"What if alt Claudia killed our Claudia and took her place as a spy?" I know you've finished the series, so it's not a spoiler that that was a good observation! Even though with two episodes to go, you still don't know how the game is played!
This episode has the best montage of the whole series, editing, music, everything was just on point. I love how the youngest watches the oldest cause the incident so that the middle-aged one knows how to do it by himself
The Pioneers (M83 Remix) is so effective during the montage at the end of this episode. This show knows how to do a montage lol, hard to pick a favorite but this is definitely up there for me
Some extra trivia: - Eva got the inspiration of taking the caduceus as Erit Lux's symbol because her dead brother had it tattoed on his body - In 2052 in Erit Lux we see one of the gigantic panels from the Godparticle, which creates the electric arcs, lying broken down on the floor. Confirming what the newsreport in S3E2 already said about how seemingly every electric-nuclear technology broke down. This is also why Jonas can't escape the aftermath of the apocalypse since the apocalypse destroyed the portable timemachine and the Godparticle in Sic Mundus through an EMP. - 38:52 old alt-Egon and alt-Hannah actually travel to 1986 instead of 1953. It's one of the things written on the bunkerwalls in Eva's world in 2052. It's also evidence of Katharina's name being fated. If alt-Hannah goes to the 80s instead of the 50s, she wouldn't meet alt-Helene to give her the name. The official website also names Origin-Katharina "Katharina" even though timetravel doesn't exist in the origin-world. It was the origin-world which influenced Adam's and Eva's world and the origin of Katharina's name in Adam's world is just a twisted perversion of the actual origin timeline. - this episode was supposed to be 1.5 hours long but they cut it down because it was too long. A ton of Adam's monologues were cut and maybe this is where the deleted scene of Agnes and Doris would be
Imagine having the imagination yet smart enough to come up with a storyline like this show! Can’t begin to think where the writers came up with the idea, where did it begin??? 😅
What's better eternal suffering or death? Do you turn the machines off with your loved one or keep them running. Adam basically wants everyone's suffering to end and the only method to do this in his mind is to destroy all that is. He tried to kill himself several times but fails due to the loop. Eva wants everyone to live no matter the price and the only method is to keep the loop going and let their suffering repeat over and over..
When you talk about how they refer to Martha's and Jonas's son as "it", that is a bit of a translation thing. Because in German (other than in English), things too have genders (not only persons), so "der Ursprung" (the origin) is male (like for example "die Zeitreise" - the time travel - would be female or "das Paradies" - (the) paradise - would me gender neutral). So, in German they call him "er / ihn" (he / him) even when referring to him as The Origin, unlike in the English subtitles, where the original male pronoun becomes gender neutral ("it"). That's why it seems harsher in English than in German. It basically just boils down to the fact that he was never given a name, which of course is bad enough.
I can believe our Claudia ordered Tronte to kill Regina. The same way she told younger Claudia that their father had to die. She had a chance to save him but had to let him go. I think Claudia is just looking at the bigger picture and unfortunately that requires sacrifices to fix. What's the point of saving Regina now to just give her a few days or weeks to live.
Agnes gave the newspaper of Claudia dying to Noah, before he killed Claudia, he likely dropped it in Adam's lair along with the other pages right before his death. Adam then gives it back to Agnes so she can pass it on to Claudia so she can give it to her younger version to hand to Noah.
Everyone says this, but Agnes did not give it to Noah, she only showed it to him and then tucked it back in her dress. We see her at the end of the episode (2x3) looking at the article, at the same time Claudia is killed. So if the Agnes in 2053 in 3x4 is Agnes *after* S2E3, she should still have the article, not Adam. Hence my confusion.
@@ChannelNamePending699 Well, she might just have given it to him inbetween when she came back to Sic Mundus, since Claudia gave it to her to win their trust.
@@svenkampen1647Maybe, but what purpose would be served by giving it to him *after* he'd killed Claudia? The information was already confirmed, Claudia was dead, no further need to win his trust. I think the most likely explanation is that she actually gave it to Adam, explaining that Claudia told her she had to give it to younger Claudia. Adam returning it to her and repeating these instructions (that she already knows), then, is just for the sake of reminding the audience, since that conversation happened twelve episodes ago.
