I use a fence post level that attaches to the post providing levels in both directions continually. Makes getting the post straight and level dead easy. I just wish I could teach it how to dig the post hole!! :-)
The heart of the tree comment is valid. As a carpenter in hand picking lumber the position of the heart and end grain of each board is vital. Yellow Pine especially has a tendency to bow or twist therefore the heart is the most stable part of the tree.
I'm a 63 year young Aussie old fart, a Jack of all trades and master of none.. personally I'd put the concert level to soil & sloped away from the post , after coating the bottom of the post with creasote or old diesel oil.. minimum of 2 coats.. suppose that is just me..
We have torn out many old wood fences and replaced them with post master fences but after doing this a while we found it makes no difference. The post will rot where the concrete starts weather its at grade or below. Gravel on the bottom only helps if water can escape from the inside of the footing. Over time the post shrinks, creates a gap between then post and footing. Basically acts as a funnel. Also in areas with heavy frost it is best to leave the footing 6" to a foot below grade as the frozen dirt will help keep the footing from lilting. Love what you do Joe with breaking down these videos. Opens up for some great discussion.
Myself, too, after pulling many posts gave found depth and solid compaction best tools for good post performance. Rot will happen regardless. In fact, the more you do the more they rot. Bare post (no cement or treatments) seem to rot less but still some.
27 years ago I built about 400 feet of 6 ft tall full privacy fence. That's about 50 posts. I set them 2 feet deep and dry poured an eighty lb bag of concrete mix for each post. For posts I used 4 in landscape timbers. Caught them on sale for a dollar each at home depot. Just last year I had to replace about 8 of those posts because one had weakened enough that a strong wind broke the others on each side. Same thing happened with another section this year. The point is that after 27 years there was very little rot even in those cheap landscape timbers. The biggest problem was the wind. 6 ft privacy fence catches a lot of wind. Almost all the remaining posts are leaning 6 to 8 inches. Not broken or crooked. Just leaning. I set the new posts 30 inches deep and filled the holes to the top with wet mixed concrete this time hoping that will help.
You sound like minded. I think there is a tendency to over engineer things today. Just dug 35 holes fir for a 230 ft. X 6ft. high job on my home. Using 6x6 pressure treated and 2 bags dry mix a post. My method is half bag in hole add water and next half bag. We are in a relatively dry climate and I am sure this fence will outlast me.
I really like this video style. Joe really knows his stuff, doesn't mind sharing his expertise and he is very open minded about others techniques. A lot to like about this!
Joe, Excellent problem-solving discussion format. You got my brain cells working. Succeeded today in my 1st ever pole installed. Plumbed, leveled, and cemented hole at 36" deep. Problems overcome 1st due to some big water drainage concerns, I thought it best preparation to 1st treat the new 4x4 pole with a little mineral oil mix and follow-up with 1 coat 36" of asphalt roofing tar. 2nda placed a stone to keep the pole above the water built up at the bottom tip of the 4x4. If I may add a little lesson learned that prevented Mother Nature from getting mad at me and drowning a gate post. 1st problem that almost kicked my ass was I observed the natural slope of the ground drained water right towards the gate post hole. Hence, I appreciated your researched suggestion that others were using to raise the pole above the water. The stone left me with 30" vice 36". So far appears to support a 6' gate with ease.
Back in the day we used to put 1 incn gravel stone on the bottom of the post before the concrete pour to keep the post from making dirt contact and to help with water drainage.So you are right a paver or stone cannot hurt.Great video👍
Hey Joe! Thank you for the fantastic video reaction! It meant a lot to hear from an expert your take on my technique. I love this so much, I decided to put together my own reaction video to your reaction! Look for it next week! Thanks again.
@@ZoneOne2150 there is nothing odd about it, he can answer the questions or items that are unclear in this review, Like the location and frost layer etc,
I worked at one fence company and we pre mixed the concrete in a bucket then poured the wet mix into the hole. Then was offered more money at a different company and they poured a bit of water in the hole then dry concrete then more water on the top. Then take an 1/2” steel pipe and stab it into the concrete so it would help the water get all through the concrete. Add water if needed. I like the 2nd way because the post is set right away. No 24 hour wait. Like joe said to each their own!
Does it matter how far the box is from heart when choosing free of heart timbers? I imagine it would warp & twist more closer to heart than further? Thanks for ur info post!
The frost line in Michigan is 42” and when I installed 300’ of 6’ tall treated privacy fence about 10 years ago, I set the 10’ 4x4’s into 48” holes, on top of gravel I tossed in, and I didn’t use any concrete at all. I packed in something called “county-mix”, which is a gravel mixed with fines (stone dust) which ended up settling quite a lot but after multiple minor fills...it sort of hardened like concrete. I don’t recall what I paid to have the county-mix delivered but just last week I had to widen the driveway approach about a foot so I bought two 32 gallon garbage cans full of the county-mix for less than $20 but the problem was the weight since a yard of it weighs 3200 Lbs. Anyway the point of the mix was to keep microbe laden dirt away from the wood posts. And with concrete, I’ve experienced post shrinkage over time, which then allows the wood to get wet. Everything is still perfect, except for the huge carpenter bees boring under the rails and the somewhat protected areas of the posts covered by the pickets. I just started spraying the hovering male guard bees with Sevin attached to a garden hose, which drives ‘em away for a couple hours so I can poison the holes before the guard is either replaced or they’ve recovered. Well that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
Nice write up. (From Michigan also) similar to you, I use 21AA (crushed stone/concrete with fines). Biggest pain is digging all those holes 42"-48" 😅. Trying to remove an old rotted post that's about 4' in the ground is not fun if it's also in concrete.
Great video observation. Love your format. I do fences part-time and I do my post holes exactly like this guy except put moisture barrier where post meets the dirt.. NEVER had a problem with one leaning in 20 years. he enlightened me on the "eye" in middle of wood thing though. Thanks for sharing
Zelda Fences and Landscaping up Northern BC Canada. We have lots of different types of earth up here, lots of rock. I insist of course on PT posts, won't build a fence without them. For the bottom of the post hole I use the post itself to compact the ground, use bag concrete same way to leave an anchor at the bottom. Then use the excavated material to backfill and tamp hard on the way up. I find it saves me from having to take away the residual earth, and saves the client on concrete. I've never had a previous client call me back to fix a post. Solid method. Respect from 🇨🇦 , happy sub to your channel
You answered a comment of mine a few weeks ago. I am using 4x4-10ft posts, 3ft down, 1 foot across, plus cement mixer + using 1-2-3 mix, to make a 100ft fence and, basically, yes apart from the bracing I do the same. To brace I use to pieces of rail either side with one across, 4 screws, a ratchet clamp and a post level so I can make lots of mistakes and still have lots of room :D
Whether or not finished concrete above or below grade, it only takes a second to “dome” concrete so it slopes away from wood post, and most likely, will help prevent rot. To what extent I don’t know, but for a few seconds of time, why not?? Promote good practice. (Same thing we do with engineered rebar piers when we do more than one pour).
