Perennial problem of 3rd conditional usage. If/in case + would is not correct in most cases. IF this HAPPENED, the pilot WOULD CHANGE his decision. IN CASE a fire BROKE out, they would have to...... Please stop it!
As an accomplished commercial pilot it always astounds me when so called 'professional' pilots think they are smarter than the accumulated knowledge from many decades of accidents. This knowledge is embodied in the check lists, and to ignore it means you have little to no regard for the safety of your aircraft and the lives of the passengers that you are entrusted with. I think it's fair to say that there are good pilots and bad pilots (I have seen many of both). However, in aviation we always prefer to to minimize blame and focus instead on making changes to increase safety. This is to facilitate a no penalty culture for reporting incidents and issues, which leads to making aviation more safe in the long run. This incident had a high likelihood of turning out badly, but through the grace of god and good luck, they landed safely. Hopefully the Captain and flight crew were given significant training afterwards to 'reset' their mindset.
Reminds me of the scene in Madagascar 2 “Sir, we may be out of fuel. Skipper: What makes you think that? Kowalski: We've lost engine one, and engine two is no longer on fire.”
@@davesing Asymmetric thrust, the fact that some aircraft systems receive power from generators in only one engine, you get to fly higher at faster speeds. But I do agree that in this case, running the affected engine could have ended badly.
I think on April Fools it would be funny if Mentour Pilot did an entire video at the same really high production quality of a normal flight. Like, even have red herrings about maintenance, weather, turbulence, or anything else… but the plane keeps flying and makes a safe, drama-free landing. Honestly, if there was even a focus on everyone performing their roles well and following procedures the way they are written, it would be a demonstration on just how safe commercial aviation is because each thing that happens in the video would be handled appropriately.
Ahahaha, brilliant. Like: "[...] and remember that decision about the flap configuration, because it will become very important soon". 10 minutes after: "[...] remember the flap configuration decision? It was the absolute correct one, so, as I said, very important.
@@MentourPilot compilation of most absurd/unnecessary/funny, mayday/pan pan calls. like "mayday code brown" in some cessna. would be good too, maybe for second channel.
it’s something that feels counterintuitive at first but then makes complete sense once I think about it. pilot or not, anyone can walk away from that advice and find it helpful the next time they’re a leader in something.
Wouldn’t the least experienced person also likely be the one who most recently had training? I could see them saying “well the first thing on there is ‘land the plane.’” Which would also make the senior pilot have to work a lot harder to justify not doing so.
It is a great idea and one I have used to help new team members feel engaged and introduce possible 'out of the box' scenarios that may have positive or negative repercussions that, by habit, are not considered. It makes everybody think.
Common practice in USAF meetings I've participated in. Let the junior officers go first since they would be hesitant to speak and contradict the senior officers.
The part where the experienced purser decided to prepare the cabin for a potential evacuation, even though the captain said it wasn’t necessary, really stood out! Her instincts and quick thinking were a true lifesaver. Respect for her experience and foresight!
Yes, 100%! I'm so glad Petter mentioned it even though it wasn't needed in the end. He very easily could have left her role out of the story, but knowing that she and the cabin crew were prepared for a worse outcome speaks volumes about the importance of layers of safety culture. If any of a thousand little factors had been different, her decision could have saved many lives. I hope she was properly thanked for her action.
When I heard that part, my first thought was that the purser probably had a lot of experience dealing with arrogant men who think they know everything.
@@IdliAmin_TheLastKingofSambar I think she knew when the response letter had an Air France logo on the top. Many people I know think Air France has the worst pilots in Europe, even people from France.
16:13 It isn't underlined. Everyone knows that red, bold and capitalized is only "recommended". 😜🤪🤭🥴 Edit: this is sarcasm for all you who couldn't figure that out. 🤦🤦♀️🤦♂️
Is it an actual real fuel leak (where you have to follow procedures}, if you lose less than 20% overall? Perhaps it can be classified into a minor fuel leak, where you only have to follow part of the procedures?
I worked 20 years in the corporate world before going in my business. While i was an engineer, I always had a dominant boss who imposed his ideas as best options and never listened to others, including us. It was very frustrating for everybody, and despite his failures, never did he listen. When he left, i was the best option the organization had, and 7 years as a leader, i ensured that all different ideas were gathered on how to execute our project before decision making. To my own surprise, many young, inexperienced engineers would at times come up with something that seniors and experiences never thought of, and i executed 25 projects with my team with zero failures. Wish the Captain had open mind to listen to his colleagues, but he was arrogant and risked the life of his pax throughout and stayed arrogant until the last minute of taking turns without a shutting engine, continuing the risk furthermore.
yup, as a 30 year experienced heating engineer, I took on my 16 year old son as an Apprentice. He watched me do a thing (the same way I had always done it ) then suggested a MUCH more efficient way to do it. Lesson learned that day!
That´s exactly the point. Stating to the First Officer, who was Pilot Flying, that it would be his decision to shut the engine down and continuing that he wouldn´t allow to shut the engine down is a strange indication of this arrogance. It was pure Luck that this Flight didn´t end in a huge Fireball.
Vlad, retired Transport Canada Aircraft Certification Engineer: I was sitting on the edge of my seat while watching this video, being afraid, that at any instant during the flight and landing engine will caught fire. I was astonished by totally irrational thinking and action of the crew. This is the case of very bad assessment of the situation by three very experienced pilots. They were very lucky. And yes the purser was the only one who was acting rationally by preparing passengers for the emergency evacuation and giving clear instruction in that regard. Peter, I like your very descriptive and clear story telling with specific attention to the important details.
When I heard Petter say that they didn't know which pilot carried out the walk around, my first thought was, "I guess none of the flight crew survived to be interviewed by the investigators. This one is going to end badly."
Some of the lessons learned today; - Don't be smarter than the procedures put in place. - Let the least experienced member in the group give their opinion first. - Beware of "group think" - `Where the desire for harmony and conformity inside of a group becomes more important than individual differing opinions and therefore leads to flawed decision making` - Don't let your personal preferences get in the way of objective decision making Thank you for all these wonderful lessons sir. I learn real valuable stuff on this channel every time I watch (which is everytime you upload🙂). I don't work in the aviation industry but these lessons guide me in my everyday life. I do really love commercial aviation now though. Thanks to Mentour Pilot
@@NuclearSavety And when the list of emergency procedures has been exhausted (and assuming that the plane is still flying) and the problem has not been resolved or given the best available response: Start again, starting from the most seemingly simple and escalate from there, being mindful of the emergency scripted procedures and the point or points where the scripted procedure is not producing a fix or better understanding of the problem. But in this case, of course, if they had followed the checklist and shut down the #1 engine, both the cause of the fuel loss and the potential of that big leak leading to a fire would have been mitigated. Especially in light of the fact that an in-flight fire is orders of magnitude, a worse result than shutting down an engine. These guys and their passengers were amazingly lucky, they didn't cause a fire, by not shutting down the engine. If they had shut down the engine and the problem didn't go away, the leak had to be somewhere else in the port side fuel system. But once a stream of fuel was identified as coming from the port engine, a stream that was responsible for the loss of tons and tons of fuel, the failure to shut down the engine becomes almost inexplicable. It is just sheer luck and happenstance, the pilot's actions did not result in a fire.
An unspoken lesson is to put these into practice straight away so they become second nature in normal times so when its abnormal you fall back on these habits by default not let them be overridden by other habits.
I hugely appreciate these videos more and more because they are not click baity focus on catastrophic disasters, but more focusing on incidents where the outcome was successful overcoming of problems where everyone ended up safe and sound, but with Petter’s attention to detail on the problems that arose and how other pilots that watch these videos can learn little lessons from them. And of course this makes me as an average passenger feel more and more safe each flight knowing the education that pilots receive from each of these such incidents and that Petter is helping spread the learnings far and wide! Thank you once again sir!
@@MentourPilot gotta say I really liked how you explained the time that one plane crashed into Mount Erebus. The circumstances around that are... exceptionally strange.
It’s fascinating to me, the psychology of decision-making that would lead people to say “how can I maneuver around the checklist to get the result I want?” without stopping to ask themselves WHY the checklist says what it says. I’d like to think that in such a moment of crisis, I’d say to myself “maybe the people who wrote the checklist know something I don’t know”, but I also know I’m not immune to the cognitive biases that affect all humans. Thanks for another great video!
The only thing done correctly in this was the early monitoring of the fuel. Once it was noticed a ton of it was missing, the checklists become the rules. There should be no ambiguity about that. It also points out that a good pilot can identify issues long before the automation. But a good pilot also acts upon the information rather than pretending it doesn't exist.
To the point. You know it's the same with driving and the road signs. You travel a long straight road, you see long kilometers of the asphalt before you, and suddenly there is a road sign limiting speed to 50 km/h. Your first and intuitive reaction might be that this is an absurd. Long, straight road ahead just makes you step on the gas, right? And only the other thought may become helpful: WHY in such beautiful scenery someone warns me to travel very slow instead of fuul speed..?
Something poetic about the engine being so saturated with fuel that it prevented a devastating fire. The captain's bad decisions came together and cancelled each other out
On about letting the least experienced person to speak out. As an forklift mechanic for 32 years now I always listen to the input from others because they sometimes have a different perspective on the problems I have to solve and sometimes they come up with something I haven’t thought about. Keep up the good work Peter !!
Oh goodness. What a captain! I love these videos by MentourPilot. I am a 70 y/o woman that has been watching his videos for over three years. The first year, I was almost completely lost as he explained the airplane's technical, electrical, and mechanical details involved. I also watched about 6 months worth before I could understand all of his words because of his accent. Now, I am not criticizing - I absolutely LOVE his accent and listening to him (that was the main reason I came back to watch the second video.) I no longer struggle to understand his English. (I admire those that have learned English as an additional language to their birth language. I took a bit of Spanish in school, but as I didn't keep up with it I can now say very little in any language but English.) Slowly I learned enough by listening to his explanations to MINIMALLY understand the workings of the airplane. At the beginning and for the first 5 minutes or so, I was afraid this was going to be a fatal disaster, but gradually picked up on the possibility that it wasn't going to be fatal as I listened more to his explanations. I have to say, though, as the captain's decision-making was detailed, I began shaking my head slowly back and forth. I continued to shake my head throughout the last 5 minutes or so. MentourPilot does such an amazing job of explaining each action, decision, and possible reason for the decision and the decision's possible consequence, This captain, I hope, was taken back into training on decision-making and was instructed to watch MentourPilot's videos to learn how to properly conduct the "group decision-making process" in order for it to actually work, before he was allowed back into the cockpit. Thank you for making these videos - so detailed and I am always glued to the video for the duration and enjoy learning more each time. I also enjoy the many comments, so many pilots contribute and I learn from each one. I tried the other day to watch someone else's video on airline accidents and quickly turned it off - just no one does it like MentourPilot.
During my career, all the aircraft I flew incorporated "Expanded Checklists" in a back section of the manuals. These included extra information about the reason each step is being taken. In this case it would definitely highlight the fire risks associated with the situation and probably also mention that if a fire in an engine cowl should start burning outside of the normally-assumed region where the fire-suppression systems work, this could be an uncontrollable fire. I wonder if these "Expanded Checklists" still are part of the pilot's operational manuals. Another well-produced Training Video here - thanks Petter.
