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Just my observation of all these flight dramas is...pilots should first learn to fly gliders (not rely on engines ) that way they will actually FLY .Then introduce engines.They seem to lose all perspective when they have no engine power !
15,494.5 hours of flying time is irrelevant information. Please keep it up to 2-3 "significant figures" for flying times. And pretty much most data (maximum 3 significant figures is acceptable as all extra is memory clutter inside our brains) like weight, fuel on board etc (you can also add "about" to specify rounding). Therefore 15.500 hrs of flying time and 7700 hrs of flying time. DO NOT be more precise. Thank you :)
This is one of the most insane stories I've seen you present yet. The fact that they recovered and landed in mostly one piece after falling 30,000 feet is UNBELIEVABLE.
You're right..I mean..look at the condition of that plane..looks like God was holding onto that plane while it went thru hell....I guess they all survived cause the Sun was still up.
WoW this is the classic swiss cheese model, I work in aircrew training and the hardest thing to teach is trust your instruments, the second hardest to to get the first officer to speak up when things go wrong.
Anyone who flies and is frightened of turbulence and wondering "at what stage the wings are going to fall off" needs to watch this, A quite incredible account of just how much punishment an airframe can take, yet still land safely. What the crew did or didn't do in a timely manor to avoid this situation altogether has to be excused by the fact they got the aircraft safely on the ground with everybody living to tell the tale. Another great video Captain Petter, thanks for all your efforts in keeping these truly excellent studies coming.
"has to be excused" - The end never justifies the means and does not and should not absolve the flight crew of remediation to train and fix their errors. Had the flight crew understood bleed load hogging and closed the pressure valves to slowly bring engine number 4 back up to speed at a proper altitude, then they would have increased their chances to gracefully recovered from the pending disaster without risking all the passengers' lives. The only commendation here goes to the engineering of the aircraft for holding together through over 5g accelerations. Future passengers now get to unknowingly endure the horrific possibility of repeating these events with the same as-yet-untrained flight crew as they continue to fly with no remediation and therefore no belief they themselves could have done anything differently.
@@thom1218 'not believing their instruments' -SO many times (other crashes) it is really time simulators showed one on-screen 'out of the window' image and give a different picture as displayed on the instruments - and see which the pilots believe - if they follow the 'on-screen' image they crash and if they believe their instruments and fly by them, they don't crash.
"And perhaps there was one other hero that day. The Boeing 747 itself. It was put through manoeuvres and stresses that far outweighed it's known limits and yet, despite it all, the aircraft survived and landed safely." -ACI, Panic over the Pacific
@@jorge_781 In the ACI episode, one commentator said that even tho the pilots caused the incident themselves, they also performed a great recovery and after the plunge they handled the damaged plane carefully and made a safe landing. "The one big thing they did right, and one only ever has to do one big thing, is: They saved the airplane. And in principle, that's all you ever need to do right when something happens to your airplane. You need to save the airplane and you need to save the passengers. And that is what they did."
@@Aranimda If someone put the airplane in that condition you're already not a hero by definition. 1) not trusting in your instruments when you're the middle of a cloud formation - disregarding the best information 2) incorrect procedure to re-fire the #4 engine 3) not use rudder to correct the heading 4) negligence on recovering airplane attitude when they're had all information and resources to do that 5) bad cabin management and wrong procedures after engine fail and the list just goes on. Just imagine a person who throws a baby by the window and runs to save her/him being very kick going down the stairs, and get the child. Hero?
5g's in a 747. All these years and I thought my experiences in Microsoft Flight Simulator as a child using the biggest plane as a stunt plane were baseless. Still terrifying for everyone on board.
For another real-world example of using big planes like stunt planes, look up Tex Johnson; he barrel-rolled a 707 in front of spectators... twice (the second time was to make sure they really believed what they saw). For a flight sim thing, I've seen plenty of people use the ol' 'stall 'n' drop' technique to land 747s on aircraft carriers or remote, tiny runways around the world. It's pretty challenging, so give it a go if you're confident.
I had an old Commodore 64 flight simulator (Acrojet maybe?) where I'd fly up as high as I could at 110% power until the engine died. Then I'd glide down to the runway for the next five minutes.
Those G forces haf to feel like someone was a literally pushing you into your seat and forcing you there Whatever you experience on a roller coaster this had to of been 20 times more firm
Ah, FSX. The good old days for me. I played that game enough I'd wager I could take control of a small aircraft in an emergency. I want to get a proper sim set up and play the new one but that's a lot of money currently best spent on other things. Same with actually becoming a general aviation pilot, I'd love to do it but it's very expensive.
Retired B747 classic captain here. Your analysis was pretty awesome. I was impressed by your knowledge of the 747 systems and the use of cockpit video simulations. Kudos.
@@1ibnebatuta Because of the worldwide pilot shortage, now is an excellent time to become a pilot. Many of the airlines have started their own pilot training program. I’d check those out. The other option is to buy a small Cessna 150 or something similar and hire an instructor to teach you and build your hours that way. Even if you have to borrow the money, you can frequently sell the airplane after your done for more than you paid for it. If you buy wisely that is. If you decide to go this route, hire a A&P mechanic to do a pre buy inspection. It’ll pay dividends if you do.
@@mdbryan9525 a huge thanks sir for even considering my comment. Another barrier in my mind is my age. I'm already 38 years old. Can I still persue my dreams.
@@1ibnebatuta No problem. Your age is a plus, not a negative. The airline is going to see you as being more mature. Able to act with less drama in case of an emergency. Anybody can fly a plane when everything is going right. It takes a professional to handle an airplane when everything is going wrong.
Imagining the cold chill felt by the flight crew when they finally connected the fact that the false horizon and the real horizon were in sync with each other.
You’d think they could feel they were upside down. I know pilots are suppose to rely on instruments not feelings but I know damn well you can feel when your body goes upside down.
@@Cjmm007 You wont feel you are upside down when you are moving fast and rolling at the same time. there are multi directional inputs going to your brain making you lose complete spatial awareness. hard to re-create on the ground,
@@Cjmm007 Even with an old flight sim like falcon 4.0, it's easy to experience yourself how easy it is to get lost. For example, flying at night really feels like you don't move at all. Like sitting in a complete void. Now imagine that with an AR headset.
This aircraft is now stored at the Tijuana International airport and has been for years. It sticks out like a sore thumb near the end of the runway. Great video!
It's a shame that it's just there collecting dust. That thing should be repainted back to its period-correct China Airlines livery and put on display at an aviation museum as a testament to the 747's resilience.
It's crazy they would start to question the instruments so quickly. They were lucky when they got below the clouds with ample altitude to recover. A lot of times this type of dive coupled with low clouds is certain death.
Pulling out of a dive at 9,000 feet means they were seconds away from cratering. Whenever I'm doing stupid stuff in Flight Sim I never attempt dramatic maneuvers below 10,000 feet, it almost always ends hitting the ground.
I never cease to be amazed at how seasoned professionals can make sustained rookie mistakes. I'm not immune to this, but when I make a mistake, I just lose a few hours of work, nobody is gonna die if I make a mistake, even a relatively bad one.
The thing that always boggles me is people in high-risk environments being willing to tolerate even further risks. To err is human, but taking chances with something as potentially dangerous as flying implies a profound lack of risk-assessment i feel. It's one thing to try to cut in line in a traffic jam, but when you're in an airplane taking risks can lead to you and everyone else PLUMMETING TO YOUR DEATH (as we just saw), which one would think is a pretty good motivation to not take any risks.
Its so good to hear of an emergency that actually ended in everyone surviving. This actually makes me, with an extreme fear of flying, feel better about flying because it shows not all emergencies end in disaster.. well except for the guy with a broken foot
This should never have been an emergency though. It was a simple engine failure that any pilot should know exactly how to deal with but apparently these pilots didn't.
@@David-ud9ju right, but even in the case of pilots dealing with the situation this poorly, it still managed to be recovered without loss of human life. Just loss of some underwear, I'm sure, and consequences for the pilots, I'm sure. At the very least severe retraining *AND* a look at the airline's training programs and crew culture that could allow for such complacency and confirmation bias. It's a difficult scenario for me to judge, as I'm not a pilot, just an armchair enthusiast who watches too many videos like this lol, and because although the pilots were the main cause of the issue, they also did end up getting it on the ground safely once they removed their heads from their asses! (Should've added a "remove before flight" tag there too!!!)🤣
Honestly, this is one of the stories less well suited to build trust in the aviation system, as the pilot(s) mishandled it quite a bit. Cant say i blame them, but still. He has a few stories like that, which is a bit disheartening. Like the one with the pilot that felt superior due to his experience and started lecturing and looking down on his second pilot, which ended in a huge tragedy. Or the one with the airport that had horrible safety standards and a lot of broken stuff, where you just end up asking yourself how that's even possible. But those are the exceptions, not the norm. There is also a planeload of videos that really make you look up and respect those pilots for their decisionmaking and how they handle stress. Like the Hudson Miracle, or his currently newest video about a beoing nearly crashing into a mountain, which i really enjoyed. Or the one where a passender had to land a plane, where you really felt all the experts coming together to help. Amazing stories.. even more so because they are real.
And not understand why a #4 engine-out could present some aerodynamic issues. Why they didn't slightly back off thrust on #1 and #2 and start descending is just basic.
Experience as glorified bus drivers. Und unlike bus drivers they don't even have to handle the controls. I'd trust an experienced truck driver more than one of these bozos
Astonishing! Everyone on that flight is lucky to be alive. It shows how a small problem can mushroom into a huge problem when there is a loss of situational awareness.
Hey Frank, I'm not sure what I'm seeing here. I think we've got a simultaneous failure in 3 redundant flight instruments. Sounds about right to me, Captain! Also, sir, I'd just like to take the opportunity to say how much I admire your new seating position on the ceiling! Very avant guarde!
Captain, another amazing thing is how your coffee cup is sitting upside down on the ceiling and not spilling, so not only are all our instruments faulty, but gravity itself seems broken now. Do they have anything about that in the manuals?
absolutely insane that after pushing the aircraft far past any safe limits they still wanted to fly to their intended destination instead of landing down safely as fast as they could
It demonstrates a real lack of knowledge of aeronautical engineering. They wouldn’t need to know exactly how many g’s they were pulling to know they stressed the shit out of the airframe.
Kind of blown away by how they didn't trust _three_ separate horizons all in agreement.... Even if the agreed situation was horrible..... Human beings are curious things. Thank goodness for a safe if really scary outcome. (How did they even have pitch control with the tailplane in that condition???) Great video Sir, keep them coming!
When your senses tell you that down isn't where down really is and all you see around you is the cockpit, that is a powerful impression and that is what you trust instinctively.
They probably didn't look at them actively with the intent of comparing instruments to antcipated situation. The pilot probably jus glanced at one of them, stating his initial reaction - Presumably the flight engineer should have checked them acively when the pilot made the satement.
Tunnel vision and panic response developed quickly. Assisting crew - sometimes better positioned to see the big picture - disabled by g forces. But armchair evaluations are easy. Flight in turbulence at altitudes near the flight altitude limits demands constant awareness....crew do not have a pause button. Remarkable that the aircraft held together.
One of the fundamental problems though is that we, as humans, only understand facts when they are situated in narratives. If you don't understand how the instruments are showing something so heavily messed up, it will be very, very hard to understand them. Confirmation and continuation bias both come from this. I totally understand how this works. I am not in aviation but I have worked on large, complex IT systems and I have been bit by similar cognitive biases. What I am wondering is how the captain (pilot flying here I think) failed to notice the roll until the upset was so heavily developed. I would have expected an instrument scan to notice the roll before that point.
I had expected this to end with everyone onboard lost, so it was a nice surprise that everyone got out (mostly) okay. Still, considering how bad the damages were to the aircraft especially to the control surfaces, it's a miracle they could land safely.
