As you asked, I was not a passenger on this flight, but I was the on-duty Air Traffic Controller at Cochin that day (Since then I have moved to a different airport). I remember that night very clearly as it was one of the more eventful days early on in my career. Initially, we were of course not aware of the developing emergency, but we did provide all possible assistance to the aircraft. The next morning, after consulting with my colleagues at Trivandrum airport I got to know about the emergency declaration and the final report took more than a year to come out. This did lead to more detailed fueling guidance by DGCA (the regulatory body). We have used this as a case study in our refresher training courses also. About the video, as usual, it's very well done (But I am watching this almost a year after you published it). There are some minor mistakes like the procedure for RWY27 at Cochin involves a base turn and not a procedure turn as shown in the video and the holding and flight paths (I might have the flightradar24 screenshots because I was new and it was an eventful night lol)
One thing I could not understand is there are so many airports nearby ( international) and why the pilots have chosen TRV instead of CJB ( which has been clearly marked as a good alternate ) plus fog will not be there in CJB. Even if they do not want to go to the next state , there are options other than TRV in Kerala itself. I think 6-7 airports are within 20 minutes flying time.
Thanks! I haven't flown since the early 90s. I'm 70y/o, retired, and essentially home bound but still enjoy learning. I always enjoy your presentations, much / most of which is due to your personal informative approach and enthusiasm. Keep doing what you do.
I was in this flight. Just a 12 year old kid trying to get to my uncle's house desperately. Nobody gave us any information, and we were strapped to our seats for about 90 minutes during all go arounds and landings. There were only 2 announcements by the pilot, that was for bad weather before the failed first landing and the next one for the alt airport. personally we couldnt feel that we were so close to terrain before approach. i cant even imagine being in the cockpit for this one
@Mentour Pilot: Your fuel calculation reminds me of my very first solo traffic pattern in a very small propeller aircraft. To compensate the missing weight of the flight instructor, the instructor told me to fill up all tanks to maximum. Just after takeoff the tower questioned me how long I'm able to stay airborne. My answer was: "2 hours plus 1 hour reserve". After that the tower announced me that the runway was blocked and the airfield was closed because the aircraft with glider in tow which tried to take off direct after me had an accident. So I had to make my first cross country flight just from the spot without any preparation. I neither had a gps navigation nor a paper map, this was about 0,5m in my back, unreachable for me. There was a simple traffic pattern planned and not a cross country flight. So they diverted me not to the nearest but the most easy to find airfield. As I arrived there, I remember the grandfatherly voice of the air traffic controller and the full service after touch-down. Kudos for the instructor who told me to fill up all fuel tanks to its maximum even for a simple traffic pattern.
@@eragonawesome I was scared at the flight because I thought the whole time: "Don't get lost in space. Hope I'll find any airfield to land." As I saw the airfield on arrival my mind changed rapidly to: "You are going to land this thing now, there is no question whether it will become good or bad, it'll be good!"; full self confidence to make it. There was not even a short moment for me to think about the fact that there is no flight instructor beside me. Do it! Lessons learned of it: - Whatever may happen, fly the aircraft at first! - Fight tooth and nail to the bloody end. - Sweat in practice safes blood in emergency.
Yes it does. Eben today when there is one passenger on the co-pilots seat it is a huge difference. Flying alone with tanks nearly empty the aircraft has a take-off weight of 360kg. With all tanks full and a person sitting beside me, I will reach the maximum take-off weight of 480kg. That is only a difference of 120kg but this means about 30% difference. You will feel it at the stick.
As a pilot myself, I know the anxiety these pilots were going through, but to have the lives of many passengers in your hands while this crisis is happening is just unthinkable. They should have taken 48 hours off before getting back in the cockpit, just to compose themselves
I think it´s very much an individual thing, why do I always watch Mayday before a flight? I love it. My best mate went rock climbing, fell and broke a lot of bones, the first thing he said when waking up at the hospital was: THAT WAS DOPE!!! Can´t wait to try it again. :- ... and he meant it.
Sin e you're a pilot, let me ask: is it really so unreasonable to disable the audible alarm when they know the situation? Why is it against regulation to reduce your stress Inputs when you're trying to survive?
I am a local in Trivandrum and an avid Flight Simmer. So some additional context - Jet Airways had started its decline as a carrier during that decade. And the management of the company in India was cutting corners everywhere. The crew must have been pressured to fly back partly because of this. Another reason, this route is extremely profitable for all airlines as it brings in Gulf bound and back Malayalee workers/emigrees. Packed fully and booked months ahead in time. The night time flight is the most sought after, given it is cheaper that suites many of the econoimy passengers. There is a lot of competition with other carriers on this a "milk that cow most" route. Quick turn arounds are considered by management as essential. Another aspect is the weather, we are in the tropical humid climate belt and experiences heavy doses of misting and fog in the early morning hours during the monsoon season. The pilots would have been exposed to this before given the flight experience of the captain and the prominence of this route. Trivandrum is a coastal town and the runway is adjacent to the beach. This adds to the problem as the wind conditions bring in low clouds and mist from the sea. Also our weather in Kerala is heavily influence by the Western Ghats montain range creating a different weather pattern through out the State of Kerala where Both Cochin and Trivandrum is located in. Often both Airports face very similar conditions at the same time. Bangalore is a city in central South India away from the Indian ocean and on the other side of the mountain range. It has much higher altitude and a totally different weather system. So picking Bangalore as the alternate was a better decision. Every other alternate they considered including Coimabtore does experience weather orginating in Indian Ocean. Given that Bangalore is in another state( costs airline more to bring the passengers back to destination) and a more costly airport to land in must have weighed in on the Captains mind. Remember the cost cutting that was going on. This is the reason I blame the airline management for making life more difficult for flight crews. Cost cutting is BAD for an Airline, especially in safety department. Another aspect is cultural. In India there is this mentality to not question your seniors especially upper management. So even when they do dumb things, the juniors are supposed to show difference and respect . The captain trusted his own expertise and did not weigh in when the First officer expressed his concern. Also I think there were cutbacks on all operations at Jet. In India there is a tendency to sweep details under the rug when it becomes an issue of blame throwing. Meticulous work is not favoured over quick fix approach. I am sure there would be Indians who would oppose this opinion, but understanding where we are lacking is very important process of learning. And in aviation there is no excuse as it involves people's lives.
@@forgottensage-o5o I had a good education and worked for years in Tech within India and abroad. Trust me, there are a lot of Indians who can write really good English!
I started following air accident investigations when I worked at sea as there's no better documented cases for understanding how the human brain reacts to stress. This case is a perfect example for everyone in all ways of life.
I also like it for seeing how quick things can escalate sometimes. And how there are still scenarios after decades of modern aviation that have not happened before. And of course, how great or even inhuman the pilots usually react to this.
Yes, indeed. And how quick a normal situation can transfer into a Life-or-Death-Situation when wrong decisions are made. The Panick during the seventh Approach must have been horrible - and not only for the Pilots! Imagine the People sitting in the Cabin who could do nothing! Horrible - simply horrible!☹
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You asked what happened to the Crew? Well the airline itself was under investigation for corporate malfeasance around this time. It shut down operations in 2019 and as of today there are some attempts to revive it. Corporate frauds / difficulties have an impact down the line. Airline companies in such difficulties endanger thousands of innocent lives and ought not to be allowed to fly until they straighten up and fly right - literally.
@@hewhohasnoidentity4377 Yes. Whereever these Pilots are today, they didn´t work for Jet Airways. But that´s not the important Point here. Hail Mary, indeed!!!
The systemic tragedy is that because of such rigid safety standards, smaller businesses are even more likely to go under in the competitive game, while the big players, by my standards, are irresponsibly unsafe, too. There is a general business war agenda of trying to throw hardships onto the whole market because big corporations have an easier time shouldering them while their small competitors are collapsing under them. It is an expression of how capitalism thrives on misery.
I’m a new cabin crew and I’ve been watching this videos since my training trying to understand certain abbreviations or aviation words or sentences or SOPs and I love talking to the flight deck about all the things I learn from this channel. They are most impressed with my knowledge to say the least and are always happy to have me on the flight deck when I have my dinner and explain everything to me. Thanks a lot x
As a pilot, I have a rule of thumb for these kind of situations: you can either decide what to do on your own early on, or the situation will end up making the decision for you - and you likely won't be happy with the result. The captain did the latter and they avoided an accident by the absolute narrowest of margins as a result.
Rules provide the framework for decision making. The fact that another aircraft had made a successful landing after they had performed the go around was a pivotal factor in the pilot deciding to bend the rules until there was no way out.
" you can either decide what to do on your own early on, or the situation will end up making the decision for you - and you likely won't be happy with the result." You can apply this logic to ALLOT of things in life - your credit card, your health, the economy and ecology of your nation, And the ecology of the entire planet!
Are you even a commercial pilot though? I'm guessing not, because commercial pilots are supposed to have rules and frameworks governed by the airline they work for, and by professionalism. I bet your rule of thumb is not one of these rules.
@@candydandy2694 It is impossible to make a 'rule' for every situation that may occur, so, pilots need to be able to rely on their training and experience and tie it all in with common sense , and common sense may well include 'rules of thumb'... but it all comes under the broad category known as ADM (aeronautical decision making)
Thank you for making this video. The pilot was hailed as a local hero and got mixed reactions from media. After interrogation by airport authorities, both the FO and captain were suspended temporarily. The airlines shut down all its operations a few years back and have only recently revived the brand once again. Meanhile, both the pilot and FO have resumed their duties with separate airlines aand this whole incident has been made into a bollywood thriller movie named 'Runway 34'😀
That's actually a very humorous end to what could have been a very tragic story. The captain has a pretty cool full name too, Manoj Kumar Rama Warrier.
I'm going to hope there was song and dancing in that movie. Probably not, but an Indian musical about a plane running out of fuel would be _awesome._ 😎
I was a flight attendant for 17 years on the 737 800. I had one incident that happened to be going into my home city where we had five go around. There was no communication from the cockpit and by the time we landed I was almost in tears
That sounds insane! Is that normal in these situations? Or should pilots be speaking with the flight attendants during such a situation? I honestly don't know and I'd be interested to learn what is common. I'm glad you landed safely.
We tried to land at JFK in NY. We went around about 5 times. No announcements until the capt finally took us to Philly in PA. The weather was poor and there was alot of traffic nowhere to park at JFK. So we eventually landed at Philadelphia far from NY.
@@lh457725 Always remember and order IS relevant: "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" If the cockpit didnt communicate thats probably because the two first tasks where already taking 100 % of their capabilities. It always amazes me how much some flight attendants in some compagnies are completely ignorant of the challenges the cockpit has to face, i dont expect them to be pilots themselves but at least not being completely in the dark when it comes to knowing the tasks their colleagues could be facing... (Sorry in advance for spelling and grammar, english aint my mother tongue)
Oh my, the people in the cabin must have been terrified. I cannot imagine a flight crew making such bad decisions that left them with the only alternative to crashing was performing a Hail Mary blind landing. And then for the same flight crew to be allowed by their company to fly out the same day is unimaginable. There is no way they would have been mentally and emotionally fit to make that flight. Excellent review of a very bizarre situation!!
Well, its not clear the company "allowed" them.. we don't know what information between the arrival and departure was in the hands of the company or the managers in charge of staffing and scheduling flights. If the crew didn't specifically tell them a summary of the problems and express distress then they wouldn't know until the investigation got under way.
The structure of your storyline and how it builds up suspense through digestible bytes of information before presenting the conclusion is so engaging. Thanks for doing this great effort to educate us.
As an Indian I am not surprised that the final report by the authorities was poorly written. There's a saying, "Koi baath nahi. Chaltha hai" which basically means, "no worries, she'll be right"... which is the mindset of many of the authorities/governing bodies in India when it comes to safety.
We should investigate and document such close calls as closely as we document accidents. This was 99% of a catastrophic accident, the plane just so happened not to crash this time. We should treat that as we treat a crash. On another day, this would have been fatal.
In India, 'let's move on, boy' has a completely negative connotation. Includes overlooking everything -- from harassing women on streets, public transport etc to such grave incidents. Amazing how the cockpit crew just carried onto another flight after this severely disturbing episode. We are a very overpopulated country, so I guess, lives don't matter. And such callous cover-ups don't happen without an active collusion between private enterprises and those who are supposed to be watching over them. Just to close, Jet Airways has died since then, and not too soon.
As a former FR cabin crew I can confirm you can hear everything from the forward jumpseat. The crew and probably first 1-2 rows of passengers would have heard the bank angle and ground proximity warnings. I would have been terrified!
That's probably the most unnerving situation ever, to be a passenger and hear "Terrain Terrain, Pull Up, Pull Up". I'd think that's the end if I heard that!
This is what I really like about your videos. You are not here to assign blame or talk one bad word about ANYTHING or ANYONE! 100% professional and educational! Yes we would all like to ask these two: "WTH WERE YOU THINKING!?" but that's not for here!!! Thank you!
Dear Petter, I experienced a go-around due to low visibility a week ago and, thanks to your channel, of which I am a proud Patreon supporter, I could explain to my partner what was going on and why it was good for our safety. We ended up landing on the opposite runway at the second attempt. A bit of surprise, but no panic ☺️ So, thank you!
@@dannydaw59 that only works if the airplane is equipped and airport they're landing at has the necessary equipment up and running to communicate with the airplane's computers. The plane can have the newest and best autopilot in the world, but if the airport doesn't have the calibrated positioning equipment to tell the plane where it is, then it's not going to help at all. With an equipped plane and airport, then yes a plane can land itself in zero visability.