Yes I've often thought that having the reasoning given for checklists would make alot of sense and have avoided alot of the problems that come up in mentours reviews. It's all very well having a group of experts hide in a room and issue edicts but without an understanding of what the reasoning was it's alot harder to work out if there's something specific that doesn't apply or does apply to the particular situation the crew i sin.
@@tomriley5790 As Raymond Chen (a Microsoft developer) put it in his blog - good advice comes with a rationale, so you can understand when it becomes bad advice. As this checklist case shows, a rationale can also help you understand WHY good advice is good!
i can't remember the jet type, but there was an incident where deploying the reversers basically directed the fire toward the cabin, acting like a blow torch...
@@tomriley5790 I don't disagree with your comment, only suggest that during a possible emergency is not the time to learn the rationale behind an instruction or check-list action. I would hope that all pilots receive instruction in all of these procedures during their training. That is the time for the rationale to be explained and understood. Looking at this from a registered nurse's viewpoint - for example: if I am working with a patient that is having difficulty breathing to the point that the patient is turning blue and gasping for breath, that is not the time for me to pull out the hospital's procedure manual and look through 300 pages of procedures to learn why I need to give the patient oxygen, apply monitors, and give assisted breathing if needed. I should have learned the reasons during my education. Also, in every hospital I've worked in, we nurses were each given a 2-3 inch thick procedure manual/notebook to become familiar with before we were out of orientation. A previous commenter said something about following procedure FIRST and then find out why something is happening. As MentourPilot has said multiple times - keep the plane flying first, then problem-solve. In my way of thinking, the Captain should have followed the procedure first, then figured out why it said to shut the engine off and land ASAP. Sounds like he could have gotten those explanations from the other two pilots in the cockpit with him if he had allowed their input.
Ah yes, the "bigger" risk of shutting off an engine, that is something you are trained for and the checklist tells you to do in bold red font vs. the "small" unforeseen risk of flammable fuel leaking out somewhere. The captain is truly the decision maker of the century. Love the videos, keep it up!
Yeah.. but, as always, it’s easy to sit in an office or sofa, judging crew who make mistakes. I make these videos, not to assign blame but to show where we can learn
@MentourPilot True. I just found it found it funny, but other than that, I don't care about blaming him for it, I'm not a pilot in that situation after all. I just love to see any improvements to procedures that come from these incidents that you always list
It was not unforeseen, it is foreseeable. The problem was the checklist did not make clear the reasons why so they did their own risk assessment without taking into account this serious risk. With risk, it is not just he probability of something occurring but the severity if it does happen. Although in this case the probability of a fire could not be considered small and the severity is very high if it does happen.
@@user-xu5vl5th9n That makes me wonder: which amount of the reasons should a checklist explain? Giving more reasons may help the crew, at some later point, in case the checklist ever runs out and the crew is then forced to improvise. Giving fewer reasons, focussing on just the instructions, makes the text shorter - can that maybe save time when reading the checklist and improve efficency and speed when implementing it? For example, reading "leaking fuel might be at risk of igniting" in an emergency checklist could perhaps cause me to think "Hear, hear! Who would have thought _that_ ... Wow thanks, Captain Obvious!" hence distracting me from the task at hand. I have definetly run into some manuals that were hard to use because they were excessively long and excessively wordy (i have no experience with airplane manuals though). Is there a tradeoff between conciseness and clarity here? I'm definitely used to that kind of tradeoff as a software engineer working on software documentation.
I've watched so many "no survivors" videos of this channel, that every "landed safely" feels so calming and reliefing. I really like that everyone is safe in the end, it is a fascinating way of storytelling where he first makes you imagine all the horrors that could be and then gifts you the "happy ending"
Even so, I was puckering harder all the time, hearing the shark music in my head getting louder, watching the swimmer who was ignorant of the danger below getting closer and closer, nearly in tears when they taxied up to the gate, unscathed.
I've avoided flying on Air France since the disaster of Fl 747 from Rio to Paris, which was unquestioabley a failure of safety culture among Air France pilots. This vodeo certainly confirms that decision.
I can't blame your decision. I think this 'maverick' pilot culture runs deep within Air France (especially on long-haul flights where the pilots are older and more often former air force demi-gods who think they are too smart to slavishly follow procedure).
@@melainekerfaou8418 Can't recall the exact source but a study was done and former air force pilots, specifically fighter pilots potentially make for poor airline pilots. This is due to high emphasis on mission completion and acceptance / praise for very high risk taking. Obviously this can be unlearned through good crm and training.
i used to fly with air france regularly many years ago and found them a good customer focused company. then i worked with someone who had worked with them in simulator training, and his experience with their air crew demonstrated air france had a horrific cultural problem with their air crew that they company was unwilling to address. never flown with them since
The problem with improvising with very tight systems is that once you start to improvise, you go off the beaten path and usually can't get back. Then you will need to improvise more and more, until you realize the problems exceed your capacity to handle them. Improvisation should only be attempted when there are no reasonable alternatives and you just have to do something. Also, if at any point you feel like "just delete the whole ECAM screen" is the right choice, reconsider your whole situation very carefully.
it's like with letters, if you start getting letters from a ton of overdue bills or even collection agencies and the only decision you come to is to rip them up and pretend they didn't exist, something else has gone deeply wrong
Indeed. If you deviate and SOPs and it goes badly then you're in hot water, whereas if you stick to SOPs and it goes wrong then at least it's not your fault.
The tendency for air France captains to take rest period just before disasters (see also AF447) is astonishing. In my past 19000+ flight hours I've never left the fligt deck if the situation was less than completely normal.
Infatti i piloti italiani sono i migliori (dico davvero), gli equipaggi dell'Alitalia sono tra i più esperti e professionali dei cieli e io mi affido a loro in qualsiasi situazione. Air france è vergognosa da molti punti di vista invece.
The combination of technology and psychology is always so interesting in these videos. I love how I'm learning about how different aircraft work, which is super interesting but not really relevant to my life, and also how human brains work, which is relevant to everyone. I feel like I'm learning to be a better thinker each time I watch one. The captain not following the checklist because he didn't fully understand the purpose of it is so frustrating from my sofa but so understandable too. I find a lot of really "wtf" decisions people make in my (very much not a pilot) work are due to not understanding the point of the procedure - it's hard to make a good guess on what you’re supposed to do if you don't know why you're doing it. (Which is obviously why all the checklists and SOPs - we shouldn't be basing our choices on individuals guessing all the time.) The pilots here think they're making good choices, but the captain is leading the whole discussion while missing such a vital piece of the picture, so their decison making is just so flawed. (Also, the camera moving up and down and side to side in the empty cockpit when the pilots were discussing what they were going to do made me smile so much. Your team are the best ❤) You're so good at this, and it's always a gift to have one more voice of reason and nuance and curiosity out there. Thank you for doing what you do ❤
Petter's emphasis on the human element in these videos is so important. I don't work on anything directly related to aviation, or as immediately life-and-death, but it makes me think a lot about similar situations occurring in my own work. Groupthink, the tendency for the less-experienced to defer to authority, confirmation bias and the tendency to keep going on rails once you've made a decision... these are relevant to anyone.
I am French, working in a totally different industry, but we also follow procedures, heavily document processes and take lessons learned seriously. It is true that we French tend to bend the rules when we believe it makes more sense. When we *believe*. Meaning we tend to rely on our intellect more than on processes. It is more satisfying to us. It makes us feel alive. We love "Outsmarting" the rules. Which was driving my German colleagues crazy when I was working with them. Not sure the pilot will have learned something. At the end of the day, the plane was landed, no fire took off, passengers disambarked safely. It may be possible that the pilot will think that that's a lot of fuss for a chain of decisions and actions that led to a succesfuk landing, after all. Who knows. Maybe he will have learned a lesson.
I flew many types in the RAF from 1976 to 1989 and appreciate your considered and logical approach on aviation matters. Looking forward to many more of your insights. Cheers from a rather Chilly Otford, Kent, UK.
I work as a Quality Assurance manager in food production, and very often I'm the only one in the room that has the procedures in hand telling everyone why we NEED TO keep something on hold and the risks involved with putting any possibly dangerous items out into the world. I have had to leave 2 jobs in 21 years due to companies putting profits over safety (sadly one of those companies sold food to schools in 22 different states, I hope they have made the proper corrections since I left 🙏)
Somewhere out here there are hundreds of thousands of people who didn't get a nasty stomach bug because you did the right thing, and probably a handful who did not become disabled or die due to something going wrong with food. ... there's a medical channel named 'ChubbyEmu' which details things that generally don't but can happen with food contamination. So you've probably prevented someone from being wheeled into the ER and then later, wheeled out.
"I hope they have made the proper corrections since I left" Well if they didn't make those changes when someone who actually thought they needed to be made was there...
@NightKev Yes, I couldn't make them, but the FDA has much more sway than any employee, too many complaints or a serious sickness and they'd be shut down and MADE to get things done.
@@NightKev Yes, more than once, I was told they would "investigate", I've heard there was a huge backlog back then (2016) so I do not know if they ever uncovered anything. They would have also had to catch many of the issues WHILE they were taking place. I offered some emails that discussed the horrible situation, but they told me they can't use them, and they'd be in touch. Never heard back.
One important technical correction for you Peter, at 45:00 when you reference the braking, your technical editor keeps showing the “alternate parking brake “ indicator. That braking system is not used for landing unless the normal braking is INOP. That pressure indicator doesn’t indicate normal brake pressure, only alternate. Your technical editor also showed it another time earlier in the video, when you may have been discussing landing data and distance to the “ shortened “ runway at the alternate . Just an FYI
@@johnjoseph3667Its RUclips, of course it is, especially now that it allows creators to create two thumbnails/titles and see which one brings the most views 🤷
"Air France should put compliance with procedures back in the centre of the company's safety culture" [where it belongs] -- ouch. THAT'S a SLAP down. Wow. I'm glad the purser's preparations proved to be needless. This could have ended SO very badly.
I think letting the least experienced person speak first also helps build confidence for that person later in their career. They won't feel as inclined to "stay quiet" if they notice a problem.
Boss, I did binge watch your whole channel two three times over the last month. Thanks for the hard work. I even listen to your channel in my sleep which is funny because I have random aviation facts in my brain that I have no idea where it comes from! Thanks again
As a leading engineer on the software part of a larger product development project I strive to use the lessons from the aviation industry. For instance, the accident on Tenerife really taught me to accept and expect me to be wrong every now and then, to create an environment where I at any time can be challenged and encouraging my collogues to do so. PIOSE/FORDEC is another lesson. This video gave me the added tool of letting the less experienced speak up first. Thank you.
Oh my god this one made me STRESSED. Usually I empathize with the pilot to some degree but by the end I was internally screaming JAIL even though no one wound up hurt! It very much seems like this flight avoided tragedy thanks to luck, and in spite of the captain's decisions. Of course as someone with no experience in the industry it's easy for me to judge, but the fact that he just kept putting the plane into risky positions for literally no reason is agonizing to watch.