I was still so lost by this point my first time watching. 😅 Y'all are catching on to everything much easier. I've watched reactors who were even more clueless than I was so I guess I should give myself some credit for what I *did* comprehend.
As far as I can tell, the golden orb is another bootstrapped object. It doesn't seem to have an origin in either world. Oh... I'm pretty sure you guys have finished the series by now, so I think it's safe to say that overlapping realities/superposition and "something" revealed next episode, likely explains the ending of the series.😉 And maybe, just maybe, everything, including the ending, was predetermined all along. 😉
The show really tries not to do real bootstraps that get infinite years old. But the information of how it was built is probably bootstrapped like it is with the suitcase device. The official website says that the golden sphere was created in Eva's world. On the bunkerwalls in Eva's world in 2052 we learn that alt-Tannhaus also created a device for timetravelling. We know that the suitcase timemachine most likely doesn't exist in Eva's world. The only blueprint Erit Lux made was given to Claudia and her job was it to give it to Adam's Tannhaus. If Eva really wanted to make the suitcase timemachine in her world as well she would have given Claudia (who Eva thinks is alt-Claudia) two sets of the blueprint and would have instructed her to give one of them to Claudia (for Tannhaus) and the other for alt-Claudia (for alt-Tannhaus). My takeaway is that this device alt-Tannhaus build is the golden sphere (note: singular, since the bunkerwalls has the word "device" written in singular too). It was either Erit Lux who commissioned it by alt-Tannhaus or it was Sic Mundus. My hypothesis is that Magnus and Franziska made a little detour when they were send to Eva's world and they either picked up the finished design at alt-Tannhaus or they stole a sphere from Erit Lux (Magnus and Franziska are also coming from the same direction the caves are). At this moment Magnus and Franziska have 2 spheres then. One new and one slightly older. They go to the apocalypse in Adam's world and give the new one to alt-Martha. Adam then takes away her sphere when she is captured later down the line and gives it to Magnus and Franziska who both go to the alt-world and retrieve the new sphere. They travel with 2 spheres to the apocalypse and the older one is used to save Adam who shot Martha from the apocalypse and they travel to 2053 where they build their final machine. It would explain how Adam survived the apocalypse, which we do not see in the show. Adam has one sphere until he kills alt-Martha with the machine and then travels to Eva's world to kill Eva in frustration (when Claudia doesn't interveen that is). From there it could go into Erit Lux's hands + alt-Martha who was saved by alt-Bartosz also carried one and it remains in Erit Lux. Under this theory we have a nice symmetry between the sphere Erit Lux has and Sic Mundus has: They are created by the split that decides if alt-Martha will join Sic Mundus or Erit Lux and it also decides in which organisation the sphere ends up in.
This show managed to cast three actors for each character that not only resembled each other but were also good actors and German speakers. Then why do Hollywood movies cast the same 50 actors over and over again?