In the past I would have freaked out if I was on a plane that had to go around. Nowadays I would know it was safer than trying to land in less than ideal conditions.
@@dannydaw59 Yep, listen to @Stephen Torrey! Also, I think it'd be a pretty rough landing, I don't think AP can perform a flare quite like a human who has visibility of the runway. I'm no expert though. Good for an emergency like this case though, if they had diverted to Bangalore as planned which had ILS! EDIT: Looks like higher category ILS is suitable for full autoland, but Wikipedia's Autoland article has some kinda harrowing paragraphs about a "ballistic" phase which makes me not at all surprised that usual practice is for pilots to take over once they have visual, which is allowed to be rather low when the instruments have brought them down. I think maybe about 300 ft high or 90 m? Not much. I'd be interested to learn more about guidelines on when autoland is used but my impression is that it's mostly emergency or demonstration and not routine.
Man I cannot express how informative these videos are. I either learn something new or expand upon skills every time one of these episodes come out. And the production quality has increased so much from when you were just sitting at your desk using NTSB simulations and it gets better every video. Please never end this series.
@@TomDooner The combination of laying out the facts, explaining them, and relating the story in the same light as it actually happened makes Petter's videos spectacular.
As a passenger, I’ve been on a very similar flight to this from Phuket to Don Mueang in BKK. The first approach was aborted after severe wind shear at a few hundred feet, the second was aborted at about 1,000 feet and the third was a touch and go. Diverted to Suvarabhumi which took two attempts before landing. Refuelled there then back to Don Mueang for another aborted landing. On the 7th attempt we landed safely about 2 hours late but very relieved.
Out of hundreds of flights I thankfully have only experienced one hard landing going into SFO, where we had an instruments only approach into extreme fog with zero visibility. I still remember the bone jangling touch down. It sucked.
As a retired widebody Captain for a US major airline. I always discussed prior to a low vis approach at what point would we divert to the alternate airport. aka known as bingo fuel. Sticking to a known plan reduced the stress and everybody was in the loop on what the plan was going to be. I can't imagine doing six missed approaches and feeling the walls closing in. I'm going to bet he'll never make this mistake again after scaring the crap out of himself
This is one reason why this report by Mentour Pilot is so important - new pilots need to learn that there is no reason why any pilot should have to find themselves in a situation where only extraordinary skill or luck can save the day. It is better to play it safe and be told that you could have done something different to save the company a little money, than take a risk that ends up costing you your job.
Despite the use of the term across the military and civilian aviation broadly, "bingo fuel" still makes me think of a grandmother with a stack of cards, marker, and a case of Red Bull ready to tear it up...
So many of these accidents happen to above average to exceptional flight crew. Makes you wonder if part of the issues are complacency rather then skill level. I actually work with many Air Canada pilots and co-pilots and most of them are extremely serious about flying and hit the simulator and take on insanely difficult situations that make them look bad and forces errors. Many pilots have an ego and tend to avoid this necessary part and do the minimum. But in the case of larger carriers this is more rare.
Well, anyone could be perfect on the ground with no pressure. . . I will trust whoever pilot i got on my flight and hope im not that unlucky as accident probability in the air is very low.
Being a frequent flyer I once had a terrifying approach in a severe tropic thunderstorm in Abidjan, Côte d’Ivoire. The plane was bumping up and down and flashings were lightening the cabin. There was a steep turn- around and then a long silence from the cockpit. We finally landed safely in Accra, Ghana. When all pax were waiting for immigrations and the pilots where passing by everybody was cheering them.
You know, I haven't flown a plane in years now - but watching this video, as more and more information was revealed, I could feel my stress levels rising in response to what was going on. The way to not die in aviation is to always have a plan B, and then know when its time to give up and use the plan B. When you're on plan B - you want to be thinking about a plan C as well. Yet its so easy to become focused and committed to the point that no alternate plans are available. That's when things get serious. All in all, good presentation of the video and scenario.
I have always been anxious about flying but I flew spirit on my first ever flight and it was storming really badly when we were landing. They tried landing several times and had to do several go arounds and there was really bad turbulence the entire time so the plane was shaking and it was making it feel like the plane was falling several times. All the passengers were holding onto their seats and the girl next to me was praying. Everyone was freaking out a bit, myself included. They tried landing again and finally did it but that was AFTER all the other incoming flights were diverted and outgoing flights canceled. It was terrifying, even the pilot came over the intercom saying it was scary for them too.
@@thatssovenus Thought it was normally just 2 go arounds then divert to alternate airport unless weather improves , as your using up fuel required to divert ?
@@ArsenGaming You would think would be legal implantations as your depleting your fuel required for a divert ! isn't there a minimum amount of contingency fuel legally required ?
So 10+ years ago I was a flight test engineer on the 787-8. One of the tests we did, had the scenario of a pilot that was determined to land while visibility was below minimums and broke through the clouds offset to the runway. We started the series of tests at the minimum call out and offset by 150ft. On each landing attempt, we did a full yoke turn to align with the runway and a full yoke turn to straighten back out. We would progress down another 25 feet to start the maneuver each landing attempt. Starting with the attempt at 250ft AGL, the pilot was banging the yoke so hard we could hear it over the intercom. The air flow over the wings during the turn roared, and the engine strake vortexes were huge. We were getting bank angle warnings on every attempt. By the 150ft attempt, the pilots were getting very concerned at making the plane level by touch down, as we needed to bank almost 45 degs to make the slide, and this is an airplane with 90ft of wing on each side. We did one more round at 125ft and the pilots called it off after that, it was too low, they couldn't level the plane for touch down, and the wing was getting very close to the ground in the turn. Now to hear that a pilot actually tried to do this with passengers onboard is bonkers. We did this test to make sure there were no control feedback issues during the maneuver, but to do it when you have options to go else where is not good.
@@nabirasch5169 Not really. Well, a little bit -- but only a little bit. In hindsight, he should've chosen to divert to Coimbatore rather than Trivandrum. But he was being given bad information all along the way. He was told not once but twice that the weather at Cochin was fine, when it wasn't. And then he was later told -- again, not once but twice -- that the weather in Trivandrum as also fine for landing, when in fact it wasn't. You can't keep giving a pilot inaccurate and incorrect information again and again and again and expect him to make good decisions. __________________________________ Approaching Cochin: 7:32 “ATC reported that the weather was quite nice in Cochin...this was more or less exactly what the pilots expected.” And then 48 minutes later... 8:54 “As they were descending on the glideslope, it became more and more obvious that the weather was much worse than expected.” Initial weather info for Trivandrum: 10:12 “The captain checked what the weather was like in Trivandrum and it was given as 3000 meters, which was well above the minimum requirement for a VOR approach...” Updated weather for Trivandrum: 14:55 “ATC told the pilots that the latest weather for Trivandrum was 3000 meters...still perfectly okay for a VOR approach.” But then... 15:58 "At 06.30 local time... Trivandrum ATC told the crew...that the visibility has now gone gone down to 1500 meters, and that's a problem, because the minimum visibility to start the VOR approach for that runway was 2100 meters."
I'm not in the aviation industry but Mentour's content has me hooked. Even though I've subscribed to the channel I keep checking if a new video has come out
My dad is an ex navy aviator, and his one piece of advice that i always follow has been - Never change a plan at the last moment. Diverting to VOBL as per briefing , would have saved the pilots a whole lot of trouble
Hey sir - Gotta say your content is so well done. You describe things that both a seasoned pilot such as myself can understand while also breaking it down in such a way that the non-pilot can grasp with simplicity. Very very well done and excellent use of your sim software to provide a picture (worth a thousand words truly) that along with your narrative makes the story come to life. Hats off to you. Fly safe friend.
I am totally with you on this. The decision to make a third approach (unless there is a big change in circumstances) is almost always wrong. If you do make a third attempt you are probably heading up an emotional blind canyon, the temptation is very much to take things a little further, go a little bit lower, shave a bit off the minima, plus you are now getting very tired. You need a break. Count the accidents that have happened on third approaches, I can think of a number, it is not a safe place to be. I also completely agree with the folly of committing yourself to a non-precision approach when the fuel is getting that low. Apart from anything else a modern aircraft can do an Autoland off almost any ILS. It will not be approved if the installation is not certificated, but it will almost certainly work. At the very least as someone said to me years ago "the crash will be on a runway close to a fire engine!" Of course, you will have to justify yourself afterwards, but the interview with the manager/CAA official (without coffee or biscuits) is a lot better than being dead.
I love you put videos of the flights that ended OK, and not only disaster ones. In swiss cheese model this one went through all holes, but one. That one saved the day - and lots of lives.
I was a cabin crew for 9 years in Russia and many times found myself being stuck in the “waiting for better weather” circles around different airports as well as missed approaches (usually due to heavy snowstorms or insanely dense fog during winter in Siberia and other parts of the country). Now that I retired I found your channel and I realize how many times I downplayed/didn’t understand what was going in the cockpit during those times 😅 thanks for your videos they are very informative but if I was pax I’d be scared to fly after them 😂😂
I was thinking the same thing! I was not cabin crew, but I’ve been in these situations many times through the decades of my work. I now realize that maybe I should have been more scared! Lol
If you think "waiting for better weather" is dangerous in general I think you got the wrong takeaway from the video. This can be done safely if the proper procedure is followed and if you account for it when calculating fuel. If you know you're flying to an airport with rapidly changing weather (Fog that's very dense one minute and clear the next is a typical example) it's possible to just take extra fuel to give the margin to wait a bit. Although Russian aviation being Russian aviation who knows if this was done.
@@SuperGenericUser Yes. But in this case it was India in the Monsoon Season, rhe visibility was steadily decreasing and the original alternate Airport was for a reason further away from the coastline. A reason that this Captain obviously wasn't aware.
@@SuperGenericUser Thats it, so you may be scared to fly in India, but not in Europe/Northern America. Not the weather is the problem, but the dealing with it.
This was a tricky weather situation. With the reported weather, I would have considered the first ILS approach to be a "piece of cake". What followed next is something we all can learn from. Well presented, Petter! A year ago, I made an ILS approach into an airport where the weather was reported to be good visibility and clouds at 1,000 feet. The approach minima was 200 feet. But when we reached minima, we could not see the runway and had to go around. Later on, I learned that ATC at that airport would always report the clouds to be at 1,000 feet because they could not measure it...
I must commend you on how much you have improved the quality of your videos from the beginning of this marvelous adventure 'til now... the new introduction is spectacular, and the sponsoring display on the right lower corner just pitch perfect. You are awesome in what you do, and I am so glad to have the chance of watching your videos! Thank you, really!
Yes I remember this flight well, my friends grandmother was on it, and I heard that it shook her up so badly that she was taken to hospital, and never really quite got over it, and sadly she died of a stroke a week later, I don't no much more of what went on other than that, but it was said by the doctors that that was the major contributory factor.
@@mikek5298 The pilots? Or the weather guys? The pilots assumed the weather guys were telling the truth and then encountered consistently much worse conditions.
@@mikek5298 Stress can cause the heart to work harder, increase blood pressure, and increase sugar and fat levels in the blood. These things, in turn, can increase the risk of clots forming and travelling to the heart or brain, causing a heart attack or stroke. But what would a dr know?
If I need to choose any pilot in the world who will be my host on my flight, I will always choose you. Your explanations are very clear, detailed and interesting at the same time. Your voice is so pleasant to listen and u seems like a calm person with amazing energy. So glad to discovered this channel
Petter, that was amazing narrative. You are a wonderful story-teller. Looking at the flight report, this was not a spectacular event. The 6 go-arounds plus a safe landing sounds interesting - almost ho-hum. But… the way you put the viewer in the pilot’s seat was riveting. Real drama. There was no way that I was going to bail when you paused for a commercial. Thanks - a better video than anything on Netflix. At the same time, I learned lots about the procedures that are in place to manage situations like this.
This exact incident happened to me when I was flying from Kolkata (CCU) to Port Blair (IXZ). We made more than 4 approaches into Port Blair only for the pilot to say we don’t have fuel to return back to Kolkata, we will try our best to reach Phuket, Thailand as it’s closer. It was one of the most terrifying and nerve wracking incidents of my life.
Pilots often have a sense of humor. I remember one apologizing for our flight leaving late because of a piece in one of the engines being defective but not-to-worry because he'd decided that was okay.
Wow! That was just frightening, like you , I never try to judge the guys in the cockpit - but I certainly would have been more conservative. My personal rule is to never do more than two missed approaches into the same airport after than I head to my alternate. So, it was helpful to hear that your company has a similar rule. Thanks from a fellow Scandinavian.
What is your company's police? If you're relying on a personal rule of thumb, then it sounds like your company is not providing proper guidance - exactly like in the video we just saw.
@@LetoDK every pilot should have personal minimums (guidelines) Regardless of company guidelines, even if the personal and corporate guidelines are teh same. As Todd points out, he also may not be a commercial pilot.
@@SoloRenegade yeah he's probably just a casual pilot and similarly I would do the same in this situation. I've gone around twice and maybe I'll get lucky and hit the third time, but then again? Maybe I'll go around 7 more times so it's not worth the risk especially when the weather is the same where I'm headed
I love what you emphasized at the end of this video. You stated that you didn’t know what happened to the pilots after this crazy incident and more so that you didn’t care because the point of these stories isn’t to lay blame but to LEARN from them. Far too many videos don’t do this and use their opinions as justification for consequences. It makes me appreciate and enjoy your videos even more. Amazing job Petter. You truly are an asset to aviation and to RUclips as a whole.