I don't know. In-flight I rather watch something else. You never know if you're seated in proximity of an anxious passenger. Those people went a long way to get on a plane and I don't wanna make in any worse for them.
Being naturally anxious about flying…but needing to use the service often in my life…. I’ve found that learning all I can about the technology makes me feel more at ease when I fly. Watching and learning from your videos has made me a more relaxed and comfortable customer. THANK YOU for all the information you share. It’s made a HUGE difference!
I agree, it’s not the engineering or physics of flying that make me anxious, it’s human incompetence. All the safety features in the world can’t overcome an arrogant incompetent pilot or lazy mechanic.
Finally, the aircraft landed safely, and it's great to hear that everyone is alive. Regarding the captain's decision, it's something related to target fixation. The human mind is incredibly complex and difficult to understand.
@@amazer747 Indeed. But it doesn´t explain why the Captain refused against the checklist and all sense to shut down the engine and to divert to Youndé when it became clear that the Aircraft couldn´t reach Paris at this day.
I trained as a Locomotive Engineer in New Zealand for Kiwirail, 20 week's classroom and practical exams. In our handbooks for quick reference trouble shooting any instructions in Bold Red Capital's were to be undertaken straight away. Strange the Captain didn't adhere to this ruling.
We can say that in retrospect, but many people make simple mistakes like that in all things, professional and personal. Part of the reason constant training and reflection is so important, like with doctors needing to do that every year or so (think 3 is the longest period between checks and updated mandatory training).
It never ceases to amaze me of the depth of knowledge you have I’m a 22000 hour pilot with 11 type rating and I always learn so much from you Great work
@@MentourPilotThis video highlights what I love about the videos you and your team make! Whilst the incident was extremely serious, and gives insight on safety and how to better pilot and operate aeroplanes for any pilot, commercial or recreational (- highlighting things like the need to follow SOP’s, how best to follow P.I.O.S.E.E./F.O.R.D.E.C., & of course CRM!). There was no overly dramatic situation for the passengers, no tragedy & none of the ‘drama’ or ‘hysteria’ that is often reported by media outlets with regards to the aviation industry! (No wonder your channel is so often filled with the wonderful comments of nervous aviation passengers saying just how reassured and more at ease (or peaceful 🕊️), they feel about flying after watching your videos! Thanks so much again, Thank you for the wonderful, informative, interesting, and entertaining work you all create! Thanks so much again! 🧡🕊️✈️
I flew for the first time in 5 years the other day, the first time since discovering your content. In most ways, I now enjoy flying even more. But as we boarded the plane from the outside and I was seated near the aft and therefore had to walk past the beautiful aircraft, all of a sudden your voice came into my head: “The aircraft was a beautiful Boeing 737-800 in pristine condition” and for just a split second, I was terrified! Luckily it passed as fast as it came to me, and I had a lovely flight!
@@thomasmyers9128DEI doesn't mean not hiring the best and suitable candidate, it means spreading the net a little wider to places one might not have looked. It also means to stop assuming that someone non-traditional was someone not qualified, as that usually leads to them being treated poorly, and deciding this career isn't for them. My only complaint about DEI programs is that, using a US example, they focus too narrowly, and the brilliant white kid from rural West Virginia, with two poor crackhead parents, doesn't get the same DEI support as a brilliant person with the handicap that English wasn't their first language. The support they need will be different, but they both need extra support to succeed. But, by the same criteria, the black kid whose parents were both medical doctors won't need the same support as someone whose parents didn't go to college. And sometimes, one needs a rule-follower more than you need someone who comes up with creative improvisions. Railroads prefer hiring veterans, as they are used to following rules, even if they seem stupid, so sometimes, that's what you need. I will admit that some organizations have done DEI poorly, as a box checking exercise. This is what gives DEI a bad name.
@ …. In a dream… in a perfect world…. But what you described isn’t what is happening…. Harris is the perfect example of a DEI hire/pick……. Go watch the video of Biden claiming that’s what he was going to do ….. then he did it….
I am not a pilot, but rather a physician. I use the lessons taught in these videos in my profession with regards to checklists, teamwork and decision making. There are parallels here for any discipline. Keep the videos coming...
@@MentourPilot Absolutely true - learn something new every day. I've bumped this right to the top of my "Watch Later" list (too busy at moment) - fuel balance and cg management very close to my heart.
@@MentourPilot My assessment having watched nearly halfway *WHEN A LEAK IS CONFIRMED* Nothing more needs to be said. However I do also want to query how a pilot can do a walk-around without signing off on this check, for future traceability. And then at 32:20 the ECAM ALSO instructed the #1 ENG be shut down - ignored and msg deleted. And you think I will fly Air France again (AF447 still being fresh in my mind), the answer is NOT AF. 4-5 tons of fuel per hour normal burn 1.4 tons fuel missing after climb out - how on earth could that be in the fuel lines??? And 20 minutes later it was 2.1 tons missing. That is a fully confirmed fuel leak, so that's criminal negligence ignoring two explicit engine shut down commands.
@@AgravepasmonK En tant que belge, qui adore de taquiner ses voisins au sud; premierement, il blague et deuxièmement, vous devriez ouvrir votre esprit pour accepter certaines blagues sans être vexé. Troisièmemement, il n'a pas totalement tors si je prends mes expériences personnelles avec beaucoup de français, je ne dis pas que chaque français est comme ceci, par contre, il y en a un tas qui se comporte de cette manière assez fréquemment.
@@AgravepasmonK this answer just confirms our (probably all nations ever having worked with frenchmen) bias towards you folk (yes i generalise here, on purpose, though i realise some will not be like the bias) being stubborn, arrogant know-it-alls, that don't take input from anyone, other maybe then another frenchman. Maybe go home and think about how you and your mates behave towards foreigners and if that behaviour would confirm or undermine the bias? And if you are willing and able to make sure you undermine the bias as much as you can, so the bias could disappear.
The quality and effort you put into your videos is outstanding brother, it really helps to understand the stories in a really interactive way. Great job man.
If you're so worried about losing an engine on final and suddenly having to do a one-engine go around, you could just shut the engine down ahead of time and land on one engine, and then you know exactly where you stand...
Shutting Down the engine by the fuel handle would not have prevented the fuel leak, as the leak was at the engine/pylon fuel connector. Shutting down the engine by the fuel handle closes a fuel vale in the fuel control unit, mounted on the engine itself. So as the fuel pumps were still running, the fuel would still be purring out at the pylon connector. To stop the fuel leak they would have to depress the fire switch for the faulty engine. Activating the fire switch closes a fuel valve in wing leading edge, completely isolating the engine from fuel. My assumption is confirmed by the fact that they lost an additional 400 kg of fuel during taxi to the gate after the engine was shut down. Great work Petter, keep producing these videos 👍
You might be right, but in any case, they would have stopped the fire-risk. The fuel leak during the taxi-in could have happened up until the point they turned it off as well.
@@budwhite9591 Jet fuel is not particularly flammable, as odd as that may sound. It really needs to be atomized and at a high temp to burn. You can literally put out a cigarette in a cup of jet fuel and have next to no risk of setting it alight.
@@MentourPilot look at a schematic for the fuel system, and you will see that the fuel leak occurred before the fuel control unit, so closing the valve in the fuel cont. unit does not prevent this leak🫣
thx, was wondering the same thing since you need pressure in the system. turning of a valve means the system is still pressurized so depending on the leak, shutting of an engine won't always work. Afaik it's similar in other aircraft fueling systems, only pressing the fire switch will completly isolate the engine.
Have avoided Air France for many years and will continue to do so. Crash of Air France 447 alone is a horrifying indictment on their pilot training which is enough to scare me off that airline for life.
Interestingly enough the Airbus manuals at the time stated something to the effect that due to the nature of their fly by wire system with all its protections it was unnecessary to do upset recovery training.... Don't know how the lawyers missed that one....
This reminds me of hydraulic brake oil leaks in trucks (mostly heavily loaded). Most hydraulic oil is flammable and if it comes in contact with the hot brake discs/drums would result in brrake failure or fire inside the rims. Several accidents have happened like this in my hometown since its hilly with steep gradients. I cannot imagine how the captain disregarded a fuel leak in a running aircraft engine!!
I remember driving along a country road on a blue sky summer's day... and almost as suddenly as one blinks, I could see not much more than white through the windshield. After a minute or two of nervous driving at a sloths pace, it cleared and the cause revealed, stopped on an emergency siding; a couch bus doing an impressive impersonation of a military grade smoke generator, spewing dense smoke from the right back wheel house, with an eerie red glow seen through the smoke. Our thought over why, was that a brake pad had shifted onto the disc, heating it, and that brake fluid somehow had leaked, creating the dense smoke as it vaporized from the heat.
😮😮 You have no idea how much I wish I could get my boss to recognize the 'group think' that goes on in our team. A team of people who are more interested in getting along instead of making sound decisions is exhausting.
Got goose bumps a few times! …first time when you told us that the Purser prepped the cabin for a possible evacuation. This could have ended so incredibly different! Your comments in the video were awesome. Thank you.
With great love from Nigeria. Your analysis is too notch and I've really learned a lot... Safety first, following established procedures and a need to always have a second thought about situations. A great mentor indeed.
One of my old jobs we would have the guys that had most recently come on board and finished field training conduct the next field training for the next guys who come on board. With supervision from a senior of course. The reasoning we had was that the new guys would have the training the most fresh in their minds of all of us and would also have had the least amount of time to create their own workarounds and shortcuts or develop bad habits.
Actually, this idea is OLD. In Benedict's RULE FOR MONASTERIES, he suggests that the Abbot also for council from the youngest members of the community in community meetings because they may just have the best answer
AnothIster excellent video and thank you! I am not a pilot, but very much an aviation enthusiast. What I have found is that the lessons learned here and the safety mindset you talk about, plus many other items are applicable to many other professions and also in our personal lives.
I understand the necessity of in roll ads, but I appreciate the ways you go about inserting them into your videos. It feels less disruptive and for that, we thank you!
Brilliant insight, thank you! Having spent many years in the pharma industry emphasising the value of following SOPs for patient safety, it is wonderful to have such a dramatic and effective example of safety improvement for passengers.
Yes! I appreciate being able to check if I missed it or forgot it in the beginning of the video. Depending on the events of the incident, I often want to know when it happened.
@@amykathleen2 I had so many moments, when later in the video it goes "in year xx the FFA changed something" and im like: "damn, what date was the videos accident again?" 😅 One time I wanted to check on Wikipedia and spoiled the outcome of the video 🥲
That was another edge-of-the-seat tale Petter. So many 'What If's' involved. Fantastic story-telling as ever and whoever does the graphics was on the ball. Thank you again for an informative episode of the sort of emergencies you all make decisions on, so far from the ground. Cheers!
