Druid Subclass Tier Ranking in Dungeons and Dragons 5e
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- MONSTERS OF DRAKKENHEIM is 300+ pages of eldritch horror inspired monsters for 5e by the Dungeon Dudes! Coming to Kickstarter March 26th, 2024: www.kickstarte... We take a look at the officially released Druid subclasses in Dungeons and Dragons 5e and discuss our rankings on which ones truly shine for the Druid, and which ones fall short. We then compare our rankings with those of the community to give a well rounded view of the Druid.
This video was SPONSORED by the Grimhollow Player's Guide now live on Kickstarter! bit.ly/3mEYd2O
TIME STAMPS
1:31 - Ranking Overview
2:51 - Circle Of Dreams
7:55 - Circle Of Spores
14:59 - Circle Of The Land
20:41 - Circle Of The Moon
26:26 - Circle Of The Shepherd
31:47 - Community Rankings
34:56 - Final Comparison
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Missed opportunity to say, "Every other subclass is eclipsed by the the Circle of the Moon."
That's awesome but the spore druid is infectious
And the circle of dreams is a nightmare
the circle of the land is more grounded on the classic nature druid though
The circle of the sheperd has lead us here....
The Circle of Stars has got to be the best subclass now.
When 5e first came out I had a player who wasn't very happy with Circle of the Land. We sat down with the group and decided that whenever he finished a long rest, his spell list changed depending on the type of terrain that he rested in. He ended up loving it because it let him see more of the subclass and they even took the risk of resting in more dangerous places just for the spell list.
That's brilliant!
I like this buff. Did you play the change as mandatory or could he choose to keep his prior list? I imagine it can be a bummer to, for example, be forced into the Arctic list, when a lot of enemies you're going to face there have resistance/immunity to cold (though damage spells aren't always the important ones).
Graf
We played it as mandatory, but there were a few situations where he could choose because we camped at the edge of the forest along a grasslands, base of the mountain, brink of the underdark, and things like that. That campaign had a lot of time in cities too, so we made a city spell list but I don’t remember what spells were on it.
@@mikecerutti4721 I really like this idea. Might try a circle of land druid if the DM will let me use this change. I'm also a fan of wild magic sorcerers with random daily spell lists, so this would give another option to explore more spells. I sort of wish clerics could refocus themselves to different aspects of their patron deity for a similar effect, but that would be changing whole class features, which would be a bigger pain.
This is such a cool view of the sub-class, nice one :)
"Bear in mind"
"Bear in mind"
"Bear in mind"
No no, guys. We're talking about druids today. They're bear in *body* when they wildform.
I heard this and it killed me every time
“Un-bear-ably good”
Man in Mind
Bear in Body
Moon druid+bear totem is truly a bearbarian.
Lmaooo, this is amazing
When you talked about Circle of Shepherd standing back and summoning and not doing much else, my brain went "So basically you're a pokemon trainer?"
Pretty much
Yes
Shit I love it already
Druids also get Planar Binding. Imagine a 10 year old Archdruid walking calmly towards a Tarrasque with several hags, angels, fiends, and elementals behind them.
@@itwasidio1736 ... ... ... I have to make this character now this is amazing
One thing about the temps the Circle of Spores provides that wasn't addressed was that, yes, a Moon Druid can indeed get a lot of extra HP with wild shape as well, but the Spore Druid can get those HP without sacrificing their ability to cast spells.
I'm not used to seeing you outside of your own channel. It's interesting seeing how the opinions of content creators vary
I think that's one of the weaknesses of Druids in general (and Moon in particular) that no one talks about, they are good casters and wild shape is a neat ability, but they have essentially no synergy with one another. You're always doing one or the other unless your campaign goes to an absurdly high level
Yeah, but other than that… what does the class really give you? Everything the spore druid gives you is pretty underwhelming. You get extra poison damage on a melee hit, on a class that does not want to be in melee range (remember that you cant wear anything better than leather armor and a shield), and a small range aura that you can trigger ONCE each turn, it costs you your reaction and the damage is so low, even a normal Goblin would laugh it off, and thats IF you deal damage, since the save or suck mechanic means potential you just wasted your reaction for nothing.
Then you get to level 6, and while I do agree that most Level 6 Druid Spells are underwhelming, except for Moon and Shepard, yours is just... so bad… again you have to give up your reaction, you raise one CR 1/4 Zombie and it has 1 HP... One measly HP. That thing might be able to distract one enemy for one turn, eating one attack and die, if you are lucky and pass the con save maybe 2, but thats only if the enemy even considers the Zombie a threat in the first place, since at Level 6, you will mostly fight enemies who are not really scared of a Creature with 20 feet movement speed, a +3 to hit and a 1d6+1 damage output… I mean every average enemy can just kite the Zombie forever.
Your Level 10 ability is something that should just be part of the wild shape form at level 2. I mean, lets compare it to other Druids: At Level 10, the moon druid can already transform into CR3 Beasts for a whole level and can now decide to transform into an Elemental, The Shepard gains an AoE Heal for his creatures added to his totem, Nature gets immunity to the most common damage type, Dream learns to teleport people around 5 times day… and you? You get the ability to throw your weak spore aura at an enemy, having the possibility (if the enemy fails the con save) to do your 2d8, no modifier, damage… maybe you get lucky and can block a choke point, 10*10 is an ok size, but most of the time you get 1 enemy with that. This should have been an extra feature of your Level 2 Wildshape ability not a Level 10.
I cant say anything bad about the Capstone ability though, level 14, you get maybe the strongest boost of all druids. Being immune to crits and to the most common status effects in the game is freaking great. On every other subclass, I would worry that its even overpowered, but on the Spore Druid? Its barely enough to say "meh, its ok..." when you look at the whole package. And thats ignoring that only a few campaigns get to level 14 and then keep going for long enough to make it count…
Sensei has spoken!
Blaguard I don’t know if it’s synergy, but wild shaping and spell casting can work well together since you can maintain concentration on a spell when you are wildshaped. So you can cast Faerie Fire, Heat Metal, etc, with your Action, then turn into a bear with your Bonus Action. But since you’re front lining while hoping to maintain concentration, War Caster is a must.
From DMing experience, the shepherds ability to give its 8 1/4 CR summons enough HP to survive one attack. That’s all it takes. S tier imo
Counterpoint: battlefield congestion. Good if your party lacks a solid frontline. But if you have 2-3 characters who are trying to get in there, adding 4 large or 8 medium critters can make things tricky. Triply so if you’re fighting in confined spaces.
@@villainvoice5143 Tempting, it comes down to the player: Shepherds can be good swarmers, so it comes down to 'how many is right?'.
Villain Voice for sure, in those scenarios it’s definitely on the Druid to summon accordingly. As a DM I don’t mind letting the Druid choose the summons with the exception of summon woodland beings, which we roll on that one. Purely bc of the flying trex nonsense
Plant growth and giant owls. I completely gutted a big zombie Encounter on an Open field this way.
Especially if you’re summoning pixies who can use polymorph
I really like the spore druid idea. And i really feel like the aura shouldn't have been a reaction, just an auto effect at the start of creatures turn.
That, and make any zombies you raise also have the same spore aura. That would propel the class way up there and actually make it compete with moon.
For a great example of the spore druid, check out (one of the characters in the first campaign of) NADDPOD (Not Another D&D PODcast), if you enjoy that kind of thing. Awesome campaign of 100 episodes, amazing story arcs, characters (players!), I highly recommend :D
I played the Spore druid when it was UA. Then played when it was finalized. I love the idea of spore druid and I still like playing one... I love the role play it introduces and surprise from the DM that I am not just another Moon druid.
Improvements I would love to see.
1. Aura not a reaction
2. Maybe a d size Improvement with better scaling for the symbiote.
3. Maybe a choice.. zombie improvements or zombie auras.
3. Scaling zombie stats.
I was thinking to rule that if a creature dies insise the aura it makes an Con save, if it fails it come back as a spore zombie. Then all zombies get a poisonous attack if a creature dies after fail a con save from this poisonous attack It becomes a spore zombie even outside the aura. But I have to say, spore druid plus Oathbreaker could be a fun combo.
@@AndrewChumKaser As a DM I always made each zombie explode with a lingering cloud of necrotic damage (or whatever effect their attack is flavored as, I often allowed for a replacement of necrotic damage for the hallucinogenic sporeclouds as per Myconids). So if there is a way to make them more mobile along with this AND only adjacent aura for the zombies as well with only minimal effects until they explode with the full on effect allows so much more. This allows for utility, it allows for attacks, it allows for defense, and it allows for theme.
A player of mine was Circle of Shepherd and while it fit his character perfectly he was frustrated that his class was summoning based but you don't get your first summoning spell until 5th level, then finally augment that at 6th level. While a minor frustration it took the group a while to reach 5th level. I think the hardest part when rating subclasses is the fact that most campaigns will never see all capabilities.
