I really like this subclass, because it adds to everything a Druid can do; wild shape, summoning spells, damage. Most subclasses do one thing and ignore the others.
Matt Mercer has come up with some many awesome creations also I have read on a Google News letter after watching Vox Machina it inspired him to perfect his characters and creation some more I'm looking forward to seeing what the animation inspired him to bring to the game!
I really like this subclass. It is one of the druid subclasses that I would actually play. I thought you guys would score it a little higher though, it's not super strong or anything, but seems pretty well balanced.
Tbh, it's the only druid that's interested me. It's a dark summoner druid. True, it's not going to be the best; Shepherd's a better summoner, Moon's a better wildshaper, and there's better control druids. But this one's got minor buffs to /every/ part of its kit. Plant Growth or Web will bog down enemies in the aura; it's a boost to small CR summons and wildshape; it's got another body on the field; and there's tons of creative RP potential. If you're looking for a character that will dominate in their genre...well this ain't for you. But if you're always looking to be doing something helpful or fun in every situation, this looks like an incredibly fun subclass.
The saplings CR scales with proficiency bonus so the explosions with them scale pretty well! You can also polymorph them into some interesting options.
I feel like it would have been better to either link the Blighted Ground to the Wild Shape feature, using it instead with your Wild Shape charges, or let your Wild Shape apply to the summoned twig blight instead of yourself, transforming the pet into some decaying plant matter in the shape of whatever animal you would have turned into. So yeah, the CR is still limited, but if it's granted to an extra body on the field, that's far more useful.
I would have buffed the sapling and made it a pet using Wild Shape like Wildfire Spirit - and had the plus to AC from Blighted Form affect the plant at level 6 as opposed to you in wildshape which would help improve its survivability.
I am actually planning on running an evil campaign set in Barovia. This would fit right in. Also, all you have to do is place this class with an air genasi, and Bob's you're uncle, you are now Captain Polution.
Honestly so far, I really love the flavor of these new subclasses. And though yes I felt moon was weak, especially in comparison to Twilight, I still enjoy the thematics of all of these subclasses. The bar is still winning as my favorite subclass from all these classes
@@erikwilliams1562 Tru Tru, tho I'd say nobody can outheal the life domain, or be a good blaster like light. Tempest is still strong af as well. At higher levels, that's when Twilight does get stronger with it endless temp hp spam, bit honestly Clerics are just an overall good class.
And I should've wrote this on the main one, but I like the abilities Twilight gives you..... It feels right for this night avenger style hero. Moon is cool(and honestly before twilight I've always wanted a night domain cleric) and I like it's channel divinities, but Twilight feels right for a night themed character. The buff to dark vision, the shadow clock that you can fly in, those feel cooler and perfect for this night guardian. The Moon subclass isn't bad, it just doesn't give me that coolness that Twilight does.
@@CooperAATE yeah, but the thing is in my humble opinion, cleric is just an overall strong class. So anyone can have fun with any of it subclasses. My personal favorite will always remain the light domain, cuz I had a lot of fun feeling like a blaster and worshiping the eternal flame (a made up God we had in our camping)
I would argue for a burstie damage is pair that tainted ground ability with spike growth. And just cheese grater mobs threw the area. Feels alot like the blighted druid prestige class from 3.5
I feel like the flavor is meaningfully distinct. This is basically Death Domain to Spore's Grave. It also reminds me of Oathbreaker Paladin insofar as this is a basically a Fallen Druid, whereas Spore and Wildfire are just as devotedto nature as Land or Moon, just focusing on the destruction part of the creation-destruction cycle (other circles focusing on creation or preservation).
I have played a Moon Druid in the past and I am currently playing a Spores Druid. This version of the Druid doesn't sound like it would be fun to play. With all the subclass reviews you do, I find that I have more options that I would like to play than I have time or opportunity to actually play. A class like this, even if it was official content, wouldn't rise high on my list. Great job with the review as usual. The subclass might be meh but you two are S tier.
There is something you can with this class you can give these abilities to a young red dragon and change the narcotic damage to fire and boom you have Black Rose Dragon from Yu-gi-oh 5D.
