some claim on how the company is run.
I feel like you completely glossed over the fact/didn't go into much detail on how Henry Ford was basically a proto-fascist. It's a vital part of studying who Henry Ford was.
By cutting working hours and creting the weekends to give his workers a break while Marx demanded people to work from dusk to dawn? How? Moreover you seem not to know about Hitler's ties to communism.
I credit much of my understanding of Marx' references about Ford to Extra Credits for their recent series on Ford. Also, I remember reading Animal Farm in high school. Classic freshman literature, alongside the Odyssey and Romeo and Juliet.
Most people don't understand animal farm and think it's a story agains socialism. Meanwhile in Animal Farm socialism works absolutely fine, what ruins it in the end is the counter revolution of the pigs bringing capitalism back. That's the actual story of the book, that it doesn't matter much if you defeat the oligarchs, if you don't be careful they will come right back in one form or another.
Good review, think you may of missed the mark slightly with the dissection of the Fords Working Conditions, the 1932 Hunger March was likely the inspiration Marxs 3rd verse. Detroit suffered numerous automotive boons / declines not just in the early 2000s and the early 20th century faced several union labour disputes on the back of mounting dangerous factory conditions, unemployment and corporate "spying" these demonstrations by union workers often turned violent. The 1932 Hunger March was a particularly violent example of these issues coming to a head take a read if you get a chance, it's a harrowing but fundamental piece of history.
0:54 bread lines were actually invented in America. 3:01 this line rocks, "cant take shit on you according to ability" lmao 7:20 this is called being a class traitor, when a capitalist is one its pretty cool. Interesting that you didnt comment too much about the Ford-Nazi connection, you still mentioned it but the details would have been nice, I mean with the title "history teacher reacts" it was more of a react that talking about the history.
Loved the reaction, for the Model T style joke I believe they were referencing the fact it was so assembly line it was all one style (theres the joke that you could have your model T in any color you wanted as long as you wanted black)
Yessss! I watched the new video about an hour after it came out and I was waiting for your reaction to it! Thanks for getting it out so soon! Excited to hear your take in it :)
Regarding the notion that Karl Marx is a 'champagne socialist', it's worth remembering that only people from the middle or upper classes had the privilege of being educated at that time. The working-class were predominantly social-conservative and wouldn't have access to the same knowledge of economics that Marx did at the time to conveive of socialist or communist theory. It's why so many leaders of the socialist/communist movements were originally from the educated middle class (Marx, Lenin, Mao, etc.). I wouldn't say that would make him hypocritical, just a reflection of the economic factors of the time.
Couple notes, aside from the missed Mein Kampf reference that people have already pointed out: - "Lose your chains" was a reference to an old Karl Marx quote: "Workers of the world, unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains." - Henry Ford's mother died due to complications from Childbirth. It wasn't a murder-like thing. Though Marx did use that to make a Big Brother dig, which was pretty apt because of another pop culture reference where people say Karl Marx looks like Big Brother.
I've read animal farm. I took it as not a criticism of communism but instead more as a cautionary tale of hunger and power. Because remember, Snowball was always there he at least thought about the other animals and tried to help them from what i remember. At least until Napoleon took over and quite literally drew him off. I love animal farm because to me it sparks a question of curiosity Would communism have worked had it not been irrational minds and human wealness that polluted it? Or can such a system still work in spite of the hunger which people alwyas have. I love it for that spark. But sadly many details have faded away in my mind of that book. I still like it, I'd just like to reread it again.
@Wormy_fren Nah, you're not being dumb. As a whole, Animal Farm can be seen as how communism turns out, despite the nice vision. Orwell did write it to criticise Stalin, but looking at it as communist critique isn't wrong
It's not a critique of communism. It's a critique of Stalinism. Calling it a critique of communism is a massive misread of the book that's been going on ever since it was written, especially when you start taking a closer look at the Old Major and Snowball characters (Lenin and Trotsky respectively) who represent the ideals of socialism before Old Major dies and Snowball who tries to continue the legacy of Old Major to keep helping the animals gets chased off the farm by Napoleon (Stalin) and that there is when the farm starts spiraling into a dictatorship.
@@maxteraformexcept it very much is, as it was written by Orwell, a die-hard socialist who fought the fascists in Spain. It's a critique of stalinism and nothing more. Anything else is whining by capitalist powers who don't want people to know that the person who was arguably the 20th century's greatest writters wasn't a fan of capitalism.
As a Capitalism-leaning guy, I have to admit that although this one felt super close, I'm gonna have to give the dub to Karl Marx. Both had really good disses, but what sealed the deal for me was Marx pointing out how Ford was mentioned in Hitler's book Mein Kampf, Marx's final line talking about how Ford was (apparently) a Fascist sympathizer, and "I'll leave a Ford as expected, found on road dead" was it for me. Marx won, but I gotta give Ford credit where it's due. Edit: No, I didn’t know Ford was a Fascist sympathizer. We weren’t taught that in my highschool when we talked about him. Have you considered that not all schools teach the same things?
No apparently about it. Ford was even awarded the highest honor by the 3rd Reich, the Grand Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle. I'm assuming in the US, they did not teach that part about his history.
I feel like Henry Ford’s disses to Marx leaned too heavily to “Ugh, you smell!” Marx actually made a great argument and kept on dealing relentless lyrical punches. Marx takes the win here.
@@YanPaghI assume Kathryn was moreso referring to the disses about Ford's family deaths, abusive factory conditions, and the fact that he was a Nazi sympathizer.
The fact Marx philosophy is so flawed it ended with mass genocides. Pretty sure those were valid criticisms. Him being dirty was just the cheery on top 😂
kinda strange to think off that most of the large us car brands used to work for ford like dodge and if i remember right cadilac and chevy and its mostly thanks to ford that someone like us can buy a car with the mass production
When I heard "Frankly Hank it's clear Auschwitz side you were on," I literally had the reflexive thought "I wonder if that history teacher who did the ERB reactions is still going," glad to see you're still taking names!
I personally think Marx won. Ford was on the offensive and never really took him seriously, just dismissing his points and criticisms completely while directing a lot of ad hominem attacks his way. But Marx not only made points against Ford, but also refuted Ford's throughout the entire battle.
As a communist myself, who has read marx and follows a marx on an ideological scale, he was very improverished, maybe not earlier in his life but there are other historical figures such as August Von Willich, , Willich came from a very comfy background as his father was a Prussian military officer. My point is though, that Marx commonly wrote to friedrich about how much he was struggling in his life, and why henry ford mentions how he had to sadly bury his daughters. (Edited note, Marx was NOT a utopian and or Rich, like i previously stated. Marx's even wrote a whole book critquing Utopian socialism and socialism like that in his book "Critque of the Gotha Progamme".)