Hello from the future! As of Tashas they get a summon spell at 3rd level now, a damn good one at that 🙂 your totem also buffs your familiar at 2nd level
@@PsyrenXY if you can somehow manage to get that awful component that makes no damn sense, yeah. Unfortunately, was not able to so with my druid.
@@dexeronstarsurge Lol, what's difficult about finding a guilded acorn worth at least 200 gp?
Surely an item available at every blacksmith shop or general goods store!
@@broomemike1 in my campaign the dm makes us players have to work for any material components with gold cost
@@eeveegirl009 Cool! Like have proficiency and find an acorn to guild?
2:45 Circle of Dreams
7:47 Circle of Spores
15:00 Circle of the Land
20:45 Circle of the Moon
26:30 Circle of the Shepard
31:50 Results
Thank you! Excellent reference.
Thank you so much for this
Thanks, the video is so boring I fell asleep halfway through it.
The mvp
The thing ya’ll missed w the Dream Druids is, having those skills in abilities instead of spells means they can used while Wild Shaped.
That is true. Although I don't find myself Wild Shaping a lot since I'm the go to healer of the party.
@@redholm how has that been working for you? I was planning on going moon druid for a west marches game but I'd like to be more healing focused. I know wild shape kind of fizzles out in the higher tiers so I'd like to provide something other than just raw damage
@@dren5810 Pretty well. In just 1 level I get that better version of Misty Step :P Hidden Paths should be a pretty good ability to get me anywhere I need to go on the battlefield. 5 Times per long rest. I mean. I can teleport either 60 Feet or send someone else 30 feet. The sending someone else 30 feet is so good. Tank out of position and going after the NPC? Well. Why not Teleport him into position?
@@redholm As someone who is currently playing a paladin, having a party member who can teleport me would be a god send haha. Tbf I'm level 16 now so its not that much of an issue but yeah its the utility that draws me to the dreams druid, the teleport, the healing that does not cost spell slots! I'm not concerned with raw damage as I have other people to take care of that. All I want is for my druid to be able to set other people up to do cool shit and keep them alive.
@@dren5810 Yea same here. I also use those Healing dice to heal small injuries. Since it's 1d6 and you choose how many. Instead of it being 1d8+5 at lowest. It's honestly really nice to have. In the same way Lay on Hands is really handy for small injuries.
Alter Self at will might SEEM like a lackluster ability, but that's only in terms of combat potential. What this ability actually does is roundout the Moon druid's *only* weakness: social interaction. Alter self *at will* means that high level moon druids can be anyone... they effectively become dopplegangers.
They also get a swim speed and water breathing at will without using a spell slot
And melee attacks are available if you, for some reason, didn't take primal savagery as a cantrip
I have a circle of dreams druid/ bard multiclass with 20 wisdom.
He currently has a +5 proficiency bonus.
Used the bard to take expertise in perception.
Also took the observant feat.
So my mans has a 30 passive perception
Aaaaand, when using Hearth of Moonlight and Shadow during rests. He can get a 40 perception check lol. Wheres your rogue now??
My party calls him Sauron because his eyes see *everything*
This is my favorite comment in this video. "Where's your rogue now" I feel so insulted, Rogues passive perception only ever got to 28😭😭😭
EYE SEE YOU
"Ability Acquired: True sight"
Btw, that's higher than Ancient Dragons
My player did that with a full class druid... no surprise ambushes on that campaing
To me the shepherd druid has always felt more like the classical image of a druid than the moon druid. Yeah the moon druid channels the power of nature through themselves, transforming into the strongest of creatures mother nature has ever offered. But to me the shepherd, putting down totems, calling upon and summoning the animals of the forest and being able to casually speak with them too, that to me is the real image of a druid. Both of these subclasses are my favorites tho, love both.
Regarding Dreams, I think Monty is being too harsh on it, since he rated Life domain cleric so highly for the same reasons he's rating Dreams lower (healing without using spell slots, Life cleric's domain list is comprised of spells that are already cleric spells).
Yeah plus your shelter ability means the wizard gets to use a different spell instead of always taking the kinda op tiny hut spell
Yeah, I disagree with Monty on that one. With the Dreams’ healing, they can now prepare something other than healing word, and they can be more frugal with their healing because that’s all the d6’s are used for.
@@jwall1646 Exactly. And like they said in the clerics part 1 video, the perfect/ideal party doesn't exist. So does it actually matter if a spell exists like Tiny Hut that can do the same/similar thing as the Dreams feature? No, because there might not be someone in the party who can cast Tiny Hut. Me personally, I play a lot of clerics, and while I've trained my parties to know that I'm not a healbot, it would still be great to have healing abilities that spare my spell slots!
true but a cleric is a more dedicated healer and a druid isn't.
Dwayne Bertrand but it’s really not. Just take a look at the forge, war, or order cleric. Just because they get a lot of healing spells doesn’t at all make them a more dedicated healer.
Circle of Spores makes for a great tank, treating it as just a necromancer is a mistake.
The base class itself has a great selection of Crowd Control spells, decent HP and access to shields, meaning you can easily force people to stay near you and survive doing so. As long as they stay close to you they will continue to take damage and activating your Symbiotic Entity not only gives you a ton of health but you're now also doing a decent amount more damage per round(at least in early-game). At 6th level you can now raise meatshields that will not only disperse incoming damage away from your party, you can also control so much more of the battlefield through body-blocking. When you can send the spores away you have a great way of forcing concentration saves on enemy spellcasters AND your two main features aren't fighting over a reaction anymore as you can just send them to the space next to you where your enemy is with a bonus action and they're automatically active for a minute. With the capstone you are immune to like half of all CC and ALL CRITICAL HITS, most tanks would KILL for that. At 20th level you literally have infinite HP unless your opponent can do more than 80 damage to you per round every round without crits.
It's a good tank that just keeps getting better at what it does as it levels.
This is an excellent perspective.
I'm new to dnd in general and even newer to druids, so I appreciate the insight for the subclass that I am most likely choosing.
@@ari4918 If you fight an umber hulk or another creature with a chitinous exoskeleton, ask your DM if you can use that exoskeleton to have half plate or a breastplate made out of it. It's a nice way to circumvent the "no metal" restriction for armor and getting a better AC. My spores druid wears umber hulk breasplate and a wooden shield and she's as tanky as the eldritch knight in the party
I have played in a campaign when another character tried to play a spore druid like this. It sucked. The extra hitpoints it gains are pitiful, terrible armour class, extra damage on hit but only one attack per round, reaction is gone so no opportunity attacks, long set up needed... We managed to make it work a bit better by my character using a huge amount of his spells to keep the druid alive (mage armour, armour of faith, warding bond), and some homebrewing to make it so that the spores are a bonus action to bring up and last for a minute regardless of the hit points being used up. We also changed the spell list to include spirit shroud. Only then after all that did it feel like it vaguely functioned. Like they said in the video, fantastic concept, terrible execution. Needs more hit points (and/or better AC), more damage (or more attacks) and less action economy juggling.
@@willdouglas1617 I played one like the way i described myself and it was pretty fun c: Though admittedly it wasn't for a terribly long campaign.
I read that as "DUDE" tier ranking ...
Same here
I would love to see a video of Kelly and Monty arguing which one of them is better and why the other one shouldn't be S tier.
Results of the community rating: both are S tier
These guys are a great example of how to have conversations with people about topics which you both are passionate about, disagree on your perception, hear each other's points, consider each other's points, and come to a mutual agreement.
It's actually very satisfying to watch your interactions in this age where most of the internet is a zoo full of angry monkeys throwing poo in each other's faces.
I'm worried about the dudes... They haven't mentioned pole arm master lately.
Or variant human.
Or crossbow expert
Haha
oh no... not the polearm master variant human spores druid casting shillelagh on their quarterstaff and dealing extra poison (necrotic according to Tasha's?) and having the hand crossbow ready for anybody who retreats!!!
Moon Druid chimp with polearm. Hanging from a branch, bo-whacking you with feet while hand crossbow and tail whip are possible.
I'm playing a Circle of Spores Druid right now. He's a pretty fun guy
I fully approve of this joke
This joke is better than the subclass imo
...
I too am playing spores
I have no shame in my Dragonborn circle of spores druid
@@jwall1646 I don't think it's that bad, sure it's not as strong as a Moon Druid in the early game, but it's still packing quite a punch, whilst not removing spellcasting for the Druid, even in 'Wildshape'.
The only criticism I have about the rankings here is that they are looking at how the subclasses augment the druids key abilities but the only truly unique thing all druids get is wildshape. That immediately makes every subclass other than circle of the moon incredibly weak by their standards. But IDK... I get it I guess
I agree! So much so that I (for my own misery) often play non wild shape using druids. If i do its for utility, and travel never in combat. The Druid becomes very one dimensional if I only focused on wild shape optimization.
If you ignore the druid key abilities, you're just a weaker wizard. But Spores creates a spellcasting wild shape and Shepherd augments the key druid ability of summoning.
I feel like every other subclass should of got access to 1 or 2 higher level wildshape creatures, where the Moon druids get access to all of that variety and elementals.
