This is why my instructor told me to speak up if anything doesn't feel right. "You're not a pilot yet, but if you ever feel like anything is unsafe or going wrong, speak up. You might notice something I don't." I always appreciated how my instructors always taught us to question everything. "If something doesn't look right, it isn't right. A go-around is free, sticking to it is the most expensive mistake you can make that has been commonly paid in blood."
First Officer's wife here. Sitting on jump seat behind Captain. Quiet as a church mouse. Listening on headset coming south down Long Island. Told cleared to land in pouring rain no sight of airfield. Hubby: "negative." Started banking to take the turn North. Crew looking out of window to the right; no airport in sight. For some reason I stopped looking out to the right and looked to my left. SHOCK HORROR another a/c alongside and mirroring our actions. Both a/c sinking. This was a 747:200 with engineer. I waved at him and pointed out the window. He unbuckled to see what I was indicating ... and spoke up. Later...in the bar...Engineer tells me that they reported this near-miss, hubby stating that the Engineer noticed the a/c. "No, Peter. It was your wife! "
surely the most logical action on this landing would have been to divert to the other airport. They fueled up well for this possibility, but did not use it.
A go around isn't "free" as such, since it will use a bunch of fuel... But compared to death and the aircraft destroyed, I guess it's awful close to free.
I certainly agree with the finding that the First Officer's fatigue was likely a factor. When I finally got a CPAP for sleep apnea I soon noticed that when I was driving I seemed to have a remarkable sense of traffic around me. In reality, it was normal situational awareness after years of driving in a fog. The devil of it is that it is hard to know when our awareness fades. Now I don't even take a short nap without it.
@@crimony3054 "All the blame goes to this one cause" is a classic safety error. Which is why you _never_ see that in an NTSB report, but only in RUclips comments.
@@crimony3054 If the FO hadn't needed it, it would not have been prescribed. Compounding that was his partial recovery from flu and abbreviated sleep time. How much difference it made is uncertain, but it would be unreasonable to rule it out as a contributing factor without more info. Unless I missed something, the FO was Pilot Flying 7:16. The Captain was Pilot Monitoring.
Lack of CPAP when required reduces the quality of restorative sleep. It is amazing that is was not mandated for this pilot. It's like driving without your glasses.
Formally an educational video about good practices and positive reinforcement for good performance on the pilots' part, and also teasing the youtube audience's morbid curiosity. I'd love it
I used to joke I liked to fly this aircraft because I'm not lucky enough to become famous as the first fatality so it must be perfectly safe. That and I like puddle jumpers because you actually get to feel like you're flying.
@@forceawakens4449 Jumbo jets are luxurious and comfortable but so boring! Wouldn't even know you were flying if you didn't look out the window every now and then.
I wouldn't say these pilots are perfect, no pilots are, but I definitely wouldn't blame them completely for what happened here though we all know they could do better next time. (maybe you're talking about other pilots who have flown this plane horribly idk)
I wouldn't say these pilots are perfect, no pilots are, but I definitely wouldn't blame them completely for what happened here though we all know they could do better next time. (maybe you're talking about other pilots who have flown this plane horribly idk)
I worked in Law Enforcement (US). I love how you address company culture and root cause in your videos. I think LE could take a lot of good points away from aircraft incident investigations and regulations. An example is rest or down time. The department I worked for only required 8 hours between shifts. That is 8 hours from end to finish. There were times working a late shift that I would have to work 8, off 8, work 8, off 8, work 8 just to attend daytime training. Upper management never had to do this. There was a "we did our time, now you do yours" attitude. It created an unsafe environment. Armed officers driving around after days of inadequate sleep. I wish law enforcement in the US was as regulated as the airline industry. The only way it is really scrutinized is regarding racism and profiling. Yes that is important, but, like a pilot worked or stressed too hard with not enough rest, incidents are more likely to happen.
The railroad is the same way regarding rest. You get 8 hours of rest and it begins when you clock out. I had a two hour drive after clocking out, so now I am down to 6 hours of rest but they would give me a 2 hour call to get back to work which cuts rest down to 4 hours because I had to leave immediately when my call was received. I was low on Seniority so I didn't know where to move my family to. Sometimes I would drive 2 hours east to work and other times it was 2.5 hours north which made it stressful because was already half hour late for work when they would do this to me. The crew was always mad when I showed up and they were also rushed to leave which made it unsafe. I no longer work in the industry.
In every episode, Petter does 'absolutely fantastic' emphasizing lessons to be learned. These lessons are not just for those in aviation. They apply to all aspects of life. I've recommended Petter's channel(s) to family members and friends for this reason, in addition to the compelling and entertaining way that Petter relates -- he creates suspense, maintains a respectful attitude toward all, and injects an element of humor when appropriate. Also, he's just an over-all nice guy and family man that I would love to have as my next-door neighbor. I've watched the production values of Mentour Pilot improve steadily over the years. I miss the old days, though, when one could count on unscripted appearances and antics by the pups on the black couch with the red and green pillows. I hope our furry friends are doing well.
@Lawrence Jordan, I agree with everything you said, and will add that he somehow creates the impression that he is telling me the story - just me, one-on-one, sitting in the living room or perhaps by the fireplace at the pub. It doesn't feel like a video created for thousands of viewers - it feels much more personal than that.
As a EMB145 maintenance technician, I think the aircraft handled this accident like a champ. The gear sheared off as designed, but didn't quite end up fully departing the airplane. The nose absorbed the impact softening the shock to the passengers and crew. All in all I think the airplane did a fantastic job. It's just sad that we lost an XR, those are the pinnacle of 145's.
@@dann5480 unnecessary, rude, bigoted comment. Were you an engineer you’d know technicians have far better knowledge of what to actually do in emergencies while engineers (me included) have a tendency to be lost (pun intended) in the clouds of theory. Ill add that your comment shows a shameful lack of class. Distasteful.
Indeed. The best part of this accident: Nobody was killed and nobody was seriously injured - and the Passengers were at their planned destionation, too.
It's really nice when everyone survives. Digging out a trench in the snow was an extra nice touch. I think I love these stories so much because half the time they're just about members of human society helping out other members of human society.
I mean it's not really a "touch", a lot of passengers just literally physically couldn't pass 5 foot snow and would have been trapped until they had done that.
A friend of mine who used to fly F/16s for Royal Jordanian Air Force once told me about an accident where the aircraft lost its wing upon takeoff and pilot was killed just because the previous pilot had over-G the jet and didn’t report it. Lesson, If you see anything unusual report it because you saw it but the other person may not be able to see to.
In russia, if you break something, you have to pay for it with your own money. I remember reading last year about young russian military pilot who unintentionally tailstriked training aircraft on landing. After that he was expelled from army and the court imposed him to pay for all the damages many millions of rubles. Basically he will have to pay the rest of his life for one small mistake.
@@cdjxwubcyex wow many thanks to that guy for the damage! and btw, nobody from third-world countries with poor aviation regulations is watching so not that it would change much for them anyway. but if they try to, they may as well end up treated like that pro russian pilot(thanks again, maybe someone in this world has life spared thanks to his mistake).
Part of the problem is that it can be difficult to take responsibility and report such a thing, especially in countries where you would get all the blame and then get fired. At least that was a problem in the past in some Middle Eastern countries. And I'm not trying to be negative, it's just what aviation professionals in the region have told me.
Great work Mentour Pilot. This video is very impressive! A "must watch" to all pilots out there. As an EMB135/145 Captain flying in Europe this video is even more relevant. The funny thing is, I found your video 1 day after filing an Occurrence-Report on a VOR approach into Thessaloniki with almost the exact same problem. Luckily the weather was not so bad so we had good reference with the runway well above minimums and corrected for the off-track. As a pilot I know it sure is hard to overcome the "Confirmation Bias" when your instruments are telling you something different from reality and with the words "trust-your-instruments" ringing in the back of your mind. It happens to the best, never say never. Thanks fellow aviator/colleague of the skies.
I work at a large aviation repair facility and often pass along important suggestions about safety that I learn here. Who knows who may be having a bad day or because someone is new and in training. Often I followup with the question, "Would you feel safe to fly on the plane that you were a part of repairing?" We now have a suggestion box to improve safety and award workers for going above and beyond. I'm going to suggest watching some of these videos that are shorter. If someone on the FPI line rejects a blade with a hairline crack and prevents a tragedy then this channel will have more impact than anyone would ever know. Great job! Final comment, if you see something wrong - say something. There's no points for being quiet.
It can actually backfire. Suppose if a passenger have some suspicion about something and tell crew about it and crew find it to be false that may put passenger in a very bad legal case.
When I was doing my flight training, I was also working assisting on medivac flights. Knowing I was doing flight training, I was treated as a second officer type role - having my head in the flight at most times - even though I wasn't flying or part of the operating crew. I was included in the briefings before flights and during the flight itself - and the golden rule said specifically to me was "Just because you might think you're not qualified, if you ever see something that seems out of place, make sure you speak up and tell us. We'd rather confirm something isn't a problem than not notice a problem." One flight, when I was getting more familiar with the aircraft systems, I noticed that on a long flight over the ocean, that the fuel remaining estimate was about 1hr less than the flight duration. I mentioned this just after we came out of the 10,000ft sterile phase of flight and got a reply of "That's fine, we'll discuss it when we get to the cruise altitude". A bit later on in the flight, it was explained to me that the fuel computer only uses instantaneous fuel burn to calculate the time remaining, and was shown that now we were in the cruise stage of flight with a much lower fuel burn than the climb, we had at least 2 hours beyond the flight time of fuel onboard. This might sound simple, and routine, and like a rookie mistake - but the captain told me I did well to spot it - and that it was better to point it out and get a proper explanation than ignore it and nobody notices a mistake that would have caused us to have to ditch in the ocean. This is the perfect culture to foster in aviation - and should be encouraged no matter what type of flying you do. The realisation that aviation got this culture embedded into it from people not saying things and dying should be a sobering reminder of why things are the way they are.
I am not in the aviation industry. I remember there was an Airbus having a fuel leak but the crew opened the common fuel valve connecting the fuel tanks according to the manual. It was very lucky that it glided to land safely in an island that had the long enough airfield. I felt guilty as I had a chance to bring up this questionable, if not incorrect abnormal operating procedure, i.e. open the fuel common valve under this kind of situation. Also wondering why the computer did not alarm the crew that the fuel amount remain onboard was not enough for the remaining of the trip.
Many years ago when I was in flight school we were told that at the airlines the Captian was the boss and his word was law, and everyone else was to sit down and shut up. Then we studied wreaks that happened because the Captain refused to listen to the co pilot's concerns. Watching Petter and Kelsey, I am glad to see how that has changed.
@@d2009wong I don't understand your comment. Are you saying that you were on the flight in question, presumably seated in the cockpit for some reason, even though you're not in the aviation industry? If you were not in the cockpit, how would you have been able to observe the pilots performing the procedure that worried you, and that you said you had a chance to question, but did not? And if you weren't there in the cockpit to observe the procedure and to fail to question it, why would you feel guilty?
@@leisti I have been working in the marine commercial shipping industry for decades. Although in the mid-seventies there were some unattended machinery space ship designs, I imagine that the aviation standards were much higher. I worked on the Boeing Jetfoil in the eighties. Simply put, it is an advanced hydrofoil vessel adopting some airplane flight control surfaces system and a split-bus electrical system for normal operation. The operation manual was an eye opener for me. The abnormal operation procedure regarding tank level low alarm (including fuel tank and hydraulic tank) was to open the common valve. It didn't make sense to me, I think it was "wrong". I thought about bringing it up but didn't as I thought no one would listen to me. Years later, I watched in TV one of the Mayday episodes about an Airbus experienced a fuel leak (due to a wrong size fuel line clamp). The crew opened the common valve of the fuel tanks, following the manual's abnormal operation procedure (same as I had on the Boeing Jetfoil). Later all fuel tanks had low level and then all engines stopped working. Airbus amended this procedure after the incident. Luckily that plane landed without any injuries. I always wonder if it would make any difference had I brought it up then. I am glad that nowadays the standards in marine industry are getting higher and I would speak up for things that can help. Like for passenger ships, the regulation should require that a split bus electrical system for the normal operation. Similarly, if the rudder is so crucial for an airplane, why most of the commercial passenger airplanes are not of the twin tail/twin rudder design?
From the post-accident photos, it appears to me that the 5' of snow may have actually helped the aircraft come to a somewhat stable stop on the infield.
