Nice to see an incident in which a GPWS "Terrain, Terrain, Pull Up" alert is not eventually followed by "Unfortunately, there were no survivors". Terrain escape manoeuvres can work when done quickly enough!
That's the difference between GPWS and EGPWS right there. Absolutely life-saving technology. Funnily enough, we can actually thank Russia for this - the Soviets had created terrain maps of the entire world, and following the collapse of the Soviet Union, they became available for purchase on the black market. Honeywell paid up, and the rest is history.
not all the time , depends on the weather , aircraft weight , speed at the time initiated , its the last line of defense before impact , the important factor is to bleed every knot in exchange of altitude and reducing ground speed
Of course a lot of those are when the aircraft is in a seriously degraded condition rather than just navigation errors. "Terrain, Pull Up" is almost always going to be the last thing you hear on a fatal flight regardless of whether it's CFIT or mechanical damage.
There is an airport in Bhutan where they go through the mountains right after takeoff and the terrain warning comes out several times as they snake their way through the valley before climbing out over the mountains. Scary.
Soo true... Weather avoidance at low altitude with high terrain nearby need to be carefully briefed... Been there, done that... Choose one.. hit the hard stuff.. or the soft wibly wobly stuff..
The way the copilot just instinctively went into survive mode and used all his training to escape the mountain, and then once on the ground he started to shake up and actually process what he just did is what amazes me.
Phew! That was close! I had a similar experience when approaching Bogota, Colombia one time. ATC gave me a bad vector and the plane missed some rocky terrain by just a few feet. I was so shaken up I had to pause the game and go get a snack.
Another element on their side I suppose : with a flight this short and so few passengers, the aircraft must have been reeallyy light. The 777 climbs like a rocket when empty.
They might have had plenty of cargo though, of which the 777 can take some ;) That is one of the purposes of those short flights in the region. At least, it was for Sabena back in the day, and to some extend for SN today.
Bro the Rolls Royce Trent 800 engine fitted on the Boeing 777 would be able to climb no problem with 100-200 passengers on board. Yes it will effect the plane but not as much as you think.
I'm a 777 Captain for a US Air carrier.....Hearing the GPWS alert going off sounding terrain, terrain whoop whoop pull up or TCAS climb/descent raises the hair on my on my neck. With more than 10,000 hours in a triple it is by far the best Boeing airplane I have ever flown
I've only flown in a simulator, but I was surprised how little time you really have. The TCAS advisory came, we put the plane into the right vertical speed (which was enormous!) and still we could see the traffic quite closely below our aircraft. I can't believe how pilots can act quickly when this happens 3hrs into their 1500th flight, and suddenly you gotta act within seconds. You guys aren't paid for what you do, but for what you know and trained for.
That’s pretty amazing to learn that even professional pilots can get fooled by the map inset boxes . When I was younger I always wondered why Hawaii always had reputation for wonderful tropical weather, while Alaska was known for the opposite. I mean, they’re virtually right next to each other!!
The fact that the flight path inside the insert aligns almost perfectly with the one on the main map was a stupid idea by whoever designed the map. It should have been a centimeter sheared off on purpose just to underline the fact that this isn't really a continuous path.
I'm shocked and scared with this fact. In my truck I always know what highway I'm on and tracking weather at the same time pretty accurate over 10 years. Now I would expect modern airplanes are on the higher level but then this video opened my eyes
and pretty dumb, i mean if they ever look at geographical map in their life, not just IFR chart, they would've known that Mt Cameroon was NEVER at the exact north of the island.
@pushslice there were only 2 things that kept me from getting that confused while I was a kid. The first was the fact that we had a map of the world that showed the true locations of Alaska and Hawaii. The other was the first map had an outline that showed the real scale of Alaska compared to the continental states. If it wasn’t for those I would of thought that Hawaii was at the end of the Alaskan island chain until I was ~13
Very well explained! I am a retired airline pilot so I knew about the escape maneuver and had flown it in the simulator. You have a knack for making very complicated aviation scenarios clear and easy to understand, especially for those who never flew a commercial airliner. Well done!!
@SamuelWright520 Thanks Samuel! Hope you enjoyed the Category lllb ILS Approach to 50 feet. And you might have seen me racing the motorcycle. I put up 168 mph on one race at age 67. Currently still flying professionally on a Pilatus PC-12NG after 29 years at United (retired on 1-14-2015) and 56 years after my first flying lesson. Are you a pilot?
I couldn't imagine the adrenaline dump after what happened. Bravo to the crew for fighting through not only the loss of situational awareness, but the physical toll that came after.
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.(John 3:16)🥳❤️😁❤️🫂❤️😎
The feeling when the adrenaline starts leaving your body and the shock takes over is awful! I almost got in a car accident in January, lost control of the car completely and while I could get control of the car again and stayed cool and collected then, I started shaking so much afterwards that I couldn't continue driving, I had to sit and breathe for 20 minutes to calm down again 😅
I’m a retired ICU nurse. We used epinephrine (adrenaline) often as a life saving drug. I remember one instructor telling us that a shot of adrenaline is like running at full speed and still being urged on. It has a short half life, but has very uncomfortable side effects. The jitters is one of them. Stopping and recollecting oneself -if at all possible- is the right thing to do in order to maintain focused.
I read somewhere that to get the adrenalin out of the system one has to use as many muscles as possible. The adrenalin serves to make the body (muscles) ready to perform at the highest intensity. So if one is sitting and not using much muscle the adrenalin is not being used up by muscle activity. The best remedy is to exercise as heavily as possible. Otherwise the adrenalin makes the muscles work by themselves and that shows in the jitter and heartbeat. Also no good for the arteries and venes. The get constricted to get up bloodpressure. One can observe this behavior on animals. If e.g. a hare faces a tough situation where it would have to run its body releases adrenalin. But if it then hasn't to do it (rejected take off) because the threat was only perceived but not really there, like in a accidental meet with a person, it will then still run a few rounds just to work the adrenalin out of the body.
There's a reason pretty much every thrill ride has a place to sit after you get off. (well, two: it also provides a spot to meet up with non riders after.) Even when it's expected, people often need a moment to reorient and get themselves back in order.
I had almost the same thing after almost hitting a herd of deer while driving at night a few years ago. Pulled over safely, got out to check for damage, as it was so close I couldn't tell for sure if I hit anything. No damage, so I got back in the car, but I had to give myself a few minutes afterwards to calm down before continuing.
it's like how Mickey Mouse says "it's a surprise tool that will help us later", except instead of the Mickey Mouse Club House jingle, it's suspenseful piano music
I think it would be also good if the weather or terrain radar screens displayed something (a grid, a specific colour) until they have been refreshed after chainging mode or scale. That would also help avoid that incident.
Completely agreed. I just posted a similar comment before noticing yours. Displaying "all clear" and "not yet loaded" as the same colour is a disastrously poor UX design, in this case almost literally.
@@TheDeadfast Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.(John 3:16)🥳❤️😁❤️🫂❤️😎
I really enjoy your videos! I'm just a housewife in Pennsylvania, USA. I've only flown as a passenger a dozen times, let alone have any knowledge of how to actually fly an aircraft! I started watching your videos looking for the "gory details." Now I watch because of how much I learn and because of how you break things down to make the complex understandable to someone like myself. You are a natural born teacher!!
Hi @Kathleen Seibert, I'm also a non-pilot who really enjoys learning from Petter's amazing videos. But I just wanted to say - NO ONE is "just" a housewife. We work extremely hard ensuring that people are safe, well-fed, well-dressed, and well-rested, so that they can go out and contribute directly. Our work is just as valuable as theirs.
Slapping down a piece of concrete is easier than having a weatherstation with precise information and a network to distribute that information it seems.
Hello Mentour,I'm a Cameroonian fan of yours and I love the way you describe flying in your simple and easy way.I had actually heard about the incident but didn't get the details of it till now....was at a loss how such an incident could happen on a B777.... Keep up the videos Captain!!👍🏽
I have flown this route between Malabo and Douala so many times in my previous airline, and I can say it’s as challenging as explained. The short flight time (sometimes down to 11 minutes depending on the runways in use), the high terrain around both airports, lack of radar that makes the ATCs life even harder, added to how quickly the area can be flooded with CBs as this area is under the influence of the ITCZ for most of the year (Hard to check the FGSL or FKKD METAR or TAF without seeing CBs mentioned) I look back from a relatively easier place for aviation and I have to say I have enormous respect to those pilots that fly in this area and under these conditions. They are real champions and in most cases they don’t know it. Great video, as always man
Why did they build 2 airports 11 minutes flight appart from each other. Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to use boats. And how can the ATC do an effective job without radar? Get them a radar.
From a software design perspective, it's inexcusable for critical flight displays not to tell the pilot when they're loading. Who has an accurate 8-second internal clock in the heat of the moment?
It’s not counting down, it will start to present the information immediately but in a “swath” pattern starting from left to right like a radar swipe. It can take up to 8 seconds to update all info.