One of the best things I learned from my Flight Instructor was: The three most useless things you can have while flying are 1.) Runway behind, 2.) altitude above, and 3.) Fuel in the fuel truck...
@@jollyrogerq just a guess here, but a runway behind you means there isn't one in front of you....to land on. Altitude above you means that you are potentially too low and could hit something. Buildings, trees and such are only so tall, so at some point you are presumably safe from hitting anything.
@@jollyrogerq Altitude above. - If your engine quits, altitude above you is useless. Only altitude below will let you glide to a safe landing spot. Runway behind - Useless both for takeoff and landing. If you aren't in the air by the end of the runway, you are screwed. By the same token, if you havent stopped by the end of the runway, same thing.
Can someone explain why you wouldn't take substantially more (maybe 30%+) for every flight? I understand more weight burns more fuel but at least it doesn't crash planes. Watched several of these where everyone on a plane was killed when it ran out of fuel? Why cut it close at all??? Excess fuel when you land is never wasted because the next crew adds to it anyway, correct? I'm ignorant to how this works so maybe someone can set me straight. Cheers
Must have been a really stressful situation for the pilots, going for visual approaches while barely being able to see outside your window and with fuel running out. Great video as always!
Of course it was stressful. As is crashing and dying. In many cases of injury (especially sports like ski jumping) it has been advised to go back as early as possible to not let the fear of failure stop you completely. I have of course nothing to judge if they were calm enough to fly, but some people really stay cool as a cucumber under pressure and are not worse for wear. They likely did have the time to come down from any adrenaline …
with the life style there.. it may just be another tuesday.. indians are no stranger to high pressure and competitive environment.. doesn't mean what they did was correct.. but likely.. the mentalities are different from western society..
This flight slightly reminded me of the Lamia 2933 flight. Pilot recklessness that led to fuel emergencies, unfortunately with casualties in this case. That accident was heartbreaking.
@@VanquishedAgain But their original diversion airport had ILS approach available to them, whoch meant they could have easily landed there even with reduced visibility. Captain should have agreed to divert after the second go-around when they still had the fuel availabile to make it there
This was an absolutely fascinating video for someone who has an amateur interest in aviation and very limited knowledge on how all of this actually works. Thanks!
I have a lot of sympathy for the FO. He did tell the Captain, that diverting to an airport with no ILS was dubious. Instead, the Captain ignored him and backed them into a corner, triggering what was just a desperate fight to survive. Hey Mentour, how about doing a video on Air Europa UX-911 at Katowice. Now, there was a crazy flight. Report is on AvHerald.
On 28 October 2007, a Boeing 737-800 under the command of a Training Captain occupying the supernumerary crew seat touched down off an ILS Cat 1 approach 870 metres short of the runway at Katowice in fog at night with the AP still engaged.
Now I'm intrigued! I work as CC in Katowice and didn't know there was an incident here, thanks for this comment because I'll now be looking into this 🤣
Thank you for your videos. By far my favorite summaries of recent aviation events. I'm a SWA pilot and appreciate your objective accuracy and unbiased subjective view points. The format, animation and chronological descriptions for first rate. Keep'em coming!
In no relation to the video, but I've been watching your videos for a little bit and I just so happened to recently get a job in the aviation industry. The way that you explain the technology and techniques that are relevant to the incidents, even though you could tell the story without going into so much detail, has been incredibly helpful. Thank you
You are an outstanding example on making air transportation safer for all of us. How you present the situation and give us an insight on what the pilot may have been thinking adds a layer of understanding that is crucial to evaluating the situation. Thank you for all your hard work and effort. Do know it is having a positive effect. Be happy, be safe
I am not a crew member myself (yet), but after reading through the comments here, I feel so anxious and nervous, not about my future flights but the experiences you all have had... Kudos to all!!
Thanks for another great researched and presented short film Petter. Really good. I can’t believe they piloted another flight immediately after that! And this was only 7 years ago; it’s not like it was 40 years ago where safety guidance wasn’t where it is today.
Maybe the aviation safety mindset in India is 40 years behind? Someone commented on another thread that "Indians are used to high pressure situations" and basically inferred that perhaps the pilots weren't affected by this incident too much and that's why they took the subsequent flight. Scary. I was on edge just listening to Petter recount the incident.
@@toddsmith8608 The astonishing point here is that this Captain was very careful and descent at the beginning - taking a lot more fuel than necessary and choosing a real safe alternate Airport - but then he mismanaged everything in a way that he found himself finally in the situation: land the aircraft blindly or dy.
Fueling in aviation always seems like such a deep rabbit hole, it's something I have great respect for. It's never as simple as just adding more fuel. The fuel itself is a payload, requiring even more thrust and fuel to carry. The solution seems to multiply the problem. Definitely way over my head.
That's why the military use in flight refueling on missions a long way from base. However do notice that you always get some extra range from adding extra fuel, even though (as you say) it's not as much as a naïve calculation might suggest.
@@DoubleMonoLR Cost is certainly the most common, but not the only reason. (A) You can also have upper limits for fuel because with your cargo it brings you over max weight. This is particularly an issue for helicopters. (UH-1 Huey+warm vietnam summer day+full fuel = probably unable to lift off even with no cargo) (B) When supply chains are compromised, there may be no fuel to load. (C) If maneuverability matters enough, you want less inertia from less mass. Military aircraft are far more likely to run into these than commercial aviation.
I fly a 767. I like what you said about 2 approaches and divert. I have had situations where I might have been able to get into the primary using different approaches but I’m not that daring and bold. I have just gone to the alternate. The primary airport will still be there later when things improve.
In 1975 I was a passenger on a British Airways VC10 flight from the Seychelles to Colombo Sri Lanka. There were clouds below 1000 ft and two standard approaches failed. On the third approach the pilot flew a much longer diversion and made a straight in approach at well below 1000 ft altitude for the last 50km to stay under the cloud bank. As a passenger in a window seat in first class I can only estimate the altitude but we seemed to be only a bit above the treetops so I am certain we were under 500 feet. Back then I imagine there were no possible alternate airports for an aircraft as heavy as a VC10.
It's conflicting. The Captain made significant errors of judgement, while his First Officer probably should have been more forceful in telling him to stick to the pre-written flight plan. The rules breaking (before emergency was declared) was full of bad calls, and then once the mayday had been called it was still not the best-though I can understand the Captain just wanting to get the bird down. That they got the plane landed without any injuries was the shining light in the whole situation. It was a bad situation that got worse, but no one died and nothing was damaged. The absolutely terrible and unconscionable thing, though, was the report being half-assed. Reports are written in an environment where there *_isn't_* that life or death pressure. This flight may have had a happy ending, but that still doesn't mean the report shouldn't be completed with all seriousness and the weight of all those lives that didn't have to be spent that day.
@@LastofAvari thats the usual here, they will try toshift blame from the company to the pilots as much as possible. Pilots always end up getting the short end of the stick.
@@retardmoguss What? In almost all of those videos Mentour makes they also blame the company. Usually for insufficient training, insufficient guidelines or insufficient maintenance.
The serious pilot error of judgement, as layperson me sees it, was to change the diversion to a place that has no working precision approach and likely similarly bad weather. I just cannot understand that all the weather data, even coming straight from the control towers in the very weather, was that far away from reality. Did someone multiply the visibilities by 8 or something? PS: that pilot has serious by-the-pants blind flying skills and luck. Great when needed, but even better if it is never needed.
Incredible situation to be in and am so glad they eventually landed safely. I can only imagine the feelings of the passengers. Having been on board as a passenger myself during three go-arounds during a snowstorm, you do begin to fear the worst. Great video and detailed explanation. I would really like to see you do one on the harrowing flight of Jay Prochnow, who had a similar situation with being lost and running out of fuel. He was helped by Captain Gordon Vette of a DC-10 that was flying near his location and used basic navigation skills to help Jay find his way.
When I still was a flight attendant, i was on a flight to Faro. The weather was bad, a lot of seafog. The cpt briefed us about it in Brussels and we had extra fuel for it. Still, we did 3 go arounds. After the 3rd attempt I told my purser I didn't like it, pax became anxious as well. She told me that they would manage but that she was also worried however she didn't feel lile disturbing the pilots but I disagreed with her on the situation. I entered the flight deck and told the pilots that I felt that we were burning a lot of fuel, pax getting worried and that I felt that go around after go around would also make them tired and possibly less concentrated and suggested we would go to Sevilla. The cpt acknowledged this, told me they would try one more attempt and otherwise would go to the alternate. The purser now told me she was glad I spoke up and that she didn't have the courage. After landing the captain called for me. I expected a reprimand but he told me he was glad with my input and that it was a good example of good CRM. They had calculated fuel for multiple attempts in Faro but were unaware of how the cabin crew and pax felt. As crew member, always speak up if you feel something is getting unsafe. I also new that this wasn't to my knowledge according to our company procedures. We normally could try 2 attempts before going to the alternate if I remember correctly. I can't even imagine how the cabin crew and pax on 9W-555 have felt about it.
@@MentourPilot here in india this year they have released a movie on same topic… Movie name Runway 34.. i request you to watch that… and they were suspended for few weeks and back again to work as shown in movie…. actor name : Ajay devgan.. Waiting for your reply
@Mentour & Team You keep getting better and better! It *really* helped me that you went over the fuel numbers at multiple moments in time. That really put into perspective how much (/little*) fuel they still had left! (if you'd just talked about the thousands of kilograms, I only could have thought of family cars as a proxy unit of measurement - but because you told us how much fuel gets used, and by saying how much fuel remained after each go around, even passengers like me get a sense of just how bad things were) Thanks for continuing to raise the bar! It's truly *the* best aviation channel _worldwide._
I cannot even begin to imagine... it seems the first officer had a little more caution about the situation that he tried sharing with the captain. Can't believe they were just able to jump back in and keep going that day.
The co-pilot did not have the total time to understand the mess the flight crew was in. So how could he have advocated? And, I agree.....stop there and then, after the airplane is parked safely at the gate. This mess goes deeper than the flight crew. But, the flight crew, IMHO, showed poor judgment. Ya know, there are such TRENDS in interpreting weather forecasts at destinations, alternates, etc. So, I stick with my assessment. Poor preparation, and poor judgment. Yes, I'm an old farmer's son, but knew enough in studying the clouds and trends....learning from my dad.......Even my dispatchers agreed with my decisions. Not arrogant, just grateful. Plus, there are other considerations with minimum landing fuel. Uh, like aircraft limitations.....NOT OP SPEC minimums. I may have had 4 stripes on my shoulders, but the LORD was, and is My Captain. Not once, were mechanical failures considered, based on this video, considered. And I'm not talking about necessarily engine failure. Crew malfunction. They were very lucky.
@@sandybanjo what do you mean? The first officer had all the same info as the captain. He was even more cautious in checking info before they left, which is why he knew before going that they would only have non precision approach at the new alt. He was on the flight deck for the whole thing, too.
@@sandybanjo by total time, are you talking about his total flight time? Saying that he was less experienced overall? I can understand that, I'm sure it would factor into what happened as well. Maybe had he had more time, he would have been more direct in saying "this is insane"??
Absolutely love to hear and see your work. What I particularly like is that you are trying to make the aviation system better and to learn from these mistakes and disasters. Well done and thank you
Thanks for telling. There were indeed some significant mistakes made prior to declaring emergency. Although I would say ignoring the rules on the final attempt to get the bird down is fully understandable. At this point, it was a live or death situation
I am in ♥️ with this newfound channel! No speculations, no dramatic music, no nonsense. I love simple, easy to understand style of the narrative yet I've learned so much new from this video. And of course once you see mist on your route, you have to take into consideration it might turn into a full blown fog, so an airport providing instrumental landing system approach should be an absolute priority when choosing the alternate option. Tack så jättemycket!
Looking at these videos, at first I thought it might scare me about flying but accually it has had the opposite result. I am glad to hear that almost every accident is investigated and lead to it almost never happening again. You explain in a truly great way and I enjoy watching these. So thank you for all your hard work. If you ever do a video on the crash that took the lives of a whole hockey team in Russia, with Swedish goalie Stefan Liv included, I will most definitely watch it. I know some of it but that one seems like a lot of things went very wrong. And again, thank you for your videos. Even went the result was horrific I like watching them (it sounds so wrong) because of what we learned.
@@MentourPilot I to feel safer flying and now always pay attention to the safety lessons in the beginning. I actually always assumed the floatation device was under the seat, until my last flight I saw that it was in a spot above the seat. When I said it out loud, the travellers beside me said, “Thank goodness one of us was paying attention “. ❤️
Every accident gets investigated. Not "almost" every incident. Unfortunately, no other industry is as driven to determine "best practices," or protecting customers, themselves, or their industry. Literally none.
It's good to see a video from Mentour featuring an incident, albeit an unfortunate one, from my hometown, Trivandrum! On the plus side, it was a safe landing. One interesting thought as someone who frequently flew that route is that usually these flights would be carrying Indians working in the Middle East (NRI) visiting home on leave for a short duration and being diverted from Cochin to Bangalore (another state) would be a bit more difficult to accept than being diverted to TVM. Not sure if this played any part in the incident. As always, thanks for yet another awesome video :) 🍻
I think being diverted a bit further away is preferred over dying, by all passengers. And while they made it this time, they came very close to not making it. I would almost say it was pure luck.
