Calvinism Unconditional Election Debunked with One Illustration
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Calvinism debunked with one illustration regarding the false doctrine of Unconditional Election applied to real life, husbands and wives and families. TULIP is the 5 points of Calvinism, all of which are false doctrines of devils that mischaracterize our Heavenly Father and the good news of the Gospel.
James Lowrance RUclips Channel: / @jameslowrance5009
Follow Faith on Fire on Facebook: / yourfaithonfire
#JesusIsLord #Calvinism #UnconditionalElection #FaithonFire
Only Satan can influence Christians to tell people that God has denied them the ability to repent instead of telling people to repent and put their faith in Christ Jesus. So sad to see😢
Have you ever read the book of Romans, chapter 1. The Lord seals them in their reprobate mind. God gives repentence, the person must respond, it's when they reject Christ and their SIN basket is full, you will be sealed.
@@klausmkl. Yeah, I read Romans. Have you? God “gave them over” to what they WANTED TO DO!! They suppressed the truth in unrighteousness lest they be saved!! This time , read it in CONTEXT!
@@johndisalvo6283 Ive read the whole book many times. I did not even respond to you. You come off as a spiritual know it all. What did i say to offend you? You have to read the whole book of Romans in one sitting, takes an hour.
My Dear Brian Calvinism and sex abuse of women and children go hand in hand and any one who puts a Christian button on that is learning disabled
It just shows us the work we have to do in demonstrating Jesus Christ
This gave me a good laugh. Thanks for having the best humor channel on RUclips.
Congratulations! This video will be refuted on an edition of Radio Free Geneva on the Dividing Line!
🥳
Very generous of Dr. White to assist in the growth of competing channels! We appreciate you guys helping us to spread the word about the errors of reformed theology! God bless!
Woop woop, go Dr. White!
@@a.k.7840
If you really believe Calvinism or reformed theology was refuted or shown to be in error with this video, you're truly the one in error.
@@TheJpgr1958 not just this video. Divine revelation refutes calvinism. We're not even trying to refute it here. We're trying to convince others of the truth that it's been refuted.
What you're going to see from James White is what he always does: strawman, ad hominem, question begging and debate tactics designed, not to get to the truth, but to keep his audience on his side. He's going to aid in growing this channel by using Radio Free Geneva to expose his audience to this material and thereby increase the reach of this channel. Calvinism is on its way back out, with more and more channels popping up to show the world it's errors.
Listen, I know there are many respected preachers today and in church history who were Calvinists. I know many people reading this have family and friends who are Calvinists. Me too. And I think in many cases they are born again believers in Jesus Christ.
That said, I think Calvinism is a blasphemous doctrine that makes God into the author of evil, and removes his love for humanity.
I respectfully disagree
I don’t believe Calvinists are saved at all, how can one be saved and totally change God’s Word 😢
No, they need to “read” the truth with open eyes, hearts and minds.
I pray for my Calvinist neighbour, she stopped coming over because, I guess I confuse her, I’m so in love with Jesus and God has Blessed me so many times, this really does confuse her, she even said to me, “ how are you so Blessed❔God has done so much for you” and I never saw her again, avoiding me like a plague, literally 😢
To totally twist our loving Fathers own Breathed Words is blasphemy and I really don’t believe they’re saved, period 🫣
Pray for them, I am🕊️
Blessings from Australia 🇦🇺🫂🙏🏻
MacArthur is mean and judgemental and all the Calvinist follow him and adore him and are viciously mean and condemning. When you confront them with the scriptures they bring one of their own and twist it into something false.
@@OkieAllDay I too have friends and relatives in Calvinism. They are good Christian people until they fall away from God. We must let them know in a nice way if possible. I use email to give them the information and supporting scriptures. After that it's up to God to help them. We do our job and God must help us out of this difficult situation.
One of my (many) complaints against Calvinism is that its adherents seem to be deceptive on purpose. They will preach (or speak) as if free will is true, but secretly believe that people have no real choice for salvation - all that matters is if you are one of the lucky few that God wants to save.
What a bunch of kooks
So true! I watched a clip from John MacArthur today trying to explain why Calvinism and predestination and unconditional is completely true and how foolish any Christian is that disagrees. He said God already determined who will be saved. He went on about how it is not because your neighbor is stupid and you are so smart that you are a believer in Christ but your neighbor is not a believer. He said that is because God did not choose that person for salvation. Then he literally had the audacity to say that if your neighbor is not saved we should pray, and pray and pray that God would show mercy to that neighbor and send the Holy Spirit to convert them. What? He just got done saying who is saved or not saved is purely up to God determined from before time began, so what difference is prayer going to make? None according to Unconditional Election but now MacArthur says we can pray and maybe God will intervene and change His mind. He is all over the place with inconsistencies and yet there are people who praise him for his 50 years of ministry and think he is just one of the best pastors ever. Nope!
@@faithonfireministries Calvinists have to be double minded because Calvin's god is also double minded.
@@faithonfireministries Great point. Yeah, Johnny Mac is one of the most obviously inconsistent preachers out there.
Plus, if a person chooses not pray for their lost friends it was only because God ordained that they not do so (in the Calvinist system). Seems like a great excuse to not do anything - "I guess it wasn't God's will for me. Otherwise, He would've ordained it."
thats because you do not understand calvinism... in fact that belief that a calvinist can't preach to everyone because only the elect are saved is a matter that spawned the Marrow controversy
no one knows who the elect are... we are to preach to everyone equally, God does the saving, not the person
"Calvinism did not start with John Calvin." - Calvinist
"That's right. It started with Satan."
Could you be more specific about what Satan started. I don't understand what you mean by "Calvanism".
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, THOUGH HE WERE DEAD, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Calvinists, BELIEVEST THOU THIS?
Calvinist: 'No......make me alive first'
@@AbBowhunter Yeah about that - how did you miss the point where the DEAD can believe by the way? 😭
@@AbBowhunter Deflection? You couldn't even respond with a rebuttal or answer the statement to begin with. A deflection is only necessary when one is cornered - Like you just were and so you went on a tangent - rather than answering how the DEAD can believe, you instead tried to label this post as a 'non lucid conversation'
No surprise, you Calvinists plug your ears and go with the 'blah blah blah, you are wrong and Calvinism is right', without ever attempting to vindicate their claim, kindergarten level argument.
Duh. That is what God does via the Holy Spirit. While you were DEAD HE makes you alive!
We are DEAD until we believe! And we CANT believe until God gives us faith to do so by His Grace!
Read Ephesians 2:1-10 esp v 8-9
“For by Grace you have been saved through Faith. And this is not your own doing; it is a gift of God (grace), not a result of WORKS, (your own will/choice) so that no one may boast.”
Blessings friend, Melea
@@meleathomson8757 The entire point of that verse was that the dead CAN believe - and man is dead until he believes, correct (Ephesians 2:8-10)
Not the other way around - You aren't made alive BEFORE you believe the Gospel (which of course Calvinism posits)
Every man has faith - Ephesians 2:8-9 states that grace, salvation is the gift of God. There is not a single verse that states that man cannot believe, in fact, the exhortation to BELIEVE the Gospel is often repeated over and over and over again. You'd think that man could believe was obvious enough just off of that.
@@THEGOSPELISFOREVERYBODY we agree I think. That our salvation is a gift of God by grace. Via the faith He gives is so that we may repent in belief. Not our choice. But really you can follow whoever you wish. I’m solid in that God is sovereign over all of me and my life. Or He isn’t Sovereign. You can’t have both.
When I was like 13 I used to watch all these discernment ministries all the time and you could basically say I was a Calvinist/Cessationist without knowing it because I thought everything they said was right but as I’ve grown up and started reading the Bible I’ve dusted my shoes off to discernment ministries because they taught Calvinism and all this stuff. Once again sir, thank you for sharing these videos.
God is sovereign
Either he knows and directs all .... Or he doesn't
You are approaching reprobate status 😥
@@toolegittoquit_001 I’m against Calvinism/Cessationism because it is another cult disguised as Christianity just like Jehovah’s witnesses and Mormonism. I’m against Calvinism, deal with it.
@@toolegittoquit_001 Did he direct Adam to eat after saying DON'T EAT of the fruit thus contradicting his own directive?
You are approaching blaming God for your sins and calling him a liar by saying one thing and doing another.
@@THEGOSPELISFOREVERYBODY so in the beginning He didn't know what Adam would do and yet the Bible tells us that he did. So we're going to believe your logic over the creator? Let's ponder on this one question while reading Job 38....
@@daviddeck1974 He knew what Adam would do - That's called Foreknowledge.
FORCED knowledge on the other hand is what Calvinists claim: That God MADE Adam eat and ordained the fall of man.
Ponder over that while reading Jeremiah 19:5, 32:35 where God says that he cannot be tempted with sin and never commanded iniquity.
Hi Brian. This is such a perfect illustration! Thank you for this. God is a good Father and this completely debunks Calvinism. He does not want any to perish.
It is a strawman argument
I would love for you to read 2 Peter chapter 3 in its actual context. It might challenge your traditions to do so, but I promise it’s glorifying to God Himself when we handle his word with diligence.
@@BR-lp6rf what about it
@@koriclaypool9548 yep! The whole argument is fallacious. The only ones who go along with this show that they don’t even know what Calvinists actually believe.
My favorite is when they bring up JOB! What about job they ask? God permitted Satan and limited Satan! Ridiculous!!
Hey Brother just wanted to give you some information. Dr White posted this video on Twitter and said he was going to respond to it on Alpha and Omega. Just wanted to let you know in case you see a in flux of angry comments on your video from Calvinist. He did this to one of my videos and and it really helped the view count. I’m praying the Calvinists that watch it will be challenged to rethink what they believe! Blessings
Thanks for letting me know. Much appreciated!
What a great analogy Brian…thanks!!! You’re right…the Calvinist god plays both roles of God and Satan…so in essence…no real Satan if God does all the determining of who’s saved and who isn’t .
Satan has a purpose in Calvinism - He's the fall guy, the scapegoat.
@@THEGOSPELISFOREVERYBODYLol
@@THEGOSPELISFOREVERYBODY Here’s something funny too…if I was to say that the name of the scapegoat is actually Azazel…most believers would have no idea what I’m saying!!! Lol
@@THEGOSPELISFOREVERYBODY there's no point in a scapegoat when everyone is perfectly obedient just like a Barbie doll.
I really appreciate it that you gave a brother in Christ the shout-out
Terrific and terrible! Wonderful illustration. Sad that it's fatalism at its finest. 😢 God bless.
Calvinism is the doctrine of a man , they need to read the book of Jesus, Jesus Christ is always open to anyone, anytime, all you have to do is ask , believe and follow Jesus, praise Jesus Christ, praise God ❤️
Amen!