I think a swiping line might actually be easier to read. It looks like when the displays contain data in all areas it is fairly easy to gauge where the refresh line currently is, but when the data is sparse it's simply black. A visible refresh line would essentially make what the pilots are already used to more visible.
@@MentourPilot yeah, either way i agree with the spirit of what alexdi said. it needs to be completely unambiguous to the user that their display hasn't fully updated
@@Kenionatus I think a visible refresh line for a few cycles/seconds after changing mode would be useful, as well as maybe a toggle that keeps the refresh line permanently on, if so desired. Having the refresh line permanently and unchangeably visible could potentially reduce peripheral awareness of the display, as it would be constant motion, so you could end up not being able to notice relevant changes from that display if it's always "jarringly" in motion like that.
@@MentourPilot The part of the screen that hasn't loaded yet should be greyed out or something so it is clear that isn't loaded. Not loaded and nothing to display shouldn't look the same. On a modern aircraft like a 777, though, I can't see any reason for a delay - it should keep both screens ready for display at any time so it can switch over immediately. When I'm in Word and click on Excel on the taskbar it doesn't take 8 seconds to load...
This reminds me of the first time I ever drove in snow. Context: - where I live, snow isn’t super common and people are terrible at driving in it - my mom grew up in an area that gets snow regularly, so I had been taught what steps to follow - the snow came down very suddenly I was picking up my sister from school, and even though when I’d left my school it had just started snowing, I couldn’t see the lines by the time I left her school. There’s a steep hill with a sharp turn right before our neighborhood, and there was a row of cars that slowly morphed from traffic to stuck cars, and I saw a car slide from the oncoming lane horizontally all the way to the shoulder on our side of the road. Slow and steady, I got us back home. I’d handed my sister my phone, and she was texting my mom the entire time. We got home safely, thankfully. I asked if I should park the car in the garage or just leave it on the street, got told to just leave it on the street, and turned the car off. I went inside, and immediately curled up in a blanket on the couch holding my knees and reflecting on what had just happened. Adrenaline’s some crazy stuff, haha. But at least I feel pretty confident about driving in the snow after that!
To anyone: If you’re ever driving and trying to come to a stop but your car is sliding forward on snow, slush, or ice, continuously pump your foot brake until your car stops moving. Also, if you live in a snowy climate, studded winter tires are more pricey but can be life-saving
@@user-sj5jh8zt2p This is never a bad idea, and also know that some cars have anti-lock brake systems (abs), which automatically pump the brakes, so if your car does have those, it is safe to slam on the brakes. Though, again, it’s never a bad idea to pump the brakes.
@@Piper_____ Right, just what I wanted to write. At my younger times I learned the „fake abs braking“ but today Stepp with all force on the brakes and the car still follows the front wheels.
@@TheApp9 The car I was in on that day had ABS braking, but I was still pumping the brakes. Even though I knew theoretically it would be okay, I was pumping those brakes! I’d only learned to drive a few years earlier, but I’d still been taught that ABS was the exception to the rule (it’s actually fairly common these days), and that I shouldn’t rely on it. There was a moment where I started braking multiple seconds behind a van that I’d seen had stopped (right before the huge hill!), and even though I’d given myself multiple seconds of time, I still only finally stopped a few feet behind its bumper. There’s another thing about driving in snow, to anyone who might find this relevant: give yourself serious space, and only come to a complete stop when you must (lest you get stuck). Leaving a lot of space means that even if the person in front of you is stopping and starting, you don’t have to stop fully. It also makes everything safer, and lets you adapt based on what you see the car in front of you dealing with.
When you said that the Captain had collided with another aircraft, while performing a terrain escape maneuver in a simulator session, and the actual flight for which he was PIC , was in a region with no radar coverage, my hairs stood on end. Relieved they got to their destination safely. You mentioned ASSUME in a prior video. Assumptions made during approach briefing, switching between display modes and resolution modes, led to a terrifying but thankfully not fatal situation.
You would think that ATC would direct any traffic over a mountain or volcano with plenty of HAGL on top of MOCA to provide for the emergency situation that a plane in that region needs to do perform a sudden terrain escape maneuver. Would seem to be such an obvious precautionary procedure to me.
I'm caring for a little crow that a neighbour found and their "design" is amazing, non-rigid wings , wingtips that help counter drag from rotors, self cleaning cockpit windows, hyper-reliable neural-net powered collison avoidance system, stall-free flight down to bicycle speeds,no runways, no gear, but zero-velocity spot landings, they always know where they are and random unregulated trees are not obstacles but actually preferred landing spots ...
I don't know about that decision to level off in the face of constant "terrain" warnings(?). I think I would have relied on TCAS to warn of any traffic above and continued climbing.
Yup. And especially in that area, there's not many planes in the first place, and who would fly _just_ over that mountain?? (but hindsight is cheating, lol)
Seems a little late to be worried about other traffic. Especially without radar coverage, shouldn't he have told ATC that they wanted to deviate north of the planned IFR route and obtained an amended clearance BEFORE they deviated?!
Wasn't leveling off to help give them a better climb? So they could escape terrain faster? Edit: nvm I thought you were talking about leveling the wings. I made this comment before that part of the vid (I'm still watching)
@@petep.2092 It did say in the video that the captain discussed with the controller their deviation to the north of course. Generally, in similar situations, a controller will just say something like - "deviations to the north of course for weather approved". In this case, neither the pilots nor the controller had any idea how far north of course they actually were.
No, there weren't getting warnings anymore, you can't disobey them. The terrain charts were up so they could navigate properly, they just would have been better off at the safety altitude, though they didn't know what it was at the time. Due to appropriate action they were always well clear of the terrain, the issue was the collision course.
Thank you very much for picking this dangerous incident up! The incident shows clearly that EGWS can make the difference between life and death in such a situation - and of course the quick and right reaction of the flight crew. In this case they had finally a huge piece of luck - fortunately the FO reacted not immediately to the dangerous command of the Captain.
Swiss air 111 would be a brilliant one for you to do . Would you have attempted to ditch the plane in the water knowing there was not enough time to reach an airport?. That would have been one terrifying situation to be in on your own in a dark cockpit filled with smoke.
I like the videos just as much where nobody gets killed. You cover many aspects of piloting that wouldn't otherwise be talked about and it keeps me always on the edge of my seat for every video not knowing if the plane will come to a safe landing, or crash 400 passengers into the side of a mountain. I never know what you will say, that gives your videos a tension that would not be there if they all ended with death.
My uncle, a Pan Am Clipper captain told me after describing to him one of my early aviation “events” said, “if you live through them, it will make you a better pilot.” Roger that!!!
Another excellent, educational representation of an incident that we can all learn from. The crew were very experienced and competent, the Swiss cheese model is relevant with the factors of a long duty period, no radar and even English as a second language between ATC. From someone who has heard the “whoop whoop pull up”, this episode had my attention. My experience with EGPWS was triggered by heavy rain in a thunderstorm, it was so heavy, it triggered the RA warning for terrain closure.
This video quality is amazing, i love the downpour scene at about the 17-18 minute area, this incident shows how important situational awareness really is in aviation Edit: i found it, its at 18:32
Excellent Video! It also shows how important all the "little helpers" in the cockpit are and how far avionics have come. You can easily imagine that if this incident hapened 30 or 40 Years earlier without EGPWS/GPWS, the outcome would have been a controlled flight into terrain instead of some soiled underwear.....
I ended up watching all of your air accident investigation videos in a span of a week. I was waiting for the new video to drop. You tell really engaging stories, from a pilots perspective. i appreciate the effort.
Mentour, I just want to say that your videos are very professional, informative and educational, nomatter what the crowd is flying. Your videos highlight dangers mitigation and importance of planning in flight. Thats something that keeps me thinking more about it, and to think more critically when I am flying myself. I'm no professional, I only fly gliders, but bad accidents happen there too, decision making is the same, and it is important not to get complacent. Thank you for what are you doing, and it is really mentourly of you to do these things for free.
I used to be a big fan of Air Crash Investigation by National Geographic Channel. But your videos, probably made at a fraction of that TV Channel's budget are so much more superior in actual quality and technical detail that when I went back to watching an Air Crash Investigation episode, it felt amateur compared to your videos. The difference is that you bring all your professional pilot experience into these videos while the TV show is just made by regular producers with no aviation expertise. Thanks for your content once again!
8 seconds to update? If memory serves, that exceeds some responsiveness requirements airbus establishes for UI design - things like how long the UI can go without putting up an hour glass or progress bar. A progress bar may not make sense in context of a radar display, but the general idea of indicating ‘this data is not ready’ *should still apply.* Suggestion: when changing the radar display configuration, clearly indicate that the presently displayed information is out of date, and indicate when the first sweep is complete. For example: draw a loose grid of grey+black lines across the display and allow the sweep to clear it. Alternately, always draw a line indicating the sweep progress. Anything, so long as it’s made clear that the radar hasn’t updated yet. This is doubly important as there are factors that can alter perception of time, such as the body’s response to emergencies - don’t trust the user’s internal clock to know when the display updated - tell them.