I can imagine them landing at Bangalore and then being stuck there for so long they'd end up having to go back to Doha without seeing any of their family. That might of been part of the thought process, Jet wasn't going to pay for a last minute aircraft to rush them down to the airport they should have landed at.
MP... you're simply the best. There are many who try to emulate you, but not even close. As a retired aviator from earlier times, I find enhanced learning and knowledge from these unfolding episodes. Well done MP, keep up the good work.
Being an Indian, it feels great to see a video emphasizing a flight to and fro India! If I am not wrong we had a very recent film based out of this named "Runway 34". At the end it feels great to have not come across loss of lives pertaining to this incident in the video. Always on the lookout for your new videos...GO MENTOUR!!! 😀
@@vikashkthakur exactly. They did not even do the basic RUclips research....they were pronouncing runway number itself wrongly ..it should be three four...not.thirtyfour...
I was a passenger on an overnight flight from Heraklion, Crete into London Gatwick on a 737. There was fog at Gatwick and we were in a holding pattern for several hours. Then we were told that due to fuel and fog we had to divert to RAF Marsden. The aircraft flew through some steeper turns and then we landed, but it wasn't the RAF base, our pilots had got us into Gatwick. They told us afterwards that they had seen a break in the weather used it to safely land the aircraft. Since we had been diverted to an RAF base does that mean that we had become a fuel emergency?
I would say yes. Most RAF bases don’t accept a commercial flight unless you’re an emergency or for a unique, pre-planned request, for obvious reasons. There have been ATC recordings of pilots having issue and requesting to land at a military base and being denied. Then they declared a fuel emergency and then they were automatically able to land at that military airport that ATC had denied them to minutes before. So yes, 99% likely a fuel emergency was declared, especially if holding for a while, pilots would opt to be safer than sorry. A few years ago there were issues with London airports due to the weather and there were MANY fuel emergencies declared within a few hours due to so many go arounds. Some diverted to France despite Heathrow/Gatwick etc being their destination. Good thing in the UK is there are plenty of airports within a short distance and as we Brits know, the weather across a county border can be the complete opposite! Winter on one side and summer on the other 😂
Actually that was my first thought, why there was no guidance from the airlines to how many missed approaches are allowed. Interesting video, less dramatic but very informative.
I can't imagine the stress the crew and passengers must have felt. Closest I can get is from my own flying experience in my small single engine plane in good weather when I was still new with it. I had 3 go arounds at an unfamiliar airport because of bouncing my landings. The feeling of being trapped in the air is like nothing else. My 4th approach was successful because at the suggestion of ATC, I left the airport environment and took a few minutes away to regroup before returning. That's with the luxury of fuel. This video's flight seems so much more terrifying.
regrouping when possible is always a good choice. when driving a car and you dont feel good or angry, just stop, take some breathm close your eyes for a minute and go on. its always better to take a 5 minute break (when possible or just fly 5 minutes straight) than beeing 5 weeks in hospital and cause damage to others
This is why I rarely flew anywhere where I did not have DOUBLE the fuel that I needed to get to my second alternate and make 3 missed approaches there. Now that is something that you can do in a GA aircraft that you probably would NOT do in a large commercial aircraft (the extra weight of all of that fuel might severely limit how many passengers (Revenue or otherwise) you can carry.
I recall a Flying magazine "I learned about flying from this" item about a man who was ferrying a load of lawyers to a hilltop strip in a Cherokee Six. Weather deteriorated, icing made it impossible to hold altitude, and the localizer was telling him the wind was blowing him off course on final. He watched helplessly as, at full power, he descended toward field altitude... 200 feet above... 100 feet...field elevation... 50 feet below.... The wind had blown him to the side of the hill and he shed the ice before he ran out of altitude.
What a tough situation to get yourself into. The video doesn’t touch on this but we have internal company briefing charts with major threats at different airports in case we are not familiar with the area that helps a lot in decision making. Some airports have patches of low clouds that you can see the whole runway except for the threshold on short final, wx is reported as bkn 200ft most of the time with really good horizontal visibility, this condition will remain the same for hours until the sun comes out. Its very tempting to hold a bit expecting for that little patch to move but with calm winds it wont move and we have to divert.
Firstly, been off work this week with bad flu - you’ve saved me! Love your films. Have you done anything on Alderney? I used to love watching the Trilanders attempting to land in the storms there! Watched one pilot try 3 times before deciding to head to Jersey! You’re on my list of favourite creators, thanks.
I have always traveled by plane since I was a young girl, without any fear. Then a series of events resulted in a height phobia. Suddenly I started having terrible panic attacks during the flight, which got worse with each trip. After a few years and a lot of work on me I was able to understand the reason for the phobia and I felt ready to try again, but just then there was the attack on the twin towers. Since then I haven't had the courage first, then the opportunity to fly. This channel helps me a lot to deal with my trauma, which will never be erased but can be managed with rational tools. If I get on a plane again, it will also be thanks to Petter Hornfeldt.
This is an amazing story. I can’t imagine being a passenger after the 3rd go around. I personally wouldn’t be too scared or mind too much with a go around because I like being in planes so it would just extend the time.
Great video as always. Maybe you could cover the disaster of Königs Wusterhausen in 1972. It had its 50 year „anniversary“ this month. The aircraft was a Iljuschin II-62 and had a construction error.
I like your content. So often I get tired of the same creator, but I've been with you for about three years and always enjoy what you have. I am a former flight instructor and 21 years as an air traffic controller.
Many years ago a similar event occurred with a 707 flight into an east coast airport. During landing and roll out at the alternate, total fuel exhaustion occurred. Crew called for a tug assisted pull to the gate because of a “steering hydraulic issue”. Thus no emergency had been or was declared. Only the airline was aware of it. This was, of course, an time when everything from CRM, procedures, emergency notification requirements, dispatching and flight requirements were much different.
Excellent video, as always. Just want to give Petter mad props for pronouncing Thiruvananthapuram so well. I lived in India for two years and still struggle with that one!
When you said the plane made a successful landing I could feel the tension leave my shoulders. I 1000% agree with you that the crew should not have flown until they had time to reorient themselves - a night's sleep was in order. I am not a pilot but I have been in dicey situations on the ground a few times; the surreal sense of "this is going badly" was accompanied by a short period of good focus and a longer period of confusion if the situation is not quickly resolved. The souls on board that flight were very lucky indeed.
It’s india, they would have been terrified that they would loose the prestige of flying and their income. The company would have been like “get that fucking plane back to base with more paying passengers”. They were lucky the captain put that much fuel on board.
@@azzajohnson2123 lucky ? he saw the weather was bad and took on extra fuel. dont take these biased videos too seriously, he has dual standards for European and non European pilots. Like he does not explain what were the options with the pilot if the alternate airport was also heavily fogged out ? What did he expect the pilots to do ?
@@mviv6339 Considering the pilot's experience, I would say it was a significant but - as it turned out - inadequate amount of extra fuel. I am completely unfamiliar with weather in that region but I doubt this was something the pilot had never experienced. The question is: why didn't he select a second alternate? The rules exist to keep us from doing stupid things, not to make us do smart things. That is what I expect pilots to do: smart things.
I think this one got me caught up in the events more than any of the others, although the others have been as perilous. I can't say exactly why that was so, but maybe part of it was the prolonged peril.
Ditto here, I was stuck to my seat, and I am an airforce pilot and we do crazy things with our own life but when responsible for others, is a different vector
@@MentourPilot Your presentation was great. I literally did not know how this would turn out until you told us; you didn't give it all away earlier in the video. I was prepared to hear that the flight had crashed and killed everyone aboard or that it had all ended safely.
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Hi Petter.
Video has been up 8 minutes according to YT, and you have 207 likes already!
You must be doing something right! More power to your elbow!
Are u swedish?
Hello!
Peace!
Yes, he is.
Wow, that was tense!
As you asked, I was not a passenger on this flight, but I was the on-duty Air Traffic Controller at Cochin that day (Since then I have moved to a different airport). I remember that night very clearly as it was one of the more eventful days early on in my career.
Initially, we were of course not aware of the developing emergency, but we did provide all possible assistance to the aircraft. The next morning, after consulting with my colleagues at Trivandrum airport I got to know about the emergency declaration and the final report took more than a year to come out. This did lead to more detailed fueling guidance by DGCA (the regulatory body). We have used this as a case study in our refresher training courses also.
About the video, as usual, it's very well done (But I am watching this almost a year after you published it). There are some minor mistakes like the procedure for RWY27 at Cochin involves a base turn and not a procedure turn as shown in the video and the holding and flight paths (I might have the flightradar24 screenshots because I was new and it was an eventful night lol)
woah that had to have been scary even to atc. props you you kind sir 🫡
MHannn
😲😲
One thing I could not understand is there are so many airports nearby ( international) and why the pilots have chosen TRV instead of CJB ( which has been clearly marked as a good alternate ) plus fog will not be there in CJB. Even if they do not want to go to the next state , there are options other than TRV in Kerala itself. I think 6-7 airports are within 20 minutes flying time.
@@prasannasrinivasan4909 That's what I was thinking earlier. Why Trivandrum? Why not coimbatore?
Thanks! I haven't flown since the early 90s. I'm 70y/o, retired, and essentially home bound but still enjoy learning. I always enjoy your presentations, much / most of which is due to your personal informative approach and enthusiasm. Keep doing what you do.
Thank you so much for your generous support of the channel! It is so great to hear that you enjoy my content and your help means a lot!
aint no way you paid 25 dollars for yt
@@stephenjacobs5640It’s a tip, not for YT but for Petter out of a completely understandable appreciation of his fine work.
@@stephenjacobs5640you must be broke.
@@stephenjacobs5640 70% of these donations go to the creator, youtube takes a cut of 30% which includes taxes and fees
I was in this flight. Just a 12 year old kid trying to get to my uncle's house desperately. Nobody gave us any information, and we were strapped to our seats for about 90 minutes during all go arounds and landings. There were only 2 announcements by the pilot, that was for bad weather before the failed first landing and the next one for the alt airport. personally we couldnt feel that we were so close to terrain before approach. i cant even imagine being in the cockpit for this one
@Mentour Pilot: Your fuel calculation reminds me of my very first solo traffic pattern in a very small propeller aircraft. To compensate the missing weight of the flight instructor, the instructor told me to fill up all tanks to maximum. Just after takeoff the tower questioned me how long I'm able to stay airborne. My answer was: "2 hours plus 1 hour reserve". After that the tower announced me that the runway was blocked and the airfield was closed because the aircraft with glider in tow which tried to take off direct after me had an accident. So I had to make my first cross country flight just from the spot without any preparation. I neither had a gps navigation nor a paper map, this was about 0,5m in my back, unreachable for me. There was a simple traffic pattern planned and not a cross country flight. So they diverted me not to the nearest but the most easy to find airfield. As I arrived there, I remember the grandfatherly voice of the air traffic controller and the full service after touch-down. Kudos for the instructor who told me to fill up all fuel tanks to its maximum even for a simple traffic pattern.
Now there's a real adventure, must've been exciting
I can't decide whether I'd be excited or scared shitless in that situation, glad to hear it worked out for you though!
@@eragonawesome I was scared at the flight because I thought the whole time: "Don't get lost in space. Hope I'll find any airfield to land." As I saw the airfield on arrival my mind changed rapidly to: "You are going to land this thing now, there is no question whether it will become good or bad, it'll be good!"; full self confidence to make it. There was not even a short moment for me to think about the fact that there is no flight instructor beside me. Do it!
Lessons learned of it:
- Whatever may happen, fly the aircraft at first!
- Fight tooth and nail to the bloody end.
- Sweat in practice safes blood in emergency.
You needed to compensate for missing weight? Would the airplane behave differently with the instructor missing?
Yes it does. Eben today when there is one passenger on the co-pilots seat it is a huge difference. Flying alone with tanks nearly empty the aircraft has a take-off weight of 360kg. With all tanks full and a person sitting beside me, I will reach the maximum take-off weight of 480kg. That is only a difference of 120kg but this means about 30% difference. You will feel it at the stick.
As a pilot myself, I know the anxiety these pilots were going through, but to have the lives of many passengers in your hands while this crisis is happening is just unthinkable. They should have taken 48 hours off before getting back in the cockpit, just to compose themselves
Or go to the nearest bar, slam down a few shots then get back up there
I think it´s very much an individual thing, why do I always watch Mayday before a flight? I love it. My best mate went rock climbing, fell and broke a lot of bones, the first thing he said when waking up at the hospital was: THAT WAS DOPE!!! Can´t wait to try it again. :- ... and he meant it.
@@AurioDKThe painkillers may have helped 😂
Sin e you're a pilot, let me ask: is it really so unreasonable to disable the audible alarm when they know the situation? Why is it against regulation to reduce your stress Inputs when you're trying to survive?
That pilot probably takes 5 to 6 different routes to reach his home even now 😂😂😂😂😂
I am a local in Trivandrum and an avid Flight Simmer. So some additional context - Jet Airways had started its decline as a carrier during that decade. And the management of the company in India was cutting corners everywhere. The crew must have been pressured to fly back partly because of this. Another reason, this route is extremely profitable for all airlines as it brings in Gulf bound and back Malayalee workers/emigrees. Packed fully and booked months ahead in time. The night time flight is the most sought after, given it is cheaper that suites many of the econoimy passengers. There is a lot of competition with other carriers on this a "milk that cow most" route. Quick turn arounds are considered by management as essential.