@@Samlli That would've been a solution. I think the problem is that the druid class chart is all about wild shape. Aside from subclass abilities, ASI and spells, when druids level up they get Wild Shape, Wild Shape Improvement (swimming), Wild Shape Improvement (flying), slower aging, Wild Shape Improvement (spells) and Wild Shape Improvement (unlimited transformations). How was it not obvious that it's unbalanced to revolve a full class around one ability and only make it actually usable for one subclass???
I mean they're a full caster... That's quite a bit of a rest of the class
Backed the grim hollow kickstarter yesterday can't wait
Same
I've said this before but glad to see you guys doing the videos together again. Just feels right.
if you combine circle of spores with the 4th level spell guardian of nature, you can create a 15ft. radius of difficult terrain around you that makes it harder for enemies to escape your spores, and you have advantade on dex and wisdom attack and damage rolls. so if you use a scimitar/shillalagh staff you hit more and harder and then can raise them to fight for you. combine this with a cloudkill around you since you are immune to poison at higher levels and zombies always are and you are suddenly a walking war crime.
both guardian of nature and cloudkill are concentration spells so how would you hold them both at once
Druid's a strong class naturally it's just circle of the moon is so absolutely ridiculous it makes other subclasses look bad
I think the only reason we all think this is op is once they hit 20th level. At that point, yes the subclass is busted. But rarely do any of the campaigns have players reaching this level, unless you're doing like a One-Shot or by God a free-for-all. So once it's 20th level then yes circle the Moon is powerful, but if not honestly shepard and star is really strong and in my opinion are also good contenders. I do feel that the druid needs more love, being that it doesn't have as many subclasses as every other class
@@IMXLegedaryBard Highly disagree. Yes, the 20th level druid endlessly turning into elementals while casting uncounterable spells is probably the most common thing people will point to when calling it OP, but even early on it's ridiculously strong. Gaining access to CR 1 beasts at level 2 is incredibly powerful when you realize that most of them have way more hp than even dedicated martial classes will have on top of hitting harder than them. And to cap it off you retain your mental stats, so you're better than the martial classes will probably ever be at resisting spells, too. There are CR 2 and 3 beasts that have multiattack to keep pace for levels 6-9, and at level 10 they get elementals. The Moon Druid breaks encounters because they force the DM to have to chew through several characters' worth of additional health and damage before they can even touch the druid. Making encounters that can do that without just TPK'ing the rest of the group is extremely difficult.
@@Dramatic_Gaming I see your point, and it's a valid point. But I suppose it all at the end is determined by the player and the game itself. You can have this class which you believe is op but being played by a character who doesn't utilize the mechanics that well. That along with reasonable strong enemies can present a challenge.
Druids are perhaps the most versatile class in the game. You can be a healer as a dreams druid, a melee powerhouse as a sports Druid, a long-range blaster as a land Druid, a highly effective tank as a moon Druid, or a battlefield control/buffer/summoner as a shepherd Druid. I’m playing a Dreams Druid in my current campaign and loving every minute of it.
"Sports Druid" lmao
@@GrassPokeKing Now I need to make a Sports Druid sub class.
I did stars and it turned me into a straight-up battle mage...
@@eboi255 same! i love my stars druid thw damage is crazy
wildfire druid is very good all around, good offensive magic always at hand, basic healing magic always available, both augmented by a summoned spirit that that also does it's own damage, effectively being in 2 places at once thanks to the spirit, spare healing off of killing things, and a spare life with the revival feature
I m french... I learned english to follow all your videos, and you help me get better in english :) One of the best RUclips channel ever U2 are ultimate professionnals; so cool to follow.
I never played D&D; now i want to.
Trop cool mec! Ton anglais c’est parfait. Tristement mon niveau du français n’est pas comparable hahahah.
Tu va apprendre l'anglais canadien... mais bon, il y a pire!
Just don’t copy how Monty say ‘iron’...
The Spore Druid gives you great material to roleplay an interesting and weird character. Mechanically, I lean B+. Fun factor: S+
You get a really nice attack cantrip in Chill Touch.
The extra spells you get from the subclass are fairly strong.
Their action economy is extremely efficient and can allow you to use every part of your turn. For example, you can cast Shillelagh as a bonus action, use your action to turn on your Symbiotic Entity, then move to an enemy spend your reaction and hopefully get the Halo of Spores damage (buffed from Symbiotic Entity). The next turn you could cast a Healing Word as a bonus action, attack and deal an extra 1d6 poison, then try for Halo of Spores damage.
The Temporary Hit points give you a comparable life buff like Wild Shape would, but in general, I would say you are more useful in your original form.
Animating weak zombies with Fungal Infestation is surprisingly strong. You strike down an enemy, then spend your reaction to animate them instead of going for Halo of Spores damage. You can use them to give you cover, make an attack, and/or soak up damage. With some smart maneuvering, you can have your zombie make an opportunity attack if an enemy decides to ignore it.
Hurling your spores is cool, but not that great. Range is short. Area is small. Yes, it can get a couple enemies, but it can hurt your allies as well. You can spend a bonus action on this ability, so it might come in useful and not really eat into your actions for the turn.
Fungal Body is awesome.
Depending on stats, taking a few levels of monk add a lot of damage per round due to the 1d6 poison ability.
The amount of flexibility in their abilities allow for creative and interesting choices which makes this subclass strong. If the Halo of Spores was a 1/2 damage, I think I would give this class an A or S.
Thank you😤🙏
Our Druid player is doing circle of spores and is playing basically as a drug I mean Alchemist supplier. DM is allowing him to grow weed and mushrooms to use in campaign.
The 2 biggest problems with circle of spores (in my experience playing from lvl 1-7) is symbiotic entity not giving that much temp hp and doubling up on reaction features. I played in a party of 3 with 2 other melee characters, and I still was burning through symbiotic entity's temp hp in 2 turns usually. Quite often it'd go use symbiotic entity, next turn get to attack (with PAM too to try to make up for the lack of extra attack), and then turn 3 my temp HP would be gone so I'd use symbiotic entity again. The other problem is, like Kelly said, having 2 reaction based features (3 in my case with PAM) can result in you using it for damage, but then the enemy dies and you can't use fungal infestation, which felt really bad when it happened to me. By far the most difficult to play subclass I've played.
Circle of Dreams is a solid A tier for me. It's a fantastic healer and general support class. I've also played in many games that don't allow Tiny Hut for increased difficulty and drama. You guys seem to prioritize damage dealing over everything but the majority of games I've played are only 25% combat.
Spores is like an S flavor wise, but like a C mechanically
Hardly. Symbiotic Entity gives you a big chunk of temporary HP, not unlike what another druid would get from turning into an animal. Except the Spore Druid can keep casting instead of running around as a wolf or whatever low CR thing a non-Moon druid turns into. Circle of the Land gives you...arcane recovery. Yet Spores gets a C and Land gets a B. I think there's an overly large emphasis in this analysis of Spore Druid getting into melee combat, which they will never do as well as Circle of the Moon. In addition, Circle of Spores gets the ability to throw their spores around and irritate casters and ranged, or just do a bunch of small damage hits in the melee chokepoint. Not S tier by any means, not with Moon existing, but easily B if not A.
Also, you can spend a few days to build up a zombie force...and then summon animals on top of it. That's a nice horde.
@@davidlechtenberg994 Spores is amazing. I'm playing one in Dungeon of the Mad Mage and it's very strong. The large pool of temp hp twice per day that you can take advantage of while controlling the battlefield is outstanding.
@@Corvus31 You mean twice per short rest! Wild Shape recharges on a short or long rest. I can imagine choosing to play Shepherd or Dreams instead of Spores, if I wanted that particular flavor, but I don't think I'd ever play Land over Spores. It's just like asking if I want to play my druid using a d10 instead of a d20.
Circle of Spores is easily my favorite option.
We have a spore druid in our party hes badass
I bought the Grim Hollow Campaign guide and it's awesome! So when i saw there's a player's guide kickstarter, and that the Dungeon Dudes are listed as part of the design team, it really was an absolute no brainer! Insta-backed!
Looking forward to it!
fyi for any viewers not in the know, a gish is a character that is skilled in both physical combat and the use of magic. had to look it up myself, so now hopefully you don't need to
I think the healing not being a spell for dreams druid is something not to go underestimated. Like you can cast a whole spell and a spell that works like healing word but stronger
"Bear in mind" Good one Monty
Monty littered a bunch of bear puns in this one. xD I could hardly bear to here so many of them!
I once had a player playing a Shepherd Druid. The party was in the tunnels of a pair of purple worms. At one point, he summoned 24 badgers. Not many of them hit, but the damage was consistent enough that the worms spent a lot of their actions just taking them out while the party members took free potshots at them. Yeah, I'll agree that Shepherd Druids are really strong.
Playing my first ever druid and I'm loving it. Went Dreams because I didn't have time to read through, was late, and picked it based on what it was called. Not disappointed, I focus on healing and bashing smaller mooks with my shilleagh.