Gates are notorious for moving about. When I'm setting a gate post, I go real large on the post, and at least 36" on the home. Nothing worse than struggling with a gate out of position all the time.
Hey Joe, Just ran across this video. I live in an area where termites pose a threat to wooden post more than rot. So I try to avoid any ground contact. With that said, it is my understanding that it is bad practice to fully incase the post in concrete. A couple of things I do: 1) I put a piece of paver in the bottom so there is no ground contact. 2) I will put termite insecticide into the bottom of the hole to ward off the hungry ground dwellers. 3) bring to concrete just above ground level sloping it away from the post.
Typically....a good video. B&O has some good stuff. Finally, we live in an area where locust is available. It’s Gods choice for fence posts. With good drainage , a locust post milled or not will last longer that the supposedly 30 yr rating on treated lumber. I installed a locust post fence in 1992 and it’s still standing!
Kind of curious about the concrete below grade. Let's say you use this method that he used. Could you use a different material to wrap around the bottom of the post to protect it for longer? Could you use rubber mulch, or gravel, could you coat the bottom portion of the post with several layers of paint to protect it? Essentially what I am trying to ask is if there is any extra method to add to his to increase the longevity to avoid rot?
We are going to build a fence. I am going to use steel posts. In Texas it's not to cold but has been in the last few years, however, shifting is bad here. I subscribed because I need to learn more! Thanks for sharing your expertise!
I took my time, and used a shovel to get started, then water and a crow bar afterwards. Did as much as I can before it becomes difficult, then filled up the holes with water & cut through about 1/2 a foot of dirt like butter with a crow bar the next day. Repeat until you have your holes dug out in 3-5 days.
@@CharlesWhite-j4f I don't think you really understood what I did. There was no mush. Barely soft enough to dig out little by little amount of dirt with this process per day. Anyway, holes were dug, the ground was dry, and the cement was poured
@@CVMGAM True, I don't think I do, your explanation is complex. All I know is you seem to pour water in your holes. I wouldn't recommend that. That's not how they teach it at post digging college. But it works for you
Ground contact isn't as important as wet contact. If you are making a concrete-filled hole, the concrete will hold some water, preferably not constant. The water can drain or evaporate. if you have dense clay soil and you gravel fill it then concrete, you are essentially creating an area where water will pool. and remain wet. the lumber can wick that moisture up to the oxygen layer and cause rot. In this case it is better to place the post directly on the clay to prevent additional water pooling under the post.
@@joejones56 The ideal way to do it is to have rock-hard bone-dry solid walls in your hole, but that makes digging a big effort. Your post will not wobble one millimetre. Depends on how perfect a job you want, and how much effort you are willing to put into it, I suppose.
@@CharlesWhite-j4f yea I hear ya. This comment is a year old. I did my back yard fence summer of 2023. Took me about 2 weeks working on it after work and weekends alone. Still standing strong. Each hole was about 12-14” in diameter. Used a large breaker bar once it got a certain depth and cleaned out with a post shovel. I do understand what you’re saying though about the hole integrity
Hi Joe. I'm not a fence expert by any means. Shouldn't all post in areas where there is frost possibility to use sono tubes. My reasoning is that a lot of holes that are filled with concrete are not very uniform from top to bottom. Filling with concrete around the post with no sono tube leaves the sides of the hole jagged and irregular allowing the frost to heave it. When the frost gets into the ground and expands the post can easily heave upwards and stay there due to getting hung up and also dirt can accumulate under the post over several seasons of frost heave even if the bottom of the post is below the frost line. Therefore a smooth sonotube wont let this happen.
The smooth sonotube would likely make it easier for the frost line to heave the post, as the post footer would be smooth and have nothing to grip to in order to resist the push.
Any thoughts on putting tar or other protective coating on the end of the post coming in contact with the ground? I've thought this might extend the life of the wood and protect from rot.
no need. If you suspended the post in the hole with a board at whatever measurement you want,mine is typically 2 feet, then dig your hole 26". when you set the post & level it it will suspend in the hole. Then pour your concrete & it will seal the bottom of the post.
Water will enter the post above ground and soak in. How does it escape out the bottom if it is fully encapsulated? Setting fully into cement also creates a cup that traps in water.
@@JohnS-hp2xu Yes. If people want to waterproof their posts they should just use waterproof posts. 75 to 80% of the post is above ground getting soaked in the rain. Do people think the water suddenly jumps out when it soaks down to the ground level? Duh! People are so smart they're stupid.
Here from Canada... 48" deep frost line and we put a dry bag of concrete at the bottom of the hole and spray it with water then set the post then poor wet concrete to fill.
The strongest part of that post is just above the ground until it rots which may take 15-20 years or more. Most of the fence I install is stockade. I will install 2x4 and set the panel on that secured to both post. I also will run deck board 5/4 on the back side of the panel from bottom of the next post to the top of the gate post, this will keep the top of the gate post from moving. This extra step will keep your gate post strong.
I have pulled my share of old posts. And the ends in concrete exposed to the dirt rotted most of the time, BUT no where near as bad as the ground level of same post, so my experience shows it does not matter as the post at ground level will rot through first.
Pulled some 30+ years posts back out of ground. When I had set them I used no cement. Posts still good as new except at ground level that had some rot. Lost about 5% of its original volume at that line. Cedar posts with bark left on.
okay concrete hand mixed....most people mix it entirely to wet...the "strength issue" isn't an issue in setting posts, the concrete isn't under a compressive load like a foundation or driveway slab...it is taking the place of other back fill material such as aggregate...the real issue; wet mix is going to take longer to set thus longer to hold the post securely....it is easy to do 120lbs to 180lbs hand mix in a wheel barrow and with a round shovel (electric barrel mixers mix to wet and aren't easier; you still have to lift bags of concrete, need a wheelbarrow and will have another tool to clean...put in about 2 gallons of water first, pour in first bag concrete (60lbs) and mix; it will be very soupy...add second bag and mix will start to become stiffer add about another 1/2 gallon water...mix until no dry cement visible....add another 1/2 gallon water and mix then add third bag....begin mixing and slowly add water, mixing throughly until you achieve about a 5" slump (mix will retain shape in shovel)... (once you're used to this, it takes about 10 mins to do)... with post in hole at proper location and plumb (use string lines and tape measure ,always measure from start/corner post) shovel cement around post equally, "rod" concrete, tap post just above concrete to get "cream" to set around post... finish top so it slopes away from post... the stiff concrete will hold the post plumb and set enough in 2 hours to allow constructing fence...if you want to keep bottom of post off the dirt; after the first couple shovels raise the post up and down a few times the concrete will flow under it
Atleast there’s skill and knowledge involved. What about all the vids showing people chew on crunchy stuff and weird colors and all that. That’s what I call an odd genre, nothing more than time consumption while not learning a drop of anything to improve your life
Not really. It's basically a fact check for instructional videos. More of this is needed because after getting into the trades and performing a broader scope of work I've learned there's A LOT of bad info. Either people that aren't good giving advice or people who maybe read things without actually performing the work creating click bait etc. This guy's content is pretty awesome and definitely needed
The warping makes a lot of sense. The center it will dry evenly. The center also called a plith can also crack all the way through following the center of the growth. So can go either way.
