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"We all have been tuning our guitars wrong" | Can you hear the difference?
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- Опубликовано: 13 фев 2017
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In this video I am comparing a regular tuned guitar to a guitar tuned to a method James Taylor taught us via this video: • Bonus Guitar Lesson: T...
According to Taylor this method: "Seems to adres some of the conflicts that are part of the instrument"
Check it out or try it yourself!
It must be awesome to have a brother that you can jam along with. So much you can learn from one another.
King David he doesn't have a brother
Ricardo Martinez It was a Joke! Duh!
He might have a brother.
Somebody once told me there was no air in space but then I discovered there was a Air and Space Museum.
TheMighty Chabunga an*
Not just a brother but an identical twin brother!
Welp, I suck. No difference.
I'm on your boat. I have absolutely no idea what the difference is. It probably makes even less of a difference if you're running the guitar through some distortion and some reverb.
Christian Derocco he didnt play any open chords near the nut
It could be your headset/speakers. I have high end audio-technica headphones, and the difference is pronounced. The taylor sounds more dynamic than the regular which sounds very flat.
H Dug I'll say we go with that!...aaaaaaaand I'm awesome again! Thanks, Dug
I have trained ears and good speakers. I didn't hear any difference either.
The first time I scrolled down so I didn't see the video and wrote which one I thought was standard and which was taylor. I didn't hear any difference.
The second time I watched the video while listening and I felt a small difference but couldn't point out what it was, so I'm pretty sure it is just suggestion. We all watch this video kind of knowing there's something different about that tuning but as we can't feel such difference, we fabricate it unconciously (suggestion).
It's pretty similar to the story The Emperor's New Clothes.
All this shows is that if my tuning is within 10cents i’m ok 😂
within negative 10 cents. Being slightly flat is apparently more pleasing to the ear than being a little sharp.
utub333 that’s funny because I naturally avoid tuning sharp, but if I’m a little flat (after not tuned in a while) I’m not too bothered by it. I rather be tuned flat than sharp.
@@utub333 yeah i think its because any time you fret a string it goes slightly sharp because the tension on the strings increases so tuning slightly flat compensates for that
@@musicplaylists59 And if you hit a string hard, it sounds sharp at first before settling into concert pitch. More pronounced in the bass, so I have been flattening my bass strings for a long time by about 5 cents. Detuning the E6 by a whole 12 cents sounds drastic at first, but the overall impression is easier on the ear.
@@user-hd4wf5gq8r very true with me also. I don't claim to have this amazing ear blah blah blah but when i read this i realized that's so true if im sharp at all it sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me
I really enjoyed the fluid transition between the 2 guitars in this video. Much nicer than the stops and fade outs on some of your other videos. Really helped me hear the slight differences.
You are correct that the guitar, all fretted instruments actually, are imperfect. It is in fact impossible for a fretted instrument to be perfectly in tune everywhere on the neck at the same time. If you want to see how the frets need to be installed in order to be in perfect tune everywhere, search "microtonal guitar". It's nuts. There is a better way. I learned this long ago from my instructor at the Peabody Conservatory in Baltimore. Your guitar is in tune at the fret you tune it at. If you tune the open strings, they are in tune but the farther up the neck you go the farther out it is. Using a tuner, tune it in the middle of what you will be playing. If you are playing the most common chords pretty much all at the 5th fret down, tune your strings at the 3rd fret. If you're going to be all over the neck, tune at the 6th through 10th fret depending on where (higher or lower) the majority of your playing will be. Instead of being in tune at one end of the neck and out of tune at the other, you will be in tune in the middle and only a little out higher and lower. This is especially helpful when recording on a multi-track unit. Tune the guitar in the middle of the chords you will be playing for the rhythm track and retune it up higher in the middle of your leads to record that track. Also be aware that when you pick a string it is at one note and it goes slightly flat as it sustains. You'll notice this on your tuner. If you are going to be playing short note runs, tune at the moment you pick the string. If you are going to be playing sustaining chords, tune it a little later, after it sustains for a second or two. Beginners may not notice what a difference this method makes, but those with a good ear will be astonished.
What you're talking about is called intonation and it's not the same thing that a microtonal guitar corrects. When you have a regular guitar with straight frets and perfect intonation, the 12th fret is exactly 1 octave higher than the open notes. He explains the reason for microtonal guitars' existence at the end of the video.
OMCX1-E this is the correct assessment
Check out "Mattias Eklundh true temperament" out.
OMCX1-E Kind of an eye-opener, thank you sir.
That's why microtones are so lovely.
I've been an Acoustician/Recording Engineer since '85, so I have a pretty good ear. When playing with the capo on it was a no brainer. The Taylor tuning had a warmer, fuller sound that was more pleasing to the ear. The standard tuning was crisp but a little too crisp. An engineer would have put a filter on it, not on the taylor. Without the capo was a lot harder to tell. At times I almost thought you didn't change the tuning at all. There is a difference though.. It can really be heard at certain frequencies and like you said "when the strings are hit harder....." Great Vid! I've been playing with this idea for years, this confirms to me I'm not crazy
I agree and im just a regular person who thinks he has a good ear
That's interesting. When he played the Harrison song, I thought the standard tuning sounded better, probably because the notes in that one are so punchy and distinct. But on the Lizz Wright song, the standard tuning came off as, like you say, too crisp. I think I have learned from this video that standard tuning is not always the best choice for a particular composition. I, myself, like to use a tuning scheme I call "my guitar was leaning against the wall for three days in an apartment that undergoes wild temperature fluctuations". It's got... character.