Well economist are pragmatist, never idealist. The 1st thing my lecturer beat out of us in economy major in coallague. "F your ideology. Stare at the real world!"😂
The last line where Ford talks about how many people Marx had to bury trumps any comeback Marx could possibly have. There is no argument for that amount of dead. So with one line Ford took this hands down.
@@straighttalkwithkyle7947Except Marx specifically calls out that It wasn't communism that killed all of those people, but greed, and that he should read a book. Kinda like you. Also, imagine thinking the nazi has the moral high ground cuz "Communism bad".
@@straighttalkwithkyle7947 Only problem is that Marx advocated for a classless society with nearly unlimited civil liberties so…… dissing people like Stalin doesn’t do much to Marx
hey I haven’t watched your video for a while (since you first started reacting to ERB lul). You got so much more comfortable with the camera it’s crazy.
The one thing you can learn about Karl Marx after reading his works, is that he would absolutely hate Lenin, Stalin, Mao and virtually all communist revolutions that happened in history. Marx quite a few times made sure to point out, that a communist revolution in a country that does not have a strong economic development, and a rich class of bourgeoisie, would ultimate always end up as a dictatorship, even if it has good intentions.
Stalin was more an anti communist, but it's hard to judge someone who had to lead in such desastrouse circumstances. The Soviet Union, after it managed to get away from the monarchic tyranny was instantly attacked by the west over and over again up to the try to just genocide all of them. What do you think the USA or Europe would look like if this happened there? Remember 9/11 and how batshit crazy the USA went? Now take that x100000. Lenin himself died too early, he overall saw the Soviet Union having reached state capitalism and that as a step toward socialism, but it never went beyond that. China and Mao is an even bigger topic. Being just a big victims in 2.WW as the soviets, with Japan going full Asian Nazi terror on them, they both instantly weer declared the main enemy of NATO (which integretad the german Nazis just fine...), so not only had to take care of their million bleeding wounds, the rebuild, the overall developement but also to arm themselves up against this directly following aggression, now nuclear. Hunger catastrophes weer by the way a general problem in the early 20th century and before. Mao's culture revolution ended them - and if peopel would have acted MORE communictic = thinking about everyone, not just themselves, there would have been much less problems.
This! But every time I explain that Karl Marx had good ideas and communism went against everything he stood for and he would've hated those men and what they did in his name I'm called a commie. People REALLY need to actually learn their history and not talking points to win an argument.
The biggest thing that Henry Ford claimed credit for - the 40 hour work week - wasn’t even his idea. Far more people pushed far harder for the life-work balance of “eight hours for work, eight for rest, and eight for what you will,” and paid dearly for it, like the Haymarket Eight.
Respectfully very much disagree. Marx countered every would be valid critism Ford levied against him whilst slamming him with plenty that Ford couldnt respond against, leaving Ford with just petty points. I wanna list them out c: Ford against Marx; 1) Your ideology caused mass state sanctioned murder. Countered by Marx effectively denouncing the people who say he inspired them like Mao and Stalin. Those people used his work to manipulate people for their own gain and Marx wouldve likely hated them. 2) You're hypocritical, a capitalist bankrolled you. Countered by Marx by in a 2 ways. A) sharing money is part of communism so it isnt incompatible and B) When he needed to he was willing to sacrifice personal comforts for the cause, like his pants. Fords critism also just doesnt hold up on slight inspection. Capitalism was the ruling ideology, you need to participate in it to survive. Having to do that doesnt invalidate your critisms of the system. Ford's petty arguments; 1) You're poor 2) You're not well groomed 3) You have dick boils, a medical condition he'd need money to treat. So basically a varient of "you're poor" 4) You're children died, also just "you're poor and lived in the 1800s" 5) You talk a lot Compare that to all of the heavy ass slams Marx made against Ford and its pretty freaking clear to me who won c:
Marks has it. The flow from Fird's destruction of his oldest son, to climate change ending with that Alschwitz line. He didn't start strong but ended on fire.
I'm pretty far left but I have very little knowledge of Marx as a person, and I care about Ford as a person even less. A lot of the matchups on ERB lately haven't had me hyped at all, so it's good to get a perspective that makes me appreciate it a little more (the best is pretty sick ngl)
Marx was a Jerk, but I think he was a witty entertaining writer and his ideas aren't as scary as the States that claimed him after his death. Important philophical parts are Dialectical Materialism, and Class Conflict.
I kinda agree with Karl Marx on the fact Greed, not his philosophy, killed so many people, because the so-called "Communist" Dictators didn't apply shit from his teachings.
I kinda wish that Lloyd would have used his normal voice instead of attempting the accent... because Marx sounds more Russian than German, and it kinda takes me out of it a bit. With that said, Marx won, hands down.
Lloyd talks about the accent in the behind the scenes video. Marx came from Prussia so his accent would have not been the "standard" German accent, but would have had some Russian or Polish influences. He didn't want to use the same accent he used for either Hitler or Gorbachev so he took some online voice lessons.
What I would really love if you went back after each verse and go through each bar to explain the historical context of each one. Still love your videos!
“So congrats, your legacy’s in ashes, remembered as the Fascist sympathizing cause of climate change and car crashes.” That single line alone gave the W to Marx.