Shillelagh is dope. Makes your wep magical and you get to use wisdom it with the modifier not to mention changes your damage dice to a d8. Dump that strength stat about to flex with some hardwood.
@@BLOODKINGbro Phrasing.
@@Pyrela Got a dirty mind there. The spell only works on wood. You can grab any random 2x4 improvised weapon (like a floor board from the tavern) and turn it into a magical weapon.
@@BLOODKINGbro my dreams druid used to lay about her with a shille-ladle :)
I spend so much time going back and rewatching your old videos, so when a new one gets released I get super excited. Keep up the great work guys!
One of my ranger players was experimenting with nature spells more and decided to multiclass into druid. His character is getting more and more interesting as he found out about wildshaping and that his father was a druid too, before he was taken away. But is he still alive?
Spore Druid with Ranger could be pretty nasty. You get the extra HP from the Halo of Spores, and that extra 1d6 poison damage is pretty underwhelming usually, but gets better with Extra Attack.
i have a spore druid called Fire, a firbolg, and i have played him for about a year and a half, currently lvl 9. To be honest, i like the flavor of the circle a lot, it makes it feel very diferent, unique... but yea, it falls down on efectiveness.
The ability at 6th lvl of raising zombies has NEVER come up, not even once, the creature has to be a humanoid or beast, die in 5ft of you, AND you use your reaction... you already use your reaction every time you can for the spore damage.
The spore damage is necrotic, and the extra damage on melee is poison, both have encounter a loooot of mosnters with resistance or inmunity, so its hard to go full potential.
All of those anecdotes are that, my experience, andit could go very diferent for other person, but yea, not very powerfull. i still LOVE my druid, and i wouldnt change it if i have the chance... and very hyped for that lvl 14th bonus.
I feel happy that Circle of Dreams is solidly in the "decently good" bracket, but my Druid character didn't survive long enough to see this.
Just played in a road trip style campaign, our Dreams druid saved us from ambushing and traveling issues many times. I personally agree with the initial A.
@@LupineShadowOmega
Mine didn't have such an interesting life. I feel like the backstory I wrote was pretty good, but before the campaign started I abandoned this idea in favour of a drow Devotion paladin/Mastermind rogue/Enchanter wizard multiclass (came up with it for the purpose of roleplaying and character development, so still not sure how this is going to play out mechanically).
@@alien_nation3617 for that to work goodz tou would have to have high dexterity(rogue), charisma(paladin spellcasting), intelligence(wizard spellcasting), constitution(hp) and possibly strength for paladin weapon
@@rubenklatten4011
For a Dex-based paladin, Dex, Cha and Con should be pretty high from the start; for Int, I got a decently good roll and wizardry is supposed to be the smallest plot point of the three.
I think the problem is not in the stats, but in that the class abilities may not work together well enough.
@@alien_nation3617 yea thats true, i hope it works out for you!
From watching these ranking videos, I've noticed that Monty tends to be a bit more critical when ranking subclasses than Kelly. Not saying that's a bad thing, just something I've noticed.
Monty strikes me as a “utility > fun” type of player, and Kelly strikes me as “fun > utility” type of player.
This isn’t meant as an insult either. It’s actually neat that they compliment each other that way
Edit: also, to be fair to the Dudes, a lot of the Druid subclasses are lackluster compared to other classes like Fighter or Cleric
Yeah Kelly tends to go by “How fucking metal is this subclass”
It also might have something to do with the fact that of the two Monty is clearly the one better suited for being a DM, which might have something to do with his view.
And to prove my point even more, I kept forgetting Kelly's name and wanting to call him Sebastian.
AlDoesAGood I guess I'm a "utility = fun" guy.
Just as a note for circle of Dreams - the Dream spell is insane and you can get so much use out of it - both roleplaying and offensively. The specific that the druid needs to be the messinger is also pretty cute.
I have a spore Druid in my campaign that tanks pretty well and handles multiple creatures at once pretty well. I think it just contradicts some of the other Druid features so it’s hard to picture at times without witnessing it first hand.
I think Circle of Shepherd is underrated - not in terms of summoning, at which it's indisputably the best at - but also being the best *healer* in the game thanks to its unicorn spirit. I think this is the single subclass that makes a focus on healing (of course, maintaining concentration on a summoning spell) viable in 5e and it is *much* better at it than the Circle of Life. The amount of healing that unicorn spirit provides is absolutely ridiculous. At around 5th or 6th level, it turns every Healing Word into a slightly worse Mass Healing Word. At 9th level, it just turns every Healing Word into a Mass Healing Word that always rolls the maximum amount. And it's not limited to an amount of creatures, no, it's all creatures of your choice within the unicorn spirit's range, which is HUGE btw. 30ft radius is absolutely massive. Also, if that isn't enough, at higher levels (like 15+) your Healing Words will be very comparable to Mass Cure Wounds.
Shepherd should be S tier. Druids are casters and since Moon Druids can't cast without dropping Wild Shape until very high levels, they miss out on a LOT of casting utility in favor of Wild Shape conservation. Conversely, Shepherd's Wild Shape is almost completely utility so they have complete freedom to use their Wild Shape whenever without worrying about wasting it.
Unless there is no other front liner, the moon druid should never rush in round 1. With so many of the druid's best spells requiring concentration, there is no reason to not spellcast first before charging the frontine.
A moon druid isn’t a caster. It’s a barbarian with spells
I use my moon druid in two ways. My party consists of a ua beast conclave druid, a dragon ancestor sorcerer, 4 Elements monk, and me. Most times my monk needs help with tanking, and that is what I do. If we need more directed spell casting, I cast spells. Considering I'm also the only who can actually heal consistently, and bam, I play two different ways as needed. I will say though, summoning 8 firehawks and then also turning into a fire hawk is freaking hilarious.
I haven't watched this video yet - but I like it
I mean it's about druids so how could you not
Influence that algorithm!
Ayy, it's the nerd that doesn't have nerdy friends to talk about nerdy things, so He makes video for it instead.
@@ridwana4037 eeyyyy my channel is nowhere near big enough for people to start recognizing me hahaha
@@HiddenNerdySide Probably because your content was mostly directed for DM, which is not what most people oriented to. But don't worry, you'll get there someday. I hope.
Circle of Spores is SOOO good. I play one and I think you are really underselling how good the circle of spores druid is and how much damage it can do. I think you aren't considering that when you are in your wild shape you can't cast spells. Unlike when you are in your fungal form. which can really ramp up your damage and utility.
“Fungal form”..... are you another NADDPod fan?? If so, Melora bless you. Moonshine is a great example of how effectively Circle of Spores can be played, and it made me a little sad to see them rank it so low. That said, I can only imagine what would’ve happened with a circle of the moon Druid in the hands of Emily Axford.
Best Druid spells are concentration ones, and you can cast them before you ender Wildshape.
I personally like that you don´t have to roll concentration checks while your fungal form is still up, thats kind of HUGE.
@@antongrigoryev6381 except most wild shapes have crappy AC.
I’ve been considering making my next character a spores Druid bc I love the flavor, but the ranking scared me a bit. However, a lot of comments seem to be agreeing with you that it’s a very underestimated subclass so I’m thinking imma still go for it.
I think the dream druid is stronger than you give it credit for. The ability to not just heal a little bit but to drop your druid level in d6's for healing plus a temp hit point. Plus it's got a huge range and as a bonus action. That's a ton of healing doing more than a healing word would, and not costing any spell slot. Plus the ability to drop a ton of healing at once is even better. At the point where a cleric would be dropping a 6th level spell as their most powerful ability for 70 points of healing you can heal an average of 58.5 points at 13th level, which is pretty close, plus the druid keeps their spell slots, and can do it at twice the range as a bonus.
Also I love how united everyone is that Moon druids are OP lol. It does take a dip after the 10th level ability but I'd argue it goes right back up in power with 18th level casting spells while wildshaped, and even more at 20th level with the unlimited wildshapes and they basically become immortal where they can as a bonus action basically heal for 120 hp per turn going into an elemental.
Honestly it is really good. But it's definitely a B+ imo. The thing that makes me feel bad about it is the 6th level spell, it is super lack luster in the face of a party who has the ability to make the hut. It's a B most of the time but in the right party it is DEFINITELY an A. I feel like it's a jack of all trades, fairly supporty but the druid's area of effect spells.... my god. I really chose it for flavor which for me to is S tier, but was pleasantly surprised all around.
@@AdamDModeen yeah it definitely compared to tiny hut it is a lot worse. But the flavor on it is awesome and the burst of healing is always nice. The teleportation circle would also be nice if it was more than just the last place you rested for some flexibility too.
I have an extremely unpopular opinion in that I find Moon Druid extremely boring. Again, it's my opinion so don't come charging at me with swords and spears. Sure, you can get a lot of HP and it amplifies a core druid ability, but after playing it for over a year, I hoped and hoped it would become more interesting to play and it never did. It dominates at low levels with some of the wildshapes, but as you get higher it sort of falls away. I think Spores Druid has to be one of my favorites for flavor reasons but I really find Circle of Stars to be incredibly useful and fun both in flavor and mechanics. Again, it's only an opinion but I wouldn't play moon druid again.
