I don’t think it’s a money grab. Unless you know the material cost and labor involved, there’s no way one would know if it’s a sneaky way to charge more for black paint. Everything in the world has increased in price over the past 3 or 4 years including paint.
If they make 1000 of the base color, and 200 of the other colors…. Then they have to charge more for the other colors. That’s how it works. Black just isn’t the base color anymore.
I do not want a black bike even if it’s the cheapest option. It doesn’t appeal to me, too inconvenient to maintain. I get that it was to show off their craftsmanship but newer customers want practicality.
Are you sure that’s a Pan America back there? Could be a “Bronx” 🤔. I do think you’re right with the PA Standard tho, could be rolling out the PA with the 975 Rev Max engine 🤔. That’s the vibe I got watching Laidlaw’s Video this morning. He also went over price changes for this year and a fair chunk of them had a price drop.
I agree, I'm thinking it COULD BE the 975 Pan American but I'm more inclined to say it's the Bronx. Pan Americans have the two low slung road lamps mounted on the radiators, I don't see them on that 3rd bike...
I for sure think the touring models need inverted fronts as you say and go to the monoshock. And still seeing halogen lights on the carryovers. Defiantly no excuse for that in 2024.
The billard gray is seen with a good amount of professional tables nowadays. Growing up my dad would play in some pro tournaments and the halls had red and gray tables for the serious players while the drinkers got the green tables
Personally I'm not a fan of gray. I think they should offer the gray and the black at the same price and then maybe charge extra for other colors. I do like the changes they made to the fairings. I think they left the front end like it was so that is one of the upgrades you get by choosing the CVO.
i like the billiard grey ... that's a base model bonus if you ask me. i like that they change up the paint options , but getting a new base model color is like a breath of fresh air. nothing extra for cool fuel on a hot day ? , comon, let's hear it for the billiard grey.
@@RulgertGhostalker I don't care that they offer it. The more colors the better actually. Everyone is different as seen here. I do wish they still offered the black at no extra charge. For me the gray is a no go. I think you will see a lot of these available being the standard color.
Thanks for the reliable info. You always have better content than other channels. Have you given any more motorcycles away lately?????? Why, all of a sudden is Harley changing for their flagship colour black???????????
I think Harley Davidson for the 2024 model year, is going to be going back to its roots when they had the Gray tone bikes back in the early 1900s. If you look at the color of the lettering on the tank, it's almost an exact match for what they did back then. I think it's just a style change that they're trying to go for the a couple years, maybe.
I'm surprised you didn't mention that there's no chrome option for the Ultra Limited and the Road Glide Ultra. I was ready to buy a 2024 Ultra LImited, but I wanted chrome -- plus I don't like any of the Ultra color options (except maybe Blue Burst). I'll have to wait until Jan 24th to see if they have anything I want this year.
I'm on a Low Rider ST and will jump to a Road Glide when it gets the inverted front. Will be a bit disappointing if it gets the fairing but not the inverted forks.
I think you might still get the inverted front forks on the ST and CVO models, just not the Special/Standard bikes. That’s pretty consistent with what they’ve been doing so I am not that surprised even though I was hoping to see it throughout the lineup and completely agree that it’s time.
I'm so glad Harley made it easy for me. 1.) I'm keep my 2010 Heritage, and never trading it in. 2.) I will never go buy a 2024 and newer Harley. My cut-off is 2023.
Great video Blair. I think HD have sunk to a new low charging extra for everyone's favorite color. Black. I can hear their thinking now, " Everyone buys the basic no extra black paint. Let's make an ugly grey our base color, and make more $$$$ charging extra for black." One quick suggestion, you should adjust your mike boom, so you don't have to look around it to see your camera. Peace.
the 2024 pan am special on the website clearly has a new "1250" sticker on the fairing which to me says that they are making the standard a smaller displacement and hopefully cheaper/lighter or else there is no reason to put that on there if they are all the same, although I don't know how much weight they can shave off. It would be awesome if they could get it down closer to the weight of a tenere 700 but I don't think that's possible.
I think that was the hold up last time in not doing the 975 model that "leaked" was the weight. I agree if they could get it down to KTM890 weight even would make the Pan Am a VERY capable bike. I really hope you're right but I think HD has something else in store for the PA.
I have one other comment and one question for you. Comment number one I believe the traditional batwing and shark nose fairing will be back for 24 either as a standard or a special or both something tells me they have a lot of parts laying around and they will not totally do away with it for those who also don’t like the new styling. My question is will they come out with a 139 cubic inch motor for a bagger type race bike that will be sold in limited numbers?
The Limited, Road Glide Limited, RG3 and the Tri Glide still come with traditional fairings. I’d say those bike would eat up any remaining inventory. They also plan years in advance for these transitions so I’d imagine numbers aren’t crazy. That Sport Pan Am would be amazing. I haven’t heard about that but doesn’t mean it couldn’t be true. The fact that the 135 just came out this year I’m skeptical about another even bigger engine but again doesn’t mean it can’t happen. I’ve seen kits that go all the way up into the 150’s so we know it’s possible to do.
Black should be the base color. As for the new models: I think the road glide and street glide will get the fairings like the cvo’, perhaps with less sophisticated back sides and gages but with the large infotainment screen. Also, maybe the ST’s get the inverted front end. Although my opinion is that HD should upgrade the suspension of all touring models to the level of the new cvo’s. And the Pan America standard probably will get a smaller revolution max engine since that’s where the big growth is in the adventure market. 800 or 900 cc.