I really appreciated how they portrayed both battlers Ford was a little bit kooky a little fun, but with darkness behind him. There were a lot of ad hominems. He wants to be seen to be winning the argument. Marx was total grumpy refutation
My critique of the vid is that more time was spent on Ford as a person. While Marx was more attacked for his idea. So it wasn’t as much capitalism vs communism or Ford vs Marx. It was Ford vs Communism. The writing was good but I just wished they had a better balance
karl marx absolutely destroyed ford with the last verse + "im dropping you like hitler dropped your name in mein kampf" he also defended against the criticism much better as ford doesnt really have any excuses for anything he did whereas marx actively fought for something good, greed just led to the destruction of his idea
Hey, I was waiting for your reaction! I was like, I need an adult! LOL. Srsly, I needed the history teacher up in this joint. 👌🏽. Drop some knowledge on me! 📚🤓
In all honesty this was very very close, but I think Ford pulled out a win by a very narrow margin. Marx spent more time having to refute his philosophy by essentially going with, "That's not real Socialism, that's not real Communism." Talking more about the flowery parts of those two ideologies while downplaying the worst parts of them. Saying sharing money is what Communism is about; except when he leaves out that money is shared out only after it is stolen from someone else. Also, the bourgeoisie, are not the rich one-percenters everybody says they are. The bourgeoisie are the middle class and he calls for their killing and general eradication in his books. Attacking Ford on his family and Facist support was indeed smart. However talking about his roots and how his father gave him stuff to indicate he came from a privileged background is not true. Ford's roots are a lot more humble than that whereas Karl Marx is a hypocrite because he came from an upper middleclass background. Which is typical of Socialists, especially in America. They claim to be working class but they often come from well to do families and are a part of the laptop middle or upper middle-class. So points off for that. As Ford grew into his later years he did become more paranoid. His utopia in the Amazon did go awry because he tried to institute his progressive work schedule in an industry where it would not work because Rubber harvest happens early in the morning or later towards evening. His working conditions were progressive and revolutionary for his time, he paid better and instituted the 40hr work week with better pay for his workers while in Communist countries you worked long hours in factories for small wages with food stolen from the rural communities. The biggest nail to hammer Ford with is indeed his support of Hitler and Facism. The building of Auschwitz and the like. Though when you compare that with how Marx created a movement that inspired the creation of an ideology based on greed and envy, that led to the deaths of 100 million people, and counting, over the course of a century, I think it pales in comparison. Plus Communist Russia had killed more people in the time before Hitler took power than Hitler ever did in his entire time in power. Hitting Marx for being unwashed and foul smelling is low hanging fruit, so no points there. Marx attacking his controlling tendencies, how it can be argued that he drove his son to an early grave (even though his son was an avid drinker despite his father being heavily against it), strong argument. Ford hitting Marx for being happy to take Capitalist money as long as it serves his cause is a huge haymaker against Marx. Marx mentioned that Ford's sibling killed their mother. People who see that are going to think she was murdered when actually she died in childbirth after giving birth to the 6th and final child. Both Mom and chuld did not survive. Not a dig really and very misleading. As I said, Ford squeaks by with a win by a very narrow margin. Marx loses because he spends more time refusting his philosophy, is a hypocrite in more ways than Ford ever was, and only had Ford's later life to hit on while Ford had Marx's entire life and what he inspired to go off of.
Model T lack of style line is referring to the fact that after the initial success, every time Ford tried to bring forward a "new" design, it was always criticized by his own family and managers as being too similar to the model T. He could never seem to think of anything new
@@ronmaximilian6953 that also means he was racist. Anti-semitism is a form of racism. By the way, if the choice is between a nazi and a commie, I would sadly pick the commie side.
That final line, as someone who's seen plenty of older Ford trucks have their engines fail when other trucks of similar have kept on, ensured Marx's victory in my mind. That might just be my own bias against Fords though, lol.
I've watched and I could say dead even too. Ford used all of his ammo in the beginning then Karl Marx came out strong in the end but both dead even in the middle being round 2. Both came out with ad hominems and just clearly mentioning their failures and success. That last line is overhyped. It hit me but Karl Marx died younger and from "acute bronchitis." Sure medicine wasn't effective but kids mostly got acute bronchitis.
@@XxY0uMadbr0xXSalazar True, true. Ford also started repackaging disses with insulting Marx's hygiene, which made it more evident that he had been to quick on the throttle, though Marx did a similar thing, with Ford's ties to fascism, first with the Mein Kampf (I don't know how to spell it) line, then the Nazi Factory/Auschwitz line. So dead even would be about the best way to describe it, since, as Terry pointed out, they used the same - or at least similar - tactics against each other.
@@pluto-skies4323 I would say Marx's diss on Ford being named in Mein Kampf is a separate point then when he later calls him out on the Nazi factory. The first is Hitler acknowledging inspiration from Ford, which is bad enough, while the second is about Ford himself actively supporting Nazism. It escalates a similar theme but are two different arguments.
Im reminded of a comment my grandfather made on the subject: capitalists and socialists both killed people, they both had their points, and they both knew how to push people. The difference: one had mechanisms to not implode on itself, and was apart of a society that as long as it maintained a level of diligence, would keep it going. The other was born out of the part of the world where not only was it just "meant to work", but was also instituted in the area of the world where diligence was often done at either the end of a gun, or in such a manner that had a lot of uncreative people being promoted for being the biggest drone.
Who won? YOU DECIDE!
Easy Karl Marx W.
Beg to your mom or dad
Ford, the final bar in the first verse ended it.
@@Nietzscheisdead-God1900 hard disagree, that one bar fails to carry any weight vs marx's final verse. A complete, and total, beheading at the end.
Seeing as Marxism doesn't work, Karl Marx obviously lost.
Thanks Mr. Terry sorry about that spitball last week :/
🤯
Oh hey
you blocked me on your channel
The legends themselves have descended upon us
The legends have arrived! This is peak community connection
"I'm dropping you like Hitler dropped your name in Mein Kampf" Marx did not make excuses for the terror on the mic, holy smokes.
He said he wouldn't.
I mean, he didn't hold back on insulting other economists IRL, so it's actually absolutely in character for him to unload like that.
Marx.was mentioned far more than Ford in both of Hitler's books. And between the Ford and Marx, I'm not sure which was the bigger antisemite
@@ronmaximilian6953 marx was Jewish which is why the context of him being mentioned unfavorably vs Ford being mentioned favorably is important.
@@ronmaximilian6953 Hitler gave Ford the Grand Cross of the German Eagle (think Presidential Medal of Honor for Nazis) for his antisemitism and anti-worker practices.
Ford was actually not a "pioneer" in labor rights, he caved in to worker demands because they were very agitated and a union seemed likely if not for concessions.
Ford hated unions, because he hated labor and didnt think they deserved rights.
Yes, Exactly the point that marx critizes so much.
Karl Marx was a harvey Weinstein dude when he delt with women.
Ford hated unions because he thought they were a Jewish conspiracy to weaken the white west 🙃
Yup. My mother's uncle was killed by Pinkerton Agents hired by Ford.
Marx's last verse is just straight-up savage. He references Ford's son's death, his ties to Nazism, _and_ the way that he would eventually die, all in a couple seconds! xD
Also, Found On Road Dead. FORD.
Hitler's ties to communism were way stronger. So little you folks know about it.
Less savage considering they didn't mention any of Marx's really dirty deeds, like disowning his illegitimate son.
Or hypocritically being Bourgeois himself.
@@RensuneYou cannot disown an illegitimate child. The child has to be legitimate to be disowned. Maybe you mean he refused to acknowledge it.
@@Rensune It's kinda funny because he criticizes Ford for being an antisemite in being referenced by the Nazis, yet Marx was also quite antisemitic as well. A lot of his anti-capitalist rhetoric was based on his hatred for Jews.