At the same time it's apparently just stored map data using the GPS the same as any sat nav, the update should be in miliseconds unless theres a loss of GPS/other signlal. So someone seriously messed up there.
Yeah, this is inexcusable computer/UI/1950’s update rate/ design. It’s like it was intentionally made to trick the pilot and say “gotcha!” You didn’t count to 8! I feel like REI sells better stuff.
Whatever you're using for the graphics in this video, the quality is superb. Thanks, Petter. Good to hear that this close call was not a disaster, and that all pilots can benefit from it.
Microsoft flight simulator 2020 is a stunning beautiful game. And now that the Fenix and PMDG have released their study level tube liners, the cockpits have become very realistic.
I accidently clicked on one of your videos ages and ages ago with no interest in planes / flying at all, but I watched it. I immediately subbed and have been hooked ever since. You make them so interesting and explain everything so well that even I can understand. Keep up the fantastic work. Love from the UK.
Well handled by the crew in an extremely stressful situation. Very interesting video as always, much better than the Aircrash investigation videos, keep up the great work!!
@@DeltaStar777 Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.(John 3:16)🥳❤️😁❤️🫂❤️😎
Id love to see you do a video on JAL 123. I find that to be the most fascinating flight/crash ever. The way those guys kept that terribly damaged plane up for so long and no one has ever been able to reproduce what they did. They were heroes who fought to the end. I love listening to you explain what happened.
I can't help feeling that the approach chart ought to have moved the inset up or down a little. That would have created a break in the flight-path, so it would be harder to mistake it for a continuous map.
It's because the map is the approach map with you starting from Malabo so it has to be drawn as an inset and with a straight line, because you will be flying a straight line from there to the intercept. It's a case of always use the right tool for the job. The FO should have noticed that MBO is E8 44 and DLA is 9 44, approx 1 degree of Longitude, which at the Equator is 60nm. On the map, Mt. Cameroon is shown as 30+nm from DLA, so he should have been aware that Mt. Cameroon was in their way if they flew to the north.
@@axelBr1 Why does the line need to be straight for that? It just needs to be at the same angle. The disconnection doesn't even need to be large -- moving the inset up or down 5mm would be plenty enough to give the visual cue.
Two things a pilot never wants to hear when he's flying, (1) Terrain, terrain (2) your alimony and child support payments have not arrived. Great video mentor pilot.
Interesting video. I'm amazed it takes a full 8 seconds for those navigation screens to refresh. That's a long time, especially compared to the responsiveness we're used to these days in modern computer devices. Might have been acceptable back in 1994 when the first version of the 777 was being designed, but these days, there should definitely be an indicator that the data is loading. Sure the pilots might be trained to know it takes that long, but in a stressful environment like relatively low storm flying like this, it's very easy to just assume you can flip it back and forth quickly.
I flew Airbus' for several years and somehow, this critical bit of information never made it into my memory banks. It is critically important for pilots to realize the limitations of our technology (and sometimes manufacturers are not so forthcoming with making them known... 'can we say Boeing 737 Max, boys and girls?)
The data on the screen is updated as the radar scans left and right, think of being in the dark with a torch. The update time has nothing to do with the hardware updating the image.
It is important to discuss these 'close calls' as pilots can learn from them. To me the PF overadjusted for the thunderstorms by flying to the left. There was good CRM when the GPW alarm went off, letting the FO continue be the lead PF.
Re: Displays taking time (8s) to update: I feel these should indicate the refresh delay issue with an egg timer indicator and/or countdown to refresh completion.
@@tactileslut Actually, when you change channels on a TV, it *doesn't* have the prior frame of the new channel buffered. It has to start with the next frame. In that case, it's only 1-2 24ths of a second to get the new picture up, so you don't notice.
I hadn't scrolled farther down, but I replied to a newer comment, as he indicated that there should be an indicated, should it be the Windows hourglass or the Macintosh beachball? Egg timer would work too.
I totally agree. Even if it was just small led light in the selector - just some visual reminder of some sort that they should wait for update of the screen. Keeping in mind something as trivial as this just distracts users (pilots) from more important things they should be thinking about in high workload.
Hi Petter. I hope that you realize how tremendous is your contribution for the aviation's safety. I guess I am not the only cabin Crew watching all of your videos and learning every time the lessons from the stories you tell. I am sure that there are a lot of flight crew and cadets as well. The way you do it is unique and of course with an experienced mentour pilot point of view. CRM, decision making, learning from mistakes and how to avoid them etc. If I can give you one accident for maybe one day..who knows.. Varig 254. That one shows how CRM is an amazing gift for the aviation world and the disaster of when there wasn't any. Thanks for your contribution and I am looking forward for the next one.
Mate - your videos are outstanding. Simple enough to appeal to everyone, while still providing a full understanding of the underlying technical issues. And you are a great presenter. Your videos make their content relevant beyond aviation as well - the human factors aspects that you highlight, apply universally, and the way you present them makes that very understandable. Thank you very much.
I have flown (daylight, as a pax but in the jumpseat) several times from São Tomé, via Bioko to Douala, in a little Nord262 turboprop. There are several 7-12,000' volcanoes along the route. I'm surprised that any crew flying regular routes doesn't establish good situational awareness, in advance. Even if it was their first time, I wouldn't just rely on the Jeppesen chart to know what is ahead, left, right and behind me.
Even if you had a perfect 1:1 scale memory of the terrain, it would still be impossible as you will be missing visual cues as its night time with strong weather. Your sense of movement, speed and time is taken out from you in these kind of situation.
@@topethermohenes7658 yes, but starting out from a simple map reading error that a 15,000 foot volcano is to your 11 o'clock not 1 o'clock was the biggest hole in the cheese, and they did that before even leaving the stand. Night flying and bad weather didnt even come into it. This could EASILY have been an AA965 in Cali. Situational awareness of the local geography would have prevented that.
@@topethermohenes7658 I would know, in advance,when taking off from Malabo and then heading north, that Mount Cameroon is ON MY RIGHT, NOT MY LEFT. If not sure, I would keep my terrain radar on, and also be aware of refresh rates. There are more holes than cheese on this one. Fact remains, an experienced crew with insufficient local familiarity knowingly took off into a series of thunderstorms on a low altitude short hop with no ATC radar, KNOWING there was a 15,000' mountain out there, but seemingly comfortable to not have its exact location in their cognisance at all times. When, following a GPWS you bypass the summit 2'000 below and a mile or so to the side, that is pure luck, not training. Once GPWS sounded they should have climbed to 15,000'+ and not leveled off. They got lucky, after a 1st escape.
@@stephengrimmer35 as I said, in those situations time is lost on you, "on my right, not my left" kind of thought is what will kill you, right not left can be less than 5mins of difference in the speed they were travelling. Well those other things are what will keep your situation awareness for sure, terrain radar, vors etc etc, but NEVER is memory a good basis, thats the reason so many GA non ifr rated pilots have cfit. Even if you had 10 years flying a particular route everyday, a moment of uncertainty is a lifetime.
00:28 Those were the very words uttered by the crew of Air New Zealand flight 901, the one that crashed into Mount Erebus in the Antarctic in the 1980s. 'Where are we?' In that case their plane had been programmed to fly the wrong route, unbeknown to them. They thought they were over flat ice, because that was what they had been briefed on, but they were actually flying over rising ground, straight at a mountain.
Incredible crew management & also great they were with 3 flight crew instead of 2, because I think you can talk your mind more easily with a crowdy 3 instead of the normal 2 where you would just go along whatever the person next to you thinks is happening / with whatever idea floated first... who knows..
Per the discussion on the zoom hangout, I have now completed watching the episode, Petter. This is a very fascinating incident, and thankfully had a happy ending. It was also great to have been able to join you all on the hangout for once, which actually gave me some insights into the video before finishing it. Looking forward to the next video. Great work as always.
Would love to see an analysis from you on Value Jet 592 in Miami. One which cost the director of the FAA his job for failure to implement safety protocol recommendations from the NTSB years earlier
"So there's an inset on the chart that's not to scale, but good luck, guys." In landscape design, a scale fault can be an expensive and embarrassing problem, but not a safety issue. Yikes. Add: who else goes 😬 whenever Petter says, "...and that's going to become very important very soon"?
I'm glad to see an investigation on a situation that didn't end badly. Sometimes we people get so stuck up in learning from our failuires that we forget to learn from our mistakes.
I think it's important to note the other comments made by the crew in the report regarding the EGWPS training. That while it was incredibly useful, it did not address a terrain warning while performing a turn
Hi Petter, I caught your arrival and departure from Brussels last Tuesday. I was really happy to have seen you!! Hope you enjoyed the VOR approach to runway 07L. Will you fly again to Brussels any time soon?