As a DM, I would allow my players to wildshape into monstrosities and larger beasts like T-Rexes much earlier. Homebrewing New beasts also might help
One important thing about the Shepard Druid that shouldn't be underestimated: Every hit on a summoned creature is a hit no one in the party had to take, unless it's an AOE.
That's worth the price of admission right there. And when that druid goes unconscious they get another full meat shield too!
Every hit to the Druid is a hit to all the summons too as summoning spells are concentration
Oh my goodness, thank you for this discussion and ranking. I've been wracking my brain to decide which circle to go with.
Hey dudes, really liking these class tier ranking videos. Please keep it up!
New summoning spells in Tasha’s (from UA) may push up Shepherd to S tier.
The reason Circle of Spores ranks a B-tier for me: if you have a DM willing to drop some powerful beasts for your party to slay, you can raise Zombie Dinosaurs. Though admittedly, that still keeps it about a B- because the abilities complete with each other.
I'm pretty sure their is a size restriction on Fungal Infestation. If memory serves its medium or smaller humanoid or beast so maybe a medium dinosaur but definitely not like zombie t rex.
@@williamfitch1546 Sadly, you are correct. Still there are some fun beasts, and even dinosaurs, that are available.
Circle of spores feel a bit like a multi class thing, combine it with something like 5 Bear barbarian, rest in spore druid, then you get an extra attack that adds that 1d6 spore damage and your temp hp is doubled, something I always wanted to try. :)
Circle of Spores relies on the player taking the Golgari Agent background, in my opinion. It requires just a couple of the expanded spells, which the background grants, to really fill the gaps and get that, necromancer/last of us feel, while not feeling like compromising somewhere else. The big benefit this class has, is using wild shape and still being able to sling more spells. One example is positioning at midrange in a fight, getting value from the proximity based features, and spamming Ray of Sickness, while commanding an mob raised by Animate Dead, and bolstered by the Fungal Infestation feature.
25:25 Yeah Monty’s face matched mine when Kelly said that about Moon Druid
Shepard's healing is awesome it is easily my favorite healing class.
The unicorn totem turns all your healing words into super mass healing words.
Those level one slots are always powerful if you got your totem up.
Moon Druid is crazy strong at later levels, but most of the time camps don't go on that long. In a playthrough of Storm King's Thunder we had two druids, myself and another player. I was a Shepherd druid and the other was Moon, and honestly I was way more powerful. Honestly the other guy got more use out of Spike Growth than any other of his class features, which became his "thing". My "thing" was throwing hordes of creatures at enemies from a safe distance, all while healing/picking up our frontliners every turn with my spirit totem. Most fun character I've ever played.
I suspected that the Moon Druid was going to be the noose around all the other subclasses’ throats. Yes, it is powerful. But it doesn’t so much completely change how the Druid plays as it shifts the character’s focus away from being a Druid until very high levels. It was an unfortunate throwback to the 3rd Edition Druid and the CoDzilla of old.
MrFinalMax everyone nerfs moon circle as written because it's utterly game breaking. a level 2 gets 80-100hp for free every short rest, in addition to their druid hp and hit dice.
you are literally unkillable the entire campaign.
As powerful as it is, I only pick it just so I can turn into a giant toad (maybe frog, the higher vs one) so I can literally eat my enemies.
I like your statement about it shifting focus away from being a druid. Druids were always known for their amazing spell casting ability. Turning into animals was just a side thing. The moon druid takes people's minds away from what being a druid was actually all about. That's why i don't play them. If someone is just playing a moon druid cause of the HP and whatnot, that's not playing a character, that's just being a min/maxer in my opinion. It's a role playing game, not a DPS shootout.
@@DDGPro We all come to the table for our own reasons. Some people are there because, yeah, they want to kick @$$ and take names. There's nothing wrong with that, it's a choice. I find most players just don't want to feel useless at the table. Playing a Druid tank is just playing a more versatile tank than a fighter or paladin.
There is one thing I don't see anyone point out, Circle of Spores Zombie has 1 HP when it rises, as per ability description and I don't think there is a way to heal them, as Cure Wounds or Healing Words specifically state that they have no effect on the undead. So yeah, you get a meat shield that is going to break after one hit from the weakest enemy, sure it will take damage for you, but even Burning Hands are their kryptonite.
I think druids have the most pun potential overall, especially with the subclasses.
My last campaign I played a Circle of Stars Druid (UA) - I main Balance Druid in World of Warcraft and love starry, celestial, ethereal themes and aesthetics. So having a beautiful glowing blue moon elf who could shoot off radiant celestial magic was a theme I was really excited to play.
The Star Map spells of Augery for cosmic omens and Guiding Bolt were so fun to use and roleplay with, and made for some fun solutions when the player party started to argue over decisions and I could whip up a ceremony spell to help us figure it out.
Plus the Starry Form was so fun to switch out depending on whether I wanted to deal more damage with the Archer form, or focus on healing my team with Chalice.
Defo my personal fave subclass!
Really curious how they feel about some of the new test content such as Circle of Stars and Wildfire. Really trying to convince myself to do one of those instead of moon just to try something different but my god circle of the moon is just so op and tempting
Circle of Stars in particular can be just as good. It fills more of a swiss army knife than a hammer like the Moon. It can both be an excellent blaster with free guiding bolt and archer, master healer with chalice, or if needed Dragon just sorta... Gets reliable talent for Int and Wis checks and also Con saves for concentration? Later levels you get can either help your allies (and yourself) with an extra d6 to your rolls or conversely inflict a d6 penalty on your enemies' rolls depending on if you got Weal or Woe. At level 10 you can switch your constellation on the fly while also having the damage and healing of Archer and Chalice go up to 2d8 and the Dragon just gets a fly speed. And at 14 to top it off you get to be a better tank with resistance to bludgeoning piercing and slashing damage. Even then you shouldn't be a frontliner sit back and just pummel them to death with 4d6+2d8 Radiant damage every round for 6 rounds and then just start fueling Guiding Bolt with Spell Slots allowing you to upcast if you for some reason haven't turned the enemy into a smoldering pile of ash. Alternatively if you say have a Moon Druid in your party you can make your DM target you instead because even though your friend isn't level 20 you're making them and the fighter functionally immortal. Or pull off some big concentration spell and then just don't drop it because you have reliable talent for it for some reason while also 30' in the air.
Yeah at 3rd lvl I just put chalice on and did guiding bolt. With the few utility of ice knife, dagger+heatmetal, moonbeam and healing word.
I'm not gonna lie I definitely undersold Dragon because Reliable Talent on Concentratrion and then later a 30ft fly speed on top of that is huge for a class like Druid that has one of the most concentration heavy spell lists in the game
I am especially happy this came out because I'm about to play a Circle of the Shepherd Druid this Thursday! :D
Love you dudes! Your content is always great and engaging.
Druid at 20th level will have unlimited use of their wildshape. This means that a moon druid at 20th level can be elemental for an infinite times, which leads to the fact that an elemental druid needs to take more than 90 - 127 hp of damage in one round or else the moon druids just basically heals itself back to full health by wild-shaping again. Conclusion: Moon Druids can theoretically solo a Pit Fiend, Ancient Dragon, or probably a Tarrasque.
That's 20th level characters for you.
@@nathankurtz8045 Ok then. A lvl 20 Moon Druid can unless extremely bad luck solo any other class at lvl 20. Because they can also cast spells in Wild Shape.
@@redholm And a wizard at that level with Feeblemind can stop them from casting spells entirely, as wild shape doesn't change their mental ability scores, not to mention having Clones scattered across countless divination-warded demiplanes making him essentially immortal. Also, a raging elven 15th level Zealot Barbarian can only be killed by things that cause instant death.
The game isn't balanced for PVP.
@@nathankurtz8045 I mean. A Druid could cast Feeblemind on the Wizard and the same result happens. Going to spells like that to stop Balm is a bit silly :P Also Druids have prof in Int saving throws so it's harder to hit them with that. Same for Wizards. And you only really get 1 cast of that. Fail and you just don't get a second shot. Unless if you burn a wish on it ofc.
@@redholm So one way the battle could goes is they both try to cast Feeblemind on each other. If it doesn't stick to the druid or it does stick the the wizard, then the druid kills the wizard, who moves to a clone and returns to the battle. When it does stick to the druid, then he's at the mercy of the Wizard's spells and can't teleport or return to life by his own power.
Or the wizard could try to use Symbol to land the incapacitated condition on the druid, which will make him unable to wild shape or cast spells and suddenly very vulnerable to death by damage.