You have no idea his name wasn't actually John Calvin.
@@MariusVanWoerden Protestants can’t even get his name right.
@@MariusVanWoerden Jehan Cauvin
@@MariusVanWoerden so why NOT use the name he went by when he was in Geneva?
Good one Brian! I do believe Calvinism is an attack on the very character of God. If I’m wrong, I pray the Lord shows me otherwise, but I don’t think so. 🙏
Calvinism is 100% an attack on the character of God.
You're not wrong Brother. It's another gospel: God in eternity past randomly chose some to be irresistibly coerced into turning to Christ...consequently all others have been arbitrarily preordained to reject Christ all their lives & they can do no other... that's not the gospel.
@@paulpowell6418 Really, how do you figure, Powell?
@@paulpowell6418 In your theology, since God predestines everything, he must also then be the author of evil, thus being an attack on his character.
True or false?
@@paulpowell6418 False? Then how did a being without choice and will DISOBEY and eat the fruit when told not to? Do you not realise that such a being would simply be a programmed robot, unable to disobey?
Or you don't have a reason for the fall, really?
The example you gave just proved my point: You Calvinists literally think that the fall of man is God's fault for placing that tree in the garden.
Got ya, Powell. Thanks for proving my point that Calvinism is an attack on the character of God.
I believe this begins from an improper understanding of Calvinism; there is an overlooking of the total depravity of the TULIP. The analogy assumes goodness in man, but Calvinism asserts that man is totally depraved. He will not choose God in his free will, and that is evident all over creation and history. Ephesians 2 begins with an introduction to our sin-inclined nature. Yet, God can been clearly perceived (Romans 1). Man has condemned himself to hell through his own decisions and free will. So how is it that man can come to faith in God and receive salvation? Through the enactment of the Holy Spirit: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not of your own doing; it is the gift of God." Ephesians 2:8
I encourage you to make irenic statements about what you disagree with and not make a misinterpretation of that which you don't agree.
The analogy does not assume anything about man other than he is to obey Ephesians 5: 1 which commands us to imitate God. I defined unconditional election as taught by Calvinists and since God is the Creator of all people made in His image, and we are to imitate God, I illustrated what that would look like if a man was to start a family with his wife and predestinate and unconditionally elect the winners and losers before they were born. The illustration is absurd, proving the absurdity of Calvinism to paint such a blasphemous and unbiblical depiction of the one true living God.
@@faithonfireministries Man has chosen his portion. God has saved a remnant from their own wickedness.
Adam had attained his cheif end in his beginning: he walked with God in the garden. And yet, he still sinned against him out of his free will. Man is incapable of "being imitators God" without the divine intervention of the Spirit.
You said "their own wickedness" but this would imply God is not involved but in Calvinism God determined their wickedness along with everything else, as that is how they define God as being "sovereign." As for your next faulty statement, you seem to be implying that man has a non-free free will which is nonsense. Scripture is clear, God's grace and power unto salvation is not given to a man until he believes in Christ by faith. Calvinism falsely teaches the opposite of Romans 1: 16, that man cannot believe in the Gospel until he is regenerated, but Scripture is clear that believing in the Gospel of Christ results in the "power of God unto salvation" in Romans 1: 16 and therefore belief (faith) comes first resulting in regenerations second per God's Word and God does not lie and there is no lies in His Word, so Calvinism is demonstrably Biblically false and backwards regarding faith and salvation.
@@faithonfireministries Plase read through and study the TULIP to better understans this. You clearly have misconceptions that have answers if you look hard enough.
Man not being able to believe the gospel before regeneration is the truth. Man does not have the capacity for good outside the grace and common grace of God. The new testament is clear that it is by grace that we have been saved. And this is not a result of our own works. You've used very weak scriptural arguments that are taken out of context and haven't given proof for a lot of your claims.
As to the predistination of some going to hell and others to heaven: Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
Romans 9:21
It's not an easy doctrine to swallow, but praise God he has appointed us to be fellow heirs of salvation.
That was a spectacular example of what the character of our Father in heaven is pictured by Calvinist beliefs.
"Let's see if that works in real life". Meaning you want to bring down the mind and will of Almighty God to your own human level of understanding and desires. Fail.
So you're telling me we can't judge what is good and evil? So the Bible was written so we understand and know the character of God yet you're telling us that we can't know the character and love of God to be able to judge God whether he's good or not? This is total folly on your part. Then we should never throw anyone in prison because we don't have the ability to decide what is good or bad behavior.
Super good illustration of a very well-made point! Thanks for the very kind shout out. I'm already getting new subscribers today because of it. Today I posted my last vid in a mini-series about Calvinism's false predestination doctrine. I think it will be the best one of them but it's about 44 minutes! The others were a bit draggy at certain points, in spite of only being 20 to 24 minutes each. My wife liked yours today, a great deal too. I actually get excited when you have new vids posted! Keep those wonderful teachings coming! Blessings to You and Your Family! 🙏✝
Thanks James! I hope a lot of people go over and discover your channel. I'm looking forward to your video posted today and I'm going to go watch it for myself in a few minutes! Blessings to you and your wife!
James, I don’t see that new video from today on your channel. You may want to check on that. I’ll keep my eyes open for it. God bless you!
@@faithonfireministries Brian my wi-fi kept going off yesterday, so I would re-connect. This went on until late, so I went to bed, only to find the next morning that the video didn't finish loading because wi-fi went off again. I finally got it to finish this morning. I determined to teach it slow, but I think I should have snapped it up a bit. 🤨
It’s called Grace To A Few, And Probably Not You.
Yep! That is brilliant. Gives me an idea... John MacArthur should rename his ministry, Grace to Few instead of Grace To You.
@@faithonfireministries Grace to You If You’re Lucky.
Perhaps a more accurate mathematical representation of your illustration would be that the couple had 10 children and only lavished the blessings upon one.
Great point you make about Calvinism rendering Satan's role useless. I've asked multiple Calvinists how 1 Peter 5:8 makes sense if team elect and team unelect were already set in stone before creation. Of course, I've yet to hear a solid answer from any of them.
What's amazing is that every Calvinist I ever met are the ones saved for Heaven. I never met a Calvinist that said they were saved for Hell. They have a misunderstanding of predestination.
Ya, and their kids are always part of the "elect"
That's because Jean Cauvin in Geneva didn't understand coupled with his ultra narcissistic vindictive twisted dark heart = dysfunctional mess enforced by the axe or burning stake.
Have you ever met a Christian who believed they were not saved?
😂😂😂😂
I believe once a Calvinist has kids and sees their kids are not going to Heaven, they change doctrines to suit the fact they believe their kids will make it to Heaven
The point about no need for Satan is well taken.
The Bible never says that salvation is unconditional, quite the contrary.
Acts 10:34,35
34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
God accepts people on conditions.
Unconditional election makes no sense. If God so loves the world, how could He predetermine who, in the world, will live with Him in His heaven?
Exactly. The Greek word for love in John 3: 16 is "agape" which is the highest form of love towards mankind, not just towards some of mankind. That love, mercy and grace has been offered to all but God does not force anyone to accept or receive it. He gave freely and He wants us to respond freely. Those who trust in the Lord Jesus Christ will be with Him forever. This life is a test, not a useless exercise in being a bunch of preprogrammed robots for 1 - 100 years before we all enter into eternity in heaven or hell by a Fatalistic god who already determined our final destination before Creation began.
By the way, pagan Fatalism is the default worldview adopted and believed by most everybody regardless of religion or even no religion. It is the "whatever will be will be" worldview and Calvinism models itself after that default pagan view. Christianity is different and true.
@@faithonfireministries exactly.
“What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-”
Romans 9:22-23 ESV
@@1littlefish he does want to. That’s why He gave us rules. 2 things I’ve noticed throughout the OT and NT, obedience is mandatory. If we will not love God above all and love 1 another, we will never enter His heaven. The languages are key. “Believes” in John 3:16 does not merely mean to know that Christ exists, it means to trust Him.
If we trust someone, we obey them. We also need a better understanding of love. To love others does not mean to be nicey nice all the time. It means to care so much we tell them the truth whether they want to hear it or not.
@@1littlefish
God desiring to show his wrath?
You know not what spirit you are of.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that *any* should perish, but that *all* should come to repentance.
{2 Peter 3:9}
Repented from this doctrine of devils.
Great Video Brother. Calvinism to be blunt is INSANE.
Thanks Bri.
I wouldn't call it insane, but dyfunctional. Because of the dysfunction there's higher degree of mental issues and incest/sexual immorality(like 3 "reverends" in a row, that's a pattern not a coincidence.
White literally destroys this example in a matter of minutes.
Nope, I watched it. James White never even played any portion whatsoever of my video for his audience. He spent 40 minutes rambling on lying about me and the video to build a phony strawman argument about Universalism and then he destroyed that strawman. He manipulates his audience to think he is destroying my views but that is just deception. I would destroy Universalism as well, and not need 40 minutes to do it, because it is a heretical view that I have spoken against many times. But James does not want his audience to know the truth. He is professional liar to defend Calvinism.
Baloney Jeff. White is afraid to take on the subject.
James White never does anything in a matter of minutes. I’ve never seen anyone talk so much but say so little.
We may disagree on Eternal Security brother Brian, but we will ALWAYS stand together against calvinism regardless of its current moniker!
Amen brother!
@@faithonfireministries he's not a brother. anyone who doesn't believe in eternal security is not saved. 1 John 5:11. so I don't think its appropriate to say amen to whatever he is saying.
I have few questions:-
1. Was God unjust when he commanded satan to take Job's riches and his children?
2. Pharaoh and Nebuchadnezzar both rebelled against the God of Israel why one was hardened and other was humbled?
3. When God wants everybody to be saved, why was Law not preached to the Gentiles, why were they kept in dark for so long?
3. On what basis Adam's sin is imputed upon us? “Folly is bound up in the heart of a child” (Proverbs 22:15). David says, “Surely I was sinful at birth, / sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Psalm 51:5). “Even from birth the wicked go astray; / from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies” (Psalm 58:3).
4. Why was Paul stopped by the Holy spirit to preach in ceratin province of Asia?
5. If God knew many would go to hell, why did he proceed to create them and put them in exact same situation knowing they would reject him?
He did not command Satan to afflict Job he permitted for Job gave Satan access through fear. "The thing I greatly feared came upon me" Fear is sin. "And the fearful shall be cast into the lake of fire" God may permit something but certainly does not command evil arbitrarily.
About your 5th question, he foreknew everything that would happen with his creation: angels, humans, demons, animals etc. Him creating them doesn't mean he decreed their actions, if he did, sin would have no meaning, to sin is to disobey God while having the ability to not disobey him.
This is so good! Now you need to go after all those wicked premillennial dispensationalist who believe fatalism too!