@@MichaelStawowy Indeed, AF447 is an example of the problem, when things go wrong a % of pilots are not well prepared / not able to diagnose correctly and losing "situation awareness" can lead to a crash.
I’m an ATP and an FAA gold seal flight instructor certificate. Also hold every fixed wing certificate out there over the past 35 years. I’m medically retired now but need an aviation fix often and these videos really go along way toward keeping me in touch with the knowledge I can no longer use but still enjoy thinking about. I, like so many others, believe pilots should go through aerobatic training and when an airline pilot should have extensive training in simulation recovering from severe unusual attitudes. I had some great sim instructors who loved to place me in unusual attitudes to recover from. One instructor would place us in a night IMC scenario with a mix of malfunctioning instruments or engine loss. Once successful and time permitting, we be given nothing but our emergency instruments. One thing I noticed, while instructing, a lot of pilots panic more when they loose automation than when they loose an engine. Hand flying in a high mental load environment often results in an incomplete sim session or an outright failure. I realize these scenarios are extremely rare in real life but they do occur therefore we need to train for them.
Your comment reminds me of a comment I read under another video. The person mentioned the book "Children of the Magenta Line" which the author, who's a retired pilot, wrote about how automation changed piloting skills.
"Trust you instruments" This was pounded into my head during flight training. They can fail but if the redundant systems agree, they are probably correct. Amazing amount of damage to that aircraft! They were fortunate it wasn't worse.
I think It had something to do with their visibility. Because they had no visual reference they didn't think the aircraft was actually doing what the artificial horizon said it was doing. It seemed the captain wasn't aware of the gradual banking either so from his perspective the artificial horizon just went crazy.
@@thaneoffife6904 That and our inner ear can only sense acceleration, not which way is actually up. It's possible to think you're flying level but you're actually upside down, pulling back on the stick, and gradually going vertical crashing into the ground.
They were very lucky to survive. One that wasn't - check out Atlas Air 3591. Perfectly functional 767 that the co-pilot kamikaze'd into the ground under the impression they were stalling.
fantastic level of detail here. An episode of "Mayday" covered this incident, but you went into much finer details and explained things that were not covered. Great stuff
I live in Tijuana, Mexico and since little I remember a parked 747 in our locale airport and until now I decided to look into the history of the aircraft. Crazy to think that the 747 involved in this specific incident has been sitting in my city for 15+ years, it feels so weird to know everytime I watch this video I can just drive a few miles and appreciate the actual 747 in all it's glory. Loved the video btw, great job as always c:
I wish Mexico was a native american country. It should have been. It sucks that europeans ended up becoming a majority there despite the civilizations of americans there. I wonder how much tourism they would be getting if instead of maya ruins there would be maya cities
"We can control the aircraft" just killed me. I wonder if air traffic controler [who probably had not been apprised of prior situation] wanted to ask the obvious question - "was there a point where you couldn't control the aircraft?"
Still a right thing to inform. The controller is aware something is very wrong if you do not respond to multiple calls, during wich your aircraft is teleporting 20 thousand feet down.
I know, right? It's like a kid saying, 'hey, mom, don't worry about your garden, because it looks okay now'. Like, gee, sounds suuuuuuper trustworthy right??? (ahem SARCASM)
_They were executing fighter jet moves with that plane, giving the passengers the ride of a life time..._ 😱 Kudos & respect to the manufacturer; Boeing.
you have an incredible ability to explain complex information simply and clearly without ego. your productions are engaging without dramatics or blame. I'm glad for the work you do.
I cannot imagine the level of absolute terror that all those passengers had to endure. 5 g’s is enough to make a grown man cry and I’m sure some people lost consciousness for a brief moment only to wake up to more terror.
I was on a ATA (American Trans Air no longer in business) L1011 coming home to Indy from Vegas back in the 90's that made a 1000 foot drop in a split second. We actually went over a patch of turbulence so strong and the captain later told us over the intercom that there was a downdraft that robbed all of the lift from the wings. When we finally stopped dropping and the lift caught back up, the amount of G force we felt was incredible. Just before it happened the attendants were going up the aisle with the little drink cart and they suspended drink service. If they had not, that cart would have been airborne for sure. I know if I didn't have my seatbelt on I would have smashed the overhead. We were flying over the Rocky Mountains in the late summer/early fall. To fall 30,000 feet in 2.5 minutes would have been so much worse. We diverted to Omaha immediately and spent 6 hours there while they checked over the plane. 7 hours later we were airborne again. Scariest flying incident of my life to date.
Terrifying! You are very smart and that's precisely why there's NO excuse not to keep your seat belt fastened at all times when you're seated. The attendants don't have the luxury in a split second drop.
The fact that the passenger & cabin crew were so little injured is just absolutely frickin' incredible to me, given they were experiencing forces stronger than those you'd get if strapped to the nose of a Saturn moon rocket!! 😳 Must have been psychologically terrifying though...
Man, that pullout must have been insane! To put that in perspective, most roller coasters are designed to have no more than about 4 seconds of 4g. The closest comparison I can find would be a now defunct Japanese coaster, that had a maximum g force of about 6.5, and sustained around 5g for about 2 seconds. People have said that they felt like they couldn’t breathe. I have actually been on a coaster that pulled 4g for around 5 seconds, and it was intense as hell!
Crazy to think that they could only straighten out when they came out the clouds ☁️ and saw the horizon,what if it was misty or nighttime,surely your gyroscope can’t be faulty
If you mean the artificial horizon, attitude indicators can definitely fail, and the most likely reason is from a loss of power scenario. Which they thought they were experiencing. They can also fail as a result of rapid changes in speed or direction, which they definitely did experience.
They can fail, but there's several and they'd fail independently. The chances of all 3 failing at the same time is extremely low. What's more, is there are vertical speed indicators and altimeters that would've shown that the plane was actually diving also. In essence, there should always be enough info to know if you're flying level in terms of altitude. Bank not so much, but it's still extremely unlikely you'd lose all instruments indicating bank angle.
Why a gimballed ship's compass isn't fitted to all airline dashboards I'll never understand! Seems too much emphasis on automation and too little on remaining "situationally aware" (knowing up from down for instance!).
@@B_-.- Keep in mind reliability, and awareness of systems from pilots, was a lot lower in 1985. I can understand where these pilots were coming from. And they took the right procedures to attempt to correct the false "issue." Aside from attempting to re-light the engine too soon. I feel like people are coming down way too hard on these pilots. Especially compared to the reaction I saw for Air France 447, a modern crew on a modern plane, yet somehow everyone acts with sympathy towards the "confusion" of the pilot who was doing nose hard-up in a stalling aircraft. 🤦 After being told to go nose down by his co-pilot _and_ captain.
@@seventh-hydra I didn't say a word about the pilots. I just explained that a failure of every instrument indicating that the plane is climbing/descending is extremely unlikely, even in 1985. "Pilot error" is an overused phrase that pushes blame onto pilots when in actuality, the people who are responsible for them - airlines - should be held responsible. There are some causes where a pilot does something totally stupid, but 90% of the time, you can root the issue back to lackluster training, lackluster experience, or a trail of small issues that no one put together previously.
They were so close to completely tearing apart! Seeing the horizontal stabilizer ripped apart, I would have passed out! Their Guardian Angeles and Boeing engineers were definitely with them! Phew!
It usually takes a series of small events to cause a really big one. The fact they had all that minor to medium damage that DIDN'T lead to a major event is pretty amazing.
Thank the engineers and the workmen who build these aircraft. They are some of the best examples of great engineering and craftsmanship. Lots of hardwork go into building these beautiful machines
This is a testament to the 747's resiliency and only one reason why it is still up in the sky after over 5 decades! Man I love this marvel of engineering.
It's a miracle this plane landed safely. My gosh. I would've been scared to death had I been on that flight. Boeing makes really good planes. I wonder if the 747-400 could handle that level of G's. The saving grace may have been that the 747-SP has a shorter body and the aerodynamic and physical stresses were closer to the plane's center of mass. Thanks for posting this video!
I think what you meant to say was the stresses were less because the forces were closer to the body of the airplane which meant the moment arm was shorter and thus stresses were less
747, I always felt perfectly safe in it on trips to Europe from LAX. FANTASTIC AIRLINER. And obviously very forgiving of bad pilots. And what a beautiful looking aircraft.
I can’t believe the final report had no recommendations! That’s like saying “yeah we know this incident happened but we don’t know how make improvements to make sure it doesn’t happen again”. Kinda scary really. Aren’t these incidents supposed to improve safety…
Yes, and sometimes the report in itself is the safety improvement. We can always recommend better training but these pilots had gone through the required training of inflight engine failure so it seems to have been a genuine mistake.
The NTSB really missed an opportunity to recommend measures to mitigate fatigue and monotony in the cockpit, because it was brought up in the report. Even jet lag was mentioned, as the captain went through so many time zones in the past week. Jeddah to Taipei, then a couple of round trips from Taipei to Japan, and then Taipei to LA all in the last week. The NTSB could've recommended limits on how much load a pilot takes on on a weekly basis, or how to make the autopilot more pilot-friendly, and not merely mask problems, or how to make sleeping in planes more achievable for the pilots.
@@Argumemnon Some do. Often, it can even extend past the type of vehicle an accident occurred in. Or even develop into general anxiety disorders, where their whole sense of risk assessment changes. It can take years of effort and therapy to readjust after such an experience. If they ever manage to readjust at all.
Just a small thing for you to correct.. the description says Air China flight 006. Air China is the flag carrier of PRC (mainland) but this flight is China Airlines, flag carrier of ROC (Taiwan).
I think I've watched this incident on the Air Crash Investigation documentary, and I think it's interesting to see a different perspective on the discussion this. Specifically the events from the engine failure to pretty much loss of control, and then recovery after.
@@toomanyhobbies2011 Air Crash Investigation was run on the Discovery Channel in Canada so while it isn't exactly Hollywood, I think that their episodes are a bit sensationalized and incorrect at times. Like showing an 8-abreast economy cabin while showing an accident involving a 747 at one time, for instance.
At Hamilton Standard we designed and built the engine fuel control, as well as the stator vane control scheduler for that P&W engine. One of the tasks of the fuel control is to limit both the acceleration of the engine to prevent the turbine temperature to exceed a certain limit and the deceleration is also limited to prevent flame out.These functions override the power lever function as does the altitude compensation. In those days the TIT (turbine inlet temperature) could not reliably be measured. This temperature was computed by measuring the much lower compressor exit temperature and then a temperature increment was computed by the fuel controller based on the compressor pressure , to determine density, rpm to to determine airflow , and the fuel flow limit was computed based on the allowable increment to reach the TIT allowable. At high altitudes the density is low, nearly a fourth at 42000 feet, making the temperature very sensitive to fuel flow. Bleeding compressor air on that engine will reduce the compressor exit pressure significantly and limit the fuel flow more than on the other engines, resulting on exactly what was observed: a noticeably slower engine acceleration, to protect the turbine from overheating In other words: the engine (and fuel controller) were working as designed at that altitude.
I would fly with this dude as my pilot anywhere. All the knowledge and awareness he gets from making all these videos must be insanely helpful. Great job all around. Happy flying.
A bit unbelievable that after what happens during this flight, the captain decides not to fly to the closest airport. Knowing that this aircraft was exposed to extremely forces and you never know what damages could has been done at the aircraft. One of the recommendation should also be: required to land at the nearest airport. regardless of what happened or the captain his feelings.
@@snowpawzvideos They lost 30,000 feet altitude in less then 150 seconds. That sink rate is waaaaaaaay beyond anything normal. Even in an emergency dive after loss of cabin pressure the sink rate is around 6000-7000 feet/minute ... they got to 12,000 ft/min. In one moment they knew they were at 41,000 ft, and then suddenly below the cloud level! And that is even AFTER the captain pulled the yolk so hard that they almost stalled! G forces aside - if they think they cant trust their instruments, they should land!