I make the bottom of the holes wider than the top to keep the frost from heaving the concrete.(bell shaped 🔔. Also when I set the post I lift the post up a few inches after a few feet of concrete is in the hole to get concrete under the post. This keeps the bottom of the post from rotting and no need for rocks or bricks in the hole.
That's all nice if you have days messing around,center your string,dig the holes,your string tells you if your off,push string over,set corners dry,now set your lines,make up some slump to crown post,come back finish it off,thousands of dry sets,if your in very acitic soil you can dip them,got to keep the crew making their money.
I install a cross t at 24 " from bottom of post this sets all post at 6' . Concrete will be under post. Hole would be 29 " deep . I hav switched to gravel on common posts concrete at gates .
Nicely done. My problem is I need to move a post about 3 ft. so I can Install a double gate. I've already removed the post with concrete attached, all in good shape. Should I just dig a bigger hole and add more concrete?
I pick out 4x4s that are slightly bowed that way I can position them where the bow is in-line with the fence. alternate bow to the left, then bow to the right. This seems to stabilize them. the perfectly straight ones can bow after install, and its a 50% chance they bow in or out, leaving you with a wavy fence.
@@jabtothehead9942 Oh for sure. In one of my first construction jobs, the old guy said damn-it boy that is plumb. And I was, what? What are you talking about? That was 1988. You only have to tell me something one time.
Why not use gravel for setting the post instead of concrete? A hole filled with gravel around a post is very solid and does not allow lateral movement.
Joe i like your optimism as the paint was drying....dam. Nice to see you picking up on the tips and tricks. The couple of posts that i have seen with rot where right at groung level in aerobic zone. Was thinking of leaving concrete high so no soil contact but as you mentioned people mentioned rot still occurs. Wonder if some type of flashing would work better 2" above aerobic zone ? I have seen some timber that was laying on some flat rocks that looked to be really old no rot?
I have to tell everyone the secret of the stones. The bottom of your hole is always concave. Rocks make it easy to plum because they are easy to tamp and level. It has nothing to do with drainage. If you want that pole to last; keep it for a year to dry it. Now that its dry drill a hole through the base; insert rebar so that it sticks out evenly. Apply tar to rebar & post. Stain everything above ground.
The first thing I noticed was the guy did not add any gravel to the bottom of the hole. I would also use an asphalt emulsion and dip the post in it or paint it on the 2 foot that is going in the hole. I would also stain that post to keep water from damaging it. Yes it costs a little more but, will last longer.
same here. coated the bottom that was in the concrete and about 4" past. Painting the fence, so its rubber/emulsion coated and then painted to cover that....
8" round hole is more than enough for a 4x4 post. Paver/ brick at the bottom, backfill with 411 Stone to about 4 inches from the top, soil the rest of the way, get the pickets about an inch and a half off the ground, and you are good to go. I've done plenty like this, and not have had any issues as a result. Picking out the perfect wood is not practical when you're getting a load of 50 post delivered. Up in my area, we have to dig down 38", but only in certain cities. Posts end up about 5'6" out of the ground, and 2'6" in.
Just set a half dozen 4x4 posts directly in the ground with no concrete. Dug 30 inch deep holes, added 6" of gravel, then packed alternating layers of gravel and clay around each post. The way they make pressure treated now I expect the posts to be rotted in
I used a treated heart 4x4 on a wood partition and it warped within 4 months. The other heart 4x4 on the other end of the partition did not warp. Everything was stained just a day after installation too.
@@JoeEverest I'll eventually fix it and when I do I'm going to investigate it. 👍 Perhaps it's not 100% warp free when we use heart 4x4. The boards were pretty dry too when installed. I just remembered I installed a 4x4 treated and it was a heart board for my bird feeders and it's been about 12 years now and it's straight as an arrow still. Lol
When I install 25’ - 30’ vertical ham radio antennas in the ground that have a lot of wind load, I will typically dig about a 6”-8” hole for a 1.25”-2” aluminum mast that is about 2.5’-3.5’ deep. I put the mast into the hole that has 6” of gravel at the bottom. I fill in around the mast with 3/8”-1/2” gravel and tamp it down as I fill in around the mast. This provides an extremely strong foundation without the use of concrete. With this being said, the same principle could be used with wooden or galvanized fence posts. And the mast or fence post can be easily removed if necessary. On top of this you don’t need to wait for the concrete to set.
HI ..Thanks to B&O Craftsman for the original video and Joe Everest for the great review and comment. I"m in the midst of replacing posts and fence that was installed by a contractor 5 years ago...yes 5 years ago. (My neighbour hired him) I believe the contractor owned a small mill and milled all the wood himself (Douglas Fir/ BC Canada) and did not pressure treat or oil them up at all. The soil here is wet heavy clay....most all of the rot in the 5" Sq posts that I'm replacing was at ground level to about a foot or so into the soil. The bottoms of the posts are surprisingly solid. SO, I've come here to get advice. What I'm thinking is, I"ve dug the post holes down between 36-46" (we have deep frost here in Northern Canada) and then filling around the posts with a mix of gravelly clay, i.e. gravel to encourage drainage and enough clay that it will pack solidly. Then stopping short of the ground level, and filling that part with concrete ("Post Haste") with a pyramid shape to drain water away from the posts. Again this is northern British Columbia Canada...we get a lot of rain, snow and deep frost. Oh...and I absolutely hate having to spend time rebuilding fence...when I should be FISHING!!!! Any suggestions, experience and/or advice greatly appreciated! Thanks!
My approach is to put a large concrete mowing strip along the length of the fence. Easier care plus no soil around the post. Thanks for another great video Joe.
This is counterproductive to combating frost upheaval. But I've never seen a post lift from frost forces although codes talk about it often. Cement set below ground level and covered with soil reduces this. Rob Peter to pay Paul, I guess.
Right or wrong, I set posts and wrapped the bottom up 6 inches above ground level with tyvek I picked up on construction site trash pile. I thought if it's good enough for windows, couldn't hurt here?
In my experience installing by myself is to attach a stabilizing board front back n side to side just to ensure what I need it to do... And I just removed 363' of old post b split rail fencing and replace all new post b Kentucky Board 16' ers. Today. Always a million ways to skin a cat but what's gonna work for said job... Dude didn't do a bad job but one can tell he Is a fyi kinda guy.
Neighbor had a contractor put up a fence. I had already started mine and he said he likes to use 16' runners instead of 8'.so you're tying into three post instead of two. After I set my post dead center on 8'.i find that 2x4x16 are actually over 16' and had trim each one to hit center of my 4x4s. Flm I just want to go back to being a millwrght where everything is true to dimensions.not to mention had bad the wood is warped.
Drain the water stop the rot. Concrete above the ground, 2.5 feet of post in the ground, 6 in gravel under the post. 4 (4 inch) lag bolts, one on each side in the concrete. I have fence posts in the ground 16 years with no rot. Everyone in my neighborhood has replaced their fence post twice. I have replaced the pickets once, they weather alot.