@@dominicklavarco6206 Well it's probably more apt to say the lack of effective mitigation measures for said snow was the root cause of the malfunction, being that the snow which stopped the plane was separate from the snow causing the equipment malfunction... However the irony in the situation isn't lost on me.
This is why it is important to report issues no matter how small they seam. I am guilty of not raising issues with higher ups because 'they have enough to deal with' but now i see that a repot could be the difference between life and death
Great summary Petter. As a retired heavy jet captain this one makes me wince 😢, not good. It was a completely avoidable accident. I TOTALLY agree with your summation and how essential it is to 1. Follow procedures including go- around requirements to the letter and 2. Report things that seem unusual or wrong.
Shout out to the snow clearing crew here too. Not usually what you think of as an emergency responder. But when you have 5 feet of snow on the ground, and something off-runway, they have to get it done first for anyone else to do anything.
I thought that was pretty impressive as well. I dislike shoveling my driveway; these guys shoveled (with power tools, I'm sure) all the way to a crash site. Incredible work.
I love how Petter really highlights how important it is to follow operating procedures in high risk, high stress operations and his advice can be adapted to so many occupations... I learn so much valuable information from his work. I've spent a large part of my working life working in large mining operations as a drill and blast technician and shot crew foreman and I always drill into my crews (no pun intended) that the only bad emergency call or shutdown of a machine when a hazard was detected is the one that wasn't called. I will never, ever chastise any member of any crew, no matter how low on the totem pole they may be, for identifying what they perceive as a hazard and stopping the machine they're on or calling "emergency, emergency, emergency" over the radios and stopping the entire site. In our line of work, there are plenty of situations we are in every single day that do not have the option of a go around. Although our procedures make things relatively safe nowadays, when things do go wrong, they go catastrophically wrong and there's a hundred different ways to end up as a thin veneer spread across the work site. Call the emergency first, no matter what you think the reason may have been and if you're unsure of what you're doing, or if it doesn't look quite right, then always stop and get someone more senior to check it out and if they're unsure they'll grab someone like me to make sure everything is kosher. Just like those pilots with the "sterile environment" we have times where the shot is tied in, ready to fire, when we have similar, very strict rules about who can and can't be anywhere near it. We have procedures in place, as tedious as they can be, for very good reasons and the sites are only as safe as they are thanks to a long line of tragedy that has taught us what those procedures need to be. Not following the procedures on my shot crews is a real good way to get your arse fired immediately too.
This reminds me of the quote I saw in the comments section of another one of your videos. I don't know who said it. But something along the lines of "every landing approach is a go-around, with the option to land". I like that.
I've always wondered how the making of this excellent channel has influenced Petter's own actions in the cockpit. It's like having his own permanently ongoing safety training. I am sure he is one of the safest pilots out there as he is constantly reminded and super aware of all the things that can go wrong. (and, well, he is a Swede) 😁
I hate to fly, as in I need meds to do it, and as a result, have only flown TWICE (there and back) in the last 20 years. Been watching your videos for a while, and I’ve learned so much! Next opportunity to fly somewhere, I’m going! Just seeing the depth and breadth of what goes into safety has truly helped. These videos are amazing!!
I had a first career in General Aviation (avionics tech) for 14 years followed by 34 years in a major electric utility. I was amazed how much more safety emphasis there was in the electric power industry than in general aviation. In GA I knew about one person per year who died as a result of flight accidents; in the electric industry I didn't know any in more than three decades. As you say: "safety culture" - that unblinking awareness of hazards - makes a critical difference.
@@flagmichael If "electric industry" includes all certified electric technicians, I suspect there are far more deaths in the industry due to electrocution than you are aware of.
I'm a Maine resident and remember this incident being reported in the local press, but no one ever followed up on it. Very interesting, and frightening, that these pilots would continue landing without being able to see the runway.
One of the shortcomings of our human thought processes is that if two people are seeing the same things, and each is 50% sure of what they are seeing, we tend to combine those to be 100% certain - especially if it is what we want to see.
Another interesting incident Petter and how different things could’ve played out if the ILS incident was reported those few days earlier. Very fortunate everyone walked away from it. Kudos to the Mentour Pilot team, the quality increases with every video ❤
@@MentourPilot I still can't understand why the pilots didn't report the anomaly. Whether it was being caused by a fault on the ground or a fault on the plane it seems (to my ignorant mind) important to log.
@@kjh23gk normalization of deviance. The fleet was old, and it was not uncommon to get sporadic, erratic localizer indications, one leg might have the FD going nuts trying to track a loc dancing left and right going into EWR on a sunny day, only to settle down inside the marker. Next leg, same plane, rock steady going into BUF in a snowstorm. Crew ahead and behind didn't have issues, and mx couldn't find anything with the airplane. This was a daily occurrence at the time. Operation also flew into many airports where this was a known issue, and NOTAM'd as such, or smaller airports with a localizer offset 1-3º The crews that DID notice this likely disregarded it as "one of those things" you saw when doing 3-5 legs a day to small airports in 25 year old airplanes. Another factor was the ops tempo and workload. Many times, by the time this discrepancy was noted by the flight crew, they weren't even talking to Boston anymore, and had been handed off to CTAF. Crew is now trying to fit into GA traffic at a small airport, land, exit, cancel with Boston on the ground, park, and turn the airplane for the outbound flight, then fly 4 more legs that day before getting to the hotel. It wouldn't surprise me if a few crews noticed it, and forgot about it by the time they were even in a position to file a report.
My job has nothing to do with aviation, but these videos remind me what true professionalism is about. You're making world better in ways you probably can't imagine :-)
So true, no matter which job, is it cleaning room or sewers, is it garbage collection, is it coding, is it any blue colour job. Professionalism is super important!
I remember a passenger on that Aloha Airlines 737 that lost part of its roof noticed cracks in the skin of the plane as she boarded and at first wanted to say something but then decided not to, assuming the crew knew about the cracks and would not fly if it wasn't safe.
Just in general, if you see something that doesn't look right, say something. Maybe it's not important, and maybe they already know, but maybe not... and it might end up saving lives. Don't be afraid to say something out of fear of embarrassment.
@@troodon1096 Can't agree more. If nothing else, the flight crew can assure you. Those guys see nervous flyers all the time. Most are happy to reduce that tension for their passengers.
There was another flight where left engine was spitting fire and smoking, but no passengers reported it as pilots mentioned on PA that the RIGHT engine was failing. If the passengers would have picked up on it and notified cabin crew about the LEFT engine, that incident could have been avoided as well.
This is a really good counterpoint to the previous video where the pilots refused to believe their instruments! As always thank you for the care you take to tell these stories well.
I love that the takeaways from those accidents aren't phrased just to other pilots but to everybody watching, I truly think everybody can take something away from those videos not just people in aviation.
The first approach where they barely missed that tower should have set off major alarm bells in both pilots - you just should not encounter an obstruction like that if you are lined up with the runway. Pilots are trained to believe their instruments, but this extreme anomaly must override that training and cause a reset - the instruments aren't ALWAYS right.
ILS localizer and glideslope have monitoring systems, separate little antennas called near field monitors that check the parameters to detect problems like this but seems like noone got the warning. With towered airports the ILS panel in the tower also shows these warnings. I worked on ILS maintenance for 5 years. The glideslope is insanely sensitive to ground conditions, even the grass has to be kept at certain heigth near the antenna because it uses ground reflection to form the 3 degree "beam". Localizer usually does not complain about the ground in front of the antennas, but yeah 5ft of snow did it. My airport never got more than 2 ft of snow
The closest untowered airport to where I live only has a grass runway, no lights, no ILS and is only open to general aviation. Never would I have thought that there could be untowered international airports.
@@psirvent8 I think KPQI is only technically a international airport, there are no regular flights to Canada, but you can check through for international GA ferry flights and such... technically, I think there are airports which are a dirt strip and are yet occasionally used as international... Bara having a flight to Ireland once in a blue moon being the example I can immediately think of
@@psirvent8 "International" is a generous self-description of Presque Isle. It's pretty typical for a small GA field, but definitely not what would normally be considered an "international" airport in the sense of having scheduled international airline flights. You can probably get international air taxi operations from there just because it's so close to Canada (only about 75 miles,) but the whole airport only averages 20 flight operations per day with only 3 of those being commercial and those all being domestic, specifically, that flight to Newark and formerly one to IAD in Washington. It was formerly called Northern Maine Regional Airport, which seems like a much more reasonable name. Some airport names have really gotten ridiculous. Like "Music City Executive Airport," which isn't in Music City (i.e. Nashville) or even in the same county. It's in Gallatin, about a 40-minute drive from Nashville... which already has both a GA reliever airport and a major international airport that are much closer than the self-described "executive" one. At least that one isn't nearly as egregious as "Orlando-Melbourne International Airport," which is in Melbourne, FL, more than a hour from downtown Orlando and nearly an hour and a half to Disney World (where most of the tourists to Orlando are going.)
Cool video. I worked in forestry for 20 yrs and introduction of hazard and incident reporting prevented many injuries and saved a few lives. Thanks for highlighting this.
Fantastic episode! They are very valuable for us GA-pilots. To be reminded of the basic principles, such as always seeing the go-around as the main plan and the perfect landing as a bonus if everything is as it should!
I live in Presque Isle. Despite being a "small" airport it was built by the military for large bombers, so it has more capacity and capability than it's size and location would indicate. It was the predecessor to Loring AFB that housed the B52 and B1B bomber wings during the end of the cold war. Also, thanks for the proper enunciation. 99% of Americans can't pronounce our name to save their lives.
@@juanwhick1691 there are a few others in the states as well. I mean, considering what the words mean I am not surprised it was a common place name for french speaking locals.
The real Kamikoto knife company of Japan is not associated with the Kamikoto company advertised here. The Japanese company only supplies to the Japanese domestic market and uses folded steel. The KK advertised here is a Chinese company which uses stamped steel which is not folded - it has nothing to do with the Japanese company.
They go blunt quick due to soft steel but he dont mention the folded steel part and such.. so its not missinformation in that way. I have seen worse claims when it comes to mobile games.
@@douglaswatters7303 From what I've seen, These Chinese knives are more expensive than the real deal, which confuses me. A proper quality Japanese Chef's knife isn't that expensive in Japan. Around 80-100USD. I have one for 10 years and it has no nicks and cuts.
I love that you do a full range of events, from incidents not considered newsworthy to catastrophes that are still remembered decades later. So much to learn!
I'm so mad you made me wait 2 weeks and I am so thrilled to see this upload. I had a shitty day today and this is going to make it so much better. Thank you so much. We love you!
I can't believe I haven't watched this video before today. I knew and loved that very plane when I flew it at XJT - I was a check pilot there for 20 years. We had a "no fault" go around policy. And I used to fly Metroliners into PQI in the early 1990s. Thanks for the video.
Thank you Petter for this great report. I have much experience flying into PQI in a Saab 340. This airport can be a real challenge in the winter. One challenge is the lack of chemical being put on the runway most likely due to budget constraints. PQI is a Essential Air Service route and is only serviced by one airline. The operations crews would only scrap the runway to clear snow, but many times it was white as could be and hard to distinguish from other terrain.
This video got me thinking a lot about the challenges pilots must face here where I live, which is in the nothern Canadian prairies. There are International airports here, in the larger cities. We have like six months of winter. -40 is a normal temp. There are times where you can look out the window, and struggle to see the house across the street. Even driving here in winter is crazy. Not so much in the cities, but on the highways, if it's snowing and there's any wind, everything is just white white white. A car could be three feet in front of you, and you wouldn't know. We call it a white-out. A blizzard is even worse, but it doesn't have to be a full-blown blizzard in order to cause a white-out, or visibility issues. I think about the amount of accidents, injuries, and deaths that are caused just by driving a car here in winter, and I wonder about how much more difficult pilots must have here during our long winters.
Excellent breakdown. As someone whose extent of knowledge of aviation is watching Air Crash Investigation/Mayday, your ability to use your professional knowledge to breakdown complex accident sequences and convert the aviation jargon into layman’s terms is something that I find very educational and admire. It is an important skill I am still trying to perfect as a law student (I’ll always remember when my father had an issue with his driver’s licence and the lawyer we consulted said “we can try for a section 10” with no explanation of what a section 10 was. I had to look it up online after the consultation). Clearly here there wasn’t an A+ crew in the cockpit, but what stunned me was that the First Officer was expecting the issue, yet he was still fooled by it. Unbelievable.