Is the wife in the illustration the bride of Christ? Who’s the woman?
Excellent illustration: Well presented, easily understood.
God is not a man ...
@@toolegittoquit_001 Are you trying to justify a completely unjust (double predestination etc.) God !? Stil men is made in the image of God, which means we may expect complete righteousness from God in judging people according their moral choice to either accept or reject the offer of salvation in accordance with a changed life.
Isaiah 46
10 I declare the end from the beginning,
and from long ago what is not yet done,
saying: My plan will take place,
and I will do all My will.
11 I call a bird of prey[b] from the east,
a man for My purpose from a far country.
Yes, I have spoken; so I will also bring it about.
I have planned it; I will also do it.
12 Listen to me, you hardhearted,
far removed from justice:
13 I am bringing My justice near;
it is not far away,
and My salvation will not delay.
I will put salvation in Zion,
My splendor in Israel.
Again, thank for you for another good video. I enjoyed the simple illustration explaining unconditional election.
Marvin, I corrected you already on this and you still keep pushing this lie which means you are very stubborn and unwilling to learn and be corrected in Scripture. The father in the illustration is not adopting children but is the biological father. All people are biologically created by God. He is sole Creator of us all. Satan created nobody, only corrupts what God has created. You are confusing spiritual adoption through salvation and the fact that all people are Created by God the Father in the image of God. Stop distorting the metaphor Jesus used in John 8: 44 to push your nonsense that defies basic Bible understanding beginning at Creation.
@@faithonfireministries I can't see the Marvin comment, but I would like to mention that you realize you're putting yourself in the place of the creator and you're implying your logic into His creation. This is fallacy as He has no rhyme or reason to inclination for your judgement towards His desires other than to praise and glorify Him
You quoted Eph 1:3, but not verses 4-5. Check them out.
"Long ago, even before He made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in His eyes.
His unchanging plan has always been to adopt us into His own family by bringing us to Himself through Jesus Christ. And this gave Him great pleasure."
Who is the us?
I don't need to check them out. I know them inside and out. I quoted the verse 3 because that was the relevant verse about all the "spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ" I was speaking about. Since you brought up the verses that follow, know that this is a necessary verse to give context to the ones that follow because it is these spiritual blessings in heavenly places which are predestined by God to be given to all of "us" who are in Christ. These are people who become made new in Christ when we were born again. It does not say in this passage anything about God predestining exactly who or who will not be unconditionally chosen to be Elect unto salvation nor anything about salvation being by Irresistible Grace.
In any event, the word "elect" is in many places in the Bible and always refers to a group of people chosen by God for a mission or purpose, not for salvation. Despite there always being those that answer the call and fulfill the mission there is always in most instances another group within the "elect" chosen people, such as in the nation of Israel or the Gentile nations, who ignore the calling and reject the mission and reject God. That fact eliminates "elect" being defined as people chosen by God to be saved either unconditionally or conditionally. Calvinism hijacks words in the Bible and redefines them to fit their false doctrines.
I completely agree with this and appreciate your faithfulness! Do you have anything that helps logically walk through the scripture and disprove UE biblically? This has been the hardest teaching for me to break down biblically because some of the verses Calvanists use that, while still flawed, are compelling. Can you help?
They have built high places to Baal on which to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I never commanded or mentioned, nor did it even enter My mind.
Jeremiah 19:5 BSB
Jeremiah 18:1-17 is a good read, also
👍 James Lowrance... also don't mind Robert Breaker
Romans 8
28 We know that all things work together[m] for the good[n] of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.
Not only are some going to be saved regardless but some are going to hell regardless that is the horror of a cult.
Once again Brian! Well done. Even my Mule could understand it. (If I had a Mule LOL)
Funny how Calvinists always consider themselves as one of the chosen. They are always desperate to keep themselves convinced that they are chosen, by fighting anything that comes against their Calvinist doctrines. Doesn't work, as they become schizophrenic.
Truth in Love
Yep, well said!
Your incorrect assumption is that God must hate those he has not chosen. And from that assumption you come to the conclusion that God is a monster because he made his sovereign choice that disagrees with what you want to believe God would do. Instead of taking him at his word like in John 6.
No sir! God is not a monster. That is not my conclusion at all. You are writing foolishly as if I am a deceived Calvinist. I am not! It is the Calvinists who say God chooses unconditionally and misinterpret Romans 9 citing vessels of wrath and dishonor, and Jacob I loved and Esau I hated to try to prove that God hates those He has not chosen.
The god of Calvinism is not the God of the Bible. Scripture is my sole authority and I know it well. Calvinism is demonic.
I love the way you teach brother... Thank you for this video,...
I thought to ask you about someone... David Wilkerson... I used to listen to him and Carter conlon and I just really thought they were amazing but for the 13 yours that I listened to them, I didn't know whether I was saved or not... And I just happened to run across a video but David Wilkerson and he was talking about that verse where Jesus says turn away from you those who practice lawlessness for I never knew you..... And his point was that if we are not fully committed to a life-lived for Christ that we're not going to heaven, that we're not saved..... And That really leaves a person feeling like if they have a sin in their life that they're not going to heaven cuz obviously they're not fully committed and we're one of the ones that are going to get turned away..... If you wouldn't mind taking a moment to give me your thoughts on this I would be incredibly grateful 🌹
Thanks for your comment and question. I'm familiar with who David Wilkerson is and have heard some of his prophesy sermons years ago that were put out on RUclips, but I was never really that impressed with him. His take on Matthew 7 is completely off as you described how he interpreted it. That passage from Jesus tells us that there are a lot of unsaved "religious" people out there that believe they can be saved by their own works done "in Jesus name" but it is empty and worthless because Justification is by faith, not by works.
All those who come to believe on Jesus by faith receive the gift of grace which is eternal life. In John 10 Jesus talks about giving those that believe in Him eternal life and no man can pluck them out of his hand nor out of the Father's hand. That is because all who come to faith in Christ from the Jewish nation or Gentile nations all become "one fold" which are His sheep and He is the Shepherd and He knows His sheep. The unbelievers (or those who actually just believe in themselves and in their own self-righteousness) are called sheep too but not of His fold (at least in John 10). Matthew 25 gives a different metaphor, not one during this life but one for the end times judgement in which the goats are separated from the sheep. Goats is the metaphor for unbelievers and Jesus doesn't have a relationship with them and they died in their sins rejecting the gift of grace and they go to hell. The metaphor for believers is the sheep and though they were sinners too, they received the gift of grace through faith (Ephesians 2: 8,9) and they are seen in judgement as having the perfect righteousness of Christ and they go to heaven.
Lastly, If you go over to Rod Saunder's channel called Jew and Greek he just did a video very recently on the life of David Wilkerson. I learned most of what I know about him from watching that video. It would be well worth watching that for yourself. God bless you!
@@faithonfireministries Thank you so much, you just deeply blessed me, I've been so confused about it... I just pray that God blesses you so richly...
One one quick more question, I totally get everything you said but that part where Jesus said turn away from me for I never knew you, you who practice lawlessness which means I would assume practicing sin but what you're saying is it is the sin of unbelief or the wrong kind of belief I should say, they weren't trusting him but they were trusting their works? Is that what you mean and is that what he meant? Cuz when he says those who practice lawlessness to me that sounds like people who called themselves believers but continued in sin... I just want to make sure I understand lol 🌹☺️ I have been trying to get past this for 13 years lol So you're helping me greatly... Words can't even express
I think this passage will help: 1 John 6-10, "6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
As you can see even Christians sin. Walking in darkness is not sinning, but not knowing Jesus as our Lord and Savior by faith. When we get saved by grace through faith, God transfers us from darkness into light and the blood of Christ cleanses us of ALL sins. This is not a license to sin mind you. Elsewhere it is clear that by continuing in sin we will be disciplined by God who wants us to be effective witnesses for Christ and we can't do that if we look and act just like the world does. And further, a born again person is indwelled by the Holy Spirit that convicts us of our sins. That is a feeling of guilt about our sins that draws us to confession and repentance but it is not condemnation. It is Satan that Scripture says is the accuser of the Brethren that wants us to feel hopeless, failing God and useless and even as though we have lost salvation and are now condemned. Nope!
Back on Matthew 7, it comes down to this. Jesus sees their iniquity or "lawlessness" seems to be what your version says. This is sin. Jesus sees their sins because they never received the gift of grace which is forgiveness of sins and eternal life. It only takes one unforgiven sin to be sent away from the presence of a perfectly Holy and righteous God and Jesus sees all their sins. However, for the believers they have received the gift of grace of God and in judgement Jesus will see no sin whatsoever, because they have all been washed away, removed completely and in place of our self-righteousness or lack thereof, will be seen the perfect and Holy righteousness of Christ whom we have trusted for our salvation. This is called "Justification." And "Justification by Faith" is what the Bible teaches is how one is credited as righteous before God taught in the Old Testament all the way through to the New Testament. It has always been that way with God.
@@faithonfireministries This is so kind of you!!🌹 I love the way that you explain things, you make it so clear and I thank you, thank you so much for taking the time, I've been asking this question even on other channels and nobody in the world has answered me lol but you did and I'm forever grateful 🌹🤗 Thank you! God bless you!!🤗🌹🙏🙌
@@faithonfireministries I think what held me in so much confusion was not only the teachers and preachers in error but also things in the Bible like while I forget where in Corinthians but it makes a list of sins that you do and if you do them you won't go to heaven and then in the book of Galatians it's full of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ until you get to Galatians chapter 5 verses 23 and 24, I think that's it... And I'm like wait okay so I'm saved by faith by Jesus Christ but then I read that and I'm like okay which is it? Lol and it would just throw me.....🙄☺️
Thank you again brother in Christ 🌹🤗
Hello Brian! I just want to take the time to congratulate you on the work of the Lord that you're doing through your channel. It's quite evident that the Holy Spirit dwells within you, and your godly character is very notable, which I also find deserving of congratulations. May the Lord bless you and your ministry!
Isnt it interesting that all the illustrations used to deny Calvinism always have to be illustrations not found in the Bible? All the biblical illustrations so clearly teach Gods grace and sovereignty over salvation that they can’t be used in these videos.
We are to emulate God, but not in his sovereignty per se. we also aren’t to emulate God in his omnipotence, etc. this seems like quite the false illustration, pulls the heart strings of some though
What a stupid conclusion, dripping with desperation to defend Calvinism and false all around.
@@faithonfireministries you didn’t address any of what i said, just more emotion, so i guess this is where the conversation ends. I’m more defending Roman’s 8-9, eph 1-2, John 6, etc. than defending Calvin. You’re also completely ignoring the difference between God and man, God calls us to love our enemies, and for Gods purposes, he destroyed his enemies in scripture numerous times, even Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the father until he makes his enemies a footstool, are we to do that as Christian’s? God is holy, what is false is your striving to deny the clear teaching of scripture, and then instead of addressing my point, calling it stupid. That’s the sign of not being able to defend your point with scripture brother.
