I Have been trying to figure out the 90° reference for 4 hours, this video finally made me understand it and made it seem so easy! This was the only one I could find on the internet. Thank you so much 🤘🤘
I talked to Scott over the phone about this process to determine pushrod length. I checked all the corner cylinders of my build and I can say that this process worked flawlessly as it delivered the most lift and least amount of rocker sweep across my valve stems, each and every time I checked and double checked. Great video! Thanks Scott.
So I spoke with Scott on the phone and he took the time to explain to me in more depth the problem I was having with this method. Basically I was off a bit measuring my 90 degree angle. You have to understand the importance of being precise as possible on this step cause the slightest miscalculation is magnified because of the angles and ratios. Once I got it right the pattern on the valve was very narrow and just barely off center, which tells me my valve is being pushed straight down with very little sweep from side to side. This is the correct way to set up valve train.
THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!!!😊 Very informative and helpful 👍. Can't make everyone happy. Just some miserable people out there. I got EXACTLY what i was searching for and understood the material exactly. This is not a 72 hour highly detailed engine build, instructional video. So obviously and naturally, some things are going to be assumed. It's a great video about a specific step. No one is perfect. I appreciate the time you took to make this great video. Helped me tremendously in my journey!! My project and i thank you sir. 😊🙏
I’m literally just down to determining the pushrod length for my TT 383 build and someone on a different video told me about this one and man am I glad I watched it because it made the process so much easier
Used this method. And got a perfect center sweep with my flat tappet hydraulic lifter. Thanks a bunch. Finally ordered my oushrods today because of thia video!
For those of you that are being sidetract about the rocker ratio and thinking the ratio affects how many turns of the adjusting nut....this doesn't matter.The rocker ratio could be 1.2:1 or 1.9:1........ you still want to have the centreline of the trunions at 90 degrees to the valve at mid lift.....and then when that is established, measure for pushrod length.
Forrest Miller to be fair, the rocker ratio does affect how many turns you need to turn the adjuster, it’s just that it’s already been included. He is making his calculations based on 1/2 of total VALVE lift, which is your cam lift multiplied by rocker ratio.
Awesome vid! And Id like to take a moment to add you’re hands down the most helpful fella Ive run across. Ive never seen anyone say throw out call me if you need help/have questions as you. Hats off to you sir. 👍🏻👍🏻👊🏻
Man I cannot thank you guys enough for this video. This is the absolute best I have ever seen this process explained and it made measuring my pushrods so much easier. I can't like a video harder. :D
Great video, I’ve been racking my brain trying to figure out pushrod length without swapping springs or using solid lifters like almost every other video says you have to do. Thank you.
I was reading "Rocker Geometry" by Jim Miller from Engine Professional, Apr.-Jun. 2010 issue, and trying to wrap my head around it. It's not the easiest article to understand the first time around, and after a couple read overs I looked to see if anyone had done a video on it. This one here made it click right away, and makes it easy. For anyone who watches this, I suggest checking that article out for some more background on why this method works, why measuring "swipe pattern" is tedious, and no way to measure for proper pushrod length, and why a good narrow swipe pattern is simply a by product of using the mid-lift geometry method. Thank you Scott for the easy to understand demonstration.
I’m dyslexic AH. The whole geometry and pushrod length calculations voodoo have always been scary to me. This! I understand. This I can do and repeat over and over and check it and feel good about it. This gives us dyslexics a simple “visual” way to see it, understand it and accomplish it without the hoping and praying it correct and that we haven’t made a mistake. Thank you sir. Wish I’d seen this years ago!
I've watched a variety of videos read a lot about setting this up. Everything was all guess work. You're the first to introduce math and when dealing with precision measurements, you can't guess, you must measure. But... HOW? Well you clearly cleared that up. I've been stressing for days about doing this and if I'd get it right. Tons of second guessing and re-watching yours and other videos but your's is the only one that made the most sense. Sure enough, I did everything you said and with the first turns of the cam, I am 100% in spec with the rocker roller on the top of the cam. I'd like to offer you a virtual hug cuz you're amazing :)
Would just like to say big Thank you for your Talent. At 7:30 in the video your comment, You just established proper pushrod geometry. I then marked the top of my valve stem with a marker and held my rocker up and moved it back and forth over the valve stem. You now can actually see exactly where the rocker roller is located at half lift. Thanks again Scott for the video.
Great video! Thanks for the excellent explanation. I spent a full day of my life trying to figure out push rod length for my 498 stroker BBC. I used 3 different measurement techniques and got consistently different length estimates. Your technique resulted in the longest measurements by about 0.10 - 0.15 over the other methods I used. I decided to rely on your method rather than collapsing lifters, looking at marker patterns, etc. Hope it works properly for me!
His method works on Crane roller rockers, but my roller rockers have a bigger wheel roller on the valve end, so the straight line theory doesnt work for me.