Guess I can call my 23 Street Glide standard a classic now. Its even black at no extra charge. lol I like the CVO Road Glide, but to slap a new fairing on an old horse is not going to make me want to trade. Waiting for the launch.
i like the billiard grey ... that's a base model bonus if you ask me. i like that they change up the paint options , but getting a new base model color is like a breath of fresh air........nothing extra for cool fuel on a hot day ? , comon, let's hear it for the billiard grey.
this year is going to be a make / break for my choice for my next bike as I am in the market. Paying extra for a solid color is a bit much, and hopefully some of the CVO elements/tech/etc filter down. If its simply a fairing change and not changes to the suspension, tech or comfort points, and increased cost (for paint and no real upgrades) I may look at the leftover market, but there are too many other options out there.
i like the billiard grey ... that's a base model bonus if you ask me. i like that they change up the paint options , but getting a new base model color is like a breath of fresh air. nothing extra for cool fuel on a hot day ? , comon, let's hear it for the billiard grey.
i am hoping for some CVO elements filtering down also. the VVT, the lighter weight moves....good stuff there; but not the stroker crank, that was a bad move; the bikes exhast valves open before the fuel has fished burning soon enough as it is ... i would rather see the 131 bore on a 4" stroke CVO.
Im hoping it's the bronx rolling at the back! It's time for harley to introduce it, and start competing in that segment of the market. Plus, it'd be dope to see it racing in the super hooligan class in motoamerica.
Completely ridiculous on their part to start charging for what has always been their standard paint color. I’m not a fan of the Billiard Gray or Black honestly. I can’t understand why every year I wait like some school kid for them to come out with some great color options, and every year I end up disappointed. This is something they just can’t seem to get right. I really think the Motor Company has become caught up putting too much stock in the people sitting at desks and not getting out and talking to their consumers about what they’d like to see!
Great video, as always. I was looking at what's on the site, and some things got me thinking. For sure, changes are coming. Some colors are listed but not visible. I hope the changes that are coming are for the better and not some tacky stuff. Billiard Grey only looks good on black, PERIOD! 👊😎✌️
BUT you can buy a plastic fugly Nighster. Man just buy used. Plenty of low mile change of mind bikes about at decent prices and you dont take the depreciation hit.
I think we will see a midsize ADV category Pan America. Probably the 975cc engine this was gonna be in the Bronx. Competitors would be KTM790/890 ADV, Honda TransAlp and/or AfricaTwin, Triumph Tiger900, maybe a Ducati DesertX, etc. Midsize ADV category is hot right now, HD probably needs to get in on the action.
One of the bean counters got an assignment in paint pricing. In addition to black being an upcharge from gray, there are several pricing tiers for some models, with almost every color being a different price. Was this the case in the past? Dunno, when dealers tack on $1000 for extra setup here, $1000 for market adjustment there .. splitting hundred-dollar bills for the color you want just seems like noise anyway.
It’s a BS nickel and dime by Harley Davidson charging extra for black. Some bean counter pitched the savings to the CEO and won. I would feel better saying my paint was “ battleship” those suckers were bad ass in WWII. Riding a pool table……no thanks.
The pricing on black is a marketing tool I believe. Nickel and diming the customer once again. They look at the data of how many black bikes sell and some bean counter says "ya know if we just change black to an option color, we'll make $x,xxx,xxx over the previous year." The bikes go up typically $1k a year. They get their $1k increase PLUS color option. Now they can say, "look we got rid of the surcharge!" Like they're doing us a favor. Basically, they just moved the line item. I had a 13 CVO brand new back in the day and the regular limited is now the price of what I paid for the CVO. When payments start reaching mortgage levels, it's time to re-evaluate. I don't think wages have doubled in 10 years, so who do they expect to buy these things?
Colors are largely a mess this year, which is rare. The red color should be called regurgitated tomato soup. The blue-gray looks nice, but it’s the only color option that does. Black should always be the default. The gray is already played out - every car manufacturer had that color option last year.
So, the people that paid 40 - 50k for the exclusive CVO fairings are gonna get screwed by Harley?? Why should anybody buy a CVO if that new fairing is going to transfer immediately to the main line Road Glides and Street Glide?
The only thing I can think is that HD was at the 10 year mark since the Rushmore redesign and knew they had to do something. They seem to be really about cutting costs so I guess a separate fairing design wasn't in the cards? 🤷🏻♂️
Could that third bike in the middle be a Pan America stripped down road only sport version? I’ve heard of a lot of people that buy that bike, making it into a sport bike for track, etc. That might kill two birds with one stone so to speak regarding the Bronx and the Standard. The Sportster S is way down in sales.
I have to admit that the HDs are very good looking bikes. But, every time I’ve been in an HD dealership I asked why I should buy an HD instead of another brand and the answer has always been the same, “Because it’s a Harley.” If the dealerships cannot give me a better answer than that then I’m not going to even consider an HD. I will not spend that exorbitant amount of money on a bike just because of its name.
I'll be very disappointed if they go to the new CVO style Road Glide. There were two defining factors, at least for me, of a RG; the shark nose and the dual headlights. I think the new CVO style Road Glide looks more like a geezer glide than the Street Glide. It's like they're actively trying to turn it into a Goldwing.