I have to stress that I am not someone versed in how these two individuals judge their combat scores, but after hearing and reading the abilities I am confused as to how this class only got what appears to be a 3/5. I admit the druid isn't the best minion class in the game, but this subclass looks like it should pop off at lvl 10. The reaction to summon a sapling that can do 4d8+1d4(necrotic) on death is pretty damn good especially since it isn't a spell slot you have to expend to create it. The minions you create will give advantage to other members of your party attacking them but that isn't the best part. Like all minions dmg they take is dmg that your frontline DOESN'T take, but they also punish the attacker when they are slain. This makes summons far more dangerous and the additional actions that are taken on your turn shouldn't be overlooked. And that is all before you realize you have at least an 8 tile zone of bonus dmg that can zone/separate enemies that just keeps getting stronger and larger. I know I fall in the type of dnd player that loves combat a little bit more than rp, but this potential on a druid that can freely change spells every day just sounds crazy good when you get the levels. It just gives you so much battlefield control in a way I have not seen from a druid and that fascinates me of what this class can overcome with the tools at it's disposal.
Our biggest hold up is that the main abilities (defile ground and therefore blighted sapling) are once per short rest abilities. This makes those two abilities often times only a 1 or 2 use per day ability unless the DM is really generous with short rests. 4d8+1d4 sounds like a lot, but on average is only 18 damage which is comparable to about a 3rd level spell (also consider at level 11 your cantrips scale to 3 dice, so an average produce flame for example is about 12 damage) and you cannot ignore that it is a Con save which most monsters have good con stat especially as you get higher level. ALSO, the save is an all or nothing save not a half damage on fail save (don’t forget it’s only 5 foot range as well) Not sure where you are getting the minions giving advantage as that isn’t part of the ability. My guess is you are referencing flanking. We do not consider flanking into our rating because that is an optional rule and not everyone uses it. We also look at the rest of the abilities which we weren’t super excited about either. Hope that gives a little more input into how we got to our score. Thanks for watching!
@@URGE Ahh ok. I missed the part where it was an all or nothing save that does change how I look at the bonus. I thought it was 1/2 on a fail which is my bad for overlooking it. And yea flanking works really well with multiple summons/minions but I was also thinking of the help action to assist player characters could still be good. Using a turn to help someone is a lot worse than doing dmg in most cases but giving advantage to some classes can lead to unexpected dmg output (rouges being the probable best abusers). I also admit I have a huge bias since I had one player use minions in one of my campaigns to deadly efficiency and trounced many encounters I had thought where deadly. I saw the potential for some similar shenanigans and just felt confused. - ps thanks for taking time to respond it helped me understand how you evaluated the class better.
@@URGE one other question do you have a video that you can point me to watch where you did give a class a 5 in either rp or combat? I have a bit more downtime than usual and it is always interesting hearing thoughts and impressions of others.
Man I really have to disagree with u on the role play value here this is an extremely strong theme and the abilities def reinforce the image of a corruption druid or anti druid if u will
As we say, we are looking at direct impact of abilities in RP such as gaining bonuses to ability checks, proficiencies, etc. not looking at it from a flavor aspect. Straight mechanics. Flavor wise, it is great. Thanks for watching!
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I really like this subclass, because it adds to everything a Druid can do; wild shape, summoning spells, damage. Most subclasses do one thing and ignore the others.
I've always wanted some kind of Anti-Druid, and while this isn't necessarily exactly how I'd do it, it's pretty darn cool.
I really like the flavour of the subclass, it’s kind of like if Spores met Wildfire, thanks for the review guys! 👍
Matt Mercer has come up with some many awesome creations also I have read on a Google News letter after watching Vox Machina it inspired him to perfect his characters and creation some more I'm looking forward to seeing what the animation inspired him to bring to the game!
I really like this subclass. It is one of the druid subclasses that I would actually play. I thought you guys would score it a little higher though, it's not super strong or anything, but seems pretty well balanced.
Tbh, it's the only druid that's interested me. It's a dark summoner druid. True, it's not going to be the best; Shepherd's a better summoner, Moon's a better wildshaper, and there's better control druids. But this one's got minor buffs to /every/ part of its kit. Plant Growth or Web will bog down enemies in the aura; it's a boost to small CR summons and wildshape; it's got another body on the field; and there's tons of creative RP potential.
If you're looking for a character that will dominate in their genre...well this ain't for you. But if you're always looking to be doing something helpful or fun in every situation, this looks like an incredibly fun subclass.
The saplings CR scales with proficiency bonus so the explosions with them scale pretty well! You can also polymorph them into some interesting options.
Really liking all the flavor written into the abillities in Tal'Dorei reborn.