Not a pilot, but I totally agree, especially as there is no way to view the outside of the plane to know if any damage or what kind. Common sense = land ASAP.
Watched this before on mayday episodes, but to watch it here and to learn after everything the captain still opted to fly around for fun with a wounded bird is nothing short of absurd
man, based on how thorough all these investigations are, I can't believe there were no recommendations. Like... it seems totally obvious that an engine out checklist and training on a multi-engine aircraft should have "apply rudder to counter assymetric thrust" as the very first order of operations (aviate, navigate communicate and all). You lose an engine, assymetric thrust is 100% guaranteed, so that just seems like it should be in muscle memory. lost engine? lemme give a little rudder. crisis averted
How the hell did they not recommend some kind of increased "trust your fucking instruments" training either?? These were *experienced* pilots, and by the way they were flying, if it was dark or foggy below 11k they would've just assumed the altimeter was wrong and flown it straight into the ocean.
A warning signal for the autopilot when it keeps a long, persistent bank angle might also be in order. Without rudder authority, the AP is only capable of going straight. It shouldn't be banking the aircraft for very long.
@@TotalRookie_LV video time is 24.59 min, right? So I said 25 minutes. Means interesting and analystical videos wouldn't let you feel that how quick time will pass on. What's your query then.
What separates you from other flight channels is that you explain a bit by bit what is happening, and it really helps those who have no idea about planes and aviation. Keep being awesome ❤️
@@homefront3162 An happy ending would require the captain and second pilot be relieved of any further command and the promotion of staff confined to people capable of understanding how aircraft work.
I was working at SFO when this happened. I was working for WestAir commuter airline, ( Now I believe it's part of United Express ) and saw this aircraft. One of our DH-6 pilots landed after this aircraft and even though he was a few miles behind the damaged 747 his windshield was getting hydraulic fluid on it and needed to be cleaned off. We were told by United mechanics, Boeing removed the wings and replaced the spars and attached new wings. United has a huge maintenance base at SFO and the plane flew out after the repairs. it was on the TV news that night also.
I love how the pilot was like "we're in a sudden pitch maneuver. Our 3 redundant instruments are unreliable because it all says we're pitching down, which can't be true, despite having inputed commands to descend to a lower altitude before. Most importantly why does the speed keep increasing when I'm doing nothing?"
I’m sitting here gobsmacked that they came out of that so unscathed. I can’t help thinking of JAL 123. For some reason that battle the captain so valiantly fought has stuck in my head. Pulling those g’s… staying with it and fighting, just amazing.
The Air crash investigation episode on this is my favourite of all time. The visualisation of this was incredible, and the way the captain snapped his plane back level after glimpsing the horizon was absolutely nothing short of spectacular. The fact the crew caused the disaster is irrelevant compared to the way the captain leveled and landed what was left of his plane.
Agreed. They lost situational awareness and that is not good, but at the end of the day they managed to save the plane and safely deliver their passengers to the airport. People make mistakes and the hope is that they were able to learn from this incident and become better pilots as a result.
This aircraft was parked at SFO, visible on my many flights through there to/from Tokyo every few weeks or so for what seems like from my memory at least about a year after the incident. It was creepy, seeing that damaged tail in plain sight, parked on the tarmac off to the side as we were taxiing to and from the runway.
Stuff like this is why the saying USED to be, "if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going." Absolutely amazing engineering (and probably no small amount of luck) that allowed a jumbo jet to survive conditions that would have doomed most any other aircraft available, anywhere.
Hi fellow aviator here, just wanted to differentiate China airlines and Air China are two separate airlines. One belongs to China 🇨🇳 and the other to Taiwan 🇹🇼.
OMG 😳 how did that thing even fly or land with all the g-force damage?!!??? Well, that just goes to show you why the 747 IS the Queen 👑 of the skies. Always was always will be🙋🏽♀️💕
*This demonstrates why the '747' was 'Queen of the Skies' for forty years* *For the airframe to withstand such tremendous G-forces is incredible* *That the wings withstood that that much flexion and torque is also incredible* ( *There must've been 20-degrees of arc involved!* )
What I really love about this channel is that it focuses on aviation disasters from around the world, a lot of them I have never heard of because I live in the United States. I find this RUclips channel very fascinating despite not being in aviation myself. Love how in depth these are.
I appreciate how you make this very detailed but easy to understand for us casuals. This is complicated stuff and lots to know and you are great at breaking things down
These incident analyses are brilliant. It’s like seeing an analysis of cardiac stent insertion by an actual cardiovascular surgeon versus a bunch of actors, dramatic music, and added drama. I mean, the incident itself was dramatic enough. Thank you for these videos. They’re highly instructive, and may prevent another such event from happening in the future.
This incident fascinates me so much, because it's the union of two things that rarely happens. Firstly, the pilots make big mistakes in dealing with their situation. Secondly, those mistakes resulted in the plane falling from the sky. Those two things would usually result in an in-flight breakup, or just a crash that would kill everyone on board, and the pilots would be seen as incompetent. However, that didn't happen. What happened instead was that the plane somehow stayed together, the plane was very high at the start, so they had more time to fall and figure out what to do, and they saved the airplane and managed to land it safely despite problems with the elevators (well, the problem with having almost no elevators left on the plane lol). It's the union of the pilots screwing up so bad AND the pilots getting themselves out of a situation that you would forgive a pilot if they couldn't recover from it. Usually it's one, the other, or neither, but almost never both. It's the union of the best and worst of what a pilot can do. Something not mentioned in the report nor the video was that the captain crossed so many timezones in the past few days, which may have affected his judgement via jet lag. He also didn't get good sleep during his rest period (rested for 5 hours and slept for 2 hours) to the point where he was in the cockpit at times during the rest period, which may have also caused problems with performance.
Design flaw also. That first procedure with the bleeder switch should have required a checklist. These things only require checklist because Boeing doesn't know how computers work. So that's a design flaw, sort of an ongoing one. SpaceX can land a rocket booster on a boat with nothing but GPS coordinates and a few consumer computers.
3 года назад+11
@@jtjames79 this was in 1985, computers were not what they are today back then.
@ The 5160 came out in 1983, and Boeing is still not up to that level. The only reason there isn't autonomous fixed wing auto pilot is because nobody has paid for it. For multirotor I can solve the problem with the computer the size of a quarter. Not because it's easier but because the early adopter tax was paid a long time ago. Yes it requires a certain level of hacking skills, but that's almost entirely because there are no standards forthcoming from the FAA to automate against. Something that should have started in the early '80s. So like 40 years of "not invented here". Literally no one from Boeing ever thought to ask John Carmack to help.
I've intentionally pulled a little over 3G in a DHC-1, which is built to handle it. You really feel that crushing you down into the seat. It's incredible that they pulled 5G in a 747, and that he kept pulling as the force became overwhelming.
My wife was on that flight ... it was a close call . She was not injured, but greatful to be alive. She was interviewed by a TV station crew. And took a Bus ride to LA . Thank God for the blessings and saving all those lives. .
I remember this vividly. I had moved to Taiwan from California and this is the exact flight I’d take when going back to LA. I was in Manila when this happened, it scared me so much, luckily we were taking Cathay Pacific back to Taipei. I never liked flying and this incident didn’t help much. The next time I took China Airlines back to Los Angeles, we were the last flight allowed off the island during the beginning of a typhoon. The plane felt like it dropped after takeoff, and this incident went through my mind. I miss Taiwan but don’t miss the flying.
I flew China Airlines with my parents (can't remember where) about a month after their string of crashes/near-crashes as the flights were ridiculously cheap. When we landed safely, the entire passenger cabin stood up clapping in unison.
I remember the Mayday/Air Crash Investigation episode of this flight. One passenger interviewed said "we landed safely, thats all that mattered. They got us into it, but they got us out of it."
Once again, pilots trusting themselves over their instruments leading to an incident. Fortunately this time it wasn't catastrophic, but sure came close.
In fairness, it's not always black and white like that. There are several major crashes where the pilots were so dependent upon their instruments that they crashed their planes because they couldn't figure out that their instruments were giving them incorrect readings. Still, in this case, it is baffling that the captain and first officer would immediately assume their instruments are faulty without any evidence at all that this is the case, even when they know they have an engine failure.
@@thewhitefalcon8539 Those incidents are so rare compared to how many times pilots stop paying attention to their horizons and either dive the aircraft into the ground or keep pulling the nose up/banking until it stalls. What you're saying is tantamount to the "there have been people that got trapped by their seatbelts!" Sure that has happened, but that's like 1 incident per million incidents where the seatbelt was far and beyond the better choice. So sure all 3 artificial horizons *possibly* could've simultaneously failed. It's possible, but not probable, just like I could *possibly* get hit by a shark driving a bus.
Started watching about this flight on that Mayday channel but quickly searched your site. Much better to learn from. As an engineer I enjoy your specifics and no-fluff approach....no drama, just the facts.
That is some insane amount of abuse the airplane took, and still managed to come back home intact. Truly a testament to how well overengineered these things are. Thank you for sharing this story, I'm always looking forward to your next one!
Its is fascinating to see this story, I live in Tijuana and since I remember there was a 747SP parked at the airport. I've always wondered what story that aircraft had to tell, what happened to it and stuff. Turns out, the 747SP parked at Tijuana International Airport (Aeropuerto Internacional Abelardo L. Rodriguez) is the 747SP in this accident, known as the Dive Queen according to the internet, it amazed me when I discovered this. Sadly, the aircraft now is abandoned and the GAP (Grupo Aeropuertuario del Pacifico) seeks a way to make it go away and there has been talks about scrapping the aircraft, although nothing has really come from it but is something that might happen soon. Its so sad seeing the Dive Queen go like this. The registration for the aircraft is N4522V
The fact that this aircraft was still intact (minus the stabilizers) and the passengers lived to go to the hospital or board another plane is astounding to me. I'm both freaking out and laughing hard at this whole situation. Amazing flying by the crew and amazing craftmanship of the plane. Also can't imagine the G forces.
Man oh man. It's mind boggling how several pilotes in the case of a challenging situation not only can't keep their eyes on the "ball" but make several key mistakes and fail to realize what they are doing wrong for such a long time! Unbelievable.
Absolutely amazing. I've got nearly 5,000 hours on 747's (mostly with Air Atlanta Icelandic on the Classics) and they impressed me as to how well-built they were. A very good solid machine.
Talking about the limits of the airplane, I'm reminded of American Airlines Flight 587 where the first officer used such aggressive rudder control, the vertical stabilizer tore completely off. Apparently AA was partly to blame due to how they, at the time, taught to use the rudder for wake turbulence recovery.
AA = _Alcoholics anonymous...?_ 🍷 🍾 🤪 (My first thought reading your comment, since I don't know anything about aviation at all. I realized my crazy mistake a few seconds later..)
I'm a row 17 seat C type person who most likely will never be a left or right seat flyer.Thank you for your educational feature / benefit way of explaining these cockpit air emergencies. That's why this only plastic wings pilot enjoys your channel so much.
I remember this one. What I remember from it, the plane went supersonic in the dive and the shock waves are what ripped the tail apart. The wing was bent but still within limits. I thought the pilot lowered the gear as a speed brake, but that does not seem to be the case. The plane was sold to a church group and flew on for many years. It was recently put up for sale or was repoed or something.
Global Peace Initiative, linked to the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation. Religious? Yes. Church group? Not quite. Swami Brahmananda Saraswati (aka Guru Dev) was the Shankaryacharya of the Jyotir Math monastery in Uttrakhand, a state nobody has heard of, that is located right between Uttar Pradesh and Tibet. Guru Dev's most famous disciple in the west was TM founder Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
Over 50 years ago while certifying in the altitude chamber, I learned to ALWAYS trust your instruments. Thank goodness this aircraft wasn't flying at night!