Hi! We actually had some problems with that approach, I was teaching a brand new cadet at the time and that’s always challenging. 😂 Glad you caught me on camera, I would love to see it.
As usual, Peter, a professional, well articulated accident study. I truly look forward to seeing each one of your uploads. You are a great teacher and as a student who is about to take his commercial check ride in two days I pick up a lot of good information that I plan to carry it into the future. Thank you for what you do.
You make these incidents so real. Thanks for sharing your expertise. Your videos are so incredibly compelling - they are a must watch for aviation enthusiasts!
I'm glad it worked out of course but it seems to me like they got very lucky to be a little north of the highest peak. Otherwise it could have been a disaster. nice to hear the pilots talking to each other with respect that doesn't always happen does it? 👍💯🇺🇸
Quality content as always 🤝 I recently flew for holidays since the COVID business relaxed. And having binge watched most likely all of your videos I for the first time felt very easy being on the plane. Was not afraid of take off, the sinking feeling, turbulence or landing, there were even thunderstorms with lighting quite close during the landing in Turkey, and even then I felt confident and safe. In general it felt comfortable knowing how much work the industry puts into safety. So thank you 🤝👊👍
Hello that happened to me near Anniston Alabama USA, big thunder bumpers and a big mountain, after I landed and exit the airport I started to shake uncontrollably, the doctor said it was my adrenaline dissipating , something important I adding everything felt moving very slowly around me. Great Presentation thanks for the memories
Great video MP in sharing risk identification and that regardless of experience we are always at risk from those things we assume. I think another layer in the swiss cheese model could be the sim training the captain had received whereby he experienced a traffic collision after a GPWS pull up. This strikes me as negative training because it made them not to do the immediate action of climbing above the dominant MSA which would have kept them safe and allowed them to rebuild their SA. It also highlights the benefits of putting range rings around obstacles which remain regardless of which display each pilot is monitoring. Thank you for the video.
So nice to hear about an incident where nobody was injured, fatally or otherwise. The crew made a navigation error, but handled everything properly and professionally.
In this case, the terrain escape would have been a lot easier by stopping the right turn and even turning left, but I understand that it is important to have a simple escape procedure and not waste time finding the optimal response.
It's not just simplicity. If you have gotten into a situation where you have to do a terrain escape manouver then you are already terribly lost; your ideas about which direction to go can no longer be relied on, so the only way to go is up. You also sacrifice climb rate by turning.
Hi Mentour. Not sure if you'll see this message but i just want to express my gratitude to you for your videos. I have always been passionate in aviation but i feel that i have a love hate relationship with it. I'm incredibly blessed to currently have a job in a major international airline (non flying role). Due to my partial colour blindness however, i was not able to pursue my dream to become a pilot. I was heartbroken... and everytime i see my friends becoming pilots or read/ watch any aviation contents online, a small part of me was always reminded that i could never achieve my childhood dream. I was still interested in aviation matters but day by day i started to lose the passion and love for airplanes that i had when i was a kid. But for the past few months i have been watching a ton of your videos -- the air accident series is my favorite tho :) . they're incredibly insightful and well made, and i can see your passion for aviation reflected in these videos. So many insights that i never really read or learn before. And your videos have really reignite my passion and remotivated me to learn more on the flying, safety, and technical aspects of aviation. Thank you for this. 🙏
Thank you so much for your nice message. I’m sorry to hear about the color-blindness stopping you but you seem to be doing well. Thanks again for supporting the channel and what I do, it’s really appreciated. 💕
I would not give up on your dream of becoming a pilot just yet. There are several companies working on eyeglasses with virtual reality and augmented reality features. I would think that these glasses could be programmed to show colors that you cannot differentiate into colors that you are able to differentiate, or that they could use some type of pattern to differentiate colors.
Great to hear all of the safety measures are worked as intended. But for me it was a very strange decision to let this crew proceed this day. After very stressful situation you can not usually concentrate well. I think for Air France - to give this crew a proper rest would not be an end of the world.
I have mentionned you on twitter about that incident, thanks for have made a video about it. The crew have made a mistake but their reaction was really professionnal
I personally (as a tech who has repaired a few dozen airborne weather radars in a former life) like the classic display. In olden days the returns were painted as they were received, producing a windshield wiper effect. The returns persisted but faded as the high-persistence phosphor returned to normal. If it were all flashed on the screen at once the data on the left side of the update line would be a full pass old, and in the middle would be half a pass old. When you see the screen in action it makes sense.
This was an interesting one. There are several cheese holes as usual, in particular the dark and the weather, and that inset on the chart is one of the most misleading I have ever seen. Good on the flight crew for getting out of it and keeping a positive attitude. Thanks for the video, the obscure incidents are nice to learn from!
Nice to see an incident in which a GPWS "Terrain, Terrain, Pull Up" alert is not eventually followed by "Unfortunately, there were no survivors". Terrain escape manoeuvres can work when done quickly enough!
That's the difference between GPWS and EGPWS right there. Absolutely life-saving technology. Funnily enough, we can actually thank Russia for this - the Soviets had created terrain maps of the entire world, and following the collapse of the Soviet Union, they became available for purchase on the black market. Honeywell paid up, and the rest is history.
not all the time , depends on the weather , aircraft weight , speed at the time initiated , its the last line of defense before impact , the important factor is to bleed every knot in exchange of altitude and reducing ground speed
@@dxb8788 I don't think you understood.
Of course a lot of those are when the aircraft is in a seriously degraded condition rather than just navigation errors. "Terrain, Pull Up" is almost always going to be the last thing you hear on a fatal flight regardless of whether it's CFIT or mechanical damage.
There is an airport in Bhutan where they go through the mountains right after takeoff and the terrain warning comes out several times as they snake their way through the valley before climbing out over the mountains. Scary.
I'm impressed by the professionalism of this crew. Anyone can make mistakes. These people overcame that threat.
Yes, training prevailed
Mentour Pilot, any plans for covering the tragic crash of Inex-Adria Aviopromet Flight 1308 ?
Soo true... Weather avoidance at low altitude with high terrain nearby need to be carefully briefed... Been there, done that...
Choose one.. hit the hard stuff.. or the soft wibly wobly stuff..
The way the copilot just instinctively went into survive mode and used all his training to escape the mountain, and then once on the ground he started to shake up and actually process what he just did is what amazes me.
@@PilotGery1 😂in that part of the world, TS are a bit more than ‘wibby wobbly’
Rule of flight: Mountains always have right of way. Planes must yield.
Indeed 😂😂
Hahaha!
Asking nicely still ain't working?
🤣
Sort of like… the train ALWAYS has the right of way! 😱
@@californiahiker9616 As long as you build the tunnel before sending the train in...
Phew! That was close! I had a similar experience when approaching Bogota, Colombia one time. ATC gave me a bad vector and the plane missed some rocky terrain by just a few feet. I was so shaken up I had to pause the game and go get a snack.
*"Bogota, Columbia"*
If you had actually flown in Colombia you would have known that Columbia and Colombia are not the same thing. ;-)
@@coriscotupi
True!
(but could also just be an autocorrect error)
You dont know how hard i laughed after reading that last comment. I couldnt catch my breath
Ahhh... ATC has asked me many times to expedite my decent into terrain in MSFS...
not gonna lie caught us at first half
Hey Petter
I'm a Cameroonian watching from cameroon🇨🇲
Appreciate your working
Covering aviation incidents from all over the world
Good job man!!
Another element on their side I suppose : with a flight this short and so few passengers, the aircraft must have been reeallyy light. The 777 climbs like a rocket when empty.
Yes, indeed. And btw.: This aircraft, delivered in March 1999 to Air France, is therefore still in active service.
Even a light trainer seems to climb like a rocket when you are solo!
They might have had plenty of cargo though, of which the 777 can take some ;) That is one of the purposes of those short flights in the region. At least, it was for Sabena back in the day, and to some extend for SN today.
Bro the Rolls Royce Trent 800 engine fitted on the Boeing 777 would be able to climb no problem with 100-200 passengers on board. Yes it will effect the plane but not as much as you think.
@@fx_playz8865 Uh, OK, but what does it have to do with it ? Air France's 777 are only fitted with GE engines.
I'm a 777 Captain for a US Air carrier.....Hearing the GPWS alert going off sounding terrain, terrain whoop whoop pull up or TCAS climb/descent raises the hair on my on my neck. With more than 10,000 hours in a triple it is by far the best Boeing airplane I have ever flown
I've only flown in a simulator, but I was surprised how little time you really have. The TCAS advisory came, we put the plane into the right vertical speed (which was enormous!) and still we could see the traffic quite closely below our aircraft. I can't believe how pilots can act quickly when this happens 3hrs into their 1500th flight, and suddenly you gotta act within seconds.
You guys aren't paid for what you do, but for what you know and trained for.
That’s pretty amazing to learn that even professional pilots can get fooled by the map inset boxes .