Agreed. The overtones aren’t nearly as pronounced with a mechanical tuning.
hey, i use that tuning too! only my G string doesn't like it.....
Riiiight
Your playing is excellent as always but I love the editing in this vid... the dual playing edit is flawless... well done brother I'm seriously impressed... so much so that i just subscribed :D
It's so nice that you got your brother to come help you making this vid.. and dressing the same is adorable!!
My issue was that he did not use a lot of open chords near the nut (E, C, G, D, etc)
exactly. this whole thing is meaningless if you put a capo on.
The technique of putting a capo on the guitar correctly is harder then it seems! If you do it right, it won't press the strings down harder then your finger would. And that is besides the fact that mr. Taylor talks about the 'capo-issue' in his video. In a live situation, I rarely have time to check my tuning when I put the capo on or off, so it should be right from the get go. As for the open chords: check it out yourself!
Paul you are so right.Too many times I see guitar players just clamp a capo on a guitar and never check the tuning(which of course is askew).Proper placement and down force are crucial.
I recommend they take up the kazoo.
than-----NOT! then.
Why is this misuse so common ?
Just as bad as noone when it should be no one or no-one.
Now then wait for it someone is going to say; "my bad", you can't have a bad, the word is an adjective which is a descriptive word, not a noun!!!!!
No actually just the opposite. If you tune your bass strings slightly lower then put on the capo, then the pressure will slightly bend the strings making them slightly sharp. So this would actually be good for people that play with a capo.
Get us playing like that and we'll happily use either tuning :)
To achieve this tuning easily just drop your guitar on the floor
Glad I'm not in your band
You mean drop tuning? ;^)
Ha!
Show us how it's done then... ;-)
i'd rather lean than 'drop' ,according to ur word its kinda rough for common folks 😁
Does this explain how some days when I pick up a guitar that should be out of tune slightly, it sounds amazing sometimes
Yeah. It's about it...
Totally agree. For me its the same
Hmmm yeah
Because you might have a good night or not
Tempeture makes of difference
Honestly, if I went into the A/B without knowing what the difference was, I'd have just said the Taylor tuning had a new set of strings and standard an old and dead af pair.....
isthisbetterYT? Wich is a huge difference lol😂
*which
At no point did I say it was a small difference, it's noticeable but not unique
isthisbetterYT? The word 'just' suggests that you are talking about a small difference.
Ruben Pechaczek The word 'just' suggests he would have said just one thing: new vs old strings
The taylor tuning just has that little extra soul to it, I can't really hear the difference but yet there is.. Weird..
SoowDeJu Placebo effect
Jake Elliott also highly likely :)
best way is probably to do a blind test. :D
SoowDeJu But it some times just sounds like out of tune in some notes.
Funny, the Taylor tuning sounds out of tune to me on the high strings. I tune the big E string and then tune all the other strings from it, rather than tuning each string individually with a tuner...usually sounds much better as the strings are in tune with each other, rather than in their actual key.
I'm getting to all of this a couple of years late! I just saw the James Taylor video yesterday, and found it fascinating. I knew that (acoustic) guitar is a tempered instrument, so what he was saying made sense to me, and he does have great ears. I can hear the difference mainly in the low strings. I already was tuning my low E string every so slightly flat to compensate, especially on my 12 string. . It's weird and interesting that the brain can adapt so easily. I think James was on to something for sure. Your demo was fantastic, and like I said, I could hear it in the low strings the most. What wasn't clear in James' video was whether the compensation was only for when using a capo. The way he stated it was a little unclear, and he didn't demonstrate like you did! Your demo shows that it works without a capo as well, which is even more fascinating! Thanks so much!
Thanks for the cool informative video. For years, I’ve compensated the g and b strings, first tuning them as closely to standard pitch using a tuner, and then “sweetened” them to my ear by playing a few chord voicings at first, second and third positions... for years I thought my first guitars were just badly and hopelessly out of intonation...but after twenty years and lots of guitars, the g string when tuned to “correct” standard pitch always sounds a little goofy and unpleasantly sharp. Now I know I’m not nuts. A few cents flat from g3 196 hz, really sweetens the harmonic weight and seems to eliminate unpleasant dissonant overtones, instead lending pleasant subtle beating as the offset harmonic phasing seemingly magically makes sonic silk out of what mathematically/physically should produce the opposite result. Electric Guitars, through simple single ended valve amplifiers, being the unavoidably imperfect (even-when-over engineered to ridiculous precision) are such wild, expressive, and elegant air-bending, telekinetic wizard wands for telling stories by high jacking emotions through a persons eardrums. How lucky we are to get to hear and play...
I know what you mean, I thought the other shoes were better too.
You are really kewl, and an awesome musician/guitarist. I agree that switching back and forth one sounds out of tune after getting accustomed to the nuance. As with any guitar, what sounds the most pleasing is quite subjective to the listener. Standard tuning to my ear, sounds slightly more ringing with clarity, while the Taylor method seems to have a bit more resonance. The pursuit of tone will forever be transient. What is right for one mood is less appealing in another.
Thank you, so much for your ability to play, hear, and share your experience. Your gift is also a gift to the world.
Beautifully presented and played, thanks Paul! What a beautiful guitar.
D-45, Everybodys dream.
This was a really clever bit of editing, great job Paul
Very interesting! It does sound better in my opinion (the Taylor Tuning)
The harmonics probably hit your ear differently. I personally had trouble with the video because he kind of changed his playing dynamic between the two examples but I heard the sharpness of the high E and B strings in standard. That was about it.