When I moved to Taiwan in 2000 we regarded China Airlines s one of the most dangerous in the world. It's way better now but there were so many accidents with them it was ridiculous. They started hiring foreign pilots in the mid 2000's and finally turned it around
In the 90s we referred to China Airlines as 'Always Crashes'. I worked in Japan and the Japanese would generally refuse to fly them at all. They were notorious for poor maintenance, especially domestically. Like Aeroflot on steroids.
@@littleblackpistol I had an uncle who used to work for aeroflot, the old and the new one that is and I can say those are the truest words ever. Had me giggling into my potato soup.
@@torgejh9189 I know a musician who used to regularly fly to and within Russia for gigs. He and the band started to demand non-Aeroflot flights after one too many hair-raising domestic flights, the worst of which included the outer door being taped shut in front of seated passengers' eyes. He also knew someone who worked at Shannon airport in Ireland and talked about an African airline whose plane was grounded there after they realised the cargo hold was held together inside using old car licence plates ...
Really scary that such a experienced captian was not able to realise the basic physical, thermodynamical reaction in conclusion to the failing 4th engine. But i am proud that the flight engineers build such a big aircraft which is able to sustain not falling apart even with such big g Powers forcing the wings.
Planes are capable of surviving horrific conditions and landing safely. That is so reassuring. I don't have any fear of flying, but I've seen the reaction of passengers when flying through extreme weather or turbulence. I like turbulence on long haul flights as I feel like we are making progress.
AS engineer here, these days we try to build thing a bit more closer to the edge, meaning it won't be over designed like it used to. But for structural components they are designed to take 2.5 G sustained (something almost never really happen in-flight in turbulences), on top of that safety factor is usually 1.5. that means the plane can take at least 3.75 G load. This must be destructively tested on wings already went though cycle testing, mean a pair of wing will be loaded and unloaded many times, like bending a paper clip. After it passed the cycle testing, it will be loaded to that 3.75 load. If it didn't fail, more load will be put on there untill it breaks. The test is usually done with everyone present (quite impressive to see), including FAA because the 2.5G requirement is written in airworthiness detective, no test, no certificate.
I have a fear of flying, not because I'm afraid that the aircraft will fail, but because the pilots will fail lol! I just have a few drinks beforehand and try to sleep the whole way through.
@@RemixedVoice Same here 😅 I trust the machine more than the human factor. No offence to the pilots out there, but I prefer split second decisions being taken by preprogrammed machines where hundreds of brains designed, implemented and tested a gazillion of scenarios over months or years. For a couple of years I’ve worked on the embedded software for the aircraft’s engine controller and I felt very safe flying (as a passenger) after gaining more knowledge about how everything works, yet I’ve still had fears like: what if the guy is depressed? I know, it’s silly, but it happened before.
I’ve been watching these for the same reason. I’m hoping that more knowledge will calm my fears but I can’t tell if it’s helping or hurting. I have a 17 hour flight in December so we’ll see how it goes lol
@@dreamthedream8929 well I lived but the way back was pretty horrifying because there was bad weather in pretty much all of Asia and that midair collision in Japan happened like 2 or 3 days before my flight home so that was fresh in my mind. I’m glad I didn’t let my fear stop me from seeing Asia but I for the foreseeable future all of my travels stateside will be by car or train lol
It should also be noted that the G's taken during spaceflight, especially now with everything being capsules is always Eyeballs In. A position in which you can take mid to high G loading with far less issue. Given this was G force to Feet direction on the 747 incident I bet a few passengers momentary blacked out at 5 G.
@@Mr.Scootini The tail moves about more but I always felt the nose gets the extra Gs as its doing the pitching up whereas the tail needs to go down relative.
@@UKairways G-forces come from acceleration, not movement, so constant rotation only adds centrifugal effects which will be about equal front and back. And if you have considerable rotational acceleration to add on top of the 5Gs due to the wing loading, the frame will definitely give out. So it's likely that the G-forces were fairly evenly distributed, and good thing that. The place where rotation does make a lot of difference is aerodynamic forces, and a sharp pitching maneuver at high speed can create additional aerodynamic stress on the tail section on top of the high loading due to vertical velocity caused by rotation effectively increasing angle of attack. Which is probably why the wings managed to hold and the horizontal stabilizer didn't. I would also speculate, purely based on the fact that permanent deformation suggests how close they came to the failure point, that maybe losing parts of the elevator helped prevent pitching up even sharper and losing the wings.
Yep. 4 G to 6 G is the blackout point without a G-suit on. It can be even less if you are less healthy and on your body shape. Tall people tend to have problems earlier, but there are a lot of other factors.
@@liam3284 That's all true, but all of these forces are going to be the same across the aircraft. You can decompose the motion into center of mass movement along the arch, which generates most of these 5+ Gs and rotation around center of mass, which is not going to contribute significantly compared to that at any sort of rotation an aircraft is going to survive at these speeds.
I always loved to fly the "queen of the skies", how we used to call the 747. In this particular incident that aircraft showed it was constructed for military use, but I hesitate to think that many planes of today would withstand that kind of punishment. As to the performance of the flight crew, I'd just love to know what their company decided on them in the aftermath of this flight..
A lot of parts used to have commercial and military equivalents at Boeing, e.g. the commercial steering yoke/“steering wheel” was of a magnesium alloy, while the military version was of a less-flammable aluminum alloy. I worked in an area where these parts were machined (1989-1993.)
I'm sure they took a significant hit to their social credit. Not as much as if they acknowledged the existence of Taiwan, of course. Probably avoided being systematically sterilized in a re-education camp. Probably.
@@ootdega actually, if you paid attention...the flight left from taiwan, this is a hint that if you googled china airlines, you'd find that it is the state owned flag carrier of Taiwan. So, ya know...they probably do acknowledge the existence of their own country.
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Just my observation of all these flight dramas is...pilots should first learn to fly gliders (not rely on engines ) that way they will actually FLY .Then introduce engines.They seem to lose all perspective when they have no engine power !
15,494.5 hours of flying time is irrelevant information. Please keep it up to 2-3 "significant figures" for flying times. And pretty much most data (maximum 3 significant figures is acceptable as all extra is memory clutter inside our brains) like weight, fuel on board etc (you can also add "about" to specify rounding). Therefore 15.500 hrs of flying time and 7700 hrs of flying time. DO NOT be more precise. Thank you :)
Or "more than 15 thousand hours" is even better.
Hi, could you please make a video about the collision of DHL 611 and Bashkirian-Airlines 2937 in Germany 2002?
No. Zero interest.
This is one of the most insane stories I've seen you present yet. The fact that they recovered and landed in mostly one piece after falling 30,000 feet is UNBELIEVABLE.
You're right..I mean..look at the condition of that plane..looks like God was holding onto that plane while it went thru hell....I guess they all survived cause the Sun was still up.
I guess those 747's are built like tanks.
Yes-but it does illustrate one phenomenon that conspiracy theorists have… “5G” really is harmful!!😂
@@malcolmwhite6588 absolute dad joke lol
You can thank the US army for how tough the 747 is. The only heavy lift aircraft stronger than a 747 is the C-5 Galaxy, and that's saying something.
WoW this is the classic swiss cheese model, I work in aircrew training and the hardest thing to teach is trust your instruments, the second hardest to to get the first officer to speak up when things go wrong.
Indeed it is.
100% true.
Wow ! Thanks 4 that. x
You don't have to lie to kick it. Earl is that you man?
@@francislea4700 aaAaaap wtf
Anyone who flies and is frightened of turbulence and wondering "at what stage the wings are going to fall off" needs to watch this, A quite incredible account of just how much punishment an airframe can take, yet still land safely. What the crew did or didn't do in a timely manor to avoid this situation altogether has to be excused by the fact they got the aircraft safely on the ground with everybody living to tell the tale. Another great video Captain Petter, thanks for all your efforts in keeping these truly excellent studies coming.
Thank YOU for being here supporting and interacting. 💕
"has to be excused" - The end never justifies the means and does not and should not absolve the flight crew of remediation to train and fix their errors. Had the flight crew understood bleed load hogging and closed the pressure valves to slowly bring engine number 4 back up to speed at a proper altitude, then they would have increased their chances to gracefully recovered from the pending disaster without risking all the passengers' lives. The only commendation here goes to the engineering of the aircraft for holding together through over 5g accelerations. Future passengers now get to unknowingly endure the horrific possibility of repeating these events with the same as-yet-untrained flight crew as they continue to fly with no remediation and therefore no belief they themselves could have done anything differently.
@@thom1218 Pilots are humans too and can make mistakes like anyone else
@@thom1218 'not believing their instruments' -SO many times (other crashes) it is really time simulators showed one on-screen 'out of the window' image and give a different picture as displayed on the instruments - and see which the pilots believe - if they follow the 'on-screen' image they crash and if they believe their instruments and fly by them, they don't crash.
Boeing has a long-standing reputation for building strong, rugged aircraft, going all the way back to the famous B-17 Flying Fortress.
"And perhaps there was one other hero that day. The Boeing 747 itself. It was put through manoeuvres and stresses that far outweighed it's known limits and yet, despite it all, the aircraft survived and landed safely." -ACI, Panic over the Pacific
Agreed, with no human eror, 747 is a tank in the sky, it's strong, durable and have unique design
Literally this plane needed to be shutdown by a rocket to be destroy in pieces
Actually the 747 was the unique hero. The crew made every mistake they could in order to crash the plane.
@@jorge_781 In the ACI episode, one commentator said that even tho the pilots caused the incident themselves, they also performed a great recovery and after the plunge they handled the damaged plane carefully and made a safe landing. "The one big thing they did right, and one only ever has to do one big thing, is: They saved the airplane. And in principle, that's all you ever need to do right when something happens to your airplane. You need to save the airplane and you need to save the passengers. And that is what they did."
@@Aranimda If someone put the airplane in that condition you're already not a hero by definition. 1) not trusting in your instruments when you're the middle of a cloud formation - disregarding the best information 2) incorrect procedure to re-fire the #4 engine 3) not use rudder to correct the heading 4) negligence on recovering airplane attitude when they're had all information and resources to do that 5) bad cabin management and wrong procedures after engine fail and the list just goes on.
Just imagine a person who throws a baby by the window and runs to save her/him being very kick going down the stairs, and get the child. Hero?
5g's in a 747. All these years and I thought my experiences in Microsoft Flight Simulator as a child using the biggest plane as a stunt plane were baseless. Still terrifying for everyone on board.
Hey I’ve done the exact same thing countless times, only as an adult!! 747 all the time doing the biggest aerobatics as possible!! Haha
For another real-world example of using big planes like stunt planes, look up Tex Johnson; he barrel-rolled a 707 in front of spectators... twice (the second time was to make sure they really believed what they saw). For a flight sim thing, I've seen plenty of people use the ol' 'stall 'n' drop' technique to land 747s on aircraft carriers or remote, tiny runways around the world. It's pretty challenging, so give it a go if you're confident.
I had an old Commodore 64 flight simulator (Acrojet maybe?) where I'd fly up as high as I could at 110% power until the engine died. Then I'd glide down to the runway for the next five minutes.
Those G forces haf to feel like someone was a literally pushing you into your seat and forcing you there Whatever you experience on a roller coaster this had to of been 20 times more firm
Ah, FSX. The good old days for me. I played that game enough I'd wager I could take control of a small aircraft in an emergency. I want to get a proper sim set up and play the new one but that's a lot of money currently best spent on other things. Same with actually becoming a general aviation pilot, I'd love to do it but it's very expensive.
Retired B747 classic captain here. Your analysis was pretty awesome. I was impressed by your knowledge of the 747 systems and the use of cockpit video simulations. Kudos.
Sir please guide me to be become a pilot with very limited resources 😔
@@1ibnebatuta where are you located. ?