Prepare yourself then, because at least two people in the know have told me it’s happening without a doubt. To be fair, one of them likes the changes though.
I have never seen primer with that much shine.😂😆😉 That flat red they had a few years ago look like red oxide primer. I like the new base color I think it's about time somebody could get something besides black without having to pay extra. Be careful, ride safe.
IMO.... so far, till I see the new paint in person, I will reserve judgement on all but the Red, and Powder Blue (WTF) HDMC has always left much on the aftersale upgrade table. I suspect suspension will be this year the same. Kinda like the camplate-oil pump. What is put in there sucks, but... we have a screaming eagle fix for sumping. (Now the cynic in me believes this is by design. 40k to rebuild vs 80k to rebuild with a superior oil system) This year I will watch for sales. Suspect if it is slow per say early and spring, might be price structure adjustments mid summer. Two big markets near me, DFW & Austin. Used prices are softening. Thanks for the Vid.
Black is their most popular color. We have all been ingrained with a black Harley is what you want. No one wants a grey bike, ok someone will but not most. If you charge a premium for black then you make extra money without doing anymore work. It’s marketing and pricing genius.
Here's my guess for 2024 Street/Roadglides. Standard and Specials will be the same as last year, fairings and engines same, only color changes. Otherwise, they would have changed the 24 Ultra and Road Glide Limited's fairings....right? The ST's get new fairings and infotainment system, and maybe the ST's get a new 117 VVT? Here's a thought, could there be new Ultra/RoadGlide Limited ST's that get the new fairings, infotainment and a 117 VVT? The STD & Specials can't get new fairings and infotainment if the Standard Limited don't....right? What do you think?
I think there a lot of people who still like the classic look. I think the standard will be same and maybe special but at will get the new look and possibly the special. They probably have left over parts to do classic look one more year. I think vvt 117 is entirely possible but they may just wait a year and bring down 121 to the st models.
The only reason for changing the base color is price. Like you said the Billiard Gray looks like a primer with gloss. HD knows that there will be far less buyers choosing the new base color over black. Like the only real CVO is the Whiskey Neat color bike. Only reason for Silver Platinum was so buyers didn’t have a heart attack at price of 50k plus. Coming out with a Silver Platinum CVO is like putting lipstick on a pig. That is not a CVO paint scheme. I’ve heard the new 2024 SG and RG bikes with some of the new upgrades will have price increases of $2000-2500. Just my 2 penny’s worth of opinion. Great vids. Love the channel.
I agree 100%. Most dealerships are having their silver CVO's custom painted just so they stand out and hopefully sell. I had heard rumors prices were gonna drop but I guess I'm crazy for thinking that could have actually been true. Appreciate the love.
Ever price out a gallon of paint for a car or bike? It’s crazy expensive and unless we know HD’s material and labor costs for painting black, there’s no way we can say it’s just a way to charge more. HD’s Vivid Black has always been a beautiful color with lots of depth that looks premium. Everything in the world has gotten more expensive in the last 3 or 4 years and I’m betting that the cost of black paint also had a huge increase.
Billiard is only a reference to the fact that billiard balls colors never contain metal flake, pearl, or reflectiveness. It's a flat color, just not in texture, its glossy.
Hate the Billiard Grey, hate that you have to pay for black, all their bikes are ridiculously priced anyway. Harley is it's own worst enemy in my opinion. Studies show their core customer base is aging out and they aren't doing anything that attracts new / younger riders.
At least now with Black being an up charge maybe the Sea of Black Harley’s will get a few dots of another color. Not a fan of Black bikes down here in Florida, anything that deflects the heat is a better option.
Ya know I been looking at the 1400 or so 2024 Harleys posted to Cycletrader in some not so inspiring "gotta have it" colors and kinda think the changes are not gonna be a big deal. Maybe the ST models get some of the CVO features and of course maybe, hopefully, a couple of colors that pop but that's about it. I'm done hoping and looking for that matter. I'll keep my 12 year old paid for 40k something Street Glide that rides like an easy chair to me. Enjoyed the conversation.
I have a 2023 CVO. If people thought sumping problems were bad, just wait for the electrical problems that await with the new platform. Plus, none of the bikes will go over 100 from the factory. Harley has a real problem on their hands.
I prefer black. As an exercise in listening to their customers perhaps HD can offer a couple of models in black and grey at no cost allowing customer choice to help HD hear their costumers.
1st No chrome trim ( chrome is out for limited or chrome will be modified ones ?), 2nd pay more for black when ( at least in South Florida ) you have old new stock 2022/23 ?no way. I waiting all 2023 to buy a RG limited ( I don’t like any color from 23 and missed the 22 Apex ( last good color), but 24 didn’t started with good colors ( red rock is an orange brick ) . Hope they launch more RG limited on 1/24
I think it's asinine that they're charging for black now. I honestly think, they're cash grabbing on it. Either they're attempting to making money on their black bikes that they've been painting for years, or they're trying to push people towards getting other colors. Either way, it's a pretty poor marketing choice. The billiard grey is way too primer colored for me. The gunship grey was good as it was a little darker. This brighter grey? It's a primer color that's they gave a clear coat. Excited to see what's different other than fairings in the line up but man, HD is making some weird moves.
I think everyone is going to agree about the black paint. HOW does it make sense to do that?? Also the Gunship color was great until you saw it on ever single model they made then it got played out. I'm curious if the touring bikes got the rest of the updated body or just the fairing? They are doing weird things for sure.