Has anyone ever tried a 6 inch metal band at the rot point of the posts that is 3 inch above and below the dirt grade to prolong the life of the posts at that section?
I had 2 friends and the idiot ones mom needed a fence so they get beer and get started from opposite ends and when they got to the middle they didnt fit. They called it the fence that budweiser and coors built.
water, trimmers, and wet vegetation up next to the post should be a major contributing factor to rot. I beat the heck out of my posts with trimmer wire. I have noticed post rot quicker where water flows over the posts. If one doesn't trim around the post water that collects on vegetation will contribute to quicker rot. That is my best guess and I am sticking to it.
I saw a tip somewhere to cut 2 liter bottles to wrap around the bottom of fence posts and young trees to protect from trimmer line. Seemed like a good idea!
I tar the bottom of the post and then roll a mixture of 50% used motor oil and 50% diesel fuel. Let it dry well. My dad did it that way when I was just a young boy (8) and those post are still in great shape today and I am 60 y/o now. Plus I like color it makes them. The trick is to make sure it is a dry pressure treated post, not the wet wet one you get from the store.
joe, would it help to wrap the bottom of the post (in this case 2 feet that goes into the ground) with a product like grace ice shield that roofers use for underlayment, it would be like a thin rubber coating between the post and the concrete and dirt
@@JoeEverest i got hooked on your vidoes and did finally see that one, i will be building a fence and gate so thanks for all of the advice. maybe i will try the video thing and you can tell me where i went wrong :)
If you need to set up quickly just buy a bag of lime and pour your concrete into the hole then pour about 1/4 cup in the hole and stir it around then level the post again and backfill with dirt to cover the concrete and it will be hard in less than 30 min.
I live in Cincinnati Ohio. I just removed an old deck that I was told by a neighbor was built in the late 80s. The posts were rotted and the deck was in very sad condition. All the rotted posts were worst just below ground level and broke off there. The ones I got out whole looked good on the end and none were set on stone. Adding stone is probably an unnecessary step.
Seems to me a well driven post is best. Deep and tight. I've pulled t-posts that were 80 years old and in mint shape with only a little rust. Bare cedar posts 30+ year with only rot ring at ground level but perfect below that. 4x4 treated in good shape except at ground level. Just figure every post has some natural life span and accept it. Everything deteriorates right at the ground and all that gravel, treating, pads, cement, coatings is just time and money. Plant it deep, pack it tight. Brace it if it has horizontal loads. My 2 cents.
Since fungus must have water, food (your post), and oxygen to grow, and since the amount of oxygen below about 6"-8", especially in soil with a lot of clay, is pretty negligible, what do you think about a moisture barrier system with a thick mastic layer coating on the post covered by a thick heat shrink membrane from about 9"-12" below grade to 2"-3" above grade as a moisture barrier for the portion where there is oxygen available. Would such a thing help avoid rot in the aerobic zone of the soil?
The heart of oak is more fibrous and seems to be a very hard when dried..tip sounds legit..but makes sence as the heart dries and fibers shrink ..if the heart/ middle of tree was off to the side it could potentially warp it it that direction
@@JoeEverest a friend of mine said to use used motor oil and kerosene or diesel fuel ad brush it on at the base and a few inches above, he said the ranchers in Texas do this to there wire fence posts
I have a 10” auger that u just have to slide a 2’ pole thru and turn it by hand. It’s perfect for dirt without a bunch of roots or trash. With a sharp shooter and that auger I can dig almost any post hole and a few. Mins. And I don’t need to rent an auger or the other related expense.
I usually like to add a kicker or 2 to brace it for leveling a lot easier if u don’t have a helper. Rocks or stone are a great idea innthe bottom of the hole.
Concrete cures, not drys. Also I coat the post at the ground area with several coats of sealer to help prevent rot. Just about a one foot band around the post.
“You can never check the plumb of a post to many times” you are absolutely right on that
I appreciate you watching, thanks!
I use a fence post level that attaches to the post providing levels in both directions continually. Makes getting the post straight and level dead easy. I just wish I could teach it how to dig the post hole!! :-)
The heart of the tree comment is valid. As a carpenter in hand picking lumber the position of the heart and end grain of each board is vital. Yellow Pine especially has a tendency to bow or twist therefore the heart is the most stable part of the tree.
I'm a 63 year young Aussie old fart, a Jack of all trades and master of none.. personally I'd put the concert level to soil & sloped away from the post , after coating the bottom of the post with creasote or old diesel oil.. minimum of 2 coats.. suppose that is just me..
We have torn out many old wood fences and replaced them with post master fences but after doing this a while we found it makes no difference. The post will rot where the concrete starts weather its at grade or below. Gravel on the bottom only helps if water can escape from the inside of the footing. Over time the post shrinks, creates a gap between then post and footing. Basically acts as a funnel. Also in areas with heavy frost it is best to leave the footing 6" to a foot below grade as the frozen dirt will help keep the footing from lilting. Love what you do Joe with breaking down these videos. Opens up for some great discussion.
Thanks Anthony, I appreciate you sharing your experience!
Myself, too, after pulling many posts gave found depth and solid compaction best tools for good post performance. Rot will happen regardless. In fact, the more you do the more they rot. Bare post (no cement or treatments) seem to rot less but still some.
27 years ago I built about 400 feet of 6 ft tall full privacy fence. That's about 50 posts. I set them 2 feet deep and dry poured an eighty lb bag of concrete mix for each post. For posts I used 4 in landscape timbers. Caught them on sale for a dollar each at home depot. Just last year I had to replace about 8 of those posts because one had weakened enough that a strong wind broke the others on each side. Same thing happened with another section this year. The point is that after 27 years there was very little rot even in those cheap landscape timbers. The biggest problem was the wind. 6 ft privacy fence catches a lot of wind. Almost all the remaining posts are leaning 6 to 8 inches. Not broken or crooked. Just leaning. I set the new posts 30 inches deep and filled the holes to the top with wet mixed concrete this time hoping that will help.
You sound like minded. I think there is a tendency to over engineer things today.
Just dug 35 holes fir for a 230 ft. X 6ft. high job on my home. Using 6x6 pressure treated and 2 bags dry mix a post. My method is half bag in hole add water and next half bag. We are in a relatively dry climate and I am sure this fence will outlast me.
we've all shaved several holes in our days. great vid brother. i learn something new every time
I really like this video style. Joe really knows his stuff, doesn't mind sharing his expertise and he is very open minded about others techniques. A lot to like about this!
Much appreciated! Thanks for watching and weighing in!
Joe you have the right words to appreciate, on other way of doing the job. I enjoy the insight on the weakness in the schemes that fencing have.