Ummm? Just because the roller at the valve tip is larger, or smaller for that fact, doesn’t change where the center is. You go from center of the trunnion bearing to the center of the tip roller to determine your “center line”. Only hitch I can imagine would be if the intake and exhaust had different size rollers at the tip. And even in that particular case you would just have to measure/setup the intake and exhaust independently.
Here it is I was pondering how to figure it out, knew the info was somewhere, It’s HERE!! Now I can do my Pontiac heads like this with an entire different set up and get the correct PR pieces .. Thank you Very much for this valuable wisdom teaching!!
Best video I have seen yet on how to properly set up rocker geometry. I just watched a different video that was like you said, full of misinformation. Thank you for teaching proper techniques. Awesome video!
This is what a video should be, I clicked he told me what he was meant to....I didn't hear about his wife, weather, or saw wrist and tired....made my day, Thank you.
Thanks for sharing I was taking notes as you are teaching because I will be performing this method this weekend on my 468 BBC Hyd Roller Cam . I commend Howard Cams wouldn’t sell me push rods when I ordered the cam now I know the reason. More performance and longer life!!!!
I know this vid is like 7 yrs old and contains stellar info I was wondering why no-one has done a video when it comes to shaft mounted roller rockers as setting the pushrod length is quite a different process..I know you said its ok to call I still believe in being courteous and let you ultilize your time in the manner you need to utilize it in instead of me calling at an inopportune time.
If your mocking up the engine, it's best to use a used (previously compressed) head gasket. This will save wasting a new one to get the head in the location it will be on the finished engine.
Should edit the video to add a note about stock rocker studs sometimes needing to be swapped out for longer to get this method to work. I’m in the middle of trying to figure this out now. Thanks for the vid!
Dare I call this an introductory, no obligation, gift. Absolutely Free! Shirt, pants, wallet and watch... ✔️. I'm not waiting around for the catch here, this is simply well articulated, sound advise offered to showcase a preview of what potential, existing and past customers shall receive. Thank you sir.
So happy to have found this vid. This has been the most logical explanation of doing this. It all makes sense this way. Hands down. I can't wait to apply this. Thx.
with hydraulic lifters you need to add the proper preload for the lifter used. Different manufacturers may require different preload for the same engine.
J Cunningham 1/2 turn on your rocker stud wont make a big difference. A 3/8 fine thread bolt has .042 per turn, a 7/16 bolt has .050 per turn. You buy custom pushrods at .050 intervals. Some builders like Ralph Johnson, Smokey Yunick etc. run their rockers on the outboard side of the valve, it turns a 1.5 rocker into a 1.65 rocker. ruclips.net/video/RjaosX63DkM/видео.html
I wish you could do a video on shafted rockers. This video was fantastic! I am trying to apply what you taught me to find proper shafted rocker arm alignment. Thank you
Using this method I found out the pushrods I originally bought were dangerously short, .25” too short. Damn I’m glad I took the time to do this. I haven’t put too many miles on it yet so I hope the damage to the valve heads is minimal, it was good on the #1 exh valve I used to check this although my wear pattern was obvious, about 3/32” wide but centered over the top. So centering the roll pattern is obviously not the right way to determine PR length.
+David Sanders Why not use marker??. Marker technique seems much more fool proof than this!. The greater your rocker ratio... the more difficult (read: INACCURATE) this method gets.
I loved the video! Was exactly what I needed! No fat, all meat, and not drawn out. Takes time and effort to do these videos and unfortunately, not everyone appreciates that.
Scott, I read through all the comments and appreciate all the advice you willingly give. I had another question. I may be confused on where a hydraulic lifter sits when pumped up and in a running engine. I think I understand all the measurements and rationale however, here is the question. If I set up the geometry as you say, how is the lifter collapsing due to the 3/4 to 1 turn of the rocker arm nut and the resulting lifter collapsing and or where the push rod seat/lifter top cup (where the push rod sits) affect the measurement that we are calculating. In other words, it seems that the collapsing of the hydraulic lifter (versus solid lifter) would change our measurement (and the 90 degrees and so forth). Thanks in advance for your reply.
Hi, I kind of have a confusion about how rocker arm geometry is met when you have a larger cam, because if an aftermarket cam was installed with a larger amount of lift then the stock one, wouldn’t the larger lift cause the rocker arm to be out of spec with 90 degrees at mid lift. And if the push rods were changed to gain 90 degree geometry at mid lift with this new cam wouldn’t you lose the effect of the larger lift. My next question is how do you find correct rocker arm geometry with stock rocker arms, to my knowledge all you can do is just color in the valve tip and then rotate the motor over a few times and keep adjusting the push rod until the mark left on the valve is centered- is this the best way to this with stock rockers? Then how do you find the proper lifter preload, I am working on a 1979 302 Ford and I have been told to give each rocker arm nut a half a turn to set the preload after running the motor at idle loosening each rocker nut until the rocker arm clatters, then tightening the nut just until it quits clattering. When it comes to lifter preload wouldn’t this also change the rocker arm geometry.