Close observation shows that the green/pink line hiccup never occurred. Was the GPS signal so weak that the avionics disregarded that input. Yes, the crew made some human errors, but the First Officer did what the Captain told him to do. I don't see how anyone can say his actions were unbelievable or foolish.
@@gerhardlangguth3931 The first officer was flying a green needle approach (Localizer/ILS) and wouldn't have been able to see the GPS guidance and realize that there was a discrepancy. If they had concerns about this (which they should have since it was discussed at the start of the flight) they should have had the pilot not flying (the captain in this case) monitoring the GPS needles to ensure that the two systems were giving the same course guidance. If the two systems weren't showing the same guidance indications that would have required a go-around since the crew has no way to know which signal is correct (GPS or Localizer). Also, the first officer should know the rules regarding when a go-around is required as well as the captain and when they reached minimums without the pilot flying seeing the runway he should have initiated a go-around. Either pilot is absolutely empowered/required to abort a landing approach at any time they feel something is wrong and in this case neither pilot did.
@@jeffreyleftovers You kicked yourself off the A team by your insistence (2nd attempt I noticed) on getting an unnecessary and unprofessional dig into the Captain that does nothing to further aviation safety. If you had concerns about the pilot's performance you were required to report them via channels that would be far more useful than a petulant comment on RUclips.
Fantastic video. Good analysis. There was a lot of caution flying into that airport. 3 months prior, the runway maintenance crew improperly report braking action which almost caused a runway excursion. Greatly increased runway performance buffers and alternate rules came from that. Also got the feds involved. I was unaware of the loc antenna clearance rules and their changes. That was very interesting to hear. But with the weather, snow removal challenges, and a weaker captain it lined up all the cheese. Fortunate no one was injured.
When I first heard of the incident that afternoon, I assumed it was an excursion because of previous runway reports being greatly inaccurate. I’ll admit I didn’t have to check to see who the captain was….
Thank You Peter / Mentour Pilot Team. The amount of information packed into this video is excellent. A very thorough overview. Thank you for sharing the story. The essential nature of reporting and the responsibility of all to do this is a great take away. Thank you again!
Absolutely fantastic episode, as always. As someone who also has a CPAP machine, I can't stress the importance of using it enough. I'm totally exhausted if I don't.
Like a driving requirement for wearing glasses, or a diabetic being responsible for their glucose level, every CPAP user with a high level job like pilot needs to be considered under-rested if they failed to use it. Reinforcement is tough, but I know if my wife for whatever reason can't use hers she can be severely impaired even after 8 hrs 'sleep'
@@markdoldon8852 Not just high-stress jobs. Simply driving a vehicle with untreated sleep apnea can significantly increase your risk of accidents and people have had their licenses removed if they refuse to treat their sleep apnea. I have central sleep apnea as a result of ongoing neurological illness (so no magic cure for me with CPAP, sadly) and even just staying awake to finish something as simple as a row of knitting or typing a sentence into chat can prove impossible at times, and lead to all kinds of screw-ups. I dread to think what a danger I would be to myself if I wasn't already bedbound. by my neurological issues. Even something like making a cup of tea can be dangerous if you're that drowsy and/or foggy.
It was very uplifting to watch an episode without casualties. Your graphics are awesome! It must be much work in producing a video as this only on graphics. And it is done superb.
Your videos are incredible. You not only explain the error responsible for accidents but also point out the amazing effort by the entire crew to prevent such accidents. I have much respect for the meticulous effort that you put into these videos. Very well done sir !!!
@Mentour Pilot Great channel and content. I am a retired CPL (ATPL) from CYXE. I appreciate the level of knowledge you possess, and your explanation of each accident and sequence leading up to it. I have been binge watching your content for 2 days now. Keep up the great work. New subscriber. Fly safe as always.
Great analysis. Really intriguing accident, which I had always thought was a case of the a/c skidding off the runway until now (I remember seeing a photo of one of the main gear lodged in the left engine intake). Also a big relief that no one was seriously injured or killed. Interesting that they saw something very wrong (tower) with the first approach and decided to go around, and then saw the same again with the second approach but elected to try and "salvage" the approach and landing.
Thank you so much for creating these and breaking them down in as much detail as you do. Learn from someone else's mistakes so you don't have to figure out those lessons yourself the hard way.
Thanks to these videos, I got well aware of confirmation bias. But even then, I've been in several situations (just as a pedestrian) when it was not clear if I was really where I thought I was, and, actively considering being victim of confirmation bias, it still took me an awfully long time and a ton of evidence to realize that I was wrong. It's insidious!
Production quality of Mentour's videos these days are at another level and always improving. Particularly the preamble, segmentation and narration of air accident investigation videos are awesome. And the graphics, captions, etc are so brilliant!
The lesson about not expecting everyone else to do the reporting when something isn't right is important to remember regardless of our occupation. Hopefully, the pilots who didn't think it was important to report the anomaly with the ILS and only reported it after the incident will never abrogate that responsibility again. At least this time, the lesson was not written in blood. (Not that I fault the pilots, not when everyday life is filled with examples of anyone doing the same kind of thing.)
A certain level of blame must be attributed to those others who flew in earlier, noticed the issue and failed to make a report... the system fails when EVERYONE doesn't do their job to the letter... thankfully, no deaths today... 😕
Some people in the FAA thought they was a issue on the system because of the snow, but was always shoot down. Also it not that unusual for landing lights at some small airport to be broken.
Damn right and would have produced a NOTAM about it. The F/O should have officially noted the scrambled lines on his instrumentation on previous flight and then problem solved it or at least properly prepared for it in the pre flight briefing I am a construction manager and far too many risky tasks go ahead with no briefing at all
These accidents usually happen very quickly, with long discussions between seconds of events. Seeing them enacted in real time, maybe at the end, is a big "ask", but could be fascinating. In any case, thanks for these videos.
Thank you for this video. I'm currently dealing with anxiety due to having needed to submit an OH&S report on a workplace that I was recently employed at. I spoke up, even though it related to a short term work contract, even when doing so made me extremely anxious as it may well impact future opportunities. Reminding us that if not one speaks up the conditions for workplace errors/injuries remain unaddressed is something I needed to hear, today.
Wish the USA railroads would start taking safety seriously. They want 1 man crews and still don’t give their employees sick time., let alone a schedule of any kind. I was a locomotive engineer/conductor for 15yrs and finally left the industry due to safety, quality of life and treatment by management. Always like your videos because it’s about safety and not money.
I used to live near Presque Isle and it could easily snow 5 or 6 feet (2 meters) in one night. Everyone has a door on the upper floor of the house with no stairs so you can get in after a heavy snow when there is 15 feet of snow next to the house. And they call Maine Vacationland.
Another nice video from Mentour Pilot! It is tempting to confirm that you see what you want to see. On the end of a sailing trip with poor visibility it was difficult to see the entrance markers of the harbour. I asked the helmsman if she actually saw the markers and she confirmed that she did see them. I didn't, so I asked again if she saw a green and a red buoy or light. Yes, can't you see 'm too? Anyway, I had a closer look at the chart-plotter (which was inside the boat) and concluded that we where heading for a mooring dock and the person at the helm had interpreted the bollards on it as the markers we were desperately looking for... The dock was protected by a stone jetty on the seaside that would have ended our sailing trip in a disastrous way.... Conclusion: Do not try to use false reasoning to make you think that you are in a better position than you actually are. See f.i. the "Deepwater Horizon" incident where measurement data were wrongly interpreted by the experienced people involved. They wanted to see 'good results' (finding oil, finding the runway to land on...) leading to a major environmental disaster.....
So surprised and happy to hear all were ok. A really great example of an A+ video. Informative, entertaining, perfectly edited and the story delivered perfectly. When I sit down next (in the Capt’s seat) I will remember this lesson learned today……. As I run from security. I never said I was a Captain. Great channel.
The thing that makes Petter special is he doesn’t speculate, and doesn’t throw blame around, but instead focuses on how we can all learn and improve. If I had my life to do over again, despite my success, I’d have rather been a pilot, and I’d have loved to have had Petter as a trainer (if I wasn’t quite a bit older than him).
Another great analysis! May I request Comair 5191 for a future video? I started at Comair on the 1 year anniversary of the accident and the CEO brought it up during a quick speech at our orientation. Since then, I’ve always been particularly interested in that accident
@Kyle Damon - start with pilots in a rush, plus runway lights out of commission; add in confirmation bias, then mix with an understaffed control tower whose only ATC had all of 5 hours of sleep the night before. The FO, who was pilot flying, made a mistake. But the entire safety system failed.
@@captaincurle4529 Petter's insight is always educational. I lived in Cincinnati when this happened. Cinci was Comair's headquarters and I had several friends who were pilots and FAs. It was a long 12-24 hours waiting, calling people to find out who we had lost. The FAA and NTSB also staged through our airport. I followed this investigation very closely from beginning to end.
Petter I love these accident analysis videos! I would love to see a video on the PSA 182 accident! That image of the 727 going down with it's wing on fire is both amazing and hauntingly terrifying!
Thank you Mentour Pilot for all these great content! For me as an ATPL student this channel is a very good / the best possibility to learn about failures from other guys. happy landings!
Thank you for another Great video , good information . Wow your son is growing since last time i saw him on your video , smile you will live thru the teenage years , i survived 3 of them . Be safe Mentour Pilot and family .
I recently discovered this channel. I have to say, for the kind of high resolution information I prefer when learning about this kind of stuff, this channel is definitely a step up from 74 Gear.
I watch both and they both do things a little bit differently. Like Kelsey mostly does cargo on a 747, where as Petter does short trips on medium sized passenger aircraft. Petter is also a line training captin and he speaks fluent English (which is the language of the sky. English is also used for ships and pretty much everything else. Similar subject, but GMT Greenwich Mean Time) is used for the ISS.
One is a reaction to videos, movies and the like. The other makes analysis. Both are good at what they do. But 74 Gear also doesn't aim to do what Petter does, so it's not comparable. A pear doesn't fail at being an apple because it doesn't try to be an apple. Both fruit and good in their own way.
@@JBAutomotive794 Was the water bubbly and full of suds? I don't care about this guy's channel sponsors LOL. If they are responsible for the high resolution instrument displays and detail, don't you think it was worth it even if his sponsor is Chinese and likes to take a dip in the hot tub?
I was into a conversation recently on your NOW! channel where we discussed various aviation channels. Yours wasn’t the first I ran into and started to follow, but just a few days ago there was a new video out from the first channel I was watching and I was so disappointed that I lacked all the details, all the background stories and the in-depth info that just someone with tons of inside info like you have. Watching nice animations isn’t enough if there’s no story behind it, but you do give us “the full monty”. I will not hint what accident was “covered” but I do hope it will end up on your channel.
I like that you highlighted “Confirmation Bias”. People do not realize how often it affects our lives on a daily basis. I’m very surprised that the first officer, after mentioning it to the Captain, then completely forgot about the inaccurate ILS beacon! It never seemed to enter his mind, even after nearly hitting the wind tower the first time! I would think it would be the first thing he would think about after almost hitting the tower…. Strange. Perhaps he really was fatigued, or maybe just really shaken up after the near miss.
I've got a bit addicted to watching these, despite not being a pilot or in aviation. The main thing I've learnt is that I would not be cut out to be a pilot of a commercial aircraft.
This is the most frightening one I've watched for a while. Because it shows that even with all of those safety processes in place, poor decision making by flawed human beings can undo it all. It made my blood run cold that they went in for the same landing a second time after narrowly avoiding the tower the first time. I appreciate these incidents are rare, and I'm glad these incidents are examined honestly and lessons learned where possible.
Another great episode. To the persons doing the visuals now, well done, watching evolution of this channels presentation has been fun, and they were done so well in this episode I didn't even notice how crappy the snow effects were!!. Love first person head animations we're doing now with the narration, good stuff, thanks team.
You do such an amazing job of putting all these videos together in such clear and concise ways that even make sense to non pilots like myself! I don't know how you find time and energy to do these but they can't help but improve safety awareness for everyone! Great job Mentour Pilot!!! 👏 Thank you sir!
Halfway through the video I was afraid there was loss of life. So relieved when it turned out no one had perished... Plane was a complete writeoff, I would imagine.
I used to be an FA on the ERJ145, it was a great little workhorse but man did some passengers freak out when they stepped inside and saw how tiny it was. Being that there's only 1 flight attendant on that type of aircraft, there is a little extra feeling of responsibility since it's only you back there. If anything goes wrong there's up to 50 people staring at you looking for reassurance.