Joe, Excellent problem-solving discussion format. You got my brain cells working. Succeeded today in my 1st ever pole installed. Plumbed, leveled, and cemented hole at 36" deep. Problems overcome 1st due to some big water drainage concerns, I thought it best preparation to 1st treat the new 4x4 pole with a little mineral oil mix and follow-up with 1 coat 36" of asphalt roofing tar. 2nda placed a stone to keep the pole above the water built up at the bottom tip of the 4x4. If I may add a little lesson learned that prevented Mother Nature from getting mad at me and drowning a gate post. 1st problem that almost kicked my ass was I observed the natural slope of the ground drained water right towards the gate post hole. Hence, I appreciated your researched suggestion that others were using to raise the pole above the water. The stone left me with 30" vice 36". So far appears to support a 6' gate with ease.
His right about the heart, I've been in the sawmill busy for over a decade and I'm classified as an expert in my field.
Back in the day we used to put 1 incn gravel stone on the bottom of the post before the concrete pour to keep the post from making dirt contact and to help with water drainage.So you are right a paver or stone cannot hurt.Great video👍
Hey Joe! Thank you for the fantastic video reaction! It meant a lot to hear from an expert your take on my technique. I love this so much, I decided to put together my own reaction video to your reaction! Look for it next week! Thanks again.
That’s kind of odd and unnecessary lol
@@ZoneOne2150 there is nothing odd about it, he can answer the questions or items that are unclear in this review, Like the location and frost layer etc,
I think that is an awesome idea!
I worked at one fence company and we pre mixed the concrete in a bucket then poured the wet mix into the hole. Then was offered more money at a different company and they poured a bit of water in the hole then dry concrete then more water on the top. Then take an 1/2” steel pipe and stab it into the concrete so it would help the water get all through the concrete. Add water if needed.
I like the 2nd way because the post is set right away. No 24 hour wait.
Like joe said to each their own!
I'm a retired wooden boatbuilder of 45 yrs, boxed heart timbers and post are always the most stable when it comes to warping and twisting.
Does it matter how far the box is from heart when choosing free of heart timbers? I imagine it would warp & twist more closer to heart than further? Thanks for ur info post!
What I found to be the best is crushed rock, bottom and around no rot
I appreciate you watching and sharing your experience!
The frost line in Michigan is 42” and when I installed 300’ of 6’ tall treated privacy fence about 10 years ago, I set the 10’ 4x4’s into 48” holes, on top of gravel I tossed in, and I didn’t use any concrete at all. I packed in something called “county-mix”, which is a gravel mixed with fines (stone dust) which ended up settling quite a lot but after multiple minor fills...it sort of hardened like concrete.
I don’t recall what I paid to have the county-mix delivered but just last week I had to widen the driveway approach about a foot so I bought two 32 gallon garbage cans full of the county-mix for less than $20 but the problem was the weight since a yard of it weighs 3200 Lbs. Anyway the point of the mix was to keep microbe laden dirt away from the wood posts. And with concrete, I’ve experienced post shrinkage over time, which then allows the wood to get wet.
Everything is still perfect, except for the huge carpenter bees boring under the rails and the somewhat protected areas of the posts covered by the pickets. I just started spraying the hovering male guard bees with Sevin attached to a garden hose, which drives ‘em away for a couple hours so I can poison the holes before the guard is either replaced or they’ve recovered. Well that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
Nice write up. (From Michigan also) similar to you, I use 21AA (crushed stone/concrete with fines). Biggest pain is digging all those holes 42"-48" 😅. Trying to remove an old rotted post that's about 4' in the ground is not fun if it's also in concrete.
Great video observation. Love your format. I do fences part-time and I do my post holes exactly like this guy except put moisture barrier where post meets the dirt.. NEVER had a problem with one leaning in 20 years.
he enlightened me on the "eye" in middle of wood thing though. Thanks for sharing
Zelda Fences and Landscaping up Northern BC Canada. We have lots of different types of earth up here, lots of rock. I insist of course on PT posts, won't build a fence without them. For the bottom of the post hole I use the post itself to compact the ground, use bag concrete same way to leave an anchor at the bottom. Then use the excavated material to backfill and tamp hard on the way up. I find it saves me from having to take away the residual earth, and saves the client on concrete. I've never had a previous client call me back to fix a post. Solid method. Respect from 🇨🇦 , happy sub to your channel
For any outdoor post set in concrete, I like the the top layer of cement to slope away from the post to drain away from post and keep wood drier.
Great process, I appreciate you sharing it with us!
Good luck to this reviewer. I like his review style and positive mindset. Good show sir !!
Thanks William!
I would also suggest using the rot bloc material at the bottom of the fence post to block moisture
i allways level the posts with 2-3-4 before cement , works a treat .. and saves me the water compas checking time after time
You answered a comment of mine a few weeks ago. I am using 4x4-10ft posts, 3ft down, 1 foot across, plus cement mixer + using 1-2-3 mix, to make a 100ft fence and, basically, yes apart from the bracing I do the same.
To brace I use to pieces of rail either side with one across, 4 screws, a ratchet clamp and a post level so I can make lots of mistakes and still have lots of room :D
Whether or not finished concrete above or below grade, it only takes a second to “dome” concrete so it slopes away from wood post, and most likely, will help prevent rot. To what extent I don’t know, but for a few seconds of time, why not?? Promote good practice. (Same thing we do with engineered rebar piers when we do more than one pour).
Gates are notorious for moving about. When I'm setting a gate post, I go real large on the post, and at least 36" on the home. Nothing worse than struggling with a gate out of position all the time.
Agreed, sounds like a solid process!
your right about the rotting of the post. I've only seen them rot flush or a couple inches down.
Hey Joe, Just ran across this video. I live in an area where termites pose a threat to wooden post more than rot. So I try to avoid any ground contact. With that said, it is my understanding that it is bad practice to fully incase the post in concrete. A couple of things I do: 1) I put a piece of paver in the bottom so there is no ground contact. 2) I will put termite insecticide into the bottom of the hole to ward off the hungry ground dwellers. 3) bring to concrete just above ground level sloping it away from the post.
Sounds like a solid process, I appreciate you sharing it!
I like the color pattern in your background with the different color stains. Gonna try that in my new cabin!~
It was actually pretty easy to install, we picked it up here: restorativewoodproducts.com/collections/rewoodd-reclaimed-wood-panels
Typically....a good video. B&O has some good stuff. Finally, we live in an area where locust is available. It’s Gods choice for fence posts. With good drainage , a locust post milled or not will last longer that the supposedly 30 yr rating on treated lumber. I installed a locust post fence in 1992 and it’s still standing!
Great ideas and the review with the contractor was excellent, Thanks.
Very welcome, always happy to help!
Kind of curious about the concrete below grade. Let's say you use this method that he used. Could you use a different material to wrap around the bottom of the post to protect it for longer?
Could you use rubber mulch, or gravel, could you coat the bottom portion of the post with several layers of paint to protect it? Essentially what I am trying to ask is if there is any extra method to add to his to increase the longevity to avoid rot?
Absolutely, there’s a product called PostSaver that is made just for this purpose!
I appreciate the video & information. I learn something new every time.
We are going to build a fence. I am going to use steel posts. In Texas it's not to cold but has been in the last few years, however, shifting is bad here. I subscribed because I need to learn more! Thanks for sharing your expertise!