I'd like to say thank you very much for posting this. After trying to do the marker method and seeing how unreliable it is, I am convinced this is the only way get get an accurate measurement when setting up a hydraulic cam.
I’m using a Howard’s cams lifter and they recommend 1/2 to 3/4 turn for preload so if I were to go 3/4 turn with a 3/8 stud would that mean preload is .0315?
I've tried this method several times and it leaves my roller tip way off center of the valve. The wear pattern is way outboard like the pushrod is too long.
great explanation, except he forgot to explain the different measuring requirements for solid lifter and hydraulic lifter. when measuring pushrod length, add .020 for preload, if using hydraulic lifters.
Norm, thanks for the kind words. We add .050" because most hyd roller today have around .140" of plunger travel and the OEM have found more preload allows the lifter to recover quicker.
Loved the video. Well done my friend. Easily understandable and well versed and it tought me a thing or two that for sure.thanks. you just made a subscriber out of me.
I am building a 540 bbc with dart pro 1s. The question I have is to get proper rocker geometry do u need to torque the head down with the gasket? I also need to check my piston to valve clearance. I would hate crush a brand new gasket in order to set the geometry right. What I am really saying I want the proper pushrod for when I check my piston to valve clearance. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Awesome video indeed! But just to see if I get this right, at the point of extending the adjustable pushrod (9:48) and taking up all the slack, the valve is still in it's fully closed position. So, at this point the lifter was sitting on the base circle of the cam, right?
Simple and easy to understand, but what do you do with hydraulic lifters? How do you adjust for getting the lash set to the middle of the hydraulic lifter's range? Do we add that to the length?
You get a solid lifter or make one outta ur hydraulic lifter. Once you get length set you add either .042 or .050 for me I had got 7.4250 on my flat tappet hydraulic lifter. Added .42 and got a length of 7.8450. Which gave me a perfect 90 degree angle on my 1.5 rocker arm at half lift.
The problem I ran into using this method is: when using valves with +0.200" length and lash caps +0.080" the resulting height causes the intersection of angles between the rocker stud and the valve to become such that the roller tip is far to much toward the exhaust side of the stem. So I'm having to find a happy medium between this method and center, or not so center of valve methods.
I have one question: Previously for piston to valve clearance checking purposes I converted two of the existing hydraulic lifters my engine uses into solid ones. I did this by using washers to locate the top internal moving part of the lifter (sorry not sure what it's called exactly) against the bottom of the retainer wire/clip piece. Should I use the lifters in this condition for the geometry check/set-up or change them back to original first?
I use the Manley pushrod checker, comp cams tech had me do it like in the video and the pushrod length were the same both ways …… slip it over stud till it touches top of valve then adj pushrod to touch the checker
Finally got to try the half lift method and have to say I dont know what it is but it gave me a length that put the roller tip on the outboard side of the valve tip center line. Something is not right and I did this measurement multiple times and still keep coming up with a pushrod length of 6.50" length. If I use the OE pushrod length of 6.25" the roller tip is on the inboard side of the valve tip center line. Using 6.35" puts the roller tip slightly closer to the center line of the valve tip. Even adding the thickness of the head gasket would still put it at 6.40".
With the length you must have a SBF. Rocker geometry from different mfg vary. You will need backset rocker. If not used a wide centered sweep pattern will wear out valve guides.
@@straubtechnologies9011, yep ford 302 OE roller. I did the math on the 2/3 lift method which in all my reading the other day kept coming up in posts after 2015. With the 2/3 lift method it actually gives me a 6.35" pushrod which puts the starting point just on the intake side of the center of the valve. Still doing some reading on the 2/3 lift method how ever and seeing if it would be a viable alternative for a street driven engine that wont turn over 6,000 rpm.
Good Video; I have found that if your using Hydraulic Lifters, especially aftermarket anti-pump up types (i.e. isky,crane,etc.) not only do you want to completely submerge the new lifters in Fresh oil (same as your going to use) over night; but before installing them in your engine; leave them submerged and install a pushrod in your drill press and pump the plunger up and down of each lifter until no bubbles come from the purging hole/s in the lifter, Than you have no worries of collapse,preload,etc, after installation
Take an old lifter the same measurement as you are using, take it apart and fill it up with JB Weld, then put it back together to get a good measurement.
I might be missing something here but because the pivot point (as you wind the adjuster/polylock down) is the nose roller, then wouldn't the distance the pushrod end of the rocker moves, be more than 0.355"? I would think the pushrod end of the rocker would lower 0.533" (if you were using a 1.5 ratio rocker). If you wanted the pushrod end of the rocker to go half lift, would you not wind the adjuster 0.237" (for a 1.5 ratio rocker) ie. 4 3/4 turns on your 7/16" stud? Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just trying to understand it all.