I must say I allways enjoy your content. Even tough I have nothing to do with aviation, but your skill to explain stuff to people is just amazing. Best wishes from Germany. PS: Another interesting crash to look at in my option would be the Lübeck Air Disaster (Travel Air Accident) because the copilot that was involved in the crash already survived a crash on the German motorway years before (Paninternational Flight 112) and was one of the first female German pilots.
Oh yes, wasn’t she the first female in Germany to become a commercial pilot? If I recall she was the one who managed to get the stricken BAC-111 onto the highway after it was found the ground crew mistakenly put kerosene instead of water in the engine injection tank (water injection being commonly used to boost engine thrust in the days of low-bypass turbofans). It’s a fascinating pair of stories!
That does sound interesting! Petter is especially good at piecing together the factors that led to accidents, and a second accident would be a rich field for him.
I love this channel!! Your technical explanations are fantastic, but the real gem is how you are able to weave it together with the human/communication side... even most technical errors in the end seem to be communciation-based (including corrupt practices and cultures where deference is a thing), such as the Royal Air Maroc one where they weren't recording technical failures properly and the maintenance crews were unable to locate the exact cause of the malfunctions.
Some localisers have a Far Field Monitor that monitors the signal prior to the threshold. If the FF monitor sees the signal as offset by a certain margin, it'll first give a warning and the worse the margin it'll shut down the localiser. But I believe that's system dependant.
Hey man! I’ve been on a binge with your videos after finding your channel a few days ago. I love your content, it is really great and you navigate tragic events respectfully. I love hearing professionals talk about their craft! I have always loved documentaries on aviation but yours got to be the best I have found! You outshine all the “professional” tv network content I have seen on the same topics. I do not know if RUclips is your full time job or if you are also a pilot but if you are that is just crazy! You are very great at explaining the complex things. I love the visuals! Because of my adhd I have a hard time following audio and they really help! 10/10 channel and content, have a good day!!
Fantastic video on many levels! Have always liked your videos but this one earned my subscription. So many great lessons to learn from this event and you highlighted them great with an amazing presentation
ILS beam deflection is an interesting phenomenon. The lower beam of most glide slopes is bounced off the ground and outwards at 3 degrees. Normally the localizer is quite reliable but in winter a freezing rain over a snow pack will change the height of the signal bounce and throw it out of tolerance. This is typically picked up the monitoring system.
I did look at the snow measurements taken during the investigation and it indicated that there was more snow on one side verses the other, which would have contributed to the shift in the centreline of localizer radiated signal.
@@pyrethedragon I don't know if the localizer can be affected by snow. When I was a tower controller we would lose the GP after a freezing rain on top of snow. I believe the ice layer formed would deflect the GP outside tolerances
Looking at the report, it's weird that no mention of the lights is made in terms of corrective actions. - Why doesn't the remote activation system has any feedback at all? It shouldn't be difficult to change the system to have it play a pre-recorded message saying the current light level after each change (and repeat it every minute or so). - Additionally, procedures could be changed so the lights are required to be on during snow.
These arnt standard incandescent bulbs or LED's that you can leave on 100% duty cycle. More likely mercury vapor lighting that requires off cycle time to cool down. Since you do.t want them blinking off, you dial back the intensity to prevent them from over heating and getting damaged.
Request: Japan Airlines flight 123, Air France flight 447, Ansett Australia Airlines flight 881, El Al flight 1862, British European Airways flight 548, Fine Air flight 101
I love every video relased on this channel. Not only are we informed and entertained. We each also take a lesson that we can apply to our own life/career. Thank you Petter!
Some fascinating parallels between this accident and Colgan 3407 ten years prior. To wit: - Both Captains had serious blemishes on their records including check-ride failures citing poor judgement and weak skills, with each receiving disciplinary letters. - Both First Officers commuted over 1,000 miles from their homes (Colgan FO in Washington state, Commutair FO from Florida) in the 24 hours prior to the accident flights. - Both First Officers had recently been and/or were still sick on the day of their respective accidents - Both First Officers, upon arriving at EWR on their commutes, were under-rested with each having gotten approx 4-5 hours of sleep before starting their duty day. - Both departures were out of EWR during the winter months. - Both flights attempted approaches in marginal conditions. - Both Captains in particular exercised woeful judgement and poor CRM (Colgan being far worse). Of course the outcomes are vastly different but only due to sheer luck on the part of the Commutair crew who managed not to stalll on the TOGA and didn’t collide with anything after they missed the runway during their bellyflop into the grass.
The captain was the one with the training blemishes. The FO was just tired and didn't have hours required to be a captain. What this shows is that exahastion is equivalent to training inadaquices. Yet people hop into their 2.5 ton suv death machines all the time while tired. I'm glad we have finally gotten rid of the time switch in the USA, even though they are leaving the switch in the wrong position.
Indeed. Seems to be while reading your list nothing was learned from the Colgan Air Crash. Unfortunately. Most important difference: All People on board of this plane and also on the ground stayed alive.
I wouldn’t put so much emphasis on past failed sims and checks, especially so early in one’s career. If every sim is failed and repeated, or line flying shows dangerous habits or questionably decisions then that’s far more important when looking at an air crash like this one.
@@RowanHawkins There has been discussion about abolishing daylight saving time (DST) in the United States, but I did not realize that this had been implemented. I know Hawaii and Arizona do not observe DST, but to the best of my knowledge, the rest of the country still does. When will the time change stop being implemented?
Excellent video. I was just thinking about the importance of speaking up about problems in all situations and how, in many industries, whistleblowers are just treated as annoying troublemakers. For example, the Challenger Space Shuttle disaster could’ve been prevented if NASA bosses had listened to, and taken action to deal with, concerns about the likely failure of the O rings at very low temperatures. But they were too keen to stick to the launch date and didn’t want to delay it. So the inevitable happened. But it had been predicted by Roger Boisjoly six months before the accident. How arrogant and reckless to push ahead with the launch despite known issues that could and did kill seven astronauts. Listen to the whistleblowers!
@@nevilleneville6518 The Challenger disaster was another classic case of get-there-itis. Due to the media attention being paid to this launch, because of the Teacher in Space Project, NASA management really didn't want to delay or, worse, scrub, the launch. The really sad part is that test results dating back to 1977 showed a flaw in the design of the O-rings, but neither NASA nor Morton Thiokol addressed it. The lesson I learned from this is: screw the bosses; listen to the engineers.
@@johnopalko5223 Get-there-itis and normalization of deviance. They had O-ring erosion and blow-by in pretty much all previous flights, but it still worked. So they said: If the amount of O-ring erosion of the last flight wasn't worse than any previous flight it's fine. Until that one day, where outside temperatures were at a record low and upper level winds were at a record high. I can only recommend reading the Rogers Commission for anyone who is interested in all the small details that lead to the Challenger accident and how it could have been prevented.
Excellent video as usual. Not following go-round criteria is even critical for little GA guys-I fly a 1946 Aeronca Champ strictly for fun and with only 65 hp, on a hot day, persisting to “fix” a bounced landing on a short runway with trees at the end can be a fatal mistake. Thus I have a “bounce equals go-round” rule for those circumstances. But there is a grey area where the runway isn’t really short and the trees aren’t high-which can place you, say on a gusty swirling crosswindy (i.e., busy hand/feet) day into a one-second go-no go judgment situation under high workload circumstances. (Yes workload can be high even in a Champ if you’ve got a gusty swirling crosswind on a hard surface narrow runway with buildings and trees all around.) I try to default to “hey pal just go-round,” i.e., always going around when in any doubt so I don’t have to risk whether the one-second call will be sound. I mean why NOT go-round? I always have plenty of fuel…
Seems I read in a comment here or somewhere else the adage, "Expect a go-around, be happy if a landing results". Seems like a good way to think about it. From watching these videos it can be hard for some pilots to switch their mindset from landing to go-around because they weren't thinking about it. Probably hard to keep both ideas in mind at the same time, but sounds like a good idea to always imagine that you might be doing a go-around. Not doing so could be why it's hard for some pilots to break out of the landing attempt. Especially hard when the runway is right there in front of them and they believe that they can make it. So it's better to have a rule that you always follow. Your bounce equals go-around rule is exactly the type of thinking they should have in mind, xxx feet no runway we go around, not stable approach by x miles we go around, etc. Obviously for a commercial pilot those are already rules, but seems like some pilots need to commit themselves to following the rules no matter what, no matter how good the landing prospects seem.
Training in any field is crucial. I was hired at a company and quickly promoted due to my experience. One of my trainers pointed out that it was very important not to rock the boat. My response was that I couldn't do that. The only boat that isn't rocking is the one not moving. I was always respectful but I was always making changes that kept us growing and getting better.
This is why my instructor told me to speak up if anything doesn't feel right. "You're not a pilot yet, but if you ever feel like anything is unsafe or going wrong, speak up. You might notice something I don't." I always appreciated how my instructors always taught us to question everything. "If something doesn't look right, it isn't right. A go-around is free, sticking to it is the most expensive mistake you can make that has been commonly paid in blood."
First Officer's wife here. Sitting on jump seat behind Captain. Quiet as a church mouse. Listening on headset coming south down Long Island. Told cleared to land in pouring rain no sight of airfield. Hubby: "negative." Started banking to take the turn North. Crew looking out of window to the right; no airport in sight. For some reason I stopped looking out to the right and looked to my left. SHOCK HORROR another a/c alongside and mirroring our actions. Both a/c sinking. This was a 747:200 with engineer. I waved at him and pointed out the window. He unbuckled to see what I was indicating ... and spoke up.
Later...in the bar...Engineer tells me that they reported this near-miss, hubby stating that the Engineer noticed the a/c. "No, Peter. It was your wife! "
PS. No TCAS alert in this situation.
‘No matter how much experience someone has, don’t let them kill you.’
surely the most logical action on this landing would have been to divert to the other airport. They fueled up well for this possibility, but did not use it.
A go around isn't "free" as such, since it will use a bunch of fuel... But compared to death and the aircraft destroyed, I guess it's awful close to free.
I certainly agree with the finding that the First Officer's fatigue was likely a factor. When I finally got a CPAP for sleep apnea I soon noticed that when I was driving I seemed to have a remarkable sense of traffic around me. In reality, it was normal situational awareness after years of driving in a fog. The devil of it is that it is hard to know when our awareness fades. Now I don't even take a short nap without it.
Sure, you need it. The FO might not have needed it. It's all the Captains fault for pushing past objective safety boundaries.
@@crimony3054 "All the blame goes to this one cause" is a classic safety error. Which is why you _never_ see that in an NTSB report, but only in RUclips comments.
@@crimony3054 If the FO hadn't needed it, it would not have been prescribed. Compounding that was his partial recovery from flu and abbreviated sleep time. How much difference it made is uncertain, but it would be unreasonable to rule it out as a contributing factor without more info. Unless I missed something, the FO was Pilot Flying 7:16. The Captain was Pilot Monitoring.
Lack of CPAP when required reduces the quality of restorative sleep. It is amazing that is was not mandated for this pilot. It's like driving without your glasses.
Sleep apnea kills your brain by boiling frog effect
you should have an april fools event where you make a full video about a flight that was completely fine and nothing happened
That's very funny !! :-)
This would not be funny at all...
@@ally3093 Ah but done correctly it could serve as a training video ASWELL as trolling the people who come here for 'so there was this accident-'
Formally an educational video about good practices and positive reinforcement for good performance on the pilots' part, and also teasing the youtube audience's morbid curiosity. I'd love it
That would be hysterical
The Embraer 145 is a super little jet, which continues to avoid killing its first passenger, despite the best efforts of some pilots!
I used to joke I liked to fly this aircraft because I'm not lucky enough to become famous as the first fatality so it must be perfectly safe.
That and I like puddle jumpers because you actually get to feel like you're flying.
@@JohnVanderbeckthe feeling of flying is real, the pilots whip these little things around!
@@forceawakens4449 Jumbo jets are luxurious and comfortable but so boring! Wouldn't even know you were flying if you didn't look out the window every now and then.