Glad I got my 2023 FXST in BLACK...The V-Rod should come back with their new liquid-cooled motor. I got my 2023 FXST model in vivid black in April of LAST year and I am hearing that color now is extra, My 2023 which has been UP GRADED to a 119 C.I. Screamin Eagle Stage 3 and ishe is Black. I had drag bars and an aluminum intake manifold installed on mine, and had my dealer do that before taking her home. I did this up grade because she was in 3 times with a nagging rocker box leaks 280 miles-600 miles... so I got a discount on the stage 3, I said they are in there so do it. they put her on the dyno and found a bad transmission & they installed a new one. told my dealer that she had a howl down shifting at 3rd to 2nd at lowest RPM. 3 times that she was in to fix an oil cooler and a minor rocker box leak... WELL, I wish I had been wrong. I had asked them to run her while in the the prior warrenty work and they did not believe me. Guess this up grade was a blessing because the trans blew while on the dyno while finishing the stage 3 job. Now at 618 miles she will be as a new with the top end (119 C.I.)and a new transmission. Thanks for SHARING. Stay in the wind.
I think they are called billiard because there is no metallic or pearls in billiard ball paint. Another item removed yet a premium has to be paid. That's all I've seen since my 17, more things removed and higher premiums. Charging a premium for vivid black which has no metallic or pearls in the paint is ridiculous imo.
That's not a Pan America, you are mistaken young man. My guess it's possibly a CVO Road King or some version of anniversary edition for it's 30th anniversary. Vivid black is just a "me too" HD aka look I have one to.
Here the RKS with the now extra $765 for vivid black just keeps costing $37,750.00! There will only be a gray one underneath for $765 less that is very ugly. In short...they are not getting cheaper as a dealer here in holland dropped told me 2mnd ago!
@@daoudmh1It’s a beautiful color. I was looking at the Road King in that color. I am just knocking the name. With all the talent at Harley Davidson why copy the pool table industry?
Those Indian wannabe fairings are causing front end lift on the Streetglide at speeds over 90 mph thus causing death wobble so HD as a fix is reprogramming the ECM to further limit top speed and implementing a strap and ballast to the front end. Way to go HD you always take one step forward and two steps back.
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Black shouldn't be an upcharge, just an option. It's a money grab in my opinion.
100% agree
I agree. Upcharge for a multi tone scheme.
I don’t think it’s a money grab. Unless you know the material cost and labor involved, there’s no way one would know if it’s a sneaky way to charge more for black paint. Everything in the world has increased in price over the past 3 or 4 years including paint.
If they make 1000 of the base color, and 200 of the other colors…. Then they have to charge more for the other colors. That’s how it works. Black just isn’t the base color anymore.
@@Jim_Berrylol, I don't think you know hd very well.
I do not want a black bike even if it’s the cheapest option. It doesn’t appeal to me, too inconvenient to maintain. I get that it was to show off their craftsmanship but newer customers want practicality.
15 grand for that Softail standard on primer gray without a passenger seat and a good headlight is a CRIME.
Not to mention a useless 3 gal tank
Are you sure that’s a Pan America back there? Could be a “Bronx” 🤔. I do think you’re right with the PA Standard tho, could be rolling out the PA with the 975 Rev Max engine 🤔. That’s the vibe I got watching Laidlaw’s Video this morning. He also went over price changes for this year and a fair chunk of them had a price drop.
The Bronx would be sweet !!
I agree, I'm thinking it COULD BE the 975 Pan American but I'm more inclined to say it's the Bronx.
Pan Americans have the two low slung road lamps mounted on the radiators, I don't see them on that 3rd bike...
I did look sorta short like a bronx
I for sure think the touring models need inverted fronts as you say and go to the monoshock. And still seeing halogen lights on the carryovers. Defiantly no excuse for that in 2024.
The billard gray is seen with a good amount of professional tables nowadays. Growing up my dad would play in some pro tournaments and the halls had red and gray tables for the serious players while the drinkers got the green tables
I hate that they did the FLHCS with the Alpine Green only on the chrome. Not the blacked out option. Sucks. That green is pretty sweet.
Personally I'm not a fan of gray. I think they should offer the gray and the black at the same price and then maybe charge extra for other colors. I do like the changes they made to the fairings. I think they left the front end like it was so that is one of the upgrades you get by choosing the CVO.
The only good gray color was the confederate version
i like the billiard grey ... that's a base model bonus if you ask me.
i like that they change up the paint options , but getting a new base model color is like a breath of fresh air.
nothing extra for cool fuel on a hot day ? , comon, let's hear it for the billiard grey.
@@RulgertGhostalker I don't care that they offer it. The more colors the better actually. Everyone is different as seen here. I do wish they still offered the black at no extra charge. For me the gray is a no go. I think you will see a lot of these available being the standard color.
Thanks for the reliable info. You always have better content than other channels. Have you given any more motorcycles away lately?????? Why, all of a sudden is Harley changing for their flagship colour black???????????
I think Harley Davidson for the 2024 model year, is going to be going back to its roots when they had the Gray tone bikes back in the early 1900s. If you look at the color of the lettering on the tank, it's almost an exact match for what they did back then. I think it's just a style change that they're trying to go for the a couple years, maybe.