@@1ibnebatuta Because of the worldwide pilot shortage, now is an excellent time to become a pilot. Many of the airlines have started their own pilot training program. I’d check those out. The other option is to buy a small Cessna 150 or something similar and hire an instructor to teach you and build your hours that way. Even if you have to borrow the money, you can frequently sell the airplane after your done for more than you paid for it. If you buy wisely that is. If you decide to go this route, hire a A&P mechanic to do a pre buy inspection. It’ll pay dividends if you do.
@@mdbryan9525 a huge thanks sir for even considering my comment. Another barrier in my mind is my age. I'm already 38 years old. Can I still persue my dreams.
@@1ibnebatuta No problem. Your age is a plus, not a negative. The airline is going to see you as being more mature. Able to act with less drama in case of an emergency. Anybody can fly a plane when everything is going right. It takes a professional to handle an airplane when everything is going wrong.
Imagining the cold chill felt by the flight crew when they finally connected the fact that the false horizon and the real horizon were in sync with each other.
Snigger.
You’d think they could feel they were upside down. I know pilots are suppose to rely on instruments not feelings but I know damn well you can feel when your body goes upside down.
@@Cjmm007 pretty sure you don't know how pulling 3 or 5 gs feels like, i do neither but i assume it would mask the feeling of being upside down
@@Cjmm007 You wont feel you are upside down when you are moving fast and rolling at the same time. there are multi directional inputs going to your brain making you lose complete spatial awareness. hard to re-create on the ground,
@@Cjmm007 Even with an old flight sim like falcon 4.0, it's easy to experience yourself how easy it is to get lost. For example, flying at night really feels like you don't move at all. Like sitting in a complete void. Now imagine that with an AR headset.
This aircraft is now stored at the Tijuana International airport and has been for years. It sticks out like a sore thumb near the end of the runway. Great video!
It's a shame that it's just there collecting dust. That thing should be repainted back to its period-correct China Airlines livery and put on display at an aviation museum as a testament to the 747's resilience.
How did it go to Tijuana?
@@raptorhacker599 probably it was a near enough airport that wasn’t in the US that allowed it to be accommodated.
@@CoSmicGoesRacingyup Tijuana is pretty close, just south of San Diego in California
Is it still there? In googling it was reported that they were considering scrapping it, but I can’t find any more information
It's crazy they would start to question the instruments so quickly. They were lucky when they got below the clouds with ample altitude to recover. A lot of times this type of dive coupled with low clouds is certain death.
That's Chinese guys for you. Hehe
They probably thought the instruments were made in china.
taiwan*
Pulling out of a dive at 9,000 feet means they were seconds away from cratering.
Whenever I'm doing stupid stuff in Flight Sim I never attempt dramatic maneuvers below 10,000 feet, it almost always ends hitting the ground.
Taiwanese made products are much more reliable, actually.
I never cease to be amazed at how seasoned professionals can make sustained rookie mistakes. I'm not immune to this, but when I make a mistake, I just lose a few hours of work, nobody is gonna die if I make a mistake, even a relatively bad one.
The thing that always boggles me is people in high-risk environments being willing to tolerate even further risks.
To err is human, but taking chances with something as potentially dangerous as flying implies a profound lack of risk-assessment i feel.
It's one thing to try to cut in line in a traffic jam, but when you're in an airplane taking risks can lead to you and everyone else PLUMMETING TO YOUR DEATH (as we just saw), which one would think is a pretty good motivation to not take any risks.
Its so good to hear of an emergency that actually ended in everyone surviving. This actually makes me, with an extreme fear of flying, feel better about flying because it shows not all emergencies end in disaster.. well except for the guy with a broken foot
This should never have been an emergency though. It was a simple engine failure that any pilot should know exactly how to deal with but apparently these pilots didn't.
@@David-ud9ju right, but even in the case of pilots dealing with the situation this poorly, it still managed to be recovered without loss of human life. Just loss of some underwear, I'm sure, and consequences for the pilots, I'm sure. At the very least severe retraining *AND* a look at the airline's training programs and crew culture that could allow for such complacency and confirmation bias. It's a difficult scenario for me to judge, as I'm not a pilot, just an armchair enthusiast who watches too many videos like this lol, and because although the pilots were the main cause of the issue, they also did end up getting it on the ground safely once they removed their heads from their asses! (Should've added a "remove before flight" tag there too!!!)🤣
I would’ve cussed them tf out when I walked past them getting off the plane.
Honestly, this is one of the stories less well suited to build trust in the aviation system, as the pilot(s) mishandled it quite a bit. Cant say i blame them, but still. He has a few stories like that, which is a bit disheartening. Like the one with the pilot that felt superior due to his experience and started lecturing and looking down on his second pilot, which ended in a huge tragedy. Or the one with the airport that had horrible safety standards and a lot of broken stuff, where you just end up asking yourself how that's even possible. But those are the exceptions, not the norm. There is also a planeload of videos that really make you look up and respect those pilots for their decisionmaking and how they handle stress. Like the Hudson Miracle, or his currently newest video about a beoing nearly crashing into a mountain, which i really enjoyed. Or the one where a passender had to land a plane, where you really felt all the experts coming together to help. Amazing stories.. even more so because they are real.
Um yeh nah not everyone survived the lady that got sucked halfway out died
It is amazing how an experienced crew can allow a situation that seems manageable to escalate that quickly out of control 😮
amazing and very scary indeed
And not understand why a #4 engine-out could present some aerodynamic issues. Why they didn't slightly back off thrust on #1 and #2 and start descending is just basic.
What ethnicity and race were the pilots? Thats why 😅
Racist trash
The scariest thing about this is it happened with so much experience in the cockpit.
90% experience on auto pilot
@@mef12727 more like 99.9%
Experience as glorified bus drivers. Und unlike bus drivers they don't even have to handle the controls. I'd trust an experienced truck driver more than one of these bozos
@@LeutnantJoker Experienced bus drivers are also to be trusted 🤨🤨.
@@rafael502 Experience in not falling off the chairs.
Astonishing! Everyone on that flight is lucky to be alive. It shows how a small problem can mushroom into a huge problem when there is a loss of situational awareness.
When you have people who don’t know how to properly solve a problem. They were extremely fortunate.
Absolutely.
Hey Frank, I'm not sure what I'm seeing here. I think we've got a simultaneous failure in 3 redundant flight instruments.
Sounds about right to me, Captain! Also, sir, I'd just like to take the opportunity to say how much I admire your new seating position on the ceiling! Very avant guarde!
😂😂😂
Thats hilarious
Ding ding ding! We've got a winner! Great comment!!
they also make the video 25 minutes longer than it should be by repeating the same crap over and over.
Captain, another amazing thing is how your coffee cup is sitting upside down on the ceiling and not spilling, so not only are all our instruments faulty, but gravity itself seems broken now. Do they have anything about that in the manuals?
absolutely insane that after pushing the aircraft far past any safe limits they still wanted to fly to their intended destination instead of landing down safely as fast as they could
unbelievable
Yep, and didn't think to check the passengers. Incompetence.
Honestly this was one episode with the dumbest pilots
Arrogance mainly
It demonstrates a real lack of knowledge of aeronautical engineering. They wouldn’t need to know exactly how many g’s they were pulling to know they stressed the shit out of the airframe.
Kind of blown away by how they didn't trust _three_ separate horizons all in agreement.... Even if the agreed situation was horrible..... Human beings are curious things. Thank goodness for a safe if really scary outcome. (How did they even have pitch control with the tailplane in that condition???) Great video Sir, keep them coming!
When your senses tell you that down isn't where down really is and all you see around you is the cockpit, that is a powerful impression and that is what you trust instinctively.
They probably didn't look at them actively with the intent of comparing instruments to antcipated situation.
The pilot probably jus glanced at one of them, stating his initial reaction - Presumably the flight engineer should have checked them acively when the pilot made the satement.
Their brains were being subjected to high vertical loads dude.
Tunnel vision and panic response developed quickly. Assisting crew - sometimes better positioned to see the big picture - disabled by g forces. But armchair evaluations are easy. Flight in turbulence at altitudes near the flight altitude limits demands constant awareness....crew do not have a pause button. Remarkable that the aircraft held together.
One of the fundamental problems though is that we, as humans, only understand facts when they are situated in narratives. If you don't understand how the instruments are showing something so heavily messed up, it will be very, very hard to understand them. Confirmation and continuation bias both come from this.
I totally understand how this works. I am not in aviation but I have worked on large, complex IT systems and I have been bit by similar cognitive biases.
What I am wondering is how the captain (pilot flying here I think) failed to notice the roll until the upset was so heavily developed. I would have expected an instrument scan to notice the roll before that point.
I had expected this to end with everyone onboard lost, so it was a nice surprise that everyone got out (mostly) okay. Still, considering how bad the damages were to the aircraft especially to the control surfaces, it's a miracle they could land safely.
That these pilots managed to create such a big mess out of a single engine failure is very disheartening from a passenger's point of view.
Indeed.
15000 hour captain - and probably 13000 of those hours flown on autopilot. even worse today. lots of professional pilots talking about it.
Agree. I have watched quite a few of these and this seems like some of the worst piloting. They got off lucky
@@MichaelStawowy Indeed, AF447 is an example of the problem, when things go wrong a % of pilots are not well prepared / not able to diagnose correctly and losing "situation awareness" can lead to a crash.
I hope these pilots all retired after this flight. This should have been the recommendation of the final report.
I’m an ATP and an FAA gold seal flight instructor certificate. Also hold every fixed wing certificate out there over the past 35 years. I’m medically retired now but need an aviation fix often and these videos really go along way toward keeping me in touch with the knowledge I can no longer use but still enjoy thinking about.
I, like so many others, believe pilots should go through aerobatic training and when an airline pilot should have extensive training in simulation recovering from severe unusual attitudes. I had some great sim instructors who loved to place me in unusual attitudes to recover from. One instructor would place us in a night IMC scenario with a mix of malfunctioning instruments or engine loss. Once successful and time permitting, we be given nothing but our emergency instruments.
One thing I noticed, while instructing, a lot of pilots panic more when they loose automation than when they loose an engine. Hand flying in a high mental load environment often results in an incomplete sim session or an outright failure.
I realize these scenarios are extremely rare in real life but they do occur therefore we need to train for them.
Your comment reminds me of a comment I read under another video. The person mentioned the book "Children of the Magenta Line" which the author, who's a retired pilot, wrote about how automation changed piloting skills.
This was insightful. Thanks for sharing.
"It's okay, we landed in one piece."
External inspection engineer: "Well, technically....no, you didn't."
Any landing you can walk away from, is a good landing!
@@superomegaprimemk2 But they were towed...
@@superomegaprimemk2 If you can fly the plane again it's a better landing.
Lol!😌✈
@@peterebel7899 But they were still able to safely land. Being towed to the terminal is a better than having a crashed plane on the runway.
"Trust you instruments" This was pounded into my head during flight training. They can fail but if the redundant systems agree, they are probably correct. Amazing amount of damage to that aircraft! They were fortunate it wasn't worse.
pitot tube incidents .
I think It had something to do with their visibility. Because they had no visual reference they didn't think the aircraft was actually doing what the artificial horizon said it was doing. It seemed the captain wasn't aware of the gradual banking either so from his perspective the artificial horizon just went crazy.
@@thaneoffife6904 That and our inner ear can only sense acceleration, not which way is actually up. It's possible to think you're flying level but you're actually upside down, pulling back on the stick, and gradually going vertical crashing into the ground.
They were very lucky to survive. One that wasn't - check out Atlas Air 3591. Perfectly functional 767 that the co-pilot kamikaze'd into the ground under the impression they were stalling.