I wouldn't say these pilots are perfect, no pilots are, but I definitely wouldn't blame them completely for what happened here though we all know they could do better next time. (maybe you're talking about other pilots who have flown this plane horribly idk)
I wouldn't say these pilots are perfect, no pilots are, but I definitely wouldn't blame them completely for what happened here though we all know they could do better next time. (maybe you're talking about other pilots who have flown this plane horribly idk)
I worked in Law Enforcement (US). I love how you address company culture and root cause in your videos. I think LE could take a lot of good points away from aircraft incident investigations and regulations. An example is rest or down time. The department I worked for only required 8 hours between shifts. That is 8 hours from end to finish. There were times working a late shift that I would have to work 8, off 8, work 8, off 8, work 8 just to attend daytime training. Upper management never had to do this. There was a "we did our time, now you do yours" attitude. It created an unsafe environment. Armed officers driving around after days of inadequate sleep. I wish law enforcement in the US was as regulated as the airline industry. The only way it is really scrutinized is regarding racism and profiling. Yes that is important, but, like a pilot worked or stressed too hard with not enough rest, incidents are more likely to happen.
The railroad is the same way regarding rest. You get 8 hours of rest and it begins when you clock out. I had a two hour drive after clocking out, so now I am down to 6 hours of rest but they would give me a 2 hour call to get back to work which cuts rest down to 4 hours because I had to leave immediately when my call was received. I was low on Seniority so I didn't know where to move my family to. Sometimes I would drive 2 hours east to work and other times it was 2.5 hours north which made it stressful because was already half hour late for work when they would do this to me. The crew was always mad when I showed up and they were also rushed to leave which made it unsafe. I no longer work in the industry.
@@BradySzabo Railways in the UK has a Minimum 12 hour break for these reasons.
That job always had me on edge, exhausted and nervous. I felt like they owned me.@@andrewcoupe9528
@BradySzabo that's insane. Hey, I'm working with large machines that can cause real havoc. Meh, don't need rest.
I agree. We need to support and watch law enforcement
In every episode, Petter does 'absolutely fantastic' emphasizing lessons to be learned. These lessons are not just for those in aviation. They apply to all aspects of life. I've recommended Petter's channel(s) to family members and friends for this reason, in addition to the compelling and entertaining way that Petter relates -- he creates suspense, maintains a respectful attitude toward all, and injects an element of humor when appropriate. Also, he's just an over-all nice guy and family man that I would love to have as my next-door neighbor.
I've watched the production values of Mentour Pilot improve steadily over the years. I miss the old days, though, when one could count on unscripted appearances and antics by the pups on the black couch with the red and green pillows. I hope our furry friends are doing well.
Yeah, I hope the dogs are doing well!🐕🐕
@@NicolaW72
I was just thinking about them!
This comment is absolutely fantastic!
I love how he emphasizes why the mistakes were made. Not just pilot error and move on. It's confirmation bias combined with other factors.
@Lawrence Jordan, I agree with everything you said, and will add that he somehow creates the impression that he is telling me the story - just me, one-on-one, sitting in the living room or perhaps by the fireplace at the pub. It doesn't feel like a video created for thousands of viewers - it feels much more personal than that.
As a EMB145 maintenance technician, I think the aircraft handled this accident like a champ. The gear sheared off as designed, but didn't quite end up fully departing the airplane. The nose absorbed the impact softening the shock to the passengers and crew. All in all I think the airplane did a fantastic job. It's just sad that we lost an XR, those are the pinnacle of 145's.
Technician, not an engineer.
@@dann5480 unnecessary, rude, bigoted comment. Were you an engineer you’d know technicians have far better knowledge of what to actually do in emergencies while engineers (me included) have a tendency to be lost (pun intended) in the clouds of theory. Ill add that your comment shows a shameful lack of class. Distasteful.
@@dann5480 what the hell does that mean? If you don't have faith in the knowledge or skill of maintenance techs, I would stay off aircraft.
@@dann5480 So what? His opinion is also relevant. What is your relevant opinion about the case?
Indeed. The best part of this accident: Nobody was killed and nobody was seriously injured - and the Passengers were at their planned destionation, too.
It's really nice when everyone survives. Digging out a trench in the snow was an extra nice touch. I think I love these stories so much because half the time they're just about members of human society helping out other members of human society.
I mean it's not really a "touch", a lot of passengers just literally physically couldn't pass 5 foot snow and would have been trapped until they had done that.
A friend of mine who used to fly F/16s for Royal Jordanian Air Force once told me about an accident where the aircraft lost its wing upon takeoff and pilot was killed just because the previous pilot had over-G the jet and didn’t report it. Lesson, If you see anything unusual report it because you saw it but the other person may not be able to see to.
In russia, if you break something, you have to pay for it with your own money. I remember reading last year about young russian military pilot who unintentionally tailstriked training aircraft on landing. After that he was expelled from army and the court imposed him to pay for all the damages many millions of rubles. Basically he will have to pay the rest of his life for one small mistake.
@@cdjxwubcyex wow many thanks to that guy for the damage! and btw, nobody from third-world countries with poor aviation regulations is watching so not that it would change much for them anyway. but if they try to, they may as well end up treated like that pro russian pilot(thanks again, maybe someone in this world has life spared thanks to his mistake).
Over-G is very, very dangerous. Always report it, no matter if you are the junior pilot.
@@cdjxwubcyex
I doubt it
Part of the problem is that it can be difficult to take responsibility and report such a thing, especially in countries where you would get all the blame and then get fired. At least that was a problem in the past in some Middle Eastern countries. And I'm not trying to be negative, it's just what aviation professionals in the region have told me.
Great work Mentour Pilot. This video is very impressive! A "must watch" to all pilots out there. As an EMB135/145 Captain flying in Europe this video is even more relevant. The funny thing is, I found your video 1 day after filing an Occurrence-Report on a VOR approach into Thessaloniki with almost the exact same problem. Luckily the weather was not so bad so we had good reference with the runway well above minimums and corrected for the off-track. As a pilot I know it sure is hard to overcome the "Confirmation Bias" when your instruments are telling you something different from reality and with the words "trust-your-instruments" ringing in the back of your mind. It happens to the best, never say never. Thanks fellow aviator/colleague of the skies.
I work at a large aviation repair facility and often pass along important suggestions about safety that I learn here. Who knows who may be having a bad day or because someone is new and in training. Often I followup with the question, "Would you feel safe to fly on the plane that you were a part of repairing?"
We now have a suggestion box to improve safety and award workers for going above and beyond. I'm going to suggest watching some of these videos that are shorter. If someone on the FPI line rejects a blade with a hairline crack and prevents a tragedy then this channel will have more impact than anyone would ever know.
Great job!
Final comment, if you see something wrong - say something. There's no points for being quiet.
Just noting that I love the longer-content format. If I want a brief summary, I can turn to Mayday Aviation 😂
It can actually backfire. Suppose if a passenger have some suspicion about something and tell crew about it and crew find it to be false that may put passenger in a very bad legal case.
When I was doing my flight training, I was also working assisting on medivac flights. Knowing I was doing flight training, I was treated as a second officer type role - having my head in the flight at most times - even though I wasn't flying or part of the operating crew. I was included in the briefings before flights and during the flight itself - and the golden rule said specifically to me was "Just because you might think you're not qualified, if you ever see something that seems out of place, make sure you speak up and tell us. We'd rather confirm something isn't a problem than not notice a problem."
One flight, when I was getting more familiar with the aircraft systems, I noticed that on a long flight over the ocean, that the fuel remaining estimate was about 1hr less than the flight duration. I mentioned this just after we came out of the 10,000ft sterile phase of flight and got a reply of "That's fine, we'll discuss it when we get to the cruise altitude". A bit later on in the flight, it was explained to me that the fuel computer only uses instantaneous fuel burn to calculate the time remaining, and was shown that now we were in the cruise stage of flight with a much lower fuel burn than the climb, we had at least 2 hours beyond the flight time of fuel onboard.
This might sound simple, and routine, and like a rookie mistake - but the captain told me I did well to spot it - and that it was better to point it out and get a proper explanation than ignore it and nobody notices a mistake that would have caused us to have to ditch in the ocean. This is the perfect culture to foster in aviation - and should be encouraged no matter what type of flying you do. The realisation that aviation got this culture embedded into it from people not saying things and dying should be a sobering reminder of why things are the way they are.
I am not in the aviation industry. I remember there was an Airbus having a fuel leak but the crew opened the common fuel valve connecting the fuel tanks according to the manual. It was very lucky that it glided to land safely in an island that had the long enough airfield. I felt guilty as I had a chance to bring up this questionable, if not incorrect abnormal operating procedure, i.e. open the fuel common valve under this kind of situation. Also wondering why the computer did not alarm the crew that the fuel amount remain onboard was not enough for the remaining of the trip.
Many years ago when I was in flight school we were told that at the airlines the Captian was the boss and his word was law, and everyone else was to sit down and shut up. Then we studied wreaks that happened because the Captain refused to listen to the co pilot's concerns. Watching Petter and Kelsey, I am glad to see how that has changed.
@@d2009wong I don't understand your comment. Are you saying that you were on the flight in question, presumably seated in the cockpit for some reason, even though you're not in the aviation industry? If you were not in the cockpit, how would you have been able to observe the pilots performing the procedure that worried you, and that you said you had a chance to question, but did not? And if you weren't there in the cockpit to observe the procedure and to fail to question it, why would you feel guilty?
CRC, you were part of a very good crew.
@@leisti I have been working in the marine commercial shipping industry for decades. Although in the mid-seventies there were some unattended machinery space ship designs, I imagine that the aviation standards were much higher. I worked on the Boeing Jetfoil in the eighties. Simply put, it is an advanced hydrofoil vessel adopting some airplane flight control surfaces system and a split-bus electrical system for normal operation. The operation manual was an eye opener for me. The abnormal operation procedure regarding tank level low alarm (including fuel tank and hydraulic tank) was to open the common valve. It didn't make sense to me, I think it was "wrong". I thought about bringing it up but didn't as I thought no one would listen to me. Years later, I watched in TV one of the Mayday episodes about an Airbus experienced a fuel leak (due to a wrong size fuel line clamp). The crew opened the common valve of the fuel tanks, following the manual's abnormal operation procedure (same as I had on the Boeing Jetfoil). Later all fuel tanks had low level and then all engines stopped working. Airbus amended this procedure after the incident. Luckily that plane landed without any injuries. I always wonder if it would make any difference had I brought it up then.
I am glad that nowadays the standards in marine industry are getting higher and I would speak up for things that can help. Like for passenger ships, the regulation should require that a split bus electrical system for the normal operation.
Similarly, if the rudder is so crucial for an airplane, why most of the commercial passenger airplanes are not of the twin tail/twin rudder design?
From the post-accident photos, it appears to me that the 5' of snow may have actually helped the aircraft come to a somewhat stable stop on the infield.
Most likely, yes
Thank God for small miracles I guess.
@@C.Fecteau-AU-MJ13 Yeah. The snowy weather caused the incident and also prevented a worse result. Odd isn’t it?
@@dominicklavarco6206 Well it's probably more apt to say the lack of effective mitigation measures for said snow was the root cause of the malfunction, being that the snow which stopped the plane was separate from the snow causing the equipment malfunction... However the irony in the situation isn't lost on me.
As a Local to PI, sounds about right. Lol
This is why it is important to report issues no matter how small they seam. I am guilty of not raising issues with higher ups because 'they have enough to deal with' but now i see that a repot could be the difference between life and death
Great summary Petter.
As a retired heavy jet captain this one makes me wince 😢, not good. It was a completely avoidable accident.
I TOTALLY agree with your summation and how essential it is to
1. Follow procedures including go- around requirements to the letter and
2. Report things that seem unusual or wrong.
Shout out to the snow clearing crew here too. Not usually what you think of as an emergency responder. But when you have 5 feet of snow on the ground, and something off-runway, they have to get it done first for anyone else to do anything.
I thought that was pretty impressive as well. I dislike shoveling my driveway; these guys shoveled (with power tools, I'm sure) all the way to a crash site. Incredible work.
I love how Petter really highlights how important it is to follow operating procedures in high risk, high stress operations and his advice can be adapted to so many occupations... I learn so much valuable information from his work.
I've spent a large part of my working life working in large mining operations as a drill and blast technician and shot crew foreman and I always drill into my crews (no pun intended) that the only bad emergency call or shutdown of a machine when a hazard was detected is the one that wasn't called. I will never, ever chastise any member of any crew, no matter how low on the totem pole they may be, for identifying what they perceive as a hazard and stopping the machine they're on or calling "emergency, emergency, emergency" over the radios and stopping the entire site. In our line of work, there are plenty of situations we are in every single day that do not have the option of a go around. Although our procedures make things relatively safe nowadays, when things do go wrong, they go catastrophically wrong and there's a hundred different ways to end up as a thin veneer spread across the work site.