"Auschwitz side you were on" 🗿 That's unrecoverable
Tbf in in recent years that historical event has been discredited a lot by historians and scientists so I wouldn't give it that much ammunition
@@Etgsgghg no
@@Etgsgghg The only "historians" or "scientists" to discredit the horrors and atrocities committed at Auschwitz and during the Holocaust are quacks. To believe them when we have so much physical evidence as to what happened during the Holocaust is either ignorance, idiocy, or blatant anti-Semitism.
@@Etgsgghgfollow your leader
@@EtgsgghgThe Holocaust....? Are you perhaps stupid?
The Brazil line is a reference to Fordlandia. A company town created in the late 1920s by Ford with the expectation to be a rubber plantation. It was marked up as a failure by the company after years of showing to be unprofitable and the project was ended in 1945.
Also the double entendre, the city is located in the state of Pará, known for the Pará Nuts, hence the "nuts"
@@jacksonfogo2 also Brasil Nuts
Ford, Found On Road Dead. What a killer finishing line.
Exactly lol I’ve had nothing but problems with my Ford F250
My dad says “Fix Or Repair Daily”
Fucked Over Rebuilt Dodge.
@@PhreakinPhilipAnother old classic Ford dis is the counterpart to Ford fanatics’ “First on race day” line is “F’ed on race day.”
F'ed Over Rebuilt Dodge.
Something I thought was interesting was that when it came to comparing their legacies, Ford focused more on the failures of the people inspired by Marx but Marx specifically tackled Ford's own insane and abusive actions towards his workers, Nazi sympathies, and helping to cause climate change. Given, that's because Marx himself was never a world leader or businessman, but still, it's an interesting thing to note.
To be fair, many businessmen supported Nazis. Mainly because Nazis gave them "do whatever on your factories, as long as you deliver" permission, on top of literally slave labor of POWs. Resulting in quite dystopian conditions.
But it also says something that Marx would choke Stalin and Mao out for corrupting his ideas, but Ford directly supported Hitler and would be very comfy with modern capitalist atrocities.
Henry Ford also financed the nazi movement
@@345635356^^ This exactly. It seems to me like there aren’t any problems with communism itself, but rather how it’s ideas have been manipulated and twisted to fit greedy peoples desires.
That’s why there were no ‘Marxist’ countries, because Marx would’ve despised them. So they developed their own theory- ‘Marxist-Leninism’- and it flies in the face of everything Marx ever wrote.
@@345635356 Yeah, that's my point. Ford had to point to things that Marx didn't even support while Marx could very well go for the things that Ford actually did.
Looked it up myself, Henry Ford’s mother died from complications of child birth… so it wasn’t like his sibling murdered her in a way I assumed 😅
I first thought of childbirth I didn’t think it meant murder
I was thinking that too.
I think they meant for it to be that way. It was clear ERB had a Marx side bias. Which can sometimes happen
wtf you mean@@nutjobification
@@nutjobification Well, if you had to choose one who inspired Stalin or someone covertly supporting Hitler, I'd rather choose the former.
It's always good to remember that Ford’s name is mentioned in Mein Kampf
And so is Marx. Moreover, Hitler was a communist most of his youth, his prompt embrace of Marxists into the nazi party (they were called stake nazis: brown on the outside red on the inside) not to mention his literal pact with Stalin(!), while Ford industries produced to fight Hitler(!!!)
So when push comes to shove...
@@YanPagh Ford produced to fight hitler; but they also produced for the nazis... Also the only reason hitler made a pact with stalin was because he didnt want to fight a 2 front war, he had a burning hatred for the soviet union and communism, which is shown in the millions of soviet civilians the nazis killed, and saying he was a communist for most of his youth was pulled out of your ass, and even if he was in his youth (no evidence for it) it clearly wasnt for long
Why is that? is Henry Ford suddenly a Nazi now?
Henry Ford was right
So was Marx's
I feel you missed a *really* big diss, Mr. Terry, when Marx brought up how _Hitler_ name-dropped Ford in _Mein Kampf_ .
Is that a diss though?
Little we talk about Hitler's connection with communism, and I am not just talking about the pact with Stalin (uff...)
@@learnitall3078yes. Ford was anti-semetic.
@@YanPaghlike killing all of them the mere months of taking power?
@@YanPagh Yeah, Hitler and the Commies were very connected, that's why they were the first. "First they came for the Communists."
Friggin, Karl Marx takes this. His end line is killer, while Ford is making he's smelly jokes still which feel a little desperate
If you ignore the parts were ford dismantled his ideology, sure.
@@ailurusfulgens1849 Dismantled how? All he did was call out the crimes of dictators that claimed to be following communism while perverting it (and even then not even doing that correctly, which Marx called out), and the struggles of early socialism when Russia was literally _still a developing country_ and the measures to avoid or at least mitigate famines while development occurred.
@@ailurusfulgens1849 Marx is not an ideologue, his method is that of analysis, he did not present utopian alternative to capitalism and those who did are the utopian socialists
@@SilverScroll it's even funnier; Marx died 44 years before Stalin took power, and a full 66 before Mao took power. Marx wrote an ideology that people misused decades after his death, while Henry Ford actively supported fascists in his life.
@@peachtime Exactly! Socialism (Marxism) is inherently scientific in nature. For those interested in a short read, I would recommend "Socialism: Utopian and Scientific" by Frederick Engels
While Ford took the first verse, Marx absolutely dominated the latter 2. Can't help but give this win to Karl Marx
Not hard, though. Ford was a monster, while Marx showed clearly why despotism and slavery, no matter how often you rename it, can't work.
@@miriamweller812go back to history class
@@anothersouli think you should
marx took the first verse with “hitler dropped your name in mein kampf”. That might have won the whole battle tbh
@@trumanbadra8003 name three countries where communism has been successful
So fun fact, in the Behind the scenes video, Lloyd talked a bit about how, after reading all of Marx’s most influential writings, he realized that a lot of the things Marx called for have actually been implemented in “capitalist” society, and are things we look at as normal nowadays
Well that makes sense your enemy or rival hasn't to have somethings right that you can take and add to how you do things or else you don't change and grow. It's the killmonger vs black panther situation.
??? which things?
@@wildfirewatcher6809 Pretty much anything to do with workers unions and protections stems from Marx's ideology.
Well yeah kind of how liberalism resulted in the compromise of constitutional monarchy in places where it failed social democracy sprang up due to the pressures of communist agitation.
Well yea, because the labor movements by the workers won those things. Would capitalists just willingly "implement" workers' rights?
Marx’s last verses were brutal, but it’s the Flint water line that secured his victory for me.
Marx kinda spanked Ford.