Harley can say what they want. Seems to me it’s another way to milk customers as black is by far the most popular color.
The two front bikes are CVO’s, relook at the grey CVO you showed, same mirrors and crash guards.
Pay for black paint.Whats next charge for air in tires?
LOL best comment I've read all day. Hopefully at least its that fancy helium air.
I'm surprised you didn't mention that there's no chrome option for the Ultra Limited and the Road Glide Ultra. I was ready to buy a 2024 Ultra LImited, but I wanted chrome -- plus I don't like any of the Ultra color options (except maybe Blue Burst). I'll have to wait until Jan 24th to see if they have anything I want this year.
I definitely prefer chrome on the ultra limited.
From looking at the picture, the 3rd bike in the back is not a Pan America, the turn signals are in the wrong location.
Same mirrors and wind screen though.
I thought the same thing when I seen the mirrors on that last bike.
Black is no longer standard as black is a "hot color" and everyone buys black harleys as they are cheapest.
It makes sense that the grey is standard color. I mean its primer!
I'm on a Low Rider ST and will jump to a Road Glide when it gets the inverted front. Will be a bit disappointing if it gets the fairing but not the inverted forks.
I think you might still get the inverted front forks on the ST and CVO models, just not the Special/Standard bikes. That’s pretty consistent with what they’ve been doing so I am not that surprised even though I was hoping to see it throughout the lineup and completely agree that it’s time.
Don't you think they would have changed the Ultra's also?
I'm so glad Harley made it easy for me. 1.) I'm keep my 2010 Heritage, and never trading it in. 2.) I will never go buy a 2024 and newer Harley. My cut-off is 2023.
Great video Blair.
I think HD have sunk to a new low charging extra for everyone's favorite color. Black.
I can hear their thinking now, " Everyone buys the basic no extra black paint. Let's make an ugly grey our base color, and make more $$$$ charging extra for black."
One quick suggestion, you should adjust your mike boom, so you don't have to look around it to see your camera. Peace.
the 2024 pan am special on the website clearly has a new "1250" sticker on the fairing which to me says that they are making the standard a smaller displacement and hopefully cheaper/lighter or else there is no reason to put that on there if they are all the same, although I don't know how much weight they can shave off. It would be awesome if they could get it down closer to the weight of a tenere 700 but I don't think that's possible.
I think that was the hold up last time in not doing the 975 model that "leaked" was the weight. I agree if they could get it down to KTM890 weight even would make the Pan Am a VERY capable bike. I really hope you're right but I think HD has something else in store for the PA.
@@throttleblip9854 I'm actually excited to see what they do with it
I have one other comment and one question for you. Comment number one I believe the traditional batwing and shark nose fairing will be back for 24 either as a standard or a special or both something tells me they have a lot of parts laying around and they will not totally do away with it for those who also don’t like the new styling. My question is will they come out with a 139 cubic inch motor for a bagger type race bike that will be sold in limited numbers?
The Limited, Road Glide Limited, RG3 and the Tri Glide still come with traditional fairings. I’d say those bike would eat up any remaining inventory. They also plan years in advance for these transitions so I’d imagine numbers aren’t crazy.
That Sport Pan Am would be amazing. I haven’t heard about that but doesn’t mean it couldn’t be true.
The fact that the 135 just came out this year I’m skeptical about another even bigger engine but again doesn’t mean it can’t happen. I’ve seen kits that go all the way up into the 150’s so we know it’s possible to do.
Black should be the base color.
As for the new models: I think the road glide and street glide will get the fairings like the cvo’, perhaps with less sophisticated back sides and gages but with the large infotainment screen. Also, maybe the ST’s get the inverted front end. Although my opinion is that HD should upgrade the suspension of all touring models to the level of the new cvo’s.
And the Pan America standard probably will get a smaller revolution max engine since that’s where the big growth is in the adventure market. 800 or 900 cc.
The new gray reminds me of the OG early Harley Davidson bikes.
In your opinion, what do you think they’re gonna offer as far as engines on the street and road glides and specials??
I couldn’t get an answer from two dealerships….CVO’s normally have a bigger motor so what will be the base vvt motor size???
Guess I can call my 23 Street Glide standard a classic now. Its even black at no extra charge. lol I like the CVO Road Glide, but to slap a new fairing on an old horse is not going to make me want to trade. Waiting for the launch.
i like the billiard grey ... that's a base model bonus if you ask me.
i like that they change up the paint options , but getting a new base model color is like a breath of fresh air........nothing extra for cool fuel on a hot day ? , comon, let's hear it for the billiard grey.
Pan am 975? HD bronx? To be announced this year?
Maybe 117 standard in the special and the 121 in the st models
this year is going to be a make / break for my choice for my next bike as I am in the market. Paying extra for a solid color is a bit much, and hopefully some of the CVO elements/tech/etc filter down. If its simply a fairing change and not changes to the suspension, tech or comfort points, and increased cost (for paint and no real upgrades) I may look at the leftover market, but there are too many other options out there.
I have a new 23 Roadglide ST and love it.
i like the billiard grey ... that's a base model bonus if you ask me.
i like that they change up the paint options , but getting a new base model color is like a breath of fresh air.
nothing extra for cool fuel on a hot day ? , comon, let's hear it for the billiard grey.
i bet you you wouldn't think that if the base color was black again next year.
i am hoping for some CVO elements filtering down also.
the VVT, the lighter weight moves....good stuff there;
but not the stroker crank, that was a bad move; the bikes exhast valves open before the fuel has fished burning soon enough as it is ... i would rather see the 131 bore on a 4" stroke CVO.
i saw that 4.625" and blew a gasket....i have been bitching about failure to observe flame front speeds for years.