Call the emergency first, no matter what you think the reason may have been and if you're unsure of what you're doing, or if it doesn't look quite right, then always stop and get someone more senior to check it out and if they're unsure they'll grab someone like me to make sure everything is kosher.
Just like those pilots with the "sterile environment" we have times where the shot is tied in, ready to fire, when we have similar, very strict rules about who can and can't be anywhere near it. We have procedures in place, as tedious as they can be, for very good reasons and the sites are only as safe as they are thanks to a long line of tragedy that has taught us what those procedures need to be. Not following the procedures on my shot crews is a real good way to get your arse fired immediately too.
This reminds me of the quote I saw in the comments section of another one of your videos. I don't know who said it. But something along the lines of "every landing approach is a go-around, with the option to land". I like that.
I've always wondered how the making of this excellent channel has influenced Petter's own actions in the cockpit. It's like having his own permanently ongoing safety training. I am sure he is one of the safest pilots out there as he is constantly reminded and super aware of all the things that can go wrong. (and, well, he is a Swede) 😁
His team is making the videos he’s at the cottage in Sweden
Well, since he's a Training Captain with the airline he works for, he already has a constant schedule of ongoing training and review.
I often think the same.
Definitely. Although the 'scared af' thing during an incident is a factor too, and quite unpredictable.
@@AnimeSunglasses I think he left that job due to lack of flying
I hate to fly, as in I need meds to do it, and as a result, have only flown TWICE (there and back) in the last 20 years. Been watching your videos for a while, and I’ve learned so much! Next opportunity to fly somewhere, I’m going! Just seeing the depth and breadth of what goes into safety has truly helped. These videos are amazing!!
so lovely to hear ^^
Thank you for your continued focus on healthy teamwork and evidence-based safety culture.
I had a first career in General Aviation (avionics tech) for 14 years followed by 34 years in a major electric utility. I was amazed how much more safety emphasis there was in the electric power industry than in general aviation. In GA I knew about one person per year who died as a result of flight accidents; in the electric industry I didn't know any in more than three decades. As you say: "safety culture" - that unblinking awareness of hazards - makes a critical difference.
@@flagmichael If "electric industry" includes all certified electric technicians, I suspect there are far more deaths in the industry due to electrocution than you are aware of.
I'm a Maine resident and remember this incident being reported in the local press, but no one ever followed up on it. Very interesting, and frightening, that these pilots would continue landing without being able to see the runway.
One of the shortcomings of our human thought processes is that if two people are seeing the same things, and each is 50% sure of what they are seeing, we tend to combine those to be 100% certain - especially if it is what we want to see.
I live 30 minutes from that airport. Was interesting to hear of a local incident.
You were lucky that the BDN reported on it in the first place.
The company thought so too. They were both fired.
Another interesting incident Petter and how different things could’ve played out if the ILS incident was reported those few days earlier. Very fortunate everyone walked away from it. Kudos to the Mentour Pilot team, the quality increases with every video ❤
Thank you! I agree
@@MentourPilot I still can't understand why the pilots didn't report the anomaly. Whether it was being caused by a fault on the ground or a fault on the plane it seems (to my ignorant mind) important to log.
@@kjh23gk My thoughts exactly.
Was it made compulsory to report this type of ILS error after the incident?
@@kjh23gk normalization of deviance.
The fleet was old, and it was not uncommon to get sporadic, erratic localizer indications, one leg might have the FD going nuts trying to track a loc dancing left and right going into EWR on a sunny day, only to settle down inside the marker. Next leg, same plane, rock steady going into BUF in a snowstorm.
Crew ahead and behind didn't have issues, and mx couldn't find anything with the airplane. This was a daily occurrence at the time.
Operation also flew into many airports where this was a known issue, and NOTAM'd as such, or smaller airports with a localizer offset 1-3º The crews that DID notice this likely disregarded it as "one of those things" you saw when doing 3-5 legs a day to small airports in 25 year old airplanes.
Another factor was the ops tempo and workload. Many times, by the time this discrepancy was noted by the flight crew, they weren't even talking to Boston anymore, and had been handed off to CTAF. Crew is now trying to fit into GA traffic at a small airport, land, exit, cancel with Boston on the ground, park, and turn the airplane for the outbound flight, then fly 4 more legs that day before getting to the hotel.
It wouldn't surprise me if a few crews noticed it, and forgot about it by the time they were even in a position to file a report.
My job has nothing to do with aviation, but these videos remind me what true professionalism is about. You're making world better in ways you probably can't imagine :-)
So true, no matter which job, is it cleaning room or sewers, is it garbage collection, is it coding, is it any blue colour job. Professionalism is super important!
Thank you for covering this incident, this is our local airport. We were devastated to learn of this accident and thankful only minor injuries.
I remember a passenger on that Aloha Airlines 737 that lost part of its roof noticed cracks in the skin of the plane as she boarded and at first wanted to say something but then decided not to, assuming the crew knew about the cracks and would not fly if it wasn't safe.
Just in general, if you see something that doesn't look right, say something. Maybe it's not important, and maybe they already know, but maybe not... and it might end up saving lives. Don't be afraid to say something out of fear of embarrassment.
@@troodon1096 Can't agree more.
If nothing else, the flight crew can assure you. Those guys see nervous flyers all the time. Most are happy to reduce that tension for their passengers.
That is how 98% of the public is. There are only 2% of leaders.
As ground crew, we’re taught to do the same.
There was another flight where left engine was spitting fire and smoking, but no passengers reported it as pilots mentioned on PA that the RIGHT engine was failing. If the passengers would have picked up on it and notified cabin crew about the LEFT engine, that incident could have been avoided as well.
This is a really good counterpoint to the previous video where the pilots refused to believe their instruments! As always thank you for the care you take to tell these stories well.
I love that the takeaways from those accidents aren't phrased just to other pilots but to everybody watching, I truly think everybody can take something away from those videos not just people in aviation.
The first approach where they barely missed that tower should have set off major alarm bells in both pilots - you just should not encounter an obstruction like that if you are lined up with the runway. Pilots are trained to believe their instruments, but this extreme anomaly must override that training and cause a reset - the instruments aren't ALWAYS right.
ILS localizer and glideslope have monitoring systems, separate little antennas called near field monitors that check the parameters to detect problems like this but seems like noone got the warning. With towered airports the ILS panel in the tower also shows these warnings. I worked on ILS maintenance for 5 years. The glideslope is insanely sensitive to ground conditions, even the grass has to be kept at certain heigth near the antenna because it uses ground reflection to form the 3 degree "beam". Localizer usually does not complain about the ground in front of the antennas, but yeah 5ft of snow did it. My airport never got more than 2 ft of snow
The closest untowered airport to where I live only has a grass runway, no lights, no ILS and is only open to general aviation.
Never would I have thought that there could be untowered international airports.
To be honest, 2m off centerline at thrrshold is a warning, 10m off, system goes to hot standby and if that has same warning... shuts off
@@psirvent8 I think KPQI is only technically a international airport, there are no regular flights to Canada, but you can check through for international GA ferry flights and such...
technically, I think there are airports which are a dirt strip and are yet occasionally used as international... Bara having a flight to Ireland once in a blue moon being the example I can immediately think of
@@psirvent8 "International" is a generous self-description of Presque Isle. It's pretty typical for a small GA field, but definitely not what would normally be considered an "international" airport in the sense of having scheduled international airline flights. You can probably get international air taxi operations from there just because it's so close to Canada (only about 75 miles,) but the whole airport only averages 20 flight operations per day with only 3 of those being commercial and those all being domestic, specifically, that flight to Newark and formerly one to IAD in Washington. It was formerly called Northern Maine Regional Airport, which seems like a much more reasonable name.
Some airport names have really gotten ridiculous. Like "Music City Executive Airport," which isn't in Music City (i.e. Nashville) or even in the same county. It's in Gallatin, about a 40-minute drive from Nashville... which already has both a GA reliever airport and a major international airport that are much closer than the self-described "executive" one. At least that one isn't nearly as egregious as "Orlando-Melbourne International Airport," which is in Melbourne, FL, more than a hour from downtown Orlando and nearly an hour and a half to Disney World (where most of the tourists to Orlando are going.)
c90b
Cool video. I worked in forestry for 20 yrs and introduction of hazard and incident reporting prevented many injuries and saved a few lives. Thanks for highlighting this.
Fantastic episode! They are very valuable for us GA-pilots. To be reminded of the basic principles, such as always seeing the go-around as the main plan and the perfect landing as a bonus if everything is as it should!
@VGpilot early video release for patreon members.
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I live in Presque Isle. Despite being a "small" airport it was built by the military for large bombers, so it has more capacity and capability than it's size and location would indicate. It was the predecessor to Loring AFB that housed the B52 and B1B bomber wings during the end of the cold war.
Also, thanks for the proper enunciation. 99% of Americans can't pronounce our name to save their lives.
Honestly threw me off lol. I’m from Erie, PA and we have a Presque isle.
@@juanwhick1691 there are a few others in the states as well. I mean, considering what the words mean I am not surprised it was a common place name for french speaking locals.
Hello from Kinchloe
Perhaps they've heard the Canadian pronunciation (presk ill).
@@sanniepstein4835 thats the right enunciation you dunce. Its a french word and the Canadians respect their french roots
The real Kamikoto knife company of Japan is not associated with the Kamikoto company advertised here. The Japanese company only supplies to the Japanese domestic market and uses folded steel. The KK advertised here is a Chinese company which uses stamped steel which is not folded - it has nothing to do with the Japanese company.
There are many videos on this knife scam.
It's nothing to do with folding it is the composition of steel used which is not appropriate for hard edges.
They go blunt quick due to soft steel but he dont mention the folded steel part and such.. so its not missinformation in that way. I have seen worse claims when it comes to mobile games.
Hey, you're getting 50 bucks off. So what the knives are cheap knockoffs. When you get a Rolex for $60 bucks you don't expect that to be real, do you?
@@douglaswatters7303 From what I've seen, These Chinese knives are more expensive than the real deal, which confuses me. A proper quality Japanese Chef's knife isn't that expensive in Japan. Around 80-100USD. I have one for 10 years and it has no nicks and cuts.
I love that you do a full range of events, from incidents not considered newsworthy to catastrophes that are still remembered decades later. So much to learn!
I'm so mad you made me wait 2 weeks and I am so thrilled to see this upload. I had a shitty day today and this is going to make it so much better. Thank you so much. We love you!
I love your channel. My aviation career ended early due to health issues, but I still feel the excitement through your presentations.
skill issue
@@yammmitwhat?
@@mark9294 their health issues sounds like a skill issue
I can't believe I haven't watched this video before today. I knew and loved that very plane when I flew it at XJT - I was a check pilot there for 20 years. We had a "no fault" go around policy. And I used to fly Metroliners into PQI in the early 1990s. Thanks for the video.
Thank you Petter for this great report. I have much experience flying into PQI in a Saab 340. This airport can be a real challenge in the winter. One challenge is the lack of chemical being put on the runway most likely due to budget constraints. PQI is a Essential Air Service route and is only serviced by one airline. The operations crews would only scrap the runway to clear snow, but many times it was white as could be and hard to distinguish from other terrain.
This video got me thinking a lot about the challenges pilots must face here where I live, which is in the nothern Canadian prairies. There are International airports here, in the larger cities. We have like six months of winter. -40 is a normal temp. There are times where you can look out the window, and struggle to see the house across the street.
Even driving here in winter is crazy. Not so much in the cities, but on the highways, if it's snowing and there's any wind, everything is just white white white. A car could be three feet in front of you, and you wouldn't know. We call it a white-out. A blizzard is even worse, but it doesn't have to be a full-blown blizzard in order to cause a white-out, or visibility issues.
I think about the amount of accidents, injuries, and deaths that are caused just by driving a car here in winter, and I wonder about how much more difficult pilots must have here during our long winters.
Excellent breakdown. As someone whose extent of knowledge of aviation is watching Air Crash Investigation/Mayday, your ability to use your professional knowledge to breakdown complex accident sequences and convert the aviation jargon into layman’s terms is something that I find very educational and admire. It is an important skill I am still trying to perfect as a law student (I’ll always remember when my father had an issue with his driver’s licence and the lawyer we consulted said “we can try for a section 10” with no explanation of what a section 10 was. I had to look it up online after the consultation).
Clearly here there wasn’t an A+ crew in the cockpit, but what stunned me was that the First Officer was expecting the issue, yet he was still fooled by it. Unbelievable.