+suburbanindie That's it. Sharpness in the highs. Standard was very very slightly getting out of tune the higher the notes were played. Instinctively, I do this with my guitar. I tend to leave the higher strings a little flatter as the note will skyrocket up the scale the higher the fret I play it. Not that my guitar is very good and this can exaggerate this effect but, definitely yes.
If Obi Wan tells you to tune your guitar lower, you do it, he has the higher ground.
Gerry Blue nice meme
but what about when darth maul had the higher ground?
only a sith deals in absolutes...
perhaps obi wan was a sith?
in the films we only ever see sith being defeated by other sith
I wonder if he can play the guitar without hands
James That depends largely on how you define defeat. Darth Vader was defeated by a Jedi who didn't complete his training.
Best advice :-) "Just do whatever you like, but its fun to think about it". Really enjoy your work man. Been playing for 30+ years and still love learning new things :-)
3) 3:03 Speak Your Heart - Lizz Wright
Thank you Paul
Thank you!! I scrolled through like a hundred comments trying to find the name of the song
Thank you Obi Wan Kenobi for this lesson.
He's our only hope!
or try this
ruclips.net/video/kyQaSFgnVI8/видео.html
he does look like that dude
There we go. Every Paul David’s video I make sure there is a obi wan comment
“Taylor” tuning sounded more warm for me
well it's a lower sound, so it's warmer by definition.. if it's better or not, I can't really say
Standard sounds better
Wondering if the warmer sound isn't just due to the difference in acoustics since he's in a different position in the room
standard all the way
Well done! I’ve recently discovered your channel and really like your videos🤗 it’s interesting to find out that I haven’t been crazy all this time ! I’m 65 yrs old and I’ve been “temper tuning” my guitars for 40 years. Haven’t spoken much of it, mostly kept it to myself...it doesn’t usually interfere with a good jamm session and most people don’t want to rethink their tuning system. Thank you for highlighting this truth about the Guitar!! Your new fan, Steve in North Dakota 🎸
That seriously sounds so much nicer! Wow. Thank you! I'm going to try this.
we (recording studio) always tune guitars and basses first by tuner, then fix it by ear, and every guitar is different. at the and we check the tunings with the other instruments in the track, which are mainly keyboards, piano and strings. it can be that we have to finetune against them.
and btw, we do not use new strings on guitars as far as possible, as they loose the first brilliance within the first hour of playing.
TheHirade try the Ernie Ball Cobalts. They keep their brilliance for a lot longer and if always played with clean hands and not left in too much humidity they'll keep a good degree of new string sharpness for very long. I put mine on last year and they still sound like new regular strings. They also have a noticeable mid-bump which I quite like.
some guitars like older strings! not too old obviously, a week or two, just like bowed string players do (where its convention to let them 'play in' for at least a MONTH!!)
TheHirade That's interesting! No sarcasm, I've played for over 2 decades & always thought some instruments sound better than others in certain tunings.
The real question here isn't if you gonna notice the difference, but if the *audience* will notice. Many of us (me included) didn't notice anything, but we still try to prove we heard a difference. In a live show or studio record, no one will try to analyze if you're using the standard tuning or Taylor's tuning. Just saying.
I agree. it is even hard to notice the difference when hearing the guitar by itself. imagine when all the drums, piano and other instruments are combined. the noticeable efect is almost zero.
One can argue, that on a Deep subconcious level, we may get more pleasure from perfect intervals. One can, I wouldn`t. There`s many more important things, you can stuff your head with)
I agree.. imperfections here and there are the reason painting is more appealing than a photograph.
to me theres just something not " right " about the Taylor tuning. Like listening to a singer and you're wincing because you don't feel confident they're going to make the note.
Ear needs more training
Standard tuning is a micro bit more crisp and clearer just by thread
:) practice and enjoy, keep it up!
Hey, Paul.
Yup, I've been tuning my Larrivée and Takamine this way since I first saw James' tip a couple years back. I think it works very well. As always, your videos and teaching methods are first rate. Well done 😉
Cool video! As primarily a bluegrass/folk guitar player, I've used something similar for some time. The D and G strings are tuned spot on (since they often are played in open positions). The low E and A are each tuned a little flat and the B and high E are fretted to sound a G note and then matched to the 12th fret harmonic of the G string which causes them to be just a little flat when played open. Really makes a difference when you put the capo on!
You play so freaking beautifully! I hope I'll be as good one day..
Great video! Also we have the same IKEA TV-table
Hi ola
TV cabinet? Wow, who cares.
Ola low key getting in touch with his indie side here 😂
Ola the sweed strikes again
IKEA tends to make more than one of those yeah
Want to comment that this is some seriously amazing recording- you captured absolutely beautiful, studio-quality acoustic tone.
I've been tuning similar to this for a few years- I keep my E, A, and D slightly flat to compensate for the extra vibration of the thicker strings. I also use a Hosco Sound Offset Spacer- it's a little thing you slide under the strings up against the nut, and it acts like a compensated zero fret- it really works to keep everything in tune up and down the neck. Everything sounds so much sweeter and all notes are extremely close to being accurately in tune.
Thank you for sharing. I've never heard of this before but the Taylor tuning feels more dynamic whereas the standard tuning seems "flat"....like flat soda.
I also like the visual work you did to keep the two versions of yourself playing side-by side. Creative and well-done!
I remember talking about similar things back when I played in my high school orchestra. Depending on the surrounding notes played, the pitch should be slightly altered to achieve the optimal sound...due to overtones and all that.
I definitely prefer Taylor's tuning. Sound more natural to me.
I am fascinated my this video but halfway through I realize I'm watching this on a cheap phone with a cheap speaker and I wonder if my whole life is a lie
Welcome to the matrix....