The head he is using is a Big Block Chevy, Rocker arm ratio is = { 1.7}. Gross valve lift is .711 {1/ 2 gross valve lift is = .355 } .355 / rocker ratio { 1.7} = .209 lobe lift.(1/2 lobe lift } At 1/2 lobe lift the rocker arm roller on the tip should sit in the center of the valve
This is a very informative video on a widely misunderstood subject. The gasket whether or not it's there has no bearing on the information freely given. Unless you're getting custom pushrods or making your own you can't get them in increments smaller than your gasket thickness.
@jeffreydurham5342, I 2nd that! Well said sir! Some people are absolutely ridiculous theses days. I was so happy last night when I found this video! Seriously, of we all could male that 1st comment positive, I think we'd all be working towards a better place. Not a declining one
Great video! This is definitely going to help me out. I see it's and old video so I'm not sure if Scott still works there. From the video I could tell if the head gasket was in there. Once you get the measurement shown do you have to add to the measurement for head gasket and valve lash?
Good question. I myself didn't notice if the head gasket was there or not, but curious if it needs to be accounted for. Seems like it would affect the final rod length.
Excellent video! Makes logical sense. I tried this on my 454 with Edelbrock Performer heads and Harland Sharp rockers and encountered a problem-in order to get the line drawn at rocker pivot centers 90 degrees to the valve stem, the stud will be too short to catch any threads with the locknut. What to do now? Thanks
+Scott Foxwell OK, cleared that hurdle, thanks for the tip, but now I get a much shorter result using the marker method (12 turns out on the checker tool) vs. this method (20 turns out). With this method, the roller tip is to the exhaust edge of the valve stem, nowhere near centered. What am I doing wrong? Thanks
Scott, excellent video! You explain the process so that it's very easy to understand and you're very well spoken. Thank you for taking the time to help us all out. I had a quick question though. Do you measure for both intake and exhaust lengths if you have a split pattern cam? Would you use a different push rod length for both if the gross valve lift is different for the intake and exhaust?
If I turn a 7/16" nut down 5 turns, the pivot point of the rocker arm travels down the stud .250". But the rocker arm is not symmetrical, in that it has, say a 1.60 ratio. So if the pivot point goes down .250", does theoretically the valve would "lift" .400". Am I off base here?
Mr. Foxwell, lots of mixed info out there about finding true TDC, how to degree the cam, check it’s specs and measure piston to valve clearance, too. Would love to see what you have to say on these matters. Thanks
I Have been trying to figure out the 90° reference for 4 hours, this video finally made me understand it and made it seem so easy! This was the only one I could find on the internet. Thank you so much 🤘🤘
Lol, here from your video. BIG thanks to the Straub guys
I talked to Scott over the phone about this process to determine pushrod length. I checked all the corner cylinders of my build and I can say that this process worked flawlessly as it delivered the most lift and least amount of rocker sweep across my valve stems, each and every time I checked and double checked. Great video! Thanks Scott.
So I spoke with Scott on the phone and he took the time to explain to me in more depth the problem I was having with this method. Basically I was off a bit measuring my 90 degree angle. You have to understand the importance of being precise as possible on this step cause the slightest miscalculation is magnified because of the angles and ratios. Once I got it right the pattern on the valve was very narrow and just barely off center, which tells me my valve is being pushed straight down with very little sweep from side to side. This is the correct way to set up valve train.
THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!!!😊 Very informative and helpful 👍. Can't make everyone happy. Just some miserable people out there. I got EXACTLY what i was searching for and understood the material exactly. This is not a 72 hour highly detailed engine build, instructional video. So obviously and naturally, some things are going to be assumed. It's a great video about a specific step. No one is perfect. I appreciate the time you took to make this great video. Helped me tremendously in my journey!! My project and i thank you sir. 😊🙏
yes sir this is a very good video probably the best on here .thank you
I’m literally just down to determining the pushrod length for my TT 383 build and someone on a different video told me about this one and man am I glad I watched it because it made the process so much easier
Used this method. And got a perfect center sweep with my flat tappet hydraulic lifter. Thanks a bunch. Finally ordered my oushrods today because of thia video!
Thank you for an excellent video and explanation. I watched a half dozen tonight, and this was the clearest and easiest to understand. Thanks!
Looks like I got lucky, this is my 2nd and extremely clear compared to the last vid.
Cody Stelzer this was my first. I don’t think I need to watch any others.
Oh look, how to degree a cam in the related videos.... I’m off
Scott, hands down this is the best explanation/demonstration about. Thank you.
This is absolutely THE BEST description of how to find your proper push rod length.
For those of you that are being sidetract about the rocker ratio and thinking the ratio affects how many turns of the adjusting nut....this doesn't matter.The rocker ratio could be 1.2:1 or 1.9:1........ you still want to have the centreline of the trunions at 90 degrees to the valve at mid lift.....and then when that is established, measure for pushrod length.