I took my time, and used a shovel to get started, then water and a crow bar afterwards. Did as much as I can before it becomes difficult, then filled up the holes with water & cut through about 1/2 a foot of dirt like butter with a crow bar the next day. Repeat until you have your holes dug out in 3-5 days.
That will weaken the walls of you hole. Better to have them dry and solid, not mushy
@@CharlesWhite-j4f I don't think you really understood what I did. There was no mush. Barely soft enough to dig out little by little amount of dirt with this process per day. Anyway, holes were dug, the ground was dry, and the cement was poured
@@CVMGAM True, I don't think I do, your explanation is complex. All I know is you seem to pour water in your holes. I wouldn't recommend that. That's not how they teach it at post digging college. But it works for you
@@CharlesWhite-j4f I've been know to do many unconventional things over the years. I've been called a MacGruber many a times.
Ground contact isn't as important as wet contact. If you are making a concrete-filled hole, the concrete will hold some water, preferably not constant. The water can drain or evaporate. if you have dense clay soil and you gravel fill it then concrete, you are essentially creating an area where water will pool. and remain wet. the lumber can wick that moisture up to the oxygen layer and cause rot. In this case it is better to place the post directly on the clay to prevent additional water pooling under the post.
Don’t know if this is not advised .. but when using a post hole digger, after getting the hole started, I sprayed with water to soften the dirt ..
Weakens walls of your hole. Imagine sticking a straw into mashed potato, then wobble it. Walls need to be dry and solid
@@CharlesWhite-j4f I understand your thought process , but I dug out all of the mashed potato prior to post placement and cement
@@joejones56 The ideal way to do it is to have rock-hard bone-dry solid walls in your hole, but that makes digging a big effort. Your post will not wobble one millimetre. Depends on how perfect a job you want, and how much effort you are willing to put into it, I suppose.
@@CharlesWhite-j4f yea I hear ya. This comment is a year old. I did my back yard fence summer of 2023. Took me about 2 weeks working on it after work and weekends alone. Still standing strong. Each hole was about 12-14” in diameter. Used a large breaker bar once it got a certain depth and cleaned out with a post shovel. I do understand what you’re saying though about the hole integrity
@@joejones56 Still standing strong, that's all that matters, however it's done👍
Great video.
Less contact with the soil offers some protection from rot & termites....
Hi Joe. I'm not a fence expert by any means. Shouldn't all post in areas where there is frost possibility to use sono tubes. My reasoning is that a lot of holes that are filled with concrete are not very uniform from top to bottom. Filling with concrete around the post with no sono tube leaves the sides of the hole jagged and irregular allowing the frost to heave it. When the frost gets into the ground and expands the post can easily heave upwards and stay there due to getting hung up and also dirt can accumulate under the post over several seasons of frost heave even if the bottom of the post is below the frost line. Therefore a smooth sonotube wont let this happen.
The smooth sonotube would likely make it easier for the frost line to heave the post, as the post footer would be smooth and have nothing to grip to in order to resist the push.
With the treated lumber we have now it’s best to coat the what’s in the ground it dose last as long as bed
Agreed, there’s actually a product called PostSaver that’s made for this exact purpose!
Any thoughts on putting tar or other protective coating on the end of the post coming in contact with the ground? I've thought this might extend the life of the wood and protect from rot.
no need. If you suspended the post in the hole with a board at whatever measurement you want,mine is typically 2 feet, then dig your hole 26". when you set the post & level it it will suspend in the hole. Then pour your concrete & it will seal the bottom of the post.
Water will enter the post above ground and soak in. How does it escape out the bottom if it is fully encapsulated? Setting fully into cement also creates a cup that traps in water.
Concrete is also porous and will still allow moisture to get to your post.
@@JohnS-hp2xu Yes. If people want to waterproof their posts they should just use waterproof posts. 75 to 80% of the post is above ground getting soaked in the rain. Do people think the water suddenly jumps out when it soaks down to the ground level? Duh! People are so smart they're stupid.
I used flex seal at the base. We'll see how that turns out I guess lol
Here from Canada... 48" deep frost line and we put a dry bag of concrete at the bottom of the hole and spray it with water then set the post then poor wet concrete to fill.
How deep you dig? 10 foot posts? I’m in similar climate and building a fence soon.
I’ve heard using roofing tar to coat the post up to grade will help prevent rot where you backfill.
That could work, but I’d rather use a purpose-designed product like PostSaver.
The strongest part of that post is just above the ground until it rots which may take 15-20 years or more. Most of the fence I install is stockade. I will install 2x4 and set the panel on that secured to both post. I also will run deck board 5/4 on the back side of the panel from bottom of the next post to the top of the gate post, this will keep the top of the gate post from moving. This extra step will keep your gate post strong.
I have pulled my share of old posts. And the ends in concrete exposed to the dirt rotted most of the time, BUT no where near as bad as the ground level of same post, so my experience shows it does not matter as the post at ground level will rot through first.
Pulled some 30+ years posts back out of ground. When I had set them I used no cement. Posts still good as new except at ground level that had some rot. Lost about 5% of its original volume at that line. Cedar posts with bark left on.
okay concrete hand mixed....most people mix it entirely to wet...the "strength issue" isn't an issue in setting posts, the concrete isn't
under a compressive load like a foundation or driveway slab...it is taking the place of other back fill material such as aggregate...the real issue; wet mix is going to take longer to set thus longer to hold the post securely....it is easy to do 120lbs to 180lbs hand mix in a wheel barrow and with a round shovel (electric barrel mixers mix to wet and aren't easier; you still have to lift bags of concrete, need a wheelbarrow and will have another tool to clean...put in about 2 gallons of water first, pour in first bag concrete (60lbs) and mix; it will be very soupy...add second bag and mix will start to become stiffer add about another 1/2 gallon water...mix until no dry cement visible....add another 1/2 gallon water and mix then add third bag....begin mixing and slowly add water, mixing throughly until you achieve about a 5" slump (mix will retain shape in shovel)... (once you're used to this, it takes about 10 mins to do)... with post in hole at proper location and plumb (use string lines and tape measure ,always measure from start/corner post) shovel cement around post equally, "rod" concrete, tap post just above concrete to get "cream" to set around post... finish top so it slopes away from post... the stiff concrete will hold the post plumb and set enough in 2 hours to allow constructing fence...if you want to keep bottom of post off the dirt; after the first couple shovels raise the post up and down a few times the concrete will flow under it
This had gotta be one of the weirdest genres on RUclips 😂 a guy watching a guy dig a hole and "react" to it.. just wow.
True. And just think we’re watching a guy watch a guy dig a hole. Ha ha.
Oh, dear, and now I'm reading comments written by a guy who watched a guy, watch a guy dig a hole...