This gentleman understands presentation. Very impressed with your topics and I am enlighted to explanation by clean and well-timed deliverance housed in a quality production. Thank you, sir, for your contributions to music and understanding the soul of it.
I like your style and your constant discovery. Great video work 👍
0:08 I first heard it as "Bitch, our tuning varies a lot!" LOL
Nanof Urbiznis I wont be able to unhear it now lmao
i cant unhear it now
i feel like they both have merit in different styles, obviously being slightly flat the "taylor" tuning isnt as bright which gives it more soul, better for blues or maybe even just rythm playing. i find that standard fits better in a lead role. thats just opinion though
There might be a case for tuning sharper, because strings can slip, or get looser due to temperature changes, or just from heat generated from bending the strings. He mentions that it's not an exact science. To each his own, but I think it's just common sense to tune to the actual pitch of the guitar a few seconds after you pick the string. I have been doing this for years. Also another guy mentioned tuning without a tuner, and I think tuning without a tuner using the 5th fret can also have a similar effect.
Casey Van tune as soon as you strike the note. The idea is the guitar is a flawed intrument , it is, and you have to compensate. But don't tune few seconds after striking, you'll go sharp when playing. it is Really noticeable on the g
Juan Valdez My point is you can see all this on the scope or tuner. When you strike the notes you can see them drift, so when tuning you can compensate. I re watched the video and he said that if you hit the bass strings hard it will ring sharper. So why not just hit the bass strings hard, then tune it exact rather than remembering this? It's difficult to get over the habit of playing light when tuning, because the note doesn't drift as much. So this is the thing I need to do. I need to strike the notes harder as I would normally play, then observe the drift over time and try to find the sweet spot.
Scott Grove says essentially the same thing... I agree...
Another great lesson, thanks Paul your a true inspiration.
I have just re-tuned the Martin, wow. How have I never known this before.
Thanks my friend keep up the good work. ✌️
Good Job Paul. I appreciate your Unique Insight. It's very helpful and genuine. Thank you Bro :-)
It is simple physics and psycho-acoustics that piano tuners have know for a couple hundred years.
Yep. A good tuner only needs one tuning fork and a good pair of ears to accurately tune a piano. Relative pitch is way more important in harmony than absolute pitch.
Wes Tolson true, unless you play together with other instruments which are perfectly in tune
Which in my experience playing a few different instruments in ensembles--ranging from duets to full on concert bands--will never happen. One of the best lessons I've learned is to tune your instrument to close to absolute pitch, then put it away while tuning the group.
Duane Brocious This. Piano's have been detuned forever.
What, may I ask, is "perfectly in tune?" As this branch falls under things any piano tuner (worth his salt) knows, the concept of "perfect" is virtually NOT in OUR WORKING DICTIONARY! No stringed instruments are free from the laws of physics that make piano tuning an art just as much as a science; likewise, brass or tubular bell frequencies stray widely from whatever your concept of "perfect" might be. Anyone that's done a strictly mathematical analysis of frequencies of fundamentals and harmonics in common chords will soon leave "perfect" out of the discussion. If this isn't enough, take a gander at the many historical temperaments that have been tried. If you think that the equal temperament commonly used today is a "perfect" solution, I refer you back to that mathematical analysis!
Back on the original topic, though, the reason that JT's suggestion may sound better on many guitars (and each will vary widely because of the spacing of frets and bridge fine-tuning and the choice of strings) is the same reason that piano tuners "stretch" the tuning away from the theoretical frequency relative to an A440 (gradually going sharper going up the sale and flatter going down). Each string produces higher harmonics than the fundamental frequency, and most guitarists use the harmonics to help tune (in the absence of a e-tuner). To align the upper harmonics with the next higher string will require pulling it a little flat, which is the sort of stretch used for pianos, too.
As it happens, tuning a piano involves a whole BOATLOAD of compromises, in an attempt to minimize the aural discomfort of two or more almost-but-not-quite-matching frequencies. Likewise in a guitar, one can tune so that some chords sound FANTASTIC but at the expense of others that will sound AWFUL! At least there are only 6 strings in question for a guitar - and they're easily tweaked in situ.
Ouch - my fingers are tired.
I can't hear that one is sharper or flatter, or more in tune than the other, but I can hear that one (Taylor tuning) sounds warmer and prettier
yeah warmer thats the word i was looking for. It does sound a lot better doesnt it?
Exactly what I was thinking
Yeah I felt it sounded warmer aswell
Believe it was just in the way the strings harmonized together
Paul, thank you for your demonstration of something that relates to ALL of us!
Hey Paul, I can hear the difference and have messed around with these variations in tuning myself. Not as extensively as you but I explore none the less. I am a novice at the guitar game....I really dig what you've got going on. Safe Journeys
I can’t even afford one of those guitars, let alone two. Your brother plays pretty good, too.
I don't even think I have a guitar in standard anymore actually...I tend to tune down. My main 3 are in D standard, Dropped C, and Dropped B. I have a fourth in B Standard as well. I can hear the differences in your video though. As others have said it sounds like the "taylor" tuning resonates better, and sounds a bit darker. the standard is brighter and clearer. 99% of people won't hear the actual tuning difference though, in my opinion, but the feeling of it is there even if people don't know why. Very informative video, enjoyed it!
Thank you for a fun, entertaining, informative video. You play great.
Interesting presentation, keep up the good work!