Forrest Miller to be fair, the rocker ratio does affect how many turns you need to turn the adjuster, it’s just that it’s already been included. He is making his calculations based on 1/2 of total VALVE lift, which is your cam lift multiplied by rocker ratio.
This does not take the ratio into consideration. The lift is on the cam which will be multiplied with the ratio to create the valve movement
Awesome vid! And Id like to take a moment to add you’re hands down the most helpful fella Ive run across. Ive never seen anyone say throw out call me if you need help/have questions as you. Hats off to you sir. 👍🏻👍🏻👊🏻
Man I cannot thank you guys enough for this video. This is the absolute best I have ever seen this process explained and it made measuring my pushrods so much easier. I can't like a video harder. :D
Great video, I’ve been racking my brain trying to figure out pushrod length without swapping springs or using solid lifters like almost every other video says you have to do. Thank you.
I was reading "Rocker Geometry" by Jim Miller from Engine Professional, Apr.-Jun. 2010 issue, and trying to wrap my head around it. It's not the easiest article to understand the first time around, and after a couple read overs I looked to see if anyone had done a video on it. This one here made it click right away, and makes it easy. For anyone who watches this, I suggest checking that article out for some more background on why this method works, why measuring "swipe pattern" is tedious, and no way to measure for proper pushrod length, and why a good narrow swipe pattern is simply a by product of using the mid-lift geometry method. Thank you Scott for the easy to understand demonstration.
Valvetrain Geometry is something most other engine building videos glaze over; this is by far the best video I've seen on how to properly do this.
awfsh
I’m dyslexic AH. The whole geometry and pushrod length calculations voodoo have always been scary to me. This! I understand. This I can do and repeat over and over and check it and feel good about it. This gives us dyslexics a simple “visual” way to see it, understand it and accomplish it without the hoping and praying it correct and that we haven’t made a mistake. Thank you sir. Wish I’d seen this years ago!
I've watched a variety of videos read a lot about setting this up. Everything was all guess work. You're the first to introduce math and when dealing with precision measurements, you can't guess, you must measure. But... HOW? Well you clearly cleared that up. I've been stressing for days about doing this and if I'd get it right. Tons of second guessing and re-watching yours and other videos but your's is the only one that made the most sense.
Sure enough, I did everything you said and with the first turns of the cam, I am 100% in spec with the rocker roller on the top of the cam. I'd like to offer you a virtual hug cuz you're amazing :)
Would just like to say big Thank you for your Talent. At 7:30 in the video your comment, You just established proper pushrod geometry. I then marked the top of my valve stem with a marker and held my rocker up and moved it back and forth over the valve stem. You now can actually see exactly where the rocker roller is located at half lift. Thanks again Scott for the video.
This is by far the best explanation of measuring proper pushrod length and rocker arm geometry. Thank You for this video.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. Nearly every other video on this topic leaves out the specifics.
This is the best video. Very nice explanation, and the camera got in there up close when it needed to
This is the very best info to make the adjustments and push rod length selection I have ever seen!
Great video! Thanks for the excellent explanation. I spent a full day of my life trying to figure out push rod length for my 498 stroker BBC. I used 3 different measurement techniques and got consistently different length estimates. Your technique resulted in the longest measurements by about 0.10 - 0.15 over the other methods I used. I decided to rely on your method rather than collapsing lifters, looking at marker patterns, etc. Hope it works properly for me!
His method works on Crane roller rockers, but my roller rockers have a bigger wheel roller on the valve end, so the straight line theory doesnt work for me.
Ummm? Just because the roller at the valve tip is larger, or smaller for that fact, doesn’t change where the center is. You go from center of the trunnion bearing to the center of the tip roller to determine your “center line”. Only hitch I can imagine would be if the intake and exhaust had different size rollers at the tip. And even in that particular case you would just have to measure/setup the intake and exhaust independently.
Here it is I was pondering how to figure it out, knew the info was somewhere, It’s HERE!!
Now I can do my Pontiac heads like this with an entire different set up and get the correct PR pieces ..
Thank you Very much for this valuable wisdom teaching!!
This tutorial just changed the game for me. Very good information!
Best video I have seen yet on how to properly set up rocker geometry. I just watched a different video that was like you said, full of misinformation. Thank you for teaching proper techniques. Awesome video!
This video was amazing! Explains and shows everything so clearly! Thanks!
This is what a video should be, I clicked he told me what he was meant to....I didn't hear about his wife, weather, or saw wrist and tired....made my day, Thank you.
Thanks for sharing I was taking notes as you are teaching because I will be performing this method this weekend on my 468 BBC Hyd Roller Cam . I commend Howard Cams wouldn’t sell me push rods when I ordered the cam now I know the reason. More performance and longer life!!!!
Man on man this is an excellent video. A grade schooler can understand this. Thank you.
couldn't be explained any better. good job
Thank you, my friend! My first engine rebuild a success thanks to your video.