When I was younger I always wondered why Hawaii always had reputation for wonderful tropical weather, while Alaska was known for the opposite. I mean, they’re virtually right next to each other!!
The fact that the flight path inside the insert aligns almost perfectly with the one on the main map was a stupid idea by whoever designed the map. It should have been a centimeter sheared off on purpose just to underline the fact that this isn't really a continuous path.
I'm shocked and scared with this fact. In my truck I always know what highway I'm on and tracking weather at the same time pretty accurate over 10 years. Now I would expect modern airplanes are on the higher level but then this video opened my eyes
and pretty dumb, i mean if they ever look at geographical map in their life, not just IFR chart, they would've known that Mt Cameroon was NEVER at the exact north of the island.
@pushslice there were only 2 things that kept me from getting that confused while I was a kid.
The first was the fact that we had a map of the world that showed the true locations of Alaska and Hawaii.
The other was the first map had an outline that showed the real scale of Alaska compared to the continental states.
If it wasn’t for those I would of thought that Hawaii was at the end of the Alaskan island chain until I was ~13
I would say this is poor map drawing
Very well explained! I am a retired airline pilot so I knew about the escape maneuver and had flown it in the simulator. You have a knack for making very complicated aviation scenarios clear and easy to understand, especially for those who never flew a commercial airliner. Well done!!
And for those who usually are more into hair and make up but now somehow are considering learning how to fly. Becoming even willing to give up my 👠s
@SamuelWright520 Thanks Samuel! Hope you enjoyed the Category lllb ILS Approach to 50 feet. And you might have seen me racing the motorcycle. I put up 168 mph on one race at age 67. Currently still flying professionally on a Pilatus PC-12NG after 29 years at United (retired on 1-14-2015) and 56 years after my first flying lesson. Are you a pilot?
I couldn't imagine the adrenaline dump after what happened. Bravo to the crew for fighting through not only the loss of situational awareness, but the physical toll that came after.
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.(John 3:16)🥳❤️😁❤️🫂❤️😎
Amen!
Praise Lord Jesus...
The feeling when the adrenaline starts leaving your body and the shock takes over is awful! I almost got in a car accident in January, lost control of the car completely and while I could get control of the car again and stayed cool and collected then, I started shaking so much afterwards that I couldn't continue driving, I had to sit and breathe for 20 minutes to calm down again 😅
I’m a retired ICU nurse. We used epinephrine (adrenaline) often as a life saving drug. I remember one instructor telling us that a shot of adrenaline is like running at full speed and still being urged on. It has a short half life, but has very uncomfortable side effects. The jitters is one of them. Stopping and recollecting oneself -if at all possible- is the right thing to do in order to maintain focused.
Glad you were okay. I think to some degree or other, every driver experiences that. I think it's worse when it's through one's *own* mistake.
I read somewhere that to get the adrenalin out of the system one has to use as many muscles as possible. The adrenalin serves to make the body (muscles) ready to perform at the highest intensity. So if one is sitting and not using much muscle the adrenalin is not being used up by muscle activity. The best remedy is to exercise as heavily as possible. Otherwise the adrenalin makes the muscles work by themselves and that shows in the jitter and heartbeat. Also no good for the arteries and venes. The get constricted to get up bloodpressure.
One can observe this behavior on animals. If e.g. a hare faces a tough situation where it would have to run its body releases adrenalin. But if it then hasn't to do it (rejected take off) because the threat was only perceived but not really there, like in a accidental meet with a person, it will then still run a few rounds just to work the adrenalin out of the body.
There's a reason pretty much every thrill ride has a place to sit after you get off. (well, two: it also provides a spot to meet up with non riders after.) Even when it's expected, people often need a moment to reorient and get themselves back in order.
I had almost the same thing after almost hitting a herd of deer while driving at night a few years ago. Pulled over safely, got out to check for damage, as it was so close I couldn't tell for sure if I hit anything. No damage, so I got back in the car, but I had to give myself a few minutes afterwards to calm down before continuing.
"That will become important soon" is Mentour's literary equivalent to "Little did they know" :D
Fantastic & interesting video as always!
And "Things are about to get much worse"
it's like how Mickey Mouse says "it's a surprise tool that will help us later", except instead of the Mickey Mouse Club House jingle, it's suspenseful piano music
"the last thing any pilot wants to hear"
I love your narrative. Captivating but not overly dramatic 👍
Thank you. That’s what I’m going for
He is a natural born storyteller. He holds your attention the whole time.
I think it would be also good if the weather or terrain radar screens displayed something (a grid, a specific colour) until they have been refreshed after chainging mode or scale. That would also help avoid that incident.
Completely agreed. I just posted a similar comment before noticing yours. Displaying "all clear" and "not yet loaded" as the same colour is a disastrously poor UX design, in this case almost literally.
@@TheDeadfast Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.(John 3:16)🥳❤️😁❤️🫂❤️😎
@@alunesh12345 cmon man don't harass people with your cult religion
@@alunesh12345 I'm actually a Satanist sorry
Yes… add a spinner icon, for heaven’s sake.
I'm impressed by the crew's thoroughness, they knew they faced danger and took their time (wisdom) to assess their flight plan.
And then subsequently did not follow it. 😂🛫🌋
I really enjoy your videos! I'm just a housewife in Pennsylvania, USA. I've only flown as a passenger a dozen times, let alone have any knowledge of how to actually fly an aircraft! I started watching your videos looking for the "gory details." Now I watch because of how much I learn and because of how you break things down to make the complex understandable to someone like myself. You are a natural born teacher!!
Hi @Kathleen Seibert,
I'm also a non-pilot who really enjoys learning from Petter's amazing videos. But I just wanted to say - NO ONE is "just" a housewife. We work extremely hard ensuring that people are safe, well-fed, well-dressed, and well-rested, so that they can go out and contribute directly. Our work is just as valuable as theirs.
@@moviemad56 amen. You guys are the backbone to the next generation. Keep it up
As a non-aviator I find it astonishing to learn that any airport that could accommodate a 777 might lack adequate weather reporting capabilities.
Slapping down a piece of concrete is easier than having a weatherstation with precise information and a network to distribute that information it seems.
@@glax2174 Yes.
And why are they flying over there??
Putting passengers in danger
@@goxyeagle8446 ???
@@NicolaW72 No necessary radar on that airport. According to other pilots it's dangerous to fly in that area.
Hvala.
Dear mentor pilot. I immensly enjoy your stories. If you need classical music as your background, just let me know.
Hello Mentour,I'm a Cameroonian fan of yours and I love the way you describe flying in your simple and easy way.I had actually heard about the incident but didn't get the details of it till now....was at a loss how such an incident could happen on a B777.... Keep up the videos Captain!!👍🏽
I have flown this route between Malabo and Douala so many times in my previous airline, and I can say it’s as challenging as explained. The short flight time (sometimes down to 11 minutes depending on the runways in use), the high terrain around both airports, lack of radar that makes the ATCs life even harder, added to how quickly the area can be flooded with CBs as this area is under the influence of the ITCZ for most of the year (Hard to check the FGSL or FKKD METAR or TAF without seeing CBs mentioned)
I look back from a relatively easier place for aviation and I have to say I have enormous respect to those pilots that fly in this area and under these conditions. They are real champions and in most cases they don’t know it.
Great video, as always man
Lack of what radar?
@@goxyeagle8446 The control towers don't have radar.
@@amritlohia8240 I wouldn't fly over there then
Why did they build 2 airports 11 minutes flight appart from each other. Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to use boats. And how can the ATC do an effective job without radar? Get them a radar.
@@niconico3907 2 different countries.
From a software design perspective, it's inexcusable for critical flight displays not to tell the pilot when they're loading. Who has an accurate 8-second internal clock in the heat of the moment?
It’s not counting down, it will start to present the information immediately but in a “swath” pattern starting from left to right like a radar swipe. It can take up to 8 seconds to update all info.
I think a swiping line might actually be easier to read. It looks like when the displays contain data in all areas it is fairly easy to gauge where the refresh line currently is, but when the data is sparse it's simply black. A visible refresh line would essentially make what the pilots are already used to more visible.
@@MentourPilot yeah, either way i agree with the spirit of what alexdi said. it needs to be completely unambiguous to the user that their display hasn't fully updated
@@Kenionatus I think a visible refresh line for a few cycles/seconds after changing mode would be useful, as well as maybe a toggle that keeps the refresh line permanently on, if so desired. Having the refresh line permanently and unchangeably visible could potentially reduce peripheral awareness of the display, as it would be constant motion, so you could end up not being able to notice relevant changes from that display if it's always "jarringly" in motion like that.
@@MentourPilot The part of the screen that hasn't loaded yet should be greyed out or something so it is clear that isn't loaded. Not loaded and nothing to display shouldn't look the same. On a modern aircraft like a 777, though, I can't see any reason for a delay - it should keep both screens ready for display at any time so it can switch over immediately. When I'm in Word and click on Excel on the taskbar it doesn't take 8 seconds to load...