Guys, I thought it might be useful for non-professionals like myself to have a handy guide for translating some of Petter's technical terms. So I created this! "They were expecting a relaxed flight" - translates to "Hold on to yer butts, people! Shit's gettin' real!" "The Captain was known as having an autocratic leadership style" - translates to "Hey, do you remember the Sergeant from Full Metal Jacket...?" "It had recently undergone significant maintenance" - translates to "...And this is how the tail ended up falling off." "Remember that for later" - translates to "Yep, there's time to get a cup of tea, it's gonna be at least five minutes before the plane falls out of the sky." "...The single worst emergency that can happen to an aircraft" - translates to "Aw shucks, Jim, did we forget to attach the wings again?" "It's not a decision I would've made" - translates to "This f--kwit isn't qualified to drive a freakin' tricycle." Hope this helps! Let me know if I forget anything important.
"The Captain was extremely experienced" - translates to "unable to cope with deviation and has the decision-making skills of a startled kitten" "Only recently transitioned to this type" - translates to "will undoubtedly act like the controls in this jet are backward to every other jet" "A check Captain on the jumpseat" - literally every time this guy is mentioned in any air accident video, they save everyone by being the only person on board who knows how the plane works.
Every week or two, I patiently wait for these Case Study Videos. Thank for educating everyone here about the incidents and accidents. It helps a lot in training as well as in decision making.
I had to chuckle a little bit (because I'm warped). "An uncontrollable fire is probably the single worst emergency that can happen to an aircraft." Me: "And the second worst thing is any other type of fire." " ... 1 hour and 14 minutes after the crew had started the Fuel Leak procedure..." Me: "More like *noted* the fuel leak existed."
I've always been fascinated with aircraft, and I still am but haven't flown since 2002. I had a flight scheduled to go to UK Sept 11, 2001. We were delayed, obviously.. left 3 days later.. that was the safest flight I've ever had. I had 2 bad experiences after that and decided that I'm done flying, been cruising since then. I find these documentaries very interesting! Thank you!
Excellent video...and with an ideal outcome. Your presentation, Petter, is unmatched. Your narration in combination with excellent graphics which make the complex comprehensible results in informative and engaging content.
Man, I love this channel. I always wanted to be an NTSB investigator but my path led elsewhere. The American DC-10 crash at KORD in '79 when I was 10 was the first disaster I remember and it really affected me and made me want to investigate crashes. I was also at KDTW on the same day as the NWA MD-82 crash 8-16-1987. Missed it by one hour after dropping a friend off for a different flight. I drove on the same road it crashed on 30 minutes before.
Frankly baffling decision-making by the pilots in this one. It's both sad and hilarious that probably the only thing that saved this plane from a fiery explosion was that the engine became too soaked with leaking fuel.
31:20 it's so interesting how healthcare and aviation seem to use the same principles. as a pharmacist we're told to consider this when we talk to a patient or a technician because we want them to actually tell us what they think/feel, not just agree with us out of deference to authority
I have serious concerns about that captain’s decision making skills. He was essentially operating under “ we’re not on fire currently, so the engine must be safe to use”.
Glad everyone was ok in the end. It's still a bit disturbing to me that the Captain was fine with allowing the cabin crew to give ideas in certain situations as well as being aware of what's generally happening to the aircraft and still almost doom the aircraft. Was he ever interviewed? If so I would love to hear his reasoning for not shutting down the engine at all, not even when safely on the ground. And a final kudos to the head flight attendant. Had the aircraft caught fire shortly after landing her decision could have saved many lives.
I know how you emphasize that such cases are not about people but increasing safety and procedures in aviation, but if disregarding a first-action LAND ASAP on a non-normal checklist did not somehow led to the pilot being sacked, I honestly don't know what would do.
I am just so excited that you have loaded a new video. I feel like i have learned so much because of your videos. I hope that your peers really benefit from a more educated audience.
Was worried that I'd hear about an engine nearly the entire video, especially when the engine was increased to turn and those brake temps. So glad to see that nobody was even injured, just egos bruised with that blistering note at the end of the report.
It’s wild to just blow past a red Land ASAP instruction, especially since if you had that show up on the ECAM it would be absolutely unquestionable that a diversion was required immediately.
Thanks for one of your best videos! As a retired B-757/767 captain, i was extremely interested in this video. While I never experienced a similar incident, for which I am thankful, and grateful for the consistently high quality of maintenance on my airline (TWA), Peter's analysis was fascinating and to the point. I am particularly drawn to the notion of seeking input first from the least experienced crew member. I feel that this is an important and potentially valuable protocol. I had 32 years of post-Navy airline flying experience, of which 19 years were in the flight engineer position on B-727, CV-880, B-707, and L-1011 aircraft types. The one incident I had with the most serious safety implications was as an MD-80 captain with an overheated MD-80 elevator jackscrew which caused the alternate trim motor (used by the autopilot) circuit breaker to pop. After trouble shooting and re-setting the C/B. the autopilot elevator trim operated normally. When Alaska Airlines 261 crashed several months later from a frozen MD-80 elevator jackscrew, I realized that the incident that I had experienced was likely much more serious than I had thought at the time. The only checklist procedure involved was a general restriction to one C/B reset, which I observed. We were enroute to DCA (Washington D.C. Reagan Airport) and nothing was found by DCA Maintenance to explain the popped C/B. If I had known what I know now, I would have suspected excessive friction in the elevator jackscrew and diverted to land at the nearest suitable airport. The connection to this Air France story is that as pilots we cannot know what is causing a seemingly non-emergency problem while in flight, and we must consider the most serious possibilities in our decision-making.
I am a lifelong tinkerer and career mechanic, mostly busses, but including maintenance of small Beechcraft twins in the Army. When I read about the Alaska crash and how that crash occurred, I felt a mixture of shock, anger and disgust. A mechanic noted that there was a quantity of metal shavings being ground off of the horizontal stabilizer jack screw shaft or the actuator the jscrew operated, likely both. At some point, given the loads that are on a horizontal stabilizer jack screw shaft, a total failure was inevitable. To jetdrivertwo's point about not understanding full implications: We are forced to rely on the hope, that the people on whom we rely, have done their jobs. And in the case of a single-point, total failure of the aircraft, end item, that it matters to the repair shop and the company it serves, that people's lives are directly connected to those jobs being done correctly.
What a great video! An event I wouldn't have known about, but with so many interesting details, and obviously a great example of why pilots using both, crm and their available information and checklists is so important.
Use the code "pilot" and this link 👉 incogni.com/pilot to get a whopping 60% off the Annual Incogni plan!
Please do DHL 611 and BTC 2937 mid air collision 💥 in Germany 🇩🇪
Is everything ok there in Spain?
Hey if u r ever in Los Angeles go eat at the proud bird. Great place to eat n plane watch. Trust me. U will dig it.
Perennial problem of 3rd conditional usage. If/in case + would is not correct in most cases. IF this HAPPENED, the pilot WOULD CHANGE his decision. IN CASE a fire BROKE out, they would have to...... Please stop it!
As an accomplished commercial pilot it always astounds me when so called 'professional' pilots think they are smarter than the accumulated knowledge from many decades of accidents. This knowledge is embodied in the check lists, and to ignore it means you have little to no regard for the safety of your aircraft and the lives of the passengers that you are entrusted with. I think it's fair to say that there are good pilots and bad pilots (I have seen many of both). However, in aviation we always prefer to to minimize blame and focus instead on making changes to increase safety. This is to facilitate a no penalty culture for reporting incidents and issues, which leads to making aviation more safe in the long run. This incident had a high likelihood of turning out badly, but through the grace of god and good luck, they landed safely. Hopefully the Captain and flight crew were given significant training afterwards to 'reset' their mindset.
Reminds me of the scene in Madagascar 2 “Sir, we may be out of fuel.
Skipper: What makes you think that?
Kowalski: We've lost engine one, and engine two is no longer on fire.”
😂😂
Thank you for flying Air Penguin
What possible avionic advantage would there be for not shutting down the affected engine? It seems to absolutely ignore logic.
@@davesing Asymmetric thrust, the fact that some aircraft systems receive power from generators in only one engine, you get to fly higher at faster speeds.
But I do agree that in this case, running the affected engine could have ended badly.
Reminds me of Air Transat 236: same fcking A330 and same fckng overcomplicated fuel system that failed....
I think on April Fools it would be funny if Mentour Pilot did an entire video at the same really high production quality of a normal flight. Like, even have red herrings about maintenance, weather, turbulence, or anything else… but the plane keeps flying and makes a safe, drama-free landing.
Honestly, if there was even a focus on everyone performing their roles well and following procedures the way they are written, it would be a demonstration on just how safe commercial aviation is because each thing that happens in the video would be handled appropriately.
Hahaha! That’s a great idea
ha. I just said exactly the same thing.
Ahahaha, brilliant. Like: "[...] and remember that decision about the flap configuration, because it will become very important soon". 10 minutes after: "[...] remember the flap configuration decision? It was the absolute correct one, so, as I said, very important.
😂 all the alternates never used. Mentions of the landing margins, the small NOTAMS that didn't do anything to the plans.
@@MentourPilot compilation of most absurd/unnecessary/funny, mayday/pan pan calls. like "mayday code brown" in some cessna. would be good too, maybe for second channel.
Loved what you said about letting the least experienced person give their opinion and ideas first.
it’s something that feels counterintuitive at first but then makes complete sense once I think about it. pilot or not, anyone can walk away from that advice and find it helpful the next time they’re a leader in something.
A lot of airlines use it exactly this way
Wouldn’t the least experienced person also likely be the one who most recently had training? I could see them saying “well the first thing on there is ‘land the plane.’” Which would also make the senior pilot have to work a lot harder to justify not doing so.
It is a great idea and one I have used to help new team members feel engaged and introduce possible 'out of the box' scenarios that may have positive or negative repercussions that, by habit, are not considered. It makes everybody think.
Common practice in USAF meetings I've participated in. Let the junior officers go first since they would be hesitant to speak and contradict the senior officers.
The part where the experienced purser decided to prepare the cabin for a potential evacuation, even though the captain said it wasn’t necessary, really stood out! Her instincts and quick thinking were a true lifesaver. Respect for her experience and foresight!
And the fact we know they did that, gave away that they survived
Yes, 100%! I'm so glad Petter mentioned it even though it wasn't needed in the end. He very easily could have left her role out of the story, but knowing that she and the cabin crew were prepared for a worse outcome speaks volumes about the importance of layers of safety culture. If any of a thousand little factors had been different, her decision could have saved many lives. I hope she was properly thanked for her action.
@@hockeygrrlmuse 👌👌👌👌👌👌
When I heard that part, my first thought was that the purser probably had a lot of experience dealing with arrogant men who think they know everything.
@@IdliAmin_TheLastKingofSambar I think she knew when the response letter had an Air France logo on the top. Many people I know think Air France has the worst pilots in Europe, even people from France.
Checklist: LAND ASAP! TURN OFF ENGINE!
Captain: Lets keep going and keep the engine on
French, say no more...
@@johngreydanus2033he should have surrendered to the checklist and shut the engine down
Ok, I am having trouble wrapping my head around how "LAND ASAP" in underlined red bold caps on the checklist could be considered discretionary.
Well, you and the investigators as well
Those red letters make my stomach turn.