Thank you. Just exactly what I needed to learn. Hope you do more instructionals. Very well done
Could you please make a similar video using shaft mounted roller rockers - showing shimming under pedestal mounts etc. for centerlines?
I know this vid is like 7 yrs old and contains stellar info I was wondering why no-one has done a video when it comes to shaft mounted roller rockers as setting the pushrod length is quite a different process..I know you said its ok to call I still believe in being courteous and let you ultilize your time in the manner you need to utilize it in instead of me calling at an inopportune time.
Thanks...This made more sense than anyone here on RUclips.
If your mocking up the engine, it's best to use a used (previously compressed) head gasket. This will save wasting a new one to get the head in the location it will be on the finished engine.
Should edit the video to add a note about stock rocker studs sometimes needing to be swapped out for longer to get this method to work. I’m in the middle of trying to figure this out now. Thanks for the vid!
Dare I call this an introductory, no obligation, gift. Absolutely Free! Shirt, pants, wallet and watch... ✔️. I'm not waiting around for the catch here, this is simply well articulated, sound advise offered to showcase a preview of what potential, existing and past customers shall receive. Thank you sir.
Thank you for this video. Greenhorns like myself need the help. Much appreciated.
Thanks a lot for sharing this video. Very professionally explained.
Waaayyy more informative and detailed than summits video.
So happy to have found this vid. This has been the most logical explanation of doing this. It all makes sense this way. Hands down. I can't wait to apply this. Thx.
Best explanation on rocker arm geometry .. A+A+A+..
with hydraulic lifters you need to add the proper preload for the lifter used. Different manufacturers may require different preload for the same engine.
J Cunningham 1/2 turn on your rocker stud wont make a big difference. A 3/8 fine thread bolt has .042 per turn, a 7/16 bolt has .050 per turn. You buy custom pushrods at .050 intervals. Some builders like Ralph Johnson, Smokey Yunick etc. run their rockers on the outboard side of the valve, it turns a 1.5 rocker into a 1.65 rocker. ruclips.net/video/RjaosX63DkM/видео.html
Great video Scott . Thanks for the information!! Well done 👏🏻🏁😎
Great video. You're good at explaining.
I wish you could do a video on shafted rockers. This video was fantastic! I am trying to apply what you taught me to find proper shafted rocker arm alignment. Thank you
Using this method I found out the pushrods I originally bought were dangerously short, .25” too short. Damn I’m glad I took the time to do this. I haven’t put too many miles on it yet so I hope the damage to the valve heads is minimal, it was good on the #1 exh valve I used to check this although my wear pattern was obvious, about 3/32” wide but centered over the top. So centering the roll pattern is obviously not the right way to determine PR length.
Thanks. Big help.
Excellent video! This is the proper way to measure, do NOT use the maker technique this is proper geometry and won't stress your parts. Thank you!
David Sanders Thank you.
+David Sanders Why not use marker??. Marker technique seems much more fool proof than this!.
The greater your rocker ratio... the more difficult (read: INACCURATE) this method gets.
+Marek Sumguy
A marker over math. I dont' think so. You base the lift off of what rocker ratio you are using.
+Dave Mustaine Yes I left a warning comment on that video, haha.
+Dave Mustaine I just watched it and was like WTF
That was a new way of doing it very enjoyable but still will be measuring both ways just 2 make sure of everything.
Excellent presentation! Three thumbs up!
Thanks for sharing that, very good video skills.
fantastic video mate , the real reason the internet is here , knowledge sharing.
scott , just wanted to say thanks for the video . really helped me out . God bless .
Genius! It's so simple !
I loved the video! Was exactly what I needed! No fat, all meat, and not drawn out. Takes time and effort to do these videos and unfortunately, not everyone appreciates that.
Scott, I read through all the comments and appreciate all the advice you willingly give. I had another question. I may be confused on where a hydraulic lifter sits when pumped up and in a running engine. I think I understand all the measurements and rationale however, here is the question. If I set up the geometry as you say, how is the lifter collapsing due to the 3/4 to 1 turn of the rocker arm nut and the resulting lifter collapsing and or where the push rod seat/lifter top cup (where the push rod sits) affect the measurement that we are calculating. In other words, it seems that the collapsing of the hydraulic lifter (versus solid lifter) would change our measurement (and the 90 degrees and so forth). Thanks in advance for your reply.
DAn did you ever figure this out? I assume your asking if you add the preload into the lenght of the push rod?
Next 400SBC & 402BBB, we will be doing business together. Live life LOUD!!!!
Yea. That was pretty clean!!
Larry
Hi, I kind of have a confusion about how rocker arm geometry is met when you have a larger cam, because if an aftermarket cam was installed with a larger amount of lift then the stock one, wouldn’t the larger lift cause the rocker arm to be out of spec with 90 degrees at mid lift. And if the push rods were changed to gain 90 degree geometry at mid lift with this new cam wouldn’t you lose the effect of the larger lift.