This reminds me of the first time I ever drove in snow. Context:
- where I live, snow isn’t super common and people are terrible at driving in it
- my mom grew up in an area that gets snow regularly, so I had been taught what steps to follow
- the snow came down very suddenly
I was picking up my sister from school, and even though when I’d left my school it had just started snowing, I couldn’t see the lines by the time I left her school. There’s a steep hill with a sharp turn right before our neighborhood, and there was a row of cars that slowly morphed from traffic to stuck cars, and I saw a car slide from the oncoming lane horizontally all the way to the shoulder on our side of the road. Slow and steady, I got us back home. I’d handed my sister my phone, and she was texting my mom the entire time. We got home safely, thankfully. I asked if I should park the car in the garage or just leave it on the street, got told to just leave it on the street, and turned the car off. I went inside, and immediately curled up in a blanket on the couch holding my knees and reflecting on what had just happened.
Adrenaline’s some crazy stuff, haha. But at least I feel pretty confident about driving in the snow after that!
To anyone: If you’re ever driving and trying to come to a stop but your car is sliding forward on snow, slush, or ice, continuously pump your foot brake until your car stops moving. Also, if you live in a snowy climate, studded winter tires are more pricey but can be life-saving
@@user-sj5jh8zt2p This is never a bad idea, and also know that some cars have anti-lock brake systems (abs), which automatically pump the brakes, so if your car does have those, it is safe to slam on the brakes. Though, again, it’s never a bad idea to pump the brakes.
@@Piper_____ Right, just what I wanted to write. At my younger times I learned the „fake abs braking“ but today Stepp with all force on the brakes and the car still follows the front wheels.
@@TheApp9 The car I was in on that day had ABS braking, but I was still pumping the brakes. Even though I knew theoretically it would be okay, I was pumping those brakes! I’d only learned to drive a few years earlier, but I’d still been taught that ABS was the exception to the rule (it’s actually fairly common these days), and that I shouldn’t rely on it.
There was a moment where I started braking multiple seconds behind a van that I’d seen had stopped (right before the huge hill!), and even though I’d given myself multiple seconds of time, I still only finally stopped a few feet behind its bumper.
There’s another thing about driving in snow, to anyone who might find this relevant: give yourself serious space, and only come to a complete stop when you must (lest you get stuck). Leaving a lot of space means that even if the person in front of you is stopping and starting, you don’t have to stop fully. It also makes everything safer, and lets you adapt based on what you see the car in front of you dealing with.
@@user-sj5jh8zt2p As a Canadian, studded winter tire is a must in my book. I recommend it to everyone who is planning to drive in the winter month.
When you said that the Captain had collided with another aircraft, while performing a terrain escape maneuver in a simulator session, and the actual flight for which he was PIC , was in a region with no radar coverage, my hairs stood on end. Relieved they got to their destination safely. You mentioned ASSUME in a prior video. Assumptions made during approach briefing, switching between display modes and resolution modes, led to a terrifying but thankfully not fatal situation.
You would think that ATC would direct any traffic over a mountain or volcano with plenty of HAGL on top of MOCA to provide for the emergency situation that a plane in that region needs to do perform a sudden terrain escape maneuver. Would seem to be such an obvious precautionary procedure to me.
u love commas
Thanks!
I'm caring for a little crow that a neighbour found and their "design" is
amazing, non-rigid wings , wingtips that help counter drag from rotors, self
cleaning cockpit windows, hyper-reliable neural-net powered collison
avoidance system, stall-free flight down to bicycle speeds,no runways, no gear, but zero-velocity spot
landings, they always know where they are and random unregulated trees are not obstacles but actually preferred landing spots ...
Also auto-brake and thrust reverse.
Amazing platform! And yet I've had that model crash into my living room window more than once - there's always an unanticipated threat out there...
Yeah, but 777's don't poop on your car... But if they did ???
@@DavidM2002 your car would collapse!
All defeated by Windex!
I don't know about that decision to level off in the face of constant "terrain" warnings(?). I think I would have relied on TCAS to warn of any traffic above and continued climbing.
Yup.
And especially in that area, there's not many planes in the first place, and who would fly _just_ over that mountain??
(but hindsight is cheating, lol)
Seems a little late to be worried about other traffic. Especially without radar coverage, shouldn't he have told ATC that they wanted to deviate north of the planned IFR route and obtained an amended clearance BEFORE they deviated?!
Wasn't leveling off to help give them a better climb? So they could escape terrain faster?
Edit: nvm I thought you were talking about leveling the wings. I made this comment before that part of the vid (I'm still watching)
@@petep.2092 It did say in the video that the captain discussed with the controller their deviation to the north of course. Generally, in similar situations, a controller will just say something like - "deviations to the north of course for weather approved". In this case, neither the pilots nor the controller had any idea how far north of course they actually were.
No, there weren't getting warnings anymore, you can't disobey them. The terrain charts were up so they could navigate properly, they just would have been better off at the safety altitude, though they didn't know what it was at the time. Due to appropriate action they were always well clear of the terrain, the issue was the collision course.
Thank you very much for picking this dangerous incident up! The incident shows clearly that EGWS can make the difference between life and death in such a situation - and of course the quick and right reaction of the flight crew. In this case they had finally a huge piece of luck - fortunately the FO reacted not immediately to the dangerous command of the Captain.
Thanks
I absolutely love your videos Petter.
I’m already a Patreon subscriber but you also deserve an extra thanks!
Thank you so much Steven. Its people like you who make the channel really thrive!
Swiss air 111 would be a brilliant one for you to do . Would you have attempted to ditch the plane in the water knowing there was not enough time to reach an airport?. That would have been one terrifying situation to be in on your own in a dark cockpit filled with smoke.
I like the videos just as much where nobody gets killed. You cover many aspects of piloting that wouldn't otherwise be talked about and it keeps me always on the edge of my seat for every video not knowing if the plane will come to a safe landing, or crash 400 passengers into the side of a mountain. I never know what you will say, that gives your videos a tension that would not be there if they all ended with death.
My uncle, a Pan Am Clipper captain told me after describing to him one of my early aviation “events” said, “if you live through them, it will make you a better pilot.” Roger that!!!
But one with a larger laundry bill! ;-j)
...or PTSD for life.
Another excellent, educational representation of an incident that we can all learn from. The crew were very experienced and competent, the Swiss cheese model is relevant with the factors of a long duty period, no radar and even English as a second language between ATC. From someone who has heard the “whoop whoop pull up”, this episode had my attention. My experience with EGPWS was triggered by heavy rain in a thunderstorm, it was so heavy, it triggered the RA warning for terrain closure.
This video quality is amazing, i love the downpour scene at about the 17-18 minute area, this incident shows how important situational awareness really is in aviation
Edit: i found it, its at 18:32
Thank you! I’m so glad you liked it!
Excellent Video! It also shows how important all the "little helpers" in the cockpit are and how far avionics have come. You can easily imagine that if this incident hapened 30 or 40 Years earlier without EGPWS/GPWS, the outcome would have been a controlled flight into terrain instead of some soiled underwear.....
@@Wursthaufen Yes, exactly.
Sally and his team, the rescue workers all are heroes. Hats off to all of them.
I ended up watching all of your air accident investigation videos in a span of a week. I was waiting for the new video to drop. You tell really engaging stories, from a pilots perspective. i appreciate the effort.
Air Crash Investigation at its best & no repeats over and over again. Love it
Mentour, I just want to say that your videos are very professional, informative and educational, nomatter what the crowd is flying. Your videos highlight dangers mitigation and importance of planning in flight. Thats something that keeps me thinking more about it, and to think more critically when I am flying myself. I'm no professional, I only fly gliders, but bad accidents happen there too, decision making is the same, and it is important not to get complacent. Thank you for what are you doing, and it is really mentourly of you to do these things for free.
I used to be a big fan of Air Crash Investigation by National Geographic Channel. But your videos, probably made at a fraction of that TV Channel's budget are so much more superior in actual quality and technical detail that when I went back to watching an Air Crash Investigation episode, it felt amateur compared to your videos. The difference is that you bring all your professional pilot experience into these videos while the TV show is just made by regular producers with no aviation expertise. Thanks for your content once again!
8 seconds to update? If memory serves, that exceeds some responsiveness requirements airbus establishes for UI design - things like how long the UI can go without putting up an hour glass or progress bar.
A progress bar may not make sense in context of a radar display, but the general idea of indicating ‘this data is not ready’ *should still apply.*
Suggestion: when changing the radar display configuration, clearly indicate that the presently displayed information is out of date, and indicate when the first sweep is complete.
For example: draw a loose grid of grey+black lines across the display and allow the sweep to clear it. Alternately, always draw a line indicating the sweep progress. Anything, so long as it’s made clear that the radar hasn’t updated yet. This is doubly important as there are factors that can alter perception of time, such as the body’s response to emergencies - don’t trust the user’s internal clock to know when the display updated - tell them.