I feel like it would have been better to either link the Blighted Ground to the Wild Shape feature, using it instead with your Wild Shape charges, or let your Wild Shape apply to the summoned twig blight instead of yourself, transforming the pet into some decaying plant matter in the shape of whatever animal you would have turned into. So yeah, the CR is still limited, but if it's granted to an extra body on the field, that's far more useful.
Was excited to hear about this and I think the subclass could be optimized a bit better. Thanks for reviewing this guys!
Loving this series. I can’t wait until I get my copy to share with my players!
I would have buffed the sapling and made it a pet using Wild Shape like Wildfire Spirit - and had the plus to AC from Blighted Form affect the plant at level 6 as opposed to you in wildshape which would help improve its survivability.
I am actually planning on running an evil campaign set in Barovia. This would fit right in.
Also, all you have to do is place this class with an air genasi, and Bob's you're uncle, you are now Captain Polution.
Honestly so far, I really love the flavor of these new subclasses. And though yes I felt moon was weak, especially in comparison to Twilight, I still enjoy the thematics of all of these subclasses. The bar is still winning as my favorite subclass from all these classes
everything is weak compared to twilight
@@erikwilliams1562 Tru Tru, tho I'd say nobody can outheal the life domain, or be a good blaster like light. Tempest is still strong af as well. At higher levels, that's when Twilight does get stronger with it endless temp hp spam, bit honestly Clerics are just an overall good class.
And I should've wrote this on the main one, but I like the abilities Twilight gives you..... It feels right for this night avenger style hero. Moon is cool(and honestly before twilight I've always wanted a night domain cleric) and I like it's channel divinities, but Twilight feels right for a night themed character. The buff to dark vision, the shadow clock that you can fly in, those feel cooler and perfect for this night guardian. The Moon subclass isn't bad, it just doesn't give me that coolness that Twilight does.
Literally nothing fairly competes with Twilight or Peace. lol
@@CooperAATE yeah, but the thing is in my humble opinion, cleric is just an overall strong class. So anyone can have fun with any of it subclasses. My personal favorite will always remain the light domain, cuz I had a lot of fun feeling like a blaster and worshiping the eternal flame (a made up God we had in our camping)
i cast flock of familiars and move them to the enemy. then my friend casts fireball on the area and my familiars form a necrotic fireball
The sapling also have the extra damage from the terrain, so at the end is a great damage
I would argue for a burstie damage is pair that tainted ground ability with spike growth. And just cheese grater mobs threw the area.
Feels alot like the blighted druid prestige class from 3.5
I really wanted this book to tell us about the 3rd campaign subclasses but the new subclasses are really cool
I guess the next book will have them after the campaign ends and they’ve been thoroughly play tested
Now, im considering playing as a druid next time looks really fun.
I feel like the flavor is meaningfully distinct. This is basically Death Domain to Spore's Grave. It also reminds me of Oathbreaker Paladin insofar as this is a basically a Fallen Druid, whereas Spore and Wildfire are just as devotedto nature as Land or Moon, just focusing on the destruction part of the creation-destruction cycle (other circles focusing on creation or preservation).
That's a unique approach to Druids
I had a concept for a mushroom themed druid for a wild, I guess i won't be going spores anymore
This reminds me a lot of Maokai from LoL. Cool concept and for a subclass. Thank you for the review.
I have played a Moon Druid in the past and I am currently playing a Spores Druid. This version of the Druid doesn't sound like it would be fun to play. With all the subclass reviews you do, I find that I have more options that I would like to play than I have time or opportunity to actually play. A class like this, even if it was official content, wouldn't rise high on my list.
Great job with the review as usual. The subclass might be meh but you two are S tier.
Thanks for watching!
Great break down, and gotta love happy accidents.
There is something you can with this class you can give these abilities to a young red dragon and change the narcotic damage to fire and boom you have Black Rose Dragon from Yu-gi-oh 5D.
My man, finally shaved that head. As another bald man I say, welcome brother.
Alex looking good now 😁
I like that they covered the no cr possibility
i like the abilities they would be great to apply to a npc/villain. but for pc our summons are usally a special summon or swarm stat.
I like this idea: Nature surviving pollution.
YAYY vid came out on my b day too ^_^
It almost feels more like a warlock class, like a _Lord of Pestilence_ or _Plague Lord_ type of thing, just need to modify the wiled shape ability.
Kind of seams like a mean shepherd druid
I’ve been looking for the right Druid subclass to start with. And I kinda think this might be the one.