@@Kalumbatsch Yep. That's what happened in the Kobe crash.
fantastic level of detail here. An episode of "Mayday" covered this incident, but you went into much finer details and explained things that were not covered. Great stuff
I live in Tijuana, Mexico and since little I remember a parked 747 in our locale airport and until now I decided to look into the history of the aircraft. Crazy to think that the 747 involved in this specific incident has been sitting in my city for 15+ years, it feels so weird to know everytime I watch this video I can just drive a few miles and appreciate the actual 747 in all it's glory. Loved the video btw, great job as always c:
Puedes tomar una foto amigo?
I wish Mexico was a native american country. It should have been. It sucks that europeans ended up becoming a majority there despite the civilizations of americans there. I wonder how much tourism they would be getting if instead of maya ruins there would be maya cities
@@eetuthereindeer6671one small question, how does this have anything to do with the video and aviation in particular 😅😅
@@planespottingoliver7317 it does not 🤔 good point
Awebo yo soy de playas de tijuana, no sabia que era el mismo avión
The 747SP is one tough bird. N4522V was repaired and continued to fly until 2006 which is pretty incredible.
I could swear that the airframe would be deemed un airworthy after pulling those Gs
@@lucianistoc1264old aircraft : (insert gigachad .jpg) new aircraft (insert remains of LA 610)
"We can control the aircraft" just killed me. I wonder if air traffic controler [who probably had not been apprised of prior situation] wanted to ask the obvious question - "was there a point where you couldn't control the aircraft?"
Still a right thing to inform. The controller is aware something is very wrong if you do not respond to multiple calls, during wich your aircraft is teleporting 20 thousand feet down.
I know, right? It's like a kid saying, 'hey, mom, don't worry about your garden, because it looks okay now'. Like, gee, sounds suuuuuuper trustworthy right??? (ahem SARCASM)
@@dmytrogubskyi4355 Indeed.
Kennedy Steve would probably have roasted them with something like "yes, that's what you're paid for"
Air traffic probably did not trust their instruments either! xD
I find it ridiculously impressive that such a large, clumsy-looking plane can take those forces well enough to be able to land!
Its the safest most durable plane ever built. Respect it.
beautiful plane
_They were executing fighter jet moves with that plane, giving the passengers the ride of a life time..._ 😱
Kudos & respect to the manufacturer; Boeing.
@@NickanMyour comment did not age well , just like boeing after MD merger
you have an incredible ability to explain complex information simply and clearly without ego. your productions are engaging without dramatics or blame. I'm glad for the work you do.
I cannot imagine the level of absolute terror that all those passengers had to endure. 5 g’s is enough to make a grown man cry and I’m sure some people lost consciousness for a brief moment only to wake up to more terror.
Having pulled 5g’s before, I wouldn’t have been impressed 😂
5 g would be blackout-territory for a healthy person
@@louissanderson719 what were you doing that you pulled 5Gs?
@@slipknottin aerobatics
Oof! That sounds horrific!
I was on a ATA (American Trans Air no longer in business) L1011 coming home to Indy from Vegas back in the 90's that made a 1000 foot drop in a split second. We actually went over a patch of turbulence so strong and the captain later told us over the intercom that there was a downdraft that robbed all of the lift from the wings. When we finally stopped dropping and the lift caught back up, the amount of G force we felt was incredible. Just before it happened the attendants were going up the aisle with the little drink cart and they suspended drink service. If they had not, that cart would have been airborne for sure. I know if I didn't have my seatbelt on I would have smashed the overhead. We were flying over the Rocky Mountains in the late summer/early fall. To fall 30,000 feet in 2.5 minutes would have been so much worse. We diverted to Omaha immediately and spent 6 hours there while they checked over the plane. 7 hours later we were airborne again. Scariest flying incident of my life to date.
Scary stuff!
yeah the airdrop are the funniest part of flying, low and high g are fantastic! i wish i could try 9g in a jet, is my life dream :X
One of the best large commercial planes was overbuilt & therefore not a financial success.
Terrifying! You are very smart and that's precisely why there's NO excuse not to keep your seat belt fastened at all times when you're seated. The attendants don't have the luxury in a split second drop.
The fact that the passenger & cabin crew were so little injured is just absolutely frickin' incredible to me, given they were experiencing forces stronger than those you'd get if strapped to the nose of a Saturn moon rocket!! 😳 Must have been psychologically terrifying though...
Man, that pullout must have been insane! To put that in perspective, most roller coasters are designed to have no more than about 4 seconds of 4g. The closest comparison I can find would be a now defunct Japanese coaster, that had a maximum g force of about 6.5, and sustained around 5g for about 2 seconds. People have said that they felt like they couldn’t breathe. I have actually been on a coaster that pulled 4g for around 5 seconds, and it was intense as hell!
Crazy to think that they could only straighten out when they came out the clouds ☁️ and saw the horizon,what if it was misty or nighttime,surely your gyroscope can’t be faulty
If you mean the artificial horizon, attitude indicators can definitely fail, and the most likely reason is from a loss of power scenario. Which they thought they were experiencing.
They can also fail as a result of rapid changes in speed or direction, which they definitely did experience.
They can fail, but there's several and they'd fail independently. The chances of all 3 failing at the same time is extremely low.
What's more, is there are vertical speed indicators and altimeters that would've shown that the plane was actually diving also.
In essence, there should always be enough info to know if you're flying level in terms of altitude. Bank not so much, but it's still extremely unlikely you'd lose all instruments indicating bank angle.
Why a gimballed ship's compass isn't fitted to all airline dashboards I'll never understand! Seems too much emphasis on automation and too little on remaining "situationally aware" (knowing up from down for instance!).
@@B_-.- Keep in mind reliability, and awareness of systems from pilots, was a lot lower in 1985. I can understand where these pilots were coming from. And they took the right procedures to attempt to correct the false "issue." Aside from attempting to re-light the engine too soon.
I feel like people are coming down way too hard on these pilots. Especially compared to the reaction I saw for Air France 447, a modern crew on a modern plane, yet somehow everyone acts with sympathy towards the "confusion" of the pilot who was doing nose hard-up in a stalling aircraft. 🤦 After being told to go nose down by his co-pilot _and_ captain.
@@seventh-hydra I didn't say a word about the pilots. I just explained that a failure of every instrument indicating that the plane is climbing/descending is extremely unlikely, even in 1985.
"Pilot error" is an overused phrase that pushes blame onto pilots when in actuality, the people who are responsible for them - airlines - should be held responsible. There are some causes where a pilot does something totally stupid, but 90% of the time, you can root the issue back to lackluster training, lackluster experience, or a trail of small issues that no one put together previously.
They were so close to completely tearing apart! Seeing the horizontal stabilizer ripped apart, I would have passed out! Their Guardian Angeles and Boeing engineers were definitely with them! Phew!
It usually takes a series of small events to cause a really big one.
The fact they had all that minor to medium damage that DIDN'T lead to a major event is pretty amazing.
True that
to be fair, pulling 5g on a 747 is pretty major if you ask me
Thank the engineers and the workmen who build these aircraft. They are some of the best examples of great engineering and craftsmanship. Lots of hardwork go into building these beautiful machines
Had the fourth engine been repaired adequately?.
@@denischarette7972 obviously not.
This is a testament to the 747's resiliency and only one reason why it is still up in the sky after over 5 decades! Man I love this marvel of engineering.
It’s a fantastic aircraft..
It's a miracle this plane landed safely. My gosh. I would've been scared to death had I been on that flight. Boeing makes really good planes. I wonder if the 747-400 could handle that level of G's. The saving grace may have been that the 747-SP has a shorter body and the aerodynamic and physical stresses were closer to the plane's center of mass. Thanks for posting this video!
Boeing sources out to Chinese slave labor factories
I think what you meant to say was the stresses were less because the forces were closer to the body of the airplane which meant the moment arm was shorter and thus stresses were less
@@ALFRED744 them and also google and every other tech lord. Selling all our data and tech to the CCP
I think you're correct about that. I'm watching the Mayday version and it incorrectly CGId the plane to look like a 747-400.
"Boeing makes really good planes." Not anymore... ;(
747, I always felt perfectly safe in it on trips to Europe from LAX. FANTASTIC AIRLINER. And obviously very forgiving of bad pilots. And what a beautiful looking aircraft.
I can’t believe the final report had no recommendations! That’s like saying “yeah we know this incident happened but we don’t know how make improvements to make sure it doesn’t happen again”. Kinda scary really. Aren’t these incidents supposed to improve safety…
Yes, and sometimes the report in itself is the safety improvement.
We can always recommend better training but these pilots had gone through the required training of inflight engine failure so it seems to have been a genuine mistake.
"Convenient Amnesia"
The NTSB really missed an opportunity to recommend measures to mitigate fatigue and monotony in the cockpit, because it was brought up in the report. Even jet lag was mentioned, as the captain went through so many time zones in the past week. Jeddah to Taipei, then a couple of round trips from Taipei to Japan, and then Taipei to LA all in the last week. The NTSB could've recommended limits on how much load a pilot takes on on a weekly basis, or how to make the autopilot more pilot-friendly, and not merely mask problems, or how to make sleeping in planes more achievable for the pilots.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the passengers swore off of airplane flights after this incident. It must have been terrifying. 😧🥺
Gee I hope people who get into car accidents don't swear off automobiles, that way.
@@Argumemnon Some do.
Often, it can even extend past the type of vehicle an accident occurred in. Or even develop into general anxiety disorders, where their whole sense of risk assessment changes. It can take years of effort and therapy to readjust after such an experience. If they ever manage to readjust at all.
@@Argumemnon Trauma exists. If you feel like shit when getting in a car then you won't get in a car.
@@SgtHappyHands Yeah, it took me almost a year to not be terrified every time I went through an intersection after I got t-boned.
@@ArgumemnonI mean, yeah, people do. Stuff’s scary
Just a small thing for you to correct.. the description says Air China flight 006. Air China is the flag carrier of PRC (mainland) but this flight is China Airlines, flag carrier of ROC (Taiwan).
Im confused but china ailrine is a taiwan airline.
I think I've watched this incident on the Air Crash Investigation documentary, and I think it's interesting to see a different perspective on the discussion this. Specifically the events from the engine failure to pretty much loss of control, and then recovery after.
Mentor pilot does amazing job at explaining these videos
Yes, MT is an expert pilot and understands the issues. Hollywood makes guesses and sensationalizes everything.
@@toomanyhobbies2011 those documentaries are very well done though.
Yeah, me too. And on Allec Joshua Ibay's channel. Always on the edge of my seat--this is an amazing story any way around!
@@toomanyhobbies2011 Air Crash Investigation was run on the Discovery Channel in Canada so while it isn't exactly Hollywood, I think that their episodes are a bit sensationalized and incorrect at times. Like showing an 8-abreast economy cabin while showing an accident involving a 747 at one time, for instance.
At Hamilton Standard we designed and built the engine fuel control, as well as the stator vane control scheduler for that P&W engine.
One of the tasks of the fuel control is to limit both the acceleration of the engine to prevent the turbine temperature to exceed a certain limit and the deceleration is also limited to prevent flame out.These functions override the power lever function as does the altitude compensation.
In those days the TIT (turbine inlet temperature) could not reliably be measured. This temperature was computed by measuring the much lower compressor exit temperature and then a temperature increment was computed by the fuel controller based on the compressor pressure , to determine density, rpm to to determine airflow , and the fuel flow limit was computed based on the allowable increment to reach the TIT allowable.
At high altitudes the density is low, nearly a fourth at 42000 feet, making the temperature very sensitive to fuel flow.
Bleeding compressor air on that engine will reduce the compressor exit pressure significantly and limit the fuel flow more than on the other engines, resulting on exactly what was observed: a noticeably slower engine acceleration, to protect the turbine from overheating
In other words: the engine (and fuel controller) were working as designed at that altitude.
Thank you very much for this information! Obviously and unfortunately the pilots of this flight weren´t aware of this.