What if Egon isn’t actually the father of Hannah’s child, what if she was already pregnant when she hooked up with Egon, that’s the one thread that has always bothered me, I have never been able to square that circle because from what we are led to believe, Hannah never got pregnant with Ulrich in “Alpha” but she does in “Beta” It is kind of implied that maybe Hannah miscarries Ulrich’s child in “Beta” when we see Beta Egon show up however we don’t get any concrete evidence of it and we don’t get any concrete evidence that Egon takes he back to the past to hook up with younger Beta Egon to then have a child with him and if that is meant to be the version of events, I don’t think I buy it. I know Hannah can be cold blooded but I am pretty sure having a miscarriage would have traumatic consequence mentally speaking and hooking up with Beta Egon is not going to be the same, the whole butterfly effect scenario. For me, it would make more sense that she was already pregnant with Ulrich’s child in Alpha and that married up with her being pregnant with Ulrich’s child in Beta. We don’t ever see full blown pregnant Alpha Hannah and if she had any pregnancy issues like Beta Hannah, it’s possible Alpha Hannah had the same problem as Beta Hannah, we just never see it, so it’s possible Beta Hannah didn’t have a miscarriage and she gave birth and that is the real reason Beta Egon has to “preserve” the family tree, because no Hannah’s child, no Martha and they are Egon’s descendants regardless of whether he is the father of Hannah’s child or he isn’t and maybe they know the truth in Beta. I know if I ever got to ask the writers that theory, they would probably laugh and say of course it’s Egon’s child, but I just have this niggling feeling, it just doesn’t add up for me, why bother complicating the situation by making Hannah pregnant with Ulrich in Beta, it seems like it would just be an unnecessary complication when weaving the storyline together, especially if it is just for her to have a miscarriage and it doesn’t really play any key part in any of the loops, I have tried very hard to find a valid reason why they would do that and why it would have any purpose in any loop and I just can’t find one other than the child is Ulrich’s in both Alpha and Beta. We know that the family tree in the floor is unreliable and can’t be taken as gospel because it has Tronte as Regina’s father and we know that isn’t the case, but again, I know I am probably wrong, it’s just a gut feeling that I just can’t get rid of
Nah Silja is Egon's child. The last time Hannah had slept with Ulrich before she gets to know she is pregnant in 1954 was 8 months ago. I think she would have noticed being pregnant if that were the case haha
Martha’s talk with Katarina makes me soooo emotional. Katarina really just loved her kids and her family, all she wanted was to keep them together and she deserved so much better 😭😭
This show managed to cast three actors for each character that not only resembled each other but were also good actors and German speakers. Then why do Hollywood movies cast the same 50 actors over and over again?
cant believe yall predicted the end thats crazy
Man I'm going to be so sad when this is over. Watching your reactions and discussions has been such a great time 😢
"What if alt Claudia killed our Claudia and took her place as a spy?"
I know you've finished the series, so it's not a spoiler that that was a good observation! Even though with two episodes to go, you still don't know how the game is played!
"Claudia becomes the third player"
Aw man, so good, so close!
And yes, she deserves it. She deserves it more than anyone else.
This episode has the best montage of the whole series, editing, music, everything was just on point. I love how the youngest watches the oldest cause the incident so that the middle-aged one knows how to do it by himself
The Pioneers (M83 Remix) is so effective during the montage at the end of this episode. This show knows how to do a montage lol, hard to pick a favorite but this is definitely up there for me
Some extra trivia:
- Eva got the inspiration of taking the caduceus as Erit Lux's symbol because her dead brother had it tattoed on his body
- In 2052 in Erit Lux we see one of the gigantic panels from the Godparticle, which creates the electric arcs, lying broken down on the floor. Confirming what the newsreport in S3E2 already said about how seemingly every electric-nuclear technology broke down. This is also why Jonas can't escape the aftermath of the apocalypse since the apocalypse destroyed the portable timemachine and the Godparticle in Sic Mundus through an EMP.
- 38:52 old alt-Egon and alt-Hannah actually travel to 1986 instead of 1953. It's one of the things written on the bunkerwalls in Eva's world in 2052. It's also evidence of Katharina's name being fated. If alt-Hannah goes to the 80s instead of the 50s, she wouldn't meet alt-Helene to give her the name. The official website also names Origin-Katharina "Katharina" even though timetravel doesn't exist in the origin-world. It was the origin-world which influenced Adam's and Eva's world and the origin of Katharina's name in Adam's world is just a twisted perversion of the actual origin timeline.
- this episode was supposed to be 1.5 hours long but they cut it down because it was too long. A ton of Adam's monologues were cut and maybe this is where the deleted scene of Agnes and Doris would be
Imagine having the imagination yet smart enough to come up with a storyline like this show! Can’t begin to think where the writers came up with the idea, where did it begin??? 😅
00:33 Hey that's me!!
Edit: I love that the time stamp is 33 seconds. Very fitting
What's better eternal suffering or death?
Do you turn the machines off with your loved one or keep them running.
Adam basically wants everyone's suffering to end and the only method to do this in his mind is to destroy all that is. He tried to kill himself several times but fails due to the loop.
Eva wants everyone to live no matter the price and the only method is to keep the loop going and let their suffering repeat over and over..