Another aspect is the weather, we are in the tropical humid climate belt and experiences heavy doses of misting and fog in the early morning hours during the monsoon season. The pilots would have been exposed to this before given the flight experience of the captain and the prominence of this route. Trivandrum is a coastal town and the runway is adjacent to the beach. This adds to the problem as the wind conditions bring in low clouds and mist from the sea. Also our weather in Kerala is heavily influence by the Western Ghats montain range creating a different weather pattern through out the State of Kerala where Both Cochin and Trivandrum is located in. Often both Airports face very similar conditions at the same time.
Bangalore is a city in central South India away from the Indian ocean and on the other side of the mountain range. It has much higher altitude and a totally different weather system. So picking Bangalore as the alternate was a better decision. Every other alternate they considered including Coimabtore does experience weather orginating in Indian Ocean. Given that Bangalore is in another state( costs airline more to bring the passengers back to destination) and a more costly airport to land in must have weighed in on the Captains mind. Remember the cost cutting that was going on. This is the reason I blame the airline management for making life more difficult for flight crews. Cost cutting is BAD for an Airline, especially in safety department.
Another aspect is cultural. In India there is this mentality to not question your seniors especially upper management. So even when they do dumb things, the juniors are supposed to show difference and respect . The captain trusted his own expertise and did not weigh in when the First officer expressed his concern.
Also I think there were cutbacks on all operations at Jet. In India there is a tendency to sweep details under the rug when it becomes an issue of blame throwing. Meticulous work is not favoured over quick fix approach. I am sure there would be Indians who would oppose this opinion, but understanding where we are lacking is very important process of learning. And in aviation there is no excuse as it involves people's lives.
Very well put.. and absolutely true
You are a local? How is your English better than 99.99% of English speakers?
@@forgottensage-o5o I had a good education and worked for years in Tech within India and abroad. Trust me, there are a lot of Indians who can write really good English!
@@gamernerd7139 agreed and kerala has the highest literacy rate in the country with a lot of english speakers so it isn't much of a surprise
i wanna be smart like this one day
I started following air accident investigations when I worked at sea as there's no better documented cases for understanding how the human brain reacts to stress. This case is a perfect example for everyone in all ways of life.
I also like it for seeing how quick things can escalate sometimes.
And how there are still scenarios after decades of modern aviation that have not happened before.
And of course, how great or even inhuman the pilots usually react to this.
Yes, indeed. And how quick a normal situation can transfer into a Life-or-Death-Situation when wrong decisions are made. The Panick during the seventh Approach must have been horrible - and not only for the Pilots! Imagine the People sitting in the Cabin who could do nothing! Horrible - simply horrible!☹
@@wernerderchamp Indeed.
@@NicolaW72 I presume the passengers were told the minimum necessary so they would not create a secondary crisis.
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You asked what happened to the Crew? Well the airline itself was under investigation for corporate malfeasance around this time. It shut down operations in 2019 and as of today there are some attempts to revive it. Corporate frauds / difficulties have an impact down the line. Airline companies in such difficulties endanger thousands of innocent lives and ought not to be allowed to fly until they straighten up and fly right - literally.
I have read that the captain was demoted because of this incident.
@@zippymk13 having the airline shut down operations usually results in pilots losing their job. I guess that could be a demotion.
@@hewhohasnoidentity4377 Yes. Whereever these Pilots are today, they didn´t work for Jet Airways. But that´s not the important Point here. Hail Mary, indeed!!!
The systemic tragedy is that because of such rigid safety standards, smaller businesses are even more likely to go under in the competitive game, while the big players, by my standards, are irresponsibly unsafe, too.
There is a general business war agenda of trying to throw hardships onto the whole market because big corporations have an easier time shouldering them while their small competitors are collapsing under them. It is an expression of how capitalism thrives on misery.
I am seeing news that Jet Airways is starting again. Not sure tho
I’m a new cabin crew and I’ve been watching this videos since my training trying to understand certain abbreviations or aviation words or sentences or SOPs and I love talking to the flight deck about all the things I learn from this channel. They are most impressed with my knowledge to say the least and are always happy to have me on the flight deck when I have my dinner and explain everything to me. Thanks a lot x
As a pilot, I have a rule of thumb for these kind of situations: you can either decide what to do on your own early on, or the situation will end up making the decision for you - and you likely won't be happy with the result. The captain did the latter and they avoided an accident by the absolute narrowest of margins as a result.
Was literally yelling “JUST STICK TO THE ORIGINAL PLAN!!!”
Rules provide the framework for decision making. The fact that another aircraft had made a successful landing after they had performed the go around was a pivotal factor in the pilot deciding to bend the rules until there was no way out.
" you can either decide what to do on your own early on, or the situation will end up making the decision for you - and you likely won't be happy with the result." You can apply this logic to ALLOT of things in life - your credit card, your health, the economy and ecology of your nation, And the ecology of the entire planet!
Are you even a commercial pilot though? I'm guessing not, because commercial pilots are supposed to have rules and frameworks governed by the airline they work for, and by professionalism. I bet your rule of thumb is not one of these rules.
@@candydandy2694 It is impossible to make a 'rule' for every situation that may occur, so, pilots need to be able to rely on their training and experience and tie it all in with common sense , and common sense may well include 'rules of thumb'... but it all comes under the broad category known as ADM (aeronautical decision making)
Thank you for making this video. The pilot was hailed as a local hero and got mixed reactions from media. After interrogation by airport authorities, both the FO and captain were suspended temporarily. The airlines shut down all its operations a few years back and have only recently revived the brand once again. Meanhile, both the pilot and FO have resumed their duties with separate airlines aand this whole incident has been made into a bollywood thriller movie named 'Runway 34'😀
That's actually a very humorous end to what could have been a very tragic story. The captain has a pretty cool full name too, Manoj Kumar Rama Warrier.
What do you do if one night you lose all engines, you're going down, and you don't like what you see in the landing lights? Turn the lights off.
@@KSparks80 Literally what my instructor said.
I'm going to hope there was song and dancing in that movie.
Probably not, but an Indian musical about a plane running out of fuel would be _awesome._ 😎
@@KSparks80
And if RAT doesn't deploy you won't have any lights anyway. 🤣
I was a flight attendant for 17 years on the 737 800. I had one incident that happened to be going into my home city where we had five go around. There was no communication from the cockpit and by the time we landed I was almost in tears
That sounds insane! Is that normal in these situations? Or should pilots be speaking with the flight attendants during such a situation? I honestly don't know and I'd be interested to learn what is common. I'm glad you landed safely.
We tried to land at JFK in NY. We went around about 5 times. No announcements until the capt finally took us to Philly in PA. The weather was poor and there was alot of traffic nowhere to park at JFK. So we eventually landed at Philadelphia far from NY.
@@sharoncassell9358 Wow. And you were a member of the flight crew? Or a passenger? That must have been frightening.
Wow, oh gosh.
@@lh457725 Always remember and order IS relevant: "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate"
If the cockpit didnt communicate thats probably because the two first tasks where already taking 100 % of their capabilities. It always amazes me how much some flight attendants in some compagnies are completely ignorant of the challenges the cockpit has to face, i dont expect them to be pilots themselves but at least not being completely in the dark when it comes to knowing the tasks their colleagues could be facing...
(Sorry in advance for spelling and grammar, english aint my mother tongue)
Oh my, the people in the cabin must have been terrified. I cannot imagine a flight crew making such bad decisions that left them with the only alternative to crashing was performing a Hail Mary blind landing. And then for the same flight crew to be allowed by their company to fly out the same day is unimaginable. There is no way they would have been mentally and emotionally fit to make that flight. Excellent review of a very bizarre situation!!
There is a movie on this as
Runway 34 , which should have been runway 32 lol 😂
Welcome to India my friend ;)
hail mary blind landing
@@tomaszdobrzanski2880 In fact, welcome to most of the world! (Latin America? Africa? E. Europe? Asia? YES.)
Well, its not clear the company "allowed" them.. we don't know what information between the arrival and departure was in the hands of the company or the managers in charge of staffing and scheduling flights. If the crew didn't specifically tell them a summary of the problems and express distress then they wouldn't know until the investigation got under way.
The structure of your storyline and how it builds up suspense through digestible bytes of information before presenting the conclusion is so engaging. Thanks for doing this great effort to educate us.
Awesome to hear! Thank you for supporting 💕
I agree and it’s done so without unnecessary and over-the-top dramatics.
As an Indian I am not surprised that the final report by the authorities was poorly written.
There's a saying, "Koi baath nahi. Chaltha hai" which basically means, "no worries, she'll be right"... which is the mindset of many of the authorities/governing bodies in India when it comes to safety.
We should investigate and document such close calls as closely as we document accidents. This was 99% of a catastrophic accident, the plane just so happened not to crash this time. We should treat that as we treat a crash. On another day, this would have been fatal.
Ah, "No worries, she'll be right" is a common mindset in Australia, too!
Chalta hain might as well be our national catchphrase hahaha
In India, 'let's move on, boy' has a completely negative connotation. Includes overlooking everything -- from harassing women on streets, public transport etc to such grave incidents. Amazing how the cockpit crew just carried onto another flight after this severely disturbing episode. We are a very overpopulated country, so I guess, lives don't matter. And such callous cover-ups don't happen without an active collusion between private enterprises and those who are supposed to be watching over them. Just to close, Jet Airways has died since then, and not too soon.
Ya ya fr. They never take things seriously
As a former FR cabin crew I can confirm you can hear everything from the forward jumpseat. The crew and probably first 1-2 rows of passengers would have heard the bank angle and ground proximity warnings. I would have been terrified!
Former EW here. Yup.
That's nuts!
That's probably the most unnerving situation ever, to be a passenger and hear "Terrain Terrain, Pull Up, Pull Up". I'd think that's the end if I heard that!
Especially since you also know that you're going to be among the first to slam into the ground... gods.
Never sit in the first few rows, got it!
This is what I really like about your videos. You are not here to assign blame or talk one bad word about ANYTHING or ANYONE! 100% professional and educational!
Yes we would all like to ask these two: "WTH WERE YOU THINKING!?" but that's not for here!!!
Thank you!
I guarantee whoever had to edit this video had "Thiruvananthapuram" in their clipboard history at least ten times.
It has a short english form of “Trivandrum” which is used more often and even in flights, i dont lnow why they planned to use the other one😂
Dear Petter, I experienced a go-around due to low visibility a week ago and, thanks to your channel, of which I am a proud Patreon supporter, I could explain to my partner what was going on and why it was good for our safety. We ended up landing on the opposite runway at the second attempt. A bit of surprise, but no panic ☺️
So, thank you!
Can the pilots land the plane only using instruments and gauges? I thought the flight computer can do the whole job of landing.
@@dannydaw59 that only works if the airplane is equipped and airport they're landing at has the necessary equipment up and running to communicate with the airplane's computers. The plane can have the newest and best autopilot in the world, but if the airport doesn't have the calibrated positioning equipment to tell the plane where it is, then it's not going to help at all. With an equipped plane and airport, then yes a plane can land itself in zero visability.
Wow, that's awesome that all of went well and you knew what to do in that certain situation.
In the past I would have freaked out if I was on a plane that had to go around. Nowadays I would know it was safer than trying to land in less than ideal conditions.
@@dannydaw59 Yep, listen to @Stephen Torrey!
Also, I think it'd be a pretty rough landing, I don't think AP can perform a flare quite like a human who has visibility of the runway. I'm no expert though.
Good for an emergency like this case though, if they had diverted to Bangalore as planned which had ILS!
EDIT: Looks like higher category ILS is suitable for full autoland, but Wikipedia's Autoland article has some kinda harrowing paragraphs about a "ballistic" phase which makes me not at all surprised that usual practice is for pilots to take over once they have visual, which is allowed to be rather low when the instruments have brought them down.
I think maybe about 300 ft high or 90 m? Not much.
I'd be interested to learn more about guidelines on when autoland is used but my impression is that it's mostly emergency or demonstration and not routine.
Man I cannot express how informative these videos are. I either learn something new or expand upon skills every time one of these episodes come out. And the production quality has increased so much from when you were just sitting at your desk using NTSB simulations and it gets better every video. Please never end this series.
As long as there are incidents or accidents that needs explaining, I’ll be here.
Thank you! 💕
Yeah, wow. Petter put more effort into this one than the actual accident investigators.
@@TomDooner lol.. thats what i thought.. he should become an investigator when he retires from flying
@@MentourPilot I hope one day you are one out of business then.😬
@@TomDooner The combination of laying out the facts, explaining them, and relating the story in the same light as it actually happened makes Petter's videos spectacular.
23:54 I felt a genuine sense of relief here! I was genuinely starting to panic. Superb description and storytelling by by Petter!
As a passenger, I’ve been on a very similar flight to this from Phuket to Don Mueang in BKK. The first approach was aborted after severe wind shear at a few hundred feet, the second was aborted at about 1,000 feet and the third was a touch and go. Diverted to Suvarabhumi which took two attempts before landing. Refuelled there then back to Don Mueang for another aborted landing. On the 7th attempt we landed safely about 2 hours late but very relieved.
Out of hundreds of flights I thankfully have only experienced one hard landing going into SFO, where we had an instruments only approach into extreme fog with zero visibility. I still remember the bone jangling touch down. It sucked.
O. M. G!!
@@LloydWaldo same...I only had a few bad turbulence issues and one hard landing.
Phuket airport needs to be banned. Insanely dangerous especially with 747s landing.