In the beginning Ford came out swinging, but by the end Marx has refuted it all (in a sense, you'd get that from books) and turned everything back around on Ford.
5:47 Reminds me of that line in Robocop vs Terminator when Terminator said that the third Robocop movie "failed Detroit worse than the automotive industry."
yess this is what i thought too
Extra History did a segment on Ford from his beginnings to his downfall to madness. Worth a watch.
I am going to check this out thanks.
Oy vey.
The “chronic dick boils” line is a reference to a skin condition Marx had that causes large pustules to swell up in the groin and armpits. I actually have the same condition and there are times where it’s been more painful than breaking my arm. Some theorize that the discomfort it causes was the reason Marx was grumpy a lot of the time.
😮😢
As someone from Michigan, Marx obliterating Ford over how horrible the conditions were in his factories in Detroit, and comparing Ford's negative influence to Flint's water pipes was a huge plus for me. That, combined with Marx's killer final verse, and I have to give the win to Karl Marx.
But can you really blame Ford for the auto industry collapsing when it was nearly 100 years after his time? If anything Michigan was too reliant on the auto industry, and for Ford's time the factories were relatively good compared to other industries back then, but quite horrible today. I think it is quite easy to say both men were not good people, but it is also easy to state which economic system has caused more harm and death overall. If this was a fight between socialism and capitalism, it may be different. Communism is too extreme and absolute and has led to millions of deaths and abject poverty as well as a lower standing of living. The successful socialist states take the best of both systems and same with capitalist countries that still have welfare, min wage, working rights laws, unions, etc. Any absolute and extreme system is destined for failure and perfect communism only exists in fantasy.
@@misterogers9423 I mean, sure. It's not really his fault, but it is partly a fault of the Ford company, which is his legacy. It's still a diss, and comparing him to Flint's pipes is just topical.
And this has nothing to do with Marx's ideology, which has been used to oppress millions of people. But, you can't fully blame Marx for all of that, as he would not agree with most Communist nations, seeing how they ignored most of his work, and only used the parts they could use to manipulate the masses. One man is a greedy asshole, and the other one is an ignorant and naive fool.
Marx actually anticipated Ford's Animal Farm reference by referencing Orwell first, calling Ford "Big Brother. Then, when Ford takes the bait, he explains why Ford is Big Brother without even referencing 1984 at all. That's one of the hardest takedown in ERB history, IMO, and I'm surprised it wasn't commented on.
That's a massive stretch.
Also very important to note Orwell was a socialist.
Animal Farm was about Stalinism, not Marxism.
@@bareakonTHANK YOUUUU
@@bareakonthis.
For the other people who don't have context or don't remember Soviet history clearly-
Animal farm was never about the failure of communism, but the oppressive systems constructed under the guise of 'communism', which was solely used as a word to pacify the workers with.
"Hey, this thing we're doing that isn't beneficial to the workers? It's actually Communism!"
Animal farm doesn't criticise that there is no farm owner anymore, it criticises the new leading class of the farm *after* the human has gone away-the pigs, referencing the Soviet bureaucracy.
In fact, Orwell was himself a socialist.
Marx absolutely won this by miles, Ford's lines amounted to "You smell" and "How dare you try to change society while living in society".
Parasites, socialists do not live without parasitizing others
What I worry about in private companies is that they are not democratic. If the board of directors do something stupid, the workers can't vote them away or anything. Which can be a real problem in companies that practically have no competition such as Google and Facebook.
People often argue "workers can be stupid too" but forget that in a worker owned society, their own consequences affect themselves, whereas in a traditional firm the owner makes mistakes and the workers pay through cuts and layoffs.
Workers vote by which company they decide to work for. Don’t work for a poorly run company. It comes down to who owns the capital that was used to build the company. I wouldn’t want other people voting on how to run a company I paid for but they can vote if they collectively built it with their capital. Labor is an exchange for capital and when you make that exchange, you lose any claim to ownership. This is a fundamental problem with unions that are trying to make some claim on how the company is run.
@@chemquestscan't control which company owns whatever town you were born in
@@FourthIdentity-gu2zk but you don’t have to stay in your hometown. Many people move away for good work.
@@chemquests And how does one move towns without money?
Marx was cooking Ford the whole battle, but especially in the second and third verses. Easy Marx W
Ford didn't WANT better working conditions or work hours. He relented because the alternative was his fascist head rolling
I feel like you completely glossed over the fact/didn't go into much detail on how Henry Ford was basically a proto-fascist. It's a vital part of studying who Henry Ford was.
By cutting working hours and creting the weekends to give his workers a break while Marx demanded people to work from dusk to dawn? How? Moreover you seem not to know about Hitler's ties to communism.
The went fully into that lmao
I credit much of my understanding of Marx' references about Ford to Extra Credits for their recent series on Ford. Also, I remember reading Animal Farm in high school. Classic freshman literature, alongside the Odyssey and Romeo and Juliet.
Most people don't understand animal farm and think it's a story agains socialism.
Meanwhile in Animal Farm socialism works absolutely fine, what ruins it in the end is the counter revolution of the pigs bringing capitalism back. That's the actual story of the book, that it doesn't matter much if you defeat the oligarchs, if you don't be careful they will come right back in one form or another.
Good review, think you may of missed the mark slightly with the dissection of the Fords Working Conditions, the 1932 Hunger March was likely the inspiration Marxs 3rd verse. Detroit suffered numerous automotive boons / declines not just in the early 2000s and the early 20th century faced several union labour disputes on the back of mounting dangerous factory conditions, unemployment and corporate "spying" these demonstrations by union workers often turned violent. The 1932 Hunger March was a particularly violent example of these issues coming to a head take a read if you get a chance, it's a harrowing but fundamental piece of history.
Karl Marx last verse was too good
0:54 bread lines were actually invented in America.
3:01 this line rocks, "cant take shit on you according to ability" lmao
7:20 this is called being a class traitor, when a capitalist is one its pretty cool.
Interesting that you didnt comment too much about the Ford-Nazi connection, you still mentioned it but the details would have been nice, I mean with the title "history teacher reacts" it was more of a react that talking about the history.
Loved the reaction, for the Model T style joke I believe they were referencing the fact it was so assembly line it was all one style (theres the joke that you could have your model T in any color you wanted as long as you wanted black)
Yessss! I watched the new video about an hour after it came out and I was waiting for your reaction to it! Thanks for getting it out so soon! Excited to hear your take in it :)
Regarding the notion that Karl Marx is a 'champagne socialist', it's worth remembering that only people from the middle or upper classes had the privilege of being educated at that time. The working-class were predominantly social-conservative and wouldn't have access to the same knowledge of economics that Marx did at the time to conveive of socialist or communist theory. It's why so many leaders of the socialist/communist movements were originally from the educated middle class (Marx, Lenin, Mao, etc.). I wouldn't say that would make him hypocritical, just a reflection of the economic factors of the time.