We finally find out about the 1986 power plant incident that the show's been teasing us with since season 1.
When you talk about how they refer to Martha's and Jonas's son as "it", that is a bit of a translation thing. Because in German (other than in English), things too have genders (not only persons), so "der Ursprung" (the origin) is male (like for example "die Zeitreise" - the time travel - would be female or "das Paradies" - (the) paradise - would me gender neutral). So, in German they call him "er / ihn" (he / him) even when referring to him as The Origin, unlike in the English subtitles, where the original male pronoun becomes gender neutral ("it"). That's why it seems harsher in English than in German. It basically just boils down to the fact that he was never given a name, which of course is bad enough.
51:20 it‘s bootstrap paradoxes all the way down.
There timeline is like a Möbius loop with a knotted centerline.
I can believe our Claudia ordered Tronte to kill Regina. The same way she told younger Claudia that their father had to die. She had a chance to save him but had to let him go. I think Claudia is just looking at the bigger picture and unfortunately that requires sacrifices to fix. What's the point of saving Regina now to just give her a few days or weeks to live.
Agnes gave the newspaper of Claudia dying to Noah, before he killed Claudia, he likely dropped it in Adam's lair along with the other pages right before his death. Adam then gives it back to Agnes so she can pass it on to Claudia so she can give it to her younger version to hand to Noah.
Everyone says this, but Agnes did not give it to Noah, she only showed it to him and then tucked it back in her dress. We see her at the end of the episode (2x3) looking at the article, at the same time Claudia is killed. So if the Agnes in 2053 in 3x4 is Agnes *after* S2E3, she should still have the article, not Adam. Hence my confusion.
@@ChannelNamePending699 Well, she might just have given it to him inbetween when she came back to Sic Mundus, since Claudia gave it to her to win their trust.
@@svenkampen1647Maybe, but what purpose would be served by giving it to him *after* he'd killed Claudia? The information was already confirmed, Claudia was dead, no further need to win his trust.
I think the most likely explanation is that she actually gave it to Adam, explaining that Claudia told her she had to give it to younger Claudia. Adam returning it to her and repeating these instructions (that she already knows), then, is just for the sake of reminding the audience, since that conversation happened twelve episodes ago.
I was still so lost by this point my first time watching. 😅
Y'all are catching on to everything much easier.
I've watched reactors who were even more clueless than I was so I guess I should give myself some credit for what I *did* comprehend.
i love your reactions, upload the nexts eps pls 😭😭
As far as I can tell, the golden orb is another bootstrapped object. It doesn't seem to have an origin in either world.
Oh... I'm pretty sure you guys have finished the series by now, so I think it's safe to say that overlapping realities/superposition and "something" revealed next episode, likely explains the ending of the series.😉
And maybe, just maybe, everything, including the ending, was predetermined all along. 😉
Perfect match, Einstein-Rosen bridge, etc
The show really tries not to do real bootstraps that get infinite years old. But the information of how it was built is probably bootstrapped like it is with the suitcase device.
The official website says that the golden sphere was created in Eva's world.
On the bunkerwalls in Eva's world in 2052 we learn that alt-Tannhaus also created a device for timetravelling.
We know that the suitcase timemachine most likely doesn't exist in Eva's world. The only blueprint Erit Lux made was given to Claudia and her job was it to give it to Adam's Tannhaus. If Eva really wanted to make the suitcase timemachine in her world as well she would have given Claudia (who Eva thinks is alt-Claudia) two sets of the blueprint and would have instructed her to give one of them to Claudia (for Tannhaus) and the other for alt-Claudia (for alt-Tannhaus).
My takeaway is that this device alt-Tannhaus build is the golden sphere (note: singular, since the bunkerwalls has the word "device" written in singular too).
It was either Erit Lux who commissioned it by alt-Tannhaus or it was Sic Mundus.
My hypothesis is that Magnus and Franziska made a little detour when they were send to Eva's world and they either picked up the finished design at alt-Tannhaus or they stole a sphere from Erit Lux (Magnus and Franziska are also coming from the same direction the caves are).