I explain the video illustration further with lots of Scripture in this follow up video: ruclips.net/video/PrcWGWx0hQk/видео.html
The fact is that it is easy to defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ in Scripture and practically as well by applying God's commandments in how we live our lives. When we apply the doctrines of Calvinism to both Scripture and our lives, it fails both miserably and generates a lot of angry commentary from loyal defenders of Calvinism.
@@faithonfireministries I’m not angry, i have peace about this topic, you were the one who resorted to rhetoric immediately instead of answering. I am also not disagreeing that the gospel of Jesus is defended in scripture, 100% agreed.
The fact is you aren’t addressing my point, and unfortunately i don’t think you will. The illustrations scripture provides are much different and incompatible with the illustration you made. I speak with angry people who believe in the freedom of man’s will in salvation regularly. And pointing out that you think calvinists are angry online isn’t an argument that proves your point, just more obfuscation. There are people in every sect of Christianity who get mad online and try to fight, which makes it an impossible argument to use because it can be “used” against every side.
Gods word is clear, I pray he leads you to the truth on this matter, if not, he is graceful still.
this is starting to sound a lot like universal or conditional salvation....
Nope, not at all! Universalism is false. John 3: 15,16 and Romans 1: 16 and countless other passages prove that believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation and that faith is met by the promise of God to grant the gift of salvation to whosoever believes (Ephesians 2: 8,9).
(Romans 9:16, AVRLE)
“16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that, but of God that sheweth mercy.”
(John 1:13, AVRLE)
“13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
Your illustration is very similar to one an atheist talks about with regard to how he says God is evil for being willing to punish his own son on the cross. How would you respond to that illustration from the atheist? Wouldn't I be a bad father if I severely punished one child to reward my adopted children?
There is no similarity whatsoever. However, I'd tell that Atheist that Jesus Christ is eternal and was God incarnate (God made Flesh) who went willingly to suffer and die on the cross for him and for all of us because of our sins. I'd tell him that Scripture says that God commended His love towards us that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. That is not an act of evil but of the greatest divine and unconditional love possible, and that is the best news you could ever hear and come to realize and believe. That means God loves you too though you are a sinner. That means Christ had you in mind when Scripture says He willingly gave up His life for you, suffered and died on the cross rather than call down angels from heaven to wipe out his accusers. Why did He allow that to happen to Himself? Because that is how much Jesus Christ loves you and wants you to understand that truth so you can return that love freely by believing on Him for your salvation, believing in His death, burial and resurrection, so that one day all believers that trust in Him for salvation will also be raised up to everlasting life with Him in heaven. So, God is the very opposite of evil. God is love. He conquers evil. Satan is evil, sin is evil, and if you choose to side with evil and reject Christ God will give your desire and hell is reserved for Satan, fallen angles and all people who choose hell rather than choose Christ. God wants you to choose and come to faith in Christ. Choices in life always have consequences. One choice has an eternal consequence.
Shouldn't you use a Biblical illustration to refute a Biblical Doctrine?
What a terrible illustration. "Im gonna define whats good and loving and apply it to God and then judge Him by mt standards"
You got it backwards. I applied the Calvinistic view of God and applied it to a man who is trying to best emulate the Calvinistic god he worships and it is driving your Calvinists bonkers! I love it. It gives you something more to lie about, but when you are not making your public defense of Calvinism, privately you must come to grips with how you see God and is it truly Biblical or not. Calvinism is not Biblical.
But that isn't how things work. God is God, we are not. By your logic, then, God must have never commanded His people to kill men women and children, as He did in the OT many times, because God was acting justly, and since we should imitate Him, we might as well slaughter infidels!
But of course you don't believe that, because you recognize God is God and you are not. He can and does do things we cannot. Including saving whom He wants.
@@ranviperand if you have kids and God doesn’t save your kids and they don’t go to Heaven, that’s because of God- according to you. So will you still believe in Calvinists even if it meant your own kids are determined to go to Hell and not Heaven? Or is that when Calvinists change doctrines?
@@Psawyer555 truth doesn't change because of emotions. My children are sinners just like me. My children deserve hell just like me. But God is rich in mercy and has already saved my oldest. He gives children to Christian parents for the purpose of raising Christian families.
I just have one question. Does God’s foreknowledge of future events precede His pre-determination of those events? In other words, does God act before He knows, or does He knows before He acts??
How sad for a believer to become convinced of a doctrine which eventually robs them of any confidence that they are truly loved by God... for certain. Calvinism does that because no one knows who the lucky "elect" really are and nobody living a Christian life knows for sure if they will ever receive the "Gift of Perseverance". They are reduced to living in a state of hoping in their election alone. Rather than having hope in Christ alone.... This is true because the prospect of Evanescent Grace hangs over their head like the Sword of Damocles every day of their life.
@@241Tsunami If you have become convinced of Calvinism, respectfully, please reexamine and reconsider the actual doctrine you claim to believe. What I posted is accurate regarding the doctrine of TULIP regardless of whether they 'teach' it out loud or not.
If it is true, as Calvinism claims, that no man can believe or respond positively, or even claim to love God unless and until God effectually causes them to believe. And this is only by God's eternal, unchangeable, decree from before the foundation of the world, and not the result of their decision. This, then must also be true of those who believe they love God and live as Christians, even for years, many as pastors, who ultimately fall away in apostasy. Their denial is also by God's decree, because he never really loved them.
It's not spoken of often but this is exactly what the claims of Calvinism require. Whatever any man believes about God is only a manifestation of what God has decreed for that moment in time. Their own belief is not evidence of true love of God, it is only evidence of God’s decree... but just like other ‘former’ believers, it may not last until tomorrow…. Also by God’s decree.
Most Calvinists are not aware of this and often tell non-Calvinists “you just don’t understand Calvinism”…. But it is more often themselves who do not understand the unavoidable consequences of this doctrine.
I’d say one would be hard pressed to suggest these prominent former Calvinists didn’t ‘understand’ TULIP. Here are a few recent well known and respected de-converts, the all spent years publicly professing and believing, by God's decree, they were saved, they loved, God and he loved them... BUT if Calvinism is true, God was literally lying to them for his own pleasure and glory.... THAT is a God who cannot be trusted... just like the Serpent suggested to Eve in the Garden.
Tyler Vela, long-time popular Calvinist apologist, now denies Christ
Paul Maxwell, a former long-time associate of John Piper/ Desiring God writer and the author of the book The Trauma of Doctrine, has announced he is no longer a Christian.
Derek Webb, artistic apologist for Reformed theology for 10yrs in his work with Caedmon's and then in his solo albums, now denies Christ.
Joshua Harris, leading Calvinist pastor and author, fonder of Sovereign Grace Ministries, associate of Louis Giglio/’Passion movement’, left ministry and the faith altogether.
All of these people affirmed Christianity and Calvinism for many years... which they also affirmed was by God's decree, just as you do. "Unconditional Election is the Calvinist fundamental premise. However, now they have abandoned their belief. And you must affirm is also only by God's decree. This means their entire Christian experience and testimony was only an episode of Evanescent Grace... their faith was fake.. by God' decree, and they had no idea.
Calvin devised his theory of temporary/ ‘Evanescent Grace’ which teaches that God grants to "faith" some but withdraws it later because he was just messing with their mind for his own amusement and never really loved them anyway. It is the only way to consistently explain those who leave the faith after believing within the parameters allowed by Calvinism.
This means Calvinists are encouraged to worship a God who, in the end, cannot be trusted to love any one individual…personally, certainly not themselves. If he did it to these studied, prominent, trusted, and respected Calvinists, you have no assurance God does not already have plans to do it to you. 🤔
The Calvinist can have no real assurance of their election to salvation because Calvinism does not afford it. All one can do is search for 'evidence' of Christian activity (works) and cling to them like a broken plank form a sinking ship and "hope for the best" because that's all they have.
Comparing cute babies to loving parents with sinners in front a Holy, righteous God? God's love is not some human papering love. God IS love. His love encompasses all His attributes.
Right. God IS LOVE - Which puts in the bin the Calvinist teaching that God loves only some, and hates others predestining them to hell, which is nothing more than FATALISM.
@@THEGOSPELISFOREVERYBODY That is not fatalism, and your understanding of Calvinism is biased. Furthermore, even in your soteriology God still created a world where people will always be damned.
@@rogervincent2092Since God is love and teaches to love your enemies, why does the Calvinist god hate his enemies and chooses randomly to save some but not others?
Your continual ranting on soteriology doesn't even hold up with the TULIP 🤣
@@THEGOSPELISFOREVERYBODY I didn't say that God loves. I said, God IS love, and His love encompasses all His attributes, each attribute administered in a measured, equal manner all in harmony with one another.
@@rogervincent2092Lol, God is love but He doesn't love all. Some gaslighting trick🤣
The core issue with an analogy that is about a human acting like God is that it assumes God is held to the human standard. You could also say God is evil for demanding worship, since after all if the father demanded his 5 children worship him as God he’d be committing grave sin. Humans are not God and God is not a human. But this is obviously false because God is right to demand worship from his creation (as any Christian will agree).
Ephesians 5: 1 commands us to follow God in the KJV rendered in many other Bibles as imitate God. This does not mean to pretend we are God, or to seek worship as God does, but it means to obey God who commands us to be like him which is as in the Greek word "agape" which means a Divine form of sacrificial love expecting nothing in return that God extends towards mankind. We see Agape love towards us written in John 3:16 and Romans 5: 8 and elsewhere. Jesus commanded us to love our neighbors as ourselves and even to love our enemies. God does not command us to hate one another. The only Calvinistic defense I have heard in response to this video illustration without distorting my illustration with strawman false arguments has been the Calvinistic viewpoint that God hates people. He chooses to love a few but literally hates everyone else for His own glory. That flies in the face of Scripture pertaining to us in the age of grace but still that is the most honest argument I have heard from Calvinists so far.
All anyone has to do to debunk Calvinism is to ask a simple question. Did Adam and Eve have a choice in eating of the apple 🍎 in the Garden of Eden or did God choose to make them eat of the forbidden fruit?
@@AbBowhunter Evidently the Calvinist god says 'DON'T EAT, I'll make you do it instead'
AbBowhunter, why don't you just answer the question rather than avoid it and instead comment with the same old and overly used accusatory pride filled arrogant answer Calvinists usually give, which is basically just saying everybody is stupid but Calvinists?
@@faithonfireministries AbBowhunter is like Powell. They nod in moronic obedience to the TULIP god, and enable cognitive dissonance selective blindness mode. The tap dancing champions don't actually have any answers.