Couple notes, aside from the missed Mein Kampf reference that people have already pointed out:
- "Lose your chains" was a reference to an old Karl Marx quote: "Workers of the world, unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains."
- Henry Ford's mother died due to complications from Childbirth. It wasn't a murder-like thing. Though Marx did use that to make a Big Brother dig, which was pretty apt because of another pop culture reference where people say Karl Marx looks like Big Brother.
Came in for the ERB, it's been a little while...very glad to see your incredible success!
"Frankly Hank it's clear Auschwitz side you're on" is the most cleverly savage line.
You reacted so quickly! We can always rely on you to get there first!
I've read animal farm. I took it as not a criticism of communism but instead more as a cautionary tale of hunger and power. Because remember, Snowball was always there he at least thought about the other animals and tried to help them from what i remember. At least until Napoleon took over and quite literally drew him off. I love animal farm because to me it sparks a question of curiosity
Would communism have worked had it not been irrational minds and human wealness that polluted it? Or can such a system still work in spite of the hunger which people alwyas have. I love it for that spark. But sadly many details have faded away in my mind of that book. I still like it, I'd just like to reread it again.
Animal Farm is a criticism of Stalin's Soviet Union, not of communism as a whole
@@maxteraform agreed, I'll be honest I'm like sick right now so my dumbass blanked out right there. Thanks for being more specific than me.
@Wormy_fren
Nah, you're not being dumb. As a whole, Animal Farm can be seen as how communism turns out, despite the nice vision. Orwell did write it to criticise Stalin, but looking at it as communist critique isn't wrong
It's not a critique of communism. It's a critique of Stalinism.
Calling it a critique of communism is a massive misread of the book that's been going on ever since it was written, especially when you start taking a closer look at the Old Major and Snowball characters (Lenin and Trotsky respectively) who represent the ideals of socialism before Old Major dies and Snowball who tries to continue the legacy of Old Major to keep helping the animals gets chased off the farm by Napoleon (Stalin) and that there is when the farm starts spiraling into a dictatorship.
@@maxteraformexcept it very much is, as it was written by Orwell, a die-hard socialist who fought the fascists in Spain.
It's a critique of stalinism and nothing more. Anything else is whining by capitalist powers who don't want people to know that the person who was arguably the 20th century's greatest writters wasn't a fan of capitalism.
As a Capitalism-leaning guy, I have to admit that although this one felt super close, I'm gonna have to give the dub to Karl Marx.
Both had really good disses, but what sealed the deal for me was Marx pointing out how Ford was mentioned in Hitler's book Mein Kampf, Marx's final line talking about how Ford was (apparently) a Fascist sympathizer, and "I'll leave a Ford as expected, found on road dead" was it for me. Marx won, but I gotta give Ford credit where it's due.
Edit: No, I didn’t know Ford was a Fascist sympathizer. We weren’t taught that in my highschool when we talked about him. Have you considered that not all schools teach the same things?
No apparently about it. Ford was even awarded the highest honor by the 3rd Reich, the Grand Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle. I'm assuming in the US, they did not teach that part about his history.
Oh no, not apparently.
Nah he was pretty open about it fam lol
@@RejectHumanityReturn2Monke Actually, yes apparently because we werent taught this in my high school when talking about Ford
@@kch1303 I don’t look into Ford much. For the longest time I just knew him as the guy that made the 9 to 5 job schedule and did stuff with cars
I feel like Henry Ford’s disses to Marx leaned too heavily to “Ugh, you smell!” Marx actually made a great argument and kept on dealing relentless lyrical punches. Marx takes the win here.
Like "uh your most succesful car? I don't like it" what kind of argument is that.
@@YanPaghI assume Kathryn was moreso referring to the disses about Ford's family deaths, abusive factory conditions, and the fact that he was a Nazi sympathizer.
The fact Marx philosophy is so flawed it ended with mass genocides. Pretty sure those were valid criticisms. Him being dirty was just the cheery on top 😂
But As Marx stated, that wasn't his ideology, and also like he said actually fucking read him lol.@@nutjobification
@@YanPaghImagine having surface level comprehension.
Couldn't be you man.
Karl killed him. Now I wanna see Marx vs Bakunin.
"this battle's been a blowout like that hemmorhage in your head" sums up how i think this battle went
kinda strange to think off that most of the large us car brands used to work for ford like dodge and if i remember right cadilac and chevy and its mostly thanks to ford that someone like us can buy a car with the mass production
You being able to buy a car is on of the worst thing in modern history.
Had to read Animal Farm alongside Crucible (English teacher wanted to show how dangerous an ignorant mind can be manipulated on both sides).
I loved those books, can't believe i forgot about crucible
the city in brazil was Fordlandia for those unaware
When I heard "Frankly Hank it's clear Auschwitz side you were on," I literally had the reflexive thought "I wonder if that history teacher who did the ERB reactions is still going," glad to see you're still taking names!
Marx’s middle verse was great with lose yourself Eminem and flint lines. That’s what won it for me.
I personally think Marx won. Ford was on the offensive and never really took him seriously, just dismissing his points and criticisms completely while directing a lot of ad hominem attacks his way. But Marx not only made points against Ford, but also refuted Ford's throughout the entire battle.
As a communist myself, who has read marx and follows a marx on an ideological scale, he was very improverished, maybe not earlier in his life but there are other historical figures such as August Von Willich, , Willich came from a very comfy background as his father was a Prussian military officer. My point is though, that Marx commonly wrote to friedrich about how much he was struggling in his life, and why henry ford mentions how he had to sadly bury his daughters. (Edited note, Marx was NOT a utopian and or Rich, like i previously stated. Marx's even wrote a whole book critquing Utopian socialism and socialism like that in his book "Critque of the Gotha Progamme".)
Very true
Well economist are pragmatist, never idealist. The 1st thing my lecturer beat out of us in economy major in coallague. "F your ideology. Stare at the real world!"😂
Henry had the funny lines, but Marx won the battle with the serious jaw dropping lines
I’m personally a socialist so naturally I’m gonna be a little biased, but I think even compensating for bias, Marx took that battle easily
You and I both!
The last line where Ford talks about how many people Marx had to bury trumps any comeback Marx could possibly have. There is no argument for that amount of dead. So with one line Ford took this hands down.
@@straighttalkwithkyle7947Except Marx specifically calls out that It wasn't communism that killed all of those people, but greed, and that he should read a book. Kinda like you.