@@putt7515: It's that bad? More detail, please... sounds morbidly intruguing.^^
As a retired widebody Captain for a US major airline. I always discussed prior to a low vis approach at what point would we divert to the alternate airport. aka known as bingo fuel. Sticking to a known plan reduced the stress and everybody was in the loop on what the plan was going to be. I can't imagine doing six missed approaches and feeling the walls closing in. I'm going to bet he'll never make this mistake again after scaring the crap out of himself
This is one reason why this report by Mentour Pilot is so important - new pilots need to learn that there is no reason why any pilot should have to find themselves in a situation where only extraordinary skill or luck can save the day. It is better to play it safe and be told that you could have done something different to save the company a little money, than take a risk that ends up costing you your job.
I hope you're right!
Despite the use of the term across the military and civilian aviation broadly, "bingo fuel" still makes me think of a grandmother with a stack of cards, marker, and a case of Red Bull ready to tear it up...
As a mildly nervous flyer, I can think of no better sight than Mentour Pilot in the Captain's seat.
If it helps, there seem like a lot of crashes until you compare them to the vast number of flights that go off successfully.
So many of these accidents happen to above average to exceptional flight crew. Makes you wonder if part of the issues are complacency rather then skill level. I actually work with many Air Canada pilots and co-pilots and most of them are extremely serious about flying and hit the simulator and take on insanely difficult situations that make them look bad and forces errors. Many pilots have an ego and tend to avoid this necessary part and do the minimum. But in the case of larger carriers this is more rare.
Yes indeed, he would calmly explain in realtime to passengers how he is performing the sixth goarround 😁
Captain: "Ladies and Gentlemen, weather is exceptional, and I can promise you this one thing: we WILL be on ground very soon, dead or alive!"
Well, anyone could be perfect on the ground with no pressure. . . I will trust whoever pilot i got on my flight and hope im not that unlucky as accident probability in the air is very low.
Being a frequent flyer I once had a terrifying approach in a severe tropic thunderstorm in Abidjan, Côte d’Ivoire. The plane was bumping up and down and flashings were lightening the cabin. There was a steep turn- around and then a long silence from the cockpit. We finally landed safely in Accra, Ghana. When all pax were waiting for immigrations and the pilots where passing by everybody was cheering them.
You know, I haven't flown a plane in years now - but watching this video, as more and more information was revealed, I could feel my stress levels rising in response to what was going on. The way to not die in aviation is to always have a plan B, and then know when its time to give up and use the plan B. When you're on plan B - you want to be thinking about a plan C as well. Yet its so easy to become focused and committed to the point that no alternate plans are available. That's when things get serious.
All in all, good presentation of the video and scenario.
The passengers must have been so relieved to feel that touchdown....and I am sure the pilots were too!
I have always been anxious about flying but I flew spirit on my first ever flight and it was storming really badly when we were landing. They tried landing several times and had to do several go arounds and there was really bad turbulence the entire time so the plane was shaking and it was making it feel like the plane was falling several times. All the passengers were holding onto their seats and the girl next to me was praying. Everyone was freaking out a bit, myself included. They tried landing again and finally did it but that was AFTER all the other incoming flights were diverted and outgoing flights canceled. It was terrifying, even the pilot came over the intercom saying it was scary for them too.
@@thatssovenus Which airline and county destination was this?
@@thatssovenus Thought it was normally just 2 go arounds then divert to alternate airport unless weather improves , as your using up fuel required to divert ?
@@tiggy2756 The policy depends on the airline
@@ArsenGaming You would think would be legal implantations as your depleting your fuel required for a divert ! isn't there a minimum amount of contingency fuel legally required ?
So 10+ years ago I was a flight test engineer on the 787-8. One of the tests we did, had the scenario of a pilot that was determined to land while visibility was below minimums and broke through the clouds offset to the runway. We started the series of tests at the minimum call out and offset by 150ft. On each landing attempt, we did a full yoke turn to align with the runway and a full yoke turn to straighten back out. We would progress down another 25 feet to start the maneuver each landing attempt. Starting with the attempt at 250ft AGL, the pilot was banging the yoke so hard we could hear it over the intercom. The air flow over the wings during the turn roared, and the engine strake vortexes were huge. We were getting bank angle warnings on every attempt. By the 150ft attempt, the pilots were getting very concerned at making the plane level by touch down, as we needed to bank almost 45 degs to make the slide, and this is an airplane with 90ft of wing on each side. We did one more round at 125ft and the pilots called it off after that, it was too low, they couldn't level the plane for touch down, and the wing was getting very close to the ground in the turn.
Now to hear that a pilot actually tried to do this with passengers onboard is bonkers. We did this test to make sure there were no control feedback issues during the maneuver, but to do it when you have options to go else where is not good.
But he _didn't_ have any other options.
@@Milesco You're missing the point. The Captain created the situation.
@@nabirasch5169 Not really. Well, a little bit -- but only a little bit. In hindsight, he should've chosen to divert to Coimbatore rather than Trivandrum. But he was being given bad information all along the way. He was told not once but twice that the weather at Cochin was fine, when it wasn't. And then he was later told -- again, not once but twice -- that the weather in Trivandrum as also fine for landing, when in fact it wasn't. You can't keep giving a pilot inaccurate and incorrect information again and again and again and expect him to make good decisions.
__________________________________
Approaching Cochin:
7:32 “ATC reported that the weather was quite nice in Cochin...this was more or less exactly what the pilots expected.”
And then 48 minutes later...
8:54 “As they were descending on the glideslope, it became more and more obvious that the weather was much worse than expected.”
Initial weather info for Trivandrum:
10:12 “The captain checked what the weather was like in Trivandrum and it was given as 3000 meters, which was well above the minimum requirement for a VOR approach...”
Updated weather for Trivandrum:
14:55 “ATC told the pilots that the latest weather for Trivandrum was 3000 meters...still perfectly okay for a VOR approach.”
But then...
15:58 "At 06.30 local time... Trivandrum ATC told the crew...that the visibility has now gone gone down to 1500 meters, and that's a problem, because the minimum visibility to start the VOR approach for that runway was 2100 meters."
@@Milesco excellent points
@@AndrewSteitz Thanks, Andrew 😊
I'm not in the aviation industry but Mentour's content has me hooked. Even though I've subscribed to the channel I keep checking if a new video has come out
Now how do we find merchandise page maybe Google it..
Oh god, as a fellow aviator watching the events unfold gives me chills down my spine
The way Mentour tells the story, puts me on the plane. And makes my heart race.
He is a fantastic story teller
Just imagine if you met him in person, and he was whispering stories into your ear.
Yes, he's good.
My dad is an ex navy aviator, and his one piece of advice that i always follow has been - Never change a plan at the last moment. Diverting to VOBL as per briefing , would have saved the pilots a whole lot of trouble
Exactly. Plan the flight. Fly the plan.
I think that wisdom applies in many situations not just aviation!!
What happens if the weather turns bad at the alternate?
Hey sir - Gotta say your content is so well done. You describe things that both a seasoned pilot such as myself can understand while also breaking it down in such a way that the non-pilot can grasp with simplicity. Very very well done and excellent use of your sim software to provide a picture (worth a thousand words truly) that along with your narrative makes the story come to life. Hats off to you. Fly safe friend.
You too sir, is a very humble human being. Fly safe 🙏
I am totally with you on this. The decision to make a third approach (unless there is a big change in circumstances) is almost always wrong. If you do make a third attempt you are probably heading up an emotional blind canyon, the temptation is very much to take things a little further, go a little bit lower, shave a bit off the minima, plus you are now getting very tired. You need a break. Count the accidents that have happened on third approaches, I can think of a number, it is not a safe place to be.
I also completely agree with the folly of committing yourself to a non-precision approach when the fuel is getting that low. Apart from anything else a modern aircraft can do an Autoland off almost any ILS. It will not be approved if the installation is not certificated, but it will almost certainly work. At the very least as someone said to me years ago "the crash will be on a runway close to a fire engine!" Of course, you will have to justify yourself afterwards, but the interview with the manager/CAA official (without coffee or biscuits) is a lot better than being dead.
I love you put videos of the flights that ended OK, and not only disaster ones. In swiss cheese model this one went through all holes, but one. That one saved the day - and lots of lives.
Even if it doesn't end in disaster, you can still learn a lot. I like these videos just as much as the ones that end with fatalities.
Man I’m so glad they landed safely in the end. I truly embraced myself for the worst 😅😅
I was a cabin crew for 9 years in Russia and many times found myself being stuck in the “waiting for better weather” circles around different airports as well as missed approaches (usually due to heavy snowstorms or insanely dense fog during winter in Siberia and other parts of the country). Now that I retired I found your channel and I realize how many times I downplayed/didn’t understand what was going in the cockpit during those times 😅 thanks for your videos they are very informative but if I was pax I’d be scared to fly after them 😂😂
I was thinking the same thing! I was not cabin crew, but I’ve been in these situations many times through the decades of my work. I now realize that maybe I should have been more scared! Lol
@@RGormanJr maybe, maybe not. If there are fast moving thunderstorms over the airfield, waiting ten min for them to pass is common.
If you think "waiting for better weather" is dangerous in general I think you got the wrong takeaway from the video. This can be done safely if the proper procedure is followed and if you account for it when calculating fuel. If you know you're flying to an airport with rapidly changing weather (Fog that's very dense one minute and clear the next is a typical example) it's possible to just take extra fuel to give the margin to wait a bit. Although Russian aviation being Russian aviation who knows if this was done.
@@SuperGenericUser Yes. But in this case it was India in the Monsoon Season, rhe visibility was steadily decreasing and the original alternate Airport was for a reason further away from the coastline. A reason that this Captain obviously wasn't aware.
@@SuperGenericUser Thats it, so you may be scared to fly in India, but not in Europe/Northern America.
Not the weather is the problem, but the dealing with it.
This was a tricky weather situation. With the reported weather, I would have considered the first ILS approach to be a "piece of cake". What followed next is something we all can learn from. Well presented, Petter!
A year ago, I made an ILS approach into an airport where the weather was reported to be good visibility and clouds at 1,000 feet. The approach minima was 200 feet. But when we reached minima, we could not see the runway and had to go around. Later on, I learned that ATC at that airport would always report the clouds to be at 1,000 feet because they could not measure it...
That is a very good point and it kind of gave them the false safety that they will land. My personal limit is 2 approaches and go to alternate.
Then they shouldn't report it!
I must commend you on how much you have improved the quality of your videos from the beginning of this marvelous adventure 'til now... the new introduction is spectacular, and the sponsoring display on the right lower corner just pitch perfect. You are awesome in what you do, and I am so glad to have the chance of watching your videos! Thank you, really!
Yes I remember this flight well, my friends grandmother was on it, and I heard that it shook her up so badly that she was taken to hospital, and never really quite got over it, and sadly she died of a stroke a week later, I don't no much more of what went on other than that, but it was said by the doctors that that was the major contributory factor.
Sad. And if she was so affected, likely so many others were traumatized as well.
Stress does not cause strokes. Sounds like the doctors were just as bad as the pilot in this story.
@@mikek5298 The pilots? Or the weather guys? The pilots assumed the weather guys were telling the truth and then encountered consistently much worse conditions.
@@mikek5298 Stress can cause the heart to work harder, increase blood pressure, and increase sugar and fat levels in the blood. These things, in turn, can increase the risk of clots forming and travelling to the heart or brain, causing a heart attack or stroke. But what would a dr know?
my condolences to you and your friend...
Had requested this many times, finally my wish comes true.. ✌🏻 thanks Petter! Great work as always👏🏻
Thank you! I hope it was to your satisfaction.
If I need to choose any pilot in the world who will be my host on my flight, I will always choose you. Your explanations are very clear, detailed and interesting at the same time. Your voice is so pleasant to listen and u seems like a calm person with amazing energy. So glad to discovered this channel
Petter, that was amazing narrative. You are a wonderful story-teller. Looking at the flight report, this was not a spectacular event. The 6 go-arounds plus a safe landing sounds interesting - almost ho-hum. But… the way you put the viewer in the pilot’s seat was riveting. Real drama. There was no way that I was going to bail when you paused for a commercial. Thanks - a better video than anything on Netflix. At the same time, I learned lots about the procedures that are in place to manage situations like this.
This exact incident happened to me when I was flying from Kolkata (CCU) to Port Blair (IXZ). We made more than 4 approaches into Port Blair only for the pilot to say we don’t have fuel to return back to Kolkata, we will try our best to reach Phuket, Thailand as it’s closer. It was one of the most terrifying and nerve wracking incidents of my life.
Pilots often have a sense of humor. I remember one apologizing for our flight leaving late because of a piece in one of the engines being defective but not-to-worry because he'd decided that was okay.
I also went from Delhi to Kolkata to Port Blair
"The captain at this point is probably starting to panic a little bit." (20:26) --- I love this wording!
i can imagine the panic in the cockpit, i was panicking myself while watching this
Wow! That was just frightening, like you , I never try to judge the guys in the cockpit - but I certainly would have been more conservative. My personal rule is to never do more than two missed approaches into the same airport after than I head to my alternate. So, it was helpful to hear that your company has a similar rule. Thanks from a fellow Scandinavian.
What is your company's police? If you're relying on a personal rule of thumb, then it sounds like your company is not providing proper guidance - exactly like in the video we just saw.
Sköl
@@LetoDK he didn't say he flew for anyone. Some folks fly themselves around and are free to dictate their own policies/ personal minimums.