Close observation shows that the green/pink line hiccup never occurred. Was the GPS signal so weak that the avionics disregarded that input. Yes, the crew made some human errors, but the First Officer did what the Captain told him to do. I don't see how anyone can say his actions were unbelievable or foolish.
@@gerhardlangguth3931 The first officer was flying a green needle approach (Localizer/ILS) and wouldn't have been able to see the GPS guidance and realize that there was a discrepancy. If they had concerns about this (which they should have since it was discussed at the start of the flight) they should have had the pilot not flying (the captain in this case) monitoring the GPS needles to ensure that the two systems were giving the same course guidance. If the two systems weren't showing the same guidance indications that would have required a go-around since the crew has no way to know which signal is correct (GPS or Localizer). Also, the first officer should know the rules regarding when a go-around is required as well as the captain and when they reached minimums without the pilot flying seeing the runway he should have initiated a go-around. Either pilot is absolutely empowered/required to abort a landing approach at any time they feel something is wrong and in this case neither pilot did.
Def the b or c team. Trust me. Nobody liked flying with her.
@@jeffreyleftovers You kicked yourself off the A team by your insistence (2nd attempt I noticed) on getting an unnecessary and unprofessional dig into the Captain that does nothing to further aviation safety. If you had concerns about the pilot's performance you were required to report them via channels that would be far more useful than a petulant comment on RUclips.
@@petep.2092 um… ok
I work in retail management, and your videos give me a lot to think about in my own field. Thank you for your great content!
The wrong shirt on the wrong rack could cost someone their life lol
Crew management?
Fantastic video. Good analysis. There was a lot of caution flying into that airport. 3 months prior, the runway maintenance crew improperly report braking action which almost caused a runway excursion. Greatly increased runway performance buffers and alternate rules came from that. Also got the feds involved.
I was unaware of the loc antenna clearance rules and their changes. That was very interesting to hear.
But with the weather, snow removal challenges, and a weaker captain it lined up all the cheese.
Fortunate no one was injured.
When I first heard of the incident that afternoon, I assumed it was an excursion because of previous runway reports being greatly inaccurate.
I’ll admit I didn’t have to check to see who the captain was….
Thank You Peter / Mentour Pilot Team. The amount of information packed into this video is excellent. A very thorough overview. Thank you for sharing the story. The essential nature of reporting and the responsibility of all to do this is a great take away. Thank you again!
Absolutely fantastic episode, as always. As someone who also has a CPAP machine, I can't stress the importance of using it enough. I'm totally exhausted if I don't.
I 100% agree. If I even take a nap without it I am in a fog for many hours. Most of all, I notice my situational awareness is trashed without it.
Like a driving requirement for wearing glasses, or a diabetic being responsible for their glucose level, every CPAP user with a high level job like pilot needs to be considered under-rested if they failed to use it. Reinforcement is tough, but I know if my wife for whatever reason can't use hers she can be severely impaired even after 8 hrs 'sleep'
@@markdoldon8852 Not just high-stress jobs. Simply driving a vehicle with untreated sleep apnea can significantly increase your risk of accidents and people have had their licenses removed if they refuse to treat their sleep apnea. I have central sleep apnea as a result of ongoing neurological illness (so no magic cure for me with CPAP, sadly) and even just staying awake to finish something as simple as a row of knitting or typing a sentence into chat can prove impossible at times, and lead to all kinds of screw-ups. I dread to think what a danger I would be to myself if I wasn't already bedbound. by my neurological issues. Even something like making a cup of tea can be dangerous if you're that drowsy and/or foggy.
It was very uplifting to watch an episode without casualties. Your graphics are awesome! It must be much work in producing a video as this only on graphics. And it is done superb.
Your videos are incredible. You not only explain the error responsible for accidents but also point out the amazing effort by the entire crew to prevent such accidents. I have much respect for the meticulous effort that you put into these videos. Very well done sir !!!
@Mentour Pilot Great channel and content. I am a retired CPL (ATPL) from CYXE. I appreciate the level of knowledge you possess, and your explanation of each accident and sequence leading up to it. I have been binge watching your content for 2 days now. Keep up the great work. New subscriber. Fly safe as always.
Great analysis. Really intriguing accident, which I had always thought was a case of the a/c skidding off the runway until now (I remember seeing a photo of one of the main gear lodged in the left engine intake). Also a big relief that no one was seriously injured or killed. Interesting that they saw something very wrong (tower) with the first approach and decided to go around, and then saw the same again with the second approach but elected to try and "salvage" the approach and landing.
KEY POINT - Go Around SHOULD BE the plan and LANDING considered a bonus.
Thank you so much for creating these and breaking them down in as much detail as you do. Learn from someone else's mistakes so you don't have to figure out those lessons yourself the hard way.
Thanks to these videos, I got well aware of confirmation bias. But even then, I've been in several situations (just as a pedestrian) when it was not clear if I was really where I thought I was, and, actively considering being victim of confirmation bias, it still took me an awfully long time and a ton of evidence to realize that I was wrong. It's insidious!
Production quality of Mentour's videos these days are at another level and always improving. Particularly the preamble, segmentation and narration of air accident investigation videos are awesome. And the graphics, captions, etc are so brilliant!
The lesson about not expecting everyone else to do the reporting when something isn't right is important to remember regardless of our occupation. Hopefully, the pilots who didn't think it was important to report the anomaly with the ILS and only reported it after the incident will never abrogate that responsibility again. At least this time, the lesson was not written in blood. (Not that I fault the pilots, not when everyday life is filled with examples of anyone doing the same kind of thing.)
A certain level of blame must be attributed to those others who flew in earlier, noticed the issue and failed to make a report... the system fails when EVERYONE doesn't do their job to the letter... thankfully, no deaths today... 😕
All the blame is on the previous pilots. I hope they got reprimanded.
"See something, say something" is such an important rule in so many careers where mistakes can cause catastrophy.
Some people in the FAA thought they was a issue on the system because of the snow, but was always shoot down.
Also it not that unusual for landing lights at some small airport to be broken.
Totally agree
Damn right and would have produced a NOTAM about it. The F/O should have officially noted the scrambled lines on his instrumentation on previous flight and then problem solved it or at least properly prepared for it in the pre flight briefing
I am a construction manager and far too many risky tasks go ahead with no briefing at all
These accidents usually happen very quickly, with long discussions between seconds of events. Seeing them enacted in real time, maybe at the end, is a big "ask", but could be fascinating. In any case, thanks for these videos.
Glad to see X-Plane 12 finally get some love in your videos, fantastic production as always!
X-Plane 12 is inaccurate in that the E145 does not have airstairs.
Thank you for this video. I'm currently dealing with anxiety due to having needed to submit an OH&S report on a workplace that I was recently employed at. I spoke up, even though it related to a short term work contract, even when doing so made me extremely anxious as it may well impact future opportunities. Reminding us that if not one speaks up the conditions for workplace errors/injuries remain unaddressed is something I needed to hear, today.
This was much more enjoyable than just reading the NTSB report. Thanks for the safety discussion!
I try to apply the principles that u speak of in other areas to remain safe. Thank u got the education!! So glad they all walked away!!
Absolutely 💯
Wish the USA railroads would start taking safety seriously. They want 1 man crews and still don’t give their employees sick time., let alone a schedule of any kind. I was a locomotive engineer/conductor for 15yrs and finally left the industry due to safety, quality of life and treatment by management. Always like your videos because it’s about safety and not money.
Very different from how European railways do it. Safety is priority number one here, usually.
Heh.. and there’s still rail crossings without stop lights or bars
I used to live near Presque Isle and it could easily snow 5 or 6 feet (2 meters) in one night. Everyone has a door on the upper floor of the house with no stairs so you can get in after a heavy snow when there is 15 feet of snow next to the house. And they call Maine Vacationland.
Another nice video from Mentour Pilot!
It is tempting to confirm that you see what you want to see. On the end of a sailing trip with poor visibility it was difficult to see the entrance markers of the harbour. I asked the helmsman if she actually saw the markers and she confirmed that she did see them. I didn't, so I asked again if she saw a green and a red buoy or light. Yes, can't you see 'm too? Anyway, I had a closer look at the chart-plotter (which was inside the boat) and concluded that we where heading for a mooring dock and the person at the helm had interpreted the bollards on it as the markers we were desperately looking for... The dock was protected by a stone jetty on the seaside that would have ended our sailing trip in a disastrous way.... Conclusion: Do not try to use false reasoning to make you think that you are in a better position than you actually are. See f.i. the "Deepwater Horizon" incident where measurement data were wrongly interpreted by the experienced people involved. They wanted to see 'good results' (finding oil, finding the runway to land on...) leading to a major environmental disaster.....
So surprised and happy to hear all were ok. A really great example of an A+ video. Informative, entertaining, perfectly edited and the story delivered perfectly.
When I sit down next (in the Capt’s seat) I will remember this lesson learned today……. As I run from security. I never said I was a Captain. Great channel.
The thing that makes Petter special is he doesn’t speculate, and doesn’t throw blame around, but instead focuses on how we can all learn and improve. If I had my life to do over again, despite my success, I’d have rather been a pilot, and I’d have loved to have had Petter as a trainer (if I wasn’t quite a bit older than him).
I love these videos, I was never interested in aviation until discovering your channel
Brilliant episode as always! A request: I would love an episode where you introduce your team working behind the scenes
Another great analysis! May I request Comair 5191 for a future video? I started at Comair on the 1 year anniversary of the accident and the CEO brought it up during a quick speech at our orientation. Since then, I’ve always been particularly interested in that accident
@Kyle Damon - start with pilots in a rush, plus runway lights out of commission; add in confirmation bias, then mix with an understaffed control tower whose only ATC had all of 5 hours of sleep the night before. The FO, who was pilot flying, made a mistake. But the entire safety system failed.
I second this. There's a video out there about it, but it would be better with Petter's attention to detail.
@@captaincurle4529 Petter's insight is always educational. I lived in Cincinnati when this happened. Cinci was Comair's headquarters and I had several friends who were pilots and FAs. It was a long 12-24 hours waiting, calling people to find out who we had lost. The FAA and NTSB also staged through our airport. I followed this investigation very closely from beginning to end.
I’m very familiar with the accident but I would also love Petter’s analysis
Petter I love these accident analysis videos! I would love to see a video on the PSA 182 accident! That image of the 727 going down with it's wing on fire is both amazing and hauntingly terrifying!
Thank you Mentour Pilot for all these great content! For me as an ATPL student this channel is a very good / the best possibility to learn about failures from other guys. happy landings!
Thank you for another Great video , good information . Wow your son is growing since last time i saw him on your video , smile you will live thru the teenage years , i survived 3 of them . Be safe Mentour Pilot and family .
Your animations are getting better and better! 😁
Don is a magician
@@MentourPilot Absolutely agree! You are lucky to have such skilled support people. In the beginning your videos were good, now they are amazing.
Is this flight simulator xplane 12 byw captain u teached me alot
@@keoshee007 *taught. That’s the correct past tense of teach. 😊 just trying to help
@@MentourPilot The big titles and fonts work well to highlight things to remember. They'll be flashing in my mind's eye during my next approach~!
Thank you for all the hard work on these episodes!
Thank you for watching them, I wouldn’t do it if it weren’t for you.
The captain shaking his head no was a nice touch. Great vid.
I recently discovered this channel. I have to say, for the kind of high resolution information I prefer when learning about this kind of stuff, this channel is definitely a step up from 74 Gear.
74 gear is a different type of channel.
I watch both and they both do things a little bit differently. Like Kelsey mostly does cargo on a 747, where as Petter does short trips on medium sized passenger aircraft. Petter is also a line training captin and he speaks fluent English (which is the language of the sky. English is also used for ships and pretty much everything else.
Similar subject, but GMT Greenwich Mean Time) is used for the ISS.
One is a reaction to videos, movies and the like. The other makes analysis. Both are good at what they do. But 74 Gear also doesn't aim to do what Petter does, so it's not comparable. A pear doesn't fail at being an apple because it doesn't try to be an apple. Both fruit and good in their own way.
Kelsey probably wouldn't use a chinese sponsor company that's been in so much hot water lately.
@@JBAutomotive794 Was the water bubbly and full of suds? I don't care about this guy's channel sponsors LOL. If they are responsible for the high resolution instrument displays and detail, don't you think it was worth it even if his sponsor is Chinese and likes to take a dip in the hot tub?
Petter's videos are simply superb. I've learnt so much watching them over the years.