I always tune my low E slightly flat as well as the G string. E has tendency to go very sharp like he said, and bar chords rooted on the low E string sound so much better with the G just slightly flat. One of the harshest changes from just intonation to equal temperament was the minor third becoming quite sharp by about 20 cents so lowering it a little gives it a more natural sound.
Know what you're saying about the G string. But oh boy, does the common C and D chord sound crappy when you do this...
True, but with proper trus rod adjustments and intonation on a guitar all notes are equal no matter where you play them on the fret board negating the need to compensate with tuning.
You don't understand the subject.
Who? Me? Of course I do. This guy is saying tuning to the 0 cents leads to an undesirable sound, which is hilariously laughable. Any guitar intonated and a proper trus rod adjustment will sound beautiful and above all, proper. Try going back in time and telling Beethoven and Mozart to tune their keys a couple cents flat. Lol
It's all a matter of taste and perspective.
But I still think you don't get the point. Somehow.
Music perfection comes from imperfection!!! I usually tune my guitar with standard tuner (D#, D or C# tuning), then do the "tune check" around 5-12th fret to see if it's in tune or deviates a bit, depends on what and where I am recording (If I record stuff where I use 7-12 fret I tune my guitar to be in tune for that frets). In general the only string that I always "struggled" was a 3rd string, I always had to tune it a bit lower to sound right and musical, the rest are mostly fine tuned perfectly with a tuner! It all depends on your grip, technique, pressure, positioning... and ofc depends on the quality of the instrument! But, if you wanna 100% perfect tune, just use MIDI and samples... or NOT!
Wow, cool.to hear what difference those tunings make. I like the James Taylor sound better than the standard tuned sound. Awesome video!
I’ve always re tuned my guitar after using my tuner,I’ve always just thought that my tuners were junk! I guess I just have a good ear,I can feel the difference in my head,the wave just stands out so much in my head,thanks for the video! It cleared a lot up for me
3:10 The switch-over 5 seconds later. I can hear the tuning becoming tighter, better sounding.
kerpital that’s the moment where it stood out the most to me. I could hear the vibrations in the intervals on standard and then it just sounded like everything clicked into place with the Taylor tuning.
Thank you! This really helped pinpoint the difference for me. At first I was dismayed because I thought my ears were garbage!
Lol I have never heard of that but I did it intuitively after a while. I always thought it is because my guitar is cheap, so I dealt with it.
Also, finger pressure on the frets tend to make the pitch go higher on the thicker strings. And when you play with a capo you have to compensate for that as well.
DallasGreen123 -you know I thought the same thing of my rather expensive guitar, I ended up tuning it just a hair off of 0-cents, and sounds great! Glad I saw this video, you know after so many years of playing and then you find out that all this is normal makes you feel like we don't know all there is to know. In the end it all comes down to your own ear, and what YOU think is pleasing and correct. Take care.
no guitar is tuned perfectly. Hit the string 5 times and each will be a TINY bit different. They also sound differently when theyre plucked and a millisecond afterwards as you know from using a tuner etc. And absolutely noone frets perfectly every time
you are a man of good taste KEEP THAT GOING!!
Thanks Paul for a great video, a true apple-to-apples comparison (nice choice in guitar BTW.) I just bought a Peterson StroboClip HD tuner and so I'm immersed into their "Sweeting" tunings (ala Taylor offset tunings,) so this was very informative. I think your video makes it clear that it's not something to obsess about, but can be fun to. Again, nice job thanks!
They both sound OK to my cloth ears... I was speaking to Jeff Beck the other day and he was telling me he hardly bothers to get his guitar in tune; just bends the frigging strings to the pitch he needs! Oh, that was of course the... 'Jeff Beck' that runs the fish and chip shop at the end of my road. I won't talk to that other Jeff Beck until he returns the plectrum I loaned him!
Jeff Beck never hits a tone spot on - its terrible to listen to.
He makes great fish and chips though
Feces
@Funk63
Lol!
Jeff Beck doesn’t use a plectrum....his fingers pick every note
When I was young, a pianotuner came to us, his name was Liszt. He tuned the pianos in concert halls. I found his tuning not perfectly clean. He explained. It was a small piano. So he tuned the deep strings a bit deeper to make the sound full. The high strings he tuned higher for a more brilliant sound. When he was jounger, he once tuned a grand piano pure tempered. It sounded bad. So he had to do his work again. He did it never again.
Now I will try out if this works on a guitar, too.
Intonation needs to adjust for harmonics not just the fundamental, my theory at least.. so sweetened tunings could compensate for that. I have been giving them a shot on fretless bass lol
Thanks Paul. I like the way you suggest we think, rather than tell us what to think. Very unusual for the internet!
I love it when there is twice as much of you!
:-) "Ah, just do whatever you like!" There speaks a true musician.
i thought my ears were good, but i hardly heard any difference. i thought the Taylor tuning was slightly richer, but then i love James Taylor, so i would, right?
Doin' whatever you like gets you nowhere. Doesn't matter if it's in regards to music or anything else in life. And no, you CANT hear the real the difference because video compression of youtube. I mean there is a difference, you might hear it, depending on how good your headphones are, how good you hear in general, but if you don't use a top notch set of headphones, then... no.
:-) Thank you James, for such, uh, "sage", advice! Yeah, i'm not an argumentative sort of a guy, so i'll just say, "doing what the fuck i like", has worked the fuck for me, but i can understand why it hasn't for you, James.
Also, when i said the above, i was speaking as one muse-o, to another (and not to you), and players of music, are people who's very life's choice, IS to do EXACTLY what they want to do.
But hey, to little folk, like you, who would deny themselves even that possibility, "doing what you like", seems a phantasy beyond dreams, as indeed, it dutifully becomes, (while you'es dutifully become tedious fuckers).