Did Paul receive more of a revelation of Christ's Lordship than others? Could Judas have not betrayed the Lord? Did God hate Esau? It's interesting that this "debunking" of Calvinism involved literally zero scriptural references. I understand you guys just don't like it but not liking something doesn't make it false....
This video has much Scripture that inspired it and I did a second part video (the last one uploaded on my channel at the time of me writing this) about is the god of Calvinism the God of the Bible and I went through lots of Bible passages first, and then I showed how they are referenced back to this video. I agree with you that not liking something doesn't make it false. However, Calvinism is false because Scripture proves it is false, not just because I say it is false.
So, what Jesus the omniscient creator said in Matthew 7:13-14 makes Him a morale monster?
I have quoted that passage in Matthew 7 many times in my videos to emphasize the reality of sin and hell. Everything but believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is the wide road to destruction. Jesus Christ is the narrow gate. We enter by grace through faith. So, you ask an odd question that nobody would ask me if they were familiar with my channel.
@faithonfireministries since God is omniscient and declared the end from the beginning, and Jesus is God, and He says ; many will go the broad way, and few enter the narrow gate, God created people knowing they would go to hell. Does that make God a morale monster?
I've watched enough of your videos to know you don't believe that, but you haven't really thought your position through.
I want you to know I'm not being mean, but you need to start with God then reason down to man instead of the other way around.
@faithonfireministries I see you still haven't responded. In case you forgot, let this be a little reminder.
Thanks for the recommendation.
Calvin's god is just another "Trickster god".
He commands the impossible from all for eternal life, yet, he alone completes the command for his Elect, then damns the rest for their disobedience, a disobedience he alone predetermined to begin with.
@@AbBowhunter -- Calvin's God created you involuntarily dead & totally depraved in the womb without free will.
The sinful nature you have, and all of your deplorable wants & sexual desires are the "strings" he uses to FULFILL His divine, immutable decree.
@@AbBowhunter That happens only in your narrative, Calvinist.
@primeobjective5469 - Great analogy. It definitely blew abBowhunters mind from any proper response 🤣
@@AbBowhunter So if man cannot make choices being devoid of will, created a programmed calvo bot, and thus being UNABLE to actually disobey - *then someone had to make them eat that fruit*
Who was this someone?
You don't wanna answer that do ya?
You got no answers to contribute anyway, Calvinist. Stick to your dream that Calvinism is scriptural. 🤣
the Calvinist god is similar to Allah.
Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
Well, if it was predetermined before the foundation of the world, we know that Christ was to the final sacrifice since the foundation of the world.
If mankind was predetermined before sin, what would be the reason God would suffer death on the cross to save those he already predetermined?
It is a flawed logic, and it tramples the Blood of Christ.
We know that the Blood was taught against John MacArthur. It was considered an inert liquid.
This brought controversy in his teaching, so he was said to change his teaching on the Blood.
It is also said that it was a long time ago, and his theology was corrected.
I can not help but see how he would come to this conclusion, being a believer in Calvinest Doctrine.
Well said! And MacArthur even said people can take the mark of the beast and still go to heaven. The Bible clearly says otherwise but based upon his Calvinistic views, I can understand why he would say that. He always chose his Calvinist doctrines over Biblical truth, and in his mind despite the Bible saying otherwise he believes God predestined and unconditionally chose a person to be saved from before time began so certainly that is set in stone regardless of what the person does including taking the mark of the beast. He chose false doctrine over Biblical truth.
Great analogy!
This is a laughably bad argument .
Anyone who is really biblicaly informed and studied on theses issues is not going to find this convincing at all.
I hope everybody thinks this illustration is laughably horrible and absurd, because that was the point in order to show how laughable, horrible and absurd Calvinism is. I just applied Ephesians 5: 1 which commands us to imitate God. So, I showed what it looks like when a man starting a family with his wife imitates God to unconditionally elect the winners and the losers before they are even born just as you claim your god of Calvinism does.
@@faithonfireministriesall it shows is how absurd and ignorant you are, Sir
Hey brother, are you an Arminian or recognize that each of these systems are right in what they assert and wrong in what they deny? Thanks.
Good question. I think some of the doctrines of Arminianism are false and others are partially false. I don't subscribe to any "ism" but simply prefer to stick with what the Bible says. I refer to myself simply as a Bible believer and Christian and I like to avoid the labels that basically are man's attempt at systematizing religion and the Bible.
Such a weak faux illustration 😭
Such a zero substance comment 🤡
The Good Shepherd lays His life down for the….. let’s say it together, SHEEP! His Words, not mine.
Correct, that is in John 10 in which everybody, believer and unbeliever alike, are called "the sheep." And as Jesus said, He lays His life down for "the sheep" (everyone) and the free gift of God's grace (salvation) is available to everyone! However, salvation only comes to those who receive the gift by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ by faith, and those are the one Jesus called "My sheep." In John 10 there is "my sheep" and "the sheep."
@@faithonfireministriesThat’s not a correct exegesis of John 10.
John 10:11 “I am the good shepherd”
In John 10:14 “I am the good shepherd, I know my own and my own know me”
Then in John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of my hand
(If that’s everyone then everyone is saved.) Also John 17:6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you have gave me out of the world, Yours they were and you gave them to me.
(Don’t say the great high priestly prayer is about the disciples because even then God chooses individuals unto salvation besides Judas.)
John 10:26 You do not believe because you are not among my sheep
How do you not see that the Father has given the Son a certain people to die for and effectively call and will be raised up on the last day.
(John 6:44)
You have to read into the text and skip verses in able to say the sheep are everyone because Jesus makes a difference between two groups.
Good analogy Brian. I've used a very similar version of that for decades 👍
This false man-made theology that came along centuries after the Gospels & Epistles were penned, needs refuted. It's ramifications on devastating.
Amen!
Any religion that must be spread by the sword and enforced by torture, is a false religion. That includes Roman Catholicism, Calvinism and Islam. I used to wonder why some people said Islam parallels Calvinism. But when digging into Islam I started to see these parallels which were pretty unnerving to say the least.
They lurk under the layer of the obvious external differences, unseen unless you've really dug into each one's founder to pick them up.
Calvinism has a lot in common with the Vatican, which seems odd considering Cauvin claimed to be ridding the church of popery.
We are living in an age where evil is called good and good evil.
@@trw1727 In the mid 1500s in Geneva, Jean Cauvin made his own versions of good and evil, even if he had to pull fiction from the air.
I will refute calvinism with an illustration. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Waiting for Paul Powell's comments.
And Manny , the nitwit, Jones
@@johndisalvo6283 Or as I call him, "Manichean Jokes"...
LOL, yes. I'm sure he will weigh in soon enough.
@@johndisalvo6283 Manny usually shows up with his Calvinist buss load of Trolls to do damage control. He must be sleeping
@@truth7416 He OD’d on TULIP salad I think. Lol
After salvation Jesus becomes real
No one can come unless drawn Jesus said!
In John 12: 32, Jesus said everyone is drawn to Him.
“The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.”
Revelation 17:8
And I'm guessing you think this one cherry picked verse supports Calvinistic Fatalism. Why does Rev 3: 5 clearly imply that some people will in heaven and be acknowledged by Jesus before God and not blotted out while other people will have their names blotted out at that time?
@@faithonfireministries I've seen you refer to Revelation 13:8 as a way to show that God planned to sacrifice Christ since the foundation of the earth. Revelation 17:8 speaks of the same beast and the same Book of Life. It also tells us that there are names that have not been written in the Book of Life since the foundation of the earth.
At a minimum in those two passages, we can see two things: God's plan from the foundation of the earth was to sacrifice Christ on the cross. The Book of Life has had names written in it from the foundation of the earth, but it doesn't have the names of the people who will worship the beast, nor the people dwelling on the earth who will marvel at the beast's destruction.
Revelation 3 tells us about the church at Sardis, that it is dead. Even though it is dead, there are some there who are alive. Jesus will not blot out the names of those who are alive from the Book of Life. The dead at Sardis are commanded to repent. It is not implying that some names will be blotted out. It is saying those who are alive don't get blotted out.
In Revelation 20, we find that anyone whose name is not written in the Book of Life will be thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Respectfully, this really isn't really a good analogy for a number of reasons:
1) It fails to consider the role of Adoption in soteriology. God doesn't pick and choose from His already existing family, He chooses to adopt those that are not His family. We are adopted as sons and daughters... we aren't already sons and daughters and then some are rejected.
2) It does the exact same thing that you accuse Calvinists of, namely taking one verse ("be imitators of God") as a single proof text to try and bludgeon another doctrine (one that has been mischaracterized, no less)
3) It fails to engage with the much more robust teaching and understanding of Unconditional Election found in the Canons of Dort. Perhaps you have done videos elsewhere that deal scholarly with the much more robust teachings found in the Canons of Dort and the various reformed confessions. If that is the case, I'd love to hear them... but this video seems to point to little engagement with them.
So to that end, I have two questions:
1) What interactions with the reformed confessional documents have you had on this issue? Especially interested in how you have or have not dealt with first causes vs secondary causes.
2) What role, if any, does classical theism play in your theological views?
The Canons of Dort are not inspired scripture; only a chronicle of a man made philosphy using Bible verses out of context.
-The only basis for spiritual truth is proper interpretation in context of the Bible.
😅😅a good one... keep them coming... ☺
Give me one account in Scripture where God did not first elect anyone before they began following Him? Show me in Scripture where Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, any of the judges, Saul, David, John the Baptist, the 12 disciples, or Paul made a “free will” decision to choose God.
There are lots of examples but I suspect you won't hear the truth from me, but would rather find it yourself. If you watched this video and reject the message that your Calvinistic picture of God does not work and no person should imitate that god of Calvinism as we are commanded to imitate God the Father in Ephesians 5: 1. then you won't listen to any examples I give you either because you have closed your mind off to truth if I am the source of it opposing your loyalty to Calvinism. But you can find the truth for yourself. So, do this if you are curious. Do a Bible word study of "elect" and "chosen" and see if it describes people chosen for a purpose or people chosen for salvation from before time began.
Here is a starter to get you excited about this study: In the Bible Jesus Christ is called elect. He was not chosen to be saved because He is the Savior and Jesus does not need saving. He is perfect. Israel is called elect and many of them were never saved, but they are God's chosen people for sure. Gentile nations are called elect and to fulfill the Great Commission but like with Israel most of the Gentile people will still reject Christ and not be saved nor fulfill the Great Commission they reject but nevertheless many Gentiles have certainly carried out the Great Commission all over the world thus far.