Makes sense, very early jet engines had to be operated very carefully at the thrust lever. Either they would catch fire or flame out.
Great info. So many aviation related pros in these comments. Thanks.
Man that was technical stuff.
I would love to understand this comment...but that's OK I build fishing yachts and stay on the earth.
I would fly with this dude as my pilot anywhere. All the knowledge and awareness he gets from making all these videos must be insanely helpful. Great job all around. Happy flying.
A bit unbelievable that after what happens during this flight, the captain decides not to fly to the closest airport. Knowing that this aircraft was exposed to extremely forces and you never know what damages could has been done at the aircraft. One of the recommendation should also be: required to land at the nearest airport. regardless of what happened or the captain his feelings.
honestly I don’t think they were aware of the G forces, let alone the sheer extent of them, considering they couldn’t believe their instruments
@@snowpawzvideos They lost 30,000 feet altitude in less then 150 seconds. That sink rate is waaaaaaaay beyond anything normal. Even in an emergency dive after loss of cabin pressure the sink rate is around 6000-7000 feet/minute ... they got to 12,000 ft/min. In one moment they knew they were at 41,000 ft, and then suddenly below the cloud level! And that is even AFTER the captain pulled the yolk so hard that they almost stalled!
G forces aside - if they think they cant trust their instruments, they should land!
@@snowpawzvideos Well if everyone suddenly starts falling around you, one might wonder if there are some G forces involved.
Not a pilot, but I totally agree, especially as there is no way to view the outside of the plane to know if any damage or what kind. Common sense = land ASAP.
Watched this before on mayday episodes, but to watch it here and to learn after everything the captain still opted to fly around for fun with a wounded bird is nothing short of absurd
man, based on how thorough all these investigations are, I can't believe there were no recommendations. Like... it seems totally obvious that an engine out checklist and training on a multi-engine aircraft should have "apply rudder to counter assymetric thrust" as the very first order of operations (aviate, navigate communicate and all). You lose an engine, assymetric thrust is 100% guaranteed, so that just seems like it should be in muscle memory. lost engine? lemme give a little rudder. crisis averted
Yea.
Why are so many so basic things not done here?
Recomendations: none. actually means "Never go full retard !!!" in this case. They just threw their hands up in the air.
How the hell did they not recommend some kind of increased "trust your fucking instruments" training either?? These were *experienced* pilots, and by the way they were flying, if it was dark or foggy below 11k they would've just assumed the altimeter was wrong and flown it straight into the ocean.
Because all these things already are in the training. There’s no multi-engine pilot license that doesn’t include what to do during asymmetric thrust..
A warning signal for the autopilot when it keeps a long, persistent bank angle might also be in order. Without rudder authority, the AP is only capable of going straight. It shouldn't be banking the aircraft for very long.
Once again, bang on. How these 25 min passed, watching it.. Quick and interesting. Knew some new terms with this video. Keep rocking captain.
Watch it 1x5 speed
What do you mean by "25 minutes"?! Oh sh...!
@@TotalRookie_LV video time is 24.59 min, right? So I said 25 minutes. Means interesting and analystical videos wouldn't let you feel that how quick time will pass on. What's your query then.
What separates you from other flight channels is that you explain a bit by bit what is happening, and it really helps those who have no idea about planes and aviation. Keep being awesome ❤️
I was actually hoping for this episode to come. -A horrifying event with a happy end. Thanks a lot Mentour!
All men love a "Happy Ending"
@@homefront3162 :)
@@homefront3162 An happy ending would require the captain and second pilot be relieved of any further command and the promotion of staff confined to people capable of understanding how aircraft work.
I was working at SFO when this happened. I was working for WestAir commuter airline, ( Now I believe it's part of United Express ) and saw this aircraft. One of our DH-6 pilots landed after this aircraft and even though he was a few miles behind the damaged 747 his windshield was getting hydraulic fluid on it and needed to be cleaned off. We were told by United mechanics, Boeing removed the wings and replaced the spars and attached new wings. United has a huge maintenance base at SFO and the plane flew out after the repairs. it was on the TV news that night also.
Hopefully the two pilots were sacked.
I love how the pilot was like "we're in a sudden pitch maneuver. Our 3 redundant instruments are unreliable because it all says we're pitching down, which can't be true, despite having inputed commands to descend to a lower altitude before. Most importantly why does the speed keep increasing when I'm doing nothing?"
When your coffee starts flying upwards out of your cup but you re still convinced the instruments are wrong.
Watch his video on whether a pendulum would be a useful tool in aircraft (hint: it's not)
Wow! I'm an Army rotary wing NDI inspector and I love these videos. Stress and fatigue on those wings and for them to stay working is amazing.
I'm actually really impressed by the B747 after all what happened to her, she was still be able to fly & land safely. We lost u Queen 😔
God and angels saved the passengers !
Yes in this case the aircraft was a hero, not the crew. It managed, away from all these tortures it received from humans...
All hail the queen of the skies!
@@teodoradamis6542 No, it was the incredible skills of the pilots.
We didn't lose her, she was repaired and put back in to service after all that!
I’m sitting here gobsmacked that they came out of that so unscathed. I can’t help thinking of JAL 123. For some reason that battle the captain so valiantly fought has stuck in my head. Pulling those g’s… staying with it and fighting, just amazing.
JAL 123 haunts me as well. I'm so glad that this flight had a happier ending.
The Air crash investigation episode on this is my favourite of all time. The visualisation of this was incredible, and the way the captain snapped his plane back level after glimpsing the horizon was absolutely nothing short of spectacular. The fact the crew caused the disaster is irrelevant compared to the way the captain leveled and landed what was left of his plane.
Agreed. They lost situational awareness and that is not good, but at the end of the day they managed to save the plane and safely deliver their passengers to the airport. People make mistakes and the hope is that they were able to learn from this incident and become better pilots as a result.
He bent it. With 10000 feet of air left. He's lucky he didn't break it.
Yo what season? I can't find it.
I don't know what the episode was called but can tell you this from watching the episode: China airlines 006, flown by captain Ho.
I don't know that we will ever see flying like this again with no fatalities in our lifetimes.
This aircraft was parked at SFO, visible on my many flights through there to/from Tokyo every few weeks or so for what seems like from my memory at least about a year after the incident. It was creepy, seeing that damaged tail in plain sight, parked on the tarmac off to the side as we were taxiing to and from the runway.
Interestingly, this plane was repaired and flew for another 12 years after this incident.
@Hasan Saifi- Yes, for real. Google the registration number and see the records.
Now is in tijuana mexico just parked and abandoned
I definitely hold the 747 as my favorite aircraft. It's pretty amazing how abuse it took and was still flying just fine.
Stuff like this is why the saying USED to be, "if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going." Absolutely amazing engineering (and probably no small amount of luck) that allowed a jumbo jet to survive conditions that would have doomed most any other aircraft available, anywhere.
Now the saying is the opposite
Hi fellow aviator here, just wanted to differentiate China airlines and Air China are two separate airlines. One belongs to China 🇨🇳 and the other to Taiwan 🇹🇼.
OMG 😳 how did that thing even fly or land with all the g-force damage?!!??? Well, that just goes to show you why the 747 IS the Queen 👑 of the skies. Always was always will be🙋🏽♀️💕
Queen of the desert now
Has nothing to do with the name brand.
It’s as strong as any other plane.
Name brands don’t mean high wuality
*This demonstrates why the '747' was 'Queen of the Skies' for forty years*
*For the airframe to withstand such tremendous G-forces is incredible* *That the wings withstood that that much flexion and torque is also incredible*
( *There must've been 20-degrees of arc involved!* )
What I really love about this channel is that it focuses on aviation disasters from around the world, a lot of them I have never heard of because I live in the United States. I find this RUclips channel very fascinating despite not being in aviation myself. Love how in depth these are.
I appreciate how you make this very detailed but easy to understand for us casuals. This is complicated stuff and lots to know and you are great at breaking things down
Well done captain, from an air traffic controller I can never emphasize enough that a pan pan call gets the attention immediately!
These incident analyses are brilliant. It’s like seeing an analysis of cardiac stent insertion by an actual cardiovascular surgeon versus a bunch of actors, dramatic music, and added drama. I mean, the incident itself was dramatic enough. Thank you for these videos. They’re highly instructive, and may prevent another such event from happening in the future.
This incident fascinates me so much, because it's the union of two things that rarely happens. Firstly, the pilots make big mistakes in dealing with their situation. Secondly, those mistakes resulted in the plane falling from the sky. Those two things would usually result in an in-flight breakup, or just a crash that would kill everyone on board, and the pilots would be seen as incompetent. However, that didn't happen. What happened instead was that the plane somehow stayed together, the plane was very high at the start, so they had more time to fall and figure out what to do, and they saved the airplane and managed to land it safely despite problems with the elevators (well, the problem with having almost no elevators left on the plane lol).
It's the union of the pilots screwing up so bad AND the pilots getting themselves out of a situation that you would forgive a pilot if they couldn't recover from it. Usually it's one, the other, or neither, but almost never both. It's the union of the best and worst of what a pilot can do.
Something not mentioned in the report nor the video was that the captain crossed so many timezones in the past few days, which may have affected his judgement via jet lag. He also didn't get good sleep during his rest period (rested for 5 hours and slept for 2 hours) to the point where he was in the cockpit at times during the rest period, which may have also caused problems with performance.
Design flaw also.
That first procedure with the bleeder switch should have required a checklist.
These things only require checklist because Boeing doesn't know how computers work. So that's a design flaw, sort of an ongoing one.
SpaceX can land a rocket booster on a boat with nothing but GPS coordinates and a few consumer computers.
@@jtjames79 this was in 1985, computers were not what they are today back then.
@ The 5160 came out in 1983, and Boeing is still not up to that level.
The only reason there isn't autonomous fixed wing auto pilot is because nobody has paid for it. For multirotor I can solve the problem with the computer the size of a quarter. Not because it's easier but because the early adopter tax was paid a long time ago.
Yes it requires a certain level of hacking skills, but that's almost entirely because there are no standards forthcoming from the FAA to automate against. Something that should have started in the early '80s.
So like 40 years of "not invented here". Literally no one from Boeing ever thought to ask John Carmack to help.
Engine failures may be rare but recovery from that should be well drilled SOP.
Indeed, absolutely correct. It´s the union of the worst and best what a pilot can do - and in this combination probably an outstanding unique event.
I have known about this incident for a while but this is the first real thorough explanation I have heard. Thank You.
I've intentionally pulled a little over 3G in a DHC-1, which is built to handle it. You really feel that crushing you down into the seat. It's incredible that they pulled 5G in a 747, and that he kept pulling as the force became overwhelming.
Would it be hard to let go of the yoke while experiencing those g's?
My wife was on that flight ... it was a close call . She was not injured, but greatful to be alive. She was interviewed by a TV station crew. And took a Bus ride to LA . Thank God for the blessings and saving all those lives. .
You are lying don’t make up lies like that for attention.
I remember this vividly. I had moved to Taiwan from California and this is the exact flight I’d take when going back to LA.
I was in Manila when this happened, it scared me so much, luckily we were taking Cathay Pacific back to Taipei. I never liked flying and this incident didn’t help much. The next time I took China Airlines back to Los Angeles, we were the last flight allowed off the island during the beginning of a typhoon. The plane felt like it dropped after takeoff, and this incident went through my mind.
I miss Taiwan but don’t miss the flying.
I flew China Airlines with my parents (can't remember where) about a month after their string of crashes/near-crashes as the flights were ridiculously cheap. When we landed safely, the entire passenger cabin stood up clapping in unison.
I remember the Mayday/Air Crash Investigation episode of this flight. One passenger interviewed said "we landed safely, thats all that mattered. They got us into it, but they got us out of it."
I've been on a binge with these plane crash videos. I find them fascinating. This one was very well put together. Thank you!