My whole life is doing EXACTLY what i like, and until you told me differently, i would have said it's been a blast, you know, all the singing, all the playing, then there's the studio stuff, and the sound engineering and production, then there was teaching that dance class, (that WAS wild) then there was 10 years lecturing (sound recording technology, and music production) and then all the guitar tuition, it was such a gas, and that's before we even mention, all the shagging and all those psychedelics!
And, oh yeah, i recently started doing stand-up comedy (four spots in, first proper gig in April).
Yeah, i'm not an argumentative sort of a guy James, so i'll just say, doing what the fuck i like, has worked the fuck for me, mate, and will no doubt continue so to do.
But then i think there be one HUGE difference between me, and thee, James. . .
. . . i don't drink alcohol. . .
. . . And life is sweet as fuck, when you don't drink alcohol, mate.
If you are goanna feed your-self all that negative "no-can-do" bullshit, well you better hope to fuck reincarnation works, 'cause you've just fucked this life for yourself, with your dumb ass-negative bullshit.
Fucking brilliant mate!
Good job your a genius, so you can hand out all your know-it-all-know nothing bull-shit to everyone, so they can get the benefit of your low level limitations.
Good one James!
Best,
PS i'm listening through a 5.1(.2) studio monitoring system, comprising of 5 x 12" Tannoy dual concentric studio monitors, from the 80s, with two vintage JBL 15" bass drivers.
It's sweet! Know what i mean? Sorry, of course you don't, probably never will, sadness!
PPS, The only way you could make this anymore funny, would be if your clit fell off right now, james!
Love ya xxx
You're hypersensitive, aren't you? Since you talk a lot of BS here we go....
Ofc it's a good thing if you pursue your life goals. What I meant was more like... if you're like to rob a bank or shoot people well... it's stuff you can do, but.. leads you to nowhere.
Regarding music: I've seen "musicians" or music interested people writing music and getting frustrated after doing what they liked. They liked to write songs without any knowledge about it. They got nowhere.
I don't drink alcohol either, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the topic.
Yeah I can see you're into stand up comedy but there is a difference between being funny and just going full emo mode. You don't argue because you don't have arguments. You trash talk because you are defenseless.
So to summerize: You write an essay as a comment with no real content. You assume things which are not true. Your answer is "fuck off with your negative bullshit" - well that's a reaction from people who are about to commit suicide since they're mentally so unstable and can't cope with negativity. They are so afraid of being teared down by anything negative so they exclude it at all costs at any time. Because they're weak.
And you started to talk about your life and what you're doing. I don't care. Your genital joke doesn't work either. First you have to give the audience a premise. Then you come to the punch line. Simple as that.
I know it's difficult to be funny.
But... whatever.
And the best thing about your trash post was you talking about your mega awesome equipment. A lot of blabla. I work withing the recording business. What's the point of your 5.2 system? 2x bass? In what room are you even sitting? I mean you overlay harmonics and have to position your 2 subwoofers perfectly to achieve your smooth overlapping of frequencies. But yes, I'm not impressed. More of... amused trying to be the though guy.
"uuh look at my equipment I got this and that and stil can't hear shit because bla."
"uh look at me I'm a future Louis CK, I'm getting booked for children's birthday parties."
Here comes the irony Patricia: You talking about my off falling clitories, yet you overreact like feminazi, getting totally triggered by missunderstanding me because you lack intelligence and mature cool-headedness. I think you fucked yourself harder than you imagined trying to fuck me with your pseudo smart reply.
Get off your pony sweetheart, or you hurt yourself.
I love ya not too since I'm a sapiosexual, I love intelligent people, not wannabes. ;)
:-)
James, funny post but I think you meant to say " being torn down'
Personally I think it's more of a placebo effect than anything
Joshua Locklear True
No way Jose. Its not the greatest difference but the standard sounds rougher and less blended. I wanted to be sure so I tried closing my eyes after the first two swaps and opened them after calling when I recognized the Taylor tuning. Its subtle but definitely there.
Brenden Pedersen-Fritsch I did the same thing and just didn't really hear a difference but props to you for spotting it, wish I could
Joshua Locklear try to use headphones and or if you use an eq, turn it off. I can hear the difference on my phone so you should be able to as well.
Just focus on the overall body of sound and you'll hear it.
It's how the strings resonate with each other and the overall body of the sound, I definitely noticed a difference.
Actually our hearing structure limit our capability to distinguish small variations on frecuency of the sonic wave, but we are indeed really good at hearing disonances between two overlaped waves. This may be relevant when you are trying to put two different tunings together (different strings or instruments.)
Nice videos.
I have never really had an issue with standard tuning on an acoustic. As soon as I pick up an electric though I have always noticed that it sounds just slightly sharp in standard tuning. So I always tune an electric slightly flat to make it sound 'correct'. Now I know the reason for this. This has been most helpful for me. Many thanks!
0:14 It's a capoo.
He's Dutch :)
Kearress that was a joke from a Jared Dines video (It's not capoo either lmao)
+BLACKMETALWILL kapu
Well done, sir
Kay poe
Interesing video, but I personally hear no difference whatsoever.
Same. Zero difference.
Tone deaf
Listen deeper, with more focus? Maybe better monitoring(headphones/speakers)?
If you listen closely, the guitar in standard tuning sounds like it's ringing sharp on Here Comes the Sun
Deaf
That was amazing. Thank you for the insight.
great tip for a beginner - I have been a bit stressed about tuning until now. I had believed that all strings on my acoustic should be tuned very slightly sharp (of course I'm using an electronic tuner). I would look for the display to blink slightly in the red (sharp field) on every string. I'll try tuning slightly flat on all strings and see how I like it. BTW, I'm have a Seagull S6 - nothing so sweet as your collection but I'm loving it.