@@faithonfireministries so in other words…you know of none. The Bible teaches that salvation is of the Lord. In John 1:13 it clearly describes those who are “…children of God..” They were not born of blood, nor the will of the flesh nor THE WILL OF MAN, but of God. You yourself have to believe in God’s election of His people because if you are a Christian, you must certainly pray for those you know are lost. You pray and ask God to save them. Why? If salvation is a result of man’s “free will” choice (thereby debunking what John 1:13 teaches) why pray and ask God to save them? You know God must first move on a man’s heart before he can do anything. (Eze 36:25-27) God wills what He wills even if you don’t agree with it nor believe it. God chose and called every Bible hero and overcame their reluctance. He did it with Moses and Jonah and Gideon and if Saul of Tarsus wasn’t the greatest example, I don’t know of one. A spiritually dead man cannot raise himself from the dead. It takes God removing his heart of stone and giving him a heart of flesh and placing His Spirit inside of that man. If that does not happen, all the “decisions” in the world will not save him. Not a single incident in the history of mankind can you point to where man made the choice on his own to become a worshipper of God. He called everyone of them. Since God knows the end from the beginning, He knew who He would call and He knew who He wouldn’t. Your example is a false parallel because 1. God consults with no one. He is not married and everyone He creates are not His children though they are all His creation. 2. Everything He does is Holy because He is Holy. 3. You’re forgetting that the question is never “How can He only save some?” but should be “Why does He save any?”
We all deserve NOTHING but His holy and righteous wrath for our sins. The fact that He would pick anyone for eternal life is what is truly unbelievable.
The sovereignty of God needs no explanation nor defense. Jesus Himself knows this and He even thanked His Father for hiding the truth from some and revealing it others. (Matt 11:25) So Jesus is extolling the sovereignty of God in salvation. Send your little video to Him and ask Him if He likes how you try to nullify His Word.
Election in scripture has to do with service not salvation. The scripture clearly teaches salvation is a gift (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 6:23) not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:5) & is through falth in Christ by the grace of God (Eph.2:8-9, Acts 16:30-31, John 3:16).
In closing search the scriptures per John 5:39 & trust Christ as your Savior (verses previously).
This was about the level of thought I would expect from an 8 year old.
You miss represented the calvanist position badly.
Spoken like a true Calvinist defender, giving only personal attacks and zero substance to your worthless comment.
Calvin was demonic! How could you follow the theology of a wealthy mass murderer?!!!!
He is spot on !
Says an eight year old.
How is this an "unconditional election" debunk? My question to you would be; does God know who will be saved (eventually) or not? If so, this is not an exclusive Calvinist problem. This illustration comparing the all-knowing God to an unknowingly human father who has no idea how his children will turn out.
You totally missed the point, but not surprised because indoctrinated Calvinists have a very difficult time with common sense and reason, nor do they care what the Bible says about the character of God. Calvinists love to point out that God is all-knowing which I agree with, but you fail to recognize God is almighty at the same time. This is never understood by Calvinists which is why they replaced the word almighty in the KJV and in modern bibles wrote in "sovereign" so they can remove the almighty attribute of God and place him in a not-so-sovereign Calvinistic box and redefine the word sovereign to mean total theistic determinism that is unchangeable (even by an almighty God) and claim they know the mind of God and how he does everything, systematized so you can study it in a text book.
My first question would be, why are you attacking my character by assuming I’m an indoctrinated Calvinist?
Second, I have no interest in discussing translation choices, specially if you claim that tRANslaTOrs have changed a word. If you go that way you’ve already lost.
Because you falsely accused me of comparing an all-knowing God to unknowing human father when that is not at all what I did. I did not compare God to man. I only illustrated a human father trying to emulate the character of God as taught by Calvinism. The reason Calvinists don't like this illustration is because it showcases how egregious they are in their explanation of God's character which is not the same as that which is taught in Scripture. They want to teach their doctrines and get gullible people to say they believe those doctrines but they don't want anyone to practice them, and they even label other Calvinists "Hyper-Calvinists" if they do put into practice the teachings of Calvinism.
Had I illustrated a father loving all his children and providing for them equally without favorites, extending grace towards them even after they rebel against the Father's instructions, seeking continual relationship with them, then I would have shown a man that emulates the true character of God in the Bible who has created mankind in His own image, provides for all our needs including our salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ, and is no respecter of persons, meaning God does not play favorites but is full of mercy, love and grace towards everyone.
On the other matter which seems to be a totally different topic you brought up, you think the translators of the Bible have not changed the words? Which translators are you speaking of? How do you explain so many different English translations with different words for the same verse or missing verses? Which Bible translation do you think gets it right? They can't all be right because they are different. Things that are different are not the same.
@@faithonfireministries "God does not play favorites" I see. You've convinced me. I guess the Israëlites where just good people before God wanted a relation with them.
So to put the burden of truth by the one making the claim; can you point me to a (serious) Calvinist writing that ends up in fatalism and the carelessness in which you state that God hates for no reason at all? (And not some deep-web article of someone that did 2 hours of Bible reading) Because you're making a caricature of something that is certainly an issue in some churches, and if I read some comments on this video, so much personal traumas(!), but does not represent the idea of a sovereign God with a purposeful and meaningful divine plan, where human actions and decisions are significant, and are also morally accountable.
So. What I do agree with is that calvinism can bring destruction if its used the other way around, the same way you're making a caricature out of it. Election should never be used as a starting point, but as comfort and grace from God. Spurgeon described the experience of salvation as walking through a gate. An invitation is written on the outside of the gate : "Whosoever will, let him come." This emphasizes the open invitation of the gospel to all people, with human responsibility and the call to come to Christ. After passing through the gate and looking back, one sees written on the inside: "Chosen before the foundation of the world." Sadly its preached the other way around (just like your illustration).
Also. why do I even comment. So not me :)
I thought perhaps Peter, Paul and Mary would start a band. 😂
Love it! 😃 If they did, I'd be a fan and I'd hammer in the morning, all over this land. But at the same time I would be thankful my kids never puff the magic dragon that lived by the sea.
You clearly didn’t read Ephesians 1
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
God’s Rich Blessings
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavens. 4 For He chose us in Him, before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless in His sight.[b] In love[c] 5 He predestined us to be adopted through Jesus Christ for Himself, according to His favor and will, 6 to the praise of His glorious grace that He favored us with in the Beloved.
There is a teacher on youtube by the name of David Benjamin, a man much maligned by the false gracers and Calvinists, whose flawless teachings have set people free from the bondage of fear associated with the doctrines of devils and of wolves and hirelings. I have listened to hundreds of teachers to identify those few whose teaching is according only to the scriptures, and of those I have found less than a handful who have done the deep dive into holy writ and fully understood the deep things of God and of the gospel as it is presented from Genesis to Revelation, David Benjamin's teachings being at the top.
David Benjamin is awesome. His teachings are so edifying!
@@THEGOSPELISFOREVERYBODY So glad there is someone here to corroborate my testimony.
please take the word of God and deal with it so that we can better understand the texts that calvinists used to explain unconditional election. Examples don't have the power against the truth of the word of God
A bunch of nothing and not Bible at all in this guy gaslighting
Calvinism debunked: Ezra 7:13 (KJV) "I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee."
Your sketch makes them divorced (Like GOD and humanity) which is exactly what happened in the garden of Eden therefore does not debunk Calvinism.
Romans 9
God’s Gracious Election of Israel
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants.[e] On the contrary, your offspring will be traced[f] through Isaac.[g] 8 That is, it is not the children by physical descent[h] who are God’s children, but the children of the promise are considered to be the offspring. 9 For this is the statement of the promise: At this time I will come, and Sarah will have a son.[i] 10 And not only that, but also Rebekah received a promise when she became pregnant[j] by one man, our ancestor Isaac. 11 For though her sons had not been born yet or done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to election might stand- 12 not from works but from the One who calls-she was told: The older will serve the younger.[k] 13 As it is written: I have loved Jacob, but I have hated Esau.[l]
God’s Selection Is Just
14 What should we say then? Is there injustice with God? Absolutely not! 15 For He tells Moses:
I will show mercy
to whom I will show mercy,
and I will have compassion
on whom I will have compassion.[m]
16 So then it does not depend on human will or effort[n] but on God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture tells Pharaoh:
I raised you up for this reason
so that I may display My power in you
and that My name may be proclaimed in all the earth.[o]
18 So then, He shows mercy to those He wants to, and He hardens those He wants to harden.
19 You will say to me, therefore, “Why then does He still find fault? For who can resist His will?” 20 But who are you, a mere man, to talk back to God? Will what is formed say to the one who formed it, “Why did you make me like this?” 21 Or has the potter no right over the clay, to make from the same lump one piece of pottery for honor and another for dishonor? 22 And what if God, desiring to display His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience objects of wrath ready for destruction? 23 And what if He did this to make known the riches of His glory on objects of mercy that He prepared beforehand for glory- 24 on us, the ones He also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As He also says in Hosea:
I will call Not My People, My People,
and she who is Unloved, Beloved.[p]
26 And it will be in the place where they were told,
you are not My people,
there they will be called sons of the living God.[q]
27 But Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:
Though the number of Israel’s sons
is like the sand of the sea,
only the remnant will be saved;
28 for the Lord will execute His sentence
completely and decisively on the earth.[r][s]
29 And just as Isaiah predicted:
If the Lord of Hosts[t] had not left us offspring,
we would have become like Sodom,
and we would have been made like Gomorrah.[u]
poor illustration.
not all humans are his children.
but worse than that: it is analogous to not making a god in your own image, which is about his identity, but about his ways. your premises, especially about his purpose, are wrong. so, your conclusion is wrong. your view is human-centered, as is your hermeneutic.
his ways are higher than your ways.
-- tulipist and tongues-pray-er
All people according to Luke 3 are God's children because it says Adam was the son of God in the genealogy of Jesus Christ (Luke 3: 38) and all people are descendants of Adam. That is undeniable in Scripture unless you reject God's Word. Colossians 1: 16 says, "For by Him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him:" Do you disagree with this? Child of God is a metaphor for a saved believer in the Bible but do you honestly think Satan is the creator of any person? Calvinists are so dishonest with Scripture. You guys claim Satan is the father of the non-elect people but at the same time claim God is the one who determines and decrees everyone's thoughts and actions including the sins they do, in order that God receives glory through those sins and evil acts. The god of Calvinism is not God of the Bible.
I think you and the calvinest should be careful. Seems to me that before the foundation of creation God knows the whole time of man. God has a plan and k ow exactly what it takes to fulfill it and said let it be. And it is.
So, you think it is God's plan for predestine many people to hell? That flies in the face of clear Scripture. Don't you think Jesus would not tell us when we pray to pray that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. That means people are going against God's will on earth. That is what sin is... transgressing the law which is set by God, and people will be held accountable to God. People choose hell, God chose to offer them life, but many reject it. Scripture makes this abundantly clear. Calvinism is from Satan and a complete perversion of God's Word infiltrated into Christianity by wolves in sheep's clothing.