My next question is how do you find correct rocker arm geometry with stock rocker arms, to my knowledge all you can do is just color in the valve tip and then rotate the motor over a few times and keep adjusting the push rod until the mark left on the valve is centered- is this the best way to this with stock rockers?
Then how do you find the proper lifter preload, I am working on a 1979 302 Ford and I have been told to give each rocker arm nut a half a turn to set the preload after running the motor at idle loosening each rocker nut until the rocker arm clatters, then tightening the nut just until it quits clattering.
When it comes to lifter preload wouldn’t this also change the rocker arm geometry.
I'd like to say thank you very much for posting this.
After trying to do the marker method and seeing how unreliable it is, I am convinced this is the only way get get an accurate measurement when setting up a hydraulic cam.
I’m using a Howard’s cams lifter and they recommend 1/2 to 3/4 turn for preload so if I were to go 3/4 turn with a 3/8 stud would that mean preload is .0315?
Great video. Excellent explanation.
Great video. Exactly what I needed.
I've tried this method several times and it leaves my roller tip way off center of the valve. The wear pattern is way outboard like the pushrod is too long.
Great video, thanks for the schooling. Paisano
1:45 note. 90 degrees to the valve at mid lift.
Good reminder!
great explanation, except he forgot to explain the different measuring
requirements for solid lifter and hydraulic lifter. when measuring
pushrod length, add .020 for preload, if using hydraulic lifters.
Norm, thanks for the kind words. We add .050" because most hyd roller today have around .140" of plunger travel and the OEM have found more preload allows the lifter to recover quicker.
@@straubtechnologies9011 that is true. i was only thinking of non-roller. still, your
explanation/demonstration is the best i have seen. thanks.
Excellent! Clear and concise!
Great video, crystal clear, thank you, thank you!
Loved the video. Well done my friend. Easily understandable and well versed and it tought me a thing or two that for sure.thanks. you just made a subscriber out of me.
I am building a 540 bbc
with dart pro 1s. The question I have is to
get proper rocker geometry do u need to
torque the head down
with the gasket? I also
need to check my piston
to valve clearance. I would hate crush a brand new gasket in
order to set the geometry right. What
I am really saying I
want the proper pushrod
for when I check my piston to valve clearance. Any advice
would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Great video. Very clear. Thank you!
Awesome video indeed!
But just to see if I get this right, at the point of extending the adjustable pushrod (9:48) and taking up all the slack, the valve is still in it's fully closed position. So, at this point the lifter was sitting on the base circle of the cam, right?
Is it setting on the base circle of the cam
Simple and easy to understand, but what do you do with hydraulic lifters? How do you adjust for getting the lash set to the middle of the hydraulic lifter's range? Do we add that to the length?
You get a solid lifter or make one outta ur hydraulic lifter. Once you get length set you add either .042 or .050 for me I had got 7.4250 on my flat tappet hydraulic lifter. Added .42 and got a length of 7.8450. Which gave me a perfect 90 degree angle on my 1.5 rocker arm at half lift.
The problem I ran into using this method is: when using valves with +0.200" length and lash caps +0.080" the resulting height causes the intersection of angles between the rocker stud and the valve to become such that the roller tip is far to much toward the exhaust side of the stem. So I'm having to find a happy medium between this method and center, or not so center of valve methods.
We have corrected rocker arms with the geometry to fix this. www.straubtechnologies.com
You should have mentioned the camshaft position
if the person watching doesnt understand that, they have no chance of completing the task
Top notch Sir, much obliged for the insight
When measuring the pushrod checking tool, do you need to make any compensations for hydraulic lifters? This is a great video. Best on the net. Thanks!
My understanding is that if you're using lightweight checker springs, it won't compress the hydraulic lifter but you have to verify that visually.
I have one question:
Previously for piston to valve clearance checking purposes I converted two of the existing hydraulic lifters my engine uses into solid ones. I did this by using washers to locate the top internal moving part of the lifter (sorry not sure what it's called exactly) against the bottom of the retainer wire/clip piece.
Should I use the lifters in this condition for the geometry check/set-up or change them back to original first?
I use the Manley pushrod checker, comp cams tech had me do it like in the video and the pushrod length were the same both ways …… slip it over stud till it touches top of valve then adj pushrod to touch the checker
Thanks for this excellent tutorial
Finally got to try the half lift method and have to say I dont know what it is but it gave me a length that put the roller tip on the outboard side of the valve tip center line. Something is not right and I did this measurement multiple times and still keep coming up with a pushrod length of 6.50" length.
If I use the OE pushrod length of 6.25" the roller tip is on the inboard side of the valve tip center line. Using 6.35" puts the roller tip slightly closer to the center line of the valve tip. Even adding the thickness of the head gasket would still put it at 6.40".