The real test would be to play along with other instruments like a keyboard/piano and see if the flat tuning fits in.
you have to tune the rest of the instruments to the same tuning
@@coolguyrecords3553 nope, he is compensating when the note is stuck and temporarily goes sharp
Who needs a keyboardist....
I think it would be very interesting to hear them at the same time to see what kind of a chorus effect it produces.
I am a beginner and thought to tune everything perfectly on my guitar. After a week of struggle I just stopped reaching that goal. There are simply so much variables: truss rod, nut hight, string inch, bridge, the way you press the string, the way you hit the string. Makes the note wiggle around ~20 cents or even more. Thank you for your video. Made me feel ok with being slightly off tuned guitar.
The difference with Taylor tuning is profound to me. It only works for me though if I am performing solo.
It does not work well when combined with other instruments in a band or group setting.
Good job explaining and demonstrating it!
What is the song at 3:53? It sounds lovely and a tutorial of that would be awesome :)
Fabbe Wettergren Autumn leaves ;)
Omg I did notice something...that Standard Tuning sounded a lot fuller and crisper. Thanks for the info!
It's subtle, but you can hear a difference especially in the low strings played up high. For example, on the Sting tune around the 5 minute mark, playing the B does get just a little sharp in "standard" tuning, but seems to play more "in tune" with the Taylor tuning. I've never tried this but I do play with a Capo often in my church setting on my acoustic with thick strings and of course, things go a little sharp. Most people wouldn't notice, but it's there. Might be worthwhile to give this a go and see how it plays out! I do remember seeing this video a while ago but thanks for the playing examples, the context is helpful!
I am studding this subject for a long time, and for me its no easy to ear the difference, but when I player I feel it, IMO all the modern music normal use the best tuning intervals and the other are using only in bossa nova. To solve this problem I used to micro bends to adjust a little bit the notes that’s stay out of tuning. Congratulations for the video and thank you.
I used to tune my guitar so the third fret was in perfect tune. Kinda works out like this.
Im assuming you play a lot in A
@@TheIgnoramus Nah I just had a really badly intonated guitar. Now I know how to intonate properly it's not an issue.
Do you record the whole track first off camera and then play along when you do the side by side? I'm trying to understand how you do it since your timing of coming in is always perfect.
You're such a great guitar player that I focused on you playing. I really couldn't hear much of a difference, but I've found myself letting my guitar be slightly flat when I tune it because it sounds better when I pick the strings hard, but... it's minimal.
It really worked out super cool... Cheers 🍻
I did not notice it all the time, but the Taylor tuned guitar "sparkles" more. I can hear the harmonics a lot clearer with Taylor tuning. Interesting, I'll try it on my Taylor.
Taylor with a Taylor tuning playing a Taylor Swift song.
Your last example with the minor thirds, 12TET vs JI, the JI third should be 15c HIGHER not lower. I think what we heard was 300c vs 285c (the second a bit darker), instead of 300c vs 315c (the second much richer), however there are many just intervals that 12-tone equal temperament tries to approximate, some with even larger errors. The natural minor seventh is a classic example, about 969c while a 12TET minor seventh is 1000c, so try two different tunings of a dominant seventh and you'll really hear it. For a D7, try 12ET (D, A, C, F#) vs JI with D+0, A+2, C-31, F#-14 or G7 with G+0, D+2, B-14, F-31, and you'll really hear the difference.
Of course, if you want all your major and minor chords close to just intonation in 12 keys, you either need 12 extra frets per octave, or you can do something like 19 equal divisions of the octave, where all the minor thirds are virtually perfect, and major thirds are about twice as in tune as they are in standard 12TET. 19 frets per octave is definitely manageable, and it presents a nice challenge with totally new tonalities and intervals
Hey I know I'm a month late on your comment, but I just found this video today. I'm confused about a few of your points. (ignoring much of the 1st paragraph)
What do you mean by tuning to a Dominant 7th? I'm assuming you mean a Mm7 chord, or a V7, but that's only four notes. You give an example of this, "D,A,C,F#" but that's not any chord I've heard about. A D Dominant 7 would be D,F#,A,Eb. So because of this, I don't think you mean a V7 chord. This is what confuses me. So I guess I'm asking is, what? You suggest tuning only 4 strings? Why the seemingly random notes?
I'm coming at this from a musician's background, and you seem to be wanting to be a luthier? Maybe this is why.
I'm a musician, been playing piano since I was 8. Definitely not a luthier! But I am very interetsed and involved in tuning theory.
You are right that I mean Mm7 or V7 when I wrote dominant seventh, but any book on theory will show you that the notes of a dominant seventh are P1-M3-P5-m7, or for D7, D-F#-A-C. All I've done is written them in a different order, nothing random about it.
Your D-F#-A-Eb would be D(b9), as the Eb makes a b9 with the root (D).
I was only suggesting tuning the highest 4 strings of the guitar to make it a bit easier. If you want to tune the bottom two strings too, then I'd suggest the low E string dropped to D and A string +2c on the D7 chord, or For the G7 chord, keep the E string at +/-0c for the fretted G (third fret) and drop the A string by 14c if you're fretting the B (second fret) there
Does that help to clarify things?
Haha, you're right. Sorry man, remind me not to do theory math when I first wake up.
I'm still a big proponent of standard tuning, maybe because I'm just used to it. Why would tuning to a dominant 7th be any better? Quick barre chords?