Im hoping it's the bronx rolling at the back! It's time for harley to introduce it, and start competing in that segment of the market. Plus, it'd be dope to see it racing in the super hooligan class in motoamerica.
I agree 100% but when I zoom in I can see the familiar PanAm windscreen 😐
As far as inverted shocks. My 1997 Valkyrie came with them stock.
Completely ridiculous on their part to start charging for what has always been their standard paint color. I’m not a fan of the Billiard Gray or Black honestly. I can’t understand why every year I wait like some school kid for them to come out with some great color options, and every year I end up disappointed. This is something they just can’t seem to get right. I really think the Motor Company has become caught up putting too much stock in the people sitting at desks and not getting out and talking to their consumers about what they’d like to see!
DId the Ultra limited go back to the 114?
Pan America CVO, the standard PA is gone. The Touring bikes are getting 117 VVT.
Ooooo, exciting! The grey is an odd change. My guess is it is cheaper, like you said it looks like primer, so thus it becomes the new base color.
Great video, as always. I was looking at what's on the site, and some things got me thinking. For sure, changes are coming. Some colors are listed but not visible. I hope the changes that are coming are for the better and not some tacky stuff. Billiard Grey only looks good on black, PERIOD! 👊😎✌️
Poor old softail standard is a no show on the Australian Harley sites.
NO! Say it isn't so. I guess the Street Bob is now your cheapest conventional v-twin. That's crazy to me.
@throttleblip9854 Yep $16800 US ride away .
BUT you can buy a plastic fugly Nighster. Man just buy used. Plenty of low mile change of mind bikes about at decent prices and you dont take the depreciation hit.
I’ve seen a lot of pool tables with grey felt, maybe that’s were they get billiard grey from?
I think we will see a midsize ADV category Pan America. Probably the 975cc engine this was gonna be in the Bronx.
Competitors would be KTM790/890 ADV, Honda TransAlp and/or AfricaTwin, Triumph Tiger900, maybe a Ducati DesertX, etc.
Midsize ADV category is hot right now, HD probably needs to get in on the action.
Grey color goes back to 1907 with the Silent Grey Fellow. Very much a classic HD color.
Light colors on chrome looks like shit, idk. How they didn't see that!
I hope a road glide 3 trike comes with the new faring
It does not sadly. That model is already out.
One of the bean counters got an assignment in paint pricing. In addition to black being an upcharge from gray, there are several pricing tiers for some models, with almost every color being a different price. Was this the case in the past? Dunno, when dealers tack on $1000 for extra setup here, $1000 for market adjustment there .. splitting hundred-dollar bills for the color you want just seems like noise anyway.
Street version of pan am/Bronx kinda thing?
It’s a BS nickel and dime by Harley Davidson charging extra for black. Some bean counter pitched the savings to the CEO and won. I would feel better saying my paint was “ battleship” those suckers were bad ass in WWII. Riding a pool table……no thanks.
The pricing on black is a marketing tool I believe. Nickel and diming the customer once again. They look at the data of how many black bikes sell and some bean counter says "ya know if we just change black to an option color, we'll make $x,xxx,xxx over the previous year." The bikes go up typically $1k a year. They get their $1k increase PLUS color option. Now they can say, "look we got rid of the surcharge!" Like they're doing us a favor. Basically, they just moved the line item. I had a 13 CVO brand new back in the day and the regular limited is now the price of what I paid for the CVO. When payments start reaching mortgage levels, it's time to re-evaluate. I don't think wages have doubled in 10 years, so who do they expect to buy these things?
@@marvinnugent8907the same people who are buying $100,000 pickup trucks ?
@@jamesstafford62 true…
Colors are largely a mess this year, which is rare. The red color should be called regurgitated tomato soup. The blue-gray looks nice, but it’s the only color option that does. Black should always be the default. The gray is already played out - every car manufacturer had that color option last year.
i can't wait till the demo truck hits my town and thanks for the info!
So, the people that paid 40 - 50k for the exclusive CVO fairings are gonna get screwed by Harley?? Why should anybody buy a CVO if that new fairing is going to transfer immediately to the main line Road Glides and Street Glide?
The only thing I can think is that HD was at the 10 year mark since the Rushmore redesign and knew they had to do something. They seem to be really about cutting costs so I guess a separate fairing design wasn't in the cards? 🤷🏻♂️
Black has always been the STANDARD color. Money grab by corporate in my opinion.
Could that third bike in the middle be a Pan America stripped down road only sport version? I’ve heard of a lot of people that buy that bike, making it into a sport bike for track, etc. That might kill two birds with one stone so to speak regarding the Bronx and the Standard. The Sportster S is way down in sales.
I have to admit that the HDs are very good looking bikes. But, every time I’ve been in an HD dealership I asked why I should buy an HD instead of another brand and the answer has always been the same, “Because it’s a Harley.” If the dealerships cannot give me a better answer than that then I’m not going to even consider an HD. I will not spend that exorbitant amount of money on a bike just because of its name.
Smaller cc pan america?
I wish but I don’t think they can get the weight down enough for that one to make sense.