At this moment Magnus and Franziska have 2 spheres then. One new and one slightly older.
They go to the apocalypse in Adam's world and give the new one to alt-Martha. Adam then takes away her sphere when she is captured later down the line and gives it to Magnus and Franziska who both go to the alt-world and retrieve the new sphere. They travel with 2 spheres to the apocalypse and the older one is used to save Adam who shot Martha from the apocalypse and they travel to 2053 where they build their final machine. It would explain how Adam survived the apocalypse, which we do not see in the show.
Adam has one sphere until he kills alt-Martha with the machine and then travels to Eva's world to kill Eva in frustration (when Claudia doesn't interveen that is).
From there it could go into Erit Lux's hands + alt-Martha who was saved by alt-Bartosz also carried one and it remains in Erit Lux.
Under this theory we have a nice symmetry between the sphere Erit Lux has and Sic Mundus has: They are created by the split that decides if alt-Martha will join Sic Mundus or Erit Lux and it also decides in which organisation the sphere ends up in.
This show managed to cast three actors for each character that not only resembled each other but were also good actors and German speakers. Then why do Hollywood movies cast the same 50 actors over and over again?
It's not Martha's job to repress her emotions for her mother. Mothers should protect their children, not the other way around.
Watch westworld or silo series after you finish Dark. They are also mystery series
Westworld: Greatest first season ever. Then three seasons of "why am I still watching this?"
@@colonelsanders2038 Season 2 was okay, too
What if Egon isn’t actually the father of Hannah’s child, what if she was already pregnant when she hooked up with Egon, that’s the one thread that has always bothered me, I have never been able to square that circle because from what we are led to believe, Hannah never got pregnant with Ulrich in “Alpha” but she does in “Beta”
It is kind of implied that maybe Hannah miscarries Ulrich’s child in “Beta” when we see Beta Egon show up however we don’t get any concrete evidence of it and we don’t get any concrete evidence that Egon takes he back to the past to hook up with younger Beta Egon to then have a child with him and if that is meant to be the version of events, I don’t think I buy it.
I know Hannah can be cold blooded but I am pretty sure having a miscarriage would have traumatic consequence mentally speaking and hooking up with Beta Egon is not going to be the same, the whole butterfly effect scenario.
For me, it would make more sense that she was already pregnant with Ulrich’s child in Alpha and that married up with her being pregnant with Ulrich’s child in Beta.
We don’t ever see full blown pregnant Alpha Hannah and if she had any pregnancy issues like Beta Hannah, it’s possible Alpha Hannah had the same problem as Beta Hannah, we just never see it, so it’s possible Beta Hannah didn’t have a miscarriage and she gave birth and that is the real reason Beta Egon has to “preserve” the family tree, because no Hannah’s child, no Martha and they are Egon’s descendants regardless of whether he is the father of Hannah’s child or he isn’t and maybe they know the truth in Beta.
I know if I ever got to ask the writers that theory, they would probably laugh and say of course it’s Egon’s child, but I just have this niggling feeling, it just doesn’t add up for me, why bother complicating the situation by making Hannah pregnant with Ulrich in Beta, it seems like it would just be an unnecessary complication when weaving the storyline together, especially if it is just for her to have a miscarriage and it doesn’t really play any key part in any of the loops, I have tried very hard to find a valid reason why they would do that and why it would have any purpose in any loop and I just can’t find one other than the child is Ulrich’s in both Alpha and Beta.
We know that the family tree in the floor is unreliable and can’t be taken as gospel because it has Tronte as Regina’s father and we know that isn’t the case, but again, I know I am probably wrong, it’s just a gut feeling that I just can’t get rid of
Nah Silja is Egon's child. The last time Hannah had slept with Ulrich before she gets to know she is pregnant in 1954 was 8 months ago. I think she would have noticed being pregnant if that were the case haha
Martha’s talk with Katarina makes me soooo emotional. Katarina really just loved her kids and her family, all she wanted was to keep them together and she deserved so much better 😭😭
This show managed to cast three actors for each character that not only resembled each other but were also good actors and German speakers. Then why do Hollywood movies cast the same 50 actors over and over again?