Combo/mix this with the spores Druid for a druid of moander would be pretty cool
The Blighted Druid
For the Druid trying to impress a goth kid.
But seriously now all I want to do is build a Darkspawn
I'm trying one out in Strixhaven
I think this circle might replace circle of spores for me in my next campaign.
i get similar vibes to the circle of spores
Damn this subclass is awsome
This makes me think of a hunter that somehow is a park ranger
now that is neat
It;s so creepy!!! Love it!
YAS!!!
Different take on the druid. Though I like the exploding minions idea. Lots of lil burst damage.
I would like to see your opinion on the items
Happy Hands!
I have to stress that I am not someone versed in how these two individuals judge their combat scores, but after hearing and reading the abilities I am confused as to how this class only got what appears to be a 3/5.
I admit the druid isn't the best minion class in the game, but this subclass looks like it should pop off at lvl 10. The reaction to summon a sapling that can do 4d8+1d4(necrotic) on death is pretty damn good especially since it isn't a spell slot you have to expend to create it.
The minions you create will give advantage to other members of your party attacking them but that isn't the best part. Like all minions dmg they take is dmg that your frontline DOESN'T take, but they also punish the attacker when they are slain. This makes summons far more dangerous and the additional actions that are taken on your turn shouldn't be overlooked. And that is all before you realize you have at least an 8 tile zone of bonus dmg that can zone/separate enemies that just keeps getting stronger and larger.
I know I fall in the type of dnd player that loves combat a little bit more than rp, but this potential on a druid that can freely change spells every day just sounds crazy good when you get the levels. It just gives you so much battlefield control in a way I have not seen from a druid and that fascinates me of what this class can overcome with the tools at it's disposal.
Our biggest hold up is that the main abilities (defile ground and therefore blighted sapling) are once per short rest abilities. This makes those two abilities often times only a 1 or 2 use per day ability unless the DM is really generous with short rests.
4d8+1d4 sounds like a lot, but on average is only 18 damage which is comparable to about a 3rd level spell (also consider at level 11 your cantrips scale to 3 dice, so an average produce flame for example is about 12 damage) and you cannot ignore that it is a Con save which most monsters have good con stat especially as you get higher level. ALSO, the save is an all or nothing save not a half damage on fail save (don’t forget it’s only 5 foot range as well)
Not sure where you are getting the minions giving advantage as that isn’t part of the ability. My guess is you are referencing flanking. We do not consider flanking into our rating because that is an optional rule and not everyone uses it.
We also look at the rest of the abilities which we weren’t super excited about either.
Hope that gives a little more input into how we got to our score. Thanks for watching!
@@URGE Ahh ok. I missed the part where it was an all or nothing save that does change how I look at the bonus. I thought it was 1/2 on a fail which is my bad for overlooking it. And yea flanking works really well with multiple summons/minions but I was also thinking of the help action to assist player characters could still be good. Using a turn to help someone is a lot worse than doing dmg in most cases but giving advantage to some classes can lead to unexpected dmg output (rouges being the probable best abusers).
I also admit I have a huge bias since I had one player use minions in one of my campaigns to deadly efficiency and trounced many encounters I had thought where deadly. I saw the potential for some similar shenanigans and just felt confused.
- ps thanks for taking time to respond it helped me understand how you evaluated the class better.
@@URGE one other question do you have a video that you can point me to watch where you did give a class a 5 in either rp or combat? I have a bit more downtime than usual and it is always interesting hearing thoughts and impressions of others.
@@Samuel-nj4yy haven't watched it but I'm going to guess that their moon druid video got a 5 in combat. Just based on how strong that class is
Maokai sappling.
Great idea for a nature lover who keeps killing their plants on accident.
I prefer circle of the spore to be honest...
Also Spores is an official subclass :) thanks for watching!
not really a fan of this subclass, but is an interesting subclass nonetheless. :D
What about flock of familiar
Tbh isn’t that summons
It’s not on your list but when you get it that’s a bit
Man I really have to disagree with u on the role play value here this is an extremely strong theme and the abilities def reinforce the image of a corruption druid or anti druid if u will
As we say, we are looking at direct impact of abilities in RP such as gaining bonuses to ability checks, proficiencies, etc. not looking at it from a flavor aspect. Straight mechanics. Flavor wise, it is great. Thanks for watching!
I hate it... Worst druid imaginable. Only maybe usable to make shadowdruid enemies