Your analogy has holes in it. John 11: 51 & 52 teaches that Jesus came to gather into one all the children of God. Not everyone is a child of God. Isa: 46:10 tells us that the end from the beginning has already been determined by God, which would include those who would be his children. God's will for all the events of time will be carried out. See Psalm 115:3.
Supposedly James White is going to pretend to debunk this video on Radio Free Geneva in the not so distant future... you should do a response video utilizing ad hominem and strawman counters. I expect White's "debunking" video to be heavy laden with fallacious arguments.
I would pay money to see Brian debate James White.
Oh yes, White's commentaries are always loaded with that.
@@faithonfireministriessays the man who uses strawman and ad hominem in every response video. Attacking anyone who disagrees with you.
I don’t know who to turn to....... who is Howard Peth?
What do you believe it means to be the elect of God?
There is not one "elect" as that term is attributed to different groups, or simply that Jesus Christ alone is called the Elect of God, also the nation of Israel are called elect, so are are the Gentile nations, and so are Christians. So, give me a verse about the elect and I will be happy to explain what it means.
@@faithonfireministries there are many, but let’s just start with Romans 9:6-24. I am curious to hear your interpretation of this passage.
Glad you asked. Here is my video on explaining Romans 9: ruclips.net/video/z7Re5kgc5BI/видео.html
““I have loved you,” says the Lord. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.” If Edom says, “We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins,” the Lord of hosts says, “They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called ‘the wicked country,’ and ‘the people with whom the Lord is angry forever.’””
Malachi 1:2-4 ESV
You quoted the Bible. Good. Now, what is your point?
@@faithonfireministries my point is you may wanna read the Bible before you take God down to the level of his creation
@@Objectivetruth9122 I have read the Bible in its entirety many times in my life and continue to read every morning in devotional time. I have read most of the popular modern Bibles in their entirety as well, even though I read the KJV now. Rest assured, your concern is unfounded and a wildly false assumption on your part. I suspect you left that Bible quote for a different reason and chose not to give your interpretation or any point about it for a specific reason, and when I asked you about it above, you still didn't answer that very simple question but diverted. So, I'll try again. Why did you leave that particular Bible quote and what is your point?
@@faithonfireministries my point was to point out to you that Malachi 1 contradicts everything you said in your video! Jacob I Loved Esau I hated, you make a huge mistake in down grading God to the level of sinful man when you compare God to the husband in your example! God is the Creator, we are sinful man. Isn’t it blasphemous to compare a Holy God who is just and loving in every way to a sinful man? Who are you oh man? If you’ve read the Bible as you say, then why not actually use scripture to back up what you believe? And address Malachi which contradicts you
I suspected so, you believe God literally only loves a few and hates all the rest of His Creation and you use that Scripture out of context to justify a false picture of God's character, but I wanted to hear that confirmation from you first. Now, go read Ephesians 5: 1 and you will see that we are commanded to imitate God. My illustration of the husband came after I defined the god of Calvinism focused on Calvinistic unconditional election. The illustration then proceeds to show us what it would look like if a man starting a family imitates the god of Calvinism and unconditionally selects before they are born which of his children to love and which to hate. It demonstrates absurdity and therefore demonstrating the absurdity of Calvinism and its false god.
Your own comment betrays you and proves you to be a cult member and not a Bible believer. When imitating God as commanded illustrates the absurdity of your cult, you then proceed to indirectly denounce Scripture and say a man imitating God is downgrading God. This is why your crowd so strongly rejects anything but Expository Preaching. They hate illustrations and analogies and talking about practical application of God's Word in our lives because when done so it proves they are not expositing the Word of God correctly at all, but perverting God's Word. So they try to convince you that just reading the text line by line and then interpreting it for you without providing any practical application in our life today is best because then they can bamboozle you all day long with false interpretations.
This illustration also wrongly assumes all mankind is God's children. But thats not at all what scripture teaches.
Oh yes that is exactly what Scripture teaches. Regarding Creation God is everyone's Father regardless if they recognize God or not. We are all Created by God and made in His image. Satan created nothing and nobody and only corrupts what God has made, including corrupting people with lies. You are confusing John 8: 44 in which Jesus says Satan is the father of the religious leaders but that is not meant to be taken literally anymore than calling us sheep means we are literally sheep. It is a metaphor.
Jesus explains in that passage that they desire to do what Satan does which is lies and he says there is no truth in them just like Satan and that Satan is the father of lies. Father of lies is the connection, not literally their father. Therefore liars are called as having Satan as their father metaphorically. Unbelievers will not stand before Satan one day and be judged by him their Creator, but they will stand and be judged before God their Creator.
@@faithonfireministries It's true, we are all created by God. But this does not make everyone God's child. Scripture, in fact, teaches the opposite. Romans 8:15 declares that we are adopted into the family of God so that we may call Him "Abba, father". Ephesians 2:19 confirms that when we come to faith, we are no longer strangers, but become members of the household of God. John 8:44 has nothing to do with what I said.
My illustration is about a father imitating God (sadly the absurd part is that he imitates the god of Calvinism) as we are commanded to imitate God in Ephesian 5: 1. The father in the illustration plans out having physical and biological children, not adopting other people's biological children into his family, and undeniably God is the Father and Creator of all people but you are implying God is not the Creator of most people. That is wrong.
Spiritual adoption into the God's family of saints is a different matter related to the rebirth of Christians. It is spiritual, not physical. Why would Jesus teach us to pray by saying "Our Father who is in Heaven..." if that statement were not universally true but only true of born again people? When you start making weird claims like God is not the heavenly Father of all, then you start to challenge what Jesus plainly said you sound like some weird liberal claiming that the Bible and the words of Jesus are only "truth" for Christians but irrelevant to nonchristians who should find their "own truth." You have become the sole authority rather than Scripture at that point, and in fact are believing "your truth" rather than "the truth."
This is dangerous because sadly you are making this claim perhaps unknowingly I hope but still misunderstanding Scripture and misapplying it. Imagine a person trusted your words as a lost soul who began to consider what the Bible says and then heard how you teach it? That person would probably conclude that God did not create them and is not their heavenly Father who loves them and wants to see them redeemed, and therefore what Jesus said about prayer and the Father does not apply to them at all or anyone else except those who are already Christians. They'd drop the Bible and close their ears to it right then because Jesus' words according to you are not a standard of universal truth, but only true for some few select people and all others must find a different "truth." That is nonsense and dangerous.
@@faithonfireministries God does not teach "all" to pray the Lord's prayer. The "our father who art in heaven" is a prayer for those who are already in Christ. This is not a universal prayer for anyone and everyone. In fact, that reeks of Mormon theology, the idea that all created beings are God's children.
And your anecdote is cute, but meaningless. If someone is given the gospel and is stirred to repentance and faith, they were indeed drawn by God the father and saved according to His sovereign decrees, and if they are given the gospel and reject it, they are rightly condemned by both God's sovereign will and their own hardness of heart.
You see, you may be warring against determinism, but not against Calvinism, which has always taught the truth that both God is sovereign and man is responsible. You continue to show you have no understanding of the Reformed Faith nor of the scriptures.
This is ridiculously bad.
Imagine if you put the same effort into sharing the Gospel, you could actually make a difference! You ever thought of that?
I am glad you agree that sharing the Gospel is the most important. The comment is quite accusatory and wildly assumptive considering you have no idea how I spend my time.
@@faithonfireministries Not assuming anything, simply an observation!
That was quite a conclusion to come to after only observing a 12 minute video.
@@faithonfireministries NO........after watching many, many of your videos.........God bless
You seem to have a very strong opinion of Calvinism and use your diagram and your own ideas rather than showing in scripture that God does not call people or elect. I read the Bible myself and there are a greater amount of verses that speaks about God's sovereignty and His will and the fact that the Word says no one comes to the Father unless the father calls them etc then the scriptures that speak about our free will. They are both very clearly in the Bible and the Bible is the truth. You You
If God is the father, who is the wife in this analogy??
In Matthew 23: 1 Jesus is speaking to the multitudes and the disciples. Many of these multitudes will reject Christ. However, one thing Jesus says to the multitudes is in verse 9 when Jesus says to them this, "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." Case closed! God is the Father of everyone. That is fact of Scripture. That truth does not change even for someone who does not believe in God. Jesus is Lord of all, even of those who reject Him. And one day even knee will bend and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Truth is truth.
@@faithonfireministries That doesn't address the question I asked. Who is the wife in your analogy?
The wife is just representing any wife in a marriage, just as the husband is any husband in a marriage. She too should follow the commandments of Christ and follow God (Eph 5: 1).You could reverse my illustration and have the wife making the predestined claims about how to treat the future children differently and have the husband upset over how she is going to treat some good and some horrible, determined before they are even born, and this illustration would make the same exact point.
@@faithonfireministries Still doesn't make a lick of sense.
It does to intelligent people.
Literally read the next 3 verses in Ephesians, vs 4-6, and it completely destroys your argument… your entire explanation is void.
Ephesians 1:4-6
“[4] even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love [5] he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, [6] to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.”
Man should not try and reason as God does. He is perfect and can do as he wishes
This is a very sad and flawed comparison
I am well aware of the Calvinistic misinterpretation of that passage. Verse 3 which I quoted is often ignored by Calvinists as they desire to skip it and jump to verse 4 and set the stage falsely from there. Also, you said an odd thing which is God can do as he wishes. Do you believe God can lie? Can God take a born again believer and cast him into the lake of fire just because God wants to? Can God change the commandments and suddenly declare that adultery is a good thing?
Calvinism depends upon people deciding that God is nothing like the God of the Bible in terms of love, mercy and grace, but only the God they drool over that destroys cities.
So every person born in this world are already children of God? Universalism time! 10 By this the children of God and the bchildren of the devil are manifested: everyone who does not do righteousness is not of God, as well as the one who does not love his brother. 1st John 3:10 Legacy Standard Bible. Three Sixteen Publishing, 2022. Print.
Nope, that is not what I said. I just explained that Satan did not create anyone and is not literally anyone's father. Only believers are "children of God" which is a metaphor for saved believers in the Bible. However, let me share with you from the Bible Colossians 1: 16,17 which says, "For by Him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: 17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist."
Everything and everybody was created by Jesus and for Jesus and nothing exists that was not created by Him. Do you agree with that? If so, then you agree with Scripture and the point I was making in this video.