I was into a conversation recently on your NOW! channel where we discussed various aviation channels. Yours wasn’t the first I ran into and started to follow, but just a few days ago there was a new video out from the first channel I was watching and I was so disappointed that I lacked all the details, all the background stories and the in-depth info that just someone with tons of inside info like you have.
Watching nice animations isn’t enough if there’s no story behind it, but you do give us “the full monty”.
I will not hint what accident was “covered” but I do hope it will end up on your channel.
I like that you highlighted “Confirmation Bias”. People do not realize how often it affects our lives on a daily basis. I’m very surprised that the first officer, after mentioning it to the Captain, then completely forgot about the inaccurate ILS beacon! It never seemed to enter his mind, even after nearly hitting the wind tower the first time! I would think it would be the first thing he would think about after almost hitting the tower…. Strange. Perhaps he really was fatigued, or maybe just really shaken up after the near miss.
I've got a bit addicted to watching these, despite not being a pilot or in aviation. The main thing I've learnt is that I would not be cut out to be a pilot of a commercial aircraft.
This is the most frightening one I've watched for a while. Because it shows that even with all of those safety processes in place, poor decision making by flawed human beings can undo it all. It made my blood run cold that they went in for the same landing a second time after narrowly avoiding the tower the first time. I appreciate these incidents are rare, and I'm glad these incidents are examined honestly and lessons learned where possible.
Agreed! How do you prepare for landing on a runway you don't see? Yikes.
Another great video. Nice work to you and your team!
Thanks my friend.
Another great episode. To the persons doing the visuals now, well done, watching evolution of this channels presentation has been fun, and they were done so well in this episode I didn't even notice how crappy the snow effects were!!. Love first person head animations we're doing now with the narration, good stuff, thanks team.
The animation of clearing the path from the plane remains so the passengers didn't have to wade in the snow gave me a chuckle
You do such an amazing job of putting all these videos together in such clear and concise ways that even make sense to non pilots like myself!
I don't know how you find time and energy to do these but they can't help but improve safety awareness for everyone! Great job Mentour Pilot!!! 👏 Thank you sir!
Halfway through the video I was afraid there was loss of life. So relieved when it turned out no one had perished...
Plane was a complete writeoff, I would imagine.
I used to be an FA on the ERJ145, it was a great little workhorse but man did some passengers freak out when they stepped inside and saw how tiny it was. Being that there's only 1 flight attendant on that type of aircraft, there is a little extra feeling of responsibility since it's only you back there. If anything goes wrong there's up to 50 people staring at you looking for reassurance.
I must say I allways enjoy your content. Even tough I have nothing to do with aviation, but your skill to explain stuff to people is just amazing. Best wishes from Germany.
PS: Another interesting crash to look at in my option would be the Lübeck Air Disaster (Travel Air Accident) because the copilot that was involved in the crash already survived a crash on the German motorway years before (Paninternational Flight 112) and was one of the first female German pilots.
Oh yes, wasn’t she the first female in Germany to become a commercial pilot? If I recall she was the one who managed to get the stricken BAC-111 onto the highway after it was found the ground crew mistakenly put kerosene instead of water in the engine injection tank (water injection being commonly used to boost engine thrust in the days of low-bypass turbofans). It’s a fascinating pair of stories!
That does sound interesting! Petter is especially good at piecing together the factors that led to accidents, and a second accident would be a rich field for him.
as
Doucheland
What does it contribute to the story that she had survived a crash on the Autobahn? Do you expect Petter to talk about automobile pilots? 😅
I love this channel!! Your technical explanations are fantastic, but the real gem is how you are able to weave it together with the human/communication side... even most technical errors in the end seem to be communciation-based (including corrupt practices and cultures where deference is a thing), such as the Royal Air Maroc one where they weren't recording technical failures properly and the maintenance crews were unable to locate the exact cause of the malfunctions.
Some localisers have a Far Field Monitor that monitors the signal prior to the threshold. If the FF monitor sees the signal as offset by a certain margin, it'll first give a warning and the worse the margin it'll shut down the localiser. But I believe that's system dependant.
Not a Cat I Localizer.
Hey man! I’ve been on a binge with your videos after finding your channel a few days ago. I love your content, it is really great and you navigate tragic events respectfully.
I love hearing professionals talk about their craft!
I have always loved documentaries on aviation but yours got to be the best I have found! You outshine all the “professional” tv network content I have seen on the same topics. I do not know if RUclips is your full time job or if you are also a pilot but if you are that is just crazy!
You are very great at explaining the complex things. I love the visuals! Because of my adhd I have a hard time following audio and they really help!
10/10 channel and content, have a good day!!
That’s awesome to hear!
Yes, I’m still working as a pilot but I’m on leave until April at the moment.
Thanks you for your kind feedback.
@@MentourPilot thank you for the quick reply, hope you enjoy your leave🥰
@@MentourPilot ...
Find fine...?
Fantastic video on many levels! Have always liked your videos but this one earned my subscription. So many great lessons to learn from this event and you highlighted them great with an amazing presentation
Excellent work man, thank you for your work and your team's work. Great devotion to piloting, I think I'll know more than my pilots next time I fly.
Thanks!
ILS beam deflection is an interesting phenomenon. The lower beam of most glide slopes is bounced off the ground and outwards at 3 degrees.
Normally the localizer is quite reliable but in winter a freezing rain over a snow pack will change the height of the signal bounce and throw it out of tolerance. This is typically picked up the monitoring system.
Not for systems with integral monitoring.
@@pyrethedragon can you identify which ILS those are and at what airport because I don't have that information available
@@larrydugan1441 I think the one in this video is a Thales Mark 20, which may not be equipment with a near field monitor.
I did look at the snow measurements taken during the investigation and it indicated that there was more snow on one side verses the other, which would have contributed to the shift in the centreline of localizer radiated signal.
@@pyrethedragon I don't know if the localizer can be affected by snow. When I was a tower controller we would lose the GP after a freezing rain on top of snow. I believe the ice layer formed would deflect the GP outside tolerances
Looking at the report, it's weird that no mention of the lights is made in terms of corrective actions.
- Why doesn't the remote activation system has any feedback at all? It shouldn't be difficult to change the system to have it play a pre-recorded message saying the current light level after each change (and repeat it every minute or so).
- Additionally, procedures could be changed so the lights are required to be on during snow.
These arnt standard incandescent bulbs or LED's that you can leave on 100% duty cycle. More likely mercury vapor lighting that requires off cycle time to cool down. Since you do.t want them blinking off, you dial back the intensity to prevent them from over heating and getting damaged.
Request: Japan Airlines flight 123, Air France flight 447, Ansett Australia Airlines flight 881, El Al flight 1862, British European Airways flight 548, Fine Air flight 101
All in the pipeline
I’d love an insight of the Air France 447 accident!
@@MentourPilot just a few requests 😆
AF447 is promised in December as I remember
Also Swiss Air 111 and TWA800
I love every video relased on this channel. Not only are we informed and entertained. We each also take a lesson that we can apply to our own life/career. Thank you Petter!
I love aviation and these RUclips posts serve a good reminder of how pilots and maintenance staff need to work to keep passengers safe
Some fascinating parallels between this accident and Colgan 3407 ten years prior. To wit:
- Both Captains had serious blemishes on their records including check-ride failures citing poor judgement and weak skills, with each receiving disciplinary letters.
- Both First Officers commuted over 1,000 miles from their homes (Colgan FO in Washington state, Commutair FO from Florida) in the 24 hours prior to the accident flights.
- Both First Officers had recently been and/or were still sick on the day of their respective accidents
- Both First Officers, upon arriving at EWR on their commutes, were under-rested with each having gotten approx 4-5 hours of sleep before starting their duty day.
- Both departures were out of EWR during the winter months.
- Both flights attempted approaches in marginal conditions.
- Both Captains in particular exercised woeful judgement and poor CRM (Colgan being far worse).
Of course the outcomes are vastly different but only due to sheer luck on the part of the Commutair crew who managed not to stalll on the TOGA and didn’t collide with anything after they missed the runway during their bellyflop into the grass.
The captain was the one with the training blemishes. The FO was just tired and didn't have hours required to be a captain. What this shows is that exahastion is equivalent to training inadaquices. Yet people hop into their 2.5 ton suv death machines all the time while tired. I'm glad we have finally gotten rid of the time switch in the USA, even though they are leaving the switch in the wrong position.
Indeed. Seems to be while reading your list nothing was learned from the Colgan Air Crash. Unfortunately.
Most important difference: All People on board of this plane and also on the ground stayed alive.
I wouldn’t put so much emphasis on past failed sims and checks, especially so early in one’s career. If every sim is failed and repeated, or line flying shows dangerous habits or questionably decisions then that’s far more important when looking at an air crash like this one.
@@RowanHawkins There has been discussion about abolishing daylight saving time (DST) in the United States, but I did not realize that this had been implemented. I know Hawaii and Arizona do not observe DST, but to the best of my knowledge, the rest of the country still does. When will the time change stop being implemented?
Excellent video. I was just thinking about the importance of speaking up about problems in all situations and how, in many industries, whistleblowers are just treated as annoying troublemakers. For example, the Challenger Space Shuttle disaster could’ve been prevented if NASA bosses had listened to, and taken action to deal with, concerns about the likely failure of the O rings at very low temperatures. But they were too keen to stick to the launch date and didn’t want to delay it. So the inevitable happened. But it had been predicted by Roger Boisjoly six months before the accident. How arrogant and reckless to push ahead with the launch despite known issues that could and did kill seven astronauts. Listen to the whistleblowers!
It was actually brought up by one of the engineers in a briefing the day before the launch, but he was bullied into backing down by his superior 😕
Or if they had actually listened to the engineers who said: don't launch in the cold, we never tested it in the cold.
@@nevilleneville6518 The Challenger disaster was another classic case of get-there-itis. Due to the media attention being paid to this launch, because of the Teacher in Space Project, NASA management really didn't want to delay or, worse, scrub, the launch.
The really sad part is that test results dating back to 1977 showed a flaw in the design of the O-rings, but neither NASA nor Morton Thiokol addressed it.
The lesson I learned from this is: screw the bosses; listen to the engineers.
@@johnopalko5223 Get-there-itis and normalization of deviance. They had O-ring erosion and blow-by in pretty much all previous flights, but it still worked. So they said: If the amount of O-ring erosion of the last flight wasn't worse than any previous flight it's fine.
Until that one day, where outside temperatures were at a record low and upper level winds were at a record high.
I can only recommend reading the Rogers Commission for anyone who is interested in all the small details that lead to the Challenger accident and how it could have been prevented.
Excellent video as usual. Not following go-round criteria is even critical for little GA guys-I fly a 1946 Aeronca Champ strictly for fun and with only 65 hp, on a hot day, persisting to “fix” a bounced landing on a short runway with trees at the end can be a fatal mistake. Thus I have a “bounce equals go-round” rule for those circumstances. But there is a grey area where the runway isn’t really short and the trees aren’t high-which can place you, say on a gusty swirling crosswindy (i.e., busy hand/feet) day into a one-second go-no go judgment situation under high workload circumstances. (Yes workload can be high even in a Champ if you’ve got a gusty swirling crosswind on a hard surface narrow runway with buildings and trees all around.) I try to default to “hey pal just go-round,” i.e., always going around when in any doubt so I don’t have to risk whether the one-second call will be sound. I mean why NOT go-round? I always have plenty of fuel…
Seems I read in a comment here or somewhere else the adage, "Expect a go-around, be happy if a landing results". Seems like a good way to think about it. From watching these videos it can be hard for some pilots to switch their mindset from landing to go-around because they weren't thinking about it. Probably hard to keep both ideas in mind at the same time, but sounds like a good idea to always imagine that you might be doing a go-around. Not doing so could be why it's hard for some pilots to break out of the landing attempt. Especially hard when the runway is right there in front of them and they believe that they can make it. So it's better to have a rule that you always follow. Your bounce equals go-around rule is exactly the type of thinking they should have in mind, xxx feet no runway we go around, not stable approach by x miles we go around, etc. Obviously for a commercial pilot those are already rules, but seems like some pilots need to commit themselves to following the rules no matter what, no matter how good the landing prospects seem.
Training in any field is crucial. I was hired at a company and quickly promoted due to my experience. One of my trainers pointed out that it was very important not to rock the boat. My response was that I couldn't do that. The only boat that isn't rocking is the one not moving. I was always respectful but I was always making changes that kept us growing and getting better.