Atleast there’s skill and knowledge involved. What about all the vids showing people chew on crunchy stuff and weird colors and all that. That’s what I call an odd genre, nothing more than time consumption while not learning a drop of anything to improve your life
Not really. It's basically a fact check for instructional videos. More of this is needed because after getting into the trades and performing a broader scope of work I've learned there's A LOT of bad info. Either people that aren't good giving advice or people who maybe read things without actually performing the work creating click bait etc. This guy's content is pretty awesome and definitely needed
We are learning how to. Install a fence bra. U won’t survive the apocalypse
The warping makes a lot of sense. The center it will dry evenly. The center also called a plith can also crack all the way through following the center of the growth. So can go either way.
Adding to this, in wood working, you typically try to avoid the pith as it can cause more warping.
I make the bottom of the holes wider than the top to keep the frost from heaving the concrete.(bell shaped 🔔. Also when I set the post I lift the post up a few inches after a few feet of concrete is in the hole to get concrete under the post. This keeps the bottom of the post from rotting and no need for rocks or bricks in the hole.
Sounds like a really solid process, I appreciate you sharing it!
That's all nice if you have days messing around,center your string,dig the holes,your string tells you if your off,push string over,set corners dry,now set your lines,make up some slump to crown post,come back finish it off,thousands of dry sets,if your in very acitic soil you can dip them,got to keep the crew making their money.
I've been looking at Bitumen/tar post wraps for the aerobic zone; you heat the wrap so it becomes soft and sticky, sealing the wood.
Agreed, there’s a product called PostSaver that seems to accomplish this!
This is a great comparison video
Thanks Gerard, I appreciate you watching!
I install a cross t at 24 " from bottom of post this sets all post at 6' . Concrete will be under post. Hole would be 29 " deep . I hav switched to gravel on common posts concrete at gates .
Nicely done.
My problem is I need to move a post about 3 ft. so I can Install a double gate. I've already removed the post with concrete attached, all in good shape. Should I just dig a bigger hole and add more concrete?
I pick out 4x4s that are slightly bowed that way I can position them where the bow is in-line with the fence. alternate bow to the left, then bow to the right. This seems to stabilize them. the perfectly straight ones can bow after install, and its a 50% chance they bow in or out, leaving you with a wavy fence.
7:49 Plumb. It's plumb. Amazing.
I'm sure there's only a hand full of people in the world that know the difference between plumb, level and square...
@@jabtothehead9942 Oh for sure. In one of my first construction jobs, the old guy said damn-it boy that is plumb. And I was, what? What are you talking about? That was 1988. You only have to tell me something one time.
Why not use gravel for setting the post instead of concrete? A hole filled with gravel around a post is very solid and does not allow lateral movement.
Not ideal for all soil types
Joe i like your optimism as the paint was drying....dam. Nice to see you picking up on the tips and tricks. The couple of posts that i have seen with rot where right at groung level in aerobic zone. Was thinking of leaving concrete high so no soil contact but as you mentioned people mentioned rot still occurs. Wonder if some type of flashing would work better 2" above aerobic zone ? I have seen some timber that was laying on some flat rocks that looked to be really old no rot?
I have to tell everyone the secret of the stones.
The bottom of your hole is always concave.
Rocks make it easy to plum because they are easy to tamp and level.
It has nothing to do with drainage.
If you want that pole to last; keep it for a year to dry it.
Now that its dry drill a hole through the base; insert rebar so that it sticks out evenly.
Apply tar to rebar & post.
Stain everything above ground.
I appreciate you watching and sharing your experience!
“Holes” are great!!!
I see that more fence guy use integrity steel post .What you think about them?
The first thing I noticed was the guy did not add any gravel to the bottom of the hole. I would also use an asphalt emulsion and dip the post in it or paint it on the 2 foot that is going in the hole. I would also stain that post to keep water from damaging it. Yes it costs a little more but, will last longer.
I do see the stones and solid stone that he added. My bad. Sorry.
same here. coated the bottom that was in the concrete and about 4" past. Painting the fence, so its rubber/emulsion coated and then painted to cover that....
8" round hole is more than enough for a 4x4 post. Paver/ brick at the bottom, backfill with 411 Stone to about 4 inches from the top, soil the rest of the way, get the pickets about an inch and a half off the ground, and you are good to go. I've done plenty like this, and not have had any issues as a result. Picking out the perfect wood is not practical when you're getting a load of 50 post delivered. Up in my area, we have to dig down 38", but only in certain cities. Posts end up about 5'6" out of the ground, and 2'6" in.
Sounds like a great process, I appreciate you sharing it!
Just set a half dozen 4x4 posts directly in the ground with no concrete. Dug 30 inch deep holes, added 6" of gravel, then packed alternating layers of gravel and clay around each post. The way they make pressure treated now I expect the posts to be rotted in
I used a treated heart 4x4 on a wood partition and it warped within 4 months. The other heart 4x4 on the other end of the partition did not warp. Everything was stained just a day after installation too.
Interesting, I wonder what the difference was?
@@JoeEverest I'll eventually fix it and when I do I'm going to investigate it. 👍 Perhaps it's not 100% warp free when we use heart 4x4. The boards were pretty dry too when installed.
I just remembered I installed a 4x4 treated and it was a heart board for my bird feeders and it's been about 12 years now and it's straight as an arrow still. Lol
What if you paint or add some extra layer of protection at the bottom of the post?
Here in Oregon, our frost line is 18 inches, so we dig fence posts 24 inches.
What do you think about purchasing the harbor freight gas powered auger? is it good enough to get the job done?
I had to pull two posts back out after curing because I did not use string line. They were 6 inches off.
When I install 25’ - 30’ vertical ham radio antennas in the ground that have a lot of wind load, I will typically dig about a 6”-8” hole for a 1.25”-2” aluminum mast that is about 2.5’-3.5’ deep. I put the mast into the hole that has 6” of gravel at the bottom. I fill in around the mast with 3/8”-1/2” gravel and tamp it down as I fill in around the mast. This provides an extremely strong foundation without the use of concrete.
With this being said, the same principle could be used with wooden or galvanized fence posts. And the mast or fence post can be easily removed if necessary. On top of this you don’t need to wait for the concrete to set.
Great process, I appreciate you sharing it!
Just found your channel, great videos!
Thanks for watching, good to have you!
HI ..Thanks to B&O Craftsman for the original video and Joe Everest for the great review and comment. I"m in the midst of replacing posts and fence that was installed by a contractor 5 years ago...yes 5 years ago. (My neighbour hired him)
I believe the contractor owned a small mill and milled all the wood himself (Douglas Fir/ BC Canada) and did not pressure treat or oil them up at all. The soil here is wet heavy clay....most all of the rot in the 5" Sq posts that I'm replacing was at ground level to about a foot or so into the soil. The bottoms of the posts are surprisingly solid.
SO, I've come here to get advice. What I'm thinking is, I"ve dug the post holes down between 36-46" (we have deep frost here in Northern Canada) and then filling around the posts with a mix of gravelly clay, i.e. gravel to encourage drainage and enough clay that it will pack solidly. Then stopping short of the ground level, and filling that part with concrete ("Post Haste") with a pyramid shape to drain water away from the posts. Again this is northern British Columbia Canada...we get a lot of rain, snow and deep frost. Oh...and I absolutely hate having to spend time rebuilding fence...when I should be FISHING!!!!