At the same time it's apparently just stored map data using the GPS the same as any sat nav, the update should be in miliseconds unless theres a loss of GPS/other signlal. So someone seriously messed up there.
Yes, exactly.
Agree, as it look like the computer is already knowing the map and where they are (for the terrain detection) , why wait 8s to print it on screen...
Yeah, this is inexcusable computer/UI/1950’s update rate/ design. It’s like it was intentionally made to trick the pilot and say “gotcha!” You didn’t count to 8! I feel like REI sells better stuff.
Whatever you're using for the graphics in this video, the quality is superb. Thanks, Petter.
Good to hear that this close call was not a disaster, and that all pilots can benefit from it.
Microsoft flight simulator 2020 is a stunning beautiful game. And now that the Fenix and PMDG have released their study level tube liners, the cockpits have become very realistic.
Your story telling is so good. Even when nothing horrible happens, the tale you spin is still enthralling. Fantastic work.
I accidently clicked on one of your videos ages and ages ago with no interest in planes / flying at all, but I watched it. I immediately subbed and have been hooked ever since. You make them so interesting and explain everything so well that even I can understand. Keep up the fantastic work. Love from the UK.
Well handled by the crew in an extremely stressful situation. Very interesting video as always, much better than the Aircrash investigation videos, keep up the great work!!
Thank you! We do the best we can. 💕
@@MentourPilot ❤️🙏
@@DeltaStar777 Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.(John 3:16)🥳❤️😁❤️🫂❤️😎
@@alunesh12345 Why do you feel the need to all-caps "Jesus"?
Id love to see you do a video on JAL 123. I find that to be the most fascinating flight/crash ever. The way those guys kept that terribly damaged plane up for so long and no one has ever been able to reproduce what they did. They were heroes who fought to the end. I love listening to you explain what happened.
Very haunting crash.
I can't help feeling that the approach chart ought to have moved the inset up or down a little. That would have created a break in the flight-path, so it would be harder to mistake it for a continuous map.
Agreed. I had the same thought . . .
Yes; that continuous line is very confusing. They forgot visual comprehension in a few places in this incident.
It's because the map is the approach map with you starting from Malabo so it has to be drawn as an inset and with a straight line, because you will be flying a straight line from there to the intercept. It's a case of always use the right tool for the job.
The FO should have noticed that MBO is E8 44 and DLA is 9 44, approx 1 degree of Longitude, which at the Equator is 60nm. On the map, Mt. Cameroon is shown as 30+nm from DLA, so he should have been aware that Mt. Cameroon was in their way if they flew to the north.
@@axelBr1 Why does the line need to be straight for that? It just needs to be at the same angle. The disconnection doesn't even need to be large -- moving the inset up or down 5mm would be plenty enough to give the visual cue.
@@beeble2003 That's true. But the big black box around the inset should have been a clue. This is map reading 101.
Two things a pilot never wants to hear when he's flying, (1) Terrain, terrain (2) your alimony and child support payments have not arrived.
Great video mentor pilot.
😂😂
Interesting video.
I'm amazed it takes a full 8 seconds for those navigation screens to refresh. That's a long time, especially compared to the responsiveness we're used to these days in modern computer devices. Might have been acceptable back in 1994 when the first version of the 777 was being designed, but these days, there should definitely be an indicator that the data is loading. Sure the pilots might be trained to know it takes that long, but in a stressful environment like relatively low storm flying like this, it's very easy to just assume you can flip it back and forth quickly.
The aircraft was actually built in 1999
So, should it be the Windows hourglass or the Macintosh beachball? But yeah, something should be shown to indicate the 'loading.'
Maybe they could have programmed in the AOL sounds.
I flew Airbus' for several years and somehow, this critical bit of information never made it into my memory banks. It is critically important for pilots to realize the limitations of our technology (and sometimes manufacturers are not so forthcoming with making them known... 'can we say Boeing 737 Max, boys and girls?)
The data on the screen is updated as the radar scans left and right, think of being in the dark with a torch. The update time has nothing to do with the hardware updating the image.
It is important to discuss these 'close calls' as pilots can learn from them. To me the PF overadjusted for the thunderstorms by flying to the left. There was good CRM when the GPW alarm went off, letting the FO continue be the lead PF.
I agree - continuity means a lot at the moment.
Re: Displays taking time (8s) to update: I feel these should indicate the refresh delay issue with an egg timer indicator and/or countdown to refresh completion.
The data from the previous sweep should already be in a buffer, available immediately as if changing channels on a TV.
@@tactileslut Actually, when you change channels on a TV, it *doesn't* have the prior frame of the new channel buffered. It has to start with the next frame. In that case, it's only 1-2 24ths of a second to get the new picture up, so you don't notice.
I hadn't scrolled farther down, but I replied to a newer comment, as he indicated that there should be an indicated, should it be the Windows hourglass or the Macintosh beachball? Egg timer would work too.
I totally agree. Even if it was just small led light in the selector - just some visual reminder of some sort that they should wait for update of the screen.
Keeping in mind something as trivial as this just distracts users (pilots) from more important things they should be thinking about in high workload.
Thanks for the videos
Hi Petter. I hope that you realize how tremendous is your contribution for the aviation's safety. I guess I am not the only cabin Crew watching all of your videos and learning every time the lessons from the stories you tell. I am sure that there are a lot of flight crew and cadets as well.
The way you do it is unique and of course with an experienced mentour pilot point of view. CRM, decision making, learning from mistakes and how to avoid them etc.
If I can give you one accident for maybe one day..who knows.. Varig 254. That one shows how CRM is an amazing gift for the aviation world and the disaster of when there wasn't any.
Thanks for your contribution and I am looking forward for the next one.
Mate - your videos are outstanding. Simple enough to appeal to everyone, while still providing a full understanding of the underlying technical issues. And you are a great presenter. Your videos make their content relevant beyond aviation as well - the human factors aspects that you highlight, apply universally, and the way you present them makes that very understandable. Thank you very much.
These videos showcase just how much safer flying become. It is amazing.
Thanks
I have flown (daylight, as a pax but in the jumpseat) several times from São Tomé, via Bioko to Douala, in a little Nord262 turboprop. There are several 7-12,000' volcanoes along the route. I'm surprised that any crew flying regular routes doesn't establish good situational awareness, in advance. Even if it was their first time, I wouldn't just rely on the Jeppesen chart to know what is ahead, left, right and behind me.
So what would you rely on in this situation?
Even if you had a perfect 1:1 scale memory of the terrain, it would still be impossible as you will be missing visual cues as its night time with strong weather. Your sense of movement, speed and time is taken out from you in these kind of situation.
@@topethermohenes7658 yes, but starting out from a simple map reading error that a 15,000 foot volcano is to your 11 o'clock not 1 o'clock was the biggest hole in the cheese, and they did that before even leaving the stand. Night flying and bad weather didnt even come into it. This could EASILY have been an AA965 in Cali. Situational awareness of the local geography would have prevented that.
@@topethermohenes7658 I would know, in advance,when taking off from Malabo and then heading north, that Mount Cameroon is ON MY RIGHT, NOT MY LEFT. If not sure, I would keep my terrain radar on, and also be aware of refresh rates. There are more holes than cheese on this one.
Fact remains, an experienced crew with insufficient local familiarity knowingly took off into a series of thunderstorms on a low altitude short hop with no ATC radar, KNOWING there was a 15,000' mountain out there, but seemingly comfortable to not have its exact location in their cognisance at all times.
When, following a GPWS you bypass the summit 2'000 below and a mile or so to the side, that is pure luck, not training. Once GPWS sounded they should have climbed to 15,000'+ and not leveled off. They got lucky, after a 1st escape.
@@stephengrimmer35 as I said, in those situations time is lost on you, "on my right, not my left" kind of thought is what will kill you, right not left can be less than 5mins of difference in the speed they were travelling.
Well those other things are what will keep your situation awareness for sure, terrain radar, vors etc etc, but NEVER is memory a good basis, thats the reason so many GA non ifr rated pilots have cfit. Even if you had 10 years flying a particular route everyday, a moment of uncertainty is a lifetime.
00:28 Those were the very words uttered by the crew of Air New Zealand flight 901, the one that crashed into Mount Erebus in the Antarctic in the 1980s. 'Where are we?' In that case their plane had been programmed to fly the wrong route, unbeknown to them. They thought they were over flat ice, because that was what they had been briefed on, but they were actually flying over rising ground, straight at a mountain.
Incredible crew management & also great they were with 3 flight crew instead of 2, because I think you can talk your mind more easily with a crowdy 3 instead of the normal 2 where you would just go along whatever the person next to you thinks is happening / with whatever idea floated first... who knows..
Per the discussion on the zoom hangout, I have now completed watching the episode, Petter.
This is a very fascinating incident, and thankfully had a happy ending.