The reason I said that in the first place was because I had received comments from Calvinists who claimed unbelievers father is Satan but they meant it literally. They clearly do not understand what Jesus meant when He said to the religious Jewish leaders that their father is Satan. Jesus was using a metaphor and the connection is this... That Satan originated lies and so Jesus called Satan the Father of lies and that is why he said the Jewish leaders were full of lies and Satan is their father. It is not literal but metaphorical. Satan created nothing and nobody. He is not the literal father of anyone.
We use the same metaphors today. Aristotle is considered the Father of Biology. It would be ridiculous to suggest that any biologist today literally has Aristotle as their father, but it would be accurate to link the Father of Biology to those who are biologists because they have that in common. Jesus could see that the religious leaders and Satan had lies in common.
@@faithonfireministries I am going by what the bible teaches.
When one starts everyone as being a child of God when so many scriptures refutes this ideal but then start an illustration of equating a person’s family and children with whom God chooses or chooses not to save-you are starting in the wrong place.
Start with everyone in rebellion and hating God-that is where the bible starts the election of grace. Not going by some obscure passage or concept. Start at Isaiah 53 and tell me about all the well mannered children of God that loves God...but then God decided to send some to hell.
Show me that in Psalms 14 where God concludes there ois none righteous no not one.
Begin in Psalms 12 where the lovely children of God proclaim, “our lips are our own, who is Lord over us?”
Let me ask, so is God being our Father...is that also metaphorical being john was contrasting between the children of the devil and the children of God. So if the Children of the devil is metaphorical so must be the children of God, right? Yet, as Paul had shown in Romans 8, we are children of God by adoption and Christ is our brother. Do believe he taught the same thing in Galatians as he did in Romans 9 showing one is not a child of God by physichal birth but rather by spiritual. If you are not a child of God...than what are you? A child of no-one? Whose family does one not a child of God belong to...I think it should start to be clear. Born again? Ever heard of that. You can quiver about this or that but the scriptures are clear-your a child of God or a child of the devil.
1st John 3:8 says, “He that commits sin is of the devil.” Is that a metaphorical statement?
I think what you are missing is there is a bit more between being a Father and Son in ancient times...especially among Jews and the ideals of first born sons.
Your right...the devil cannot have sex with anyone and create children physically. This passage is a bit more than that (obviously when we understand we have been given a spirit of adoption unless you really want to teach God is physically your father who by the way-only applies to one person unless your Mormon.)
Who do you belong to? Who do you identify with? Whose side are you on, (hankering back to Joshua’s famous pronouncement)?
Read 1st John 3 from the beginning to the end of the chapter.
Side note, that is where I see echoes of James 2 as John did teach the same things James did.
You base your illustration purely on emotion and have no scriptural support for your teaching, you might tickle the ears of man but this is unbiblical.
Thank you for 100% agreeing with my point. The illustration is absurd because it is based upon a man emulating (imitating) the god of Calvinism. Ephesians 5: 1 commands us to imitate God. I defined the Calvinistic doctrine of unconditional election unto salvation. God is the Creator of all people and so then I simply illustrated what it looks like when a man is starting a family imitates that god described by Calvinists. I typed a lower case "g" on purpose because Calvinism is not talking about the God of the Bible but a god of their own false doctrines. So you are right, the illustration and Calvinism both have no Scriptural support.
I think you're describing hyper calvinism not garden variety calvanism but my personal beliefs are the following on tulip
1. Total depravity : yes we are totally depraved by nature but that does not mean total inability to believe . The Devil is totally depraved yet believes and trembles ....the Gospel when believed, removes total depravity from the individual did you notice Jesus condemned pagans for their unbelief only Christians like the disciples are rebuked for lack of faith; faith is a gift, belief Is not and God demands it before faith is given...belief and faith are two different things.
2. Unconditional election: Election is unconditional but only for groups ....predestination and unconditional election is not about the individual, but is about the inclusion of the gentiles in the plan of salvation above the objection of the jews ....when Paul uses the word you, its a plural you, not a singular you. So yes, the gentiles are also included as part of the church from before the foundation of the world.
3. Limited Atonement: Really? News flash! Jesus primary reason for his Atonement was to satisfy the wrath of God so as to reconcile God to man, and open the gates to all mankind for salvation (symbolized by the veil torn in two from top to bottom ) now God is an eternal being, and His wrath is unlimited, ergo the Atonement had to be unlimited to satisfy his unlimited wrath. duh!!!
4. Irresistible grace : Well partially true, but that is only because grace is given after hearing the Gospel and believing it. Then God gives faith to trust him and ask for forgiveness admitting you are a sinner and then he gives the irresistible grace to pull you in at that point and then after acknowledging He is lord, and you are a sinner in His irresistible grace he regenerates you, and makes you Born again. This process happens to anyone who believes. God won't give you His irresistible grace until after you believe.
5. Preserverance of the saints: This is true ..Once God saves you, it's forever, there is no going back because in the process of salvation He gives you a new heart (inner man) and he makes you dead, then raises you to newness of life, so you are a new man, with a new heart, and new desires, but that man has to battle against the flesh (sarx). That flesh does not get regenerated but goes into the grave. The new man in you never sins, it's your flesh that sins. This happens when your mind causes you to walk in the flesh. Nevertheless, God is the one who maintains our salvation forever, so come hell or high water, God will always be faithful, even when we are unfaithful, and is able to save you to the uttermost .....
A word about sovereignty....God in His sovereignty has delegated the Gospel itself to be the one who breaks thru the depravity of man; that is why Paul says "it is the power of God" to what? "To everyone who" what? "Who believes"....You believe the message, and God does the rest . You supress the truth in unbelief ? Then God does nothing with you, and you are on your way to hell. Now belief is not a work, that is why Jesus said to the one who doesn't work but believes !
This is the true message of salvation. The calivinistic view point is not inspired by the Holy Spirit, only the Bible is. Everything I have said is found in the Bible.....Calvinism is only found in the Bible belt, and much less hyper calvinism, which is truly satanic!! 0:06 0:06
You make some excellent points here. Thanks for sharing. Let me give you my take on hyper Calvinism. I know others use the term hyper Calvinism quite often which is fine, but to me that is sort of like saying a true believer is a hyper Christian. No, there is just real Christians who truly believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and then there are church goers who are not yet true believers. Just the same there are real devout Calvinists and then there are other pseudo Calvinists who have not fully embraced and believed the well-defined doctrines of Calvinism completely. You probably heard of 3 or 4 point Calvinists for instance. A 5 point Calvinist is what some people call a hyper Calvinists but I don't use that term. I think it falsely lends some credibility to Calvinism which deserves no credibility when people use that term hyper Calvinism, as if that is extreme but regular Calvinism is okay. Nope!
Real Calvinism is "hyper Calvinism". I don't care what re-labeling or "re-defining" is done, Calvinism is Calvinism. You can call a leopard a cougar but the spots and everything else don't change. I grew up in Purest Calvinism surrounded by hundreds of True Believers. I know what its all about and there is nothing redeeming about it.
@baltichammer6162 You have a point , but as far as Calvinism is concerned, I only agree with point 1 and point 5 but I have caviats caviat for point 1 is depravity is not inability to believe. Why would Jesus chastise the pharisees for their unbelief ? Yet he said he did not condemn the woman caught in adultery ....Seems to me, belief is more important than morals , why? Because that is the only path to salvation. No one can truly repent of sins until after God regenerates him or her which occurs at salvation not before....but unbelievers can supress the truth that is known, and purposely chose to supress the belief that is oozing out of them. If morality was the standard for salvation, then we could all become moralists like the pharisees were in their attempt to keep the law. However, Jesus upped the standard to not just committing a sin, but to even thinking of committing a sin to be a sin. So there goes morality...Truly, the path to salvation is step 1 belief in the message of the gospel, step 2 God gives you the gift of faith to go from belief to trust. Step 3 He gives you His irresistible grace to draw you in step 4 you confess your a sinner and establishing your own righteousness is useless and confess he is right , he is Lord and ask him to forgive you (1 John 1:9) then he cleanses you (regenerates you ) gives you a new heart with new desires ....his Finished work does something for you and does something to you also. The Morality is an after effect of what has already been done you....a result over time gradually. His Righteousness is given to you as an gift and you have to unwrap it and unpack that gift of righteousness over a lifetime and learn how to use it. Many Christians have the righteousness but don't have a clue how to use it , they never unpack it. It's called walking in the Spirit. In other words living in God's matrix where the 5 senses are not relevant that is the just shall live by faith. If a Christian lives in the earthly matrix constantly he is living sensually. I don't mean lustfully, I mean sensually is living life based on the 5 senses only ....meaning horizontally. Only when we walk in the Sprit do we experience the fruit of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, patience , gentleness, kindness, meekness .....if we are living this way we don't need the law as our guide and that eliminates living like the galatians did beginning by faith and continuing in human effort that is legalism. The Holy Spirit works with our new heart that is ALWAYS obedient to the lord. When we sin we sin with the mind and give in to the desires of the flesh which is corrupt. That is why we renew the mind but the heart does not have to be renewed. Set your mind on things above. That is why our new heart convicts us of wrong doing, because it is linked to the Holy Spirit within us. This is the life of the believer. Unfortunately we Christians (me included ) drop in and out of God's matrix regularly and go back and forth from earthly sensual matrix to God's matrix over and over again. A constant of living in Gods matrix won't happen until we are out of the presence of sin after we die. All this to say that we trust God to maintain our salvation for he made a promise to himself which is the anchor of the Oath he took by swearing to Himself for there was none greater than himself to swearing by and our faith trusts in that. This would be impossible if the faith had not been given by God in the first place. Btw Jesus said if I be lifted up I will draw ALL men to myself not some. However this is not universalism either. It is merely saying the Door is open to all individuals of all races, creeds, and colors.....the only repentance needed is the repentance (metanoia) from dead works of the law (self sufficiency ) to looking to Jesus for your redemption end of story and from then on He perseveres the saints. End of story! That is my soteriology and I'm sticking to it !
Totally depraved means total depraved? Think about this. Hitler was not totally depraved. I saw him pet his dog. I saw him pat a child on the head. I saw him say thank you.
When people throw around the word "Totally Depraved" it means Total! Zero! Nada!
That is false. Even the worst criminal in the World still has some good in them.
"Totally Depraved" is an insult to the work God has placed in His created beings.
The term "Totally Depraved" was invented by the Cult Founders of Calvinism. The closest "Totally depraved" human being I have ever come across is John Calvin.
But I hate to admit it, there was still a grain or two of goodness in him. (shudder)
To say that man is "Totally Depraved" is a Totally depraved thing to say!!
Truth in Love
@@markpalfenier5851 Piles of words saying nothing. Textbook trait of Jean Cauvin. Reading his commentaries is truly shocking to see his ignorance and arrogance on display. He should have a pretzel maker
Calvinists take the place of God in their thoughts toward the saved. It’s so sad.
No, they don't.