@@john-paulsilke893 Would it be better if they were a nice mauve color?
16:13 It isn't underlined. Everyone knows that red, bold and capitalized is only "recommended".
😜🤪🤭🥴
Edit: this is sarcasm for all you who couldn't figure that out. 🤦🤦♀️🤦♂️
Is it an actual real fuel leak (where you have to follow procedures}, if you lose less than 20% overall? Perhaps it can be classified into a minor fuel leak, where you only have to follow part of the procedures?
The Captain really liked that left engine.
Mans really wanted to go back to the land of pungent cheese, chain smoking and baguettes lol
I have a feeling if someone had said left testicle or left engine, he would now only have 1 testicle.
@@geoffhaylock6848 😂
😁
@@geoffhaylock6848😂😂😂
I worked 20 years in the corporate world before going in my business.
While i was an engineer, I always had a dominant boss who imposed his ideas as best options and never listened to others, including us. It was very frustrating for everybody, and despite his failures, never did he listen.
When he left, i was the best option the organization had, and 7 years as a leader, i ensured that all different ideas were gathered on how to execute our project before decision making.
To my own surprise, many young, inexperienced engineers would at times come up with something that seniors and experiences never thought of, and i executed 25 projects with my team with zero failures.
Wish the Captain had open mind to listen to his colleagues, but he was arrogant and risked the life of his pax throughout and stayed arrogant until the last minute of taking turns without a shutting engine, continuing the risk furthermore.
Congrats on using FORDEC in the correct way. 💕
yup, as a 30 year experienced heating engineer, I took on my 16 year old son as an Apprentice. He watched me do a thing (the same way I had always done it ) then suggested a MUCH more efficient way to do it. Lesson learned that day!
That´s exactly the point. Stating to the First Officer, who was Pilot Flying, that it would be his decision to shut the engine down and continuing that he wouldn´t allow to shut the engine down is a strange indication of this arrogance. It was pure Luck that this Flight didn´t end in a huge Fireball.
@@panosdotnet "Surely you can't be serious."
"I am serious... and stop calling me Shirley.
Excellent vidéo, thx a lot ( and a great example of the arrogance of some ( AF) captains …)
Vlad, retired Transport Canada Aircraft Certification Engineer: I was sitting on the edge of my seat while watching this video, being afraid, that at any instant during the flight and landing engine will caught fire. I was astonished by totally irrational thinking and action of the crew. This is the case of very bad assessment of the situation by three very experienced pilots. They were very lucky. And yes the purser was the only one who was acting rationally by preparing passengers for the emergency evacuation and giving clear instruction in that regard. Peter, I like your very descriptive and clear story telling with specific attention to the important details.
I was on the edge of my seat too!!!
When I heard Petter say that they didn't know which pilot carried out the walk around, my first thought was, "I guess none of the flight crew survived to be interviewed by the investigators. This one is going to end badly."
Some of the lessons learned today;
- Don't be smarter than the procedures put in place.
- Let the least experienced member in the group give their opinion first.
- Beware of "group think" - `Where the desire for harmony and conformity inside of a group becomes more important than individual differing opinions and therefore leads to flawed decision making`
- Don't let your personal preferences get in the way of objective decision making
Thank you for all these wonderful lessons sir. I learn real valuable stuff on this channel every time I watch (which is everytime you upload🙂). I don't work in the aviation industry but these lessons guide me in my everyday life. I do really love commercial aviation now though. Thanks to Mentour Pilot
And when writing emergency procedures, note the "why" ...
🙂👍
@@NuclearSavety And when the list of emergency procedures has been exhausted (and assuming that the plane is still flying) and the problem has not been resolved or given the best available response: Start again, starting from the most seemingly simple and escalate from there, being mindful of the emergency scripted procedures and the point or points where the scripted procedure is not producing a fix or better understanding of the problem.
But in this case, of course, if they had followed the checklist and shut down the #1 engine, both the cause of the fuel loss and the potential of that big leak leading to a fire would have been mitigated. Especially in light of the fact that an in-flight fire is orders of magnitude, a worse result than shutting down an engine.
These guys and their passengers were amazingly lucky, they didn't cause a fire, by not shutting down the engine. If they had shut down the engine and the problem didn't go away, the leak had to be somewhere else in the port side fuel system. But once a stream of fuel was identified as coming from the port engine, a stream that was responsible for the loss of tons and tons of fuel, the failure to shut down the engine becomes almost inexplicable. It is just sheer luck and happenstance, the pilot's actions did not result in a fire.
An unspoken lesson is to put these into practice straight away so they become second nature in normal times so when its abnormal you fall back on these habits by default not let them be overridden by other habits.
good synopses
I hugely appreciate these videos more and more because they are not click baity focus on catastrophic disasters, but more focusing on incidents where the outcome was successful overcoming of problems where everyone ended up safe and sound, but with Petter’s attention to detail on the problems that arose and how other pilots that watch these videos can learn little lessons from them. And of course this makes me as an average passenger feel more and more safe each flight knowing the education that pilots receive from each of these such incidents and that Petter is helping spread the learnings far and wide! Thank you once again sir!
Thank you too! That's exactly what I was after
He does also cover disasters in the same way as he does near misses. Lessons can be learned from those too.
@@MentourPilot gotta say I really liked how you explained the time that one plane crashed into Mount Erebus. The circumstances around that are... exceptionally strange.
Totally agree. That's why I keep coming back to Petter's channel.
It’s fascinating to me, the psychology of decision-making that would lead people to say “how can I maneuver around the checklist to get the result I want?” without stopping to ask themselves WHY the checklist says what it says. I’d like to think that in such a moment of crisis, I’d say to myself “maybe the people who wrote the checklist know something I don’t know”, but I also know I’m not immune to the cognitive biases that affect all humans.
Thanks for another great video!
The only thing done correctly in this was the early monitoring of the fuel. Once it was noticed a ton of it was missing, the checklists become the rules. There should be no ambiguity about that. It also points out that a good pilot can identify issues long before the automation. But a good pilot also acts upon the information rather than pretending it doesn't exist.
The more experienced you are, sometimes it's worse the cognitive bias becomes
To the point. You know it's the same with driving and the road signs. You travel a long straight road, you see long kilometers of the asphalt before you, and suddenly there is a road sign limiting speed to 50 km/h. Your first and intuitive reaction might be that this is an absurd. Long, straight road ahead just makes you step on the gas, right? And only the other thought may become helpful: WHY in such beautiful scenery someone warns me to travel very slow instead of fuul speed..?
Did you even watch the video? 🤦♂️
Good God you armchair pilots are ridiculous.
Something poetic about the engine being so saturated with fuel that it prevented a devastating fire. The captain's bad decisions came together and cancelled each other out
It reminded me of that scene in the Simpons where Mr Burns has every disease possible.
3 left turns can make you turn right.
In addition to being flammable, Oil is also used as a coolant :)
Good news-no fire. Bad news- you are SO fired.
Stoichiometry played a key role in this *not* becoming a serious air incident.
On about letting the least experienced person to speak out.
As an forklift mechanic for 32 years now I always listen to the input from others because they sometimes have a different perspective on the problems I have to solve and sometimes they come up with something I haven’t thought about. Keep up the good work Peter !!
Also in forklift operations, it's not the new guys doing the top unsafe shit like lifting a forklift with another to get to something too high.
Oh goodness. What a captain! I love these videos by MentourPilot. I am a 70 y/o woman that has been watching his videos for over three years. The first year, I was almost completely lost as he explained the airplane's technical, electrical, and mechanical details involved. I also watched about 6 months worth before I could understand all of his words because of his accent. Now, I am not criticizing - I absolutely LOVE his accent and listening to him (that was the main reason I came back to watch the second video.) I no longer struggle to understand his English. (I admire those that have learned English as an additional language to their birth language. I took a bit of Spanish in school, but as I didn't keep up with it I can now say very little in any language but English.) Slowly I learned enough by listening to his explanations to MINIMALLY understand the workings of the airplane. At the beginning and for the first 5 minutes or so, I was afraid this was going to be a fatal disaster, but gradually picked up on the possibility that it wasn't going to be fatal as I listened more to his explanations. I have to say, though, as the captain's decision-making was detailed, I began shaking my head slowly back and forth. I continued to shake my head throughout the last 5 minutes or so. MentourPilot does such an amazing job of explaining each action, decision, and possible reason for the decision and the decision's possible consequence, This captain, I hope, was taken back into training on decision-making and was instructed to watch MentourPilot's videos to learn how to properly conduct the "group decision-making process" in order for it to actually work, before he was allowed back into the cockpit. Thank you for making these videos - so detailed and I am always glued to the video for the duration and enjoy learning more each time. I also enjoy the many comments, so many pilots contribute and I learn from each one. I tried the other day to watch someone else's video on airline accidents and quickly turned it off - just no one does it like MentourPilot.
I think your videos should be compulsory viewing for all pilots etc.
I love the way you make it all understandable!
I’m so happy you think so! My team and I work hard on trying to make them as accessible as possible 💕
During my career, all the aircraft I flew incorporated "Expanded Checklists" in a back section of the manuals. These included extra information about the reason each step is being taken. In this case it would definitely highlight the fire risks associated with the situation and probably also mention that if a fire in an engine cowl should start burning outside of the normally-assumed region where the fire-suppression systems work, this could be an uncontrollable fire. I wonder if these "Expanded Checklists" still are part of the pilot's operational manuals. Another well-produced Training Video here - thanks Petter.
Yes I've often thought that having the reasoning given for checklists would make alot of sense and have avoided alot of the problems that come up in mentours reviews. It's all very well having a group of experts hide in a room and issue edicts but without an understanding of what the reasoning was it's alot harder to work out if there's something specific that doesn't apply or does apply to the particular situation the crew i sin.
@@tomriley5790 As Raymond Chen (a Microsoft developer) put it in his blog - good advice comes with a rationale, so you can understand when it becomes bad advice. As this checklist case shows, a rationale can also help you understand WHY good advice is good!
i can't remember the jet type, but there was an incident where deploying the reversers basically directed the fire toward the cabin, acting like a blow torch...
@@falcon-ng6sd Exactly.
@@tomriley5790 I don't disagree with your comment, only suggest that during a possible emergency is not the time to learn the rationale behind an instruction or check-list action. I would hope that all pilots receive instruction in all of these procedures during their training. That is the time for the rationale to be explained and understood. Looking at this from a registered nurse's viewpoint - for example: if I am working with a patient that is having difficulty breathing to the point that the patient is turning blue and gasping for breath, that is not the time for me to pull out the hospital's procedure manual and look through 300 pages of procedures to learn why I need to give the patient oxygen, apply monitors, and give assisted breathing if needed. I should have learned the reasons during my education. Also, in every hospital I've worked in, we nurses were each given a 2-3 inch thick procedure manual/notebook to become familiar with before we were out of orientation. A previous commenter said something about following procedure FIRST and then find out why something is happening. As MentourPilot has said multiple times - keep the plane flying first, then problem-solve. In my way of thinking, the Captain should have followed the procedure first, then figured out why it said to shut the engine off and land ASAP. Sounds like he could have gotten those explanations from the other two pilots in the cockpit with him if he had allowed their input.