Also, imagine thinking the nazi has the moral high ground cuz "Communism bad".
Go move to china then
@@straighttalkwithkyle7947 Only problem is that Marx advocated for a classless society with nearly unlimited civil liberties so…… dissing people like Stalin doesn’t do much to Marx
The best part is when Marx sits down in front of Ford as Ford had all chairs removed from factory floors to shop people from sitting at all.
I loved Karls last verse and especially his last line.
hey I haven’t watched your video for a while (since you first started reacting to ERB lul). You got so much more comfortable with the camera it’s crazy.
The one thing you can learn about Karl Marx after reading his works, is that he would absolutely hate Lenin, Stalin, Mao and virtually all communist revolutions that happened in history. Marx quite a few times made sure to point out, that a communist revolution in a country that does not have a strong economic development, and a rich class of bourgeoisie, would ultimate always end up as a dictatorship, even if it has good intentions.
Stalin was more an anti communist, but it's hard to judge someone who had to lead in such desastrouse circumstances.
The Soviet Union, after it managed to get away from the monarchic tyranny was instantly attacked by the west over and over again up to the try to just genocide all of them.
What do you think the USA or Europe would look like if this happened there?
Remember 9/11 and how batshit crazy the USA went? Now take that x100000.
Lenin himself died too early, he overall saw the Soviet Union having reached state capitalism and that as a step toward socialism, but it never went beyond that.
China and Mao is an even bigger topic. Being just a big victims in 2.WW as the soviets, with Japan going full Asian Nazi terror on them, they both instantly weer declared the main enemy of NATO (which integretad the german Nazis just fine...), so not only had to take care of their million bleeding wounds, the rebuild, the overall developement but also to arm themselves up against this directly following aggression, now nuclear.
Hunger catastrophes weer by the way a general problem in the early 20th century and before. Mao's culture revolution ended them - and if peopel would have acted MORE communictic = thinking about everyone, not just themselves, there would have been much less problems.
This! But every time I explain that Karl Marx had good ideas and communism went against everything he stood for and he would've hated those men and what they did in his name I'm called a commie. People REALLY need to actually learn their history and not talking points to win an argument.
@@margaretconnor5623 Alas, especially on the internet this will be always be the curse of ignorance.
if you think this, you haven't read any of his works.
"The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism." - Karl Marx
The biggest thing that Henry Ford claimed credit for - the 40 hour work week - wasn’t even his idea. Far more people pushed far harder for the life-work balance of “eight hours for work, eight for rest, and eight for what you will,” and paid dearly for it, like the Haymarket Eight.
The unions got those 40 hour work weeks. Not Henry.. right?
ERB is back with another banger!
Respectfully very much disagree. Marx countered every would be valid critism Ford levied against him whilst slamming him with plenty that Ford couldnt respond against, leaving Ford with just petty points. I wanna list them out c:
Ford against Marx;
1) Your ideology caused mass state sanctioned murder. Countered by Marx effectively denouncing the people who say he inspired them like Mao and Stalin. Those people used his work to manipulate people for their own gain and Marx wouldve likely hated them.
2) You're hypocritical, a capitalist bankrolled you. Countered by Marx by in a 2 ways. A) sharing money is part of communism so it isnt incompatible and B) When he needed to he was willing to sacrifice personal comforts for the cause, like his pants. Fords critism also just doesnt hold up on slight inspection. Capitalism was the ruling ideology, you need to participate in it to survive. Having to do that doesnt invalidate your critisms of the system.
Ford's petty arguments;
1) You're poor
2) You're not well groomed
3) You have dick boils, a medical condition he'd need money to treat. So basically a varient of "you're poor"
4) You're children died, also just "you're poor and lived in the 1800s"
5) You talk a lot
Compare that to all of the heavy ass slams Marx made against Ford and its pretty freaking clear to me who won c:
Karl Marx wiped the floor with Ford
I didn’t read animal Farm, but they made a movie about it and I saw that in middle school
Marks has it. The flow from Fird's destruction of his oldest son, to climate change ending with that Alschwitz line. He didn't start strong but ended on fire.
I'm pretty far left but I have very little knowledge of Marx as a person, and I care about Ford as a person even less. A lot of the matchups on ERB lately haven't had me hyped at all, so it's good to get a perspective that makes me appreciate it a little more (the best is pretty sick ngl)
Marx was a Jerk, but I think he was a witty entertaining writer and his ideas aren't as scary as the States that claimed him after his death. Important philophical parts are Dialectical Materialism, and Class Conflict.
That bar from marx about Ford being mentioned in mien kamf cuts Adeep
I kinda agree with Karl Marx on the fact Greed, not his philosophy, killed so many people, because the so-called "Communist" Dictators didn't apply shit from his teachings.
Facts. Literally LARPers.
Detroit problems go back further than that. There is a reason that Detroit was the setting for the original Robocop movie.
I kinda wish that Lloyd would have used his normal voice instead of attempting the accent... because Marx sounds more Russian than German, and it kinda takes me out of it a bit. With that said, Marx won, hands down.
Lloyd talks about the accent in the behind the scenes video. Marx came from Prussia so his accent would have not been the "standard" German accent, but would have had some Russian or Polish influences. He didn't want to use the same accent he used for either Hitler or Gorbachev so he took some online voice lessons.
Bro really got this 2 min after it uploaded
I’m far too biased to say anything other than Marx won
What I would really love if you went back after each verse and go through each bar to explain the historical context of each one. Still love your videos!
“So congrats, your legacy’s in ashes, remembered as the Fascist sympathizing cause of climate change and car crashes.”
That single line alone gave the W to Marx.
YES! So happy one of the best history reactors is here!
yeah, I'm not a fan of either of the real historicaal figures, but I was leaning towards Marx as well.
If I’m not mistaken his sibling didn’t murder his mom, his mother died giving birth to his youngest sibling
You wasted NO TIME😂😂😂
Ayo terry has a whole f****** setup now
Love this one. I was born in a socialism nation so I'm legally required to vote for Marx to win.
I really appreciated how they portrayed both battlers
Ford was a little bit kooky a little fun, but with darkness behind him. There were a lot of ad hominems. He wants to be seen to be winning the argument.
Marx was total grumpy refutation
My critique of the vid is that more time was spent on Ford as a person. While Marx was more attacked for his idea. So it wasn’t as much capitalism vs communism or Ford vs Marx. It was Ford vs Communism. The writing was good but I just wished they had a better balance
Had it actually been Ford vs Marx, i do think the battle would have had a different ending.