@@LetoDK every pilot should have personal minimums (guidelines) Regardless of company guidelines, even if the personal and corporate guidelines are teh same.
As Todd points out, he also may not be a commercial pilot.
@@SoloRenegade yeah he's probably just a casual pilot and similarly I would do the same in this situation. I've gone around twice and maybe I'll get lucky and hit the third time, but then again? Maybe I'll go around 7 more times so it's not worth the risk especially when the weather is the same where I'm headed
I love what you emphasized at the end of this video. You stated that you didn’t know what happened to the pilots after this crazy incident and more so that you didn’t care because the point of these stories isn’t to lay blame but to LEARN from them. Far too many videos don’t do this and use their opinions as justification for consequences. It makes me appreciate and enjoy your videos even more. Amazing job Petter. You truly are an asset to aviation and to RUclips as a whole.
One of the best things I learned from my Flight Instructor was: The three most useless things you can have while flying are 1.) Runway behind, 2.) altitude above, and 3.) Fuel in the fuel truck...
What do the first two mean?
@@jollyrogerq just a guess here, but a runway behind you means there isn't one in front of you....to land on. Altitude above you means that you are potentially too low and could hit something. Buildings, trees and such are only so tall, so at some point you are presumably safe from hitting anything.
@@jollyrogerq Altitude above. - If your engine quits, altitude above you is useless. Only altitude below will let you glide to a safe landing spot. Runway behind - Useless both for takeoff and landing. If you aren't in the air by the end of the runway, you are screwed. By the same token, if you havent stopped by the end of the runway, same thing.
@@jollyrogerq They are all about having lost the chance of having those precious commodities in your current bag of tricks.
Can someone explain why you wouldn't take substantially more (maybe 30%+) for every flight? I understand more weight burns more fuel but at least it doesn't crash planes. Watched several of these where everyone on a plane was killed when it ran out of fuel? Why cut it close at all??? Excess fuel when you land is never wasted because the next crew adds to it anyway, correct? I'm ignorant to how this works so maybe someone can set me straight. Cheers
Must have been a really stressful situation for the pilots, going for visual approaches while barely being able to see outside your window and with fuel running out. Great video as always!
I can’t believe they flew back to Cochin that day! I’d need at least a couple hours at the airport bar, lol..
Of course it was stressful. As is crashing and dying.
In many cases of injury (especially sports like ski jumping) it has been advised to go back as early as possible to not let the fear of failure stop you completely.
I have of course nothing to judge if they were calm enough to fly, but some people really stay cool as a cucumber under pressure and are not worse for wear. They likely did have the time to come down from any adrenaline …
@@goldenageofdinosaurs7192 you wouldn't be fit to fly after that then with the alcohol in you lol
with the life style there.. it may just be another tuesday.. indians are no stranger to high pressure and competitive environment.. doesn't mean what they did was correct.. but likely.. the mentalities are different from western society..
@@Bryanzebox as an Indian I can confirm this, we have been told to brush off things and move on! 😄
This flight slightly reminded me of the Lamia 2933 flight. Pilot recklessness that led to fuel emergencies, unfortunately with casualties in this case. That accident was heartbreaking.
Actually, rewatch the start, if this captain hadn't arbitrarily decided to bring extra feul, they would have crashed.
Kinda lucky imho
Was this really reckless? No guarantee rhe weather at the 3rd airport would have been any better
@@VanquishedAgain But their original diversion airport had ILS approach available to them, whoch meant they could have easily landed there even with reduced visibility. Captain should have agreed to divert after the second go-around when they still had the fuel availabile to make it there
This was an absolutely fascinating video for someone who has an amateur interest in aviation and very limited knowledge on how all of this actually works. Thanks!
I have a lot of sympathy for the FO. He did tell the Captain, that diverting to an airport with no ILS was dubious. Instead, the Captain ignored him and backed them into a corner, triggering what was just a desperate fight to survive. Hey Mentour, how about doing a video on Air Europa UX-911 at Katowice. Now, there was a crazy flight. Report is on AvHerald.
Diverting to an airport without a precision approach is not dubious, flying beyond logical airmanship rules is.
On 28 October 2007, a Boeing 737-800 under the command of a Training Captain occupying the supernumerary crew seat touched down off an ILS Cat 1 approach 870 metres short of the runway at Katowice in fog at night with the AP still engaged.
@@Capecodham autopilot
Now I'm intrigued! I work as CC in Katowice and didn't know there was an incident here, thanks for this comment because I'll now be looking into this 🤣
@@Capecodham Cabin crew! :)
Thank you for your videos. By far my favorite summaries of recent aviation events. I'm a SWA pilot and appreciate your objective accuracy and unbiased subjective view points. The format, animation and chronological descriptions for first rate. Keep'em coming!
In no relation to the video, but I've been watching your videos for a little bit and I just so happened to recently get a job in the aviation industry. The way that you explain the technology and techniques that are relevant to the incidents, even though you could tell the story without going into so much detail, has been incredibly helpful. Thank you
You are an outstanding example on making air transportation safer for all of us. How you present the situation and give us an insight on what the pilot may have been thinking adds a layer of
understanding that is crucial to evaluating the situation. Thank you for all your hard work and effort. Do know it is having a positive effect. Be happy, be safe
I am not a crew member myself (yet), but after reading through the comments here, I feel so anxious and nervous, not about my future flights but the experiences you all have had... Kudos to all!!
Thanks for another great researched and presented short film Petter. Really good.
I can’t believe they piloted another flight immediately after that! And this was only 7 years ago; it’s not like it was 40 years ago where safety guidance wasn’t where it is today.
Yeah, that blew my mind as well..
Maybe the aviation safety mindset in India is 40 years behind? Someone commented on another thread that "Indians are used to high pressure situations" and basically inferred that perhaps the pilots weren't affected by this incident too much and that's why they took the subsequent flight. Scary. I was on edge just listening to Petter recount the incident.
@@toddsmith8608 The astonishing point here is that this Captain was very careful and descent at the beginning - taking a lot more fuel than necessary and choosing a real safe alternate Airport - but then he mismanaged everything in a way that he found himself finally in the situation: land the aircraft blindly or dy.
@@Hans_R._Wahl as mentioned elsewhere in this video comment section, it seems India never got the memo on CRM.
@@toddsmith8608 Then it should be outlined in the report. CRM was indeed an important issue in this case, too.
Fueling in aviation always seems like such a deep rabbit hole, it's something I have great respect for. It's never as simple as just adding more fuel. The fuel itself is a payload, requiring even more thrust and fuel to carry. The solution seems to multiply the problem. Definitely way over my head.
Yes.... as you add fuel,you have to add MORE fuel!
@@richardwyse7817 DAMN those diminishing returns!! :)
That's why the military use in flight refueling on missions a long way from base.
However do notice that you always get some extra range from adding extra fuel, even though (as you say) it's not as much as a naïve calculation might suggest.
@@DoubleMonoLR Cost is certainly the most common, but not the only reason.
(A) You can also have upper limits for fuel because with your cargo it brings you over max weight. This is particularly an issue for helicopters. (UH-1 Huey+warm vietnam summer day+full fuel = probably unable to lift off even with no cargo)
(B) When supply chains are compromised, there may be no fuel to load.
(C) If maneuverability matters enough, you want less inertia from less mass.
Military aircraft are far more likely to run into these than commercial aviation.
Well thankfully aircraft are more efficient than rockets. In that case more fuel requires a lot more fuel to a min boggling extent!
I fly a 767. I like what you said about 2 approaches and divert. I have had situations where I might have been able to get into the primary using different approaches but I’m not that daring and bold. I have just gone to the alternate. The primary airport will still be there later when things improve.
In 1975 I was a passenger on a British Airways VC10 flight from the Seychelles to Colombo Sri Lanka. There were clouds below 1000 ft and two standard approaches failed. On the third approach the pilot flew a much longer diversion and made a straight in approach at well below 1000 ft altitude for the last 50km to stay under the cloud bank. As a passenger in a window seat in first class I can only estimate the altitude but we seemed to be only a bit above the treetops so I am certain we were under 500 feet. Back then I imagine there were no possible alternate airports for an aircraft as heavy as a VC10.
It's conflicting.
The Captain made significant errors of judgement, while his First Officer probably should have been more forceful in telling him to stick to the pre-written flight plan.
The rules breaking (before emergency was declared) was full of bad calls, and then once the mayday had been called it was still not the best-though I can understand the Captain just wanting to get the bird down.
That they got the plane landed without any injuries was the shining light in the whole situation. It was a bad situation that got worse, but no one died and nothing was damaged.
The absolutely terrible and unconscionable thing, though, was the report being half-assed. Reports are written in an environment where there *_isn't_* that life or death pressure. This flight may have had a happy ending, but that still doesn't mean the report shouldn't be completed with all seriousness and the weight of all those lives that didn't have to be spent that day.
Yes, that’s all correct. The final report was among the worst things Ive ever read, and I’ve read a few.
@@MentourPilot maybe the authorities wanted to hide some details to cover up incompetence?
@@LastofAvari thats the usual here, they will try toshift blame from the company to the pilots as much as possible. Pilots always end up getting the short end of the stick.
@@retardmoguss What? In almost all of those videos Mentour makes they also blame the company. Usually for insufficient training, insufficient guidelines or insufficient maintenance.
The serious pilot error of judgement, as layperson me sees it, was to change the diversion to a place that has no working precision approach and likely similarly bad weather.
I just cannot understand that all the weather data, even coming straight from the control towers in the very weather, was that far away from reality. Did someone multiply the visibilities by 8 or something?
PS: that pilot has serious by-the-pants blind flying skills and luck. Great when needed, but even better if it is never needed.
Incredible situation to be in and am so glad they eventually landed safely. I can only imagine the feelings of the passengers. Having been on board as a passenger myself during three go-arounds during a snowstorm, you do begin to fear the worst. Great video and detailed explanation. I would really like to see you do one on the harrowing flight of Jay Prochnow, who had a similar situation with being lost and running out of fuel. He was helped by Captain Gordon Vette of a DC-10 that was flying near his location and used basic navigation skills to help Jay find his way.
When I still was a flight attendant, i was on a flight to Faro. The weather was bad, a lot of seafog. The cpt briefed us about it in Brussels and we had extra fuel for it. Still, we did 3 go arounds. After the 3rd attempt I told my purser I didn't like it, pax became anxious as well. She told me that they would manage but that she was also worried however she didn't feel lile disturbing the pilots but I disagreed with her on the situation. I entered the flight deck and told the pilots that I felt that we were burning a lot of fuel, pax getting worried and that I felt that go around after go around would also make them tired and possibly less concentrated and suggested we would go to Sevilla. The cpt acknowledged this, told me they would try one more attempt and otherwise would go to the alternate. The purser now told me she was glad I spoke up and that she didn't have the courage. After landing the captain called for me. I expected a reprimand but he told me he was glad with my input and that it was a good example of good CRM. They had calculated fuel for multiple attempts in Faro but were unaware of how the cabin crew and pax felt. As crew member, always speak up if you feel something is getting unsafe. I also new that this wasn't to my knowledge according to our company procedures. We normally could try 2 attempts before going to the alternate if I remember correctly. I can't even imagine how the cabin crew and pax on 9W-555 have felt about it.
@@Capecodham captain, passengers, and crew resource management. Mentour has a couple of very good videos explaining the importance of CRM in aviation.
@@Capecodham what?
@@RavenDelta troll evidently.
@@Capecodham was not showing off, was educating you and others...FO(first officer), TOGA(take off-go around) were not mentioned by you initially.
@@jadesluv some people don't believe in education
From bad to worse. What a story! Thank you Mentour🥰
Yeah, this one escalated quite badly!
@@MentourPilot here in india this year they have released a movie on same topic… Movie name Runway 34.. i request you to watch that… and they were suspended for few weeks and back again to work as shown in movie…. actor name : Ajay devgan..
Waiting for your reply
@@adilshaikh8511 same
Even I was sweating just before they landed. You did very well with this narrative. Thanks Petter.
Love the videos! So descriptive and easy for even a non pilot to understand!
That’s exactly what I’m trying to do. Thanks for your kind words! 💕
@@MentourPilot 😁
@Mentour & Team
You keep getting better and better!
It *really* helped me that you went over the fuel numbers at multiple moments in time.
That really put into perspective how much (/little*) fuel they still had left!
(if you'd just talked about the thousands of kilograms, I only could have thought of family cars as a proxy unit of measurement - but because you told us how much fuel gets used, and by saying how much fuel remained after each go around, even passengers like me get a sense of just how bad things were)
Thanks for continuing to raise the bar!
It's truly *the* best aviation channel _worldwide._
I wasn't expecting this to end well. My heart was pounding as they tried the last approach. Nice research!
I cannot even begin to imagine... it seems the first officer had a little more caution about the situation that he tried sharing with the captain. Can't believe they were just able to jump back in and keep going that day.
Yeah, it was pretty crazy, the whole thing.
The co-pilot did not have the total time to understand the mess the flight crew was in. So how could he have advocated? And, I agree.....stop there and then, after the airplane is parked safely at the gate. This mess goes deeper than the flight crew. But, the flight crew, IMHO, showed poor judgment. Ya know, there are such TRENDS in interpreting weather forecasts at destinations, alternates, etc. So, I stick with my assessment. Poor preparation, and poor judgment. Yes, I'm an old farmer's son, but knew enough in studying the clouds and trends....learning from my dad.......Even my dispatchers agreed with my decisions. Not arrogant, just grateful. Plus, there are other considerations with minimum landing fuel. Uh, like aircraft limitations.....NOT OP SPEC minimums. I may have had 4 stripes on my shoulders, but the LORD was, and is My Captain. Not once, were mechanical failures considered, based on this video, considered. And I'm not talking about necessarily engine failure. Crew malfunction. They were very lucky.