Ah yes, the "bigger" risk of shutting off an engine, that is something you are trained for and the checklist tells you to do in bold red font vs. the "small" unforeseen risk of flammable fuel leaking out somewhere. The captain is truly the decision maker of the century. Love the videos, keep it up!
Yeah.. but, as always, it’s easy to sit in an office or sofa, judging crew who make mistakes.
I make these videos, not to assign blame but to show where we can learn
@MentourPilot True. I just found it found it funny, but other than that, I don't care about blaming him for it, I'm not a pilot in that situation after all. I just love to see any improvements to procedures that come from these incidents that you always list
It was not unforeseen, it is foreseeable. The problem was the checklist did not make clear the reasons why so they did their own risk assessment without taking into account this serious risk. With risk, it is not just he probability of something occurring but the severity if it does happen. Although in this case the probability of a fire could not be considered small and the severity is very high if it does happen.
@@MentourPilot Hindsight is 20/20 that is for sure, which is why it is so important to figure out afterwards how to avoid mistakes being made again.
@@user-xu5vl5th9n That makes me wonder: which amount of the reasons should a checklist explain? Giving more reasons may help the crew, at some later point, in case the checklist ever runs out and the crew is then forced to improvise. Giving fewer reasons, focussing on just the instructions, makes the text shorter - can that maybe save time when reading the checklist and improve efficency and speed when implementing it? For example, reading "leaking fuel might be at risk of igniting" in an emergency checklist could perhaps cause me to think "Hear, hear! Who would have thought _that_ ... Wow thanks, Captain Obvious!" hence distracting me from the task at hand.
I have definetly run into some manuals that were hard to use because they were excessively long and excessively wordy (i have no experience with airplane manuals though). Is there a tradeoff between conciseness and clarity here? I'm definitely used to that kind of tradeoff as a software engineer working on software documentation.
I've watched so many "no survivors" videos of this channel, that every "landed safely" feels so calming and reliefing.
I really like that everyone is safe in the end, it is a fascinating way of storytelling where he first makes you imagine all the horrors that could be and then gifts you the "happy ending"
Even so, I was puckering harder all the time, hearing the shark music in my head getting louder, watching the swimmer who was ignorant of the danger below getting closer and closer, nearly in tears when they taxied up to the gate, unscathed.
@BrilliantDesignOnline yeah, me too, I even thought that engine would fire up when they were turning.
I've avoided flying on Air France since the disaster of Fl 747 from Rio to Paris, which was unquestioabley a failure of safety culture among Air France pilots. This vodeo certainly confirms that decision.
I can't blame your decision. I think this 'maverick' pilot culture runs deep within Air France (especially on long-haul flights where the pilots are older and more often former air force demi-gods who think they are too smart to slavishly follow procedure).
AF447 ?
@@melainekerfaou8418 Can't recall the exact source but a study was done and former air force pilots, specifically fighter pilots potentially make for poor airline pilots. This is due to high emphasis on mission completion and acceptance / praise for very high risk taking. Obviously this can be unlearned through good crm and training.
It's AF447, but yes you're absolutely right !!!
i used to fly with air france regularly many years ago and found them a good customer focused company. then i worked with someone who had worked with them in simulator training, and his experience with their air crew demonstrated air france had a horrific cultural problem with their air crew that they company was unwilling to address. never flown with them since
The problem with improvising with very tight systems is that once you start to improvise, you go off the beaten path and usually can't get back. Then you will need to improvise more and more, until you realize the problems exceed your capacity to handle them. Improvisation should only be attempted when there are no reasonable alternatives and you just have to do something. Also, if at any point you feel like "just delete the whole ECAM screen" is the right choice, reconsider your whole situation very carefully.
it's like with letters, if you start getting letters from a ton of overdue bills or even collection agencies and the only decision you come to is to rip them up and pretend they didn't exist, something else has gone deeply wrong
Indeed. If you deviate and SOPs and it goes badly then you're in hot water, whereas if you stick to SOPs and it goes wrong then at least it's not your fault.
Indeed, exactly.
The tendency for air France captains to take rest period just before disasters (see also AF447) is astonishing. In my past 19000+ flight hours I've never left the fligt deck if the situation was less than completely normal.
Fully agree with you. A very good practice that doesn't need to be written, or maybe so nowadays
Infatti i piloti italiani sono i migliori (dico davvero), gli equipaggi dell'Alitalia sono tra i più esperti e professionali dei cieli e io mi affido a loro in qualsiasi situazione. Air france è vergognosa da molti punti di vista invece.
When it comes to resting, they adhere strictly to their SOPs
The combination of technology and psychology is always so interesting in these videos. I love how I'm learning about how different aircraft work, which is super interesting but not really relevant to my life, and also how human brains work, which is relevant to everyone. I feel like I'm learning to be a better thinker each time I watch one.
The captain not following the checklist because he didn't fully understand the purpose of it is so frustrating from my sofa but so understandable too. I find a lot of really "wtf" decisions people make in my (very much not a pilot) work are due to not understanding the point of the procedure - it's hard to make a good guess on what you’re supposed to do if you don't know why you're doing it. (Which is obviously why all the checklists and SOPs - we shouldn't be basing our choices on individuals guessing all the time.) The pilots here think they're making good choices, but the captain is leading the whole discussion while missing such a vital piece of the picture, so their decison making is just so flawed. (Also, the camera moving up and down and side to side in the empty cockpit when the pilots were discussing what they were going to do made me smile so much. Your team are the best ❤)
You're so good at this, and it's always a gift to have one more voice of reason and nuance and curiosity out there. Thank you for doing what you do ❤
Awesome! It’s exactly these types of discussions and “aha moments” that I hope to inspire with my videos. I’m so glad you got it. 💕
Petter's emphasis on the human element in these videos is so important. I don't work on anything directly related to aviation, or as immediately life-and-death, but it makes me think a lot about similar situations occurring in my own work. Groupthink, the tendency for the less-experienced to defer to authority, confirmation bias and the tendency to keep going on rails once you've made a decision... these are relevant to anyone.
I am French, working in a totally different industry, but we also follow procedures, heavily document processes and take lessons learned seriously.
It is true that we French tend to bend the rules when we believe it makes more sense.
When we *believe*. Meaning we tend to rely on our intellect more than on processes. It is more satisfying to us. It makes us feel alive. We love "Outsmarting" the rules. Which was driving my German colleagues crazy when I was working with them.
Not sure the pilot will have learned something. At the end of the day, the plane was landed, no fire took off, passengers disambarked safely.
It may be possible that the pilot will think that that's a lot of fuss for a chain of decisions and actions that led to a succesfuk landing, after all. Who knows. Maybe he will have learned a lesson.
I flew many types in the RAF from 1976 to 1989 and appreciate your considered and logical approach on aviation matters. Looking forward to many more of your insights. Cheers from a rather Chilly Otford, Kent, UK.
I work as a Quality Assurance manager in food production, and very often I'm the only one in the room that has the procedures in hand telling everyone why we NEED TO keep something on hold and the risks involved with putting any possibly dangerous items out into the world. I have had to leave 2 jobs in 21 years due to companies putting profits over safety (sadly one of those companies sold food to schools in 22 different states, I hope they have made the proper corrections since I left 🙏)
Somewhere out here there are hundreds of thousands of people who didn't get a nasty stomach bug because you did the right thing, and probably a handful who did not become disabled or die due to something going wrong with food.
... there's a medical channel named 'ChubbyEmu' which details things that generally don't but can happen with food contamination. So you've probably prevented someone from being wheeled into the ER and then later, wheeled out.
"I hope they have made the proper corrections since I left"
Well if they didn't make those changes when someone who actually thought they needed to be made was there...
@NightKev Yes, I couldn't make them, but the FDA has much more sway than any employee, too many complaints or a serious sickness and they'd be shut down and MADE to get things done.
@@gregorymeyer1798 Well, did you contact the FDA or anyone about it?
@@NightKev Yes, more than once, I was told they would "investigate", I've heard there was a huge backlog back then (2016) so I do not know if they ever uncovered anything. They would have also had to catch many of the issues WHILE they were taking place. I offered some emails that discussed the horrible situation, but they told me they can't use them, and they'd be in touch. Never heard back.
One important technical correction for you Peter, at 45:00 when you reference the braking, your technical editor keeps showing the “alternate parking brake “ indicator. That braking system is not used for landing unless the normal braking is INOP. That pressure indicator doesn’t indicate normal brake pressure, only alternate. Your technical editor also showed it another time earlier in the video, when you may have been discussing landing data and distance to the “ shortened “ runway at the alternate . Just an FYI
With the title I was thinking it was a fatal incident. I'm glad it wasn't. 48:38
Headline is shameless CLICK BAIT
@@johnjoseph3667Its RUclips, of course it is, especially now that it allows creators to create two thumbnails/titles and see which one brings the most views 🤷
The thumbnail is clickbait but it's also a recognition that this was a situation that failed to turn into a fatal emergency only by fortunate chance.
@@johnjoseph3667 I disagree that the title is misleading. That plane was *thiiiiiiis* close to killing everybody on board.
"Air France should put compliance with procedures back in the centre of the company's safety culture" [where it belongs] -- ouch. THAT'S a SLAP down. Wow. I'm glad the purser's preparations proved to be needless. This could have ended SO very badly.
You got me with the 'we dont know who did the walk around' - i thought this was going to end really badly
Yes, that was a "curved ball", Mentour! 😇
I think letting the least experienced person speak first also helps build confidence for that person later in their career. They won't feel as inclined to "stay quiet" if they notice a problem.
Absolutely right
Boss, I did binge watch your whole channel two three times over the last month. Thanks for the hard work. I even listen to your channel in my sleep which is funny because I have random aviation facts in my brain that I have no idea where it comes from! Thanks again
You are more than welcome! Thank you for being here, supporting!
As a leading engineer on the software part of a larger product development project I strive to use the lessons from the aviation industry. For instance, the accident on Tenerife really taught me to accept and expect me to be wrong every now and then, to create an environment where I at any time can be challenged and encouraging my collogues to do so. PIOSE/FORDEC is another lesson. This video gave me the added tool of letting the less experienced speak up first. Thank you.
As a FA with 27 years of experience for a legacy carrier, i appreciate how you highlight the importance of CRM.
Oh my god this one made me STRESSED. Usually I empathize with the pilot to some degree but by the end I was internally screaming JAIL even though no one wound up hurt! It very much seems like this flight avoided tragedy thanks to luck, and in spite of the captain's decisions. Of course as someone with no experience in the industry it's easy for me to judge, but the fact that he just kept putting the plane into risky positions for literally no reason is agonizing to watch.
A rare example of FADFO (Whats FAFO with Didnt in it)
Heading back from Heathrow right now. Sent my partner back to Texas, now I’m free to enjoy your content without giving her a panic attack
I also often watch these while at the airport or on the flight!
Awful airport to spend time at. I always try to get there just in time.