With the length you must have a SBF. Rocker geometry from different mfg vary. You will need backset rocker. If not used a wide centered sweep pattern will wear out valve guides.
@@straubtechnologies9011, yep ford 302 OE roller. I did the math on the 2/3 lift method which in all my reading the other day kept coming up in posts after 2015. With the 2/3 lift method it actually gives me a 6.35" pushrod which puts the starting point just on the intake side of the center of the valve.
Still doing some reading on the 2/3 lift method how ever and seeing if it would be a viable alternative for a street driven engine that wont turn over 6,000 rpm.
Good Video; I have found that if your using Hydraulic Lifters, especially aftermarket anti-pump up types (i.e. isky,crane,etc.) not only do you want to completely submerge the new lifters in Fresh oil (same as your going to use) over night; but before installing them in your engine; leave them submerged and install a pushrod in your drill press and pump the plunger up and down of each lifter until no bubbles come from the purging hole/s in the lifter, Than you have no worries of collapse,preload,etc, after installation
Take an old lifter the same measurement as you are using, take it apart and fill it up with JB Weld, then put it back together to get a good measurement.
i use an oil squirt can and fill the lifter.
Thankyou Scott excellent video.
Sure like your video but for me the music is a little annoying. Thanks this looks a lot easier and quicker than the others I’ve watched👍🤙
Ok I just truly want to talk for just a minute here I please hear your voice search for a second
]
I might be missing something here but because the pivot point (as you wind the adjuster/polylock down) is the nose roller, then wouldn't the distance the pushrod end of the rocker moves, be more than 0.355"? I would think the pushrod end of the rocker would lower 0.533" (if you were using a 1.5 ratio rocker). If you wanted the pushrod end of the rocker to go half lift, would you not wind the adjuster 0.237" (for a 1.5 ratio rocker) ie. 4 3/4 turns on your 7/16" stud? Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just trying to understand it all.
The head he is using is a Big Block Chevy, Rocker arm ratio is = { 1.7}. Gross valve lift is .711 {1/ 2 gross valve lift is = .355 } .355 / rocker ratio { 1.7} = .209 lobe lift.(1/2 lobe lift } At 1/2 lobe lift the rocker arm roller on the tip should sit in the center of the valve
Wouldn't the head have to be placed on the block WITH the gasket to determine proper pushrod length?
Obviously
This is a very informative video on a widely misunderstood subject. The gasket whether or not it's there has no bearing on the information freely given. Unless you're getting custom pushrods or making your own you can't get them in increments smaller than your gasket thickness.
@jeffreydurham5342, I 2nd that! Well said sir! Some people are absolutely ridiculous theses days. I was so happy last night when I found this video! Seriously, of we all could male that 1st comment positive, I think we'd all be working towards a better place. Not a declining one
Great video! This is definitely going to help me out. I see it's and old video so I'm not sure if Scott still works there. From the video I could tell if the head gasket was in there. Once you get the measurement shown do you have to add to the measurement for head gasket and valve lash?
Good question.
I myself didn't notice if the head gasket was there or not, but curious if it needs to be accounted for.
Seems like it would affect the final rod length.
This is an outstanding video.
Hi
Sorry where does the cam lobe position need to be for checking pushrod length ?
Excellent video! Makes logical sense.
I tried this on my 454 with Edelbrock Performer heads and Harland Sharp rockers and encountered a problem-in order to get the line drawn at rocker pivot centers 90 degrees to the valve stem, the stud will be too short to catch any threads with the locknut. What to do now?
Thanks
+Scott Foxwell OK, cleared that hurdle, thanks for the tip, but now I get a much shorter result using the marker method (12 turns out on the checker tool) vs. this method (20 turns out). With this method, the roller tip is to the exhaust edge of the valve stem, nowhere near centered. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks
Scott Foxwell
You’d like the adjuster to have 6-7 turns before it meets rocker trunion?
Scott, excellent video! You explain the process so that it's very easy to understand and you're very well spoken. Thank you for taking the time to help us all out. I had a quick question though. Do you measure for both intake and exhaust lengths if you have a split pattern cam? Would you use a different push rod length for both if the gross valve lift is different for the intake and exhaust?
If I turn a 7/16" nut down 5 turns, the pivot point of the rocker arm travels down the stud .250". But the rocker arm is not symmetrical, in that it has, say a 1.60 ratio. So if the pivot point goes down .250", does theoretically the valve would "lift" .400". Am I off base here?
Very nice video.. Thanks for sharing.
Mr. Foxwell, lots of mixed info out there about finding true TDC, how to degree the cam, check it’s specs and measure piston to valve clearance, too. Would love to see what you have to say on these matters. Thanks
Wish I saw this sooner lol. Great explanation!
Scott, I forgot to mention I am using roller lifters on my Small Block Chevy.
My theory based on this video. with 7/16 studs 710 lift=7.1 turns 540 lift + 5.4 turns etc.
See the pattern. whaddaya think