@@sandybanjo Yes, exactly.
@@sandybanjo what do you mean? The first officer had all the same info as the captain. He was even more cautious in checking info before they left, which is why he knew before going that they would only have non precision approach at the new alt. He was on the flight deck for the whole thing, too.
@@sandybanjo by total time, are you talking about his total flight time? Saying that he was less experienced overall? I can understand that, I'm sure it would factor into what happened as well. Maybe had he had more time, he would have been more direct in saying "this is insane"??
I never heard of this one before, thank you for making a useful and understandable explanation as always mentour!
I hope you found it interesting!
Absolutely love to hear and see your work. What I particularly like is that you are trying to make the aviation system better and to learn from these mistakes and disasters. Well done and thank you
The Captain and FO were actually suspended for 3 months for anyone curious.
I didn’t know that. Thanks.
Thanks for telling. There were indeed some significant mistakes made prior to declaring emergency. Although I would say ignoring the rules on the final attempt to get the bird down is fully understandable. At this point, it was a live or death situation
Why was the FO suspended as well? He couldn't have overruled his captain given his lack of experience on this particular type.
@@Dirk-van-den-Berg I don't remember but his decision to disable the GPWS is what I think caused his suspension but I am not sure.
good , unlike European airlines where they try to hide their mistakes and operate as a old boys club
I am in ♥️ with this newfound channel! No speculations, no dramatic music, no nonsense. I love simple, easy to understand style of the narrative yet I've learned so much new from this video.
And of course once you see mist on your route, you have to take into consideration it might turn into a full blown fog, so an airport providing instrumental landing system approach should be an absolute priority when choosing the alternate option. Tack så jättemycket!
The accent with the commentary and the visuals make this probably the best airline disaster channel on RUclips
what accent?
@@jeffreymontgomery7516 Norwegian maybe?
@@MrWatshisfaceswedish
Looking at these videos, at first I thought it might scare me about flying but accually it has had the opposite result. I am glad to hear that almost every accident is investigated and lead to it almost never happening again.
You explain in a truly great way and I enjoy watching these. So thank you for all your hard work.
If you ever do a video on the crash that took the lives of a whole hockey team in Russia, with Swedish goalie Stefan Liv included, I will most definitely watch it. I know some of it but that one seems like a lot of things went very wrong.
And again, thank you for your videos. Even went the result was horrific I like watching them (it sounds so wrong) because of what we learned.
Thank YOu for being here Johanna! You've hit the nail on the head with your analysis. This is exactly what we aim to do.
@@MentourPilot I to feel safer flying and now always pay attention to the safety lessons in the beginning. I actually always assumed the floatation device was under the seat, until my last flight I saw that it was in a spot above the seat.
When I said it out loud, the travellers beside me said, “Thank goodness one of us was paying attention “. ❤️
Every accident gets investigated. Not "almost" every incident. Unfortunately, no other industry is as driven to determine "best practices," or protecting customers, themselves, or their industry. Literally none.
It's good to see a video from Mentour featuring an incident, albeit an unfortunate one, from my hometown, Trivandrum! On the plus side, it was a safe landing. One interesting thought as someone who frequently flew that route is that usually these flights would be carrying Indians working in the Middle East (NRI) visiting home on leave for a short duration and being diverted from Cochin to Bangalore (another state) would be a bit more difficult to accept than being diverted to TVM. Not sure if this played any part in the incident. As always, thanks for yet another awesome video :) 🍻
ഉറപ്പായും യാത്രക്കാർ കച്ചറ ആക്കും. അതും പൈലറ്റ് കണക്കാകിയിട്ടുണ്ടാവണം !
Checkout movie Runway 34 if you haven’t already. It is based on this incident.
Mallus ivdem Happy to see ♥️
I think being diverted a bit further away is preferred over dying, by all passengers. And while they made it this time, they came very close to not making it. I would almost say it was pure luck.
I can imagine them landing at Bangalore and then being stuck there for so long they'd end up having to go back to Doha without seeing any of their family. That might of been part of the thought process, Jet wasn't going to pay for a last minute aircraft to rush them down to the airport they should have landed at.
MP... you're simply the best. There are many who try to emulate you, but not even close. As a retired aviator from earlier times, I find enhanced learning and knowledge from these unfolding episodes. Well done MP, keep up the good work.
Another episode of great story telling from Petter, the teaching pilot.👍👍👍
Thank you Murat! 💕
Being an Indian, it feels great to see a video emphasizing a flight to and fro India! If I am not wrong we had a very recent film based out of this named "Runway 34". At the end it feels great to have not come across loss of lives pertaining to this incident in the video. Always on the lookout for your new videos...GO MENTOUR!!! 😀
Thank you! Great to hear that you liked it! 💕
Movie was supposedly based on the incident, but they screwed up all technicalities.
@@vikashkthakur They made a movie about difficulties landing on foggy airports?? ... Was it a short film? ... Was it made for the ecucational factor?
@@Dowlphin what's the question here? I'm talking about movie Runway 34, as mentioned in the comment.
@@vikashkthakur exactly. They did not even do the basic RUclips research....they were pronouncing runway number itself wrongly ..it should be three four...not.thirtyfour...
Truly ourtstanding eexplanation and visuals. Easily the best I have ever seen.
I was a passenger on an overnight flight from Heraklion, Crete into London Gatwick on a 737. There was fog at Gatwick and we were in a holding pattern for several hours. Then we were told that due to fuel and fog we had to divert to RAF Marsden. The aircraft flew through some steeper turns and then we landed, but it wasn't the RAF base, our pilots had got us into Gatwick. They told us afterwards that they had seen a break in the weather used it to safely land the aircraft.
Since we had been diverted to an RAF base does that mean that we had become a fuel emergency?
Probably, yes, or an emergency of some kind
I would say yes. Most RAF bases don’t accept a commercial flight unless you’re an emergency or for a unique, pre-planned request, for obvious reasons.
There have been ATC recordings of pilots having issue and requesting to land at a military base and being denied. Then they declared a fuel emergency and then they were automatically able to land at that military airport that ATC had denied them to minutes before. So yes, 99% likely a fuel emergency was declared, especially if holding for a while, pilots would opt to be safer than sorry.
A few years ago there were issues with London airports due to the weather and there were MANY fuel emergencies declared within a few hours due to so many go arounds. Some diverted to France despite Heathrow/Gatwick etc being their destination.
Good thing in the UK is there are plenty of airports within a short distance and as we Brits know, the weather across a county border can be the complete opposite! Winter on one side and summer on the other 😂
RAF Marsden has been closed since 1935. Did you mean RAF Marham or somewhere else?
Probably RAF Manston/Kent International a joint military/civil airport, now closed.
@@daytonaflyer if it was Marsden it was a heck of an emergency
Actually that was my first thought, why there was no guidance from the airlines to how many missed approaches are allowed. Interesting video, less dramatic but very informative.
I'm not a pilot, but love listening and learning about your job. I've listened to others, but don't enjoy their telling the story as much as you.
I can't imagine the stress the crew and passengers must have felt. Closest I can get is from my own flying experience in my small single engine plane in good weather when I was still new with it. I had 3 go arounds at an unfamiliar airport because of bouncing my landings. The feeling of being trapped in the air is like nothing else. My 4th approach was successful because at the suggestion of ATC, I left the airport environment and took a few minutes away to regroup before returning. That's with the luxury of fuel. This video's flight seems so much more terrifying.
regrouping when possible is always a good choice. when driving a car and you dont feel good or angry, just stop, take some breathm close your eyes for a minute and go on. its always better to take a 5 minute break (when possible or just fly 5 minutes straight) than beeing 5 weeks in hospital and cause damage to others
This is why I rarely flew anywhere where I did not have DOUBLE the fuel that I needed to get to my second alternate and make 3 missed approaches there. Now that is something that you can do in a GA aircraft that you probably would NOT do in a large commercial aircraft (the extra weight of all of that fuel might severely limit how many passengers (Revenue or otherwise) you can carry.
I recall a Flying magazine "I learned about flying from this" item about a man who was ferrying a load of lawyers to a hilltop strip in a Cherokee Six. Weather deteriorated, icing made it impossible to hold altitude, and the localizer was telling him the wind was blowing him off course on final. He watched helplessly as, at full power, he descended toward field altitude... 200 feet above... 100 feet...field elevation... 50 feet below.... The wind had blown him to the side of the hill and he shed the ice before he ran out of altitude.
@@flagmichael deicer?
What a tough situation to get yourself into. The video doesn’t touch on this but we have internal company briefing charts with major threats at different airports in case we are not familiar with the area that helps a lot in decision making. Some airports have patches of low clouds that you can see the whole runway except for the threshold on short final, wx is reported as bkn 200ft most of the time with really good horizontal visibility, this condition will remain the same for hours until the sun comes out. Its very tempting to hold a bit expecting for that little patch to move but with calm winds it wont move and we have to divert.
Good point! There was no mention in the (terrible) final report but I would assume they have access to similar info.
We have it in my airline as well.
Thank you very much for this additional Information! It causes one more unanswered question.about this report.
Firstly, been off work this week with bad flu - you’ve saved me! Love your films. Have you done anything on Alderney? I used to love watching the Trilanders attempting to land in the storms there! Watched one pilot try 3 times before deciding to head to Jersey! You’re on my list of favourite creators, thanks.
The story flows very smoothly, and I could understand the points well. Glad to hear your analysis of the report at the end too.
I have always traveled by plane since I was a young girl, without any fear. Then a series of events resulted in a height phobia. Suddenly I started having terrible panic attacks during the flight, which got worse with each trip. After a few years and a lot of work on me I was able to understand the reason for the phobia and I felt ready to try again, but just then there was the attack on the twin towers. Since then I haven't had the courage first, then the opportunity to fly.
This channel helps me a lot to deal with my trauma, which will never be erased but can be managed with rational tools. If I get on a plane again, it will also be thanks to Petter Hornfeldt.
In the past few years I have found myself intrigued by this channel and others that discuss aviation and the challenges pilots face on a daily basis!
This is an amazing story. I can’t imagine being a passenger after the 3rd go around. I personally wouldn’t be too scared or mind too much with a go around because I like being in planes so it would just extend the time.
Great video as always.
Maybe you could cover the disaster of Königs Wusterhausen in 1972. It had its 50 year „anniversary“ this month. The aircraft was a Iljuschin II-62 and had a construction error.
I like your content. So often I get tired of the same creator, but I've been with you for about three years and always enjoy what you have. I am a former flight instructor and 21 years as an air traffic controller.
Thank you for taking us through the fuel calculations, it was fascinating!
Many years ago a similar event occurred with a 707 flight into an east coast airport. During landing and roll out at the alternate, total fuel exhaustion occurred. Crew called for a tug assisted pull to the gate because of a “steering hydraulic issue”. Thus no emergency had been or was declared. Only the airline was aware of it. This was, of course, an time when everything from CRM, procedures, emergency notification requirements, dispatching and flight requirements were much different.
I think many people can remember the Avianca crash in New York, too, even if it is now many years in the past.
Excellent video, as always. Just want to give Petter mad props for pronouncing Thiruvananthapuram so well. I lived in India for two years and still struggle with that one!
When you said the plane made a successful landing I could feel the tension leave my shoulders. I 1000% agree with you that the crew should not have flown until they had time to reorient themselves - a night's sleep was in order. I am not a pilot but I have been in dicey situations on the ground a few times; the surreal sense of "this is going badly" was accompanied by a short period of good focus and a longer period of confusion if the situation is not quickly resolved.
The souls on board that flight were very lucky indeed.
It’s india, they would have been terrified that they would loose the prestige of flying and their income. The company would have been like “get that fucking plane back to base with more paying passengers”. They were lucky the captain put that much fuel on board.
@@azzajohnson2123 lucky ? he saw the weather was bad and took on extra fuel.
dont take these biased videos too seriously, he has dual standards for European and non European pilots.
Like he does not explain what were the options with the pilot if the alternate airport was also heavily fogged out ? What did he expect the pilots to do ?
@@mviv6339 Considering the pilot's experience, I would say it was a significant but - as it turned out - inadequate amount of extra fuel. I am completely unfamiliar with weather in that region but I doubt this was something the pilot had never experienced.
The question is: why didn't he select a second alternate? The rules exist to keep us from doing stupid things, not to make us do smart things. That is what I expect pilots to do: smart things.
With horses when there is a close call everyone says that you should get back on saddle as soon as possible in order to not develop any anxieties.
This video certainly had me on the edge of my seat. I'm greatly relieved that the plane landed safely.
Me to!
I think this one got me caught up in the events more than any of the others, although the others have been as perilous. I can't say exactly why that was so, but maybe part of it was the prolonged peril.
Ditto here, I was stuck to my seat, and I am an airforce pilot and we do crazy things with our own life but when responsible for others, is a different vector
@@MentourPilot Your presentation was great. I literally did not know how this would turn out until you told us; you didn't give it all away earlier in the video. I was prepared to hear that the flight had crashed and killed everyone aboard or that it had all ended safely.
I don't know how it's possible that you compete with Mayday but you do well done thank you.