Hey Mr terry, great video. I miss the old template you used before multiple ERB video reactions in one!
I think Karl Marx won because of the beard and literally nothing else
karl marx absolutely destroyed ford with the last verse + "im dropping you like hitler dropped your name in mein kampf"
he also defended against the criticism much better as ford doesnt really have any excuses for anything he did whereas marx actively fought for something good, greed just led to the destruction of his idea
Marx definitely won, glad to see a reaction so quick. :)
Marx’s remark about Brazil has to do with Fordlandia
They went back and forth, but that's a Marx W.
my great-grandfather J.F. gregory worked for Mr. Ford as the superintendent of his Richmond Hill Plantation, 1920's to 1946
I don't have to like Marx to recognise that he won this one.
Why don't you like him?
I fundamentally disagree with Marxism in general. @@jackjak392
@@marshalvladimir8859 That's an assertion, I was asking for an argument sir.
I dont have time to write out a detailed critique of Marxism. You can find plenty online if you want. @@jackjak392
Hey, I was waiting for your reaction! I was like, I need an adult! LOL. Srsly, I needed the history teacher up in this joint. 👌🏽. Drop some knowledge on me! 📚🤓
In all honesty this was very very close, but I think Ford pulled out a win by a very narrow margin.
Marx spent more time having to refute his philosophy by essentially going with, "That's not real Socialism, that's not real Communism." Talking more about the flowery parts of those two ideologies while downplaying the worst parts of them. Saying sharing money is what Communism is about; except when he leaves out that money is shared out only after it is stolen from someone else. Also, the bourgeoisie, are not the rich one-percenters everybody says they are. The bourgeoisie are the middle class and he calls for their killing and general eradication in his books.
Attacking Ford on his family and Facist support was indeed smart. However talking about his roots and how his father gave him stuff to indicate he came from a privileged background is not true. Ford's roots are a lot more humble than that whereas Karl Marx is a hypocrite because he came from an upper middleclass background. Which is typical of Socialists, especially in America. They claim to be working class but they often come from well to do families and are a part of the laptop middle or upper middle-class. So points off for that.
As Ford grew into his later years he did become more paranoid. His utopia in the Amazon did go awry because he tried to institute his progressive work schedule in an industry where it would not work because Rubber harvest happens early in the morning or later towards evening. His working conditions were progressive and revolutionary for his time, he paid better and instituted the 40hr work week with better pay for his workers while in Communist countries you worked long hours in factories for small wages with food stolen from the rural communities.
The biggest nail to hammer Ford with is indeed his support of Hitler and Facism. The building of Auschwitz and the like. Though when you compare that with how Marx created a movement that inspired the creation of an ideology based on greed and envy, that led to the deaths of 100 million people, and counting, over the course of a century, I think it pales in comparison. Plus Communist Russia had killed more people in the time before Hitler took power than Hitler ever did in his entire time in power.
Hitting Marx for being unwashed and foul smelling is low hanging fruit, so no points there.
Marx attacking his controlling tendencies, how it can be argued that he drove his son to an early grave (even though his son was an avid drinker despite his father being heavily against it), strong argument. Ford hitting Marx for being happy to take Capitalist money as long as it serves his cause is a huge haymaker against Marx.
Marx mentioned that Ford's sibling killed their mother. People who see that are going to think she was murdered when actually she died in childbirth after giving birth to the 6th and final child. Both Mom and chuld did not survive. Not a dig really and very misleading.
As I said, Ford squeaks by with a win by a very narrow margin. Marx loses because he spends more time refusting his philosophy, is a hypocrite in more ways than Ford ever was, and only had Ford's later life to hit on while Ford had Marx's entire life and what he inspired to go off of.
Model T lack of style line is referring to the fact that after the initial success, every time Ford tried to bring forward a "new" design, it was always criticized by his own family and managers as being too similar to the model T. He could never seem to think of anything new
Thank you! I’m glad I messaged you on Instagram!
A nazi vs a commie.
Nice rap battle.
Ford was an anti-semite but not a Nazi. Would you like to discuss Marx's anti-Semitism?
@@ronmaximilian6953 that also means he was racist. Anti-semitism is a form of racism.
By the way, if the choice is between a nazi and a commie, I would sadly pick the commie side.
@@ronmaximilian6953 He literally received a iron cross from Hitler. Look it up.
And like in history, the commie destroyed the nazi
@@ronmaximilian6953 Hitler gave Ford the Nazi equivalent of the Presidential Medal of Honor. He was more than just an antisemite.
That last verse from Karl was so hard 🔥
Henry won because Karl was trying to share the win equally while Henry went and took it.
My First thought was "Mr. Terry's gotta watch this"
That final line, as someone who's seen plenty of older Ford trucks have their engines fail when other trucks of similar have kept on, ensured Marx's victory in my mind. That might just be my own bias against Fords though, lol.
I've watched and I could say dead even too. Ford used all of his ammo in the beginning then Karl Marx came out strong in the end but both dead even in the middle being round 2. Both came out with ad hominems and just clearly mentioning their failures and success. That last line is overhyped. It hit me but Karl Marx died younger and from "acute bronchitis." Sure medicine wasn't effective but kids mostly got acute bronchitis.
@@XxY0uMadbr0xXSalazar True, true. Ford also started repackaging disses with insulting Marx's hygiene, which made it more evident that he had been to quick on the throttle, though Marx did a similar thing, with Ford's ties to fascism, first with the Mein Kampf (I don't know how to spell it) line, then the Nazi Factory/Auschwitz line. So dead even would be about the best way to describe it, since, as Terry pointed out, they used the same - or at least similar - tactics against each other.
@@pluto-skies4323 you’re pretty smart
@@XxY0uMadbr0xXSalazar Right back at you, comrade. 👍
@@pluto-skies4323 I would say Marx's diss on Ford being named in Mein Kampf is a separate point then when he later calls him out on the Nazi factory. The first is Hitler acknowledging inspiration from Ford, which is bad enough, while the second is about Ford himself actively supporting Nazism. It escalates a similar theme but are two different arguments.
Im reminded of a comment my grandfather made on the subject: capitalists and socialists both killed people, they both had their points, and they both knew how to push people. The difference: one had mechanisms to not implode on itself, and was apart of a society that as long as it maintained a level of diligence, would keep it going. The other was born out of the part of the world where not only was it just "meant to work", but was also instituted in the area of the world where diligence was often done at either the end of a gun, or in such a manner that had a lot of uncreative people being promoted for being the biggest drone.
All of my bosses are drones.
the last verse from marx was crazy, I think he won off that
OOOOOH!!!!Marx shouted out Michigan's very own ,Marshall Mathers,man