Billiard just means no Pearl in paint.
I'll be very disappointed if they go to the new CVO style Road Glide. There were two defining factors, at least for me, of a RG; the shark nose and the dual headlights. I think the new CVO style Road Glide looks more like a geezer glide than the Street Glide. It's like they're actively trying to turn it into a Goldwing.
Prepare yourself then, because at least two people in the know have told me it’s happening without a doubt. To be fair, one of them likes the changes though.
I'm not a fan of the new RG's face either. Looks alien and transformer, which is what other manufacturers are doing
BOLD NEW GRAPHICS
I have never seen primer with that much shine.😂😆😉
That flat red they had a few years ago look like red oxide primer.
I like the new base color I think it's about time somebody could get something besides black without having to pay extra.
Be careful, ride safe.
Owning a Pan the headlight doesn’t look similar or rider position but u could be right
I’m thinking maybe a Bronx model?
Nice vid
from your last video do we have any idea what the new CVO model might be?
A few people guessed right in the comments. (I can't come out and say bc HD is already mad at me and I don't want to get sued) lol
I figured out what "Billiard" meant in terms of H-D paints a couple of years ago - no candy and no flake, just simple glossy paints.
They should have created their own term for it. lol
Ugh how can you have a performance bagger (ST) without inverted forks? Oh-well I guess I’ll be waiting another year!
IMO.... so far, till I see the new paint in person, I will reserve judgement on all but the Red, and Powder Blue (WTF)
HDMC has always left much on the aftersale upgrade table. I suspect suspension will be this year the same. Kinda like the camplate-oil pump. What is put in there sucks, but... we have a screaming eagle fix for sumping. (Now the cynic in me believes this is by design. 40k to rebuild vs 80k to rebuild with a superior oil system)
This year I will watch for sales. Suspect if it is slow per say early and spring, might be price structure adjustments mid summer. Two big markets near me, DFW & Austin. Used prices are softening.
Thanks for the Vid.
I have a 22 RG and the prices alone are ridiculous…..I love my bike but damn throw us a bone Harley!!!
I was really hoping for an inverted front on the Limited bikes.
Crazy to me they wouldn’t do inverted on every bike at this point.
I hope the Pan America is the 975 model. Hey, we can all dream, right?
Black is their most popular color. We have all been ingrained with a black Harley is what you want. No one wants a grey bike, ok someone will but not most. If you charge a premium for black then you make extra money without doing anymore work. It’s marketing and pricing genius.
Here's my guess for 2024 Street/Roadglides. Standard and Specials will be the same as last year, fairings and engines same, only color changes. Otherwise, they would have changed the 24 Ultra and Road Glide Limited's fairings....right? The ST's get new fairings and infotainment system, and maybe the ST's get a new 117 VVT? Here's a thought, could there be new Ultra/RoadGlide Limited ST's that get the new fairings, infotainment and a 117 VVT? The STD & Specials can't get new fairings and infotainment if the Standard Limited don't....right? What do you think?
I think there a lot of people who still like the classic look. I think the standard will be same and maybe special but at will get the new look and possibly the special. They probably have left over parts to do classic look one more year. I think vvt 117 is entirely possible but they may just wait a year and bring down 121 to the st models.
I really want to go see the new pearl white in person. I've been waiting for the right white to come out...
I saw it yesterday at my local dealership, it is gorgeous!! Tons of flake in it. Made me think about trading my FXLRST in for it.
The only reason for changing the base color is price. Like you said the Billiard Gray looks like a primer with gloss. HD knows that there will be far less buyers choosing the new base color over black. Like the only real CVO is the Whiskey Neat color bike. Only reason for Silver Platinum was so buyers didn’t have a heart attack at price of 50k plus. Coming out with a Silver Platinum CVO is like putting lipstick on a pig. That is not a CVO paint scheme. I’ve heard the new 2024 SG and RG bikes with some of the new upgrades will have price increases of $2000-2500. Just my 2 penny’s worth of opinion. Great vids. Love the channel.
I agree 100%. Most dealerships are having their silver CVO's custom painted just so they stand out and hopefully sell. I had heard rumors prices were gonna drop but I guess I'm crazy for thinking that could have actually been true. Appreciate the love.
Logic right primer as the standard 😂
Ever price out a gallon of paint for a car or bike? It’s crazy expensive and unless we know HD’s material and labor costs for painting black, there’s no way we can say it’s just a way to charge more. HD’s Vivid Black has always been a beautiful color with lots of depth that looks premium. Everything in the world has gotten more expensive in the last 3 or 4 years and I’m betting that the cost of black paint also had a huge increase.
Billiard is only a reference to the fact that billiard balls colors never contain metal flake, pearl, or reflectiveness. It's a flat color, just not in texture, its glossy.
happy newyear brother
Hate the Billiard Grey, hate that you have to pay for black, all their bikes are ridiculously priced anyway. Harley is it's own worst enemy in my opinion. Studies show their core customer base is aging out and they aren't doing anything that attracts new / younger riders.
It is a money-making move. They know people don't want grey and this way the make an extra 300 to 1000 depending on the model.
You are probably right, which makes the decision even more maddening. Just milking what they can from their customers. @@chrismtbhowlett
Looks like a tracker/scrambler, not a Panamerica.