19-ET also maps unambiguously onto normal Western music, excluding music which explicitly assumes the use of 12-ET like many atonal pieces and most jazz. I use different temperaments at times, sometimes even changing during the course of a piece, but I have the luxury of doing it electronically. If I want to pull the third of a major chord ten cents flat _here_ but not _there,_ I can do that. Most of the time I don't bother, but the slower the tempo and the more sparse the texture, the more it makes sense to put in the effort to use a better tuning system than 12-ET. Which one? Try several if need be.
You can sample various temperaments being used on the same composition here:
mal-2.bandcamp.com/album/gonzo-lullaby-temperament-tests
By the way, your videos are awesome. I like and appreciate them very much ....
Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Being someone who constantly tunes by ear (at least to E Standard and Eb Standard, I have the notes memorized) the strings normally end up sounding like the Taylor tuning because to my ears the "perfect cents" normal tuning always sounds a bit sharp. Maybe that's a sign that the "perfect" tuning doesn't resonate perfectly with the human ears, like with the 440hz vs 432 hz theories.
nah it's just your state of being which affects how your body/mind perceives the varying frequencies. Personally, I hear "perfect" guitar tuner tuning as completely out of tune... but then again i'm really fussy about shit like that. Some days I notice it does not sound so out, but other days... dayam.
I have a similar experience, and also seem to be very fussy, unless i can't be bothered when playing gets hectic when other players are involved. It seems sometimes everyone is out of tune, cause of intonation differences in players and their moods...
kuro.i yeah I usually run a little flat when I tune by ear and then standard won't sound right with a tuner
it isn't necessarily that its perfect tuning, taylor tuning is more perfect in a way perhaps. The system of tuning is based on the assumption of 'perfect strings', which are hypothetical. Real strings change pitch over the time of a note, and their harmonics are not necessarily perfect either due to imperfections. that's the reason we have to adjust intonation by string length on electric guitars differently for strings too.
also the distinction between 440 and 432 are completely arbitrary
kuro.i I'm usually flat to the "perfect" standard when I tune by ear 😅
It's the same... Just like all the wines are the same....
This makes a lot of sense! I try to compensate for the harmonics being out of tune with the fundamental on strings by balancing dissonance between low overtones rather than just the fundamental when tuning by ear. The tuner always says I'm off a little, but my friends say their guitars sound better after I tune them this way.
Great Playing either way. Beautiful sound.
First: may I ask you for the song's names?
Second: my ocd does not allow me to enjoy the taylor tunning hahah
I only know the first one, unfortunately. It's Here Comes The Sun by The Beatles.
thank you dude!
PidamosPizza Being OCD has nothing to do with it.
Pte Basque MPC Well I can understand that perfect tuning appeals more to your OCD than Taylor tuning.
2:26 59th Street Bridge Song (Feelin' Groovy), Simon & Garfunkel
To me the one on the left seem to be a little brighter?
Correct. The Taylor tuning on the right was tuned a bit flat to make it sound less "overbright" when tension increase from fretting action and the swinging motion of the strings are accounted for.
Technically speaking it's definitely a thing for some playing styles, others won't ever notice one way or the other.
@@knownunknown7607 Oh. I thought he meant the guy on the right wasn't as smart.
That’s because he is wearing whiter shoes and getting more direct sunlight
I enjoyed this because I've always tuned slightly flat to get chords that ring more true to my ear. Especially the B string, getting it balanced so a G chord and a D chord sound good is my target. Sharp notes drive me crazy, at least if you hear one flat, you can bend it a bit until you grab the tuning peg. Also, you should always tune up to the note and give the string a little pull to make sure it's settled and stretched in that position on the peg, and nut. Like your videos, thanks Paul.
Good post. I tune to standard 440 using a Boss TU-2 pedal and tune to dead green, except for the B and the low E string which I need to tune just a tad bit flat on my Tele.
If your guitar seems to go in and out of tune when you play (some chords sound OK, others make you reach for the machine heads), use equal pressure on the strings. The harder you squeeze the neck, the sharper the pitch. Your fingers should only have to press hard enough to get a clear tone. Any harder and you are bending the string. The higher up the neck, the more susceptible to squeezing an in tune string out of tune. This is the most common tuning problem I come across.
Try this, make a D chord, and play the open D string with it. Now slide up past the octave play it again, again striking the open D string with it. Listen to the sustain. Hearing that oscillating? Now adjust the pressure on the strings with your fingers until the sustain on both positions as well as the open D string create no awkward oscillation. It should ring out as smooth as glass.
A long time ago I discovered that the human ear is more accurate that a crappy $10.00 tuner. Develop your ear, not a reliance on a crutch. When you are able to hear what string is out, and if it is sharp or flat, you have just made a quantum leap in your musicianship.
Before, I used to tune up my strings by ear when I was playing in my house which was a time consuming to get a perfect tune. But during commercial gigs, we have to use a tuner regularly for accurate speed tuning. Tommy Emmanuel has been actually using a tuner during his performance. While tuning his guitar, he crack some anecdotes to entertain the audience so as not to get them bored which is a nice strategy by a stage performer.
Interesting....but I prefer the tone on the standard tuning. It seems clearer, less muddy, and brighter.
John Egan - I agree with your ears, except I prefer the darker/warmer tuning.
It's literally a 'sharper' tone
You might say it sounds in tune. Lol
It's not muddy or dark.
Neither one sounds "more" or "less" in tune to me - I can't put my finger on why, but I preferred the standard tuning as well.
Thanks for your channel
I learn a lot