Once again, pilots trusting themselves over their instruments leading to an incident. Fortunately this time it wasn't catastrophic, but sure came close.
But rather unusually, trusting the autopilot is what started this mess.
In fairness, it's not always black and white like that. There are several major crashes where the pilots were so dependent upon their instruments that they crashed their planes because they couldn't figure out that their instruments were giving them incorrect readings.
Still, in this case, it is baffling that the captain and first officer would immediately assume their instruments are faulty without any evidence at all that this is the case, even when they know they have an engine failure.
@lordofentropy But then, there are other incidents caused by pilots trusting instruments that were actually faulty.
Artificial horizons rarely fails, pitot sensors can be frozen and gives incorrect readings for speed. Altimeters have to be correctly sets up. Etc.
@@thewhitefalcon8539 Those incidents are so rare compared to how many times pilots stop paying attention to their horizons and either dive the aircraft into the ground or keep pulling the nose up/banking until it stalls.
What you're saying is tantamount to the "there have been people that got trapped by their seatbelts!" Sure that has happened, but that's like 1 incident per million incidents where the seatbelt was far and beyond the better choice.
So sure all 3 artificial horizons *possibly* could've simultaneously failed. It's possible, but not probable, just like I could *possibly* get hit by a shark driving a bus.
Always fantastic when a plane has major possibly life threatening situations and in the end, everyone survives.
Started watching about this flight on that Mayday channel but quickly searched your site. Much better to learn from. As an engineer I enjoy your specifics and no-fluff approach....no drama, just the facts.
That is some insane amount of abuse the airplane took, and still managed to come back home intact. Truly a testament to how well overengineered these things are. Thank you for sharing this story, I'm always looking forward to your next one!
I'm glad I watched this after my flight, not before.
I don't know about anybody else, but this episode actually makes me feel safer flying.
You might be thinking that resting in death will make you safe from the threat of dying.
@@geoh7777 I like that one...
Man that was a rollercoaster. Miracle of engineering that this pkane stayed in one piece
Its is fascinating to see this story, I live in Tijuana and since I remember there was a 747SP parked at the airport. I've always wondered what story that aircraft had to tell, what happened to it and stuff. Turns out, the 747SP parked at Tijuana International Airport (Aeropuerto Internacional Abelardo L. Rodriguez) is the 747SP in this accident, known as the Dive Queen according to the internet, it amazed me when I discovered this.
Sadly, the aircraft now is abandoned and the GAP (Grupo Aeropuertuario del Pacifico) seeks a way to make it go away and there has been talks about scrapping the aircraft, although nothing has really come from it but is something that might happen soon. Its so sad seeing the Dive Queen go like this. The registration for the aircraft is
N4522V
My wife almost died in that plane, I've seen that plane for years not knowing it was THE DIVING QUEEN. Wow!
The fact that this aircraft was still intact (minus the stabilizers) and the passengers lived to go to the hospital or board another plane is astounding to me. I'm both freaking out and laughing hard at this whole situation. Amazing flying by the crew and amazing craftmanship of the plane. Also can't imagine the G forces.
Man oh man. It's mind boggling how several pilotes in the case of a challenging situation not only can't keep their eyes on the "ball" but make several key mistakes and fail to realize what they are doing wrong for such a long time! Unbelievable.
It's impressive how exciting and interesting his storytelling makes detailed aircraft accidents sound.
Absolutely amazing. I've got nearly 5,000 hours on 747's (mostly with Air Atlanta Icelandic on the Classics) and they impressed me as to how well-built they were. A very good solid machine.
Full blown Brunswick
The animation and cockpit instrument views are amazing! Makes for a riveting retelling of the incident!
Talking about the limits of the airplane, I'm reminded of American Airlines Flight 587 where the first officer used such aggressive rudder control, the vertical stabilizer tore completely off. Apparently AA was partly to blame due to how they, at the time, taught to use the rudder for wake turbulence recovery.
AA = _Alcoholics anonymous...?_ 🍷 🍾 🤪
(My first thought reading your comment, since I don't know anything about aviation at all. I realized my crazy mistake a few seconds later..)
I'm a row 17 seat C type person who most likely will never be a left or right seat flyer.Thank you for your educational feature / benefit way of explaining these cockpit air emergencies. That's why this only plastic wings pilot enjoys your channel so much.
I remember this one.
What I remember from it, the plane went supersonic in the dive and the shock waves are what ripped the tail apart. The wing was bent but still within limits. I thought the pilot lowered the gear as a speed brake, but that does not seem to be the case.
The plane was sold to a church group and flew on for many years. It was recently put up for sale or was repoed or something.
Global Peace Initiative, linked to the Brahmananda Saraswati Foundation. Religious? Yes. Church group? Not quite.
Swami Brahmananda Saraswati (aka Guru Dev) was the Shankaryacharya of the Jyotir Math monastery in Uttrakhand, a state nobody has heard of, that is located right between Uttar Pradesh and Tibet. Guru Dev's most famous disciple in the west was TM founder Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
Over 50 years ago while certifying in the altitude chamber, I learned to ALWAYS trust your instruments. Thank goodness this aircraft wasn't flying at night!
When I moved to Taiwan in 2000 we regarded China Airlines s one of the most dangerous in the world. It's way better now but there were so many accidents with them it was ridiculous. They started hiring foreign pilots in the mid 2000's and finally turned it around
The maintenance in China was another problem, it was shoddy at best.
Leave it to China not to implement proper safety protocols. Everything they make that requires some level of mechanical safety can kill you in China.,
In the 90s we referred to China Airlines as 'Always Crashes'. I worked in Japan and the Japanese would generally refuse to fly them at all. They were notorious for poor maintenance, especially domestically. Like Aeroflot on steroids.
@@littleblackpistol I had an uncle who used to work for aeroflot, the old and the new one that is and I can say those are the truest words ever. Had me giggling into my potato soup.
@@torgejh9189 I know a musician who used to regularly fly to and within Russia for gigs. He and the band started to demand non-Aeroflot flights after one too many hair-raising domestic flights, the worst of which included the outer door being taped shut in front of seated passengers' eyes.
He also knew someone who worked at Shannon airport in Ireland and talked about an African airline whose plane was grounded there after they realised the cargo hold was held together inside using old car licence plates ...
This guy is a walking technical library. Bravo.
Really scary that such a experienced captian was not able to realise the basic physical, thermodynamical reaction in conclusion to the failing 4th engine. But i am proud that the flight engineers build such a big aircraft which is able to sustain not falling apart even with such big g Powers forcing the wings.
I was so relieved this wasn’t a crash. I was invested emotionally haha
Planes are capable of surviving horrific conditions and landing safely. That is so reassuring. I don't have any fear of flying, but I've seen the reaction of passengers when flying through extreme weather or turbulence. I like turbulence on long haul flights as I feel like we are making progress.
AS engineer here, these days we try to build thing a bit more closer to the edge, meaning it won't be over designed like it used to.
But for structural components they are designed to take 2.5 G sustained (something almost never really happen in-flight in turbulences), on top of that safety factor is usually 1.5. that means the plane can take at least 3.75 G load. This must be destructively tested on wings already went though cycle testing, mean a pair of wing will be loaded and unloaded many times, like bending a paper clip. After it passed the cycle testing, it will be loaded to that 3.75 load. If it didn't fail, more load will be put on there untill it breaks. The test is usually done with everyone present (quite impressive to see), including FAA because the 2.5G requirement is written in airworthiness detective, no test, no certificate.
I have a fear of flying, not because I'm afraid that the aircraft will fail, but because the pilots will fail lol! I just have a few drinks beforehand and try to sleep the whole way through.
LOL, I'm like you in that a little light turbulence makes me feel like I'm going down a slightly bumpy road. It almost puts me to sleep!!! XD
@@RemixedVoice Same here 😅 I trust the machine more than the human factor.
No offence to the pilots out there, but I prefer split second decisions being taken by preprogrammed machines where hundreds of brains designed, implemented and tested a gazillion of scenarios over months or years.
For a couple of years I’ve worked on the embedded software for the aircraft’s engine controller and I felt very safe flying (as a passenger) after gaining more knowledge about how everything works, yet I’ve still had fears like: what if the guy is depressed? I know, it’s silly, but it happened before.
@@RemixedVoice Riding with "pilots" like these, you'll definitely want 3 or 4 strong drinks.😱
I’m such a nervous flyer and watching these videos actually really help ease my fear. Thank you 😊
watching planes engines explode calms you down?
@@gamecat2320 😭
I’ve been watching these for the same reason. I’m hoping that more knowledge will calm my fears but I can’t tell if it’s helping or hurting. I have a 17 hour flight in December so we’ll see how it goes lol
@@Art_Vandalay97and how did it go? Your long flight
@@dreamthedream8929 well I lived but the way back was pretty horrifying because there was bad weather in pretty much all of Asia and that midair collision in Japan happened like 2 or 3 days before my flight home so that was fresh in my mind. I’m glad I didn’t let my fear stop me from seeing Asia but I for the foreseeable future all of my travels stateside will be by car or train lol
It should also be noted that the G's taken during spaceflight, especially now with everything being capsules is always Eyeballs In. A position in which you can take mid to high G loading with far less issue. Given this was G force to Feet direction on the 747 incident I bet a few passengers momentary blacked out at 5 G.
Imagine the cabin crew and the passengers at the very tail end of the plane must have felt. 😳😳
@@Mr.Scootini The tail moves about more but I always felt the nose gets the extra Gs as its doing the pitching up whereas the tail needs to go down relative.
@@UKairways G-forces come from acceleration, not movement, so constant rotation only adds centrifugal effects which will be about equal front and back. And if you have considerable rotational acceleration to add on top of the 5Gs due to the wing loading, the frame will definitely give out. So it's likely that the G-forces were fairly evenly distributed, and good thing that.
The place where rotation does make a lot of difference is aerodynamic forces, and a sharp pitching maneuver at high speed can create additional aerodynamic stress on the tail section on top of the high loading due to vertical velocity caused by rotation effectively increasing angle of attack. Which is probably why the wings managed to hold and the horizontal stabilizer didn't. I would also speculate, purely based on the fact that permanent deformation suggests how close they came to the failure point, that maybe losing parts of the elevator helped prevent pitching up even sharper and losing the wings.
Yep. 4 G to 6 G is the blackout point without a G-suit on. It can be even less if you are less healthy and on your body shape. Tall people tend to have problems earlier, but there are a lot of other factors.
@@liam3284 That's all true, but all of these forces are going to be the same across the aircraft. You can decompose the motion into center of mass movement along the arch, which generates most of these 5+ Gs and rotation around center of mass, which is not going to contribute significantly compared to that at any sort of rotation an aircraft is going to survive at these speeds.
I always loved to fly the "queen of the skies", how we used to call the 747. In this particular incident that aircraft showed it was constructed for military use, but I hesitate to think that many planes of today would withstand that kind of punishment.
As to the performance of the flight crew, I'd just love to know what their company decided on them in the aftermath of this flight..
Modern aircraft like the 787 can take higher loads than the older airliners
A lot of parts used to have commercial and military equivalents at Boeing, e.g. the commercial steering yoke/“steering wheel” was of a magnesium alloy, while the military version was of a less-flammable aluminum alloy.
I worked in an area where these parts were machined (1989-1993.)
I'm sure they took a significant hit to their social credit.
Not as much as if they acknowledged the existence of Taiwan, of course. Probably avoided being systematically sterilized in a re-education camp. Probably.
@@ootdega actually, if you paid attention...the flight left from taiwan, this is a hint that if you googled china airlines, you'd find that it is the state owned flag carrier of Taiwan.
So, ya know...they probably do acknowledge the existence of their own country.
@@nanonano2595 well, then they can say goodbye to their organs
Thank you Boeing engineers and factory assemblers. Every rivet mattered here.