I don't know. In-flight I rather watch something else. You never know if you're seated in proximity of an anxious passenger. Those people went a long way to get on a plane and I don't wanna make in any worse for them.
Why do you call her your “partner”?
@@rocksnowandwater With the volume turned up, I hope. 😉😁
Being naturally anxious about flying…but needing to use the service often in my life…. I’ve found that learning all I can about the technology makes me feel more at ease when I fly. Watching and learning from your videos has made me a more relaxed and comfortable customer. THANK YOU for all the information you share. It’s made a HUGE difference!
The difference between fear and beauty is knowledge
I agree, it’s not the engineering or physics of flying that make me anxious, it’s human incompetence. All the safety features in the world can’t overcome an arrogant incompetent pilot or lazy mechanic.
Finally, the aircraft landed safely, and it's great to hear that everyone is alive.
Regarding the captain's decision, it's something related to target fixation. The human mind is incredibly complex and difficult to understand.
I think get-home-itis played a part, ie. not wanting to spend New Year in Chad until it wasn't an option.
@@amazer747 plus the catering was simply awful, (no moules frites)
@@amazer747 Indeed. But it doesn´t explain why the Captain refused against the checklist and all sense to shut down the engine and to divert to Youndé when it became clear that the Aircraft couldn´t reach Paris at this day.
I trained as a Locomotive Engineer in New Zealand for Kiwirail, 20 week's classroom and practical exams. In our handbooks for quick reference trouble shooting any instructions in Bold Red Capital's were to be undertaken straight away. Strange the Captain didn't adhere to this ruling.
How someone is smart enough to become a commercial pilot yet doesn't equate 'fuel leak' with 'fire hazard' in their brain is crazy.
We can say that in retrospect, but many people make simple mistakes like that in all things, professional and personal. Part of the reason constant training and reflection is so important, like with doctors needing to do that every year or so (think 3 is the longest period between checks and updated mandatory training).
It never ceases to amaze me of the depth of knowledge you have I’m a 22000 hour pilot with 11 type rating and I always learn so much from you Great work
Don't be hard on yourself, don't forget that this is heavily researched and scripted.
Thank you so much again Petter and the Mentor team
Thank YOU for being here early and supporting the channel!
@@MentourPilotThis video highlights what I love about the videos you and your team make!
Whilst the incident was extremely serious, and gives insight on safety and how to better pilot and operate aeroplanes for any pilot, commercial or recreational (- highlighting things like the need to follow SOP’s, how best to follow P.I.O.S.E.E./F.O.R.D.E.C., & of course CRM!). There was no overly dramatic situation for the passengers, no tragedy & none of the ‘drama’ or ‘hysteria’ that is often reported by media outlets with regards to the aviation industry!
(No wonder your channel is so often filled with the wonderful comments of nervous aviation passengers saying just how reassured and more at ease (or peaceful 🕊️), they feel about flying after watching your videos!
Thanks so much again,
Thank you for the wonderful, informative, interesting, and entertaining work you all create!
Thanks so much again! 🧡🕊️✈️
I flew for the first time in 5 years the other day, the first time since discovering your content. In most ways, I now enjoy flying even more. But as we boarded the plane from the outside and I was seated near the aft and therefore had to walk past the beautiful aircraft, all of a sudden your voice came into my head: “The aircraft was a beautiful Boeing 737-800 in pristine condition” and for just a split second, I was terrified! Luckily it passed as fast as it came to me, and I had a lovely flight!
I would research all the DEI hiring for air traffic controllers and pilots….. 😮
@@thomasmyers9128DEI doesn't mean not hiring the best and suitable candidate, it means spreading the net a little wider to places one might not have looked. It also means to stop assuming that someone non-traditional was someone not qualified, as that usually leads to them being treated poorly, and deciding this career isn't for them. My only complaint about DEI programs is that, using a US example, they focus too narrowly, and the brilliant white kid from rural West Virginia, with two poor crackhead parents, doesn't get the same DEI support as a brilliant person with the handicap that English wasn't their first language. The support they need will be different, but they both need extra support to succeed. But, by the same criteria, the black kid whose parents were both medical doctors won't need the same support as someone whose parents didn't go to college. And sometimes, one needs a rule-follower more than you need someone who comes up with creative improvisions. Railroads prefer hiring veterans, as they are used to following rules, even if they seem stupid, so sometimes, that's what you need.
I will admit that some organizations have done DEI poorly, as a box checking exercise. This is what gives DEI a bad name.
@ …. In a dream… in a perfect world…. But what you described isn’t what is happening….
Harris is the perfect example of a DEI hire/pick……. Go watch the video of Biden claiming that’s what he was going to do
….. then he did it….
@@thomasmyers9128you scared of women and non white people lmao?
Not sure why anyone wouldn't stay tuned through the entire video at this point, absolutely incredible video as always 😊
I am not a pilot, but rather a physician. I use the lessons taught in these videos in my profession with regards to checklists, teamwork and decision making. There are parallels here for any discipline. Keep the videos coming...
I never thought about how pilots need the fuel to move depending on the part of flight, when ever u watch ur vids i learn something new
That’s what I’m trying to do! You should always leave my videos with a feeling of having learned Something.. 💕
@@MentourPilot Absolutely true - learn something new every day. I've bumped this right to the top of my "Watch Later" list (too busy at moment) - fuel balance and cg management very close to my heart.
@@MentourPilot My assessment having watched nearly halfway
*WHEN A LEAK IS CONFIRMED*
Nothing more needs to be said.
However I do also want to query how a pilot can do a walk-around without signing off on this check, for future traceability.
And then at 32:20 the ECAM ALSO instructed the #1 ENG be shut down - ignored and msg deleted.
And you think I will fly Air France again (AF447 still being fresh in my mind), the answer is NOT AF.
4-5 tons of fuel per hour normal burn
1.4 tons fuel missing after climb out - how on earth could that be in the fuel lines???
And 20 minutes later it was 2.1 tons missing.
That is a fully confirmed fuel leak, so that's criminal negligence ignoring two explicit engine shut down commands.
"The Captain felt it was his perogative to decide on that, not the checklist's." Frenchman in a sentence
😅😅
HEH❤
Tu mens.
@@AgravepasmonK En tant que belge, qui adore de taquiner ses voisins au sud; premierement, il blague et deuxièmement, vous devriez ouvrir votre esprit pour accepter certaines blagues sans être vexé. Troisièmemement, il n'a pas totalement tors si je prends mes expériences personnelles avec beaucoup de français, je ne dis pas que chaque français est comme ceci, par contre, il y en a un tas qui se comporte de cette manière assez fréquemment.
@@AgravepasmonK this answer just confirms our (probably all nations ever having worked with frenchmen) bias towards you folk (yes i generalise here, on purpose, though i realise some will not be like the bias) being stubborn, arrogant know-it-alls, that don't take input from anyone, other maybe then another frenchman.
Maybe go home and think about how you and your mates behave towards foreigners and if that behaviour would confirm or undermine the bias? And if you are willing and able to make sure you undermine the bias as much as you can, so the bias could disappear.
"Shall we shut down the engine once we reach the stand?" "No... I'd like to keep it running for longer..."
Almost Saudia 163 levels of idiocy.
The quality and effort you put into your videos is outstanding brother, it really helps to understand the stories in a really interactive way. Great job man.
You know it’s boutta get crazy when he stops talking, stares directly at the camera, and says, *”Remember that.”*
If you're so worried about losing an engine on final and suddenly having to do a one-engine go around, you could just shut the engine down ahead of time and land on one engine, and then you know exactly where you stand...
never clicked this fast on a video lol
time to enjoy another 49 minutes of epicness.
I hope you will really like it! It’s one of my favourite videos so far
@MentourPilot just watched the entire thing, great video as always, keep up the good work :D
Shutting Down the engine by the fuel handle would not have prevented the fuel leak, as the leak was at the engine/pylon fuel connector. Shutting down the engine by the fuel handle closes a fuel vale in the fuel control unit, mounted on the engine itself. So as the fuel pumps were still running, the fuel would still be purring out at the pylon connector. To stop the fuel leak they would have to depress the fire switch for the faulty engine. Activating the fire switch closes a fuel valve in wing leading edge, completely isolating the engine from fuel.
My assumption is confirmed by the fact that they lost an additional 400 kg of fuel during taxi to the gate after the engine was shut down.
Great work Petter, keep producing these videos 👍
You might be right, but in any case, they would have stopped the fire-risk.
The fuel leak during the taxi-in could have happened up until the point they turned it off as well.
Seriously taxing with a fuel leak to the stand!!!!! How this plane didn’t burst into flames.
@@budwhite9591 Jet fuel is not particularly flammable, as odd as that may sound. It really needs to be atomized and at a high temp to burn. You can literally put out a cigarette in a cup of jet fuel and have next to no risk of setting it alight.
@@MentourPilot look at a schematic for the fuel system, and you will see that the fuel leak occurred before the fuel control unit, so closing the valve in the fuel cont. unit does not prevent this leak🫣
thx, was wondering the same thing since you need pressure in the system. turning of a valve means the system is still pressurized so depending on the leak, shutting of an engine won't always work. Afaik it's similar in other aircraft fueling systems, only pressing the fire switch will completly isolate the engine.
The animations & graphics *add so much* to the storytelling. Just fantastic !
Have avoided Air France for many years and will continue to do so. Crash of Air France 447 alone is a horrifying indictment on their pilot training which is enough to scare me off that airline for life.
French arrogance
same, never again.
Same here. Wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.
Interestingly enough the Airbus manuals at the time stated something to the effect that due to the nature of their fly by wire system with all its protections it was unnecessary to do upset recovery training....
Don't know how the lawyers missed that one....
Well we all know that 🐸's can't fly, at least not very safely.
This reminds me of hydraulic brake oil leaks in trucks (mostly heavily loaded). Most hydraulic oil is flammable and if it comes in contact with the hot brake discs/drums would result in brrake failure or fire inside the rims. Several accidents have happened like this in my hometown since its hilly with steep gradients. I cannot imagine how the captain disregarded a fuel leak in a running aircraft engine!!
I remember driving along a country road on a blue sky summer's day... and almost as suddenly as one blinks, I could see not much more than white through the windshield. After a minute or two of nervous driving at a sloths pace, it cleared and the cause revealed, stopped on an emergency siding; a couch bus doing an impressive impersonation of a military grade smoke generator, spewing dense smoke from the right back wheel house, with an eerie red glow seen through the smoke.
Our thought over why, was that a brake pad had shifted onto the disc, heating it, and that brake fluid somehow had leaked, creating the dense smoke as it vaporized from the heat.
😮😮 You have no idea how much I wish I could get my boss to recognize the 'group think' that goes on in our team. A team of people who are more interested in getting along instead of making sound decisions is exhausting.
Got goose bumps a few times! …first time when you told us that the Purser prepped the cabin for a possible evacuation.
This could have ended so incredibly different!
Your comments in the video were awesome. Thank you.
With great love from Nigeria. Your analysis is too notch and I've really learned a lot... Safety first, following established procedures and a need to always have a second thought about situations.
A great mentor indeed.