Hard to see on my video but if you zoom way in, same mirrors and wind screen as the pan am
At least now with Black being an up charge maybe the Sea of Black Harley’s will get a few dots of another color. Not a fan of Black bikes down here in Florida, anything that deflects the heat is a better option.
Ya know I been looking at the 1400 or so 2024 Harleys posted to Cycletrader in some not so inspiring "gotta have it" colors and kinda think the changes are not gonna be a big deal. Maybe the ST models get some of the CVO features and of course maybe, hopefully, a couple of colors that pop but that's about it. I'm done hoping and looking for that matter. I'll keep my 12 year old paid for 40k something Street Glide that rides like an easy chair to me. Enjoyed the conversation.
The moves harley is making are hoing to bring a lot of business to indian.
I have a 2023 CVO. If people thought sumping problems were bad, just wait for the electrical problems that await with the new platform. Plus, none of the bikes will go over 100 from the factory. Harley has a real problem on their hands.
I prefer black. As an exercise in listening to their customers perhaps HD can offer a couple of models in black and grey at no cost allowing customer choice to help HD hear their costumers.
Primer Grey, not billiard gray🙄
Thanks for the update
I dont like the gray on anything, Motorcycles, cars, trucks etc, etc but a blend of it with another color would be doable.
Single color paint should all cost the same
Agreed!
1st No chrome trim ( chrome is out for limited or chrome will be modified ones ?), 2nd pay more for black when ( at least in South Florida ) you have old new stock 2022/23 ?no way. I waiting all 2023 to buy a RG limited ( I don’t like any color from 23 and missed the 22 Apex ( last good color), but 24 didn’t started with good colors ( red rock is an orange brick ) . Hope they launch more RG limited on 1/24
I don't like those flat colors on bikes or cars
The switch up for extra charge on vivid Black seems like a complete corporate scam
I think it's asinine that they're charging for black now. I honestly think, they're cash grabbing on it. Either they're attempting to making money on their black bikes that they've been painting for years, or they're trying to push people towards getting other colors. Either way, it's a pretty poor marketing choice. The billiard grey is way too primer colored for me. The gunship grey was good as it was a little darker. This brighter grey? It's a primer color that's they gave a clear coat. Excited to see what's different other than fairings in the line up but man, HD is making some weird moves.
I think everyone is going to agree about the black paint. HOW does it make sense to do that?? Also the Gunship color was great until you saw it on ever single model they made then it got played out. I'm curious if the touring bikes got the rest of the updated body or just the fairing? They are doing weird things for sure.
Glad I got my 2023 FXST in BLACK...The V-Rod should come back with their new liquid-cooled motor. I got my 2023 FXST model in vivid black in April of LAST year and I am hearing that color now is extra, My 2023 which has been UP GRADED to a 119 C.I. Screamin Eagle Stage 3 and ishe is Black. I had drag bars and an aluminum intake manifold installed on mine, and had my dealer do that before taking her home. I did this up grade because she was in 3 times with a nagging rocker box leaks 280 miles-600 miles... so I got a discount on the stage 3, I said they are in there so do it. they put her on the dyno and found a bad transmission & they installed a new one. told my dealer that she had a howl down shifting at 3rd to 2nd at lowest RPM. 3 times that she was in to fix an oil cooler and a minor rocker box leak... WELL, I wish I had been wrong. I had asked them to run her while in the the prior warrenty work and they did not believe me. Guess this up grade was a blessing because the trans blew while on the dyno while finishing the stage 3 job. Now at 618 miles she will be as a new with the top end (119 C.I.)and a new transmission. Thanks for SHARING. Stay in the wind.
I don't think I can bring myself to let Harley Davidson screw me on another bike
500 X is the middle bike in the rear.
I think they are called billiard because there is no metallic or pearls in billiard ball paint. Another item removed yet a premium has to be paid. That's all I've seen since my 17, more things removed and higher premiums. Charging a premium for vivid black which has no metallic or pearls in the paint is ridiculous imo.
That's not a Pan America, you are mistaken young man. My guess it's possibly a CVO Road King or some version of anniversary edition for it's 30th anniversary. Vivid black is just a "me too" HD aka look I have one to.
I want to see a bagger with a bigger revmax , say a 1.6 litre fark that be sweet
Black should be standard. End of story!
Here the RKS with the now extra $765 for vivid black just keeps costing $37,750.00! There will only be a gray one underneath for $765 less that is very ugly. In short...they are not getting cheaper as a dealer here in holland dropped told me 2mnd ago!
My guess is the new Pan America will be a base 975 version and I agree with you, I don't see the inverted forks on the touring models.
Not happening, 975 PA was shelved.
“Billiard” paint for Harley means soft gloss colors with no metallic
They need an original name. lol
I don’t want to feel like I am riding a pool table.
@@jagjr6772 LOL. In all honesty, I have a Billiard Blue Road Glide Special and I always get compliments on the color.
@@throttleblip9854 I agree but the word
Billiard has a cool factor to it I guess lol
@@daoudmh1It’s a beautiful color. I was looking at the Road King in that color. I am just knocking the name. With all the talent at Harley Davidson why copy the pool table industry?
The price of black? Supply and demand. They have the supply that you demand so you will pay it.
Those Indian wannabe fairings are causing front end lift on the Streetglide at speeds over 90 mph thus causing death wobble so HD as a fix is reprogramming the ECM to further limit top speed and implementing a strap and ballast to the front end. Way to go HD you always take one step forward and two steps back.