At this point you guys are like the "Developer's Crew" for D&D. At least that's how it feels for me. :D You come straightforward and dive deep into each class explaining and providing insight on how the class could be used on it's own, or may be mixed up. And you usually offer whatever ways you know to improve on the natural strenghts of a class. Awesome content I'd say! : )
I really like the circle of dreams, it’s my personal favorite even though I know moon is flat out better, I was a little sad to see kelly back down on A ranking for it because I found the balm of the Sumer court to be a good bit stronger than they said (they may have considered this cause they’re smart guys just didn’t say it) the balm is used as a bonus action from range without being a spell or using a slot which means you can get a party member off of deaths door without using your spell for the turn or your action to use it on direct healing, or even if you do use your action for healing you can give a ton more hit points on the same turn as opposed to being spread out by multiple spells. I personally found it to be increasingly useful while playing adventures league to dump 5d6+5 healing into an ally and still be able to cast call lighting, or anything else for that matter, in the same turn at level 10
Of course I don’t think it’s an s tier and I’ve never played a Shepard Druid so I can’t compare on that basis but I would have given the dream circle a low to solid A instead of B and that’s my case for it
(Excuse my english im not native)
im playing a spore druid right now, lvl 7 lizardfolk for like half a year. I get this subclass is not op, Halo of spore using your reaction is massive nerf to the warmagic feat, but at the same time you are super super tanky, and i think not everything in this game is about damage or crazy utility. I like my spore druid because he is a chonky CC machine and a great battlefild controller, a zombi in a reaction is an attack you dont take and o lord they keeeep going.
Raise dead its also really good on druid, specially if you go for skellys with bows, lvl 5 with 4 skelletons protected by your mighty CC is a force to reckon with, specially if you cast another summon spell like conjure animals.
I think most people dont look a the team composition or spell combo potential just care about what the fetures do. "HURRR durrr posion damage is shit", and i agree is shit! but with my trusty staff of the woodlands and shillelagh by my side ive become my DMs nightmare.
And here me out, what would you rather be? the undead emperor of the fungus kingdom or just another generic final furry fantasy guy.
Bro... gotta love that character , it seems a lot of fun
Amen. I seriously think they should have simply not including Moon, stating reasons why it is so good but it also warps the scale for everything else.
@@lordhawkeye It'll matter when Wildfire is released and added to the list in a couple of months though because it can actually compete for the top slot.
I played a circle of the spores druid for a good while. It is a B-tier because spore druid really is the "I am going to be the second best at everything druid". When playing as this druid I could very easily stand next to our fighter and be a replacement for my barbarian who died. Then when ever I was feeling a little spicy I could also lean over and cast tidal wave to murder a group of foes or slap the fighter in the head with some healing when he got low. My druid was never going to be as a good of a tank as the barbarian, or as good as a dps as the fighter, or as good of a healer as our bard, but they sure could be 2nd best at all of those things. Spore druid really enabled my druid to be that front line melee class while also being able to cast spells (Compare this to moon where you are a god tier front line melee class, but you are casting 0 spells, seriously I just want the moon druid in my game to cast one spell, please someone help).
Fungal infestation and Halo of spores didn't really clash that much with each other, since when I saw a chance to get a zombie minion I could work with my party to ensure I was in range and had my reaction. Or I could step in and get the kill on that mob during my turn, ensuring that I had my reaction.
While I would really like spore druid to be an A tier, the class just doesn't mesh well enough together to be A tier and I found that Fungal Infestation really failed to come up during the campaign. Along side that there was some jank that my character had to deal with when trying to juggle wearing a shield+weapon+focus. And along side that Symbiotic Entity is just restrictive enough that it can't combo with flaming blade, druid's really good melee weapon spell.
Also, while not as good as moon druid, spore druid does join moon druid in being unkillable at level 20. Endless wild shapes means spore druid could sit there with 80 temp HP every round if they wanted too, while they ether used their 2d10 halo of spores to kill things or did it themselves.
Kelly said it best: "The worst part about the Moon Druid is how bad it make the rest of the druid subclasses look." I'd even take it a step further and say that it's worse than that because Moon Druid makes other classes look bad. I currently am running a game with a moon druid, an Evo wizard, and a Spirit guard barb, and sometimes I get the distinct feeling that the barbarian feels outclassed at their own specialty by the druid. Not to mention that when the druid isnt in wild shape, her casting still keeps up with the wizard in a lot of areas.
Like, in a more general sense, who cares if the barbarian only takes half damage from a lot of sources? The druid has more hit points, and the majority of them aren't permanent so they don't need to worry about them, but any damage the barbarian takes, while reduced, is still permanent. Not to mention that the druid doesnt need a class feature for extra attacks, they just pick an animal with multiattack and now they're swinging more times and for more damage than the fighter. Flight? there are animals that can, so the druid can without a spell slot (sure, they have to wait until 8th level, but still). Clocking in at 2 uses per short rest, wild shape would be fine on most druids, but on moon druids they get to use it practically every combat and its so good why wouldnt they?
Look, im basically venting about nothing here. My friend playing a moon druid doesnt abuse her power. She's so into the roleplay of the game, and generally new to it, that she doesn't even realise how powerful her character is. Really, the thing I worry about is that she'll play a different druid one day and find it disappointing.
I think there are subclasses that make other subclasses look unplayable in every class.
Battlemaster fighter.
Bear totem Barbarian.
Arcane Trickster Rogue (hah, nuts to assassins)
Eloquence Bards
Hexblade Warlocks
Forge Clerics
Divination Wizards
That's why I think more barbarians should take a 2 level dip in moon druid to get 34-37 extra hit points as a bonus action twice per day. With bear totem it's effectively 140 extra hp over the course of the adventuring day by 5th level, and _all_ barbarian class features apply in beast form. Rage, Reckless Attack, Unarmored Defense, everything. Depending on your DM you might even be able to use Relentless Rage and half-orc Relentless Endurance to keep the beast form from taking lethal damage and stop it from carrying over to you.
@@antonlowe5370 None of them come close to the difference between druids, but you make a point.
I'd argue that Chronurgy wizards occupy the wizard spot. Forge Clerics mostly get extra AC and very little else. There aren't any too strong clerics (but Light comes closest imo).
Does Moon druid get more uses of wild shape than other subclasses? I thought it was still just 2 per short rest
@@orionweiss5418 Nope. OP even said "Clocking in at 2 uses per short rest". But Moon Druid's other benefits, especially being able to activate it as a bonus action and then make a beast attack or two on the same turn, make it easier to use effectively in combat. And if you're in a group that has at least a short rest between each encounter the limit will rarely come into play.
This came at the perfect time! I’m just about to play a druid
Great video. Gonna be starting my first d&d game soon, with my best bud as dm and his gf as the only experienced player as a Barbarian, with my 2 other noob friends as a bard and Druid, and myself as a Paladin. Cannot wait for the Paladin subclass ranking! I’m leaning towards Oath of Vengeance at this time but who knows I might change my mind between now and third level.
As someone who plays a lot of paladin and routinely gets frustrated that the mechanically best picks(for a melee damage dealer one can make the argument for a more casty or supportive paladin.) are so restrictive in terms of aesthetic (conquest, vengeance and oathbreaker all just being different types of edgelord.) I kinda feel bad for the druid. Being so pigeonholed into the one clear best mechanical sub-class. Unless ofc you're going for flavor. Aw well there's always Tasha's
I just started watching fate zero and the rider from that series is alexander the great but the way he's portrayed not an edgelord but definitely a conqueror so conquest could be played as a more fun loving but noble character
I’m currently playing a melee Circle of Spores Druid in Curse of Strahd. The first three levels were rather hard, but I’ve started to ramp up with the extra HP. Add in a shield and Warcaster feat and you have a beefy guy with a relatively decent AC.
7:55 Anyone else hear “circle of S’mores” druid
That's going to be my next character
My wildshape is pear shaped now.
You have peaked my interest in what this s’mores druid can do!
@@DungeonDudes Would you like to learn s'more?
The Circle of S’mores druids are the keepers of the campsite. They seek to cook the most delicious golden brown marshmellows and serve it piping hot to their fellow adventurers along with melty chocolate and crispy graham crackers.
These druids find pleasure living amongst the wild and enjoying the simpler things in life.
Keeper of the Camp
When you take this subclass at 2nd level, you learn how to wield flames on which you cook your delicious treats.
You learn the cantrip Create bonfire, it does not count as your known cantrips.
Gimme S’more
At 2nd level, you learn the ancient art of crafting sugary delights. After spending 10 minutes near a fire you can create a number of s’mores equal to your wisdom modifier. These S’mores can be self consumed or given to other creatures. A creature holding a S’more can take a bonus action to consume the S’more, granting 1d6 + your Wisdom modifier temporary hit points.
You can only create new s’mores after the previously created s’mores are consumed. And you can repeat this action a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus
This S’more die starts at 1d6 increases to 1d8 at level 5, 1d10 at level 9, and 1d12 at level 14
Cook til golden brown
Starting at 6th level, every time an enemy within 60 ft of you takes fire damage you can choose to deal an additional 1d10 additional fire damage.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your druid’s level times 2 (rounding down).
Gift of the Graham
Starting at level 10, Whenever you or a fellow adventurer makes a persuasion check you can use your reaction to offer a s’more to add your S’more die to the check, granted you currently have a s’more in your possession.