I was waiting for " and that's when the fuel ignited," but I'm glad it never came. Great video, as always.
The idea of allowing someone with least experience come forward first with ideas, is a really good idea .... in all walks of life too.
One of my old jobs we would have the guys that had most recently come on board and finished field training conduct the next field training for the next guys who come on board. With supervision from a senior of course. The reasoning we had was that the new guys would have the training the most fresh in their minds of all of us and would also have had the least amount of time to create their own workarounds and shortcuts or develop bad habits.
Actually, this idea is OLD. In Benedict's RULE FOR MONASTERIES, he suggests that the Abbot also for council from the youngest members of the community in community meetings because they may just have the best answer
Yes, your analysis of human behaviour and social group attiude on decision making in harsh condition is really interesting. Congrats.
Best graphics and in depth explanations on aviation on RUclips. Thank you and your team. 🎉
I swear he’s lining these videos up with my A&P school schedule. We just finished our airframe fuel class
AnothIster excellent video and thank you! I am not a pilot, but very much an aviation enthusiast. What I have found is that the lessons learned here and the safety mindset you talk about, plus many other items are applicable to many other professions and also in our personal lives.
I understand the necessity of in roll ads, but I appreciate the ways you go about inserting them into your videos. It feels less disruptive and for that, we thank you!
Thank you Petter (and your world class team) for yet another intriguing and engrossing episode! You're the best!
Thank YOU for being here early. It really helps as it sends quality signals to RUclips about the video.
I hope you liked it!
I just assume we aren't going to make it. I've been pleasantly surprised each time.
I love these type of videos. Maximum learning from minimum death
Brilliant insight, thank you! Having spent many years in the pharma industry emphasising the value of following SOPs for patient safety, it is wonderful to have such a dramatic and effective example of safety improvement for passengers.
The amount of detail and view angles make your videos both educating and fun to watch! Excellent work everyone!
Thank you for adding the date in the description! ♥
Yes! I appreciate being able to check if I missed it or forgot it in the beginning of the video. Depending on the events of the incident, I often want to know when it happened.
@@amykathleen2 I had so many moments, when later in the video it goes "in year xx the FFA changed something" and im like: "damn, what date was the videos accident again?" 😅 One time I wanted to check on Wikipedia and spoiled the outcome of the video 🥲
That was another edge-of-the-seat tale Petter. So many 'What If's' involved. Fantastic story-telling as ever and whoever does the graphics was on the ball. Thank you again for an informative episode of the sort of emergencies you all make decisions on, so far from the ground. Cheers!
Guys, I thought it might be useful for non-professionals like myself to have a handy guide for translating some of Petter's technical terms. So I created this!
"They were expecting a relaxed flight" - translates to "Hold on to yer butts, people! Shit's gettin' real!"
"The Captain was known as having an autocratic leadership style" - translates to "Hey, do you remember the Sergeant from Full Metal Jacket...?"
"It had recently undergone significant maintenance" - translates to "...And this is how the tail ended up falling off."
"Remember that for later" - translates to "Yep, there's time to get a cup of tea, it's gonna be at least five minutes before the plane falls out of the sky."
"...The single worst emergency that can happen to an aircraft" - translates to "Aw shucks, Jim, did we forget to attach the wings again?"
"It's not a decision I would've made" - translates to "This f--kwit isn't qualified to drive a freakin' tricycle."
Hope this helps! Let me know if I forget anything important.
That was helpful, thanks 😄😄😄
"The Captain was extremely experienced" - translates to "unable to cope with deviation and has the decision-making skills of a startled kitten"
"Only recently transitioned to this type" - translates to "will undoubtedly act like the controls in this jet are backward to every other jet"
"A check Captain on the jumpseat" - literally every time this guy is mentioned in any air accident video, they save everyone by being the only person on board who knows how the plane works.
"Unfortunately we don't know exactly what was discussed." - "The cockpit voice recorder is still in the volcano."
Good points!😃👍 - "It was a beautiful Airbus/ Boeing/ Whatsoever" = "And isn´t it any longer."
😂😂😂
From Montreal Canada! Peter, your views are beautiful and amazing to watch. A real treat. Thank you!
Every week or two, I patiently wait for these Case Study Videos. Thank for educating everyone here about the incidents and accidents. It helps a lot in training as well as in decision making.
I had to chuckle a little bit (because I'm warped).
"An uncontrollable fire is probably the single worst emergency that can happen to an aircraft."
Me: "And the second worst thing is any other type of fire."
" ... 1 hour and 14 minutes after the crew had started the Fuel Leak procedure..."
Me: "More like *noted* the fuel leak existed."
rather probably smth wrong with the horizontal and/or vertical stabilizer/s, maybe the actual worst emergency on a category of its own
😂😂
I've always been fascinated with aircraft, and I still am but haven't flown since 2002. I had a flight scheduled to go to UK Sept 11, 2001. We were delayed, obviously.. left 3 days later.. that was the safest flight I've ever had. I had 2 bad experiences after that and decided that I'm done flying, been cruising since then. I find these documentaries very interesting! Thank you!
Great to hear from you and I’m glad you find these videos interesting, even if you’re not flying. 💕
@@MentourPilot ❤
Love love your content! It’s worth gold for aviation geeks. Thank you so much for doing what you do.
Thank YOU for being here early and supporting the videos! I will
Continue for as long as you guys are by my side
Excellent video...and with an ideal outcome.
Your presentation, Petter, is unmatched. Your narration in combination with excellent graphics which make the complex comprehensible results in informative and engaging content.
Man, I love this channel. I always wanted to be an NTSB investigator but my path led elsewhere. The American DC-10 crash at KORD in '79 when I was 10 was the first disaster I remember and it really affected me and made me want to investigate crashes. I was also at KDTW on the same day as the NWA MD-82 crash 8-16-1987. Missed it by one hour after dropping a friend off for a different flight. I drove on the same road it crashed on 30 minutes before.
Frankly baffling decision-making by the pilots in this one.
It's both sad and hilarious that probably the only thing that saved this plane from a fiery explosion was that the engine became too soaked with leaking fuel.
Indeed.
The captain would be bragging his decision was correct
31:20 it's so interesting how healthcare and aviation seem to use the same principles. as a pharmacist we're told to consider this when we talk to a patient or a technician because we want them to actually tell us what they think/feel, not just agree with us out of deference to authority
Well in both industries a small mistake can lead to death, so excess caution has to be taken at all times.
The medical field took a lot of their like practices from aviation.
1:10 - Coffin shaped table. In the business, we call this foreshadowing.
Yeah, I didn’t even notice that
I didn't think that table was very fitting on this video
I noticed that... threw me right off. I thought this was going to end badly.
Glad I'm not the only one who sees the dark humor.
Haha I came on here to make the same comment and your comment was the first one I saw 😂
Your animations are great! The fuel line animation shown here was very revealing!
I have serious concerns about that captain’s decision making skills. He was essentially operating under “ we’re not on fire currently, so the engine must be safe to use”.
That was an intense story Petter. Great production and story telling.
Glad everyone was ok in the end. It's still a bit disturbing to me that the Captain was fine with allowing the cabin crew to give ideas in certain situations as well as being aware of what's generally happening to the aircraft and still almost doom the aircraft. Was he ever interviewed? If so I would love to hear his reasoning for not shutting down the engine at all, not even when safely on the ground.
And a final kudos to the head flight attendant. Had the aircraft caught fire shortly after landing her decision could have saved many lives.
Indeed.
Air France is by far the most popular airline for Mentour pilot to create a video.
I wonder why 😂
An air controller once told me to avoid Air France. They have too many communication problems because the pilots‘ English is too bad…😂😂😂
@@teachersusan3730 Baguette 🥖 Air too baked 😂
Love your videos! Explains in details of famous air crashes, along with smaller ones that I don't know! Thanks, and keep up the good work!
I’ve always been impressed by your work, but now I think you’re an exceptionally great pilot!
"Remember that." Great story telling.
He does that in many videos. Welcome aboard!
I know how you emphasize that such cases are not about people but increasing safety and procedures in aviation, but if disregarding a first-action LAND ASAP on a non-normal checklist did not somehow led to the pilot being sacked, I honestly don't know what would do.
thanks for this on a sunday
it's a Sunday here too
Any time! 💕💕
I am just so excited that you have loaded a new video. I feel like i have learned so much because of your videos. I hope that your peers really benefit from a more educated audience.
Was worried that I'd hear about an engine nearly the entire video, especially when the engine was increased to turn and those brake temps. So glad to see that nobody was even injured, just egos bruised with that blistering note at the end of the report.
It’s wild to just blow past a red Land ASAP instruction, especially since if you had that show up on the ECAM it would be absolutely unquestionable that a diversion was required immediately.
Yep.. but the mind is a powerful thing
Thanks for one of your best videos! As a retired B-757/767 captain, i was extremely interested in this video. While I never experienced a similar incident, for which I am thankful, and grateful for the consistently high quality of maintenance on my airline (TWA), Peter's analysis was fascinating and to the point. I am particularly drawn to the notion of seeking input first from the least experienced crew member. I feel that this is an important and potentially valuable protocol. I had 32 years of post-Navy airline flying experience, of which 19 years were in the flight engineer position on B-727, CV-880, B-707, and L-1011 aircraft types. The one incident I had with the most serious safety implications was as an MD-80 captain with an overheated MD-80 elevator jackscrew which caused the alternate trim motor (used by the autopilot) circuit breaker to pop. After trouble shooting and re-setting the C/B. the autopilot elevator trim operated normally. When Alaska Airlines 261 crashed several months later from a frozen MD-80 elevator jackscrew, I realized that the incident that I had experienced was likely much more serious than I had thought at the time. The only checklist procedure involved was a general restriction to one C/B reset, which I observed. We were enroute to DCA (Washington D.C. Reagan Airport) and nothing was found by DCA Maintenance to explain the popped C/B. If I had known what I know now, I would have suspected excessive friction in the elevator jackscrew and diverted to land at the nearest suitable airport. The connection to this Air France story is that as pilots we cannot know what is causing a seemingly non-emergency problem while in flight, and we must consider the most serious possibilities in our decision-making.
I am a lifelong tinkerer and career mechanic, mostly busses, but including maintenance of small Beechcraft twins in the Army. When I read about the Alaska crash and how that crash occurred, I felt a mixture of shock, anger and disgust.
A mechanic noted that there was a quantity of metal shavings being ground off of the horizontal stabilizer jack screw shaft or the actuator the jscrew operated, likely both. At some point, given the loads that are on a horizontal stabilizer jack screw shaft, a total failure was inevitable.
To jetdrivertwo's point about not understanding full implications: We are forced to rely on the hope, that the people on whom we rely, have done their jobs. And in the case of a single-point, total failure of the aircraft, end item, that it matters to the repair shop and the company it serves, that people's lives are directly connected to those jobs being done correctly.
Thank you for making Our Sunday 🙏....Waited all week for this series😅💗
Hope you enjoyed it! 💕💕
What a great video! An event I wouldn't have known about, but with so many interesting details, and obviously a great example of why pilots using both, crm and their available information and checklists is so important.