It was also great to have been able to join you all on the hangout for once, which actually gave me some insights into the video before finishing it.
Looking forward to the next video.
Great work as always.
Thank you for your support on Patreon. It was great to see you in the weekly hangout! Glad you found the video interesting.
@@MentourPilot how did the comment is one day ago if you uploaded just now
@@Akshay13134 patreons get a to see the video first by a link
@@lostinlife99 🆗
@@Akshay13134 because the person commenting is part of my Patreon crew. They get to preview and give feedback to my content before it becomes public.
I love the way you setup these videos. You go through all the facts, while still keeping the idea of what they must have gone through mentally.
Would love to see an analysis from you on Value Jet 592 in Miami.
One which cost the director of the FAA his job for failure to implement safety protocol recommendations from the NTSB years earlier
You are an excellent story teller and narrator Petter. My heart was beating fast as if I was in the cockpit.
"So there's an inset on the chart that's not to scale, but good luck, guys." In landscape design, a scale fault can be an expensive and embarrassing problem, but not a safety issue. Yikes.
Add: who else goes 😬 whenever Petter says, "...and that's going to become very important very soon"?
I'm glad to see an investigation on a situation that didn't end badly. Sometimes we people get so stuck up in learning from our failuires that we forget to learn from our mistakes.
Douala reminded me of Kenya Airways Flight 507...would love to see an episode on that...
I’ll add it to the list!
I am A Cameroonian and I enjoy your videos.
Thank you for the amazing longform content!
Thank YOU for watching and supporting the channel!
I just love how engaging his hooks are before the start of videos !
Another amazing video from the BEST aviation channel ever!! Thank you Petter 😊 ✈️🇿🇦
Hi Peter
Cameroonian fan here. There was actually a DC -6B that crashes into Mt Cameroon. I think you should check it out
I think it's important to note the other comments made by the crew in the report regarding the EGWPS training.
That while it was incredibly useful, it did not address a terrain warning while performing a turn
This channel is my new addiction. And I fly quite frequently too.
Thanks for being here!
Hi Petter, I caught your arrival and departure from Brussels last Tuesday. I was really happy to have seen you!! Hope you enjoyed the VOR approach to runway 07L. Will you fly again to Brussels any time soon?
Hi! We actually had some problems with that approach, I was teaching a brand new cadet at the time and that’s always challenging. 😂
Glad you caught me on camera, I would love to see it.
@@MentourPilot suuuuuuuuure ;)
cool
Major bucket list item checked for you, nice! I envy you
@@MentourPilot Yeah Mentour Pilot has a huge sausage that resides between his upper legs
As usual, Peter, a professional, well articulated accident study. I truly look forward to seeing each one of your uploads. You are a great teacher and as a student who is about to take his commercial check ride in two days I pick up a lot of good information that I plan to carry it into the future. Thank you for what you do.
Eight seconds to begin displaying after changing the selection or scale? That sounds extremely slow, especially for a relatively modern jumbo.
It’s the same on most aircraft. It updates in a sweeping pattern and the sweep restarts every time you change scale etc.
Jumbo = 747
@@valentinaou6579 They used to classify the Tristar and the DC-10 as jumbo jets back in the 70's.
@@valentinaou6579 can also mean a wide body.
You make these incidents so real. Thanks for sharing your expertise. Your videos are so incredibly compelling - they are a must watch for aviation enthusiasts!
I'm glad it worked out of course but it seems to me like they got very lucky to be a little north of the highest peak. Otherwise it could have been a disaster. nice to hear the pilots talking to each other with respect that doesn't always happen does it? 👍💯🇺🇸
I watched the blinkist promo on repeat. You nailed it - the build up was hilarious.
Quality content as always 🤝 I recently flew for holidays since the COVID business relaxed. And having binge watched most likely all of your videos I for the first time felt very easy being on the plane. Was not afraid of take off, the sinking feeling, turbulence or landing, there were even thunderstorms with lighting quite close during the landing in Turkey, and even then I felt confident and safe. In general it felt comfortable knowing how much work the industry puts into safety. So thank you 🤝👊👍
Amazing how training kicks in at some stage you have to face something you have given for granted not to be the case. As ever, great video Captain.
Hello that happened to me near Anniston Alabama USA, big thunder bumpers and a big mountain, after I landed and exit the airport I started to shake uncontrollably, the doctor said it was my adrenaline dissipating , something important I adding everything felt moving very slowly around me. Great Presentation thanks for the memories
So glad they survived that!!!! I would have been shaking as well, no one thinks that is bad after what he just had to do. Kudos to all the crew!
Newer Airbus models display the MORA on the ND and the vertical situation display on the A380/A350 also help see terrain ahead
Sadly these things only get added after incidents like this.
You are an amazing narrator and the details you provide are far superior to any other flight show.
Great video MP in sharing risk identification and that regardless of experience we are always at risk from those things we assume. I think another layer in the swiss cheese model could be the sim training the captain had received whereby he experienced a traffic collision after a GPWS pull up. This strikes me as negative training because it made them not to do the immediate action of climbing above the dominant MSA which would have kept them safe and allowed them to rebuild their SA. It also highlights the benefits of putting range rings around obstacles which remain regardless of which display each pilot is monitoring. Thank you for the video.
So nice to hear about an incident where nobody was injured, fatally or otherwise. The crew made a navigation error, but handled everything properly and professionally.
Great content.
I almost thought this was Air France 447 for a moment. Hopefully we see that episode one day!
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Your probably the only channel where i actually get excited when you upload!, and as always this video was amazingly made
Gold Standard Aviation Content 👊.
Thank you! 💕💕
This channel is by far the best on RUclips wrt to modern historic aviation events.
In this case, the terrain escape would have been a lot easier by stopping the right turn and even turning left, but I understand that it is important to have a simple escape procedure and not waste time finding the optimal response.
It's not just simplicity. If you have gotten into a situation where you have to do a terrain escape manouver then you are already terribly lost; your ideas about which direction to go can no longer be relied on, so the only way to go is up. You also sacrifice climb rate by turning.
@@IIIlIIIIlIIIII Exactly! Just like Peter (Mentor Pilot) explained some months ago.
These are absolutely THE BEST air incident videos online! Watched ep
Hi Mentour. Not sure if you'll see this message but i just want to express my gratitude to you for your videos. I have always been passionate in aviation but i feel that i have a love hate relationship with it.
I'm incredibly blessed to currently have a job in a major international airline (non flying role). Due to my partial colour blindness however, i was not able to pursue my dream to become a pilot. I was heartbroken... and everytime i see my friends becoming pilots or read/ watch any aviation contents online, a small part of me was always reminded that i could never achieve my childhood dream.
I was still interested in aviation matters but day by day i started to lose the passion and love for airplanes that i had when i was a kid.
But for the past few months i have been watching a ton of your videos -- the air accident series is my favorite tho :) . they're incredibly insightful and well made, and i can see your passion for aviation reflected in these videos. So many insights that i never really read or learn before. And your videos have really reignite my passion and remotivated me to learn more on the flying, safety, and technical aspects of aviation.
Thank you for this. 🙏
Thank you so much for your nice message. I’m sorry to hear about the color-blindness stopping you but you seem to be doing well.
Thanks again for supporting the channel and what I do, it’s really appreciated. 💕
🙏💛
I would not give up on your dream of becoming a pilot just yet. There are several companies working on eyeglasses with virtual reality and augmented reality features. I would think that these glasses could be programmed to show colors that you cannot differentiate into colors that you are able to differentiate, or that they could use some type of pattern to differentiate colors.
I haven't finished the video yet, but just wanted to say how much I have been looking forward to another video. Thank you Petter!
Great to hear all of the safety measures are worked as intended. But for me it was a very strange decision to let this crew proceed this day. After very stressful situation you can not usually concentrate well. I think for Air France - to give this crew a proper rest would not be an end of the world.
This was scary! One of the scariest moments on this channel! Heart stopping!
By the sounds of it, this crew tried very hard to prepare for as many of the unknowns as possible.
I have mentionned you on twitter about that incident, thanks for have made a video about it. The crew have made a mistake but their reaction was really professionnal
I feel like radar displays should have some kind of indicator when you change settings that what you’re seeing is old data until it completes a sweep.
I personally (as a tech who has repaired a few dozen airborne weather radars in a former life) like the classic display. In olden days the returns were painted as they were received, producing a windshield wiper effect. The returns persisted but faded as the high-persistence phosphor returned to normal. If it were all flashed on the screen at once the data on the left side of the update line would be a full pass old, and in the middle would be half a pass old. When you see the screen in action it makes sense.
having head about my country on your channel made me so proud
This was an interesting one. There are several cheese holes as usual, in particular the dark and the weather, and that inset on the chart is one of the most misleading I have ever seen. Good on the flight crew for getting out of it and keeping a positive attitude. Thanks for the video, the obscure incidents are nice to learn from!