Any suggestions, experience and/or advice greatly appreciated! Thanks!
how about adding rebars in the post? like drilling couple rebars at the bottom?
Possibly!
In Arizona, there are termites that live in the ground. If the bottom of your post is exposed to the earth....well you know. 😂
What about coating the post that will have any contact with the ground or even the concrete with a layer of tar? Would that help with preventing rot?
I would think so, a product like post saver would likely prolong the life!
I don’t know a lot about fences, but this seems like a lot of work. Gotta be a better way.
"guys and gals". I appreciate that.
Does anyone add wood preservative to the end grain (both top and bottom) to prevent wicking?
My approach is to put a large concrete mowing strip along the length of the fence. Easier care plus no soil around the post. Thanks for another great video Joe.
This is counterproductive to combating frost upheaval. But I've never seen a post lift from frost forces although codes talk about it often.
Cement set below ground level and covered with soil reduces this. Rob Peter to pay Paul, I guess.
@@finallyfriday. We don't get temperatures cold enough for that to ever be a problem.
Right or wrong, I set posts and wrapped the bottom up 6 inches above ground level with tyvek I picked up on construction site trash pile. I thought if it's good enough for windows, couldn't hurt here?
Definitely can’t hurt, they make products specifically for this though that bond directly to the post.
In my experience installing by myself is to attach a stabilizing board front back n side to side just to ensure what I need it to do... And I just removed 363' of old post b split rail fencing and replace all new post b Kentucky Board 16' ers. Today. Always a million ways to skin a cat but what's gonna work for said job... Dude didn't do a bad job but one can tell he Is a fyi kinda guy.
Neighbor had a contractor put up a fence. I had already started mine and he said he likes to use 16' runners instead of 8'.so you're tying into three post instead of two. After I set my post dead center on 8'.i find that 2x4x16 are actually over 16' and had trim each one to hit center of my 4x4s. Flm I just want to go back to being a millwrght where everything is true to dimensions.not to mention had bad the wood is warped.
That's what nominal dimensions are in construction, and longer pieces of lumber are notorious for bows and crowns
Good fences do make good neighbors
Agreed!
Drain the water stop the rot. Concrete above the ground, 2.5 feet of post in the ground, 6 in gravel under the post. 4 (4 inch) lag bolts, one on each side in the concrete. I have fence posts in the ground 16 years with no rot. Everyone in my neighborhood has replaced their fence post twice. I have replaced the pickets once, they weather alot.
What’s the best method for trimming top of posts?? Do you have a video on that?
A 10 1/4” word drive circular saw is the ideal tool for trimming the tops of 4x4 posts. Great suggestion!
This is how I'm doing 100 meters of fenceline. I'll have to post you a video mate.
Has anyone ever tried a 6 inch metal band at the rot point of the posts that is 3 inch above and below the dirt grade to prolong the life of the posts at that section?
Good review
Thanks Terry!
I had 2 friends and the idiot ones mom needed a fence so they get beer and get started from opposite ends and when they got to the middle they didnt fit. They called it the fence that budweiser and coors built.
Can you add some water proof like Red Guard like you do on a shower, add the of the pole?
Absolutely, there’s a product called PostSaver that is specifically made for this purpose!
water, trimmers, and wet vegetation up next to the post should be a major contributing factor to rot. I beat the heck out of my posts with trimmer wire. I have noticed post rot quicker where water flows over the posts. If one doesn't trim around the post water that collects on vegetation will contribute to quicker rot. That is my best guess and I am sticking to it.
I saw a tip somewhere to cut 2 liter bottles to wrap around the bottom of fence posts and young trees to protect from trimmer line. Seemed like a good idea!
I tar the bottom of the post and then roll a mixture of 50% used motor oil and 50% diesel fuel. Let it dry well. My dad did it that way when I was just a young boy (8) and those post are still in great shape today and I am 60 y/o now. Plus I like color it makes them. The trick is to make sure it is a dry pressure treated post, not the wet wet one you get from the store.
joe, would it help to wrap the bottom of the post (in this case 2 feet that goes into the ground) with a product like grace ice shield that roofers use for underlayment, it would be like a thin rubber coating between the post and the concrete and dirt
Probably, but there’s a purpose designed product called PostSaver.
@@JoeEverest i got hooked on your vidoes and did finally see that one, i will be building a fence and gate so thanks for all of the advice. maybe i will try the video thing and you can tell me where i went wrong :)
If you need to set up quickly just buy a bag of lime and pour your concrete into the hole then pour about 1/4 cup in the hole and stir it around then level the post again and backfill with dirt to cover the concrete and it will be hard in less than 30 min.
I live in Cincinnati Ohio. I just removed an old deck that I was told by a neighbor was built in the late 80s. The posts were rotted and the deck was in very sad condition. All the rotted posts were worst just below ground level and broke off there. The ones I got out whole looked good on the end and none were set on stone. Adding stone is probably an unnecessary step.
Seems to me a well driven post is best. Deep and tight. I've pulled t-posts that were 80 years old and in mint shape with only a little rust. Bare cedar posts 30+ year with only rot ring at ground level but perfect below that. 4x4 treated in good shape except at ground level. Just figure every post has some natural life span and accept it. Everything deteriorates right at the ground and all that gravel, treating, pads, cement, coatings is just time and money. Plant it deep, pack it tight. Brace it if it has horizontal loads. My 2 cents.
Since fungus must have water, food (your post), and oxygen to grow, and since the amount of oxygen below about 6"-8", especially in soil with a lot of clay, is pretty negligible, what do you think about a moisture barrier system with a thick mastic layer coating on the post covered by a thick heat shrink membrane from about 9"-12" below grade to 2"-3" above grade as a moisture barrier for the portion where there is oxygen available. Would such a thing help avoid rot in the aerobic zone of the soil?
The heart of oak is more fibrous and seems to be a very hard when dried..tip sounds legit..but makes sence as the heart dries and fibers shrink ..if the heart/ middle of tree was off to the side it could potentially warp it it that direction
Thanks for watching!
The stones create aeration at the bottom of the post
Does ground contact treated wood fair better?
It certainly helps. You’d want to see what that term means for the brand you’re looking at, different brands use that term in different ways.
@@JoeEverest a friend of mine said to use used motor oil and kerosene or diesel fuel ad brush it on at the base and a few inches above, he said the ranchers in Texas do this to there wire fence posts
I have a 10” auger that u just have to slide a 2’ pole thru and turn it by hand. It’s perfect for dirt without a bunch of roots or trash. With a sharp shooter and that auger I can dig almost any post hole and a few. Mins. And I don’t need to rent an auger or the other related expense.
I usually like to add a kicker or 2 to brace it for leveling a lot easier if u don’t have a helper. Rocks or stone are a great idea innthe bottom of the hole.
Concrete cures, not drys. Also I coat the post at the ground area with several coats of sealer to help prevent rot. Just about a one foot band around the post.
Great clarification, I appreciate you sharing your process!