Stuck in a marsh
Starting at level 14, you can use your S’mores in the heat of battle to immobilize your enemies. Using your bonus action you can throw your s’more up to a range of 60 feet. Any creature in that space must make a strength saving throw against your spell save DC or be stuck to the ground and unable to take reactions until the end of your next turn. The creature has a speed of zero and is immobilized. The creature can repeat this strength save on its turn.
I had a Dragonborn Moon Druid I was supposed to start playing before the world shut down 😔
Been there, done that. Sad to say I don't recommend it. Tried to play off my character's rather massive strength to make him a tough guy even in his normal form, but had absolutely zero features to support it. Would have been happier with a dragonborn paladin of the ancients. If you really want to play a druid, I recommend the circle of land. It's effectively the nature wizard. But talk to your DM so you can pick a bonus spell list that'll be appropriate to your campaign. Shepherd can be good too, if your campaign isn't too urban and your DM doesn't try to sabotage your summons. But the one I really want to play is the Spiritlord from Xanathar's Lost Notes on Everything Else. They get a special facemask that gives them a growing number of extra cantrips, up to 12 cantrips by 14th level. Best cantrip caster I've ever seen.
"Moon druid has a weak capstone" - huh? Its capstone makes them practically immortal, not sure why that's bad...
The moon druid capstone is alter self at will, are you referring to the ability that makes Druids age 10x as slowly? Cause even that wouldn’t really make a difference in actual play
Lvl 20 become anyone. I am the social interaction
I say when you cast a conjure animals, woodland beings, etc., you choose the creatures you summon. You casted the spell, so you should pick what you want it to do. Yes, it says that the DM has the statistics, but the player should have them instead of the DM because the DM is already busy enough tracking everything else.
There's a good table for generating these at random on reddit, it feels a lot better
Moon Druid and Shepherd Druid are tied for number one. They are the druidiest druids and mechanically they double down on the druids combat strengths: tanking. The Moon Druid tanks via wild shape and the Shepherd Druid tanks via summoned minions. Druids are already the best tanks/summoners and these subclasses make them even better at what they do best.
I mean think about it: if a Moon and Shepherd Druid were 1v1; doesn’t matter if the Moon turns into an elemental or not, Shepherd is going to be able to upcast conjure whatever and wreck havoc. I mean the ability to summon a shit load of minions + unicorn totem + Druid spell casting means that you can keep healing your Summons; yourself and throw out blaster spells for high damage. They really underestimated the Shepherd in this one.
You guys are sleeping hard on Circle of Spores. I've played each of the subclasses, and the only better subclass, in my opinion, is Moon.
The temporary hit points that you get when using your alternate wild shape is huge. It makes you an incredibly sturdy battlefield controller.
The spores are basically free added damage, and the capstone is amazing and comes up all the time.
80% of the game you don't play with the capstone. Comparing wild shape to extra temp hp is laughable and extra damage is less than casting cantrips at their respective levels. It feels clunky and never helps
This class was a disapointment to me personally, because the abilities look so awesome on a first read, but once you actually get into a game, you notice how bad they all are. You get a damage aura on a Character that most likely doesnt wnat to be in melee anyway and its not potent enough to actually discurage enemies from stepping close, AND it costs your reacion to deal 1 dice of damage, no modifier. Even when you push it with you wild shape its just... underwhelming.
At level 6 you can raise Zombies, which sounds like one of the most awesome class feats ever until you realise… they have 1 HP. A run of the mill PHB CR 1/4 Zombie... with 1 HP. The second anyone decides to brush this guy aside, you have to be lucky on a con role or you zombie is gone. And you can only do this up to 5 times per LONG REST! So much wasted Potential here…
The Level 10 feature is ok, but I cant see why this wasnt part of the wild shape transformation from the beginning. Put this at level 2 as an additional effect and give this class another level 10, maybe the class can be salvaged, but as it is, at level 10... no…
Your level 14 capstone is super strong. immunity to crit and some of the most common stauts effects. Its clearly the best feature of the class, but it cant save the class.
@@feed-backl6876 I agree, but all the other subclasses are much worse than the moon druid. Spores get the same amount of extra spells and cantrips as the land druid, and a huge pile of temp hp, plus some damage and zombies on top of that!
I agree that it's clunky though, but I recommend the solution of one level Arcana Cleric for Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade (and three cantrips, Wis+3 prepared spells, Arcana prof...) or getting either of those cantrips for e.g. Magic Initiate feat.
I'd give it a B, it's more of a situational subclass. When I played it, there were two Bards, Wizard, Barbarian, and a Rogue. The subclass turns the druid into a tank.
@@nilsjonsson4446 I tried the same thing for a low level one-shot; a level in Arcana Cleric for Booming Blade. The save or suck was kind of annoying to have fail so frequently, but being low level and really only having the one fight, I might give it another chance, especially if there are any ninja tweaks when reprinted in Tasha's. Weaponizing a reaction should be the action economy wet dream, and yet we all boo and hiss at the potentially zero damage. On the topic of Tasha's, I've been considering a dip into Way of Mercy for flavor, or Path of the Beast if they maintain the Claws as an extra weapon attack to really make the frontline work.
Circle of Dreaming is definitely A or S rank. A solid heal as a bonus action that doesn’t burn a spell slot, is way stronger then it sounds. My current party has Dreams Druid as their healer and he heals and has full access to the Druid spell list cause he isn’t burning all his spell slots on healing.
In defense of Dreams, you can't cast spells whilst wild shaped, but you can use class features. If your party doesn't have a dedicated healer do you really want to drop one of your two wild shapes to heal or just use Balm?
And another thing I see which is niche. It does not say it needs any Verbal or Somatic. So if that is true when kidnapped or silenced you can still heal with your Balm without Meta Magic.
So experience with circle of spores was basically find a way to get extra attack, I went fighter (eldritch knight), then spore druid for the rest. Effectively a BlightKnight. This was very, very good fun and gave me a lot of options. But... It would have felt absolutely shocking as a pure caster to be honest
I've come up with similar builds, but in order to make this work, most of your levels are in the Martial class, with maybe only 2 levels or so in druid. This provides very little Temp HP, which means once you take any damage, your Symbiotic Entity has ended.
My way around this was to combine it with Echo Knight, so my melee attacks are made from a safe distance. However I had to remain within 30 feet of the echo, so while it was better, I was still very vulnerable to losing my best feature by a minor hit.
Hey guys like the video! Just as something that might make the videos a little better would be to put up the text from the books you're pulling info from and putting it up on screen over whomever isn't describing it. Just an idea to ponder. Keep up the good work! 👍🏽
I think you're grossly underestimating the spores druid in relation to the land druid. The spores druid gets an additional cantrip and expanded spell list just like the land druid. But it also gets much more usable features than the land druid. It is also the only druid that gets a useful way to weaponize their reaction. The only good feature land druid gets outside of their spell list is arcane recovery. Spore druids get halo of spores as small damage boost every turn, a lot of extra HP and immunity to several statusses and critical hits! It's not going to out-tank the moon druid, for sure. But I definitely think it's stronger than land and dreams druid. I'd rate it high B or low A (below shepherd).
However, I think dreams druid is simply overrated. The extra healing is okay, and the teleportation is useful. But your 6th level ability is a worse leomund's tiny hut, which any other caster can get as a ritual, and your 14th ability is just... very mediocre. You can do scrying with a druid anyway (and land druid even gives you that 5th level spell slot back on the short rest!). The other two spells are just highly situational. I'd go as far to say that dreams druid's 6th and 14th level features are too weak to even qualify as features. I think this belongs in C tier. I think it should've gotten an additional spell list, just like land and spores.
I think I can see your point, my one complaint about the Spores druid is that the damage is just slightly lower than I would like on their abilities. But, the extra spells do compete with the majority of the Land Druid.
I also... I love my Dream Druid to death. I haven't gotten to higher levels yet, but I clearly do see that the 6th level ability was designed for a style of campaign that rarely sees play. Other than that one misstep though, I think it is very solidly designed. Extra healing is amazing. Sure, Shepherd druid can out-heal me... once per short rest with the use of spell slots. The teleportation is quite nice, and they get some good spells at level 14. Could it be better? Yes, but I think it does a fine job.
I would argue 2 points, 1st off is that Halo of Spores isn’t a useful ability. It’s Save or Suck, with a Con Saving Throw, for relatively low damage. It’s a use of a reaction, but not a great one. It also competes with one of the other Circle of Spores Abilities. 2nd The extra HP requires your action to trigger, so unless you are Multiclassing in Sorc for Quicken spells, your first turn in combat is relatively wasted. Sure you can do it before Combat but it only lasts 10 minutes. Yes, you could give yourself the Temp HP out of combat as a boost, but that means you won’t get the extra benefit of double damage from Spores. And the only way you can do the Spores damage (or to raise an undead with your 6th lvl ability) is by being almost in Melee, Definitely within range of a reach weapon. This means your Temp HP and your concentration checks for spells will be tested significantly. So although an extra 20 Temp HP is awesome, making significantly more concentration checks and taking significantly more damage (even with a buffer) isn’t a great option for Druids.
What I will say this Druid excels at (that neither of them mentioned, nor do I think they factored this in) is that you may use both Undead AND Summoned Minions. This opens up a whole new game, especially if you use Ranged Skeletons while your Brown Bears or Wolves year at your enemies. Alternatively at higher levels, your Zombies can help block the enemies while your Satyr’s run around shooting with their Shortbows or your Hags can run up and attack. Once you have 7th level spells you can summon a Bheur Hag which can cast at will Hold Person, 3 a day Cone of Cold, etc. or a Korred which is a Small Fey that can Conjure an Elemental and Cast Otto’s Irresistible Dance. Etc.
Animate Dead along side the Conjuring spells is very potent.
I agree that halo of spores isn't an amazing ability, but you can use it every turn without any kind of restriction. And the only thing you have competing with it is your lv 6 zombie ability (which only takes a single reaction, then you can mentally command it for free!). And at lv 10 you can just opt to lose the melee restrictions on it and make it ranged for a bonus action. At which point your reaction is completely free for zombies. The only bad thing about the zombies is that they require certain types of creatures.
While I agree that the action activation on symbiotic entity can be restrictive, I'd argue that just the THP alone is worth it. Also note that you can get that THP twice per short rest. So it's not 20 Temp HP at lv 5, it's really 40 (in 2 bursts). If you're one of those parties who does have a long adventuring day with many short rests, that can be 80 or 120 THP. That's definitely not bad. You're not a moon druid, but that's why you're not S tier. .Although, as I said, it's very dependent on your style of campaign when it comes to rests.
And I definitely agree with you on animate dead. I didn't address it specifically indeed, but it's definitely the most potent spell on the spore druid list. I think the fact that they have a spell list like land druid already puts them miles beyond the dreams druid. But animate dead specifically is great.
Stefan de Jong Those are fair points. I’m still not sure it’s worth it even at range at 10th lvl.
I do agree that the more often you Short Rest/Expend your Wildshape after each combat, it gains a significant amount of effectiveness. But I feel that is somewhat campaign dependent, so we can only be sure you get it twice a day.
I will say one thing that the Dreams has that Monty didn’t mention, is non-spell based Healing. He said that they have Healing word, but that requires you to cast a Spell. This is a non-spell cast healing word which means your action can still be used for a spell. This is very potent compared to normal because it means you effectively get the Healing Word Spell significantly more and without expending a spell slot or having to limit your actions to a Cantrip.
The Circle of Spores is definitely above the Dream but I would still give both of them a B. I do not think Circle of Spores is an A unless you’re in the right campaign. In rare cases, where you take 2 SR’s a day and you get to choose the creatures you summon, it can be a S rank.
Couldn't you also wyldshape into something small, sneak into an enemy lair, and just slowly hurt them with spores until they run out of the room and into the waiting arms of your party?
Tulok: "A level 20 spore druid is one of the most powerful things I've ever built. It would be an absurdly dangerous boss for your party to face, summoning zombie minions to keep it safe while giving itself 80HP for free every round."
Dungeon Dudes: "That's a C then."
I keep reading these “Grim Hollow” comments and thinking for a split second that they’re referring to Grimm from Hollow Knight.
This video's talk about Circle of Spores has me wondering if there's a great opportunity to mix it with a Monk. Flavor wise there should be a sweet spot with Shadow Monk. You're a cloud-infested, teleporting, fun guy that can raise the dead and deal some extra passive poison damage on your attacks.
I play a Circle of Spores Druid with 2 levels of Monk. I think it is really really good!
I really don't think Moon Druid peters off, at 20th level, you are immortal. Earth Elemental has over 100 hit points, and very few things will take that completely out before you can take your turn and wildshape again.
It's strongest at 2nd, and then gradually falls off in power until 18th, at which point it gets a big spike in power again.
@@watcher314159 It definitely depends on group, but around 8th is where I found my sweet spot, cause the Wizard would Haste me every fight, so I could Constrict with Giant Constrictor Snake and bring down lightning bolts with Call Lightning. Granted, the combo got particularly amazing once I picked up an item that granted me Immunity to Lightning damage, that put me on a whole different plane.
Symbiotic entity can be activated while in wildshape to give your 1hp rat a bunch of temp hp. Also, beast attacks are considered melee weapon attacks so the necrotic damage would apply to your giant eagle attacks. Also the spore cloud and level 14 buffs apply to you while in wildshape, and you can activate the level 6 reaction feature while in wildshape too (none of the features are spellcasting) so it’s basically a bunch of wildshape buffs, plus additional spells. Also, dreams Druid can use its healing and teleport features while wildshaped since they aren’t spells (and they also can’t be counterspelled because of that), and circle of stars Druid can activate their starry form while they’re wildshaped to stack buffs too.
The Circle of Spores druid is conceptually my absolute favorite subclass of any subclass list; I was SO excited to see a necromantic energy being brought to the druid's table, and what better way than through mushrooms?! Sadly, my love for its flavor was not met with its mechanical advantages, as I ended up being quite limited with some of the features offered up to me. While it was one of my favorite characters, I couldn't get what I really wanted from the subclass...I'm hopeful for this to be somehow reconciled...I fully agree with you guys when you reluctantly give it a C tier rank...I didn't want to rank it so low, but I had to as well. Thanks for a great summary of the tier rankings, I couldn't have agreed more with all of your comments and thoughts on these subclasses!
100% but here’s the thing, as DM, if my Druid wants to play circle of spores, imma buff that bad-boy. It’s a fantastic flavour that even these guys briefly mentioned has heaps of potential if done a little differently.
Hoping we get the part 2 soon, as I really like the Druid sub-classes from Tasha's
Thinking you guys undersold the Spore Druid. It’s one of my favorites, not just as flavor but with mechanics to keep spellcasting viable. That makes it surprisingly strong.
Emily Axford plays a circle of spores druid on the Naddpod podcast "Not another D&D podcast" although i think early on they mention she is using an Unearthed Arcana circle of spores (i also think her hubby, DM Brian Murphy, lets her get away with some shenannigans) but its all fun
I can’t believe that there are only 5 Druid subclasses so far. And that someone actually thinks that saving spell slots isn’t great
I feel like the biggest crime of the circle of land druid is it directly competes with the whole cleric class for its niche. That is a mountain of an undertaking.
Class features which "save" spell slots are no substitution for intelligent play, which will go much further. We're also at a time when lots of game tables are saying they play 1-2 combat encounters between long rests, maybe 3 tops. It's rare for the 4-6 encounter situation to be a reality. This style of play diminishes the value of abilities which let characters "save" spell slots.
The best way to save spell slots is to play a Moon Druid
@@nilsjonsson4446 Maybe if you're being very precise about how much hp you can throw around or if youre not really front line tanking too often. But I could see a lot of spells slots being used up to heal the moon druid.
@@DungeonDudes That said, you can pretty much consider 1st level spells almost as spammable as cantrips with this ability, right? You can safely use all the slots in the first combat, then rest and have them back for the second? 🤔
I think that kinda thing could still come in pretty handy. Sure, other subclasses have to be more strategic. But having more freedom here might be better in its own way. 👍
Great job, Gang! Do this for all of the classes! Well researched! Keep up the great work!
Circle of Spores Druid, while not optimal, can be a really fun build around for a shillelagh centered build. The bonus damage works great with the Polearm Master feat.
I have something to add to the Circle of Dreams druid rating. Something that the Dudes missed about the Balm of the Summer Court.
I also missed it, but just yesterday I've been helping my wife create her first D&D character. She wanted to play a nature based healer, and I offered the Circle of Dreams.
She read the rules a couple of times, and then pointed to the Balm of the Summer Court, and asked: "Can I use this in Wild Shape?"
I read it a couple of times, and the rules say nothing about it needing anything like the V,S,M requirements of spells. It just happens, and you can heal as a bonus action. Balm of the Summer Court isn't a spell. You can heal just by willing it to happen.
This means, that a the Circle of Dreams druid can at the beginning of the battle bust out a couple spells at long range, then go into wild shape, get up in the enemy's face, and still heal on a bonus action. This pairs really will with the fact than most wild shape forms don't have anything to do as a bonus action. You can also use it on yourself, making your Wild Shape form a bit more tanky.
I think this application buffs up the Circle of Dreams to A rank. At least it does in my book.
i remember watching some guys play dnd at my Lgs, one of the guys was playing a circle of spores druid but his race was a homebrew fungus character. imagine the giant mushroom dudes from dark souls 1 in the darkroot basin
Myconids
@@MrIrrationalSmith have they been released for 5e?
All I can imagine is getting one-shot socked in the mouth so hard you get Thanos snapped
@@GrassPokeKing you know the true horror of those mushroom dudes
Shepard druid: *gets knocked out*
Animals: "and I took that personally"